The defence of truth against a booke falsely called The triumph of truth sent over from Arras A.D. 1609. By Humfrey Leech late minister. Which booke in all particulars is answered, and the adioining motiues of his revolt confuted: by Daniell Price, of Exeter Colledge in Oxford, chaplaine in ordinary to the most high and mighty, the Prince of Wales.

CHAP. 4. M^r LEECH.

THis sermon being ended, and supper time immedi∣atly approaching; M. Doctor Hutton (one of the Channons of Christ Church; now deputed Pro∣vicechancellour in the absence of M^r. Doctour King) sent for me by one of my fellow Chaplaines into the commō kitchin,* 1.1 to conferre with me vpon the point delivered in my sermon.

ANSVVER.

The summe of this ensuing chap∣ter, was begot in the Kitchin, it is so full of smoake & heat. Your marginall note doth much tra∣duce Doctor Hutton, Prebenda∣ry, & Subdeane of Christ-Church; an auncient learned preacher, Professor, Doctor of Diuinity:

the least of these titles might haue restrained you in your duty towards him. But a more neere respect of obseruance bound you to reuerence him, not only for private, but for publicke authority; not only for feare, but for cōscience sake, saith the Apostle. He was the Ma∣gistrate, Provicechancellor, Deputy Governor of your betters, at that time; not in that house alone, but in the whole Vniuersity. He might haue sent for you by an officer, not your fellow Chaplaine; vnto a publique place, not so familiar; to cōvent, censure, imprison, pu∣nish you, not to conferre with you. It is not the place, that doth honest the man but the man the place. Lu∣cifer rebelled in heaven, Adam sinned in Paradise; whē as Lot served God in Sodom, Ioseph in Egypt. Better to speake truth in the Kitchin, then falsehoode in the Pulpit. The place of all other is least circumstantiall.

M^r LEECH.

Hither I no sooner came, but, hee (interessing himselfe in the quarrell of IOVINIAN) began very fiercely to as∣sault, and chardge me for preaching scandalous & erro∣neous doctrine; excepting farther against the tearmes of Angelicall Chastity, and Evangelicall Counsailes of perfection; expresly mentioned by me in the aforesaid ser∣mon.

ANSVVER.

For any Iovinian heresie that you taxe him with, or the opposers of your opinion, you knowe in your conscience that no Protestant ever defended anie of

them. S.r 1.2 Augustine in his tract De haeresibus ad Quod∣vult Deum, the 82. heresie, reciteth the divers positiōs of Iovinian: and I doe freely and fully protest, that I knowe no point wherewith our Church in that kinde may be accused. In what point of Iovinianisme was he guilty? name it. I am sure, if you could, you would. Your doctrine offered much offence, & therfore was scandalous; and was opposite to our Churches do∣ctrine, and therefore to be called erroneous.

M^r LEECH.

The onset being thus given by his worship, my warde was; Sir. (vnder your correction) the doctrine lately by me preached (howsoever you disconceipt it) is not, nay cannot possibly be either scandalous, or erroneous; for it is the doctrine of that great Pillar of the Latine Church S. Gre∣gory; accorded vnto, and confirmed by vniforme consent of fathers, both of the Greeke & Latine Church.

ANSVVER.

As Salomon spake ofs 1.3 making many books, so may I of vsing many words; There is no end: the one, wea∣rying of the flesh; the other, angariation to the spirit. It is not as you take it, the doctrine of that great Pillar of the Church, S. Gregory: it is a Doctrine which is the Pillar of Monkes, & I assure my selfe the Monkes would not maintaine it, vnlesse it did maintaine Monkes. The Fathers of the Greeke and Latine Church, are answe∣red so sufficiently, as that I hope you will change and challendge your Grand-Iurie for beeing too partiall for our part.

M^r LEECH.

As for the termes ofa 1.4 Angelicall Chastity; & Evan∣gelicall Counsailes of perfection, I haue not hammered them vpon any anvile in the forge of my owne braine, but rather borrow them from Orthodox Antiquity.

ANSVVER.

It is no doubt that you forged not these tearmes: for this mysterie of iniquity, though it be but novelty, hath beene more ancient then you. You quote pla∣ces in the Margent: the first out of Cyprian de bono pu∣dicitiae, a booke much doubted of to be his, as Reve∣rend M^rt 1.5 Perkins in his Probleme proveth; and the other out of Damascene, and Cyprian de Nativitate, & S. Hierome contra Iovinianum. For that booke of Cy∣prian de Nativitate, it is not only doubted of, but de∣nied by theu 1.6 Magdeburgenses,* 1.7 Erasmus,x 1.8 Scultetus; & by your owne,y 1.9 Iacobus Pamelius,z 1.10 Sixtus Senensis,a 1.11 Antonius Possevinus, andb 1.12 Bellarmin. But suppose it were Cyprians, & that those other Fathers did speake so largely of virginity: yet you know that by their Hy∣perbolicall praising of it, they almost made an Idoll of it. And therefore the Iesuitc 1.13 Acosta cōfesseth, con∣cerning S. Hierome; Dum oppugnatores virginitatis in∣sectans, videtur aliquando matrimonio iniquior. They thought it the fittest kinde of life, for those times, be∣cause of the imminent daunger of persecution: but

c 1.14 Espencaeus denyeth not, nay absolutly affirmeth, that in these times a man may marrie, & yet his marriage no hinderāce to his desire of a more perfect life: Nup∣tiae licèt plurimum difficultatis habent, sic tamen assumi possunt, vt vitae perfectiori impedimento non sint.

M^r LEECH.

Against this he replyed; that if I preached any errone∣ous doctrine out of S. Gregory (such as this must needes be) then both the defence of the doctrine, and Author him∣selfe would be required at my hands. For (said hee) cannot Gregory haue his errours, but you must broach thē here to infect this place with POPERY?

ANSVVER.

He required with much wisedome but that which was reason. If it be the Apostles rule, that every one must be able to giue accompt of the hope that is in him: then much more a Preacher to giue accompte of his doctrine. And that Gregory is thought to hold some points erroneous, I doubt not but your Ghost∣ly Fathers will enioine you to beleeue. For besides that many errors are imputed to the Fathers byd 1.15 Six∣tus Senensis,e 1.16 Possevine, andf 1.17 Melchior Canus: Gregorie in particular, is reiected by ag 1.18 Champion of your own, in Apologia Tumultuaria, wherein the Author thus basely disclaimeth Gregories iudgement; Gregorius hîc non est audiendus, ne{que} quantum ad ius naturae, ne{que} quā∣tum ad honestatem: Gregory here is not to be heard, ne∣ther as concerning the right of nature, nor honestie.

And before giveth the reason,* 1.19 Scripturas obtorto collo ad suum institutum pertrahit: for with a wrested necke he draweth the Scripture to his owne purpose. And Hart in his conference with Doctor Rainolds,* 1.20 doeth scornefully reiect the opinion of Gregory: and there∣fore it was not so vnfitly said that Gregory had his er∣rours. The Church of Rome denyeth him in manie things, as will appeare: andh 1.21 Durand concludeth; Gre∣gorius, quum fuerit homo, non Deus, potuit errare. And therefore D. Hutton spake truely, Gregory hath his er∣rours.

M^r LEECH.

This was the accompt, that the culinariā Doctor made of S. Gregory the great; one of the holyest,* 1.22 & learnedst do∣ctours, that ever breathed in the Catholique Church; ex∣celling S. Antony in holinesse, S. Cyprian in eloquence, S. Augustin in wisdome; full of compunction, humilitie, the grace and feare of God; indued with such light of know¦ledge, that not any of the present time was equall vnto, no nor of the former: to whose morall exposition of scripture all the doctours giue place, & that in the iudgment of a ge∣nerall councell.

ANSVVER.

Cham in Noahs family, or Dathan in Moses Policie, coulde not haue vented out more loathsome vn∣seemely speeches, then this your Culinarian Title of him, whom you were bound to, not only for the par∣ticipation of Gods blessings to you in his learning,

wisedome, governement; but especially for his wor∣thy care, and loue to you, beeing a speciall meanes to bring you into that Colledge. Of God the Psalmist testifieth, that he setteth vp one, and putteth downe ano∣ther: but that you shoulde so presume to extoll one Doctor, and disgrace another, I do beleeue you vvill much blame your selfe vpon due examination. Your scoffing at Doctor Hutton is senselesse and gracelesse: the most learned, reverend, and ancient here, will testi∣fie against your greasie scoffe, that his young yeeres were beautified with al kinde of learning, in which he was eminent, his middle yeeres with all ingenuity in iudgement, his reverend yeeres with great wisdome in government. Therefore forbeare scornes. Concer∣ning S. Gregorie, we are willing to giue him whatsoe∣ver he deserveth: but it is very Hyperbolicall and vndis∣creet in you, to affirme, that none of the latter should be like him, none of the former. Comparisons are e∣ver odious, and dangerous. And yet we could be cō∣tent to afford S. Gregory that attribute of greatnesse, which Alexāder had in Greece, Pompey in Rome, Arsaces in Parthia,* 1.23 and Charles in France: but to giue him so many Titles as Eusebius records that Galerius had, Pō∣tifex Maximus, Thebaicus Maximus, Sarmaticus Ma∣ximus, Quinquies Persarum Maximus, &c: the grea∣test Bishop, greatest in Thebes, greatest in Sarmatia, in Persia fiue times greatest, greatest in Germany, grea∣test in Aegypt, to giue so many titles of greatnesse to your Gregory, is to make him a monster. That hee should exceede S. Anthony, S. Cyprian, S. Austin; all that know their storie, will deny. Anthony not worthy to be cōpared with Austine: nor Gregory with Cyprian,

or Austin: for these two most worthy pillers of the Church, were as the flowers of Roses in the spring of the yeere, as Lilyes by the fountaines of waters, as branches of Frankincense in the time of Sommer, as faire Oliues that bee fruitful, or Cypres trees that grow to the Clowdes, asi 1.24 Ecclesiasticus speaketh of o∣thers. Cyprian for eloquence, Austin for dexterity of wit, wisedome, learning. Cyprian was, ask 1.25 Nazianzene re∣porteth him, the great name of Carthage & of all the world; whose name was famous in all Churches, both Heretique and Christian; whose name and workes Nazianzene professeth he reverenced, more then he did all others, and for his eloquence surpassed all o∣ther men, so farre as other men doe bruit beasts. Saintl 1.26 Ierome calleth him sweet, professing that the Lord dwelt in him, andm 1.27 Austin calleth him a most sweet Doctor, and most blessed Martyr, and concludeth of him; Tanti meriti, tanti pectoris, tanti oris, tantae vir∣tutis Episcopus. And concerning blessed Austin,n 1.28 Pau∣linus calleth him the salt of the earth, a Candle worthy to be set on the candlestick of the Church, his mouth like a Conduit pipe of living water, a veine of that eternall fountaine.o 1.29 Erasmus testifieth of him, his name be∣ing Aurelius Augustinus, that the world hath nothing magis aureum, vel augustius; that there never was a golden name more worthily giuen to any, then to him. And if I shall reckon Titles giuen to him, that is called the perfection of the Fathers, the Hammer of He∣retiques, the Treasure, Megasine, liuing librarie of learning, and infinite his other Titles: it would be te∣dious. Nay Iesuits and all kind of Papists afford him such Encomtasticks, that never had any Father of the

Church so many. Lookec 1.30 Possevin in his Aparatu sacro, where he giueth him the greatest and worthiest Ti∣tles, that ever any Doctor of the Church had, and te∣stifieth that by the consecration of thed 1.31 Florentine Synod, he was called Illustrissimus Latinorū Doctorum. You see how grosse your comparison is. Concer∣ning the approbation of a general Councell, there is no such thing directly named in any of the Concilia Toletana, being 13 in number. The only Councell of all which, that mentioneth Gregory, is the last; of whiche 1.32 Caranza in the Epitome of Councells, giueth this note, Nihil habet hoc concilium singulari annotatione dignum.

M^r LEECH.

* 1.33Did it then become M. Doctor Hutton to detract frō the due worth of so great, and learned a Saint? since I may yet adde this to perfect his praise; whatsoever hee was vnto others, doubtlesse vnto vs he was an Apo∣stle (to speake in the phrase of the Apostle) to whom our English nation standeth perpetually obliged for her con∣version from Paganisme vnto the Christian faith.* 1.34

ANSVVER.

Gregory was not our Apostle. All histories be against you. Britaine had true religion planted here, before your Gregory or his Monke Austin were extant. It is recorded by yourf 1.35 Chronologicall Cardinall, that Ioseph of Arimathaea was here:g 1.36 Theodoret saith, S. Paul;h 1.37 Baronius thinketh, S Peter;i 1.38 Nicephorus saith, that

Simon Zelotes: andk 1.39 Tertullian,l 1.40 Origen, and other of the most worthy of the Fathers doe affirme, that the Gospell was planted here in the time of the Pri∣mitiue Church. And that you shall not reply, that re∣ligion was extinguished, and afterwards lightned by Gregory: I say, religion was not extinct at the com∣ming of that proud petty Monke, Austin, whom hee sent. Witnessem 1.41 Bede whom you vntruly cite, who writeth that before Austins comming, the Britaines were troubled with Arrianisme and Pelagianisme: but that three French Bishops delivered them. And the forger of the three cōversionsn 1.42 testifieth more, that from king Lucius time vntill the comming of Austin, which was foure hundred yeeres and more, they did not alter their faith, but it remained among them when he entred. Therefore Gregory converted not our land, per se, nor per aliū. And Austin, as impetuous or imperious as he was, was but Gregories Curat. For Gregory, at that time, aso 1.43 Cassander observeth, did change the Lyturgies and service bookes, vsed in our westerne parts: for which cause it is likely Austin came ouer. So that Gregory and Austin converted bookes, not soules: and therefore were Translators, Cor∣rectors; no Apostolicall Doctors, or founders of our Church.

M^r LEECH.

But to passe over the praise of this bright shining star in the firmamēt of the Church; my reioynder was, that this doctrine must first be proved to be erroneous & scanda∣lous before any such imputation ought (vpō any absolute

necessity) to be imposed, and fastened vpon it, since scādall doth arise from errour, & errour is an approbatiō of that, which is false in iudgement, and vnderstanding.

ANSVVER.

The answer of the Philosopher inp 1.44 Laertius, to one that immoderatly praised him, was fit for you: Me hic aut ludit, aut odit; this fellow would procure me to be scorned, or hated. Your vnmeasurable LASHON of cōmēding Gregory, it deserveth no other speech. We esteem Gregory to be the best Pope, from the yeere a∣bout 600, wherein he lived, to this present. He never held theq 1.45 supremacy,r 1.46 merits, and other points of Po∣pery: and he never taught this Doctrine, as you do; & therefore the error, & scandal must remaine with you not with him.

M^r LEECH.

And as for defending of S. Gregory, my opinion then was, and now is, that the very name, it selfe, and Authori∣ty of this worthy Father ought and would rather (amongst all learned, and iudicious divines) be my iust defence & ful dischardge, then that his credit should bee so farre called in question, as now (after a 1000. yeares continuance in the Catholique Church of Christ: being generally reputed Or∣thodox so long) to stande in neede of mine, or any other mans defence whatsoever.

ANSVVER.

The worthines of Gregory is not denyed: But that

his very name should be sufficient to prescribe against all opposers, and to patronize your conceipt, it is much doubted. Concerning Gregory, I thinke of the reading of him, as S.s 1.47 Ierome doth of reading the other Fa∣thers: Meum propositum est antiquos legere, probare sin∣gula, retinere quae bona sunt, & à fide Ecclesiae non recede∣re. I would you had taken this course in reading Gre∣gory. But for the point in hand; you haue not in al the words of S. Gregory, the distinctiō of Praeceptū, & Con∣silium: no place that defineth Evangelica consilia, nei∣ther their name, number, or any thing concerning thē. And therefore to any never so little intelligent, you will seeme strangely ridiculous, to make Gregory, God∣father to that childe he never knewe; or Author of that doctrine, which he never taught, or thought. Wee call not his credit into question: I would yours did it not, as I formerly shewed, and especiallyt 1.48 Baronius, who speaking of the barrennesse of learning in Gregory his time, sheweth that Gregory himselfe was ignoraunt in many things.

M^r LEECH.

And yet rather then the doctrine shall be thus odiouslie traduced, and my Author want his promerited defence, I will according to that poore ability (wherewith God hath enabled me) endeuor to defend both it, and him: and there∣fore if S. Gregory, in this point, hath not transgressed the boūds of Ancienter Church, nor crossed any tenent of his owne Present Church, nor yet, for this, hath hitherto been censured by the lawfull iudgement of any Catholique suc∣ceeding Church; nay if the Church more ancient then his,

his owne present, and the ever after succeeding Centuries of Catholique Church haue, from hand to hand, deliuered vnto him, receiued with him, and with vniforme consent followed him in this point of doctrine, never so much as once noting it, questioning it, impugning it, cōtradicting it (which certainely they would haue done, had the doctrine beene erroneous: for their devoted piety spared no Here∣tique,* 1.49 no not the most renowned martyrs, nor glorious fa∣thers of the Church in any of their errors, repugnant vn∣to the vnity of Catholique verity) then, vpon these premi∣ses, I may irrefragably conclude in defence of my Authour, and doctrine, that S. Gregory his position is no privat o∣pinion hatched out of his owne braine, but the vniforme deduction, and tradition of Christ his spouse the true Ca∣tholique, never erring Church inspired, guided, & dire∣cted by God his holy spirit in all ages.

ANSVVER.

Rather then you will let truth haue the superemi∣nence, quae magna est & praevalet, you will continue to father your opinion vpon Gregory, yea and vpon the Primitiue & Derivatiue Church.* 1.50 But it is hard for you to kicke against the truth. The weedes of supereroga∣tion, growing vnder the shaddow of Evangelicall Coun∣sailes, haue had no time of encrease of growing, in the ancient primitiue Church. None of the first and wor∣thier Fathers, taught it. It is a common, but not commē∣dable vse among you, of imposturing & interpreting the Fathers in a wrong sense. The chiefest groūd for your doctrine, is the misinterpreting of that place of S. Paule: which sense neither the Originall will carrie,

nor any Greeke Father ever followed. And that bles∣sed servant of God M^r Perkins, in his Probleme, pro∣veth against opposers, how farre the Fathers were from mainetaining workes of supererogation. Physiti∣ans, that meane to cure the disease, first beginnne with the cause: so giue me leaue, seeing workes of superero∣gation bee only the inductions and cause of teaching this doctrine. First I desire you to answere, whether S. Hierome thought any such works were performed, who disclaiming them, thus speaketh,p 1.51 Tum ergo iusti sumus, quando nos peccatores fatemur, & iustitia nostra non ex proprio merito, sed ex Dei consistit misericordia; or, whether S.q 1.52 Augustine doth thinke a man might supererogate, who affirmeth a contrary positiō, Om∣nia mandata Dei facta deputantur, quando quicquid non fit, ignoscitur; orr 1.53 Chrysostome, who in his 8. homily on the 4. to the Romanes affirmeth, No man to bee iustified by the Law, because none can fulfill the Law;s 1.54 or Bernard, in his 73. vpō the Canticles, who wisheth no man to trust to his own iustice, or fulfilling of the Law; or, to approch neerer, what meantt 1.55 Gerson, that famous Doctor, to deny any perfection in Evangelicall counsailes. Secōd∣ly, I desire you to answere, whyu 1.56 Aquinas teacheth that perfection doth essentially (which is perfectly) consist in keeping the Commandements (which none can do,) and in the fulfilling of the Lawe, if that perfe∣ction of Counsailes bee so much aboue the Law; whyx 1.57 Paludanus vpon the Sentences, doth affirme, that some men may attaine to as great height of perfection, liuing in marriage, and possessing much, as they that liue single, and giue away all that they haue. I will aske no more questions, but seeing this is so taught by so many reve∣rend

Ancients, yea & by many of your owne later,y 1.58 Iansenius in his 100. chapter vpon the Evangelicall concord professing with Gerson and Aquinas, that on∣ly the fulfilling of the law doth iustifie, andz 1.59 Cardinall Cu∣sanus confessing that none but Christ ever did fulfill the Commandements; seeing all this is thus: why will you so boldly affirme, that this doctrine was never im∣pugned, never contradicted, &c: which indeede was never rather taught, never approved? It is true, S. Gre∣gory was never contradicted in this, for hee never taught any such thing: But this opinion was gaine∣said, and disliked; and the Church never received, ne∣ver generally delivered any such position. Although if it had, your epithet of never erring Church is scarce currant: for you cannot deny but the Church hath had her blots.a 1.60 S. Ierome cōplained that the whole world groaned and wondred to see it selfe Arrian; &b 1.61 Vin∣centius Lerinēsis confesseth, that not only some por∣tion of the Church, but the whole Church may be blot∣ted with contagion. But this was none of her blots, spots, or infectious blemishes: for shee never gene∣rally mainetained, or taught this Doctrine.

M^r LEECH.

But M. Doctour Hutton lending a deafe eare vnto my defence (though in my conscience, and iudgement, it ought to haue satisfied him) sounded another alarome, and ringed a fresh peale in my eares, charging, nay surchar∣ging me (ad nauseam vsque) for holding any distinction betwixt Precepts & Counsailes. For (saide hee) there is no such distinction: those, which you falsely cal Coūsailes,

are in deed Precepts and not Counsailes.

ANSVVER.

The Comoediāc 1.62 Plautus taxeth some that had no stuffe in them but in their tongue, and that only in speaking lewdly of their betters; Isthic est thesaurus stultis in lingua situs, ut quaestui habent malè loqui melio∣ribus. Let the lawes of God, Nature, and Nations moue you to reverence this honest and learned Do∣ctour: hee did truely, and wisely chardge you, that S. Gregory had no such distinction. Praeceptum, and prae∣cipitur, be Gregory his words. In your strongest place out of him, you can vrge no such thing. That the Fa∣thers haue called virginity, poverty, &c: precepts, shall hereafter appeare at large. In the meane time, to pre∣scribe against al opposers, to giue you a tast, & to bring your metall to the test before I try it by the ballance: Virginity is called a precept byd 1.63 Athanasius, his words be, Omnium Rex Christus tantùm valuit praeceptis sui••, vt pueri nondum maturi legum disciplinae, virginitatem quae supra leges, profiteantur; Poverty and leaving of al, is accoūted a precept bye 1.64 Hilary on the 19. of Mat∣thew, where on those wordes, vende omnia, hee thus speaketh, Adolescens insolens iacturam legis facere prae∣cipitur. And not only these, but many other of the Fathers doe so call them, thereby strongly invading your opinion.

M^r LEECH.

And this was his definitiue resolution, sifting out of

the sieue of the Church all the wheaten meale, I meane the fine flower of spirituall Poverty, Angelicall Chastity, & leauing nought else within it, but the branne, and huskes of Iovinian his heresie; which (to speake of it in one word, as it deserveth) is the very evacuation, and exinanition of all the best fruits of our Christian religion. And this he did with an earnest protestation; not being able to con∣taine himselfe from vowing, and solemnely swearing be∣fore God, that he would send me vp to my Lord Bishoppe of London, to answer the point before the high Commis∣sion.

ANSVVER.

The Church is compared to the house of God: but that in this house there should be such a vtensile as a sieue, I never read nor heard. It is not mystica vannus Iacchi, that it should as you thinke, after such a prepo∣sterous maner, retaine the bad and shake out the good. I leaue your sifting comparison, and yet will remem∣ber you,f 1.65 that there is one, who shall come with his fanne in his hand, & shal purge his flower, gathering his wheate, burning his chaffe. You seeme ignorant of the difference betweene asseverations & oaths, when you tearme Doctor Huttons earnest and religious protes∣tation, an oath, David to Ionathan, Vriah to David, E∣lisha to Eliah, the Sunamite to Elisha, S. Paule to theg 1.66 Corinths,h 1.67 Timothy andi 1.68 Galathians, did vse more earnest and vehement protestations: and yet were not taxed for swearing. Sathan hath his brand for accu∣sing his brethren: how full you are of Accusatiues, e∣very page doth betray it selfe. He maintained no part

of Iouinians heresie, vttered no oath in any violent fer∣vency: you straine out vires and virus, passion and poison against him, that afforded you much loue and compassion, who was a meanes to obtaine a place for you in that house, and, when some distasting you sought to work your remoue, he defēded you against that storme.

M^r LEECH.

To this I replied. Sir: the distinction betwixt Pre∣cepts & Counsels is no devise of mine, but the doctrine of S. Paul, grounded vpon Christ his restrictiue negatiue; non omnes capiunt: wherevpon S. Paul had no precept: and vpon Christ his exhortatiue affirmatiue, qui potest capere capiat. Herevpon the Apostle giueth his counsell; Consilium do:* 1.69 and thus all ancient Church hath inter∣preted his sentence.

ANSVVER.

It was not S. Pauls doctrine, Counsell is not his worde, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is not so translated, the Lexicons shew that the greeke Poets & Orators did not so vnderstand it, Doctor Benefield hath so sufficiently answered it, that there is no gainesaying. The heresie of Nestorius lay but in the chāge of one letter, taking 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: & those many Bishops that resisted Nestori∣us as S.k 1.70 Basill observeth, were so religious in the car∣riage of that controversie, that they woulde not ex∣chāge a syllable or letter. If the change of a letter may doe so much: what may the misinterpretation of a

word? though it be a very naked proofe, to ground any point of beliefe vpon one word, howsoever vnderstood. I know you haue not distilled much out of the School-limbiques, & therefore wil remember you of this di∣stinct difference betweene counsell, & sentence; that the one is proper to the will,* 1.71 the other to the vnderstan∣ding. The place of Scripture out of Christes mouth, maketh nothing in this matter for you, non omnes ca∣piunt, &c. The later wordes of the Text answere the former: Omnes non capiunt hoc: Christ his speech is in∣terpreted in respect of the common condition of na∣ture in generall. So virginity may be proposed, not imposed vpon any: none may be compelled, none constrained therevnto; but Capiuntij quibus datū, they must, that are able to take it vpon thē. And so Christ inioineth, enforceth, & commandeth them by an Im∣peratiue in the 12. verse; He that is able to receiue this, let him receiue it. Thus the Church hath, and doth inter∣pret this speech. Omnes nō capiunt, all in generall not enforced, because not enabled: but, qui potest capere ca∣piat, he that is so furnished by Gods spirit, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, hee is commāded by this word of God: it is not volunta∣ry, but necessary; therefore no counsell, but a cōmande, and so consequently, the place maketh not for you.

M^r LEECH.

But admit (by way of supposition) your peremptory con∣clusion, and suppose that there bee no counsailes, but let all be precepts; do they not thē as Precepts binde you, & that sub poenâ? For that which is a precept is commanded; that which is commanded, must be done of necessity; that, which

must perforce be done, is punished being left vndone: & in vaine is that commanded as necessary, which is left in the free choice of the commanded as volūtary as S. Hierome teacheth. Wherefore giue me leaue (without offence) to de∣maunde; why do you, or any other marry, or possesse anie of the worlds goods? Ought your practise to bee cōtrary to the precept? And doth not S. Gregory teach, that if coūsailes were precepts, then were it sin, and that damnable too, to possesse any of the worlds goods? And were not mariage ta∣ken away (which is no lesse then flat heresie) if virginitie were a precept? as S. Basill and the Fathers teach.

ANSVVER.

The Stoicks divided the offices of Philosophy into 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, perfectum et commune. So the Pa∣pists distinguish al the duties of a Christians life, into these two; Counsells, and precepts:k 1.72 and so by the Pha∣rises ^l Corban, they affect such perfection by the rule of Counsaile, as that they transgresse the law of Com∣mandement: for, asm 1.73 Pezelius noteth, they make thē Perfectiores leges Evangelicas, which be but Enarrati∣ones decalogi. But to your supposition, how vmbra∣gious soeuer you seeme to be, it is manifest you ne∣ver vnderstood the state of the question. Counsells are precepts, I can easily bring a Iurie of Fathers to proue it, not such as you impanelled to condemne your selfe. Precepts, I say, they be to particular men, who exceed others in gifts of grace. And because much shall bee required of him, that hath much gi∣uen him: therefore a Counsell as a praecept doth ob∣lige not all in generall, but him that is particularly

furnished by God, for such a purpose and service; and therefore he that hath the gift of chastity, other cir∣cumstances concurring, is bound sub poena, not to marry. S. Hierom doth only speake of generall pre∣cepts: and the place in Gregory is oft cited, and as oft answered, but not quoted at all. But I say the same of him,* 1.74 as of Hierome: for Gregory is most plaine in the point, in the 25 Chapt. of the 26 booke of Mo∣ralls, his words be, specialis iussio, and specialia praecepta, and specialiter imperatur; and the distinction of gene∣rale praeceptum, & speciale praeceptum, is so often repea∣ted about the midst of that Chapter, as nothing can be more plain. So that Ierome and Gregory come over to vs: for they meane speciall precepts, not generall. And certainely, as S. Basil speaketh, if virginity were a generall command to all, it would exclude mar∣riage but being not, some may marry, some liue chast, all doe well.

M^r LEECH.

This I demanded; but hee then passed it ouer with si∣lence; and therefore I expect his answere now, how hee cā avoid this consequence, which followeth vpon his own lear∣ning.

ANSVVER.

* 1.75The words of the wise are like Goads, & like nailes fa∣stened by the masters of the assemblies, saith Salomon. His words might haue satisfied you, if truth and reason would haue yeelded you satisfaction: but a false opi∣nion once grounded is like poison fully setled, or like Deianiraes shirt; it wil hardly be shaken of without

plucking the skinne with it.

M^r LEECH.

As for sending me vp to London, to answere the point there, my reply was; that, for my part, I was ready to answere vnto the point, and to iustify the doctrine ei∣ther there, or else where in what consistory soever in the kingdome. Only for your own credit sake, and place (said I) which you supply, I wish that it would please you to bee better advised; at least to conferre with some other do∣ctors, who heard the sermon as well as your selfe, and ma∣turely to deliberate, whether there be scandalum datum, or acceptum, a scandall on my part iustly giuen, or on your part vniustly taken; and whether your exception a∣gainst my doctrine will beare waight, or no being poysed in an indifferent ballance of equity; before you resolue vpon this precipitation. Otherwaies, you shall bewray great want of sound iudgement in opinion, and disclose much oversight in discretion.

ANSVVER.

o 1.76Pericles had that skill in wrastling, that though he receiued a fall, yet hee would perswade the wrastler that cast him, and others that beheld him, that he cō∣quered. I know no such subtelty in you, as you would haue your hearers to beleeue: but sure I am, you did not braue it so with the Doctor as you here relate. In all these proceedings of D. Hutton, you haue iniured him much, but your selfe more: you know what slayeth the soule, and therefore ought to forbeare al insulting

tearmes, iniust imputations, circumstantiall dispa∣radgments, false relations, and to regard age and au∣thority, learning & piety, so are you bound by feare and conscience. What, other Doctors iudged, concer∣ning your sermon, you knowe, by those reverend Di∣vines and governors among vs, when you were cen∣sured about it: and therefore it is an idle question, whe∣ther you gaue or tooke the offence. The doctrine, you know, was Papisticall: therefore you ought not to haue obtruded such a point in the pulpit. Christs speech is generall,p 1.77 whosoeuer shall offend one of these little ones that beleeue in me, it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck, and that hee were drowned in the depth of the sea. Your weapons were made on the Philistims forges:* 1.78 your arguments were neither de veritate, nor pro veritate; Neither truth of matter, nor sobriety of speech, had place in your tempestuous conceit, & disiointed sermon. You were not so willing to answere at London, nor so peremp∣tory to accuse the Doctor for want of iudgement in o∣pinion, or ouersight in discretion.

M^r LEECH.

And farther; I assure you; call me whether you will into questiō, I shall discharge my selfe with sufficient cre∣dit, when you shall gaine little by questioning my doctrine or molesting me causelesly.

ANSVVER.

You wel ad the word farther, for you never spake so

farre as this: you haue a strange gift of amplification, you scarse spake the tēth part of that, which you haue here so enlarged, as is confirm'd and averred by wise & honest witnesses that heard it. This large discourse was not extant then. You neither durst, nor could babble so much in so short a time. you durst not, for your distraction that night, observed by many, was very much: it shewd that then you had not altoge∣ther dispassioned your conscience, but that there was some sparke, which did feare and follow you, observed by her owne eie, though no other eie should perceiue her; chased by her own foot, though nothing, either in heauen, or earth should pursue her. Relation tells me there was some ouerture of compunction then, in you; your looks, gestures, words gaue testimony, that you durst not speake so peremptorily. And, that you could not, it is plaine: scarse three questions and answers passing between you, and those rather commanding your Coppy, then disputing the question.

M^r LEECH.

Here the kitchin-conference brake vp: only, in the loose, he required a copy of that doctrine of Counsells delivered by me out of S. Gregory. To this I voluntarily condescended: adding these words to intimate my confi∣dent resolution. Sir. For the doctrine, I will request no fauor at your hands: only I hope that you will doe me iustice: if not, assure your selfe, I shall right my selfe else where. This was the last period of our confe∣rence at that time: and so wee parted: supper calling vs both away.

ANSVVERE.

So much for your saucy & vnsauory kitchin-stuffe. You need not againe to insist vpon the place, a circū∣stance in that businesse lest materiall. And the advan∣tage of malice and hatred hence, is very small, if duly considered. Therefore breefly to enforme the Chri∣stian indifferent Reader; Concerning that aspertion of disgrace, you call the kitchin conference, thus it was, as I haue receiued it, from the mouthes, & vnder the hands of those it concerneth. Presently vpon your sermon, you were sent for, because of the generall dis∣tast thereof: being not found before Euening prayer, you were sought for againe, after that divine service, but not found, till M. Doctor Hutton, Subdeane, was come into the kitchin, instantly before supper. A cō∣mon order and custome in that house required, that the Subdeane & Treasurer should (as you well know) come into the kichin to see that provision & service performed, as Bursers doe in some of our lesser Col∣ledges, Stewards in others. You being first met with there, were examined, the copy required, you were admonished not to preach the like doctrine, taxed for not vnderstanding S. Gregory, reproued learnedly; and lastly, threatned to bee sent to the Castell, if you did not with some speed yeeld vp your Papers.

Notes

• * 1.1

  A place fitt to treat vppon Io∣vinianisme; but vnfit for the sa∣cred mysteries of Religion.
• r 1.2

  Aug. de hae∣resibus ad quod vult De um haeres. 82.
• s 1.3

  Eccl. 12.12.
• a 1.4

  Virginity e∣qualleth it selfe to Angells; yea, if wee examine well the matter we shall finde it to exceed An∣gells; for that contrary to na∣ture, it getteth a victory in flesh aboue flesh which Angells doe not. Cypr. de bono pudicitiae. Virginity (an Angelicall gift) exceedeth ma∣trimony, as much as an An∣gell excelleth a man. Damas. l. 4. Orthodoxae fidei cap. 25. Vide Cypr. de nati∣vitate Christi & Hieron. lib. 1. contra Iovini∣an.
• t 1.5

  Perkins in his problem.
• u 1.6

  Cent. 3. cap. 10. p. 245.
• * 1.7

  In edit. Bas. apud Froben. 1520.
• x 1.8

  Medul. Pa∣trum com. 1. lib. 24. p. 37.
• y 1.9

  In argumēt, lib. de Card. operib{us} Chri∣sti.
• z 1.10

  Biblioth. sanctae lib. 4. de falsa librorum inscriptione.
• a 1.11

  In appar. sacr. voce Cy∣prianus.
• b 1.12

  De amist. grat. & stat. pec. lib 6. c. 2.
• c 1.13

  Acosta lib. 2. de virginitate c. 18.
• c 1.14

  Espen. com. in 1. Tim. 3.
• d 1.15

  Biblioth. sanct. l. 5. c. 6.
• e 1.16

  Biblioth. se∣lect. lib. 12. c. 23. p. 53.
• f 1.17

  Mel. Can. lib. 7. de loc. Theol. l. 4. c. 6. obs. 2. p. 558
• g 1.18

  Tumul tua∣ria Apol. pro dispens. ma∣trim. Henri. fol. 46. § de Noverca.
• * 1.19

  Apol. Tumul.
• * 1.20

  Conference betweeene Do∣ctor Rainolds and Hart. pag. 386. line 21. Gregory did mistake the words of Scrip∣ture.
• h 1.21

  Durand. l. 4. sent. dist. 7. q. 4.
• * 1.22

  Ildephons. de viris illustribus ca. 2. Isidore de viris illustribus cap. 2. Vide Greg. Turon. lib. 20. histor. de laudibus Gregorii.
• * 1.23

  Euseb.
• i 1.24

  Ecclesiast.
• k 1.25

  Naz. Orat. in Cyprianū.
• l 1.26

  Epist. ad Paulinum de instit. monat.
• m 1.27

  De doct. Christ. c. 40.
• n 1.28

  Epist. ad Aug. 31. & 37.
• o 1.29

  Eras. epist. praef. 1. tom. Augustini.
• c 1.30

  Possevin. in appar. sacr. p. 151. 152.
• d 1.31

  Synod. Flo∣rent.
• e 1.32

  Caranza in Epitome Cō∣ciliorum.
• * 1.33

  Concilium Tolc∣tan.
• * 1.34

  Beda, Eccles. hist. Angl. lib. 2. cap. 1.
• f 1.35

  Baron. Ann. 35. num. 5.
• g 1.36

  Theod. de curand. grec affect. lib. 9.
• h 1.37

  Bar. anno 597. n. 20.
• i 1.38

  Nic. l. 2. c 40.
• k 1.39

  Tertul. ad∣vers. Iudaeos
• l 1.40

  Orig. in Hom. 4. in. E∣sec.
• m 1.41

  Lib. 1. c. 8. 17. 21.
• n 1.42

  Three con. par. 1. c 9. n. 1
• o 1.43

  Ordo. Rom. praef.
• p 1.44

  Diog. Laert. in vit. Phil.
• q 1.45

  Reg. Epist. lib. 9. ep. 9.
• r 1.46

  Lib. 7. ep. 69. l. 7. ep. 30.
• s 1.47

  Hier. in ep. ad Romanum
• t 1.48

  Bar. Tom. 8. Annal. Ann. Christi 1593. num. 62. p. 57.
• * 1.49

  Origen. Millie∣nar; Tertul. Montanising Cypr. rebapti∣sing.
• * 1.50

  Act. 9.
• p 1.51

  Hier. lib. 1. c. 3. cont. Pelag.
• q 1.52

  Retract. l. 1. c. 19.
• r 1.53

  Chrys. in 8. Hom. in. 4. ad. Roman.
• s 1.54

  Bern. in 73 ser. in Cant.
• t 1.55

  De Consil. Evang. & sta∣tu perfectio∣nis.
• u 1.56

  Aq. 22 dae. Art. 5.
• x 1.57

  In sent. lib. 3. distinct. 34, q. 3.
• y 1.58

  Ians. in 100. Cap. in E∣vang.
• z 1.59

  Cus. excit. lib. 10.
• a 1.60

  Dial. con∣tra Lucif.
• b 1.61

  Aduers. proph. Novit.
• c 1.62

  Plautus.
• d 1.63

  Athan. in e∣dit. Comelin. Graecol. p. 77.
• e 1.64

  Hilary in 19. Mat.
• f 1.65

  Mat. 3.12.
• g 1.66

  2. Cor. 11.31
• h 1.67

  1. Tim. 2.7.
• i 1.68

  Gal. 1.20.
• * 1.69

  1. Cor. 7.21.
• k 1.70

  Basil. apud Theod. l. 4. c. 19.
• * 1.71

  Aquin. 22 dae.
• k 1.72

  Mat. 7.11.
• m 1.73

  Pez. p. 552.
• * 1.74

  Greg. mor. l. 26. cap. 25.
• * 1.75

  Eccles. 12.
• o 1.76

  Theod. in Plut. Pericl.
• p 1.77

  •• Mat. 18.6.
• * 1.78

  Aug.