Independencie no schisme. Or, An answer to a scandalous book, entituled, The schismatick sifted: written by Mr. John Vicars.: Which may serve also for a reply to Master Edwards his Gangræna. Wherein is discovered the vanity of those unjust slanders cast upon the dissenting brethren, whom they call Independents. With some hints added about gospel-government. / By M.N. med. pr.

Independencie no Schisme.

Master VICARS.

THat ill weeds grow apace in Gods garden the Church, through the impunity, and intolerable Toleration of Sectaries & Schis∣maticks. 2. That since they cry out for liberty of conscience, it is more lawfull for him to use liberty of speech, with christian moderation. 3. That Independencie is a most dangerous schisme, and that the door of Independents hangs upon two hinges, Hope of impunity, and a continued good opinion even among the Presby∣terian party. 4. That they love to live Salamander like, in the fire of hot disputes.

Answer.

[ 1] To the first, [That ill weeds grow apace in Gods garden, by tole∣ration, &c.] Let the Church (the garden of God) be once furnished with true genuine plants, I mean such only as our heavenly Father hath planted by divine institution: Let such a Government be set up, as is only according to the will and appointment of Jesus Christ, and there can be no fear of prejudice by a toleration of divers Opinions: If the work be of God, if a Church way be founded upon the impreg∣nable rock Christ, nothing can overthrow it, not the gates of hell can prevaile against it. There was no noise made in building Solomons temple, and why should we make tumults and persecutions in build∣ing up the temple of Christ, whose temple we are? Let men be left to the power of the Word, and if they be not convinced by its mighty working, if they be given over to strong delusions, not all the prin∣cipalities and policies under heaven can reduce them: the Gospel is the gospel of peace, and we have no warrant thence to deal otherwise with men, then in a way of Peace, and Gospel power.

Secondly, Mr. Vicars, we do allow there are Sectaries, Schismaticks, and Hereticks in the Church of God, for such the Apostle sayes there

will be among us, and I believe now are; and whether it be not bet∣ter to leave their conversion to the power of the Word, than to cudgel and whip them to it, I leave those who know any thing of gospel proceedings, to judge: But in the mean time will you call all that are not of your own opinion, such, even those of the most mo∣derate Dissenters? must they be markt with a black coal, by wise Mr. Vicars, for sectaries and schismaticks, and their names thus bespattered in Print, which (for ought he knowes) may be written fair in the Book of life?

Thirdly, I observe there is a great noise made of Schisme here a∣mong us: Thus the Papists charged the Protestants with schisme upon Luthers Reformation, and a long time after, till the slander became as thredbare, as the proofs of it were weak. Just so now deal the Presby∣terians with their brethren, whom they nickname Independents: and whosoever traces Ecclesiastical history, shall find it hath ever been Satans policie, upon any irradiations of Divine light, immediately to brand it for schisme; which is the main reason why Reformation hath been so often near the birth, and yet not strength to bring it forth. I am perswaded, though we should hear a voice from heaven as Iohn did, saying, Come out of her my people, yet the Devil would beg leave to be a lying spirit in the mouths of some, to brand them for schismaticks.

[ 2] To the second, [That since they cry out for liberty of conscience, it is more lawfull for him to use liberty of speech, with christian mo∣deration.] Then let your moderation be known to all men, leave off your nick-names and by words of your brethren: Truth gains nothing by ill language; I wish all of your mind would consider it, and not let this liberty of tongue in them become a stumbling block to any, or grieve the hearts of their Brethren: Ye which look for Peace and Truth, must first use Moderation: were there but any Christian mo∣deration, there would be neither cry, nor groan for Liberty.

[ 3] To the third, [that Independencie is a most dangerous schisme, and hangs upon two hinges, hope of impunity, and the good opinion which some Presbyterians have of them of that way.] I would fain have some of these Furioso's tell us wherein Independencie (as they call it) deserves the name of schisme: If Luthers departing from Popery was no schisme; if the first Reformation in England was no sohisme; if the Presbyterians late departing from the Prelacie was no schisme, but were all degrees of Reformation in their times: how

comes it then that this more spirituall Church-way of Independents which aims at a yet more perfect reformation, should beare an impu∣tation of schisme, more than the other? At present, Satan may en∣deavour to blast it with the name of schisme, as he did former Refor∣mations which succeeding years may acknowledge for the right way.

And truly, it hath pleased God to stir up mens hearts wonderfully at present, to search the Scriptures themselves, to take upon them to question, reason cases, and try spirits, and not to pin their soules and understandings upon Presbyters sleeves now, as they were wont to do upon the Prelates: And if this course were a little more usuall among Christians, all well-meaning Presbyterians would soon have a good opinion of that way; and then what Hinges soever Independents hang on, 'tis probable others may be quite off the Hooks.

[ 4] To the fourth, [That they love to live, Salamander-like, in the fire of hot disputes.] Better so, than (Salamander-like) in the fire of persecution. As long as there is Scripture-reason, truth will never want a champion: I do not mean in vain logical or philosophical reasoning, which is meer foolishnes in reference to the things of God, though yet in that way we dare hold up an Argumentative buckler against the most Mercurial Sophisters of this age.

Mr. VICARS.

That Independents preach sound doctrine, yet intermixe the un∣sound leven of false opinions, witnesse their pleas for a toleration of all opinions, and liberty of conscience.

Answer.

If to teach, that variety of Opinions ought not to break the Vnity of the spirit, be unsound leven; why then doth the Apostle presse this duty, notwithstanding outward differences? But as for a tolera∣tion of all opinions, I suppose no discreet man will charge this upon their Brethren: for we yield not to errors in Gospel-principles, only we can see no reason why mens consciences should be burdened with outward ordinances, or that they should be bound to this or that opinion in carnal formalities, which they cannot be perswaded of, and perhaps can alledge evidence from the Word for the contrary, as the case is with those they call Anabaptists, Independents, Seckers, &c.

Mr. VICARS.

1.

That Scripture discipline is the hedge, wall, or fence of Gods precious garden or vineyard. 2. That Mr. Edwards in his Gangrana hath set forth many damnable doctrines and erronious opinions of

Independents. 3. That Independents, and the rest of the Sectaries, are like Sampsons Foxes, tyed together by the tailes. 4. That they pretend holines of life, as the Scribes and Pharisees, and afterward the hereticks did of old.

Answer.

[ 1] To the first, [that Scripture-discipline is the hedge &c.] If the gar∣den of the Church be so precious in Gods eyes▪ then 'tis sit the fence and hedge should be according to his own appointment, no gardiners or guardians placed therein, but of his own choosing: will he not be angry, if we take upon us to thrust in whom we please, to order the people which are Gods husbandry, after our own humour, and put in such husbandmen of our own, that if God send a servant or two of his, they will perhaps deal with them, like those in the 20. of Luke, beat them, wound, and cast them out? Certainly, this will not be pleasing to the Lord of the vineyard.

[ 2] To the second, [that Mr. Edwards hath set forth in his Gangraena many damnable tenets of Independents.] Mr. Edwards indeed has been raking in the kennel, but he hath fouled himself most: Mr. Edwards is a very credulous man, and hopes every man else will be so too, and (I know) would have the world think all that he reckons up belongs to Independents: Is this your way of conquest, to accuse the Brethren? this is Satans practice▪ I suppose Mr. Edwards looks to rise as high in renown, as the old Heresiographers Augustine and Epiphanius: But did they, after they had cast up the heresies of old asperse them upon any one party, as Mr. Edwards endeavours upon the dissenting Brethren, on purpose to render them odious to the people? This is a weak shift to support the Government he layes claim to.

[ 3] To the third, [that Independents and the other sectaries are like Sampsons foxes, tyed together by the tails.] Indeed this is the de∣signe, to present Independents, and the rabble of lewd and unwar∣rantable Opinions, all under one: whether they be tyed by the tailes it matters not much, their heads are distant enough, and the world sees it, till Mr. Vicars prove the contrary, all whose books have neither head nor taile, neither premises nor conclusion, but upon his own bare word and authority.

[ 4] To the fourth, [that they pretend holinesse of life, as the Scribes and Pharisees, and Hereticks of old.] Do all so, or some few? tell us next time how many, and their names, lest the whole suffer for some

few. Do you, and Mr. Edwards resolve to take all on trust? Are you able to judgd of the inward man? How does this agree with the new commandement which Christ Jesus received of the Father, and left as his last legacie to his Children, that they should love one another: By this (sayes John) we know that we are of the Truth; Not by slandering the Brethren. Woe to them by wh••m scandals come. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Mr. VICARS.

1.

That whosoever loves to laugh at a sermon, let him go heare Mr. Peters preach. 2. That Mr. Iohn Goodwin wrote a late unfavory treatise, called Cretensis. 3. That the Apologeticall Narration was attested by the Authors, only to paint out their own piety, but that it betrayes double dealing, and that their exile or banishment out of England was but pretended. 4. That the Apologists confessed the Parochial congregations, true churches of Christ; but now that Independents forsake them. 5. That the Apologists promised, nor to preach or print any thing in vindication of themselves, or their opinions. 6. That Mr. Philip Nye is a notable Independent Polititian, and nimble Agent for the schismatical Church way. That Mr. Nye got the writing out of Mr. Calamies hands, wherein it was agreed by the Presbyterian and Independent Ministers, and subscribed, that neither side should preach, print, dispute, or otherwise act against each others way, till both sides in a full meeting did declare the contrary.

Answer.

[ 1] To the first, [That whosoever loves to laugh at a sermon, let him go hear Mr. Peters.] take heed you do not blow a trumpet to draw company after him to that end, in expectation of sport, rather than doctrine, wherein Mr. Peters is able to appear serious and sound, as he lately approved himself in that his excellently penned Thanks∣giving Sermon upon the reducing of the West: And who knows not that we owe much to his sermons, for encouraging the Souldiery in that admired and auspicious Enterprise? Your idle Pamphlets (sir) are things to laugh at, not his Sermons.

[ 2] To the second, [that Mr. Iohn Goodwin wrote an unsavoury treatise called Cretensis.] I say, Cretensis was a fit title in answer to such an unsavoury treatise as Gangraena, which may one day prove a fretting Cancer within the breast of the Author. The Cretians were alwayes lyars, as he that takes all by hear-say from the world must needs be,

since he who is Prince of the world, is also the Father of lies.

[ 3] To the third, [that the Apologetical Narration was attested by the Authors only to paint out their own piety, but that it betrayes double dealing, and that their banishment was but pretended.] The end of that Apologie was only to quit themselves of many fictions, falshoods and scandals secretly dispersed against them, wherein no∣thing was mentioned, but in order to a just and necessary Vindication: therefore let none take with the left hand, what they offered with the right. And pray tell us how their Banishment becomes more pre∣tended, than the rest of Gods people which wandred out of the King∣dome for their Conscience sake, to unknown habitations? while you and others warmed you selves with as much content under the sun∣shine of Antichristian Prelacie, as now under the Presbyterie: the templer of such Professors varies according to the constitution of the State where they live; they had rather shift Religion a hundred times, then their Climate once.

[ 4] To the fourth, [that the Apologists confessed Parochial congrega∣tions to be true Churches.] I answer in Mr. Saltmarsh his words upon the same objection: You are not to prove what others confesse, or hold you to be, but what you are indeed, according to truth. Nor shall I con∣tend with those that hold you so, but with you that hold your selves so: as the Spirit to the Laodiceans, Thou sayest thou art full, &c. but behold thou art poor, &c.

[ 5] To the fifth, [that the Apologists promised not to preach or print any thing, &c.] But did they promise to sit still, and see a Govern∣ment set up which they cannot allow of, and hear Persecution preach∣ed and endeavoured against all which approve not of that way? Doth not such a course force them to it, unlesse they will betray themselves and the truth of God? For Zions sake, we cannot hold our peace.

[ 6] To the sixth, [that Mr. Philip Nye is a notable Independent-polititian, an Agent for the schismatical Church-way, and got away the writing from Mr. Calamy.] I say, Mr. Nye is better known by his sound doctrine, and integrity of conversation, than to be blasted by the pen of any: Not all your Ink can stain his Robes of innocence. This was the High-Priests strain concerning our Saviour, We found this fellow perverting the people: And shall the servant expect better* 1.1 than his master? No, they said so too of Paul; We found this man a pestilent fellow, a mover of sedition, &c. Act. 24. 5.

Touching the VVriting of agreement, wherefore was it made? was

it because you doubted the strength of that Building intended by you, when another Platform should be offered? you were sure, ye thought, of having the countenance of authority to your work, only it seems you were afraid it might be retarded upon more perfect discoveries by your Brethren, and therefore thought all would be sure, if their mouths were sealed up, and their hands manacled by a circumventing agreement. At that time when this agreement was made, it might be requisite, in regard of the mutuall interest of both parties against the common enemy, and the necessity of laying aside differences in Opi∣nion for a time: But I hope Mr. Vicars will not say it was intended for a snare to the Brethren, that now when the War is drawn to a period, when a Government is erecting, pretending an absolute conformity to the Word, which they cannot be perswaded of, and minaces and per∣secution denounced both in presse and pulpit against them, as here∣ticks and schismaticks, if they submit not thereto: that now (I say) they should betray themselves and the truth by silence. If this were the end of that agreement (as it seems to be) the obligation is un∣lawfull and voyd, as being contrary to the intent of the Brethren, and further manifestation of the truth of God.

Mr. VICARS.

1.

That Independents did not so cry up the Parliaments power in matters of Religion heretofore, as now. 2. That a Book called the Peace-maker, sayes, the Assembly of Divines have nothing to do therein, but so far only as the Parliament pleases to use, or refuse them. 3. That Mr. Iohn Goodwin hath practised for his own factious ends these many years; and that Mr. Walwyn who whispered in Mr. Edwards his eare, is a pharasaical whisperer. 4. That the author of the last warning to London, is an Independent. 5. That Mr. Salt∣marsh his Smoke in the Temple is foggy and choaking, and that Mr. Ley of the Assembly hath shewn him his failings: that his Groans for Liberty, are full of misapplied paralels, and unsavoury compa∣risons: that his treatise of Free-grace is subtile and deceitfull, and very much dangerous drink of errors to be found therein, as Mr. Ga∣taker sayes. That Mr. Saltmarsh his exceptions at Mr. Edwards are injurious, because he once speak well of Mr. Edwards when he heard him preach.

Answer.

[ 1] To the first, [that Independents did not cry up the Parliaments power in matters of Religion heretofore, as now.] I say, shew us an

exact platform according to the will of Christ, and then we shall soon see who are to be impowered therein: in the mean time be not angry if we allow the Parliament chief power in the Government now claim∣ed, which is meerly Prudential in the main parts of it, and so undeni∣ably of Humane cognisance.

[ 2] Touching the second, [that a Book called the Peace-maker, sayes, the Assembly have nothing to do therein, but so far only as the Par∣liament please.] I pray read the Ordinance which enabled them to sit, and a clause in the late Declaration of the Commons, which sayes they were called only to Advise of such things, &c.

[ 3] To the third [concerning Mr. Iohn Goodwin and Mr Walwyn] It is not enough to call men Factious and Pharisa••cal, without evident demonstrations; Let every mans work be proved, lest while you en∣deavour to picture out Independency, you draw a model of your own impudence and impiety.

[ 4] To the fourth, [that the Author of the last warning to London, is an Independent.] I observe, if there be any thing unsavoury abroad, it is presently thrown in the faces (forsooth) of Independents, else (think they) the people will have too good an opinion of them, and we shall lose our reputation. Oh, this self-interest is the very fountain of all mischief, when it stands in competition with mens consciences in mat∣ter of Religion and Reformation.

[ 5] To the fifth, [first, that Mr. Saltmarsh his Smoke, &c. is foggy and choaking, wherein Mr. Ley hath shewn his failings] Indeed Mr. Ley hath striven to render it choaking, by his confused and tumultuary Animadversions, and to raise a fog in the Readers understanding, that they might not discern those divine breathings of the Spirit, and beams of the Sun of righteousnesse: And all moderate men must needs say Mr. Ley hath shewn no failings but his own: their Books are a∣broad, read, and pray for understanding; so may ye who were once darknesse, be light in the Lord.

Secondly, [that his Groans for Liberty are full of misapplied para∣lels, and unsavoury comparisons.] Why then hath not this been made evident all this while? or why do not you do it now? I suppose those Groans come so near, strike so deep, that your consciences can∣not dissemble, but that they were once your own. Remember your old condition, do as you would have been done to, have the same af∣fections, the same meltings you had then, and have compassion to∣wards your brethren: Put on, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of Mercy.

Thirdly, [that his Treatise of Free-grace is subtile, erronious, and deceitfull, as Mr. Gataker sayes.] Too subtile indeed are his treatises to old men, or those which have the old man in them, or have been infected with the old leven of outward dispensations and self con∣ceit. Mr. Saltmarsh spins too fine threads in Divinity, and is some∣what too sublime and spirituall for those which take all in grosse, and have not yet attained the more excellent way wherein my soul speaks by experience, that of all writings yet extant in print, none layes down the precious doctrine of Free grace with such power, plain∣nesse, evidence, and demonstration of the Spirit, as that small trea∣tise written by Mr. Saltmarsh. Happy is he can make a right use of it.

Fourthly, [that Mr Saltmarsh his exceptions at Mr. Edwards are injurious, because he once spake well of him.] But if Mr. Saltmarsh have given Mr. Edwards a good report, is this fair requitall in M. Ed∣wards to traduce him so unchristianly in print? To ramble up here∣sies errours, and unwarrantable opinions (upon trust) and then to set his name before them? was this well done? is he now, or M. Ed∣wards most injurious?

Mr. VICARS.

1. That the Independents indeavour to make the Covenant a nose of wax by their false Comments, for advance of their owne wicked ayms and ends. 2 That Dr. Homes will do nothing in his Parish, un∣lesse they will dance after his Independent pipe. 3. That Mr. Iohn Bachiler is an Independent brother: that Independents come near the Jesuits, because they would not joyn in a Petition against Com∣missioners, to judge of sins not enumerated in the Ordinance for the Lords Supper. 4. That Independents have a fine back doore of e∣vasion against such as censure them, because of their pretence of new∣lights, which is like the popish Equivocation.

Answ.

[ 1] To the first [that the Independents indeavour to make the Cove∣nant a nose of wax, &c.] Produce those false Comments, else forbear to charge them upon us: but if there were any, you needed not to feare them; for the house of Commons have assured you in their late excellent Declaration, that no forced constructions shall be admitted, or put upon the people of this Kingdom, and I am confident all Inde∣pendents (as you call them) will subscribe to this particular.

[ 2] To the second [that Dr. Homes will do nothing in his parish, unless they dance after his Independent pipe.] I must confesse you have a

large formall Story of the Doctor, as if you had compared Notes with reverend Mr. Edwards: have you nothing else to do, but to print over the second part of Esop's Fables? and fill the Presse with tales of a Cock and a Bull? Give me leave (Sir) to stroak your gravity; you have the Beard (I must confesse) though not the Breast plate of Aaron, and may passe for a man of discretion by your looks, though not by your works: for were your cause ever so good, it can never be worse defended, than by rallying up slanders and accusations a∣gainst the Brethren.

[ 3] To the third, [that Mr. Bachiler is an Independent brother, and that Independents come near the Iesuits.] And its probable (if you go on as you begin) the Lawes against Priests and Jesuites may be pleaded against them, the great Whore must be arrayed with Crim∣son and Scarlet, the great Dragon also is red: If ye are of that Ser∣pentine disposition, fill ye up the measure of your Fathers the Bishops, that upon you may come all the righteous blood? What can we ex∣pect lesse, when such bitter invectives are daily vented, to turn the fury of the unstable multitude against the Brethren?

As touching Commissioners, pray be not angry, they are pretty coolers for Ambition; the Parliament will have it so, and good rea∣son they should have a share, till the Divine Right be proved. And for Mr. Bachiler, he hath better learned Christ, then to withhold truth in unrighteousnesse, or stifle it at the Presse, at the birth, as you desire; just as Pharaoh would have had the godly Midwives to de∣stroy all the Males of Israel.

[ 4] To the fourth, [that Independents have a fine door of evasion, be∣cause of their New-lights, which are like the popish equivocation.] Now I perceive you are in the very gall of bitternesse, and bond of, iniquity, who contend against the truth. Is there not a passing from grace to grace, from glory to glory in Gospel knowledge? Doth God reveale all at once? have we attained perfection? are we so well acquainted already with Gospel-mysteries, and Gospel government, that we need look after no further discoveries in the hidden things of God? We must not (like Hercules) set up our Pillars with a Nil ul∣tra, rather Plus ultra should be a Christians Motto.

How dare you then call it a Deceitfull trick of impudent Impo∣stors to look after more light? we should all be Seekers in this kinde: Had former years nuzled themselves in a contentation in that light they then had, where then had been this light we now enjoy toward

a Reformation? It is not long since we were under the darknesse of Antichristian Prelacy, and being but newly peept forth, the vaile not yet quite off our eyes, shall we take upon us to see all immediately, as if we had bin in the Mount with God, & brought down the patern? But if that light which is in us be darknesse, how great is that dark∣nesse? And as the Apostle sayes, if any man think he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know, 1 Cor. 8 2.

Take heed therefore lest while ye rare against new-lights ye work despight to the Spirit of God. To quench it in a mans self is a great sin, but to labour to quench it in others, to blaspheme it, and cause it to be blasphemed by others, is that sin which (our Saviour sayes) shall never be forgiven.

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mer∣cies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one minde. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in lowlinesse of minde, let each esteem others better then themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others, Phil. 2. 1, 2, 3, 4.

Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love, in honour preferring one another. Minde not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own con∣ceits. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men, Rom. 12. 10. 16. 18.

For other foundation can no a 1.2 man lay, then that is laid, which is Iesus Christ. But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, b 1.3 ye sin against Christ. Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the others, for why is my c 1.4 liberty judged of another mans conscience? Think not of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up d 1.5 for one against another. Let no man deceive himselfe, if any man among you seem to be wise in this world, let him be∣come e 1.6 a foole, that he may be wise; for the wisdome of this world is foolishnesse with God. But he that is spirituall judgeth

all things, yet he himself is judged of no man, f 1.7 for who hath known the minde of the Lord that he may instruct him? And what agreement hath the temple of God with Idols? For ye are the temple of the living God, as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. g 1.8 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you. And will be a father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Con∣sider, and the Lord give you understanding in all things.

As for the Quaere's at the latter end of your book, propounded (as you think) by Monsier du Moulin, Professor of Divinity in the Uni∣versity of Sedan in France, I shall say no more but this, that the thing in controversie is begg'd, those Quaere's being founded upon a meer prudenciall government, supposed allowable in the Church of Christ, denied by us, but not proved by him, and so those Quaere's fall of themselves.

FINIS.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Luk. 23. 2.
• a 1.2

  1 Cor. 3. 11.
• b 1.3

  1 Cor. 8. 12.
• c 1.4

  1 Cor. 10 29.
• d 1.5

  1 Cor. 4. 7.
• e 1.6

  1 Cor. 3. 18.
• f 1.7

  1 Cor. 2. 15.
• g 1.8

  1 Cor. 6. 16, 17, 18.