A reply to Fulke, In defense of M. D. Allens scroll of articles, and booke of purgatorie. By Richard Bristo Doctor of Diuinitie ... perused and allowed by me Th. Stapleton.

¶The seuenth Chapter. That he hath no other shift agaynst our manifold Euidences (so cleare they be) but the name of Only Scripture, as well about ech controuersie, as also about the meaning of Scripture it selfe: And how timerous he ma∣keth vs, and how bolde he beareth him selfe herevpon.

WHat shamefull confessions he hath bene fayne to make agaynst his owne side, and for our side, it hath here many ways in sundry chapters appeared already. But the same will now againe appeare much more clerely, if in this Chapter we runne ouer the cōmon Euidences of Chri∣stian truth, out of which I framed my declaration in my bookes of Motiues and Demaundes, and consider that he is fayne to confesse them al to be against him, and therfore to take exception agaynst them, and say, that neither they, nor any thing els that can be brought foorth, is good euidence in such suites, but Scrip∣ture alone, and such Scripture also as is so playne and manifest for the matter, that it can not by any subtiltie be auoyded of the aduersarie. For he knoweth well pardy, that we bring foorth not other euidences alone, but Scripture also with them. But the o∣thers he séeth to be so playne, that there is no remedie vnlesse they be cancelled. Mary from our Scriptures he hath an euasion, as he thinketh, to wrangle and say that they be not playne and euident for vs, but so that he can wrest thē to an other meaning.

The first part. How he excepteth by Onely Scripture, against all other Euidences in the controuersies that are betwene vs.

j. Against the rule to know heresie, &c.

Well then, let vs heare him speake in his owne words: and first, how he maketh his exception, being charged many wayes with the crime of heresie. Notable it is, both to the confirmation of the Catholike, and also to the conuersion of the Heretike, to beholde how the more that he fluttereth to get out, the more he wrappeth him selfe in the lime.

* 1.1Whereas you bragge (saith he to D. Allen) to note vnto vs e∣uery one of our Capitaines, by their names, and the seuerall er∣rors that they taught, and the time and yere when they arose a∣gaynst the former receiued truth: Except you note vnto vs the Patriarkes, Prophetes, Apostles, Euangelistes, and Christ him self, you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise. For we teach nothing but the eternall truth of God. Wherfore we refuse not to be counted heretikes, if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the Scripture. And immediatly: You may perchaunce note the names of them, that preaching the truth of our doctrine against your receiued errors, were accoun∣ted of the world (so he tearmeth them whom he him selfe confes∣seth to haue bene the true Church) for heretikes. But you muste proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God, or else all your labour is in vayne.* 1.2 And for example: (more store the Reader may sée here in the third Chapter,) I will not dissemble, (saith he) Aërius taught that prayer for the dead was vnprofita∣ble, as witnesseth both Epiphanius and Augustinus: which they account for an error. But neither of them both reproueth it by the Scripture.* 1.3 And the same againe in another place: Nowe at the length commeth the author of this heresie by the testimonie of Epiphanius and Augustine. But neither of them confuteth it by the Scriptures.* 1.4 And in an other place, thus boldly: For our parte it is sufficient, that we knowe God in his holy word to be the first founder of our doctrine, and therfore that they lye blasphemou∣sly, which would make any heretike the author of it. And there∣vpon he concludeth, forsooth with great honestie, saying: Wher∣fore,* 1.5 if Aërius had not bene an Arrian, this opinion could not haue made him an heretike. Where, to passe that blasphemie, on∣ly this I say,* 1.6 that he séemeth not to know the purpose of S. Au∣gustine in that booke De haeresibus ad quoduultdeum, whiche he saith was likewise the purpose of Epiphanius, not to cōfute, but only to report the heresies that had bene before his time, and that not without great profite to the Reader, Cum scire sufficiat, &c. because it is inough onely to know, that the Catholike Churches iudgement is against these, and that no man must receiue into his beliefe any one of these. And agayne: Multum adiuuat cor fide∣le, &c. It greatly helpeth the faithfull heart▪ onely to know what

must not be beleeued, although he bee not able to confute it by disputing. Loe then, you faithfull heartes, the case is so cleare,* 1.7 that the very aduersarie confesseth, both that the same was the true Catholike Churche, and also that it iudged Aerius to be an heretike: helpe your selues therefore, and make your profite of this confession, assuring your selues vpon the Catholike Doc∣tors lesson, that séeing the Church was against Aerius, the scrip∣ture could not be with him, because one Spirit of truth speaketh both in the Church and in the Scripture. As for Fulke, and all that he here saith, you sée it is no other then if Aerius, Iouinia∣nus, or Vigilantius had said vnto you, Aske my fellow whether I be a théefe. Naught else it is that he there againe concludeth for those thrée heresiarkes, saying: Thus,* 1.8 you are not able to name any, which preached any article of our doctrine, but the same was consonant to the Scripture. Of the same sort also in an other place: Therefore (M. Allen, or,* 1.9 S. Augustine rather) if you will teach your Schollers to keepe vs at the baye as heretikes, you must not teach them to bark and baule, nothing but the Church the Church, like tinkers curres,* 1.10 but you must instruct them to o∣pen cunningly out of the Scriptures, how our doctrine is contra∣rie to the truth, and yours agreeable to the same. Againe like one that would appoint his enemie not to inuade him with a gunne, because he knoweth not how to saue him selfe from the shotte of it, but to take some other weapon, & that of his making, in an o∣ther place he saith, And especially in this controuersie,* 1.11 where ei∣ther partie chargeth other with heresie (howbeit, I trow, his par∣tie chargeth not so S. Epiphanius, & S. Augustine, though they so charge his Patriarke Aerius) it had bene conuenient, that the right definition or description of an heretike had bene first set downe, that men might thereby haue learned, who is iustly to be burdened with that crime. For an heretike is he that in the Chur∣che, obstinately maintaineth an opinion, that is contrarie to the doctrine of God conteined in the holy Scriptures, which if any of vs can be proued to doe, then let vs not be spared,* 1.12 but condem∣ned for Heretikes. In déede if an Heretike, be a man in the Chur∣che, you are cockesure, and not only you and Aerius, but Arrius, Pelagius, & all other heretikes that euer were: & we rather with S. Augustine, S. Epiphanius, and such others, in daunger. To

this place it belongeth that againe he sayeth:* 1.13 M. Allen giueth a speciall note, that wee name not Iouinian, or Vigilantius, the playne auouchers of our opinions: but rather labour to writh with plaine iniurie to the Author, some sentence out of Augu∣stine, or Ambrose, or some other, that opened them selues to the world to beléeue the contrarie: And thinketh we are ashamed of the other. In deede if we depended vpon any mans authoritie, or that any man or men were the Authors of our fayth, wee should bee iniurious vnto them if we dyd not acknowledge our founders, But seeing God him selfe is the Father of that doctrine, which we haue receyued by his holy worde, we are not asha∣med of Vigilantius nor Berengarius, when they agree therewith. Onely the Canonicall Scriptures are the rule, by which we iudge of all men and their writinges, of all doctrine and the teachers thereof.* 1.14 Agayne: And therefore it is but vayne bragging, that you promyse to seeke out other Fathers of our perswasion, then the Apostles of Christ▪ by whose holy writinges, we neuer refuse to be iudged. For the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth, with the guidance of Gods spirite. And agayne: You spend ma∣ny wordes in vayne,* 1.15 to pro••e, that the first author of an opinion beyng found, the opinion is found to be an heresie. It shall bee graunted with all fauour, but so that no man shall be counted the first author of an opinion that is able to proue his opinion out of the word of God. And withall, that whosoeuer is not able to proue by the word of God, any opinion, that he holdeth obsti∣nately, though he haue many authors before him, yet he is neuer∣thelesse an * 1.16 heretike. And so much of their first authors founde out by vs, as Aerius, Iouinianus, Vigilantius, and such other old heresiarches, condemned (he confesseth) by the true Church of Christ, but contrarie (he saith) to the Scriptures of Christ.

Now on the other side, being vrged by D. Allen to finde in like maner our first Authors, or els it will follow, the Apostles to be our authors,* 1.17 heare what he saieth therevnto: Must we finde out the authors of your heresies? nay iustifie them your selues by the word of God if you can. You shall not compell vs to tell you, where, when, or how your heresie came in. It chaufeth him, that we shew so plaine an euidence against his side, & he can not shew the like against vs: and therefore he is faine to flie againe to his

cold exception of onely Scripture, as though to iustifie our doc∣trine by the Apostles, and that so sensibly, were not ynough.

But most ridiculous of all it is, to sée him come in with this exception, where D. Allen alleaged Tertulliā for this rule.* 1.18 That doctrine (saith Fulke) which is first (agreable to Tertullians rule) is vndoubtedly true, and that which is later, is false. But how shall the first doctrine be knowen, but by the word of God, wherein all the doctrine of God is taught?* 1.19 Tertullian there hath an other rule against such heresies as presumed Inserere se aetati Aposto∣licae, To say that their founders liued in the Apostles time. But this our rule he giueth against all such as rise any time after, as Aerius, Luther, Caluin, &c. bidding vs then to cōsider what was taught & beléeued immediatly before they arose: for y^e vndoubted∣ly is the truth, and their later doctrine is falshood. Now then how ridiculous is it for Fulke to run from Tertullians meaning, & yet to pretend that he agréeth to Tertullians Rule?

The same rule, with an amplification also,* 1.20 & in the same mea∣ning, doth likewise Vincētius Lirinēsis geue, to wit, If any No∣ueltie arise at any time, yea & preuaile so much afterward in pro∣cesse of time, as to make an vniuersall corruption, so y^t almost no countrey of Christendome be frée frō it, (as this marchant boa∣steth at this day of the most of Europe, Englād, Scotland, Ireland,* 1.21 Fraūce, Germany, Denmark, Suetia, Bohemia, Polonia, & a great number also in Spaine, & Italy) that then we looke vnto Antiqui∣tie, that is, to the time before such noueltie preuailed, & before it arose: as what was taught & beléeued immediatly before Luther beganne these innouations. And therefore alike ridiculous it is, that he saieth: We refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lirinensis,* 1.22 concerning Antiquitie: so you can proue that it hath God to be the Author, the Prophetes, and Apostles. As for witnesses vnder this antiquitie, we passe not for them. Why man? The rule that you receaue, proueth it? The Apostles (I say) to be the Authors of our solemne prayer for the dead in the holy Masse, and of any other such article, because it hath such antiquitie as I haue now said, and as Vincentius meant.

And so much, vpō the Rule of finding out y^e first authors of any doctrine, and the same therefore to be hereticall: or not finding them, and the same therefore to be Apostolicall. Whither is to be

referred that Rule also of D. Allens, that such as commonly by Christian people be named Heretikes,* 1.23 alwayes proue in the ende to be heretikes in deede, notwithstanding their craking of Gods word. Wherevnto Fulkes exception is the selfe same againe, saying:* 1.24 The true Christians at this day being of the Papistes (which after a sort are named Christians) called heretikes, and in reproche Protestantes and Caluinistes: in that their faith agreeth with the word of God, proue themselues in deede to be true Chri∣stians and no heretikes.

ij. Against the Apostles Traditions.

* 1.25Now let vs heare, how he maketh his saide exception also a∣gainst the Traditions of the Apostles. Thus he speaketh: M. Allen referreth the institution of Prayer and Sacrifice for the dead, to the tradition of the Apostles. Of whom will he be afeard to lye, when he fathereth such a blasphemie vpon the Apostles. Soft man, be good to D. Allen for their sakes that followe. For you your selfe goe forward in the same place, and say: But who is witnesse that this is the tradition of the Apostles? Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, Ieronym, and a great many more. This you could not, and therfore doe not deny, but come in with your stale exception, saying: But if it be lawfull for me once to pose the Papistes, I would learne why the Lorde woulde not haue this doubtlesse institution, plainely, or at leastwise obscurely set forth by Mathew, Marke, Luke, or Paule, which all haue set forth the storie of the institution of the Sacrament? If it were not meete at all to bee put in writyng, why was it disclosed by Tertullian, Cyprian,* 1.26 Augustine, &c? Likewise in an other place: If prayer for the deade was appoynted by the Apostles commaunde∣ment, why is there neuer a worde thereof in their writinges? If I were disposed to pose you, this question woulde make you clawe your poll a hundred tymes before you coulde ima∣gine any collourable aunswere: for right aunswere you shall ne∣uer be able to make. In déede a doughtie question it is. As though if a Christian can not answer euery why of y^e Infidel, our Religi∣on therfore is straight in hazard.* 1.27 It may trouble a wise mā to an∣swer al the questions that a foole cā propound, you say your self. And yet neither you, nor any other Infidell shall euer finde the

learned to séeke. It is for your religion to be to séeke of answers, because it began but yesterday, and is neither yet throughly sha∣ped. But the Catholike, which is the only Christian Religion, comming of God, & so many hundred yeres sithence continuing, hath bene by our forefathers and the holy Ghost so sifted to our hands, that the answere is alwayes ready, afore the question be demaunded.

Briefly therfore S. Augustine one of our Masters and Doctors in Christ, hath taught vs, if we be posed about the Churches order in Baptisme, to answere,* 1.28 that Serie Traditionis scimus, By the course of tradition we know what things are to be done therein, although they be not expressed in the Scriptures, and that, for breuities sake. So likewise, being posed about the order of this other Sacramēt, to answere, Quia multum erat, &c.* 1.29 Because it was much for the Apostle to signifie in his Epistle to the Corinthians the whole order of the action that the vniuersall Church through all the world obserued: therefore hauing saide somewhat of the same Sacrament, yea and as much as all the Euangelistes, by and by he added, And when I come,* 1.30 I will prescribe the rest of the orders. Vnde intelligi datur (saith S. Au∣gustine) And thereby we may vnderstand, that whatsoeuer is not varied in any varietie of vsages, was of his prescribing. This is our answere, and you knew it partly before.

For you say: I know the Papistes will flye to those words of the Apostle,* 1.31 The rest I will set in order when I come. And good reason, S. Augustine teacheth vs so to do. And what say you to him for it: But that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comelines, (and not of doctrine of the Sacrament, as Prayers and Sacrifices) that no man which vnderstandeth what diatazesthai doth signifie, can doubt or make any question of it. Be it so, as you say: But what? haue you forgotten the thing wherof you speake? Is it not of that Solemne prayer for the dead in the celebration of the Sa∣crifice? That prayer (we say) is diatazis, one of S. Paules ordi∣nations: What vnproper speach is here? specially S. Augustine saying agayne in another place:* 1.32 Hoc enim a patribus traditum vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia.

This being a tradition of the Fathers, (that is, the Apostles) the whole Church obserueth (and therefore it is such a thing as nulla morum diuersitate variatur) when they which are departed in the cōmunion (or vnitie) of the body and

bloud of Christ, be in their place mentioned at the same Sacrifice, To pray for them, and to mention that for them also it is offred.

Thus you haue a piece of the cause, why the Scriptures contei∣ned not the whole order of celebration of the Sacramēts, to wit, for breuities sake. And what doth that or any other cause let o∣ther writers to make mention of such things, when Aerius the heretike compelled them, or any other iust occasion was mini∣stred? You imagine, (and that deceiueth you) as though the Apo∣stles purposed to put all in writing. Which if they had, neither so many of them,* 1.33 nor one of them so often, would haue mentioned one thing. But as the purpose of the holy Ghost in the bookes of the Olde Testament, was principally, to foreshew manifoldly Christ and his Church: so in the bookes of the New Testament, as in the gospels,* 1.34 to shew Christ, euen to Consummatum est, and Impleri omnia quae scripta sunt de me. And in the Actes of the A∣postles, to shew Christes Church according to the old predictions, beginning amongst the Iewes, and increasing to the Gentiles, yea and remouing with S. Paule from Hierusalem the head of the Iewes, worthily reprobated, and setting in Rome the head of the Gentiles, by mercy elected. And all this but as it were the first birth of the Church: for Consummatum est, could not be tolde by way of a Storie, before the ende of the world: though foretold it is (the whole course, I say, of the Church, euen to the glorious consummation thereof) in the Apocalipse. The other Bookes were written, specially agaynst the perfidious Iewes, and other false Masters of that time: As likewise in euery age afterward, agaynst the seuerall heresies of eche age, we haue the Ecclesiasticall (I say not, Canonicall) writers and Councels. And therfore, vnlesse any thing belonging to ech time, be omitted in the writings of ech time, no maruaile at all for the omission of other things, which there was then no suche occasion to expresse. This I should haue reserued to an other place, but that this inso∣lent Poser might not abide any delay.

* 1.35Now then to go forward with him: I know (saith he) the Pa∣pists will answer, that Tradition is of as good credit as the Scrip∣ture,* 1.36 and is the word of God vnwritten, as well as the Scripture is the word of God written. And good reason, for the Scripture it selfe so teacheth vs. But why then (saith he) do they not obserue

all things that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be Tra∣dition? This Why, I haue answered in the sixt Chapter.* 1.37 More∣ouer he saith: Their writings are to vs the onely true testimonie of their tradition. So were they not to the Thessalonians. For they had of S. Paule, Traditiones per sermonē & per epistolam,* 1.38 Traditions partly by word of mouth, partly by writing. Yea he saith further: When the Apostolike writing can not be shewed, it is but the poynt of an Heretike to boast of Apostolike tradi∣tion. So he saith to D. Allen. But to the old Fathers I hope he will be somewhat better, and content to take only his exception against them: as where he saith:* 1.39 If Tertullian had no ground of his saying, when he affirmed that Oblations for the dead came from the Apostles, what ground can Augustine haue, which was 200. yeres further from the Apostles time then he? Againe:* 1.40 Chri∣sostome can no more proue, that Prayer for the dead came from the Apostles, then Tertullian can proue that oblation for the dead came from them. Againe: But where he saith,* 1.41

It was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy mysteries a re∣membrance should be made of them that are departed, He must pardon vs of crediting, because he can not shew it out of the Acts and writings of the Apostles. We must not beleue Chrysostome without Scripture, affirming that it was ordeined so by the Apo∣stles.

Howbeit sometime he is bolder yet with the Fathers for a∣uouching this Tradition. He dare not call them heretikes for it: but yet he dareth to charge them with doutfulnes & contradiction about it. For of Chrysostome he saith:* 1.42 Lo (M. Allen) your owne Doctor confesseth it is but small helpe, that can be procured by praiers, almes, or remēbrance of thē at the celebration of the holy Mysteries. You will say, that soone after he saith, The Apostles that instituted such memory, knew that much cōmoditie came to the dead. Then see how soone he forgetteth himself, when he fol∣loweth not the rule of holy scripture. And againe:* 1.43

Yet did not praying for the dead so preuayle in the Primitiue Church, that they durst define, what profite the soules receiued thereby: for Chrysostome saith: Let vs procure them some helpe, small helpe truly, but yet let vs helpe them. Likewise Augustine,

* 1.44

where he prayeth for his father and mother, declareth how vncertayne he was of the matter. One while he feareth the daunger of euery soule that dyeth in Adam: An other while he beleeueth, that

they neede not his prayer, yet he desireth God to accept the same, and moue other men to remember them in their prayers. Thus it is necessarie that they wander, which leane vnto mens traditions without the word of God.

And in the same place: S. Augustine in his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda, wearieth him selfe, and in the end can define nothing in certayne, how the Saintes in hea∣uen should heare the prayers of men on earth. Such doubtfulnes they fall into, that leaue the worde of God, & leane to traditions. Although he were willing to mainteine Inuocation of Saints,* 1.45 yet he hath nothing of certentie out of the worde of God, eyther to perswade his owne conscience, or to satisfie them that moued the doubtes vnto him. For S. Augustine De cura, I haue answered in the third Chapter.* 1.46 In his Confessions he is not vncertayne of the matter, as you pretend, but of the persons néede, and that but of his mothers néede (not also of his fathers, as you say) because she was so perfit a woman. Euen as our faith also of the matter is most certayne: though of our particular friendes state after their departure, we be vncertayne.

For concerning the liuing also,* 1.47 was Iob vncertayne of y^e profitablenes of Sacrifice, because earely in the morning he vsed to offer for his children, after they had bene feasting together, Dicebat enim, ne forte peccauerint fi∣lij mei, For he said, lest peraduenture my children haue sinned?

And touching S. Chrysostome, whom you thinke so very a childe to forget him selfe so soone, your selfe in déede a very childe for so thinking: He there speaketh first of a) 1.48 them, Qui cum peccatis suis hinc abscedunt, Which go hence with their sinnes, and saith, that they can not be holpen after their death. Then he speaketh b) 1.49of them, Who are departed in the faith, but yet being rich, they did not procure by their riches any comfort to their owne soules. To these, we that are their friends, may with our riches & pray∣ers procure some helpe, but litle in respect of that they might haue procured them selues. So saith he. He speaketh in such a compa∣rison. Neither is the Apostolike Memento within his compa∣rison, although it might haue bene well inough. For although by it come much commoditie, much vtilitie, to the dead: yet nothing so much when it is procured by their friends, as when it is pro∣cured by them selues: specially, because a mans owne works are also meritorious of euerlasting rewarde. so are not his friendes

workes, they are not meritorious vnto him at all, no nor so sa∣tisfactorious of temporall paine, as his owne, nothing like.

iij. Against the Churches authoritie.

And so much of the Apostles and their Traditions.* 1.50 You shall now heare him make the same exception against the Churches Practise and Iudgement. But admit (saith he) that the Church of God in Tertullians time vsed prayers and oblations for the dead. Let vs consider vpon what ground they were vsed. Tertullian himselfe shall say for me, that the same custome, with many o∣ther which he there rehearseth, as comming from the Apostles, hath no ground in the holy Scripture. It is good to take that which is so frankely geuen: and more is Tertullian to be com∣mended, that confesseth the ground of his error not to be taken out of the word of God, then they that labour to wrest the Scrip∣tures to finde that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them. You are hastie to take it, but Tertullian doth not geue it, as I haue plainely shewed you in the third Chapter.* 1.51

Againe, he excepteth against the Churches Practise in her Li∣turgie or Masse, and saith: We haue with more honestie refour∣med our Liturgie according to the word of God, then Gregorie,* 1.52 Basil, Chrysostome, or whosoeuer were authors of those Litur∣gies, did leaue the auncient Liturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time, and forge them new of their owne, contrary to the word of God: we neither refuse the Latine Church, while it was pure, nor receiue the East Church wherin it was corrupt: But the Scripture is a rule vnto vs to iudge all Churches by. And yet that we may not thinke him a coward, he saith else where to D. Allen. But to follow you at the heeles (as farre as you dare goe:* 1.53

I will agree with S. Augustines Rule▪ (quod legem credendi, lex sta∣tuit supplicandi, the order of y^e Churches prayer, is euer a plaine prescription to all the faithfull what to beléeue:

so saieth S. Au∣gustine, and so doth D Allen alleage it: but because Fulke could not make his florish with that end forward, he turneth the staffe, as though S. Augustine and D. Allen had said:* 1.54) that the law of beleeuing, should make a law of praying. And then he bestirreth him selfe like a man, and addeth of his owne: But faith if it be true, hath no other ground but the word of God: Therfore pray∣er if it proued of true faith, hath no other Rule to frame it by, but

the worde of God. And by and by after: Which rule (of onely Scripture) if Augustine had diligently followed, in examining the common error of his time, Of prayer for the dead at that time, he would not so * 1.55 blindly haue defended that which by holy Scrip∣ture he was not able to maintaine.

And no lesse bold he is with the Practise commended euen in the Canonicall Scripture it selfe: Seeing this fact of Iudas Ma∣chabaeus,* 1.56 hath no commaūdement in the Law, it is so farre of that it is to be drawē into example, that we may be bold to condemne it for sinne and disobedience.

Now concerning the iudgement of the Churche, he excepteth against it likewise,* 1.57 saying: As for doubtes that arise by difficul∣tie of Scripture, or contention of heresie, they must be resolued and determyned, onely by Scriptures. For there is neuer * 1.58 here∣sie, but there is as great doubt of the Churche, as of the matter in question. Onely the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mannes conscience. As though that heresies neuer made doubt of y^e scrip∣tures also, eyther of all, or of some péece, namely your selues now of the Machabées. And expressely against his owne Churche he maketh the same exception,* 1.59 saying: And the Protestantes in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiors, so farre as their Su∣periors are ruled by Gods word. Againe, Among the Protestan∣tes, to the Church of Saxonie, humbly affected is the Churche of Denmarke: to the Church of Heluetia, the Church of Fraunce: to the Church of England, the Church of Scotland: But so, that none of these allow any consent or submission, but to the truth, which must be tried onely by Gods word. With that but so you will consent, I trow, to Iackstrawe also: and therefore it is a marueilous humble affection, that your Churches haue one to an other.* 1.60 Your owne Churche of England in generall Parliament, was then much to blame, to enact foure Rules for condemning of heresie. First, if it were against Canonicall Scripture. Secōd∣ly, if it were against y^e first .4. Generall Councels, or against any one of thē. Thirdly, if against any other general Coūcel also, but y^e with your acception, to wit, so far as y^e said Councell followed the line of Scripture: and fourthly, simpliciter whatsoeuer this high Court of Parliament shall adiudge to be heresie. You not∣withstanding haue written, as before. And agayne: Neither do

we require you to beleeue any one companie of men,* 1.61 more then another: but to beleeue the truth before falshood, which you must search in the word of truth. It was belike for this, & much other such Apocriphall stuffe, that your booke was kept in so long, and in the end also faine to come forth without priuiledge.

Yea he is so peremptorie in his exception,* 1.62 y^e most absurdly he attributeth to y^e Apostles themselues without scripture no more then to Iackstraw, and consequently with scripture as much to Iackstraw as to y^e Apostles. For thus he saith speaking of D. Al∣len: He speaketh it because he beleeueth it.* 1.63 He would faine coun∣terfeit his speach like the Apostle: but the ground of his beliefe is not, as the Apostles was, the word of God, but the practise of mē, which though they were neuer so good, yet they were suche as might deceiue and be deceiued. Againe,* 1.64 where he abuseth that which S. Paule speaketh to the Galathians of preaching, & their receiuing of it, & turneth it as spoken of onely Scripture. It vex∣eth you at the very hart (saith he) that we require the authoritie of the holy Scriptures, to confirme your doctrine, hauing a plaine cōmaundement out of the word of God, that, if any man teache otherwise then the word of God alloweth, he is to be accursed. As though S. Paul there commaunded to accurse him self, and al the Apostles, & the vniuersall Church of Christ, if they confirmed not all their doctrine, with expresse Scriptures, in such maner as you here require. No Syr, nothing so: Onely he accurseth them, which should preach contrarie to that he had preached, & the Ga∣lathians had receiued, which was (as you see) traditiō by mouth, in which maner he taught them & other Churches all Christian Religion, & therein as one principall point, the Canon of y^e scrip∣tures, both old & new, if at the leastwise any Bookes of the newe as then were written, which could not be many before the Epi∣stle to the Galathians, being (as by conference of times it may well be proued) the first of all S. Paules Epistles.

And so much of the Churches authoritie in her Iudgements, and Practise, namely of her diuine Seruice. Whervnto I ioyne, as the principalles in the authoritie, first the Councells, and se∣condly y^e Popes. For to thē likewise he maketh his exceptiō,* 1.65 say∣ing: Wherfore if any Coūcell decree according to the Scriptures, (as the Coūcel of the Apostles did Act. 15. & the Coūcel of Nice,

with diuers other,) we receiue them with all humilitie, as the ora∣cles of God. But if any Councell decree contrarie to the authori∣tie of the Scriptures, (as many did) without all presumption or pride we may iustly reiect them.* 1.66 Then of the other: Yet is not all that Gregorie writ, of equall authoritie with the word of God: without authoritie whereof, we beleeue not an Angel from hea∣uen, as I haue often shewed, much lesse a Bishop of Rome. And not onely against eche Pope seuerally, but also against their whole line and entire Succession he excepteth in like maner, say∣ing:* 1.67 Although we could rehearse in order as many Successions in our Church, as the Papistes boast of in theirs, yet were that no∣thing to proue it to be the Church of Christ, which must be tried onely by the Scriptures. And a little after: We require at the Pa∣pistes handes, that they shew them selues to hold the Church, not by Succession of Bishops, or rehearsing of their names, but onely by the Scriptures. For although wee did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly Succession on our side, wee would not require men to beleeue vs, but onely because wee proue the doctrine of our Churche by the authoritie of the Scriptures. In déede we must acknowledge,* 1.68 that you deale very frankely with vs, to renounce so fréely such a goodly euidence, because you can not make so much as any shew thereof. For otherwise, when you haue any collour of any thing at all, what mountybanke pedler is so facing, so boasting, so vaunting, as you and your fellowes.

iiij. Against the Fathers.

* 1.69Now after all this I will open his like excepting against the Fathers both in generall, and also expressing diuerse of their names, although it hath bene opened in part alreadie by other oc∣casions.

And touching the first: true it is that he often braggeth much of the Fathers which liued in the first a 1.70 two hundred, or b 1.71 one hundred yeares, chalenging vs to proue our doctrine out of them, and not out of the later Fathers after them, euen with as much reason as he commonly chalengeth vs to proue all out of y^e scrip∣tures, vtterly without all ground, & but méere voluntarily, * 1.72 the one, as the other: which ensample therefore is much to be noted. But here notwithstanding I shall declare, howe he excepteth smothly and simply, against all the Fathers, against all in gene∣ral,

and expresly also saying were they neuer so auncient. Wher∣in how well he agréeth with him selfe I deferre to the eleuenth Chapter. And in effect he hath already so done, in calling so often afore for Onely Scripture. But yet to shew it more manifestly, and as it were the very face it selfe, thus he saith:* 1.73 Whatsoeuer he was, or howe long soeuer it be since he wrote, because it hath not authoritie in the word of God, I weigh it as the wordes of a man, whose credit in diuine matters is nothing without the word of God. Againe:* 1.74 When all authoritie out of Gods word faileth you, wherby you should proue that the soules departed receiue benefite by the merites of the liuing, you flye to the authoritie of men. But mans authoritie is to weake to carie away so weightie a matter. Away with mens writings, shew me but one Scripture to proue it. Againe: If for these and an hundred suche,* 1.75 you can shew no better warrant then the tearmes of your fathers, the pra∣ctise of your elders, or the authoritie of mortall men, the curse of God by Esay, must nedes be turned ouer vnto you. Againe:* 1.76 Your reasons either be manifest wrestings of the holy Scripture, or else are buylded vpon the authoritie of mortall men. Againe:* 1.77 We neede no shift, M. Allen, for the authoritie of the Doctors, whom we neuer allow for Canonicall Scriptures: and therefore we may boldly say, Whatsoeuer we find in thē agreable to the Scriptures (he meaneth, expressed in the Scriptures) we receiue it with their prayse? and whatsoeuer is disagreable to the Scriptures, we re∣fuse with their leaue. Againe:* 1.78 Now touching the credite and worthinesse of these whom M. Allen so highly extolleth: as I would not go about to diminish it, if they were to be compared with vs: so when they are * 1.79 opposed against the manifest worde of God, and the credite of the holy Apostles the ministers of the holy Ghost: there is no cause that we shoulde be caried away with them.

That which he saith here (as his Masters taught him) of mor∣tall men, D. Allen knew aforehand, and forewarned the Reader thereof, where he said: [Melancton,* 1.80 as though he were no man that might erre himself, saith the Doctors were men.] And againe to sée their absurditie, in the same terme of mortall men,* 1.81 are comprehēded also the Apostles them selues: and if they sometime séeme to separate them selues from it, they meane then by the

Apostles nothing but the Scriptures of the Apostles. As Fulke in certaine places noted before, and againe where he saith to D. Allen:* 1.82 You shal neuer bring vs to acknowledge that S. Paule is against vs in any article of our faith, but we agree wholly with him. Neuerthelesse I know what you meane, and I will not be a∣frayde to vtter it. For as much as immediatly after the Apostles time corruption entred into the Church, you thinke that we dare not depend vpon any one mans iudgement, and therein you are not deceiued, for we must depend only vpon Gods word. Euen so dealt the vnbeléeuers and the doubtfull and weake with the Apostles in their life time, yea and with Christ him selfe: and yet to winne such persons, both the Apostles, yea and Christ himself, condescended to them accordingly. If the Protestants would in like sort haue dealt with him & them, not to haue beléeued them in any thing without Scripture, the faithfull (I thinke) for all that were not so straite laced, but beléeued them vpon their own word, not Christ onely, but also his Apostles, because of the spi∣rite of truth that he sent to them, and not to them onely, but also to his Church after them for euer: and therefore they will also no lesse at all times beléeue the said Church for the same spirite, assuring them selues, that the saide spirite agréeth still with him selfe, whersoeuer and howsoeuer he speaketh, be it in the Scrip∣tures, or be it in the Church, and in the Church Primitiue, or in the Church of later times: and agayne in the Pastors of the Primitiue Church, as the Apostles, or in the Pastors of the Church afterwarde at any time in generall Councell or other∣wise consenting together.

It is no maruayle after this generalitie, to sée him now except against the Fathers in particular, naming the times, and the persons.* 1.83 as first the times, where he saith: The other writers of later yeres (after Ireneus and Iustinus) we are not afrayde to confesse that they haue some corruption, wherby you may seeme to haue colour of defence for Inuocation of Saintes, prayer for the dead,* 1.84 and diuers Ceremonies. And, Although the custome of praying for the dead be an auncient error, so that few of the later writers there are, but they shew them selues to be infected there∣with, yet they had no ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing.* 1.85 Againe: But of memories of the dead, and prayers

for the dead also, we wil not striue but that they were vsed before the times of Cyprian & Ambrose: but without warrant of Gods word or authoritie of Scriptures, but such as is pitifully wrested and drawen vnto them. Againe:* 1.86 But it sufficeth you that your forefathers, more then a thousand yeres ago, called the place of sufferāce, Purgatory. But I pray you what is it called in the Scrip∣ture, either of the old Testament, or the new? Diuers errors be ol∣der then a 1000. yeres: but age can neuer make falshood to be truth, and therfore I weigh not your * 1.87proud brags worth a straw. Againe: And this was a great corruption of those ancient times, that they did not alwayes weigh what was most agreable to the word of God, but if the Gentiles or Heretikes had any thing,* 1.88 and the rest as aboue in the third Chapter. And againe:* 1.89 Those of the auncient Fathers that agreed with you in any part of your asser∣tion, notwithstanding many excellent giftes that they had,* 1.90 dissen∣ted (therein) from manifest truth of the Scriptures.

And so by name likewise he saith of certayne, as for example: Damascene your doctor should first haue reproued that perswa∣sion by Scripture. Againe:* 1.91 The supposall of S. Augustine is sette downe, which because it is but the authoritie of a man, it is not of sufficient weight to beare downe the testimonie of Gods word. Againe:* 1.92 And euen the authoritie of Athanasius without the word of God, is the authoritie of man. We count not all his wri∣tings for Canonicall Scriptures, but we iudge them by the Cano∣nicall Scriptures. And againe:* 1.93 Gregorie Nissene and Athanasius the Great, There is no cause why we should beleue either of them both in an article of faith without the authoritie of the word of God.

The second part. Beeing told that the question betwene vs is not (as he maketh it) of the Scriptures authoritie, but of the meaning: howe there likewise against all the Expositors he maketh the same exception of Only Scripture, requiring also Scrip∣ture to be expounded by Scripture.

Now after all this froth of words, let vs sée him come once to the poynt, & report him self the substance of our matter. These be his owne words: But the controuersie is not (M. Allen fayth) of the authoritie of the Scriptures in this matter,* 1.94 but of the true

meaning of them, which it is more like that they (the Doctors) being such men, then we so farre inferior to them, should know. And what saith he therevnto? I answere, saith he, and yet not one worde there to the question. Else where he saith therevnto, (as I will report anone his words) that also the meaning of y^e Scrip∣tures must be searched out of the Scriptures onely. Well syr, but whencesoeuer and wheresoeuer it must be searched, who is more like to finde it, the Doctors, or you? and so, neither that which you saye in other places, answereth the question. But in this place (reade it who list) your answere is quite & cleane frō the questiō, which was, Whether be more like to know the true meaning of the Scriptures, the Doctors, or you? And yet you pype vp the triumph there and say: Thus haue these Heretikes no ground of their heresie: but shift from the word of Scripture to Tradition, from Tradition to the meaning of Scripture, from the plaine meaning of Scripture to the opinions of men. Yea and he counteth him selfe and his companies happie for such blinde presumption to search the meaning of the Scriptures onely out of the Scriptures without the commentaries of the Doctors, (but not also) I trow, without the Commentaries of Caluine and such like companions) thus he saith:* 1.95 And happy be those, which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth, but seeking to the onely fountayne of hea∣uenly truth, conteined in the holy Scriptures, haue certaine com∣fort of saluation.* 1.96 And againe to the same purpose: Surely as the Sunne is not obscured with the dust that a Cock casteth vp when he scrapeth on the dunghill:* 1.97 no more is the Sonne of righteous∣nesse, or the light of his holy worde, darkened by all the myste of mens deuises, which Allen, or his complices can rayse out of the whole heape of superstition and error, to deface the glory of his Church. The worde of the Lord is a light vnto our steppes, and therefore we will not walke in the darknes of mens traditions. Our doctrine shall one day be tried before God, and therefore we make no account how we be iudged by mans day.* 1.98 (So properly he vttereth his presumption in the words that the Apostle clene contrarie did speake in excéeding great feare.) It foloweth: Your way is your owne way, & not the way of the Lord: and because you take another way vnto saluation then the onely right waye

Iesus Christ, therfore by his owne sentence, you are al theeues and murderers. Hath any séene a man so drunken, so blinded, with pride?

Well then: in the other place, of searching the meaning out of the Scriptures them selues alone, and neglecting the receaued Expositors, what saieth he? Whether the old Doctors be more like to vnderstand the Scriptures then the Protestāts:* 1.99 I haue an∣swered before, we will make no comparison with them. Modestly spoken, a man would thinke: but what followeth? Neither will we chalenge the likelihood to vs, neither will we leaue it to them. I mary, hold your owne we pray you. And why so? For whether soeuer we doe, we shall be neuer the more certaine of the trueth. You say true, for so much as concerneth your selues. For in déede no certaintie of trueth, but most certaine certaintie of error, in your vnderstanding. But in what so euer the Doctors doe agrée, who so expoundeth the Scripture vnto that, shall be euer most certaine of the truth (which is ynough) though not alwayes cer∣taine of that same very places meaning, as in the sixt Chapter I declared more at large. Forth now, a Gods name:* 1.100 But this will we set downe as a most certaine principle, that no man can vn∣derstand the Scriptures, but by the same Spirite by which they were written. The meaning of some place one may attaine vnto, which hath not that Spirit: but to vnderstand them alwayes a∣gréeably to the truth, can not be without that same Spirit. Forth againe: What then? shall we arrogate the Spirit as proper to vs, and denye it to them? God forbid. They had their measure of Gods spirit, and so haue we. Hereof ariseth an obiection. How then? is the Spirit of God contrarie to it selfe, because they and we agree not in all thinges? He answereth, God forbid. Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with Gods Spirit, yet they agre∣ed not both in one interpretation nor iudgement of the scripture. Yea Syr, Cyprian as he was of Cornelius his Spirit, so was he likewise of Cornelius his iudgement, implicitè as we tearme it, though explicite he were of an other, of an erronius iudgemēt, and that according to his owne humane spirit, and not according to Gods Spirit. As at this day likewise, and alwayes, whensoe∣uer any Catholike man of ignoraunce erreth expressely, yet not∣withstanding in effect he is of the trueth with the other Catho∣likes

which erre not, because he quietly continueth in vnitie with them, nor doth not obstinatly holde his owne error against them. Now whether the case be so betwene the olde Doctors and you, briefly and manifestly it is declared by this, that neither you at this time will be refourmed by them, nor they in their time would be refourmed by your forefathers, Aerius, Iouinia∣nus, and such like.

But now that you haue abrogated the vnderstanding of the Scriptures from Gods spirite both in the Doctors and in your selues, say on, and tell vs your aduise: What then? there remay∣neth but this seconde principle as certayne as the first, That the Spirite of God hath a meaning in the Scriptures, which is not to be sought out of the Scriptures in the opinions of deceiuable men, but only in the Scriptures, where is nothing but the spirite of truth. No syr, why? suppose those men were the Apostles them selues, or any other hauing the same spirite of trueth that the Apostles first had, but of that ynough before: foorth therefore: Therefore that the spirite may declare his owne meaning,* 1.101 one place of Scripture must be expounded by an other, (for the hard places of Scripture must be opened by easie places) all other or∣dinary meanes and helpes, of wit, learning, knowledge of tongs, diligence in hearing, reading, and praying, are subordinate, and seruing to this search and triall. And is this way so sure and cer∣tayne? I mary. For who soeuer obserueth this search and triall most precisely, shall come to the knowledge of the trueth most certaynly. And may he not trust an other which hath so precise∣ly obserued it? as for example, the Protestantes, me thinkes, as your selfe, or M. Caluine, &c. but I crie you mercy, you meant not them. Well then, may he not trust the olde Fathers therein?* 1.102 or did not they obserue it diligently? No: for who so euer is negligent in this search and tryall, though he haue other∣wise neuer so many and excellent graces and giftes, may easily be deceiued, yea (you speake nowe a great worde) euen when he thinketh he followeth the authoritie of the Scriptures. Which (search) if the auncient Fathers had alwayes followed, they should not so lightly haue passed ouer some thinges (as to con∣demne the Protestantes in Aerius and Vigilantius, &c.) and o∣ther thinges so slenderly haue mainteined, (as the doctrine of

the Papistes.)

Well then, I sée, all is in a mans owne diligence, to trust no man nor men, but to reade the Scriptures, conferre the places, and so gather the meaning by him selfe: this is your most certen way. I must therefore tell you a litle of our diligence therin, that you may certifie vs whether it be ynough, or no. and the rather because you exhort our master D. Allen, and say to him:* 1.103 Trye the rule of the Protestantes, and search the worde of God in the holy Scriptures, and then vndoubtedly you shall finde the trueth, and the Church also that is the pillar of trueth. And againe,* 1.104 Who haue the trueth, you must search in the worde of trueth, desiring the spirite of trueth, that you may vnderstande and beleeue the trueth: and so without doubt you shall come to the knowledge of the trueth, and of the Churche of God whiche is the pillar of truth. So it is then good syr: In this Seminarie of English di∣uines vnder the gouernement of D. Allen, mainteined by his ho∣lines for the saluation of our countrey (as he mainteineth the like for Germanie also, for Bohemia, and Students of Polonia,* 1.105 Suetia, Slauonia, Hungaria, &c. yea for the Gréekes likewise, yea also for the Hebrues) we haue such exercise in the scriptures, that we reade ouer y^e old Testament, in euery thrée yeres, twelue times, one of which times hath ioyned with it an examinatiō by conferēce from Chapter to Chapter, and from verse to verse. The new Testament we reade ouer in the same thrée yeres, sixtéene times, with a treble examinatiō of the same sort. And not cōtent with those examinations, we afterwards write moreouer in pa∣per bookes, & lay together al the sentences that belong to the con∣trouersies of this time, euery one in his place. And without all vanitie, to speake one word of my selfe, after many yeres studie afore after the maner of Englād (as many of your owne side can beare me witnesse) I haue since then folowed this foresaid trade nine yeres. This is partly our diligence in the scriptures, besides much other exercise both in the same and in all the studie of diui∣nitie. What more diligence would you haue vs vse? this is the principall, and (as you make it) all in all. All other helpes you counte but subordinate and seruing vnto this. And yet in them also, I dare saye, if you knewe vs, you woulde al∣lowe vs for sufficient at the leaste: You maye, by the

trace of God, ere it be long, haue some taste of vs therein, when one of vs shall set forth a booke to shew to the world, that the He∣brew and Gréeke textes, in nothing make for you against vs, and in very many things make for vs against you much more plain∣ly, then our vulgar Latine text. Now then, how much more cer∣taine of the trueth be we, then you, also by your owne rule, be∣cause your diligence herein is nothing comparable: but special∣ly, because together with this rule we vse the expositiōs that you renounce, of the auncient Fathers, who for such conference of places, and all other studie of the Scriptures, were pearlesse.

¶The third part. What he meaneth by his Onely Scripture: and that thereby he excepteth also against Scripture it selfe.

Thus haue we heard this Protestant call for expresse Scrip∣ture in all things, yea also in the expounding of Scripture. Now, that he séeme not too straight and rigorous in his exception, he will tell vs what he meaneth therby, as it were to geue vs more scope, but in déed (as we shall heare soone after) to shut vs straigh∣ter vp, and to except also against Scripture it selfe, vnlesse it be so plaine and euident for vs, that by no subteltie of theirs they may auoide it.

Concerning the former, thus he saith: When we require ex∣presse Scripture for euery controuersie, we doe not require that euery thing should be named in Scripture, but necessarily conclu∣ded out of the true meaning of the Scriptures and purpose of the holy Ghost in them. Then on the other side, he almost repenteth himselfe againe for graunting so much, and saieth: And yet we may say,* 1.106 it is a great preiudice against your Purgatorie and pray∣er, that it is not so much as once named in the Scriptures. Againe, If the holy Ghost had euer allowed Prayer for the deade, he would once at the least haue vttered the same plainely, in holy Canonicall Scriptures.* 1.107 Canonicall he saith, to except against the very meaning of it also, which he séeth in the bookes of the Ma∣chabées: rather shall that Canonicall Scripture not be Canoni∣call, for so plainely naming that which the eares of the Prote∣stantes can not abide.

Well, in the other Canonicall Scriptures the name is not, and that is a great preiudice against vs. But he will be fauoura∣ble vnto vs, a great preiudice shal not make him geue iudgement against vs, if at least The thing it selfe be taught or can be pro∣ued by the Scriptures. Yet againe he remembreth him selfe,* 1.108 that D. Allen hath alleaged many Scriptures for that thing, and the old Fathers likewise before him: and therefore to tye vs yet straighter with another exception, he said here a little afore, But we require that euery thing be necessarily concluded out of the true meaning of the Scriptures. And againe he saith, speaking of D. Allen: See the confidence of the man, he is sure,* 1.109 that if we were examined of our conscience, what tryall of this doubt we would wish, there is none we could name, but his cause might well abide it. Wherevnto he answereth, saying: Why M. Allen, we haue testified of our conscience long agoe, that the onely authoritie of Gods word written, shall satisfie vs, as well in this as in all other matters. If you were able we should haue heard before this time some sentence of Scripture, to maintaine prayer and sacrifice for the dead. (Why? in the third Chapter here you confessed that you haue heard of him diuerse sentences, and not of him alone,* 1.110 but al∣so of the Fathers of the true Churche. Yea but now saieth he, I adde my exception, and say therfore, some sentence) not standing vpon voluntarie collection, but either in plaine wordes or neces∣sarie conclusion. For there is nothing that we are bound to know, nothing that we are bound to doe, but either in expresse wordes, or in necessarie collection (which is as good as expresse wordes) it is set forth in the holy Scriptures. Againe,* 1.111 All truth may be pro∣ued by Scripture, either in plaine wordes, or by necessarie conclu∣sion, which is all one. And againe:* 1.112 There is * 1.113 no heresie so ab∣surd, which Satā putteth into the head of wicked men, but it may finde some sound of words in so many Bookes of the holy scrip∣tures, that by peruerse wittes may be wrested vnto it. But the doc∣trine of Gods trueth and all articles of our beliefe, are plainely taught in the Scripture, either by manifest wordes, or by necessary conclusion and argument, which by no subtiltie of Satan or his instrumentes, may be auoided or deluded. And this is the diffe∣rence betweene heresie and truth, when they both appeale to the authoritie of Scripture. Which difference as it may be found in al

heresies, so in none more notably, then in this error of Purgatory. Consider what texts of holy Scripture are alleaged * 1.114for it, & you shall see they can not bring one, out of which any necessary argu∣ment may be framed to proue their cause, or which hath not by learned interpretors of the olde time bene otherwise expounded then of their cause.* 1.115 Yea and more then that, The worde of God doth neither expresly, nor by any probable collection allow it, but manifestly condemne it.* 1.116 Againe, He could not with any semely colour establish purgatorie, by the authoritie of the Scrip∣ture, the onely testimonie of Gods word and will reueiled, and confirmed by his holy Spirite. The Machabées to be euen so con∣firmed as well as the other bookes, he can neuer auoyde, and in effect he graunteth, as I shall note in the eleuenth Chapter a∣mongst his contradictions. Which is sufficient, I trow, to make at the least a séemely colour, and a probable collection: but in déede also a conclusion so necessary, that he can neuer answere it, but by shaking the authoritie of all the Canonicall Scriptures, in derogating from their confirmation which yet him selfe doth attribute to the holy Spirite.

The fourth part. What great promises he maketh to bring most euident Scrip∣ture against vs, and also by Scripture to proue his sence of the Scripture: Triumphing also before the victorie, & saying, that we dare not be tried by Scripture, but reiect the Scriptures. Wherevpon a fourefold offer is made vnto him.

Now that we haue séene howe precise he is with vs, to admit [ 1] (1) no euidence that we alleage, but Scripture onely, both in all controuersies, and also in the exposition of Scripture: and againe [ 2] (2) no Scripture, which maketh so playnly with vs, that he can not auoyde it but by denying it to be Canonical, though he graūt it to haue the confirmation of the same true Church, which mo∣ueth him, as the holy Ghost, to receiue the other Scriptures for Canonicall: and againe (3) no Scripture that he confesseth to be [ 3] Canonicall, vnlesse it make so expresly, so playnly, so manifestly, and so necessarily with vs, that it can not by any suttletie be a∣uoyded. It were to be séene nowe on the other side, what Scrip∣tures he alleageth against vs, whether he obserue him selfe the

law that he so rigorously prescribeth to vs, whether his Scrip∣tures be so playne, so manifest, so euident, that by no sutteltie they can be auoyded. But that we shall sée in the next Chapter: no nede of sutteltie, I assure you, to auoyde or delude them, so friuolous are his allegations, that with al facilitie and truth we shall answere them. Here in the meane time, in the ende of this Chapter, I will onely lay forth his great promises aforehande, and so come orderly to the matter.

And to omit, if he should haue to do with all the old and newe heresies, what manifest & necessary confutations he would frame against them all and euery one, out of the Scriptures alone, ha∣uing fréely afore them renounced al other probations, according to his former sayings here, that all truth, and, all articles of our beliefe are playnly taught in the Scripture, and may be so proued by Scripture, & that there is nothing that we are bound to know, nothing that we are bound to do, but it is so set forth in the scrip∣tures:* 1.117 I will charge him no more but with his promise that he maketh of so confuting vs by playne Scriptures, notwithstan∣ding that all other euidences make for vs in such sort as he hath already confessed. Thus he saith:* 1.118 And that which I haue to saye in confutation of your heresie, shall be no worse then the very word of God it selfe, which is better then the consent of all the world against it. And againe:* 1.119 I am one of the least of Gods Mi∣nisters, yet by his grace and authoritie of his holy word, I shal be able to ouerthrow both this and all other Babilonicall bulwarks that are cast vp by Satan & all his instruments for the defence of Popish heresie against the truth of God. And neither the myst of mens inuētions (which you cal the light of Apostolike tradition) shall be able to darken the truth of the Gospell: nor the errors of mortall men (which you terme the force of Gods trueth) shall beare downe the authoritie of Gods holy spirite. Againe:* 1.120 We be able to shew manifest euidence that our aduersaries doctrine is cleane contrarie to the Scriptures of God. Againe:* 1.121 We affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in stead of true Chri∣stianitie, but that which we hold, as we are ready to proue by the word of God. Againe: I can proue by S. Paules writings,* 1.122 that in all articles of faith, he taught the same which we beleeue. And for triall of this, because it would require a whole volume,

if I should proue euery perticular article, wherein we dissent from you Papistes: If you will name an article (in the next Chapter your selfe shall name ynowe. Yet, if you will, let it be this: that Antichrist is not one certaine person, and that the Churches flée∣ing into the wildernesse at his comming, is to become inuisible to the world: and that the beginning of that comming and fleing, should be so soone after Christes passion: the continuaunce, so ma∣ny ages: the end, so long before Christes second cōming.) where∣in we agree not with S. Paule, If I be not able to proue that we agree with him in the meaning thereof, I will reuoke that article and agree with you therein. Yea and also to proue his owne meaning, and to disproue our meaning, when we both alleage Scriptures, he will séeke, as he required of vs, to nothing like∣wise but Scripture it selfe. For the meaning of the worde (he saith) you should beleeue vs rather then the Papistes, because our groundes and proues are better then theirs: or els we require not to be beleeued better then they. And there againe: If you bring out a false sense, we beleeue you not, because we knowe it to be false, and are able to proue by the word of God, that it is contra∣rie to the meaning of the holy Ghost.

* 1.123These are his worthie promises. Of which he hath béen so li∣berall, belike, because he knewe that we dare not once appeare, when Scriptures be alleaged by the Protestantes. For such are his wordes.* 1.124 We can shewe no cause in the world (you say) why wee neede in any one point of controuersie depart from your Church. Yet M. Allen, this one cause shall serue for all, because your Church is departed from the truth of Gods word, and dare not abide the tryall thereof, but will sitte like a proude dame in a Chaire,* 1.125 and controll the Scriptures. Againe: The Popish Church can by no reason chalenge Apostles, Euangelistes, and Prophets, seeing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writinges. Againe: The spouse of Christ, heareth the voice of Christ,* 1.126 and is ruled thereby. But the Romish Church will in no wise be ruled Onely by the voyce of Christ: therefore she is not the Spouse of Christ.

Where, by his foysting in of the worde (Onely) in the Minor, we may note the cause that moueth him to say, that our Churche refuseth the Scriptures: as if he should say, that we refuse faith,

because we refuse only faith: or that any man refuseth his owne best euidence, because he will not at the instance of his aduersa∣rie renounce all his other euidences, be they neuer so many, ne∣uer so good, neuer so well tried and so much vsed by his aunce∣tors, & also most agreable, euery one of them, to his foresaid best euidence.* 1.127

He saith moreouer, She hath nothing lesse then the true sense of Gods word, which submitteth the same to her owne iudgemēt.* 1.128 Againe: The Popish Church so manifestly dissenteth from the word of truth, that she dare not be iudged thereby, but most blas∣phemously submitteth the same to her owne iudgement. Againe, In the Popish Church Gods word is made subiect to mens deter∣minations and authorities. And againe,* 1.129 By which it is manifest that you do reiect the whole authoritie of all the Canonicall Scriptures: when you affirme that no booke of holy Scripture is Canonicall, but so farre foorth as your Church will allowe it. Moreouer when you will not admit any sense of the Scripture, but such as your Church will allow.

Here are two other causes of the same againe: As if he would say, that the Apostles in their time, or the Church then,* 1.130 submitted and made subiect the Scriptures to men, most blasphemously, and onely of their owne will,* 1.131 because they tooke vpon them to iudge of the true sense: and namely S. Peter, for saying, that the vnlearned (him selfe being but a fisherman) and the vnstable, do misconster S. Paules Epistles, sicut & caeteras Scripturas, as also the other Scriptures, to their owne damnation. And againe, as though the same Apostles, and the Church after them, manifestly reiected the whole authoritie of all the Canonicall Scriptures,* 1.132 & did al only of their owne will, because they made a Canon or Ca∣nons (as all the lawes of the Church are called Canons) wherof the saide Scriptures were and are called Canonicall, whervpon himselfe also counteth them as confirmed by the holy Ghost.

Well, for these goodly causes he is bold to say, that the Church (of which Christ said generally, If he will not heare the Church,* 1.133 count him for an heathen and a publican) refuseth and reiecteth the Scriptures. And againe to D. Allen:* 1.134 As for the euident word of God, you shame not to boast of that to be your triall, which you dare as well eate a fagot as abide the iudgement of it, in any

lawfull conference or disputation. Your great belwethers and bi∣shops declared before the whole world in the conferēce of West∣minster, what they durst abide; when they came to handstrokes. It is a gay matter for such a chattering Pye, as you are, to make a fond florish a farre off in words, to please your patrons and ex∣hibitioners: it is an other thing to stand to the proofe in deede. And againe to him:* 1.135 Where as you wish that Bedes historie were made familiar vnto all English men, they were better to consider the word of God and the historie of the Actes of the Apostles: Which if you durst abide the triall thereof, you would exhort men to reade it, at least wise that vnderstand Latin. And if you were as zelous to set forth the glory of God, as you are to main∣teine your owne traditions, one or other of you, which haue so long found fault with our translations of the Scriptures, would haue taken paynes to translate them truely your selues, as well as to translate Bedes booke.

You say the disputation at Westminster Anno 1. Elizab. was before the whole world, as one that care not what you say, which you declare again in speaking of D. Allens exhibitioners, and his pleasing of them, a thing wherof you know nothing, nor (as I think) no body els, vnles some body may know that which is not. He is rather him selfe the Exhibitioner of our whole countrey (like an other Ioseph) and might be yours also, if you were happy. How much more iustly then may we say, that the Councell of Trent was holden before the whole world? And what conference will you admitte for lawfull on our part, when as you refused to come to that assembly at Trent, béeing yet so earnestly, so safely, and so honorably inuited thither, as the Safeconduites extant in the Actes of the Councell do witnesse, together with the very experience also of those fewe petites of Germanie that came thither? Or what conference shall on your parte be thought iniquous and vniust towardes vs, when you shame not to extoll that mocke conference of Westminster?

* 1.136Well, because you chalenge vs to a disputation, and are suffe∣red to set it forth in print, heare what I will say vnto you: The Councell of Trent counted you their subiectes as muche as you counte vs the subiectes of Englande, and the state there, is of all Catholike Princes graunted to be farre preeminent. Do

you therefore procure vs a safeconduite from the Courte in [ 1] suche fourme as the Councell gaue it to you, and certayne of vs will in the name of God come in, be the daunger to our liues otherwise neuer so great, and for the glory of God in the victorie of his trueth, we will ioyne with you in any con∣ference that shall be prescribed according to the common lawes of a Conference. Sée in my .xix. Demaunde, which is of Kinges, what I said to this effect before I knew of this your chalenge. Sée likewise of the same in my first Demaund, which is of olde Conference at Carthage betwixte the Catholikes and the Do∣natistes, about the true Churche which the Scriptures com∣mende vnto vs: Whereof I shall haue occasion to say more in the tenth Chapter.

If to reiect this offer, the Gouernours by your procurement, or [ 2] of their owne mindes will stand vpon their poyntes, wheras we séeing the cause is Gods cause, are content not to stand vpon our liues, to saue your soules, and to redéeme the vnmercifull vexa∣tion and intollerable persecution of our brethren ouer all that Realme, whom your Bishops and other Commissioners do op∣pose with heauy yrons and bouchers axes sorer then you can op∣pose vs or the learned of them with Scriptures: Do you syr, at the least wise for your owne credits sake, take your pen in hand, and ioyne with me vpon that same Collatio Carthaginensis, in such maner as I haue briefly required in my said first Demaund.

Or if you dare not do that neither for al your crakes, thirdly I [ 3] require you to send to vs some of your fellows or schollers, such as will behaue them selues quietly and modestly, other safecon∣duite they shall not néede: as diuers of your side haue already at sundry times, partely of their owne heades, partely at their priuate friendes motion, come hither, and founde all safe and sure for their persons, and not one of them but he was (thankes be to God) throughly satisfied by our conference, and namely by séeing and hearing our foresaid dayly reading and examination of the Scriptures. Which béeing by D. Allen our President his order vsed amongst vs, who can doubt but he exhorteth men to reade the Scriptures, them specially that vnderstande Latin, much more thē S. Bedes historie? And namely y^e Acts of the Apo∣stles, what booke do I his scholler more often vse in my Motiues

and Demaundes, then that? And touching a Catholike trāslation of the Scriptures, you shew your selfe to know litle, God wot∣teth, what is D. Allens desire and minde therein. But all men may assure them selues, that any thing lacketh therevnto rather then good will and feruent zeale, specially because we sée it tran∣slated already by Catholikes into al other languages almost, and because we know sundry cōmodities that might ensue thereof, & namely because we lament to see so many soules to dye in the most holsome waters, beeing turned into deadly bitternes by your Starre Absinthin,* 1.137 your blindnes withall being suche, that leauing both the authenticall Gréeke of the Septuaginta, which the Apostles and Primitiue Church did vse, and also the authen∣ticall Latin, which the Church hath vsed so many hundred yeres, in some part euen from the beginning almost: you haue serued our countrey with y^e olde Testament of the late obstinate Iewes vowelling, diuiding, and reading, it being of it selfe but one verse in the whole Psalter, and ech other particular booke, & onely con∣sonantes, and to be read according to the tradition of the faith∣full (which tradition we know by our authenticall translations) and not of the incredulous and perfidious.

No, no, whensoeuer we should make (if we were in case and place) a Catholike translation, and send the copies in, they should be in no lesse daunger of your searchers and fyres, then our other bookes haue bene, and are euery day more and more: but yet that daunger should not stay vs, if nothing els did: knowing that such a translation will confound you ten thousande times more then all the other bookes haue done.

Last of all, if none of my former requestes can finde place with you, at the least wise you shal haue here in the Chapter folowing an answere to all your Scriptures hither vnto alleaged in both your bookes, to chaw vpon for a while. And then tell your Rea∣der, when, as you haue here renounced all other euidences, so he shall sée that you are no lesse destitute of Scripture also: tell him then (I say) blaming D. Allen,* 1.138 and saying: And yet he wondreth that we are so blinde that we can not see the cleare light of truth. And againe in the ende of your booke,* 1.139 In Gods name let the Rea∣ders way indifferently, and as they see this poynt (of the dead) handled, so let them iudge of the rest. The trueth is vpholden by

euident testimonie of Scripture: the error by custome, practise, and iudgement of men. The truth seeketh vnderstanding of the Scriptures, of the spirite of God in the Scriptures: error, at the mouthes of mortall men. Now thē to these euident Scriptures, in the name of God, and to your diuine vnderstanding of them.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Ar. 44. First Au∣thors. As in my fourth demaund. old heresies demaunde xxxviij.
• * 1.2

  Supra pag. 10.
• * 1.3

  Pur. 416.
• * 1.4

  Pur. 426.
• * 1.5

  Ar. 44.
• * 1.6

  August. ad quoduu. in praef. & in epilogo.
• * 1.7

  Note, •• seeke th•• this con•• of Fulke••
• * 1.8

  Ar 4••
• * 1.9

  Pur. 3••
• * 1.10

  O vvor•• stimatio•• he hath Church.
• * 1.11

  Pur. 12
• * 1.12

  An her•• a man in Church 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Fulk, F•• a nobis, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Iohn. Infra.
• * 1.13

  Pur. 402.
• * 1.14

  Pur. 409.
• * 1.15

  Pur. 412.
• * 1.16

  Though i•• be S. Augustine him selfe, & though he hold the foundation here cap. v.
• * 1.17

  Pur. 391.
• * 1.18

  Pur. 4 Ar. 42
• * 1.19

  Tert. 〈…〉〈…〉 praesc.
• * 1.20

  Antiq…… Dem.
• * 1.21

  Ar. 3. Infra. Dem. 〈…〉〈…〉
• * 1.22

  Pur. 3•…•…
• * 1.23

  Names: dem. 7.8.
• * 1.24

  Ar. 65.
• * 1.25

  Traditiōs. Dem. 29. Pur. 362.
• * 1.26

  Pur. 387.
• * 1.27

  Ar. 48.
• * 1.28

  Au. d•• & op.
• * 1.29

  Au. E•• ad Ia•• cap. 6
• * 1.30

  1. Cor
• * 1.31

  Pur. 3••
• * 1.32

  Aug•• ver. •• Ser. 3
• * 1.33

  That al is not vvritten.
• * 1.34

  Ioan. 19. Luk. 24.
• * 1.35

  Pur. 264.
• * 1.36

  1. Thes. 2. 2. Thes. 2. 1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.37

  Supra •• par. 1. d•• Pur. 36
• * 1.38

  Pur. 40
• * 1.39

  Pur. 39.••
• * 1.40

  Pur. 39
• * 1.41

  Pur. 30 304.
• * 1.42

  Pur. 39 Chryso•• Ep. ad •• Hom. 3
• * 1.43

  Ar. 39.
• * 1.44

  Aug. •• fes. lib. cap. 13.
• * 1.45

  Pur. 317.
• * 1.46

  Supra pag. 12.
• * 1.47

  Iob. 1.
• a) 1.48

  For such as die vnreconci∣led.
• b) 1.49

  For Catho∣likes that be rich.
• * 1.50

  Authoritie Dem. 34. Diuine ser∣uice, Dem. 22. Pur. 264.
• * 1.51

  Supra. pa. 2 diui. 3.
• * 1.52

  Pur. 371.
• * 1.53

  Pur. 349.
• * 1.54

  Falsification by changing.
• * 1.55

  O videns.
• * 1.56

  Pur. 210.
• * 1.57

  Ar. 86.
• * 1.58

  a•• cause here∣tike•• make d••••bt of the Church, this heretike vvill that no Chri∣stian leane vnto it.
• * 1.59

  Ar. 58.
• * 1.60

  Anno. 1. Elizab.
• * 1.61

  Ar. 62.
• * 1.62

  Fu••e vvil not beleeue the A∣postles nor the Angels vvith∣out Scripture.
• * 1.63

  Pur. 24.4. 2. Cor. 4.
• * 1.64

  Pur. 449. Gal. 1.
• * 1.65

  Pur. 430. Councels. Dem. 27.
• * 1.66

  Pur. 194. See Apo∣stolike. Dem. 28.
• * 1.67

  Succession: Dem. 43. A••. 28.
• * 1.68

  Fulke vvhat a frankeling.
• * 1.69

  Fathers. Dem. 26.
• a 1.70

  Ar. 39. Pu. 30.177 435.370.371.
• b 1.71

  Pur. 186.247.304.331.357.364.382.
• * 1.72

  Fulkes tvvo Onelies.
• * 1.73

  Pur. 205.
• * 1.74

  Pur. 202.
• * 1.75

  Pur. 22.
• * 1.76

  Pur. 58.
• * 1.77

  Pur. 386.
• * 1.78

  Pur. 363.
• * 1.79

  As though vve opposed the do∣ctors to the A∣postles.
• * 1.80

  Pur. 384.
• * 1.81

  Mortall men.
• * 1.82

  Ar. 59.
• * 1.83

  Ar. 60.
• * 1.84

  Pur. ••87.
• * 1.85

  Pur. 262.
• * 1.86

  Pur. 30.
• * 1.87

  It is pride to follovv the fa¦thers and humi¦litie to cōdemn them.
• * 1.88

  Pur. 419.
• * 1.89

  Supra. pag. 9.
• * 1.90

  Pur. 436.
• * 1.91

  Pur. 412. Pur. 60.
• * 1.92

  Pur. 395.
• * 1.93

  Pur. 255.256.
• * 1.94

  Pur. 363,
• * 1.95

  Pur. 407.
• * 1.96

  Pur. 285.
• * 1.97

  The Doctors vvritings a dunghill.
• * 1.98

  1. Cor. 4.
• * 1.99

  Pur. 434.
• * 1.100

  Supra. cap. 6. par. 2.
• * 1.101

  Ar. 86.
• * 1.102

  A comfortable doctrine for the ignorant, for∣sooth▪
• * 1.103

  Pur. 9.
• * 1.104

  Ar. 62.
• * 1.105

  The Popes Se∣minarie for England.
• * 1.106

  Pur. 438.
• * 1.107

  Pur. 452.
• * 1.108

  Pur. 452.
• * 1.109

  Pur. 364.
• * 1.110

  Supra. pag. 19.
• * 1.111

  Pur. 452.
• * 1.112

  Pur. 189.
• * 1.113

  For example: your ovvne heresie.
• * 1.114

  against it, rather.
• * 1.115

  Pur. 176.
• * 1.116

  Pur. 185.
• * 1.117

  His great pro∣mises.
• * 1.118

  Pur. 187.
• * 1.119

  Pur. 30.
• * 1.120

  Pur. 12.
• * 1.121

  Ar. 3.
• * 1.122

  Ar. 59.
• * 1.123

  His triumph∣ing in lying.
• * 1.124

  Pur. 380.
• * 1.125

  Ar. 28.
• * 1.126

  Ar. 99.6.
• * 1.127

  Ar. 85.
• * 1.128

  Ar. 107.
• * 1.129

  Pur. 219.
• * 1.130

  Note vvhiche is this Popishe Church.
• * 1.131

  2. Pet. 3.
• * 1.132

  Canonicall.
• * 1.133

  Mat. 18.
• * 1.134

  Pur. 438.
• * 1.135

  Pur. 346.
• * 1.136

  A fourefolde offer.
• * 1.137

  Apoc. 8.
• * 1.138

  Pur. 364.
• * 1.139

  Pur. 458.