A manuel of controversies clearly demonstrating the truth of Catholique religion by texts of Holy Scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first 500 yeers, common sense and reason, and fully answering the principal objections of Protestants and all other sectaries / by H.T.

About this Item

Title
A manuel of controversies clearly demonstrating the truth of Catholique religion by texts of Holy Scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first 500 yeers, common sense and reason, and fully answering the principal objections of Protestants and all other sectaries / by H.T.
Author
Turberville, Henry, d. 1678.
Publication
At Doway :: by Laurence Kellam,
1654.
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Subject terms
Catholic Church -- Doctrines.
Catholic Church -- Catechisms.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A63860.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A manuel of controversies clearly demonstrating the truth of Catholique religion by texts of Holy Scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first 500 yeers, common sense and reason, and fully answering the principal objections of Protestants and all other sectaries / by H.T." In the digital collection Early English Books Online 2. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A63860.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 13, 2024.

Pages

The maior is evident, because honor with an humble address by way of invocating their assistance, is due from all Pupills to their Guardians by the light of nature.

The minor (that they are our Guardians and Governours) is proved; See that ye despise not one of these little ones, for I say to you that their Angels in heaven (theirs by special patronage) alwayes see the face of my Father which is in hea∣ven, S. Matth. 18. 10. The Angels are all mini∣string spirits sent to minister for them who shall

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receive the inheritance of salvation, Heb. 1. 14.

That God hath appointed the Saints to govern us, is proved thus. He that shall ver∣come and keep my works to the end, to him will I give power over nations, and he shall rule them in an iron rod, Apoc. 2. 26 27. Thou hast made us (the Saints) to our God a kingdom, and Priests, and we shall reigne upon the earth, Apc 5. 10.

That they know our necessities, and affairs, is proved thus: There shall be joy before the An∣gels of God upon one sinner doing penance, S. Luke 15. 10. Take hed that ye despise not one of thse little ones, for I say to you their Angels that are in heaven alwayes see the face of my Father▪ &c. S. Matth. 18. 10. which of necessity implies, that the Angels know when we are injur'd, and pray to God in our behalf; and the Saints are as the Angels of God in heaven, S. Matth. 22. 31. Equall to the Angels, S. Luke 20. 36. Now therfore when thou didst pray and Sara thy daugh∣ter in law (saith the Angel to old Toby) I did present thy prayers to our Lord, ob. 12. 12.

That the Angels and Saints actually pray for us, is proved; The Angel of our Lord an∣swered and said, O Lord of Hosts, how long wil thou not have mercy on Hirusalm, and the cities of Juda, with which thou hast been angry thes threescore and ten years? Zach. 1. 12. The foure and twenty Elders fell down before the Lamb, ha∣ving every one of them harps and vialls ful of

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dors, which are the prayers of the Saints, Apoc. 5. 8. and Judas Machabeus saw in a vision Oni that had been High Priest, holding up his hands and praying for the Jewes, and pointing also to an∣other in these words; This is a lover of the Bre∣thrn, who prayeth much for the people, and for the holy Caty, (to wit) Jeremie the Prophet of God, 2 Machab. c. last. 12, 13, 14. Those had both been dead many years before.

That it is also good and profitable for us to worship and invocate the Saints and An∣gels, is proved thus; because the chosen friends of God are recorded in holy Scripture to have often done it.

I am the Prince of the host of our Lord (said the Angel to Josue) and Josue fel flat on the grund and adored, Josue 5. 14. Lot (when he had seen the Angels) roe up and went to meet them, and adored with his face bwed toward the earth▪ Gen. 19. 1. S John fel down to adore before the feet of the Angel (though he had once been willed not to do it) Apc. 22. 8. Therfore he thought and knew it lawful to be done, or els commit∣ted wilful ido latry, which we presume in com∣mon modesty none wil affirm.

The Angel that delivered me from all evil (saith the Patriarch Jacob) bless these children, Gen. 48. 16. Jacob prevailed against the Angel, and wept and prayed to him, Ose 12. 4. Be my name (saith Jacob) the names also of my fathers,

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Abraham and Isaac invocated n them, Gen. 48. 17. Grace to you (saith S. John) and peace from him that is, that was, and that shall come, and from the seven spirits that are in the sight of the throe, Apoc. 1. 4. seven Angels, according to the 12. of Toby. To conclude, Call therefore (saith E∣liphas to Job) and turn thee to some of the Saints, Job 5. 1. a very vain and sensless exprobration, had it not been a custome with Job to invocate the Saints.

Besides, the faithful on earth, being Mem∣bers of the same mystical Body of Christ with the blessed Angels and Saints in heaven, it can∣not stand with common sense and reason, but they must have some care and knowledge of our condition; because if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it, and if one member glory, all the members rejoyce with it, 1 Cor. 12. 25.

Fathers for this point.

IN the second Age Dionysius. I constantly af∣firm, with the divine Scripture, that the prayers of the Saints are very profitable for us in this life after this manner; When a man is inflamed with a desire to imitate the Saints, and distrusting his own weakness, betakes himself to any Saint, beseeching him to be his helper, and petitioner to God for him; he shall obtain by that means very great assistance.

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Eccles. Hierar. c. 7. par. 3. Sect. 3. prope inem▪

In the same Age S. Clement. We command you that the Martyrs be in all honor among you, even as James the Bishop, and Stephen our fel∣low Deacon hath been amongst us; for God hath made them blessed, and holy men have honored them. L. Apost. constitut. 5.

In the same Age Iustin Martyr. We worship and dore both God the Father and the Son, who came and taught us these things &c. and also the company of his followers and the good Angels, and we worship them both by words and deeds, and in truth, even as we our selves have been taught and instructed. In Apolog. 2. and Antoninum P••••m.

In the third Age Origen: I will begin to fall down on my knees, and pray to all the Saints to suc••••ur me, who dare not ask God for the ex∣ceeding greatness of my sin. O Saints of God! with teares and weeping I beseech you to fall down before his mercy for me a wretch. In La∣mentat.

And again: All the Saints departed bear∣ing yet charity towards the living, it shall not b inconvenient to say, that they have a care of their salvation, and help them with their prayers to God for them: for it is written in the Machabees, This is eremy, who alwayes prayes for the people, &c. Homil. 3. in Cantica.

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In the fourth age S. Chrysostome: They ado∣red the same Saints that we do at this day▪ Hom. de Sanctis Juven. & Maxim.

In the same age S. Ambrose, He honours Christ that honours his Martyrs Sermon. 6. And again: We must pray to the Angels who are gi∣ven us to be our defenders, we must pray to the Martyrs, &c. for they are able to pray for our sins, who have washed away their own▪ &c. These are the Martyrs of God, our Governors, and watchful beholders of our life and actions, l. de viduis.

In the same age S. Chrysostome: If Moses and Samuel shall stand before me, (Jerem 15.) observe (saith he) how it is said of the two Prophets, if they shall stand before me, &c. because they both had prayed for them, and had not obtained, &c. yet let not us contemne the pray∣ers of the Saints, &c. but let us intreat them to pray for us, that we may obtain the promises, Homil. 1. in Epist. ad Thessalon. And again, The servants of Christ even when they are dead, are the protectors of the kings of this world, Hom. 26. in 2. ad Cor.

In the fifth age S. Augustine: The multitude of the Gentiles doth now adore with bended knees most blessed Peter the Fisher-man: Sermon. de Sanctis Pet & Paul. And again, We do not worship thm as Gods, but as holy men, in Psalm. 96. And in another place, All the Martyrs

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that are with Christ intercede for as, nor cease they to pray for us, unless we cease to sigh after them, in Psal. 85. And finally in the 40. chapter of his Meditations he prayes thus: O blessed Trinity! preserve me from all evill &c. by the prayers of the Patriarchs, by the intercession of the Apostles, by the constancy of the Martyrs, &c. and by the in∣ter••••ssion of all the Saints, &c. Then having in∣vocated the B. Virgin, and many Angels and Saints by name, he concludes saying, I beseech you intercede for me a sinner, unto God, that I my be delivered from the jawes of the Devil and ever∣lasting death.

The Council of Gangers defined, That if any man out of pride abominate the assemblies which are celebrated a the confessions of the Martyrs, or execrate the mysteries which are there done toge∣ther with their memories, be he Anathem, Can. 20. an. Dom. 324.

The sixth Constantinopolitan Council defi∣ned, That a Christian, adoring onely God his Crea∣tr, may invocate the Saints, that they would vouchsae to pray for him to the divine Majesty, c. 7. an. Dom. 676.

The second Nicene Council, Lt us do all things with the fear of God, asking the intercessi∣ons of the ••••spotted Mother of God, as also of the Angels and all the Saints, Act. 3. 6. an. Dom. 781.

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Objections solved.

Ob. HOnor and glory be to God alone, 1 Tim▪ 1.

Answ. Supreme and soveraigne honor, true; Inferior honor, I deny it; and so doe▪ S. Paul, saying, Glory and honor, and peace to every one that doth good, Rm. 2. 10.

Ob. Hm only shalt thou serve, Dut. 6. 13.

Answ. As Lord and God grant: Yet by charity serve ye one another, Gal. 5. 15.

Ob. One Mediator of God and men, man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim▪ 2.

Answ. One principal Mediator of Redem∣ption I grant it: but many subordinate of in∣tercession. God gave the law in the hand of (Moses) a Mediator, Ga 3. 19. Every Parish Priest is a subordinate Mediator of intercessi∣on for his Parish.

Ob. Let all the earth adore thee, Psal. 65▪

Answ. True, and only him as Creator, Re∣deemer, and Conserver. Yet Jacob blessing his son Judas, said, Thy fathers children shall adore the, Gen. 49. 8.

Ob. Come unto me all ye that labor, &c. S. Matth. 11. 28.

Answ. This excludes not subordinate Me∣diators of intercession, otherwise it would be unlawful for us to desire our friends or Parish Priest to pray for us, contrary to that of

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S. Paul, Brethren I beseech you, that you also help me in your prayers to God for me, Rom. 15. 13.

Ob. Let no man seduce you in a voluntary hu∣mility and religion of Angells, Colos. . 18.

Answ. It followes▪ Not holding the head (Christ) of whom the whole body is composed, v. 1. He writes there against a Sect of Here∣tiques, who offered sacrifice to Angels, and neglecting Christ esteemed them immediate and principal mediatours, independent of Christ, all this we abhominate as grosse Idola∣try, this hresy was condemned long since by our Church in the Council of Lad••••••a, an. 35▪

Ob. How shall they invocate in whm they have not belived? Rom. 10. 14.

Answ. We cannot invocate any as a God, in whom we have not believed as a God, I grant: As fellow servants and mediatours of intercession to God for us, I deny: and though we believe not in the Saints as in God, yet have we also faith towards them, Have yee saith in ou Lord Jesus Christ and towards all the Saints. Epist. ad Philem. v. 5.

Ob. What I shall command thee that shal thou do, Deut. c 12. Therefore since there is no command for praying to Saints, we ought not do it.

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Answ. God spake that only in a particular case, forbidding them to imitate the sacrifices of the heathens, who sacrificed teir children to the devill; as is plaine by the words imme∣diately preceding. Not that he forbad us to practise any devotion in the Church without an exprss command for it in Scripture, other∣wise the invocation of the Trinity it selfe un∣der that notion, with all publike Liturgy and set forme of prayer, as also the changing of the Saturday into Sunday, with many other things, must be laid aside; there being no ex∣presse command in Scripture for them.

Ob. Abraham hath not known us, and Israel hath been ignorant of us, Isa. 63. 16.

Answ. He speaks there only of the know∣ledg of approbation, and signifies, that Abra∣ham and Israel did not approve or own them for their Children, by reason of their sinfull and wicked ways, not that they had no know∣ledg at all of them; let S. Hierom expound this text; Abraham knowes us not &c. because we have offnded thee, neither do they acknowledge for their children, whom they unsterstand not to be beloved of their God, &c. So Christ said of the reprobate, and of the foolish vir∣gins, I know you not, S. Luk 13. 25. S. Mat. 25. 12. yet you will not deny but that the knowe all things▪

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Ob. S. Peter forbad Cornelius to adore him, Acts 10.

Answ. S. Hierome sayes, He apprehended some divinity to be in Peter, and so did John in the Angel▪ when the Angel forbad him to adore him the first time, Apoc. 19. We do not honor any Angel, or Saint, as God.

Ob. The Saints are dead.

Answ. They pass from death to life, S. John 5. 24. We pray not to bodies, but souls.

Ob. The Devills are with us upon, or neere the earth, therefore, if they did see and know our actions, it would not follow that the Saints and Angells do.

Answ. Yes, it would, for spirits, which are not limited with matter, or confined to bodies, neither see, nor understand with cor∣poral eys as we do but with their glorified un∣derstandings, which are illuminated by the light of the Lamb: And therfore cannot be hin∣dred in their operations, by any distance of place, or interposition of Bodies.

Ob. If the Saints and Angells knew God perfectly with all his Attributes and all our actions besides, there would be no difference assigable betwixt their knowledg and Gods Omniscience.

Answ. Yes, infinite difference; because God knows not only all our actions, absolute∣ly speaking, with all created nature (which is

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much more then hath been hitherto asserted of Saints and Angells) but also his own es∣sence and perfections, with a most comprehen∣sive, infinite, essentiall, and uncreated know∣ledg, which Saints and Angells are not capable of, their knowledg (how great soever it may be) being always limited, finite, create, and a participation only of Gods knowledg.

Quere. If there be such eviction both of Scripture, and authority, for the worship and Invocation of Angells and Saints, as you af∣firme, why should all Sectaries cry out so much against it?

Aansw. Because, having rob'd God of that honour, which is proper to him only, to wit sacrifice, by taking away (as much as in them lies) the unbloody sacrifice of the Altar, if they should allow the outward actions, of kneel∣ing, bowing, standing bare, and praying to Angells and Saints, they should seeme to have nothing proper to God, yet they themselves might answer this objection, because allowing, as they do, all the same actions, even to men (and that, as they professe, without robbing God of his honour) why not rather to the Angells and Saints? but one absurdity being admitted, many will follow, and so it doth with them.

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