The novelty of the modern Romish religion set forth in an answer to three queries propounded by N.G., priest, with a rejoynder to his reply, and a reply to an answer made to three queries propounded unto him : together with animadversions upon some reflexions made by an unknown author ... / written by S.F., M.A. and vicar of Mitton in Craven.

Reflections upon a piece of Controversie written by S F.

The occasion of the Reflections.

S. F. having formerly put himself upon answer∣ing some Quaeries concerning points of Re∣ligion, and thereby engaged himself in a formal disputation, after much pains taken therein, both by himself and the person, whom he had made his Antagonist; the matter at last, as it seems, was laid aside, whether because his Adversary left the Country, or else seeing the Disputation was likely to prove both fruitless and endless, he thought it not worthy his further notice; I can only give a bare conjectural Reason, because I never yet understood who this person was; nor did I ever hear any thing of this so much Celebrated Piece till now, altho' the Authour of it hath boast∣ed very much that it hath travilled all Lancashire over to meet with an Answerer, but never hath found any so daring as to encounter it, so that needs it must remain victorious and unanswer∣able; and upon this acount was intended very speedily for the Press. But amidst these vapours, one replying that this seemed very strange, being that they never yet had heard of any thing that came forth, even by the most Learned, of the Protestant Religion, which had not been fully an∣swered. The Authour therefore resolved that it should first be shewed to a certain Person, who it might be conceived had never heard of it by reason of his late coming into those Parts; and accordingly sent it with this assurance, that if he

did not answer it, it should very speedily be prin∣ted; his Answer hereunto was, that if it was on∣ly satisfaction and truth that he aimed at, he con∣ceived himself obliged, both in civility and cha∣rity, to endeavour it; so to save him both the trouble and charges; but instead of a Paper as it was told him, receiving a formal piece of Con∣troversie already swell'd up to half a score sheet•• of Paper; what with answering, replying and rejoyning, he was almost determined not to con∣cern himself any farther in it for several reasons, at the least he resolved for the present only to re∣turn him a civil Letter, to let him know, that although he should be ready to vindicate the Cause when in reason it should be required, and to endeavour his sat••sfaction, if he found him de¦sirous to receive it: Yet why he should concern himself with any thing that looked like a personal Quarrel, especially in the behalf of a person al∣together unknown unto him, he saw no reason, ne••ther could it be expected from him, since the Party already concerned had laid it aside, as seeming to judg it not worth any farther notice▪ adding moreover some other reasons, drawn from the heats, animosities, and other inconveniencies, which disputations of that nature, when indis∣creetly, or passionately managed are most of all subject too: for which he was not willing to en∣gage himself in this: yet secluding these if he found him so moderately and sincerely disposed, as to oblige him to take any farther pains in en∣deavouring his satisfaction, either in this, or ••n any thing else he could serve him in; he should find him so far from doing it to make him an Ad∣versary, that he would not so much as think of it with any other intention, but to make him

more a friend; and to convince himself likewise how much he was an hearty well wisher of him. This Letter, although, free from intending the least prejudice to any one, and only in general expressing the inconveniencies, which but too frequently ensue upon such like occasions, was af∣terward answered by S. F. with another, captiously inferring many things as meant against himself, and quite through a great number of cavils and wor∣dish exceptions. This made him absolutely re∣solve to sit down in a protest silence, because it was not then an hard matter to foretell what would be the event of such a Controversy, and what credit to himself, or satisfaction to others might be expected, when such a Letter, not Mat∣ters of Religion was now become the subject of so furious a Contest; and therefore he would make an end of it with another Letter to inform him only of this his resolution, and his reasons why; let him make what sinistrous use of it he pleased, if it needs must be understood contrary to the sincerity and candour of it, or the former intended. This last Letter was so heinously taken, because he will neither allow one to vindicate himself from his accusations, as far as is reasonable; nor yet which is a far harder cafe, to sit quiet, and let him say what he pleases, and also perhaps because he foresaw that his Book was in danger to be sent back without an answer unto it, which he seemed all along to be afraid of; that whosoever hath but heard how violent and passionate he hath been in his expressions, discoursing with several persons since the recite of that Letter, would now at least condemn him of a guilt a personal quarrel∣ing, though there was no such charge brought a∣gainst his Papers in either of those Letters, and commend

mend the other for his prudence in seeking to de∣cline so certain an occasion.

But still S. F. continuing his importunities of having his Papers answered, or else acknowledged as unanswerable: I was desired by a very worthy Person whom he had likewise importuned very much for an answer, and whose request to me is always an obliging command, to look over them, and to consider how far they might in any wise deserve an answer, if perhaps for the future it might be thought convenient to send one without detaining them any longer; finding my self there∣fore under this obligation; and after some time also in such a condition that I could afford my self a little leasure, I purposed to peruse those Pa∣pers; though I must confess not without a cer∣tain unwillingness as to the thing it self, being al∣so but too fully satisfi'd, That Opinions and Con∣troversies once raised, are seldome or never laid by reason, because for the most part, the one Party puts on a resolution never to yield to the other, or never to acknowledg himself satisfied and his judgment convinced, though it be clear∣ly evinced, both by Scripture, Authority of the Church, Councels, Fathers, or whatsoever: be∣cause he will only be tyed to his own rule; and neither shall that signifie any thing, unless applied as he will himself; so that in effect he makes him∣self his own Judge, which is a certain way of vi∣ctory, at least in his own conceit, and in the ap∣prehension of the meaner sort of capacities, whom therefore such an one will not fail to amuse and inveigle with boasting words; and if there comes not forth immediately an Answer or Reply to every petty quibble, and exceptious cavil, pre∣sently to proclaim it unanswerable, and cry out

victory, because very few, or scarce any Body hath heard of it, and no Body judges it worth the taking notice of: Truly, it seems to me no small piece of fondness and extravagancy for any private person to buisie himself now-adays in wri∣ting against Points of Religion, and trouble o∣thers, either with reading, or answering his Books; when as the multitude already written upon that Subject, and affording incomparably more satisfaction, hath long since made the world to nauseate; and yet they are so far from deci∣ding any one Point controverted, that they ra∣ther give growth unto it through interest and passion, than any ways abate the fury of hot con∣tenders by reason. This I say not to decry Con∣troversies, or a prudent and serious examine and inquiry into the Truth; but the wilful abuses and passionate errours that are committed in the management of them, and the industry that is used to render them unprofitable, and endless; so that in fine, instead of putting an end to one Controversie, they often beget another, which is, whose Pen hath best expressed his passion not kept close to the matter controverted, and dis∣cussed it with reason. Now whether or no the learned Controvertist hath taken such a Course as to observe the one, and avoid the other, I leave to the judgment of the discreet and imparti∣al Reader, having first offered to his considerati∣on these few Reflections upon his method and way of answering, and afterward somewhat in answer not to every quible and captious criticism, for that would be both endless, and below the gravi∣ty and seriousness of the thing treated of, but only so far as may suffice to inform the Authour of his insincere dealing, and give satisfaction both to him and the prudent Considerer.

Reflection. I.

FIrst therefore by that short perusal that I have made of this piece of Controversie, I can only gather, that the Ground of this was no other than that the Person whom S. F. hath made his Adversary hath a desire to satisfie some of his friends, that the Religion professed by those that are called Papists is the same Religion, which was first preached in England, when it was first converted to the faith of Christ. And this by shewing that it is the same Religion which St. Austin the Monk, and Apostles of England preach∣ed to the Saxons; that which he taught the Sax∣ons to be the same with the Religion he professed amongst the Britains; and that of the Britains to be the same with the Religion which was plan∣ted in England by its first Converters. Now I see no reason why any one should so heavily fall out with this way of proceeding; for certainly had he taken the pains to have derived the Ca∣tholick Religion through every Century from the Apostles Time downwards to this present; and that by shewing a visibility, and a continued and an interrupted succession of it •• every Age, it would in all reason have added very much to the satisfaction of any discreet inquiring person; and yet because he had traced it upwards through sixteen Ages; S. F. might have said with as much reason, or more, that he had made a Journey of sixteen miles about, as that he hath made a Journy of three miles about, when one would have ser-as well. Whereas certainly to see a Religion proved to be visibly handed down through all Ages, and conserved in the same purity of Do∣ctrine

wherein it was at first delivered by its first Propagators, and the Apostles themselves, should be the greatest assurance and satisfaction imag••n∣able, that it must needs be the only true Religi∣on, and all others wanting this antient visibility, succession and continuance are false, and the meer inventions of men. Agreeable to this Cavil, he frames as strange an Answer to the Qu••ries, upon which likewise shall I fix my Observations how that.

Reflection. II.

ALthough to any rational Person not blinded with passion, or prepossessed with errour, antiquity alone and succession of that Religion, which is acknowledged by all to be the only true one, would be a sufficient manifestation of the true Religion; Truth only being able to prevail at last, and yet with S. F. it serves for nothing, and must not be of any advantage to those that pretend unto it: Because (saith he) should I grant so long succession, what advantage? A Turk may reason with the same probability, and prove as great Antiquity for his Religion; and a Jew greater for his. I can scarce in civility presume that there is any one of so mean a capa∣city in his Parish, but would be able of themselves both to find out the disparity, and weakness of this Argument, but that a Divine should shuffle off an Argument always reputed and granted to be of so much force and value with so poor a shi••t and weak a comparison, minds me of a saying in holy Scripture, Psal. 26. 12. Mentita est ini∣qu••tas sibi; fa••shood evermore standing in need of such rotten supports, that at length it betrays

both it self and its Abettors. The difference is obvious and plain to any of understanding; for •• the Turks▪ every Body knows that they do not pretend to derive their Religion any farther, or from any other than from Mahomet, or their Law, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 from the Alcoran, which being acknow∣ledged by themselves; as you cannot expect good fruit from a bad Tree, so neither from an Impostor and false Prophet can you expect other than lies and impostures, which being supposed as it is by all Christians, both of Mahomet, and his Law; neither the antiquity nor succession of his Sect can be any argument or proof of its truth; whereas Catholicks, at least, pretend to derive their Religion, and to prove a continual successi∣on of it from our Saviour Christ himself to his Apostles; and by them delivered unto others, and so downwards to this present, as they make it to appear, both by Scripture, Tradition, Counsels, and Holy Fathers, in an unanimous consent of all Ages: and as for a Jew pleading greater antiquity for his; this answer as well as the other would have something of force from the mouth of a Heathen or a Jew; but from any one that professeth Christianity, it hath nei∣ther any thing in it of sence or reason: for neither do they any more than the Turks believe in Jesus Christ, or in his holy Gospel: So that indeed, for us to press this argument against them, that the Catholick Religion is that which our Saviour taught his Apostles; and from them it has descen∣ded down unto us, and therefore it is the True Religion, would be of no force to convince them, because they would admit all that is in the antece∣dent; and yet still according to their Principles deny the Consequence, viz that it is the True

Religion, as well as we grant them the one, and deny the other of their Religion: whereas all Christians being agreeed thus far, that is all of them pretending to profess the Faith and Law of Christ, and to have their Religion, Sacraments, and Doctrine from him, cannot in reason urge one another with those same arguments where∣with the Infidels do impugn us; and which all Christians are equally obliged to deny, and to answer alike: nor can they without a manifest contradiction answer us in this particular as a Turk or Jew would do, unless they will deny their own principles, betray their belief, and renounce Christianity; but must of necessity grant, That that Religion which is most antient, and which is proved to be unalterably derived by a continued and interrupted Succession from him that is ac∣knowledged by both Parties to be the Authour of the True Religion, is to be admitted of as true by all; and consequently the continuance and an∣tiquity of it allowed as undeniable marks and te∣stimonies thereof. And if to prove these be of no more advantage than if a Turk or a Jew should prove the continuance and antiquity of theirs, I would fain know what must be advan∣tagious for the Catholicks; certainly if Mr. S. F. will not have antiquity and continuance to signifie any thing in behalf of our Religion, he will find that novelty will prove a very weak argument to support his own with: but I do not much won∣der why he should be so grievously fallen out with antiquity considering his principles; first because he is assured it will be no friend to him. secondly, because it is due to the Catholick Re∣ligion, even by the acknowledgment of Prote∣stant Writers themselves; and lastly because to

do it is very agreeable to the present Enthusia∣stick humour, that takes the liberty of setting up every day a new Religion, according to the whimsies of their own private spirit.

Reflection. III.

MY third Reflection is upon the reasonable∣ness of a request, which he tells you after all this he will make unto the person whom he has formerly made his adversary, viz. That he would substantially prove the affirmative of his queries, to wit this continuance or antient succession.

This in the judgment of any indifferent or ju∣dicious person, must needs seem an unreasonable thing to be demanded, first because he had imme∣diately before declared, that although it were so yet it should signifie no more with him, then if a Turk or a Jew pleaded the same; so that it is so far from being a reasonable request, that every body will grant, that it is the most unreasonable thing in the world, to urge any one to prove a thing, and at the same time to declare that the proof of it shall be of no benefit or advantage un∣to them; besides it is otherwise an unreasonable re∣quest or demand, since that the Protestants, of whom he professes himself (as I suppose) to be one, pretending to the title of Reformers, must needs grant as the word it self doth import, that they found the Catholick Religion in posses∣sion, not only in England, but all the Christian world over, with the unanimous and general con∣sent of all Nations, without either disturbance or contradiction; but on the contrary flourishing in the greatest calm, peace and ferenity that could be, till Martin Luther made an opposition and

rebellion; but whether upon the account of Re∣formation, or Deformation and Passion, might easily be made to appear, were it proper for this place; His own words to the Duke of Saxony, are a convincing argument, where he told the Duke of Saxony; perswading him for Gods sake, to return to the obedience of his Holy Mother, the Catholick Church; this quarrel was not begun for Gods sake, neither for Gods sake, should it be ended; so the Church of Rome being thus set∣led in an Ancient Possession, and that such an one, that at least in the Judgment and Confession of the Protestants themselves was justly prefumable to have come from Christ, ought not in any wise, to have been disturbed therein, without sufficient motives, and very weighty and evident reasons, possession it self alone being a sufficient Title, till evident and rigorous Proofs, not bare presumpti∣ons and probabilities are brought against it, to in∣validate it and shew that it is wrongful; as it is un∣deniable out of the principles both of Nature and Reason, as also by the practice of the Laws of En∣gland, as our Lawyers will tell you▪ and give you a number of examples and instances according to the common Maxim, Melior est conditio pessiden∣tis. A Religion therefore the most antiently set∣tled, the most universally acknowledged, the most apostolically delivered, and the only one in pos∣session, and being through the Christian world, as the Catholick was at the time of the first breach, ought not in common reason to have been changed or disobeyed upon pretences, suppositions, and meer probabilities, but ought to have been obey∣ed and admitted off, as the only true and undoubt∣ed Religion, till the contrary had been evinced and Demonstrated by most rigorous and manifest

Proofs, by this the reader may judg whether par∣ty standes oblidged to bring a substantiall Proofe the Catholicks an affirmative for the antiquity and continuance of their Religion, or the Protestants a negative against it, as also whither the demand was reasonable or unreasonable, and truly though it had been a reasonable request, yet it must needs be a great deale of severity to complain that it is not fulfilled before it was requested; and because Catholicks prove not what was not required of them, they must needs therefore be compared to the Aegyptian taskmasters.

Reflection. IV.

MY fourth and last Reflection, is upon his me∣thod and way of proceeding, as being both disorderly and unconclusive; for had he had a mind to have proceeded solidly in a dispu∣tation about points of Religion, it being a thing of the greatest importance that may be, he ought rather to have laid down some principle felf-evi∣dent; or as they say in Schools, per se notum, as a foundation to build his discourse on, and to have nominated also a Judg to determine whatsoever should be controverted betwixt them, and not to run and chase from one thing to another with∣out fixing upon any thing certain, or able to de∣cide the thing in Controversie: for to any ratio∣nal Person it must needs appear, that it will prove both an unprofitable and endless disputati∣on, when one Party says one thing, the other quite another, without being first agreeed upon some one Principle, or Rule to be directed by. Now had this learned Disputant assigned any such Rule, or Judg to give judgment in behalf of

what he had objected against the Catholick Reli∣gion, it would have been either allowed of, or disallowed by his Adversary; and if allowed of, the business would have come to a fair and speedy Tryal; or else if he had required this from the Desendant, and disproved of what he had nomi∣nated to decide the difference betwixt them, then might he with credit have endeavoured to de∣stroy such a power; and with the same blow like∣wise the whole Fabrick of the Catholick Religi∣on; for if we do not know whether a line, or a piece of wood be streight or crooked, but by applying a Rule unto it, by which we may be enabled to judg of its st••eightness or crokedness; how can he with any show of reason or justice pretend to write against a setled and antient Re∣ligion, and argue it of falshood, without first proposing something whereby its errours and falshood may be discerned: but this must not be the dead Letter of Scripture; for we know Arrians impugned the Divinity of our Saviour Christ; and with far more plausible Quotations and Texts out of Scripture than he can produce for the Protestant Religion; neither must it be Scripture interpreted by the private spirit, for by that the Quakers would easily defend them∣selves, and oppose all others: from which Hold Protestants are not able to drive them, but by making use of those very arguments which Catho∣licks use against Protestants: nor lastly, must it be any thing that is only probable, conjectural, or uncertain; for the same uncertainty and dan∣ger of erring, or of being false, it hath within it self, the very same must it of necessity have and retain in judging any Controversie, and its judgments or decisions will be equally exposed and

subject to errour; so that to pass sentence be∣twixt two Religions, evincing the one of fal∣shood and the other of truth; there is of neces∣sity required an infallible Rule to go by; a cer∣tain Guide for direction, and unerring Judg to give sentence, without which there can no be infal∣libility or certainty of truth in this Decision. I easily foresee what Mr. S. F. will object against this, that it either equally touches both Parties, or else it doth not at all concern him. For the prevention of which evasion I answer, that he being the Oponent, and undertaking to write against a Religion maintained by its Professours to be infallibly true, cannot in reason seek to overthrow it, unless by arguments and reasons, which are manifest and certainly convincing: who therefore shall be the Judg of this? himself that were unreasonable, unless he will pretend to have the gi••t of infallibility bestowed upon him; he ought therefore to submit them to the examina∣tion and judgment of something infallibly able to judge of them, and determine the business; and if he leaves it to the Catholicks nomination, he might both complain of partiality, and expect to have them retorted upon himself, at least if he will be so daring, it ought to be by his own free election; so that the obligation lies wholly upon himself. Indeed in his Papers he speaks of an infallible Rule, conformable unto which he re∣quires that our Proofs be, and then he will be of our Religion; but to keep himself out of this danger; and because he dares not stand to the judgment and determination of it, being already assured that he shall bring a staff to his own head, and find his Religion to be disagreeable unto it: he tells us not what this infallible Rule is; nor can I

imagine what he means by it, if he will stick to the Protestant Principles, for Scripture alone it cannot be, for the reasons I have given before, Traditions they will not allow of; Councels they reject, and to the Fathers they grant not so much Authority; so that although now and then they pick out some sentences out of them, yet they hold them not at all to be decisive, but take and leave them at their pleasure, just as Mr. S. F hath done in his rejoynder, where he quotes St. Gregory in his 9 hom. upon Ezekiel, for the suffi∣ciency of Scripture; and produces a saying of that holy Father indiscreetly spoken, and making nothing at all for his purpose, as will appear hereafter; and all along never takes notice of the difficulty of understanding it; of which St. Gregory Treats ex professo; nor how he recon∣ciles grace and merit, of both which he dis∣courses at large; the consideration of which if Mr. S. F. had been so disposed, would have clearly convinced him what St. Gregory's belief was in these particulars; and although he hath picked some other sayings out of the same Fa∣ther, which he perswades himself upon the same mistake, will work wonders, yet if he would be but content that he should decide the things in Controversie, and resolve us what his belief was in those particulars, or any thing else that is controverted betwixt us and the Protestants, he would find (as you shall presently see) that even in those places which Mr. S. F. tells you, are evidently opposite to the Catholick Religion, and agreeable to that of the Church of England, that they either make nothing at all for his pur∣pose, or else that they absolutely conclude against him.