A detection of sundrie foule errours, lies, sclaunders, corruptions, and other false dealinges, touching doctrine, and other matters vttered and practized by M.Iewel, in a booke lately by him set foorth entituled, a defence of the apologie. &c. By Thomas Harding doctor of diuinitie.

Iewel.

For lacke of this Succession, for that in our Sees in the Churches of England, vve find not so many Idolatours, Necromancers, Heretikes, Ad∣uouterers, Churcherobbers, Periured persones, Mankillers, Renegates, Monsters, Scribes, and Pharisees, as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome, therefore I trovve M. Harding saith, vve haue no Succession: vve are no Bishops: vve haue no Church at al.

Harding.

Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes, as the Churche of Rome hath continued

yeres. But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution, as Rome hath, if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of en∣emies, as wel within, as without, as wel with prosperi∣tie, as aduersitie: I trow your Church would haue had before this, as many Idolatours, Necromancers, Here∣tiques, Aduouterers, and such others by you named, as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops. And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes, and that with∣in these xx. yeres, then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men, within these fiften hundred yeres.* 1.1 For your beginning, progresse, and the whole pro∣fession of your life is nothing but heresie, whereunto I∣dolatrie is euermore annexed. For an heretike doth al∣waies worship his owne conceit, and phantasie for truth, and whereas God is truth, he worshippeth his phantasie for God, which is Idolatrie.

If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie, he defen∣ded it not, as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable, and godly vowes, and the marriages of con∣secrated persons, who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme, whose marriages saith S. Hie∣rome be not so much Aduouteries,* 1.2 as Inceste. But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes, within fiften hundred yeres, you haue falsely numbred sixe, or seuen, as Heretikes: whereas you can not denie, but there haue ben in the same Succession aboue thirtie martyrs, who died for Christes sake, and as many confessours, or moe, whom al the good men in the Church haue accompted for holy and blessed men. There was neuer general Coū∣cel holden by catholique Bishops, which did not cōmu∣nicate with that See, and reioysed to be honoured, and cōfirmed by it, From S. Peters time to our age you cannot

name any one daie, or howre (marcke wel M. Iewel, you can not name one daie, or howre, I say) in which any knowen Catholike Bishop in al the world, did, or might euer say with the approbation of good men: I defie, or I despise, or I do not communicate with the Church of Rome, how soeuer some one Pope might seeme not cō∣mendable, yet the Church, the faith, the Doctrine, the Succession was euer commended of al Catholike men.

To that See appealed, and resorted, as to the chiefe Light of the Church,a 1.3 Irenaeus,b 1.4 Tertullian,c 1.5 Optatus,d 1.6 S. Ambrose,e 1.7 S. Hierome,f 1.8 S. Augustine,g 1.9 Prosper, with al the fathers besides. That See promoted the Gospel into the endes of the world, into England, Scotlād, Ireland, Den∣marcke, the low Countrie, Germanie, Polonia, Lituania, Prussia, Liuonia, Hungaria, Bohemia, Bulgaria, and pre∣sently into the new founde Landes.

That See conquered al heresies, cōfounded them, and al their authours, and mainteiners, from Simon Magus to Martine Luther, and Ihon Caluin, who now beginneth to be brought very lowe, and by Gods wil shalbe brought lower shortely, the follie, and rebellious sprite, which his Doctrine breedeth in his adherentes, breaking out, and shewing it selfe daily to the world more and more. See M. Iewel, you, and your fellowes are as sore a fraid, as euer was the gilty theefe of his iudge, or the naughty boye of his maister. But do I say (trow you) that ye therfore haue no Succession, or that yee are no Bishops, and haue no Church, bicause in your Churches of England there are not to be founde so many Idolatours, so many Necromācers, so many Heretiques, Aduouteres, Churcherobbers, Per∣iured persons, Mankillers, Renegates, Monsters, Scribes,

and Pharisees, as many easily be founde in the Church of Rome? Nay I trow M. Iewel you take your marke amisse. For if I thought so, as it pleaseth you to thinke of me, I would not haue denied you, neither Succession, such as it is, nor Bishops, nor Churches, or rather Congregations, nor Mi∣nisters, nor Minstrels neither, for the better furnishing of them withal, if these so many worthy qualities, could worke so great an effecte. For, that I speake not here of Heretikes,* 1.10 and so cōsequently of Idolatours, which faulte is common to you al: what aduouterers, whoremasters, Incestuous persons, Churche robbers, Church breakers, Periured persons, Mankillers, Renegates, Abiured men, Friers, Apostates, Lecherous Munkes, Tapsters, Hostlers, Pedlers, Tinckers, Coblers, Summoners, Viceplayers, De∣uil Players, Fellons, Horse stealers, Newgate menne, briefly what vile, and rascal rable want ye to fournish vp your Succession, your bishoprikes, your Synagogues, and Ministring roumes withal? Verely if this geare could make a Succession, it shal soone be made good, that ye haue also a Succession such, as it is. And ye neede not to mistrust any whit at al, hauing so many of euery sorte, as shalbe more then inough for you. Marie put these away out of your congregations (I would cal them Churches, were not that name to good for you) I feare me you would leaue but a poore seely clergie behinde.* 1.11

But how easy is it (trow you M. Iewel) to find so ma∣ny Idolatours in the Churche of Rome, as you beare vs in hande there may be founde? Doth one poore facte of S. Marcellinus alone, for the whiche he repented foorthwith, and dyed a glorious Martyr of God, make vp with you so many Idolatours? I am wel assu∣red,

that if you could haue found but one Pope more that had done the like, you would not haue spared him (your modestie is such) but he should haue ben scored vp also, to make vp your number of so many Idolatours.

Be it that Syluester was a Necromancer,* 1.12 and Hilde∣brand too, who was of that crime (as of many other) vn∣truly sclaundered by his enemies, that could not abide to heare of any correction for their enormous faultes, and therefore spited that good Pope, as you doo al the Popes: wil yet those two make such a number of Necro∣mancers in that See, that it were a very easy matter to finde so many, as you would gladly make your Readers beleeue there were?

Be it that Liberius, Leo, Coelestinus, Honorius,* 1.13 and Ihon the 22. holding priuate opinions without open mainte∣nance of them had ben Heretikes, as you most sclaun∣derously reporte them out of baudye Bale, and braine-sicke Illyricus: yet these fiue make not so great a number pardy, that it should be an easy thing for you to finde so many Heretikes in the See of Rome, as ful rhetorically you set the matter forth. Now with what face pretende you vnto the worlde, that it is an easy matter, to finde so many Heretiques emong the Bishops of Rome, where∣as with long prying, and pooring in al your brethrens bookes, you could finde but fiue, to whom you durst to impute that crime, of whiche yet three are vniustly sclaundered, and the other two, only misliked for their priuate assertions, and neuer denounced Heretikes for stubborne maintenance, or making any open Decree touching that, whereof once they erroneously iudged.

But yet you wil saie, that among the Bishops of Rome

there were many Aduouterers,* 1.14 many Church Robbers, many Periured persons, many Mankillers, many Rene∣gates. It is happy M. Iewel, that your worde is no sclaun∣der. But I pray you good sir, how many can you truly name of al these? For of so great a number as you speak of, it is wel likely, you can name some: and your malice is such against the Popes, that you wil spare none, howe smal a surmise soeuer you haue inducing you to thinke so euil of any Pope. Go to then M. Iewel, of your so ma∣ny, name vs some one infamous in eche of these great crimes, which indifferently you laye to the charge of the Bishops of Rome, leauing an euil suspicion in your Readers head, that for the most parte, al the Bishoppes of Rome were giltie of the one, or the other. How many Aduoutrers then can you name to vs? Pope Hildebrand (saye you) was an Aduouterer, that is a starke sclaunde∣rous lie. But were it true, how many mo can you name? let vs heare them. Is there no mo but Pope Hildebrand? Is one now become many with you, and many but one?

* 1.15Perchaunce yet of your Churche Robbers you haue greater stoare. And who were they I praye you emong the Popes, that committed that heynous facte? Hilde∣brand you tel vs againe was a Church Robber. Doubte∣lesse this poore Pope hath offended you very muche, whiche argueth he was a good Pope. And were there no mo Churche Robbers amonge the Popes, but Hilde∣brand? Cough vp M. Iewel, voide the malicious humour of your stomake. Of so many Churche robbers as are in that rewe of Bishops, name vs but one more. For vpon so great a vaunt, your Reader may happely thinke, that you could name some other besides Hildebrand. But suppose

that this Hildebrand had ben no Churche Robber (as in deede he was none, and you could not iustly haue char∣ged him therwith, had you not put your felicitie in sclaū∣dering good and vertuous men) where then might a man so easly haue found, I say not so many Churchrobbers, as you tel vs of, but only one emōg al the Bishops of Rome?

Wel yet of Periured persons, we shal find great num∣bers, that you might not be found a sclaunderer in that point,* 1.16 how wel soeuer you haue acquited your selfe of the former. Go to then, tel vs how many Periured per∣sons occupied that roume, and who they were. You tel vs once againe, that Hildebrand was a Periured person. Verely you are much beholden to Hildebrād, but special∣ly to that wicked cōuenticle of naughtie Bishops assem∣bled by the Emperour at Brixia, who most vniustly sclaū∣derd that godly Pope. For had they not ben, you had lost a faire rhetorical lie, I should haue said a foule cōclusion.

But yet perhaps there were emong the Popes many Mankillers, and many Renegates,* 1.17 whom if you can name to your Reader, you may peraduenture seeme to him at the lest in this, a true reporter, and not a malicious sclaū∣derer. Who then were these so many Mankillers? so ma∣ny Renegates? Of likelyhod you know many such, or els you would not so stoutly auouch it. Tel on, Perge menti∣ri, name vs them. Yet once againe you tel vs, that Hilde∣brand was a Mankiller, Hildebrand was a Renegate. But what, was there none but Hildebrand M. Iewel? Among two hundred Popes, and vpward can you finde none that was an Aduouterer, a Churchrobber, a Periured per∣son, a Mankiller, a Renegate, but only Pope Hildebrand? And yet you tel vs, that of men of these qualities there

haue ben such a number in that rewe of Bishoppes, that of euery sorte it were (or elles you lye, sauing other mennes honestie) an easy matter to finde many. Are they now so suddainly vanished out of sight, that, to saue your poore honestie, you can bring vs forth none, but onely Hildebrand? And howe can Pope Hildebrand, whom most vniustly, and vpon the manifest sclaunder of his en∣emies, you haue here accused, make vp the number of your so many Aduouterers, so many Church robbers, so many Periured persons, so many Mankillers, so many Re∣negates? Are you not ashamed thus notoriously, and withal most sclaunderously to belye that blessed Succes∣sion of Bishops, which hath through the miraculous wor∣king of God continewed without interruption from S. Peters time vntil these our dayes?

Leaue, leaue M. Iewel these vaine, Rhetorical, lying, and sclaunderous conclusions. Goe simply, and plaine∣ly to the matter, tel no more then you are wel hable to proue. Learne rather to speake wel of your forefathers, then with such impudencie to diffame, and speake il of them, who are departed this world in the vnitie of the Churche, and peace of Christe.

And whereas you charge me with saying that ye haue no Succession, no Bishoppes, no Churche, bicause ye haue no Idolatours, Necromancers, Heretikes, and such like, and then would seeme to salue the matter againe with an (I trow): I trow it be no good manner, and lesse honestie, to saie that of your aduersarie, which by no co∣lour possibly, you can pike out of his wordes. How be it I forgeue it you, for that euery man may easily per∣ceiue it, to be but a pretie sleight of your arte (whiche

as I trow) most menne cal the arte of lying.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Idolatrie annexed vnto He∣resie.
• * 1.2

  Aduersus Iouin. li. 1.
• a 1.3

  Li. 3. c. 3.
• b 1.4

  De Praes.
• c 1.5

  Lib. 2.
• d 1.6

  Ad Si∣riciū. ep. 81
• e 1.7

  Ad. Da∣masum.
• f 1.8

  Epi. 165.
• g 1.9

  De vo∣cat. gent. li. 2. c. 16.
• * 1.10

  The cler¦gie of these nevv cō∣gregatiōs vvherby Successiō is clai∣med.
• * 1.11

  See hovv M. Ievvel vvil pro∣ue his so many Ido¦latours &c. In the Church of Rome.
• * 1.12

  So many Necromā¦cers.
• * 1.13

  So many heretikes.
• * 1.14

  So many aduoute∣rers, &c
• * 1.15

  So many Churche robbers.
• * 1.16

  So many Periured persons.
• * 1.17

  So many mākillers and Rene¦gates.