Treason's master-piece, or, A conference held at Whitehall between Oliver, the late usurper, and a committee of the then pretended Parliament who desired him to take upon him the title of King of England ... : wherein many of the leading-men of those times did, by unanswerable arguments, assert and prove monarchy to be the only legal ancient, and necessary form of government in these kingdoms / collected by a faithful hand.

Thursday the Ninth of April 1657.

ORdered by the Parliament, that a Committee be appointed to wait upon his Highness the Lord Protector, in reference to what his Highness did yesterday propose in his Speech, now re∣ported to the House.

Resolved, That this Committee have power to receive from his Highness his doubts and scruples, touching any of the particulars contained in the humble Petition and Advice formerly presented; and in answer thereun∣to, to offer to his Highness reasons for his satisfaction, and for the maintainance of the Resolutions of this House; and such particulars as they cannot satisfie his Highness in, that they report the same to the Parliament.

The Names of the Committee.

• Lord Whitlock.
• Lord Broghill.
• Master of the Rolls.
• Lord Commissioner Lisle.
• Mr. Waller.
• Lord Chief Justice.
• Sir Charles Woolseley.
• Gen. Montague.
• Col. Jepson.
• Sir Thomas Jones.
• Sir William Strickland.
• Col. Thistlethwait.
• Lord Commissioner Fines.
• Sir Richard Onslow.
• Sir Rich. Lucy.
• Mr. Secretary.
• Atturney of the Dutchy.
• ...Atturney General.
• Mr. Godfrey.
• Lord Howard.

• Col. Jones.
• Col. Carter.
• Col. Whitgrave.
• Col. Brooks.
• Mr. Lee.
• Mr. Jenkinson.
• Mr. Bampfield.
• Mr. Drake.
• Col. Ingoldsby.
• Mr. Pitts.
• Mr. Pickering.
• Lord Cockram.
• Mr. Grove.
• Mr. Lloyd.
• Mr. Nath. Bacon.
• Mr. Ingoldsby.
• Lord Provost of Edenb.
• Mr. Bedfor.
• Col. Ireland.
• Col. Hacker.
• Major Wagstaffe.
• Mr. Franc. Bacon.
• Mr. Downing.
• Mr. Price.
• Maj. Gen. Whaley.
• Sir John Reynolds.
• Mr. Steward.
• Sir Christ. Pack.
• Mr. Lawrence.
• Alderm. Foot.
• Capt. Lilburne.
• Sir William Roberts.
• Mr. Trevor.
• Mr. Baron Parker.
• Mr. Tigh.
• Sir John Hobart.
• Mr. Hamden.
• Mr. Cromwell.
• Mr. Throgmortou.
• Mr. Fleetwood.
• Mr. Philips.
• Maj. Gen. Goffe.
• Mr. Fowell.
• Major Audley.
• Col. Wilton.
• Major Morgan.
• Col. Wood.
• Maj. Gen. Berry.
• Lord Strickland.
• Lord Cleypoole.
• Mr. Barkley.
• Major Burton.
• Mr. Dunch.
• Col. Marckham.
• Major Aston.
• Maj. Gen. Bridges.
• Sir Tho. Rouse.
• Mr. Bond.
• Col. Fowkes.
• Col. Bridges.
• Mr. Moody.
• Col. Grovesnor.
• Mr. Gorges.
• Earl of Tivedale.
• Sir John Weesnes.
• Dr. Dowglas.
• Major Beake.
• Mr. Briscoe.
• Capt. Stone.
• Mr. Lucy.

• Col. Harvey.
• Sir Lislebone Long.
• Mr. Thelwall.
• Sir Edward Roads.
• Sir Francis Norris.
• Col. Sydenham.
• Mr. Rouse.
• Mr. Tromball.
• Mr. Burton.

To meet forthwith in the Speaker's Chamber.

Resolved, That this Committee have Power to ap∣point some of their number to attend his Highness, to desire him to appoint a time when they may wait upon him according to those Votes.

Hen. Scobell Clerk of the Parliament.

The Lord Whitlock, 11 April.

I Only understand, that by Order of the Parliament, this Committee are tied up to receive what your Highness shall be pleased to offer, as to your Doubts or Scruples upon this Paper: The very words of the Or∣der are, That the Committee have Power to attend your Highness, to receive from your Highness your Doubts and Scruples, touching any the particulars contained in the humble Petition and Advice, formerly presented; and in answer there∣unto, to offer to your Highness Reasons for your Satisfaction, and for the maintenance of the Resolutions of the House; and such particulars as we cannot satisfie your Highness in, that we may report the same to the Parliament, what particulars your Highness shall think fit to object.

Your Highness is pleased to mention, the Govern∣ment, as it now is, and seems to some of our apprehen∣sions, as if your Highness did make that an Objection, If the Government be well, why do you change it? If that be intended by your Highness as an Objection in the ge∣neral,

I suppose the Committee will give you satisfa∣ction.

Lord Protector.

SIR, I think that neither you nor I, but meet with a very good heart, to come to some issue of this great business; and truly that is, that I cannot assure you I have all the reason and argument in the world to move me to it, and am exceeding ready to be ordered by you in the way of proceeding, onely I confess according to those thoughts I have, as I have answered my own thoughts in preparing for such a work as this is: I have made this notion of it to my self: That having met you twice, at the Committee first, and returned you that answer that I gave you then; and the House a second time: I do perceive that the favour and the indulgence that the House shews me in this, is, that I might receive satisfaction: I know they might have been positive in the thing, and said they had done enough, if they had onely made such an address to me; they might have in∣sisted upon it, onely to offer it, yet I could plainly see, it was my satisfaction they aimed at; I think really and sincerely, it is my satisfaction that they intend, and true∣ly I think there is one clause in the Paper, that doth a little warrant that, to offer such reasons for his satisfaction, and for the maintainance of the Resolutions of the House.

Now Sir it's true, the occasion of all this, is the answer that I made, that occasions a Committee to come hither, in order to my satisfaction: and truly Sir I doubt (if you will draw out those reasons from me, I will offer them to you, but I doubt on my own part) if you should pro∣ceed that way, it would put me a little out of the method of my own thoughts, and it being mutual satisfaction that is endeavoured, if you will do me the favour, it will more agree with my method; I shall take it as a fa∣vour, if it please you, I will leave you to consider together your own thoughts of it.

Lord Whitlock.

THe Committee that are commanded by the Parlia∣ment, and are here present to wait upon your High∣ness, I do suppose cannot undertake to give the Rea∣sons of the Parliament, for that they have done; but a∣ny Gentleman here can give his own particular appre∣hension for your Highness satisfaction; and if you will be pleased to go in the way which you have propounded, and either in general or in particular to require a satisfacti∣on from the Committee, I suppose we shall be ready to do the best we can to give you satisfaction.

Lord Protector.

I Think if this be so, then I suppose nothing can be said by you, but what the Parliament hath dictated to you, and I think that is clearly exprest, that the Parliament intends satisfaction; then is it as clear, that there must be Reasons and Arguments, that have light and convi∣ction in them, in order to satisfaction.

I speak for my self in this, I hope you will think it no otherwise: I say it doth appear so to me, that you have the liberty of your own reasons; I think if I should write any of them, I cannot call this the Reason of the Parlia∣ment. The Parliament in determinations and conclusi∣ons, by Votes of the several particulars of the Govern∣ment, that Reason is dilated, and diffused, and every man hath a share of it; and therefore when they have de∣termined such a thing, certainly it was reason that led them up into it; and if you shall be pleased to make me partaker of some of that Reason, I do very respect∣fully represent to you, that I have a general dissatis∣faction at the thing; and I do desire that I may be informed in the grounds that lead you, whom I pre∣sume are all satisfied persons to the thing, and every part of it; and if you will be pleased to think so fit, I will not farther urge it upon you: To proceed that way,

it will be a favour to me; otherwise I shall deal plainly with you: It doth put me out of the method of my own conceptions, and then I shall beg that I may have an hours deliberation, that we might meet again in the Afternoon.

Lord Chief-Justice.

THe Parliament sent us to wait upon your Highness, to give your Highness any satisfaction that is in our understandings to give: the whole Paper consists of many Heads, and if your Highness intend satisfaction, the Propositions being general, we can give but general Satisfaction; and therein we are ready, if that be your Highness meaning: I think we shall be ready to give satisfaction, as far as our Understandings.

Lord Protector.

IF you will please to give me leave, I do agree, truely the thing is a general, as it is either falling under the notion of Settlement: that's a general that consists of many particulars; and truely if you call it by that that it is Tituled, there it is general, it is Advice, Desires and Advice; and that (the truth is) that I have made my Ob∣jection in, is but to one thing as yet; only the last time I had the honour to meet the Parliament, I did offer to them, that they would put me into a condition to re∣ceive satisfaction to the particulars: no question I might easily offer something particular for debate, if I thought that that would answer the end; for truely, I know my end and yours is the same, that is, to bring things to an issue one way or other, that we may know where we are, that we may attain that general end, that is, Settlement; the end is in us both, and I durst contend with any one per∣son

in the world, that it is not more in his heart, than in mine. I could go to some particulars to ask a Question, or ask a Reason of the Alteration, which would well enough let you into the business, (that it might) yet I say it doth not answer me: I confess I did not so strictly examine that Order of reference, or whether I read it or no, I cannot tell you; If you will have it that way, I shall (as well as I can) make such an Objection as may occasion some answer to it, though perhaps I shall object weak enough, I shall very freely submit to you.

Lord Chief-Justice.

THe Parliament hath commanded us for that end, to give your Highness satisfaction.

Lord Commissioner Fines.

MAy it please your Highness, Looking upon the Order, I finde that we are impowred to offer any Reasons that we think fit, either for the satisfaction of your Highness, or maintenance of what the Parliament hath given you their advice in; and I think we are rather to offer to your Highness the Reasons of the Parliament, if your Highness Dissatisfaction be to the Alteration of Government in general, or in particular.

Lord Protector.

I Am very ready to say, I have no Dissatisfaction, that it hath pleased the Parliament to finde out a way (though it be of alteration) to bring these Nations into a good Settlement; and perhaps you may have judged the Settlement we were in, was not so much for the great End of Government, the Liberty and Good of

the Nations, and the preservation of all those honest In∣terests that have been engaged in this Cause; I say, I have no exception to the general, that the Parliament hath thought fit to take consideration of a new Settlement, or Government; but you having done it as you have, and made me so far interested in, as to make such an O∣verture to me, I shall be very glad, if you so please to let me know it, that besides the pleasure of the Parliament, may be somewhat of the Reason of the Parliament, for interesting me in this thing, and for making the altera∣tion such as it is: Truly, I think, I shall as to the other particulars swallow this, I shall be very ready to assign particular Objections to clear that to you, that may be either better to clear, or to help me at least to a clearer understanding of the things for better good, for that I know is in your hearts as well as mine. Though I can∣not presume that I have any thing to offer to you, that may convince you: But if you will take in good part, I shall offer somewhat to every particular. If you please, as to the first of the thing, I am clear as to the ground of the thing, being so put to me, as it hath been put; I think that some of the grounds upon which it is done, will very well lead into such Objections or Doubts as I may offer, and will be a very great help to me in it; and if you will have me offer this, or that, or the other doubt that may arise methodically, I shall do it.

Lord Whitlock.

I Am very much assured, that all this company is come with the same Affection and faithful Respect to the Publick Settlement, as your Highness hath pleased to express. For my part, I do with a great deal of Clearness and Faithfulness; and in my particular ap∣prehension,

I conceive that the Method that your High∣ness mentioned to proceed in, we may answer; and if any Gentleman be of another opinion, he will be pleased to correct me in it.

The Parliament taking consideration of the present Government, and the Instrument that doth establish it, seemeth to my apprehension to be of opinion, that it was very fit, there should be some course taken for a Set∣tlement in the Government of the Nation, by the Su∣pream Legislative Power; your Highness and the Par∣liament concurring together in it, they found the In∣strument of Government in the Original and Foundation of it, to require this Settlement by the Supream Legisla∣tive Power, in regard of the Original of the other; which they did, as I apprehended by some Gentlemens Debates upon it, might be an occasion of some doubts, and of less stability, if it were left to continue upon the same foundation it is.

That it will not be so clear a Settlement and Foundation for the Preservation of the Rights and Liberties of the Nation, as if we came to a Set∣tlement by the Supreme Legislative Power; upon that ground it was taken into Consideration, and a Settlement brought to effect, upon very solemn, full, and candid Debates among themselves in Parlia∣ment.

Their Intentions, I suppose, were only these; To pro∣vide for the Safety and Peace of the Nations hereafter, to provide for the Rights and Liberties, both Spiritual and Civil, of the People of these Nations; and in order to make the best provision they could, for these great Concernments of the People, the Petition and Advice which they have humbly presented to your Highness, was brought to a determination by them.

For that particular which your Highness did formerly intimate, when the Parliament did attend upon you, the Committee of the Parliament, and which you are now pleased to intimate, concerning the Title, I do humbly apprehend the grounds of that to be these.

The foundation of that Title of Protector being not known by the Law, being a new Title, it was thought, that the Title which is known by the Law of England for many Ages, many hundred of years together received, and the Law fitted to it, and that to the Law, that it might be of more certainty and clear Establishment, and more conformable to the Laws of the Nation; that that Title should be that of King, rather than that other of Protector. There is very much as to the essence of the business, as some Gentlemen did apprehend; That the Title should be a known Title, that hath been in all these Times and Ages received, and every parti∣cular person hath occasion of knowing of it, and of his Rights applied to it: And likewise of the general Rights of the People and their Liberties, have an appli∣cation to that Name, which application cannot be so clear and so certain to a new Title, the Title of Protector. (Some Gentlemen I heard reason it) that the Title of Protector is only upon the Original and Foundation as it now stands; but the Title of King, besides the Consti∣tutions by which it shall be made, will likewise have a Foundation upon the old and known Laws of the Nation; So that there will be both the present Consti∣tution, and likewise the ancient Foundation of the Laws of England to be the Basis of the Title of King: What Changes of this nature may bring of Inconve∣nience with them, can hardly in every particular be fore∣seen; but it is imagined, that many will be, that possibly we may not be able beforehand to comprehend; but there seems to be more of certainty and stability, and

of the Supream Authority, civil Sanction upon tha Title, than upon the other: This I humbly apprehend to be one reason, concerning both the establishment of the whole; and as to that particular, which I think is the first part of it, your Highness seemed to intimate.

Master of the Rolls.

MAy it please your Highness, I am very glad that there is such a latitude as we may shew our selves here, as I know the Parliament intends to give your Highness all satisfaction as may be: and truly I say upon the first head, which your Highness is pleased to call a Title, as if it were a bare Title, which I must humbly crave par∣don if I do not think, nor the House did not think, but it carries more in it of weight than a meer Title; for upon due consideration you shall find that the whole body of the Law is carried upon this Wheel, it is not a thing that stands on the top meerely, but runs through the whole life and veins of the Law; you cannot almost make any thing, or do any thing; look upon all our Laws ever since we had Laws, look upon all the Con∣stitution, still there is such an interest, not of the Title, but of the name King, besides the Title, (that's not the thing) for the Title you may rather tye it to the per∣son than the thing, but the word King doth signifie the person. Now Sir, we do see in all the ways of our pro∣ceedings in the maintaining of the Rights, Properties and Interests of the people, and of the Prerogative of the chief Magistrate, that the very Office carries on the bu∣siness and not the Title, and yet it must be such a Title too, as implies the Office, and makes the Office suitable to the Law; It's the Office that doth dignifie the person, not the person the Office: I shall crave your Highness pardon if I speak any thing amiss, we see that the very

Office that carries on, and not the Person; yet that Office must have a suitableness. I have observed all along, that we have had many Debates that have arisen in this Na∣tion about the thing, but the ground and reason why they have adhered to this Title, was for the maintenance of their Liberties, not for the change of the Office. I must confess, I do not see that the other Title will do the same thing, that other Title hath no further latitude, nor extent, but the very Instrument, it goes no further, for the very Instrument is the foundation of it; we can finde no further Instrument original: we have had those Names heretofore, but never grounded upon the thing it self, but grounded upon the Office of a King; they had no Office, or Duty to perform, but what was under the Office and Duty of a King, 'tis very true, it is not so now certainly, for you have now a Title upon that founda∣tion that is your Instrument, and it can reach no further, it is a Title that I cannot see, I must confess, but that we have a good Magistrate, and good Officers, but it may extend whither it will, it hath no limit at all; but the Chief Magistrate, if he should prove otherwise, you have no limit by it by any rule of Law that I understand: If you please, give me leave to tell you, the very Instrument does give a foundation to the Title of Protector, I am sure, to cross if he please, the most Fundamental Points that the Law hath. There was a time when a Prince of this Nation (a very late time too) would change this Name, and it was a very slender change; for it was but from the King of England, to the King of Great Britain, and this was presented to the Parliament; it had a Debate of many days, and it was resolved there and settled, that they could not change, there was so much hazard in that change, they knew not but that all their Rights and Liberties might be thereby altered: and when the King saw he could not obtain it of the House, he declared by

Proclamation, that he never intended to take any name upon him, that should put a doubt to the Liberties and Priviledges of Parliament, and caused this Proclamation to be put among the Statutes, I may say it indeed very cunningly to be Printed, and put among the Statutes, (though indeed it was none) and because there was a danger, he laid it down willingly; only (saies he) your Divines in the Pulpits shall pray for me by the Title (King of Great Britain,) and Ambassadours shall make their Address by that name; but your Laws I will not alter the name. In the Parliament there was a question, Whether we should not alter the name of Parliament, and call it, The Representative of the People; but the whole House went upon this ground, that by changing the name of Parliament to a Representative, we did not know how it might change the very course, ground and reason of Parliament: There is a great deal of thing in the very name. I remember a very Honourable Person, now with God, was then very earnest for it, for having this name changed, and he did shew many Reasons for it; but hearing the Debates and Reasons against it, he sat down and was satisfied; I think I may name him, it was my Lord Ireton, who did say he was satisfied, it was not fit to be done at that time. It is a famous Story in every mans mouth heretofore, when there was but a little intention to change the Law, it was a general Resolution given by the Lords, Nolimus Leges Angliae mutare: It's doubted, yea conceived not possible, to annex the Laws and the Title of Protector together; this I must say, we come now with an intention of a perfect Settlement, such as may give safety to the Nation, to your Person, to the People: for indeed, Sir, they are very jealous of their Laws and Liberties, and have bin in all Ages; and though it may not have an intention to do such a thing, yet if you have a doubt, 'tis better and more safe for the Chief Magistrate, to keep that which hath no doubt then.

The Parliament laying their interest and their regard to you together, and giving you this advice, this is Vox populi, for it is the voice of Three Nations in one Parlia∣ment. Upon publick interest the chief thing is the safe∣ty of the people; that safety, your will, your judgment, nay, give me leave to tell you, your Conscience is bound to it, for it is the principal end of Government and Governours: this is presented to you by Three Nations, by the Parliament, although you may make your hesi∣tations, yet such a thing of great weight and conse∣quence: I know this, that what I have said may seem to imply as if we should fall upon a point: By the Laws I can say in all Generations, this is mine, and this is the Princes, and the Prince cannot do me wrong, nor the Council do me wrong, &c. Therefore I think you may safely, and I hope will agree to this particular, as we have presented it: I dare not say that your Highness (as it comes as advice from Parliament) ought to do so.

The Lord Protector.

I Cannot deny but the things that have been spoken, have been spoken with a great deal of weight, and it is not fit for me to ask of any of you, if you have a mind to speak farther of this; but if it had been so their pleasure, truly then I think it would have put me in ac∣cording to the method and way I have conceived to my self, to the more preparedness to have return'd some answer: and if it had not been to you a trouble, I am sure the business requires it from any man in the world, if he were in any case, much more from me, to make serious and true answers, I mean such as are not feigned in my own thoughts, but such wherein I express the truth and honesty of my heart; I mean that by true answers, I did hope, that when I had heard you so far

as it is in your pleasure to speak to this head, I should have then (taking some short notice as I did) have been in a condition this afternoon, if it had not been a trouble to you, to have returned my answer upon a little advisement with my self; but seeing you have not thought it convenient to proceed this way, truly I think I may very well say, that I had need have a little thoughts of the thing to return an answer to it, lest your debate should end on my part, with a very vain discourse, and with lightness, which it is very like to do: I say there∣fore, if you think to proceed farther to speak to these things, I should have made my own short Adnimadver∣sions on the whole this afternoon, and made some short reply; and this would have ushered me in, not onely to have given the best answer I could, but to have made my own objections.

Lord Chief Justice.

SInce it is your Highness pleasure, that it should be spoken now altogether, by those that have any thing to say: I think it will be the intent of the Committee and the Parliament, to give your Highness satisfaction in all particulars, both substance and circumstance: I confess I waited for objections from your Highness, that being the principal scope of the Order: Truly my Lord, I stand up with no confidence that I can add any thing to what hath been said; but because it pleases your High∣ness to do us the great favour to put us to particu∣lars, I think the question before you is but singly thus: I am already Protector, and I have that Office put to the Government, whereby we meet the Parliament now: we desire you to take upon you the Office of King; why do you so?

That which we are to speak here, is no other, but that

which we can understand was the sense of the Parlia∣ment, in justification of what they have done: I shall not speak any thing of the Government it self, but to this particular; I think the Office of a King is a lawful Office, and the Title too, approved of by the Word of God, that's plain. It is plain likewise, it is an Office that hath been exercised in this Nation from the time it hath been a Nation: And I think it is as true, that there never was any quarrel with the Office, but the Male-administration, that I can remember, about the ill Go∣vernment; Oftentimes Kings have been blamed, and very justly, for their ill Government, but we do not read that there was any Challenge by the Parliament, that this Government we desire to be discharged of: If that be true, it is to me a strange ground, having past the scrutiny of so many Parliaments, where they did debate de re, that in all these Debates they did not charge it upon the Nation, that the place is a burthen in its own nature, and this too, when Parliaments have had opportunity to have changed the Government. The name of KING is a name known by the Law, and the Parliament doth desire, that your Highness would assume that Title; these are the Grounds why the Parliament make it their humble Advice and Request to your High∣ness that you would be pleased to assume that Title, and I think there is something more in it: You are now Lord Protector of the Three Nations, by the Instrument, and there is a Clause of this Government, that you should govern according to Law, and your Highness is sworn to that Government: The Parliament doth apprehend that it is almost impossible for your Highness to answer the expectation of the People, to be governed by the Laws, and yet you are so tied up, that neither they can ra∣tionally call for it, nor you conscientiously do it, and so there is neither Lord Protector, nor the People, upon a sure

establishment, for there stands the case: A King hath run through so many Ages in this Nation, and hath Go∣verned the Nation by that Title and Stile, that it is known to the Law; for the Law of the Nation is no o∣therwise, than what hath been a custom to be practised, as is approved by the people to be good; that's the Law and nothing else, excepting Acts of Parliament; and now they have been Governed by that Title, and by that Minister, and by that Office. If so be your Highness should do any Act, and one should come and say, My Lord Protector, why are you sworn to Govern by the Law, and you do thus and thus, as you are Lord Pro∣tector, do I? why, how am I bound to do? why, the King could not have done so, why, but I am not King, I am not bound to do as the King, I am Lord Protector; shew me that the Law doth require me to do it as Pro∣tector, if I have not acted as Protector: shew me where the Law is, why you put any one to a stumble in that case: this is one thing that I humbly conceive did stick in the Parliament as to that particular. Another thing is this, you are Protector, which is a new Office not known to the Law, and made out of doors: you are call'd upon, that you would be pleased to accept that Office of a King, that is, by the whole people: It's the first Government that since these troubles hath been tendred, by a general and universal consent of the people. Another thing is this, if any should find fault with them, and say, why, how came you to make Go∣vernments in this case? why, the answer is, we are a Par∣liament, and have your suffrage, you have ever trusted us with all your Votes, and we will justifie it: but besides, we have not done it neither; we have but setled it up∣on the old Foundations, then the Kingship; however some may pretend, a King's Prerogative is so large, that we know it not, it is not bounded; but the Parliament

are not of that opinion. The Kings Prerogative is known by Law, he did expatiate it beyond the duty; that's the evil of the man: but in Westminster-Hall the Kings Prerogative was under the Courts of Justice, and is bounded as well as any Acre of Land, or any thing a man hath, as much as any controversie between party and party: And therefore the Office being lawful in its nature, known to the Nation, certain in it self, and confined and regulated by the Law, and the other Of∣fice being not so, that was a great ground of the reason why the Parliament did so much insist upon this Office and Title, not as circumstantial, but as essential; yea, it is the head from whence all the Nerves and Sinews of the Government do proceed, as was well said by the Master of the Rolls: If we put a new head, its a question whe∣ther those Nerves and Sinews will grow, and be nourish∣ed and strengthned with that head. I had something in my thoughts which I had forgot; something of an ob∣jection. Why are you so pertinacious, or insist so much upon this Title? you may not apply all the Powers and Authorities unto the Office of Protector, and then you will give satisfaction: I must needs say, he that makes this objection, makes it but meerely but a Name. If any shall say, I am content the Protector shall have the Office, but not the Name, I think this man is very strait laced; then he puts it meerly upon the word, and truly if there be no more in it, if there be nothing but that word, you have in the ballance with it the desires of the Par∣liament, I beseech you do not break with your Parlia∣ment for a word. Another objection is, we have been under the Protector, and the Judges have taken their Of∣fice under that Government, and the Judges have taken their measure by the Authority of the King, and have taken it to be the same with that of King, and so go on. I confess that the Judges have gone very far that way,

and I may not speak my own opinion of this case in this place, but yet it is very well known that there hath been variety of opinions and judgments in this case, even from those that have been Judges of the Nation, and I do not take the people upon a very good esta∣blishment, when there shall be no doubtings in those that should be best knowing. I would never make a doubt that tends to the shaking of foundations, if I should avoid it. The taking of this Office will avoid a doubt, the continuing of the other Office may be more uncertain: I would never make a doubt where it may be dear: perhaps the taking of the other would reduce men to satisfaction; there is but a perhaps in the one, and a certainty in the other.

11 Of April, Sir Charles Woolesley.

NOt onely we that are here, but many honest hearts in England, rejoyce to see this day, wherein your Highness and the Parliament are with so much near∣ness and affection debating the settlement of the Na∣tion. One reason why your Highness should take this title offered you by the Parliament, is, because as you stand in relation to the old Government you are obli∣ged to the Law, yet have not the advantage of the Law, which the chief Magistrate ought to have. The Law knows not a Protector, and requires no obedience from the people to him. The Parliament desires to settle one so, that the people may know your duty to them, and they their duty to you. The Parliament find the minds of the people of these Nations much set upon this Office and Title: God hath by his providence put a general desire of it in the Nation, and they think in things not unlawful they ought

to hearken, and to be much inclined by the desires of them that sent them, and in such things as are for their good, as this is; to be much provoked thereby to the doing of them.

Truly Sir, it hath been much in the thoughts of the Parliament, that the reason why things of late have been so unsetled throughout in the Nations, hath been be∣cause, that to the body of this people, there hath not been a legal head: The well-being of the head, is not more necessary to the wholsome constitution of the body natural, than a right head is necessary to the bo∣dy politick. I may humbly tell your Highness, this Nation hath ever been a lover of Monarchy, and of Mo∣narchy under the Title of a King: the Name and Office hath for above a thousand years been in this Nation: though they have often changed their Princes, yet ne∣ver the Name nor Office. 'Tis the great Common Law, that is the Custome of the Nation, approved good by many ages, to have the Office and Name of a King: no new Law that makes any other, can have that validity, which the Custom of so many ages hath. Sir, the Par∣liament doth judge the safety of your person much con∣cerned to take this Title; and 'tis not your self they look to (though their hearts are full of honour I may say it to your Highness as can be) but to you as chief Magistrate, representing the people, and being head of the Law, and all Magistracy; the people hath a share and concernment in you: We see this hath been the great encouragements of these attempts against your person, that the Law did not take notice of you as chief Magistrate, and that Juries were generally backward to find any guilty for Treason, for attempting against you: the Parliament cannot think it fit, to have their chief Magistrate in such a condition. Your Highness hath been pleased to call your self (as when you speak

to the Parliament) a servant, you are so indeed to the people, and 'tis your greatest honour so to be. I hope then Sir, you will give the people leave to name their own servant, that is a due you cannot, you will not certainly deny them: their Representatives desire you will serve the People under this Title, and were there no other reason, therefore it is the best. I beseech your Highness consider, if you should refuse this Title the Parliament presents you with, you do not only deny your self the honour they put upon you, but you de∣ny the Nation, you deny the people their honour, which by right they ought to have. 'Tis the honour and their just birth-right, to have a Supream Magistrate with the Title of a King. I know Sir, though you can deny your self, yet you will not deny the Nation their due, when their Representative challenge it from you. The Parliament have highly engaged all the good peo∣ple of this Nation, to make you who are one of them, (and have been in these troubles their Head and Leader) to be their King. And certainly Sir, whatever dissatis∣faction may be in this case, it ought not to weigh: if there be any Judge on Earth of the peoples good, 'tis the whole people represented together, and what others say, it is but by individuals. Sir, the Parliament have hundreds, nay thousands upon their backs, the good people of the Nation, a quiet peaceable people, with you, and what the Parliament shall judge fit, is their du∣ty, and no doubt they will submit: Sir, were there in this matter no other reason why you should accept this, I know this alone, which indeed is the greatest reason I can give, would sway you above any thing, that what is before you is the advice of your great Coun∣cil the Parliament.

Lord Commissioner Fines.

I Shall offer what I conceive from their debates to be the reasons why they advise your Highness to this Title; and seeing what is in the fountain must be con∣veyed by such pipes, I shall clear the state of the Que∣stion: In the first place, if I mistake not, is onely up∣on name, not upon any thing, not upon the Office of a King, but upon the Title of a King, for the question is, whether the same thing shall be signified by the Of∣fice of a King, under the name of a King; or by the Office of a King, under the name of a Protector. Undoubt∣edly the Office of a King may be more exercised under another name, than it may if the powers be not Kingly, though the name be there; he that said he would not do his Masters will, and yet did it, did it more than he that said he would, and yet did it not: he that hath all the Powers and Authorities of a King, is a King, though he have not the Name. Either there must be a diversity and for any thing that may difference it by the name it self: truly Sir, either this must be done, you must enumerate all the powers of Protector, or what is left enumerated must be the same thing as the Law says is the duty of a King, and this I think the Judges have determined, this being the clear state of the question, the difference will arise meerly upon a name, and the Parliament did not think it agreeable to their wisdome for them to look upon all the Laws and all the Cases, and make the name of Protector to suit them, or else leave it lawless and boundless, but what was not confined to the power of a King, was confined to the decision of the Law. That being so, the Parliament thinks it is fit for them to do as all wise men do, in making names, they give out names according to the nature of the thing, and either they must fit all the Laws to the name, and that is impossible, or leave the

name unbounded, and that's intolerable. All, creatures were brought to Adam to give them names, he gave them according to their Natures. And so the Parliament considers what the thing is that they were about to ad∣vise your Lordship to; the Parliament finde this to be the same Government as was before, and if they would have that, why not their old Name? If the thing why not the Title? Truely, it seems very reasonable, that names should be proportioned to the thing; they have found divers Reasons why the name should be King, because it is a thing clear to all the world, that the people are more willingly obedient to old Things and Names than to new; and so far as old things can be retained without danger or inconvenience, it is the Wisdome and Duty of all Governours to retain them. I remember in the Sto∣ries of our Wars with the French, Edw. 3. had assistance from Flanders. One thing more of the name of the Protector be considered within my relation to the Laws of this Land: Every one knows it does not relate to him that hath the chief Magistracy, but as he was Tutor or Guardian to another, that's all the Legal Notion or use of the name Protector in this Land; and the holding this name, doth hold forth a gap of apprehension and expe∣ctation, that there may be a change; these are in sub∣stance that which I can remember of the Debates of the Parliament.

Lord Com. Lisle.

I Humbly conceive, that in this Title offered to your Highness by the Parliament, they do take the same care for your Highness, as Jethro took for Moses, they finde the weight of the Government, as it is now upon you, under the title Protector, is a burthen, that will weary both your self and the people likewise; and therefore they do desire your Highness will be pleased to accept of that Title, that may be an ease to your Highness

and to the people, the greatest weight and burthen of government, is when there is a jealousie between the Prince and the people for want of a right understand∣ing, though neither Parliament nor people have a jea∣lousie of your person, yet of the Title they have, for want of a right understanding: But if your Highness will be pleased to accept of the Title that is now offered, all jea∣lousies will be done away, for they will then understand what you are, and truly Sir I think the jealousie will be higher now, then at first when the remonstrance was offered to you: For the Title of Protector is either the same thing in power with the Title of King, or it is some∣thing else. If it be something else, then what the Title of King is when it is confined, and that will raise their jea∣lousie very much. If it be the same thing, then there is nothing of difference, but a name, and they will think there is more than a name, if the Parliament do offer it to your Highness, and your Highness should wave it.

Sir, the Parliament did think that your Highness was never able to provide to do justice to the Nation for the present, nor that peace should be maintained in the Nation for the future, unless your Highness accept of this Title. National Justice does consist in two things, that you do right to the people with relation to their just rights in relation to the Parliament, That you do right to the people in relation to their just rights ac∣cording to the Law of the Land. Sir, the Nations rights in Parliament can never be done to the people, unless the Parliament hath its ancient right in relation to the Government: and they can never have their right in rela∣tion to the Law, unless the Laws have their ancient right in relation to the Governours. Sir, the reason why the Parliament doth now offer it, as I conceive is this, Sir, they did consider the case of David, it was the proper Title to offer the Title to King David, when the Elders of

Israel and the people did Covenant with King David at Hebron. The Remonstrance offered to your Highness is the Covenant of the Three Nations, both for Spiritual and Civil Liberties. If there was a proper time to make David King, when they Covenanted with him at Hebron, it is now a proper time for you to accept this Title, when the Parliament hath brought this with a Covenant for the Three Nations, that relates both to their civil and Spiritual Liberties.

Lord Broghill.

SIR, I can add so little to what hath been already spoken, that were it not in obedience to command, I should with much more satisfaction be silent then now speak: but being under an obligation, I may not vio∣late, I shall in obedience thereof, presume to lay my poor thoughts before you; but first I shall take the boldness to say, I believe it is a thing impossible for any to par∣ticularize every individual reason, which invites a Parliament to pass any Vote; for the Parliament is a body consisting of many Members, and all of them re∣lish those arguments and reasonings, which are most consonant to every mans apprehension, in which there is so great variety, that though when a Vote is past, we may conclude that Vote is the sense of the House, yet we cannot say, that these, and none but these reasons pro∣duced that result: I onely mention this Sir, that what∣ever I shall speak may be considered by you, but as my poor apprehension; what in some degree might have con∣tributed to move the Parliament to petition, and advise your Highness to assume the Title and Office of King: for it would be too high a presumption in any Member, espe∣cially in me above any, to dare aver that what I should now say, did only invite the Parliament to give your

Highness that Counsel, having thus humbly premised what I held my self obliged unto in duty, I shall now proceed to acquaint you what in my weak judgment did in some measure move the Parliament to do what they have done.

First, I humbly conceive, that the Title of King is that which the Law takes notice of, as the Title of Supream Magistrate, and no other, and that the old foundations that are good, are better than any new ones, though e∣qually good in their own nature; what is confirmed by time and experience, carries along with it the best Trial, and the most satisfactory stamp and authority.

Secondly, It was considered too, that it was much bet∣ter that the Supreme Magistrate should be fitted to the Laws that are in being, than that those Laws should be fitted unto him.

Thirdly, The people legally assembled in Parliament having considered of what Title was best for the supreme Magistrate, did after a solemn debate thereof pitch upon that of King, it being that by which the people knew their duty to him, and he the duty of his Office to∣wards them, and both by old and known Laws.

Fourthly, There is hardly any who own Government at all in these Nations, but think themselves obliged to obey the old Laws, or those which your Highness and the Parliament shall enact. So that if the Supream Magistrate of these Three Nations be intituled King, all those who reverence the old Laws, will obediently and chearfully accept of him, as that which is setled upon the establish∣ment they own; and all that own this present authority will do the like, because grafted by it, by which none can rest unsatisfied that think it a duty to obey former Authorities or the present.

Fifthly, The former Authorities know no Supream Ma∣gistrate, but by the Title of King, and this present Authority

desires to know him by no other; which if refused, might it not too much heighten our enemies, who may boulster up their faint hopes, with saying to one another, and to those which assist them, that their chief is not onely un∣der that Title which all past Parliaments have approved, but under that Title which even this Parliament does ap∣prove likewise; and that your head is not known by the former Laws, and has refused to be known by that ap∣plication which even the Parliament, that he himself hath called, doth desire to know him by?

Sixthly, By your Highness bearing the Title of King, all those that obey and serve you, are secured by a Law made long before any of our differences had a being, in the 11th Hen. 7. where a full provision is made for the safety of those that shall serve who ever is King: 'tis by that Law that hitherto our enemies have pleaded indem∣nity, and by your assuming what is now desired, that Law which hitherto they pretended for their disobedience, tyes them even by their own profession and principles to obedience: and I hope taking off all pretences from so numerous a party, may not be a thing unworthy consideration; That the Law seems very rational, for it doth not provide for any particular family or person, but for the peace and safety of the people by obeying whoever is in that Office, and bears that Title. The end of all Government is to give the people justice, and safety and the best means to obtain that end, is to settle a Supream Magistrate; it would therefore seem very irrational, that the people having obtained the end, should decline that end onely to follow the means, which is but conducing to that end; so that if the Title and Office of King be vest∣ed in your Highness, and that thereby the people enjoy their rights and peace, it would be little less than madness, for any of them to cast off those blessings, onely in order to obtain the same end under another person.

Seventhly, there is at present but a divorce be∣tween the pretending King and Imperial Crown of these Nations, and we know that persons divorc'd may marry again; but if the person be married to another, it cuts off all hope. These may be some of those reasons, which invited the Parliament to make that desire, and give that advice to your Highness of assuming the Ti∣tle of King. There is another, and a very strong one, which is, that now they have actually given you that ad∣vice; and the advices of the Parliaments, are things which always ought, and therefore I am confident will carry with them very great force and Authority: nor doth this advice come singly, but accompanied with many o∣ther excellent things, in reference to our civil and spi∣ritual Liberties, which your Highness hath born a just and signal testimony to. It is also a Parliament, who have given unquestionable proofs of their affection to your Highness, and who if listned to in this particular, will be thereby encouraged to give you more.

Lord Protector.

I Have very little to say to you at this time, I confess I shall never be willing to deny, or defer those things that come from the Parliament to the Supream Magi∣strate, if they come in the bare and naked Authority of such an Assembly as known by that name, and are really the representation of so many people, as a Parlia∣ment of England, Scotland, and Ireland is: I say it ought to have its weight, and it hath so, and ever will have with me. In all things a man is free in to answer desires, as coming from Parliaments: I may say that, but in as much as the Parliament hath been pleased to condescend to me so far, to do me this honour, a very great one added to the rest, to give me the advantage of so many mem∣bers of theirs, so able, so understanding the grounds of things; It is I say, a very singular honour and favour to

to me; and I confess, I wish I may, and I hope I shall do that becomes an honest man to do, in giving an answer to these things, according to the desire, that either I have, or God shall give me, or I may be help∣ed by reasoning with you into; and I did not indeed in vain alledge Conscience to the first answer I gave, but I must say, I must be a very unworthy person, to receive such favour, if I should prevaricate, when I said things did stick upon my Conscience, which I must still say they do; onely I must say, I am in the best way that I can be for information, I shall gladly receive it. Here hath been divers things spoken by you to day, with a great deal of judgment and ability, and knowledge; and I think the things, or the arguments, or reasonings that have been used, have been upon these three ac∣compts: to speak to the thing simply, or in the ab∣stract notion of the Title, and the positive reasons up∣on which it stands, and then comparatively, both in the thing, and in the foundation of it, which, what it is to shew the goodness of it comparatively. It is alledged to be so much better than what is, and that is so much short of doing the work that this will do: and thirdly, some things have been said by way of precaution, upon Arguments that are little from the thing, in the nature of it, but are considerations from the Temper of the peo∣ple of the Nation, what will gratifie them, which is sure∣ly considerable; as a;lso by way of anticipation of me, in my answer, by speaking to some objections that others have made against this thing: These are things in themselves each of them considerable, to answer to objections; I know it is a very weighty thing, and to make objecti∣ons is very easie, and that will fall to my part, and I am sure I shall if I make them to men that know so well how to answer them, because they have in part received them from others, upon the debates already had; but

upon the whole matter, I having as well as I could ta∣ken these things that have been spoken, which truely are to be acknowledged by me to be very learnedly spoken, I hope therefore you will give me a little time to consider of them, when it may be your best time for me to return to you, to meet you again, I shall leave that to your consideration.

Lord Whitlock.

Your Highness will be pleased to appoint your own time.

Lord Protector.

On Munday at Nine of the clock, I will be ready to wait upon you.

His Highness Answer at the Conference at the Committee at Whitehal, April 13. 1657.

My Lord,

I Think I have a very hard task upon my head, though it be but to give an account of my self, yet I see I am beset on all hands here: I say but to give an account of my self, but it is in a business that is very compre∣hensive of others in some sence to us, and, as the Parlia∣ment have been pleased to make it, all the interests of these three Nations.

I confess, I consider two things: first to return some very answer to the things that were so ably and well said the other day, on behalf of the Parliaments put∣ting that Title in the Instrument of settlement, I hope it will not be expected that I should answer to every thing that was then said, because I suppose the main things that were spoken, were arguments from antient Constitutions, and settlement by the Laws, of which I am sure I could never be well skill'd, and therefore must ask the more pardon in what I have transgressed in my pra∣ctice, or shall now transgress through my ignorance of them in my answer to you.

Your Arguments which I say were chiefly upon the Law, seems to carry with them a great deal of necessary conclusion, to inforce that one thing of Kingship; and if your argument come upon me to inforce upon the ground of necessity, why then I have no room to an∣swer, for what must be, must be, and therefore I did reck∣on it much of my business to consider whether there were such a necessity, or would arise such a necessity from those arguments.

It was said, that Kingship is not a Title but an Office, so interwoven with the Fundamental Laws of this Na∣tion, as if they could not, or well could not be execu∣ted and exercised without, partly (if I may say so) up∣on a supposed ignorance of the Law that it hath of any other Title, it knows no other, neither doth any other know it, the reciprocation is said this Title, or Name, or Office, as you please to say is understood in the dimensi∣ons of it, in the power and prerogatives of it, which are by the Law made certain, and the Law can tell when it keeps within compass, and when it exceeds its limits, and the Law knowing this, the people can know it also, and people do love what they know, and it will noither be pro salute populi, nor for our safety to obtrude upon them names that they do not! nor cannot under∣stand.

It is said also, that the people have been always by their Representatives in Parliament, willing to vary names for as much as hath been said before they love settlement. And there were two good instances given of that, the one in King James his time, about his desire to al∣ter somewhat of the Title, and another in the long Parlia∣ment, wherein they being otherwise rationally moved to admit of the word Representative instead of Parliament, they refused it for the same reason. It hath been said also, that the holding to this word doth strengthen the

settlement, because it doth not any thing de novo, but resolves things in their old currant: It is said, it is the security of the chief Magistrate, and that it secures all that act under him; truly these are the principles of those grounds that were offered the last day, so far as I do recollect. I cannot take upon me to refel those grounds, for they are so strong and rational, but if I shall be able to make any answer to them, I must not grant that they are necessarily concluding, but take them only as arguments, that they have perhaps much of conveniency, and probability towards concluding; for if a remedy or expedient may be found that they are not necessary, they are not inevitable grounds, and if not necessary, and concluding, why then they will hang upon the reason of expediency, or conveniency; and if so, I shall have a little liberty, otherwise I am concluded before I speak, and therefore it will behoove me to say what I have, why they are not necessary con∣clusions, not that they are, nor that it is (I should say) so interwoven in the Laws, but that the Laws may not possibly be executed to equal to justice and equal satis∣faction of the people, and equally to answer all obje∣ctions as well without it, as with it; and then when I have done that, I shall onely take the liberty to say a word or two for my own grounds, and when I have said what I can say as to that, I hope you will think a great deal more then I say.

Truly though Kingship be not a Title but a name of Office that runs through the Law, yet it is not so ratione nominis, but from what is signified, it is a name of Of∣fice plainly implying a Supream Authority, is it more, or can it be stretcht to more? I say it is a name of Of∣fice plainly implying the Supream Authority; and if it be so, why then I would suppose, (I am not perempto∣ry in any thing that is matter of deduction or in∣ference

of my own.) Why then I should suppose that whatsoever name hath been or shall be the name, in which the Supream Authority shall act, why, (I say) if it had been those, four or five Letters; or whatsoever, or whatsoever else it had been, that signification goes to the thing, certainly it does, and not to the name, why then there can be no more said, but this, why this hath been fixt, so it may have been unfixt, and certainly in the right of the Authority, I mean as a legislative pow∣er, in the right of the legislative power. I think the Au∣thority that could Christen it with such a name, could have called it by another name, and therefore it was but derived from that. And certainly they had the disposal of it, and might have had it, they might have detracted, or changed; and I hope it will be no offence to you, to say (as the case now stands) so may you; and if it be so that you may, why then I say, there is nothing of neces∣sity in your Argument, but consideration of expedience of it, I had rather (if I were to chuse) if it were the na∣tural question, which I hope is altogether out of the question. But I had rather have any name from this Parliament than any name without it, so much do I value the Authority of the Parliament, and I believe all men are of my mind, in that I believe the Nation is very much of my mind, though that be an uncertain way of arguing what mind they are of. I think we may say it without offence, (for I would give none) though the Parliament be the truest way to know what the mind of the Nation is, yet if the Parliament will be pleased to give me a liberty to reason for my self, and that that be made one Argument, I hope I may urge against that, else I can freely give a reason of my own mind, but I say undoubtingly (let us think what we will) what the Parliament settles in that which will run through the Law, and will lead the thread of Government through

the Land, as well as what hath been, considering that what hath been upon the same account, save that there hath been some long continuance of the thing, it is but upon the same account, it had its original somewhere, and it was in consent of the whole, there was the origi∣nal of it; and consent of the whole, will I say be the needle that will lead the thread through all, and I think no man will pretend right against it, or wrong: and (if so) then under favour to me, I think all those arguments from the Law are (as I said before) not neces∣sary, but are to be understood upon the account of conveniency, it is in your power to dispose and settle, and before we can have confidence that what you do settle, will be as authentick as those things that were before, (especially as to the individual thing) the name or Title upon Parliamentary account, upon Parliamen∣tary, why then I say there will be way made (with leave) for me to offer a reason or two, to all that hath else been said, otherwise I say my mouth is stopt: there are very many inforcements to carry on this thing, I sup∣pose it will stand upon a way of expedience and fitness, truly I should have urged one consideration more that I had forgotten, and that is, not onely to urge the things for reason, but for experience, perhaps it is a short one, but it is a true one, (under favour) and is known to you all in the fact of it (under favour) although there hath been no Parliamentary declarations, that the Suprcam Authority going in another name, and under another Title, than King; why it hath been complyed with twice without it. That is, under the Custodes Libertatis Ang∣liae, it hath since I exercised the place, and truly I may say that almost universal obedience hath been given to all the ranks and sorts of men to both, and to be∣gin with the highest degree of Magistracy at the first alteration, and when that was the name, and though it

was the name of an invisible thing, yet the very name (though a new name) was obeyed, did pass for currant, and was received, and did carry on the justice of the Nation. I remember very well that my Lords the Judges were somewhat startled, and yet upon consideration (if I mistake not) I believe so, there being of them without reflection, as able and as learned as have sat there (though they did I confess at first demur a little) yet they did receive satisfaction, and did act as I said before. I profess it, for my own part, I think I may say it, since the beginning of that change, I would be loath to speak any thing vainly, but since the beginning of that change unto this day, I do not think in so many years those that were called, (and worthily so accounted) Halcyon days of peace in 20 Eliz. and King James, and King Charles time: I do not think, but that the Laws did proceed with as much freedom and justice, with less pri∣vate sollicitation either from that that was called then so, or since I came to the Government; I do not think (un∣der favour) that the Laws have had a more free exer∣cise, more uninterrupted by any hand of power, the Judge less solicited by Letters or private interpositions either of my own or other mens, in double so many years in all those times of peace: and if more of my Lords the Judges were here than now are, they could tell what to say to what had been done since, and therefore I say (un∣der favour) these two experiences do manifestly shew, that it is not a Title, though so interwoven with the Laws, that makes the Law to have its free passage and do its office without interruption, (as we think) but that if a Parliament shall determine that another Name shall run through the Laws, I believe it may run with as free a passage as this: which is all that I have to say upon that head.

And if this be so, then truly other things may fall

under a more indifferent consideration, and then I shall arrive at some issue to answer for my self in this great matter, and all this while nothing that I shall say doth any way determine against my resolution, or thoughts against the Parliament, but really and honestly, and plainly, considering what is fit for me to answer. The Parliament desires to have this Title, it hath stuck with me and yet doth stick, and truly although I hinted the other day, that it is thought that your argu∣ments to me did partly give positive grounds for what was to be done, and comparative grounds, saying that which you were pleased to do, and I gave no cause for that I know of, that is to compare the ef∣fects of Kingship with such a name as I for the present bear with Protectorship, I say I hope it will not be un∣derstood, that I do contend for the name or any name or any thing, but truly and plainly (if I speak as in the Lords presence) I in all things right as a person under the disposition of the providence of God, neither naming one thing nor other, but only answering to this Name or Title; for I hope I do not desire to give a rule to any body, because I have professed I have not been able, and I have said truly I have not been able to give one to my self, but I would be un∣derstood in this, I am a man standing in the place I am in, which place I undertook not so much out of the hope of doing any good, as out of a desire to prevent mischief and evil which I did see was eminent in the Nation. I say we were running headlong in∣to confusion and disorder, and would necessarily run into blood, and I was passive to those that desired me to undertake the place which now I have, I say not so much of doing good, which a man may lawful∣ly, if he deal deliberately with God and his own Con∣science, a man may, I say, lawfully if he deal delibe∣rately

with God and his own Conscience, a man may lawfully, as the case may be (though the case is very tickle) desire a great place to do good in. I profess I had not that apprehension when I undertook the place that I could do much good, but I did think that I might prevent eminent evil, and therefore I am not contending for one name compared with another, and therefore have nothing to answer to any argu∣ments, that were used in giving preference to King∣ship or Protectorship, for I should almost think that any name were better than my name, and I should al∣together think, any person fitter than I am, for any such business: and I complement not (God knows it) but this I should say, that I do think from my very heat, that in your setling of the peace and liber∣ties of this Nation, which cries as loud upon you as e∣ver Nation did; for somewhat that may beget a consi∣stance: otherwise the Nation will fall to pieces, and in that as far as I can, I am ready to serve not as a King, but as Constable, for truely I have, as before God, thought it often, that I could not tell what my business was, nor what I was in the place I stood, save comparing it with a good Constable, to keep the peace of the Pa∣rish, and truly this hath been my content and satisfaction in the troubles that I have undergone, that yet you have peace, why now truly (if I may advise) I wish to God you may but be so happy as to keep peace still if you cannot attain to these perfections, as to do this, I wish to God we may have peace, (that do I) but the fruits of Righteousness are shown in meekness, (a better thing than we are aware of) I say therefore I do judge for my self, there is no such necessity of the thing, for the other names may do as well, I judge for my self, I must say a little, I think I have somewhat of Conscience to answer as to this matter, why I cannot undertake this Name, why

truly I must needs go a little out of the way to come to my reasons, and you will be able to judge of them, when I have told you them; and I shall deal seriously, as be∣fore God; if you do not all of you, I am sure some of you do, and it behoves me to say, I know my calling from the first to this day: I was a person that from my first employment was suddenly preferred and lifted up from lesser trusts to greater, from my first being a Captain of a Troop of Horse, and I did labour (as well as I could) to discharge my Trust, and God blessed me as it pleased him, and I did truly and plainly, and then in a way of foolish simplicity (as it was judged by very great and wise men, and good men too) desired to make of my instru∣ments to help me in this work; and I will deal plainly with you, I had a very worthy friend then, and he was a very noble person, and I know his memory was very grateful to all.

Mr. John Hamden at my first going out into this En∣gagement (I saw) their men were beaten at every hand; I did indeed, and desired him that he would make some additions to my Lord Essex's Army, of some new Regi∣ments, and I told him I would be serviceable to him, in bringing such men in, as I thought had a spirit that would do something in the work: this is very true that I tell you, God knows I lye not; your Troops, said I, are most of them old decayed Servingmen and Tapsters, and such kind of Fellows; and said I, their Troops are Gentlemens Sons, younger Sons, and persons of Quality; do you think that the spirits of such base and mean Fellows will be ever able to en∣counter Gentlemen, that have Honour, and Cou∣rage, and Resolution in them? Truly, I presented him in this manner conscientiously, and truly I did tell him, you must get men of a spirit: and take it not ill what I say (I know you will not) of a spirit that is

likely to go on as far as Gentlemen will go, or else I am sure you will be beaten still: I told him so, I did truly. He was a wise and worthy person, and he did think that I talked a good notion, but an im∣practicable one; truly I told him I could do somewhat in it, I did so, and truly I must needs say that to you (impart it to what you please) I raised such men as had the fear of God before them, and made some Consci∣ence of what they did, and from that day forward I n ust say to you, they were never beaten, and wherever they were engaged against the Enemy they beat continual∣ly; and truely this is matter of praise to God, and it hath some instruction in it to own men that are religi∣ous and godly, and so many of them as are peaceably, and honestly and quietly disposed to live within Go∣vernment, as will be subject to those Gospel Rules of o∣beying Magistrates, and living under Authority; I rec∣kon no godliness without this Circle: but without this spirit, let it pretend what it will, it is diabolical, it is devilish, it is from diabolical spirits, from the height of Jothams wickedness; why truely I need not say more than to apply it thus.

I will be bold to apply this to this purpose, because it is my all, I could say as all the world says, and run headily upon any thing; I must tender this to you, as a thing that sways with my Conscience, or else I were a Knave and a Deceiver. I tell you there are such men in this Nation, that godly men of the same spirit, men that will not be beaten down with a worldly nor car∣nal spirit, while they keep their integrity: I deal plain∣ly and faithfully with you, that I cannot think that God would bless in undertaking of any thing that will justly and with cause grieve them, that they will be troubled without cause; I must be a Slave if I should comply with any such humour, I say that are honest

men, and faithful men, and true to the great things of the Government, to wit, the Liberty of the people, gi∣ving them that is due to them, and protecting this In∣terest, I think verily God will bless you for it: but if that I know (as indeed I do) that very generally good men do not swallow this Title, (though really it is no part of their goodness) to be unwilling to submit to what a Parliament shall settle over them; yet I must say, that it is my duty and my Conscience to beg of you, that there may be no hard things put upon me; things I mean hard to them, that they cannot swallow: If the Nation may as well be provided for without these things that I have Printed to you, as according to my appre∣hension, it may, I think truly it will be no sin in you, it will be to you as it was to David in another ease; no grief of heart to yours, that you have a tenderness, even possibly, if it be their weakness, to the weakness of those that have integrity and honesty, and upright∣ness, and are not carried away with the hurries that I see some are, who think that their vertue lies in despising Au∣thority, opposing it: I think you will be the better able to root out of this Nation that spirit and principle; and it is as desirable as any thing in this world, by comply∣ing, indulging, and being patient to the weakness and infirmities of men that have been faithful, and have bled all along in this Cause, and are faithful, and will oppose all oppositions; I am confident of it, to the things that are the fundamentals in your Government, in your settlement, for civil and Gospel Liberties.

I confess, for it behoves me to deal plinly with you, I must confess, I would say, I hope I may be understood in this, for indeed I must be tender, what I say to such an audience as this is, I say I would be understood, that in this Argument I do not make Paralel, between men of a different mind and a Parliament which shall have

their desires; I know there is no comparison, nor can it be urged upon me, that my words have the least co∣lour that way, because the Parliament seems to give li∣berty to me to say any thing to you; as that, that is a tender of my humble reasons and judgment, and opi∣nion to them; and if I think they are such, and will be such to them, and are faithful servants, and will be so to the Supream Authority, and the Legislative wheresoever it is: if I say, I should not tell you, knowing their minds to be so, I should not be faithful, if I should not tell you so, to the end you may report it to the Parliament: I will say something for my self, for my own mind, I do profess it, I am not a man scrupulous about words, or names, or such things I have not; but as I have the word of God, and I hope I shall ever have, for the rule of my Conscience, for my informations: so truely, men that have been led in dark paths, through the providence and dispensation of God; why, surely it is not to be objected to a man, for who can love to walk in the dark, but pro∣vidence doth often so dispose. And though a man may impute his own folly and blindness to providence sinfully, yet it must be at my peril: the case may be, that it is the providence of God that doth lead men in darkness; I must needs say, I have had a great deal of experience of Providence, and though it is no rule without or against the word, yet it is a very good expositor of the word in many cases. Truely the Providence of God hath laid aside this Title providentially de facto, and this not by suddain humour or passion, but it hath been by issue of as great deliberation as ever was in a Nation, it hath been the issue of ten or twelve years Civil War, wherein much blood hath been shed; I will not dispute the justice of it, when it was done, nor need I now tell you what my opinion is in the case, were it de novo to be done, but if it be at all disputable, and that a man comes and finds that God

in his severity hath not onely irradicated a whole fami∣ly, and thrust them out of the Land for reasons best known to himself, and hath made the issue and close of that, to be the very irradication of a Name or Title, which de facto is, it was not done by me nor by them that tendred me the Government that now I act in, it was done by the Long Parliament, that was it, and God hath seemed pro∣vidential, not onely to strike at the Family, but at the Names, and as I said before de facto it is blotted out, it is a thing cast out by an Act of Parliament, 'tis a thing that hath been kept out to this day, and (as Jude saith in an∣other case) speaking of abominable sins that should be in the latter times, he doth likewise when he comes to exhort the Saints, he tells them they should hate even the garments spotted with the flesh. I beseech you think not, that I bring this as an argument to prove any thing, God hath seemed so to deal with the persons, and with the Family, but he blasted the Title, and you know when a man comes (à parte post) to reflect, and see this is done, and laid in the dust, I can make no conclusion but this, they may have strong impression upon such weak men as I am, and perhaps, (if there be any such) upon wea∣ker men it will be stronger: I will not seek to set up that which Providence hath destroyed, and laid in the dust, and I would not build Jericho again, and this is somewhat to me, and to my Judgment and Conscience, that it is true, it is that that hath an awe upon my spirit, and I must confess as the times are, they are very fickle, very un∣certain, nay, (God knows) you had need have a great deal of faith, to strenghten you in your work, and all assistance, you had need to look at Settlement, I would rather I were in my grave, than hinder you in any thing, that may be for Settlement for the Nation, for the Nation needs, and never needed it more, and therefore out of the love and honour I bear you, I am for ever

bound to do, whatever becomes of me, I am ever bound to acknowledge you have dealt most honoura∣bly and worthily with me, and lovingly, and had re∣spect for one that deserves nothing: indeed out of the love and faithfulness I bear you, and out of the sence I have of the difficulty of your works, I would not have you lose any help that may serve you, that may stand in stead to you, but would be a sacrifice that there might be (so long as God shall please to let this Parliament sit) a harmony, and better, and good understanding between all of you, and (what∣soever any man thinks) it equally concerns one man as another to go on to settlement; and where I meet with any that is of another mind, indeed I could al∣most curse him in my heart, and therefore to the end I may deal heartily and freely, I would have you lose nothing that may stand you instead in this way. I would advise you, that if there be any of a fro∣ward and unmannerly, or womanish spirit, I would not have you lose them, I would not that you should lose any servant or friend, that may help in this work, that they should be offended by that, that signifies no more to me than as I told you, that is, I do not think the thing necessary, I do not, I would not that you should loose a friend for it, if I should help you to many, and multiply my self into many, I would be to serve you in settlement, and therefore would not that any, especially any of these, that indeed perhaps are men that do think themselves engaged to continue to you, and to serve you, should be any ways disobliged from you.

The truth is, I did make that my conclusion to you at the first, when I told you what method I would speak to you in, I may say, that I cannot with conveniency

to my self, nor good to this service, that I wish so well to, speak out all my arguments in order to safety, and in order in tendency to an effectuall carrying on of this work, I say I do not think it fit to use all the thoughts I have in my mind, as to that point of safety, but I shall pray to God Almighty that he would direct you to do what is according to his Will, and this is that poor ac∣count I am able to give of my self in this thing.

16. April, Lord Chief-Justice Glynne.

The Name and Office essential to Settlement.

FIrst, Because it is known to the Law, his Duty known in reference to the people, and the peoples Duty known in reference to him, this cannot be transmitted to another name, without much labour, great hazard, if it may at all. To go by individuals, and reckon up all the Duties and Powers that a King by our Laws hath in reference to his Trust towards the people, and the Duty of the people towards him, is a work of so great labour, that it would require months, yea years, if not ages.

Secondly, To apply its relative, talis qualis would intro∣duce these difficulties. First it would be a new thing, how it would prove is but guest, and its the Founda∣tion-stone, its unsafe to put it to a hazard, when you have a safe one. Secondly, Those Certainties, and Secu∣rities that accompany that Title are incident by the anci∣ent Laws and Customs of the Nations; and that which the other Office can have, are introductive, and given him de novo from this Parliament, as their ancient inheritance, that can claim but by a new title of purchase.

Thirdly, The People and your Highness loose the best Title, both to their Liberty and your Rights, which is the Law, antient Custome, and Ʋsage, and claim it only

but upon the strength of the Parliament; but if you take it as a King, you have the strength of both.

Fourthly, If you assume any other name, and have the rights given you by Parliament, it may seem as if the people had lost their ancient rights, and had need of new ones to be created by this Parliament.

Fifthly, The assumption of the Title of King, is with∣out need of any other Authority to protect the people, and bind the people to obey you.

Sixthly, If you should take the name of Protector, or any other new Title, whatsoever Authority is applyed thereto, is but grafting upon a stock that is new, and doubtful whether it will bear the fruits well, and still liable to former objections without doors.

Seventhly, If you take the Title of King, the worst af∣fected cannot object against Authority, or at all against the Parliament, as the Donor.

16 April, Master of the Rolls.

IT is certain that all Governments in themselves may be good, for none as male in se, but the rule that hath always been observed, that the most necessary and prudent course to govern a Nation, must be taken from that proportion which is most suitable to the nature and disposition of the people that are governed, if this be the general rule always in the world, we may well draw this argument: both from an absolute neces∣sity, and ex necessitate consequentis also. The chief Go∣vernour in a setled Government, being obliged to do for the good of his people, not onely quoad bonum sed quoad optimum, then the consideration that will follow properly here will be, whether the name King, which in the judgment of the Law, implies the Office, be not the best Government for the peoples safety, but ex ne∣cessitate

causa, & necessitate consequentis, to explain this, it must be premised that when we speak of King, we must take the difference between the person dignified with the Name, and the Name it self; for this must be taken for a sure ground, the word King is a Name, as it is a word which the Law doth look up∣on, so it hath its proper Basis and foundation upon the Law, and is as ancient as the Law is; now, the Per∣son of the King is a name that hath its dignity and foun∣dation from the word King, as ex necessitate consequen∣tis, because in reason a man must be used to exer∣cise that Authority which proceeds from that name. These things being very clear, by the fundamental grounds of the Law, if then we examine the founda∣tion of things, according to the rules of the Law, it is manifest that the name King, the Laws, Rights, Property and Liberties of the people, and also Parliaments themselves, have but one foundation, and have the o∣riginal prescription, and ancient customes, that is, customes time out of mind, so that in judgment of Law the Three, the King, the Law, and the Parlia∣ment, are the Parties of the Government of this Nation, which having the Basis and foundation from prescri∣ption, creates this form of Government in this Na∣tion, which is not a form in the vulgar acceptation of the word (Form) but it is the form of Government setled in this Nation, that is of the essential part, and hereby the Law forma dat esse. Then to me it is an impossible thing that any Act of Parliament, even without a destruction to the essential part of the Go∣vernment, can place that Office in another name (be what it will) which naturally wants the foundation and ground of that power and Office which that name hath.

First, Because the alteration destroyes the founda∣tion,

which is Prescription, and annexes to it a name that the Law of the Land hath no acquaintance with.

Secondly, It sets all Laws, Liberties, and what is dear to us upon a new Foundation, as to the People; for whatsoever is created by an Act, cannot have Life and Authority but from that Act, and shall never look back to its first Original Constitution; and it takes from the People the Rules and Grounds which they have known by Experience, and sends them to seek them in a Power, which no Wit of Man can suddenly apprehend the bounds and limits, when so many Doubts may arise, even in the old Foundation, which Experience and Time hath excellently refined from these Grounds: I may safely say, That there never was but one KING in England from the first Foundation of Kingship, and can safely conclude there will never be more, and that there have been many, and more I hope will be, whose Persons shall exercise that Office: For the Law doth positively affirm, The King never dies; and that the reason is, because its Original is grounded upon the same Foundation, which is so conjoyned together, that no Death can make a partition: And the difference is, The King never dies; but the name and thing hath a kinde, in a vulgar sence, of an Immortality, if we consider the continuance of the word and person that is invested with that Name by the judgment of them, is not said to die; but to devise, which is to deposite, and to lay up the Name and Title of the King. In∣deed to deposite it in another hand, all which proceeds in Judgments of Law, ex necessitate consequentis, and from the necessary Inconveniencies and Mischiefs that may arise to the People by Interregna, and by other Con∣sequences, that would be too long to relate; there is a famous Example in 1 Hen. 7.

The common ground that is taken by the accession of the Office and Dignity to the person, but the true ground is the name, and the Office is become part of the body of the Law, which should punish the offences, against which it was committed, which doth prove both the necessities of the name, and the necessary re∣lation there is between the Name and the Law, and it is a necessary deduction that the Name King is the thing wherein the Office and Power is placed, and therefore not practicable by any Statute or Act of Parliament, to divide the Power and Office from the Name, and transfer that power without the Name; the word King hath such essential reference to the Law, that it never looks to the person, to make that the ground of the essence, but if it had been the Name, the Law was sa∣tisfied, and therefore it never examined the right of the Person, how he became invested with the power, but de facto whether he were or no, and if so, whether de facto or de jure, it hath the same influence upon the peo∣ples right, and the same advantages to the chief Go∣vernour.

The Objections of the Government now, and of the Government under the Keepers of the Liberties, and the quietness under both of them.

1. REmember the difficulties in making.

2. The grounds why the Judges acted, though some refused.

3. That upon debate when inconveniencies were set forth, these grounds another Parliament might change, and the like.

4. To the government, the dislike of the people, how some disrelish this now set up.

5. The Laws did proceed farre, when the Ordinary process disobeyed, a good army to help us, the ground and reason of the warre against the person: for the breach of trust in his departure against his first promise in Parliament, upon the Petition of the Speakers, &c. and was not against the office but against breach of trust in that office, by the ab∣sence of the person.

There is also another reason why the office cannot be annext to another name, either by act of Parlia∣ment or otherwise, for in any other name you must suppose the office, the King, so that any other name is but a fiction in respect of the right name, and that would be very dangerous, both to the laws and to the propertie, to lay the basis and foundation upon a ficti∣on, which was a reason that some of the Judges for∣bare to act upon the name of Custos libertatis Angliae, &c. and the same reason upon any other name; I urged also that this Petition and advice was matter of right not of grace, which was never denied by any Prince in this Nation, nor can it be, because there is an obliga∣tion in all cases to do Right, and this obligation is up∣on the Protector whilst he takes upon him the cheif Ma∣gistracy.

Colonel Jones, 16. April.

MAy it please your Highnesse, I am unwilling to spend the time in speaking after those two learn∣ed and honourable persons that spake last, and therefore shall endeavour in what I have to say to those doubts you were pleased to make when this Committee had

the honour last to attend you, to be as brief as may be. Your Highnesse was pleased then to say, that though the arguments brought to the maintenance of the title King, in the Petition presented to you by the Parlia∣ment, were weighty, yet in your answering them you must not grant them necessarily conclusions, but take them as having much of conveniency and probability of, towards concluding; for if an expedient may be found, they are not then necessary. And you were plea∣sed to tell us that though Kingship be not a Title, but an Office interwoven in our laws, yet it is not so natione nominis, but from what it signifies, that being a name of office plainly implying the Supreme Magistrate, and therefore whatever name it be, wherein the Supreme Magistrate resides, the signification will give to the thing, and not to the name, and seeing this Title had a Commencement, and also hath been unfixed, why may not a new one now commence and be now fixed by the legislative authoritie, and thereby be made to run through the law, as well as the Title King; from whence may be inferred this Title is not necessary,) but may it please your Highness, if it be considered the intention of the Parliament in this their humble addresse to you, (viz.) that it is a Settlement: it would then be likewise considered, whether a new name will not be found, in this case to make a new office also, and whether then the novelty thereof will not hazard it nor frustrate that great end of settle∣ment, the Antiquitie and tryal of laws, being that which doth beget the greatest reverence and satisfaction of them in the people, and that the change of the name makes it a new office will ap∣pear both in respect of his authoritie, who bears the office and in respect of the peoples obligation in matter of obedience to that new officer; for by the

ancient law he cannot claim subjection from them, nor can the people thereby claim protection from him, the strength then of the settlement, and of their rights and liberties, as farre as they relate to this new Supreme Magistracy, will rest upon a new and untried constitution, and this authority upon the same foundation, the wisdome of our Ancestours, even in lesser matters when they introduce a new Law, made it for the most part a probationer onely; and I may humbly say, we have now some years been making probationeries of new governments, and therefore the Parliament finding the people not yet settled with any of them, return to that which by long experience and custome hath been found to suit with their minds, and rights, the people having not the same satisfaction nor acquiescence in any new thing which they have in long ap∣proved laws and customs, a new thing being in it self uncertain, not onely whether it will prove good or no, but also in this case, in respect that one main pro∣perty of the settlement being a co-ordinate power, depends upon it, and will be subject to be controverted whether one co-ordinate is well put up by another, or may not by the like power that sets it up, be pulled down again, which cannot but leave mens minds as doubt∣ful of settlement as ever, things uncertain and disput∣able, naturally carrying unsettlement with them. Time and experience hath grafted this Name and Office in the minds of the people, and that (as I said already) begets reverence and satisfaction in their minds. Also they were the exorbitances of the office (which in great mea∣sure this petition provides against) that was complained of, and not the Office nor Name, which are founded up∣on the ancient laws, the altering of either, alters the con∣stitution, and lays it upon a foundation lesse certain,

and easier to be shaken; and therefore to take up the office without the title will be to take it up with all the objections of Scandal: or otherwise it is said to be liable to, and yet to want the support of the ancient laws it carries with it, and the advantage of satisfying and settling the minds of such of the people of these Nations, as by the consideration of novelties, and what in this case attends it, will otherwise rest doubtful and unsettled. These are some of the grounds I observed in the debate of the Parliament, to induce them to judge this title not only expedient, but in respect of settlement necessary. Your Highness was pleased to object also the dissatisfaction of good men which you judged in things indifferent were to be considered.

They are so, and it hath been so judged by the Par∣liament, who manifested great tendernesse in that kind, and I hope ever will: but in this matter found by the Parliament not to be indifferent, but necessary for the settlement of these Nations, they hope that wherein good people have not already been satisfied, they will endeavour for satisfaction: and it is to be hoped that when the matter of this Petition will be made more publick, they will find such care and provision made for good men, and of good things, that will certainly give them satisfaction, I think I may safely say, such a positive provision for their liberties and incourage∣ment hath not been found under any former King, nor any other form of government, to which your High∣ness hath been pleased your self to give that testimo∣ny, so that it is not Kingship alone, as formerly the Par∣liament adviseth your Highnesse unto, but to the of∣fice with such a provision made for the good interest; and if then your Highnesse (of whose faithfulnesse to their interest, good people have received such ample te∣stimony) will be pleased to consent to this Petition of

the Parliament, an authority always of no small e∣steem and reverence with the best men; I doubt not but when it is done they will chearfully acquiesce, though while it is doing they may have scruples for that of providence laying aside the title, I thinking the argument whence will be as cogent against the of∣fice it self, and against government by a single person un∣der any title, the acts of Parliament mentioned are as ex∣pressely against the one as the other; and therefore the exercise of the Supreme power by a single person under any title, is as much a contradiction of providence and these acts of Parliament, as the exercise thereof under the title of a King: but certainly the laying aside of a thing de facto, which though indeed it be an act of pro∣vidence, yet it cannot be construed, that the intendment, of that providence is finally to lay it aside, never to be reassumed again: the consequences of such a position are many and may be dangerous, for what by that rule is not to be laid aside.

I remember here an objection made, that your High∣ness in another place, which I had almost forgotten, which was that we did enjoy our laws, and that the ju∣stice was freely administred under several changes and titles, as that of the Keepers of the liberty, and the title your Highnesse now bears. To which I humbly answer, that if so it may be said, thanks are rather to be given to the persons into whose hands the power fell, than to the constitutions. However I crave leave to say this, that changes imply not a settlement, and since providence led us from our old constutition, we have in a few years had 4. or 5. changes, and that these changes have not been accompanied with more hazards, it is a matter of praise to the Lord, and of commendation to the powers we have been under, but if one providence both laid aside Kingship, another led it in, and calls upon you to take

it up: and it is to me a remarkable thing, that provi∣dence hath cast it under such constitutions and laws, as if when we have thrown out the Tyrant that oppressed in our spiritual and civil rights, we can by our ancient laws graft another in, that may be a fit instrument to preserve both; who (as the learned person that spoke last said) may make up as it were but one King: this 500 years the law not admitting an Inter-Regnum, from whence I inferre, that as it was not the end of our Warre, as ap∣pears by six or seven Declarations of Parliament, one whereof was ordered to be read in all Churches; so our providence led not to lay aside either the Name or Office, but that Family which oppressed us, then all mens lives and liberties depend on this settlement, it is necessary then to lay it in the strongest foundation that may be.

And as for that of safety, it is not for me to speak much to it, but certainly it is to be hoped, that as a Parlia∣ment advise your Highnesse to things honest and lawful, and by them judged necessary for a good settlement, and therein take care and provide for our Rights as men and Christians, and your Highness thereunto, all dangers by Gods blessing upon your Highness wisdom, backed with such an Annuity, and an Army under the conduct of so many religious and faithful persons, so well principled to the obedience of lawful powers, may be prevented. And therefore I humbly hope God will incline your High∣ness to grant the Petition and advice of the Parliament.

16. April, Sir Richard Onslow.

The Lord Protectors Objections.

OBjection, That the Title of King is a name of an of∣fice, and any other name which may imply the su∣preme Magistrate hath the same signification and there∣fore no necessity of the name.

Answer, every office ought to have a name adequate to the said office, and no other name than King can be suitable and comprehensive enough to contain in it the common good to all intents and purposes.

It is a Rule, that the Kings of England cannot alter the laws of England ratione nominis, but is bound to Go∣vern according to the laws of England, but for any o∣ther name, there is no obligation lies upon it.

That the very Title is necessary was declared in the 9. year of E. 4. when the great controversie was betwixt E. 4. and H. 6. that sometimes one was in possession and then another, that it was necessary the Realm should have a King under whom the laws might be maintain∣ed and holden; for every action done by the King in possession was valid and good, for it was his Jurisdicti∣on Royal, so likewise the first of H. 7. so 3. the same o∣pinion was held and declared, that a King de facto was necessary, and in all alterations from persons and fami∣lies. Yet our Ancestors always retained the Title and the Name.

There is a prius and a primum, another name may in or∣der and degree be first, that is, before other men, but it was a King was primum, the first name that had its be∣ginning with our laws.

The Customes of England are the Laws of England, as well as our States laws, the title of King and custom are two

twins born together, and have had continuance toge∣ther, and therefore to say Protector, of which we know the date, with Custom (of which no memory can speak) is a kind of contradiction to the Original.

Then there must be a Law introductive, because Prote∣ctor is a new name that our Law doth not yet know. Now to ingraft a young Cien upon an old stock it will never grow, but there must be an irradication of the old root and a new plantation must be made, and that all the old customes must be put into positive laws, and that will be a thing consisting of much time and great difficulty.

The title of King is so incorporated, and in conjun∣ction with our Customes, which do very much concern the people of England to be upheld, and then there is a rule, Quaeque res in conjunctione pro bono conjunctionis, that ought to be done which is for the good of the conjun∣ction and benefit thereof, and if it be for the advantage of the single person and the people, it brings me to mind of another rule my old Master Tully taught me, Com∣munis utilitatis derclictio contra naturam est, it is not na∣tural to decline that which is for a common benefit and utility.

And therefore I shall say but this as to the title, that as the Patriarch Jacob joyned together in his blessing upon Judah the Law-giver and the Scepter, so the Par∣liament of the three Nations desires to preserve the title King in and upon the Law.

2. Objection, another argument your Highness was pleased to draw from providence, that had brought you to this place through much darkness, and had seemed to lay this title aside of King.

Answer, it becomes all men to acknowledge the acting of the providence and power of God for bringing to pass whatsoever he hath determined in the world, and

it is the mighty and wise hand of providence which Triumphs over Nations, and Triumphs and treads down all oppositions: Yet your Highness observes, it is not a rule to walk by without the word, the reason, the causes are hidden in the secret Counsel of Gods will; you may see in the Revelations, the Book is Sealed up with se∣ven Seals, we may read what is past, because it is written on the outside of the Book, but what is to come we can∣not read, and we ought not to limit providence, nor can we bound it with a no further.

3. Objection, this State hath by providence received several thanges to great ones from the former consti∣tution, that of the Keepers of the Liberties of England and this present Government, under the title of Prote∣ctor, and the first seemed to be the result of 7 years war against the Title and the Family.

Answer, it must be confessed it proved the event of 7. years war but the reasons of the war did not lead to it, for the war was for King and Parliament, for the office; but against the person, against the exorbitancy and irre∣gularities in his Government, but it was providence that took away at that time both the Office and the Fa∣mily.

It was also providence that altered from that of a Re∣publick, to this of a Protector; that act being as much against Protector as a King, for it was against a Single Person.

And may not, by the same series of providence, this Parliament as well set up Kingly Government, as that Parliament took it away, having also the same power they had.

4. Objection, Another ground why your Highness would not accept of the Title was, the dissatisfaction ma∣ny persons, who had been instrumental in carrying on the work, have against that title.

Answer, in every change of Government there was and still will be persons unsatisfied, because men are of mixt interests and differing in judgement, upon the change to a Republick. those that conceived the Mo∣narchical Government best were unsatisfied: but all ought to submit and be concluded by the judgement of a Parliament.

Your Highness was pleased to say that neither your self nor those that tendred to you the instrument were authors in the first change, but it was the long Parlia∣ment, so that I may conclude, they were not engaged for that Government by King.

It hath been indeed the honour of the Souldiery that in all these changes they have still followed providence, and have acquiesced, acting and living in practical conformity, but I wish they would be satisfied, for their love sake to us, and their labours for us. High should his reward be in Heaven, and happy hsi remem∣brance on earth, that would be the means of such an accord, but to satisfie all men so divided as we are would be no less that a wonder. I shall speak in a pa∣rable in the 37. Chap. of Ezekiel vers. 16. the Lord said to the Prophet, Take two sticks, write upon one stick for Judah and the children of Israel companions, and take the other stick and write upon it for Joseph the stick of E∣phraim for all the House of Israel his Companions, and join these two sticks in one stick, and they shall become one in thy hand, these are the two Nations of Israel and Judah, two di∣stant and differing names, but they shall come under one King, and David shall be their King, thus they were united.

5. Objection, Justice hath been as well administred and as free from solicitations under these changes as be∣fore.

Answer, you were pleased to say to undertook that

charge to preserve from confusion, which indeed is the worst of evil, and the same reason might prevail with judges, and other Magistrates to execute Justice, and give to men their rights, which is so desirable to all men and of absolute necessity.

Justice may be compared to the water in the spring, if kept from his natural channel will break his way through the bowels of the Earth: nature sometimes may suffer violence, there is a peace in a cessation to war, and their is a peace in the regard of the distraction may be termed; but an intermitting peace, for your Highness is pleased to acknowledge that the people call for a subsistery and cry aloud for settlement, from which under favour I may infer, that as yet there is no settlement so well settled as to be accounted perfect and good.

Your Highness is pleased to declare you had rather take a Title from this Parliament, than any title from a∣ny other place or without it.

The Parliament of England is the Womb of the Com∣monwealth, and in the Womb there hath been a concep∣tion and shape, and proportion, and form, and life, and groweth as far as the navel could nourish; there hath been also a delivery and a name given, there hath been conceptu conceptus partus & opus, and it hath been a great work to bring us to this delivery, it is therefore the hum∣ble advice of the Parliament that your Highness would be pleased to make it speak the English tongue.

April the 16.

Lord Com. Fines.

YOur Highness the other day laid down as a ground of your ensuing discourse this position that

there was no necessity of the Name and Title of King upon which foundation your Highness seemed to build the arguments and reasons of your Highness dis∣satisfaction, as to that Name and Title and that in such sort as the matter is now circumstantiated and stated by your Highness own self, that there is a necessity either in the affirmative or negative, if it be not necessary that the name be assumed, it is of necessity to be declined, and if no necessity to decline it, then there is a necessi∣ty to assume it: for although the nature of the thing be it self such as possibly may admit a latitude of argu∣ment upon the point of expediency and conveniency, and that we are not shut up under an absolute necessity either the one way or the other, yet the Parliament ha∣ving given their judgement upon it, and their advice to your Highness in it, your Highness seemeth to admit that there lye the kind of necessity upon you to assume it: if there be not a necessity to wave it, for you will not without necessity decline the advice of the Parlia∣ment having said that you should rather chuse any name, which they should six than any name what∣soever without. Then it holdeth out thus much, that you will not put expediency and conveniency, but onely necessity in ballance with their judgement, who are the proper Judges of things in that nature, and what is most expedient and convenient therein for the three Nations, which they represent, and thought a name might otherwise be inconvenient, yet accompanied with judgement of the Parliament, it would become more acceptable to your Highnesse, than any other name without, as your Highness hath said and admitted, and besides the grounds of dissatisfaction held forth by your Highnesse, relating to conscience, they must be such as are grounded upon a necessity in the negative through the reasons alledged by the

Committee should not of themselves conclude, but on∣ly in expedience in the Affirmative; yet they are so far from concluding a necessity in the Negative, that they do it by accident in the Affirmative, because there is not onely no necessitie of the Negative, but an expedi∣ency in the Affirmative, which notwithstanding is more than lay upon the Committee to make out, it being suf∣ficient, as this case is, to shew that there is not a necessi∣ty to decline it, is to conclude a kind of necessitie to take it, and whether or no if the position laid down by your Highnesse were admitted, the reasons give by your Highnesse, do upon supposition conclude a ne∣cessitie of declining this Name, is the question in the second place: when first position hath been considered, how far it must or need not to be admitted; there is a double necessity in a natural and a moral necessitie: a paternal necessitie falleth not under consideration rules, if it be one respect, because their is a kind of impos∣sibilitie, at once to enumerate all particular cases and circumstances, wherein the chief Magistrate shall or shall not have power or right, which many hundred of years hath done and fitted the Laws in all particu∣lars to the Name and Title of King, but to the Name of Protector, or any new Name, either all cases and circum∣stances must by particular enumeration be applied, which would be the work of an age (as it hath been of many ages in that Name of a King) or it must be left at least in what is not enumerated boundlesse and Law∣lesse, which that it should not be: there is a moral, that is to say a politick necessitie, or else, to suit a particular enumeration, there must be a general clause, that in all things not particularly specified, they shall be defined by the Laws and Rights belonging to the Name King, and then the question will be meerly nominal, and con∣sequently not be put in ballance with the judgment of

the Parliament, for that a necessity in the Negative can∣not arise out a meer nominal difference of the thing, and the definition thereof being Identically the very same, and there being no difference but only that of a new Name, which in the judgment of divers wise men, may draw after it such a consequence, as the putting of old Wine into a new Bottle, which may hazard the loss of the thing, and of the Laws, and Liberties of the Nation, which are desired to be preserved thereby: as to moral necessity, it is either so absoluta necessitate, or necessitate precepti, or necessitate medii; for the first neces∣sity there are but four things that are necessary in that sense, as God is necessarily good, true, &c. and as to that necessity which is virtute precepti, it is so either primarily or secondarily in terrentu actus humani, and of the latter sort is the matter in question, of at all, necessarily necessitate precepti, for though Magistra∣cy be an Ordinance of God primarily, yet particular forms of Magistracy and Government, and much more the circumstances of those forms, as Names, Ti∣tles, and the like, are first Ordinances of men, before they are Ordinances of God; first man set's his stamp upon them, and then God set's also impresse up∣on them, and therefore though they be but Or∣dinances of men, yet the Apostle saith, we are to submit unto them for the Lords sake, whether to the King as Supream, or to Governours as those that are sent by him, and what Peter calls Ordinances of me, Paul calls Ordinances of God, and yet they are to be obeyed not onely for fear, but also for Conscience sake, so that in these forms of Government men may do as they will, as in other contracts wherein it is free for them to contract, or not to contract, or to make their Cove∣nants

this way or another, but when they have made them, they must keep them, for then Gods seal is up∣on them: now as to the matter in question, it is clear, that the unquestionable stamp of humane Authori∣ty, and the Ordinance of man in these Nations, hath accompanied this Office under this Name for many hundred years together, and if it was wa∣ved and laid aside, as of late years, it is now set up again by as good an Authority, and a fuller re∣presentative of the three Nations; and though it be onely by Petition to your Highnesse, yet it is in some sort a Petition of Right; for the people of these Na∣tions have an Interest in their Government and Laws (whereof this was amongst fundamentals) as well as in their Liberties and Lands; and al∣though particular persons may have forfeited their interest in the Government, yet I do not know that the Nations have forfeited their interest there∣in, but if this point shall stem to be driven too far, yet it is clear, that if this Office under this Name and Title be most known, and most suitable to the Laws of these Nations, most agreeable to the desires and dis∣positions of the people, and most likely to maintain quiet and peace in the Nations, with Justice and Liberty, which are the great ends of Govemment, and of all Forms and Names therein, as in the Judg∣ment of the Parliament it is: Then as it is the duty of the Parliament to advise it, so doth thereby lay an obligation upon your Highnesse to accept it neces∣s••••ate medii, as a necessary medium to attain those ends: And whereas your Highnesse is pleased to say this medium is not necessary, because the ends may be attained by another medium, as appeareth in these two Names and Titles, Custodes libertatis An∣gliae

and Protector: besides, the experience in the one, that was but of short continuance, and of the other, that it hath and doth still stand but in a shaking and uncertain condition, and of both that they have attained the end but imperfectly, and through the help of a great deal of force; and though it cannot be denied, but that the end may in some degree be obtained by such other medi∣ums, which may serve the turn in case of necessity, and when no better can be had; yet where such a necessity is in the case, there doth spring out a kind of moral, or at least a politick end of the contrary, and of embracing that which is the best medium; for in case of necessitie, there might be a Government without any Laws, and that Arbitrium boni juris should serve in stead of all Lawes; and yet where Laws can be had, none will say that Lawes are not necessary: when a man hath a better Lamb in his Flock, a worse will not serve, but in that case there is a moral necessity, that the best be brought for a sacrifice, when the Parliament (and they suppose the like reason extends also to your Highnesse) are per∣swaded in their judgments, that this is the best medium to preserve the Liberties and the Peace of the Nations, and yet no necessity appearing unto them so to do, should make choice of a weaker prop, and that there∣upon should ensue inconvenience, and that the band of peace being broken, blood and confusion should return upon the Nation; it must needs also return up∣on their thoughts, that they had been wanting in their duty, in not providing the best remedy, which possi∣bly might have prevented the mischief which leadeth to the consideration of the second question in this mat∣ter, whether admitting your Highnesse position, that there is not a necessity of this Name King; the rea∣son held forth by your Highness, makes out such a necessi∣ty,

as that you cannot take upon you that name though advised thereto by the Parliament, as the best and most reducing to the ends of government, withal granting out absolutely necessary, if there fall not out to be necessity in the case, to the contrary, your Highness was pleased in the first place to mention the dissatisfaction, as to this particular of many Godly men, and such as have grown up all along with you in the carrying on this great cause, as souldiers, which indeed must needs be a very great and tender consideration to your Highness, as it is also to all of us, who reap the fruit of their prayers, and of their hazards, and great and worthy service, and it would be a great happiness, if it might please God that great and good things were carried on with unanimity and harmony amongst good men: but the felicity hath never yet been granted unto us, but that great matters and changes have been accompanied with great diffi∣culties, with great difference of judgments, even a∣mongst the best men, as our late changes sufficiently te∣stifie. For your Highness knows well when that change was made, whereby this Name and Office was laid aside, how many Godly men and your old friends were dissa∣tisfied therewith, and yet those that had then the power did not think that they should therefore forbear to do what then was judged for the good of the Nation. There was the like dissatisfaction on the other side of many Godly men, when your Highness took upon you the Government under the name of Protector, and yet it was not held an unjust obstacle to what was then thought good for the Nation. There is a certain latitude where∣in there may be had a respect to friends when the pu∣blick good of the whole Nations is in question, other considerations may not take place, and it is not love to satisfie mens desires to their own hurt, and the hurt of the publick, so it cannot be thought, but that Godly

and sober men, when they see this name stamped first with the ordinance of man, and after with Gods or∣dinance, (for so it will then be) they will submit there∣unto for the Lords sake, and satisfie their minds that they ought so to do, for that other reason alledged by your Highness, that this name hath been blasted and taken away by the Parliament, it is clear, that the thing was as much blasted as the name and the Government by one person, under what name soever, as much and more blasted than this name; but in truth, neither name nor thing hath been at all blasted by God; otherwise than he blasted all things and names of this nature. It may be as truly said, that he hath blasted Parliaments, for they have also undergone and felt the like blasts, but God hath so declared his will concerning all particu∣lar forms of Government, that they are wholly at the pleasure and disposition of men to be continued and altered and changed according to the exigency of af∣fairs and publick good of the People and Nations for which they are created by men: for the Scripture calleth them humanae creationis. Therefore as men blast them, so God blasteth them, and when men set them up again, God honoureth them again, and commands they should be honoured; One Parlia∣m••n•• thought the perfect state of affairs required the taking away of this name and office; and this Parlia∣ment iudgeth, the present State of affairs requireth the restoring it to the Nations again: as to that point of safetie which your Highness touched upon, we may best answer it by drawing a curtain before it as your Highness hath given us an example, there are dissa∣tisfactions on the one side, as well as on the other, neither is the consideration of danger only on the one side and some things may be more convenient for your Highness to conceive, than for us to speak:

onely I shall remember your Highness what the Wise∣man saith, he that observeth the wind shall never sow, and he that regardeth the clouds shall never reap: the hus∣bandman in the way of his calling must rule his actions by the ordinance and revealed will of God, without attending unto the uncertain events, which may arise through the indisposition of the air, which is in Gods hands and disposition, so every man in the way of his calling, must attend to what is the revealed will of God to guide his resolutions and actions thereby, and not by the various minds of men, which are in the hands of God: and the Wiseman also saith, he that walketh uprightly, walketh surely, he walketh uprightly that walketh according to Gods revealed will. It is also a great note of Integrity to speak as a man thinketh, to do as he speaketh, and to suit name to things and as your Parliament hath thought to suit with this thing: so have they offered to your Highness with much inte∣grity and without any other respect saving to your good and liberty of the Nations.

Lord Broghill

April 16.

YOur Highness the last time this Committee had the honour to wait on you, seemed to be of opinion, that it was not necessary that you should assume the Title of King to exercise legally the of∣fice and duty of supream Magistracy of these three Nations; because that the Title of Protector is by the authority of Parliament made the Title of the

chief Magistrate would do as well and answer all ends of Government as fully, as that which now the Parlia∣ment does desire and advise your Highness to take up∣on you: but to effect this, either all the powers and li∣mitations of a Protector must be more particularly enu∣merated, or he must under the name have all the Autho∣rities with a King, as a King has by the Law. Of the first of these then (as those learned Gentlemen that have spo∣ken before have fully proved) whatsoever is not parti∣cularly specified, the Protector is left to act arbitrarily, or a Parliament must be called to supply every new discovered defect, his power being derived only from that authority that now does, or hereafter shall con∣stitute them, which will prove dangerous and inconve∣nient both to himself, and the people, and to set down all authorities and abundances which are requisite, will be a work of so much time and difficulty, if that in the Nation only it seems impracticable, in the acting it will be much more found so, if the second, then it will evidently appear, if the difficulty is only a∣bout a name, and it would be a sad thing indeed that any disagreement should be between your High∣ness and the Parliament: especially when the thing differed in, as the settling of our foundation, and the thing differed upon, is only a name, I hope that un∣happiness will be so well foreseen as never to run unto.

Your Highness was pleased to take notice that if the Title of Protector were settled by Parliament, hardly any thing could be objected against it, but that it is a Title not so long known to these Nations as that of King, which is a grave and weighty objection, since in constituting of Governments, the ablest and most deserving judges are uncapable to see these disadvan∣tages and inconveniences which time and experience

do render evident, which may be a reason, if not the chief one, why our Ancestours would never alter Kingly Government, though they had often the po∣wer to do it, and were provoked thereunto by exorbi∣tance and evil Government of their Princes, chusing rather to bound that office proportionably to the e∣vils they have deserved in it, than to establish a new Model of their own, in erecting of which they could not have in some ages, the experience they had of that, and to cast off an office that has been some hundred of years a pruning and fitting for the good of the people, to establish one that has been but newly known, were to think our selves wiser in one day than our forefathers have been ever since the first erecting of Kingship.

It has been an unquestionable principle that the Magistrate is establisht for the Laws, and not the lawes for the Magistrate: if therefore the Title of Protector should be the Title of the supreme Magi∣strate, we should fit the laws to him, not him to the laws; which would be by our practice to contra∣dict our professions, and possibly wound the peoples rights, but in this point there has been so much said; and that so learnedly by those worthy persons, who have spoken before, that to prove the necessity of your Highness assuming the Title of King, and should only add a mentioning of those many reasons that the Parliament of three Nations think it necessary you should do it, which is evident, by their insert∣ing it amongst these three things, which they esteem fundamental as to the settlement: yea, they have pla∣ced at the head of all those fundamentals and laid so great stresses on it, that in their humble Petition and advice, they declare that if it be not accepted of, the whole shall be esteemed null and void, so that the

highest necessity imposed by a Parliament will have the best acceptance, your Highness was pleased to mention, that we had recent experiments what the supreme Magistracy of the Nation might be well carried into all effects and purposes under another Name and Title than that of King, viz. under the name of Keepers of the liberty of England, and under the name of Protector, but I shall humbly beseech your Highness to consider, that because that was not grounded upon the old known Laws, it was of very short duration: and the second for the same reason, the Parliament is now petitioning and advi∣sing your Highness to alter, so what is brought as are arguments to prove, what your Highness mentions, pos∣sibly may rather evince the contrary: besides, Sir, it is confession on all hands, that these two changes sprung from necessity: therefore were not, neither ought to be of longer continuance than that necessi∣ty which caused them, and this is the great and real difference between constitutions that are esta∣blished meerly because necessary, and those that are established meerly because good: for what is only of necessity is but temporary, as no effect lasts longer than it's cause: but what is good in it's own nature, is always good and if by intervening acci∣dents it be a while clouded, yet at length it shines and overcometh, and all wise men do desire to re∣vert unto it. To prove that the first of these changes, the Keepers of the liberty of England, was only an act of necessity and not of choice, I need but mind your Highness of what the Masters of the Rolls then spake of, the Parliament did even now evert, that after the absolution of Kingship, the Parliament were necessitated to advise with a Civilian of another Na∣tion, what the Hollander had done, what they did,

they were at a loss what to do, the providence of God hath so altered the temper of officers between that time and this present, that the change appeared best, because necessary: but the Parliament esteems the change now desired necessary, because best, nor can we possibly better express our thankfulness for the opportunity which now God hath put into our hands, than to employment, to make the best and lastingest settlement; all things are best which are found best upon tryal; but all the changes we have been under of late were upon belief, not experiment, and having had an essay of all, the Parliament have sound that a∣bove all Kingship is the best, so that by the best judges, and by the best way of judging that form of Govern∣ment now presented to your Highness, hath the pre∣ceeding in the peoples opinion, and therefore is hoped you will have it in yours.

It may possibly be fit for your Highness observation that the best breach which happened amongst those worthy persons which instrumentally carried on our Common cause, arise from the taking away the Title and Office of King, so often declared for and enga∣ged to be maintained by the Parliament, till then we went hand in hand and took sweet council toge∣ther, and if the abolishing thereof caused so sad a breach probably the restoration of it may make it up again.

Your Highness was pleased to say, you assu∣med the Office you now bear with no better hope than to prevent mischief; questionless we may ex∣pect better fruits from the supreme Magistracy: and if your Highness, who is every way so worthy of that office, had no better hopes under the Title Prote∣ctor, we may justly subscribe it not unto your self, but unto the constitution of Government you acted

under, and therefore your Highness do assume the Supreme Magistracy according to the Laws: we shall both hope and believe that you will not only prevent ill, but do much good, the best Governour being grasted upon the best Government. Your Highness expressed some doubts that the providence of God hath blasted the Kings office in the dust, and that by an act of Parliament was laid aside: but I humbly hope your Highness will pardon me, if I cannot have the like apprehension, I cannot believe if that office were blasted by the hand of God, that the Parliament would advise and Petition you to take it up. Besides, Sir, the very act which first cast out the Kingly Office, did also cast out the Supreme Magistracy in any single person: yea, by way of election or otherwise; therefore I begg your pardon if I cannot think that act of Par∣liament can be interpreted as a providential blasting of that office, which your Highness thought neces∣sary to accept of, and by virtue of which we have for some years past enjoyed quiet and protection. So that if Kingship be blasted, then Supreme Magistracy in a sin∣gle person is as much, being both equally declared against at the same time, and in the same Act of Parliament; and that since your Highness by your actings•• have evinced you did not believe the Supreme Magistracy in a single person was blasted by providence, you will per∣mit us to believe that Kingship is no more blasted than that the same authority and the same act having blemish∣ed (as far as it could) both alike; but your Highness is pleased to say Kingship is cast out de facto. If the weight of the argument do rest thereon, your Highness by accepting the Petition and Advice of the Parliament will make your argument as strong for Kingship as ever it was against it, and 'tis hoped your Highness will not doubt that what one Supreme authority did suppress,

another may erect: that seemed necessary then in the judgment of them only, then they knew not what to do when they had erected Kings, and we shall be in the like perplexity if now you accept not of this: What the long Parliament did after so long a War, must be considered rather as result of providence, than the cast∣ing out the other. The Estate of Parliament must be considered under that notion also, and yet I think there is few that esteem it not as fit to refer it again under due qualifications, as then 'twas esteemed fit not to allow of it under any; if also your Highness argu∣ments were carried on as farr as it might be, I appre∣hend it might also bring it in question, that the Parlia∣ments were blasted by providence, for whoever allows not the dissolving of the long Parliament to be under that notion, will hardly find a good reason for its dis∣solution; but it may be answered, that it may not cast down in reference to some that acted in it, who were sus∣pected to have a design of perpetuating themselves in that authority, which would have turned what should have been our Physick into our food. To which I hum∣bly answer, had that been so, the people might have had new Writs sent unto them for the election of their re∣presentatives, who might have carryed on the publick affairs of the Nation by a new Parliament; but it seems those times would not bear it, and therefore a conven∣tion of select Persons were called, unchosen by the peo∣ple, to whom all power was devolv'd, and who had e∣ven a right to have perpetuated themselves by calling in∣to themselves from time to time whom they thought fit: so that Parliaments were not for that turn only laid aside, but even by that constitution which did it, were perpe∣tually excluded: by which it is evident that if Kings were de facto blasted, Parliaments were the like; yea much more, for in the act for abolishing Kingship, it

was treason in those only who offered to restore it, but by consent in Parliament; but in that assembly there was no such provision for Parliaments ever, as hath been said. By their constitution Parliaments were ex∣cluded; and to evidence how much stress there lies barely upon a legal name, that assembly to give greater authority to their actings, stiled themselves a Par∣liament, as the only name the Parliament took notice of, as the Supreme authority of the Nation which, pos∣sibly may invite your Highness to believe that godly men and wise men think it essential to have Titles con∣sonant to our Laws: and therefore that your Highness in the exercise of the Supreme Magistracy will be the rather invited to assume the Title King, that being con∣sonant, and that only being consonant to the Law: I think all sober men agree of that Government, but for the particular form thereof, it is left to the wisdome of those which the people chuse to represent them, to set upon such a form as may be most fitted to their Genius, and likeliest to prove their good and quiet. If any can prove that Kingship by the word of God is unlawful, or that people have not power to give the Supreme Magi∣strate what name they think best, I should be then si∣lent; but since that power is unquestionable in the Re∣presentative of the people, and that they have desired your Highness to govern them by the Title of King, and since also nothing can be objected against it, and both reason and cu••••ome pleads for it, we earnestly hope you will not think fit to deny the people that which is but their Right, and I believe it was not yet denied by a∣ny Supreme Magistrate to any people: to which may be added, that if the Kingship has been cast out by many providences, your Highness accepting it will shew, that it is restored at least by as many more as have happe∣ned in reference thereunto, for its absolution to its re∣stitution.

Your Highness did further object, that some good men would be offended at your acceptance of that Ti∣tle. I confess it is very considerable and I think eve∣ry judicial person of the House would be very cauti∣ous to give men under that character a just offence, but your Highness will be pleased to permit me to mind you of the character you gave of good men in your last speech; they are such you said as give obedience to Gospel-Ordinances, which requires Obedience to authorities, not for fear, but for conscience sake, That you reckon no∣thing of Godliness without the Circle, and that any principle which opposeth thus was diabolical, and sprung from the depth of Satans wickedness. You were pleased further to say, that though some good men scrupled at that name the Parliament thought fit to assume, yet their doing so was no part of their goodness: by all which it will be evident that your acceptance thereof cannot offend good men, but by their esteeming their Obedience to a Gospel-Ordinance, an offence which I hope no good men will or can do. I shall also humbly be∣seech your Highness to consider, that if on the one side the ••cceptance of the Title may offend some good men, so on the other side the declining of it will give offence to the Parliament, where all good men are legally and at once only represented. The case of David when his child was sick may possibly parallel the case of such good men as are herein unsa∣tisfied; while as the child was sick he was very earnest with the Lord for the restoring of it to health, but God was not pleased so to do, and the child died, his servants being of another prin∣ciple than himself, thus reasoned, if his trouble and grief were so great, while yet the child was not dead,

what will it be now it is dead; but David reasoned thus, while there was hope, I wrestled with God, but since his will is declared I chearfully submit to it. I hope, as scru∣pulous good mens cases in the particular of Kingship, is a parable in the History, so it will likewise prove in the event. Your Highness was further pleased to men∣tion some considerations in reference to safety, to which I humbly answer, the things that are offered to you are just in themselves in reference to Civils and Spirituals, and so acknowledged by you: that autho∣rity that tenders them is the Supreme legal authority of three great Nations. You have a faithful and a good army, and we have you at the head of them, what shall we then fear; To which I shall only add, that safety hath been often in danger by the Kings and Parlia∣ments disagreeing, but this is the first time, (if it be in danger) that ever it was by their agreement; to which I may further add, that whatever evil may arise from your agreement with your Parliament; it will befall us on the way of our duty, which is an inward comfort to ballance any outward evil; But if any evil happens, by your not closing with your Parliament, we shall undergo the outward harm, and be denied the inward support. Your Highness was pleased to say, your had rather have any name that is not given by them. Per∣mit me therefore now to say, that to all other argu∣ments we have one irrefutable, and that is your own ingagement, for the Parliament doth desire and advise you to accept the name of King, hitherto we have pleaded but upon the accout of your engagement and it is humbly hoped your Highness, who hath so' exactly observed your word to your worst enemies, will not break it unto your best friends, the Parliament.

Lord Whitlock. 16. April.

SIR, I have very little to tuouble your Highness with, so much hath been already spoken, and so well, that it will be hard for me or any other to undertake to add to it, only the duty of my employment, and some∣thing due to your Highness, occasions me to speak a few, words to acknowledge with very humble thanks, the honour and right which you have done this Com∣mittee, by the clear and free discourses and conferen∣ces which they have had with you Highness, and for your frequent expressions and testimonies, of affection and respect to the Parliament, whose sence in this I may presume to speak, that never any persons met their Su∣pream Magistrate with more love, duty and honour, than the Parliament have met your Highness with, in their present and addresses; which argument of Love de∣serves the esteem and force, which I doubt not but your Highness will put upon it, I am fearful to be too te∣dious at any time, especially at so late an hour, and therefore shall speak but short, to some things which I remember not to have been mentioned. Your High∣ness was pleased at the last meeting, to say that the o∣riginal Institution of the Title King, was by common consent, and that the same common consent might in∣stitute any other Title, and make it as effectual as that of King: this must be acknowledged, but withal you may be pleased to observe, that the Title of King is not only by an original common consent, but that consent also proved and confirmed, and the Law fitted thereunto, and that fitted to the Laws, by the experience and industry of many ages, and many hundreds of years together; whereas any other Title will be only by present common consent, without that experience

and approbation; for that experience which your High∣ness mentioned to have been of other Titles, and the due administration of Justice under them, this experi∣ence is far short of the other, and for the course of Justice, we have cause to thank that care which plac'd so Good Judges and Officers over us; yet give me leave to say, that in private causes between Party and Party and in publick matters, in nominal causes, it was not easy to find justice to be done by some Jurors: and many questions have risen upon the occsion of those new Titles, concerning that tender point of good mens satisfaction: I think it requires a very great regard from us, and I doubt not but those good people will be fully satisfied, if they consider the covenants, promises and precepts, which in the Scriptures are an∣next to the name of King; and although some have alledged, that they belong to any chief Magistrate as well as to King: yet no man did ever read the Original word translated otherwise than King, neither do I find the present Title once mentioned in the holy Text; if the present authority be a lawsul authority, which I hope none of us will deny, surely those good men, who are so well principled in godliness, will not forget that precept of submission to authority, and to be sa∣tisfied with that which lawful authority shall ordain. Their Rights and Liberties are the same with ours, and the Parliament cannot advise any thing for the preservation of the peoples Rights, but these good men are included, which I hope will be no disatisfacti∣on to them in all the changes which we have seen: there hath been a dissatisfaction to some, yet still the bles∣sing of God hath gone along through all these changes, with those who carried on his interest and the cause being the same, the same mercies have been continued, and I doubt not but if the in∣tended

change or rather restitution be made, as I hope it will, I doubt not but the same God will con∣tinue his blessings to that good old cause, wherein we are engaged; and that good men receive satis∣faction by it. Your Highness hath been told that the Title of King is upon the foundation of Law, and that a new Title must have a constitution to make the Laws relate unto it, and that unto the Laws; I shall only add this, that a Title by relation is not so certain and safe, as a Title upon the old foundation of the Law; and that a Title upon a present single con∣stitution as any new Title must be, cannot be so firm, as a Title both upon the present constitution and up∣on the old foundation of the Law likewise, which the Title of King will be; if any inconvenience should ensue upon your acceptance of this Title which the Par∣liament adviseth, your Highness satisfaction will be, that they did advise it.

On the contrary part, if inconvenience should a∣rise upon your Highness refusal of this Title which the Parliament hath advised, your burden will be the greater. And therefore whatsoever may fall out will be better answered by your Highness comply∣ing with your Parliament, than otherwise. This question is not altogether new, some instances have been given of the like, (to which I shall add two or three) the Titles of the Kings of England, in the Realm of Ireland, was Lord of Ireland. And the Parliament in the 33. year of Hen. 8. reciting that inconveniences did arise there by reason of that Title did enact that Hen. 8. should assume the Stile and Title of King of Ireland, which in the Judge∣ment of this Parliament was preferred before the other. In the State of Rome, new Titles proved fatal to their liberties.

Their case was not much unlike ours, they were wea∣ried with a civil War, and coming to a settlement, Cuncta discordiis civilibus fessa nomine principis, sub im∣perium accepit, some would not admit the Title Rex to be used, but were contented to give the Titles of Caesar, per∣petuus Dictator, Princeps, Senator, Imperator. Non sum Rex sed Caesar, came at last to this, Voluntas Caesaris pro lege habeatur, the Northern people wers more happy amongst themselves; a private Gentleman of a noble fa∣mily took up arms with his Countrey-men against a Ty∣rant, and by the blessing of God rescued their native li∣berties, and rights of their Country from the oppression of that Tyrant. This Gentleman had the Title of Mar∣shall given unto him, which continued for some years. Afterwards their Parliament, judging it best to resume the old Title, elected this Gentleman to be their King; and with him was brought in the liberty of Protestant Religion, and the establishment of the civil rights of that people, which have continued in a prosperous condition ever since unto this day. Sir, I shall make no other ap∣plication but in my prayers to God to direct your Highness and the Parliament (as I hope he will) to do that which will be most for his honour and the good of his people.

The Lord Protectors Speech.

April 26. 1657.

I Have as well as I could considered the Arguments used by you the other day, to inforce the conclusion that refers to the name, and Title that was the Subject matter of the debates, and conferences that have been between us, I shall not now spend your time, nor my own much in ••••••••ating those Arguments, and in giving

answers to them, although (indeed) I think they are but the same that they were formerly, only there were some additional inforcements of those arguments by new instances, I think truely after the rate of Debate, I may spend your time, which I know is very preci∣ous, and unless I were a satisfied person: the time would spinne out and be very unprofitable spent, so it would; I onely must say a word or two to that, that I think was new. What comes from the Parliament in the exercise of the legislative power, which this is, I understand it to be an exercise of the leg••slative power, and the laws were always formerly past this way, and that of Bills was of a newer date; I under∣stand that, I say, but it is said that was, is done by the Parliament now, and simply hangs upon their legis∣lative, seems to be a thing that is ex d••n••, not de jure, not a thing that is of so good weight, and so strong, as what refers from them to the law that is already in being. I confess there is some argument in that that is there, but if the strength will be as good with∣out it, though it comes as a gift from you, I mean as a thing that you provide for them, or else it will never come at them, so in a sense it comes from you, it is that, that they otherwise come by; therefore in a sense it is ex dono, for that helps a man to what he cannot o∣therwise come by, he doth on act that is very near a gift, and you helping them to it, it is in a kind a g••ft to them; otherwise they could not have it, but if you do it simply by your legislative power, the question is not, what makes this more firm, whether the manner of the setling of it, or the manner of your doing of it, it's always as great a labour; but yet the question lies in the acception of them, who are concerned to yield o∣bedience and accept this, and therefore if a thing that hath for its root and foundation but your leg••slative

in an act of yours, if I may put a but to it, I do not do so, for I say it is as good a foundation, as that other is, and if it be as well accepted, and that the other be less then truely it is, I should think the better and then all that I say is founded upon the law: I say all those arguments that are founded in the law are for it, because it hath been said it doth agree with the law, the law knows the Office, the law knows the people knows it; and the people are likelier to receive satisfaction that way: those have been arguments that have been already, and truely I know nothing that I have to adde to them, and therefore I say also those arguments may stand as we found them, and left them already; onely this I think truely, as it hath been said to me, I am a Person that have done that, that never any that were actually King of England refused: the advice of the Parliament I confess that runs to all, and that may be accounted a very great fault in me, and may a∣rise up in Judgement against me another time, if my case be not different from any mans that was in the chief command and government of these Nations that ever was before, & truely I think it is they that have been in, and owned to be in the right of the law, as inheritours coming to it by birthright, or otherwise by the autho∣rity of Parliament, who yet have had some previous pretence of Title, or claim to it; I think (under favour) I deserve less blame than another doth, if I cannot so well comply with the Title, with the desires of the Parliament in it, as others do, for they that are in, would take it for an injury to be out it; truely these arguments are very strong to them, why they should not refuse that, that is tendred to them by the Par∣liament: but I have dealt plainly with you, and I have not complemented with you, I have not de∣sired,

I have no Title to the Government of these Nations, but what was taken up in a case of necessi∣ty, and temporary, to supply the present immergen∣cy, without which we must needs, I say we had been all after the rate of the printed book, and af∣ter the rate of those men, that have been taken, go∣ing into arms, if had not been taken; it was as visible to me as the day, if I had not undertaken it, and so it being put upon me, I being then Gene∣rall, as I was Generall by act of Parliament being upon me to take power in my hand, after the as∣sembly of men that was called together had been dis∣solved. Really the thing would have issued it self in this Book, for as I am informed the Book knows an Authour; it was a leading principall Person in that Assembly, when now I say, I speak in the plain∣ness and simplicity of my heart, as before Almighty God, I did out of necessity undertake that, that no man I think would have undertaken but my self, it hath pleased God that I have been instrumental to keep the peace of the Nation to this day, and to keep it under a Title that some sayes signifies but a keep∣ing it to anothers use, to a better use, that may im∣prove it to a better use; and this I may say, I have not desired the continuance of my power or place, either under one Title or other, that have I not, I say it, if the wisdome of the Parliament, could find where to place things so as they might save this Nation, and the interests of it; the interest of the people of God in the first place, of those godly honest men, for such a Character I reckon them by, and live in the fear of God and desire to hold forth the excellency and Christian course in their life and Conversation; I reckon that proceeds from faith, and looking to the duties towards Christians, and

to the humanity to men as men, and to such liberties and interests, as the people of this Nation are of, and look upon that as a standing truth of the Gospel, and I who lives up to that, according to that, is a godly man in my apprehension; and therefore, I say, if the wis∣dom of this Parliament, I speak not this vainly nor like a fool, but as to God; and if the wisdome of this Parliament, should have found a way to settle the in∣terests of this Nation, upon the foundations of Justice and truth, and liberty, to the people of God, and con∣cernments of men as English men, I would have layn at their feet, or any bodies feet else, that this might have run in such a currant; and therefore I say I have no pretentions to things for my self, or to ask this or that, or to avoid this or that; I know the censures of the world may quickly pass upon me, but I thank God I know not where to lay the weight that is laid upon me; I mean the weight of reproach and contempt and scorn, that hath been cast upon me, I have not offered you any name in competition with Kingship. I know the evil spirits of men may easily obtrude upon a man, that he would have a name that the law knows not, and that is boundless, and is that under which a man exer∣cises more arbitrariness; but I know there is nothing in that argument, and if it were in your thoughts to do any of that kind, I think whatsoever it was, it would bound it, and limit it sufficiently: I wish it were come to that, that no favour should be shewed to me, but that the good of these Nations might be consult∣ed, as I am confident they will be by you in whatsoever you do; but I may say this in an answer to that, that doth a little pinch upon me, and the more when I am told it is my duty, I think it can be no mans duty, nor obligation, but between God and himself, if he be conscious of his own infirmities, dissabilities, and

weaknesses; and that he is not able perhaps to en∣counter with, (although he may have a little faith too, for a little exercise) I say I do not know which way it can be imputed to me for a fault, or laid upon me as a duty, except I meant to gripe at the government of the Nations without a legal consent, which I say I have done in times past, upon principles of necessity, and I promise, I shall think whatever is done without Authority of Parliament, in order to settlement, will neither be very honest, nor yet that, that I understand. I think we have fought for the Liberties of the Nation, as well as for other Interests: you will pardon me, that I speak these things in such a way as this is, I may be born withal, because I have not truely well born the ex∣ercise that hath been upon me now these three or four days, I have not I say; I have told you my thoughts, and have laid them before you, you have been pleased to give me your grounds, and I have told you mine; and truely I do purposely refuse to mention those arguments were used when you were last here, but rather tell you, what since I tell you lies upon my heart out of the abundance of d••fficulty, and trouble that lies upon me, and therefore you haveing urged me, I mean offered reasons to me and urged them with such grounds as did occur to you, and having told you the last time I met you, that the satisfaction of them did not reach to me, so as wholly to convince my Judgement of what was my duty: I have thought rather to answer you with telling you my grief, and the trouble I am under; and true∣ly, my intentions and purposes they are honest to the Nation, and shall be by the Grace of God, and I cannot tell how upon collateral pretences

to cut towards things that will be destructive to the liberties of this Nation: any man may give me leave to die, and every body may give me leave to be as a dead man, when God takes away the spirit, and life, and activity that is necessary for the carrying on such a work; and therefore I do leave the for∣mer Debates as they were, and we had them, let∣ting you know that I have looked a little upon the paper, the Instrument, I would say in the other parts of it, and considering that there are very ma∣ny particulars in the instrument, some of the gene∣ral, of reference, others specified, and all of weight, (let the Title be what it will be) of weight to the concernment of the Nations. I think I may desire that those may be such as what they be applied to, either one thing or another, they might be such as the people have no cause, as I am confident your care and faithfulness needs nei∣ther a spurre, nor any admonition to that: I say (reading in your order, by order of Parliament for the Committee) that there are divers particulars that are, that if I do make any scruple of them, I should have the freedom with this Committee to cast my doubts, the truth of it is, I have a paper here in my hand, that doth contain divers things, with relation to the instrument, that I hope have a publick aspect with them, therefore I cannot pre∣sume but they will be very welcome to you, there∣fore I shall desire that you will read them. I should desire, if it please you, that liberty (which I sub∣mit to your judgement, whether you think I have it or no) that I might tender these few things, and some others that I have in preparation, and truely I shall reduce them to as much brevity as I can; they are too large here, and if it please you to morrow

in the afternoon at three of the clock I may meet you again, and I hope we shall come to know one ano∣thers minds, and shall agree to that, that shall be to the Glory of God, and the good of these Nations.

The Lord Protector, April 21. 1657.

My Lord,

I Think you may well remember what the issue was of the last conference I had with you, and what the Stick was then, I confess I took occasion from the order of Parliament, in which they gave you power to speak with me about these things that were in the body of that instrument and desire, which you have been pleased to speak with me; but that I might conferre with you about those particulars, and might receive satisfaction from you as to them, whether a good issue will be to all these affairs or no, is onely in the hands of God, that's a great secret, and secrets belong to God, and things revealed to us, and such things are the subject matter of this instrument of yours, and are as far as they may, have relation to me, that you and I may consider, what may be for publick good, that so they may receive such an impression as can hu∣manely be given to them. I should be well under∣stood, and that I say the former debates and confe∣rences have been upon the Title, and that rests as it did, seeing that, as I said before, your order of Com∣mitment, doth as well reach to the particulars con∣tained in the instrument, as to that of the Title, I did offer to you that I should desire to speak with you about them also, that so we may come to an under∣standing

one with another, not what the things is in parts, but what it is in the whole conduceable to that end, that we all ought to aim at, which is a gene∣ral settlement upon good foundations; as truely, as I have often said even to the Parliament it self, when they did the honour to me, to meet me in the Banqueting-House, so I must say to you, that are a Committee, a very considerable representation of them, that I am hugely taken with the word settlement, with the thing, and with the notion of it, I think he is not worthy to live in England that is not, no, I will do my part so far as I am able, to expell that man out of the Nation, that doth not of that in the general to come to a settlement, because indeed it is the great misery and unhappiness of a Nation to be without it; and it is like a House, and so much worse then a House divided against it self, it cannot stand with∣out settlement; and therefore I hope we are all so far at a good point, and the Spirit of the Nation, I hope in the generality of it, is so far at a good point, we are all contending for a settlement, that's sure; but the question is de modo, and of those things that will make it a good one if it were possi∣ble: that's no fault to aim at perfection in settlement, truely I have said, and I say it again, that I think that that tends to the making of the Nation, to injoy the things we have declared for, and I would come upon that issue with all men or any man; the things we have declared, that have been the ground of our quarrelling and fighting all along, is that will accomplish the ge∣neral work; settlemeet is the general work, now that which will give the Nation to enjoy their ci∣vil and Religious Liberties, that will conserve the Li∣berty of every man, and not to rob any man of what is ••ustly his; I th••nk those two things make up settlement;

I am sure they acquit us before God and man, who have endeavoured as we have done, through some stream∣ings of bloud to attain that end, if I may tell you my experience in this business, and offend no good man that loves the publick before that which is personall, truly I shall a little shortly recapitulate to you what my observations, and endeavours and interest hath been to this end, and I hope no man that hath been interrest∣ed in trasactions all along will blame me, if I speak a little plainly, and he shall have no cause to blame me, because I will take my self into the number of culpa∣ble persons, if there be any such, though perhaps apt enough out of the self love I have, to be willing to be innocent, where I am so, and yet to be as willing to take my reproach, if any body will lay it upon me where I am culpable; and truely I have through the providence of God, endeavoured to discharge a poor duty, having had as I conceive a clear call to the station I have acted in all these affairs, and I believe very many are suffi∣ciently satisfied in that, I shall not go about to say any thing to clear it to you, but must exercise my self in a little short Chronology to come; to that I say is really all our business at this time, and the business of this Na∣tion to come upon clear grounds; and to consider the providence of God, how they have led us hither un∣to. After it pleased God to put an end to the War of this Nation, a final end which was done at Worster in the determination and decession that was there by the hand of God, for other War we have had none, that per∣haps deserves the name of War, since that time, which is now six years in September, I came up to the Parliament that then was, and truely I found the Parliament, as I thought, very disposed, to put a good issue to all those transactions, that had been in the Nation, and I rejoyced at it, and thought I had not been well skilled in Parlia∣mentary

affairs, h••ving been near ten year in the field, yet in my poor measure my desires did tend to some issue, believing verily that all the Blood that had been shed, and all that distemper that God had suffered to be amongst us, and in some sence God hath raised amongst us, that surely fighting was not the end, but the means that had an end, and was in order to somewhat, truly it was then, I thought settlement, that is that men might come to some consistencies, and to that end I did endea∣vour to add my mite, which was no more, then the in∣terests of any one Member that was there, after I was r••turned again to that capacity, and I did, I shall tell you no fable, but the things that divers persons here can tell, whether I say true or no: I did endeavour it, I would make the best interpretation of this, but yet this is truth, and nothing of discovery on my part, but that which every body knows to be true, that the Parliament having done these memorable things, that they had done things of honour, and things of necessi∣ty, things that if at this day you have any judgment, that there lyeth a possibilitie upon you to do any good, to bring this Nation to any foot of settlement, I may say you are all along beholden to them in a good measure, but yet truly as men that contend for publick interest are not like to have the applause of all men, nor justification from all hands, so it was with them; and truly when they had made preparation that might lead to the issuing in some good for the set∣tlement of these Nations in points of libertie and free∣dom, from Tyranny and oppression, from the hazard of our Religion, to throw it away upon me that de∣signed by innovations to introduce Poperie, and by complying with some Nations introduce arbitrariness upon a civil account, why they had more enemies then friends, they had so all along, and this made

them careful out of Principals of nature, that do sometimes suggest best, and upon the most unde∣niable grounds they did think that it was not fit for them presently to goe and throw themselves, and all this cause into hands that perhaps had no heart nor principle with them to accomplish the end that they aimed at, I say perhaps through infirmity they did desire to have continued themselves and to have perpetuated themselves upon that Act which was per∣haps just enough obtained, and necessarily enough obtained when they did get it from the King, though truly it was good in the first obtaining of it, yet it was by most men, who had ventured their lives in this cause, judged not fit to be perpetuated, but rather a thing that was to have an end, when it had finished it's course, which was certainly the true way of it, in the subserviency to the bringing in that which might be a good and honest settle∣ment to the Nation. I must say to you that I found them very willing to perpetuate themselves, and truly this is not a thing of reflection upon all, for perhaps some were not so, I can say so of some of them, the sober men that I had converse with, they would not have, but the major part I think did over rule, in that they would have continued; this is true that I say to you, I was intreated to it, and advised to it, and was by this medium to have ac∣complisht it, that is to have sent into the Countrey to have reinforced their number, and by new ele∣ctions to have filled them up, and this excuse it had, it would not be against the libertie of the people, nor against the succession of men to come into Rule and Go∣vernment, because as men dyed out of the house, so they should be supplyed, and this was the best an∣swer could be given to that objection that was then

made, that the best way to govern, is to have men suc∣cessive, and in such great bodies as Parliaments, to have men to learn to know, how to obey as well as to govern, and truely the best expediment that we had then was, that I tell you, the truth of it is, this did not satisfie a company of poor men, that had thought they had re∣turuned their lives, and had some thoughts, that they had a little interest to enquire after these things, and the rather because really they were invited out, upon prin∣ciples of honesty, conscience and religion, for spiritual liberties, as many as would come, where the cause was a little doubtful, there was a declaration that was very inviting, and men did come in upon that invitation, and did thereby think themselves not to be mercenary men, but men that had Wives and Children in the Nation, and therefore might a little look after a satissaction in what would be the issue of the business, and when this thing was thus pre••t, and it may be over prest, that a period might be put, and that, that might be assertained, and a time fixt, why truely, then the extremity ran another way, this is very true that I tell you, though it shame me, I do not say it shames all that were of the House, for I know all were not of that mind, why truely when this was urged then another extremity; what was that? why truely then it was seeing a Parl ament might not be perpetual, the the Parliament might always be sitting, and to that end there was a Bill framed, that Parliaments might always be sitting, that as soon as one Parlia∣ment went out of their place, another might leap in, and when we saw this, truly we thought we did but make a change in pretence, and did not remedy the thing, and the upon that was pursued with that great heat, I dare say there was more progress in it in a month, then was with the like business in four, to hasten it to an issue, that such a Parliament might be brought in, and would

bring the state of the Nation into a continual sitting of Parliaments: we did think, who are plain men, and I think it still, that that hath been according to the foolish pro∣verb, out of the frying pan into the fire, for looking at the Government, they would then have, it was Com∣monwealths Government? why we should have had fine work then, we should have had a Council of State, and a Parliament of 400 men, executing arbitrary Govern∣ment without intermission saving of one Company, one Parliament stepping into the seat of another, while they left them warm, the same day that one left, the other was to leap in, truly I did think, and I do think, however some are very much enamoured with that kind of Go∣vernment, why it was no more but this, that Committees of Parliament should take upon them, and being in stead of the Courts at Westminster, perhaps some will think there had been no hurt in that arbitrariness in Com∣mittees, where a man can neither come to prove nor de∣fend, nor to know his Judges, because there are one sort of men that judge him to day, and another so••t of men to morrow, this should have been the Law of England, and this should have been the way of judging this Nation, and truly I thought that, that was an i••l way of judging, for I may say to you with truth to ••hat after it pleased God your poor Army those poor contempti∣ble men came up hither, it was so, an outery here in this place to see a cause here, determined and judged, and Committees erected to fetch men from the extreamest parts of the Nation to London to attend Comm••••tees to determine all things, and without any manner of satis∣faction, whether a man travel never so right or wrong he must come, and he must go back again as wise as he came, this truly was the case and our condition, and truly I must needs say, take all in that was in the practi∣ces, I am sorry to tell the story of it, though there was

indeed some necessity of the business, a necessity of some Committees to look to indemnity, but no necessity of Committees instead of Courts of Justice, but it was so, and this was the case of the People of England at that time: and that the Parliament assuming to it self the au∣thority of the three Estates that were before, it was so as∣suming that authority, and if any man would have come and said what are the rules you judge by? Why, we have none but we are supream in legislature, and in judicature, this was the state of the case & I thought, & we thought, & I think so still, that this was a pityful remedy, and it will be so while and when soever a legislture is perpetu∣ally exercised, when the legislative and executive powers are always the same, and truly I think the legisla∣ture would be almost as well in the sour Curts of West∣minster Hall, and if they could make laws and judges too, you would have excellent laws, and the lawyers would be able to give excellent counsel, and so it was then: this was our cond••tion without scruple and doubt, and I shall say no more to it, but truly it was offered then truly and honestly; and desire, and begg that we might have a settlement, and that now is here, that is proposed a settlement: it was desired then, it was offered & desired that the Parliament would be pleased either of their own number, or any else to chuse a certain number of men to settle the Nation, this is unsettlement, this in confu∣sion: for give me leave, if any body now have the face to say, and I would die upon this, if any man in Eng∣land have the impudence or the face to say, that the exceptions of the Parliament was the sear of their hasty throwing of the liberties of the people of God and the Nation into a bare representative of the people, which was then the busines we opposed, if any man have the face to say it now, that did then, or I will say more, ought then to judge it had been a confounding of the

whole cause, that we had fought for, which was, I would look upon that mans face, I would be glad to see such a man, I do not say there is any such here, but if any such should come to me, see if I would not look upon him and tell him he is an hypocrite. I dare say it, and I dare to die for it, knowing the Spirit that hath been in some men to me, they come and tell me they do not like my being Protector. Why do you not? Why? because you will exercise arbitrary Government, why what would you have me to do? Pray turn Gentlemen all a∣gain, and we will like you exceeding well, I was a child in its swadling clouts I cannot transgress by the Govern∣ment, I cannot do nothing but in ordination with the Council, they feared arbitrary Government by me upon that account, but if returned to be General, then they were not affraid of Arbitrary Government: such as these, are such hypocrisies as these are, should they enter into the heart of any man that hath any truth or honesty in him, and truely that is our case, and finding our case to be thus, we did press the Parliament as I told you, that they would be pleased to select some worthy persons, that had loved this cause and the Liberties of England, and the interest of it; and we told them, we could acquiesce and lie at their feet, but to be thrown into Parliaments, that should sit perpetually, though but for three years they had the experience of.

The experience of which many remain to this day to give satisfaction to honest and sober men, why truly we thought it might sat••sfie, but it did not, and there∣upon we did think that it was the greatest of dan∣gers, to be overwhelmed and brought under a slave∣ry by our own consent, and iniquity to become a law: and there was our ground we acted upon at that time, and truly they had perfected the Bill for perpetuating of Parliaments to the last clause, and were resolved to

pass it as a Bill in paper, rather than comply with any expedient, if your own experience add any thing to you in this, in this point, whether or no in cases civil and criminal, if a Parliament should assume an absolute power, without any controul, to determine the in∣terests of men in property & liberty, whether or no this be desirable in a Nation: if you have any sence, as I be∣lieve you have, you have more then I have. I believe you will take it for a mercy that, that did not befall England at that time, and that's all I will say of it, truly I will now come and tell you a story of my own weak∣ness and folly, and yet it was done in my simplicity, I dare avow it was, and though some of my compa∣nions and truly this is a story that would not be re∣corded a story, that would not be told, but when good use may be made of it. I say it was thought then, that men of our judgment, that had fought in the Wars, and were all of a piece upon that account, why surely these men will hit it, and them Men will do it to the purpose whatever can be desired, truly we did think, and I did think so, the more to bl••me of, and such a Company of Men were chose and did proceed in action, and tru∣ly this was the naked truth, that the issue was not an∣swerable to the simplicity and honesty of the design, what the issue of that meeting would have been, and was feared, upon which the sober Men of that meeting did withdraw, and came and returned my Power as far as they could, they did actually the greater part of them into my own hands, professing and believing that the issue of that meeting would have been the sub∣versi••n of your Laws, and of all the Liberties of this Na∣tion, the destruction of the Ministers of this Nation. In a word, the confusion of all things and instead of order, to set up the judicial law of Moses, in abrogation of all our Administrations, to have been administred the

Judicial Law of Moses, pro hic & nunc, according to the wisdom of any man that would have interpreted the Text, this way or that way, and if you do not believe that they were sent home by the major part, who were judicious and sober and learned, the worst upon this ac∣count and with my consent also à parte post, you will be∣lieve nothing, for the persons that lead in the meeting where Mr. Feake and his meeting in Black fryars, Major General Har••••son, and those that associated with him at one Mr. Squibbs House, and there were all the resolu∣tions taken that were acted in that House day by day, and this was so de facto, I know it to be true, and that this must be the product of it, I do but appeal to that Book, I told you of the other day that all Magistracy, and Ministery is Antichristian, and therefore all these things ought to be abolished, which we are certain must have been the issue of that meeting, so that you have been delivered if I think right, from two evil••; the one e∣vil a secular evil, that would have swallowed up all religious and civil interest, and made us under the ••or∣ridest arbitrariness that ever was exercised in the ••••rld, that we might have had five or six hundred s••••••ds, with their friends, to have had a judgment of a 〈◊〉〈◊〉, and to have judged without a rule, thinking that the power that swallowed up all the other lawful powers in the Nation, hath all the power that ever they had, both a legislative and judiciarie, I say that which swal∣lows both the civil and religious interest. And the other meerly under a spiritual interest, had swal∣lowed up again in another extream, all our civil and religious interest, and had made our ministrie, and all the things we are beholding to God for: truly we think we ought to value this interest, above all in∣terests in the world, but if this latter had not been as sure destroyed as the former, I understand nothing,

and having told you these two things, truly I must needs say, it makes me in love with this Paper, and with all things in it, and with these additions, that I have to tender to you, and with settlement above all things in the world, except that where I left you the last time, and for that I think we have debated: I have heard your mind, and you have heard mine, I have told you my heart and my judgment, and the Lord bring forth his own issue, I think we are now to consider not what we are on the foot, and of the Government that called this Parliament, which till there be an end put to it, is that that hath existence, and I shall say nothing to that, if that ac∣complisheth the end of our fighting, and all those blessed and good ends that we should aim at, if it do I would we might have that, and remain where we are, if it doth not, I would we might have that which is better, which truly I now come out of my self to tell you, that as to the substance and body of your in∣strument I do look upon it as having things in it (if I may speak freely and plainly) I may, and we all may, I say the things that are provided for in this Government have the Liberties of the people of God, so as they ne∣ver had it, and he must be a pitiful man that thinks the people of God ever had that Liberty, either de facto, or de jure, that is to say, de jure, from God; I think they have had it from the beginning of the World to this day, and have it still but asserted by a jus hu∣manum; I say they never had it so, as they have it now, and I think you have provided for the Li∣berty of the people of God and of the Nation, and I say he sings sweetly that sings a Song of reconciliation be∣twixt these two interests, and it is a pityful fancy, and wisdome, and ignorance to think they are inconsist∣••nt, and may consist, and I speak my conscience in

this Government, I think you have made to con∣sist; and therefore I must say in that and in other things you have provided well, that you have; and because I see the root of the Parliament gives you leave to speak with me about the particulars. I think the Par∣liament doth think, that any Member they have is not to be neglected in offering of any thing that may be of additional good, and upon that account I having a little surveyed the instrument, I have a pa∣per here to offer to you upon that account, and tru∣ly I must needs say and think, that in such a case as this where so new a work, and so strange a work as this that is before you, it will not be thought ill of. I do with a little earnestness press to you some explana∣tions in some that may help to contemplate, and leave me; for it is only handled with me, this transaction is onely handled with me at this time which you and the Parliament, whom you represent. I say I would be glad that you might leave me and all op∣posers without excuse, as well as that I could wish that you should settle this Nation to the uttermost good of it, in all things I have to offer to you, they are not very weighty, they may tend to the complexion of the business, and therefore I shall take the freedom to read them to you.

In the fourth Article and second Paragraph you have something under that head that respects the cal∣ling of Members to Parliament, you would not ex∣clude those that (were under Duke Hamilton) made that Invasion, because it hath been said to you perhaps, that if you exclude all, you shall have no Members from Scotland, I hope there be persons of that Na∣tion, that will be ready to give a better Testimony of their Country than to admit of that argument, & I hope

it is none, but if it be one, then truly to meet with the least upon that certainty of the qualifications, you should indeed exclude men of your own Countrey perhaps upon better crimes, and hold them of upon stricter Characters; it is thought that that qualifica∣tion that saith, that the testimonie that they shall have, that they are men that have given good testimony in their peaceable and quiet living, why truly for divers years, they have not been willing to do other, they have not had an easie possibility to do otherwise, to live unquietly, though perhaps have been the same men many of them; though I know many of them are good men, worthy men, and therefore whether it be not fit, in that place to explain somewhat else, and put some other Character upon it, that may be accounted a good te∣stimony, of their being otherwise minded, and of their being of another judgment, I confess I have not any thing here to supply it with, but certainly if it should be so, as it is in your article, though they be never so indisposed and enemies and remain so, yet if they have lived peaceably, where they could neither will nor chuse, they are to be admitted; I only tell you so, being without any amendment for it, and when I have done I shall offer the whole to you, this is the second Paragraph.

In the third Paragraph of the same Article, whereas it is said that the persons in Ireland be made uncapable, to elect or be elected, that before the first of March 1649. have born Armes for the Parliament, or otherwise given testimony of their good affections, and continued faithful to the Parliament, and are since revolted, whether it be not necessary that it be more clearly exprest, it seeming to capacitate all those who have revolted from the Parliament, if they have born armes for the State

before the first of March 1649. it seems to restore them, but if since then they have revolted, as many I doubt of our English-Irish have done, why then the question is, whether these men, who have lately been angry and fled to armes, whether you will think their having born armes formerly on the Parliaments side, should be an exemption to them, that is but tendered to you that some worthy person here will give an answer unto.

In the fifth Paragraph of the same Article you have incapacitated publick Preachers from sitting in Par∣liament, and truly I think that your intention is such as have Pastoral function, such as are actually and re∣al Ministers, for I must say to you in the behalf of our Armie, in their next place to their fighting, they have been very good Preachers, and I should be sor∣ry they should be excluded from serving the Com∣monwealth, because they have been accustomed to preach to their Troops, Companies, and Regiments, which I think have been one of the best blessings upon them, to the carrying on of the great work. I think you do not mean so, but I tender it to you, that if you think fit there may be a consi∣deration had of it; there may be some of us, it may be, that have been a little guilty of that, that would be loth to be excluded from sitting in Parliament. In the same Paragraph there is care taken for the nominating Commissioners to try the Members which are chosen to sit in Parliament, and truly t••ose Commissioners are uncertain Persons, and it is hard to say what may happen, I hope they will be alwaies good men, but if they should be bad, then per∣haps they will keep out good men: besides we think, truly if you will give us leave to help, as to the

freedom of the Parliament, it will be something that will go rather harshly down, than otherwise, very many reasons might be given, but I do but tender it to you, I think if there be no Commissio∣ners, it would be never a whit the worse, but if you make qualifications, if any man will presume to sit without those qualifications you may deal with them; A man without qualifications sitting there, is as if he be not chose, and if he sit with∣out being chosen, and so without a qualification, I am sure the old custom was to send him to the Tower, to imprison such a one, if any one sit there, that have not right to sit there, if any stranger come in upon his pretended Title of election, then perhaps it was a different case, if any sit there upon pretence of a qualification upon him, you may send him to Prison without any more adoe; whether you think fit to do so or no, it is Parliamentary bu∣siness, I do but hint to you, I believe if any man had sat in former Parliaments, that had not taken the oathes prescribed, it would have been a fault enough, &c. I believe something of that kind, would be equivalent to any other way, if not bet∣ter. In that Article which I think is the fifth Arti∣cle, which concerns the nomination of the other House, in the beginning of that Article, it is that the House is to be nominated as you design it, and the approbation is to be from this House, I would say to be from the Parliament, it is so; but then now, if any shall be subsequently named a ter this House is sat, upon any accidentall re∣movall or death, you doe not say, though it seems to refer to the s••••e that the first election doth, yet it doth not refer clearly to this, that the nomina∣tion

shall be, where it was in the chief Officer, and the approbation of the other House, if I do ex∣press it clearly that you pardon me in, but I think that is the aim of it, it is not clearly exprest there as I think you will be able to judge whether it be or no.

In the 7. Article that which concerns the revenue, that is the revenue that you have appointed to the Go∣vernment, which you have distributed 300000 l. of it to the maintenance of the civil Authority 1000000 l. to be distributed to the maintenance of your For∣ces by Sea and Land, you have indeed said it in your instrument, and we cannot doubt of it, but yet you have not made it certain, nor yet those temporary supplies which are intended for the peace and safety of the Nations. It is desired that you will take it into your thoughts, and make both those cer∣tain, both as to the sum and time, that those supplies shall be continued, and truly I hope I do not curry favour with you, but it is desired, and I may very reasonably desire it, that these monies whatever they are, that they may not if God shall bring me to any interest in this business, which lyeth in his own power, that these monies may not be issued out, by the Authority of the chief Magistrate, but by the advice of his Councel, seeing you have in your instrument made a coor∣dination in general terms, that this might be a reserved thing, that the monies might not be distributed, it will be a safety to whomsoever is your supream Magistrate, as well as security to the publick, that the monies might be issued out by the advice of the Councel, and that the Treasurers that receive this money, may be ac∣countable

every Parliament, within a certain time limited by your selves every new Parliament the Treasurer may be accountable to the Parliament for the disposing of the Treasury, and there is mention made of the Judges in the 9. Article. It is mentio∣ned ••hat the Officers of State, and the Judges are to be chosen by the approbation of the Parliament, if there be no Parliament sitting, if there be never so great a loss of Judges it cannot be supplied, and whe∣ther you do not intend, that it should be by the choice with the consent of the Counsel in the inter∣vals of Parliament to be afterwards approved by Par∣liament.

The 12. Article relates to several qualifications, that persons must be qualified with, that are put into places of publick Office and Trust, now if men shall ••••ep into publick Places and Trust, that are not so qualified they may execute it, an Office of ••rust is a very large word, it goeth to almost a Constable, if not altogether, it goeth far, now i•• any shall come that are not so qualified, they certainly do commit a breach upon your rule, and whether you will not thi k in this case that if any shall take upon them an Offi e of Trust, that a penalty shall be put upon them where he is excepted, by the general rule wheth••r you will not think it sit in that respect to deterr men from accepting of offices and places of trust contrary to that Article, the next is fetcht in some respects I may say by head and shoulders in your instrument, yet in some re∣spects it hath aff••nity with it, I may say I think is within your order upon this account, I am sure of it, there is a mention in ••••e last parts of your instrument, of your purpose to do many good things, I am confident not like the Gentl••man that made his last will, and set down

a great number of the names of men, that should re∣ceive benefit by him, and there was no sum at the latter end. I am confident you are resolved to deal effectual∣ly in the thing at the latter end, and I should wrong my own confidence, if a should think otherwise: I hope you will think sincerely as before God, that the laws may be regulated, I hope you will. We have been often talking of them, and I remembred well at the old Par∣liament, that we were three months, and could not get over the word Incumbrances and then we thought there was little hope of regulating of the law, when there wa•• such a difficulty as that, but surely the laws need be regulated, and I must needs say, I think it is a Sacri∣fice acceptable to God upon many accounts; and I am perswaded it is one thing that God looks for and would have. I confess if any man would ask me, why, how would you have it done? I confess I do not know how, but I think verily at the least, the delaies in suites, and the excessiveness in sees, and the costliness of suites and those various things, that I do not know what names they bear, I heard talk of demurrers and such like things which I scarce know; but I say certain∣ly, that the people are greatly suffering in this respect, they are so; and truly, if all this whole business of settlement, whatsoever the issue of it shall be, it comes as I am perswaded that it doth, as a thing that would please God by a Sacrifice in, or rather as an expressi∣on of our thankfulness to God: I am perswaded that this will be one thing that will be upon your hearts, to do something that is honourable and effectual in it, that truly I say, that it is not in your instrument in somewhat that relates to the reformation of man∣ners; you will pardon me my fellow souldiers that were raised upon that just occasion of the insurrection, not only to secure the peace of the Nation, but to see

that persons that were least likely, to help on peace or continue it, but rather to break; dissolute and loose persons, that can go up and down from house to house, and they are Gentlemens sons that have nothing to live on, and cannot be supplied to live to the profit of the Common-wealth, which I think had a good course taken with them, and I think that which was done to them was honourable, and honestly, and profitably done; and for my own part, I must needs say, it shewed the dissoluteness which was then in the Nation, as in∣deed it springs most from that part of the Cavaliers, should that party run on, and no care be taken to re∣form the Nation, to prevent perhaps abuses that will not fall under this consideration; we can send our children 〈◊〉〈◊〉 France, before they know God or good manners, and return with all the Licentiousness of that Nation; neither care taken to educate them before they go, nor to keep them in good order when they come home; indeed this m••kes the Nation, which not only com∣mitting those abominable things, most inhumane things amongst us, but hardens men to justifie those things: and the Apostle saith, not only to do wicked∣ly themselves, but take pleasure in them that do so; and truly, if something be not done in this kind, without sparing that condition of men, without spa∣ring mens Sons, though they be Noble mens Sons, let them be who they will is deboist, it is for the glory of God that nothing of outward consideration should save them in their debauchery, from a just pu∣nishment and reformation; and truly, I must needs say it, I would as much bless God to see some∣thing done, as to that heartily, upon this account, not only to those persons mentioned, but to all the Nation, that some course might be taken for refor∣mation, that there might be some stop put to such a

current of wickedness and evil as that is; and truly, to do it heartily, and nobly, and worthily: the Nobili∣ty of this Nation especially, and the Gentry will have cause to bless you, and likewise that some care might be taken, that those good Laws already made for the punishing of vice, may be effectually put in execution. This must I needs say of our Major Generals that do you service, I think it was an excellent good thing, I profess I do, and I hope you will not think it unwor∣thy of you, that when you have seen that, though you have good against the common countrey disorders, that are every where, who is there to execute them: really a Justice of peace, shall from the most be wondred at, as an Owl, if he go but one step out of the ordinary course of his fellow Justices, in the reformation of these things, and therefore I hope may represent that to you, as a thing worthy of your consideration, that some∣thing may be found out to suppress such things, I am perswaded you would glorifie God in it, as much as by any one thing you can do, and so I think you will pardon me. I cannot tell in this Ar∣ticle that I ••m now to speak unto, whether I speak to any thing or nothing: There is a desire that the pub∣lick Revenue be not alienated, but by the consent of the Parliament, I doubt publick Revenue is like Custodes libertatis Angliae, that is a notion only, and not to be found as I know of; but if there be any, and God bless us in our settlement, there will be pub∣lick Revenue accurring, and whether you will sub∣ject this no any alienation without the consent of the Parliament, is that which is offered to you; truly this thing that I have further to offer to you it is the last in this paper, and it is a thing that is mentioned in the 16. Article, that you would have those Acts and Ordinances

that have been made since the late troubles during the the time of them, that they should if they be contrary to this advice, that they should remain in such force, in such manner, as if this advice had not been given; why that that is doubted, is whether or no this will be sufficient to keep things in a settled condition, because it is but an implication, it is not determined, but you do pass by the thing without such a foundation as will keep those people which are now in possession of estates up∣on this account, that their Titles may be questioned and shaken, if that be not explained; and truly I believe you intend very sully in this business if the words already do not suffice, that I submit to your own advisement, but there is in this a very great consideration; there hath been since the Government several Acts, and Ordinan∣ces, that have been made by the exercise of that Legisla∣tive power, that was exercised since we undertook this government, and I think your instrument speaks a lit∣tle more faintly to these, and dubiously than to the o∣ther; and truly I will not make Apology for any thing, but surely two persons, two sorts of men will be meerly concern'd upon this account; that is, they that are ex∣ercised, and the persons who are the objects of that ex∣ercise, it dissettles them wholly, if you be not clear in your expression; in this business, it will dissettle us ve∣ry much to think that the Parliament; that doth not ap∣prove well of what h••th been done upon a true ground of necessity, as far as it hath saved this Nation from m••••ing in••o total arbitrariness, or subiect it to any sort of men that would perhaps do so. We think we have in th••t thing deserved well of the State, if any man w••ll ask ••e, but al•• Sir, what have you done since? why ah, as I w ll confess my f••ult where I am guilty, so I think taking the things as they were, I th nk we did the Co•••••••••• ••n wealth serv••ce, a••d we have in that made great

settlements, that have we, we have setled almost all the whole affairs in Ireland, the rights and interests of the souldiers there, and of the planters and adventurers; and truly we have setled very much of the busines of the Ministry, and I could wish that that be not to secure the grave men, I wish it be not, but I must needs say, if I have any thing to rejoyce before the Lord in this world, as having done any good, or service, I can say it from my heart; and I know I say the truth, that it hath been, let any man say what he will to the contrary, he will give me leave to enjoy my own opinion in it, and conscience, and heart, & dare bear my testimony to it, there hath not been such a service to England, since the Christian Religion was perfect in England I dare be bold to say it, however here and there, there may have been passion and mistakes, and the Ministers themselves, take the generality of them, they will tell it is besides the instructions, and we did take it upon that account, and we did not upon, to do that which we did, vir∣tute instituti as a Jure Divino, but as a civil good, but— so we end in this thing, we know not better how to keep the Ministry good, and to augment it to goodness, than to put such men to be Triers; men of known integrity, and piety, Orthodox men, and fai hful, we know not how better to answer our duty to God, and the Nation, and the people of God, in that respect in doing what we did, and I dare say if the grounds upon which we went, will not justifie us, the issue, and event of it doth abundantly justifie us, God having had exceed∣ing glory by it, in the generality of it, I am confident forty-fold; for as heretofore the men that have been admitted into the Ministry in times of Episcopacy, alas what pityful Certificates served to make a man a Minister; if any man could understand Latin, and Greek, it was as if he spake Welsh, he was sure to be admitted, which I think in those days went for Hebrew with a great many; but certainly the poorest thing in the world would serve turn, and a man was admitted upon such an account, I, and upon a less, I am sure the admission that had been to those places since, had been under this Character, as the rule that they must not admit a man, unless he be able to discern some of the Grace of God in him, which was so put to, as that it was not foolishly or senslesly, but so far as men could Judge according to the rules of Charity; but such a man whose good life and conversati∣on they could have a very good testimony of four or five of the neigh∣bour Ministers, who knew him, nor could they admit him, unless he could give a very good testimony of the grace of God in him; and to this I say, I must speak my conscience in it, though a great many are angry at it, all are angry at it, and how shall you please every body: then say some, none must be admitted, except perhaps he will be bap∣tized, this is their opinion, they will nor admit a man into a con∣gregation, except he be so much less to be a Minister; the Presbyte∣rian

he will not admit him, except he will be ordained, generally they will not go to the Independants; truly I think if I may not be partial, I think if there be a freedom of judgment, it is there. Here is three sorts of Godly men that you are to take care for, and that you have provided for in your settlement; and how could you now put it to the Presbyterians, but you must have done it with a pos∣sibility of exclusion of all those Anabaptists, and of the Independants; and now you have put it into the way, that if a man be of any of these judgments, if he have the root of the matter of him, he may be admitted; this hath been our care and work, by some Ordinan∣ces of ours, both laying the foundations of it, and many hundreds of Ministers being in upon it, and if this be a time of settlement, then I hope it is not a time of shaking, and therefore I hope you will be pleased to settle this business, that you will neither shake the persons that have been poorly instrumental, to call you to this opportunity of setling this Nation, and doing good to it; nor shake those honest mens interests that have been thus setled, considering so much good hath been wrought by them, and so I have done with the offers to you: But here is somewhat that is indeed exceedingly past my understanding, for I have as little skill in Arithmetick as I have in the Law; there is great sums it is well if I can count them to you. The present charge of the forces both by sea and land, inclu∣ding the Government, will be 2426989 l. the whole present Reve∣nue in England, Scotland, and Ireland, is about 1900000 l. I think this was reckoned at the most, as now the Revenue stands: Why now toward this, you settle by your instrument 1300000 l. for the Government, and upon that account to maintain the force by Sea and Land, and this without land Tax I think, and this is short of the Revenue, that now may be raised by the Government, 600000 l. because you see the present Government is 1900000 l. & the whole sum which may now be raised, comes of the present charge 542689, and although an end should be put to the Spanish War, yet there will be a necessity of the preservation of the Peace of the three Nations, to keep up the present established Army in England, Scotland, and Ireland, and also a considerable Fleet for some good time, until it shall please God, to quiet, and compose mens minds, and bring the Nation to some better consistency, so that conside∣ring the pay of the Army, coming to upwards 1100000 l. per annum, and the Government 300000 l. it will be necessary, that for some convenient time, seeing you find things as you do, and it is not good to think a wound healed before it be; that there should be rai∣sed over and above 1300000 l. the sum of 600000 l. per annum, which makes up the sum of 1900000 l. that likewise the Parlia∣ment declare how far they will carry on the Spanish War, and for what time, and what farther sum they will raise for the carry∣ing

on the same, and for what time, and if these things be not as••er∣tained, as one faith, money is the cause certainly, what ever the cause is, if money be wanting, the business will fall to the ground, & all our labour will be lost, and therefore I hope you will have a care of our undertakings

And having received expressions from you, that we may believe, we need not offer these things to you, that these things will be cared for, and these things have all of them been made overture of to you, and are before you, and so hath likewise the consideration of the debts, which truly I think are apparent, and so I have done, that I have to offer you; I think I have truly for my part, and when I shall un∣derstand where it own me to do further, and when I shall un∣derstand your pleasure in these things a little further, we have an∣swered the order o Parliament, in considering and debating of these things, that were the subject matter of debate and consideration, and when you will be pleased to let me here further of your thoughts in these things, then I suppose, I shall be in a condition to discharge my self, as God shall put in my mind, and I speak not this to evade, but I speak in the fear and reverence of God, and I shall plainly and clear∣ly, I say, when you shall have been pleased among your selves to take consideration of these things, that I may hear what your thoughts are of these things, I do not say that, as a condition to any thing, but I shall be very free, and honest, and plain, to discharge my self, of what in the whole, upon the whole, may reasonably be expected from me, and God shall set me free, to answer you in.

His Highness Speech to the Parliament in the Banqueting House at Whitehall, 8. of May 1657.

Mr. Speaker.

I Came hither to answer that, that was in your last paper to your Committee you sent to me, which was in relation to the desires which were offered to me by the House, in that they called their petition, I confess that business hath put the House, the Parliament to a great deal of trouble, & spent much time, I am very sorry that it hath cost me some, and some thoughts, and be∣cause I have been the unhappy occasion of the expence of so much time, I shall spend little of it now, I have the best I can resolved the whole business in my thoughts, and I have said so much already in testimony of the whole, that I think I shall not need to repeat any thing that I have said. I think it is a Government that the aims of it seeks much a setling the Nation on a good foot in relation to civil rights and liberties, which are the rights of the Na∣tion, and I hope I shall never be found to be of them that shall go about to rob the Nation of those rights, but to serve them what I can to the attaining of them. It hath also exceeding well provided for the safety & security of honest men, in that great, natural and religious liberty, which is liberty of

conscience, these are great fundamentals, and I must bear my testimony to them (as I have and shall do still so long as God lets me live in this world) that the intentions of the things are very honourable and honest, and the product worthy of a Parliament; I have only had the unhappiness both in my conferences with your Committees, and in the best thoughts I could take to my self not to be convicted of the necessity of that thing, that hath been so often insisted upon by you, to wit, the Title of King, as in it self so necessary, as it seems to be apprehended by your selves; and I do with all honour and respect to the Jugement of the Parliament, testifie that (caete∣ris paribus) no private judgement is to lie in the ballance with the judge∣ment of a Parliament; but in things that respect particular persons: every man that is to give an account to God of his actions, he must in some mea∣sure be able to prove his own work, that to have an approbation in his own conscience of that he is to do, or forbear, and whilst you are granting others liberties, surely you will not deny me this, it being not only a liberty, but a duty (and such a duty as I cannot without sinning forbear) to examine my own heart, and thoughts, and judgement, in every work which I am to set mine hand to, or to appear in or for.

I must confess therefore, that though I do acknowledge all the other, yet I must be a little confident in this, that what with the circumstances that accompany human•• actions, whether they be circumstances of time, or per∣sons, whether circumstances that relate to the whole, or private, or particu∣lar circumstances, that compass any person that is to render an account of his own actions; I have truly thought, and do still think, that if I should (at the best) do any thing on this account to answer your expectation, it would be at the best doubtingly: and certainly what is so is not of saith, whatsoever is not of faith is sin to him that doth it, whether it be with relation to the substance of the action, about which the consideration is con∣versant, or whether to circumstances about it, which make all think in∣different actions good or evil to him that doth it. I lying under this consi∣deration, think it my duty, only I could have wished I had done it sooner, for the sake of the House, who have laid so infinite obligations on it, I wish I had done it sooner for your sakes, for saving time and trouble; and indeed for the Committees sake, to whom I must acknowledge publickly I have been unseasonably troublesome, I say, I could have wished I had given it sooner, but truly this is my answer, that although I think the government doth consist of very excellent parts in all, but in that one thing the Title as to me, I should not be an honest man, If I should not tell you, that I cannot ac∣cept of the government, nor undertake the trouble or charge of it, which I have a little more experimented than every man; what troubles and diffi∣culties do b••fall men under such trusts, and in such undertakings, I say, I am perswaded to return this answer to you, That I cannot undertake this Government with the Title of a King, and that is mine answer to this gr••at and weighty business.

FINIS.