CHAP. XXXIIII.

1 THe conclusion of this Chapter was, that the infallible rule, which we ought obediently to follow in all points of faith, is the doctrine, and teaching faith, and beleefe of the true Church: his meaning wherein, he saies, I would not, or did not rightly vnderstand. Let vs therefore see, how I vnder∣stood it. My answer was, that we would freely grant this conclusion, if the meaning were no more, but that the doctrine and faith of the vniuersall Church, is the rule of faith, but there is a higher matter meant. First that the Churches word, and autho∣rity, without grounding the same on the Scripture, is the rule. Next that the Church of Rome, is this vniuersall Church. Third∣ly that all the authority, and efficacy of the Church, is in the Pope Page  329 alone. And this to be the meaning, I shewed in the 16. Digres∣sion, whereto the Repiar hath wisely holden his tongue. For it is the truth I said, though he deny it, for the odiousnesse, and abhomination thereof. For the question being, What is the rule, whereby all men, at all times, may be resolued in matters of faith; he answers that the Church is it: aske him a∣gaine, what and which Church; and he will answer, The Ro∣mane Church in all ages past, present, and to come. For a I shewed out of the Rhemists, Bristo, Posseuin, and Baron. that they admit no Catholicke Church, but the Romane onely: then aske him finally, how a man may know, which is the doctrine, and teaching, faith, and beleefe of the Church, and he will say againe (as I shewed fully) that WHAT THE POPE IVDICIALLY DETERMINES, AND PROPOVNDS TO THE CHVRCH, is it. Did I therefore mistake, when he said, that by the Church, he meant onely the Pope: or was not himselfe rather vnable to defend the matter; and therefore would auoid the very point of the question? Did I not alleadge 9. Papists, that all say, the whole power, and faculty of the Church, is in the Pope? Are not Gregory of Valenzaes b words plaine? In this question, by the Church, we meant the Romane Bishops. In whom resides the full authoritie of the Church, when heple ases to determine matters of faith, whether he do it with a Councell, er without.c I say therefore againe, that the Repliars Conclusion hath no other meaning then this: The infallible rule, which we ought obediently to follow, is the do∣ctrine, and faith of THE POPE ALONE. So himselfe writ in his d Treatise: All Catholicke men must necessarily submit their iudgements, and opinions, either in expounding the Scripture, or otherwise, to the censure of the Apostolicke seate: and God hath bound his Church, to heare the chiefe Pastors in all things. And all the places of Scripture, that are vsed for the authoritie of the Church, they applie, and expound of the Pope: To thee I will giue the keyes; on this rock I will build, Feede my sheepe, &c. Let vs see therefore, in his next Reply, how he will releeue himselfe. That is meant by the Church, whereto the chiefe promises made to the Church, belong: wherein the whole Page  330 power of the Church resides; whereby the Church it selfe is directed; where the Church determinations begin: But the Pope is he, whereto the chiefe, &c. Ergo the Pope is meant by the Church.

2 Neuerthelesse, not answering these things, when I obiected them, he notes fiue things for the vnderstanding of his conclusion. Which I answer in order. To the first I grant our aduersaries distinguish the name of the Church, into di∣uers senses, (by that distinguishing to gull the world) but, in this question, when they say the teaching of the Church is the Rule; they alway meane it of the Pope. And the Repliar speakes vntruely, that in his conclusion, be meanes not the Pope, but a company of men. For either the company must first be taught by the Pope: or else the Pope must be the mouth of that company. Besides e in his Introduction, whi∣ther he referres himselfe, hauing said, that the name Church may be taken 4 waies: either for the whole company of Christian professors, consisting of sheepe, and Pastors; or for the more princi∣pall part, to wit, the whole company of Pastors, either gathered to∣gether in a Councell, or dispersed through the world: or for Christs Vicar, the Pope, as he hath most ample authority, either alone, or with a Councell, to propound the doctrine of faith: or for euery par∣ticular Pastor, as he is authorized vnder the Pope, to feede the flocke committed to him: he concludes, that when he saies, Church proposition is necessary, it is not needfull for him to distin∣guish, which of these waies, he takes it, because we the Protestants, deny any such infallible authority to be in the Church at all, in which sense soeuer he take it: whereby it is plaine, that he was ashamed to name in which sense, he takes the Church. For albeit we deny that which he cals the infallible authoritie of his Church (all supreme, and vnerring authoritie, being in the Scripture alone) yet the constant, and certaine doctrine of the Church taken in the two first senses, we allow to be the rule of faith, because it is onely the contents of the Scripture, as f I answered to his conclusion: but that he means the Church in the third sense alone appeares by this also, that it is a prin∣ciple among the Iesuits, that the Church, in the first, second, Page  331 and fourth sense may erre, and if at any time, it do not, it is through the guiding of the Pope, who is the Church in the third sense. Gregory of Valenza g saies: we must not distin∣guish betweene the Romane Church, and the Romane Bishop so, as if the iudgement of the Roman Church, were infallible, but not the iudgement of the Romane Bishop, but rather these two are one, and the same. For THEREFORE THE APOSTOLICKE, OR ROMANE CHVRCH IS SAID TO BE INFALLIBLE, BECAVSE HE IS OVER IT, WHO BY HIMSELFE, HATH INFALLIBLE AVTHORITY. Canus saies, hwhen we come to the Apostolicke Sea, to enquire the oracles of faith, we do not enquire of all the faithfull in the Romane Church, nor yet of the same Church assembled in a Councell, (see here the Church reiected, in the first, second, and fourth senses) but the Popes iudgement, and sentence is it we exspect. This is that I said, that by the Church they meane, THE POPE: then he addes a rea∣son (which according to their former principles conuinces this) that the firmenesse, and certainety of truth must be auouched in Peter, and his successors, and then after in the Church, whose head, and foundation Peter is—and therefore the more do I re∣prehend those, which (as the Repliar here) by distinguishing the Apostolicke seate from the Pope, thinke to ende the controuer∣sie. My aduersarie therefore maintaining the doctrine of the Church to be the rule of faith; * meanes nothing by the Church but THE POPE HIMSELFE: and they that yeeld themselues to be led by the Romane Church, must depend solely vpon his will and word.

3 To the second▪ this diuine doctrine of the Church, which the Repliar saies is the rule of our faith, is, by himselfe ex∣pounded to include, not onely the written Scripture, but vn∣written traditions also, and such decrees, and interpretations, both of Scripture, and tradition, as the Pope shall reueale, and propound: hence it followes, that any Friars dreame, may be thrust vpon vs, as an article of faith necessary to sal∣uation: because these traditions and interpretations, and this authoritie of the Pope, containe many such dreames; that is to say, the Pope, and his Church, vnder pretence, that they are Page  332diuine traditions, and all power to propose matters of faith, belongs to him, may, and doth require vs to beleeue lyes, and errors: and albeit the Iesuite affirme these traditions, and interpretations of his Church to be reuealed by God, to the Apostles, and their successors, the Doctors, and Pastors of the Church, as part of that diuine, and Church doctrine, which he would haue receaued,owith the same obedience, and affection, wherewith we receaue the Scripture: yet this is false. For the whole obiect of our faith is contained in the Scripture a∣lone, as I shewed in the third Digression; and because he de∣nies, that any such dreames can be contained in the doctrine of his Church, thus I reason: For, whatsoeuer the Pope, shall definitiuely propound to be beleeued, that is the doctrine of the Church: But he may definitiuely propound the very dreames of a Friar; this I proue. The bookes of i Hermes, and k Clemens Constitutions, are Apochryphall, counterfet, and vnsound writings: but D. Stapleton l saies, he may put these bookes into the Canon of the Bible, and so binde men to beleeue them by di∣uine faith: therefore he may define, and make to be matter of faith, that which is vnsound, and no better, then a dreame. Againe Canus, and Caietan m affirme the opinion of the vir∣gine Maries conception without sinne, to be godly, and pro∣bable in shew; but false, and vncertaine indeede. Yet n the Iesu∣its say, the Pope may define it, when he will. Thirdly o they hold the authority of the Church in defining, to be in the Pope, who may determine the things of faith, whether he vse care, and diligence therin, or not: but he that defines without any care taking, or diligēce vsed, may chance, specially if he be a Friar, p as many Popes are, to thrust his Friars dreames vpon the Church. Fourthly, the Canon law q sayes: He may make some∣thing of nothing, and make that a sentence, which is none. Lastly r the Iesuites hold, that a supernaturall truth may be so implicite∣ly contained in tradition, or Scripture, that*the common consent of the Church increasing, whereby oftentimes the Holy Ghost ex∣pounds Page  333 traditions, and Scriptures, the Church may at last, bring in her definition, which shall haue the force of a reuelation. The two doores of sleepe, s mentioned so much in the Poets, let not in more dreames, then this doctrine doth lyes, & heresies into the world; for whensoeuer the Church of Rome, will bring in a new doctrine, the implicite traditions, and the increase of the Churches consent, may be pretended.

4 * To the third: he notes no more. But what he said in his treatise, and I granted in such sense, as I layed downe in my answer. And this noting it againe is needles, and imper∣tinent to the matter in hand: which is not touching the qua∣lity, but the quiddity of the rule.

5 * To the fourth: we know well enough, that the Church, and the doctrine go together: but it is false, that the Church, as deliuering doctrine, is the rule. For the doctrine is the rule, and the Church, that which teaches both vs, and it selfe, according to it, as the Iudge, expounding, and execu∣ting the law, is not the rule together with the law, but the law is the rule it selfe, and the iudge is the kings officer to ap∣ply it, but hauing no authority ouer, or beside it. And yet allowing the contrary, and all that the Repliar sayes, still in his conceite the Pope with his definitions, shall be this Church, and this doctrine, which he thus conioynes to be the rule.

6 To the fift to proue the doctrine of the Church to be the rule of saith, in such sort, as the Repliar hath said, * it is not sufficiēt to shew that at least once, or in some one age, there hath bene a company of men, called the Church, in one sense, or other, ordained by God, and furnisht with condi∣tions, to teach men the faith: for the Repliar hath said, that the doctrine of the Church is the rule of faith, in such sort, as it includes, not onely the written Scriptures, but vnwritten traditions, and the interpretation of them both by Church au∣thority. Where two things are affirmed, first, that vnwritten traditions, are part of the doctrine, that is the rule. Second∣ly, that our faith is built t on the authority of the Church. Neither of these is proued by shewing that which is here Page  334 mentioned. For though there be a Church, in any sense that a true Church can be meant, ordained to teach vs, yet it fol∣lowes not, that it hath any such authority, or any authori∣ty at all to propound vnwritten traditions: and there may be a Church, and yet the iudgement thereof not be the authori∣ty, whereon our faith is grounded; and the same Church may be ordained to teach vs, & yet not allowed to teach these vnwritten verities. For God hath propounded all doctrine of faith in the Scriptures, and appointed his Church to re∣ueale, and expound it to his people: the which doctrine, thus expounded, inlightens the mind, begets faith, and is the rule of all mens iudgement, through the worke of the Holy Ghost, that confirmes it in the mind. Granting therefore, that which the Repliar so much desires, that all his meaning is, that once, or in one age, there was a company of men, who in one sense, or other, may be called the Church, whom God hath ap∣pointed, and furnished, to teach all men the things of faith: yet it helps not his conclusion, nor makes it true, in that sense wherein he meanes it.