A reply to Fulke, In defense of M. D. Allens scroll of articles, and booke of purgatorie. By Richard Bristo Doctor of Diuinitie ... perused and allowed by me Th. Stapleton.

9. Conuersion of Heathen Nations.* 1.1

My nienth Demaund doth note, who are (after the Apostles) the Conuerters of all Nations from Paganisme, (whom the Scripture calleth, the witnesses of Christ to the extremes of the earth. Act. 1.) to wit, we, and not the Protestants. According to Tertullians most singular obseruation, speaking of Heretikes, and saying:

As touching the ministerie of the word,* 1.2 what should I speake? considering that this is their endeuour, non Ethnicos conuertendi, sed nostros euertendi: Not to conuert the Heathen, but to subuert our people. This glory they do more seeke after, Si stantibus ruinam, non si iacentibus eleuationem operentur, To work ruine to such as are standing, and not raysing to such as are lying

. And so Fulke may glory, I do not denie, as he doth also, where he saith:* 1.3 The Land of Bohemia was conuerted by Iohn Hus, and Hieromyn of Prage. Againe in another place: And at this day the most part of Europe, is conuerted from Idolatry, He∣resie, and Antichristianitie (such he counteth the Catholike faith) vnto the same true faith that we mainteine: as in England, Scot∣land, Ireland, Fraunce, Germanie, Denmark, Suetia, Bohemia, Po∣lonia, by publike authoritie: in Spaine and Italie, a great number vnder persecution and tyrannie. That is your glory in déede, that you haue subuerted many in many Christian nations. We can not so glory, nor you can not shew that we haue done the like in any Nation, although you say with a brasen face,* 1.4 It is certayne

that the Popish Church hath peruerted and corrupted al parts of the Latine or Westerne Church, with Idolatry and false religion. But that you haue conuerted any Nation from Paganisme, you do not, nor you can not boast. But the truth is, although you say that we haue not cōuerted the Nations to Christes faith,* 1.5 but per∣uerted all nations from the faith of Christ, that our Church, that is to say, the Cōmunion of S. Peters Sée Apostolike, or y^e church beginning visibly at Hierusalem, and visibly growing on to this day, is she that conuerteth al Pagane Nations to be Christians, not only at this present, so many nations of both the Indies, and in Afrike: item so many others that this last thousand yeres haue bene conuerted, thrée wherof you name, Liuonia, Prussia, Lith∣uania,* 1.6 with this lying censure, that we conuerted them by force of armes, rather then by preaching and teaching: but also all them that were conuerted either in the 500. yeres afore that, or also in the Apostles time it selfe. Against this cleare trueth what mist haue you to cast? Forsooth, not we, but certaine Heretikes & Schismatikes conuerted some nations to the profession of Chri∣stes name,* 1.7 though to false religion. Do you graunt that it was to false religion, & yet bring that for an instance? It is an euident argument that you had no instance in the nations that we cōfesse to haue bene conuerted to the true faith of Christ. Was not this scope inough for you, & reason inough for vs when we say, (as in my Demaund you may sée) that it was our Church, by which all Nations were conuerted or corrected to the true faith of Christ?

And yet also for your said instancies, where you quote your Authors, they shall be answered. In the meane time I quote to you Eus. li. 2. ca. 1. reporting the conuersion of Ethiopia to haue bene of the right stampe, according to Psal. 67. and Act. 8. which two places he there doth cite:* 1.8 because you to shew, that the true Church of Christ did not conuert all, do say, For in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the False Apostles, whiche taught circumcision & obseruation of the Law: in which heresie they continue vnto this day. Who should tell that better then the Ethiopians themselues? whom we sée to haue their house at Rome, and to be Catholikes. And your selfe do saye in another place,* 1.9 that their Liturgie doth sauour playnly the vsage of the Greke Church. Their Emperour did his obediēce to Paulus III,

and also an Ethiopian Abbot, which Abbot in his Epistle dedica∣torie before the rites of their Baptisme & Liturgie, doth expresly inueigh against them that did falsly report of them as not Ca∣tholikes and obedient subiects to the Sée Apostolike, much reioy∣sing therein, and desiering that they might be so taken. Howbeit I denie not, but there might be some corruption, though not of heresie peraduenture, but for lacke of frée conuersing (béeing in∣tercluded by the Turkes and Saracenes, and often oppressed by Tyrants and Infidels of their owne) with the Romane Church,

In qua semper ab ijs qui sunt vndi{que},* 1.10 conseruata est ea quae est ab Apostolis traditio, In which Church (saith S. Irenée, that is, by repayring to it) the faithfull that be all about, haue alwayes pre∣serued thē selues in the tradition that cōmeth from the Apostles.

And where you say for another instance,* 1.11 It is manifest by al Hi∣stories, that the Nations of the Alanes, Gothes, & Vandales, were first conuerted by the Arrians: in so saying you declare that you neuer read the Ecclesiasticall Histories, presuming notwithstan∣ding to write against these Articles which are in maner nothing els but certayne obseruations therof. Reade Socrates li. 2. ca. 32. (and not onely li. 4. ca. 27. and Sozomenus li. 6. ca. 37. but speci∣ally Theodoret li. 4. ca. 32. who, as a Catholike Bishop, of pur∣pose to take from the Arrians that vayne bragge of theirs, she∣weth, that the Gothes were first Catholikes, and not (as you say) first conuerted by the Arrians: but, onely by false informations and to much trusting of their Bishop Vlphilas, béeing another Balaam, ledde out of the way.

You talke also of the Nations that were cōuerted by the Dona∣tists & Nouatians.* 1.12 But we shall know your Histories & authors hereafter. Againe you say: And it is also manifest by Histories,* 1.13 that the Grecians (whō the Papists count no part of their church, but Schismatikes) conuerted the Moscouites first of all. Did the Grecians conuert them since their Schisme? O great Historian. The truth is, there was great emulation then in the Grecians a∣gainst the Latins, but not schisme nor heresie as yet, nor long af∣ter, and therefore of our Church they were then: Howbeit it is not the true faith, nor our religion (as you say truely) which the Moscouites haue, but such as they them selues did list to receiue, with many qualifications and modifications of their owne.

such was the fruite of the Grecians emulation, and such is the necessitie that S. Peter cast the nette.

But if Histories fayle you, yet one demonstration ex per se notis you haue, to proue, that not we, but you conuerted all true Christian Nations.* 1.14 And what is that? If the Papist can proue, that we hold not the same faith and trueth, vnto which the A∣postles conuerted the Nations, we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. The Papist proueth (to omitte a 1000. others of his proufes) that you be Heretikes (and therefore hold not the same faith &c.) by the testimonie of that which your selfe confesse to be the true Church of Christ: here cap. 2. and cap. 3. Againe: We are members (witnesse your Separation, here Dem. 3.* 1.15) of that Church, which conuerted all Landes in the earth that are conuerted to the true Religion of Christ: and we affirme, that the Apostles taught none other faith in steed of true Christi∣anitie, but that which we hold, as we are readie to proue by the word of God. Witnesse here cap. 8. Where all your absurd De∣prauations of Gods word are answered, and not that onely, but also shewed by the expresse word of God among other thinges, that the Sacrament of Confirmation went euery whither toge∣ther with the Apostles Gospell, as the chiefest point of Christia∣nitie,* 1.16 pag. 145. But no maruaile of your audacitie, to say, we are readie to proue it, considering that you are bold to conclude of this, saying thus: I haue shewed, that our church, holding the true Doctrine of the Apostles, is that which conuerted all Nations to true Religion. Then belike all those Nations were (and are) of your Religion, and you will be content to be tryed by them, as by Afrike (for example) whose Religion we know by Tertullian S. Cyprian, S. Optatus, S. Augustine, &c. Or if you haue better Monumentes of any other Nations Religion, name it, and let vs try it betwene vs. But whosoeuer séeth here cap. 3. how you are faine to charge the true Church, the Primatiue Church, with erring, may easily coniecture, what you dare doe.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Motiue 25. Article. 1.
• * 1.2

  Tertul. de Praesc.
• * 1.3

  Ar. 33. Ar. 95.
• * 1.4

  Ar. 3.
• * 1.5

  Pur. 460.
• * 1.6

  Ar. 3.85.
• * 1.7

  Ar. 2.3.
• * 1.8

  Ar. 2.3.
• * 1.9

  Pur. 357.
• * 1.10

  Ire. li. 3. ca. 3
• * 1.11

  Ar. 2.3. Pur. 337.
• * 1.12

  Pur. 337.
• * 1.13

  Ar. 3.
• * 1.14

  Ar. 2.
• * 1.15

  Ar. 2.3.
• * 1.16

  Ar. 3.