The Christian and Catholike veritie; or, The reasons and manner of the conversion of Francis de Neville;: formerly a Capuchin, preacher, the Popes missionary, and superiour in sundry covents of the same order. A treatise very usefull for all Christians, and especially for such as are popishly affected, or not fully setled in their beliefe; and for the further confirmation of the faithfull. Wherein many secrets of the Romish clergy, heretofore unrevealed, are discovered. Dedicated by the author to the high court of Parliament now assembled, 1642. See the contents at the next page.

CHAP. XVII.

Of the Invocation of Saints.

AFter that I was sufficiently informed, and fully satisfied, by those reasons and considerations I have already deduced, and others like to them, which to avoid prolixity I omitted, that nei∣ther the Pope nor the Church ought to be my Judge in matter of faith, but the holy Scripture onely, which God hath given us to that end; then did I begin to examine all points of faith by the Scripture alone, and in every thing that was propounded to me by the Romish Church I had recourse to the Word of God, and holy writings, to see if it was conformable to them; and if any such thing were preached by Christ and his Apostles, who have questionlesse divulged the pure and most perfect faith, that being the thing every Christian ought to practise in matter of faith.

And perceiving the point of the Invocation of Saints to be at this present in great estimation in the Romish Church, and that the c••nfession and profession of faith ordered by the Bull of Pope Pius the fourth, according to the Councell of Trent, saith ex∣presly, we must honour and invoke the Saints: I have searched and examined this point by the holy Scriptures.

I confesse truly that as my nature moveth me enough (praised be God) to give honour to those to whom it appertaineth, especi∣cially in holy things, so have I ever had an inclination to render to the Saints, as much honour and respect, as I thought was due to them; and if I should have found any ground in the holy Scrip∣ture for the Invocation of Saints, I would certainly have embra∣ced it with a hearty affection; but knowing that God is better pleased with obedience than will-sacrifice, so I did beleeve the Saints demanded nothing more of us than what was due to them, and that we are so far from doing them pleasure in giving them more honour than justly appertains to them, that it were rather to offend God, and them in God, who loving him above all things have no other glory nor pleasure than his glory and will.

Now for passages out of the holy Scriptures to prove this Ar∣ticle, the Romanists produce none worthy of consideration; and that which ever I did read of greatest importance for them,* 1.1 is the passage in 2 Pet. 1.15. (Moreover I will endeavour that you may be able after my decease to have those things alwayes in remembrance.) Thereby (say they) Peter promiseth the faithfull that he will pray for them after his death.

This passage is falsified, for it is according to the Greek, I will endeavour that you may be able after my decease to have those things still in remembrance: that is,* 1.2 as Aquinas himself (who is esteemed M^r. of the Schoole) explaineth; because (saith he) I must shortly be dissolved; therefore so long as I live, I will take pains to adver∣tise you not onely once, but often, that is, instantly and diligent∣ly, that you may remember those things I told you after my death. Oecumenius also acknowledgeth this explanation to be the best, and the other to be hyperbolicall, that is, troubling and over∣turning the construction.

And although we should confesse, that by this passage is proved that S^t. Peter and the other Saints pray in Paradise for the faith∣full, it will not thence follow that they hear us, and that we must call upon them, nor can they produce any proofe out of Scrip∣ture.

The Jesuite Cotton also in his first book of his Institution in the Chapter of the Invocation of Saints, saith,* 1.3 that for command∣ment to pray and call upon the Saints, the Church hath never taught any: neverthelesse the confession of faith of the Councell of Trent (composed and formed to be received of Christians by com∣mand

of the same Councell,* 1.4 and especially by Pope Pius the 4^th.) hath those words, (I beleeve the Saints must be honoured and invo∣cated, who reign together with Christ, and that they offer up prayers to God for us.) Thence it would appeare that this good Father did not well know his belief; for behold, his Church beleeveth that Saints must be honoured and invocated; if it be not peradventure that he would put this glosse upon the words of the Councell, to wit, that the obligation is onely by way of counsell, and not a commandment; but they might say as much of all heresie, and the word (I beleeve) sheweth they make an Article of faith of it, which obligeth them all.

But let us grant, if you will, that all the Saints who are with God in glory offer continuall prayers to him for the increase and prosperitie of the whole Church and all the faithful, (as some Do∣ctors beleeve:) and perhaps might be granted, although we have no knowledge thereof from the holy Scripture, (and so it cannot be a point of faith;) it will not therefore follow that they hear all our prayers, and know our necessities in particular, or that we ought to invoke them; and the fashion in which the Romish Church explaineth this point, sheweth sufficiently its nullity.

For they say the Saints do not hear our prayers themselves, but beholding and contemplating the divine Essence, they see them there as in a glasse, and so have knowledge of them; and although (say they) they see whole God, yet they do not see him wholly, nor do they see all which is comprehended in that divine Essence, for so should they have an infinite knowledge; but they see onely that which God will manifest and reveal unto them.

Now to beleeve God manifested unto them all the prayers that are directed unto them, is a groundlesse conjecture, there being no Word of God to inform us thereof, nor any returned from those places to bring us news. And although this might be, there being nothing impossible to God, neverthelesse all confesse and agree, that every thing which is possible to God cometh not therefore to passe, nor ought we beleeve it to be done, if the Word of God de∣clareth it not to us as matter of faith; besides there are so great ab∣surdities in the explication of this doctrine, that I marvell how it can enter into the spirit of a reasonable man.

For they confesse that our prayers go first to God, and then from God to the Saints, and after they return from the Saints to God, which is as one praying to S^t. Nicholas (for example) if

God say to him, Nicholas know that such a man in such a place upon the earth asketh thee such things, whereof I advertise thee, that thou may pray to me, and then I will advise if I shall heare thee, that is, to make God Mediatour towards the Saints, before the Saints be Mediatours towards God.

Furthermore, the Saints have not an infinite knowledge and vertue, and as they know not all things, so doe they not know them all at one time, and are not as God, who provideth for the generall government of the world, and all particular things there∣in, without any trouble or disturbance; for the infinitenesse of his divine essence giveth him that power; but the Saints are not so; for although their power be great, yet it hath its owne bounds; nor I cannot conceive how a Saint at the same instant can heare all the prayers made to him here on earth, nor how he can provide for all, as they make the simpler beleeve.

For let us suppose (if yee will) that it is Saterday, which day the Romanists dedicate especially to the blessed Virgin, Mother of God; or one of her great holy dayes among them; as of her Na∣tivitie, her Assumption, or any other, from the dawning of the day to mid-day, there are a million of millions of Masses said every moment in those places where Popish Religion is planted, and a numberlesse number of prayers at one and the same instant are di∣rected to the blessed Virgin, every particular person imagining shee heareth them perfectly, and indeavouring to make his wants knowne to her, to the end he may be relieved; or suppose shee knoweth them already, and that they onely labour to pray to her and aske her helpe and reliefe; they will be forced to confesse that the prayers and necessities of every particular person goe first to God, who alone knoweth the hearts, and then from God to the Virgin, and from her againe to God; last of all they returne from God to the Virgin, that shee may give order and make them feele their prayers are granted, if God think it expedient. Now if there be two thousand persons in a Church that pray to the Virgin at one time, it must be done by every one of them in an instant; and if there be ten thousand in a Citie which pray at one time, that must be done by every one of them so; and if that be done pro∣portionably through all the Cities of a Kingdome, even of many Kingdomes, where a numberlesse number of people pray to the blessed Virgin at the same instant, shee must have at one time an in∣finite multitude of businesses to heare, and necessities to provide

for, and at the same instant God informeth her of an infinite num∣ber of prayers directed to her for an infinite number of wants, shee returning an infinite number at the same time to God; and in the meane time, while shee returneth them to God, and prayeth to him, according to the information it pleased him to give her, God at the same instant advertiseth her of an infinite multitude of other prayers; which indeed may well be done by God at an in∣stant, but not by the Virgin Mary, who being onely a finite crea∣ture, is not able to thinke and advise upon so many affaires toge∣ther at one time no more than we; but needeth some time and suc∣cession to know & provide for all, though we confesse, that a sepa∣rated soule may know sooner than united to the body, and that shee know by a single apprehension and not by discourse; but be∣ing finite, her power of knowing is finite, and shee cannot know all together, nor thinke upon all at once, being ever in state of glory.

And let us but grant the least time to every businesse, we would quickly be far from our intent; for there being some dayes milli∣ons of millions of affaires and prayers directed to her through the world, shee cannot imploy the smallest time imaginable in every businesse, but shee must be more than a yeare to thinke and looke upon all the affaires which are directed to her in one day, nay in one houre, nay in a quarter of an houre. And because it falleth out often in a yeare, we must of necessitie fall into an inexplicable labyrinth to every tongue, inconceivable to every understanding, and impossible to every creature, how perfect soever shee is, there being nothing but that which is infinite capable of such things, the which ought not to be acknowledged in any Saint whatsoe∣ver.

But to what purpose (I pray you) shall we addresse our selves to Saints? seeing we have our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the true Mediatour, the Soveraigne and onely Advocate betwixt us and his Father, who commandeth us to come and addresse our selves unto him, who giveth us the confidence, and assureth us that he will comfort us;* 1.5 Come unto me (saith he) all yee that are weary and hea∣vie laden, and I will ease you; He saith not goe to Moses, or to Abra∣ham, or have you recourse to Jacob, but come to me all both poore and rich, men and women, whosoever yee be, how great sinners soever; all yee that are weary with any griefe or affliction, for any disease or any affaires whatsoever, and I will comfort you; and

be assured yee shall finde consolation. Is there any Saint in the world, to whom we have so great reason to addresse our selves, as to Jesus Christ our God? who ever hath commanded and pro∣voked us to come to him? who hath called and charged us? who hath ever said come to me? who hath given us so great confidence? and to whom ought we to beleeve, and to trust so much? is there any Saint so able to assist us? and who can comfort us so much in all our afflictions, and heale us so well of our diseases? or so quick∣ly and powerfully helpe us in all our crosses as he? Is there any Saint that hath assured us so much of his good will towards us? Is there any Saint in whom and on whom we can trust and repose our selves so freely? To what purpose then should we goe and ad∣dresse our selves rather to the Saints, than to him who is our God and omnipotent Father, and who infinitely desireth our well∣fare.

It is easie by that which I have said, and which I am to say, to answer the objection Papists commonly have and imagine to be strong, drawne from the comparison of Princes and Mediatours, which men use to goe to them, and to doe their businesse the bet∣ter; for it is not so in God; we goe not directly to Princes either because they know us not, or because we are not sure of their af∣fection towards us, or if they be minded to doe us good; but this hath no place in God; for we are certaine he loveth us, and desi∣reth and willeth our good; it is moreover his will, and he com∣mandeth us to come to him; so we have no need to interpose o∣thers; and having no commandement to doe it, nor example in holy Scripture, nor any reason in the world, we cannot doe it without offence.

And we need not doubt but the Apostles had a sufficient incli∣nation to honour the Saints which were before them; yet we see not in any place of Scripture, that ever any of the Apostles did in∣voke any of the Saints, either before or after the death of our Sa∣viour; or that he ever recommended that doctrine: if this had been an Article of faith, and of so great importance, doe yee not thinke they would have left something of it in some one of their Epistles? or S^t Luke in the Acts? which no where appearing, it is a manifest signe Christ Jesus did never teach it, and that it was ne∣ver his will we should practice it.

Now if our Saviour hath not recommended it, nor the Apostles taught it, and if further it appeare they never practised ••o, upon

what reason and ground ought we to doe it? Shall we thinke our selves wiser than Christ and his Apostles? and doth it not appeare to be a humane invention and addition to the Word of God? which is cursed from his mouth, and threatned with an Anathema by the Apostle S^t Paul.

Besides, if we interpose Christ, who is our true and soveraigne Mediatour, is there any that can deny that our prayers are not as well and better made, as if we did interpose all the Saints: to what purpose is it then to interpose S^t Pachomius, S^t. Paphnutius, S^t Anthony, S^te Theresias, S^t John Gualbert, and the like, rather than Christ Jesus, and leave him to goe to Saints, which are nothing in comparison of him.

And there is no man who would not confesse, but it is better to pray to God and to Jesus Christ, than to the Saints, and addresse our selves to him rather than to them; because wee have a com∣mandement for the one and not for the other. Seeing then it is better to addresse our selves to God than to the Saints, we having no commandement nor counsell in the holy Scripture, nor any example in the lives of the Apostles, who were better Christians than wee, and who had a greater inclination and affection than wee to honour the Saints; with what reason should wee doe it? We ought therefore to reject this as a humane invention, and a su∣perstition invented by the Romish Church, and which is threatned with Anathema.

Notes

• * 1.1

  2 Pet. 1•• 15.
• * 1.2

  Theod. Aquin. in Comm. super E∣pist.
• * 1.3

  Cotton Instit. li. 1. cap. d•• Invoc. Sanct,
• * 1.4

  Concil. Triden. Sessio 25. de Reform. cap. 20.
• * 1.5

  Mat. 11.28.