A treatise against iudicial astrologie Dedicated to the right Honorable Sir Thomas Egerton Knight, Lord Keeper of the great Seale, and one of her Maiesties most honorable priuie Councell. VVritten by Iohn Chamber, one of the prebendaries of her Maiesties free Chappell of VVindsor, and fellow of Eaton College.

CHAP. V.

That the birth-time, and the time for obseruing the Horo∣scopus must be a precise time, and not with a latitude onely.

TO salue this, if they will reply, that they stand not so much vpon the precise and perfect point of time, as vpon a time considered more laregely, and in some rea∣sonable latitude, then the ele∣ments and effects of their predi∣ctions shall sufficiently refell and conuince them. For of them that haue beene borne together in the same time with some latitude of time, all haue not led the same life: but some of them, for example, haue reigned like Kings: others haue rotted in prison. There were not many Alexanders, nor Pla∣toes,

nor Aristotles at once, although no doubt manie were borne at the same time with euerie one of them. For beside heauen, vnder which, as a generall cause, both the Philosophers of Athens, and the hogs of Boe∣otia were borne, Aristotle had other more immediate and peculiar causes. For first he had both a good soule, and a good body, but of heauen neither, but as of an vniuersall cause; for his soule, he had it of God, as hee had his bodie of his parents. He gaue himselfe to phi∣losophie, not forced by the heauens, but induced of his owne will. He also profited in Philosophie excee∣dingly, but that was by reason of his paines and stu∣die: but many that studied as much, profited nothing like, that may be, because he had a better master, and mo helpes. But he passed all his schoolefellowes and equals: for that no doubt hee had a better wit, which he receiued of God, not of any constellation. The like may bee said for Alexander. His victorie against the Persians, & his good successe against the Indians were maruellous. They were so, yet such as no starre but his princely vertues did effect; for he excelled in cou∣rage and Art Militarie, he had a notable Armie trai∣ned vp vnder his father Philip, which for his bountie and vertues loued him most dearely. Againe, he had to deale with dastardly people; so that his vncle said of him, that hee fought with women, not with men. Wherefore if the figure-flinger giue the birth-time som latitude, he can neuer certainly say, that he which is borne at such a time, shal be fortunate and happie, since many borne at the very same time, were verie vn∣happie and miserable. Neither on the other side can he pronounce him poore and needie that was borne

in such an hower, since diuerse borne in the same houre, liued all their life long in great abundance and plentie. Neither would it a little trouble the figure-flinger, if one should retort the argument thus: If they which haue the same constellation, must needs haue the same haps and euents; then they which haue di∣uers constellations, must haue diuers and different euents and successe, which is false. For we see many, though differing in yeares, bodily forme, and manie other wayes, yet haue come to the same end; to wit, either by fight in warre, shipwracke, fall of houses, or such like. Neither may they here reply, that some one, whose destinie was to be drowned, was the cause that all the rest were cast away with him. For why should this mans destiny preuaile against the destinies of all the rest? & why were they not as wel all saued for some one mans destinie, who was to perish by land? Lastly, some haue gone about to entangle them with a que∣stion or obiection of bruit beasts. If the course of life and effects be guided by constellations; if in the same constellation be borne a man and an asse, they must both trie the same fortune of life, and not the man to be aduanced in honour and ease, the poore asse in the meane time carying burthens, and his backe full of stripes: therefore either our life is not guided by the starres, or if it be, no body can tell how. Againe, while the child is in the mothers wombe, it is subiect to many diseases and quames, I would aske the figure-flinger, if he can foretell the accidents; I would know of him also, whether he can tell what day, and what houre the child shall be borne: for these things de∣pend as much of the starres, as any thing after it is

borne. These things and such like he must say either that hee can, or cannot tell. If he cannot, then wee haue our purpose: if he say he can, then wee aske him how: for the natiuitie hee cannot be guided by, which is yet vnknowne to him, the child not being yet borne.