OF CHAP. 3.

How M. Darrells frendes haue sett out the pretended dispossessing of W. So.

The Disc. telleth vs of certaine counnterfeyts, as of a maid of Chester of one Mildred the base daughfter of Alice Norrington: of a Dvtch man with some others. Ergo concludeth he, Somers is a counterfeyt, & that superexcellent wonder which M. Darrels fauourers, euen those of the ouer∣worne Consistoryan faction magnifye somuch is a counterfeyt and lewde practise.

Page  20 Consideringe this very obiection is answered, and the absurditie thereof shewed in the narration, this man who taketh vpon him to conrute that saide treatise, shoulde rather haue shewed the weaknes of the narrators answer to this sayd obiection if so he could: then haue taken vp that stale obiection agayne. The narrator hath here tofore answered this argument thus: this followeth not, for we may with as good reason saye many haue not counterfeited,* therfore Somers did not counter∣feit 2 there could neuer any man counterfeit such thinges as Som in truth hath done. Hereunto I add, that Somers counterfeitinge followeth not here upon, except these thinges withall be true, first that this maide of Chester Mildred the Dutchman ct. counterfeited. Secondly that Som. & they carried themselues alyke: for if Sommers. were handled after a dif¦ferent manner from them, what letteth, that he might be no counter∣feite. although they had counterfeyted? Before then this argumente be of any force, the Disc. must shewe: that those Englysh and Dutch fol¦kes •e mentioneth, had a variable swellinge runninge all alonge their bodyes. and so of the rest of the rare accidentes whereof concerninge Som. we haue hearde: neither of which he hath perfourmed: And then also it followeth only probably. Againe, if this be a good reason, then is this also▪ I. N. publyshed a booke stuffed full of vntruthes. wherevp¦on it was called a legend of lyes: therfore. S. H. the publysher of this booke, hath so done.

Moreouer it is certaine that all those the Disc. here setteth down for counterfeits, did not counterfeit, yea I thinke none of them the mayd of Kent excepted. For the mayd of Chester, it is well knowen and to many, that shee counterfeited not. And howe doth he proue the Duchman, (concerninge whose possession and dispossession there is a booke printed,) to haue dissembled? forsooth Samuell Harsnet sayth so a substantiall proofe, and worthy argument sure. He himselfe confess∣eth that the Maior of maydstone (a towne in Kent) Nicasius Vandersch∣•ure (the minister of the duch church there (and Iohn Stikelbowe, with dy∣uers others did subscyibe to that pamphelet as he pleaseth to cal the boke aforesaide. The question and doubt nowe is whether we shall beleue this single man, and such also as we shal heare, or these other which I knowe not how many more. After this manner he proueth the rest he nameth to haue counterfeited. Although these had counterfeited it maketh nothing against vs, as hath bene shewed: yet who that is wise will beleue this mans report (for other proofe haue we none,) that they counterfeited, seeing he doth intimate no lesse by M. Throckm∣ortons children, whose vexation by Satan was so manifest and notori∣us? for marke what is sayde pag. 93. moreouer he had hearde and read (meaninge Som who suerly studied the arte of counterfeitinge) some Page  21 parte of a very ridiculus booke concerning one M. Throgmortons children (su¦pposed to haue bene bewitched by a woman of Warboyse (wherby he sayth that he learned some pointe, and was not ignorant as •ut occasion serued, to ascribe what he list to witches. And this againe the Disc telleth vs in the person of Somers.

It is twise affirmed that Som. learned some points from M. Throg∣mortons children, they therefore it is to be thought did counterfeit, for from whome are counterfeyt trickes to be learned but from counter feyts, and such as haue that skill in those worthy feyts, as they can act them themselues? And in particuler it is said, that from them hee learned to ascribe what hee list to witches:* viz. as they had donne before him. Agayne t•e Dis: denyeth that they were bewitched: for if they were but supposed to be bewitched, then were they not bewitched in∣dee•e. And yet it is manifest by many of their speaches and actions (mentioned in the printed booke concerning the witches of Warboys specially by their crying out vpon Allice Samuell the witch, they seem∣ed so to be. And therfore if they were not bewitched & vexed by the Deuill they counterfeited. In a worde looke into the printed booke and you shall fynde, that if they were not vexed with vncleane spi∣rits, they were most notorious counterfeyts, and such as before them neuer were, but saith the Disc. they were not bewitched or torment∣ed with euill spirits: confederating with some wicked man or woman there abouts ergo conclude I counterfeyts, and so indeede the Dis∣couerer meaneth: yet he thought it best and most for his safety becaus they were the children of an Esquier, not to say so in playne tearmes: as he doth likewise by M. Starchyes children in Lancashire. He nowe that would fayne haue the world deeme these for counterfeyts, (tho∣ugh for shame he dare not say so) considering whose children they were, the nomber 5. the tyme they were afflicted, aboue 3. yeares, their age being some of them about 9. or 10. yeares ould▪ the sun∣dry impossible thinges to be counterfeyted donne in appearance by them, as theire supernaturall swelling in their bodyes, &c. their sup∣ernaturall strength, knowledge, whereby it came to passe (to let o∣ther things goe) that one of them (M. Ioane by name) foretould that there should be twelue of them which should be bewitched in that house in one sort or other and named them all,* being all weomen kind, and seruants in the house, herself and her sisters being fyue of the number, all which pro∣ued afterwards very true, for they had all their seuerall greifs, and most• of them aff•licted in the same sort and manner as these fiue sisters were: & fur∣thermore that those seruants that came in their places, for the most parte of them were aff•licted in the like sort as the other, for the space of two years togeather: and that besides two of them M. Ioane and M. Iane Throgmor Page  22 •on were at the Assises at Huntington seene of the Iudge and Iustices in diuers •its, and M. Iane in her fit set in the court: both of them before such witnesses greuously tormented, most pittifully to behould: And lastly Alice Samuell (together with her husband and daughter) was not on¦ly found guilty by the Iury of bewitching them, but besides did her selfe at her execution confesse that shee had bewitched them,* and sente her spirit to torment them: Considering (I say) these thinges, and that these (with other) proofes, presumptions, circumstances, and reasons, pro∣uing their bewitching and vexation by the Diuell wereat largedeli-p¦uered before the Iudge, and therefore vpon oath: and after published to the world, and knowne (as it appeareth) to the Discouerer, what a shamefull thinge is it, and intollerable iniury donne to those gen∣tlewomen, and their parents yea to the Iurors and Iustices that con¦demned the witches, to affirme (in effect) and proclayme to all men, that they counterfeyted? And me thinketh one should not deale thus, and that aduisedly, except he thought that there were no witc∣hes, nor diuels, or at least that the diuels haue no power to torment men in their bodyes. But he that will not haue these 5, to be bewitch∣ed, but counterfeyts, (from whose counterfeyting Som• learned some of his tricks, and so not all of them from me) let him tell me in good earnest in his reply (if he be not ashamed to make any reply) what he thinketh of the Iaylor his man of Huntington, for seeing he was in all respects handled as the fiue children were, it is to be thought that if they were not bewitched nor vexed by the diuell, but did counterfeit, it was so likewise with him. That he was handled alike to them, and therfore their condition alike, appeareth by the euidence of the sayd Iaylor (vpon his oath) gaue, which is set downe in the booke entitu∣led, The Arraignment and execution of the witches of Warboyse: in thes wordes followinge. Then the Iaylor of Huntington gaue this euidence: that a man of his finding mother Samuell very vnruly whiles she was prisoner, at a time chayned her to a bed-poast: wherefore not long after his man fel sicke and in all respects was handled as the forenamed children were, with hea∣uing vp and downe of his body, shaking his armes, leggs and head, hauing more strength in him in his fitts, then any two men had, crying out of mother Samuell, saying that she did bewitch him: and thus remayning in this extr¦aordinary course of sicknes, about 5. or 6. dayes after dyed. If it fall out so that he say that this man counterfeyted too, and learned so to do of M. Throgmortons children (as Som. did in part) I thinke all that heare of it will laugh at his folly, And heere we may obserue how the Dis. to prooue Som. a counterfeyt, beareth vs in hand, first, that Tho. Dar¦ling, Kath. Wright, M. Couper, and the 7. in Lancashire were counter∣feyts, Secondly the maid of Chester, Mildred &c. In a worde, that all Page  23 vexed indeede by the diuell, on this side and beyond the seas, among vs and the papists were counterfeyts, ergo (saith he) Somers countersey¦ted. And this is, his mayne and generall argument. The antecedent or first parte whereof I deny, and doe desire the Bishop and S. H. to proue that, and then I will giue them the conclusion, and all they contend for.

For-asmuch as M.* Darrells frends doe so oft alleadge Tertullian. S Cypryan. S. Ambrose. S. Austen. S. Chrisostome, with Prosper, &c. it is not amisse to heare what Kemnitius (writing against the counsell of Trent) saith of this point, Exorcistas ct. They haue transformed their Exorcists in to magicall Inchanters. In times past it was a peculiar guift to cast out di∣uells out of mens bodyes by the voyce of man, and power of god. And the same guift continued in the church in the times of S Cypryan, S. Ambrose S. Augustine, S. Chrisostome, and of Prosper: Obsessi in templum addu∣cebantur, et saepe communibus ecclesiae precibus liberabantur: The po¦sessed were brought into the church, and were often-times deliuered by the common-prayers of the church: postea illud demum &c. But afterwards (saith he) that guift ceased. If M. Darrell haue againe obteyned it, let him make much of it.

The Dis▪ perceyuing that besides the holy scriptures, the aunc¦ent fathers are not only for possession in these dayes, I meane synce myracles ceased, but also for dispossession by earnest prayer: thought good to make shewe of this, that the testimonyes we alleadge out of the auntient writers are peruerted, & make not for vs at all: & why? Kemnitius saith so.

I answere, Peter Marter as greate a diuine as he, (to let others goe) af∣firmeth the contrary, as before we haue hearde. where is now this ar∣gumente, yf I shoulde saye no more? but for our better satisfaction, let vs consider what Keminitius sayth,* and how trulye. The same guifte sayth he (meaning that power ouer vncleane spirits, giuen by Christs to his Apostles) contiued in the church in the times of Tertullian Ciprian Ambrose. Aust•n, ct. Howe can this be so, seinge to cast out diuels as the Apostles did &c. by a worde is a miracle. & that miracles were cea¦sed be fore there tymes? we may remember that when and to whom this peculiar guift to cast diuels out of the bodyes of men was giuen, then and to the same persons was there withall giuen, to heale euery sick∣nesse and euery disease. for asmuch then as Tertullian Ciprian, Ambros Augustine, Chrisostom, Prosper, had not the guyft to heale sycknesses and diseases, to giue sight to the blyndect. It can not therfore be that these fathers had this Apostolicall guift, as Kemnitius affirmeth, & the Dis. woulde haue it▪ yea the thinge it selfe sheweth the contrary, and Kemnitius (& the Dis. with him) ouerthroweth him selfe in his owne Page  24 wordes▪ The possessed (saith he) were brought into the church in the times of those fathers, and were often times deliuered by the common prayers of the churche.* Did the Apostles cast out Satan thus? or rather hauinge au∣thoritie ouer the diuils, commauned them in the name of Iesus to go forth, and immediatly they departed? yf these fathers had the same guifte wyth the Apostles, as is here affirmed, why did they not vse it in the same manner, and with like successe that they did. I meane, the present and spedy dellyuerance of the partie possessed? but cast Sa∣than out after another māner, with more longer delay, greater help• then euer the Apostles did or had? For howe•oeuer there is not men¦tion made in the scriptnres of all those the Apostles dispos•e•sed by farr, yet by infallible reasons taken out of them, it is cleare, that the Apostls did not deliuer any that were possest by the common prayers of the churche as it is here said of these auncient fathers, They had a more readie and easie way to driue out the vncleane spirit of what kinde so euer it was.* ct. by a worde, yea some times lesse sufficed. which as it did more set forth their authoritie and power ouer wicked spirits, so it commended also their doctrine and ministrie,* aboue this e•e••ing of satan by praier, espetially beinge assisted therin by others. It can not therefore be that the Apostles did at any time dispossesse sathan by the publique praiers of the church as is here affirmed, and that truly, of those fathers: Nowe what doth these thinges argue but this, that howesoe∣uer the same expulsiō of Diuels out of mens bodyes continued in the churche, and was in the times of Tertullian Ciprian Ambrose Chrisostom &c. yet the Apostolicall power ouer Diuels, was before tho•e times gone, and no man then guifted with that power: If in these deliueran∣ces by the publick praiers of the church whereof Kemnitius speaketh •er¦tullian Ciprian ct. had any pecular guift as it is here sayde: I demaund of the Dis. (for Kemnitius is dead, and he is of his iudgment otherwis he would not haue alleadged him) first, what this guift was, for the the same that the Apostles had (notwithstanding they both say it) it is cleare it was not. 2. why rather one of these should haue a guift in casting out diuels, then the people or any of them that ioyned with them in such expulsyon, seeing the meanes whereby Sathan was cast out was prayer, and that the people present, prayed & intreted god in this behalfe, as well as these their leaders, and their prayers were not in vayne, but as well preuailed with god, as the supplycations & intercessions of their ministers: for what though percase the prayers of these holye men were more feruent, and by consequent auayled more with god, then the requests made by any priuate christian: shall we therfore ascribe such expulsiō of the diuell to one perticular man, and therewithall I knowe not what speciall guift therein? what is this Page  25 in effecte but to make the praiers of the rest of gods people present• as speaches spoken in the ayere, and beatinge it, and such as god rega•¦deth not?. 3. seinge by the Dis. owne secret confession, men were pos∣sessed in Tertullian Ciprian, &ct. there dayes, why not now? 4: Seeinge in the dayes of these auncient fathers, men were dispossessed and Sa∣tan cast ovt by the prayers of the faithfull. why maye not men be dis∣possessed nowe vpon the vsinge of the same meanes? were the pray∣ers of gods people then mightie with god to the expellinge of Sath an and are they of no force nowe? or rather is it impossible they shou¦lde preuayle so nowe, and in these our dayes, as the Dis. because Kem¦nitius. saith so, will needes haue it? In a worde, what letteth it that men may not nowe in this our time be dispossessed by prayer, or pra¦er and fastinge as well as when Tertullian Ciprian, Ambrose Chrisost¦ome, Augustine and Prosper liued. 2 seinge that in their dayes miracles were ceased, and an end put to them as well as nowe: and that these fathers had no more a guifte to worke miracles, then M. More & my selfe, whome God hath pleased (amonge others) to vse in the lyke work. These questions I desire the Disc. to answer, and I will expecte it at his handes if euer he replie: excepte he be contente in plaine & expresse termes to yelde to this truthe. And thus we see that rather then the Disc, will haue nothinge to saie against dispossession in these daies, he will bring vs yet the error at least of one man: & that he saith so it is inoughe (forsooth,) because he was otherwise greatly learned But howe proueth the Disc,* this out of the holy scriptures? which se∣inge he doth not, nor I trust can not, it is because there is no light in him, yet wysely must we obserue here what Kemnitius error is, least we shoulde doe iniurye euen to the deade. Herein he said then very truly that the guift is ceased: and very fitly also against the Papist, (a∣gainst whome he writ) whose exorcists chalenge such a guift, where vp on as did the Apostles, so doe they ad•vre or charge the spirits to goe out, only herein he spake as a man and mistooke the matter: first in that he tooke this guift to continue in the church vntill and in the a∣foresaid fathers times. 2 in that he thought (as it seemeth) that there is no castinge out of Diuels now, becaus that guift is ceased for besides that extrordinarie and miraculus kinde of eiection of sathan, which beinge temporarie, continued only in the churche whiles other mira∣cles lasted, and together with them had an end, which was longe be∣fore some of these fathers dayes: There is an other ordinarie and per¦petuall. viz. by prayer, or praier and fastinge. By this meanes and af∣ter this manner the aboue named fathers in ther times cast out diuels and not by any peculyar and miraculus guift bestowed vpon them, continuinge in the church vntill theire dayes. And thus are or may be Page  26 euil spirits cast forth at this daye. and whereas he scornefully addeth If M Darrell haue againe obtained it, meaning that peculiar guift to cast out Diuels, which the Apostles had: let him make much of it: I in good earnest answere, that as I haue no such guift nor yet any spetiall guift herein aboue the least of my brethren or priuate christian: so neither euer did I from the first time that I dealt in the dispossessinge of any arrogat any peculiar guift to my selfe. but haue from time to time cast the same as farr from me as I could both with my tongue and pen. 2 by the carriage of my selfe in this action I haue shewed no lesse. and herein may all men be confirmed as by my whole treatise before con¦cerninge dispossession: so by that is here aforesaide: Greatly then are they to blame, which charge me with challenging I knowe not what guift in casting out Deuils: