A treatise against iudicial astrologie Dedicated to the right Honorable Sir Thomas Egerton Knight, Lord Keeper of the great Seale, and one of her Maiesties most honorable priuie Councell. VVritten by Iohn Chamber, one of the prebendaries of her Maiesties free Chappell of VVindsor, and fellow of Eaton College.

CHAP. VI.

That they cannot be verie confident in their owne Arte, as not knowing which to chuse for their worke, whether the conception or the birth: where also are recited other times of alteration not inferiour to the birth-houre.

FOr this and such like causes, some haue thought more reason to take direction frō the conception, which seemeth indeed to stand with much better reason then the natiuity, euen by Ptolemies iudgement in his Apote∣lesmata, in these words: When the temporall beginning of a man is to be appointed na∣turally and properly, that must be when the seed is re∣ceiued into the wombe, but improperly and acciden∣tally, when the child is borne. Whosoeuer therefore shall vnderstand the houre when the seede was recei∣ued, he ought rather to follow that hower, in iudging the proprieties of the bodie and mind, and to consider the figure of heauen at that time. Hitherto Ptolemie: Who in this cause is the rather to be listened to, be∣cause of all he is counted Captaine in this kind: and

as Homer saith of Chalcas, Iliad. lib. primo, vers. 60.

—〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.

But because he knew how hard a thing it is for the A∣strologer to get the true time of conception, for feare he might infringe their diuinations and predictions by the birth, he straight way addeth this colour. But they that know not the conception, they must whe∣ther they will or no flie to the natiuitie. Haly in his booke de Electionibus confesseth plaine, the effectuall way of telling destinies, to be in the cōception: which because the Astrologers know not, they are glad to take hold of the natiuitie. Moreouer, when the A∣strologers are vrged with the obiections of twinnes, who though their birth be all one, yet often haue di∣uers and contrarie euents, they are wont to answere, that the diuersitie of euents in twinnes dependeth of their diuers conceptions. Notwithstanding some of them will by no means admit the conception, because no man is able to say, whether the conception went together with the seed or otherwise. For it may be in a moment, as when we see grease put into the fire, it by and by kindleth; it may be also some good while af∣ter: for the seed which is cast in the ground, doth not by and by sprout, and take roote in the clods. And since there is some distance betwene the mouth and bottome of the mother, where conception is made, the seed must haue some time for passing this distāce; which time because our Chaldeans knowe not, they can neuer rightly know the cōception. And if, as some Physitians hold, there be a kind of concoction, and preparation required of the seed in the mother, before

there can be any conception: seeing these great crafts∣men know not how much time is necessarie and requi∣site to this preparation, they must needes be ignorant of the time of conception. Farther, as in other parts of their bodies women differ one from another, for the operations of the parts: so it is more then probable, that they haue the like differēce in the operatiō of the mother, wherby some are more quicke, and some more slow in conception: and euen in one and the same wo∣man, it may be that she is sometimes more easie, and sometimes more hard to conceiue, and sometime will not conceiue at all. This being so, by no means can we exactly attaine to the time of conception, that there∣by we might set a figure. Neither can it be said, that the time of conception can be knowne by certain signes, as by the straightnesse of the mouth of the mother, by the staying of the menstrua, by their longing, &c. for all these happen very commonly to them which haue not conceiued. But suppose they did not happen verie commonly, yet because they signifie the conception, when many dayes are past, they can neuer bring vs to the true houre which we seeke. But the Astrologer to foretel the future casualties of anies life must know the time not with a latitude, and ghesse, but the verie instant, and perfectly. Hence it is plaine that the figure cannot be well framed by the cōception, as much may be said against the birth-time. But if they should fol∣low in these predictions the conception, then should they be quickely at a stand, because the time of con∣ception is much harder to obtaine for the most part. It is also to be noted, that beside the conception, the child hath diuerse times of notable alteration before

the birth, which might seeme rather to be regarded then the birth: for at the first it is called for sixe dayes space 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, in which time it retaineth the name of seed, as you may reade in Galen 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. lib. 1. After that, it groweth to a kind of fleshly substance, making some confused shew of hart, braine, and liuer, at which time it is called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Thirdly, the heart, head, and liuer be∣ing perfected, and the other members beginning to come, it is called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Lastly, when all the members being finished, it beginneth to stirre and moue, it is called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. To euery one of these foure times, some, as Conciliator, and Aegidius Romanus, and some others, haue appointed a certaine number of dayes, which I meane not to stand vpon, as being a thing not allow∣ed by Galen. In conclusion, they adde out of Auicen. lib. 9. de Animalibus, that the time of quickening is double to the time of forming; & the time of birth double to the time of quickening. As if you would deuide the whole time into seuen equall parts, alotting one of thē to the formation, which they account commonly for∣tie daies; & two mo to the quickning which they rec∣ken to be dayes 120, and the fourth left to the birth, which put to the rest, maketh in the whole 280. that is, in moneths 9½, or there about. These times being thus notorious, and so limited, might seeme to giue as much direction as can be looked for of the natiuity: yet because none of them can be obtained certainly, all men leaue them and fly to the natiuity: in which they thinke they haue great vantage, though it be far otherwise, as hath been shewed.

Again, that which hath bin said of the diuerse times of the child in formation, may generally be prosecuted

thus. Of things which perfected in time, not in a mo∣ment, or instant, the destinie must needs be doubtfull: of the which hower notwithstanding they pronounce as definitiuely, as if there were no doubt. For that may be taken for the fatall hower, either wherein the effici∣ent cause beginneth the thing, or in which the thing is consummate and perfected. Farther, wee are to consi∣der, that diuers partes haue their diuers beginnings, which are not finished all at once, but one after ano∣ther in order, which in generall, as I said, we may hold to be true in all things. Now in a man how many and how diuerse fatal beginnings, as they terme them, may there be? As First, when the man and woman lie toge∣ther, then with the seede which is admitted into the wombe. Thirdly when the seede worketh the womans excrement into a childe: as whē milke is curdled with the earning: Fourthly when the childe is couered ouer with membranes and vilmes: Fiftly when the heart first appeareth: Sixtly when the soule commeth to it, which is the fittest time of all: Farther when it begin∣neth to be a man then it consisteth of matter, & forme, which accomplish the ful substance of it: The last time of al, & the least to be regarded is the birth-time. Not∣withstanding this time as being no subiect to sence, haue the Astrologers preferred and chosen as most fit for their predictions: but how wisely, may easily ap∣peare; seeing time doth neither begin, nor make nor perfect a man, but only shew him to the world, being already made and perfected. For this cause no doubt Ptolemy attributeth more to the conception then to the birth apotelesm. lib. 3. as hath bin alleaged be∣fore.

But their vnsetlednesse, and wauering in their owne art, may best appeare in sicke men, whose recouery or Death they professe to foretell. For that being a point depending vpon the natiuitie as much as any one thing: yet they leaue that commonly, and insteed of it take the hower, when the sicke man first begin∣neth to be sicke, vpon which beginning they make di∣uerse and doubtfull disputes: some taking it for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the first assault of the disease, which wil not serue their turne, as being 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, without latitude, nor partible, which slippeth away before the figure can be set: others taking it for the space of three or foure first daies: others determining it by signes of con∣cortion, but all these waies they seing to lie open to many exceptions, some of them fly ad horam decubitus, when the sicke man first taketh his bed: which con∣ceit in my opinion is the deceatfullest of all. For sup∣pose two fall sicke at once, the one of the plague, the other of the gowt, following this way they must needs both dye, or both escape, although we see how many die of the plague, and how few of the gowt. Againe, if this way were good, what an aduantage had the figure-flinger of all the world, who by taking his bed, when he list, might put off death for euer, if he would. For if he sawe an ill hower, he might take another time so∣ner or later as he pleased, and so playe boe peepe with death. Here belike is true the meaning of that, Sapiens dominabitur astris, a wise man is aboue the stars. If such wisards may gouerne the starres, and hea∣uen, we may well pittie them in those words: O domus antiqua quam dispari dominaris domino? O heauenly house hard is thy case, by maisters such to haue dis∣grace.

Are not the starres wise to giue wisdome against themselues? Farther, if the hora decubitus differ in two persons, belike the one shal scape, and the other shall die: and if the hora decubitus differ in three, thē one shal scape, another shall die, and what shall become of the third? And if the case be put of moe, then the doubt wilbe greater, Ita male instituta ratio exitum reperire non potest; so hard it wilbe to come clearely out of an ab∣surditie.