The orthodox faith and vvay to the Church explaned and iustified in answer to a popish treatise, entituled, White died blacke; wherein T.W. p. in his triple accusation of D. White for impostures, vntruths, and absurd illations, is proued a trifler: and the present controuersies betweene vs and the Romanists are more fully deliuered and cleared. By Francis White Bachelour in Diuinitie, and elder brother of Doctor Iohn White.

Paragra. 5. Gregorie Valence, touching the markes of the Church.

T. W. In proofe of the Protestants marks of the church, to wit, truth of doctrine, and administration of Sacraments, Maister White alledgeth Valentia, sayingf; Among whom∣soeuer the truth of doctrine and Sacraments are holden, thereby it is knowne the Church is there. For the true dis∣playing of this base iugling Minister, &c. 1. That which Gregorie Valence saith of the persons of which the Church consisteth, Maister White applieth to the markes by which it is knowne: secondly, he translateth, Ex ijs constare veram ecclesiam, of those persons the Church consisteth, thereby it is knowne the Church is there.

Answ. This place is alledged onelyg to prooue, that Gregorie Valence is of opinion, that where the preach∣ing of the word, and Sacraments are found, there the Church is knowne to be, and not (as you ouer-reach) to proue they are the proper notes to discerne the Church: for he thus speaketh; I am sure all Papists will grant, that succession, vniuersalitie, &c. are no markes at all, but when they concurre with true Faith: whereas they say expresly, that

among whomsoeuer the truth of Doctrine and Sacraments are holden, thereby it is knowne the Church is there.

Now Gregorie Valence in tearmes affirmeth thus much, sayingh; We confesse, that if lawfull succession of Pa∣stors and teachers should hold without veritie of doctrine, that then the Church could not sufficiently be proued thereby. And in the words produced by my Brother; The true Church cannot be without veritie of doctrine, and with whom these are altogether sound, of those persons the Church Con∣sisteth.

From whence ariseth this Argument against the Po∣pish markes: For as much as that onely is the true church, with whom veritie of doctrine and right administration of the Sacraments is found, and with whomsoeuer these are sound, of those the Church consisteth: no man can be assured of any societie, that the same is the true Church, vntill he know whether they haue true doctrin, and right administration of Sacraments. And thus, the verie Touchstone of the Church, and all other notes thereof, is true doctrine, which is the thing the Prote∣stants say.

And as for the translation about which you are so loud, there dependeth nothing vpon it, and therefore it was sufficient to deliuer the sence of the Iesuites speech. And your hatefull language, crying, base iugling Mini∣ster, &c. beseemeth your conscience and faith, of whom is verified that of our Sauiour, Math. 12.34. O genera∣tion of Vipers, how can you being euill speake good things? &c.

Notes

• f

  Greg. Val. to. 3 d. 1. q. 1. p. 7. §. 18
• g

  Way to the Ch. §. 32 n. 3. pa. 137.
• h

  Greg Val. to. 3 d. 1. q. 1. p 5 n. 25 Fatemur, si suc∣cessio legitima pastorum & doctorum abs{que} veritate doctri∣nae staret, non ex illa satis posse veram ecclesiā demonstrari.