The second replie of Thomas Cartwright: agaynst Maister Doctor Whitgiftes second answer, touching the Churche discipline

The 5. Tract. and 6. vn the O.

Off preaching Mynisters.

HEere may be iustly renewed the complaint of the prophet / * 1.1 that the preists did not onely them selues not execute their charge / according to the lawes giuē in that behalf: but ga¦ue those also entrance / to whom the lord had vtterly denied it. For yt is not enough for the D. to feed hym selff / and others with the bloud off the church / in defense off the vnlawfull absence off the Pastor: onles by this maintenance off vnpreaching ministers / as yt were by banner spred / he make a feast theroff vnto all the raue∣ning / and Cormorant foules in the land. And so as if it were a small thing / to beare the condemnation off his owne parishes: he stretcheth owt his hand / to haue part in the gilt off others. And although this defense may seem to be gyuen to thes wofull readers: yet if we gyue a litle heed / we shall easely perceiue / that both this puddle / ād others which depend vpō it / returne to fill if it were possible / the Ocean sea off non residents. For nō residence would bring litle ether to filling off cofres / or bathing off them in the delightes off the world / or to what other thing soeuer they in their absence propound: vnles there were such hungry knightes / as would for a crust of bread / supply this absence. Now for remouing off thes sweepinges owt off the church ministery / we must come backe to a diuis. towching this matter.

Where yt is saied that the people need not pine away for lacke off foode, seing they haue one to reade, &c: yt is but a begging off that * 1.2 in question. for is this the diet which God hath appointed to his children / or portion he hath commaunded his faithfull seruantes to gyue vnto his family in due season / or that delicate table / and * 1.3 cup that runneth ouer? are thes the housholders which before they set vp / or take the charge off housekeping / haue filled all the ir garners / furnished all their cellars / frawght all their threasu¦ries with all store newe and oulde / fitte to enterteine the sonnes / and dawghters off the great kinge off heauen? we is vnto that hows holde that hathe such a stewarde / and wo shall be vnto that stewarde that vppon suche prouision / vndertaketh the steward∣shippe off the howse off God. But wo and wo againe shall be to him / that not onely him selfe famisheth the how sholde which he hathe / but teacheth others to doo so: and not onely doth euill /

but iustifieth the euill doer. A. great parte off the D. alowance here / cometh to be examined after: as that bare reading is not a∣ble without Gods extraordinary worke / to deliuer one sowle / and that homilies are not seruiceable in this solemne bancket.

Now to runne throwgh the reste / I answer prayers, and Sacramentes forasmuche as they take effecte by the preachinge off the worde / where that is not / those doo not onely not feede / but are ordinarily to further condemnation. That whiche the Curates can gyue before they haue learned their Cathechisme (of wiche ty∣me is here spoken) is poison and no meate: so that hetherto they maie pyne / for any thinge that the Answ. setteth before them / in suche sorte especially as he settethe yt. All the hope therfore off delyueringe them from famyn / hangeth vppon the well disposed preacher, whiche if he feede another flocke withe the hin∣derance off his owne / or hauinge no flocke goe abowte in cir∣cuite whether so euer he thincketh good: I will not dente but the one and the other maie haue a good meaninge therin / but whether the lorde alowe off it (onles he be able to shew the se∣ale off some extraordinary calling) I leaue yt to be considered / of that which hathe bene before disputed. I omit that I know my selfe / that within seuen myles of Cambridge / there haue bene pa∣rishes where one off thes sermons was not / in fowre whole ye∣ares. Which if y•• be so neere Cambridge / where the greatest number off those preachers be: what is to be thowghte off other places off the Realme?

Onles yow counte euery reproche / and raylinge worde an argumente / here is no worde to proue, that yt is meete to enioyne my∣nisters to learne Cathechismes: that is to saye / to proue that they maie be ministers off the worde / before they haue learned the Christi∣an A. B. C. which children off seeen yaere olde in reformed chur∣ches / can answer vnto. They are necessarie poinctes wh•• he are tawgh∣te there. So ys the A. B. C. to him whiche will learne to reade. they are the weightieste thinges in our Religion. Els they coulde not be the foundations whiche vphold the whole buildinge. To haue saide somethinge yow shoulde haue saide / they are the hardeste / and difficulteste poinctes off religion, but that yow can not / those be∣inge

without the circuite off a Cathechisme. I am contente ther∣fore yow shall praise the booke withe what wordes yow will: but when yow haue doon / looke that yow leaue yt a Catechisme / that is to saie a treatise of the firste elemētes / or A. B. C. off Chri∣stianitie. And then yt followeth / that yowr enioyninge off yowr mynisters to learne it: doth necessarily presuppose ignorance off those thinges / the wante off knowledge wheroff in that age / not onely owghte to remoue them from the colledge off mynisters: but leaueth them no place till they be better instructed / to syt a∣mongest the Christians. And if yow thinke this no discredite at all, yow haue yowr credite seperate from the credite off the churche: whiche is discredited / dishonored / yea vtterly destroied by suche blinde eyes. And I maie further saie / that he whiche thinketh this no discredite, maie be feared to seeke credite in the ignorance off the mynisters: whilest amongeste such a blinde companie / his sighte maie be somewhat / ād whilest he maie vse their simplicitie / to the establishmente off that tyranny / which a learned mynistrie wo∣ulde neuer beare.

But because the Ans. can saie nothinge / let vs heare what the Heluetian confession (fully repeted againe 253. and yet againe 484. mentioned also the fowrth time) saithe for them. vvee condemne all vnmeete mynisters, not indued vvith gyftes necessarye for a shepherd, that shoulde feede his flocke. What doo I heare? doo yow condemne all / &c? hearken Maister D. heere is sentence off condemnation gyuen off those / whiche yow defende. Was there no easier worde to vse but condemninge? yf they had onely saide they approued them not / speakinge owte off the worde off God / as they doo yt had bene a shrewde blowe. But in sayinge flatt'y that they condemne them: they haue saide what they coul∣de / for the vtter sweepinge them owte of the church / as longe as yt standeth. And take this also with yow / that in condemninge them / they condemne the making / and defence of them Thus our ignorante ministers haue once passed the condemnation off the churches and in this condemnation they lie / and shall lie as lon∣ge as the worde off God remaineth / if all men in the worlde wo∣ulde absolue them. But let vs heare whether they be repriued by

the iudgemente of these churches / or whether they giue any par∣don / which gaue the condemnation.

There followeth that they allovve better off the harmeles symplicitie off some, then off the exquisite learning off others, ioyned vvithe pride. And worthily. For nether can pride agree withe manners off the minister off God: and harmles symplici∣tie maie well agree / with a competent learninge meete for that function. In the ende they conclude / that they reiecte not the good symplicitie of certein, so they be not altogether vnskilful off God, and his vvorde. Firste this can make nothinge for ex∣cuse off our mynisters. For when they are to learne their Cate∣chisme / and the principles off Christian Religion / what know∣ledge is left vnto them off God / and off his worde? Then yt is li∣ke / that by harmles symplicitie they meane some rare / and singu∣lar holines / wherby they goo as farre beyond the other in life / as they come behinde them in learninge: whiche all see to be other∣wise in our ignorante ministers / oftentimes the maisters off mis∣rule to all the parishe. Otherwise they knewe what Ierome sai∣the / * 1.4 that in that S. Paule requireth that a bishop shoulde be vvise, he barreth those vvhich vnder the name off symplicitie, excuse the folie off mynisters.

Laste off all by that skill off God / and off his worde / they muste needes vnderstande suche giftes / as are necessarie for a shepherd to feede his flocke: whiche is habilitie to teache / to ex∣horte / to conuince the aduersarie: and if he haue those / althoughe he haue not the knowledge off tounges / and artes / in the name off God let him haue the chaire. And suche I confesse our churche hathe had / and hathe some / but they are very rare: and off thes I doubte not but the confession meaneth. Nether can they be with∣owte manifeste iniurie / thowghte to receiue those whiche they had before condemned. for shall wee saie off them that with o∣ne mouthe / yea with one breathe they blewe whout / and kolde? wheruppon I conclude / that the condemnation beinge heere greater then the pardon / and the wound wider then the plaister: yow were verie neere driuen / when yow were compelled to vse the testimonie off thes churches / to couer the nakednes off the ig∣norante

mynisters▪ your notable slaunder off the Adm. I am con∣tente shall (as yow saie) reste in the readers iudgmente. That I haue gathered yowr argumente faithfully / towchinge the lear∣ninge off Catechismes / is shewed before. There foloweth the 2. diuis. (the first being a blank) where beside the causes by him as∣signed * 1.5 of want off able Ministers / be to no pourpose / considering that we shewe there can be no cause off instituting a reading mi∣nistery / and be also owt off place / considering that he shoulde haue opposed them / to those which I alledged in that behalf: that * 1.6 which onely was materiall / that we be in cause off that fewnes, is one∣ly saied.

Where I alledged owt off S. Paul / that yt is an expresse commaundement that a pastor should be able to teach, and * 1.7 conuince gaynsayers, and therfore to be broken vpon no occa∣sion: he answereth that S. Paul sheweth the qualities off a pastor, but saieth not that we may not haue reading Pastors, if there be none, or not a suf∣ficient nombre in whom all those qualities concur. Then which what can be more bluntly saied? For this being a generall rule / he owght to haue shewed where the Lord gyueth leaue to take vnteaching mynisters / contrary vnto the tenor off this commaundement: which he is neuer able to doo. For the scripture commaunding the pastors should be able to teach / and conuince doth forthwith shutowt all other: it being a generall rule / that it both commaun∣deth the contrary off that it forbiddeth: and forbiddeth the con∣trary off that yt commaundeth. And there is no commaunde∣ment in the scripture / which may not be eluded by the D. answ∣er. For thus yt may be sayed / that we may haue images in chur∣ches to teach the ignorant: for that although the lord forbid them / yet he hath not saied that where there are none / or not a suf∣ficient numbre off able teachers / we may not haue such suppli∣es. Those also which pressed with extreame hunger seeke remedy in stealing / finde him their proctor. For the lord hath not saied in so many wordes / that one which is hungerbitten / may not steale as much as will saue his life. But when all commaundementes be generall in the scripture / albeit they haue not alwaies the v∣niuersall note off All / or None: onles there be some exception de∣clared

/ this off the sufficiency off the pastor / being not onely vni∣uersall / but vniuersally propounded / is better armed against all thes fond cauils. For our sauiour declaring that euery one inst∣ructed * 1.8 as a scribe vnto the kingdome off God / owght to be pro∣uided aforehand with store off doctrine / and iudgement to apply yt according to the present occasion: doth gyue manifestly to vn∣derstand / that no one may be receiued into the order off pastors / which is not able to teach his flocke.

And the D. may as well say / that in default of sober / chast / and quiet pastors / they may chuse dronckards / whoremongers / swas∣hbucklers: as that in default off a teaching pastor / they may take vnteaching. Yea rather may he say the one then the other / cōside∣ring that sobriety / chastitie / and quietnes are commen with him to all Christians: but abilitie to teach / and confute are his proper duties. Therfore although thes be both vntollerable / yet the ch∣urch receiueth les harme / by pastors which infected with 〈◊〉〈◊〉 doo teach: then by them which free from thes / are vtterly vnable to teach. For the good life off the pastor withowt doctrine / whe∣rby they may be both tawght to put their trust in god / and see the good workes they should follow / is as a faire coulor withowt li∣ght to shewe yt by / vtterly vnprofitable: where the word truly preached / shineth oftentimes clearer in the heartes / then the clo∣wde of the pastors disordered life / cā stay the fruict of. And albeit all commaundementes off God / are such as may not for any cau∣se be broken: yet this S. Paul gyueth off the Pastor / hath a spe∣ciall fense cast abowt yt / wherby it might be kept in greater safe∣ty. For the spirit of God / foreseing this shamefull prophanation off the ministery / together with the present daunger vnto the ch∣urch / vseth a preface to this description of the pastors office / vsed rarely / and but in matters of greatest stablenes / saying yt is a cer¦tein doctrine. As if he should say / that which foloweth is an vn∣uariable / * 1.9 and vnchangeable rule / which can by no autoritie of men / for any cause not onely be brokē / but not so much as bowed / or once vvrinched a side.

His reason that Paul was glad those preached, which swarued frō * 1.10 that rule, beside that I haue shewed it ridiculous: is here owt of pla¦ce / cōsidering that thes readers which would haue rēt his heart

in peeces / being ordeined with breach off the rule off God could not cheare him vp againe by preaching: wherunto they are as fit as an oxe to flie. Witnes the D. him selfe / which addeth that our ig¦norant ministers may by study so profit in knowledge, that they may be able priuately to exhort Where yt is merueilons to see how he fometh owt their shame / whom he hath taken to his defense. Yf he had saied / that in time with study they might be able to preach: yet forsomuche as while that grasse groweth / the people perish / his answer had bene vntollerable. Now gyuing no further hope / then that in time they will be able priuately to admonish / * 1.11 which euery Christian owght to doo: he hath gyuen sentence off them / that they will neuer be able to doo the worcke off Pastors / wheroff they beare the name: that is that they will neuer be but idoles. What they doo by reading is after to be seen. The place of Osea which resecteth from the ministery / those that haue not kn∣••••••••••ge * 1.12 off the lawe / becawse it failed a litle in the quotation / he hath let quietly goe by.

Where he gyueth me the lie, for that I ascribe vnto him this argument / there must be reading in the church, therfore ministers that can doo nothing but reade: his wordes be thes. I see not how yow can condemne reading ministers, seing reading is necessary in the church. let the reader iudge what a hard forehead he hath. Where I concluded theruppon / that euery one vvhich coulde breake bread, distribute the cup, &c. should be a meet minister: all see that it followeth vpon the former reason. And this which the D. counteth a iest, he is not able to answer in his greatest e∣arnest. His answer to the place off S. Iames is friuolous. For * 1.13 his reason why the place off ••. Luke commaunding the 12. disciples to preach / can not be applied vnto our Ministers, is for that other thinges io∣yned with yt were temporall. And this is his reason before / that the example off the Apostels elections is to be followed wholy, or not at all. Th∣erfore the place off S. Iames / did fully confute his answer: con∣sidering that the anointing of the sick coupled with praier / by the elders off the church / being temporall: thother notwithstanding is perpetuall. And this shift that that place was spoken off all minist∣ers, and thother off S Luke off the 12. onely, will not couer his shame.

For what wil he say vnto the rules gyuen as the same tyme / that they should be symple in their ministery as doues, vvise as ser∣pentes, * 1.14 take heed off men? are they not spoken to the ministers now / becawse they were spoken then to the 12. onely? What vnto that our Sauiour Christ commaunded to goe into all the world / * 1.15 teaching / and baptizing in the name off the Father / Sonne / and Holy Ghost? which place shaketh hym owt of both his ragges: for that was spoken to the eleuen Apostels onely / and the cōma∣undement off going into all the world / was temporall. Yet I thincke he dare not deny / but the commaundement off baptizing in the name off Father / Sonne / and holy Ghost / is perpetuall / and belonging vnto all Pastors. Wheruppon followeth that the place off S. Luke standeth still / to whip owt vnpreaching Past∣ors. In the pag. 483. this is handled againe. * 1.16

Where I alledge that they be vnchangeable lavves 〈◊〉〈◊〉 God, that he should not be minister off the church vvhich can not teach, nor Minister Sacramentes vvhich can not preach: the D. leauing the first which was the very cause / shppeth to the second / which is handled in an other Tract. as that wherin his prouision was better. Howbeit because I would not the D. ca∣use should leese her aduantage by his ouersight: I confesse that Chrysostomes testimonie / may seeme to perteine to the cause in hand / forasmuch as he maketh a kinde off preisthood not able to teach. To whom (with this exception that I will not be pressed with his autoritie / further then he bringeth reason off the word off God) I answer that as the word preisthood / is often times in ecclesiasticall writers taken for the pastor / and cheif minister off the church / off which our present question is: so sometime yt is taken for the elders / ioined as helpers in gouernement vnto the pastor / and whiche had not (as shall appeare) to doo doythe the preaching off the word / and administration off the Sacramen∣tes. As when yt is saied / that the Bishop chosen by Gods ordi∣nance, and the Elders ioyned vvith hym in the priestly honour. * 1.17 According vnto which sense / Chrysostomes saying maketh no∣thing to this question. For we deny not / but that he may be an

elder / and cōsequently (as they terme him) a preist assistant to the pastor / which is not able to preach: but that he may be the pastor / we vtterly deny. So remaineth onely against vs in Chrysost. te∣stimonie / that he may baptize that can not preach: which with the rest perteining to that head / shal (god willing) be in their proper place answered. As for the 5. 1. Tim. towching the Elders which rule well / in the treatise off the Presbytery yt shall appeare, that it is not vnderstanded off these caterpillers. where he requireth war∣rant off the word of God, for that I confesse the church may appoint for a reader onely some graue man, he confessing yt lawfull as well as I: for answer to his request / I refer him to that disputation where * 1.18 I haue proued / that it is not lawfull to place any thing in the ch∣urch / not iustified by the word.

That the cavvse off this fevvnes off able ministers, is part∣ly the thrusting ovvt off those vvhich are fyt to teach, partly that others fyt are not sought after: it is manifest. Whether they owght to be sought after / and not to offer them selues: I leaue to be estemed off that which is written in this point / in the booke intituled off the discipline, &c. Whether they be off right thrust owt, I leaue to be iudged off the discours off these controuersies: whe∣ther they which are not yet entred / haue iust cawse to forbeare / I leaue to be considered off the disputation before / and off that of the Archebishop / Archedeacons / Commissaries / &c. which follo∣weth. For if it fall owt that the calling be vnlawfull / wherby the entrance should be made / and the autoritie of the church tirantes such / that being entred / one can not walke in the way off his mi∣nistery prescribed off the lord: then it must followe / that althou∣gh those that are entred / hauing testimony off their conscience that they serue the lorde / and keping themselues from the pollu∣tions / may poursue their course: yet thes can not withowt ship∣wracke off conscience (I speake off ordinary callinges) euen in the very port / or euer they launche forth / commit them selues to this viage.

Where he saith there want no prouokinges to drawe them to the my¦nistery: euen that is an other cawse off this scarcety. for the church∣liuinges so vnequally deuided / that some fewe being druncken / the moste hunger: discourage from that study. For the parent

which followeth the sente off honour / and gaine in Archbisho∣prickes / bishoprickes / and other such poisons off the ministery: is oftentimes beaten backe by dispaire / that they shall not atteine to that gaine / which desired as they thincke off many / can be ob∣teined but off few. He that is willing his sonne should serue in the estate off a Minister / and looketh with a more single eye / to the continuence off true religion vnto his posterity: yet when he considereth how fewe liuinges there be (those excepted wher∣with he will not haue his sonne desiled) able to mainteine the pa∣stor with his competent howsehold / honestly / he applieth hym to an other trade of life. Wheroff although occasion be gyuen by horrible vnthankefullnes off men / which in steed off gyuing so∣me thing into the treasury off the churche / haue by their pillage browght her almoste to starck beggery: yet that parent shoulde consider / that the lord will neuer leaue / nor forsake his / and that * 1.19 gould and syluer is the Lordes. Which seing he fournished to th∣ose / that in symplicity sought the building off his howse / owt off the cofres off heathen Princes: he will much les suffer them to want necessaries vnder godly / and Christian. But this place is plentifully handled in the foresaide booke off disc••p••••ne. I onely (because the question was heere off the cause off w••nting suffici∣ent pastors) towched yt.

Heere the D. light estimation off the churches saluation / * 1.20 and off preaching is notably discouered. before he saied / that thes reading pastors were taken for necessity: now he teacheth / that ••f there were sufficient pastors to supply the roumes / yet the readers sho∣uld kepe their places still Yf ye aske why: lest forsooth they with their fa∣milies should goe a begging. Heere a whole church is sould for 30 pee∣ces off siluer / or rather as I may say / for ould shooes. For the D. weighing in his skiles / whether yt is better that the church sho∣uld vvant a preaching pastor / vvhom God hath ordeined the principall instrument to saue his church by / or that the reader vvith his familie should goe a begging: hath found the sowle∣health off a whole church / farr lighter then the bodely cōmodity of one reader with his familie. Where he saith / yt seemeth that I vvould haue the minister renant at will / or by courtesie: it is an vntrue surmise. For I complaine that thes reading Ministers /

were not onely placed vntill other might be gotten: but had a free hould / wherby the sheep are not onely committed to the woulf / but the doore sparred also vpon them.

Where he asketh for the place, in which Augustine calleth them woulues that teach not: if he haue not the vvord vvoulf, yet he spea∣keth * 1.21 to that effect / when vpon the place off Ezechiel I haue gy∣uen the a vvatchman, &c. he proueth that he which holdeth his peace / murthereth. Which also euen the Pope himselfe / as lōg as there was but a sparcke of true knowledge / confesseth. Yf the D. * 1.22 say / that his mē hold not their peace, because they reade: it is a cauill vn∣worthy answer. As though when the Prophet calleth the rascall ministers off his time / domme dogges, and suche as could not * 1.23 not barcke, his meaning vvere to charge them that they could not spell / or reade in a booke off their owne language laied before them. And so I trust appeareth / that this taile off reading mi∣nisters owght to be cut of: and that they are none off these prin∣cely giftes / which our Sauiour Christ ascended into heauen / sen∣deth * 1.24 vnto his church / but the bishops (to speake no grieuous lier off them) more then beggerly presentes. But we are not yet at an end. For that which the D. can not get / in comparing a preaching pastor with a keading: he thincketh to obtein in comparing rea∣ding with preaching / wherunto perremeth his 13 Tract.

First he mainteineth his vntrue accusation off the Adm. to * 1.25 wching their condemning off reading off scriptures. Which in compa∣ring the wordes alledged by the D. with those of the Ad. in ould time the vvord vvas preached, novv it is supposed sufficient iff it be redd: I commit vnto the readers iudgement. And if his vn∣honest realing were not euident there / because off an other sen∣tence off the Adm. subiect vnto reprehension: yet he laieth yt op∣en in the same behauiour to wardes me. For althowgh I haue not a word against reading / and diuers commendations of yt: yet * 1.26 he feareth not with full throat to accuse me / as a despiser off reading off the scriptures, as companion off the Papistes vngodlines in that behalff. Which although he doo often / yet further then his reasons gyue occasion: he shall neuer gaine off me / that I will vouchesafe him a word off answer / to all this owtcries. After vpon that I say /

yf I may call hym mynister that can doo nothing but reade (which is as indifferent to gyue him the name off a mynister / as to take it from him / being left betweene bothe) the D. according to his ould equity / concludeth that I signifie and that plainely, how I esteme them for no ministers. Which he likewise gathereth / for that I say as they call them. Wherin I will not deny but there may be occasion gyuen / to hym especially that hunteth after yt / off that surmise. But my meaning was / to note how vnworthy they are / as off the office / so off the name off a Minister off the gospell: not to make voide their mynistery such as it is / in administration off the Sacramentes. which I confesse as in the Popish Prei∣stes baptisme / for that they be the publicke officers appointed therunto / althowgh vnduely ministred / to be the holy Sacra∣mentes off Christ. And that this was my meaning might easely haue bene gathered / in that I allowing off the administration of Sacramentes by Heretickes / so much worse then they / as as it is to teach falsely then not to teach at all: could by no equall inter∣pretation / be iudged to condemne the Sacramentes ministred by them.

Where I say that albeit the D. cavvse in this point be * 1.27 good, that the reading off the scriptures is profitable: yet as o∣ne be pitched, he defileth yt in euill handling: he answereth as though I confessed / that I misliked the matter well handled, onely for that yt was doone by hym: which is a shameles vntruth. Bucers sen∣tence * 1.28 (reading is a kinde off preaching) I thincke will not be found: and I dowbt not but the D. would haue brought yt / if there had bene any. So he is destitute off his good autoritie, and withall re∣maineth the absurditie / before assigned. The sentence set downe owt off Bucer is altogether idle: seing the profit off reading the scriptures / both publickely / and priuately is confessed. Where to proue that reading is not so effectual as preaching, I alledge S. Paul / that one can not beleeue vvithovvt a preacher: he an∣swereth * 1.29 that by preaching there is ment all kinde off publishing the gospell by owtward voice. but off reason off this exposition / ether owt off scripture / or any other / more then his owne I say, he bringeth not a lettre. For that he addeth / off taking away by this meanes from

the maiestie off the scriptures, and making them d••••••e, &c. (amplified in the next diuis. by asking why the scriptures were then written? with o∣ther suche too too idle questions / which I am ashamed to defile my penne with) is vnworthy the name of a reason. As yf in that reading maketh mē fitter to heare the word preached / and to see∣ke after yt / in that yt helpeth to nourish faith engrended / in that it confirmeth a man in the doctrine preached / when by reading he perceiueth yt to be as the preacher tawght / in that it renueth the memory off that was preached / which otherwise would decay: I say as if in thes respectes / and such like / the profit off reading / and committing the word to writing / were not singular / and in∣estimable, beside that it is not denied / but the Lord may extra∣ordinarily gyue faith by reading onely: although the order which God hath put / is to saue by folishenes (as it is esteemed) off pre∣aching. * 1.30 beside also that yt is absurd / that the D. asketh why els the gospell should be writter? as yf there were no other cause of writing off it / then that it should be simply redd: or as though the prin∣cipall cawse was not ▪ that yt should be preached.

But to retourne to the D. exposition: First it ouerthroweth the argument off the Apostle. For the Iewes offended that he / and other preached to the Gētils: prouing first that the inuocati∣on off the name of God perteineth vnto them / he concludeth the∣rupon / that preaching vnto them was lawfull: considering that they could not otherwise come to call vpon the name off God, w∣here by the D. expositiō / the Iewes might haue excepted / that his mynistery towardes them was not therby iustified: forasmuch as they might come to inuocation by reading onely / withowt his / and others ministery off preaching. Furthermore / the Apostle S. Paul affirming in plaine wordes / that the preaching he sp∣eaketh * 1.31 off / can not be made but by him vvhich is sent: yt is first manifest / that reading priuately is cleane shut owt / from being conteined vnder this preaching. For faith comming onely by that preaching / ād that preaching onely lawfull by the sending of God / and publicke calling: it followeth / that except he will say / that the scripture may not be redd priuately / onles a man be pu∣blikely called therunto / that both priuate reading of the scripture / can no be conteined vnder the Apostles word of preaching / and

that faith (onles by extraordinary worcke of God) can not be en∣gendred by priuate reading. Forasmuch as it is engēdred only by that preaching / vnder which priuate reading is not conteined. And so goeth to the ground one peece off the D. assertion.

Now if priuate reading onely / can not ordinarily engender faith: I would know how publike reading onely / can doo yt. Be∣side that / when publike reading may be by a simple reader / which hath no other charge in the church / and off whom this solemne fending can not be vnderstanded: yt followeth / that faith can not by publike reading onely be engendred. Forasmuch as he being none off those sent his reading can not be that preaching / by w∣hich faith is engendred. I say that a reader onely can not be off those sent the Apostle speaketh off / not onely because he hath re∣gard vnto the ministeries off the word / appointed by God: but also for that the place off Esaie / owt off which he proueth that faith cometh not but by preaching / will by no meanes suffer to cary the word preacher vnto a simple reader. For beside that it were friuolous / to refer the lifting vp off the voice off those pre∣achers * 1.32 wherunto the Prophet exhorteth / vnto a loude reading / which is vnderstanded of earnestnes / and diligence in preaching: that voice he speaketh off / is the voice off the churches vvatch∣men▪ which title when yt can not agree vnto a simple reader / that hath no further charge then to reade in a booke / according to the prescript off others: yt is manifest / that a simple reader can not be conteined vnder S. Paules preacher / seing he can not be conteined vnder Esaies / which is the same with S. Paules. For when the title off vvatchman, draweth a continuall care / and cir∣cumspection ouer those he watcheth: and the reader for any thing his office requireth / may occupy him self in any worldly busines / sauing onely the time off his reading: yt is cleare that he is no church watchman.

Nay the reading mynisters / which haue charge off sowles committed vnto them / can be none off this order of watcheman: seing they can not onely not see the ennemy a far of / but not hard by / much les discry him: yt perteining to an instructed pastor / w∣hich according to the circumstance off the inuasion / knoweth to

apply his watche word. Now seing simple reading / nether pri∣uate / nor publicke can be conteined vnder the preaching S. Paul speaketh off Rom. 10. (which is an interpretation / and laying o∣pen the scriptures by a publike mynister / apt / and autorised ther∣unto): yt followeth / that faith which the Apostle teacheth no o∣therwise to come / but by that preaching / cometh not ordinarily by symple reading. I omit heere / that the Apostle vseth to expres∣se * 1.33 this preaching / both by crying and telling good nevves: whe∣roff when yt can not be shewed owt off scripture / or (as I am perswaded) owt of any other autor / that ether of them / much les both together / is vsed for simple reading: yt followeth that sim∣ple reading can not be vnderstanded / by the word preaching.

To proue that bare reading ingendreth faith / he citeth * 1.34 Iohn 5. repeted pag. 574. 2. Timo. 3.. whereto perteine Math. 7. Act. 17. 1. Iohn 4. Gal. 1. disorderly placed pag. 717. but to no pourpose. For when our Sauiour biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures: he referreth them by that search / to iudge off the do∣ctrine he had preached before: which proueth no fruict off rea∣ding / when there is no preaching. beside that / it will be hard for him to refer the word search / to reading onely: as if one could not search the scriptures / when he attendeth to them alledged in ser∣mons. yea he is confuted / by the place him selfe hath alledged: Where he would proue that the scripture red / in respect off ma∣king the hearers more apte to discerne off preaching / is better then preached. for when the Apostle teacheth the Galatians to hould them accursed / which preache other doctrine then they had receiued by his preaching: he dooth flatly make his preaching / * 1.35 the rule to examin other preachings by. The place off Tim. being (as I haue shewed) off the proper duties off the minister off the word in preaching / making no manner off mention off reading / is alledged withowt all iudgement. Hether refer Bucers Testi∣mony in his former diuision / which maketh for that set downe in this. For Bucer setting him self to commend reading in the chu∣rche / saith twise / bare, or onely reading, confirmeth in the kno∣vvledge off the Doctrine: which necessarily presupposeth a kno∣wledge foreplaced / or euer yt can be confirmed by reading one∣ly.

Where as if he might / it is to be thowght he would haue saied that it ingendreth knowledge off the doctrine off saluacion.

Where I alledged that the consideration off the creatures may nourish faith, not able yet to breed yt: he answereth / then let vs haue images that they may be lay mēnes bookes. Which beside the cō∣men fault off being nothing worth / is a wicked / and popishe an∣swer. For if I had made the consideration of the creatures equall vnto reading off the scriptures in that teinement off saluation / as I compared them onely in that both nourishing faith / nether could ordinarily breed yt: had yt bene lawfull therfore for hym to match instruction by images / with that which cometh by behol∣ding the creatures? ys there ether the same / or like proportiō bet∣ween the schoole of Imagery / and of the creatiō of the world? are thes bookes of the same print? the one cōming frō the lordes pres∣se / the other owt off the deuils printing howse: the one giuing a good report off the Lord / and a 1.36 setting owt his glory / the other b 1.37 dishonoring him: the one c 1.38 teaching the truth / the other being d 1.39 Doctors of lies / and vanity: finally the one being e 1.40 commaun∣ded / the other f 1.41 forbidden? But thus must the iudgement off God be fulfilled / against the ennemies off his truth: in closing vp their eyes / which seing will not perceiue. The like blindnes yt is / that he accounteth an image a visable creature, making therby a car∣pentour / a creator. In graunting that preaching is the moste ordina∣ry meane to worcke saluation by / his opinion shaketh: a token that yt will fall flat in the end. For if it be the moste ordinary / and the moste ordinary ordinarily moste effectuall: then it is vntrue he saith / that the word simply redd, is as effectuall as preached.

Where vppon lifting vp off our Sauiour (as Moses lift vp the serpent (following Caluins interpretation / which expoun∣deth * 1.42 yt off the preaching off the gospell) I shewed that the word preached being lifted vp higher then when yt is redd / is easelier seen of the eie of faith: this trifler frameth first my reason of the ••••. ver. wheroff I make not a lettre mention. Secondly bringeth an other interpretation off the place I alledge: but answereth not Caluins reasons / who cōfuteth it. Thirdly / he saith that although the interpretation be graunted / which I followed: yet the cause

is not proued therby / for that Christ is lifted vp by symple readīng▪ w∣hich is no sufficient answer / onles he had added / that it is lifted vp as highe. For when I affirme the word set in a lowe pla∣ce / I meane not that all reading symply / and in it self considered / is on the ground: but in comparison off that when it is expo∣unded by preaching. And if preaching doo make yt better vn∣derstanded / and easelier seen then when yt is redd onely (wh∣ich * 1.43 at vnawares he manifestly confesseth: then yt is true which I haue set downe / that preaching in respect off reading, doth as yt vvere set the vvord in a more sightly, and therfore higher place. As for Caluins interpretation which I followed / becawse yt is dowbtfull / and the conference off an other place semeth ra∣ther to confirme Augustines / who referreth yt to the crosse off * 1.44 our Sau. Christ: to spar owt the D. from his owt courses / let him follow that he bringeth / I will not striue, especially seing the sa∣me sense off lifting vp our Sauiour by preaching / appeareth ot∣herwise: where by yt he is saied / to be crucified before our eyes. * 1.45

Vnto that I alledge off the sauour off the vvord, svveeter, and more nourishable vvhen it is braied, and cut, then vvhen * 1.46 yt is by reading giuen as yt vvere vvhole, and in grosse: tow∣ching the first / he asketh whether the word redd is not a sweet sauour, in steed that he should haue sayed / as sweet / which he durst not. In the second / whether there be no discretion required in reading? yes / but * 1.47 more in preaching. Although thus he towcheth not the matter. for vnto the point of breaking / and cutting off the scripture / doo∣ne by preaching which applieth the generall doctrine to the par¦ticular circumstance / wherin it is like vnto aromatique spices / sweeter broken then whole / and vnto holesome meat / apter to no∣urish when yt is chewed / or cut / then when yt is not: he answe∣reth nothing. For as thinges aromatiquall / and meates both broken / and whole / haue the same sauour / and vertue off nou∣rishing in regard off them selues / yet in regard off vs are sweet∣er / and more nourishable broken &c: so the word off God / off the same vertue in yt self both redd / and preached / ys vnto vs more profitable preached / then redd. wherunto perteineth that Saint Luke calleth the interpretation off the scriptures / an opening of

them: which in the second edition / because yt was leo figuratiue then the comparison off aromatique thinges (that being a me∣tonimy off the preacher for preaching) I put in the place theroff. for if interpretation off the scriptures be the opening off them / as Saint Luke declareth calling yt opening in one verse / which * 1.48 he called interpreting in an other: yt followeth that the word redd / in respect off being preached / is as it were shut / and clas∣ped. for this cawse are the ministers off the word / saied to haue * 1.49 the keyes off the kingdome off heauen: for that withowt their ministery off preaching / the kingdome off heauen ys as yt were locked.

Where he asketh whether I thincke the praise of preaching, the dis∣praise of reading: all vnderstand that it is easter to strike water owt off a flint / then to finde honest dealing in this man. For is this to dispraise reading / to prefer preaching before yt? In commending preaching before praying / and priuate meditation of scripture more then priuate reading / and practising more then both: doo I dispraise priuate reading / or meditation? and yet the word off God is the same redd / meditated / and practised. But this is a Popish practise: which vpon that we prefer faith to good wor∣ckes / concludeth that we make no account off good worckes.

Where vpon that preaching is called both planting / and wate∣ring * 1.50 yt is shewed that as the hovvsbandman receiueth not fruict, onles both be doone, so no saluation to be looked for, vvhere is no preaching: he answereth that there is shewed how the word off God is not effectuall, onles God gyue encrease: which is to no pourpose. For he not onely sheweth that / but that God gyueth his encrease through their preaching: and that they be the how∣sbandes by whose preaching the Lord maketh his orcheyard. He answereth further / that in this place there is no comparison betwene re∣ading and preaching: but considereth not how the scripture giueth this / as also those before cited / vnto simple reading / therby singu∣lary exalting preaching aboue bare reading. So that although some off thes in some degree / or all extraordinarily may be doone by bare reading: yet by thes cōmendations / as it were by a more precious apparell / is aduanced the grace off God / more richly

rached vnto vs by the hand off preaching / then reading. Last off all he answereth / that tilling, and watering may be applied also vnto di∣ligent reading: where not daring (as it semeth) say planting, he hath chaunged it wheroff the question was for tilling: belike be∣cawse he remembred he had saied before / that yt is proper vnto the Apostles to plant. Where againe his cawse receiueth an other wo∣und. For if planting be by preaching / and not by reading: then in this respect / preaching is more effectuall then bare reading. Then that he saith killing / and watering may be applied to rea∣ding: he should to mainteine his cause haue saied / as well / or as muche.

To that off the people perishing vvithovvt prophecy, * 1.51 vvhich is not bare reading, but expounding, and applying off scriptures: he answereth that the people muste needes decay in holines, and knowledge where there be no preachers. but why doth he say decay, and not perish as Salomon speaketh? where his cause falleth flat to the ground. For if the people perish / where be no preach∣ers / althowgh there be readers / and cōtrariwise preaching with∣owt bare reading / saueth / engendreth faith / and nourisheth yt: yt is manifest that the word redd is not so effectuall as preached / and that by bare reading ordinarily / there is no saluation / and therfore also no faith / both which he before denied. And if the people perish withowt preaching / which haue already bene lig∣htened by it. how muche more (except the Lord worcke extraor∣dinarily) must they perish / that neuer had preaching?

Where he saith / both preaching, and bare reading be necessary in the church: yf he meane publikely / as yt is true in preaching / so yt is vntrue in simple reading. For although yt be very conuenient which is vsed in some churches / where before preaching time the church assembled hath the scriptures redd / in suche order that the whole Canon theroff is oftentimes in one yeare run thorough: yet a nombre of churches which haue no such order of simple rea¦ding / can not be in this point charged with breach of Gods com∣maundement: which they might be / if simple reading were neces∣sary. Considering especially that some off them beside their set ser∣mons / expounding euery day paraphrastically two chapters /

with the principall pointes theroff taken / and applied vnto their auditors: gaine that which the D. owt of Bucer / presupposeth to come onely by simple reading / that the scripture therby is ma∣de familiar vnto the people. Where he saith they be moste profitable: the wine off this error so fumeth into his head / that it hath taken away the vse off his toung. for two thinges to one and the same end / can not (but very vnproperly) be saied most profitable. For if preaching be moste profitable to worcke faith by / then is not rea∣ding: if reading / thē is not preaching. it is true that mē sometime speake so) when the questiō is not of comparison betweene those thinges they speake off: but otherwise / it is altogether straunge.

Where he saith preaching is more apt for the ignorant, and vnle∣arned, and that he denieth not this: the vntruth theroff is apparant. For if preaching be more profitable to the vnlearned then rea∣ding / and de at least as profitable to the learned: then yt is false that he hath set downe with so great assurance / that reading is as effectuall as preaching: seing the effect we speake off / is the profit off the hearers. Yet as a man strawght off his wittes stri∣keth him selfe: he ouerthroweth this also in an other place. for in asking why Iosia caused the lawe to be redd▪ except it had as great force to * 1.52 perswade redd as preached: he signifieth the contrary off that heere affirmed. Considering that the greatest part was off the com∣men people / and that grosse: as those which newly came owt off filthy idolatry. Further if preaching were as meet for the learn∣ed / and meeter for the rude: then his reason there / which imagi∣neth that Iosia would not otherwise haue caused the law to be redd / onles there had bene as great fruict in reading as preach∣ing / falleth flat. Considering that the D. confesseth / that preach∣ing is more effectuall to the people: and I thincke dare not deny / but it is as effectuall to the learned. Therfore the reason why Iosias cawsed the law to be redd / was not becawse reading was as effectuall as preaching: but because being both redd and prea∣ched / yt profiteth more then when yt is symply redd.

Where he saieth marry haue bene called by bare reading: he saith yt againe and againe / but withowt all proofe. For where (altogeth∣er owt off place / his pourpose being to proue that reading edifi∣eth

more then preaching) he faith God vsed reading at a meanes to call Augustine: yt is vaine / seing the question is / whether he vsed that o∣nely meanes, for yt appeareth that August. had greatly profited in godlines / before that time wherin he heard the miraculous voice / which sent him to reading. Beside that / the voice he tel∣leth off going before his reading / will not suffer that that rea∣ding onely / may chalenge the whole meanes off conuersion. Likewise that he affirmeth owt M. For / off many browght to light * 1.53 off the gospell by reading onely: he maketh not / nor (as I am perswa∣ded) could make yt appeare. Although yt be confessed / that that may be doone by the Lordes extraordinary worcking / which fee∣deth sometime with quarles in the wildernes. Yet yt is hard to shewe any time / wherein there haue bene professors off the go∣spell / and God hath not raised vp some ministers / which haue e∣ther openly / or secretly as the time required / preached the word: considering that euen in those desolations of the church / the Lord * 1.54 by his tvvo vvitnesses promiseth / that the church shal not be de∣stitute off true ministers.

Where confessing the vvord preached and red all one, I * 1.55 shew notwithstanding that as the fyre stirred gyueth more he∣at, so the vvord as yt vvere blovven by preaching, flameth more in the hearers, then vvhen it is redd: he answereth that this is to ione with the Papistes in condemning the scriptures of obscurity. but reason he can shew none: and it is all one / as if one should be charged to haue saide that the Sonne is darck / for that he affirmeth yt lig∣hter at noone daies then at the Sonne rising. Then he muste vn∣derstand / that we place not this difference of lightsomnes in the worde / which is alwaies in it selfe most lightsom / red and prea∣ched: but partly in the ordinance off God before noted / making that the speciall meanes / partly in the darcknes of our vnderstan∣ding / which withowt the aide off preaching can not come to suf∣ficient knowledge off yt. Lastely he must learne / that althowg∣he all thinges necessary to saluacion / might by reading onely be vnderstanded: yet yt followeth not / that a man may by reading o∣nely be saued. For yt is one thinge to haue the scripture in his he∣ad / another to haue it in his heart: one thinge to vnderstād yt / an∣other

to beleue yt / which beleef being onely able to saue / ys ordi∣narily onely ingendred by preaching. * 1.56

Wherby also we haue a peece off remedy / against another poison spit forthe in this diuis. that to those which vnderstand the scri∣ptures they are as whot, and lightsome red as preached. For where in his former assertion although not in wordes / yet in deed he vtterly condemned the wisedome off God / ordeining pastors / and Do∣ctors for continuall functions in the church / of whom there is no vse / if simple reading be as effectuall as preaching: that being w∣rung owt off his handes / in that he is compelled to confesse gre∣ater efficacy off preaching towardes the vnlearned: yet rather thē all this cobweb should be vnweaued / he maketh the ministe∣ry off preaching voide towardes the learned. Wheras the scriptu∣re doth not onely generally / but particularly / and expresly shut vp the saluation off the learned in the meanes off preaching / as * 1.57 off the vnlearned. But this is a peece off the doctorall diuinity of some in Camebridge / which to excuse their shamefull contempt off preaching / and to make them a pillow to sleepe on / or to pane them an alley to bowle in during sermons in the afternoone: sha∣me not to alledge / that they cā profit as much in reading the scri∣ptures / or an homily owt off Chrysostome in their study / as by hearing a sermon in the church.

Vnto the example off the Eumuche, vvhich reading the sc∣ripture belieued not vntill he heard Philip preach, he answe∣reth that he vnderstood yt not, and that he speaketh off an vnderstanding reader. Which although it be vntrue / the wordes off his former booke being generall / withowt so much as the least signification off exception: yet it is nothing worth. For the cause why he could not vnderstand yt is there assigned / for that he had no tea∣cher * 1.58 to shew him the way. Wherby followeth not (which the Pa∣pistes conclude off this place) that the people owght not to read the scriptures: seing the Eunuch which both knew / and confessed that he could not vnderstand withowt a guide / exercised him self diligently in reading off them. but this followeth / that a man can not ordinarily not onely come to saluacion / but not so much as to a sufficient knowledge off it / withowt preaching. Where off

infinite examples he saith one is as few as may be: yt appeareth this o∣ne was to muche for him to answer.

Now for all the false accusations / off ioyning with papistes in despising off reading the scripture, &c. once heare yowr one proces / that yt is yow that strengh then their handes. For as in popery / by committing the office off preaching especially vnto the beg∣gerly friers / and by declaring it more honorable for the bishop to reade a masse / then to preach a sermon / they set reading in the head / and preaching in the taile: so yow making simple reading as profitable as preaching / hasten after them / and if yow keepe the same pase yow haue begon / it will not be long or euer yow o∣uertake them.

The D. hauing before made simple readers equall with pre∣aching * 1.59 pastors / in that he holdeth simple reading / as effectuall as preaching: heere in making bare reading better then preach∣ing / preferreth the readers aboue the preachers. But in this later absurdity / first as before he woulde make Musculus his pack∣horse / and therfore brawleth becawse I laied it not vpon Musc. so princely is the D. that he would haue his faultes whipped vppon an other mans skin. but at least I should haue deuided it bet∣ween them. As if I were matched with Musculus. but the truth is / that he maketh not for him. For he compareth the profit taken of symple reading / and off a sermon made of him which endeuoreth to make a glorious shew off eloquence / and learning rather then to apply him self to the capacity off the simple: which is nothing to that in hand / where good reading is cōpared with good prea∣ching. And therfore it is ridiculous the D. bringeth of bitter inue∣ctiues, and contentious sermons, &c. compared with orderly reading. For in this comparison / it were not hard to proue (which is blasphemy) that yt is better to reade a peece off Lyuy / then the bookes off the kinges: namely if Lyuy be simply red / and the other with interlining / and mixture off popishe interpretation. If one defending this would for maintenance off his comparison bring this escape: would not all men hisse at him? this is his refuge also * 1.60 to salue that he saied / off homilies red better then sermons preached.

His other instance off a papist carying preiudice against all prea∣chers, and therfore not moued once by their doctrine, in which notwithstan∣ding

after by reading he is established, is insufficient. for if the Lord by his vertue shewed throwgh preaching / doo conuert men vtten∣ly peruerted / and at enmity with all truth / and consequently with * 1.61 the ministers theroff: how much more will he therby conuert pa∣pistes? which by doubting whether the gospell be truth / or their superstitions haue ground / or no / cary not that enmyty the other doo / which haue no such entrance. Then yow muste vnderstand / that as in the Sacramētes the Lord doth not alwaies at the same tyme they are ministred / worcke by his spirit / but chooseth the time that seemeth good to his wisedome: so yt is in preaching. wherby yt cometh to passe / that the spirit of God worcking faith at the time of reading / wrought it not by that meanes onely: but vsed therunto the help off preaching / which went before. For as greene wood laied vpō fire / and her with many strong blastes / as laste set on fire / and flaming with one / and that a soft blaste / is not to be be saied chiefly set on fire with the soft blaste / because it wēt immediatly before: euen so the word off God blowen by prea∣ching / and after sensibly burning in the hearres of the hearers / by the meanes off reading immediatly gone before / is not so muche to be ascribed vnto reading / as preaching. Considering that so it might comme to passe (which is absurd) that contemplacion off the creatures / should profit more then reading. For wheras the Lord hath seth the print off the moste off his promises / and other * 1.62 doctrines in the creatures: for example / off his fatherly care off prouiding al thinges necessary for his / in the prouision for birdes off the ayer / and rich array off the lilies off the field: yt may com∣me to passe / that that doctrine knowen by meanes off preaching / and lying as yt were dead in the heart / may after by sight / and e∣arnest vewe off the thinges them selues / be quickened. yet none off iudgement will say / that the beholding off the creatures wr∣rowght more in this / then preaching. Howbeit if the cases he putteth in this point were true: yet he is inexcusable / thes plai∣sters comming a ye are and a half / after the wound giuen by such straunge speach: which owght to haue gone with yt / if perad∣uenture they might althowgh not heale / yet somewhat hide the lothsome rawnes.

Hytherto perteineth that which he hath disorderly put

pag. 176. where he saith / that the reading off Saint Paules epistles did the Romanes more good, thē preaching: which is cōtrary to S. Paules me∣aning / * 1.63 who sheweth / that he could not haue the like fruice off his ministery towardes them / as off other nations / because he was letted to comme / and preach vnto them. His proofes comming a mile after / are first that a mans meaning is commenly better expressed by writing, then by word. Which beside that it is confuted by commen¦sense / all men knowing that there is more certeine vnderstanding by word off mouth / thē by lettres (which if any doubt arise in any word / can say nothing to the resoluing off it) as yt is alledged / it can not tend but to vtter subuersion off the lordes order / and to proue that commenly, and for the moste part / it is better to haue reading / then preaching. The other is that writing remaineth: as if the question were wether canonicall writing off the scriptures / were better then preaching: and not whether there be more fruict in bare reading that which is written / then preaching vp∣pon yt.

In this chap. which supposeth reading preaching, beside stra∣unge * 1.64 asseuerations / and begging of that in controuersie: there is nothing / sauing that as absurdities are fruictfull / this begget∣teth other. for pressed he shameth not to say / that a child off 4. yeare olde, is a preacher off the gospell. And why not also a popeniay / tawght to pronounce some sentences off scripture? for the D. reason (be∣cause preaching 10 Rom. 14 is all publishing off the gospell by externall voi∣ce) * 1.65 serueth for one / as for the other. And beside that it is friuolous that off that God speaketh to vs by reading / he would conclude that he preacheth to vs / as though all speaking were preaching: yt is absurd that he saith / the scriptures are not preached in respect off him that readeth, but in respect of the spirit of God worcking in the hearers. For if reading were preaching / yt should be preaching although it wrowght to condēnation: wheras by the D. all which hearing the word preached / profit not / are not preached vnto. Which as it * 1.66 is a grosse error: so it is a shamefull derogation to the ministery off the word / worcking mightely not onely to the saluation off the elect / but also throwgh their fault / to destruction off the re∣probate.

To the places prouing that it is necessarily required in a

minister / that he should not onely be sufficiently learned / but haue * 1.67 also the gift off vtterance: he answereth not. Towching that the priestes lippes should kepe knowledge / and not his papers: he * 1.68 answereth that he shall haue it readier in his lippes, if he haue yt in his pa∣pers: which is not to pourpose / seing we spake off those which haue yt onely in papers. Then he hath a childish cauill / that if he re∣ade he must vse his lippes: as if the Prophet contented him self if the priestes were able to reade onely / and did not note therby the aptnes to teach / as by vncircumcised lippes / is noted heauines / * 1.69 or vnreadines off speache. That a Preacher able for vtterance, and lear∣ning to preach, may reade a sermon, if he meane priuately / is not in que¦stion: if publikely / yt belongeth to the question off Homilies. His case off a man pronouncing an other mans sermon withowt bo∣oke / beside the fondnes is from the cawse. That the reading of Iere∣mies, and Baruchs bookes was preaching, becawse the bookes were sermons: ys to dreame / and not to dispute.

The 15. 16. verses Rom. 15. make nothing to proue reading preaching: but make rather against him / in that the Apostle shew∣ing * 1.70 that his writing to them was grownded off Gods calling / sowght a more generall word / off worcking for the gospell: wh∣ich agreeth to any action the minister doth by reason off his mi∣nistery / ether in ministring the Sacramentes / or otherwise. The difference Sainct Paul putteth between his preaching / is appa∣rant * 1.71 althowgh the D. hath lost his sight. That S. Paul ment he could not personally preach vnto them, is his addition / corrupting the minde off the Apostle. For where shewing that he had great desire to be personally with them (form spirit he was not absent) he ad∣deth for a cawse that he might preach: the D. by this answer / drowneth the effect in the cause / ād so maketh the Apostle assigne cawses / which cawse nothing / nor haue any thing to be referred vnto. Where I shewe that S. Paul vvriting, is no more preach∣ing then his hand, or penne he vvrote vvith be his toung, ligh∣tes, or other instrumentes he spake vvith: he answereth not / for that as he saith it is a iest. Where if his cause could speake / it wo∣ulde complaine that he maketh no more account of it / then to e∣steme her head stroked / when it is cracked a sonder. for the rea∣son

is of the efficient cause / seing they can not be the same / wh∣ich can not be made by the same instrumentes.

To mainteine his ridiculous demaunde (was not reading off * 1.72 Deut. preaching) he should haue shewed / that the reading off yt is rather preaching / then reading off Exodus: which he doth not. Howbeit he concludeth / that the reading theroff was preaching / becawse the Lord commaunded that the priestes should reade yt, that the people might learne to feare God: which is as ridiculous. For so pein∣ting / and grauing off the scriptures is preaching / and peinters and grauers (which sometimes knowe neuer a lettre off the boo∣ke) shall be come preachers. Considering that the Lord cōmaun∣ded / * 1.73 that the lawe should be grauen in the entrance of their land / and writtē vpō their cytie gates / and howses: to this end that the people might learne to feare God / &c. After he asketh / why Iosia sh∣ould cawse the lawe to be redd, if reading had not bene off at great force to perswade as preaching: which phrensie belonging to another que∣stion / is answered before. Where he concludeth / that for that rea∣ding * 1.74 is as effectuall as preaching, therfore it is preaching: beside the false∣hood off the antecedent / the conclusion is too bad. for if the raine be as effectuall to cawse the fruictes grow / as the sonne / and me∣at as effectuall to perserue the life / as drincke: it followeth not therfore that the raine is the sonne / or meat drincke.

Where vppon Nehem. 8. he would proue reading preach∣ing: * 1.75 there is not a word wheron it may be gathered / but contra∣riwise they are manifestly distinguished in that chap. For beside reading there mentioned / he setteth forth preaching by all these wordes / that the Leuites cavvsed the people to vnderstand the lavv, gaue the sense off the lavv, cavvsed them to vnderstand the reading. And where pag. 91. he saith / that the wordes translated off some they gaue the sense, signify nothing les thē that there was any expo∣sition * 1.76 ioined with reading, bearing him self vppon learners interpreters: seing he seeth no further into this / then with other mennes eies / why should not he haue followed the iudgement off the Geneua translation / which he pincheth? they being learned men / and moe in nombre then as (I thincke) he can alledge. Which I say not to iustify that translation throwghowt / or to shut vp the way

gainst a better: but because it seemeth an vnworthy thing / to re∣fuse their iudgement vpon bare autoritie. I haue none off his le∣arned men to looke their iudgementes / howbeit for that I finde one off the Hebrues so expounding the wordes: I will not deny but some other deceiued by him / might fall into that error. Vnto whom althowgh I could oppose an other / flatly expounding th∣ese verses off reading ioined with exposition / the exposition off the former not shutting owt preaching: yet I had rather my confutation stand of reason / then autoritie. Which is that the ho∣ly gost shewing in the 7. verse / that the Leuites made the peo∣ple vnderstand the law / in the 8. sheweth howe they did it. for (saith he) they redd in the booke off the lavv distinctly, and in giuing the sense, caused them to vnderstand the reading Whe∣ras those wordes which are tourned (gyuing the sense) can not 〈◊〉〈◊〉 withowt a gap / be caried to the peoples attentiue hearing: considering that it is spoken in that verse off the Leuites / with∣owt resuming off the people ether expresly naming them / or ob∣scurely by any article. Which hard translations when an other sense doth well agree to the suit off the text / are by all meanes to be auoided. That thes wordes (the Leuites cavvsed the people vn∣derstand the lavv) be nothing els but they made them gyue diligent eare vnto the reading: yt is violent. For beside that it is against the ge∣nerall rule / not to run to a figuratiue speach / when the simple will (which the D. can not deny) agree with the residue off the text: especially when both this / and the other interpretation (they * 1.77 gaue the sense) are confirmed by the practise off the churche: yt is vnconfirmed by any conference off scripture / or circumstance of place: confuted also by that this word is expounded by an other / they made them knovv the lavv. Where the scripture speaking off one thing diuersly / if it speake figuratiuely in one word / vseth to speake properly in an other.

Where both by the wordes and practise of the church in o∣ther places / I shewed the place off the Actes to be vnderstan∣ded * 1.78 off reading, and preaching iointly: the D. not answering the reason / saith that the place is euidently for him, which is a begging

off that in question: that he can reade no interpreter which enterpreteth yt otherwise, no one being browght which followeth that sense: that the circumstance off the place maketh for him, becawse Saint Iames v∣seth for a reason, to proue that the Iewish ceremonies could not be forthwith abolished, that Moses had by reading of the law euery Sabboth so great auto∣rity: which is manifestly against him. for it maketh more for the confirmation of S. Iames sentence that he was both redd / and preached euery sabboth / then if he had bene onely redd: cōsidering that his authority was so much the deeper setled in the heartes off the Iewes.

Hytherto perteineth that in the end off his booke / where he trifleth for that the Adm. expoundeth (reading is not feading) * 1.79 by this it is bare feading: which is vnworthy answer / conside∣ring it is receiued in all tounges / often to deny that to be doon / * 1.80 which is doon insufficiently / as is before noted. That also he saith there / repeted p. 718. off dissent with my self, for that saying there that bare reading withowt a miracle can not saue from famishement, I say in an other place that the word off God is easy, giuing vnderstanding to idiots, is friuolous. Considering that I spake off reading / not vtterly sepa∣rate from preaching. Yf it be easy and gyue vnderstanding by preaching / and reading togither / although not so by reading one∣ly: that standeth which I haue set downe. That he exclameth off that sentence / as Papisticall, &c. I haue shewed how it is catholi∣ke / and his Papisticall that maketh so easy a way to saluatiō wi∣thowt preaching. yt is well with vs / and the scriptures kepe their honour / if they bring to the elect saluatiō / vsed / and applied as the order which the lord hath set / requireth. onles paraduenture he will say the holy Sacramētes leese their honour / when it is saied they are not effectuall to saluacion / without men be instructed by preaching before they be partakers off them.

Hauing shewed that bare reading off scriptures / can not make vnpreaching ministers occupy any place in the church: re∣maineth yet the reading of Homilies / with the Apocrypha: in wh¦ich couer is sowght for thē against the sentēce of condēnatiō / and storme of the Lordes wrathfull iudgement / which will follow if they repēt not speedely. for where thes dry nources haue no milke

of their owne: the D. will haue thē yet giue sucke / although of the becastes of others. But this kinde off milke hauing taken winde / shall appeare not to be so fit to nourish / as that it may come into the church for a supply of sermone. yt is enough if as for support off the nource / sometimes other then hers be taken: so to spare the pastor hardly able euery day to preach / the godly Christian stren∣ghthen him self with them at home. In which treatise first co∣meth the D. reason (Augustin, and Chrysostome preached sermons in their * 1.81 churches, therfore we may reade sermons in ours.) The absurditie whe∣roff lest it should be hidden / he hath made a great deale bigger. for charged with it he answereth / that the committing them by wri∣ting vnto posterity, argueth that they thought them very profitable vnto the church. so that his argument is / they are profitable / therfore they may be red publikely in the church. As if there were no profit re∣aped by reading thē priuatly: or as if al thinges profitable for the church / may be red openly in yt. where are browght in to publike reading / whole cartlodes off disputations of the Catholikes with Papistes▪ Anabaptistes / Arians: likewise of Ecclesiasticall stories a hudge heape / and other rables of heritikes / and schismatikes: which being profitable / haue the D. ladder to clime vp into the pulpit. But one thing we may note▪ what is that? that August and Chry∣sostom writ their sermons, therfore it may be they red them sometimes in the church. If yow be in earnest / in earnest yow are a sleepe. For so far be yow from concluding iustly / that it is meet to reade them in the church: that yow conclude not they were so much as red. I pray yow haue any off our homilimakers / red their homilies in the churches? I thinck not: onles it haue bene since yow wrote / to make yowr argument seeme good. So in thincking to make one note, yow make two shamefull blots. yow see not why they may not aswell now be red in the church, as then preached: a pitifull blindnes / wheroff the remedy if yow will open yow eyes / followeth. Now to come to the 3. chap. Tract. 21.

The first / and second diu. be not worth the answer / the third is answered / except that he saith / the Adm. proued not the sufficiency off the scripture by 1. Cor 1. 18. 1. Ro. 16. becawse there be manifest places for that pourpose: as though it were thus to be charged / if it vsed places

which proue that / although not the fittest. Where vppon that the Lord admitteth no instrumētes be they neuer so vile, in the * 1.82 seruice of the temple, nor trūpets in assembling the people, but vvhich vvere sanctified to that vse, although others vvere as apt to doo the vvorcke as they, I concluded that homilies, &c. not sanctified of the Lord to that pourpose, ovvght to be kept ovvt: he answereth / that similitudes be no sufficient proofe, and that the Lord did not commaund that nothing should be red in the church but canonicall scr∣ipture, not remembring that it is the holy ghostes / which teacheth that the tabernacle with the vessels / were made according to the patron off the church now. The which in the holy trumpetes is * 1.83 more clearly seen: considering that the holy gost commaunding them to be blowen by the priestes alone / and comparing the pu∣blicke * 1.84 teaching with the sound off them: doth not obscurely de∣clare / that they were shadowes therof. Therfore as the trum∣pet•• were sancrified to the temple / by the commaundement off God: so to make Homilies holy in Gods principall / and publicke seruice / the like autoritie is required.

Where I shew that nether homilies, nor Apocrypha are to be compared in goodne•• in themselues, nor in fruict tovvard the hearer, vvith the scripture, and reading theroff (wherin the D. laboured not, but ••o••••ered / against the Adm.) he answereth that nothing can therby be concluded against homilies, which may not be against sermons, and other interpretations, and rather against sermons then homilies: which is detestable. For therby he affirmeth / that homilies are both better in them selues / and red more fruictfull to the hearers / then the word off God preached. Wherin he controileth also the order off our church / which will haue homilies gyue place / ••f the∣re be any to preach. For confutacion wheroff I send the reader to that before disputed▪ for if the word preached / be more fruict∣full then the word yt selff red: then reading off homilies inferior in fruict to the reading of scriptures (by the D. confession heere) must be muche more inferior to the word preached. His reason is / for I make no make no other difference betwixt homilies, and sermons, but that one is pronounced within booke, the other not so. Belike homilies / and sermons are equall in all other thinges: yet homilies excell

sermons / in that they are red in the booke / the other is doon by liuely voice. But is there no difference at all but this? first ••et h••m vnderstand / that sermons in the churche / are expresly com∣maunded off the Lord / are such as are necessary for all churches / and which no one can want. As for homilies / if they were in this dearth off preaching graunted conuenient for our church: yet ha∣ue they no commaundement / wherby they are made necessary / and such as the church is bound vnto: they also are such / as ether all / or the most florishing churches haue not. In which differen∣ce there is as great a goulf between them / as is betwen heauen and earth. I speake off them now / as if they were conuenien∣tly ordeined. For although in such case / during the conuenience / they ought to be kept as profitable orders off the church: yt thes chaungeable constitutions / compared with the eternall sawe off God / are infinitely inferior. so it is vtterly false which he saith aft∣erward / all kinde off publishing the doctrine in scripture, haue necessary vses in the church. Wherby he maketh thinges necessary to saluaceō / ne∣ther expressed / nor necessarily concluded of the scripture: and con∣dēneth in this behalf / all churches which ether haue bene / or are / not receiuing the vse off homilies. Thus ones the singular fruict off preaching the word / is manifest to be so much greater then homilies reading / as the meanes ordeined off the lord / is more fruictful then that off men.

Secondly if they were conuenient / yet they might both be made / and publickely red / withowt any of those ordinary ministe∣ries which the lord hath appointed in his word. for a priuate mā may write them / as he may doo a commentary: and if a minister make them / yet he doth nor that by bond off his ministery. for then he should leaue a part off it vndoon / which wrote not homi∣lies: and hauing doon all other partes / should be gilty off the not fulfilling off it / for omitting this. seing therfore there is no com∣maunded ministery off God required / nether in making / nor rea∣ding * 1.85 of them / and sermōs can not be made withowt: there is he∣ere an other singular difference / lifting vp preaching with the fruict theroff / so far aboue homilies red▪ as the Lordes autorised Embassadour with his broad seale / and letters patentes / is abo∣ue him in whom no such markes appeare, withowt whose mini∣stery

when (as I haue shewed) faith can not be engendred / nor men ordinarily saued: there being plentifull saluaciō withowt ho¦milies reading / as appeareth both otherwise / and by other chur∣ches where they are not: the difference of preaching with the fru∣ict theroff / is incomparably more / then that by homilies reading.

The third difference is / that where sermons are applied to the present circumstance / which by chaunge off times / budding off new vices / rising of errors / &c. vary almost euery day this kin∣de off interpretation (as that which is starcke / and annūmed) can not poursue them. for where the preacher with his sermon / is able according to the manifold windinges / and turninges of sin∣ne / to winde / and turne in with yt / to thend he may stricke it: the homilies are not able to turne / nether off the right hand / nor off the left / but to what quarter soeuer the enemies are retyred / yt must keepe the traine wherin it was set off the maker. And if it were possible (which is not) to make homilies against all diseases off vices / and errors: and that were also graunted / that the rea∣ding ministers could both discerne the sickenes / and apply the medicine laied vp in the homily / which requireth the skill off a le∣arned man: yet as no physicion (how cunning soeuer) can so well prescribe at ones / and in grosse against a disease / as he that vpon euery step yt maketh giueth counseill / and applieth his medicine: so no homily maker / be he neuer so great a diuine / can at ones / and before hand prescribe so apt / and strōg remedies against sin∣ne / as he that doth yt vpon the present occasion. Homilies then not able to comme to the vices / further then vices cōme to them: their vse for this / and other cawses aforesaied / is priuate. For a mā feeling him self assaulted in any wise / and knowing a treatise arming him against that assault / may for his vse be profitably oc∣cupied in it. I leaue the difference in giftes / instrumentall causes off sermons / and homilies: when as beside the giftes required in homilies ether reading / or making / there are in sermons requi∣red the gift off vtterance / and memory. I passe also that the D. in saying there is no difference between an homily red, and a sermon preached, but that the one is pronounced within booke, the other not so: maketh no dif¦ferēce between hym that writeth his sermon / and readeth it / and him that readeth an other man̄es / not able to make one him self.

this shall be sufficlent to haue shewed that absurdity.

Where also goe to the ground other absurdities / laied vp∣pon this foundacion: as that the promesse off the assistance off gods spi∣rit, is as well gyuen to writers of homilies, and their hearers: as to studiers for * 1.86 sermons, and those which heare them. as if he had saied / the Lord will giue testimonie to his word / as wel by the meanes which mē ha∣ue deuised: as that him self hath ordeined. Likewise that sermons should be kept owt off the church, as well as homilies, if they should be shut * 1.87 owt because they are mennes interpretation. considering that the prea∣cher albeit he be a man / yet in respect off his publicke ministery / instituted / and commaund of the Lord / is as the angell off God / yea as Christ him self: which can not be saied off homily readers / * 1.88 nor makers / especially in that respect. To that I alledge off the coustome off the Churches / before our Sauiour Christes com∣ming / and after / towching homilies not vsed in the church, and that in such time vvhen there vvas greatest vse off them: he answereth / that the argument is of autoritie negatiuely. where I le∣aue to the iudgement off the reader / what likelihood there is / that there were any homilies red in the church / whē both holy / and ec∣clesiasticall writers / making mētiō of the forme of seruice of God in the church / to the least / and smallest ceremonies: there is none diuers 100. yeares / that ones vouchesafeth to mention homilies reading / which the D. matcheth with preaching / the highest ser∣uice off God in his church.

Where he saith / that I condemne thargument drawen off mennes autoritie, yt is vntrue: I said it constreineth not. And I spake of it where yt is question off searching the truth off a matter / wherin many easely deceiued / none knoweth the full off it: and not off re∣porting thinges doone in presence off him that writeth / wherof he making profession to write / can not withowt grosse ouersig∣ht / passe by. where he saith / yt is an euill argument to conclude off a thing not doon, that it shovld not be doon: if the churches gouerned by the Prophetes / and Apostles did it not / it being put as a peece off the seruice off God / and as the D. saith. necessary: ether they faulted in not vsing this meanes / which is absurd / or the D. which de∣fendeth the vse off it. He saith / I can not but acknowledge one good

sermon red, to edify more then the Chalde paraphrastes. so destitute off meanes to refute the reason I set downe / why a short paraph∣rasis was meeter then homilies, namely for that they appro∣ched nerer vnto the reading off the scripture vvhich is best: he setteth his cause at my courtesie. But if I graūt that he asketh / he is nothing nerer: onles he can proue that a learned homily / is fitter then a learned paraphrase made now in this great light / which the Chalde paraphrastes could not haue when they wrote. So that although they expounding darckly / according to the ti∣me they wrote in / be not so fit now to reade / as an homily: yet yt standeth still / that a pharaphrast is fitter to be red then an homi∣ly. Where he saith / I know that the Iewes haue thes paraphrastes yet red: I shewed both by scripture ād otherwise / that they had thē not openly red / when there was greatest neede off them. Yf they had them after when diuers corruptions were entred / or now when they are the synagogue off Satan / tha•• maketh rather for me. They which tould hym that Ionathan was 42. yeares before our Sauiour Christ / if they ment therby to confute that I set dow∣ne / should haue gyuen him something to answer the autoritie I alledged. Although he might be well 42. yearers before our Sauiour Christ / and then too: considering he was schoole fellow to Symeon / off whom S. Luke maketh mention.

The testimonies off Denis, and Clements Epistles red in the church, to proue it vntrue which I affirmed / off the churches practise towching reading off the scriptures alone / after the Apostles t∣mes / are in that respect idle: considering that I onely shewed / that that coustome continued after their tymes / which were the best / and purest. Nether can the breaking off this order by some churches / vppon some occasion / let why it may not truly be saied both the coustome / and practise. Yf the Centuries coniecture we∣re receiued / that Denis epistles were red / as Clementes: yet that proueth not that they were red generally / considering that Cle∣ments was red but in certeine churches. But what if it be saied / that they were red in those churches / for that they were vntruly * 1.89 thowght of the Canon of the scripture? Wherto serueth not onely that Denises were called Catholike / but Clements weighty / and

wonderfull. Likewise that Euseb. esteeming Clement the cano∣nicall * 1.90 translatour off the Epist. to the Hebrues: yt is not vnlike / but he had that epistle in like estimation. Last off all for that as he lightly reiected the true canonicall bookes off Saint Iames / Iude / and second off Saint Peter: so he lightly held those for ca∣nonicall / * 1.91 which were not yf I answer thus / my coniecture hath better reason / then yow yet shew: and then the reading off these epistles helpeth yow not. yow haue onely Soters / which help no∣thing more / being red onely at Corinth. Howbeit it shall be suf∣ficient answer / that as other corruptions crept in then: so the seed of this began to be sowen / and that the credit which yowr cawse gaineth in that diuerse churches red them: yt leeseth in that diuer∣se others receiued them not. Likewise it maketh against him / that the councell giueth no place vnto homilies / but in extreme cases off sicknes / &c. off the minister: where he maketh them the peoples ordinary food. The councell as it were in a great drowght / or sn∣ow when all is couered / will haue the sheep holpen with this hard meat the D. will haue it their commen allowance. Beside that it is the obiectiō / which I myself im̄ediatly after preuented: * 1.92 my answer wherunto the D. towcheth not but onely affirmeth it a good decree, and no cawse off corruption: which is grosse beggery. con¦sidering / that I shew how vppon occasion theroff / in time came in the popish Legend / and Gregories homilies: which iustled owt the holy Bible.

Where I shewed that Bucers wordes secme counterfeit / * 1.93 wherby he is browght exhorting to encrease the nomber off homilies, when the Lord should blesse the realme with learned preachers: forasmuch as there were then learned preachers / able to make homilies / w∣hich should haue exceded the volume of the Bible: he answereth / that there is no cause to suspect them, but the reason he can not answ∣er. After he cyteth M Ridly but fondly. for if the autority off all those which established that order / be not able to make yt good: much lesse his alone / and being a party in this cawse he owght not (albeit a singular mā) be witnes. Where I alledged the coun∣cell coun∣cell of Laodicea / ordeining that nothing should be red in the * 1.94 church / but the canonicall scripture: he answereth / the councell¦

ment, nothing vnder the name of holy scriptures: which is an open / and shamefull corruption. for after the councell had saied / that the gospels with other scriptures / should be red on Sabboth daies: yt addeth / vve must not read bookes vvhich are ovvt off the ca∣non, but the canonicall bookes off the old, and novv testament alone. And where he would cōfirme his interpretatiō by the 47. canon off the third councell off Carthage: he is againe indebted * 1.95 vnto Harding / which against Maister Iewell / alledging the co∣uncell off Carthage / to proue that it commaunded nothing sho∣uld be red in Christes congregation / but the Canonicall scriptu∣res answereth with the same wordes the D. doth / charging him with falsehood. To whom as now also to the D. the bishop an∣swereth / that the meaning off the councell vvas, that no∣thing els shoulde be red: which he proueth by the councell off Hippo / an abridgement off that off Carthage: whene it is thus written. The scriptures canonicall vvhich are to be red in the * 1.96 church, and beside vvhich nothing may be red: and so goeth for¦ward alledging other testimonies / affirming partly that nothing owght / partly that nothing was wont / to be red in the church be∣side holy scripture.

His answer to the councell off Colen / is too childish. The councels wordes in the sixt Canon are these / vvhere in times past yt vvas ordeined off the most holy fathers, that the holy scri∣ptures alone shoulde be red in the church: vve knovve not by vvhat carelesnes, other not to be compared vvith them, are come into their place. Wherby appeareth / that it condemneth not onely reading off sainctes liues, wheroff it speaketh after: but generally the breach of the councels decree / that nothing should be red in the church / but holy scripture. Where he museth how we can say, that reading off homilies were meanes to instle the bible into corners, seing we will haue the reading of scriptures giue place to preaching: I haue shew∣ed how grosse / and intollerable ignorance it is / where I proued the excellency of preaching before simple reading off scriptures / but especially before homilies. The obiection which I made off * 1.97 praier / is answered: the answer is not ones moued, as for that the

necessity off chaunging the wordes off scripture in praier, is as strong against sermons preaching, as homilies reading: I haue shewed how false it is: when as that chaunge is autorised by precise commaundement off God / which can not be shewed for reading homilies His re∣ason that the Apocrypha may be red in the church / becawse the councell off Carthage decreing onely the reading off canonicall scripture / tooke them in that nomber / adding that they be aswell red in the church / as counted portions off the ould / and new te∣stament: is absurd. For seing it is vtterly vnlawfull for them / to take them as portions off the ould / and new testament: yt follo∣weth by his owne reason / that it is vtterly vnlawfull for them / to be openly red.

Where he saith / there is nothing in them contrary to the rest off the scripture, accounting them as a part: althowgh the reason be no∣thing worth / considering that so a booke gathered owt off Cato / Theognes / and Cebes tables / &c. may be red in the churche: yet I answer / that there be many places partly plainly contrary to the holy scripture / partly friuolous / and vnworthy to be red. For Esoras Apocrypha / I will refer the reader partly vnto Cal∣uins * 1.98 censure of them (the treatise I doo not precisely remember / sauing that it is like to be in one of those against the Anabaptists / or Libertines / whose gospell those bookes be) and partly to the manifest contradiction with the holy scripture: which referring * 1.99 the genealogy off Esra vnto Eleazar / to whom the priesthood belonged / is by the Apocrypha referred vnto Ely / and consequen∣tly vnto Ithamar / to whom yt did not apperteine. Off some off the other I will gyue a few examples. Where the holy gost con∣demneth the fact off Simeon / and Levy towardes the Sichemi∣tes: Iudith in propounding it for example / and to strenghthen her faith in the cutting off off Holofernus head / alloweth yt. If it be saied / but the booke doth not allow it. The scripture neuer propoundeth a faultie praier withowt condemning off it / especi∣ally so long.

The sonne off a 1.100 Syrach / affirming that the true Samuell prophecyed after his death / leaueth the disquieting off the iust / in the courteousie off coniurers: which is vngodly doctrine / and contrary to that peace the b 1.101 scripture saith they be in. where

c 1.102 Daniell sheweth that the fire bourned / after the three young * 1.103 men were throwen into it / to the commendation of the power of God / which kept them from suffring in any part off it: the coun∣terfait d 1.104 Daniell / affirming that the Angell smote the flame off the fire owt of the fournace / and cawsed as it were a moist hissing winde in the middest / &c. partly falsifieth / partly discrediteth Da∣niel / as one that lefte owt such weightie thinges as he there sup∣poseth. I passe by how vnworthy yt is / that e 1.105 he that hath oue∣reaten him selff / is bidden to rise / and goe vomit / and after get him self to rest: which are preceptes fitter for the kitchin / then for the church Likewise f 1.106 the Iewish fable / of the fire takē to be hid∣den / and other such toies / and of g 1.107 commending him that slue him self: off h 1.108 demaunding pardon off the reader / a language vnmeet for the holy gost. Thes few off a nomber which come to minde / shall suffise for a tast.

And be cause the D. tasteth nothing but autoritie off men / he hath i 1.109 Ierome of this minde: which writing to a woman / bid∣deth her take heed off all the Apocrypha, affirming that they are not theirs vvhose names they beare, that there are many faulty thinges mingled, and that it requireth vvisdome, to see∣ke for gold in durt. k 1.110 The hymne also off the three children / he runneth throwgh: where Erasmus iestingly saith / it is merueill that Ierome putteth this song vpō the spit (meaning / condem∣neth it) seing it is both red, and soung in churches euery vvhe∣re, as if it vvere some speciall holy thing. Wherby it is not vnlike but that he speaketh in another place / off the reading off Apo∣crypha to edyfying off the people, not to confirmation off the doctrine is spoken rather story wise / in telling what was doon in that time / thē what he allowed. for if it be daungerous for one to read them priuately / howe must it needes be more to read them openly? onles it be with exposition / which is yet more absurd. Except paraduenture to reconcile Ierome / one had rather inter∣prete those wordes the church reades, off the priuate reading of euery one off the church: wheroff there are examples.

Now I must put the D. also in minde / that nether in his first /

nor later booke / he hath answered the Adm. reason / towching pri∣uate reading onely of the Apocrypha: because their name vvhich signifieth secret, or hid doth speake as much. If he will say / they are so called because the writers of thē are vnknowen: he can not so escape / cōsidering that this name doth put a difference betwe∣ne them / and canonicall: which it could not / if that signification should be followed. for part of the writers of canonicall bookes / as of Iosue / Iudges / Sam. Chron. Kinges / &c. are vnknowen. To that wherin the booke is charged / for lifting vp of diuers cha. of the Apocrypha, to be red as extra ordinary lessons vppon feast daies, vvherin there are greatest assemblies, some chap. off ca∣nonicall scripture being not red at all: he answereth not a word / but leaueth it to speake for it self. Seing then the scripture pre∣cisely forbiddeth to ordeine a pastor not fit to teach / and bare re∣ading off homilies is conuenient / off holy scriptures insuffici∣ent to saue the people by / which are the cruches wherewith the D. would vphould this lame ministery: it followeth together with the shamefull absurdities / off reading to be preaching / to be as good / yea better then preaching: that vnpreaching pastors as the pestilence off the church / owght to be throwen owt.

Now I retourne backe to the 7. Tract. off Ministers ap∣parell / * 1.111 wherunto albeit I was determined (as may appeare) to reply: yet considering after / that this cawse hath bene so fully debated / both by bookes in print / and other treatises written in the handes of as many as desire after them: considering also that the D. second answer (beside false accusations / as that men haue * 1.112 learned off me, and my parteners to esteme the surplis, &c. corrupt in them selues &c. open facing downe off thinges in knowledge off all men / as that none are hindred one iot from comming to the gospell by pre∣script apparell: bare affirmacions withowt proofe / as that no mini∣ster * 1.113 making conscience off wearing thapparell, will rather weare it moued by example off other, then by the law which commaundeth it: almost con∣tinuall * 1.114 reasoning not to the matter / which he cowardly dissem∣bleth / as that Prophetes (which were extraordinary ministers) had an extraordinary apparell, which is not denied (which traine taken at * 1.115 the beginning / is followed to the end): triumphes in his owne

shame / •••• appeareth in the place off Salomons Ecclesiastes): I say beside thes considering that he hath almost nothing at all? not before answered / and that he hath not fetched from any tre∣asury off good learning / but as taken vp by the highe way side•• and considering that we haue this question with very few (him / the Papistes / or those which haue already cast an eye vnto the papistes / onely excepted / with whom to trauaill in this point before their other gale be purged / were to heale the skinne / and leaue the bones still broken) all thes things considered / with that that it may better appeare / we take not these thinges for the grea¦test matter we cōplaine of: I thowght good to tread this treatise vnder my foot / and to saue some good howres / which might be lost in vnripping this beggery. That I saie off hauing this que∣stion with very few / him / &c. excepted / I meane in that where he saith the surplis, square cap, and tippet be most conuenient, decent, and come∣ly: * 1.116 others in whom there is any loue off the truth / confesse it a weed vnmeet for a minister of the gospell / which not able to root owt / they are for certeine causes content to beare with. And al∣thowgh destitute off answer / he plie his matter with accusati∣ōs of disobediēce / and contēpt of magistrate: yet I doubt not but with all indifferent / our open / and simple profession off the ne∣cessitie off higher powers / and off the honour / and humble sub∣mission to Her Maiestie / and all magistrates vnderneth her / et∣her in doing thinges commaunded / or patiently suffring for that which we can not with good consciēce doo / shall be sufficient de∣fense, especially seing that euen in this matter off apparell / it is confessed / that obedience owght to be giuen / where the comma∣undement is with iniury to the ministery.

As for the D. ether error / or flattery / that in thinges indifferent com¦maunded by the Magistrate, we owght not to haue such regard to the offense * 1.117 off the weake, but that if all should be offended, that is to say perish / and make shipwracke off conscience (for that is the offense which S. Paul / and we after him speake off) yet we owght to doo that which is commaunded: the Magistrate being therby lifted aboue the Lord / we vtterly condemne. Considering it being a flat commaunde∣ment off the holy gost / that we absteine from thinges in their o∣wne nature indifferent / if the weake brother should be offended:

no autoritie ether off church / or commen wealth / can make yt voide. And where the magistrates commaunding / and owr obe∣dience vnto him / owght to be squared owt first by the loue off God then off men / our brethren especially: this new carpenter / as one that frameth his squire according to his tymber / and not his timber according to the squire / will make our obedien∣ce to the cyuill Magistrate / the rule off the loue off God / and our brethren. So that in steed that he should teach / that we may o∣bey no further vnto the magistrate / then the same wil agree with the glory off God / and saluation off our brethren: he teacheth that in thinges off their owne nature indifferent / we must haue no further regard / nether to saluacion off our bethren / nor to the glory off God (which in neglect of their saluacion is troden vn∣der food) then will agree with doing that the magistrate com∣maundeth. * 1.118 But I am gone further then I thowght: seing there cā hardly be any so symple / which perceiueth not easely / both the fondnes / and absurdity off his answers in this question.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Eze. 44. 8
• * 1.2

  pag. 153.
• * 1.3

  Math. 24. 45. Math. 13: 52.
• * 1.4

  Ad Oce∣anum.
• * 1.5

  pa. 2••2.
• * 1.6

  pa. 484.
• * 1.7

  Diuis. 3. 253. 1, Tim. 3. 2 Tit. 1. 9.
• * 1.8

  Mat 13. 52
• * 1.9

  1. Tim. 3. 1
• * 1.10

  Diuis 2. pag. 44.
• * 1.11

  Rom. 15. 14. Heb. 3. 13.
• * 1.12

  Cap. 4. vers. 6.
• * 1.13

  Diuis. 4. pag. 260. Iam 5. 14. Lu. 9 c 2. Pag. 133.
• * 1.14

  Math. 10. 16. 17.
• * 1.15

  Math 28. ••••.
• * 1.16

  Diuis. 15.
• * 1.17

  Cypr. l. 3. Epist. 1.
• * 1.18

  2. Tracte. accordīg to the D. Diuis. 16. pag. 484.
• * 1.19

  Heb. 13. 5. Agg. 2. 9.
• * 1.20

  Diuis. 17. Pag. 484.
• * 1.21

  Lib. de Past.
• * 1.22

  Greg. E∣pist. 1. 33.
• * 1.23

  Esay. 56. 10.
• * 1.24

  4. Eph. 11
• * 1.25

  Diuis. 1. pag. 568.
• * 1.26

  pag. 717.
• * 1.27

  Diuis. 2. Pag. 969.
• * 1.28

  Diuis. 3. pag. 569.
• * 1.29

  Rom. 10. 14.
• * 1.30

  1. Cor. 1. 21.
• * 1.31

  Rom. 10. 15.
• * 1.32

  Esa. 52 8.
• * 1.33

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.34

  Diuis. 4. 570.
• * 1.35

  1. Gal. 8. 9.
• a 1.36

  Psa. 191.
• b 1.37

  1. Ro. 23
• c 1.38

  1. Ro. 18
• d 1.39

  Iere. 10. 14 Abac. 2. 18.
• e 1.40

  Iob. 12. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 6. 26
• f 1.41

  Io. 1. 5. 21
• * 1.42

  Diuis. 5▪ pag. 571. Ioh. 3 14.
• * 1.43

  Diuis. ••. Pag. 172.
• * 1.44

  Iohn 12. 32.
• * 1.45

  Gal. 3. 1.
• * 1.46

  Diuis 6. pag. 572.
• * 1.47

  2. Cor. 2. 16. 2. Tim. 2. 15.
• * 1.48

  24. 27. 32.
• * 1.49

  Math. 16. 19.
• * 1.50

  Diuis. 7. pa 722. 1. Cor 3. 6
• * 1.51

  Pou. 29. 18.
• * 1.52

  pag. 577.
• * 1.53

  pag. 576.
• * 1.54

  Apoc. 11. 3.
• * 1.55

  Diuis. 8. Pag. 573.
• * 1.56

  Heb. 11. 6. Ro. 10. 14
• * 1.57

  Ro. 10. 14 ••. Cor. 21. Ro. 1. 14.
• * 1.58

  Act 8. vers. 31.
• * 1.59

  Diuis. 9. pag. 574.
• * 1.60

  Pag. 717.
• * 1.61

  Ephes. 2.
• * 1.62

  Math. 6. 16. &c.
• * 1.63

  1. Ro. 1••.
• * 1.64

  Diuis. ••. pag. 575.
• * 1.65

  569.
• * 1.66

  2. Cor. 2: 15. Heb. 4. 12 Diuis. 2. pag. 576. 1. Tim 32
• * 1.67

  Is. 50. 4.
• * 1.68

  Malach. 2. 7.
• * 1.69

  Exod 6. 12.
• * 1.70

  Diuis. 3. pag. 576. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉
• * 1.71

  1. Ro. 15.
• * 1.72

  Diuis. 4. pa 577.
• * 1.73

  Deut 27. 2. 3. & 6. 9 & 11. 20. 21.
• * 1.74

  Diuis. 4. pag. 570.
• * 1.75

  vers. 3. 4.
• * 1.76

  8. Nehē 7. 8.
• * 1.77

  Luk. 4. 17 &c. Act. 13. 15 & 15. 21. vers. 12.
• * 1.78

  Diuis. 5. Pag 577. Act. 15. 21
• * 1.79

  Pag. 784.
• * 1.80

  in diu. 10. pag. 243.
• * 1.81

  Pag. 297.
• * 1.82

  Exod. 30. 29. Num. 10. 2.
• * 1.83

  Heb 8. 9.
• * 1.84

  Num. 10. 8. Is. 58. 1.
• * 1.85

  Rom. 10. 15.
• * 1.86

  pag. 718.
• * 1.87

  Ibi. diu. 5.
• * 1.88

  Gal. 4. 14 2. Cor. 5. 20. Diuis. 5. Pag. 718.
• * 1.89

  Hieron. in catal. illustriū script.
• * 1.90

  3. lib 16. Lib. 3. 27.
• * 1.91

  Lib. 2. 23. Lib. 3. 3.
• * 1.92

  pa 720.
• * 1.93

  Diuis. 6. pag. 720.
• * 1.94

  Diuis. 7. pag. 71••. 59 can.
• * 1.95

  In the def Apo∣lo. 5. part. 3. cha 10. dluis.
• * 1.96

  chap. 38.
• * 1.97

  Diuis. 8. Pag. 721.
• * 1.98

  In his O∣pusc.
• * 1.99

  Apoc. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 li. 1. c 2 &c ••sd•• •• 2. Gen. 34. 2•• Gen 49 5 Iudith. 9. 2. 3. 4.
• a 1.100

  Chap. 4••. 20.
• b 1.101

  Luk. 16 22.
• c 1.102

  Dan. 3. 23. 25.
• * 1.103

  Apoc. 14. 13.
• d 1.104

  ver. 49. off the 3. childrens song.
• e 1.105

  Ecclesi∣asticus 31 21.
• f 1.106

  Macha. 2. 2. 1. &c.
• g 1.107

  & 2. 14. 38. 42.
• h 1.108

  & 2. 15. 39.
• i 1.109

  ad Lae∣tam.
• k 1.110

  Ierom. In praef. in Dan. ibid. Ieron. praef. in prou.
• * 1.111

  Pag. 256. in 32. sec. pag. 28.
• * 1.112

  Pag. 256.
• * 1.113

  257.
• * 1.114

  258.
• * 1.115

  262.
• * 1.116

  pag. 25••. 285.
• * 1.117

  Diuis. 4. pag. 258. 1. Cor. 8. 7. 11. Rom. 14. 50. 20. Rom. 14. 15. 21.
• * 1.118

  1. Cor. 8. 12.