If mine eyes haue not deceiued mée, I thinke I saw you all thrée to day at the Sermon: wherefore I desire to know your opinions how the same pleased you, and what you thinke of the Preacher.

As far as I can iudge, I thinke that he is very skilfull and cloquent: for he hath spoken very learnedly and deepely of matters so obscure and pro∣founde.

He could not speake more profoundly: For he hath pearced euen vnto y^• very centre of the earth: therfore I am the more abashed that he spake so cléerly of matters so obscure, and of these darke places no man euer saw ought. For the Sunne neuer shineth there.

As far as I could perceiue by him, I thinke that eyther he hath not bene in those places of which he spake, or els if he were, it is long agoe. If the opinion of Isydore be true, we shall haue very small occasion to giue credite to this ghostly father and to his preachinge.

Hath Isydore ben of an other opinion, then the rest of the Christian Doctors, touching this matter?

There is none among the Christians which doubteth that there is an hell, seeing that the holy Scripture rende∣reth so sure and vndoubtefull a testimony with the which we ought to content our selues, not willyng to know any * further, then it hath reuealed it vnto vs. It ought to suf∣fice vs which Iesus Christ witnesseth vnto vs, that there is an hell of eternall & vnquenchable fire, where the worme dieth not, but wher ther is euerlasting horrour, weeping & gua hing of teeth: we need not to enquire of the place: for I Page  23 thinke ther is none which desireth to go thether. And ther∣fore we haue néede to praye vnto GOD, that it woulde please him to giue vs his grace to know his will, and to be able to accomplish it thorow his sonne Iesus Christ, to the ende we may auoide that hell fire and extreme darkenesse. We néede not much to stay to know in what place hell is, * whether it is in the centre of y^• earth, according to the com∣mon opinion of the Doctors & of Plato, which saith, y^• it is in the depth of the earth: or whether it is vnder the earth in the country of the Antipodes, according to the opinion of Isydore, who sayth that after the day of iudgement, the Sunne and the Moone shall kéepe themselues so stedfaste in heauen that they shall no more tourne round about the earth, but giue their lyght and brightnesse, onely in that part of the world in y^• which we dwell, and that the dam∣ned shalbe all sent away vnder the earth, into those horrible darkenesse, and into those places, in the which at this day, some men doe thinke, that the Antipodes doe dwell.

If it were so that the Sunne and the Moone doth nowe shine there, wée maye thinke, that some one of the countrye of the Antipodes is come from thence, who hath declared and described to our Preacher the scitu∣acion of hell, of Lymbo patrum, and of Purgatory, with al their confines in such sort and manner as he hath expoun∣ded them vnto vs.

You may saye what you will, and I will beléeue what pleaseth mée, but I cannot thinke that he was euer there, or that hée hath euer heard any one speake that came from thence, & hath so well visi∣ted all the places theroff. For neuer in my lyfe I hearde it better deuised. There is neyther hall, chamber nor closet, cole-panne, kitchin, nor seller, chimney nor pot-hangers, great caudron nor lyttle caudron, chaynes nor flesh-hookes and other insernall vtensills, but that he hath described and set them foorth so lyuely, as mée thinketh I sée the thinges before mine eyes in such sort, that yet I am afrayde when I thinke on them. The Cyrographers and Notaryes are very dilygent and curious for to expresse & declare in their Page  [unnumbered] instruments and writings the situacion & lymtis of hou∣ses and possessions of which they make writings off: But I haue not found any so skilfull and of such habilitie who can bound and lymitte so perfectly the landes, as our prea∣cher to day hath lymitted and bounded out hell, Limbus patrum and Purgatory. As far as I can perceiue he kno∣weth in what clymate they are: how many degrées, miles * and places the one is from the other: of what side they are all scituated and placed, whether they bée on the Cast, West, North or South.

You take not the matter am••se. But you must not be abashed, if he and such as he is, doe take so great paynes to bound and lymitte so perfectly those places, and chiefely Purgatorie: For they * haue no better possession then this, which yéeldeth vnto them more profite and gaine, nor of which they receiue and gather vp more rents and reuenues. There is no realme, Lordship, lande nor heritage which bringeth more profite to their Lords & owners, then Purgatory doth bring vn∣to them. Wherefore it is no maruayle if they doe feare so much to loose it and that their bounds and lymits shoulde be transported or changed any other where. Ptolomus and many other wise and excellent Geographers are estéemed to be very well learned, aswell among the Greekes as the Latines. But I thinke that among all those, there is not one, which in his Geography hath at any time so wel pain∣ted and described the earth with all the parts thereoff, coun∣tryes and regions as this our Doctor hath described and drawen out before our eyes, these low parts and inseruall regions.

By that we may know, or at the least presume, that he speaketh not onely by heare say, but that he hath bene there in proper person, or •ls hath had some expert teacher in that Geography. For I doe sée that the best Geographers and the most cumming Cosmographers doe faile oftentimes in the description of the earth, and of many countryes and regions which are most familier to vs, and of which they may haue greatest and most certeyne experience.

Without séeking any further, we may try it in the French Cardes or Maps. There is not almost a coun∣try better knowne then Fraunce, neuerthelesse we sée of∣tentimes great errours in those Cardes in the which it is described. Wherefore wée may well thincke that it maye so chaunce in other tables, mappes, and cardes conteminge the description of heauen and earth and of the regions and countryes vnknowne.

I doubt not at all, but that this Monke hath the * spirite for to compose and make a table and Mappe of these low countryes, better then the paynters haue paynted them out in the temples, or the Printers in the Shepheards Ca∣lēders. And therfore I desire very much to speke with him. For I haue taken in hande a iourney in the which he may helpe mée. For I hope that eyther he will shewe mee some good way, or els satisfie mée in such sorte that peraduenture I shall saue the iourney and charges.

What voyage is that which you haue taken vppon you? will you goe into Sicily?

What to doe in Sicily?

To descend into hell: For I cannot vnderstand * any other thing by your talke, forasmuch as you enquire after that Monke to accomplish and ende your voyage. I thinke you will haue him for your guyde, to conduct you in that daungerous voyage, euen as Circe •uyded Vlysses * to bring him to the speach of Elpenor: and Sybilla Aene∣as to conduct and bring him vnto the speache of his father Anchises.

I thinke you are eyther a Prophet or a Di∣uine: you haue hitte the na••e on the hea•e, you haue not erred a whit from the matter. •ut to what purpose speake you vnto mée of Sicily? Is there any hauen, or any entrye, place, or denne, to descende into those in∣fernall and obscure, horrible and most darkesome coun∣tryes.

What meane you to make all this circum∣stāce & questionings? you make it so strange as though you Page  [unnumbered] had neuer heard it spoken off before. Ther is nothing more * common in the Poeticall Theologie.

You al∣leage vnto mee a goodly diuinitie. I haue nothing to doe with the Poets, nor with their fables and faynings. Is it not well knowne, that they be inuented of pleasure, and there is no truth in them, but that they are most euident lyes.

If you so lyttle esteeme the testimonye of the Poets, I thinke you will not despise altogether the * vulgar & common opinion which hath continued and en∣dured so long time, and moreouer doth confirme it.

You bring mée into a faire land, and alleage vn∣to mée a testimony worthy of credite, for confirmation of the other, to set mée ouer vnto the common people: there is nothing more vnconstant, more foolish, more mutable, nor more ready to beléeue all lyes, fables and follyes?

I thinke y^• yet at the least wise you wil not reiect the testimony of that holy man Odillo, Abbot of the Monks * of Cluny, and of many orher Monkes very deuout, which haue followed him.

It may be that when I shall heare his opinion, eyther I will allow it or disallow it. What sayth hée?

Peter of Amiens hath writ∣ten that in the time of Pope Iohn the viij. About a thou∣sande * yeares after the death and passion of Iesus Christ, Odillo was in Sicily, and bicause that he heard oftentimes the noyse, cryes and bewaylings which were made conti∣nually, about that burning hill Aetna, called of the Italians at this day Gibello monte, did thinke it came from the Di∣uells lamenting that the soules of the faythfull deceased were deliuered from torments through the masses, vigiles, prayers, sacrifices and offrings of the Christians. And ther∣fore he incontinent declared the same to his Monkes, and they all decréed together, that after they had offered their of∣ferings the first day of Nouember, and celebrated the feaste * of Saints in the honour of all Saints, they would in lyke manner the next day beeing holyday make prayers and •ri∣sons for the soules of all the faythfull deceased. After∣warde in succession of time others receiued and allowed Page  25 that manner of doing, as good and holy.

What * reason had they to imagine that those cryes & mourninges came of the lamentations that the Diuels made?

I cannot vnderstand that it hath had any other reason or foundation then the Poets, and the common peo∣ple, to thincke that there was a place there to descende into * hell, and the place in which the soules of the wicked were tormented for their sinnes, bicause that in that same moun∣taine there is a perpetuall fire which alwaies burneth, and * hath done so of long time. Wherefore they haue thought that y^• damned were kept in those great burning goulfes. By this same reason was Odillo and his Monkes mo∣ued, and were the Authours, that the Christians gaue * themselues to celebrate feastes, and make sacrifiees for the dead in the month of Nouember, euen as the heathen Ro∣maines did commonly vse it in the month of February, by y^• * institution & appointmēt of Numa Pompilius y^• second king of the Romaines. Al the reason that moued Odillo procéeded but of ignoraunce, for y^• he vnderstood not the cause where∣of those gronings, noise and feareful cryes which he hearde in Sicily about that mountaine did arise. But imagined that it was the Diuels which haled and fore themselues by the haire, sorrowing with great despite that they sawe the∣soules goe out of paines and tormentes. But his imagi∣nation hath brought no hurt to his couent, nor to all the other Monkes and Priestes. For that sanie day, is the best faire that they haue all the yeare, and a time in which they make haruest and vintage altogether, with not taking o∣uermuch paines. If the soules of the deceased haue as much gaine as they, they, may bée very ioyfull of the feast.

But I woulde gladly knowe, from whence those cryes and mourninges did procéede, whether they came * from the Diuels, or from the soules of the dampned, or from those which are kept in Purgatory, or of some other naturall cause.

The cause is easie to bée knowne of him who wyll vnderstande what is the si∣tuation Page  [unnumbered] and nature of the place. For of the one side is the * roaringe of the Sea, which maketh an horrible noise, on the other side the greate goulfes of fire that arise and come out of the mounteyne. Wherefore when the ve∣hement▪windes doe blowe, and enter violently into the holes and caues that are▪there, and mingle themselues wyth those vaines of brimstone kindled with that impe∣tous fire, wée must not meruaile when all those thinges mixt and confused together, doe méete, if there are feare∣full cryinges, and such which the Poet hath described, saying.

I doe then much doubte, if it bée euen so as you saye, but that the good Odillo was deceyued, and that hée, and all his Monkes haue greatly dreamed. *

They haue at the least so much dreamed and those which haue beléeued their dreames, as they who stayinge themselues vppon the fables of Poets, haue thought that Enseladus, Briarnis and the other Gyauntes, were buried vnder that great and burning hil of Aetna, af∣ter that Iupiter destroyed them with lightning and ouer∣threwe them vppon the mounteines that they had made for to ascend into heauen, when they warred agaynst him. For euen as they imagined that those fearefull and terrible Gyauntes were enclosed vnder that mounteyne, who remouinge themselues from the one side to the o∣ther, dyd cast and throwe foorth those great and daunge∣rous •••tes, flaminge fyers, whoorlewindes and smoked: Page  26 Those héere doe put the Dyuels in slée•e of the Gyants: And doe attribute vnto them that which the mounteyne doth naturallye. So as other dreamers and fo••es haue done of the mounteine of Islande and Norwaye: of * which they that haue written of those Regyons & Coun∣tryes, doe wytnesse that they are almost like vnto that hyll Aetna, and specially about the borders of Norwaye. For they say that there is there a mounteyne commonly called Hechelbergo enuironed with the Sea, the most horri∣ble * and fearefull that is in the worlde. And for to make the tale better and the thing more meruaylous, they saye also, that there are hearde the cryinges, wéepinges and la∣mentations of the soules which goe into Hell, insomuche as those horrible cryes and noyse are spreade and heard * a myle rounde aboute. They adde moreouer that there are very great and meruaylous blacke Rauens & Crowes * which flye rounde about it makinge also horrible cryes, in such sort that they terrefie euery man that none ba∣reth to approche nighe vnto that mounteine. After∣wards; * ther ariseth out of the same two fountaines, where∣of the one is of such vehement and excessiue coldenesse, and the other of such heate, that both of them are intol∣lerable, and there is no Element howe colde or hotte so∣euer it bée, but that they surmounte it, both in heate and coldenesse. And which is more in that same Coun∣trey, towardes the South partes, as men saye, there is a place called Nadhegrin, in which the Dyuels of that * place doe appeare vnto men, whome they sée before their eyes hauing bodies of the ayre.

Odillo might haue had better occasion to haue situated Hell and Purgatory there, then in the hyll Aetna.

It woulde haue had better, appearaunce, if those thinges were true. But if wée shoulde staye our selues vppon such dreames and lyes, wée myght also forge an other Hell and Purgatory in Scotland, in which * men say that there is a hill full of sorrow & very fearfull, by Page  [unnumbered] reason of the cryes of those that do wéepe and lament there. And in Thuringia there is a hill in which ther are heard * most horrible noise & cryes: And y^• hath not onely the name to be frequēted with Faunes & Satyres which are a kinde of Diuels, which many waies haue seduced y^• Panims. But also some do affirme y^• they haue séene the same by experi∣ence. And some writers & Authours accōpted for men wor∣thy of credite, haue written it.

There should bée then many Helles and Purgatories by that accompt. But bicause I feare very much, that there are great follies and lyes in those histories, I thincke that it shoulde bée most sure and expedient for mée, to take that way which I first purposed, then to take the way either in Sicily or in any of those places that you haue named vnto mée. For the way is not much frequented nor knowne as that is which I haue taken vppon mée, except you haue touched the one of the countries, whether I would goe.

Whe∣ther haue you then enterprised to goe?

I doe make mine accompt, to goe straight into Scotland or into Ireland.

Is there any way to descend into these infernall Regions and countries?

Haue you euer heard spoken of the voyage and Caues of Saint Patricke? doe you not remember the bookes that we had at * schoole when wée were little children?

You make me now remember the saying of my Graundfather. Were we not happy in those daies, that we had such bookes in our handes, in stéed of some good Authour, and of the Bi∣ble and holy Scriptures? If wée consider well the vnhap∣pinesse and misery of that time and barberousnesse and ig∣noraunce both of God and all good discipline which then possessed all the worlde, and compare it with the mercy which GOD at this presente doth vnto vs, wée haue good occasion to render vnto him thanckes. Dooe you thincke that that booke, wherein is described the voyage of Sainct Patricke and such other lyke, ful of fables, most sot∣tishe and brutish, were méete to giue any good doctrine vn∣to children, and that the newe testament had not bene a Page  27 better for them to haue in their handes? Truely wée are in a good way, forasmuch as wée bée already come vnto Saincte Patricke.

You knowe that thys caue is in Ireland.

Some place it in Ireland, and others in Scotland: It is all one to mee wheresoeuer it bée, for I will make no voyage thether.

It is all one also to mée. For those countries are not farre * distant the one from the other: It is inough for mée, so that I may finde it. For that cause I haue determined to goe thether out of hand. But since I heard our Ghostly Father, I will not goe before I haue first spoken wyth him: and after I wyll rule my selfe according to the coun∣saile that he will giue mee.

You doe either mocke or dreame?

That is no countrey, where∣of wée should mocke, forasmuch as all those that haue bene there haue lost their laughing and all reioysing.

It is then lyke vnto the denne of Throphonius, which is in the country of Lebadia, of which the auncient * writers haue written almost all after the same sort, as our dreamers haue done, of Sainct Patrickes hole or caue: and doubt not, but y^• the one fable hath engendred y^• other. Ne∣uerthelesse * I doe not yet thincke that you speake in earnest.

You thinke that I am such a mocker as you are.

If you bée not a mocker, you are then a dreamer.

I sléepe not whereby I should dreame.

No more also did our ghostly Preacher sléepe to day: I neuer in all my life heard such an olde dreamer dreame and take on in such sort. I beléeue no other thing but that he hath studyed in the schoole of some olde doting witch full of lyings, from which hee brought this diuinitie.

Are you not ashamed so to mock & speake against such a vertuous and learned man as he is.

I know not what knowledge and learning he may haue: But this I may surely say, that I neuer heard any thing of him, whereby I might knowe that there is either knowledge or wisdome in him. If he had studyed in humaino letters, I should haue thought that he had read that hée preached Page  [unnumbered] either in the Poetries or verses of Homere or Virgil, or of * some other Poets, as wel Greeke as Latine: or in Plutarke. For I am sure y^• in those Theologies a man shal finde that matter altogether entreated off almost after that sort as he hath declared vnto vs, and chiefly in Plutarke who decla∣reth * most meruailous thinges, that Timarchus hath séene in the denne of Trophonius, which differ but a little from those which we haue heard of our Ghostly father. But I greatly feare that he neuer profited so much in Greeke nei∣ther in Latine, that he could euer haue read those authours, nor that he coulde haue dnderstoode them, if hée shoulde haue read them. But for to speake as I thincke, I rather * beléeue that he hath read it either in the Sepheardes Cal∣lender, or in Dantes. What age is hée off?

Wherefore doe you demaund his age?

Bicause that if hée had lyued in the time of Alcestis and Protesi∣laus, either in the time of Hercules and Theseus, or in the time of Vlisses and Aeneas, whom the Poets doe witnesse & affirme to haue bene in hell, and that they haue visited all those countries and chambers, as well the Limbus patrum as Purgatory, and also those goodly and pleasaunt fieldes Eliseas, wée might presume and thincke that he hath spoken vnto them, and hath learned of them that Theology. But hée must bée then at the least more then a thou∣sande and nine hundreth yeares olde, and that hée must * bée twise so olde as Mathusala.

Haue wée not Lazarus whome Iesus Christ raised to lyfe who hath bene longe time after all those, who could tell what there is? For thou canst not saye that the same is a fable as the others are?

Yet the Ghostly Father could not haue spoken vnto him, except hée were at the least more then fiftene hundreth yeares olde. I doe not denie his resurrection, but I doe denie all those lyings which are added vnto the hi∣story of the Gospell.

Could he not very well haue heard it of those who through longe succession haue learned and vnderstanded it of those who haue hearde it of Page  28 Lazarus.

Héere are a great many of héeresaies, I would gladly knowe who was the first, vnto whom La∣zarus declared it, and whether Lazarus hath spoken more amply then Iesus Christ and all his Prophets and Apo∣stles. Doe wée not plainely sée howe wée doe ieste with God, tourning his woorkes and miracles into fables, and Poets inuentions? Could the enemies of our Religion do more? Doe not these olde dreamers who haue dreamed and inuented out such fables, make of Lazarus an other Al∣cestis, Theseus, Vlisses or Aeneas who are come from hell, for to declare what is done there? To what other end doo all th•s• inuentions and fabulous narrations of olde fooles serue. But for to call into doubt Gods truth, and for to giue occasion vnto the mockers and contemners of God and of his woord, to laugh and make a scoffe of the Christi∣an Religion, and the Doctrine of the Gospell. As Pitha∣goras, Lucrecia, Lucian and many others haue scoffed at the * fables and inuentions of the Poets, touching their Hell, and of the vaine credulitie and great foolishnesse of the ignorant people, who gaue credit vnto them. As we haue done to the dreames of those Caphards and •oltes, who would make so many partes of the infernall Regions, as the Cosmogra∣phers haue made of the earth. For as they haue deuyded * it into Asia, Africa and Europa: Euen so haue those deui∣ded the infernal habitations into the Limbus patrum, Pur∣gatory, & the hell of the dampned. And haue made all those countryes inhabited, and so full of people that there is not one little corner nor angle, but that all is full, chiefly in pur∣gatory, if we will beléeue our Priestes and Monkes. For the soules goe thether dayly by thousandes.

Our Lord Iesus Christ raised not Lazarus, nor the others, whom he hath called from death to lyfe, for to holde & kéepe men by such mockeryes, and for to make the worde of GOD lyke vnto the woorke of Poetes. For his simplicitie, grauitie, nor yet hys maiestye, can beare and suffer it. It sufficeth hym to teache * vs that there is a Hell, and wée ought to contente Page  [unnumbered] our selues therewith, without enquiringe where it is, nor what it is. For those who through the iust iudge∣ment of God shall bée there condemned, shall knowe it by prouing and féeling it to soone, and more then they would. The elect and blessed who through Iesus Christ are dely∣uered, study not to know any further, then God hath reuea∣led vnto them, that they haue felt it in their consciences, when they haue offended, and that they haue bene grie∣ued and pressed downe with the féeling of their sinnes.

What will you say if this Ghostly father be one * of Pithagoras Disciples, and of that same opinion? and that, the soule of euery one of them, whom of late the Poets doe witnesse to be descended into hel, were entered into his bo∣dy, insomuch that he was one of the very same?

Wée might very well haue thought no lesse, in hearing these dreames and lyes: But that wée knewe for certein that the opinion of Pithagoras is false (although that many among the Iewes are yet dronken therewith) & that the same which the Poets and Monkes haue inuented are nothing els but dreames and lyings. But yet although our Monke were some Theseus, Vlisses or Pithagoras, yet he might very well be deceiued. For sithence that those * were in those regions and countryes, the fire hath begun there to kindle, which hath burned all the wals of those dy∣uerse habitations and infernall chambers, forged, made and builded first by the Poets, and after wards by the Monkes and Priests, insomuch that there remained neither Limbus patrum, or yet Purgatory, but Hell onely, where that in∣extinguible fire is.

Y•u do speake of the Limbus patrum and of Purgatory, as though ther were none, & that the same that hath bene preached vnto vs, was inuented of pleasure, & that they were but fables. But doth not the Scripture make mention of it? do you thinke that so ma∣ny good prechers which haue ben in times past would haue taught such things, if they had not be• true?

I haue heard many preach y^• the children y^• are borne dead, * & all those which do die before t•ey be baptized, go straight Page  29 way vnto the Lymbus patrum wherein they haue their chambers aparte, seperated from hell and Purgatory, and that they shall neuer enter into Paradise, but that they shall be depriued for euer from y^• ioyes theroff. Afterwards there was nothing that I heard so much commended in the sermons, as the soules of Purgatory, vnto whom also they giue chambers apart, and doe kéepe them as prisoners, in those dungeons and prisons, vntill such time as they haue * payd their raunsome.

Doe you not stedfastly beléeue that the same is true, that ther is a Lymbe and a Purgatory?

I would beléeue it without a∣ny doubt or contradiction, if I had read it aswell in the olde * and new testament, as in the bookes of Plato and of Plu∣tarch and such other which were of the same opinion.

You ought yet to haue added amonge y^• Greeke Poets Orpheus, and Homere and Virgile among the La∣tine Poets: who haue so well described the Lymbe, hell, Purgatory, and the Popes paradise, that I thinke it is not possible to paynt and set them out better. And I cannot be∣léeue but that he was inspired with the same spirite by * which they haue spoken who haue forged and inuented vn∣to vs those Lymbes and Purgatoryes, and with which those were inspired, who did sit in the Councells in which such doctrine was allowed and confirmed: peraduenture he may finde some thing in the discription of Virgile which may seeme a lyttle to differ from the Popes Theologie: But notwithstanding if the matters are wel examined and tryed, one cannot finde so great errours, that for thein hée may be iudged an hereticke in the Popes church, nor yet repugnance which is not more easie to agrée, then to make Scotus and Thomas Aquinas to agrée together: the Reals * and No••alls, the Sophistes and Doctors questionaries that be among them.

But for to proue it, giue eare what the Poet speaketh •n such sort as I may speake in our propre tongue: And for to begin in order I wil recite vnt• thee first the •escription of t•e ••mbe• •here the children are, saying. Page  [unnumbered] Anone vvere voyces heard, and piteous cryes, and vvaylings sh••ll * Of soules of tender babes, and infants vveeping voyde of skill. That plesure svveet of life did neuer tast, but from their brest Vntimely death them tooke, and Fortune grim hath down opprest.

He giueth vnto the lyttle children their chamber apart, and appoynteth their dwelling at the entring in of hell, the which he describeth more horrible and fearefull, saying.

Ouer and besides these two places, he addeth yet two others, to wéete, Purgatory, and the fieldes E•seas, of which we will speake off héereafter when his tourne com∣meth. Now al these which are lodged in those diuers cham∣bers, are handled euery one of them according to their me∣rites, and punished after diuers sorts. For the torments and paynes are giuen vnto them eyther more grieu•ns and cruel, or els more tollerable & gentle, according to •ue∣ry ones mirites and desertes. He putteth and placeth a large prison, déepe, and darke, horrible and fearefull, in the most lowest part of hell, from which those shall neuer depart which once haue bene throwne therein. That pri∣son is the very hell it selfe, wherein the great and most grieuous sinnes and offences are punished, and that they are ••sanable and can by no meanes be purged, as these: sa∣criledge, murder, tyranny, vyolences, erecrable whore∣dome, and such other crimes, and chiefely those of the Ty∣rants, Kings, Princes and Lords, whom Plato of which * proceeded this Philosoph•e, lodged all in hell, if in sléede to be good Princes and Pastours, they haue bene tyrants, and the deuourers of the people.

I doe alrea∣dy héere perceiue a great agreeing with our Priests and Monkes. As concerning the Lymbes of the lyttle children, there is no more difference, but that Virgile putteth them all there, and our priests doe not lodge & put but those which Page  30 are dead without being baptized.

He is not so rude and vngentle vnto them. For he depriueth them not of all ioy and consolation, as these our priests do the poore little children of the Christians.

As touching hell I doe not much mistyke the opinion of Plato. First bicause it approcheth nigh to the veritie of the holy Scriptures, and that he declareth the iust iudgement of God vppon the ty∣rants. For it is good reason, sith that there is none who may chastice & correct them in this world, and y^• they will not be in subiection neyther to God nor man, but do what they list, they should haue double punishment in the other world: And that they should vomitte and spew vp agayne their great cruelties, vyolences, and great enormities that they haue committed, bicause they feared neyther iustice nor punishment.

Although that the wit∣nesse of the holy Scriptures is sufficient for vs, yet this ought further to moue vs, & to confound the Infidlls when * we doe see the vertue of the truth to be so puissaunt and of such force that it constrayneth Philosophers, Poets and o∣thers, who haue bene ignorant of the knowledge of God, to confesse it and to beare witnesse thereoff.

But me thinkes that our Priests and Monks do much differ from Plato & Virgile in y^• they do lodge y^• rich∣est people and the great Princes and Lords sooner in Pur∣gatory then in Hel.

Do you not know the cause? * There came no profite vnto Plato nor Virgile of the Pur∣gatory, as commeth vnto those, & beléeue that although they had any profite, they were of a better conscience, and that for their owne perticuler gayne they would not haue so se∣duced the poore ignorant people. For they do shew foorth by their writings, that they had a certeyne feare and know∣ledge of God, more then we may acknowledge in these our priestes. For they watche after the deade bodyes, as * the Rauens doe vppon carrion. And if they can méete with any dead man that hath his purse well stuffed with money, wherewith hée is able to paye his raunsome, they will be sure to make him tell who hath eaten the fat, Page  [unnumbered] they will put him in such a place, from whence hee cannot come out before they haue taken some fat from him. For they are the tyrants of tyrants and the pillers of the great * pillers and Ʋsurers, whom they will not suffer to be broi∣led and tormented of the Diuells, but they will be their hangmen themselues, take away that office from them to whom God hath giuen it.

They shalbe thē much tormēted by this accompt. For they shalbe cruelly handled in this world, and also in the other after their death, as they haue vexed b tormented y^• worlde whilst they were alyue. And suffer them not notwithstanding to fall into y^• hands of the Diuells. But I would gladly know what payne the other haue that haue committed smaller sinnes.

Plato and Virgile do lodge these in Purgatory, * especially the simple people & which haue not bene of great credite and authoritie. Wherefore they could not haue so great lycence to doe euill as the others. And if they had committed any fault, they had not the power so much to hurt the people as the others had. For the sinnes of the Princes doe not hurt onely themselues: But as well by them as by their euill example they doe hurte and destroye all the worlde, where the simple people doe hurt but them∣selues. And therefore they did thinke that their sins were sanable, and that they might be purged. For that cause, they condemned them not vnto eternall dampuation: For * they thought y^• they had not committed euils inough for to be damned, & that ther was some remedie to be healed. Al∣so they lodged them not at y^• first dash in y^• fields of bliseas, as the other great and vertuous men, who thorowe their vertue haue merited to be incontinently receiued into bles∣sednesse and toye, or in the number of Gods.

Those then which were good people, and which had not the power to doe so euill as the other, doe go into Purgatory against their wils. Neuertheles I am sure that God will not held them excused therfore. For •e regardeth the heart, will and the affections, and not onely the workes as the Philosophers doe. Our priests differ not much from Page  31 that opinion. For they Cannonise & lodge among the Saints * those whome they doe iudge to haue bene most vertuous and holyest and the soules perfectly good, the which doe fly straight into heauen, and haue no néede of our good déedes.

That is to wéete the most greatest Hypocrites, superstitious and Idolaters, & those which haue done most for them, and that haue best nourished and fed their fat bel∣lyes.

They doe lodge in Purgatory those who haue not accomplished héere their penaunce, which ne∣uerthelesse dyed confessed and repentaunt, or which do not carry deadly sinne with them, but onely veniall sinnes, the which may be purged by the fire. For there is some re∣medy for those.

Such is their doctrine: But notwithstanding when it commeth to triall, they neyther haue regarde to mortall nor yet veniall sinnes, but soo∣ner to the riches or to the pouertie. It is all one with them whether the sinnes be mortall or veniall, sana∣ble or insanable, so that the dead hath wherewith to paye their drougs & medicines, & money for his raunsome, and letters of grace that they make for them by their buls and pardons. And as touching the poore, of whome they haue no profite, it is to them all one whether they go, be it into Paradise, Hell, or Purgatory. For they haue no care of the soules, but onely of their purses.

I haue yet one thing to demaunde of thée. Doe they say that there is fire in y^• Poets Purgatory as there is in y^• of the priests?

It séemeth to mée that y^• Poets are a lyttle more reasonable and more merciful then the priests and Monks. For they make not such broyling and rosting of the poore soules.

How then?

Bicause that they haue assigned the payne a little easier and lyghter, ac∣cording to euery ones misdéedes. For they condempne not all generally to y^• fire. But they do make thrée differences, * according to the greatnesse and smalnesse of sinnes. Those that haue sinned most grieuously, and which are most full and stuffe• with sinnes, and which are most earthly and most hardest to be purged, béeing so harde glewed and tyed Page  [unnumbered] to the soule, that it cannot be pluckt away, nor made cleane by no meanes but thorow the fire, are put and cast into the hot furnace. For they must be melted all new agayne. The other that are not altogether so filthy & vile and that haue not their sinnes so glewed in the soule that one cannot pul them away, are holden for a certeine time within the great goulfes of water, for to be there washed and made cleane. Ther are yet others y^• are lesse faultie and guyltie, & which haue committed but certeyne small sins, that hath no neede of such strong purgation. And therefore they are hanged but a lyttle in the ayre for to winde them. For they néede but to haue a lytle winde for to blowe away the dust that * cleaueth fast to the soule, bicause of the coniunction that it hath with his body and his fleshe.

As farre as I perceiue they doe with the soules in that Purgatorye as we doe with our apparayle, sheetes, vessell and mettall. For when we haue any clothes, or shéetes that are dustie, or whereof we doubt the Moths and Wormes: we stretch them abroad and hang them vppon a pearch in the ayre for to winde and cleane them. And if ther be any spot or staine that will not easely come out, we wash them with water. And if that sufficeth not, we sope them, or put them in the bucke and bucke them, or els delyuer them to the scourers for to take out the steyne. Also if we haue mettall that is rusty and canckred & which hath néede to be made cleane, we cast it in the fire, which maketh it very cleane and con∣sumeth the drosse and rust and other false mettall, and se∣perateth it from the pure and fine mettall.

Thereby you maye knowe that the Poets haue had more witte and reason and better colour so to do then the Priestes. For they haue considered the nature of the sinnes, and of the sinners together, as a good Phi∣sition * doth behold the completion of those that are sicke, for to giue vnto euery one a conuenient and sit remedy for his disease.

For they haue regarde that mans bodye was made of the foure Elements, and that the completion and the affec∣tions Page  32 of man doe follow the temperatnesse of the body, and the nature of the elements, of which they were made. For∣asmuch then as the body is the house and habitacion of the soule, & that the soule hath bene holden within that earth∣ly body as in a prison, and darke dungeon, it is impossible, but that it is corrupted and defiled with the filthinesse of that infectious body, as he which shall depart out of an in∣fectious and stincking prison. And therefore Plato and the other Philosophers and Poets, which followed his opini∣on, haue thought, that the soules had néede of some pur∣gation, after that they were seperated from the body, bi∣cause that after their departing, it was impossible but that they should carry with them and kéepe some filthinesse of that corrupt flesh, bicause of the coniunction, conuersation and familiaritie, that they had together. Neuerthelesse bi∣cause that the bodyes are not all of one complexion, but according to the disposition and temperatenesse of the ele∣ments, of which they are made, some are more earthely and other some more heauenly, & according to the doctrine that they haue receiued, and the exercise that they haue had in vertue, some more vicious or vertuous then the others: Euen so haue they estéemed and thought that the soules did differ, according to the difference of the bodies from which they came out. They haue then considered that there are some sinnes that are more thin, easie & lighter then others, holding more of the nature of the ayre, and of the winde, then of the earth. And therefore they must purge them by the element, which approcheth néerest to their nature, and which séemeth for them the best remedie.

The others that are more heauy and wayghtie, as the water is more heauyer and wayghtyer then the ayre and winde, are washed in the water: For they doe holde most of the nature of the water. And therefore they put them in the bucke, wherein they driue, beat and wash them ve∣ry cleane.

Besides those there are other more wayghtyer and hea∣uyer and altogether earthlye, whome neyther the wynd• Page  [unnumbered] nor the water can make cleane. And therfore y^• Soules that haue ben so defiled with y^• filthinesse of their vile & wicked body, & so much giuen vnto y^• pleasures of y^• body, that they are almost degenerated & become earthly, are purged by the fire. For thei haue néede of a hotter & stronger elemēt for to purifie them, and for to consume all filthe and drosse, that there remayne nothing but the pure mettall of the celesti∣all nature. For contraries are healed by contraries. But least you should thinke that I am the authour and inuen∣tour of that Philosophie, and that I speake these thinges of mine owne head and for my profite, behold how the Po∣et speaketh, in whose verses you shal finde comprised in few words a great part of that Platonicall & Plutarchall The∣ologie, where he writeth of the soules seperated from the body after this manner.

I doe thinke that the Alcumistes haue taken theire foundacion vppon that Philosophie•. For that is the true manner for to extract the fifte essence. But I thinke that those Phisiciens of the soules had néede to sée their v∣rine for to make them better know their complexion, and to giue vnto them the medicine and purgation méete for the same.

It should be then néedefull that the Soules that are in Hell and in Purgatorye shoulde aswell haue, Esculapius or Cosme and Daiman for their Phisiti∣ous, Page  33 as the Gods and Saints haue in heauen, and by a * better reason. For the Gods and the Saints haue no more néede neither of medicine nor of purgation as the poore soules haue that are kept in Purgatory. I know not how the auncient Poets and Painims haue gyuen vnto Mer∣cury the office of Phisicke, for to practice his medicines in * Hell, with which hée guideth the soules, for to make them to passe ouer the floudes by Charon the ferry man: For he had bene very méete and proper for the soules.

But when they shall haue a Phisition, who shall bée their Poticary, for to make their drouges?

The Priestes, which haue their shops full, * and are better furnished with them then euer the Panims were, which had chiefly thrée sortes of drougs, for the pur∣gacions as well of the quicke as the dead, the which Ouid hath comprehended in thrée woordes, saying:

Besides these purgations of the water, fire, & brimstone, * they had also their holy winnowinges or faminges, which they vsed chiefly at the feastes and sacrifices of God Bac∣cus, the which they made with a fanne consecrated for that pourpose.

Beholde the dreamings where∣in men doe fall, yea the most wisest, when they gyue them∣selues * to play the Philosopher with heauenly things after their owne fantasie and minde without the spirite of God, and that they doe séeke the purgation of their sinnes in their purgatories, besides Iesus Christ.

Mée thinckes that wée doe yet reteine al∣most all those customes. For wée doe light and offer tor∣ches, tapers and candels of Waxe, as well for the dead, as for those that are aliue. And the first thing that we must haue, when one dyeth, are the torches to leade hym to hye graue. And all the yeare after wée must haue Candels lighted vpon his Sepulcher, and after to offer them vnto * the Priestes.

It is bicause they sée not.

Whom do you meane? the Priests or those that bée dead?

Both the one & the other. We cannot deny but that the dead bodyes haue lost their sight, & that they are in darkenesse, as touching their body. But neuerthelesse the shining and brightnesse of the torches * serueth them to no pourpose. I thincke also that the soule hath no neede of them. For if it goe into Paradise, it hath the Angels to carry it thether, as the soule of Lazarus was carryed by the Angels into Abrahams bosome. For that * hath light inough and the Angels also wyth the brightnesse of God. Wherefore they haue not to doe wyth our light, that cannot serue for the soule, but for the body onely. If the soule goe into hell, there are guides inough for to bring it thether, and it is not nowe necessary that we do giue light to it. It hath the Angels of Sathan altogether contrarie to the other Angels to carry it thether.

But if it go into Purgatory, for that it is so déep, hath it no néede of light for to conduct them through those darke places?

If that which they saye bée true, there is fire inough, without putting any more vnto it. And if that fire bée not sufficient for them, I thincke that the light of our torches cannot giue light there. For if the Sunne beames and his brightnesse cannot enter and pearce through, what may wée hope of our fire? You may then vnderstande by these reasons that all these lights serue nothinge at all for the dead, nor profite them, neither for the body nor yet the soule. It must be then that they doe profite the Priestes, or els it is a lost labour. But wherein can they serue for them? For if they bee blinde, and that the Sunne light hel∣peth them not, no more shall they see by the illumination of the torches and candels. If they doe see cléere inough, they haue no néede: for the cléerenesse of the Sunne ought to suffice them: except they buryed them in the nyght, as the Panims dyd bury the poore that had not money to pay for their funerall pompe.

It must then bée that they are eyther madde * & out of their wyt, or els that they would shew by the same, Page  34 that those that do such things are fooles and depriued of all vnderstanding.

I thincke that they would do * as Diogenes did, who at noone dayes lighted a candle, and did séeke for men in the middle of the Market wyth a lan∣terne.

To what pourpose dyd hée the same?

For to make men to vnderstande, that they were beastes wythout reason and vnderstanding, and that hée had much a doe to finde men, that is to saye, wyse men, both of wit and iudgement, although hée sought them with a lanterns. Should hée not haue more occasion to doe the same nowe at this present time? For to what ende do all those lights serue, but for to declare that we are the succes∣sours * of the Panims who after the same sort vsed torches, and candels at the burials and funerals of their dead? For we haue not read in all the holy Scriptures that euer the true seruauntes of God haue lighted candels for the dead. Nor that they were euer in such superstition. Also we néed not to doubt but that the holy Water wherewith wée * sprinkle the graues of the dead, is also taken of the immita∣tion of the Panims.

I doubt it not. It is very true, that the aun∣cient * people of God had certeine washings & certeine bap∣tismes, for their purifications: not that they did thinck that the filthinesse and vncleanenesse of the soule & conscience, could be washed & made cleane, by the water & corruptible Elements. For sith that the soule is a spirit, it must haue a spirituall purgation, agreeing to his nature, and not cor∣porall.

What profit then do they receiue of such ceremonies?

They did the same for to te∣stifie & witnesse that they were sinners, polluted & vncleane, and that they had need of a purgation, the which they could not finde in themselues, but muste séeke it of others. Foras∣much then as they acknowledge themselues sinners, and in makinge open confession by those exteriour and outwarde washings, and do witnesse that the bloude of Iesus Christ was necessarie for them for the washinge awaye of their sins, they pleased by that obedience and confession, God, Page  [unnumbered] and by the faith that they had in Iesus Christ, •figured by those ceremonies and sacramentes, whom they did looke for to bée their Sauiour. They did truely communicate the bloud of Iesus, which for them ought to haue bene shed, as wée doe by the baptisme, sauing but that wée had all things more excellent then they. But wée doe not finde that they euer baptized the dead, nor sprinkled their Sepulchres with coniured Water.

Wée reade that the heathen Priestes vsed in their purgations, the water of the sea, with which they sprinckled that which they would purge: * Of which Proclus that noble Philosopher the Platonist yeldeth the reason, saying that such water hath the proper∣tie to purge, bicause it is salt, and that the salt hath in it some portion of the fire, and holdeth somewhat of his Na∣ture. That same maketh mée to thincke that our Priestes for that same cause dyd put salte in their holy Water. For before they dyd coniure the Water, they dyd first coniure the salte, and after dyd put it into the Water.

They dyd it after the example of Eliseus.

But Eliseus dyd not cast the salt into the * water, for to coniure the Diuels there wyth, but hath done it for to purge and make it cleane, bicause that it was in∣fected and poisoned, so much y^• none could drincke of it. And notwithstanding that Eliseus dyd put salte in it, yet neuer∣thelesse the salt of his nature had not the propertie to correct and amend the corruption of the Water, if the vertue of God had not wrought and done it nuraculously: As it is declared by the applications of the thinges, which Iesus * Christ vsed, as in putting the spittle vpon the tongues of those that were dumme, for to make them speake: or vpon the eyes of the blinde, for to make them see: or wythin * the eares of those that were deafe for to make them heare: not bicause that hée coulde not dooe that wythout suche applications, as hée hath very well declared in a * great many other of his woorkes: For howe oftentimes hath hée healed them in touching them onely, either by * the hand, as the leapers, or by y^• gowne, as y^• woman which Page  35 was diseased with the issue of bloude, and others, with∣out either séeing or touching them, as the son of y^• Centu∣rion: * But euen as thereby hée woulde declare that al pro∣céeded from his vertue and power, & not of the creatures. Also sometime hée vsed them for to let vs to vnderstande, that when hée woulde they shoulde serue, hée gaue them such vertue and propertie as it pleaseth him, & for to learne vs that wée ought not to despise the meanes that hée hath * gyuen vnto vs, how vile soeuer our reason iudgeth them to bée. For whatsoeuer they may bée, so that hee hath ordei∣ned them, and that wée haue hys promise, wée muste not doubt but by them hée doth that which hée hath promy∣sed. Therefore hée hath taken thinges, which had not of their owne nature the vertue to bringe to passe those ef∣fectes, to whiche they haue bene applyed, that all men might knowe, that from hym onely procéeded the vertue, and not of any ordinary or naturall cause. But these miraculous woorkes, are nothinge at all lyke vnto those which our Priestes doe: and theire ceremonies, haue not such promises. If by that they could remedy she cor∣rupt waters, as Eliseus did, we will acknowledge the gyft to woorke myracles to bée in them which was in Eliseus. But to what ende serueth the salt in the water?

To what ende serueth it to bée put into the * mouthes of the little children, when they baptize them?

As much as their spittle profited the infants béeing put into their mouthes, vppon the tongue and vp∣pon the eares.

Mée thinckes that I doe see Apes, which would counterfet al y^• woorkes of Iesus Christ: * At the least wise all their dooings are as those of the Apes, which doth but little and yet euill. If they could by their spittle make the little children and those that are dumme * speake: or make the blinde sée, and the deafe heare, I would counsaile them to vse it often: But if I had a little childe, I would not haue that such swinish & pockie Merchaunts as are among them should breath ouer his face, nor put their spittle in his mouth. They doe call their salt, y^• salt of wis∣dome: Page  [unnumbered] And in stéed to season vs & to make vs wise through the salt of the woord of God: They salt vs in the throat at * the baptisme. I thincke that they feared y^• the wine would not abide drincking, & that we should not be good bibbers. Wherefore they would season vs in good time. I beléeue that they greatly feared least we should become Turkes, and least we should cast vp the wine, if they salted not wel the throate, as men doe vnto their shéepe. If they coulde with their salt make the fooles to become wise, I woulde * thinck it good to salt al the foolish people as men do salt the fat larde, throughout all the body not onely in the throat.

I would not giue y^• counsaile. For then the salt would ware very déere, if Saloman hath said true, wry∣ting, * that the number of the fooles are infinit. Hlilarius. Thy reason is good. For y^• inconuenience which thou spea∣kest off would follow, and an other more greater: To wéet, that S. Maturyn who healed the fooles, should loose his oc∣cupation: Besios that I beléeue that the salt, although there * be great quantitie & store of it, wil not much profit y^• soules when the Priestes doe mingle them with the Water. For the disease is very incurable. But for to retourne to our Priests, I doo beléeue that of that salt & Water, they would make such potage for the soules, as my Mother did * once make for hir selfe & for me & my little brother which were not much aboue twelue or xiij. yeares of age, with∣out putting into it eitheir Oile or Butter, bicause that she would haue vs to fast with hir with bread & water: For if ther had bene any fatnesse in the broth or potage, it had not bene a perfect fast. If it bée so, our Priests on this side the sea, which dwell farre from it, should haue better coulour & cause to salt & season the water, then those y^• dwell hard by it. For if they would make potage for the soules, they shall finde inough of such sodden Water in the sea, & they shall not néede to seeke after the example of Eliseus for to make him their Authour: For he was neuer such a Cooke: But * they must giue the honour of that inuētion vnto Pope A∣lexander the first of that name. For if they will purge the Page  36 dead through water, I woulde gyue them counsaile ra∣ther * to wash them altogether with hotte Water, as the Panims dyd theirs, and call that washing the last bath or washing, euen as our Priests doo call their last an cling or vnction, the latter Sacrament: In which they doe héerein differ from the Panims, that they anoynted men a lyttle before they dye, & the Panims anointed them afterwardes. Wherefore their vnction was a little more latter. But least you should thincke that I speake wythout authori∣tie, as many Diuines and Preachers doe, when they doo preache their owne fables and dreames, I will bring out first for mine Authours that auncient Poet Ennius, saying.

And Virgile speakinge of the burninge of Misenus, sayth:

If the water could any thing profite the deade, it were better to make for them a great bath, & to plunge all their body, in a great tub of Water, and to wash them well for a good space, then to sprinckle them so little. For me séemeth that that manner of dooing is more proper for to kindle the fire of Purgatory, if the Water doth descend thether, then for to quench it. And the same I wyll proue by au∣thoritie and by examdle. I wyll first proue it by the au∣thoritie of many good Phisitions, which say that when a man is very drie for want of drincke, it is better for him to drincke a good draught at once then to sippe often: For that same doth not quenche the heate that is in the body, but kindleth it the more. And to the ende that * it doe not séeme that they speake that wythout reason, they doe also alleadge the example of the Smythes, Page  [unnumbered] the which I will bring foorth for my seconde argument, which is infallible, inasmuch as it is alwayes confirmed by experience. For wée sée that when they woulde haue their * coales burne well, and to giue great heat they sprinckle thē with water, which they haue alwayes ready, wyth a little sprinckle or besome, as the Priestes haue them in their ho∣ly water stocke. There is yet an other reason, for which I doe finde the manner of the Panims better and more low∣able, bicause that at the leastwise that shall serue for the dead, for to proue whether they bée dead or not: For it * chaunceth oftentimes through some disease, that the spirite is so locked and enclosed in the body, that man loseth al∣together his breath, in such sort that one can by no meanes perceiue it, but iudgeth him to bée dead, and so hée is decei∣ued. By that meanes sometimes some haue bene bury∣ed quicke: The which thing ought very much to bée fea∣red in all suffocations and chokings, and chiefly of the ma∣trice * of women, and also in the time of the pestilence or plague: wherein many times it hath bene found that they * haue brought to bée buryed those who were found aliue. Wherefore it is not méete to bury any dead body to so∣deine, especially when hée dyeth sodeinly. For y^• may very well sometime happen vnto man, which we haue proued in some beastes, namely in the Dormouse, which haue bene * found so fast of sléepe in the Winter, that it is not possible to awake them: As it hath ben many times proued in some of them, who although they were cut a sunder in the mid∣dle did not wag nor stur vntill such time as they are put in∣to hot sething water. And to that ende and pourpose ma∣ny * Historiographers and namely Pliny maketh mention of one Attilius Auiola, & Lucius Lamia, that after that their bodies were cast vpon the woode for to be burned after the custome of the auncient Romaines, did stand right vp when they felt the heate of the fire, and there taried stil. For none could succour & helpe them bicause y^• fire was kindled about them, but were burned all aliue.

Those haue no néed to go into purgatory. For they haue ben purged inough Page  37 alredy.

For y^• cause y^• panims dyd not burne the bodyes of those that dyed incontinently, but kept them sea∣uen dayes, and washed them in hot water, and bewayled and lamented them with a loude voyce many times, as we * doe vnto those that doe sounde or faynt, when any faynt∣nesse of heart hath taken them. And after when they haue bewayled them the last time, they doe burne them the eight day, and the nynthe day they bury their ashes. For that cause doe they also celebrate the nyne dayes feaste for the soule of the dead.

If that which you speake off be true, we do but a lyttle differ from them. For our priests doe cry after them with so loud a voyce, that if they be not deafe or altogether dead, they would awake.

There is no difference, but that we are more foolish & more mad then the Panims. For the Panims do not crye after the dead, but vntill they are burned and their ashes buryed: But our Priestes doe crye after them ouer their Tombes and Sepulchers, twentie, thirtie, fortie, yea a hundreth yeares after their death, and although they are altogether consumed to duste. But I finde them a greate deale wiser and better aduised in that matter, for that they doe sprinkle theire Sepulchers with water onely, and not with wine, as the Panims that did shed out great aboun∣daunce of wine, and milke vppon the Sepulchers, and * more lyberally then those doe the holy water.

They were very fooles, doe they thinke that that wine descendeth into Purgatory, for to giue drincke to the soules of the dead, or the bodyes that were in the Sepul∣chers?

We are asmuch fooles if we do thinke that the holye water, wherewith we sprinkle the Sepul∣chers and Churchyards, doth descend into Purgatory for to quench and put out the fire. For when the priest maketh his Asperges in the Masse, and in casting the holy water vppon the people, if he doe sée any that putteth not off his cappe or bonet for to receiue that holy coniured and char∣med water, he cryeth out vppon him and calleth him Lu∣therian and Hereticke. Neuerthelesse if their holy water Page  [unnumbered] had such strength to penetrate and goe thorow into Purga¦tory, it is meruayle if it cannot aswell pearce and goe tho∣row a cappe or bonet, without putting it of the head.

From whence thinke you that that manner to * sprinkle the Scpulchers with water did first come?

Truly I know not: excepte it be done in stéede that as the Panims after the burninge did sprinkle with water all those that were there present, for to purifie them * from the pollution and filth that they might receiue, in ap∣proching nigh the dead: with which they did thinke them∣selues defiled. And in stéede that the Panims did purifie those that be alyue, our Priestes will purifie those that bée dead, and when they are vppon the earthe and vnder the earthe: Or peraduenture that custome first came or tooke his beginninge, for that the Panims did decke and * beautifie their Sepulchers with goodly flowers. After∣wards they sprinkeled them with water, to make them con∣tinue the longer fresh and swéete. The which is vsed at * this day in the country of Bigore, in the Citie of Bag∣nieres hard by the hills Pyrenes: And amonge some other Christians, aswel in Almaigne as in other countryes, who doe put hats or garlands of flowers, eyther of Baye or of Iuye within the béere vnder the body of the dead, bicause they should kéepe a long time their verdure and swéetnesse. But bicause peraduenture you may desire the witnesse of all these things, which I haue now declared vnto you of the Panims, I would y^• you should heare thē speake them∣selues, as already before we haue done it, translating word for woorde their Latine verse into Englishe rime, to the end that they may kéepe the better their stile.

Marke well then the Prince and chiefe of the Poets, touching the cryes and lamentations that they make after the dead, speaking after this manner of the burying of Po∣lidorus.

And as touching the effusion of the wine, the sprinck∣lyng of the water and of flowers, the which he hath com∣prised altogether, marke what he sayth at the funeralls of Misenus.

And in an other place speaking of the Anniuersary that Aeneas did for his father Anchises sayth.

Thou hast heard the words of the Poet, or at the least the sence of them, which haue giuen mée occasion to thinke that which I haue tolde vnto thée. Neuerthelesse it may bée that our priests haue inuented that manner to sprinkle the Sepulchers with water, for to spare the wine, the whiche they had rather drincke then to shedde it, and they will not bée so prodigall in spending the wyne so much as they doe the water.

We doe not spare it therefore. For we are compelled to giue drinke to the soules all the yeare.

We are the more fooles: But our Priestes are wiser then the Panims. For they haue no regarde to giue the soules drinke, nor to poure it vppon the earthe, for to sprinkle the Sepulchers: but doe poure it into their bel∣lyes, and sprinkle their consciences, and will keepe the lawe of Numa ky•e of the Romaynes, saying: Doe * Page  [unnumbered] not poure out the wine vppon the ashes and Sepulchers of * the dead.

They are then the Lieuetenaunts of the soules, but I would haue no such Lieuetenants at my table. I had rather to giue them charge to fast for mée, then to eate, & had rather haue them héerem my Lieuetenants. But let vs also speake of the wynnowings that you haue set foorth for the thirde manner of Purgatory, y^• which the auncients had and vsed. I know not whether we vse them towards the dead: But I haue séene them vsed towardes those that be alyue. I haue séene them vsed towardes those that be alyue. I haue séene the priestes to winde the women and lyttle children with the platine, messell and cor∣porall cloth in the Masse. But I know not to what end the * winde can serue for y^• soules in Purgatory, but for to blow their fire.

I would counsayle them to haue a Fanne, as the Panims had, which was made holy for to make their holy winnowings. When I haue throughlye considered it, I doe thinke that our Priestes and Monkes cannot giue so good reason of y^• that they do, as y^• Panims. And for to tell the truthe, mée thinketh that they are lyke vnto those Emperiques, that haue but one receyte for all * diseases and complexions, for al ages, times and countries, who doe kil more then they do heale: or for to make y^• com∣parison * more proper, they make me to remēber those Sur∣gions which doe grease those that haue the goute and the pocks, whome they cause al to passe thorow their furnace, for to melt them all anew.

Sith that they dispise and contemne the * Gospell, and that by the same they will not be made newe creatures, forsaking their olde Adam, & the concupiscence of their flesh, it is good reason, that they haue such Smithes and melters for to make them new agayne. And sith that men doe make no punishment. God through his iust iudge∣ment will make them to feele that fire, for to quench the fire of concupiscence which burneth in their heart and vaines, if they can consider it, which is for theire profite, and to draw them from their whoredome.

Men haue * now founde out, that they can heale thorow the dyet with∣out Page  39 melting them.

I doe greatly feare, that if our Priests & Monkes learne none other occupation and science, & that they finde out none other drougs for to purge sinnes, that they shall not finde héereafter any great trade, but shalbe constrayned to make the dyet themselues, and the Alcumy with their téeth, the which they doe feare great∣ly. For men will giue them so lyttle to eat, that I greatly doubte that they néede not to learne to faste and to lyue in more greater sobrietie and abstinence, for to coole them a little. For sith that the fire hath begun to kindle with in their furnace, as Theophilus hath sayd, and that all is consumed and burned except hell, it is much to be feared that the re∣gister and rentall of theire reuenues with all their rentes * that come vnto them yearely of Purgatory be not altoge∣ther consumed and melted. I doe thinke that there is no * better remedy for to correct their whoredome, & to learne them sobrietie and to kéepe a good dyet, then to take from them their Purgatory. Wherfore y^• Souldiers were not al∣together * euill aduised, nor did not euill vnderstande that matter, who aunswered to those holy fathers, in stéede of a great curse when they saluted them, with their Pax vo∣bis & pax sit huic Domini: Dominus auferat vobis Pur∣gatorium. O holy father (say they.) They doe praye that the Souldiers may haue peace, and the Souldiers to the contrary doe pray for them that God would take from them their Purgatory. And doe shew the reason. For wee lyue saye they by the warre, as you doe of Purgatorye, and you would take it from vs, and giue vnto vs peace. Wher∣fore we pray vnto God that he would also take from you the Purgatory, and you shalbe as much estonished as we, and doe thinke that you shall haue no more to eate their we haue.

You are of his opinion whome I demaunded not long since the exposition of a place that is in the Gos∣pel, * in which Iesus Christ speaking of him y^• was possessed with a Diuell, whom his Disciples could not heale, saith: This kinde of Diuells cannot be driuen out but by fasting Page  [unnumbered] and prayer.

What exposition doth he giue vn∣to thée vppon the same?

That the Priestes and Monkes were of that kinde of diuells, that they can∣not be driuen away but by prayer and fasting, and there∣fore saith he, giue them nothing to eate, but let them fast as long as they haue made you fast, and pray vnto God for them.

Beholde a verie good receite, the which will not cost verie much at the Apothicaries.

But wée must not so iest and scoffe with Gods woorde.

Notwithstanding he that aunswered vnto me so and vnto many other that were present, was one of your people and one of your goodly gospellers.

I denye not but that wee haue many such, which are good * gospellers in not giuing any thing vnto the Priestes, nor yet in offering any thing vnto them. But that is not suf∣ficient: Sith that they accompt the Priestes and Moukes for Diuells, I woulde gladly that they should practise with themselues that doctrine of Iesus Christ, and that they woulde not be onely gospellers in eating of flesh all dayes a like, and in not offering no more vnto the Priestes, nor vnto their images: But that they woulde giue themselues to pray vnto God, to deliuer his Church from false prophets and sheperdes, and for to prouide true Priestes that doe confesse and preach his gospell. And to the * ende that their prayers should be the more feruent & done with greater faith, I do also desire that they woulde liue more soberly then they haue done, and that they would fast after the manner of the true seruauntes of God, for to bee more attentiue and feruent in their prayers, and that they woulde giue almes vnto the poore, of the goods of Iesus Christ that men haue stollen from his members, for to giue them to the Priestes.

I am of thine opinion. For as touching the riside we, I sée that almost euerye one wilbe come a gospeller in that point, that is in giuing little vnto y^• Priestes. But after all these matters, I would gladly that you woulde declare vnto me, when and howe the fire hath first begun in Purgatorie, and sithence what Page  40 time it is burned?

Sithence that the Gospel of Iesus Christ hath béene preached by the Apostles.

Me thinketh that you speake against Hillarie, * and al the catholicke Church. For if it had béene burned so long time agon, what Purgatorie should the Priestes haue had sithence?

You must vnderstande, that sithence the ruines and decayed places thereof haue béene repayred and amended by them, as an old house that men doe reedifie & amend, after that it is decayed. But sithence these thirtie or twentie yeares, the fire hath begun to kin∣dle againe, and hath consumed and wasted it altogether. Therefore I doe say, that either the holy father the prea∣cher was neuer there, or else it is long time sithence: Wherefore he coulde not be aduertised of the houshold that they kéepe there.

Then I pray you, where∣fore is not Hell as well burned which is more dangerous, * & in which there is greater fire, then either in y^• Limbe, or in Purgatorie?

If you had well vnderstan∣ded that which hath béene alreadie told you, I néeded not nowe to satisfie againe your demaunde. The Limbe and Purgatorie are burned bicause they were builded and set vp with mens hands, who can make no worke to continue any long time, but that it wilbe rotten in longe continu∣ance, or else destroyed with the fire whiche consumeth all * things. But hell is an other thing: there are verie stronge walles, which will continue for euer. For euen as God, which is eternall hath builded with his owne hande those goodly celestiall pallaces, and hath planted that pleasant and delectable paradise, for to receiue his children and seruants into the fruition and pleasure of the eternall life and feli∣citie: So hath he constituted & appointed for to giue vnto the wicked according to their iniquitie, and to punish them as a righteous iudge for their execrable crimes & offences, the fire of Hell in which y^• worme dieth not nor y^• fire is ne∣uer * quēched. For as witnesseth y^• prophet Esay: The Lord doth breath forth, thorow y^• wind of his wrath & indignatiō, & doth cause the flouds of Brimstone to flow out for euer, Page  [unnumbered] thorow his wrath and vengeance, insomuch that there is neuer fire there lacking.

But how hath the fire begun in Purgatory rather sitheus the time that you haue spoken, then it did before?

I do mer∣uayle that in this so long time it hath not bene done, and how it could so long continue, considering the tyranny that was there exercised. For sithens that it was reedyfied and buylded agayne, ther went no more any into Paradise nor yet into Hell, but all taryed in Purgatory. Ther was ney∣ther poore nor rich but that all were put in there: and they could not be suffered to depart although that they had paid their raunsome two or thrée times, especially when there is wherof to take. For there are such, that after they haue bene kepte there already one or two hundreth yeares, yet they haue bene constrayned to disburse yearely, dayly and hourely new money, for to haue bulls and pardons, for to haue Masses, Ʋigiles, Requiems, Libera me, and for to celebrate Yereminds, Anniuersaryes, for to pay obites, and a great many other sorts of gatherings, tributes and rents, that it is impossible to number them.

I thinke that there should be goodly and rich mines of gold & siluer. I know not whether that fire hath melted & consumed it al together. For ther was in times past great store, that almost all the golde and siluer of the world, and all the riches and treasures of the Christians are all gone thether. The Panims held Pluto for the God of hell and of riches, bicause they thought him to dwell in * those low countryes, to which the soules did goe: and by∣cause that all the treasures and riches doe come from the earth, and that one shall finde th•r the mynes of gold and of siluer. But the more I do thinke on the folly of the Pa∣nims, so much the more doe I finde ours to be out of rea∣son, sauing that we haue in deede that which they had but in figure and imagining. For we haue the Pope which is the very Pluto. For he hath both Hell and Paradise to sell. Hée is kinge of Hell, Lymbe and of Purgatory. Hée is Eacus, Minos, and Radamantus. For he iudgeth the •oore Page  41 soules, as it pleaseth him, and condemneth them to the Lim∣be, Purgatory or in hell when it pleaseth him, & as often as he séeth good. And God knoweth what mines of golde and siluer, what treasures & goods he draweth vnto him: in such sort that we may very well call him Pluto, Mammon, God of the earth and vnder the earth, king of Hell and of all his territories. The more I consider the thing, so much y^• more it maketh me astonied. For I haue read many histories which make mention of many Tyrants and great théeues, which haue bene couetous and raueners without all mea∣sure: But I know not, whether a man shall finde many, or * one onely that hath caused tribute to be paide by the dead, as be doth dayly among the Christians. If one shall finde any, I beléeue at the least that he hath not so long compel∣led the dead to pay tribute. Wée may very well say that among the Christians is accomplished the prouerbe of the auncientes, who speake of those that with wrong & violence * goe about to haue and catch, they demaund tribute of the dead and the meale and flowre of Images: willing also by that kinde of speaking, to rebuke those that wil enrich them∣selues by vnhonest & vnlawfull meanes, & which dooe séeke profit of those small & vile thinges, as the Emperour Ves∣pasian, who caused tribute to be paide of the vryne: and of vile things, as of bawdry, euen as the Pope did that recei∣ued tribute of whoores and of brothell houses that are at Rome. One may also speake it of those that get money of all men, without any difference either of friendes, poore or * of the beggers, and in the ende, of those that are deade. But that Prouerbe coulde neuer bée better applyed, then to our Priestes and Monkes. Vespasian althoughe hée was otherwyse a good Emperour, hath bene taxed of couetousnesse for that tribute that hée receyued of the vryne. And when his sonne Titus who was ashamed, * admonished him, hée caused him to smell at hys nose the money hée receyued, afterwarde asked hym, whether hée dyd smell the vryne? When Titus had aunswered hym, that no, hée sayde vnto him then? All sauour is good Page  [unnumbered] so that money doe come. The sauour of the gaine is good which way soeuer it doe come and of what thing soeuer it * bée. Our Priestes haue kepte well that prouerbe and knowe very well to practise it. For notwithstanding that the dead carrens of whom they take money, doe stincke, it sufficeth them so that the money doth not stincke. The Romaine Princes haue bene in the olde time much de∣spised, * for that they haue digged vp the monuments of the Corinthians, and haue carryed awaye their Images and pictures of brasse. But what shall men say of these héere? They are not content with the dismes, prebendes, benefi∣ces, rentes and reuenewes that they haue continually, but * wée must gyue them newe money dayly, after that wée bée conceyued in our Mothers belly, vntill an hundreth yeares after wée bée deade and more. If our Mother that beareth vs doe take any hurt bicause of hir childe, shée shall make incontinently a vowe vnto some Sainct, and shall cause Masses to bée sayde, and shall bringe money vnto the Priest, and shall binde hir sonne to kéepe the vowe and to doe the like when he commeth to age. Are wée not already appointed to paye a raunsome in our Mothers belly? Doe wée not begin to pay tribute, before wée bée borne? Afterwardes if the childe bée borne? hée shall not bée baptized, nor can be a Christian, excepte you dooe * paye money. Beholde the happy houre that wée haue immedeatly at the enteringe into the Churche. Muste the childe bée anealed and confirmed? hée must paye, for they will not laye onely their handes vppon hym, nor hée * shal not haue the holy Oyle & Creame, except that he haue * ready money. Will hée bée confessed? hée must paye. Will he haue Masses & prayers said for him? he must pay. Will hée receiue the Lordes supper? he must buye Iesus * Christ with ready money.

Yet their money were but a small try∣fle and a thing of nothing, if that that they did, were accor∣dinge to Gods ordinaunce: But it is altogether contrary.

Will hée marrie? hée cannot bée wedded * Page  42 but that hée must paye. Will hée bée a Priest? GOD * knoweth howo oft hée must put his hande into his pourse before y^• he hath passed thorow all their orders. But after hée wyll make the poore people paye for it. Doth hée fall sicke and will hée bée anealed? and haue his last Sacra∣ment? * hée must paye. I dooe not knowe howe, but that wée maye bée all good Arithmeticians, althoughe wée haue neuer séene Arithmaticke nor yet castinge of ac∣comptes. For wée doe practise all our lyfe tyme no o∣ther * science with them. Wée néede not to sende our children vnto Schoolemaisters for to learne them to ac∣compte, cifre and number. For they maye learne verye well with them. They will neither consecrate nor con∣iure not so much as a stone, chalice, candle, or a droppe of water, they will not so much as lifte vp their hande for to make a crosse and blesse but with two fingers wythoute putting out all their hande, without some hope of gaine. They will not so muche as to blesse a roote, a graine of * salte, or of wheate, an egge or a morsell of chéefe, or a roote when one woulde séeth it, or the scrippe or hooked staffe of a Pilgrime, when hée woulde goe on his voiage, or the ringe or the bed of one that is wedded, but that they must haue some thing.

They do meddle with a great many of things if they doe all that.

Their Missels, Portesses and Manuels may beare wytnesse, if you will not beléeue mée. But you may well perceiue and knowe that they haue not innen∣ted all those manner of dooinges, but thereby the better to get money euery where, the which they gette verye easely and without any great trauaile, but onely in making of crosses, and mumblinge some wordes after the manner of inchaunters. But into what daunger I doe caste my selfe? I had rather to drawe out all the water of the sea, then to declare all the manner of the pillings that they dooe vnto vs. The Historiographers dooe accompte as de∣testable crymes the tributes, and vnhoneste gaynes, Page  [unnumbered] the rapines and extorcions that the Tyrantes and Ro∣maine * Emperours haue exercised, chiefly Caligula & Nero: But these héere wyll iustifie them and accompt them for good men in respect of them, if that time shoulde continue a little longer. It is written of Caligula (who was so bolde that he would be worshipped as God, & hath builded a tem∣ple in his honour during his lyfe) that hée spared neither * man nor any thing whatsoeuer it bée, to the which hée hath * not laide some tribute. Hée receiued certeine tribute of all manner of vittaile that are solde in the Citie. There was neither plaint, proces, cause nor iudgement, of which he toke not the fortie part of the summe for which the controuersy was, insomuch that if the plaint had bene fortie thousande crownes, he would take a thousād for his part. He receiueth * the eight part of the gaine that the poore get pence, iangel∣lers, log carriers, and other like did dayly gette. Also the common harlots and whoores must not onely pay vnto him when & as often as they did commit whoredome, but did al∣so compell those y^• before time vsed that occupation, & which had bene whooremongers and bawdes: and not content with * that, did receiue tribute of those that are married. The plai∣ers also of cardes and dice were not exempted. But which * is more, he caused to be builded & set vp houses for whoores for to make his reuenewes the greater.

Beholde most vile, excecrable and most vnworthy things, I say not of an Emperour, but of the most wickedst man in the whole worlde. That is much worse then to recouer tribute of vrine and pisse.

If you thincke that to be vnworthy for a hea∣then Emperour, what maye you iudge of the Pope and his officers, if they doe the lyke, yea, or rather worse? You haue already hearde howe that there is neither poore man nor rich, of whom they haue not gotten money euery way and dayly. And if you will knowe what tribute they receyue of the victualles they sell, you must aske the Itali∣•ns, * who can tell by experience. I doe beléeue that Cali∣gula neuer vsed suche crueltie as Pope Clement vsed, Page  43 altogether contrary to his name, who in the time of dearth * and famine, séeing that the poore people had not any other thing to eat then hearbes, of which they made sallets for to nourish and féede them, the better to shew foorth his cle∣mencie, pittie & compassion that he had of the poore people of Italy béeing much oppressed with hunger, caused to make their salt deerer, and set a talent vpon it, to the end that they could not eate a sallet but that they must pay tribute. But * doe we not dayly sée the money that they get vnto them, for to dispence with those that would eat flesh & al such meates as are made of milke, against their decrées? These are mer∣uaylous sellers of vittailes and Bouchers, that receiue mo∣ney of flesh, egs, milke, butter and cheese, and doe neuer dy∣stribute any thing. And of their plaintés and proces, doth ther come vnto them smal gaine? And at Rome, Boulong•e and other Cities subiect vnto the Pope, hath he not officers * and other Cities subiect vnto the Pope, hath he not officers and magistrates that receiue monthly tribute of whoores and of those women that are forsaken? which are common∣ly called the Popes pardoners.

The Lord by Moses hath forbidden that one shall not offer the hire of an whoore nor the price of a Dog. But those are not disdainfull. At the least wise they * did as the Emperour Alexander, who did forbid that such tributes should not be put into the treasure of the temple, nor of the common wealth.

I doe also thincke that those doe not put in much, and that the Bishops do not enrich very much the treasures of the Church, with the tri∣butes y^• they haue receiued of their whooremaister Priests for suff•ring them to haue their concubines, whome they loue a great deale better, then if they were honester men. For they should not haue so much gaine. But I thincke that the Pope who is the great prince and capitaine of the bawdes ought also to compell the Bishops who are the * bawdes, vnto their Priests, to pay vnto him tribute, of the tribute that they haue gotten. But the thing might yet be more tollerable if they had but onely rendered the tri∣bute of y^• whoores, to that they had exempted those that are Page  [unnumbered] marryed, of which they doo receiue no lesse money, as well of the proces which their decrées and canons haue ingende∣red, as of the dispensations, as well for the espouses as of the degrées of consanguinitie and other like thinges. It is also written of Nero, that hée neuer gaue any office to any per∣son, but that hée added and sayde. Thou knowest that I must haue. Letting vs to vnderstand, that they muste * paye. For he hath néede of money: And after that sort hée was the seller of offices and of Magistrates, which is a very vnworthy thing for a good Prince. But the auarice and ra∣pacite of Nero, nor the selling of offices were nothinge in comparison of that which is in the Popishe Church, in all offices and benefices.

Alexander Seuerus a Romaine Empe∣rour howe greate a Panim soeuer hée were, shall haue good occasion at the daye of iudgement to rise against that generation. For hee woulde neuer suffer that any shoulde sell either honors or offices, speaking these wordes worthy to be remembred. It is necessary that he y^• byeth do sell. Wherefore I will not suffer Merchaunts of estates & offices.

Beholde the woordes of a worthy Prince: * But woulde to GOD that the Pope and his Pope∣linges did no worse then those Tyrantes, and that they woulde suffer vs at the least to bee at peace and rest after that wée bée deade, and that wée might dye without pay∣ing any thinge, sith that our lyse hath cost vs so much. But then that tyranny doth begin a freshe. Are wée dead? we must first pay for the buriall before we can be bu∣ried. The panims had at y^• least common churchyards for to bury in, for y^• poore mean people which did cost them nothing. * But among the Christians, in many places it is not onely lawfull that the poore dead carkas should bée couered wyth earth, except he doe first buy the place and length and bredth of the grounde in which he would be buryed. And accor∣ding to the summe thou gyuest, the place shalbe accordingly * either little or great. If thou wilt pay a great deale it shalbe Page  44 lawfull for thée to rotte by the high Aulter. If thou doe * giue but a little, thou shalt lye in the rayne wyth the com∣mon people. And although men doe offer vnto them wyl∣lingly money for the buryall, yet they shall runne into in∣fainy and shame for taking it, and also their canons and d•∣cretalls as it appearethe by the auncient Doctors, doc forbio it expresly. But they d•e a great deale worse. For they say that it is their duetie and ryght, and compell them to pay it.

Ephron that heathen and barberous man, offered willingly vnto Abraham, beeing a straunger and not * knowen, his field freely, for to bury his wis• Sar• in, and it was much adoe euer he would be perswaded to rece•ue the money that Abraham offered him. But the Christian priests doe sell the buryall in other mens grounde and which be∣lōgeth not to them: yea, & moreouer they h•e out for money, as their owne, that which is common to all. I would gladly that they were at the least so honest men, as the Scribes * and Pharises; Bishops and Priestes of Hierusalem, who bought wyth the money, that Iudas gaue, them againe, a fielde and possession for to bury the poore straungers, in •lood wheroff our Priestes do sell the ground to their next neigh∣bours.

I assure you without lying in any one worde, that there was in the citie of O•be a poore Taylor, named * Gaspard. I thincke you knowe him. Who was so poore that he had much adoe to liue and who had so many peeces and patches in his cloake as there bée dayes in the yeare. It was so péeced and patched with so many péeces one vpon an other that it was rather lyke vnto a brigantine, then a coate. His wife brought him foorth a childe that was * borne dead: hée carryed it vnto our Lady of Lausanna, who dyd many goodly m•racles: who raysed to lyfe those lyt∣tle children that were borne dead, and after they must in∣continently bury them. For after that she hath raysed th•m to lyfe, they coste their parentes no more to nouryshe. That was a resurrection altogether differinge from * Page  [unnumbered] that of Iesus Christ, and of those whome he hath raised, who did speake, walke, eate and drincke after their resur∣rection, * as it appeared in Lazarus the brother of Martha, and of Mary: Also in the daughter of Iarus, also in the sonne of the widdowe of Naim, also of Doreas raised by S. Peter. And Eutieus by Sainct Paul. When the childe had bene a little time before the Idoll, he stoode vp as the others did, and the miracle was done when it pleased the olde wo∣man that kept it. For there were also meanes to haste the * miracles. For when any did giue a large drincking penny to the olde woman she might the cléerer or better knowe when the childe chaunged colour or when hée breathed or wagged. And that is soone found out as well there, as at our Lady of grace of Geneua, of those olde women who durst say vnto some y^• haue brought of those children, whē they will not giue them to drincke as they would, nor giue them that they demaund: The Diuell of miracle that you shall haue thrée dayes. Those are yet liuing who hearde it, who can witnesse the truth. Wherefore I doe conclude, that the olde woman doth the miracles and not our Lady.

And hath that poore man Gaspard quenched their thirst?

I kmow not what he did. I thinke that when she sawe him so beggerly, that she had some pit∣tie. But héerein stoode the question that when the childe that was raised must bée buryed, then had he somewhat to doe. For he must pay foure or fiue grotes for the buryall: and I beléeue that he had not foure farthinges for to paye his charge and expence. Neuerthelesse he could neuer agrée with the Priestes, but was constrained to carry his childe to Orbe, or otherwise he must bury him in the rawe earth. For hée coulde neuer haue one foote of sodden earth.

What doe you call sodden earth and rawe earth?

Are you of that country & know not the * language? Doe you not know y^• our priests do call cōmonly raw earth that which is out of the churchyard, & which hath not ben blessed & consecrated, y^• is to wéet charmed by them, Page  45 as the same of their Church. If it be rawe I conclude by contraries that the other is sodden.

And when he was at Orbe, did he finde the Priestes more pitifull then at Lausannia?

God knoweth howe that poore man was sifted and tried. They did thinke to eate him aliue with his childe, & compelled him to carrie him to Lausannia, or at the least would not suffer him to bury him in the Churchyarde: neuerthelesse hee buried him. But I knowe not whether it were in the rawe ground or sodden.

Beholde a greate rigour and crueltie shewed vnto a little infant.

I doe thinke that * if that tyme had continued any long space we should haue béene constrayned not to dye, for want of burying. It is a marueylous case that that poore little Infant had so much * a doe to finde one little corner or angle in the earth, for to be buried in, and that the earth was not greate ynough for him. We may very well say that of our Priests which Phocion. saide of the Athemans a little before his death. * When they had condemned him to dye (bicause he was too honest a man for them, nor they were not worthy to haue him among them) he must drincke of the hemlocke. For * the Athenians had that custome to make those that were founde faultie to drinke that poyson, and to put them to death after that sort. After that all the other that were in the prison with him, had dronken, and that there was none but he alone left, bicause that all the other had consumed the poyson that did drinke first, the hangman saide that hée will not giue it him vnlesse one woulde giue him twelue * drachines of siluer. For bicause that an ownce of the poy∣son was sold for so much. Phocion then pleading with the hangman that his death might not be prolonged, and that the same should not let or hinder him to die, called vnto him a certeine friende of his, and said vnto him: Sith that it is not lawfull to dye at Athens frely but that it will cost money, and that I must bye death, I pray thée deliuer mo∣ney to this hangman, and giue him the price hée demaun∣deth, least that for want of money I should tarry any lon∣ger Page  [unnumbered] before I dye. We may say as much of the Christians, and that y^• Christianitie is so much contributary, that one cannot onely haue the death and the buriall freely, but that we must pay a rewarde. There was also among the Pa∣nims * a certeine custome that the dead must pay. And ther∣fore when any man dyed they did put into his mouthe an halfe penny for to paye for his passage and custome vnto Charon the Ferryman of Hell for to serry the soules ouer the riuers that were there to passe ouer.

That * was very good cheape: But I do thinke that there passed many together at once. For the soules are not very hea∣•y.

According to the bodies from which they came out.

And if they had not wherewith to pay, should they be constrayned to retourne to lyue againe, and to con∣tinue and abide heere for want of money?

They had that opinion that they should con∣tinue in great torment, if they coulde not passe.

For they could not be purged of their sinnes, nor enter into the fields Eliseas with the blessed, but that they must firste passe the riuer: As men haue made vs to beleeue of the soules who haue not ended their penaunce. They doe also beleeue that if their bodyes be not honestly buryed accor∣ding to their estate and degrée, they cannot passe in an hun∣dreth yeares, but must be wandring héere and there, vntill such time as their bodyes be buryed, or vntill the terme of an hundreth yeares, which was assigned vnto them for their payne and punishment, be expired: the which things the Poet hath comprised altogether in one selfe place by his verses of which I wil recite vnto you one parte of those that agree best to our matter.

He speaketh in that place of the things that A•neas hath séene, béeing descended into Hell with Sibilla, the which afterwardes hée expoundeth and sheweth playnely wh•t they signifie. He first describeth that which they haue séene there practised, saying.

There are yet at this day some who do not much differ from that opinion.

I knowe not what they doe in * other places, but in our citie when any is dead, & that they doe bring him to bée buried, he must bring with him his trentall. For assoone as the deade corpes is come into the Church, they doe lay ten lyardes vppon his breast, whiche is thirtie deneeres in valewe, the which the Curate or vy∣car goeth incontinently to take vp.

That is n y^• honour of the thirty pence as I thinke which Iudas sold Iesus Christ.

I knowe not whether they had a regard to that, but you haue made me to thinke that the same was to pay the feriage. Wherefore I would at the least wise that if the Priestes will not suffer vs to passe fréely, that our custome might be as cheape as was that of the Panims.

The Milanois haue yet at this day that custome, that they doe put a péece of Siluer in the hand of him that is dead, but he carrieth it with him, and doeth not giue it vnto the Priestes. Ʋppon which I haue heard recited an excellent historie which is written in the cronicles of Milanois, verie proper, for to shewe vnto our Priestes that they ought to suffer the dead to rest, without demaunding any thing more of them. For they are no more in their owne ground nor countrie: wherefore they ought no more to be tributaries. And may very well thinke that they ought not to haue any greate store of money with them in these base and lowe territories, for as much as alreadie long time agone they haue taken all that that they could: & which is more, they did well know that they haue taken away nothing with them. For euen as they * came all naked into the worlde, so shall they returne a∣gaine all naked: Except peraduenture our Priestes bee of the opinion of the auncient Galles and Frenchmen who do thinke that in the other worlde men doe handle money as they doe in this: & therefore they do lende the one to the other money vnto vsurie, to pay it below after their death. But I greatly feare that our Priestes do not so much be∣léeue of the unmortalitie of the soules, as those there, and Page  47 that they had rather borrow vppon that compte, then to lende. But let vs come vnto our history. In the time that * the Barbarians and Gothes did inhabite Italy, and Lum∣bardy, and did vse great extorcions vnto the poore people, (as aduenturers and Souldiers haue accustomed to doe: who after that they haue gotten all the spoyle, yet they will pill the naked and spoyle the dead. And when they haue taken all, insomuch that there is nothing left, yet they would that men should giue them more, and doe torment the poore people, for to compell them to tell wher they haue hid vp their money, although they haue none.) Among the rest there was an honest widdowe and of a riche house, * who knewe not what to doe, hir house and all hir goodes were already sacked and pilled, that there was no more to take, and yet neuerthelesse the Souldiers did gréeue and threaten hir that shée had more money. Whilest that shée was in that perplexitie, one of hir children came vnto hir and sayd: You doe remember mother that when my father dyed, one did put a ducat in his hande? let vs go fetche it and giue it to the Souldiers, to the ende that they would let vs haue a lyttle peace and rest. The poore woman be∣léeued the counsaile of hir sonne, and for to haue peace with those théeues was constrained to open the Tombe wherein hir husband was layde with other dead bodyes and tooke away that ducat from him for to giue it vnto them. The same béeing come vnto the Captaynes eare: for the Sol∣diers were present, who saw euery thing and declared it vn∣to him. And therefore incontinently as he vnderstoode ther∣off, he sayd vnto his people: Let vs depart hence, and let vs not torment them any more: For there is no more money, sith that they haue bene constrayned to séeke it with y^• dead.

Truely that might bée very well called to take tribute of the deade.

I would gladly that our priestes and Monkes had such a iudgement, and that they had asmuch pittie on the poore people, & not to compel them any longer to pay trybute for the dead, when they sée that they haue woorke vnough to fynde money to buye bread for Page  [unnumbered] to giue meate vnto those that be alyue. Mée thinketh that they ought to content themselues for that they haue pilled the world so long time, when they sée y^• it is eaten euen to the bones. For how many poore people are there, that shal be constrayned to go and dig the dead out of their graues, if they did know any that had money, for to delyuer them∣selues from the hands of such aduenturers? But which is worse, in stéede to content themselues in so pillyng the poore people vntill this present time, if there bée any that speaketh one onely word againste their pillyngs and extor∣cions, and which refuseth to pay tribute for the quicke and the deade, they will condempne them immediately to the fire, as Heritickes. We doe call the Scythians barbarous people, and estéeme them very cruell, especially the Esse∣donians and Massagetes, who doe eate theire fathers and mothers and their parents and friendes, in stéede to burye them. The Essedonians haue a custome (as the Historio∣graphers doe witnesse) to singe after their parents, and after that their kinsfolke and neighbours are assembled to∣gether, they doe eate the flesh of the dead bodyes, mingled with the fleshe of beastes. The lyke haue they written of the Massagetes who were also Scythians. I haue thoughte that manner of doing to be meruaylous straunge, and would not beléeue it that ther wer people vpon the earth so inhumaine, who had not great horrour and feare to eate the flesh of men. But when I consider & way the doings of our Priestes, I finde the Scythians to be very humaine in comparison of them. For they are not contēt to eate the dead onely, but they eate both the quicke & the dead: & not béeing content with y^• do also eate with them their wyues, children, parents & friends with all their cheuances & sub∣stance: & yet they cannot be suffised & satisfied. They make * of their bodyes y^• sepulchers of the poore people whom they do englut and deuoure, for to bury them more preciously in their bowels. But you must not be abashed if they make of their bodies the sepulchers of the poore people, as the Scy∣thians did of their parents & friends, sith that they say that Page  48 they are made dayly the sepulcher of Iesus Christ, bicause they doe eate him dayly, and bury him in their bodyes and entrayles. The poore people haue then no iust occasion to complayne of their crueltie. For they doe vnto them no worse then vnto their God, if their doctrine be true, but doe bury them as preciously & honestly. And hée that will not beléeue me, let him read their booke which is intituled Stella Clericorum: and he shall sée whether I lye or no: * but he shall there finde rather worse. For it is there writ∣ten, sith that the Prieste is the sepulcher of Iesus Christe, that if he doe presume to take the body of Iesus with his polluted mouth, he doth worse then if he threwe it in the durte or mire: But which is more, he casteth it into a pri∣uie. Iudge therefore Eusebius, whether that good God whom they haue forged, be honestly lodged, and whether he haue not a tombe and sepulcher very precious and accor∣ding to his dignitie.

If there are some wicked Priests who did vnreuerently handle Iesus Christ, and who did dishonour their office, must ye therfore despise the estate, which is so worthy and excellent, and blaspheame Iesus Christ in such sorte?

When did you euer heare vs blaspheme Iesus Christ, & speake vnreuerently of god? do you thinke ther is no differēce betwene Iesus christ the true sauiour of y^• world. As for me I finde as much dif∣ference, as is betwen y^• true God of Israel & the gods of the * Babilonians and other Idolaters. Wherfore if you will ac∣cuse me of blasphemy, when I will not receiue those newe gods, and that I speake in such sort, you shall be also com∣pelled to accuse the Prophets of the same crime, when they doe so often mocke at the strange gods. But wherefore are you not rather offended with them, then with mée, who haue not inuēted any thing but do speake only after them? To what purpose doe they call the Priestes the Sepulcher * of Iesus Christ? Is not Iesus Christ risen agayne and a∣scended into heauen? doth not the Apostle say. Christ once raised from death dyeth no more. For as much then as Ie∣sus Christ liueth eternally at y^• right hand of god his father Page  [unnumbered] what needeth he of a sep•lohre, especially of such as these are? When he dyed for our sinnes he had his sepulchre in Hierusalem, in which Ioseph of Aramathia and Nicode∣mus * dyd bury him in. They dyd not as the Scithians, eate him fleshe and bones and bury him in their bellyes and en∣trayles. But in a goodly new sepulchre, hewen in stone. The priestes then camib• saye that they are that sepulchre in which Iesus Christ was put, and out of which he rose a∣gaine. Wherefore if they be the sepulchres of Iesus Christ, it must be that he is dead sithence, and that he was buryed in theyr bellyes. For I cannot vnderstande how he could be buryed, if they haue not eaten him, as the Scithians dyd eate theyr parents and friends. And if you doe thinke that I tell you a thing that is strange, consider and marke well the woords that the Apostle hath wrytten to the Hebrewes. * He witnesseth that Iesus Christ was once offered, and he shalbe no more Afterward telleth the cause. For if he must be often offered he must dye often, sith that there is no sacri∣fice without effusion of bloud. Yet the priestes say that they doe offer and sacrifice really euery day Iesus Christ; it fol∣loweth necessarily, y^• either they do put him to death, & that he dyeth agayne, or els y^• the holy Apostle is an euil Logi∣cioner, & that he concludeth euilly, & knoweth not the rules and lawes of his Silogismes and consequences. If it be so the Priestes may well be called the Sepulchers of Iesus Christ, but not of the true Iesus Christ whom Saint Ste∣phen * did sée at the righte hande of God, who as the Apo∣stle witnesseth, dyeth no more: vnto whome I giue more credite, then vnto all the Priests and Monkes which euer were or shall be. And therefore eyther it must bée that they haue forged a newe Iesus Christ, that dyeth and riseth a∣gayne euery day and as often as they list, and that they are all lyers: or els that the Apostle hath written against the truth, the which is impossible. Wherefore it followeth, that the first part of my proposition is true.

Doe you not beléeue that the Priestes haue power to consecrate the body and bloude of Iesus, and that Page  49 they eate it flesh and bones, as grose and as bigge as he was * on the crosse?

I doe aske you an other question, whē they haue eaten the flesh & the bones, what do thy with the skinne? And how they could dine vpon Christmas day, after that they haue eatē him thrée times. For me thincketh they should haue their bellies too ful & strouted. Also where∣fore * doe you not demaund of me this question which is al∣so very cōmon among your deuines? To weet whether Ie∣sus Christ did eate himselfe?

What resolution doe they giue?

That he did, you may thereby know what reason there is in their doctrine. Will you haue a more greater absurdite? We do eate his flesh spiritually for to haue life: But he who is the life, what néede hath he to eat himselfe? And if Iesus Christ did eat himselfe, it must be that he hath two bodies: the one which eateth, and the o∣ther which was eaten. O Lord God, what dreams are these? But if your Priests do eat the flesh and the bones, they are worse then the Scithians. For they were content with y^• flesh of man, without eating the bones. Neuerthelesse to the ende that you do not thincke that I will gainsay the word of Ie∣sus Christ, and that I am some Caparnaite, who is offended with the preachinge that he made, of eating his flesh and * drincking his bloud, or as the hearers who did forsake it. I aunswere that there is thrée wayes to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ. The true manner the which he would teach vs by his worde, and that hée would represent and frequent in the holy supper is spiritu∣all * and not carnall, as he himselfe witnesseth, sayinge. It is the spirite that quickeneth, the fleshe profiteth no∣thing. The woordes that I haue sayde are spirite and lyfe.

That is not ment that the fleshe of Iesus Christ doth not profite any thing the faithful, sith y^• he him∣selfe calleth it the bread which came downe from heauen, without which we cannot haue life, nourishment, nor salua∣tion. But the carnall sence and vnderstandinge of hys woordes, and suche intelligence as the Cape•naites, Page  [unnumbered] and hearers that were offended had, is the fleshe eaten in such sorte as they vnderstande it. For when wée shall haue the very fleshe of Iesus Christ in our mouth, and that wée doe crashe it wyth our téeth, and disgest it in our stomack, it profiteth vs no more then to Iudas to haue kis∣sed him, and to the hangmen to haue touched him, yea, to bée sprinckled in hys bloude, and to haue had his garmentes. For Iesus Christ doth profite nothinge béeing knowen after the flesh, except he be knowen through fayth, by the whiche hée filleth and satisfieth vs also wyth his fleshe and bloude. Therefore it is not néedefull that he discende from heauen, nor y^• he remoue frō place to place, for to feede vs in that manner wyth his fleshe and bloude, * and for to bée present wyth vs and in the middest of vs. For he dwelleth in our heartes by fayth, and lyueth in vs, and quickeneth vs by his holy spirit. Wherfore he calleth * not the faythfull, hys sepulchre, but the temple of the liuing God. For hée is not deade in the heartes of the faythfull, but lyueth there and the faythfull by hym. Euen as then the sunne is present wyth vs, althoughe it descende not from heauen into the earth, and maketh vs to féele hys vertue and power, it illuminateth vs, and through his heate and brightnesse nourisheth and quickeneth both man and beastes, better then if it were héere in earth with vs: euen so Iesus Christ, that greate sonne of righteous∣nesse through his diuine power and vertue of his holye spirite, doth gyue vnto our soules and bodyes hys flesh and his bloude, and doth nourishe and fill vs and maketh vs to feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion, and of his body and bloude, that hée hath gyuen for vs, better then if we did eate his flesh with our téeth and there dyd deuoure and swallow it in wyth his bloud in our stomacke: insomuch that there is not a body which is so well nouri∣shed and fedde wyth bread and wine, that hée eatcth and drincketh, as the faythfull who with a true and liuely faith commeth vnto him., and receyueth his woorde and com∣municateth the Sacramentes that he hath ordayned, is Page  50 filled and satisfied wyth his flesh and his bloude. For hée * hath sayde: he that commeth to mée shall not hunger, and he that beléeueth on mée shall neuer thurst. If he that com∣meth and beléeueth in him shall no more hunger nor thurst, it followeth then that in beléeuing and communica∣ting his Sacramentes, hée hath eaten and dronken and is satisfied.

That sufficeth which you haue nowe spoken off (friend Theophilus) for to proue my meaning. For we haue not at this present neyther better time nor fitter oc∣casion for to pursue more fully that matter. But I wil not graunt vnto thée Eusebius, that the Priestes doe eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christe after that sorte. For sith that they séeke his carnall presence, they de∣priue themselues of his spiritual presence, according to the witnesse of the Apostle which sayth: Wée haue an Aulter * whereoff they maye not eate whiche serue in the Taber∣nacle. If those who doe serue in the Tabernacle of Mo∣ses, and put yet all their affiaunce in the leuitical Ceremo∣nies and sacrifices, are shutte out and depriued from the true sacrifice of Iesus Christe, what communion can those haue wyth hym, who haue altogether ouerthrowen his Sacramentes and Ordinaunces, and haue founde out and inuented newe sacrifices, more intollerable then euer the Iewes vsed? There is an other manner to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ, the which * I cannot graunt vnto them, y^• is, the carnall eating, as the Caparnaites dyd vnderstande it, euen as one eateth the fleshe of the butchery. Iesus Christe whiche is at the ryght hande of God cannot bée eaten after that sorte.

For hée is the breade of Angels and of the true chyldren of God, and of his shéepe and not of Dogges, Wolues, Hogges, Lyons and wilde beastes. But I wyll graunte vnto them the thirde manner to eate Iesus Christ, and * doe confesse wyth thée that they doe eate it truelye, reallye, and essentiallye, not onely in flesh and bones, but which is more (least you shoulde accompte mée for an hereticke) Page  [unnumbered] besides the flesh and bones, they doe eate the skinne, and breake the bones for to sucke out the marrowe that is therein, bycause they haue founde suche good taste in the meate.

If they doe so, they doe worse then the Iewes. For they brake not a bone of Iesus Christ.

That was bicause that it was necessarye that in him should be fulfilled which was figured & repre∣sented * by the pascall Lambe, of which they must leaue his bones whole. For we cannot haue Iesus Christ, but that we must haue him whole, & his vertue & power cannot be broken by death it selfe.

I haue not yet very wel vnderstood you.

I will declare it vnto thée by a cléere demonstration, & by euident arguments. Diddest thou not first confesse vnto me, that all the true faithfull are the true members of Iesus Christ?

I confesse it.

If they be members of Iesus Christ, they are then his body, of which he is y^• head, as the Apostle doth witnesse in many places.

I doe agrée vnto you * in that.

Forasmuch then as the faithfull are the body of Iesus Christ, you will also graunt mée, that those which eate the faithfull and poore widowes & orphants, doe eate Iesus Christ. And if you will denie it, I will proue it * by that that Iesus Christ sayd vnto Saul, saying: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? In the same manner then as Ie∣sus Christ doth complaine himselfe to be persecuted whē his members are: So may I say, without digressinge from the Scripture, that those eate Iesus Christ that do eat his mem∣bers.

But you haue not yet proued, that the Priests doe eate the members of Iesus Christ.

It hath ben alredy proued by the things that were spoken before. For haue I not already tolde thée, how they doo eate both the quicke & dead? But least thou shouldest thincke that I speake without the Scripture, beholde his witnesse. What doe you vnderstande by that rebuke and checke that God did vnto the tyrants and enemies of his people, when he complained that they denoured Iacob, * Page  51 and his people, as a morsell of bread. *

The places doe declare inough of themselues. For he complaineth that his enemies are come into his en∣heritage, and haue destroyed his people, which is signified by Iacob, of whom did procéede & come the twelue tribes of I∣srael. That is a manner of speaking common in all tongues. Euen so doe we saye that a man is burned when his house is burned, also wée do call the great théeues, couetous per∣sons, * tyrantes, rauishers and vsurers the consumers and de∣uourers of the poore people, widowes and Fatherlesse chil∣dren, not that they ease and deuoure mans flesh, but bicause they destroy and deuoure their substaunce, and many times cause them to dye for very pouertie and lacke.

You haue alredy concluded y^• which I would haue concluded. We cannot denie, but that the Priests and Moonkes doe deuoure all the substance of the poore Christi∣an * people, which is the true heritage of God, and the true Iacob whome they haue consumed, wasted, and deuoured more cruelly then the Babilonians did vnto the Israelites. For to make you better to vnderstande the effect & sumine of our disputation, I will comprehend it in a little sillogys∣me * and playne conclusion. Whosoeuer eateth the poore, eateth the body of Christ. The Priestes doe eate the poore: wherefore it followeth infallibly that they eate the body of Iesus Christ. The sillogisme is good, for it is in his inode and dialecticall and logicall figure. It néedeth no more for to proue the premisses and the Antecedent. For you haue already graunted it vnto me by your aunsweres. You doe then sée now friend Eusebius, that I am not an heretick, noi∣ther after God nor after the Pope. For I doe confesse y^• true and spirituall manducation of the body of Iesus Christ, & the very papisticall manducation, which is more truer then it is in the bookes of your Doctors. I doe then thinck that you ought to content your selues with vs, & that the Pope ought not to pursue vs to the fire, & to such cruell death, for that Article. For I beléeue y^• there is none of all those whō you doe condemne for hereticks, who are not ready to con∣fesse Page  [unnumbered] as muche as I. And if you will compell them fur∣ther, me thinckes you doe them wronge. For what can they confesse any more, without speakinge againste the truth? Nowe it resteth that I doe proue howe they doe * eat the skinne and breake the bones for to haue the mar∣rowe. Wherefore I will take for my warrant and aduo∣cate in this cause chiefly Michea amonge the Prophetes, who speakinge both of them and of their like, accuseth them after this manner, sayinge. Ye hate the good and loue * the euill: ye plucke off mens skinnes and fleshe from their bones: ye eate the fleshe of my people, and flaye off their skinne: ye breake their bones, ye choppe them in péeces as it were into a Cauldron, and as flesh into a Pot. And as concerning the Prophetes that deceiue my people, thus the Lorde saith againste them: When they haue anye thinge to bite vpon, then they preache that all shall bée well: But if a man putte not some thinge into theyre * mouthes, they preache of warre against him. I doe ne∣uer read those wordes of Micheah, consideringe the a∣uarice and rapacite of our false teachers and shepheards, * who doe feede themselues, not the Lordes flocke, but that mée thinckes I sée before mine eyes that greate * and hidious Cerberus the dogge and porter of Hell, with his thrée heades, whiche hée hath for to deuoure, eate, and swallowe vp all that commeth vnto hym, if one doe not cast a sop into his mouth, euen as Aeneas and Sibyle did, accordinge to Virgiles discription, who hathe sette out his rage and vnsatiable madnesse, speakinge after this sort.

We haue a great number of such dogs, who although * they are mute for to preach the word of God, for to crye a∣gainst the abuses, vices and offences, for to chase and driue away the Wolues from the folde & to defend the shéepe, ne∣uerthelesse are not mute, but great cryers against the true seruaunts of God who cease not to barke, bite & deuoure, ex∣cept for to haue them quiet, one do cast them some bone or sop in their mouth. Now thincke if that infernall monster & mad dog, who hath but thrée heads and one belly, be so hun∣gry and insatiable, what ought we to estéeme of so many Cerberus, and of so many gluttons who haue so many heads & bellies, which are as the great goulfes of the sea. It is not then w^tout cause that y^• prophets comparing such shepherds to those great masties & dumme dogs, shamelesse idle knaues * and insatiable, & vnto Lyons & rauening Wolues who haue eaten nothing vntil Euening, who do flay the skinne, eat the flesh, afterwards doe breake the hones and cast them into the pot for to eate and deuoure them, and yet cannot bée satisfied and filled. Wherefore I cannot beléeue but that Salomon by the spirite of GOD hath foreséene and spake of that generation, and that hée minded to paynte * it out vnto vs, when he sayde: There are a people whose téeth are swoordes, and wyth their chaffe bones they con∣sume & deuoure the simple of the earth, and the poore from amonge men. The Horseléech hath two daughters, the * one is called fetche hether, and the other bringe he∣ther.

Hée sayeth not wythout cause that shée * hath two daughters. For shée hath two throates, and draweth the bloude from one side to the other. But I am not abashed, but of that that when hée nombreth the thinges that are not satisfied he hath also added those which are the most insatiable of all. He sayth, that there be thrée things that are neuer satisfied, and the fourth sayth neuer hoe. That is to saye, hell, a womans wombe, and the earth hathe neuer water inoughe, as for fire Page  [unnumbered] it sayth neuer hoe. One may very well adde to these for the fift.

It is no néede. For among these foure, they are alredy conteined in two for fault of one. Hath not Salo∣mon * spoken of the fire, who neuer saith hoe. For one can∣not finde so much as it consumeth. There was neuer fire, that molted and consumed so much goods, as the fire of their Purgatory & of their kitchin which is of y^• same nature. A∣gaine, is not y^• hell comprised among those insatiable things? * May wée not well speake that of them which Dauid hath written of his enemies? saying: their throat is an open se∣pulchre. * And that which Esay speaketh off, saying: hell ga∣peth and openeth hir mouth meruailous wide. For of all * that they can once lay hand on, nothing euer retourneth a∣gaine, no more then from the mouth of hell and graue. But which is worse the graue consumeth & deuoureth but the dead bodies: but these do deuour both the quick & the dead: And we may very wel say y^• these are the Harpyes of whom * Virgile maketh mention off. But bicause they are faire and goodly sepulchres, as the Scribes & Pharises who do neuer cease to crye: Corban, Corban, giue, giue, offer, offer: and as the daughter of the Horseléech. Bringe, bringe to the candles of the good Sainct. Bicause they are so beautifull & pollished without, y^• poore world cannot know thē, although they do sée them deuoure & eate vp widowes houses before their eies, vnder colour of long praiers. For they haue those goodly habites of religion, goodly Ornaments, Ceremonies, goodly names & titles, and that goodly appearaunce of holi∣nesse, which do couer & beautifie those sepulchres & tombes, in such sort that men cannot perceiue the filthinesse & infec∣tion that is there hidden and kepte close within, but passe ouer it without any aduisement, as men doe by the Sepul∣chres.

They are more open and dyscouered then néede required. For GOD hathe nowe raysed vppe a people whome they woulde not haue, who haue in suche sorte remoued all that filthe and infecty∣on that it stincketh throughoute the whole worlde. Page  53 And we must not be abashed if they call them the Sepul∣chers * of Iesus Christ, and though they doe meruaylously stincke, sith that Iesus Christ is altogether deade in them, and to them, and that they haue nothing at all. For if Christ lyue not in vs, what other thing can wée bee, but dead carryons, stincking and infectious, who doe not one∣ly rotte and consume themselues, but doe rotte and con∣sume with them all other things?

All of you doe cry out agaynst the Priestes. Haue you now all sayd? It was not inough for Hillarie to speake euill and backe∣bite, but that you must ayde and helpe him Theophilus, and meddle also as well as hée.

You neuer sawe a man that delyteth lesse * to speake euill and backebite, and to heare euill speakinge and tales: But truth constrayneth mee, and you oughte to vnderstande, that to speake truth for the health of ones neighbour, is not to speake euill, backebite, and slaunder any man. Would to God I coulde speake as much good of them, as of the Apostles. For I doe loue better to praise their vertue, charitie and mercy, then to dispise their vices, crueltie, auarice, and rapacitie. But what will you that I speake? If I doe sée a poore man, who is wandring alone in a forrest, or woode full of théeues, am not I bounde to giue him warning of the daunger he is lyke to fall in?

If I say nothing vnto him, am not I guyltie of his death sith that I knew the daunger: And if I encourage him to enter, and tell him that there is no daunger, am not I then more culpable and worthy to be taken for a murtherer of my poore brother? But if I doe admonish him of the daun∣gers and of the théeues. Doe I wrong vnto the theenes in callyng them by their name? Shoulde I doe better and according to Gods commaundemet to call them good people for to saue their honour, and that I should put my brother into their handes to haue them to cutte his throate?

What goodnesse can I finde in those, who from the grea∣test * to y^• least are al excommunicated & iudged Simoniacks and Heretickes, vnworthy of all Ecclesiasticall honour and Page  [unnumbered] office? not onely by the authoritie of the holy Scriptures, * but also by their owne councells, decrées, and Canons.

For how many Councells, Decrées and Canons be there that doe forbid to demaunde and take, giftes, rewardes, presents, hire or siluer, nor any thing whatsoeuer it bée, for creame, baptisme, orders, laying on of hands: for y^• earth, nor Sepulture, neyther for Sacraments nor whatsoeuer office is in the Church, vnder payne of excommunication, and to be holden and reputed Simoniackes, Heretickes, and Sacriledgers, and depriued and deposed from theire offices and honours? and not onely they that receiue the money, but also those who doe giue it for such things.

There shall be then by that compte no Christian, who shall not be excommunicated. For among the priests * there is not one but hath receiued money for such thinges, nor among the people but hath disbursed somewhat.

Therefore you may consider what com∣munion may be in y^• Popish Church. For Saint Peter did * not only curse, in the authoritie of God Symon the Sorce∣rer, of whome Simony and Simoniackes haue taken their * name, but also the money that he offred for to buy the gifte of God withall. Now if Symon for offering y^• money hath receiued such malediction, what ought it to be vppon them that doe cleane contrary to Saynt Peter, who doe not one∣ly receiue but also doe compell the poore people to giue it them? I doe not héereby meane that the true Euangelycall Priests, and true Pastors of the Church, are not worthy of their nourishment and rewarde: But I speake agaynst * those Merchaunts which are in the Church of God, whom Saynt Peter hath forespoken, who haue both GOD and the Diuill to sell, Paradise •nd Hell, holy things and prophane things, and which doe exercise merchandises of all things, and are polluted and d•fil•d with all Simonie * and Sacriledges, that they themselues haue bene constray∣ned to condemone them. And he that will not beléeue me, lette him read Platine in the lyues of the Popes, and the decrees of the Councell of Elybertine holden in Spayne, in Page  54 the time of Constantine: and that of Tholet, holden in the * yeare. 713: and that of Calcedone: And the 4. of Car∣thage: And the Councell of Tiburien and Varensian, who doe condempne namely those that take money for the bury∣alls, saying after this manner: Wherefore dost thou sell the earth? Remember that thou art earth, and into the earth shalt retourne agayne. For the earthe is not mans, but as (the Psalmist Dauid witnesseth) the earth is the Lords, and all that therein is: If thou doe sell the earth, thou shalt be holden guyltie of larcenie, as he that attribu∣teth vnto himselfe the thing of an other mans. Thou hast receyued it of God fréely, giue it fréely. And bicause it is altogether forbidden to all Christians, to sell the earth vnto the dead, and to deny vnto them the graue and burial which is due vnto them.

Item, we must commaunde according to the authoritie * of the Canons, that one should not demaunde or receiue a∣ny thing for mens burialls, nor for their graues. And hée that would sée the opinion of Gregorie, lette him reade the Epistle, wherein he rebuked Ianuarius Bishop of Sardi∣nia, for that he asked money of Ne•eida, a noble woman, for the sepulture and burying of hir daughter. And for to make him more ashamed, he propounded vnto him the example of the Panim Ephron, and the honestie that he vsed towards Abraham touching his fielde for the buryall of his wife. What shall we say friende Eusebius of those poore blynde men, blynded thorow their auarice, who so openly speake agaynst the worde of God, and all Councells and Canons? May not we rebuke and checke them with that, that Ter∣tulian * rebuked the Gentiles and Panims, saying: The Gods that are most tributaryes and the greatest gyuers, are to you the most holyest, but for to speake better, those that are the holyest, are the greatest gyuers and trybuta∣ryes. Their maiestie is put to sale and valued and is e∣stéemed after the gayne that it bryngeth. Your begging Relygion, goeth about in Tauerns, Shops and Markets, * for to begge. Page  [unnumbered] Ye demaunde money for the pauement and bourding of the Temple, for the entring into the Temple and holy pla∣ces. It is not lawful for to know your Gods without mo∣ney * or rewarde, for they are to be solde. We cannot suf∣fice or haue inoughe both for men and for your begging gods, and lette vs not thinke that we are bounde to giue vnto any other, then vnto those that aske it. If Iupiter then will haue it, lette him put foorth his hande. For our mercy doth bestow more goodes throughout all the stréete, then your relygion throughout all your Temples. Hée * declareth by those woordes that the auncient Christians bestowed not their goodes in buylding of Temples, setting vp of Idolls, and in offring to them sacrifices, and in fée∣ding of those Caphards & false Prophets, and in the meane season to suffer the poore to perishe with hunger, about in the stréetes: but doe bestow them in nourishing and féeding of those that were among them. Therefore he complay∣neth in the name of all the Christians, that sith that they haue bestowed already so much goodes for to nourishe and féede the poore, they cannot prouide sufficient to giue so much vnto the Idolls and Gods of the Panims, who doe neuer cease to aske and begge. He thinketh in his iudge∣ment that the Christians haue inough to doe to kéepe and prouide for the poore that are among them, without bestow∣ing so much cost and charge to keepe and prouide for the Gods of the Panims, who are more costlye then the poore. What will he then now saye if hée did sée the Priestes * who are called Christians and Lieuetenants of Saint Pe∣ter, to gather and receiue tribute of the Gods, of Images, of the quicke and the dead, and to make Gods, and men, the quicke and the deade tributaries, and to compell the poore Christians to maynetayne and keepe so rychly theire false Gods and Prophets, the bones and the carcases of the dead, and to be at such great charge and expences vp∣pon the dead, and in the meane time doe suffer the poore members of Iesus Christ and the lyuely Images of God to perish with hunger. May he not rightly say, that all the Page  55 Christian Relygion is no other thing now, but a very beg∣gery? And the Gods that are there of the beggers, doe ne∣uer any other thinge but begge, and that the deade d•e spende more then those that be alyue.

These are daungerous beggers. For they * are lyke vnto those lusty and stout beggers, who will chide and beate people, when they will not giue them that they would haue: and sometimes they doe cutte Merchaunts throates. At the beginning they doe séeme but as though they did begge. And therefore they haue found out so ma∣ny abuses, for to make their begging the better worth, and for to still theire scrippe the better. Afterwardes in the ende they make men to giue by force. But among all their inuentions, they neuer had any that brought them more gayne, then the God Pluto and his furnaces of Purgato∣rie. * For there they doe make the Philosophicall stone, and by those doe impouerish all the whole worlde, as the Alcu∣mistes deceiue those who do muse after their furnaces. But these are more craftye and subtile. For they do enrich themselues with other mens pouertie, and the Philosophi∣call * stone is alwayes good for them. And if God would not haue had that the fire shoulde haue begunne in those furna∣ces, as Theophilus hath sayd, all the whole worlde would haue gone to ruyne, and there woulde nothing haue bene lefte.

I haue desired of longe time to vnderstande, how that fire hath begunne there, by what meanes, and by whom. But you haue not yet declared it vnto me.

I am content to tell vnto you. First, that * that I doe vnderstande and know, and who haue bene the mouers of sedition, which were the causes of that great offence, and afterwardes Theophilus shall tell you his aduice, which I doubte not but that it is better then mine. Sithens that Paradise and Hell were so shutte vp, and that there arryued dayly suche a greate number of soules in Purgatory, and haue bene kepte there so longe time, there is no doubt, but that it must néedes be that the Page  [unnumbered] fire was very great, for to kéepe such a rosting and for to warme and make hot the kitchin and for to seethe the potte of so many Priestes and Moonkes, who are dispersed and scattered abreade throughout all Christendome to so great a number, there is no Arithmetician, how cunning soeuer he be in his A•te, which can caste or number them. And yet neuerthelesse all the fire that was in theire kitchin be∣gun of Purgatory. For they, neyther their family (which is not lyttle) doe eate no meate but that which is boyled and sodden in that fire. For you oughte to vnderstande, that forasmuch as the number of y^• soules do become very many, and that Purgatory was the better furnished, so much the more greater did the fire kindle in their kitchin. For the reuenew was very great. Wherfore it must néedes be also y^• the trayne did encrease & augment, and that after Requiem, one should sing Gaudeamus. And y^• more they did * sée y^• fire to burn y^• more they did blow it. To be short al wēt by y^• disshes. They did cast the house out of the windows. There was no more question but to blow the coale, to re∣ioyce and tryumphe, insomuch that they themselues did make the fire.

I doe not yet very well vnder∣stande your meaning, except you doe speake more playnly.

I meane that they are fedde and nourished so fatte and bigge about that kitchin, and haue inuented so many fables and lyes, for to mayntayne and augment that fire, that they haue vncouered and bewrayed themselues: and also haue done such wicked and most execrable things that whether men woulde or no, they haue bene constray∣ned to open their eyes, & to know that they were but decei∣uers and seducers of the people, and that all their doctrine was nothing but fables and lyes, and especially by theire Croysarde, which hath brought forth Luther in place, who * was the first that discouered their disceyte.

It is very true, that that which you say hath serued for some thing. For where Iesus Christ hath * commaunded his Disciples that their lyght should so shine before men, that they seeing their good workes might be in∣duced Page  56 to glorifie God: Those héere haue so lyghted and kin∣deled the fire of their Purgatory, that euery one beginneth to sée the darke places wherein they haue put vs. But that were but a small thing, if God thereby had not sent from Heauen another fire, more vehement and burning, which * hath burned and consumed it altogether.

Did the lyghtening fall vppon it, or the fire and brimstone that consumed Sodoma and Gomorra?

Not yet. For God who is full of compassion and mercy, and longe suffering, will not sodainly vse such rigor and vengeaunce. And therefore the fire that he hath sent is more for to illu∣minate and make hotte, then for to burne and cousume. But it is of such a nature and force that it draweth after it the fire of the wrath and indignation of God, vpon those which by the same will not be illuminated. That is it of which Iesus Christ speaketh off, saying: I am come to put * fire on the earth: and what is my desire, but that it be kin∣deled. And for to declare better what is the vertue of that fire, and what fire he meaneth, he hath sent his holy Ghost vnto his Apostles and Disciples, lyke a tongue of fire, * witnessing thereby, that it is hée, of whome Iohn Baptist hath spoken, saying: who shall baptize you with the holy Ghost and with fire. That is a fire that hath an other ver∣tue, then to purge the purses of the poore sinners. For it purgeth in deede the soules, the which none other fire can doe. And therefore he hath sent his Apostles for to carry * that fire, and to sette on fire all the world, that thorow the same all sinnes, filthinesse, and iniquities should be purged in his Church as in a furnace, & that all that which was false mettall, should be so tryed and melted that nothinge should remayne but pure gold: and that all the relicks of * the olde Adam should be burned and consumed, in suche sorte that all the true children of God should be made new creatures throughe the power and vertue of Iesus Christ, who alone hath made the purgation of our sinnes, puryfy∣ing our hearts through fayth, washing and making them cleane with his precious bloude.

Behold a Purgatorye much differing from the other. For in the other they doe nothing without mo∣ney, but in this heere we must not haue any.

But he that will giue and offer vnto it is accursed of God, and sent to hell fire, as it appeareth by the reprehension that Saint Peter did so rigorously vnto Symon the Sorcerer, cursing both him and his money that * he offered.

I am not abashed, althoughe hée were a begger. For he was very rigorous and cruell vnto those that did bring him money. Those that say they are his successours haue not done the lyke: But cleane con∣trary, that is, that he that will be best welcome vnto them, * must not come emptie handed. For it is wrttten: Thou shalt not appeare before the Lord emptie. They haue well aduised on those places that speake of bringing, for to make them serue for their gayne and profite: although that they doe vnderstande nothing of them. And therefore they say vnto those that doe bring any thing vnto them: Intra in gaudium Domini tui: Enter into the ioye of thy Lord. Centuplum accipies, & vitam aeternam possidebis. Thou shalt receiue an hundreth times as much, and possesse eter∣nall lyfe.

Saint Peter studyed in an other schoole, and remembred the commaundement that the maister gaue vnto him saying: Freely ye haue receyued, fréely gyue. * And for that cause hath hée himselfe preached in his name, saying: ye were not redéenied with corruptible things, as * siluer and golde, from your bayne conuersation, which yée receyued by the traditions of the fathers: but with the pre∣cious bloud of Christ, as of a Lambe vndefiled, and with∣out spot. Forasmuch then as it is so, are not those men * worthy to be cast into euerlasting fire, if they doe reiecte such grace, when it is presented and offered vnto them? and if they refuse to bée purged with that celestiall fire, which was not sent vnto them for to consume them, but for to saue them?

Wée must not doubte of it.

All other fire then besides that is a straunge fire, the which y^e Lord hath forbidden, willing & cōmaunding * that we should vse onely the same of his temple and aulter, of which the Seraphin tooke and brought the cole in his hand, wherewith he purged the lippes and mouth of Esay. Also they ought to way and consider the example of Dathan and * Abiron and what profit they receiued in offering of straunge fire, other then that which was commaunded of God. They offered it, but it was to their owne hurt and destruction. For God kindled fire against them and they were burned and con∣sumed, as the Babilonians were wyth the fire of their fur∣nace. * And if God dyd not pardon Nadab and Abihu the proper sonnes of Aaron, but caused them to bée burned and consumed openly in the sight of all the people, onelye bicause that through negligence they did take other fyre then of the Temple, doe they thincke that hée will support and beare rather wyth those who dyspise the fire of Iesus Christ his sonne, and of his holy Ghost: Therefore hee sayde not wythout a cause, when hée did sende his Dys∣ciples for to bringe that fire, sayinge: When you shall en∣ter into any Citte or house, if they wyll not ••••ue you, * shake off the dust of your féete in a witnesse agaynst them. For truely I saye it shall bée easier for the lande of Sodo∣ma and Gomorra in the daye of iudgement, then for those of that generation. Wherefore I sayd but euen now y^e that celestiall fire draweth with it the fire & brimstone, which con∣sumed Sodoma and Gomorra. For he that shall not be purged by that fire in this world, it is necessary that he be consumed in that hell fire. And therefore it is better for vs that we doe holde our selues vnto that Purgatory, sith that it hath plea∣sed God to bring vs thether agayne, then to séeke an other, which in steede to purge vs, doth burne vs in hell fire.

If it be so, it is a greate deale better. But I would gladly know how that fire hath bene quenched out so long time, and now kindled againe.

You may well vnderstand that when men woulde kindle an other, they must quenche out thys heere, Page  [unnumbered] and also wh• men wold build an other Purgatory, they must ruinate and destroy that of Iesus Christ. For they cannot a∣grée together: and it is impossible that the one can endure & continue with the other, sith that the one purgeth without * money; through the onely grace of God, and the other is an insatiable goulfe, which melteth & consumeth all the golde & siluer of the world, neither purgeth it the sinnes, but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation.

I doe compte him to be foolish & mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell, then to receiue Paradise fréely, which shal cost him nothing.

In hearinge you speake, I am greatly esto∣nied to see how men haue chaunged their nature. For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe, & there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise, if it coste nothinge, then to buy the bad very deere: or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish, & which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money.

And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day: wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men, who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues, and to lose both their bodies, soules and goodes: For they are mad to runne after y^e priests for to buy death, and refuse life, which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ.

I be∣léeue it well, & behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men, who doe liue vpon that fire, haue endcuou∣red themselues as much as lyeth in them, to quench out al∣together the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ, which quen∣cheth & putteth out theirs, bicause that it is more vehement and more violent, and consumeth it into Asshes.

Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say, and that there remaineth nothing whole?

There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine, which are not yet all burned. But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle, it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all Page  58 into Asshes, for that is a fire which none can quench.

I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it. Whereto serueth their holy wa∣ter? wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his ver∣tues, as well as against the lightninges & tempestes when they coniure them?

They do cleane contrary. For euery one runneth to the fire, to the fagots, to the brim∣stone, to the lights & to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne. And they are so hot after it that there is ney∣ther, * King, Prince, Lord Bourgis, Merchaunt, or Labourer, whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire & to cast on fa∣gots, in such sort that it is become so great, that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée a∣liue.

Can they quench it by that meanes?

You are not deceiued, hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God? No, but they doe kindle it dayly more and more.

I know the cause where∣fore they doe it. They do greatly feare least those Luthe∣rians and heretickes should not be dampned, and that they should not go into hell, sith that they denie the Purgatory, and that they will not enter, therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world, and to purge them from their sinnes, & to put them in Paradise against their wils. They doe well declare thereby, that they differ from the Persians, * who will not burne the dead bodyes, as the Greekes & La∣tines do, bicause they hold the fire as a God; and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies, and to nourish him with flesh. But these héere do giue him none other meat, but do sacrifice to him men, as the Idolatres dyd God Mo∣loch, Pluto, Saturnus, and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe. But one maye replye vnto mée, and saye, that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh.

I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that, as I am to sée how they make the princes & lords their hangmen, putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed.

They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those, who sayde vnto Pylate, speaking of Iesus Christe: we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye. But it * is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death. And there∣fore they praye ayde of the seculer power, the whiche men dare not refuse. I doe thincke that many Princes & Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander, against the Bactrianians. * The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde, and did thincke it to be the * best burying. For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose, and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose: * And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges. Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians, hée endeuoured himselfe to re∣forme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime. But he could neuer take order to reforme it, but to the con∣trary as witnesseth sainct Hierome, they did rise againste him, in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome. Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well, what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion, as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo. For that cause I thincke, that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy, called the dogges, the Chanons of mount Faucon, as I haue heard him often∣times say in his lessons. Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh, it is no meruaile though men do feare them, & that they féede them deintely, as they doe in Hircania. For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs, besides those that are kept & fed commonly in euery towne & village.

I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them, sith y^e they wil set no good order, according to y^e power that God hath giuen vnto them. I do greatly feare, that in y^e ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether. For they haue already wel begun.

Me * thincks that they take y^e Pope for Moloch, Pluto or Saturne, whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men. Page  59 The Pope woulde bée called our holy father, but that is such a father as Saturne was, who did eat his owne children * (if the Poets haue not lyed) but yet Rea his wife hid them from him, and kept them y^e he should not eate them. But the court of Rome, & the papisticall Church, who would be cal∣led our holy mother Church, doth eate them as well as our holy father: and in stéede to hide them from him, she sée∣keth euery where for to deuoure thē with him. Wherfore we may very well giue credit to the Poets, & accompt them as Prophetes herein. For me thincks that they haue true∣ly * prophesied and figured 〈◊〉 those Gods which we haue. I * would that the Princes would better aduise themselues in their doings, and that they doe not vnto the Pope, as Au∣gustus Caesar did vnto Iulius, vnto whom he sacrificed thrée hundreth men before his Alter the ninth of March of those that yéelded themselues.

I know not what to say of your matters, and am much abashed that Eusebius hol∣deth his peace all this while without speaking any woorde, that he taketh not the quarell in hande & the matter in ear∣nest for to defend the holy mother y^e church to which he bea∣reth so great zeale. How much doth purgatory cost thée eue∣ry yere Eusebius?

I will not make thée accompt, nor I wil not haue the trumpet blowen when I do any good déede.

I will tell thée the cause it that be true that they say, you and I haue lost much money, & our mat∣ter fareth very euill. Wherefore me thinckes you shoulde answere something, and alledge some reason against that y^e they say, or otherwise me thinckes you wil be vāquished, & that you do proue all that which you haue heard of them.

What reason will you that I alledge vnto peo∣ple without reason? It maketh me to tremble to heare their blasphemies, and I doe meruaile how God can suffer them, insomuch that in hearing them me thinckes that the earth should open hir mouthe and swallowe them vp. A lyttle thing would haue made me to haue gene away, and I am a∣mazed how I could heare it so long.

Haue you found our matters so out of reason.

But what reason is there to mocke so wyth God & with our holy mother the Church? I do greatly feare that God will not giue you grace to go from hence into pur∣gatory: But that he wil send you into hell, & that you shalbe of the number of those vnto whom Iesus Christ will saye: Goe ye cursed into euerlasting fire. For I wel know by your * owne words that you do smell of the brimstone and fagots, and that you are rancke heretickes. I doubt not, but y^e there hath ben a great many burned that haue ben honester men then you are.

Nor I also doubt it. she cannot denie but that the tyrants haue burned many holy Martyres, for the Gospel of * Iesus Christ, & doe yet still vnto this day a great many ho∣nester men then we. For if they had not bene good & honest men, they would not haue by their bloud sealed the witnesse of the truth.

I do wel perceiue that Eusebius wil leape by and by vpon the Asse, and will be in a rage, if men do vere him much.

Who would not be in a rage, bearing such matters? It were inough to make all men a∣liue in a rage, that haue any zeale vnto the holy catholike Church.

Forasmuch as thou thinckest that wée are so farre past reason, I pray thée, to aunswere vnto that which I wil aske thée. And if thou haue any good reasō, shew it foorth, for to draw mée from errour & heresie, if thou thin∣kest y^e I am fallen into any.

I will not dispute nor plead with you, but I had rather follow the counsaile of sainct Paul, who commaundeth me to reiect him that is an * hereticke. For it is forbidden to dispute with them. And I * do wel know, that I shall profit nothing, but to be peruerted, if I were not very strong in my faith. For as farre as I can perceiue, you are already to obstinate and hardned in your heresies: and as saint Paul sayth: Euill woords corrupt * good manners.

You haue spoken your minde. But before that you do condemne vs for heretickes, we must be vanqui∣shed of heresie. And if it should be so that we should fal into any errour & heresie, yet thou canst not cal vs hereticks, ex∣cept Page  60 it be knowne vnto thée that we were the authours and * inuenters of sects, or that we were obstinate and hardned in errour, and that through praise, arogancie, presumption or couetousnesse, & for some worldly gaine or profit, we woulde speake against the truth. For according to S. Augustines diffinition, such men ought to be taken for heretickes. But I beséech God we be not led with such affection. And when you shall know perfectly that we are heretickes, yet sainct Paul * doth not commaund vs to reiect an heretick at the first dash, but after once or twice admonition, when he sheweth him∣selfe incorrigible. And as yet you haue not admonished nor corrected vs, wherfore you cannot lawfully accuse vs, neither of obstination, nor yet of heresie. And to the ende that wée should giue the lesse occasion, I am content to heare patient∣ly all y^t which you will say, and beléeue that I shall receyue reason for paiment, vpon this condition also that you wyll heare mée, & talke with me quietly, as though you did count me for your Christian brother, vntill such time as you haue vanquished me by your reasons, & that you did fully know my obstination.

I would gladly sée Eusebius skirmish with you: But in the meane time I would also as gladly heare that some would speake of dinner, and to let that skirmish alone till afterward. For I do sée y^e the sunne is al∣ready very hye, and thincke that we haue forgotten to dine: For I haue a stomacke that barketh as the hungry hound, which kéepeth me y^e I cannot forget it.

Ther∣vnto I am thy compalgnion. Therfore I finde thy counsaile good. I know not how it is with you, but with me I haue a good appetite to drinck.

God knoweth that you are yet fasting at this masse. For you haue accustomed to fast.

Although I haue broken my fast twice, yet you ought not to be abashed although that I am much al∣tered. For we haue bene all y^e day about that fire of Purga∣tory, which hath so altered me that I thincke that all the holy water of the Priestes cannot quench the fire and the thirst which is in my throate.

I dooe be∣léeue verye well that you loue the wine better then Page  [unnumbered] he water, & that y^e same is the holy water that you require.

I do also beléeue that you are not much contrary from mine opinion, and I do not thinck, how good a catholike soeuer you be, that you would chaunge with a priest a pinte or quarte of wine, for a quarte of his holy water. At y^e least∣wise I would not: for I doe finde the one better and more profitable then the other. I know not how y^e soules of Pur∣gatory do like of the water, but I do like better of the wine: And if I must néedes drincke water, I had rather to mingle it with a little wine, then with salt, as the Priests do in their holy water.

They do it not for to drincke.

I beléeue it well: for they are not so deintie: & they loue the wine as well as I. But wherefore doe they it?

For to deface & purge the sinnes by the sprinckling thereoff.

I am ashamed of their folly. One may * very well say vnto them as Diogenes said vnto a certeyne Panim, who sprinckled himselfe with water for to purge his sinnes, after their auncient manner. O miserable man (saith he) if thou hast s••led in thy Grammer and committed a fault and incongruite, thou canst not be absolued w^c sprinckling of the water: how dost thou then thinck with the sprinckling of the water to be absolued and washed from thy sinnes?

It séemeth vnto me that if you haue such great thirst as you say, you wil not begin to enter into a new mat∣ter, for to make vs fast any longer.

Admit it were so y^t we had a day of fasting. For it is now Lent, & al∣though it were not yet I do beléeue y^t Eusebius would haue fasted & peraduenture Thomas also. And when we shalbe all vnder the Popes religion, we must thē fast the Lent al out, or els at the leastwise a great part thereoff.

It is true, and it is better for vs to fast at libertie, then through compulsion. But sith that ye be all of that minde, let vs goe then to dinner.