Klētoi tetērēmēnoi, or, The Saints perseverance asserted in its positive grounds and vindicated from all material exceptions against it occasioned by a late immodest account of two conferences upon that point, between Tho. Danson and Mr. Jer. Ives, published by the said Mr. Ives, which account is also herein rectified, and its falshood detected to the just shame of the publisher / by Tho. Danson.

TO THE READER.

Reader,

IF thou art so judicious, as to see and censure it as a fault in me, to enter the lists with such a person as Mr. Ives, of whom, for the immorality of his Conversation, they are ashamed who agree with him in Opinion. And all Christians by profession have cause to be, for his detestable Arrianism, or denial of the God∣head of Christ, which I am able sufficiently to prove, and of which he hath never (that I know of) declared his Repentance: I willingly sub∣mit my self to thy correction; yet to excuse what I cannot defend, thou mayest please to understand, that through the frequent insolent Challenges of some of his Perswasion, a private Meeting was appointed for a Conference on Febr. 12. 1671. with Mr. Clayton and Mr. Jennings, the for∣mer whereof undertook to defend the mortality of

the Soul; and the latter, the possibility of true Believers falling away totally and finally from Grace. When we were met, Mr. Clayton and Mr. Jennings both refused (though present) to discourse with me: The first, Not assigning any Reason. The second, Alledging his disability by a Cold, and desiring Mr. Ives might be his Sub∣stitute: As to the latter point, whom therefore I admitted, as knowing that should I have refused, the man would have crowed like a Cock on his Dunghill, and his Party would have gone away singing, Io Triumphe. And whereas, accord∣ing to agreement with Mr. Clayton and Mr. Jennings, I was to oppose, Mr. Ives would needs make me respond. And very gravely read his Arguments out of his Papers, which he was so much beholden to, as he could not repeat any one without their assistance. And when he had done, and was desired to change turns, and become Re∣spondent; he complaining of weariness, I was not unwilling to debate the Point once more, be∣cause Regula being index sui, & obliqui, I thought the best mean, for the satisfaction of my Friends, at whose Request I undertook it, were the discussing of the positive grounds of the Saints perseverance. How Mr. Ives demeaned himself, all that know him, though absent, can tell as per∣fectly as they that were present. 'Tis no News to them, that he interrupted me in the midst of a

Sentence, pretending he knew what I was about to say; nor that he made frequent Diversions, by Addresses to the People, many of whom there∣fore call'd often on him to turn about to his An∣tagonist; and told him, He came not to dispute with them, but with Mr. Danson; nor that he would not repeat the Arguments, when he was Respondent, but now and then at his own list; and when he did, would bear me down, and ma∣ny others, Reverend Ministers, and private Chri∣stians, That my Proof was not direct to the Proposition by him denyed; and would often re∣peat them in words quite contrary to mine, and yet out-face us all, that he did his Opponent right. And this indeed was his carriage from first to last, more or less; So that it seems to me, either that he hath not read or not understood or through the freedome of his will, hath disobeyed the Dictates of his understanding. That passage of the Publisher of Hoard's Gods Love to Man∣kind, in the Epistle to the Reader, If any shall use railing Speeches, or unnecessary Diversi∣ons from the Cause, I shall ever interpret that to be a strong sign of a weak Cause; or at least, I shall think it to be an argument of an obstinate mind; who neither knoweth how to yield to the Truth, nor yet to defend his Errour. On the second of March, Mr. Ives wrote a Letter to me (which is since printed) to

give him a meeting, that our Conferences might be published by mutual consent, which I might well have wondered at, had not my own experience assur'd me, that he is more bold then wise; which motion I rejected, as having so mean an Opinion of my own Abilities, as not to think any thing of mine (much less such a rambling Discourse, as through his default that was, which I had with him) worthy of Publick View. Yet hath he published an impartial Account of our Discourses, as he pretends; but whether it be so or no I appeal to the Notes or Memories of the Auditors, from whom I know it had been easie to procure a Testimonial; but that I judged it too great an Honour to such a man as Mr. Ives is known to be, to suppose it probable, that any dis∣creet person should take all he sayes for Gospel. I shall therefore onely request any that judge it worth while, to have satisfaction as to matter of Fact, but to enquire of these Reverend Ministers, (viz.) Mr. Christopher Fowler, Mr. Luffe, Mr. Parsons, Mr. Waddesworth, Mr. Tho. Vincent, Mr. Maddox, Mr. Veal, Mr. Peachy, Mr. Charles Morton, Mr. Carslake, [besides others, whose Names at present occur not] and these sober private Christians, Mr. Summers. Mr. Farthing, Mr. Jeffreys, Inhabitants of Southwark; Mr. Parkhurst, Mr. Anion, Ci∣tizens of London, [with others, too many to

enumerate] who were present at one or both our Discourses. And they will attest how often I was forced to hold my Tongue through his cla∣mour; his stentorian Voice drowning mine, that I could not be heard, when it was my turn to speak, how often he would needs make me father his brats; I mean, acknowledge those words for mine, which indeed were his own, &c. The Publication of our Conferences hath laid me un∣der a kind of necessity of Replying. I say, a kind of necessity, because I have indeed so mo∣dest a confidence of my own Reputation, when put in competition with Mr. Ives's, as that I could, without solicitude about the event, have left the World to its liberty of belief, which of us Two is the Lyar, and have thought silence the fittest Answer. But that which chiefly indueed me to Reply, is the opportunity put into my hands to clear up this Point of Saints perseverence fully and succinctly, in half a dozen Sheets, which none hath done that I know of in our Language; Mr. Pryn hath handled the Argument in a large Quarto, Dr. Kendall and Dr. Owen in Folio. And I intend not to detract from those Authors worth: But I know that the price of those Books hinders the buying; and their Bulk, the reading of them by private Christians, for whose use I intend this Discourse.

I have not given a particular account of all

that was discoursed, but onely of what was Ar∣gumentative; nor indeed hath Mr. Ives, as may easily be judged by the bulk of his Book, compar'd with the time spent in the Conferences, which was no less then three Hours and an half in the first, and four Hours and an half in the second; but instead thereof, hath, with the Bear, licked his Cubs into a better shape then they had at their Birth. And I therefore forbear it, because I judge the World is not like to be a jot the wiser for the knowledge of it, unless the sight of rude∣ness and impertinency in their natural deformity, may deter men from such unmanly Vices. But I have given a true account of all the more mate∣rial Exceptions against the Saints Perseverance, and added divers Arguments for the proof of it, which I had intended to have urged, had not I been prevented. I have also taken notice of the Appendix, and vindicated our Doctrine from the charge of Novelty and Antinomianism.

To conclude, Thou who art a true Believer, canst not chuse but value the Truth here contended for, and esteem it a rich Cordial, to be assur'd, that though thou mayest lose Florem yet thou canst not lose Radicem, i. e. the Flower, not the Root; the sense of Grace, not Grace it self; the Act not the Power: When once thou art a Member of Christ, there may be a benuming that may bin∣der the influence of Blood and Spirits, but so as it

shall never be gangren'd, it shall never die again; There may be a Cloud on you, but the Sun shall never set on you; to borrow the words of that so∣lid practical Divine, Dr. Preston, Of New Creature, Serm. 5. pag. 423. What a woeful case must thou needs be in, if God were onely in∣gaged not to throw thee down; but not to hold thee up. The instances of Man's and Angels de∣fection are too fresh in memory to be denyed; and an argument irrefragable, to evince the possibility of a true Believers Apostacy, if God should be but a Spectator, and not interess himself as a party in the quarrel between him and his spiritual Ad∣versaries. Bless God therefore for the immutable Purposes and Promises of being the finisher of that Faith, whereof he hath been the Author: And if thou reapest any benefit by this Discourse, recompence his pains by thy Prayers, who ac∣counts it his Honour to be

April 15. 1672.

An Helper of thy joy, Tho. Danson.