Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ...

XII. Proposition. That the Church cannot erre?

THe Church here taken for the visible Church, consisting of a mixt company, wee say, may erre. This their opinion taught and beleeued of the people, is the mother and nurse of all the mischiefes in that Romish Synagogue, which arrogateth the name and priuiledge of Gods Church, and that Church on∣ly is intended by this peruerse Teacher. For this is the Mystery of iniquitie, and secret Cabala of the Roman Rabbins: when they giue the glorious title of inerrabilitie to the Catholike or generall Church, they all the while meane none other then their Mistresse, the Lady of the seuen hilled city, and other Churches, as subiugated to her, and made her hand-maides, or rather slaues. But wee will follow this question in the generall stile and appellation of the Church, as it is here propounded in termes.

Confuted by their owne Bible.

First, we find in it the Churches defection foretold by Moses, Deut. 31. 16. This people (meaning Israel the Church of God then) will fornicate after strange gods, forsake me, &c. Foretold by the Prophet Azariah, 2. Chron. 15. 2. Many dayes shall passe in Israel without the true God, without Priest, a Teacher, and without the Law. Foretold by Saint Paul, 2. Thes. 2. 2, 12. where he speakes of a reuolt, and such a reuolt, as thereby the Man of sinne gets vp to seate himselfe in the Temple of God, drawing to him such as haue not a loue of the truth. Foretold by Saint Peter, 2. Pet. 2. 1. In you, lying Masters, which shall bring in sects of perdition. By Saint Iohn in his Reuelation, where the Church is foreshewed to proue a bloody Whore, Chap. 17. Now what is foretold, certainely doth, or shall come to passe. Therefore the Church may erre.

Secondly, wee find in their owne Bible, that the Prophets in

old time found the Church guiltie, not onely of morall crimes, but also of errors in doctrine, Esay 48. 4, 5, 8. and in Ezech. 16. 15, 35. where she is set out as a lewd Strumpet. And in Chap. 20. 8. raxed for idolatrie aforetime. The Prophecie of Ieremie condemneth the Church in his time for many abominations committed in Ierusalem, and in Egypt. Our Sauiour found the Church at his comming corrupted with false doctrine, the lea∣uen of the Scribes and Pharises; warning his Disciples to take heed thereof, Mat. 16. 6, 12. How the Churches of Galatia did erre, and were bewitched, Saint Paul telleth vs, Gal. 1. and 3. and 4. And the Churches in Asia, as Pergamus, and Thyatira are taxed, and found fault with, Reuel. 2.

Thirdly, we find in their Bible by the historie thereof, that the Church hath erred euen from the very beginning.

I. In Paradise our first Parents, the first Church that euer God had, and the most perfect for knowledge, holinesse and righteousnesse; yet this Church erred, and fell fearefully; in ad∣ding to Gods Word, in taking from it, and in beleeuing the de∣uill before God. What Church is it then, which may not erre?

II. After their casting out of Paradise, till the Flood, the Church, that is, the sonnes of God, went vnto the daughters of men, by which mixture the whole earth became corrupted, Gen. 6. which error in fact came out of a dogmaticall error in iudgement.

III. From the Flood to Abraham; in which space we reade of open rebellion against God, Gen. 11. and that there was ido∣latrie committed in the Church by Thare and Nachor in Meso∣potamia, from amongst whom Abraham was called out, Iosh. 24. 2, 14.

IV. From Abrahams comming into Canaan, till Israels comming out of Egypt. In this space idolatrie was crept into the Church; into Iacobs Family, Gen. 35. 2. And Israel is taxed for committing idolatry in Egypt, Iosh. 24. 14. and for being obstinate therein, Ezech. 20. 8. and 16. 15, 35. and 23. 8.

V. In Israels going into Canaan, during their aboade in the Wildernesse; they erred in heart alwaies, they knew not the

Lords wayes, but mightily prouoked him, Psal. 94. 9, 10, 11. and they committed horrible idolatry, both Aaron the chiefe Priest, the Heads of the people, besides the rest, Exod. 32. 4, 5, 8, 31. They were a peruerse generation, of which reade Psal. 77. 8. 10, 16, 17, 18, 19, 36, 40, 41, 56, 57. the whole Psalme sheweth, that they greatly erred.

VI. In Canaan in the dayes of the Iudges, how often fell they into horrible idolatry, seruing other gods, and doing what liked themselues, Iudg. 2. 10, 11, 12, 13. and 5. 8. and 6. 25, 26. and 8. 33. and 9. 4. 27. and 10. 6. and 21. 25. In Ely his time was a miserable state of the Church and Religion, 1. Sam. 2. In Sauls time men did not seeke to the Arke of God, 1. Chron. 13. 3.

VII. From Salomons reigne, to the captiuitie, were great abominations. Salomon set vp, or fauoured in others the setting vp of idolatrie, the remainders whereof continued vnto Iosiah his dayes. The ten Tribes fell to idolatrie, and neuer returned. Iudah often committed great wickednesse, as in the dayes of Rehoboam, Iehoram, Amaziah, Ioas, Ahaz, Manasses, Amon, and other Kings, which succeeded godly Iosias; and the people are often complained of to haue done corruptly, and to haue sin∣ned against God, euen in good Kings daies, 2. Chron. 17. 2. and 33. 17. and 36. 14. for which God heauily plagued them, 2. Chr. 28. 6. For more euidence of the euils in this space, reade the Prophets, Esay 48. 45. and 56. 10, 11. Ier. 2. 27, 28. and 3. 1, 2. and 5. 31. and 6. 14. Ezech. 69, 11, 12, 15. Hosea 2. 2.

VIII. From thence to Christ: The Priests, as Malachi wit∣nesseth, had departed out of the way, and made voide the Coue∣nant, Mal. 2. 8. had despised and polluted his name, Mal. 1. 6, 12. they did not lay to heart his commandements, Mal. 2. 2. Iudah is accused to haue transgressed, and that abominations were done in Israel, and in Ierusalem, that they had contaminated the sanctification of the Lord, and had the daughter of a strange god, Mal. 2. 11. In the second of Machabees we may reade of horrible corruptions in the high Priests. Iason got the office by money brought his Country-men to the Heathen rites; the Priests were not occupied about the offices of the Altar, but the

Temple and Sacrifices were neglected, 2. Machab. 4. 7, 11, 14. And when our Sauiour was come, he found many sects, false Teachers corrupting the truth, Matth. 6. and 16. 6, 12. and 23. 16, 22. & was by the outward pretending domineering Church then in Councell condemned, and put to death. To conclude of the chiefe Rulers in this Church, the saying of Steuen, that they were stiffe-necked, and vncircumcised in heart and eares, alwaies resisting the holy Ghost, Act. 7. Who can reade these things, and thinke yet, that the Church cannot erre; if withall they would consider, how this Church of Israel had the most excel∣lent meanes for direction and confirmation?

I. They had the written Word, and ordinary Teachers, the Priests and Leuites daily instructing them, Deut. 33. 10. Acts 15. 21.

II. They had extraordinary teaching; 1. By God himselfe from Heauen, Exod. 20. By Vrim and Thummim, by Vision and Dreames. 2. By Prophets, Moses, Samuel, Eliah, Elisha, and very many moe. 3. By Kings endued with a Propheticall Spirit, as Dauid and Salomon. 4. At length, by Iesus Christ him∣selfe personally. 5. By the twelue Apostles, Mat. 10. 6. By the 70. disciples, Luk. 10. 1. Neuer such, nor so many in any Church, since God had a Church.

III. They had Miracles and wonders in bringing them out of Egypt, in the fearefull giuing of the Law, in carrying them thorow the Woldernesse, in planting them in Canaan, and in strange Miracles wrought in Eliah and Elisha's time, and in some of the Kings of Iudah. Christ confirmed his doctrine, and so did the Apostles and Disciples their teaching by Miracles, Luk. 10. 17. No Church vnder the Heauen had euer the like.

IV. They had great mercies and vnheard of deliuerances from their Enemies: from Pharaoh and his Host drowned in the Red Sea: from the Amalekites, discomfited by Moses pray∣er: from the innumerable multitude of Enemies, the Kings of Canaan, of Midian, Philistims, Syrians, Assyrians: from the Host of Sennacherib nine score thousand slaine by an Angell in one night, Kings thirtie two, besides Benhadad, with an infinite Hoste defeated, by onely 7000. and odde: Ionathan and his Ar∣mour-bearer

did terrifie an whole Campe: Gideon and three hundred men made an innumerable multitude to she away, and with a few other of Ephraim, did slay of them in one day one hundred and twenty thousand: Asa vanquished the Army of the Ethiopians, ten hundred thousand, besides three hundred Cha∣rets. Iehosaphat gathered the spoile of his enemies, three Kings comming with their Hosts against him, whom God set one a∣gainst another, to destroy vtterly one another for his safetie and enriching. What shall I speake of Hostes flying for feare with∣out any pursuing of them? For other blessings and mercies they are not to be numbred.

V. They had strange and most terrible punishments vpon them, to keep them in the feare of God, to make them to know him, and to walke in his waies: fire from Heauen deuouring vp some, the earth swallowing vp quicke other-some, the giuing of them often into the hands of Heathen Kings to oppresse them, that they might turne from Idolatry; yea, at length sent them all into captiuitie for 70. yeeres.

Thus we see, for Teachers, for Wonders and Miracles, for Mercies and Iudgements, none euer to be compared to them. Papists may fame Legends to parallel these; but these are truths, hauing witnesse from Gods Word it selfe. And yet this Church erred, and as Esay saith, chap. 48 4, 8. was stubborne, had a neck as an Iron sinew, and her forehead as brasse, and was a trans∣gressour from the wombe.

If the Papists make little account of these reasons, as nothing to keepe a Church from erring; yet is it much more then their Romish Church can say for her selfe. Let them say what they can for the Churches not erring, and we will see whether this Church of Israel cannot say the same also.

Will they pleade: 1. A Co∣uenant?	Israel had so, Deut. 29. 10, 15.
2 Or, a Couenant written in the heart?	So was it then, Ier. 31. 33. Esay 5. 7.
3. Or, a Couenant with their Priests?	So had the Priests then, Ier. 33. 20.

4. Or, that the Priests lips should preserue knowledge, and the people learne of them, and they teach the people?	So the verie same might Is∣rael alledge, Mal. 2 7. Deut. 33. 10. Neh. 8. 7, 8, 9. Leui. 10. 11. Ezech. 44 23. yea, and did boast of, Ier. 18. 18.
5. Or, succession of persons from time to time, in the same Chaire, or Seate?	This could she plead to the full, from Aaron the first ap∣pointed immediatly by God himselfe with his office, place, seruice, ornaments, and main∣tenance, his next successor to be also named by God him∣selfe, Num. 20. 28.
6. Or, the Continuance of this Couenant to vphold suc∣cession?	This had it in plaine words; and therefore was for euer the Priest-hood appointed to him and his seed, Num. 25. 12, 13.
7. Or, the presence of God with them?	So could and did Israel, M••ch, 3. 11.
8. Or, the name of the Church?	So they, Ier. 7. 4.
9. Or, that it is called ho∣ly, the Ground and Pillar of truth?	So was Ierusalem the holy Citie, Esay 48. 2. the Citie of truth, the sanctified Mount, Zach. 8. 3.
10. Or, that the Word did go out from them to conuert other Nations?	So could they, as they were taught by Esay, Chap. 2. 3. & of making Proselytes could the Pharises boast, Mat. 23.
11. Or, the Spirit to be in them to keepe their Teachers from erring?	Who could thus speake, as Israel might? Nehe. 9. 20. E∣say, 6. 3, 11. Zach. 7. 12. as Peter witnesseth, 2. Pet. 1. 21.
12. Or, that they are called the Church, and are come from the Apostles, & Church at Ierusalem?	So they by Stephen, Act 7. 38. also saith Isaiah, Esay 48. 1. Heare ye, ô House of Iacob, which art called by the

	name of Israel, and are come out of the waters of Iudah. So could the Scribes and Pharises boast of their Originall, Ioh. 8. 33.
13. Or, that they are Ca∣tholicks, and the world spred ouer with them?	And could not the Iewish Church say so? Of their Reli∣gion were some of euerie Nation vnder heauen, Act. 2. 5, 9, 10, 11. they were disper∣sed in all the Persian Monar∣chy, Este•• 3. 8. Chap. 1. there were many Proselytes made: such was the Eunuch of Ethi∣opia; and to make them, they trauailed Sea and Land, Mat. 23.
14. Or, that they haue euer had the holy Scriptures in their custodie?	So to the Iewes were com∣mitted the Oracles of God, Rom. 3. 2.
15. Or, y• the Church now hath many excellent promises?	What? more then Israel had? to be their God, they to him a peculiar treasure aboue all people, a kingdome of Priests, an holy Nation, Exod. 19. 5, 6. to come to them and blesse them, Chap. 20. 24. to be high aboue all Nations to praise, name, and honour; to be a holy peo∣ple, Deut. 26. 19. to circumcise their heart, and the heart of their seed; to loue him with all their heart and soule, Deut. 30. 6. to be with them, not to leaue them, nor forsake them, Deut. 31. 8. yea, he promised, that no new god should be among* 1.1 them, nor they to adore a strange god, Psal. 80. 10. Mount Sion was not to be remoued, but to abide for euer; and peace to be on Israel, Psal. 105. 1. whom he would redeeme from all* 1.2 iniquities, Psal. 129. 8. He chose Sion, and that to be his rest for 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, Psal. 13••. 13, 14. their way was to be the way of Holinesse, and so direct that fooles should not erre by it, Esay 35. 8. and such as erred in the Spirit, should know vn∣derstanding,

& the mutterer should learne the Law, Esa. 29▪ 24. and they should haue Pastors according to the Lords owne heart, which should feed them with knowledge and doctrine, Ier. 3. 15. To conclude, Israel had a promise to be saued with eternall saluation, they should not be confounded and ashamed for euer and euer, Esay 45. 17. yea, that we may know, that the promises were not to the people then liuing onely, the Lord saith, I will powre out my Spirit vpon their seede, and my bles∣sing vpon thy stocke, Esay 44. 3. and touching the Temple, thus saith God to Salomon, I haue sanctified this House, to put my Name there for euer, and mine eyes, and my heart shall be there* 1.3 alwayes, 3. Kin. 9. 3.

Yet for all these so gracious promises, she erred, she hath fallen away, and remaineth in her sinnes.

We haue heard out of their owne Bible; First, how the Churches defection hath beene foretold.

Secondly, how she also hath beene found guiltie.

Thirdly, the same proued by Historie of the Bible, from the beginning in Adam and Eue, till Christ, though the Church of Israel had admirable meanes to vphold it: to which I do adde this last.

From Christs comming, till Iohns being in Pathmos. In this space we may finde errours in the Church. The Apostles themselues before Christs Ascension, were in an error touching Christ his Kingdome, dreaming of a temporall kingdome, Act. 1. 6. Luk. 24. 21. of restoring the kingdome to Israel, and re∣deeming them: so as they did striue among themselues, which of them should be greatest, Luk 22. 24. and hereupon it was, that the mother of Zebedees children desired of him for her sonnes, that one might sit in his Kingdome, on the right hand, and the other on the left, Mat. 20. 20, 21. Their knowledge was very imperfect; for it is said often, that they vnderstood not many things, Mat 15. 16. Luk. 9. 45. and 10. 34. Ioh. 12. 16. and 29. yea, so slow of heart, and dull of hearing they were, that Christ telleth them, that he had many things to say to them, but that then they were not able to beare thē, Ioh. 16. 12. their faith was verie weake, as appeareth by his calling of them,

Ye of little faith, Mat. 8. 26 and 16. 8. Slow of heart to beleeue what the Prophets had spoken, Luk. 24. 25. Also by their for∣saking him, and flying from him when he was taken, Mat. 26 56.

After Christs Ascension, and the comming downe of the ho∣ly Ghost, they were ignorant for a time in this, that they did not thinke it was lawfull to go to the Gentiles; as we may see in Peter, Act. 10 15. 20. and the other Iewes, vers. 45. com∣pared with Cap. 11. 2, 3, 18, 19. The Churches of Galatia er∣red so, as S. Paul said, that he feared lest hee had laboured in vaine, Gal. 4. 11. I neede not here speake of errors, and He∣resies creeping in, troubling the Church, and deceiuing many, as in Act. 15. 2. 1. Tim 1. 3 6, 7, 19. 20. 2. Tim 2. 18, 19. 1. Cor. 15. 12. Ephesus fell from her first loue, Reu. 2. 4 Perga∣mus had in her such as vpheld the doctrine of Balaam, and of the Nicolaitans, Reu. 2 14. Thyatira tolerated Iezabel to reach and seduce Christs seruants, Reu. 2. 20. Sardis was an hypo∣criticall Church, and in a dying condition, and Laodicea luke∣warme, rich in conceit, but miserable; naked, blinde, and poore in condition, Reu. 3. 2, 16 17. S. Paul telleth Timothy, that all that were in Asia were departed from him, 2. Tim. 1. 15. Thus was the Churches state euen in the Apostles dayes. By which we may see the Church subiect to erre: and to hold the contrary, that she cannot erre, Antiquitie is against.

Contraried by Antiquitie.

Origen, Hom. 6. in Ezek. The Citie of God, as long as she erreth not, or doth not sinne, hath God to her Father: but when she beginneth to erre, her father is an Amorite, and her mo∣ther an Hittite: he then thought she might erre.

Ierome complaineth in Dialog. aduers. Lucifer. That the whole world groaned and wondered to see it selfe Arian. Did not he thinke then that the Church might erre?

Aug. lib. 2. cap 18. Retract. speaking of the Church on earth, saith, that by reason of ignorance and infirmities of her mem∣bers, the whole Church hath cause to say euery day, Forgiue vs our trespasses.

Basil, epist. 70. telleth vs, that Satan had in his time begun to sow the seedes of Apostasie in those places, where the Gospell of the Kingdome first arose vp, striuing to spread it into the whole World. He speakes of Apostasie, which is more then erring.

What meant Hilarie, cont. Auxentium, when he said, The Church is lost, and wee are fallen into the time of Antichrist, whose ministers do transforme themselues into Angels of light, without all feeling, or conscience of Christ?

Vincent. Lvren, aduers. profan. Nou. ca. 4. hath said, that not on∣ly some portion of the Church, but the whole Church it selfe is blotted with some new contagion.

Gainesaid by some of their owne.

Pope Innocent saith in the Canon Law; The Churches Iudge∣ment* 1.4 oftentimes followeth opinion, which many times falleth out both to deceiue vs, and to be deceiued it selfe.

Panormitan thus writeth: A generall Councell representing the whole Church, may erre in excommunicating him, that should not bee excommunicate. If in a matter of this nature, where proofes may bee brought before sentence pronounced, how much more in points of a higher nature, without the Scrip∣ture for the guide? A generall Councell is called the whole Church representadue. If therfore this erre, thē may the Church erre; for how can the Churches voyce else be heard, except in* 1.5 the Scriptures? But by their owne confession, generall Coun∣cels haue erred; for the first Councell at Nice of 318. Bishops, made the Bishop of Romes gouernment no more, then that of Alexandria. That at Ephesus of 200. Bishops, with the Coun∣cell at Chalcedon of 630. Bishops, gaue to the See of Constanti∣nople equall priuiledge with Rome. But in these things, say the Papists, the Councels erred; therefore in some things generall Councels may erre, euen in that point which to the Papists is most fundamentall, being the very soule and essence of Popery in that part which consisteth in vsurpation, and tyrannous do∣minion ouer all other Churches.

The Scriptures obiected, answered.

Esay 59. 21. This is my Couenant with them: My Spirit that is vpon thee, and my words, which I haue put into thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seedes seede, saith the Lord, from henceforth, and for euer.

Answ. 1. I answere, that the Prophet speakes here of Gods Couenant with them, that is, with those that turne from trans∣gression in Iacob, and so of the faithfull and elect, and not of the Church visible, of which we speake.

II. Here is no promise, that the Church shall not erre; but that he will bestow on them, which exercise the Ministery, his Spirit, and his Word continually for the Churches good.

III. If he will needs hence conclude, that the Church can∣not erre: 1. He must proue, that the Teachers doe euer teach the truth by Gods Spirit, and by Gods Word, which are to go together, Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13. Mat. 18. 19, 20. 2. That the hearers, the members of the Church, doe euer receiue, beleeue and follow their Teachers thus teaching by the Word and holy Spirit, which two things rest for him to make good ad Graecas Calendas.

IV. This promise made, must needs be vnderstood condi∣tionally of the visible Church, and of an ordinary Ministery: for Esay tells vs afterwords, how they vexed Gods Spirit, chap. 63. 10. We see how the Church of the Israelites, and that at Ierusa∣lem hath been cast off of God, and hath now neither Word nor Spirit of God to direct it. Christ found her Teachers in his time full of errors, as they grieuously erred before, 2. King. 16. 11. 2. Chron. 36. 14, 16. Esay 56. 10. Ier. 5. 1. Mal. 2. 8. And we know by experience in our times, and by faithfull relation aforetimes, that Teachers haue erred; and people haue not euer embraced the truth, when sound Teachers haue deliuered it; let Christs hearers be instance for all, and those in Iury which heard the A∣postles.

V. If this were a good argument, where Gods Spirit and his

Word is, there can be no errour; then would it follow, that no ordinary member of Christ should euer erre; for such a one hath Gods Spirit, 1. Ioh. 2. 20, 27. Rom. 8. 9. 2. Cor. 1. 21. and his Word, Deut. 33. 3. by which they become beleeuers, Ioh. 17. 20. But this, I hope, a Papist will not grant, and yet the argument is the same.

Ioh. 14. 16. I will pray the Father, and he shall giue you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for euer, euen the Spirit of truth.

Answ. 1. This place is primarily to be vnderstood of the A∣postles, to whom the promise of guiding into all truth, was a speciall priuiledge, Mat. 10. 20. Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13.

2. Of the succeeding Teachers, but with no such speciall pri∣uiledge: for first, there are no such promises made to them. Se∣condly, experience teacheth, that they haue wanted this priui∣ledge. Thirdly, the hearers haue libertie to search and trie that which is deliuered, if they doubt, 1. Thes. 5. 21. 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Ioh. 5. 39. Act. 17. 11. Waldensis, one of their owne side, saith* 1.6 of particular Pastors and Bishops, We know that these haue often erred.

3. Neither the abiding of the Spirit for euer where it is, nor the title of Spirit of truth will enforce euer an infallibility in teaching; for it is called the Spirit of sanctification or holinesse, Rom. 1. 4. for that he worketh in vs holinesse, and is euer abiding in the godly, who are the Temple of the holy Ghost; and yet are they not so sanctified, but they often offend in life. So is it the Spirit of truth, because it enlightneth the minds of men with onely that which is truth, and guideth them in the truth, if they follow their guide: but if they doe not, they may, yea, and doe erre from the truth.

Mat. 18. 17. If he neglect to heare the Church, let him be to thee as an Heathen, and a Publican.

Answ. 1. This is meant of an euident case proued by wit∣nesses before the Church in matters of offence, betweene one priuate man and another; wherein the Church may giue right sentence, if she will; yet we see, such as meddle in the Churches censures, doe not euer proceede aright. This place therefore is

not to the matter of doctrine and determination of faith, the point in question; neither doth it proue, that in her censure the Church cannot erre: for saith their owne Panormitan, as before is cited, A generall Councell representing the whole Church, may erre, in excommunicating him that should not be excommunicate. These words speake not of the Churches either not erring or er∣ring, but of other hearing the Church, and how they should car∣ry themselues towards such, as will not in so cleare a case heare the Churches admonition.

3. Its not here commanded, that he should be held as a Hea∣then and Publican, that would not heare the Church in what∣soeuer she saith: for Christ here speakes of the Iewish Church then, as appeareth by the name Heathen and Publican, which were abhorred of the Iewish Church. Now, that Church (wee reade) did excommunicate a blind man (which receiued sight) for his professing of Christ, Ioh. 9. 34. and had agreed to put any man out of the Synagogue, which should confesse Iesus to bee Christ, v 22. and did also forbid to teach in his name, Act. 4. 18.

4. This place is spoken of some Ecclesiasticall Gouernours, (if it be extended to vs) hauing the power of censures in a par∣ticular Church; which the Learned in their Church doe con∣fesse, may erre; and therefore this helpes not to proue, that the Church cannot erre.

Esay 35. 8. And a high way shall be there, and away, and it shall be called. The way of holinesse, the vncleane shall not passe ouer it, but it shall be for those: the way-faring men, though fooles, shall not erre therein.

Answ. I. This verse is wholly allegoricall, and therfore can∣not so well be inforced for dogmaticall proofe, without a full explanation of the words; which the Gagger should haue done.

II. It is altogether against himselfe in the exposition, if hee either durst, or had been able to haue set it downe: for by high∣way may be vnderstood the common profession or points of Re∣ligion, for good and bad, as the high-way is for all; then the way of holinesse is taken for a more strict profession, or more straight Rules of Religion. If so, then consider the persons who they bee, that shall not erre in this way: hee doth not say, The

Church, or the learned Church men, or men in holy Orders; for are these fooles? but wayfaring men, though fooles, shall not erre. Here is a promise, that the simple Laytie shall not mistake their way; which Popish Teachers cannot abide to heare of. Nei∣ther shall any vncleane passe ouer this way: but they teach, that their Church Catholike consists of elect and reprobate, both good and bad, cleane and vncleane. Therefore in a spirituall sense the words are to be vnderstood of the onely sanctified by Gods Spirit, here trauelling in this World as wayfaring men; and though esteemed as fooles, yet are so guided in their holy profession, as they shall not bee suffered to wander out of the way of life, neither totally nor finally. But he will say, If these shall not erre, then much lesse shall the Church. True, who de∣nies it? we doe not say, that all the whole Church, and all the ho∣ly that euer haue been, such as this place speaketh of, haue all er∣red this thousand yeeres, as the Gagger beares his Reader in hand, making him beleeue, that we so teach. Here the Prophet speakes of the Lords redeemed separated from the vncleane, in a spirituall estate, in and by Christ; but in our dispute we speake of the visible Church of cleane and vncleane, good and bad, and of a mixt company.

III. This verse, and the whole chapter, speakes in the first place, of the returne from Captiuitie, which the Prophet doth expresse in figuratiue speeches, to set out the comfort thereof most liuely: and so it is nothing to the purpose, for which the Gagger brings it. In a high sense it sets out the spirituall happi∣nesse of the redeemed by Christ, partly here begun, and fully to be perfected in the day of the Churches perfect redemption.

IV. It speakes not here of the Churches teaching, but ra∣ther of the Saints trauailing towards Heauen: But the word, not erre, made the Gagger thinke, he had obtained his purpose, and an expresse text for not erring in Doctrine, when the words speake of a way, a high-way, of trauailing men, and others not passing ouer it, and of the redeemeds walking, vers. 9. Then be∣ing vnderstood of not erring in life, it cannot be taken absolute∣ly: for error of life is in the best, but they erre not to finall de∣struction.

Ephes. 5. 27. That hee might present it to himselfe a glorious Church, not hauing spot or wrinkle, or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Answ. 1. Our dispute is of the visible Church, and mixt com∣pany; this is to be vnderstood only of the body, whereof Christ in the most proper sense, is the Head and Sauiour, vers. 9. which hee nourisheth and cherisheth, vers. 29. betweene whom and Christ thereis such an vnion, as it is called a great Mystery, vers. 32. which cannot properly be meant of visible Churches, con∣sisting not onely of Elect, but also of Reprobates, who are not clensed, nor nourished, or cherished, as members of his body, nor made euer glorious.

II. The Apostle speakes heere of the Church either as triumphant, or, if as militant, then as it is in preparing, and as it shall bee hereafter in Heauen: for in this life, it is not altogether spotlesse, without wrinkle or blemish, Cant. 1. 5, 6.

III. This place doth serue rather to prooue her puritie in life, then infallibilitie of iudgement in teaching: this latter is hence farre fetched; the former may seeme more apparant. But will any beleeue, that Gods Church for life and conuersation, is in this life without spot, wrinkle or blemish?

1. Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the liuing God, the ground and pillar of truth.

Because this place is much vrged by others, and the last of this Gaggers, I will more fully make answer vnto it. Hence hee would conclude, that the Church cannot erre; he meaneth the Church of Rome, the Pope, at least, the virtuall Church; for they defend not now any Church from errour, but their owne. But this they can neuer proue out of the place.

I. Saint Paul wrote to Timothy, how he should behaue him∣selfe in the Church, 1. Tim. 3. 14. So his Epistle, that is, the Apo∣stolicall written Word, was made to be Timothies rule, to guide him from erring, and not the Churches determination. S. Paul, for all this his praise of the Church, sent him not to Her, but pre∣scribed him a written Word, to direct him in gouerning of her, which hee would not haue done, if by calling the Church, the

pillar and ground of truth, he had meant she could not haue er∣red.

II. Saint Paul speaketh thus of the then present Church of Ephesus, where Timothy was, chap. 1. 3. built vpon the founda∣tion, Ephes. 2. 20. and yet she soone left her first Loue, Reuel. 2. 4. and after fell away.

III. The word Church comprehendeth all the faithfull to∣gether at Ephesus: so the Church of Ephesus is taken, Reuel. 2. 1. But our Aduersaries will not haue the people (as the Apo∣stles allowed, Act. 15. 22.) with their Bishops and Pastors, to be the Church, and with them to approue of matters of Faith: For the Romish Clergie thinke of the people, as did the hypocriti∣call Pharises, that they know not the Law, and are cursed, Ioh. 7. 49. Except they allow the people also with the Teachers, to be the pillar and ground of truth, this place doth not serue their turne.

IV. If the word Church bee taken for any other particular Church, to which Timothie, as an Euangelist, might goe, after the Apostles planting of them, then from hence the Papists cannot conclude that which they would: for first, they acknow∣ledge, that particular Churches may erre. Secondly, its euident by Scripture, in the Churches of Galatia, Gal. 1. and 3. 1. and 4. 10, 11. by historie, and by experience. Now, the Church of Rome was neuer other then a particular Church, in the best spi∣rituall estate thereof. Saint Paul writes to it no otherwise, then to a particular Church.

V. If it be taken for the Vniuersall Church; this helpes not them. For first, theirs is not the vniuersall, but a particular Church, as is proued after in the sixteenth question.

Secondly, it is absurd to reason from that which is not que∣stioned, nor can euer assemble together to come to the triall, if it were questionable.

VI. The intituling of the Church, to bee the pillar and ground of truth, wil not afford the conclusion of not erring, and that for these Reasons. First, because the words are metapho∣ricall, and a similitude must be extended no farther then is in en∣ded. Now, the Church is called the pillar and ground, not be∣cause

shee cannot erre: but first, for that she hath the Apostles writings committed to her, as were the Oracles of God to the Iewes, Rom 3. 2. which Apostles writings are (saith Irenous) the pillars and supporters of our faith; the proofes, foundations,* 1.7 and the grounds of our cause, as Saint * 1.8 Augustine speakes. Se∣condly, as Lyra thinkes, it is so called, for that the Church doth maintaine the truth of the Gospell, euen in the greatest persecu∣tions: and, as other iudge, for that it vpholdeth the truth, that it may not fall to the ground, though it be afflicted; and because by words and examples it confirmes our Faith. Thirdly, the Apostle speakes according to the vse of pillars in old time a∣mong the Gentiles, on which their Lawes, written in Tables, were hanged vp for people to reade: yea, some wrote the Lawes vpon pillars themselues. So as the Church here is resembled to those pillars, which hath the Bookes of holy Lawes, to shew them, and to vphold them, and to exhibite them out vnto all to bee seene and read.

Secondly, because Saint Peter was counted a Pillar, Gal. 2 9. and yet he erred, euen in not walking according to the truth of the Gospell, vers. 14.

Thirdly, because Saint Paul calleth so the Church at Ephesus then, as she was, and so long to be so esteemed as she should continue. Thus Saint Paul to the Hebrewes telleth them, that they with himselfe and others, are the House of Christ, if (saith he) we hold fast the confidence, and the reioycing of the hope firme vnto the end: implying, that if they did not, they should not be so. Can any well conclude from that, which one is at the present, that he shall euer be the same? Then had not our first Parents fallen; nor Salomon been an Idolater; nor the Israelites now, none of Gods people; nor Rome, (as she is) spirituall Ba∣bylon.

Fourthly, because not the name and title of the House of God it self (by which name the Church is called here, in 1. Tim. 3. 15. as also beleeuers are called by the name of the houshold of God, Ephes. 2. 19.) will afford this their conclusion. For the Church of Ephesus, so called, did erre. Now, may it not be inferred from hence, that she is called the House, and beleeuers the Houshold?

and may it be inferred, because she is called a pillar only, or stay, to vphold the house? Will not the whole house, nor the house∣hold yeeld it? And will a pillar, or prop, make it good? Very vn∣likely.

Fifthly, it is onely vpon the praise giuen to the Church, that this conclusion is made. Is this then good arguing; Whatsoe∣uer prayses the Church hath, that for which, or wherein shee is praysed, she hath it in perfection? Here she is called the pillar and ground of truth: Ergo, (say they) she cannot erre. See the like reasoning; She is the houshold of Faith, Gal. 6. 10. Ergo, she neuer hath any doubting. Yet this they deny, and hold here to haue no certaine assurance.

Lastly, consider the truth, of which shee is the pillar and ground. * 1.9 Oecumenius vnderstands it in opposition to the shad∣dowes in the Temple vnder the Law; there the type, here the truth; there the shadow, here the substance. But the Temple was onely the pillar and ground, that is, the appointed place where the knowledge and vse of the Ceremoniall Law was had and vpheld: so onely is now the Church, the place where the diuine truth is to be found, and is in practice, and no where else. Truth in Scripture is taken for the Word of God, Ioh. 17. 17. and 8. 31, 32. the Gospell, the Word of truth, Col. 1. 5. Gal. 5. 7. euen the Mystery of godlinesse, as Saint Paul in this place of the 1. Tim. 3. 16. enterpreteth the Word, Truth.

So then, the Church of God is the pillar and ground or stay of Gods Word and his Gospell, euen the mysterie of godlinesse. This she receiueth, keepeth, beareth vp, publisheth to the world, and is the ground whereon it doth rest, and no where else in the world. What then? Is she, or it the Rule? Is her authoritie aboue it, or it aboue her? The King committeth to some the publike Records, to keepe and to publish to other. Is their au∣thoritie greater then these? Are their words of force, without the warrant of those Records? Or is it not possible for these keepers of them, to erre in their proceedings? We know the contrary. The Iewes had the Oracles of God committed to them, Rom. 3. 2. but haue not they erred? The Church of Co∣rinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Philippi, Colosse, Thessalonica, He∣brewes,

and other Churches in the East, had the new Testament committed to them; yet haue they, we see, erred. So hath the Church of Rome very shamefully, as the Epistle written to them doth testifie, if her now new doctrine be examined by it. The Church therefore, the visible mixt company, of whom all our dispute is, may erre.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Psal. 81. 9.
• * 1.2

  Psal 1••••. 1. Psal. 13••. 8. Psal. 132. 13, 14
• * 1.3

  1. King. 9. 3.
• * 1.4

  Decret. Greg. li. 3. de sent. ex∣com. ca. 28. A nobis est saepe. Super 5. de sent. excom. Ano∣bis 2.
• * 1.5

  Can. 6.
• * 1.6

  Li. 2. ca. 19. de Doct. sid.
• * 1.7

  Li. 3. ca. 1.
• * 1.8

  De vnit. Eccl. ca. 16. On this 1. Tim. 3.
• * 1.9

  On this place, Ioh. 5. 23