The debate at large, between the House of Lords and House of Commons, at the free conference, held in the Painted Chamber, in the session of the convention, anno 1688 relating to the word, abdicated and the vacancy of the throne in the Common's vote.

Sir R—H—d.

My Lords,

The Proceedings and Expressions of the House of Commons in this Vote are fully warranted by the President that hath been cited, and are such as where∣in there has been no interruption of the Government according to the Consti∣tution.

The late King hath, by your Lord∣ships concession, done all those things, which amount to an Abdication of the

Government, and the Throne's being thereby Vacant: And had your Lord∣ships concurred with us, the Kingdom had long e're this been setled, and every body had peaceably followed their own business. Nay, had your Lordships been pleased to express your selves clearly, and not had a mind to speak ambiguously of it, we had saved all this Trouble, and been at an end of Disputing.

Truly, my Lords, this Record that hath been mentioned of Henry the Fourth, I will not say is not a Presi∣dent of Election, for the Arch-Bishop stood up, and looked round on all sides, and asked the Lords and Commons, Whether they would have him to be King; and they asserted, (as the words of the Roll are) That He should Reign over them. And so it is done at every Co∣ronation.

As to his Claim, they did not so much mind that, for they knew that he Claimed by Descent and Inheritance,

when there was a known Person that had a Title before him.

For, that which a Noble Lord spoke of touching the Publick Acts that have been done since the King left us, I may very well say, we think them legally done; and we do not doubt but that Power which brought in another Line then, upon the Vacancy of the Throne by the Leasion of Richard the Second, is still, according to the Constitution, residing in the Lords and Commons, and is legally sufficient to supply the Vacancy that now is.

That Noble Lord indeed said, That your Lordships might not only with the Commons advise the Prince of Orange to take upon him the Administration, and joyn with us in the other things, but that you might have done it of your selves, as being in the absence of the King, the Great Council of the Nation.

My Lords,

I shall not say much to that point, your Lordships Honours Privileges are great, and your Councils very worthy of all Reverence and Respect.

But I would ask this Question of any Noble Lord that is here, Whether, had there been an Heir, to whom the Crown had quietly descended in the Line of Succession, and this Heir certainly known, your Lordships would have as∣sembl'd without his calling, or would have either Administer'd the Govern∣ment your selves, or advised the Prince of Orange to have taken it upon him? I doubt you had been (pardon me to say it) all guilty of High-Treason, by the Laws of England, if a known Suc∣cessor were in possession of the Throne, as he must be if the Throne were not Vacant.

From thence, my Lords, your Lord∣ships see where the Difficulty lyes in this matter, and whence it ariseth, be∣cause

you would not agree the Throne to be Vacant when we know of none that possess it.

We know some such thing hath been pretended to as an Heir Male, of which there are different Opinions, and in the mean time, we are without a Govern∣ment; and, Must we stay till the Truth of the matter be found out? What shall we do to preserve our Constitu∣tion, while we are without a safe or legal Authority to act under the same according to that Constitution, and in a little time it will, perhaps, through the distraction of our Constitution, be utter∣ly irremediable?

I do not deny, but that your Lord∣ships have very great Hardships to conflict with in such a Case, but who is the occasion of them?

We all do know the Monarchy is Hereditary; but how, or what shall we do to find out the Successor in the Right Line?

You think it will be a difficult thing to go upon the Examination who is Heir; perhaps it will be more difficult to Resolve in this Case, than it might be in another: For though heretofore there have been Abdications and Vacan∣cies, it has been where the King has been of the same Religion of the Esta∣blish'd Worship of the Nation; and amongst those that pretended to the Succession, the several Claimers have been Persons born and bred up in that Religion that was Establish'd by Law; or it may be there hath been a Child in the Womb at the time of the Vacancy.

But then, my Lords, there would not be much difficulty to examine, Who should Inherit, or what were fit to be done. I confess, I say, there are Diffi∣culties of all sides, or else your Lord∣ships sure would have spoke out before now: And if you had been clear in it your selves, you would have let the Commons and the World have known

it. But it not being clear, must we al∣ways remain thus? Use what words you will, Fill up, or Nominate, or Elect, it is the thing we are to take care of, and it is high time it were done.

My Lords,

There is no such Consequence to be drawn from this Vote, as an Intention or a Likelihood of altering the Course of the Government, so as to make it Elective, the Throne hath all along de∣scended, in an Hereditary Succession, the main Constitution hath been pre∣served.

The President of Henry the Fourth is not like that of Elections in other Countries; and I am sorry there should be any occasion for what is necessary to be done now.

But when such Difficulties are upon the Nation, that we cannot extricate our selves out of, as to the Lineal Suc∣cessor, your Lordships, I hope, will give

us leave to remember Salus populi est Suprema Lex.

And if neither You nor we can do any thing in this Case, We, who are met under the Notion of an Assembly or Convention of the States, then have met to no purpose; for after we have Voted our selves to be without a Go∣vernment, (which looks as if some∣thing were really intended as to a Set∣tlement) all presently sinks, and we are as much in the dark as we were before.

And, my Lords, I pray give me leave to say one thing more: Your Lordships say, You will never make a President of Election, or take upon you to Alter the Succession.

With your Lordships Favour, the Set∣tlement of the Constitution is the main thing we are to look after. If you pro∣vide for the supply of the Defect there, that point of the Succession will, with∣out all question, in the same method,

and at the same time be surely provided for.

But, my Lords, you will do well to consider; Have not you your selves al∣ready limited the very Succession, and cut off some that might have a Line at Right? Have you not concurred with us in our Vote, That it is inconsistent with our Religion and our Laws to have a Papist to Reign over us? Must we not come then to an Election, if the next Heir be a Papist? Nay, suppose there were no Protestant Heir at all to be found, would not your Lordships then break the Line?

By your Lordships Vote that is so inconsistent, you do suppose a Case of the greatest Consequence that can be, may happen; and if that should hap∣pen to be our Case, that the whole Pro∣testant Line should fail, would not that necessitate an Election, or else we must submit to that which were inconsistent with our Religion and our Laws?

If your Lorships then, in such a Case, must break through the Succes∣sion, I think the Nation has reason to expect you should take care to supply the present Defect, where the Succession is uncertain.

My Lords,

If this should not be agreed unto, what will be the Consequence? We that used, and justly, to boast of li∣ving under the Best of Governments, must be left without any one; for, your Lordships, it seems, cannot agree with us to supply and Fill up this Gap in it, or tell us who is the Successor: And we must not do it our selves by E∣lection; which is the only way left us to provide for our Settlement.

Truly my Lords, upon the whole, I cannot tell what condition we shall be in, or what we can do further; but we must even part, and break up in Confusion, and so leave the Nation to extricate it self, as well as it can, out

of this Distraction. But then, at whose Door that will lye, I must leave to your Lordships own Thoughts.