You know very well that the Priestes haue ac∣customed to breake their fast, and to eate the soppe in the wyne in the middest of their Masse. Wherefore it were good reason that we did pause a lyttle in the middes of our Masse, for to breathe our selues. For we haue sayd and sunge inough for the dead for to drinke once: And yet wée are more beneficiall vnto them then the Priestes. For wée haue not dronken vppon their costes and expences.

Therefore you are so much the soberer. For me thinkes that you haue not druncke very much according to that that you say you were a thirst.

I toke that which sufficed me and no more, and was content. For it doth to me more good, then all that which the Priestes and Moonkes haue eaten and dronken in the name of the dead; doth profite the dead. It is already longe since that I would haue brought in for you that, but I doe alwayes wayte when that Eusebius would beginne. But I know very well that the dinner hath a lyttle abated his choler, and that the aduice and counsayle of Seneca is good, who * counsayleth those that are subiecte to ire & choler not to fast nor to take in hande any wayghty matter, if they do finde * themselues by experience to be more enclyned to wrath be∣fore they haue eaten then after, bicause that hunger increa∣seth it the more.

Therefore doe you breake your fast so wil∣lyngly in the morning, and are so much afraide to fast. You must not impute my choller vnto fasting, but to your im∣portunate and wicked tongue: For he must haue great pati∣ence which would not be moued to wrathe through your words.

I would gladly know thy reasons wher∣fore. Admitte that all that which this holy father hath preached this day be true, and all that which he at other times hath made vs to beléeue of Purgatory: First I de∣maund of thée, whether the Priests & Moonkes can delyuer the soules which are kept in that fire, through their Pray∣ers, Suffrages, good déedes, Uigiles, Masses and Pardons?

Who will say the contrary but the Hereticks?

If it be so, wherefore are they so cruell that they doe not delyuer them incontinent from the fire, sith that they haue the power to doe it? Doe they delyte to see them frye, roste, and burne with a lyttle fire, as they doo * those whome they condempne for Heretickes, for to make them suffer more greater torment? If you sée an house on fire, and that ther were a lyttle childe, or a poore man with in the house, crying for helpe and succour, would you not runne by and by and fetch them out, if you might possible?

Although it were but a Deg, yet one should haue pyttie to heare him cry and howle.

That same is most true. Wherefore you * may iudge Eusebius, what people those are, whome you haue in such estimacion, & accomptest for the holy Church. They doe sing in their Uigills, in the name of the soules: Haue mercy vppon mee, haue mercy vppon mée, you at the least that are my friends. And in their Masse and in theire Lugentibus in Purgatorio: They doe cry vnto the Uirgin Mary that she haue pittie & compassion of these poore soules which doe lament themselues in Purgatorye, and which are rosted with a very great fire and tormentes without remedy. Wherefore doe not they themselues haue com∣passion on them and giue them helpe.

What Page  63 doe they then? Doe you not sée how by those very words, they doe pray vnto the Uirgin Mary for them, and howe they shew that they are their aduocaters and intercessors towards hir.

But doe they that for the compassion that they haue of them?

They declare it suffici∣ently inough. For if one giue them no money, they will lette them rost and burne perpetually, although they haue power to delyuer them, as they brag and boast themselues they can.

Thereoff I am much abashed, * and yet more, bicause it is written and ordayned in theire rules of their diuine office, that if it chaunce that the yeres minde of those that be dead fall vppon a Sunday, or vpon any solempne feast, it ought not to be delayed nor put off vntill the next day, as it is vsed in the office and feasts of Saints, if they fall vppon such dayes: But must rather aduaunce the office and prayers for the dead in the dayes before, for to comfort them the better, and to preuent and mittigate the paynes that they to suffer in Purgatory. Of which they do giue such reasons, saying: that the dead & the * soules of y^e dead haue neede of our ayde, but not y^e Saints. Wherefore the Saints which be in Paradise haue more greater leasure to tarry, then the poore soules that are hol∣den in the fire of Purgatory. Whervnto agréeth very well the question which Maioris made: To witte, what Masse is most profitable for the dead, eyther that which is sayde quickely and hastely, as the custome is in Fraunce to singe them: or els that which is sayd leasurely, and in which they bestowe a greate time, as they doe in Scotlande and in Spayne.

What is the solution of the question?

That the same that is soonest dispatched is the best: For the soules doe not feele the comfort that they oughte to receiue of the Masses which are sunge in theire name, vntill such time as the Masse is done.

And therefore they say as I thinke. Ite Mis∣sa est. Go your way the Masse is done, and doe beléeue that Page  [unnumbered] then the soules haue leaue for to depart out of purgatory. But by that accompt the Masses of Hunters should be the * best. And the poore should haue more greater aduauntage then the rich. For they doe dispatch their Masses quickely with a lyttle Requiem, yet the Priestes doe eate the one halfe for the great hast that they haue. It séemeth playne∣lye * that they woulde sende them into Paradise in poste. But the riche they doe carrye vppen Horselytters or Wagons with great Requiems, which continueth euerye one of them more then tenne myles, and are more then tenne ells long. But I thinck that they haue regarde vnto that, that the most part of those arrant théeues were gou∣tie, and they are yet afraide to doe them hurte and to trou∣ble their goutes.

I had rather to haue the goute and to be car∣ryed into Paradise vppon the most trotting horse that can be founde, then to burne in that so terrible a fire. But I maruayle, if it be so, wherefore it is forbidden that the Priestes shall say but one Masse in a day, sith that they are * so profitable for the dead. Me thinketh that the Priestes should neuer cease singing of Masses at all times and that they ought to forsake their meate and foode to doe that. For if they were in a fire, they woulde gladly that one should leaue all things for to helpe thē out. Furthermore, howe much the more a thinge is the betre•, so much the more the frequentacion of the same ought to be the better.

I am also estonyed that the Papists doe not all the good déedes that they determine to doe for the deade all in one day without tarying for the yeremindes, and causing the poore soules to languish so long in that fire, & to suffer them so long time to roste: and that those that ordayne Masses in their Testaments, doe not cause them to bée dis∣patched in an houre, without lymiting so long time.

Also Maioris did very well say, that the same * should be the better, although that afterwards, he added that a Masse which is said more treatably, doth recompence through the deuosion of him which sayeth it, the quicke∣nesse Page  64 and breuitie of that which is sayde in hast.

I beléeue very well that they had rather haue all their money together that they looke for, then to cause them to languish in tarying for it, as the poore soules, fea∣ring least any thing should escape them. Therefore they say, that the candle that goeth before, is better then that * which commeth after.

I assure thée that I had an Aunt, whom they had put that into hir heade that the * must be buryed before she be deade.

How could she doe that?

Shée hath done during hir lyfe all hir good déedes, as she would haue that one should doe for hir after hir death, carryinge candells, and sprinklyng holy water vppon the graue in which she would be buryed, and causinge the Priestes to sing, as they should haue done if she had bene dead. But the same happened well for them. For afterwards shee was conuerted to your law, and the most part of all hir pa∣rents and kinsfolke. Wherefore the Priestes should haue lost all that.

And therefore it is not without cause y^t they make such hast of offerings, but without the same they make no hast.

It should séeme to those y^t heare thē read vpon their bookes, y^e they haue great pittie & compassion of those captiue soules, sith that they had rather delay y^e honor y^t they would do vnto y^e saints, & their office, then y^e same of the dead, & the solace & comforte that they would giue vnto them. But y^e practise of their doctrine and experience declareth vnto vs the contrary. For hée that will not giue them readye money in theire handes without all question, those poore soules should neuer haue any helpe of them, or at the least it shalbe but lyttle, and they shall tarry their leasure. And so by that meanes the poore shalbe alwayes miserable, and cannot enter into Pa∣radise for want of money, if there be such auarice in Para∣dise as is among them.

Some men saye they haue hearde their la∣mentations, and that you doe wronge vnto them, and that * they are not so pittilesse as you make them. Page  [unnumbered] For in singing for the dead, they lament so piteously, that men would say that they did wéepe and mourne, as if they had buryed their father and mother. But it is easie to bée séene, that they are not so sorrowfull as they séeme they are: But that those are the teares of the Crocodile, who * weepeth when he would eate and deuoure men. Where∣fore the more I beholde them, so much the truer do I finde the aunswere of him, of whome one asked what kinde of people doe lyue now a dayes most ioyfully and fréely vppon * the earth? and who haue the greatest franchises and priui∣ledges?

What aunswered he?

That they were the Priests and the Phist∣cians. For the Priestes are alwayes ioyfull and merry as you heare them sing at the burialls, when all the other do wéepe and lament. The Phisicians also haue great lyber∣ties * and franchises. For it is lawfull for them to kill men, not onely without receiuing punishment for it, but which is more, they haue and receiue money for their labour?

The hangmen are asmuch priuiledged.

You say true, I am abashed that Plinie hath not ioyned them together, when he did speake of the priuiledge of the Phisicians. But it seemeth vnto me, that they ought yet to haue wages of the Priests. For they doe not neglect and fore slow their businesse, but doe bring goodly hydes into * their tanne fatte.

Yea the barbarous and ignorant Emperi∣ques and Arabians, which ought to agrée with them, and the Theologians Sophistes. But they cannot gette much with the cunning Phisicians and which are of a good con∣science.

And therefore me thinkes that those cannot well agrée with the Priestes, For the Priestes de∣sire none other thing but death: And the good Phisicians * doe not trauayle but to driue death away, & to giue health, and to kéepe and mayntayne the lyfe of men.

There is nothing truer then that thou sayst. For I my selfe haue hearde them how they doe reioyce of their poore parishieners, and say the one to the other, in goyng Page  65 to the tauerne: Let vs go drincke vpon the first skinne that will come.

What meane they by that? *

I do vnderstand their prouerbe. But I am not much abashed, although you do not vnderstād it, for it is not in the Chiliades of Erasmus. They compare the poore people to the beastes, of whom they are the boutchers and flears, as they themselues confesse by their prouerbe. And neuer∣thelesse * Eusebius is angry when we do name them by the names that they themselues haue giuen them.

For what other thing doth their prouerbe signifie, but as the boutchers and flears haue the profite and gaine of the skinne and hyde of the beastes whom they flea: Euen so also haue they the profite of the dead bodyes of which they flea. I haue heard them my selfe, howe they reioyce, when they heare that there is any rich man sicke and in daun∣ger of death, and howe they saye let vs make good chéere: For we shall haue by and by héere a good skinne for shoes and for the tanne fatte. There is neither Tanner nor Cord∣waytter * so wealthy as those are. For all the other knowe not to make their profit but of y^e skinnes & hides of beasts: But these héere do occupy the skinnes of men. And although that they be vnprofitable for any woorke, neuerthelesse they doe make of them more gaine, then of any other, insomuche that al the gaine that: y^e Tanners do with their marroquino and vntanned hides, and the Cordwamers with their shoes, is nothing in comparison of that whiche these doe get with their trade. *

I assure thée that I doe know a man at Coup∣pet which is besides Geneun, who hath made this reproche vnto the Priests of the same place, and said vnto them. Ye haue dronken vpon my skin, but you shal pay y^• shot if ye wil for mo: For I will not disburse any penny or farthing.

Wherfore said he that?

Bicause that * he was sicke of long time, & during his sicknesse the Priests hoping that he would haue dyed in short time, went to y^e Ta∣uerne to drinck vpon his skinne: But he deceiued them, & did not to them y^e pleasure they looked for: For he died not, but is Page  [unnumbered] yet aliue to this day.

The dead hath then de∣ceiued & mocked them as wel as the olde men who do spend all their goods vnder hope that they shall dye in short time, & afterwards, as men say, were constrained to go beg at the gates & doores, desiring to giue some almose vnto those poore people whom death hath begiled. These Priests haue as * great occasion to complaine of him, as y^e Curate had, who (as men saye) complained of his Parishoners, sayinge: what would you haue me do my Parishioners? you will neither offer nor yet dye. Whereof do ye thincke that I can lyue? haue you determined y^e I should dye with hunger? doe you not thincke Eusebius, y^e one may say the same of them that Seneca hath written of Aruncius and Aterius, and of other * like, who do make it an occupaciō & science to purchase after heritages & to watch after testaments, saying that they haue the same desire which the Marrons had, & those who make it an occupacion to bury the dead bodies, & to furnish & pre∣pare that which is necessary for the burials & funerals. For the greater that the number of the dead bodies are, so much is the game the greater both of the one and the other. And therefore saith he: Those y^e do make it an occupatiō to bury the dead know not of whom they ought to desire death: But these hunters & watchers after testaments & heritages, doe desire y^t their friēds & kinsmen should die. If the Priests of y^e Panims had bene like vnto our Priests, I doubt not but y^t they would haue ioyned vnto those héere. For they desire as much the death of men, and more then those, sith that they make & do the occupation both of the one & the other. Wher∣fore when I heare them sing their songs so pitiously and la∣mentable, about the dead, & their graues, me thincks that I * sée children cry, as the prouerbe saith, at the burying of their stepmother. And y^t they are like vnto the little children, who do wéepe & laugh all with one winde, & by and by are appea∣sed, so y^e when one gyueth them a péece of bread, or an apple, and that which they aske for: Euen so we must appease those & giue thē money to comfort them. Afterwards as soone as they haue receiued it, behold them mapings & lamentations Page  66 are ended, their sorrow is tourned into ioy, & Requiem into Gaudeanius.

This that you speake séemeth to be sowre & sharp vnto Eusebius: But I am certeine that if he did read a little y^e which S. Cyprian hath written a∣gainst * the auarice & gréedinesse of the Priests & Prelates, & of their rapine & theft towards the dead, in his booke against Demetrian, he shal finde the thing a little more swéeter and pleasant.

I do thincke y^e they determine none other thing but to abolish all y^e institutiō of the true Church of Iesus Christ, for to reduce & bring it to Iewishnesse and Panimry. The auncient Panims haue accustomed to hire for ready money some minstrel or many minstrels after the estate of him that dyeth, who shall singe with their instru∣ments many lamentable and pitifull songs, of the calami∣ties & miseries of the olde time, for to comfort the parents & friends of the dead, hearing of other mens misfortunes, and letting them to vnderstand thereby y^t they were not alone. For as men do commonly say: The consolation & comfort * of the miserable is to haue compaignions. They do it also, to the end that thorow the harmony of y^e instruments they should be drawen away & féele lesse dolour and griefe. The minstrels then do accompany the pompe and funerall pro∣cession, and play their notes before the dead body, sounding their Trumpets, Flutes & Drumme for to moue the hea∣rers * to sorrowe and lamentation. Sometime they do sing of the praise of the dead, & according to the note that y^e min∣strel doth sound, & the affections that he giueth to his songs & instruments, the parents & friends of the dead do strike their breasts and begin to wéepe & lament, and not content with * that, but do hire some to lament & wéepe, for to helpe them to sorrowe and wéepe and to singe the complaintes, and * chieflye women, bycause that they are by nature more pi∣tifull and myleh harted to wéepe, as the Biernoys besides Gascoyne and in Alexandria doe yet vse vnto this daye, and doe so their office, that one woulde saye that the mat∣ter toucheth them. They haue also accustomed in many pla∣ces to shaue their beard in token of sorrow and mourning.

Whereto serueth all that for the dead? *

Whereto serueth for thē now all y^e that y^e Priests doe? What greater honour can we doe vnto them, then to bury them honestly in the earth, followinge the sentence of God, which hath sayd: Earth thou art and into earth thou shalt retourne againe.

The true seruaunts of God, Patriarkes, Prophets, and Apostles, haue not much vsed any other Ceremonies, and we know not to followe a better rule and example then theirs, and the admonition which the Apostle doth giue vnto vs. He forbiddeth vs ex∣presly y^e we should not sorrow for those y^e are fallen a sléepe, as the Panims and Gentiles doe who haue no hope. The holy Apostle would not bringe vs to such barberousnesse as hath bene sometime vsed among the Panims, who did eate the dead bodies, or els did giue them to be deuoured & torne in péeces with dogs, birdes & fishes, without burying them: As many authours as well Panims as Christians do wit∣nesse it of the Scithians, Indians, Bactrianians, Hircanians, Pontickes, & other such like barberous people.

I thincke the Fryer Geneure who is so much praised in the booke of the conformities of saint Fraunces, came from some of those Nations. For among all the other meruailous ver∣tues which are reported of him, this is one, that he caused y^e Diuels to flée away seuen miles without euer retourning againe. It is writtē in the same booke, that he sayd: I would to God that when I shall dye ther do procéed and come out frō my body such a stincke, y^e none dare to come néere it, & fi∣nally that men would cast me out without burying of me, & that I might dye all alone, abhominably & that they would suffer mée to be deuoured of the dogs.

Some haue accused the Lutherians for that they make none accompt of the dead bodies, bicause they condemne the superstitions of the Papistes: But I doe not thincke that euer any of them woulde speake so vnho∣nestly, neither of his owne body, nor yet of any others. Yet * Diogenes had more honesty, how dogish soeuer y^e hée was. For although y^e he did not much take care for hys burying, Page  67 yet he cōmaunded not that one should giue his body to the dogs. It is true y^e he did say, that hée had no great care how he should be buried: For those that shall haue the house will not suffer him to rot within it. And if they do cast it out, at the least let them cast a staffe after it for to defende and kéepe it from the dogges. I knowe not in what Theology this Fryer Geneure hath learned that honestie. For the Apostle speaketh not after that sort. Also I would not that we should bée so superstitious in the burying as were the Grecians, Romaines, and other like people, who estéemed * themselues more humaine and honest, and that wée shoulde so lament and sorrowe for the death of our parentes and friendes; as they dyd: as though we had no more hope and trust of the resurrection then they, and as though wée dyd thincke them altogether dead and lost. And although that there was more greater moderation in this among the Iew∣ish people, then among all the other, and that they dyd kéepe an ••der more agréeing to nature, yet neuerthelesse the A∣postle would that we should be bolde and constaunt, foras∣much as wée haue more certeine and sure witnesse of the resurrection of the dead, and more greater and excellenter reuelation of the Gospell, then this auncient people had: at the leastwise that we doe not worse then they, but that we may witnesse through our constancie and countenaunce the * faith that wée haue in Iesus Christe, and our hope in hys resurrection. The Apostle saith not simply: Sorrowe not for those that are fallen a sléepe, and bée not sadde. For that should be Stoique like, and of men he woulde make stones and blockes of woode, without any affection: But the doc∣trine of the Gospell importeth not the same. For although * that the Gospell of Iesus Christ doth correct and mortefie the wicked affections of the flesh, yet neuerthelesse it depri∣ueth nor spoileth man from all humaine affection, but amen∣deth onely that which is vicious, thorow the naturall cor∣ruption, procéeding from the sinne of man. It is impossible that we can be wout dolour & sorrow, although wée would, when we do sée the afflictions and miseries of our brethren, Page  [unnumbered] béeing of our flesh and bloud, The holy Scripture hath not condemned the sorrow and heauinesse that Abraham concei∣ued * for the death of Sara his wife, & Isaac of his mother, Io∣seph of his father Iacob: The Disciples of S. Iohn, & of Ie∣sus Christ, & of s. Steuen, & of s. Iames, of y^e teares y^e they haue shed & of y^e sorrow that they made: For man cannot be man, without béeing moued to pittie and compassion, séeinge the calamities of others, & féeling the damage that he himselfe receiueth. Therefore S. Paul speaketh very sharply, when * he sayd, that the faithfull shoulde not bée sorrowfull as the Panims and Infidels, who haue no hope of the resurrec∣tion. Sith then that he condemneth the dooinges of the Pa∣nims, we ought not to kepe them, except we would be rather counted Panims then Christians. It ought then to suf∣fice vs to bury honestly the bodies of the dead, and to put them in the earth as in their bed, tarrying and lookinge for the comming of Iesus Christ, and the generall resurrection of all fleshe. Therefore the Christians doe call the place that is appointed for their buriall Cimiterium, bycause that it is as the bed, couch and dortoire of the faythfull that be * dead. And therefore it is good to haue some certeine ho∣nest and comely place, as a common repository of the Chri∣stians, * and publike witnesse of the resurrection of the flesh. For we should doe great wronge vnto our bodyes which are the temple of God, in whom God dwelleth, and which haue bene consecrated and made holy through the bloude of Iesus Christ vnto his honour and glory, and dedicated vnto the immortall inheritage of his kingdome, if wée doe cast them to dogges, fowles and wilde beastes, as she carryon of wilde and brute beastes, as though they should liue no more after they were dead, and bée no perta∣ker of the immortalitie, no more then beastes. Their bodies ought to be more déere vnto vs, and more ioyned and knit vnto vs then their apparell, as Basile witnesseth. For that cause the Patriarches and true seruauntes of God * were praised, and namely Thoby, not for that they caused singing, praiers, & offering for the dead, and in spending their Page  68 substaunce without necessitie vpon the dead: But bicause they haue deliuered them againe to the earth their mother * from whom they came out: and that they haue so honoured them by their burying, without sparing that which was ne∣cessary for the bodyes of the seruaunts of God, for whom he was glorified. And the Panims themselues were greatly afraide to suffer those to lye vnburied who haue liued * honestly, and did not depriue but those who thorow dispaire did kill themselues, as yet vnto this day it is ordained by the Canons. But the Panims oftentimes, doe but cut off the hand that committed the fact, iudgeing it vnworthy to be buried with the body, to whom it hath done violence. Al∣so in some places they do punish with such insamy those that commit sacriledge, and that kill their fathers and mothers, and others that haue committed such execrable crimes: not∣withstanding that the Hebrewes after that they had satis∣fied to Iustice, buryed them, and would not suffer that the * buriall should be denied not to the enimies, as Iosephus wit∣nesseth: And the Lord by his Prophet declareth vnto y^e ty∣rant of Babilon, that he shall haue no place to be buryed in: And threateneth Ioachim that he shall be buried among the Asses, bicause of his infidelitie and tyranny.

The Panims had some appearaunce to doe that, & vsed not such crueltie as our Priests, who for default of money do refuse y^e buriall, not onely vnto the olde folke, but also to y^e little Infāts. And how many times doth it hap∣pen, y^t they haue excōmunicated some poore labourer or bus∣bādmā, * for twētie or thirtie soubs, yea, for thrée, & if he do die being so excōmunicated by thē, hauing not wherwith to pay, they haue denied him y^e place to be buried with y^e other chri∣stiās: * or els he must buy it déerly? And yet neuerthelesse there Canons deny not that Churchyard, but to those who are no Christiās, or who do kill thēselues: or to those y^e haue ben kil∣led in doing some wicked acte, as adultry, larceny, murder, & Iewish playes. I am greatly abashed where they & we haue had y^e vnderstāding. S. Paul & Moses do forbid vs expresly, to be cōfirmable to y^e imitatiōs of the Panims & Idolatrers, it Page  [unnumbered] that in dispite of them wée haue not taken any other myr∣rour, nor haue studied in any other thing. For what diffe∣rence is there betwéene our funerals and buryals & theirs? * Haue not we the Bels in stéede of the Minstrels that the Panims had? And euen as they had the Minstrelles that were best allowed, according to the estate and condition of the persons, so haue we the Bels, Priests & Monks. When * there dyeth any Prince or noble man or rich man, that hath well wherewith to pay, they will bury him with the trum∣pet, with many torches, with great pomp & procession, & with a great company of Minstrels, and of men and women, for to singe, wéepe and lament about him, as it doth wel appeare by the discription that Virgile made of the burying and fu∣nerals of Pallas the sonne of king Euander, sayinge, that af∣ter that hée was knowen to be dead in the Citie, and that the Citizens dyd vnderstand that men dyd bringe the body, and that it was already at hand, did as followeth.

And in an other place speaking of the wéepings & lamen∣tations done ouer the dead, saith:

And hesids all these things, the rich men were carried to the earth vpon a goodly Béere, with great magnificence and pomp, the which the Satyrical Poet hath comprised in a few verses, speaking of those which through their excesse, and Page  69 for that they follow not the counsayle of the Phisitian, and kéepe not good dyet doe kill themselues saying.

On the contrary parte, if there doe dye any poore man, * or anye younge childe, or man of small callynge, they doe bring him simply with a lyttle procession, and a small company, and the most times in the night, for the causes which already before haue bene touched, and they hadde but one lyttle Flute. Of which among others the Poet Statius doth witnesse it wryting of Archanorus, after this manner.

Sith that we are fallen into the talke of the Flute, I * doe remember an history that Plinie maketh mencion off, of a Rauen that was at Rome, who had learned to speake, insomuch that euery morning he went into the open stréets and saluted the Caesars, to wytte Tiberius, Germanicus, & Drusius, by their proper names, and also the people of Rome: For which cause he was so wel beloued, that when he was dead, the people of Rome put him to deathe that had killed him, and made such great sorrow and lamenta∣tions, that they celebrated funeralls and pompes for him, so that he was carryed to the graue vppon a goodly beere, very trimly decked & adorned, the which two Aethiopians or black Moores did beare vpon their shoulders, w^t a great number of garlāds & crowns of flowers, & a Fluter which played vpon the Flute before vntil they came to his graue.

Is it possible that the Romaynes, who haue ben so greatly estéemed thorow out the whole worlde, to haue Page  [unnumbered] bene so foolish?

They witnesse it themselues by their owne historyes: and you must vnderstand, bicause that the deade body was blacke, it was carryed by two Aethiopians or blacke Moores, as he was. But if they * had had of lacopins, Augustines, or Moonkes of the order of Saint Bennet they had bene a great deale fitter for that office: and so y^e Rauens should haue carryed y^e Rauen to the graue, and should haue put him in the Paradise of the Rauens. And doubte not, that if the Rauens, Dogs, and Asses had wherewith to bury them, and that the Priestes might get so much money from them as they doe from the rich men, that they woulde spare them no more then they doe the rich, and would haue no more pittie and compassi∣on of their soules, then of the soules of men. I doe mer∣uayle of nothing but of this that the Romaynes vsed rather the Flute in those funeralls of the Rauen, then the Trom∣pette * sith that in all the rest he was buryed as solemly as the rich men be. And what doe our Priestes? If any great Usurer be dead, they runne by and by to the great bell. There is not a Church nor parishe but that all the belles are walking, insomuch that they make a greater noyse then the Cyclopes doe with their Hammers and Mallets. I would counsell them to doe as the women of the Lacede∣monians did when their king was dead, who did runne a∣bout the country sounding and tinging of fire pannes, pots and basins (as men doe after Bées when they swarme) for to declare the death of their king. After that the belles are * once set in order a ringing, behold frō all quarters do come, Moonks, Priests, white, gray & blacke, smokid of al colours as Owles and Shrichowles, Rauens, Eagles, Wolues, and Dogges doe after carren, and they haue no néede to shaue themselues, as the Panims doe, for to lament and be sorrowfull. For they are already shauen of themselues as the Priestes of the Babilonians, Aegyptians, and the Priestes of Isis are: and are clothed wyth lynnen & white * shirts as they are. They doe serue for all: In stéede of Minstrells, singers, wéepers and lamenters. And euen Page  70 as those Panim Minstrells did sing pittifull and lamenta∣ble songs, and the euill fortunes of men, for to comfort the parents, euen so haue these our Priestes and Moonkes tur∣ned the booke of Iob into suche lamentacions and com∣playnts. *

Neuerthelesse it is concluded in the coun∣sell of Tholet, that those which are called of the Lorde from this worlde, ought to be carryed to their graue, one∣ly with singing of Psalmes, the rather to witnesse and declare that they doe not so mourne and lament as the Pa∣nims doe, then for any other thing, and also to declare the hope of the resurrection.

There was more appearaunce, in that which the Idolaters did, for they did sing in a language vnder∣standed of all men, & if the songs did not serue any thinge to the dead, yet at the least they serued somewhat to those that were alyue: But the roaring and bellowing of our Priests and Moonkes doe serue neyther for the one nor the other, but onely to accroche and gette to them money, and to cause it to come as the Birdes to the call: except perad∣uenture they woulde alleadge the reason of Macrobius which sayth, y^e men do accōpany the dead to the graue with * singing, bicause y^e panims beléeue after y^e y^e soules are sepe∣rated from y^• bodies, they doe follow that swéet harmony, & wyth the same goe vp to Heauen. For monye were of the opinion of Herophilus, Dicearchus, and Aristoxenus, * of whom Cicero maketh mention, who sayd that the soule was not altogether nothing, or onely a harmony, the which taketh pleasure with that pleasaunt singinge and melody: and goeth wyth it: And God graunt that these héere doe beléeue the soules to be immortall, and that they may haue a better opinion then those had. And also as touchinge the torches that the Panims carried, ther was some honest cause wherfore. For they carried them partly for to kindle * woode that was prepared for to burne the dead bodyes withall, bicause that when they were come to the place ap∣pointed & ordained for the same, y^e néerest of kin did take one Page  [unnumbered] of those torches, and kindeled the fire, as Virgile hath suf∣ficiently declared it, speaking of the burying of Misenus, after this manner:

Also in some places they haue néede of them, bycause that they doe bury them in the night, after the law of De∣metrius * Phalereus, who hath so ordayned it for to correct the superstuous pompe and pride of those exequies and fu∣neralls: which were too excessiue, insomuch that many did bestow great cost about them, and afterwardes they themselues wanted: as it happeneth dayly to many, who bestow great treasure vppon the dead, and do dye with hun∣ger in their houses: nor leaue wherewith to pay their owne debtes, nor those of the deade, and doe keepe backe that which is due vnto the good people, for to giue it to the Priestes. Bicause of those torches the Latenists doe call at this day the burialls Funus, bicause that they were made * with cordes, the which they cal Funes, as they do call them yet now. But the Turkes haue a better order and of more appearaunce in that, then we. It is very true that they haue some things lyke to our superstlcions. For in the bu∣rying of the rich men and men of honour, their Priestes whome they call in their language Thalassanians, doe fol∣low them a great number, according to the richnesse and e∣state of the dead, singing often times this Song and Lcta∣ny: God is God, and y^e true God, & Magman the Bessen∣ger of God. But they haue this goodnesse, that they do cause the Binges and Princes to buylde for some of them Iem∣ples, * for others Bospitalls. for Sepulchers and graucs, the which they enrich with great reuenewes and rentes: not for to nurrish the idle priests, but for to sucecur the neces∣sitie and no d• of the poore and needy.

All your matters are nothing but:sul of moc∣king and slaunderinges. Doth not all payne and trauayle require a rewarde? Is it not good reason that the parents and friends, which haue the goodes of the dead, and become their heires, should recompence the Pricstes somewhat: Hath not Iesus Christ sayd that the Laborer is worthy of * his rewarde? If the Priestes would doe that without ta∣king any thing, the heires and friends should make greate chéere with the goodes of the dead, and in the meane while the poore Priestes, which doe trauayle for them should die of hunger: And so by that meanes one shoulde finde none that would doe. that office nor which woulde be a Priest.

That should be a great incenuenience and very euil for the Christianitie, chiefely for the poore soules of Purgatory, who shoulde haue no more aduocates nor intercessors betwéene God and the Uirgin Mary, for to de∣lyuer them from those paynes.

I confesse that we must not moossell the * mouth, of the Oxe that treadeth out the corne, and it is also good reason that he that serueth the Gospell, shoulde lyue of the Gospell: But what trauayle doe those héere take: what seruices doe they, eyther to the quicke or to the dead?

To eate vp and deuoure their goodes and sub∣staunce.

That which you haue alleadged is against your selfe. For when Iesus Christ sayth that the worke∣man * is worthy to haue his meate, he speaketh of the Mi∣nisters of the Gospell, and not of Minstrells. He hath not commaunded the Christians to féede and giue meate to Minstrells for to haue them sounde in their eares: but Mi∣nisters for to preach y^e gospel to them. He letteth vs to vn∣derstande that we must worke and trauayle in the Mini∣sterie of the Gospell, by that that he sayth the workeman, not the idle and slougthfull. Afterwardes he declareth that he would not haue the Ministers of his Church couetous, * nor giuen to filthy lucre nor insatiable, when he declareth that the meate is due to the Pastours of the Gospell, but Page  [unnumbered] ought to content them selues, as the holy Apostle to be clo∣to c•, nourished and kept according to their estate and con∣dition: whithout super fluity, which may cause them to for get God, and without to great neede, which maye hinder them to exercise their office: But these here do neuer cease to a••e and to catch, & yet they do no workes that serue for y^e health of men It wine a great deale better y^e they would * shew forth ineffect y^e which they saye their belles do signi∣fie, then to haue beiles for to represent it. They do inter∣pret that the sound of their belles doth signifie the sound of the word of God, the which they ought to preach vnto the people and that the belles do signifie the prophets and mi∣nisters of the gospell, who ought to sounde in the Church of God: But they do leaue all the charge vnto the belles, and will not uiedle with it. Haue they not well prouided for the christian people, good preachers?

You do not vnderstand their practise. They are wyser then you thincke. Mee thinckes that men * cannot complaine of them, as touching the office of prea∣ching; for they haue so well prouided, that one cannot re∣buke them. It is verie true, that they do not preache: But they haue so many the more vicars to supply their office. Haue: they not the Churches full of Images? For you * know that their Images are lay mens and sooles bookes, as they tell vs. But I know not what bookes they are, nor on which side they must take them to open and read in them, or whether we must begin at the beginning, as y^• Oreekes, Latined, Frenchmen, and others like: or at the end, and so go backward, & cleane cōtrary to others, as the Hebrewes and Caldes do. Wee haue assayed them, and haue ta∣ken very sharpe Batchettes and Ares, for to open the leaues, which are so saste stirched and glewed together, that it is impossible to open and separate them a sunder, except we do hew and cut them in peeces. Wee haue loo∣ked beefore and behinde: towardes the head and the feete, the belly and the backe, but we could neuer soe any letter, neither to knowe whether they were written in Page  72 Greeke, Hebrew or Latine, nor yet in what language. To conclude, we find nothing there, but Mice, Pytch, Spiders, and such filthyuesse. But if they be the lay mennes books, whereto serueth then for them preachers, haue they not found them ready at hand and the most fytte as is pos∣sible to finde? First of all they coulde not haue founde them more fitter for them. For they doe neyther eate nor drinck, nor their meate and fire costeth them any thing. But which is more, they nurrishe and keepe them aboute them, and do well declare, that they are not vicars without cause. For the offrings that they receiue, they make a good accompt, and do pay a great reuenewe to their Curate and Byshop. Du the other side, should not the people haue great wronge to complaine? For they are gracyous prea∣ches. They neuer rebuke any man, but let euery one doe as he lisse. If the prophets, Apostles and ministers of the Gospell were such pleasant preachers, they should not be so much hated, nor euill entreated of men, but men would of∣fer vnto them candels, and hysse their f••t, •s they do those But thore is a great fault in them, for the which we must prouide. For not withstangding that they haue, goodly * mouthes, yet neuerthelesse they speake not, because they haue no voyce. Wherfore they haue the belles for are compence, which haue the voyes for to speake in stende of them although that they haue lso mouthes: But the Ima∣ges haue the countenaucos and do furnish the mouth & the belles the voyce, for to fulfill that which is written: except ye speake wordes that haue signification, howe shall it bee vnderstanded what is spoken? For you shall but speake in the ayre, and as a tinckling simball, and there is yet ano∣ther secret, whiche euery one vnderstandeth not. All those that did heare the Apostles in Hierusalem vpon the day of Pentecost, were cssonyed, bicause that not withstanding they were Galieans, yet neuerthelesse all of what language soe∣uer they were of, did vnderstand them speak as if it had ben their owne & natiue tongue & comon to al the he arers. Now ••asmuch as y^e •els are the Popes & • Priests Apostls, all Page  [unnumbered] of them bicause that they haue not that gifte of God, would counterfayte that miracle by their belles. For they doe * speake all languages, and such as it pleaseth the hearers. And what sounde soeuer they haue, they speake that which the hearer hath in his fantasie, as euery one may knowe by experience, and I my selfe can witnesse the same. For when I was a young childe, and that I did heare the bells towle as I went to schoole, I did thincke that they sayde sometimes that which some had put in my heade: Lost la∣bour, thou shalt be beate: and I was alwayes afrayd that they had sayd true. Euen so it happened vnto a widow who * desired much to marry, but she was ashamed to tell it, ther∣fore he sent hir to the belles whome she asked counsayle, knowing well hir affection, and that she would doe but that which was in hir fantasie, whatsoeuer counsayle one gaue vnto hir. When it was appoynted that she should heare the counsayle that the bells gaue vnto hir, she thought that they sayd vnto hir: Marry thée: afterwards when she was marryed, and that hir husbande which was verye iealous had well beaten hir for goyng or gaddinge abroade many times, and had well drused hir bones, séeing that that feast should alwayes last, she rebuked him that did giue hir that counsayle: and sayd vnto him: My friende you haue not well vnderstanded the bells: Goe presently and giue good eare; and you shall sée if they saye not the contrary: the which so happened. For bicause that hir fantasie was past she did thincke that the belles sayd: Marry not. Where∣fore I conclude that I haue sufficiently proued mine inten∣tion, and that the Priestes haue very well prouided for vs Preachers, and such as appertayne vnto vs: of whom we ought to content our selues. For fooles woulde alwayes that one should counsell them after their owne fantasie. And bicause that we are fooles, we desire such Preachers which speake after our owne fantasie. But we cannot bet∣ter finde them but at the belles.

It was commaunded in the lawe, that when the highe Bishop en∣tred into the Sanctuary, that he was clothed with a gowne Page  73 of Iacinte, which had Bels & Pomgranards hanging at y^e * hems. By which things I cannot vnderstand, but y^e by the Pomgranardes which are of a swéete sauour, the Lorde would figure Iesus Christ, who hath bene to him a sacri∣fice of a swéet sauour: And admonisheth all the true pastors of his Church, to be by their holy life & conuersation, a swéet sauour of the Gospel vnto the poore and simple people, as S. Paul sayth, that he hath bene. By the Belles, that the high Priest ought to be heard when he entreth into y^e sanc∣tuary, nor I doubt not but that also hée hath figured the preaching of the Gospell, by the which Iesus Christ and his Apostles haue awakened all the worlde: and after theire * example all the good shepheards of the Church and flock of Christ ought to doe, as Origine doth expounde it, sayinge: That the high priest should also haue round Bels about his bestment, y^e he entring into the Sanctuary, should be heard, and that he should not enter with silence. And those Bels which ought alwayes to sounde, are put in the hemme of the bestment, and that is to that ends that thou shouldest neuer holde thy peace vntill the ende of the worlde, but that alwayes thou bée hearde thereby, that thou doe dispute, and speake, as hée which sayth: Remember the ende or the latter thinges, and thou shalt not sinne. Beholde the expo∣sition of Origine, the which I would gladlye they woulde followe, and that they woulde consider that sith that the time of ceremonies is past, we haue no more néede of their Belles, for to figure vnto vs that which hath bene figured of the high Priest: But y^e in stéede of the figure & shadow, they would giue vnto vs the veritie of the thinges figured, after the example of Iesus Christ, and of his Apostles: or if they will yet kéepe and holde vs in shadowes and fi∣gures, it is better for thē to follow those of Moses, then to inuent & make for vs new, as they do. For they cannot finde better, nor more proper: If they doe ring or towle theyre Belles, for to call the people together to the Churche, for to preach vnto them the woord of God: or when any man is dead, for to admonish euery one of mans infirmitie & weak∣nesse, Page  [unnumbered] & to preach onto them the iudgment of God. & to teach euery one how he ought to prepare himselfe to dye, and to confirme & strengthen them in the hope of the resurrecti∣on, declaring vnto them that the bloude of Iesus Christ is the true Purgatory of the soules, and that there is none o∣ther, their ringing and singing would haue a little more appearance, and should be more conformable to the auncient Church: But they do it altogether for none other ende but to induce and leade the people to superstition, and for to strengthen them in their opinion of purgatory, making thē * to pray for the dead, without any word of God. But do they not yet alledge an other goodly reason, sayinge: that they doe ring their Bels in their processions, funerals, and at o∣ther times, to that ende to make the diuels afraide, and to compell them to flée: For they say that those are the trum∣pets of the Church militant, of which the Dyuell hath as great feare, as a tyrant hath whē he heareth that one giueth him the Larame, and as the sounde of the Trumpets and Drummes of a puissaunt King or Prince, which is his ene∣my, and come for to discomfort him: For that cause say they, doe they carry the banner and the crosse, and that they cause the Bells to bée ronge and towled for the tempests, and also for to admonish the people to pray vnto God: But it were a great deale better that they would make suche admoniti∣ons * by the preaching of the Gospell, and that they woulde arme the people with the buckler of faith, & weapon them with the swoord of the spirite, which is the woord of God, for to defend them against the Diuell, & to driue him away. For these are the true weapons, which the Diuell feareth, and which S. Paul giueth to the Christian knight.

If that little children, or any olde dreamers and fooles had held y^e opinion, one could not but laugh: But is it not great shame that such men who would be estéemed and counted the pyl∣lers of the fayth, would forge and inuent such a Theology? But haue they not good leasure to baptize the Belles? Is * not that to mooke and scoffe with Iesus Christe and hys baptisme, to baptize Brasse and insensible mettalles? Page  74 The aduenturers or vagabondes whiche baptized a Calfe, and called him a pyke for to eate him in Lente in stéede of a fishe, hadde not they more cause to doe for I doe, iudge that they thincke that one can driue awaye the Dyuelles as they doe the byrdes from the vanes. If the Dyuelles were lyke vnto the Bées, they woulde staye them rather: And I doe feare that it happe∣neth so well vnto them. For as farre as we can per∣ceiue by their workes, there is not a people that hath so manye Dyuelles aboute them. But you haue lette * out the beste, that is, they saye that at the solempne feastes wée muste ringe muche, and a longe time for to awaken the drunckardes, and those that sléepe. But will you haue mée tell you the true interpretation of * their Bels? Consider the forme & fashion of a Bell. It hath a little head, but it hath the greater belly. Wherefore I cannot vnderstand, according to the Morrall, Allegoricall or Anagogicall sence, but that they doo signifie that they are no other thing but fatte and slouthfull bellyes, and that they * passe not on the head, but onely on the belly. And euen as they are but bellies, they doe also very well knowe that other men doe loue more the belly then the head, & notwith∣standing that all haue a goodly belly, and loue it well, there are but a fewe which care much for the head, the brayne, wit and vnderstanding, nor which take any thought to haue it. Wherefore I beléeue that they haue determined so much to ringe theire Belles, that they maye breake altoge∣ther the heade of those whiche haue yet a verye lyttle, to that ende, that neyther wytte nor vnderstandinge myght abyde in them. In suche sorte that wée maye well make it a Prouerbe, as well as the auncientes haue made it of the Basinnes, Caudrons and Belles of Dodonaeus. Beholde the truest exposition friende * Eusebius that I can at this time gyue vnto thée: And thincke not that thou canst gyue vnto mée a better nor more proper: excepte peraduenture thou wylte saye, that they dooe the same after the immitation of the Page  [unnumbered] Gallots, Curets, and Corybants, Priestes of the Goddesse * Cyble the mother of Gods, whome they doe carrye vp∣pon their shoulders in their processions, sounding of Cym∣balles, * Drummes, Belles, and other such instrumentes, which doe make a great noyse, wyth the crye and sound of their Letanyes, which they goe singinge after: as manye * auncient Authours doe witnesse, as well Panims as Chri∣stians, namely Lactantius which alledgeth some verses of Ouid, who among others, in a few woordes speaking of hir feast, comprehendeth all these things, saying:

Epiphanius that good and learned Byshop and of great estimation among the auncients, did write a booke, that hée * made of heresies, saying, that ther were in his time, some wo∣men of Siria who did begin to carry in that sort the Image of the Virgin Mary and offered vnto it oblations: But hée * saith that the same superstition and Idolatry was repressed and beaten downe through the diligence of good Bishops & pastors, knowing that the same was none other thing, but an imitation of the furor and madnesse of the Panims.

Wherefore Epiphanius, numbreth that errour in the Roule of the heresies that hée hath made. And yet neuerthelesse our Priests haue not ceased therefore to put it foorth, and more greater Idolatry then euer was among the Priests Page  75 of Cyble and Isis, after whose example they doe carrye their Idolls, Relicks, Hearses and Shrines, and for to declare that they are their successours, they haue theire heads shauen, & their surples: & many other ornaments of lynnen and white cloth, as those had, as the Poet sayth:

And agayne he sayth.

Forasmuch then as it is thought that they make Di∣uells afrayde, and driue them away by the sounde of the belles, those there then oughte to make them tremble and quake. Wherefore I thinke that forasmuch as our Priestes doe say that their belles are the Trompettes of the great King, and that their streamers that they carry in their Processions, are his Enseigns and Banners, they ought also to carry and sound Drommes and Trumpets, for to make it better appeare vnto the Diuell, that they wil ioyne a strong battaile with him, & that they come not with false Enseignes, & that their quarrell is not the sport and play of lyttle children, and that they will not suffer * the auncient custome of their olde auncestours and prede∣cessours to bée abolyshed whome we haue of late named, from whome they doe not much differ as touchinge their Ceremonyes: But the most greate difference that I can finde, is, that these héere are not so chast as the others are, bicause they are not gelded as they are. For that should be agaynst their orders and Canons, and manye women would be barren, if we had not such Saintes for to make them beare children. And as touching that that they doe ring their belles agaynst the time of thunderinges, lyghte∣nings and tempests, and that they doe coniure them, they cannot deny but in the same they do follow the Panims, Page  [unnumbered] who had their exorcismes, coniuratione, ringinges and o∣ther manner of doings agaynst them, which did not much differ from those of these héere. It is very true that the * Panims had not such belles, bicause they were not then vsed as they are now: But in steade of them they clap∣ped their hands the one agaynst an other for to make an noyse, & made a noyse with their mouthes, for to appease * and quallyfie the thundrings and lyghtenings, after the manner as men doe clap their horses and make much of them, thinking that the same would serue in steade of a remedy, that the lyghtening should not strike them. Some did carry of the Baye trée, in stéede whereof we did car∣ry woode, leaues and boughes and braunches of trées that had ben halowed vpon Palme Sunday, & of Easter flow∣ers, or the skinnes of Sea Calues, bicause that among all the Sea beastes, men saye that lyghteninge will not touch the sea Calfe, nor the Eagle among the soules.

And for what serued the Baye trée?

They had this opinion, that lyghtning would neuer fall vppon it, nor could strike it, as almost all those y^e haue written of his propertie & nature doe witnesse it. They had also the arte and manner to coniure the tem∣pests, * and to make the God Iupiter come from heauen, for to adiure them and driue them away: the which they had learned and receiued of Numa Pompilius the second king of the Romaynes.

I doe not finde in the Scripture that the people of God euer vsed such sorceries & coniurings, nor y^e they euer had any recourse to candels, holy water, holy wood, y^e bay trée, to the bells nor to y^e con∣iurations, for to driue away y^e lyghtnings & tempest. For y^t * appertayneth better vnto the Magicians, Sorcerers, & En∣chaūtors, who do attribute vnto themselues the power to moue y^e heauen and earth, to moue & stir vp y^e lyghtnings & tempests, & to appease them, & to plucke y^e Moone and the Stars from heauen. But the true seruaunts of God, in all daungers & perils, or if y^e heauē hath ben shut vp, so y^t it gi∣ueth no rayne: or if it sendeth hayles, thūders & tempests: Page  67 or it famine, plague, or drought haue bene on the earthe: * if the corne haue bene destroyed, or the Locusts & Cater∣pillers haue destroyed the goodes of the earth: or if they haue bene afflicted with any other kinde of plague or ma∣lady, they vse none other remedy but to tourne themselues to God only with prayers, with true repentaunce of the sinnes and amendment of lyfe. And y^e Lord hath alwaies heard them, according to the request y^e Salomon made vn∣to * him, when he dedicated to him his Temple.

They make me to remember those mockers and dispisers of God, which were among the Panims, who did clappe their féet together agaynst y^e thunders & tempests, & for to * shew themselues more wicked, did open their bellyes a∣gainst them, in mocking & scoffing it: Of which these pro∣uerbs do yet continue. Euen so it séemeth y^e those woulde mocke God, & counterfet these thunders as Salmoneus did.

You can declare and set forth vnto me nothinge but the Panims. But wherefore doe you not alleadge vn∣to me aswell y^e minstrells, and the singings, which y^• Isra∣elites, that were y^e people of God, vsed in their burialls? As it appeared by those which were in y^• house of Iairus the chiefe ruler of y^e Sinagoue when his daughter was dead, whom Iesus raysed to lyfe agayn, & yet he rebuked not the ministrells: the which he would not haue omitted if he had iudged the same to be euil. Wherefore may we not haue aswell bells & Priestes for to sing, as those had * minstrels, for to incite & prouoke them to lamentacions & compassion vpon the dead, & to pray to God for them with a better courage?

You come to the ende of my matter, & by that compt the Priests doe serue vs in stéede of minstrels. But it is to be feared that Iesus will driue them out of his Church, as he auoyded out those of Iairus out of the chamber and house. For he will not haue Priests for the dead, nor he sent his Apostles and Disciples, but for those that be alyue. For y^e true Euangelical Priests & Ministers of the Church, ought to be lyke vnto the Phisitians, who Page  [unnumbered] are alwayes assistaunt vnto men asmuch as they can, and * help and succour them asmuch as is possible during their lyfe for to kéepe them in healthe, or to heale them when they are sicke, but after that they be dead, they haue no more to doe. For they cannot ayde nor helpe them any more, therefore they doe to them no more afterwards. But our Priestes are Phisitians, who suffer their Patients to dye, without helping them, after they will bring vnto them medicines when they are dead: But Iesus Christ would haue no such: as he hath giuen vs to vnderstande by the aunswere that he made to one of his disciples, which asked him leaue to goe and bury his father, saying: Suffer the * dead to bury their dead. But what appearaunce is there, that Iesus Christ would occupy y^e Ministers of his church, and the true Cuangelycall Priestes about the dead, sith that God woulde not onely suffer that the high Prieste of the lawe, and the other Priestes should goe to the burials nor that they should come nye any dead bodyes, except they were their fathers or mothers, or any of their nigh kins∣menne? The which thing he pernutted not to the highe Priest. The chaunce should be much chaunged, and the Gospell should haue made vs Priestes very contrary and differing much from those of the people of God. For wée doe not reade that euer they medled with the deade, nor that they prayed nor offred sacrifices for thē, notwithstan∣ding y^e they were vnder the shadows & figures of the law, and in the time of the sacrifices, which now thorow Ie∣sus Christ are abolyshed. And our Priests doe serne vs al∣wayes for none other thinge, but to bóe letted about the dead.

It were a great deale better to hire the min∣strells and lamenters as the auncients dyd, then to nurrish and féede so many fat bellyes, with so great dayntyes, and costs. For we should pay them no mony but when we do set them to worke, and they will serue vs asmuch as those our Priestes, whome we must kéepe all the yeare longe, with great costes, charges and expeuces. I doubt not but Page  77 that Moses did well foresee that. Therefore hath he tho∣row the spirite of God forbidden, that the Priestes should not be present at the burials. I had rather that they would doe as the Aegyptians did, who did put the body of their * king, when he was dead, before the entring in of the graue or sepulcher, afterwardes did reade a lystle booke contay∣ning his actes, and that which the king had done during his lyfe. And he that would might disprayse them. The Priests were there present, who did examine an iudge of all the poynts. The people also were there present, and did clap their hands and reioyce at the praises of the king, and did vituperate and disprayse the vyces. The same gaue a certeyne feare vnto the kinges and Princes that they should not abuse their office, and did admonish them to be vertuous if they would haue prayse of men. for it did chaunce some times, that the king lyued so wickedly and detestable, that they did iudge him vnworthy to be buryed. The lyke did they of other men. In lyke manner the Greekes and Latines had a custome to prayse the bertuous * men after their death, & to make Drations in their prayse, aswell for the consolation and comforte of their parents, as for to incitate and moue others vnto vertue, by theire examples. For that cause they doe rehearse their prow∣esses, their vertues and valyauntnesse. And to make an honest mention at sometime for to encourage others to bée vertuous. Thucidides witnesseth, that y^e custome to praise the dead did begin among the Greekes by Pericles, who * was the first that openly made an oration in the prayse of those which were dead in the warre of Peloponense. Al∣so among the Romaines, Valerius Publicola was the first, * which after that manner praysed his companion Brutus, as witnesseth Titus Liuius. Afterwards that custome hath continued among the Gentiles & Idolaters, If our Priests would serue vs in that stead, the thing would be more tol∣lerable: although y^e we haue the word of God sufficient inough for to merte & moue vs vnto vertue & honestie: But they serue vs to none other ende but to ease, and the grea∣test Page  [unnumbered] thoeues and vsurers, are those vnto whom they doe the greatest honours, and giue the greatest prayses, and doe bury them with greatest magnificence. But if any poore man doe bye, that hath not readye money, scant and with muche a doe shall hee haue one Priest sor to beare him companye, nor one scant to ringe the lyt∣tle bell.

There is no doubt but y^e the auncient Chri∣stians, bicause y^e some were come of the Iewes, & some of y^• panims, haue yet hept many of the manners and cu∣stomes that they vsed in their countryes, the which yet neuerthelesse they haue chaunged into a better vse. For the Iewes and Panims had many things, which of thē∣selues might be tollerable, and to serue to some kinde of honestie and cluilitie, if the supersticion and the foolish o∣pinions had bene taken away. In the auncient Churche * when that any faythfull man was dead béeing constant in the fayth of Iesus Christ, and that he made a goodly con∣fession in his death, they vsed to make a commemoration to the congregation, for to incite and stirre vp others to such faithe and constantnesse, and chiefely when he hath bene killed by the Tyrants, and that he hath bene the true * martir of Iesus Christ, & in the mids of his torments hath constantlye confessed the truthe, and hath witnessed it by his death, and sealed it by his bloude. For that cause the * Notaryes and Protonotaryes were constituted and ap∣poynted, who were charged to write truely and after the truth the Ecclesiasticull historyes, the lyues and doo∣ings of the holy Martirs, & true seruaunts of God, for the edification of the Church and congregation: for at certein times they made commemoration vnto the Congregati∣on of the fayth and constantnesse of the Martirs, for to comforte and for tesie the poore faythfull in the middes of the persecutions that they suffered for Iesus Christ, to the ende that after the example of the Martirs, they shoulde prepare themselues rather to dye valyantly for the wit∣nesse of the truth, then to renounce and forsake it. And Page  78 the Dration and Sermon that Saint Ambrose made for * the Emperour Theodosius after that he was dead, tended to none other ende. And when the good auncient byshops praysed after that sorte the good seruants of God, that had faithfully trauailed in his worke & vyneyard, they did go about no other thing by that meanes, but to edifie the con∣gregation with good examples, euen as the holy prophets and Apostles haue described vnto vs y^e holy scriptures, the liues and actes of holy men, which haue bene called of God, for to instruct and teach vs by their example. This manner of doing was not altogether to be despised, and it might be practised to ediflcation, if sathan the enemie vnto all goodnesse had not altogether conuerted and turned it into superstition, Idolatry, and blasphemie, as wee see and proue it dayely. For from those beginninges the Prothonotaries are descended, whome wée haue yet at this present time, who keepe onelye the name * without exercising the office. For to what ende doe they serue vs?

To hunt after and so laye wayte for benefyces. What woulde you they shoulde doe, woulde you haue them to wrytte and register the lyues of our Popes, Cardinals, Byshoppes, Priests and Moonkes? They will leaue the charge of that * vnto the Lutheriaus, whiche are their protonotaries, for to describe and paint out the legend of such saints and Mar∣tyrs of Venus, rather then of Iesus Christe. For theyr lyfe and conuersation is so holy, that they had rather that men woulde neuer speake of it, and that the remem∣braunce thereoff shoulde bée altogether defaced and forgotten. Yet I thincke that they rendered no greate thanckes vnto Platine who hathe wrytten so muche, althoughe that he tourned the sayest side outwardes as * nigh as hée coulde.

Thys is yet the leaste faulte of the Prothonotaries: But from that same fountayne Page  [unnumbered] is risen and sprong vp the errour of inuocation of Saints, * of feasts, wanderings, blessings, relycks, pilgrimages, and all other Idolatry and supersticions, which men do com∣mit dayly about the Saints. For wheras in the auncient Church men did but onely make mention of the lyfe, faith and constantnesse of the Martirs and Saynts when the people assembled themselues in the Ecclesiasticall assem∣blyes, without inuocating or praying to the Saynts, but onely vnto God: Afterwards in processe of time, the su∣persticious and Idolatrous Christians, haue made of the Saynts Gods, and haue dedicated to them, Feasts, Tem∣ples, Aultars and Chappells. And haue begonne to sing * Himnes and supersticious songs in their honour & prayse, after the same manner as the Panims and Idolaters did to their Binges and Emperours, when they Ca•onized them. And are not content to preach their lyues and Le∣gende, as the auncients did: but haue added vnto it fables and lyes. and haue made to them Masses, in such sort, that * for one supper of Iesus Christ, we haue more then thrée hundreth nullyons of Masses, all contrary and differinge the one from the other. By that meanes the Prophecie, the preaching of the worde of God, the Supper of Iesus Christ, Prayers, and Ecclesiasticall assemblyes, and the true commemoration of the Saints, are altogether aboly∣shed, in such sorte that there is nothing, but that it is al∣together peruerted and tourned into more greater super∣stition and Idolatry, then euer it was among the Panims. As much happened about y^e other faythful that dye, which are not counted for Canomsed Saynts. For as on the one * side they are giuen to inuocat & pray to the Saynts, whom they beléeue to bée in Heauen: Euen so on the other side, they giue themselues to praye for the deade, whom they thinke to haue yet neede of their prayers and good deedes, for to helpe them, and to prepare the waye to Heauen, •• steede of the simple commemoration y^• they did in y^• aun∣cient Chruch, without vsing praiers for the health of their soules. but only exhortatiōn, adm•nitions & consclatiōs, for Page  79 the health and saluation of those that be aliue. After that manner ought we to vnderstand that whiche the auncient Ecclesiasticall doctors haue written of the faythfull that dye, and of the care that we ought to haue of them. And if peraduenture it be so that Sainct Ambrose, Crisostome, Cyprian, Hierome, Augustine, or any other the like, doe séeme to haue written otherwise, yet neuerthelesse they will not allow such superstition as is at this day amonge the Christians: And although they should haue done it, yet we are not bound to bel•eue them, without the authoritye of the Scripture. We are most certaine of our side, that there is no place in all the holy scripture, by which one can proue that manner of dooing, except one will marre and peruert the sence thereof. And for to declare the same more playnly, I demaund of thée, what the Priestes do in the name of the dead, doe they it for those whiche are in hell?

Thou mayst well perceiue they doe it not. For they themselues do sing, that in hell there is no re∣demption, * as it is playnly declared vnto vs by the aunswer that Abraham made vnto the wicked ryche man, saying that there is a greate space betwéene those whiche are in the places of blessednesse, and those whiche are in hell fire, vnto whom the riche cannot haue somuch only as one droppe of water for to put vpon his toungue for to coole it.

Haue those who are alreadye in Paradise with the blessed any profit, of their suffrages and prayers.

They haue no more néede of them. *

And yet neuerthelesse they pray not but for those that be there, and I will take none other witnes then themselues to proue it. I pray thée consider and ex∣amine wel the Epistle taken out of the Reuclation of S. Iohn, which they sing in their Masse for the dead & marke viligently howe it agréeth with their Lugentibus in Pur∣gatorio: And how is it possible that the faithfull that dye should be rosted and tormented in Purgatorye, and that Page  [unnumbered] they should be at rest, as they sing both the one and the o∣ther, speaking against themselues. They sing: Blessed are * those which hereafter dye in our Lorde, euen so saith the spirite, that they do rest from their laboures, But theyr workes shall follow them. First they say: Blessed are they which dye in the Lord. And who be those that dye in the Lord, but the good, faithfull and the Christians? If they then are blessed, all the other which do not dye: in the fayth of our Lord, are cursed.

I denie it not.

Wherein consisteth that blessednesse and felicitie? doth not Sainct Iohn giue the reason, alleaging not his authority, but the authority of he spirite of God, that he himselfe hath heard? saying: hereafter they rest from their laboures. Thou doest well perceiue that they are called blessed, bicause that by death they go and depart from the trauayles and wicked∣nesse of this world, and after the same doe go into eternall rest and ioy, Syth then that it is so, what neede they anye longer to sing: Requiem eternam dona eis domine: O Lord giue them eternall rest, syth that they haue it alreadye? For they doe not pray but for those which are dead in our Lord.

Thou interpretest the scripture for thine ad∣uauntage and as it pleaseth thée.

Eusebius is always a good Gregorianist. But I do greatly feare y^• he * shall not escape Purgatory in the ende.

You shall not yet plucke it out of my handes for all that. For Sainct Iohn speaketh there properly, of the faithfull, which haue suffred, and which haue bene killed for the witnes of the truth. For those haue suf∣fred sufficiently in this world, and haue had their Purga∣torie. and accomplisned their penaunce. He speaketh not ge∣nerally of all the Christians, but only of the Martirs, whom the greate beast hath persecuted.

I agree vnto thee that the holy spirit spea∣keth that, chiefely for the consolation of the poore that be af∣flicted, whiche suffer persecution for the name of Iesus, Page  80 promising vnto them rest, after the trauayles and wicked∣nesse of this mortall life, for to fortefie and strengthen them in the crosse, to that end they may be more patient in tribulation, and that they shoulde perseuer and continue boldlye and stedfastly vnto the ende. But you can not de∣nye, but y^• the sentence is generall, and that it comprehen∣deth all the faithfull. For they cannot bee faithfull with∣out bearing rightly the crosse of Iesus Christ, and without hauing great paine and trauayle, after whiche they looke for rest. And least thou shouldest thinke that I haue alled∣ged that place euill to the purpose, I will tell thée yet far∣ther, that it maketh not onelye Purgatorie to fall downe, but also the inuocation of Saincts. For sith that rost from * their labours is promised vnto the Saincts, and that the prayers whiche the holy men make for their neighboures, whilest they are in this life, are comprised and contayned amongst the laboures of the sainctes, we may conclude, that •fter that they haue ended the course of this mortall life, and finished their combat, that they rest them that laboure as well as the other. For they haue no more neede but to prayse God, and to giue him thankes, and oughte no more to be occupied for to serue men, sith that they are out of all necessitie, and that they haue ended the ministry that they had amonge menne. At the leastwise, althoughe that it bee, wée haue not in all the holy scripture. example nor yét authority, for to endure and léad vs to inu•cate them: But we haue not now to debate vpon that poynt, I haue onelye desired to touche the same by the waye. As to the other matter, touch 〈◊〉 Purgatory, for to take front thee that fantasie whiche thou haue against• my interpretation. I will confyrme it vnto thée by the verye interpretatyou of the Priestes, taken from the chiefest of the Canon of theyr Masse. Marke well the Memento that they saye when they sing Masse for the dead.

Peraduenture hoe will not heare thée bicause he is altayd to be excommunicatod. And also hel• da•e you Page  [unnumbered] recyte it• For you know verye well that it is forbidden * vnder paine of excommunication to all those that bée not Priestes, to reade the Canon, and to recyte it.

Aswell is the Alcoran of Mahomet, vnder paine of death: But I will not be a frayd to read it for all that if I had it. For I buylde my selfe vpon S. Paul, which sayth: Cramine all things and kéepe that whiche * is good.

But it is otherwise of the Canon of the Masse for it is to be feared, that if the lay people shoulde heare the sacramentall wordes pronounced, they woulde doe as the Priest, and that thereby would come greate hurte. As Clythoueus doth declare and witnes moste euidently in his * Clucidatory by the example of certaine Shepehardes, who bicause they haue heard and kept in mind the sacramental wordes, did put bread vpon a stone, afterwardes they pro∣nounced the wordes. That bread (as they saye) was con∣uerted and changed into fleshe, after the pronunciation of & wordes. But fire and lightning fell sodeinly downe from heauen vpon them and killed them all.

The witnesse is well worthy of the Doctor, from whom it procéeded. But he is not the first that hath inuented that fable. For Durant and others, that haue written of that matter dothe almoste all of them al∣ledge it.

Wherefore then hath Iesus Christ com∣maunded * that his Gospell shoulde bee preached vnto all creatures, without excepting eyther the lay people or the ignorant, vnto whom yet neuerthelesse the supper is reci∣ted all at length? Wherefore hath not he warned his Apo∣stles to keepe those wordes secret? And wherefore haue they published and written it all at length in their Gospel bookes, which ought to be in the handes of all Christians? Is the Canon of the Masse more worthy & more holy then the holy Gospell of Iesus Christ?

ye ought not to iest or mocke: For you doe not yet know that God doth behold you. What sayest thou Page  81 of the Canon and Memento of the dead? Art thou so foo∣lish and bolde that thou wilt finde fault wyth it?

First make what it conteineth, and after * thou shalt vnderstand what I will say?

I am very well content. For I am very sure that you shal finde nothing to reproue me.

I will recite it vn∣to shee worde for worde, that thou shouldest not thincke that I haue eyther added or diminished any thing for mine own pleasure: Remember O Lord thy men seruants and thy women seruaunts, who haue gone before vs with the signe of faith and doe rest in the sléepe of peace, We bes•ech thée O Lord, that it would please thée to graunte vnto them and vnto all those that rest in Christ, place of comfort, lyght and peace, through our Lord Iesus Christ, Amen. First, after that the Priest hath sayd: R•mem∣ber O Lord thy men seruauntes, women seruaunts, and handmaydes, there is an N•in a redde Letter, which sig∣nifieth in that behalfe that ye must expresly name those, for whome the Masse in song, and in whose name the mo∣ney is payde for, faying it.

I do know a man that sometime had bene a Priest, and now lyueth honest∣ly, after the reformation of the Gospell who dyd confesse vnto me, that all the while that he was a Prieste, that hée kept very good countenaunce in singinge Masse, vntyll hée came vnto that place: But when he was come to the com∣memoration of those women and handmaydens, they en∣tered so much into his head, that afterwardes he could not haue his spirite in quiet.

Bicause that he was an whooremonger, hée * coulde not lyue chastlye, but gaue hymselfe to bee one of your societye, for to breake hys volue and to mary.

Hath he not done better, thē to burne through concupisence and transgresse the commaundement of God * for to keepe his vow, as Herode who caused Iohn Baptist to be beheaded, for to keepe his oth? Hath not he done bet∣ter then those fat whooremōgers, who had rather to perse∣uer in their whoredome, and to abide stil in their filthines, Page  [unnumbered] then to vse the holy mariage which God hath giuen to bée * a remedy vnto all those y^• haue not the gift of continency: of which they do wel know how farre they are •rō it. God knoweth what goodly redemers & aduocats y^• soules haue of them, betwéene God & them. Now much do you thinke y^• they haue, who do thinke more vpon their handmaides when they saye their Memento, then on the soules of Purgatory, for whome they doe singe the Masse? And al∣though that their doctrine were true, they make you of∣ten Idolaters. For although that they affirme that the body of Iesus Christ and God be realy in the hoast, yet neuerthelesse their booke, whiche they call Rationale diui∣norum * officiorum, witnesseth that if y^• Priest hath not the intent to consecrate when he pronounceth the sacramen∣tall * wordes, he doth not consecrate. And so by that means it is not God, but the bread abideth still bread. And conse∣quently all those which doe worship it are Idolaters. For they doe worship the bread, and not God. Wherefore I referre it to thine owne selfe to thinke, when those maid∣seruauntes doe enter into their minde, and such other fan∣tasies, which are as good stuffe, what intent they haue, when they thinke thereon, and what God they can forge.

By that reckening the Priest whiche was * burned of late at Rolle, which is betwéene Lausanna and Geneua, for that he was a Sorcerer ought to haue made the people Idolaters. For he confessed that he was xxiiij. yeares a Sorcerer. And which is more, hée had also hys whoore which was a Sorceresse, who was burned aswell as he, who did make hir a Sorceresse. Forasmuche then as he denyed God, Creame and Baptisme, as all Sorce∣rers doe confesse in their proces (if it bée so) what fayth can he haue to the Masse, and what consecration ought he to make?

The Papistes doe thincke that the same is well prouided for by the counsayle which the booke aboue alledged gyueth them. For to auoyde such an inconuc∣nience, he counsayleth the Christian that he doe worship Page  82 the hoast with such condition, saying in his heart: Lord god if thou art there, I doe worship thée: if thou art not ther, I doe not worship thée. And that counsaile is taken from * Thomas Aquinus, who resolued that question after y^• sort. For by that condicion all adoration, if ther be but bread, he auoydeth to be an Idolater. But I pray thée consider a little, whether y^• our fayth be well builded, seing that it is builded vpon the intent of a Priest, and howe that it can be faith, séeing alwaies that it is in doubt.

Thou art a slaunderer. For all y^• Doctours say not so?

I do well know that they are not all of one agréement and that Nicholas de Ploue, sayth, that the intent is ne∣cessarily requisite, and not the attent, and that it sufficeth * that y^• Priest haue a general intent to consecrate, although that he be not alwaies attentiue, and thincke not still on that that he sayth and doeth, wherein neuerthelesse hée sinneth greatly. All doe trauaile as much as they can to finde reason out of reason. But it sufficeth me so that the same which I speake be written in the booke whiche gy∣ueth the reason of your diuine seruice and ceremonies.

Thou hast no good manner, in alwaies in∣terrupting vs in our talk.

What wilt thou haue me to doe? When I remember the great follies that they haue spoken & done, I am constrained to make some pa∣renthesis, & some little digressiō. But leue not off to return vnto thy matter & to go forward with it. I beleeue y^• thou hast not forgotten it. That followeth afterwards which thou hast said of y^• menseruaunts & maidseruaunts: which haue gone before vs with the signe of faith, & do rest in the sléep of peace.

Thou séest already Eusebius, for * whō they pray, to wit for those, of whō S. Iohn speaketh off in y^e Apocalips, which are dead in our Lord, & rest frō their labours. For to dye in our Lord, & to go with y^• signe of faith, to rest from their labours, & to rest in the sléepe of peace, is all one. And Clithoue himselfe is constrained * to expounde those woordes by the same of Saint Iohn. Wherefore thou maist know, that they doe praye but for Page  [unnumbered] those which are already in Paradise. For there are none other whiche doo rest in the sléepe of peace but those. It followeth then that they doe also pray for y^• vir∣gin. * Mary and for all the Saintes of Paradise. Now let vs heare what thing they require for them. Wée beséech thée that it would please thoe to graunt vnto them and vnto all those that rest in Christ, place of comfort, lyghte and peace: If they rest in Iesus Christ, are they not al∣ready in place of comfort, lyght and peace? Otherwyse I know not what it is to rest in Iesus Christe, seeinge that it is written. That although that the righteous be ouerta∣ken * wyth death, yet shall he be in reste. If they be in a fire, as the wycked rich man, of whom thou hast spoken, & that they doe burne as they make vs beléeue, what dif∣ference is there betwéene them and the dampned? Thou knowest very well that Lazarus who was in Abrahams * bosome, and who rested in the sléepe of peace, bicause that he was departed from this world, with the signe of faith that he had in the promises made vnto Abraham, & of the séede of blessednesse, was in a place far differing from the other, in which he rested in ioy, pleasures and delights. For if after that the faythfull be called f•ō this world, he wero kept in the fire, in what rest should he be frō his laboures? Should he not be in worse estate then he was before?

After that I haue laboured al the day, & haue much sweated, it I must go into a furnase when I should go to bed, for to rest my selfe in y^• same al night, I woulde neuer go to bed.

But where should be the promise of Iesus Christ who hath said so oftentimes: Hée y^• beléeueth in me hath euerlasting life and shall not come * into condempnation, but hath passed from death vnto life? And that which S. Paul saide, now then there is no con∣dempnation to thé that are in Christ Iesus, which walke not after y^• flesh, but after the spirit.

That is not repugnant: For those which are in purgatory are alre∣dy * assured that they shall not be dampned. But they shal haue eternal life; after y^• they haue satisfie• for their sins. Page  83 Theophilus. Sith that there is such punishment, it must néedes bée that it hath iudgement and condemnation: For God punisheth not without iudgeing: And I knowe not how wée can make y^• opinion agree with so many goodly pro∣mises which God hath made vnto vs by his Prophetes, and by all the holy Scriptures: nor yet with that whiche the Priests themselues doe singe in the prose of the deade, * which beginneth: Dies irae, dies illa soluet seculum, &c. They doe say in a little verse.

They céerely and plainely confesse that wée are saued through grace, and doe vse thys aduerbe, Gratis, which sig∣nifieth froely and franckly. Wherein they doe very well agrée to that which Sainct Paul witnesseth, saying: You are iustified fréely by his grace. That is not then by our * woorkes, and satisfactions: For then were grace no more grace. I doe much meruayle how that good woorde escaped them.

I thincke that the same chaunsed bicause of the rime, for to make all rime in Atis. For in the first verse there is:

Now do those satisfactions agrée with that that the Lorde promised, sayinge: if the vngodlye will * tourne away from all his sinnes that hée hath done, they shall not be thought vppon any more: Also though our sins shalbe as red as scarlet, purple, or y^• worme that cōmeth * out of the earth, he will make them as white as woll & the Page  [unnumbered] snow, and will caste all our sinnes behinde his backe, and * wyll putte them as farre (as Dauid witnesseth) as the East is from the West, and wyll cast them in the bottome * of the sea.

[ Obiection] Wherefore then reserued he yet paines vnto Dauid, after that the faulte was pardoned * him, insomuch that he was driuen from his kingdome by his owne sonne Absalom? Wherefore punished & chasti∣sed he him, after that the Prophet Nathan had declared vnto him the remission of his sinne?

* When God chastised Dauid, & when he chastiseth vs euery day, bicause of our sinnes, he doth it not so much, for the sinne which hath bene committed, as for to aouertise and admo∣nish vs, that we do not sinne heereafter. And the paine that we beare is not for to satisfie God. For ther is none other * satisfaction then the death & passion of Iesus Christ, that he can allow to be sufficient. For if we must satisfie for our selues, we must beare & cary all the importable burthen of the wrath and iudgement of God. Now if we must beare them, there is none of vs but should haue his shoulders broken, and should be plunged & drowned in the goulfe & bottome of hell with the Diuels. For if the Angels could * not beare it, which of vs shall be sufficient, which are but wormes of the earth? And wherfore did God our good fa∣ther send vs Iesus Christ to helpe vs, but to that end that he would beare it & satisfie for vs, & that thorow his satis∣faction * we should be reconciled vnto God, & deliuered from his iudgement? Seing then that God our father hath the satis•action of Iesus Christ his sonne, which is more then sufficient for vs all, he requireth for vs none other satis∣faction. And if hee require good woorkes of vs, he requireth * them not for satisfaction, for they are too insufficient: But for prayses and giuing of thanckes, and wytnesses of our faith, & of the remembraunce that wee haue of the bene∣fites that hoe hathe gyuen vnto vs in his sonne Iesus Christ, and for to incite our bretheren for to prayse and magniste hym. Therefore sayde Iesus Christe vnto hys Dysciples. Let your lyght so shine before men, that * Page  84 they maye sée your good woorkes and glorifie your Fa∣ther which is in heauen. Hée sayde not to the ende that by them, you shoulde satisfie for your sinnes: or that you shoulde merite the kingdome of heauen, and bée iustyfied. For the faythfull man hath obteyned al∣readye all that by the fayth of Iesus Christe, whiche is * our wisedome, ryghteousnesse, sanctification, thorowe whose merite Paradise is gyuen vnto vs. For that cause the holye Apostle calleth the eternall lyfe, the gift of GOD. Wherefore wée maye vnderstande that we meryte it not thorowe our good déedes, but it is gyuen * vs froelye, thorowe Gods lyberalytie: Euen as the Fa∣thers enheritaunce is gyuen vnto the sonne: not for that he hath deserued it, but bycause that hée pleased hym so, for that hee loued him, and that hée is hys chylde, and wyll gyue hym his goodes fróely. Otherwyse grace * shoulde bée no more grace, but debte. On the contra∣ry, when Saynct Paul did speako of the eternall death, hée * calleth it the wages of sinne: declaringe thereby that man hathe well deserued it, and that hée can deserue none other thinge, but that that wages is due vnto * hym, for a recompence of the seruice that hée hathe done vnto the Diuell, the Prince of this worlde, euen as the wages which is payde vnto a souldyer, for bearynge of weapons vnder hys Capitayne. Wee 〈◊〉 then sée that * the woorkes done by the chyldren of God, and the ser∣uice that the Angelles doo• vnto hym, doe tende all vn∣to one ende, to witte, to glorifie GOD and to sancty∣fie his name. Euen as then the Angelles serue not GOD for to merite Paradyse, of whiche they are al∣readye in possession, neyther for satisfaction of theire sinnes, of whithe they are not entangled: But one∣lye for the loue that they haue in GOD, and the desyre of hys glorye, so Gods electe doe regarde none other thinge, for they are alreadye washed and pur∣ged * from theire sinnes by the bloud• of Iesus Christ, and theyre hearte puryfied by the faythe in hym, Page  [unnumbered] and thorowe the woorde that they haue hearde of hym: And are already possessors of y^e kingdome of heauē in hope: the which is no lesse sure and certeine, then if the thinge were present, and that the Angels are assured of that that they haue. Therefore the holy Apostle sayth, that wee * are saued thorowe hope, and that Iesus Christ doth make vs sitte in the heauenly places. And therefore when God doth chastise and cortect vs in this worlde, that is, as the Apostle also writeth vnto the Corinthians, for to correct and chastise vs, that we should not be damned wyth the worlde and the Infidels: bicause that we are yet in the waye, and * capable of chastisment and ainendement, But there is an other reason after thys lyfe héere, when wee are out of the waye; and néede, and that wee cannot any more empayre nor amend: And therefore the Lorde doth chasten vs héere, as the good Father who beateth not his sonne for to haue * any recompence thereby for the faulte that hée hath com∣mitted: For the paine of the childe bringeth no profite vnto the Father. Also he doth not beat him through rigor nor throughe mallice that hée hath to take vengeaunce of him: For hée loueth him as his childe, and the father∣ly affection maketh him soone forget the faultes and iniu∣ries that he hath done vnto him: As it is cleerely shewed vn∣to vs in the Father of the prodigall childe. *

What hath y^e father then to do to chastise him?

If hée knewe that he woulde neuer doe any more fault he would soone pardon him, without any punish∣ment: But fearing least thorow his great patience • gen∣tlenesse shoulde fall agayne, hee is constrained to beate and chastise him, although that he doe, it not willingly, but it to that ende to make hym more prudent and wyse, and to better aduise himselfe in time to come, and that he take diligent heede not to sall againe in y^• fault or in any other greater. The which is no more to be feared in those whome, GOD hath called from this worlde. Where∣fore they cannot anye more rectius punishment whiche shoulde be to c•n•en them as is y^• same of the father towards Page  85 his child, for to amend him. But if there hée a punishment, * it is rather, to declare the iudgement & the seuerity of God towards the wicked and reprobates, and to manyfest his goodnes and mercy towardes his elect: As the Iudge doth condemne the traytor, murtherer and other malefactors, that haue deserued death, not for to haue any recompence, nor those vnto whom they haue done wronge and iniury. For what recompence can they haue by their deathes? neyther do they it for to cause them to walke in time to come more vprightly, sith that they take from them their life: But for to satisfie righteousnes, and to mayntaine it, to that end that other may take example, and that they may know how auayleable it is to haue followed vertue and eschewed vice.

To what purpose then doth Sainct Iohn * in his reuelation say: Their works do follow them? what workes do follow them, but the good déedes that men doe for them after their death? For those that they haue done whilest they lyued went before, not after. Wherefore it followeth that there are some other which do profit them.

Sainct Iohn speaketh it bycause that their workes do beare witnes that they are the chil∣dren of God. He sayth not other mens workes, but theyr owne workes. For as man lyueth of his owne soule, and not of the soule of an other mans, euen so doth the righte∣ous man of his faith. And as the righteous man lyueth of his faith, & not of the faith of an other, euen so shal eue∣ry one be iudged according to his workes, and not after * those that other men shall doe. For it is written: Euery one shall beare his owne burthen. And therefore Iesus Christ sayth: by thy worde & thou shalt bee iustified: and by thy wordes thou shalt be condemned: That is so saye thy * wordes and thy workes shal beare witnes, of thy heart, and by them thou shalt, bée iuslified, that is to saye, absolued, declared and pronounced iust and righteous: O• by them thou shalt be condem•ned, knowen and iud∣ged worthy of death and condemnation. Not that God Page  [unnumbered] néedeth any witnes of our workes, for to know whether we are worthy of absolution or condēnation. For he kno∣weth y^• hearts, & néedeth none other witnes but his owne. * But y^• scripture vseth such māner of speaking for to apply it to our capacitie, for to manifest & declare vnto vs bet∣ter y^e Iust Iudgemēt of god, which wil shew foorth y^• h•pecri¦•e of mā heart. For mā how wicked soeuer his heart be, he wold alwaies hide it: & if one put it to his own cō•c•éce although y^• he do condemne it, he wil not for y^• leaue off to aduasice & brag he y^• le an honest man, vntil such time as he he také with his wicked déed, as y^• theefe w^t his stea•ing. For he is so peruers & wicked although y^• be be taken w^t the deed, he wil excuse himself: And as y^• shameles whore, is not a shamed to deny y^• which we see w^t our eyes, & hanole w^t our hands: As we haue an example in Came. Although * that he killed his brother, and y^• his handes were yet all blouddy and wette with the bloud that he •ad shed, it see∣meth to heare him speake, that God did vnto him greate miury and wronge, in asking him where he is. And there∣fore God would vanquishe the malyce and peruersitie of mans hearte, and condemne it by the workes that are ma∣nifest, for to declare vnto him, and to make him confesse by the fruite, that he is the roote a•d the tree, to the ende that he may not glorify himself to be the Figge & the O life * tree, when one doth emdently shewe vnto him the thornes & thistles that it hath born. And euen so euery creature is constrayned to acknowledge and conf•sse, that the iudge∣ment of God is iust, and that it consisteth in all truth and equitie. Now the workes y^• men do for vs, after that wee * bee dead, are not ours. Wherefore wee cannot saye, that they follow vs. For it is another matter to bee in the way and iourney, and to haue already ended his iour∣ney and to be arriued at the port, whylest that we are in the course of this present life, he taketh vs as a sree which yet groweth, the which one may dresse and proyne, for to * make him beare fruite. But when he is once cut downe, ther is no more hope, he lieth wher lie falleth, he must tra∣uayle Page  86 no more afterwards. In like maner may we iudge of man. Whilest y^• he is in y^e way, & that he is in his course & * sight, one may aide him by admonitiōs, entreatings & other morkes of charitie, which we owe y^• one to y^• other, whilst y^• we are herein y^e work of god, for vs to helpe the one the other to obteine & win the victory. But after that he hath called vs from the worke in the which he hath set vs, wée must attend and looke no more but for the rewarde and Crowne of righteousenes, the which the righteous Iudge shall giue vnto vs, as Sainct Paul hoped for himselfe, as * we haue fought for him the good fight, and haue fulfilled our course and haue kept the faith vnto the ende: On the contrary, we must looke for feare, confusion, and eter∣nall death, as the slougthfull seruant, vnfaithfull and vn∣grations, we haue hid away and stollen the Talent away * from our Maister, without bringing vnto him any profit. * Therefore Sainct Iohn saith: Bring foorth fruites wor∣thy of repentance: that is to say, thorow which you shewe foorth that truely you repent you of your sinnes, and that you haue amended your euill life. For the are is put vn∣to the roote of the tree, so that euery tree whiche bringeth not foorth good fuite, is hewen downe and cast in to the fire. Uppon that ma•ter Sainct Augustine did writte * vnto Macedonius after this manner: There is no other place for to correct and amende manners, then in this life. * For after this life euery one shall haue that that hee hath gottē here. And in another place he saith: In this world the * mercy of god helpeth those y^• rep•t: But in y^• world to come repētance profiteth not, but we must rīder accompt of our works. Liberty of repētance is only giuen vnto vs in this life, after y^• we be dead there is no more licr̄ce of correctiō. Now is y^• time of mercy, after wards shalbe y^e time of iudg¦ment. And in expoūding those words of Iesus Christ: Hee * which beleeueth not is already iudged, saith after this mā∣ner. The iug•ei•ēt appereth not yet, but y^• iudgemēt is al¦ready done. For y^• Lord knoweth who are his. He know∣eth * those which abyde looking & farryng for the crown, & Page  [unnumbered] those which abyde looking for the fire. Moreouer Sainct Iohn Chusostome speaketh more plainely, confirming that * which I haue said, in such words: Prepare and make rea∣by thy works for the end, and prepare thy self to the way, and if thou haste taken any thing by violence from anye man, restore it againe: and make restitution, and say with * Zachens: if I haue taken from any man by forged cauila∣tiō, I restore him foure fould. If thou art angry with any man, agree with him, before that thou do come vnto iudge∣ment: dispatche here al things, that without let thou mayst sée that Iudictall seate. All the while that wee are here in this world we haue goodly hopes, but assone as we shalbe gone from thence, it lyeth no more in oure power to doe penaunce, nor to deface and put out our sinnes. For after y^e * end of our life, there is no more occasion of merites, no more then there is vnto those y^e play at prises & games, to obtaine crownes and rewardes after that the combat, play and prises are finished and ended. For he which in this present life hath not washed away his sinnes, afterwards he shal finde no consolation. For in hell (as it is written) who shall confesse thee? That is to say, who shall prayse * thee in the graue? And by good reason. For this is the time of the Theators, of Combals, Playes, and Prises: But y^e shalbe the time of the Crownes, rewards and salaryes. Al∣so let vs not thinke when we shall be come thyther, that we shall haue mercy, which do nothing at all, wherefore we ought to haue pardon: No though Abraham, Noe, Iob, and Daniell did pray for vs. Whilest then wee haue time, let vs prepare for our selues great trust and assurance to∣wards God. And Sainct Hierome saith no lesse, confessing that * in the other world. And Sainct Ambrose, is of the same opinion, saying, Dauid required that his sinnes might bee pardoned him before that he departed out of this life. For he that shall not here in this life receaue forgiuenesse of his sinnes, shal not haue it in the other: he shall not haue it bicause he shall not haue the power to come and attaine Page  87 to the eternal life. For y^e forgiuenes of sinnes, is the eter∣nall life. Therfore saith hee: pardon mee O Lorde, that I may bee comforted before that I goo and shall be no more. And therefore I greatly meruatle of that papisti∣call doctrine, which is so repugnant both to the holy scrip¦tures, and to the witnesse of the auncient Doctors of the * Churche. Sainct Cyprian hath written, in the Sermon that he made of the immortalitie, that the faithfull that do dye, haue taken white robes and garments, By which he * meaneth, that they are come to the beatitude and felicitie, and feacheth, that we muste wéepe no more for the dead. Sith that they are alreadie in the estate of felicitie. But me thinkes that the Priestes do not take them to bee as∣sured of the eternall life whom they lodge in their Pur∣gatory, but that from Purgatory, they may yet fall into hell: Or if they vnderstand it not so, wherefore do they sing in the offertory of the Masse for the dead? Domine Iesu Christi &c. That is to say, O Lord Iesu Christ king of glory deliuer the soules of all the faithfull that dye from the paines of hell, and from the déepe lake. Deliuer thē from y^e Lions mouth, least y^e in hell he deuour thē, lest y^e they fal not in y^e obscure & dark places, but y^e S. Michel y^e standard bearer do represent thē into the holy light, which of late thou diddest promise vnto Abraham and to his seed.

Mee thinkes that this is repugnant vnto that which Eusebius hath spoken before, and to that which the Priests do sing, saying: that in hell there is no raunsome nor delyuerance. And yet nenerthelesse, they pray here in that o•fertory, vnto Iesus Christ, that he wil deliuer them from the paines of hell. It must then needes follow, that eyther their prayer is vaiue, and that they demaunde a thing of God which they do very well knew to be im∣possible and contrary vnto his will, or that there is aswel deliuerance in hell as in Purgatory, and that they speake against themselues, or els that hell & Purgatory be al one thing.

Thy disiunetiue is not good. For not, withstanding y^e commonly men take hell for the hell fire Page  [unnumbered] and the place of the dampned, yet neuerthelesse it may bee vnderstanded more amply for y^t low places and cositries, & the estate & condicion of the dead: after this manner, his signification shall comprehende & contrine also the Pur∣gatory, as it doth in this place here.

We muste then expounde it of the paines of hell, that is to say, of the paines of Purgatory.

It cannot be vnderstan∣ded otherwise.

And what shall we vnderstand by the deepe lake?

The very same.

There is then also a lake in Purgatory?

You do well Thomas to be affrayd, Did you ne¦uer here before, how y^e priests did pay y^e seriage for to haue y^e dead passe ouer? It is then necessarye y^e they haue their fery man Charon, for to let passe & repasse y^e soules, aswel * as y^e Panims & Poets had. Now if there be a Charon & a fery man, he cānot carry ouer soules w^tout y^e there is seas lakes, or ryuers, for to caryhis boats, scyfes, ships, barkes & gallies.

But I am greatly abashed wherfore wée do call those that dye, in the french tongue trespasses. Thinke that it was bicause that they were already pas∣sed * from this life in the other. But as farre as I can per∣ceiue it is rather bicause that they haue passed ouer those infernall lakes and reuers.

I doe beléeue that the Christians and true faithfull people haue called their dead trespasses: signifiyng by y^t same that the death of the faithfull is no death, but only a passage for to enter into life, & those which are dead * in y^e faith of Iesus Christ, according to his promises, are passed from death to life. And therfore they are rightly cal∣led trespasses bicause y^e they are already passed ouer, & are come vnto the port of health, in which they rest in ioy and consolation w^c Iesus Christ their Lorde, hauing escaped all the daūgers, & the great gculfes of y^e sea of this world, * of sinne, death & hell. But sithence y^e the pope hath begun to reign in stéed of Iesus Christ, & y^e he hath take the office of Pluto y^e god of hel, & of Eacus, Minos, Rhadamantus, and Neoptolemus y^e infernal iudges, as a newe king, hée Page  88 would chaūge y^e laws, estates, habitations & māners of h∣uing of his subiects y^e be dead, aswel as of those y^• be aliue, * & endeuoreth himselfe w^c all his power & strength to abo∣lish & put out y^e laws, ordinances, institutions, holy Canōs & inuiolated decrées, which Iesus Christ hath giuen aswel to y^e liuing as to y^e dead by his prophets & apostles, passed, confirmed, ratefied & sealed by the arrest of the celestiall & beauenly court & by the great counsell & wisedome of god, of the holy trinitie of y^e father, the sonne & the holy ghost, of all the angels & archangels, Saincts & Sainctes, patri∣arkes, apostles, Euangelists, Martirs, Confessors & Mir∣gins, to the end y^• the faithful w^cout any other, should haue place in heauen, in earth & in hell.

He woulde * do vnto Iesus Christ, as the Romaine Emperors, & the Popes haue done many times the one against the other, making frustrate, & boyd y^e which their predecessors haue made & ordeined. For in asmuch as they haue made Iesus Christ the first pope, & S. Peter y^e seconde, I thinke, y^e it see∣meth good vnto thē, y^e aswell they maye abrogate & make boide their ordinances, as they haue done those of other Popes their predecessors, changing most ofcē times y^e that the first haue ordeyned, & making frustrate their counsels & decrées, especially sithence y^e time of pope Stephen, who made boide al y^e which Formosus his predecessor had don. * But they do in that great wrong vnto Iesus Christ that sithēce he is risen againe there are so many popes risen vp in his place. For they wil not suffer that one should choose another whilst they are aliue: or if that be done, they call him antipope y^e is chosen in spite of their bearde, and hold for scisinaticks aswel him as those that haue chosen him & which are Ioyned w^c him. They call him antipope who setteth himself against him whē they estéeme to be y^e * true pope, eue as we set antichrist against Christ. Sith thē y^e Iesus Christ is rise frō death he is immortal, & shall dye no more, but shal abiee & dwel eternally w^t his churche, of which he is y^e only head, according to y^• promise y^• hee hath made to his disciples, saying: beld I am with you vntill Page  [unnumbered] the ende of the world: For asmuch also as that great hea∣••nly father, of whom proceedeth all fatherly loue y^• is cal∣led * y^• olde aged, of whom Daniel speaketh off, he hath gi∣uen vnto him al iudgment, power & seigniory both in hea∣uen & in earth, & hath made him to be called by his pro∣phet, the father of the world to come, Prince of peace, wil∣ling y^• in y^• name of Iesus should euery knee how, both of * things in heauen & things in earth and thinges vnder the earth, I am greatly abashed frō whence this ouer boldnes & rashnes should proceed to create & those other popes then he, sith y^• he is alwayes aliue, & y^• he is the Lord of y^• quick and of the dead, and his kingdome hath nene ende.

They cannot denie but that they are al An∣tipopes. That is to say contrary and enemies to the true Hope, & so consequently heritickes and schismatickes. For sith y^• Iesus Christ is the true Christ, & true Pope, that is * to say, the father of y^• Christian Church, it followeth that they are Antichrists & Antipapes of the churche of Iesus Christ, & true & lawful Popes of y^• of Antichrist. y^• which hath not onely of trepasse but also passed, repassed & tre∣passed, which neuer shall finde rest. For they must firste passe into Purgatory, & after repasse, for to put them out, & againe to passe all ouer for to put them in the Popes * paradise. But as slowly as they can, when they can gette no more money. Wherefore it must needes be y^• there are lakes & ryuers, at the least, insomuch as y^• Poets doe de∣clare * it, sith that we must so much passe and repasse.

But how can y^• fire & water agrée together if * there are so many riuers & deepe waters, it seemeth to me y^• it is great folly, to cast y^• holy water vpō y^• graues, & vpō y^• dead, sith that they haue such slore below with them. If * I were below in Durgatory within that fire. which is so hot & burning, I would finde the meanes, if it were possi∣ble, to get me neere vnto those riuers, & would plunge my selfe therein, as a Ducke and a Coote.

I would not that the Priests should sing & pray for mee, that I might be deliuered from y^• deepe lake, Page  89 for I had rather to be a fish, and to dwell therein alwaies.

Thou cause be no better at thine ease. For thou shalt be alwayes in the fresh water, and maist drinck when thon wilt.

That should be a goodly pastime for y^• drunckardes, if those slouds were of wine, & for those that dwell vpon the mountaines, if it were of milke, as in the time of Saturne, and in the time of the golden Age, if the * witnesse of the Poets be true. But I rather feare that those are not alwaies that, as the Poets haue sayd, and that one cannot alwaies attribute vnto them their auncient names: Although that the Pope raigneth there in stéede of Pluto. For the one is called, Lethe, y^• is to say, obliuion: An other Acheron, that is to say, without Ioy: An other Stix, that is to say, sadnesse: An other Cocytus, that is to say, mourning and lamentation: An other Phlegeton, that is to saye, heate. Now what other thing can there be in the Popes Purgatory, if it be such as they haue described vnto vs. I finde it in nothing to differ from the Poeticall hels. Wher∣fore they doe no great wrong, if they do sing: Deliuer them from the déepe lake, and from the Lyons mouth. Syth that that roaring Lyon is there, it must of force bée that it is hell. But they fayle in this that they haue not directed their prayer vnto the Pope, and hys, which haue caste the soules therein and holde them there, and not vnto Iesus Christ, who handeleth not so cruelly those of his faythfull seruauntes. But truely those which wyll not drincke of the fountaine ef life of our Sauiour Ies•s, and of hys goodlye * swéete riuers, which are more sweeter then either wine or milke, are well worthy to drincke of those bile and stincking papisticall Cesterns, and to be plunged and drowned in those pits and infernall lakes, and to lyue in the yron Age.

Thou blamest the Sophisters, but I neuer * sawe a greater Sophister nor greater slaunderer. When the Priests doe pray that Iesus Christe woulde delyuer the soules from the déepe lake, is it not easie to be vnder∣standed, that they speake not of a lake full of water, but that woorde is taken by translation and comparison, Page  [unnumbered] for to declare and shew foorth y^• depth of y^• miseries in which sinne leadeth the poore sinners?

But hath not Iesus Christ thorow y^• bloud of his testament, deliuered all the true Christians from those broken pits that wyll holde * no water, euen as he hath brought the children of Israell from the bottome of their captiuitie and misery, accordinge to the prophesie of Zachary? dost thou thincke that Zachary hath lyed?

Thou doest call me sophister and slaunderer, but if thou finde that that I do say so straunge, I would gladly knowe of thée out of what floud came the soule, which the fishermen of the Byshop Tibaud dyd take in a net in steede of a fish?

Truely I now per∣ceiue * that thou doest mocke men too plainely.

If I mocke, thou must then impute the fault to that great Doctour Barleta, of the order of the preaching Fryers, who hath written that goodly example, in his Ser∣mon * that he made of the paines of Purgatorye, and sayde moreouer that the fisher men dyd bring that net vnto the Byshop, vnto whom the soule cryed: Praye for me in thy masses, to whom the Byshop demaunded, what art thou? * the soule aunswered: I am a soule that haue accomplished héere my penaunce. And as soone as he had caused a trentall of Masses to be song for it, it was deliuered from hir paines. Now what doest thou thincke, how was that soule brought thether? I can coniecture none otherwise but that it did swim bpon the top of the water, as the Troutes, Salmons and Eles, & many othe• fishes doo, which go against the swéet water, and do depart from the sea and lakes, for to enter into the riuers. For I doubt not, but that there is stinc∣kinge mudde, myre and durte in those papisticall lakes, and that the water is verye muche corrupted, salt and bytter, * wherefore I am not much estonished, if that the soules haue such great desire to depart out of those stincking Cesterns, for to refresh themselues and to drawe of the water, in the sountaines of our sauiour Iesus Christ, and in those ple∣saunt riuers and flouds of that delicious and pleasaunt garden, wherein the golden age continueth for euer, and Page  90 of that goodly Paradyse, the whiche God hathe planted, * and in the myddest of which hée hath sette the trée of life, for to make vs pertakers of his immortalitie. And as for mée, whatsoeuer Sophister thou call mée, yet I coulde not gyue better solucion to my question: nor I knowe not whether in Sorbonne, one myght finde a more fitter. But leaste thou shouldest not thincke that I doe speake wythout authoritie, I wyll alledge vnto thée the wytnesse * of the Poets, and the same of Cicero, who alledgeth that he fauoureth greatly the history of Barleta, and the expo∣sition that I haue made vppon the same. Marke then the * horrible and sharpe verses, that those soules which depar∣ted from hell did speake, as some man hath translated it into our tongue.

From the infernall lake I came, and grisly goulfe of hell, Where soules in fire & brimstone plungd, in endlesse tromēts dwell. Thus hauing passed Acheron that foule and stincking sloud, And eke escaped Gerberus the dog that is so woode, Vpon the sharpe rockes creepe I must, and doe by penaunce so, (Till time I haue sulfilde the same) in pangs of paine and vvo.

Thou doest heare the language that the same soule did speake, although that Cicero did mocke of those fictions and of such a heape of fooles, who demaunded a forme & shape of the soules, and did thincke that they did retourne. Upon which he saith: From thence by his accompt the lake of A∣uernus * is not farre off, from whence some do saye that the soules doe come in a blacke shadow, after that the gate of Acheron is opened: and that from thence came foorth the Images and figures of the dead men, with false bloude. Notwythstandinge the same they woulde that those Ima∣ges and visions shoulde speake: the which they cannot doe, without a tongue, mouth and throate, or wythout strength & figure of lyuer & ribs. And although they sée no∣thing by apprehension of vnderstāding they would y^• those fi∣gures of the dead, should be represented before their eies. Al∣though y^• Cicero rebuked y^• opiniō of those, yet neuerthelesse they do not accord very euil w^t y^• theology of your Doctours. Page  [unnumbered] Wherefore thou oughtest to coutent thy selfe with my so∣lution: or if thou wilt haue a better, propound the question in Sorbonne, and if the Doctors cannot absolue it, let them condemne the bookes of Barleta, and of other lyke dreamers, * & forbid the Moonkes to reade their Sermons full of blas∣phemy, rather then the holy Scriptures, and the bookes that they iudge to be full of heresies, onely bycause that they doo contayne truth, and which condemne their abuse.

They will not doe so. For the other do cause * the water to come better to their mil. Moses witnesseth that Pyson, the one of the foure flouds of the terrestryall Pa∣radise, bringeth golde with his waues: But those will haue nothing to doe with the flouds of Paradise, nor of the golde that they bringe, which is a great deale more precious then * that which they drawe from their internal flouds, y^e which they preferre before those, bicause of the greate riches and treasures that they drawe there out.

There is no Prince vpon the earth, whiche getteth or draweth so much out of the flouds nor mines, as * they haue. That is none of the golde which Tagus the floud of Portingale bringeth with his sandes: Or Pactolus of Lydia: Or Ganges of India: Or Hebrus of Thracia: Or Padus of Italy: Or Orcus, whiche is in the country of Tau∣rine in Piedmont. All the golde that those flouds haue is nothing in comparisō of that that they catch in their inter∣nall floudes: which cause the whéeles of their Mill to turne about very well. In very déede they haue an Orcus which is more fertile in golde then that of Piedmont. And y^e name * agréeth with it very well. For Orcus signifieth hell, from whence those flouds arise, whiche cannot ioyne themselues with those flouds of the terrestryall Paradise, no more then Eurotos with Peneus, that goodly floude of Thessaly, which cannot abide nor suffer that the execrable waters of that stincking floud, engendred wyth paines and torments, should be mingled wyth his siluer flouds: But they must swimme aboue him, as Oyle, and after y^e he hath carryed him a little, he driueth him farre from him.

Those héere would as well mingle the waters * of their stincking Cesterns, with the water of life: But it agréeth not together. For Iesus Christe cannot abide nor suffer that, but casteth it farre from him. Wherfore I doubt verye much, that as he hath already kindled his fire, which hath burned Purgatory, that he will also repulse those ri∣uers and lakes, and that he will cause them that they shall * not swell ouer as a flud doth his waters, for to quench and put out that little fire which shall be there left.

they ought a great deale more to feare that flud, then the drowning and ouerflowing of Tiber, whiche * was like to haue drowned Rome. For when it runneth o∣uer, it will carry away both the castle of Sainct Ange, the Pope and his Popedome and all the Romish Babilon. Wherefore it is no meruaile though they feare those euan∣gelicall * waters, and endeuour themselues to keepe their filthy internall puddles, and infectious and stincking welles. For that is all the force and riches of their kingdome. The flud Nilus which ouerfloweth the land of Aegypt, & which maketh their fields fruitful and fat, and bringeth vnto them great aboundance and increase of wheate and other corne by the mudde, filth, fat ground, dunge and fatnesse that it bringeth with it, is not so fertile nor profitable vnto y^e Ae∣gyptians, which inhabit in the land of Aegypt, as vnto vs new Aegyptians. Wherefore if the Aegyptians take such paine about their flud Nilus, and haue their Nilometres, that is to say, the mesurers of y^e flud Nilus, which haue y^e charge to measure it, for to know whether it encrease much or lit∣tle, we must not be estonished, if those heere doe so trauayle after theirs.

Wherefore doe they that?

Bicause that if that Nilus do not encrease but twelue cubytes, then they haue the famine in Aegypt: by∣cause that if all their groundes are not watred and moy∣sted through the ouerflowinge of the same, those whiche are not couered are as the sande, and wyll brynge foorth no fruite. For it rayneth not in Summer, and all their Page  [unnumbered] felicitie and riches, dependeth vpon Nilus. As Moses decla∣red * vnto the Israelites, comparinge Aegypt vnto the lande of Canaan. If the floud Nilus arise vppe xiif. cubites, yet there shall be tamishment in Aegypt. If it encrease xiiif. cubites, it bringeth ioye: if xv. it bringeth assurednesse: if it encrease xvf. cubites, it bringeth delightes and pleasures. For they haue such store and aboundaunce of corue and other goodes, that all is plentifull. On the contrarye, if it * encrease aboue measure, they cannot sowe, bicause that the water tarryeth so longe that the earth wyll not bée drye to bée tylled: But when it encreaseth by measure, they make greate chéere, takynge care for nothinge, and therefore they haue those Nilometres whiche measure the hyght and depth of those waters, and if they knowe that it aryseth not hygh ynoughe, for to water all the earthe, they make it to be knowen through out all the Townes and Cyties, afterwardes euery one maketh dykes and * trenches for to make it the easier to runne all abrode. If they knowe to the contrary, that it wyll swell and ryse vp to hye, and that throughe hys greate aboundaunce of hys waters it wyll let and hynder to sowe and tyll the earth, they make greate rampers and walles rounde aboute it for to kéepe it in, and to cause it to runne more slowelye. Nowe therefore doubte not, but that our Aegyptians are as wyse in their generations, and that they knowe as well that practise, for to prouide and foresee to theire Niles and flouddes, whiche cause the water to come to theire Milles, from which all their fertilities and ryches do pro∣céede, and wyth which they fishe and catche the goulde, of which yet neuerthelesse they can neuer be satisfied. For * they are as a goulfe of the sea, in which these ryuers dooe emptie themselues, & yet they can neuer fill the sea. These * are the dikes of their castles & Lordships wherin doth con∣sist all their fortresse, of which none can approch nigh vnto thē, wythout béeing fore afraide & in great daunger of kil∣ling & drowning. For those y^e wyll approch as enemyes, for to assalt them, shal finde those flouds altogether •ull of sul∣fure Page  92 & fire, & more whotter & burning then y^e internal floud Phlegetō. Those which do passe ouer thē, for to yeelde them∣selues vnto thē, shal finde thēselues more miserable & vnhap∣py. For first of al they must passe y^e floud Lethe, which signifi∣eth * obliuion: bicause that it is necessarye, that those which giue themselues vnto them for to drinike of the stincking water of their doctrin & traditions, forget God & his word, & * serue him in vayn. Wherfore frō thece they must come vnto Acheron, which causeth all those that passe ouer it to lose all their ioye and myrth. For sith that the kingdome of God is * righteousnesse, peace, and ioye in the holy Ghost, what peace * & ioye can those haue who haue forgotten and forsaken God, the fountaine of the water of life, & the sea of all good∣nesse, for to come & drincke of those muddye and stincking * welles that wyll holde no water? Sith that then in that Acheron, one shal lose all ioy & mirth, they must of necessi∣tie come vnto the other flouddes, to wyt, Stix, which sig∣nifteth * sorrowfulnesse, & to Cocytus which signifieth mour∣ning: and vnto Phlegeton which signifieth heate and bur∣ning. For sith that the holy Ghost is called the comforter: ioye nor consolation cannot bée but there where hée is, and where he hath shed abroade the waters and droppes of his grace. And therefore who can haue his conscience which is depriued frō that comforter. but sorrowfull & ful of perpetual mourning? What greater heat & burning can ther be in hel, then is in the consciences of those which haue abā∣doned Christ, for to serue Antechrist, & for to follow his doc∣trine & traditions? For that is a very hell vnto the conscy∣ence: and it is not possible that those which are addicted and giuen vnto his seruice, can euer be refeshed & filled. For that Aegypt is not watred nor sprinkled with y^e dewes & flouds of heauen, no more then y^e other Aegypt w^c the water from heauen in sommer: & hath nothing in it but these filthinesse & puddels, y^e which it doth estéeme more then y^e goodly faire & cleere water: it preferreth it selfe vnto the lande of Ca∣naan, the whiche yet neuerthelesse Moses estéemed more then that of Aegypt: sayinge vnto the Israelites: Page  [unnumbered] The lande whether thou goest to possesse it, is not as the * lande of Aegypt whence thou camest out, where thou sowedst thy seede: And wateredst it with thy féete as a gar∣den of hearbes: But the lande whether ye goe ouer to pos∣sesse, it is a lande of hyls and valleys, and drincketh water of the raine of heauen. They had rather wyth great tra∣uaile torment themselues after and aboute those marysses and lowe groundes, then to attend and receyue the blessing from heauen. And therefore they can neuer finde rest nor consolation in their consciences, but abide alwayes in doubt, perpleritie, trouble and anguish.

That is the very same that they desire. For Antechriste hath his fishers, altogether differinge and con∣trary vnto those of Iesus Christ, who desire not but trou∣bled waters, bicause that then their fishing is a great deale * better. Iesus Christ said vnto his Apostles, and Disciples: I will make you fishers of men: Bicause that hée woulde sende them, for to drawe men, by the nets and cordes of the preaching of the Gospel, out and from the sea of this world, and from the goulfes of sinne, death and hell, for to leade them vnto the port of health & safetie, and vnto Iesus Christ their Sauiour. The other fisher men take fishes for to kill and eat them. But these are sent for to retire & pluck back men from death vnto life, and from the perils and daūgers of the sea and goulfes of hell, for to lead, present and bring them all aliue vnto Iesus Christ. On the contrarye, Ante∣christ * hath his Apostles and fishers, not of men, but of golde and of siluer: or if they do catch men, that is after the man∣ner and sorte as the fishers catch the fishes for to kill, eate & sell them.

If they be not fishers of men, they are fishers of soules. Wherfore I would coūsaile them, sith * that they know to take them in their nets as fishes, that in sléede of their masses, vigilles and suffrages, they woulde buy fishe lepes, nettes and hookes for to catche and fish for soules.

They haue no néede of thy counsaile. For they haue bene prouided of such instrumentes longe agone, Page  93 that if it be possible there shal not one soule escape, but that it shalbe intrapped and caught in their nettes, which they haue layd forth on euery side. What other thing are all * their prayers for the dead, their Idoles and ceremonies, but bytings, Hookes, Nettes and engyns, for to catche and take men, as the Fisshers take the Fisshes? or the Spiders the little Flyes with their copwebbes?

Therfore it is very necessarie for them to haue a great many of Ni∣lomitres & seruants, for to take good héede to their riuers, sith y^e there are so many Fishers, & whiche haue so many nets & engyns. For it is to be feared greatly, y^e if their Nile and their bloudy waters of Aegypt should ouerflowe, a∣rise * and swell to much, that it woulde quenche and put out the fire, that they kéepe yet in their Purgatory, aswell as the ouer great fire that they made there, hath burned the walles and chambers that were there, and least the same should hinder and let their sowings and reapings in har∣uest. On the contrary, if those fluddes decrease and dry vp, it is greatly to be feared, but that they will bringe dearth and famine, for many causes and reasons. For merchants nor merchandise cannot come no more vnto them. After∣wardes it is to be feared, least the Israelites whome they * hold in captiuitie in Aegypt, shall escape them, if God dry∣eth vp the red Sea, for to giue issue and passage vnto his people: or least their Babilon should be taken, as Cirus and Darius tooke y^e of the Chaldeans, after that they had founde the meanes to turne the riuer Euphrates, which entred in∣to * the same, for to giue free passage vnto their souldiers & hoste of men: the which they placed within Babilon, there where the course of the water was, and did take it in the night, whilest that the king Balthazer with his Princes, curtisans and concubines did banquet & make good chere, * and celebrated the feast of his gods.

They may well repayre theyr dykes, and * forteāe themselues asmuch as they can: But yet neuerthe∣lesse they shall take them neuer the sooner. For it is ne∣cessary y^t the prophecie which Esay prophecyed against the Page  [unnumbered] Aegyptians be accomplyshed vppon them, and vppon all * their Fishers, and vppon those which lyue about their ri∣uers, and which make y^e instruments of Idolatry & super∣sticion.

What is that Prophecie?

Giue eare, and you shall see whether it agréeth not well to our matter. The water of the Sea (sayth hée) shall bée drawne out, Nilus shall sinke away, and be dronken vp.

The riuers also shall be drawen out, and the wells shal de∣creace * and dry away. Réede and Rush shall fayle, the grasse by the waters side or vppon the riuers banke, yea, * and whatsoeuer is sowen by the waters, shall be wythe∣red, destroyed and brought to nought. The fisshers shall mourne, all such as cast angels in the water shall com∣playn and they that spred their nettes in the water shalbe faynt hearted. Such as labour vpon Flare and Silke, shal come to pouertie, and they also that weaue fine workes. And all those which doe make pondes and stewes for the lyuing soules shall be sorrowfull for their nettes.

It is not possible, to finde out a prophecie which better agreeth with them. For this heere maketh mention of waters, of Fisshers of Flare workers, of makers of nettes, of makers of pondes and stewes, in which they doe keepe and holde fast the lyuing soules, as the fisshers doe keepe their fishes in their stewes and fish pents. It maketh also mention of their instruments & of the worke∣men that make them, y^e they feare nothing lesse least that the preaching of the Gospell should drye vp those riuers, as Demetrius & those of his sect greatly feared, y^e thorow * the preaching of Paul, the honour of Diana the great god∣desse of the Ephesians should be diminished, & their gayne with hir. Therefore they are not to be blamed although they loke to it so diligently. It in more then time that the vertue of God doth shew foorth it self, for to deliuer his poore people, from the handes of so many fishers which plunge & drown so many poore soules through their lakes & puddles. Those are terimen & marrincrs which do drowne all those * which enter into their boates & ships. For they haue not Page  94 Iesus Christe with them, which causeth the windes & tem∣pests * to be calme & to cease, & which causeth alwaies a safe landing and port.

And therefore it shoulde be more reasonable that we should cry after him as y^e Apostles * did, saying: Lord saue vs: & that we should make our prayer vnto God, that he would deliuer vs from that déepe take, & al those that be aliue, then to sing for the dead. For if Dauid & the other seruauntes of God did complaine themselues to haue bene drowned in the lakes of tribulation and mysery, * & that the waters haue enuironed & couered them ouer the head, wée haue no lesse occasson to complayne. Esay desi∣ring to signifie the misery & tribulation which should come vnto Hierusalem and to all the lande of Iuda by the army of Sennacherib, sayth that she shall be enuironed wyth wa∣ters vp to the throate: And vseth such comparison for to let them to vnderstand that the same army shal destroy and co∣uer all the land, euen as Euphrates did couer and destroy * that lande of Assyria, when it ouerflowed: making compa∣rison by the souldiers & host vnto y^e riuer, bicause that both the one and the other doe passe through one lande. But Hierusalem was neuer so afflicted nor oppressed by the vy∣olent waues of the armye of the Assyrians, as the poore Church is troden downe and oppressed by that great Ro∣mish Sennacherib and his army, whiche is innumerable * throughout all the whole worlde, as the sande of the sea. But we haue spoken inough of the Lake: It resteth now to absolue the doubte which I haue alreadye begun. For∣asmuch (friende Eusebius) as you say, that that hell and déepe lake, of which mencion is made of it in y^e affertory for the dead, is taken for purgatory, what doth y^• signifie which is spoken off afterwards: Deliuer thē from y^e lyons mouth, least that hell do not deuour them: I beleeue y^e they vnder∣stand by y^e Lyon none other but the Dyuel, who as S. Peter * witnesseth is our enemy, & walketh about séeking whom he may deuour. But sith y^e the soule is separated from y^e body, how can it be deliuered frō y^e mouth of y^• roring & denouring lyon, if y^e soule be of a reprobate, which dieth out of y^• saith of Page  [unnumbered] Christ, who shal deliuer it from his throte, when God hath giuen it him? And if it be of a faithfull man, Iesus Christe who is the strong and inuincible Lion, of the tribe of Iu∣da * who hath had the victory ouer that Lion which is ad∣uersary and enemy vnto God, hath he not already deliue∣red it? hath not he killed and prohibited the mouth of that * hungry Lion, as a true Sampson and Dauid, in such sorte that he hath no more teeth nor fanges, for to deuoure the childen of God whom the Lord Iesus holdeth, as the Ly∣on his pray, to whome none dareth to come nigh, as Esay * hath written, that the Lord kéepeth Hierusalem and his e∣lect people. Also I thinke it not much vnméete if we make such prayer for those that be a liue, the which Iesus Christ hath taught vs to pray and say: And lead vs not into temp∣tation, * but deliuer vs from euill. And hee him selfe hath made the prayer vnto God his Father, for his discyples, as * witnesseth Sainct Iohn. He saith not, I pray thee that thou wouldest deliuer them from euill after this life: nor saith, I pray not, that thou wouldest take them out of y^e world? * but that thou wouldest kéepe them from all euill. Also S. Peter doeth not exhort vs to abstaine from meates, to bée sober, watche and pray, and to arme vs with faith againste that roaring Lion, for those that be dead, but for our selues * whilest that we be a liue, to the ende we may auoyd his mouth, for to come vnto that holy light which he hath pro∣mised vnto Abraham and vnto his seede. For according to your doctrine, sith that the soule is seperated from the body, if man hath not had here remission of his sinnes be∣fore his death, he cannot haue it after. And if he haue it in this life, he goeth either into Paradise or into Purgatory. If he be in Paradise, it is no more to bee feared that hell can swallow him vp. If he bée in Purgatory, although that according to your opinion, he be in paynes, yet neuerthe∣lesse you confesse that he is past the danger of damnation, and that he is sure of his saluation. Wherefore I vnder∣stand not, howe that prayer can agrée with the worde of God, and the doctrine of the auncient doctors, & your owne Page  95 For you speake against your selfe. If that prayer doth pro∣fit * the soules of the dead in the other life, it must then bée, that ther is yet great hope, either to merit or not to merit, and a place to do good or euill, as in this mortal life, and to be damned or saued.

There is great difference. For in this life man may merit or not merit of him selfe: But after he is dead he can do no more for him selfe, but others may do it for him? And the merites of those that bee alyue doe serue him to saluation.

And so by that meanes, Iesus Christe shalbe a Sauiour neither of the lyuing nor of the dead: & the merite of his death and passion, shall saue neither the one nor the other, but the lyuing shall saue themselues, du∣ring their life? and after their death, others that shalbe thē alyue, shal saue them especially the Priestes and Moonks, By that meanes, we haue many sauiours, and men should neuer be certaine nor sure of their saluation, neither before their death nor afterwards, whiche is a thing altogether contrarie to the doctrine of the scriptures.

And if I would maintaine, that those which are in hell, can be somewhat deliuered from the pains ther∣off, eyther by the prayers and good déedes of the liuing, or * bicause of the good deedes that they themselues haue done during their life, that should be a strange thing vnto thée. What wouldest thou aunswere to that? Haue wee not the witnes of a great many histories and good doctours, wor∣thy to be beleeued, which certefie vs, how that Sainct Gre∣gory deliuered Traianus the Emperour from the paines * of hell, who notwithstanding did put to death many of the Christians, and namely Sainct Ignacius the discyple of S. Iohn * the Euangelist. It is in like manner written in the life of the fathers, that Sainct Machaire deliuered a priest being a Panim, who affirmed vnto him that he was dam∣ned. And in the life of sainct Brandon we read that hee did sée Iudas, which walked by the meadowes, of whom he as∣ked the cause, wherefore he was not in hell: who aunswe∣red Page  [unnumbered] him bicause of the good deedes that he did in his life time, he had therefore some solace and comfort.

If Thou canst no better confirme my sen∣tence, nor better proue that your doctrine is altogether vn∣certeine, variable, inconstant and gamesayinge it selfe. For hast thou not alreadie confessed vnto me, that the priestes do not praye for the dampned, bicause that there is no deli∣uerance from hell, and from the fire of hell? Consider I pray thée, how that agreeth with those goodly fables, & with that which thou meanest now to speake off. *

If you had read diligently the bookes of the good auncient doctors, and especially of Saint Thomas, you might easely make all these places agrée. For they do al∣ledge foure opinions & reasons for to satisfie suche doubts. The first is, that Traianus was raysed thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory, and that he dath done penance in this life, thorowe the which he meryted grace and pardon of his sinnes. Wherefore he is dead in the grace of God, and hath bene saued, and this is the best allowed opinion of y^e doctors. The second is, that the soule of Traianus was not simplye deliuered from the paine and fault thereof, but that his paine was suspended and delayed, vntill the daye of iudgement, and afterwardes shalbe saued. The thyrd opinion is that Gregory deliuered him, not from the place of hell, but from the paine. The fourth, which is also best allowed among all the other, that the soule of Traianus was deliuered from the paines of hell, and hath obtayned mercie thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory: the which thing was done, not after the common law, but after the disposition and dispensation of the wisdome and proui∣dence of God, who did foresee that Sainct Gregory should pray for him. Wherefore it hath not dampned it by or through diffinitiue sentence, but by a sentence suspenciue: The which thing hath bene a perticuler priuiledge. For Sainct Hierome saith, that the priuiledges are but for a * fewe people, and not for all. For the priuiledges of a fewe are not lawes common to all: And the things which go out Page  96 of square from the common lawe, ought not to bee dra∣wen into a consequence.

I thinke that that is the priuiledge whiche * is written in the Aeneados of Virgill, the which Cyble recited, speaking to Aeneas after this manner.

Beholde the priuiledge of that good doctor, whiche peraduenture Iupiter, in whom Traianus did beléeue, gran∣ted vnto him.

I do greatly meruayle, both of Thomas of Aquin, and of other questionarie doctors, whiche haue taken suche great paines for to couler and set foorth a fa∣ble. It must be that they haue had very much leasure, and that they were not muche occupied about other better af∣faires. They would sooner haue giuen a more true and cer∣teine solution, if they had by and by answered, that they re∣ceiued not such fables: as some of their owne secte haue done, namely our maister Iohn Maioris the Scotte, the whiche I haue heretofore heard reade in the Colledge of * Mountaigu. Hee reiecteth without making anye doubt, both the history of Sainct Machaire, and also that of S. Brandon. As touching that same of Traians, although that he alledge the common solutions of other doctors: yet ne∣uerthelesse he first doth aunswer, that he knoweth not from whence that history had his first beginning: the which hath no certaine author: not withstanding that some doe attri∣bute it vnto Iohn Damascenus. But how shoulde hee haue * written it, sith that according to their owne witnesses and chronicles, he raigned long time before that saint Gregory lyued, and was dead before that Sainct Gregory was Page  [unnumbered] borne. For their chronicles do witnes, that Damascenus florished in the years of our Lord 440. And that he was very familier with the Emperour Theodosius. The which yet neuerthelesse I beléeue not: For by that account, he had lyued in the time of Sainct Ambrose, & neuerthelesse there is great differēce betweene his bookes and these of Sainct Ambrose. For these of Sainct Ambrose are a great deale * purer, & keepe a great deale better the puritie of y^t aunciēt church. But peraduenture they meane the young Theo∣doseus, which rayned after Honorius. Although that it be so, by their owne Chronicles, he was before the time of Gregory, about 152. yeares. For they do write that Gregory reigned in the yeare. 592.

It must néeds be then, that either the Chroni∣cles are false, or y^e witnes of those y^e do make Damascenus the author of that fable: Except peraduenture they will say that thorow the spirite of prophecie, he hath foreshewed that deliuerance, which Gregory ought to doe, touching the soule of Traianus.

I knowe not what their prophecies are, but I neuer in all my lyfe did sée nor heare a thing wherin was lesse reason, assurance & incerteinly, then in that pa∣pisticall doctrine. For it consisteth but in mane opinions. But how do those fables agrée with that that they them∣selues * alledge of Sainct Augustine, who by their owne witnesses should say: If I did know that my Father were in hell, I would pray no more for him then for the diuell. Wherefore then haue S. Gregory and S. Machair pray∣ed for the dampned? And when the Priestes do pray vnto * Iesus Christ that he deliuer the soules, least that hel should deuoure them and that they should not fall into the darke and obscure places, in what place doe they vnderstande that the soules, for whom they make that request, ought * to bee? Sith that they make request that hell do not deuour them, they do then vnderstand and meane, that they are not in hell. But when they admoreouer, that they fall not in∣to the darke and tenebrous places, they declare therby, that Page  97 they ought to be in a place, from which they may not fall. Now, what is that place? Is it Paradise?

No * verely. For those that are there, are alreadye all assured, that they shall neuer fall.

No, except you are of that opinion that the soules may yet sinne in Para∣dise, as the Angelles and Adam, in the terrestriall Para∣dise, * and that God did throwe them headlonge into hell, as the wicked Angelles: or that he dyd driue them out of Paradise, as Adam. But I beléeue thou art not of that opinion, friende Eusebius, for thou shouldest speake against all the good auncient Doctours, and the doctrine of the catholike Church, who doe preferre the worke of mannes redemption, to the same of his creation, in that that man hath bene so created of God, that he could sinne: But he hath after such sort redéemed it, that his elect can neuer perish nor sinne after they be in Paradise.

It is very true.

In what place then are those soules? Thou wylt not saye that they are * in the Limbe? For according to your owne doctrine that same of the fathers is emptie, and as touching the other there goeth none thether but the little children that bée borne dead, for whom you doe no more praye, then for the dampned? For you hope no more that they can come out from thence, 〈◊〉 more thē tho dampned can come from hel. Wherefore there resteth no more but Purgatory. Nowe * if those soules are in Purgatorye, it muste bée that they haue some solace, and some lyght, as in Paradise: or o∣therwise, wherefore doe they praye, that those soules doe not fall into the obscure and darke places, if they be there already? We will yet come againe vnto my first matter: and thou shalt be compelled to confesse that Paradise and Purgatory is all one thing: Or that you doe praye for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise, and for those which are at rest: or at the leastwise, that the soules which are already tormented in Purgatory, maye yet fall more dée∣per into hell & y^• darke places. And so by that reason, they are yet in daunger of dampnation, which is contrarye to Page  [unnumbered] your own doctrine.

I am greatly estonished, friēd Theophilus, what reason you can finde out of all reason: and what certeintie you search, besides the woord of God, which is onely certayne? What foundation shall you finde in dreames? For all that that they saye and do tou∣ching the dead, and all their doctrine, what other thing is it but dreames and lyinges? which haue neither spiryte nor iudgement. Is not that a Theology altogether come of the Panims? for of all those thinges haue they lear∣ned any one sillable of Iesus Christ? Wherfore, I would, sith that they will not followe but their owne fantasie, the opinions of men, and of the Idolaters, and that they haue no regarde of the holy Scriptures, that they would not at the leastwise onely followe the euyll, but also the * good, that they haue taught. Plato that great and worthy Philosopher, hath set foorth thrée kindes of righteous∣nesse: The one towardes God: an other towardes men, and the thirde towards the dead. But these heere doo nei∣ther regard God nor men y^e be aliue, but haue conuerted all their care vpon the dead: not for the loue of them, but for the loue of themselues. Wherefore you muste not thincke, that they haue done this, for any zeale of righte∣ousnesse for to render vnto them their duetie.

I desire gladlye, that they and all the Christians, woulde acquite them in suche sorte that one may say that whiche the Scripture witnesseth of Ruth * and of Booz, and to gyue vnto them such prayse. For it wytnesseth, that they haue shewed mercy on the dead. *

But how? was it in bestowing their goodes to bury them pompeously and making a greate many of Ceremonyes about their buryall? They haue not learned to doe so by * the worde of God. For as Sainct Augustine sayth, also it is written in the decrées themselues, and in the Maister of the sentences. That all these things, to wit, the trauaile and labour that they bestowe vpon the funerals, the beau∣tifying of their buryall, the pompe of the exequics and buryals, are more to comfort those that be aliue, then for Page  98 to ayde the dead. If the precious and costly buryall pro∣fiteth * any thing the wicked, the vile and contemptible bu∣ryall shall hurt the good, or if he doe remayne vnburyed. That rich man of whom Iesus Christ speaketh off, had * a great number of seruants, and courtisans clothed in pur∣ple, and sumptuous apparaile, who made for him moste excellent funerals, and buryed hym very costly to al mens sight: But the Ministering of the Angells made a greate * deale more noble before the face of the Lorde that of the poore begger, whome they carried not to bée buryed: But carryed it into Abrahams bosome. Beholde the wordes of S. Augustine, who declareth vnto vs that we must not dispise the dead bodyes, and denie vnto them their bury∣all, for to testifie and witnesse the hope that wée haue of the resurrection, and that we should estéeme them no lesse then a ring or a badge which they haue left vnto vs, the which we would gladly hide and kepe for the loue of them. Also we ought not to thincke, that the faythfull can be in nothing of lesse strength, and to receiue any hurte before God, when they abide vnburyed, as it oftentimes chauu∣sed, as it is written: The dead bodyes of thy seruaunts * haue they giuen vnto y^e soules of the Aire to be deuoured: and the flesh of thy Saincts vnto the beastes of the land. Their bloude haue they shed lyke water on euerye side of Hierusalem, and there was no man to bury them. But yet neuerthelesse although that those things séeme to be hard & cruell yet notwithstandinge before the face of the Lorde, the death of his Saincts are precious The Panims them∣selues that haue had any vnderstanding were not muche carefull of the buryall: although that many superstitious Idolaters haue thought that it bringeth greate hurt, vnto those that haue not bene buryed. Now euen as the cost which is done about the dead bodyes for their buryalles profiteth lesse vnto them, then to anye other: As muche may we thinke & iudge of all the suffrages and cost that is done for them after their death and buriall, as Saincte Augustine doth playnelye declare, vppon thys place of Page  [unnumbered] the Plalmes. They call their landes after theyr owne * names. What is that? They bringe (saith hée,) breads and wine vnto the graues and call it there the name of the dead. How much or how often dost thou thincke, that the name of that rich man hath bene called vppon after∣wardes, when men were dronken in remembringe him, and one droppe of colde water dyd not discende to quench his hot tongue? Men doe serue their bellye, and not the soules of their parentes and friendes. There commeth nothing vnto the soules of their deade, but that whiche they haue done wyth them being alyue. But if béeinge * alyue, they haue done nothing wyth them, there commeth nothing vnto the dead. What reproch had the men which vnderstoode not what they should doe wyth their ryches, when they lyued, and which dyd thincke that they should bée blessed, if they had a memoriall in a Tombe of mar∣ble stone, as an eternall house: or if their parents & friends, vnto whom they shall leaue their goods, do call their lands after their names: But on the contrary, they ought to pre∣pare for themselues an euerlasting house, in good workes. They ought to prepare for themselues the immortall life, * to send y^e cost & charges before them, to follow their works to haue good regard of their néedy cōpaignion, to giue vnto him with whom they do walke, not to dispise Iesus Christ, to wit, his poore members, lying ful of botches & sores be∣fore the gate, who hath sayd: Inasmuch as you haue done * it vnto one of the least of these my brethren, ye haue done it to me. Doth not héere Sainct Augustine cléerely say, that man must do his good déeds & almose, not vnto y^e sat Moonks & Priests, but to the poore members of Iesus, whilest y^e hée is héere in the way? For after y^e he shalbe out of this world, the good déds & almose y^e their parents & friends do bestow of their riches, profiteth them nothing at all. Wherto also * agreeth y^e which S. Hierome speaketh off, saying: he which shal not obtein pardō of his sins, whilest y^e he liueth in this body, & shal so depart this life, he perisheth to god & leaueth to be: Although y^e be do make himself subject to paines. By Page  99 those dronken bankets of whch Sainct Augustine speak∣eth off, wée may sufficiently vnderstand what was the cu∣stome of the Panims, which for an affection that they dyd beare vnto their parents & friends, & for a desire that they had, and also for a pompe and glorye, haue dedicated some * of them, the thirde, the seauenth, ninth or tenth day, others the thirtie or fortie daye, for to make remembraunce for the dead, and to offer for them and make feastes and ban∣kets. And haue not ordained those dayes wythout putting superstition to the number of them. And yet neuerthelesse, wee doe sée that the Christians altogether and wholly haue followed that manner of dooinge, as it appeareth bothe by their practise, and also by the booke of Durand: Although that Sainct Ambrose & others after him haue made Sermons & decrées, against that custome, the which notwithstandinge coulde not be so cleane taken away and abolished, but that that superstitō continueth almost euery where. For men do * celebrate the seauenth day, tenth day, anwersaries or yeare mindes wyth great bankets and pleasures, as it appeareth by the canons and decrées, in which it is written after this sorte. No Prieste shall in any wise presume to be dronc∣ken * when hée commeth to the yeare minde, or to the tren∣tenarie, or to the seauenth daye, or ternary of any office for the dead, or to anye contraire or brotherhoode: And that hée drincke nor quaffe when hée shall hée desyred for the loue and in the name of the Sainctes, or for the loue of the soule of him that is deade, nor that hée doo not also compell others to drinike: and that he doo not play the * glutton and fyll himselfe to muche wyth good chéere at the request of an other: And that hée presume not to re∣hearse and recyte iestes and vnlawfull scoffinges, playes and vaine fables: nor by anye meanes to singe: And * that he suffer not that one shoulde make before hym vyle games and toyes, and that hée consente not that one shoulde bringe before hym false visages and maskes of Dyuelles. For that is dyabolicall, and forbiden of the holy Canons. We maye well vnderstand by that decrée of the coun∣sayle, Page  [unnumbered] what honestie the Priestes and Christians haue kept in such bankets, sith that they must make lawes by the counsailes, and wherein they differed from the Panims. Wherefore if the good auncient fathers haue made anye memory of the deade, it was after that sorte and manner, as wée haue already spoken off, and for to abolysh by that meanes the superstitious fashions of the Panims, and to chaunge them to better manners, sith that they cannot pluck them away altogether. For if such religion was pleasinge vnto God, it was meruayle, that God dyd not as well or∣dayne, * certeyne feastes, sacrifices and ceremonies, for the dead, as he hath done in all other thinges, and many, which séeme not to be so necessary, as those héere doe estéeme the offering for the dead, whom they doe grieue more, then any commaundement that God hath euer gyuen. If that were cōprised in the loue that we owe vnto our neighbour, how could the spirite of God holde his peace, Iesus Christ and saint Paul his Apostle, who haue so much stroue against it, and commaunded loue towardes our neighbour, and haue not once spoken any word to make prayers, almoste nor sacrifices for the dead? If that same had bene necessa∣ry, and according to the will of God, why would they haue more hidden it from vs then any other thinge? howe can that which Iesus Christ and also his Apostles haue sayde be true, that they haue declared and manifested vnto vs all the wyll of God? Doe we not then vnto them greate iniury, to make that a commaundement of loue and cha∣ritie of whiche they haue neuer spoken off? But I am not abashed sithe that almost in all other thinges the Priestes dooe followe the Panims, and the Iewes the Mosoycall Ceremonyes, abolyshed by Iesus Christe, howe they haue not followed them in this matter, and that they doe not absteyne to come néere the deade, and to as∣sist them at their buryalles, as the auncient Priestes of the lawe, vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it. For if they woulde bée Iewes, and followe them in older thinaes, they oughte also to followe them in thys, Page  100 or to yéelde a reason, wherefore they followe them in one thing, and not in an other. *

they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe: For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite, the which they followe, notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe, as I haue alreadye sayde. Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others, a lawe ga∣thered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked.

It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd * gyue vnto Ruth, sayinge: The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you, as ye haue dealte wyth the dead: And vnto Booz in lyke manner, praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie, as he did vnto the liuinge, regarding not the Masses, pray∣ers, songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them: But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing. Where∣fore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead, and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them. The prayers, offerings and good deedes, that * Ruth, that good wydowe, did make for hir husbande that was dead: was, that she kept company, faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe, hir husbandes mother. A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hir∣selfe * was, she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersi∣ties: And nourished, cherished & loued hir, & was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age, as though she had bene hir owne * mother. In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept & done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those y^e be liuing, that is, that euen as during their life, he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them, the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade. And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them, and that Page  [unnumbered] they had no more neede of him, hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them, towardes the wydowes, mo∣thers and wiues, of whome he hath had pittie and com∣passion, & hath hulpen them both in body & goods, procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one * & of the other, vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite, which was y^• graundmother of Dauid, * and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande, in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe. Where∣fore we may knowe, howe much the woorke bothe of the one & of the other hath pleased God, & what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead.

I doe finde that to bée the best waye, to be∣stowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fa∣therlesse children (for that is the true Religion) then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead, or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots, and vpon their children in like manner.

I warrant you they will not followe any good example, nor the certeine commaundement of God, but what do they follow in this matter? When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture, I doe not finde one worde. And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the * Panims, was Pluto: of whome we will speake off héere∣after, whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules: and the king of the dead, and of hell. After him came Aeneas, who did bringe that custome into Italy. After Aeneas, Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines: afterwardes our Popes, who haue conty∣nued, augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses. Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same, then our superstitious Papystes hadde. For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade, for the estymation that they hadde, that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines, but for to appease them, to the ende that Page  101 their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill, if they had displesed them when they were aliue. For Pla∣to himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers & * inuenters of Purgatory, witnesseth plainely, that the pa∣rents & friends cānot profit y^• dead. And therfore (saith he) y^e parents, friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly, and to do pre∣sently vnto them that good. For there (to wytte) after this life, they cannot giue it thē. And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents & friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y^• Iudge, and which canne obtaine of him, that he wil pardon thée.

I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim, tou∣ching the dooings of the dead, and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this.

If y^e panims did not meane y^• their sacrifices & commemoration should profit the dead, wherefore did they it then.

It might be that they did thinke, that there might retourr• vnto them some little profit: But yet neuer∣thelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes, to the end they should not hurt them, either in their bodies or goods: euen as they haue accusto∣med to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men, whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods, for to haue ayd and solace, as Aeneas did vnto his Fa∣ther * Anchises. And all that errour procéeded, from the false opinion that they had of the soules, and for want of know∣ing their nature and estate, therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding, and not after the word of God. As they do also of the bodies, thinking (at the least the most supersticyous, as it hath bene alreadye touched) that the soule doth walke a certaine time, if their bodyes hath not bad y^• honor of y^e burial, such as apertameth & was * meete for them: And that the bodies were in daunger Page  [unnumbered] of Enchantors and sorcerers, which would abuse them tho∣row their Nycromancic & coniuration. And the Hebrewe * Rabins, and doctors of the Iewes, and in no lesse dreaming. For they say, that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell, who calleth him selfe Zazell, and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture, for to confirme their er∣roure, vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent: Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life. And in another place. The earth shalbe the Serpents meate. They woulde conclude by those words, that the body of man, and all that which is in the fleshe, and the vices therein, is giuen for meate to the Serpent, whom they do call Azazell, lord of the fleshe and the bloud, and Prince of that world, saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of y^e deserts. Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime * and dust of the earth, and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent, they conclude thereby, that our bodies are subiect vnto him, and in his power, vntill such time as they be sanctified, and that the earthly fleshe bee transfor∣med and changed into a spirituall nature. And therfore say * they that that body hath neede both in his buriall, & whilest that he is in this earth, to be purified & sanctified through prayers sacrifices, encensements, exorcismes, coniurations, and other ceremonies fit for the same.

Durand in that booke, wherein he yel∣deth * the reason of all the popish ceremonies, speaking of the office and burying of the dead, allegeth the same rea∣sons, and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Ca∣balistes. Wherein we may well know that the superstici∣ous christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine, then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine. For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse, that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water, not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes, which could not then by such things, be defaced & put out: But to the ende that the wicked spirites, and theyr presence should be dryuen away. And therefore saith hée Page  102 that in some places, they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue, with the fire and encense, and that the holy water is put there, to the e•de that the diuell shoulde not come neere, for he doth feare it very much.

It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier, vnto whom the diuel ap∣peared * so terrible, that he could not speake for feare. And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche, Fryer Giles could not arise, but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water, wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe: and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him.

Behold a good proofe: the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe, and the faith in him: or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith, which is * the buckler and shield, wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell. I do muche meruaile where God hathe commaūded to driue away the diuell by water, and when * the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell.

At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water,

When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be, that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables. But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand, he addeth moreouer, that in what soeuer place the christians shalbe buried out of the church∣yarde, they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head. For the diuell doth feare very much that signe, & dareth not to * come nigh the place, where he seeth the crosse.

That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard, is not coniured. Wherby it hath not so much vertue. And therfore in recōpence, they do ad y^• crosse, for to driue away y^e diuell.

For y^• same cause do they also coniure y^• earth of y^• churchyard. For as they * do witnes & affirme, y^e diuels haue vsed to get thē vnto the dead bodies, and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them, and inforce themselues to do vnto them, Page  [unnumbered] at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue. Furthermore, they * say that at the day of iudgement, our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him, that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians, and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute, and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar. Euen so will he say vnto those: whose is this Image? what money is this? Then those which shalbe marked with the crosse, shalbe knowen to bee good christian money: And Iesus Christ will say: that whiche is Cesars, that is to say, vnto the diuell, giue it him & that which is vnto God, giue it to God.

I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye a∣way those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse, especially the priestes and moonks, whiche are all hyd and couered with them? Are not these good∣ly reasons, and most worthy of such diuines?

Yea, those are Godly reasons, what will you say to the contrary? do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes, wherefore they ought to do that? And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good & iust reason?

Thou hast heard them, and thou hast al∣so the Iewes, Cabalists and Panyms, for to be the firste authors of them. But those dreames are yet more tollera∣ble, and worhty of pardon then those here, bycause that ha∣uing the braine full of false opinions, and inchauntments, they feare least the enchauntors, Magitians, and especially the coniurers, and the diuell with them, should abuse their bodies, thorow their enchaūtments necromances & witch∣craft. But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue, who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ, as wel for the body as for the soule, vsing such ceremonies, which I may truly call charmes inchauntements, & magi∣call supersticions and purifications, and not euangelical. For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to Page  103 the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth, how will God permit and suffer, that that olde serpent, shall de∣file * those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple & habit a∣tion of his holy ghost? And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him, thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ, and sanctified thorow his spirite? haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed, after the manner as the enchaunters & charmers do their exorcisms & coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse, more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules, whiche Iesus * Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest, hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit, and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name? And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him, that is to say, the troubles and aduersities of this world, in all patience, and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death & passion, reioysing our selues only in his crosse, as the holy apostle saith wee ought not to doubte but that that faithe, hath imprinted suche a crosse and such a signe and marke in our hearts and bo∣dies, y^e the diuel dareth not to approch nor come nigh them. And if that same is not sufficient, there is none other after * our death, which can serue vs. Furthermore sith that God hath giuen vnto vs his Angels, for to serue, kéepe & defend vs, let vs not feare, that as they haue ca•ted the soule of Lazarus, into Abrahams bosome, and haue kepte and de∣fended the body of Moses from the power of the diuell, and * did striue and fight for it against them, but that they wil∣be * also assisting vnto all true faithfull people, for to kéepe their bodies & soules, according to the charge and commis∣sion that they haue of God and that God himselfe woulde bury them rather, as he hath buried Moses, then to suffer that Sathan shoulde haue domination or rule ouer them. Wherfore I do greatly feare, that the bodies and reliques which the idolatrous christians do worshippe, and honour vnder the name and title of the saincts, & saintes, are not * the true bodies and reliques of the Saincts and true ser∣uants Page  [unnumbered] of God, but rather those of some malefactory or wic∣ked man and abhominable before God. For it euer any bodyes were lefte vnder the power of the olde Serpent, and of the Diuell, those be they, of whom men haue made Idols, & which haue ben set vp for relicks for to be adored & worshipped, & which haue bene the occasion among the Christian people of the greatest Idolatry y^e euer was in y^e worlde. Wherefore it is most lykest to be true, that the diuell maketh himselfe to be worshipped and honoured by the bodyes in which he dwelled, and of which he was ser∣ued during their lyfe, then in those whiche haue bene the Temple of the lyuing God, and which haue serued to his honour and glory, forsaking altogether the diuell and his seruice. The Iewes and Cabalysts haue estéemed those purifications and ceremonyes about the dead, of which we haue spoken, to be necessary to their bodyes bicause that the Magicians and coniurers haue vsed to steale them * awaye, or to take certayne members from them for to serue for their witchcraftes & to make them instruments of the diuell: as it appeareth by the witnesse of many aun∣cient writings and historyes. *

Lucan declareth it very playnely, describing the Witchcraftes and Sorceryes of Erichtho. For that same cause the custome was in Thessalia the which hath alwayes had the name to be full of Enchaunters, Wit∣ches and Coniurers, that when any man was dead, a cer∣teine Seriaunt or common Heralde cryed with a loude voyce in the open stréete, that if there were any man which woulde kéepe a dead body lette him come foorth and bar∣gaine and agrée for the price?

Wherefore did they so? haue the dead bo∣dyes in Thessaly vsed to run away? or whether they were more daungerous then in other countryes. *

Thou mayst well knowe, that the deade bodyes can no more byte any man, and that they are in an euil case, for to runne away sith y^e they must be car∣ryed to be buryed, their seete stretched out right before.

But I thinke that thou hast not forgotten that which we haue spoken of the Panyms, how that they doe not bury their dead by and by, and the causes wherefore And therefore the Thessalians, vsed to keepe their dead al the night, vntil the day that they burned their bodies, and bu∣ried * their ashes, bicause they had that opiniō, that the sor∣cerers did come in the night and did byte their faces, and dismember them, for to serue them for their enchaunte∣ments and witchcraftes: and for to doe the same, they transforme and chaunge them selues into the forme and likenes of what beast they list: sometime into y^e likenes of birdes, some time like dogs, or myce: yea into the likenes of very flyes: and afterwards doe flye and come into the houses and enter so subtilly and secretly that none cane perceiue it. And when they are entred within, they tho∣rowe their enchauntements doe make those that keepe them fall into a slepe, afterwards they doe vnto the dead bodies what it pleaseth them. For that cause the parents and frinds of the dead, did hire kéepers, for a péece of mo∣ney, for to watch all the night by the dead bodie, without sléeping any thing at all, not so much as to winke, or to turne their face here and there, but to haue theyr eyes al∣wayes fixed vpon the dead body. After that they haue founde out keepers, whiche will take vppon them that charge, they deliuer the body vnto them in charge, hauing witnesses how they haue deliuered it all whole and sound afterwards they shut them into a chamber, with the dead body, and a lampe full of Oyle, for to giue them light vn∣till the morning, and water within vessels. And if he that * kéepeth it do not take good héede of the body the next day whatsoeuer is wanting or diminished of y^e dead body that he hath euil and negligently kept, hee is bounde to re∣store and recompence it of his owne proper face.

These people were verye fooles to beléeue such follyes. Who hath written the same.

A good doctor called Apuleus, whiche saith that he hath done that office himselfe.

Truely thou hast very well founde it. Perad∣uenture he hath séene the same, whilest that he was chaun∣ged into an Asse. *

I do confesse, that the same is a great drea∣ming: But do not the christians almost the like? doe not they also watche the dead bodies with a candle and holy water? Are they afrayd that they would runne away, or least the Cattes or Mice should come and gnawe the féete and the face of the dead? or whether they are afraid of wit∣ches and coniurers? or that the diuell shoulde carry them away, as one hath written of some, whose bodies are not yet toune? if God hath giuen power vnto the diuels ouer the dead bodies: the water, candles, fire nor incense, shall not make them afrayd, nor yet the witchecraftes and con∣iurations, except they will say, that they do vse charme a∣gainst charme, and that theirs is more stronger then those of the enchauntors.

It is not now néede, that they take such paines, for to driue awaye the diuels or the socerers from them. For their was neuer forcerer, coniurer nor en∣chauntor, that abused more vile and shamefully the bodies of men, nor to the greater dishonoure of God and hurte of all the Christianitie, then the Priestes and Moonks, who in steade of the coniuring, that is to say, diuination by y^e dead that the Panyms and Infidels haue exercised and vsed, they haue set vp & erected a necrolatrie, that is to say, an * adoration and worshipping of the dead, and the most grea∣test Idolatrie that euer was vpon the earth: And haue made the bodies of men to serue y^e diuell, & haue made him to be worshiped, vnder the name and title of them, euen as Saul worshiped him vnder the name of Samuel, by the * meanes of his old witche. Is not that a great blasphemy and sacriledge, to offer & consecrate vnto the diuell the bo∣dies of men, whom Iesus Christ hath dedicated and con∣secrated * to God thorow his bloud, for to bee the Temple of the holy Ghost, not for to be Idols, that men shoulde worship them, in stede of God? we may very well say, that Page  105 these bodyes of which Sathan is serued vnder the tytle * of the relyckes of saints, after the manner as he was ier∣ued before of the Images and Idolls of the panims, haue not bene well coniured by the charmes, witchings, crosse, candells, encense and holy water for to driue the Diuell from them: or els y^e all those things were nothing worth sith that Sathan hath had such power vpon them, that hée hath letted them to retourne vnto the place which God hath assigned them, to wyt, into the earthe out of which * they came, and that he hath done that that hée pretended to do about the body of Moses, the which he desired to set vp for an Idoll among the people of Israel, knowing that * God hath forbidden Images and Idolls. And there is no doubt, but that he had brought it to passe, if God by the ministring of his Angells, had not letted him, and shewed * his vertue and power, not thorow materiall crosses, holy water, candells and torches, encense and lyghts, and o∣ther like supersticions, the which Moses had not at his bu∣ryall nor all the Patriarches, Pruphetes, and Apostles, nor yet of Prayers, Suffrages, nor Sacrifices, after their death, and yet they were neuerthelesse delyuered from the power of the serpent.

You forgette the principall, you speake not of the habite of Saint Fraunces which hath yet more ver∣tue * then all that which you haue declared and spoken off, if we will beléeue and giue any credite vnto the Corde∣liers and Nonnes. For it doth not onely driue away the diuells which are about the bodye, but also it quencheth the fire of Purgatory, and mitigateth the paynes, especi∣ally if that he which hath clad himselfe with it doe dye v∣pon Saint Fraunces daye. But which is more, it delyue∣reth * from eternall death, as the Cordeliers doe witnesse of the king of Castilia, which was delyuered, bicause y^t be∣ing * ready to dye he did put on him y^t holy garment, & dy∣ed in the same: and aswell of other Kings & Quéenes, of whom mention is made of them in y^e booke of y^e conformi∣ties. Whrfore I esteeme y^e lice the most happiest creatures Page  [unnumbered] of all others, according to the Theologie of the Cordeli∣ers. For there dyeth a great number of them within that holy habite. Wherefore Fryer Lewes did no wrong, in callyng them the pearles of the poore. But I doe much meruayle of one thing, y^t the Lyce are more bolder then the Diuells, sith that the Diuells doe so much feare that holy habite that they dare not approche and come nighe, and the Lyce lodge there at their ease. I should well be∣léeue that if the Diuells were as fearefull as the young children, that they shoulde be greatly afrayde of that ha∣bite and maske at the beginning, when they did see men so wildely disguysed. And I thinke, that if Ortis the kings * Moore, had bene the firste that had dyed in that habite, that they woulde haue had great feare. For he was as blacke as a Diuell, & disguysed as a Cordelier, wherefore they would haue founde the same very straunge.

But I am wonderfully abashed, wherfore they put rather a crosse in the handes of those which dye in the habite of Saynt Fraunces, then in the hands of poore simple people, who are buried onely in a shéete.

I can giue vnto thée none other reason, but that I thinke that the same is done by the permission and prouidence of God, which will that men should doe vnto them honour, as they customally doe vnto the euill and wicked men, when they are executed thorow Iustice, vnto which in many places and countryes, they make him to beare a crosse in his handes, chiefely the Sorcerers and Heretickes. Wherefore men doe not very great wrong vnto those Idolaters which doe put theyr affiaunce and * trust in an olde rotten garment, to compare them vnto the Sorcerers and Heretickes, rather then to the poore simple people, sith that they haue declared themselues more Infidells then the other, and that they haue lesse fayth and hope in the merite of the death and passion of Iesus Christ.

Wherefore doest thou speake so outragi∣ously, sith that the most honeste and wise men and Page  106 which are most estéemed in this worlde, haue desired to dye in that habite?

So much the more oughte wée to feare moste, seeing that the efficacie and strengthe of Sathan * hath béene so greate, that the most wysest men of the worlde, and those which are accompted for good and vertuous men, haue bene deceyued thorowe such opi∣nions, and are fallen into such blasphemyes, the which yet those wicked Moonkes are not ashamed to vpholde and maynteyne. For what blasphemy was euer grea∣ter * vppon the earthe, as to to attribute vnto suche a Maske, the healthe and saluation of soules, and to make an Idoll and newe Christ, not onely of Saynt Fraunces, but also of his hoode and habite? Where∣as in déede I doe not thinke, that he was euer disguysed in such sorte, and that he hath bene the author of those blasphemyes, of which vnder his name and tytle all the worlde hath bene filled and poysoned, thorowe the meanes and practise of those false bretheren the Cordeli∣ers, which haue bene the Trompette and Bagpipe of sa∣than * throughout all Christendome, together with theire other companions. But to what ende doth that habite profite the deade? It maye serue for those that bee ly∣uing for a gowne, hose, bonet and hoode, for to couer and keepe them from the colde.

You doe yet forgette the chiefest. For it serueth also vnto the Moonkes, for to shewe that they * are effeminated, and worthye to bee taken for woemen, although that by their workes, they sufficiently declare themselues not to be woemen, and that men doe not call them father, without good cause. Yet neuerthelesse mée thinkes they are repugnaunt to the Scripture which forbiddeth men to putte on woemens rayment, nor the * woeman that which pertayneth vnto the man. And yet neuerthelesse, hée which shall consider and marke well their apparayle, they are lyker woemens apparayle then mens, aswell those which they commonly weare, as the Page  [unnumbered] vestements which they doe vse in their Masses.

I graunt vnto thée all that: but to what ende serueth it to the dead? First of all what profite can it bring vnto the soule? For it cannot touch it, cloathe, nor couer it, nor yet descende into Purgatory with it.

The body also goeth neither into purgatory nor into hell, but is buryed in the earth, vntill the day of the resurrec∣tion. For then the habite shall be cleane rotten, and I do not beléeue that it shall arise with the body, and that those which are dead in the same, shall arise agayne clothed in a Cordelier. For it shall not be then time to make maskes and daunce the morish. There is neyther the habite of Fraunces, Dominicke, nor of any Moonke whatsoeuer he be, nor any thing that man can muent and dreame, which can serue vs any thing before the face of that great Iudge * of the quicke & of the dead, no more then the Fig leanes serued Adam for to couer him before him, but that hée will sée all our filthinesse and abhominations, if they hée not couered and hid with the righteousnes and innocen∣cie of Iesus Christ. Wherefore if we will appeare clo∣thed and not naked before his maiestie, it must be that he himselfe doe cut out and make the apparayle and habite, wherewith we must be clothed, as he did make vnto A∣dam * and and Eue. And therfore we must follow the counsaile of the Apostle, who exhorteth vs to put off the olde man, and to put on, not y^• habite of Fraunces or Dominicke, but our Lur Lord Iesus Christ. For that is an habite which * serueth both to the body and to the soule, and which de∣lyuereth from y^e iudgement of god. That is the holy wa∣ter, the lights, bells, sencings and candells, which dely∣uereth our bodies & soules from the power of the serpent, whose head he hath broken. That is the water of lyfe, * which rayseth vs vnto eternall lyfe: which washeth and maketh cleane our consciences. That is the true fire of Purgatorye, and furnayce in which the olde Adam is melted and made newe, and the newe man purged from all his filthynesse and simes. Wherefore I doe Page  107 giue counsell vnto you all, that you take good héede that such treasure be not stollen from you, and that you trust not to the good déeds which those that be alyue shall doe for you after that you are dead: But that you doe putte your trust in Iesus Christ, and declare and shew foorth the vertue and efficacie of your fayth, thorow charitie and good workes, which doe serue to the glory of God, to the edyfiyng of his Church, and the vtilytie of our neighbour, and that you follow the example of the true seruaunts of God, and the doctrine which the holy Ghost by them hath giuen vnto vs, not the Gentiles and Panims, and the false pyophets & seducers, which haue altogether turned vpside downe the Christian Religion, and haue conuerted it, not only into Iewishnes, but also into panimrie, witch∣craft, & sorcertee.

You haue spoken as it pleaseth you: but I must néeds auniswere you. For if you dispute & plead all alone, you may easely winne the victory.

We desire none other thing then to heare thy reasons but wée haue forgotten one of the princiyall poynts. For we haue not yet demaunded of Thomas the cause wherfore he would go to saint Patricke: the which I desire glady to know.

I haue determined with my selfe many times to tel you: but I desire, to heare first what Eusebius can say agaynst you. Wherefore I doe thinke it best that forasmuch as all these dayes, there is none of vs which is so greatly occupyed but that wée may giue him the next day for his reuenge, to aunswere: And after that I haue hearde all you, I will declare vn∣to you y^• meruaylous fantastes which I haue in my head.

I beléeue, that there is none of vs, but that he is of that opinion.

In stéede where others doe passe awaye the time in playing and other vayne occupations, where∣off commeth no profite, I finde it better, that we vse such recreations, which bring no hurt vnto any man, but may much serue and profite vs. For in so doing we learne the one the other: and doe examine the things together, the Page  [unnumbered] better to knowe how to render a reason of our Law and Religion: besides that we learne some honest recreation together, the which is better agreeing with our estate, then to remayne idle without doing any thing, or in losing the time in beholding foolysh playes and maskes: or in ban∣ketting and in bestowing great expences, yet to the hurte and domame of our bodyes and soules: or vnto slée∣ping, and as beastes to giue our selues onely vnto plea∣sures, as many doe. And although that all wée may bée occupied in other mens affaires, eyther publicke or dome∣sticall, which woulde better serue for the pursse and for the perticular gayne & profite: yet neuertheles one cannot be alwaies attētife in great affaires, without hauing some intermission and relaxation of the spirite: And wée must not be so couetous after the gayne and the perticular pro∣fite, that at no time we should haue leasure to speake and falke of the things of God, and that thorow honest plea∣sures and recreations, we may not refresh our wits and spirites, and prepare them agayne to the great affaires to which God hath called vs all, according to the grace that we haue receyued of him.

There is nothing more certeyn then that which thou sayst, and I would not for a great thing, but that I had bene with you and to haue heard, that which I haue heard. Hil∣larius. Wée shall knowe in the ende what tast thou hast had therein. Yet neuerthelesse I doe more feare leaste that Eusebius bée more offended then thou. But I trust notwithstandinge, that the hope that he hath of the victory, will giue him courage and bold∣nesse to come agayne the more wil∣lyngly.