An Answer to a question of a gentleman of quality (proposed to and made by a reverend and learned divine living in London) concerning the settlement or abolition of tithes by Parliament ...

Animadversions upon the Petition of the Committee of Kent.

AGainst this, that which moved you to thinke the Parliament would take away Tithes, was, that you have read in one of the newes bookes, that the Knights and Gentlemen of Kent pre∣sented a petition to the Honourable House of Commons, against the payment of Tithes unto Ministers, and that they received thanks from the Speaker in the name of the House for that service, and that it is held fit to be a leading case for all other Counties of the Kingdome.

You must beware how you believe the newes bookes, for they are many times ignorantly and inconsiderately erroneous, or fal∣laciously false, out of an ill affection to some, and apparent par∣tiality to others.

For the Petition it selfe, 1. It commeth not as from the Knights and Gentlemen of that County in common, (who I am credibly informed are not very well pleased with it) but from the Committee of Kent, who (if they be like the Committees in ma∣ny places) are not all of them men of sound, and orthodox Judgement, neither for matter of Tithes, nor for divers other Tenets of Religion.

2. Howsoever they professe a good meaning to establish a sufficient maintenance for godly and well deserving Ministers; a very good meaning to extend it so farre as to succor their wi∣dowes

do wes and fatherlesse children, as we see by the 8^th proposition of their new project. It will be a probleme (which the present age perhaps will not be able to resolve) who the Trusties in after times will accept for such Ministers; although they may have cause to suspect that some part of Kent for the present is not so refor∣med as it should be; Anabaptists and other sectaries having mis∣led many into adverse principles, not onely to Tithes, but to other matters of moment, concerning mans duty both of the first and second Table.

3. For their exceptions against the received maintenance by Tithes they say first, in generall, That they bewayle the sad condi∣tion of the Country, in respect of the uncertaine floting, and mise∣rable condition of the Ministry, occasioned by the very nature, man∣ner, and adjuncts of the way of Tithes; which the experience of thus many ages doth plainly evince to be miserably attended with these en∣suing mischiefes.

To which I answer;

That the miserable and floting condition of the Ministry pro∣ceeds not from the nature, manner or adjuncts of their subsistence by way of Tithes; nor doth the experience of thus many ages (that is, of the precedent ages hitherto) evince so much; for God (who is omniscient, and therefore cannot but foresee all subse∣quent inconveniences for many hundred yeares to come) establi∣shed that meanes to be a standing and settled maintenance for his service; and the misery of the Ministry proceeds not from the nature or manner of Tithes (which to affirme may seem to coast too neere their conceipt who imagine God to be the author of sinne) but from the ill consciences of men, who make no scru∣ple to rob God of his right, Malach. 3. (for Tithes are his por∣tion, Levit. 27.30.) and Ministers may suffer very much in the present age, because there be many Anabaptisticall sectaries (from which Kent is not more free, but as some say, more infected then some other Counties) who take up importunate clamours against Tithes as Antichristian and Jewish; and there will be the more by the countenance they may have from such a petition; and such petitioners, because divers of them are of good reputation, not onely for wealth, but for their wisedome and learning well affected to Religion and the Parliament; and I beleeve it the

rather, because some godly ministers have expressed their appro∣bation both of it & them, though therein I conceive they shewed more of the simplicity of the dove then of the wisedome of the serpent; for albeit their meaning might be so to gather the Tithes, and to put them into such hands, as might be rather for the Mi∣nisters ease then for their losse, no man can prophesie that so good a spirit will descend upon their successors, nor how crosse they may prove to such a Christian Intention.

[Petit.] 2. For the particular exceptions, they say; first, That for the na∣ture of this subsistence it is a very mystery, and secret, not easily with∣out much art and industry attained unto; namely for the Minister to know his dues demandable, or the parishioners their dues payable; whence ariseth that multitude of scandalous and vexatious suites and brables betwixt Ministers and people, which doth fill all the Courts at Westminster, and other the Justice-sittings in the Country like∣wise with causes in this kinde.

In this charge there be two particulars contained, first, of the difficulty of knowing the right of Tithes; secondly, of the vexatious suites raised betwixt pastors and people upon that ground.

For the first, It is a very strange mystery, that after so many hundred yeares of Tithing it should not yet be knowne what it is; but I doubt not but in this case the right is better knowne unto Ministers that should receive Tithes, then acknowledged by the people that ought to pay them; And how can they set up their new designe upon the old foundation of Tithing, as they project it, if it cannot be knowne what is the Ministers de∣mandable due, what the peoples payable duty: that modell is more like to be a mystery which they propound, since it was ne∣ver heard of in this Kingdome untill they had devised it; and as like it is to prove a misery to Ministers, if their portion should come into no better hands then most of theirs, who have petiti∣oned against Tithes since this Session of the Parliament.

And secondly, for the multitude of scandalous and vexatious suites, they make no more against the Right of Tithes, then a∣gainst borrowing and lending, buying and selling, letting of leases, setling inheritances, Joyntures, &c. upon which titles are set the greatest number of suites; and for suites for Tithes

if the law allow them a right, it alloweth them a remedy to reco∣ver that right; and for the suites that were occasioned thereby, they are neither so many as is here presented, nor so scandalous for the Ministers part, for they may be imputed to the old avarice of worldly minded men, who being of a contrary mind to the Apostle, thinke it an hard bargaine to exchange their carnall for the Ministers spirituall things; but principally to the new principles and practises of such unreasonable reformers, as imagine they are never farre enough removed from one extreame untill they ar∣rive at the other, accounting all superstitious in point of Tithing, that are not sacrilegious.

[Petit.] 2. For the manner of it, respecting either the collecting or pay∣ment of Tithes, it is a mutuall scourge in the hand of Ministers and people each to other, if either or both (as too often it happens) prove covetous or crosse.

[Answ.] If it be a mutuall scourge, it would well become the wise∣dome of these Committee-men to enquire where the right is, and who doth the wrong, and to project a way how the wrong∣doer may be made to doe right and to give due satisfaction to such as suffer under an undeserved scourge, and I hope when our reformation is grown up to such a competent degree of strength and stature as that it may quit the service of Country Commit∣tees, there will be no more cause of such a complaint then for many hundred yeares heretofore there hath been.

[Petit.] 3. For its adjuncts (that is of the maintenance by Tithes) the mischiefes of them will appeare innumerable, if the pregnancy of onely one be but considered; namely, in the unreasonable proportion of livings, or values of Churches to which they are belonging, whence arise these inseparable evils.

[Answ.] By what new-found Logick will you frame such an Inducti∣on, as from one particular to inferre innumerable mis∣chiefes, particularly from the disproportion of livings? You seeme to thinke otherwise, where you say in your 8^th propositi∣on, that in the distribution of the revenues for Ministers regard must be had to the desert of the person, his family, and charge; if so, certainly there is a great disproportion in deserts; and for charge it is considerable, not onely for the greatnesse of a Mini∣sters family, but for the dearnesse of his education; some have

spent many yeares, and a large patrimony in the University, to make them fit for the Ministery; and should not they be suppli∣ed with a more liberall allowance (caeteris paribus) then those who have been at little expence both of time & estate to be duely qualified for such a calling? If the proportion of parts, and paines, of charge both Academicall, and Oeconomicall, be due∣ly weighed, there will be many more livings found too little then too great for a Ministers maintenance; especially if you will al∣low him a Library (such as a learned Knight thought necessary for a Minister) of 600. l. value. But if the proportion be unrea∣sonable, must Tithes be supplanted and their ancient Tenure abo∣lished for such a disproportion? must the foundation be digged up because the building is too high? may not a tree, whose bran∣ches are too luxuriant, be lopped, and left entire in the bodie and roote? when a mans beard is too long, will you cut off his chinne? that out of doubt were an unreasonable reformation.

[Petit.] 4. From this unreasonable proportion, you say, arise these unseparable evils. 1 That most unworthy persons, who by fa∣vour or friendship or any sinister wayes can get into the greatest livings, being once invested with a legall right of freehold for their lives, securely fleece the flocke, and feed themselves without feare or care, more then to keep themselves without the compasse of a se∣questration, whilst others both painfull and conscionable both serve starve.

[Answ.] This is not (as you call it) an unseparable evill from the proportion you speake of; for there be some men who have had, and at this present have great livings, not by any sinister wayes, but by such favour and friendship as is ingenuous, and just, and who keep as great a distance from desert of sequestrati∣on as any Committee man doth within the County wherein they live. And if they carry themselves so as to be without feare and care, and without the compasse of a sequestration, in these in∣quisitive and accusative times, they are more to be countenanced and encouraged then many of those who are professed adver∣saries to them. But the matter, it seemes, that troubles you is, that they are invested with a legall right of freehold for their lives, and if they have such a right, and walke so warily as to keep out of the reach of a just sequestration, why should they not enjoy

it? would you have all to be betrusted to the discretion and conscience of your arbitrary Committees? Truely Gentelemen, we are afraid to trust you so farre, as to give up such a certaine title as formerly and anciently established upon the Incumbent by the fundamentall Lawes of the Land, as the right of any person to his Temporall estate, and to stand to your arbitrary dispensations for our livelihood; lest Laban-like you should change our wages ten times: and if your petition should take place, it might prove of very ill consequence in another generation, were you never so well minded, and it may be sooner (in the next succession:) for if the Trustees should be either proud or covetous, or pro∣phane or licentious, hereticall, or schismaticall, the best Mini∣nisters might happily be the worst dealt withall; and the right of receiving Tithes taken out of their hands might put them in∣to the passive condition of filly and impotent wards under sub∣till and domineering Tutors or Guardians, in name such, but in∣deed nothing lesse then assertors and defenders of their rights, as Tutors and Guardians ought to be. And that our feare and jea∣lousie is not without cause in respect of Trustees and Committee∣men, nor so much of you in particular, of some of whom we have heard and beleeve much good, as of such as may have as great au∣thority without so good an intention, we shall give you our ground out of the observation and complaint of witnesses above exception, viz. the well affected freemen and covenant-engaged Citizens of the City of London, in their humble representation to the right Honourable the Lords and Commons in Parliament as∣sembled, in these words. And here we may not omit to hint unto your Honours the exorbitant practises of many Committees and Committee-men, who have such an influence by meanes of their au∣thority upon the people, they being at their wills and in their power to doe them a displeasure, that they dare not doe otherwise, then obey their unlawfull commands, without the inevitable hazard of their peace and safety; through which meanes tyranny is exercised by one fellow-subject upon another, and justice and equity cannot enter. The cryes of all sorts of people through the land are growne so loud against the people of this vocation and profession, by reason of those grievous oppressions that are continually acted by them, that in ten∣dernesse of affection toward our brethren, not being ignorant or insen∣sible

of our owne sufferings in this kind, and the great dishonour ac∣crewing to the Parliament thereby, that we cannot but be earnest sui∣tors to your mercy and justice that such may be dissolved.

[Petit.] 2. For obtainment of these livings we see such sordid compliances with such persons as have the fattest benefices (as they count and call them) in their dispose; such artifices in contriving, making, and colouring over Simoniacall and sinfull bargaines, compacts, and matches, such chopping of Churches, and restlesse change of places, till they get into the easiest and warmest: and other such like practi∣ses not to be named, nor yet to be prevented or removed, otherwise then by plucking up the very roote which naturally brancheth out it selfe into these foresaid mischiefes, so obstructive and destructive to all reformation.

[Answ.] Here is a great deale of aggravating rhetoricke against the great∣nesse of Church-livings. But why should all this evill be imagined rather of Ministers fat benefices as you say they are called, then of great and gainfull offices in the State? Is there not more care had, and more strict triall taken of Ministers sincerity and inte∣grity then of secular officers? surely we are bound in charity to expect a more reformed Ministery, then we have had, who will rather say unto a Simoniacall patron as Peter to Simon Magus, Thy monie perish with thee, Acts 8.20. then be Levies to such a Simeon in making a base and corrupt contract for a benefice. And for that you say, that such practises are not to be prevented or removed, otherwise then by plucking up the very roote, which na∣turally brancheth it selfe out into these foresaid mischiefes, so ob∣structive and destructive to all religion. Whether you meane Tithes to be this roote, or the disproportion of Benefices, or the right of patronage and protection, I cannot tell, but sure I am, that the Apostle cals covetousnesse the root of all evill, and so the root of that evill which sometimes passeth betwixt a Patron and his Chaplaine: and may as frequently, and with as much injury be found betwixt some Committee-men and Trustees and the Mini∣sters of their choice, as any other. But as I am confident that there will be an amendment on the Ministers part, by the regular way of the Parliaments reformation, according to the directions of or∣dination of Ministers already printed & accordingly practised, so will it bee not onely possible, but easie for the State to finde out

a fit means to prevent prevarication on the part of the Patron; but if Tithes be removed from their ancient foundation, and lest loose to the disposall of Trustees or Committee-men, they will be a more ready prey for the covetous into whose hands they may come, and from whose hands perhaps they cannot without great difficulty be redeemed.

Lastly, in the close of this Petition, the Petitioners shew great care that the Ministers may be freed from the incumbrance of Tithes, to serve the Lord without distraction, and to give them∣selves to the Word of God and Prayer, and to be onely employed to make ready a people prepared for the Lord; And so they may do if they be maintained by Tithes; for that means of main∣tenance gives a man occasion of more and better acquaintance with the particular disposition of his people, and it is his part to be diligent to know the state of his flock, Prov. 27.23. And for that trouble which may be thought inconsistent with the Calling of a Minister, if his means be sufficient, he may have a servant to take it from him, and ease him of it. I know a Minister whose Benefice was a Vicarage, and his Parish so large, that it was 11 miles in length, and of a proportionable breadth, yet did it not put him to the expence of one day in a year to compound for, or gather in his dispersed portion.

Now for the successe and acceptance of the Petition in the Honourable House of Commons, to which it was presented; if such an innovation had been granted for that County, it had been fitter to have been made a Sibboleth, for that cauthe or an∣gle of the Kingdome (for so the word Kent signifieth) as their custome of * 1.1 Gavelkind, then to be made a president or pattern of conformity to other parts of the Kingdome, as the News-Book of the same week prescribed that to his Reader.

But the answer of the worthy Senate was such as may fur∣ther confirm us in our confidence, that they will still continue to be gracious Patrons of the maintenance of Ministers, and that they will be more ready to ratifie precedent Statutes and their

own Ordinance made in that behalf, then to dissettle their te∣nure which is founded upon them, and to make Ministers arbi∣trary Pensioners to such as may be so far swayed by misprision of judgement, or personall dis-affection, as to deal most penu∣riously with those, who being truly valued (without erroneous mistaking or injurious misliking) may both by the eminence of their parts, and their faithfulnesse in their places, deserve the most ample, and most honourable Revenue. I will give you their answer in their own words, which are most authentick, they are these.

M. Speaker by order of the House of Commons did give the Peti∣tioners (the Committee of Kent) thanks for their former services, and took notice of their good affections to the Publique; and did acquaint them, That the great businesses of the Kingdome are now instant and pressing upon them, and that they will take the Petition into consideration in due time, and that in the mean time they take care that Tithes may be paid according to Law.

[Object.] But there are some in the Parliament that hold the mainte∣nance of Ministers by Tithes to be Jewish and Popish, and there∣fore they will give countenance to Petitions that are put up a∣gainst them, and doe what they can under such titles to render them offensive to such as are truly religious, especially to those who have most power to abolish them.

[Answ.] 1. It may be there are some such, and if there be some such a∣mong so many, it is neither to be thought strange, nor true, for such a number of them as may be able to carry the cause against the continuance of Tithes.

2. For the tearm Jewish, it is mis-applyed against Tithes, as it was by the Prelates of late, & is by the Anabaptists at the pre∣sent against the Sabbath; nor are they more Popish then Jewish; For the Papists, though their people pay them, and their Priests receive them, yet they for the most part holding thē to depend meerly upon Ecclesiastical constitution, made no scruple of chan∣ging them into secular titles or uses, as in Impropriations in the hands of Lay-men, and many other distributions made out of them severall ways, without any respect to the service of the Sanctuary. Nor is there any thing in the payment and recei∣ving of Tithes under the state of the Gospel, which may pro∣bably

be suspected to have any savour of Judaisme, or Popery, save onely the payment of Tenths by the Ministers to the King, as hath been lately well observed by M^r L. in his second Book against M^r S. I will set down his words, and seriously com∣mend them to the consideration of our religious Reformers; they are these, in answer to M^r S. his Question.

Qu. What a 1.2 are the maintenance of Ministers by Tithes? Jewish and Popish undenyably.

Ans. How? Jewish and Popish undeniably? As undeniably as the Sabbath was Jewish when the Prelates so called it, or the article of the Trinity Popish, as b 1.3 Valentinus Gentilis took it, when he disli∣ked the doctrine of the Reformed Churches in that point, because they agreed with the Papists therein. You are grossely mistaken Sir in the tenure of Tithes, for though there be a clamour taken up against them by such as make no scruple either of slander or of sacriledge, and some would change the Ministers portion, which is their masters wages for his own work, and reduce them to volun∣tary pensions of the people, (because they would have a liberty to begger them who will not humour them in their fond and false o∣pinions, and licentious practises, but oppose them as of conscience they are bound to doe) neither you, nor all your party can prove them either Iewish or Popish, as they are allowed and received for the maintenance of the Ministers of England. And because you are so confident in your opinion against Tithes, and shew your self to have a good opinion of M^r Nye, (whom with M^r Goodwin c 1.4 you cite for a worthy saying touching the golden Ball of Govern∣ment) I refer you for satisfaction to him, who will tell you (as he hath done divers others in my hearing) that Ministers of the Gospel may hold, and receive Tithes for their maintenance by a right and title which is neither Jewish nor Popish, but truly Chri∣stian; and there is nothing Iewish or Popish in Tithes, but the as∣signation of the decimae decimarum, from the d 1.5 Leviticall Priests to the high Priest, from the high Priest to the e 1.6 Pope, and from the Pope to the King; when first Pope Urbane gave them to Richard the second to aid him against Charles the French King, and others that upheld Clement the seventh against him, as f 1.7 Polydore Virgil re∣lateth. And King Henry the eighth taking from the Pope the ti∣tle of head of the Church to himself by g 1.8 Act of Parliament, took

from him the tenths, and other profits annexed to that title, which were setled upon the Crown by h 1.9 Statute in the 26^th year of Henry the 8. so that the Iewish high Priesthood being expired, the papall Lordship abolished, the Tithes paid under those titles, may be cal∣led Iewish and Popish, but not that which is assigned for the main∣tenance of Ministers, because they are yet to doe service to their Master, and so to receive the maintenance of his allowance for his work; which fellow-servants cannot take upon them to take away without presumption; their door-neighbour will not allow them a power to appoint the wages of their servants, much lesse may they usurp upon the right of God, and his Ministers, to alienate tithes from the support of his service and worship, for that is rather Po∣pish, as hath before been observed.

Which being true and clear, (as touching the pedegree of such Tithes from the high Priesthood of Aaron to the Indepen∣dent Prelacy of the Pope, and from him to the King, as by claim from the title, Head of the Church, translated from the Mi∣ter to the Crown) it will not I conceive be thought con∣gruous to the Christian Reformation (the thorow Reformation professed by our worthy and religious Rulers) that such Monu∣ments of Superstition or Popery should be removed, which were unprofitable, and that onely retained (as a silver shrine to Diana) which brings gain to the King or State, and puts the charge upon the Ministers of the Gospel; who thereby (I may say it confidently for some whom I know) are brought to this perplexed Dilemma, either to pay them with reluctancy, (as no lesse contrary to their consciences then to their commodities) or to deny or withhold them with suspition, or imputation of avarice, or disobedience to lawfull Authority.

[Obj.] But the Parliament liketh not that Tithes should be proposed, or pressed, as many Divines doe, both in Pulpit, and from the Presse, as of divine right; which because they think to be wrong, they will rather reject them, then ratifie them under a title of so high a strain.

[Answ.] 1. Not onely Divines, but divers i 1.10 others (who are men of ve∣ry eminent note) hold Tithes to be due by divine right, and some of them have undertaken to prove them so, and to answer all objections against them, which how far they have performed

is left to the judgement of indifferent Readers.

2. It is more like that (as both religion and reason will di∣ctate unto them) they will be the more wary how they take them away, lest if that tenure should prove true, they should be found guilty of the sin of sacriledge, that they should abolish them, and that they will seriously search and enquire into the ground of that title, and while they are in doubt, that they will resolve of the safest course, which is, not to repeal them; for as we must forbear to feed of meats of which another saith, that they are sacrificed to idols, 2 Cor. 10.28. (for his sake that saith it, though but a private Christian;) so if Divines say, (and bring Scripture and reason for it) that Tithes are dedicated to God, or by him assumed, first to himself, and then assigned or set over by him to his servants, for his work in waiting on his worship, which must be maintained to the worlds end, it will be rather a reason for them to support the tenure of Tithes by their Parli∣amentary power, then any way to prompt or dispose them to desert it, or to alienate their right from Ecclesiasticall uses.

The fear of sacriledge hath been of such force with some hea∣then Moralists, as Plutarch observeth in his Morals, that if they pulled down a house contiguous to a temple, they would leave some of that part standing which was next unto it, lest they should with it take away any part of the Temple it selfe. Wherein if they shewed any spice of superstition, it will be more capable of pardon, or lesse liable to punishment at the hand of God, then we may expect if we proceed hastily to lay violent hands upon any thing peculiarly entituled to his honour, who is the authour and giver of all things to all men.

2. If the plea of a divine right for Tithes (supposing it set∣reth them up too high) should incline to irritation in some to make opposition against them, why should not the contrary te∣net which peremptorily taketh them down too low, calling them Jewish, Antichristian, and Popish, and that undeniably, (as hath been said, but never can be proved) move others the rather to retaine them, and confirm them? chiefly the Parliament (whose authority is most engaged for their justification) and e∣specially since the servants of God have had possession of them by so many laws, and so long a prescription; for according to

the maxime of the law, * 1.11 the possessers title is the best untill he bee fairly evicted out of it.

3. If the Parliament doe not in their approbation of Tithes come up to the tenure of divine right, they may yet be willing enough to establish them upon other grounds, and leave Divines to the liberty of their judgment & consciences to plead for them according to the principles of their own profession, as in their Ordinances made for setting up of the Presbyterial Government, though yet they be not satisfied of the claim of divine right for it, they were pleased to authorize it by their Ordinance, and to require Divines to prepare the people for the reception there∣of by preaching of it, and for it; so as both to clear it, and as∣sure it (so farre as they could) by the sacred Scripture.

And on the other side while they approve it, though but by a civill assent, (as to a prudentiall design, untill they see more light, which they look for in the Answer to their Queres propo∣sed to the Assembly of Divines) the Presbyterians who hold it in the highest esteem take none offence that they proceed no farther, and professe themselves well satisfied with their civill sanction; so one of the learned Commissioners of Scotland hath said, in the name of the rest, in these words. * 1.12 If they shall in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing, which is really, and in it self agreeable to the Word of God, though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ, they are satisfied.

Ob. If there were no purpose to put down Tithes by such as are in Authority, how commeth it to passe that the Anabaptists are more bold in London to take up a publique contestation a∣gainst them, then the Presbyterians to make apology for them? for did not one M^r B. C. an Anabaptist manage a dispute against M^r W. I. of Chr. and after that undertake another upon the same argument against M. I. Cr. and offered to proceed in it against all opposition, which M. Cr. durst not doe, upon pre∣tence of a prohibition from authority?

Ans. 1. It is no strange thing for men who have a bad cause to set a good face on it, and to make out with boldnesse and confidence what is wanting in truth of judgement, and strength of argument; * 1.13 this is observed of the Papists by a judicious Au∣thour, whom he sheweth to have been forward in the offers of di∣sputation;

with iterated and importunate suits for publique audience and judgement. And Bellarmine reporteth out of Surius, that Io: Cochlens a great Zealot for the Papacy, * 1.14 offered to dispute with any Luther an upon perill of his life, if he fayled in the proof of his part of the Question.

2. For the boldnesse of the Anabaptists at this time, and in this Cause, and this City, there may be divers conjectural reasons in particular given thereof, besides the generall already obser∣ved; as,

1. Because they advance in their hopes of a toleration of their Sect; and to promote that hope they have been so ready to engage in military service, with a designe no doubt to get that liberty by force (if they be able) which by favour of autho∣rity they cannot obtain.

2. For this matter of Tithes, they might be more forward to oppose their tenure, because it is a very popular and plausible argument, wherein they might have the good wils of the peo∣ple, that they might prevail, and their conceits that they did so, * 1.15 (though they did not) because they would be very apt to be∣leeve what they vehemently desire may come to passe; and it is not to be doubted but a dram of seeming probability will prevail more with most worldlings to spare their purses, then an ounce of sound reason to put them to charges.

3. They might take some encouragement to dispute against Tithes in this City, because there is a project to change the maintenance of the Ministers set on foot by many worthy, and well-minded Citizens, which yet in truth makes nothing for the Anabaptists opinion, who would have Ministers maintained by meer benevolence; for the Citizens, as they intend a more libe∣rall allowance then the former, (since they see many of their Churches are destitute of Ministers, because their Ministers have been destitute of means) so they mean that it shall be cer∣tain, setled by Authority, and not left arbitrary to the courtesie of men.

3. For the two disputes, the one managed betwixt M. W. I. and M. B. C. the other purposed betwixt M. I. Cr. and the same B. C. but disappointed, it makes nothing at all for the taking away of Tithes, For as touching the former, they who were

not possessed with prejudice, or corrupted with covetousnesse against the truth, were much confirmed in the lawfulnesse of such rates as are paid in London under the title of Tithes, though indeed they are not Tithes, and of such onely was the debate at that time.

For the intended debate which was to be touching the divine right of Tithes, though some godly and prudent men thought it should not have been taken in hand without the warrant of pub∣lique authority, yet they made no doubt but that the truth of the cause, or ability of the man, who undertook the defence of it against M. C. would prevail unto victory. But for the dis∣appointment, it was by the warrant of the Lord Major of the City, to them both, interdicting the dispute, which was both without M. I. Cr. his knowledge, and against his good will; yet he obeyed the prohibition, and when his Antagonist insisted, and urged the performance of what was agreed upon, notwithstan∣ding the contrary command of the Lord Major, his answer was, that it was agreeable to the Anabaptists principles to disobey Authority, but not according to the principles of Presby∣terians. And lest B.C. should take it for a token of distrust in his cause, and make it an occasion of vain-glory, either against the cause or person of M. I. Cr. he proposed the printing of M. B. C. his arguments against Tithes, and engaged himself to an∣swer them in print, and so to refer both to the judgment of al un∣byassed Readers, which was the best way to give clear and full satisfaction to such as doubt on which side the truth is swayed by the most authentick testimony and soundest reasons.

It is no part of my task for the present to argue farther for Tithes, then may answer the doubt you have proposed to me, which is, of the Parliaments purpose and proceedings touching the establishing, or abolishing of them.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Gavelkind is a custome an∣ciently obser∣ved in Kent, whereby the land of the fa∣ther is equally divided among all his sons, or the land of a brother equally divided among his brethren, if he have no issue of his own, this was so com∣mon a custome as appears by the Stat. in the 18. year of H. 6. ca. 1. that there were not above 30 or 40 persons in Kent that held by any other tenure; but Anno 31 H. 8. ca. 3. many Gentle∣men upon Petition got an alteration thereof.
• a 1.2

  Smoke p. 25.
• b 1.3

  Qued Eccle∣siae reformatae ad huc in fide Tinitatis cum Papistis con∣conveniret. Bell. praefat. in lib. de Christe, Tom. 1. secund Con∣trovers. general. p. 271.
• c 1.4

  Smoke p. 14.
• d 1.5

  Numb. 18.28
• e 1.6

  In veteri lege primitiae debe∣bantur sacerdo∣tibus, decimae autem Levitis, & quia sub sacerdotibus Levitae erant, Dominus man∣davit ut ipsi lo∣co decimarum solverent sum∣mo sacerdoti decimam deci∣mae, unde nunc eadem ratione tenentur Clerici summo pontifici decimam dare si exigeret. A∣quin. 22. q. 87. a. 4. ad. 3. Soto 9. Inst. q. 4. art. 4. ad. 3. Lorin. in Num. 18.28. p. 687.
• f 1.7

  Polyd. Virg. Hist. l. 16.
• g 1.8

  Anno 26 H. 8. c. 1. Poult. A∣bridg. p. 561.
• h 1.9

  Ibid. c. 2. p. 565.
• i 1.10

  Sir. Ed. Coke in his second Re∣port in the Archb: of Can. his case. f. 49. b. And so the Au∣thour of the foregoing lear∣ned Work.
• * 1.11

  Longa possessio (sicut jus) parit jus possidendi & tollit actio∣nem vero domi∣no. Bract. l. 2. fo. 52.
• * 1.12

  M. Gillespie his brotherly exa∣mination of M. Colemans Serm. p. 32, 33.
• * 1.13

  Sir Ed: Sands Europ. Specul. p. 85.
• * 1.14

  Obtulit se ad disputandum cum quovis Lutherano sub poena capitis si in probationi∣bus defecisset. Bell. de Eccles. Script. p. 423.
• * 1.15

  Quod valdè volumus facilè credimus.