A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C.

To the second Article.

There was neuer hereticke so abhominable / but that he had some truth to cloke hys falshode / should hys vntruths and blasphemies / driue vs from the pos∣session of that / which he holdeth truely? no not the Deuill hym selfe (saying / that * God had geuen his angels charge ouer his) can thereby wring this sentence from vs / why we should not both beleue it / and speake it / being a necessary truth to beleue / and speake. You may as wel say / we are Anabaptists / because we say / there is but one God / as they did / one Christ / as they did. &c. And heere I will geue the reader a tast of your Logike / that you make so much of in your boke.

The Anabaptists say that the churches ought to chuse their minister / and not the magistrate.

And you say so.

Therfore you are Anabaptists / or in the way to Anabaptisme.

The Anabaptists complained that the Christians vsed not their authoritie in excommunication.

And so do you complaine.

Therfore you are Anabaptists / or in the way to them.

I will not lay to your charge / that you haue not learned Aristotles Prio∣rums / which sayth / it is asystaton, as often / as the meane in any syllogisme / is cō∣sequent to both the extremes. But haue you not learned that / whych Seton / or any other halfepenny Logik telleth you / that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the second figure? and of thys sort / are euery one of your surmises contained in thys Treatise / whych you entitle an exhortation. &c. And if I liked / to make a long boke of little matter (as you do) I would thus gather your argumēts out of euery brasich whych you ascribe / as common vnto vs wyth the Anabaptists / as you make adoe / vpon euery place / whych is quoted by the admonition to the Parliament. But answer I pray you / in good faith / are you of that iudgement / that the ciuill magistrate should ordaine ministers? Or / that there should be no excommunication / whych we know was in the primitiue / and is vsed in certaine the Heluetian churches? If you be / your controuersy is not so much wyth vs / as wyth the byshops / whych both call ministers / and excommunicate. If you be not / why is that Anabaptisticall in vs / whych is christian and catholike in you? and why do you go about / to bring vs in hatred for those things / whych you do no more alow / then these / whom you thus endeuor to discredite? We do not say that there is no lawfull / or no ordinary calling in England / for we do not deny / but that he maye be lawfully called / whych is not ordinarily / as M. Luther / Melancthon / Zuinglius / Oecolampadius. &c. and there be places in England / where the ministers are called by their parishes in such sorte / as the examples of the scripture do shew to haue bene done / before the eldershyp and gouernment of the church be established. I know not any / that saith / that the gospel is not true∣ly

preached in Englande / and by those also that are not of the same iudgement / that the Admonition to the Parliament is of. But if it be sayd / that it is not ge∣nerally of euery one of them / and in all poynts / or not so oftē / or not there / where their duety bindeth them / and they are called vnto / or not so sincerely / or wyth∣out mixture / as it oughte to be / then there is nothing sayde / but that / which we feare / may be too easely proued. If it be sayde of some / that in certaine there are found some of those things / that were reprehēded in the Phariseis / what is that to proue / that they be Anabaptistes y^• speake it. Your selfe in one place of your booke / call the authors of the Admonition and their fauourers / Phariseis / who do all thyngs to be seene of men / and therefore they sighe / and holde downe their heades. &c. and thys you speake / against them that preache the gospell. There∣fore by your reason you geue sentence of Anabaptisme against your selfe. You promised you would not wryte one worde / wherof you had not your author for it. First you haue peruerted the meaning of the Anabaptists / in that wherein they accused the godly ministers / that they were not according to that whych is wrytten in the third of the first Epistle to Timothe / and all because you would multiply the nōbre of your likelyhodes. For they charged the ministers / by that place / of dissolutenes and losenes of lyfe / and corruption of manners / and we al∣ledge it to proue that they should be able to teache and instruct / against y^e dumbe ministery that is abrode. But that which followeth / vttereth not only great vn∣truth and falsification of the author / but sheweth a minde desirous to slaunder / and sory (as it seemeth) that those whych you so greeuously discredite / are no li∣ker the Anabaptists / then they be. I will sette downe the wordes / as they are wrytten in the. 102. leafe / that it may appeare howe faithfully you haue dealt. Libere enim dicunt concionatores qui stipendium accipiunt, non esse veros Dei ministros, neque posse docere veritatem, sed esse ventris ministros, qui otiose acci∣piant ingentia stipendia, ex illis rebus, que simulachris immolate fuerunt, & ex di∣uitiis splendide & luxuriose viuant, cum tamen Christus dixit, gratis accepistis, gratis date, & prohibuit duas tunicas, peram & pecuniam habere. Preterea Paulum aiunt manibus suis laborasse, & mandasse reliquis, vt idem faciant, itaque conclu∣dunt nulla debere stipendia habere sui officii, sed laborare & gratis ministrare, & quiahoc non faciunt, non posse ipsos veritatem docere. They say freely (speaking of the Anabaptists) that the preachers whych take stipends / can not be the true ministers of God / nor teache the truthe / but are ministers of the belly / whych to liue idlely take great stipendes / of those things whych were offered to images / and doe of their riches liue gorgeously and riotously / when notwithstanding Christe sayde / ye haue receiued freely / geue freely / and for bad them to haue two coates / or a scrip / or money. Besides that / they say that Paule laboured with hys owne handes / and gaue commaundement / to the rest of the ministers / that they should do so / and therefore they conclude / that they should haue no stipende for their office / but laboure and minister for nought / and because they doe not so / they can not teache the truthe. Nowe / let all men iudge / whether it be one thing / to say / that they ought not to haue stipends / that labor not / or to say / as the Ana∣baptists sayd / that it was not lawfull to haue any stipende / or to say / they coulde not teach truely / because they had great liuings / or because they had any liuings at all. Although I neuer red / nor heard any of those / that you meane / saye / that those whych had great stipends and liuings / could not preach truely. It may be / that diuers haue sayd / that it were meete / the ministers should be content / wyth competent stipends / and that the ouerplus of that / myght go to the supply of the wants of other ministers liuings / and to the maintenance of the poore / or of the vniuersitie / and that that exces / is the cause of diuers disorders in those persons / that haue it / but that they could not preache truely (when they preached) whych had great liuings / I for my part / neuer heard it. I thinke you would not be ex∣empted

from reprehension of that / wherin you fault / and therfore I knowe not what you meane by these words (y^e they did not those things them selues / which they taught others) we profes no such perfection in our liues / but that we are of∣tentimes behinde a great deale / in doing of that whych is taught to be our due∣ties to doe / and therefore thinke it necessary / that we should be reprehended / and shewed our faultes. Whereas you say / that the Anabaptists accused the mini∣sters / for geuing too much to the Magistrates / I haue shewed what we geue / and if it be too little / shew vs / and we will amend our fault. I assure you / it gre∣ueth me / and I am euen in the beginning weary / of turning vp thys dunge / and refuting so vaine and friuolous slaunders / wythout all shewe and face of truthe / and therfore I will be breefe in the rest.

Notes

• Psal. 91. 11. Math. 4. 6.