Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ...

Scriptures obiected, answered.

For praying to Angels.

Gen. 48. 16. The Angell which redeemed mee from all euill, blesse the Lads.

Answ. 1. Iacob beginneth his Prayer to God, verse 15. and addeth this Angell as equall with God: for he saith, God that feedeth, The Angell that deliuereth, blesse these children. Where there is a continuall ioynt act of both, as both being but one indeed. For God, as Esay saith, wil giue his glory to none other. And Dauid ascribes redeeming to the Lord, Psal. 31. 5.

II. It is cleare, that the Angell, which deliuered Iacob, was God, Gen. 31. 11. where the Angell saith, that hee is the God of Bethel, verse 13. This is the Angell whom hee there prayed vnto to be deliuered, chap. 32. 11. and here acknowledgeth to haue redeemed him.

III. Iacob prayeth that this Angell would blesse the chil∣dren. Now God onely giueth blessings, Iam. 1. 17. Ioh. 3. 27. Psal. 84. 11. & 121. 1, 2. and of God, Iacob desired to bee blessed, Gen. 32. 26. This Angell therefore was God, and not a created Angell.

IV. If they will haue it a created Angell, it may then be thus expounded: The God that feedeth me, & the same God which by his Angell, as his instrument, deliuereth or redeemeth mee, &c. So as his inuocation is still to God, though hee mentioneth the instrument, by which God vsed to deliuer him. For hee speakes here of redemption from euils, and not of that which was wrought by Christ in the flesh, except so farre forth, as temporall deliuerances were types of this spirituall.

Tobie 5. 16. God which dwelleth in Heauen prosper your iour∣ney, and the Angell of God keepe you company.

Answ. 1. This Booke is Apocryphall, and therefore is not of force to confirme a Doctrine of faith.

Secondly, this power of Tobie is made to God, and not di∣rected to the Angell. Hee prayeth God to prosper his iourney: and for this end, he desireth that Gods Angell might bee sent with them to keepe them company, which we also may and doe pray for in such a case. For the Angels haue charge ouer vs, to keepe and defend vs in our wayes and godly courses.

Osea 12. 4. He had power ouer the Angell, &c. Hee made sup∣plication to him.

Answ. 1. This Angell was the Lord; for it is said, hee found him in Bethel. Now that Angell was God, Gen. 31. 11, 13. and 28. 13. & 35. 9, 10. and euen in Hosea 12. verse 5. hee, the same, is said plainely to be The Lord God of Hosts.

Song of the three Children, verse 36. O yee Angels of the Lord, blesse ye the Lord, &c.

Answ. 1. This is Apocrypha. Here is no praying to Angels:

for as they speake to Angels: so in like manner they say, O yee Sunne and Moone, O yee Starres and light. And so, O yee winds, fire, and heat, Winter, and Summer, &c. And therefore by the like reason all these are to bee prayed vnto: and so should wee be worse then Heathen Idolaters.

II. The words expresse a duty of their blessing and praising of God; which they are to performe to God: and not a word of any thing, that they are requested to doe for vs.

Numb. 22. 34. Balaam said to the Angell, I haue sinned, &c.

Answ. I. This Balaam was a Witch. Is this a good instance? Fit enough for a Romish Balaamite.

II. Here is no Prayer made, but a confession of sinne.

III. This Angell, Balaam said, was the Lord. Compare verse 35. with verse 38. And when the Angell, verse 35. said to Balaam, onely the word that I shall speake vnto thee, that shalt thou speake: the Text in chap. 23. 4, 5. saith, that God met him, and the Lord put a word into his mouth: so verse 16.

Gen. 19. 18, 19, 20. Oh, not so my Lord.

Answ. Lot here prayed not to a created Angell, it is cleare. For first, the Angell which spake to Lot thus, I haue accepted of thee, I will not destroy this Citie, speakes as hauing authoritie in himselfe. Secondly, hee is called the Lord, verse 24. The Lord rained from the Lord.

For praying to Saints.

Luk. 16. 24. Father Abraham, haue mercy on me, &c.

Answ. I. This is a Parable, and the letter is not to bee vrged beyond the scope of the Parable, which is not to teach vs to pray to Saints.

II. Their owne men say, that vnder the Law, as is before shewed, there was no praying to Saints. And Bellarmine giueth the reason (according to his owne faith) because they were not as yet in heauen.

III. This is an example of a damned man, who flyeth with horrour from the presence of God; who cals not vpon

God. Can this be a patterne for Gods Church to follow?

IV. This Parable speakes of Diues and Abraham, as within eyesight and hearing one of another, though diuided by a gulfe of separation. What is this thē to vs on earth, to petition Saints in heauen, whom we see not, nor cannot certainly tell that they doe heare vs, to giue answer againe, as Abraham doth here to Diues?

V. The example is not of one here on earth praying to one in Heauen, as the proofe ought to be; but of one soule to an∣other, both departed this life.

Iob 5. 1. Call now if there bee any that will answer thee, and to which of the Saints wilt thou turne?

Answ. I. Eliphas exhorts not Iob to pray vnto any Saint, but reproues Iobs not well-demeaning himselfe towards God in his afflictions, by so iustifying himselfe, as if there were no iust cause with God thus to deale with him. And to let him fee how herein hee did amisse, he willeth him to consider the examples of the Saints in affliction, whether they did so behaue them∣selues: and he implyeth that none did so, nor carried themselues as he did.

II. Their expounding it of praying to Saints, hath no ground hence. For first, the interrogation implyeth a negation, that none of the Saints would answer, neither would Iob turne to any of them, to haue answer from them. Secondly, here is no example of inuocation. And if Eliphaz words be vrged as a pre∣cept; what warrant had he to impose it on Iob? or we, so to re∣ceiue it from him? For he was no Prophet, sent of God to teach Iob. And the text telleth vs, that Gods wrath was kindled a∣gainst him, for that he spake not of God the thing which was right, as Iob did, Iob 42. 7. Thirdly, if the words of Eliphaz be vrged, not as a new precept, but as an exhortation to that which was then in practice; why doth Bellarmine and other say, that before Christ no prayers were made to Saints departed? and why doe they alledge places out of the Old Testament, herein fighting against themselues?

Gen. 48. 16. Let my name be named on them.

Answ. Iacob here willeth not to bee prayed vnto after

death; for none of his posteritie euer so did: but hee adopteth Iosephs children, as his owne, and so to be called: that is, that Ephraim and Manasses should be called the sonnes of Iacob, or children of Israel. The like phrase is so to bee taken, Esa. 4. 1. Rom. 15. 30. Heb. 13. 18, 19. Iob 42. 8. Gen. 20. and other pla∣ces, where one is to pray for another.

Answ. I. These places are spoken of one praying for another in this life, and not of any praying to Saints departed. From the liuing to the dead, it followeth not. For men liuing do acquaint one another with their estates, and so they haue certaine know∣ledge thereof: but it is not so betweene the liuing and the dead. It is very vncertaine, whether these heare and know what is asked of them.

II. There are for this dutie, pregnant precepts, and liuely examples euery where in Scripture, but none such for the other.

III. The Scripture doth witnesse the fruitful effect of pray∣ers made here, one for another. As Moses his prayers for the Is∣raelites at the Red Sea, in fighting against Amalek, and at other times: So Isaiah his prayer, for Ierusalem, for ouerthrow of Sen∣nacheribs Host; and so of many others. But the Scripture no where witnesseth any effect at all, of the prayers of the dead, for any thing here on earth.

IV. This praying is mutuall one for another; as we pray others to pray for vs, so others desire our prayers for them. But the departed desire not ours for them, neither need they our prayers.

They alledge other Scriptures to proue, First, that Angels pray for vs. Secondly, that Saints departed know what passeth on the earth. Thirdly, that they doe pray particularly for vs. Fourth∣ly, that wee may beseech God to grant our Petitions in fauour and merit of the Saints.

If all this were true and euidently cleere out of Scripture; yet will it not follow, that wee therefore may pray to them. For prayer is a part of Gods worship, to bee made onely to God: as precepts dobindlys, the patterne of all true & right praying directeth, and holy mens examples doe teach vs: So this answer

might suffice. Yet, that their proofes from Scripture may not deceiue the vnconsiderate; I wil produce the places for all foure, and make answer thereunto.

I. Scriptures obiected, That Angels pray in particular for vs, answered.

Zach. 1. 12. And the Angell of the Lord answered and said, O Lord of Hosts, how long wilt thou not haue mercy on Ierusalem, and on the Cities of Iudah, &c?

Answ. 1. This was a vision in the night to the Prophet, verse 8. and chap. 4. 1. and so an extraordinarie thing; and being so, and also but a representation for the present to instruct the Prophet, a reall and ordinarie act cannot bee concluded from thence.

Secondly, these words are not a Prayer, but a kinde of enqui∣rie, after the Lords purpose, touching the future estate of the Church, that he might enforme the Prophet thereof, as by the present ensuing answer may appeare, in verse 13. and the charge giuen to make the same knowne to the Church, verse 14, 15. for her comfort, in restoring her to glory and peace, verse 16, 17.

Thirdly, grant it a Prayer: it will not proue that Angels pray for vs; because this Angell is not a created Angell, but Iesus Christ, who is often called in the Old Testament, an Angell, as before is shewed. And that this Angell is so to bee taken, is eui∣dent: For first, the Prophet calleth this Angell, his Lord, vers. 9. chap. 4. 4, 5. Secondly, the Text calleth him, the Lord, and maketh this Angell and the Lord, all one, verse 19, 20, 21. Thirdly, to this Angell the other gaue an account, verse 11. Fourthly, before this Angell stood Iosua the High Priest, chap. 3. 1, 3. and he is called the Lord, verse 2. The Lord said vnto Sa∣tan, The Lord rebuke thee, Satan.

Tobie 12. 12. I did bring the remembrance of your prayers be∣fore the holy One.

Answ. 1. He that is here brought in for an Angell of God, in chap. 5. 12. told no better then a lye: for he said he was Aza∣rias

the sonne of Ananias, a mortall mans sonne: He could not then be an Angell; or if an Angell, a lying one. And as hee made a lye therein, so might he doe in this, chap. 12. 12, 15.

Secondly, this place doth not proue that Angels pray for vs. For he saith not, that he prayed for them; but if the lyer may be beleeued, he brought their prayers vnto Gods remembrance, and presented them, vers. 15. as one taking a Petition of another man to present it to a King; he is the presenter of it, but not the Petitioner.

Thirdly, this Booke is Apocrypha, and suspected of idle fa∣bles, such as learned Papists doe meanely esteeme of.

Reu. 8. 4. And the smoake of the Incense, which came with the prayers of the Saints, ascended from the hand of the Angell before God.

Answ. 1. Here is no created Angell, but Iesus Christ; which is cleere by these reasons.

First, from the allusion to the Priests office seruing at the Al∣tar; who was a type, not of a created Angell, but of Christ, Heb. 9. 11. Then, from the place, where this Angell stands; which was at the Altar, to offer vpon the golden Altar, which was before the Throne: but the Angels are in the out cir∣cuit of the Church, chap. 5. 11. as her guard to keepe her, Psal. 34. 7.

Secondly, it is not said that hee offered vp the Saints prayers, but he offered vp Incense with their prayers. It accompanied the Saints prayers, verse 4. and the smoake of the Incense ascended vp with the prayers of the Saints. Christs Spirit goeth with the prayers of the Saints, like Incense, and the vehemencie thereof (teaching vs to pray with groanes that cannot bee expressed, Rom. 8.) is like smoke ascending vp before God; or the Incense is Christs own intercession, & the smoake the efficacie thereof accompanying the Saints prayers vnto God: for when wee pray, he then prayeth for vs.

Thirdly, most of the Papists which doe write vpon this Text, doe hold this Angell to be Christ. Peter Bullenger, Thom. Aquin. Rich. de Sancto victore, Haymo, Dion. Carthus. Viegas, and many other. This is nothing then for Angels praying for vs.

Dan. 8. 15. When I Daniel had seene the vision, &c. and chap. 9. 20, 21. while I was speaking in Prayer, &c.

Answ. 1. The former Text speakes nothing at all, of any An∣gels praying: but of the Angels instructing Daniel at Gods commandement, chap. 8. 16, 17. This was also a vision in a deepe sleepe, verse 18. From whence Doctrines of Faith are not to be concluded, but soundly to be taught from the literall sense of other holy Scriptures.

II. The latter Text sheweth, that Daniel praying to God, chap. 9. 20. the Angell of the Lord was sent to him, verse 21. but no mention of any prayer made by the Angell for him.

Whether Angels pray for vs, the Scripture teacheth not. If wee yeeld that they doe, it followes not that we should pray to* 1.1 them. The Angels are sent out by God for vs, they are often with vs, they are helpers, and by comming and going at Gods bidding, they doe know our affaires here. But should wee there∣fore pray to them? it is a part of Gods worship: and Angels themselues, as before is proued, forbid to be worshipped.

II. Scriptures obiected to proue that Saints departed know, what is here done on earth, answered.

Luk. 16. 29. They haue Moses and the Prophets, let them heare them.

Answ. 1. It is a Parable, and a thing supposed onely, not a literall History. For after the very letter, some things in this Parable cannot be true; and therefore they cannot hence con∣clude a Doctrine, as out of a Historie. If this place will serue for Saints knowledge, from Abraham; how can the Papists looke on this Text, hindring the people from the Scripture? When first Abraham exhorts to the hearing of Moses and the Prophets. Secondly, denyeth the sending of the dead to in∣struct, as Papists haue beene instructed for their feigned Purga∣torie. Thirdly, he affirmeth that they which will not heare the Scriptures written by Moses and the Prophets, will not be∣leeue such as rise from the dead. Thus he confirmeth the autho∣ritie of the Scriptures, against wandring visions & apparitions.

Secondly, the Papists say, that before Christs Ascension, A∣braham and the rest of the Patriarks were in the place called Limbus patrum. How could Abraham know what was done in Earth, when he was in the prison? Perhaps by enquirie made of other Soules, which came thither, how the Church did, and what other meanes of instruction she had, then when hee liued on the earth?

Thirdly, if but so: what is this to proue that Saints then, and so now, doe know euery mans estate particularly, and what passeth here vpon earth?

Ioh. 5. 45. There is one that accuseth you, euen Moses.

Answ. 1. By Moses is not meant his person, but his writings a∣mong them, as the verses 46. and 47. doe declare.

Secondly, it is absurd to make the Saints in Heauen accu∣sers. Papists will haue them Intercessors, whose propertie is not to accuse in any sort, but to pray for them, which pray to them.

Thirdly, Christ saith, they trust in Moses. Will a Saint in hea∣uen bee so displeased with them, and so faile them that trust in him, that hee will goe and accuse them vnto God? Such then become miserable Patrons. Doth their Legend afford any such examples?

Fourthly, Christs saying that they trusted in Moses, must not be vnderstood of his person: but of his writings. For the Iewes did not beleeue in man. A curse, as is before deliuered, they knew to be pronounced against them, which trusted in man.

Reu. 12. 10. The accuser of the brethren is cast downe, which accused them before God day and night.

Answ. In the former, they make Moses an accuser of some; and so in that respect, a companion with the diuell heere. Is not this a wise Gagger? But how can they proue hence, that Saints in Heauen know what is done here? Because the diuell knowes what euils are here done. A goodly reason. But doe not wee know, that the Diuell is here on earth; that hee com∣passeth the earth to and fro? Hee stirres vp Dauid to number the people; hee is author of much mischiefe: hee must then know many things. And will it hence follow therefore,

that soules which remaine continually in heauen, must know what is here done in earth?

2. King. 6. 12. Elisha telleth, what words the King of Syria spake, being farre from him. So 2. King. 5. 26. Elisha saw what passed between Naaman and Gehezi, 1. Cor. 12. Saint Paul was rapt vp into the third Heauen, Act. 7. Steuen in earth, saw Christ in heauen.

Answ. 1. These places tell vs, that these things were so. Let them bring vs Scriptures which will affirme as much of the soules in heauen, heere seeing things in earth, and we will be∣leeue. But this these places proue not.

Secondly, these were extraordinarie reuelations, and giue no warrant of ordinarie knowledge. In such things, from extra∣ordinarie acts to ordinarie, is no sound arguing. For the Pro∣phets did not know all things. Elisha knew not the cause of the Shunamites comming, 2. King. 4. 27. nor Samuel, when he went to lesse his house, whom God would chuse, 1. Sam. 16. 6.

Thirdly, all these are instances of knowledge, in men on earth, of things done on earth; or of things which being on earth, they saw in heauen: but not a word, what those in hea∣uen saw here vpon earth; which is the onely point in que∣stion.

The Gagger quoteth moe places, As Mat. 19. 28. But this is nothing to purpose. And the place is meant of all, appea∣ring before Christ, at the last day, whom the Apostles shall then see.

Reu. 2. 26. 1. Here is a promise, accomplished in Christ,* 1.2 Psal. 2. in whom the Saints haue this power. See Augustine, Beda, and many other, cited by Fulke on this place, for this sense.

Secondly, this is to bee vnderstood of the Saints power ouer those out of the Church. For here they are to bee ruled with a rodde of iron, and to be broken in pieces. But the Saints depar∣ted Papists make Protectors of others, and not breakers of them to shiuers.

Act. 5. 3. This was an extraordinarie manifestation of A∣nanias his hypocrisie to Peter. If they can proue, that God doth

reueale mens actions here, to Saints in Heauen, wee yeeld.

1. Sam. 28. 14. Here is the Diuell appearing in Samuelt likenesse: what hence this Gagger will gather for Saints know∣ledge in heauen, I know not.

III. Scriptures obiected, that Saints departed doe pray for vs particularly, answered.

Reu. 5. 8. The 24. Elders fell downe before the Lambe, hauing euery one of them Harps, and golden Ʋials, full of odours, which are the prayers of the Saints.

Answ. 1. This was in a vision and traunce, and the words allegoricall, and therefore cannot bee the ground of Doctrine of faith.

Secondly, here is not meant the Saints departed; but these foure and twenty are the type of the whole Church here on earth, verse 10.

Thirdly, these prayers of the Saints (which Saints are on earth, chap. 8. 3.) may be the prayers of the foure and twenty Elders themselues: yet called the prayers of the Saints, as if they were the prayers of others.

First, for that these represent the whole Church, verse 9. which consists of Saints.

Secondly, because a Church or Congregation of people ga∣thered together, pray not onely for themselues, but for all the Saints of God; and so their hearts here being as Vials, full of the grace of Prayer, as it were odours, are esteemed the prayers of all Saints.

Fourthly, Tho. Aquinas, Rich. de Sco. Ʋictore, Haymo, Beda, and other, doe expound this place of the Church militant.

2. Mach. 15. 14. Then Onias answered, &c. Where he telleth how Ieremy prayed for the people.

Answ. 1. This is an Apocryphal Booke.

Secondly, this speech of Onias touching Ieremies praying, was but Iudas his dreame. For it is said in verse 11. that he told the souldiers al this, as his dreame, to encourage them to fight. It is weake architecture to build vpon a dreame, doctrines of faith.

Thirdly, neither did Iudas much regard the helpe of Ieremies prayer. For in the same Chapter, hee himselfe did pray, verse 21, 22, 23. but intreated not Ieremy to pray for him, but made his suite onely to God.

Ier. 15. 1. Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, &c.

Answ. 1. These words are spoken onely by way of supposi∣tion, as if God had said, If Moses and Samuel were now before mee, as they were, when they liued on earth, praying for these people, I should not regard them. Is it good reasoning from a suppositiue speech, to a reall act indeed?

Secondly, they themselues say, that all the Fathers that were before Christ, were in Limbus Patrum, and so could not know our affaires in particular to pray for vs.

Baruch 3. 4. Heare now the prayers of the dead Israelites.

Answ. 1. This booke is Apocryphal.

Secondly, were not these in the place, called Limbus Patrum? How could they then see all things in the face of God, from whose presence they were kept?

Thirdly, heere is mention of the prayers of dead Israe∣lites: but not for whom they prayed. It is not said, they prayed for others on earth. They might pray for themselues in Limbo.

Fourthly, by dead Israelites, are not here to bee vnderstood such as were departed this life, but such as were accounted as dead, as going downe to the graue; for so Baruch speakes to Israel, verse 9, 11. And hee speakes of such dead Israelites and their children, which had sinned before God, and had not hearkened to him, verse 4. expressing their deserts worthy death. Doe men aliue, requesting God to heare for them the prayers of the dead, vse to moue God with telling of the Saints sinnes, and their rebellion against him? Is this a Romish prayer, Heare, Lord, the prayers of the dead for mee, for they haue sin∣ned against thee? Will any be so madde, to alledge such a rea∣son? Therefore Baruch makes confession of the liuing Israe∣lites, being then through distresse as dead men; and beggeth pardon for them, as followeth in verse 5.

Fiftly, their Doway Annotation on this place is this; Men in sinnes and miseries are as if they were dead, verse 11. yet by

Gods mercy may receiue new grace of spirituall life. They then take these for men aliue, and not dead, as this foolish Gagger doth.

Reu. 2. 26, 27. This is answered before, and nothing concer∣neth the prayers of the Saints departed.

Luk 16. Diues in hell prayed for his brethren on earth: much more then will the Saints in heauen.

Answ. 1. This is but a supposed speech, a parable, and therefore nothing thence to be gathered, but as is intended in the scope of the Parable.

Secondly, if there bee such all-knowing vision, and all∣helping charitie in Heauen, it is maruell that in all the Scrip∣ture, it should no where as clearely be mentioned, as this chari∣tie of one damned in hell.

Reuel. 6. 9, 10. And I saw vnder the Altar the soules, &c. and they cryed with a lowd voice, How long, Lord, holy, and true! doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud, on them that dwell on the earth?

Answ. 1. This was seene by Iohn in a vision; and is not to bee interpreted according to the Letter, to establish a doctrine of faith.

Secondly, though it be taken after the letter; yet here is no proofe that Saints pray for any in particular, but for the Church militant in generall.

Thirdly, their Prayer is not for other in the Church; they intercede not for other, but the request they make, concerneth themselues.

Fourthly, their cry is literally for iustice and reuenge vpon their enemies, persecutors, and sheaders of their bloud. Doth mindfulnesse of iniuries remaine in Saints departed? They then are lesse charitable then Saints on earth. Steuen at his death prayed for his enemies. This place proueth not, that Saints de∣parted pray particularly here for vs on earth; but rather they pray against the enemies of the Church.

2. Pet. 1. 15. I will endeuour after my decease to haue remem∣brance of these things.

Answ. This is not meant by his intercession to God after

death, but of his then present and diligent writing to them while he was aliue, whereby they might bee made to remem∣ber after his decease, what hee had taught them by word of mouth or writing, while he liued.

1. King. 2. 13, 19. Adoniah had a suite to Solomon, and used the helpe of Bathsheba to him; Absalom vsed Ioabs intercession, for him to Dauid, 2. Sam. 14. So should we goe vnto God by Saints, intercessors for vs.

Answ. 1. Similitudes are for illustration, but doe not proue any thing, especially thus detorted absurdly.

Secondly, the case is not alike, as betweene man and man, so betweene God and vs, in this case. Hee is God, and so euery where, and not as man, circumscribed in a place. To man wee cannot speake when and where we would: but to God wee may, whose eyes and thoughts are not like to mans, Esai. 55. Man, through pride, will not; or through carelesnesse, re∣gards not; or through ignorance, knowes not; or through bu∣sinesse, is hindered, so as hee cannot helpe such as come for helpe: or his attendants about him, may keepe Petitioners from him, so as they cannot speake to him. But there are no such lets in God. The Simile therefore is not fit.

Thirdly, this is voluntarie humilitie, which caused the wor∣ship of Angels by certaine Heretikes, which the Apostle con∣demneth, Col. 2. 18.

Fourthly, wee need no Saints to goe to God for vs: for wee haue appointed by God himselfe, a Mediatour of intercession betweene God and vs, his Sonne Iesus Christ, by whom boldly with confidence, we may goe to God, Ephes. 3. 12. Heb. 4. 16. & 10. 22. & 7. 25.

Fiftly, as for any to goe betweene Christ and vs, wee neede it not: For he is the Head, and all wee the members of his bo∣die, as well those in earth, as those in heauen; wee here on earth, being as deare to him, as those in heauen. Hee sitteth in heauen to request for vs, and is a most mercifull High Priest, touched with our infirmities, Heb. 4. 15. Therefore hee tooke our nature vpon him, Heb. 2. 16. to be a faithfull and mercifull High Priest, verse 17. Steuen made no meanes to him, but

prayed immediately to him, Act. 7. 59, 60. and so did Iohn, Reuelation 22. 20, 21. Christ willeth vs himselfe to come vnto him, Math. 11. 28. And we reade not that any of the Apostles, or holy men, praying, mentioned in Scripture, did euer goe to Saint or Angell to make request for them. Also, to answer the Simile: Is there any of vs, hauing a great mans Command, in all our needs to come to himselfe, giuing his faithfull word and promise to heare our suites & requests very readily at any time, and none appointed by him to heare suiters, when they come, but onely himselfe, attending mercifully in his owne person for vs, in open place without let of any, that would goe first to any of his seruants, and not forthwith rather to himselfe with all gladnesse? I appeale to mens owne hearts in this.

Lastly, this putting of Saints betweene Christ and vs, is to make an Intercessor, and to hold Saints departed (if wee were sure they could heare vs, which yet is very vncertaine) to bee more louing, more tenderly affected toward vs, then Iesus Christ himselfe, who hath with his owne bloud bought both them and vs.

Scriptures obiected, that wee may pray to God, to haue our Petitions granted in fauour and merit of Saints departed.

Exod. 32. 13. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel thy ser∣uants, to whom thou swarest, &c.

Answ. 1. Here is no merit of Saints vrged.

Secondly, their persons are mentioned by Moses, not for their owne worthinesse, but for the Couenant which by oath God confirmed to them; which Couenant Moses vrgeth, & not their deserts. For Moses speakes of Gods act to them, but not a syllable of any thing, that they either did, or spake; note it well.

2. Chron. 6. 16. Keepe with thy seruant Dauid my Father, that which thou hast promised.

Answ. 1. Here is no word, no worke of Dauid remembred, and therefore no merit of his vrged.

Secondly, that which Salomon alledgeth in his prayer, it Gods promise made vnto Dauid. So in 2. Chro. 1. 9. in 1. Chro. 29. 18. Dauid prayeth to God in that title which hee would be named by, and by which he named himselfe, Exo. 3. 6. So it is a calling vpon God by his name, and not praying to him through the merits of Saints departed.

Exod. 20. 5. And shewing mercy vnto thousands of them that loue me, and keepe my commandement.

Answ. This is no whit for Saints prayer, but altogether against merit. For the Text saith, that to those which loue him and keepe his commandements, God will shew mercy. If they did merit, what need they or mercy? The Gagger saith, that God will here reward the merits of good men; when hee onely saith he will shew mercy, and mentioneth no merit.

Psal. 132. 1. Lord, remember Dauid, &c.

Answ. 1. This Psalme penned by Dauid, is a Prayer made by himselfe for himselfe, and so nothing to the point of controuer∣sie. Secondly, if penned by some other, after Dauids time; here, by Dauid, is meant Gods promise made vnto Dauid, of which the Psalmist maketh mention in verse 11, 12, 17, 18.

Esai. 63. 17. Returne for: thy seruants sake.

Answ. That is, for thy Couenants sake, made vnto thy seruants. So Psal. 32. 10. For thy seruant Dauids sake: that is, for the Couenant and promise sake, made vnto Dauid, as the Verses 11, 12. following, shew; and not for the merit and intercession of Dauid. Also Dauid is here named, because hee was an excellent type of Christ, who therefore is called by the Name of Dauid, Ier. 23. 5. and 30. 9. Ezech. 37. 24. Osea 3. 4. So that if the words be taken for Dauid; then there is vnder∣stood Gods promises, the person put for the Couenant made to him: but taken for him that Dauid typed out; then is it for Christ his sake, conceiued in the name Dauid. And so the Text proues not prayer made to God, to be granted for the merits of Saints.

Notes

• * 1.1

  See D. White his last booke, in answer to Luk. 15. 10. pag. 315, 316. to 1. Cor. 4. 9. pag. 317.
• * 1.2

  See D. White his last booke, p 309. 310, 311, 312. in answer to this; as also to Reu. 3. 12. 1. Cor. 13. 9. & 5. 10. not cited by the Gagger.