Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter.

ARTIC. VI.

Sanctity and Miracles prove not the Roman Church true.

The Roman Church is not demonstrated to be the true Church by her Sanctity and Mira∣cles.

SECT. I.

The Texts brought by H. T. to prove that the true Church is known by Sanctity and Miracles are shewed to be impertinent.

H. T. proceeds thus, Article 6. The true Church demonstrated by her Sancti∣ty and Miracles. Our Tenet is, that the Roman Catholick Church is known and evidently distinguished from all false Churches, not onely by the marks and properties by us premised, but also by her sanctity and power of doing Mi∣racles, and is proved thus, That is thé true Church and lawfull Spouse of Christ which is eminent for Sanctity of Discipline, and Doctrine, and for Miracles. But the Roman Catholick Church and no other is eminent for Sanctity of Discipline and Doctrine, and for Miracles; therefore the Roman Catholick Church and no other is the true Church and lawfull Spouse of Christ. The Major for Sanctity is proved by that Article of the Apostles Creed, I be∣lieve the holy Catholick Church, as also by these Texts of holy Scripture; Christ gave himself for his Church, cleansing her by the Laver of Water (Baptism) in the Word, that he might present her to himself a glorious Church, not having spot or wrinkle, but that she might be holy and unspotted, Ephes. 5. 27. These things ye were (saith St. Paul) but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God, 1 Cor. 6. 10. A good Tree bringeth forth good Fruit, by their Fruit ye shall know them, St. Matth. 7 17, 20. Strait is the Gate, and narrow is the Way which leadeth to Life, &c. If thou wilt be per∣fect, go and sell all thou hast, and give to the poor, &c. and come and follow me, St. Matth. 19. 21. There be Eunuchs who have gelded themselves for the Kingdom of Heaven, he that can take let him take, St. Matth. 10. 12. Obey your Prelates, and be subject to them, &c. Heb. 13. 17.

Answ. 1. THe Syllogism is not good, the words [and no other] be∣ing wanting in the Major Proposition, and, if they be put in, the Major is false. That which is eminent for Sanctity of Discipline and Doctrine, and for Miracles, and no other, is the true Church and lawfull Spouse of Christ. For a Chnrch may be true and a lawfull Spouse of Christ which is not eminent for Miracles. Else it would go ill with all the Churches since Mi∣racles have ceased, and with the Church consisting of John Baptist and his Disciples. But as it is now expressed by H. T. I grant the Major, though ex∣cept the words of Christ, Matth 7. 17, 20. the Texts are all impertinent. The Article of the Creed is not meant of the meer visible church, but of the church which is also the invisible of the elect persons, nor is it meant of holi∣ness of outward Discipline and Doctrine, but of inward real holiness, and so are Ephes. 5. 27. 1 Cor. 6. 10, 11. yea the former is meant of that holiness, which is perfect without spot or wrinkle, when the Church is presented to him∣self at his appearing, and the other of that sanctifying which is by the Spirit of God, and not onely by Baptism. The Texts Matth. 7. 13, 14. & 19. 11, 12. & Mark 10. 21. Heb. 13. 17. are not expressions of properties, which are marks of the church, but Precepts, and signifie what duty some did or ought to do. Now the doing of some duties is not a mark of the church, as v. g. do∣ing justice, giving to the poor, relieving the Saints, selling all we have, which may be in Infidels; and those duties which are in the three later Texts are special duties of some, and therefore not marks which agree to the whole church, but such as all members are not tied to, every member (not a woman) is not to geld himself, but he that can take it, nor to sell all (Papists make these Evangelical counsels of more perfection than is ordinary) nor to obey Prelates, and therefore in such they are no parts of Sanctity, much less marks of a true church.

SECT. II.

The Sanctity of men in former Ages proves not the holiness of the present Ro∣man Church.

BUt it is the Minor which is to be denied, of which H. T. saith thus, Now that the Roman Catholick Church hath abounded with, and brought forth Saints in all Ages (which is a pregnant and convincing proof of our se∣cond Proposition) is manifest by the Chronicles and Martyrologies of the whole Christian World.

Answ. 1. To talk of the Roman catholick church is non-sense as is shew∣ed before. 2. It is scarce good sense to say, The Church brings forth Saints, when the church is no other than the Saints or a company of Saints, 3. Were

it yielded that the Church did abound with and bring forth Saints in all Ages, yet this proves not the sanctity of the church, but of those Saints in it, nor doth it at all prove the sanctity of the Discipline or Doctrine, but of the per∣sons, much less the power of Miracles, the sanctity of the church, persons being often Saints, as John Baptist, who have not power of doing Miracles, and un∣holy persons have it sometimes, Matth. 7. 22, 23. and if it did prove any thing it would prove the privilege of the person, not the sanctity of the church. 4. The sanctity of the now Roman Church is not proved by the holiness of per∣sons in former Ages, whereof many never were of Rome, nor is it likely ever heard of it, some of them opposed the Roman Church, and some lived and died in a state of disclaiming of it, and some kinde of excommunication from it, and had they lived to see its pride and wickedness, as now it is, would no doubt have abhorred it with greatest detestation; much less is it proved by the holi∣ness of men dead one thousand or four hundred years, especially when the holi∣ness of those few is obscured by the almost universal ungodliness of their chief Bishops (whom they account their visible Heads, and essential parts of their Church) and Clergy and Laity in Rome it self for a thousand years past, which hath been so notorious, as almost all their Historians, and Preachers, and Poets have described it so, as that it may be conceived justly, that Rome is and hath been a sink of all uncleanness: There are verily, saith Bellarm. lib. 4. de notis Eccles. cap. 13. in the Catholick Church very many evil persons: and some of their own Popes, as Adrian the sixth, have confessed by Cheregatus his Legate, that abominations were committed in that holy See, the inf••••••ity passed from the Head to the Members, from the Popes to the inferiour Prelates, in so much that there hath been none that hath done good, no not one. Innumerable have been the complaints made by all sorts, and sometimes by the Princes of the German Empire of their Grievances by the Popes and Court of Rome. Nor do Tra∣vellers tell us of any Reformation considerable since the Trent Council: their own Writers tell us, there is no Excommunication for the common vices, but onely some Penance, which effects no change; in the apprehension of Sir Edwin Sandys, if it were not for a little formal abstinence in Lent there would be an universal Deluge of vice in Italy; so that he who denieth the Roman Clergy and Church to be a most unholy and filthy People hath gotten a Whores fore∣head that cannot blush. There are sins among Protestants, but I never yet met with Writer or Traveller, but would prefer London and other Protestant Towns as more free from impurity of body, blasphemy, cruelty, treachery, in∣justice, Atheism, and such other sins as are not to be named, than Rome is, where hath been permission of Whore-houses for Money by the Pope, and the Whores and Bastards of Popes and Cardinals so notoriously domineer.

SECT. III.

The imagined holiness of Benedict, Augustine, Francis, Dominick, proves not the verity of the now Roman Church.

BUt let us see what H. T. saith for their Holiness, St. Augustine and his fellows who converted England, when they were received into Canterbu∣ry, (saith Hollingshead, part. 1. pag. 100.) began to follow the trade of the Apostles, exercising themselves in continual prayer, fasting, watching, and preaching, despising all worldly things, and living in all points according to the Doctrine which they taught. St. Francis, St. Benet, and St. Dominick, were all eminent for sanctity of life, as the Magdeburgian Centurists, confes. cent. 13. Col. 11. 79. But I never yet heard of any Protestant Saints in the World.

Answ. What a foolish proof is this of his Minor, that the Roman Church and no other is eminent for sanctity of life, because Benedict and Austin the Monk a thousand years since, Francis and Dominick five hundred years ago were su••h in his esteem, and he hath heard of no Saints among Protestants? As if there might be no Saints in the Greek church, though he hear of no Protestant Saints, or as if the Greek church now judged schismatick might not be as well proved or rather better to be eminent for sanctity of life for the holiness of Chrysostome, Basil, Nazianzen, Gregory Nyssen, as the now Roman, for the re∣puted holiness of Austin, Benet, Francis, and Dominick. But might there not be Protestant Saints which he hears not of? Protestants are the same with Primitive Christians in their Religion or Articles of Faith and Worship, and as such all the holy Apostles, Martyrs, Confessours, which have been true Christians have been Protestant Saints, as protesting against the Popish cor∣ruptions in Doctrine, Discipline, and Worship; so all the holy men who have protested against them in all Ages have been Protestant Saints. Thus Cyprian and Augustin who protested against the Popes usurpation about receiving Ap∣peals from Africa; Gregory the Great who protested against the usurpation of the Title and Power of an universal Bishop, the Synod of Frankford which protested against Image-worship were Protestant Saints. And for Waldus, and the Waldenses that they were Protestants is manifest, and Saints too, their own Works shewed. (See Morland's History of the Evangelical Churches in Piedmont) even Rainerius their Adversary being Judge. And for Wickliff, Reginald Peacock, Robert Grosthead, Richardus Armachanus, and many more their Lives were so exemplary as shamed their Adversaries, and yet they were Protestants more or less against Popish Errours and Abuses. It is true, Protestants are not canonized Saints by Popes, who use to canonize for Mo∣ney or other respects some ignorant superstitious persons, or else active Instru∣ments for their party: but the holiness of Protestants since Luther began the Reformation hath been such as hath caused even their Enemies to ascribe much excellency to their eminent Leaders. Notwithstanding Bolse••k's Lye (of which the wiser Papists are ashamed) yet Florimundus Raymundus, Papyrius Massonius, and others, acknowledged Calvin to have been a man eminent for strictness of life, and industry in his pastoral work beyond any Papist they

could name. Melancthon is commended even by Papists for his holy, peace∣able, and painfull conversation in the work of the Lord. The Lives of the chief Reformers shewed them to be such as had the Spirit of God dwelling in them, Hooper and Bradford in England, Patrick Hammilton and George Wise∣heart in Scotland were men of exemplary godliness; that I name not late men, such as John Fox, John Dod, Richard Grenham, and many more whose Lives and Works shewed them to have been men of holy conversation, and of much acquaintance with God, whom this Scribler and such like superstitious Papists, who place holiness in observance of humane inventions rather than in Gods commands, obeying the Pope rather than Christ, and believing the lying Le∣gends of Friers before the true reports of godly Preachers of the Gospel, ha∣ving prejudice against them, condemn as Hereticks. Yethet they that place ho∣liness in following the Rules of Christ, and not humane traditions, do judge them to have been holy and blessed men, such as have had not onely a form, but also the power of godliness. As for what H. T. saith out of Hollingshead of Austin and his followers, it speaks only what they did at the beginning, but it is certain that Austin did not so persevere, but that he shewed much pride towards the British Bishops, and so much malice to the Banchor Monks, men of more re∣puted holiness than himself, that he was suspected at least to have been Instiga∣tor of a cruel Massacre of two thousand of them for not submitting to him, and receiving the Roman Rites. And for his converting of England, though I am willing to let him have his due commendation, yet neither is it true that he converted all England, and those he did convert he did also pervert by his ob∣truding the Romish Orders, which Christ never appointed, whence a great De∣luge of Superstition spread over Britain, and much discord and misery followed thereupon, as may be seen in the Writers of the English Histories. As for Be∣nedict who was before Austin the Monk, and Francis and Dominick after, that which I finde in the Relation of their Lives by Villegas, translated by Heig∣ham, gives me no such cause as to judge them to have been men of such holi∣ness as the Popes and Friers have judged them to be, but at the best deluded persons with the Errour of those times, in which holiness was placed in mo∣nastical profession, and austere Discipline, which the Apostle counts to be no better than will-worship, Col. 2. 23. and their talk of their Miracles and Visi∣ons are no better than old wives tales, upon the report of which Popes as igno∣rant as themselves, or otherwise corrupt, have canonized them for their own ends; and the preaching of Dominick was against the truth professed by the Albigenses, whom Rainerius confesseth to have been men otherwise holy in Life and Doctrine, but that they spake against the church of Rome, of whose idolatry, pride, cruelty, avarice, uncleanness of body, there is so much in all the Writers of those times as is sufficient to shew, that those men had cause to abhor them, and to fear the yielding subjection to them, who had departed from Christ, by their setting up other Mediatours besides him, and changed pure Christian Religion into a corrupt mixture of Paganism, Judaism, and Christi∣anity: the shedding of whose Blood was in a great measure caused by Domi∣nick's Sermons, who may be therefore judged a wicked Murderer rather than an holy Saint. That which the century Writers say of these men is but a Relation out of the Writers of the Romanists, that they were by them accounted emi∣nent

for sanctity according to the opinion of those times: but that they any where ascribed to them real holiness I finde not.

SECT. IV.

The Roman Church is not proved to be the true Church by the holness of their Do∣ctrine, but the contrary is true.

H. T. proceeds thus, Adde hereunto what the Catholick Church teaches, that the Commandments are possible, nay, must be kept, she teaches the necessity of Contrition, Confession, aud Satisfaction, with many other practices of self-denial; she teaches obedience to Priests and spiritual Pastours, in things be∣longing to the soul and the government of the Church; she teaches much fast∣ing, prayer, and mortification; she exhorts to good works, voluntary poverty, chastity, and obedience. The contrary to all which Doctrines are taught by Protestants and other Sectaries.

Answ. THe Papists teach not onely that the Commandments of God are possible, and that they must be kept (which Protestants teach also) but they also teach, that in this life a person in the state of grace may perfectly keep the whole Law of God, so as not to sin, (except venially, which is with them not a sin properly, as being besides, not against the Law) and thereby be justified, and that many things, which are horrid evils, are venial sins, and that a person may satisfie for them, by Works of Penance, which are for the most part easie things, yea, they teach that a man may by his good works merit of condignity (either by virtue of Gods promise, or the worth of the work) eternal life, yea, that he may do Works of Supererogation, and merit for others, and that thereby is made up a Treasury in the Church, which with the redundance of Christ's sufferings may by Indulgences be laid out for others, for the relaxation of their punishment in Purgatory. But this Doctrine Pro∣testants abhor, as being so far from being holy▪ that they detest it as anti-evan∣gelical, proudly evacuating the grace of the Gospel, and they teach that most blessed, holy, and precious Doctrine of the Gospel, that the most holy mee•• man is unable in this life, though regenerate according to the measure of re∣newing grace, he hath to keep the Law of God perfectly, so as to fail in no point, or so as to be justified before God by pleading any Works of his own be∣fore, or after Regeneration, or can merit of condignity in proper acception any thing at Gods hands, much lesseternal life, but all that are justified are justifi∣ed by faith in Christ freely by the grace of God through the Redemption that is in Jesus Christ, and that eternal life is the gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord, and this we are sure as far exceeds in holiness Popish Doctrine as Christ exceeds Moses, the Gospel the Law, the new covenant the old. Pro∣testants teach the necessity of contrition of spirit for sin, and confession of sin to God, and satisfaction to men whom we have injured, if able: but the ne∣cessity of confession to a Priest, and such power of absolution and enjoyning

Penance, as Papists ascribe to a Priest, and such satisfaction to God for sin, as they teach and practise, we deny, as being injurious to the Blood of Christ, an arrogant usurpation of what Christ never conferred, but a fruit of ignorance of the nature of repentance, and of the mystery of the Gospel, and a meer En∣gine to rob the people, and to hold them in slavish subjection to their Priests. We say, that it is true self-denial when Christ requires it, and either the glory of God, the truth of Christ, and obedience to him must be forsaken, or our goods, liberties and lives, than to deny our selves by not retaining them: but that it is no part of that self-denial which Christ requires, nor any part of Christian mortification for a man unnecessarily to leave his estate and imploy∣ment, to whip himself, creep to a cross, go on pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and such other things as Christ never required, but are meer superstition and hypo∣crisie. Protestants teach obedience to spiritual Pastours in things belonging to the soul, and the government of the Church, when they teach them to observe what Christ commanded: but they justly refuse to subject their consciences to such commands of Prelates and Priests as Christ never appointed, but judge it necessary to stand fast in the liberty they have by Christ, and not be entangled with the yoke of bondage, which Popes, and Prelates, and Priests, under pre∣tence of the Church (of which they are the least part) about difference of Meats, Marriage, Holy-days, Temples, and such like things endeavour to im∣pose on their consciences and practise, as being injurious to their Christian free∣dome and an heavy burden. Protestants teach much fasting when God calls for it in time of affliction, and for more advantage in prayer, but they reject Popish set fasts, and their mock-fasts, in forbearing flesh of beasts, eggs, milk, butter, yet eating and drinking other food, and drink perhaps more delicious in fulness, as a meer delusion. Protestants teach praying much in spirit with understanding of what they ask with faith, and trust to be heard through the Name of Christ for such good things as God hath promised: but they deride justly Popish praying in Latin by those who understand not what they say, their saying Ave Maries and the Creed for Prayers, their superstitious saying Prayers with Beads by tale, their tying themselves to canonical hours, as more holy than other times, their Prayers for Souls in Purgatory, which is a meer figment, serving onely to affright silly people that they may draw money from them for saying Masses, they detest that most abominable invocating of the Virgin Mary, wherein she is extolled as Authour of Grace, Mother of Mercy, having authority over or upon Christ, with abundance of wicked Superstitions which are used in Popish devotion to canonized Saints, Crucifixes, a piece of Bread, imagined Relicks of Saints. Protestants press on men true mortificati∣on of the sins of the flesh or deeds of the body by the spirit working hatred of the inward lusts, and forsaking the evil practises of them; but they reject the foolish practises of whipping themselves, tearing the flesh with lying on Briars, as they say Benedict did, tumbling in the Snow, as they say Francis of Assisium did, girding the body with Iron, and lying on the ground, as they say Domi∣nick did, which neither subdue lust, nor the Devils temptations, but are like the acts of Bedlams, and may be, and perhaps are done out of vain-glory and proud conceit of meriting by them. Protestants exhort to good works, but de∣ny the building of Monasteries to be such, for idle Monks, that in stead of working with their hands that they might give to him that needs eat the bread

to the full, which belongs to the needy poor, under pretence of praying, which is no special function. Protestants teach men to be poor in spirit, to bear patiently poverty, when Gods providence allots it; but the voluntary poverty of Monks and Friers they reject as being a curse, or else a meer hypocritical counterfeiting of po∣verty, when they enjoy greatest plenty, and live in fulness, as Monks and Friers usually do, or else a meer madness, as in Anchorites and E••••mites. Protestants teach true chastity in Marriage and single life, but they detest Popish vows of sin∣gle life in Priests, Friers, and Nuns, as superstitious snares, when few of them have the power of continence, and they abhor the terming of the use of the Mar∣riage-bed in Presbyters unchast and unholy, and most of all the hellish Doctrine of those that teach it to be better for Priests to use Concubines than Wives, and tolerate fornication and other unclean lusts when they forbid Marriage, and ex∣communicate, and deprive, and imprison, and persecute Priests and Bishops for it. We Protestants teach obedience to Parents and Magistrates, and all that are over us in the Lord: but abhor the Vow of blinde obedience to Superiours never appointed by God, as slavish, and oft-times mischievous and destructive of the necessary obedience due to Parents, and Governours, whom God hath esta∣blished. All which things being considered, we are fully assured that the Pro∣testants Doctrine in these things is most holy, and the Popish impure, though to men that know not the Scripture it have a shew of wisdom and holiness. Yea, we avouch that there is scarce a Church in the World that is more unho∣ly than the Roman in their maintaining the Worship of Images, which hard∣ens the Jews from Christianity, in their adoration of the Bread they eat as their Maker, which moved Averroes a Mahometan to prefer Philosophers afore Christi∣ans, the infallible Power of the Pope, though a most wicked man by himself, or in a Council of his liking to set down what is to be held in point of Faith, to dissolve Leagues, and break Oaths upbraided by Amurath the great Turk to Christians, to dispense with incestuous Marriages, deny Marriage to Priests, which Pius the second a Pope thought fitter to be restored, forbidding some Meats as unclean at some times, the Cup at the Eucharist, and the ordinary reading of the Bible in their own Language to the Lay-people, directing men to invocate Saints, teaching them to ascribe salvation to their own Merits, making the man of sin the Vicar of Christ, besides what some have taught about deposing and destroying Princes, giving equivocating Answers to Magi∣strates upon Oath, exempting Priests from subjection to Princes, allowing the breach of faith to those they judge Hereticks, making cursing Parents in passi∣on, and other horrid evils venial sins, allowing great crimes upon the probable opinion of one Doctor, killing a man to vindicate honour, and such other most odious resolutions of cases of conscience of the late Jesuits, which the more sober and honest Jansenist in his late Book of the Mystery of Jesuitisme, hath discovered; in which there may be found such a Nest of most stinking Doctrines vented by Jesuits, as honest moral Infidels by the light of nature did detest, and from their Doctrines we may truly infer, that Rome as now it is, is indeed the Mother of harlots, and abominations of the earth. On the other side, though Protestants are not without Errours, yet in the main matters, especially in the Doctrines of the Gospel, and holiness and righteousness of life their Do∣ctrine shines more bright than ever it did in any Church since the Age follow∣ing the Apostles unto this day.

SECT. V.

The devotion of Romanists shews not the holiness of the Roman Church, it be∣ing for the most part will-worship and pharisaical hypocrisie.

H. T. goes on thus, Her Churches are open and Divine Service said not onely on all Sundays and Holy-days, but every day in the week, and that the greatest part in the forenoon. There is five times more preaching and catechizing, and ten times more fasting and praying in the Catholick Church than in the Protestant; her Sacraments are more, and more frequented, and in stead of an innumerable multitude of religious men and women that are in the Catho∣lick Church, who have freely forsaken all things to follow Christ, and totally relinquished the riches, pleasures, and preferments of this life to serve him in the remainder of their days in vows and practises of holy poverty, obedience, and chastity, Protestants have an innumerable company of Sects and Sect-ma∣sters that daily spring out of their stock, such as are continually broaching new Heresies, and always at defiance one with another.

Answ THe Popish devotion is so far from proving the holiness of the Roman Church falsly and most impudently termed the Catholick Church, that it rather proves them a Synagogue of Satan than a Church of Christ. Their Churches as they term them, stand open, but that which is to be seen or heard in them is more like the Temples of Pagan gods than Christian Assem∣blies. In the primitive times Christians had no Images in their places of meeting, but Popish Temples are full of Images and Pictures, and the service to them like the Pagans to their Idols, bowing down to them, burning Incense before them, offering gifts to them, lifting up and adoring a piece of Bread, with a great deal of outward pomp of Lights, Garments, garnishing of the house, attendance of Officers, suiting better to womanish and childish persons than holy spiritual Christians. Their Mass, which is that they glory in, is no∣thing like the Institution of Christ, nor used to that end for which he appoint∣ed his last Supper to be continued, but a meer shew with many ridiculous ge∣stures, motions, actions, with Lamps burning in the day, Copes and Gar∣ments in imitation of the Jews, which make it unlike the primitive simplicity of Christians, which was without them many hundreds of years. Their many Holy days were justly heretofore complained of as a great grievance to people, and it is a great happiness to be freed from them all, as begetting idle∣ness, luxury, and penury, the Lord's Day excepted, which is no where among them observed as a Day set apart for God, and spent in Prayer, Hearing, Reading the Word of God to the edification of the people, and such other Duties of Religion as God hath prescribed, but after some time spent in hearing Mass, and Even-song, the rest of the day is spent in feasting, sporting, and in many places in such worldly affairs, as shew little minding of God or any heavenly affections. Their Churches are open in the week days upon an ignorant and superstitious conceit, as if God would hear them there by reason of the conse∣cration of the place, or the Relicks of some Saint, or some other fond imagi∣nation which their Priests, or ancestours instill into them, and therefore they

say there their Ave-Maries and Pater-nosters by tale, without understanding or attention to what they say or do, or to God, but observing onely their gestures after their manner, stay out their time without learning any thing which may improve them in Christian knowledge, but in their houses in the mean time cal∣ling upon God with understanding and feeling of their wants, the reading of holy Scriptures is neglected, and many other Duties which should be done are omitted, and which is worst of all much wantonness and other evils occasioned (if credible persons say true) and cloked by the often repair of persons to their Churches. That there is more Preaching and Catechizing among Papists than among Protestants is strange news to me, nor do I think any London Merchant or other person who hath travelled into Italy or Spain will believe it. What now is done I cannot speak of mine own knowledge, as having not travelled in∣to those Countreys; but what I finde in Authours whom I have great cause to believe, makes me, who have known London, Oxford, Bristol, Worcester, and other parts of England, and their Preaching and Catechizing, conceive, that H. T. tells here a manifest untruth. However it is easie to discern by reading the Sermons and Catechisms of both, which are printed, that their preaching and catechizing, how often soever it be in respect of Gospel doctrine, spiritual truths and holy directions comes as short of the English Protestant Preachers Sermons and Catechizing as Lead or Dross doth of Gold. When Drury preached at Black-Frier•• his Sermons were of Popish Penance, and such like superstitious points of Popery. The History of the Quarrels between Pope Paul the fifth and the Common-wealth of Venice by Frier Paul tells us, that it was found in the Rules of the Jesuits when they were expelled out of Venice, that this was out of their Instructions to be very ••paring in preaching of the free grace of God, and the relation of their Doctines in the Book of the Mystery of Jesuitism published by a Jansenist, shews what kinde of Doctrine the Jesuites now the popular Preachers instill into the people of France. Their fasting and praying, if it be such as their Casuists describe, is a nullity or a mockery, that which they call fasting being onely a change of food, sometimes such as a Glutton would choose to please his appetite, and differring a Meal for some hours, which is no fasting, and their praying no ascending of the minde to God, or making known their requests to him, but saying words many of them that contain no Petitions, like Parrots without understanding, and in a great part calling upon deceased Saints and Angels. The multitude of their Sacraments shews the grosness of their ignorance and greatness of their Superstition, Ma∣trimony being no Sacrament of the new Law given to Christians for the san∣ctifying of them, but an Institution of God before the Fal•• of Adam, com∣mon to all mankinde for the lawfull propagating thereof, Unction being no or∣dinary Rite for sanctification, but a sign of a special gift of healing, Penance is no special Sacrament, but the common Duty of all men, Auricular Con∣fession is an unjust Imposition, Priests authoritative judicial Absolution is a meer Delusion, Confirmation is either a fond imitation of the Apostles act in giving the holy Ghost, or else is in its genuine use an Appendix to Baptism. Orders is a Rite proper to the Clergy, as it is termed. The Eucharist and Ba∣ptism are indeed holy Ordinances of Christ, not to give grace by the work done, but by the one to testifie our profession, the other our remembrance of his Death: neither name nor thing of Sacrament, as Papists define it is from

Scripture, nor is any thing almost right in Papists doctrine or use of these rites, but their use of them is almost quite changed into another thing then what Christ instituted, and therefore the more they are frequented, the lesse is there of true Religion and the more of vain superstition. There's far better administration of the Lords Supper among the Protestants, who use it after Christs institution to remember his death: not as Papists for a propitiatory sacrifice for quick and dead with addition of many histrionical mimical inven∣tions of men, and mangling it by the half in keeping the cup from the laity, and making a private Masse of a communion. Baptism is better administred without addition of oil, cream, and spittle, and Ephphatha, and such toyes as Papists use. Ordination is better used by Protestants who ordain Preachers of the Gospel, not sacrificing Priests. And yet in these and in other matters some things may be better'd, which through the great aberration from the pri∣mitive institution remain yet to be amended. As for the multitude of religious men and women as he calls them, not only the relations of Protestants, but al∣so of Popish writers give us cause to think there's little of religion or morality in them except gluttony, idlenesse, whoredom, and other lewdness be religion. The common proverb makes a Frier a lyer. If they freely forsake any thing it is not to follow Christ, but Bennet, Francis, Dominick, Bruno, Ignatius and such like hypocrites, by following whom there is more reason to judge they for∣sake Christ, then by adhering to their rules to adhere to Christ, there being none more malicious and bitter and cruel enemies to the sincere preaching and profession of the Gospel then Friers, Monks, Nunnes, and especially the dam∣ned crew of Jesuits, who have been within one hundred years and somewhat more authors of more bloody warrs, massacres, cruel persecutions, treasons, murthers and other hellish villanies then ever such a number of men besides were guilty of since the world stood. Is any man of such a sottish spirit as to believe that these men have relinquished the riches, pleasures and preferments of this life to serve Christ the remainder of their lives, who knows what goodly structures they live in, what full tables they have, what great revenues they are inriched with? will any man that views the very ruins of Abbys, Nunneries, Priories and other houses, which they termed religious here in England, that reads the catalogue of their revenues at the end of Speeds Chronicle judge these re∣linquished the riches of this life? Are the Monastery of St. Laurence in Castile, the Colledge of La Flech in France, with innumerable more in those countries, and in Germany, Italy, &c. Cottages for poor Almesmen? what an arrant gullery and cheat is this of this frontlesse scribler to perswade English people, that their votaries have relinquished all riches when they possesse revenues in some countries equal to Kings and Princes, fair Palaces, full tables, good cloathing, great attendance, large command of tenants with furniture and pro∣vision of all sorts of things commodious for this life in their convents? And to say they serve Christ when all the world knows the Monks serve none but their own bellies, and the Jesuits are true to none but the Catholick Bishop and Catholick King, who may perhaps in time finde them as pernicious to themselves as they are to other Princes and States, what a monstrous fiction is it? their vows and practises are not of true but counterfeit poverty, and if it were voluntary poverty indeed which they make shew of, it would be the more sinful, God no where directing men to cast away their estates, but to use them 〈2 pages missing〉〈2 pages missing〉

John 10 41. Yea Christ himself at some time was restrained from doing mi∣racles, Matth. 13▪ 58. and the Disciples were defective therein, Luk. 9. 40, 41. 6. That there are some wonders which are lying wonders. 7 That these are so like true miracles, that they are very apt to deceive a great part of men. 8. That the Lord permits these to be for trial of men. 9. That he keeps his elect from being seduced by them. 10. That they are bound to heed whereto these miracles tend, and not to follow them that make shew of them if they tend to Idolatry, and to draw us away from Gods expresse commands and truths re∣vealed in the Scripture. Out of all which I infer, that without examination of the doctrine by the Scripture we are not meerly upon the pretence of miracles to judge men to be true teachers and true Churches, (except they should be so many, great, frequent, open, as Christ and his Apostles were, for I count that speech of Bellarm. lib. 4. de notis Eccles. c. 14. impious that before the appro∣bation of the Church it is not certain with the certainty of faith whether any mi∣racle be true, which if true till the Church approved them there had been no certainty of faith that Christs or his Apostles miracles were true) and therefore miracles are not a sufficient note of a true Church.

SECT. VII.

The Popish pretended miracles prove not the truth of their Church, nor the mi∣racles related by some of the Fathers.

But H. T. taking his Major, as to the power of miracles, sufficiently proved pro∣ceeds thus. The Minor is proved by these ensuing undeniable testimonies. First, Protestants and other Sectaries pretend that miracles have ceased ever since Christ and his Apostles time, because they and their Sectmasters have never yet been able to do any, a sure conviction that they want this mark.

Answ. 1. PRotestants do not pretend that all working of miracles is ceased since the Apostles time, but such frequent working of miracles as was in the Apostles time. 2. That they do not for the reason which this author allegeth say so, but because the truth is so, and if they have not been able to do any, no more have the Papists; if they could they would do them to convince the Sectaries (as he terms us) sith signs are not for them to believe, but for them that believe not, 1 Cor. 14. 22. And therefore if Papists could do any miracles, surely they would do them openly to convince the hereticks who deny their Popes and Churches infallibility, of which surely we are all such infidels, as that without miracles done by Popes and the Preachers of his vicarship we shall never be brought to believe it. But they choose rather to cheat foolish Papists with counterfeit tricks, as of the boy of Bilson, Garnets straw and such like devices, then to let any understanding Protestants have any sight of them, who would discover their knavery.

But H. T. tells us. Secondly, histories (as well of enemies as friends) have recorded many famous miracles in all ages wrought by the Catholick Church. The Magdeburgian Centurists, although Protestants (such is evidence and force of

truth) have recorded many great miracles done by Catholicks in their 13. c. of every century for one thousand three hundred years together after Christ. St. Francis of Assisium fifteen dayes before his death had wounds freshly bleeding in his hands, feet and side, such as Christ had on the Cross, and this by miracle, Mat. Paris p. 319. One Paul Form having stoln two cons••crated hosts out of a Church sold one of them to the Jews, who out of malice and contempt stab'd it, saying; If thou be the God of Christians manifest thy self, whereupon blood issued out of the host, for which fact thirty eight of them were burnt at Knoblock in Brandenburg, and all the rest of the Jews were banished out of that Mar∣quisate. This is recorded by Pontianus in his fifth book of memorable things, and by John Mandevil a Protestant in his book de locis communibus p. 87. as also by Osiander Epist. 116. p. 28.

Answ. 1. The Magdeburgian Centurists have indeed in their several cen∣turies one chapter of marvellous things, but many of them are such as were wrought immediately by divine providence and are liable to various constru∣ctions, few of them, done by men in testimony of the truth of any religion, doctrine or Church, and fewer yet of any certain credit. 2. There's no rela∣tion of any of them that are said to be done as wrought by the Catholick Church, either Roman or properly so called, however there be some related as done by persons of the Catholick Church, who are more justly to be accounted Protestants in respect of the doctrine they taught then Papists, whom they falsly call Catholicks. 3. It is not denied that Socrates l. 7. hist. c. 17. men∣tions a miracle of Paul a Novatian Bishop, and Augustin. tract. 13. on John, and de unit. Eccles. c. 16. denies not, that the Donatists alleged miracles, and he calls them by contempt Mirabiliarios, and judged that the Church was to be judged by Scripture and the miracles by the Church, as Bellarm▪ confesseth de notis Eccl. l. 4. c. 14. 4. Those that are said to be done by persons of the Catholick Church for the first five hundred years, were not done by persons that held the now Romish doctrine or in confirmation of it or the verity of the now Roman Church. 5. All the rest in all the ages following are of none or very small credit. Gregory the great is himself judged by Romanists to have been too credulous of tales, those Dialogues which are said to be his (in which are related some of the miracles which the Papists rely on) being either none of his or shewing too much credulity in him: the rest of the miracles in the legends are so ridiculous fopperies, as even discreet Papists themselves have dis∣credited. Dr. Rainold Conf. with Hart ch. 8. divis. 2. allegeth Canus as in general excepting against the reports of miracles even by grave, ancient, learned holy Fathers, loc. Theol. l. 11. c. 6. and particularly against Gregories Dia∣logues, and Bedes history, and the very Portesse as having uncertain, forged, false and frivolous things in them about Francis and Dominick, and he shews that Pope Gelasius and a council of seventy Bishops with him condemned many false stories which were rehearsed in the Roman Portesses, if Espencaeus Comment. in 2. Epist. ad Tim. c. 4. digress. 21. be to be believed. The two pretended miracles which this Author hath chosen for instance have nothing like divine miracles or truth. The miracles of Christ and his Apostles were such as were done openly in the sight of all so as they could not be denied, but even adver∣saries confessed them, these were things only in private, so as that there might be some device used to delude the sight, or might be fancied to be so by some

doating persons, or might be by the illusion of Satan, which is not improbable to have been used in them, there being great cause to conceive, that in those dayes of darknesse by seeming wonders, apparitions, visions, prophecies, Satan promoted the worship of Saints, especially of the Virgin Mary, the opinion of purgatory, prayer for the dead, worship of reliques, by which Idolatry and su∣perstition grew among Christians about and after the time of the second Nicen•• Synod. Nor is there any likelihood that the wounds of Francis should ap∣pear fifteen dayes afore death, in which time he was likely covered, and not after his death, in which his body being naked they might have been more vi∣sible, were not the time afore death more convenient for the imposture. And the like may be said of the other tale. What likelihood is there that a man should venture his life to steale two pieces of bread, or little water cakes, or that a Jew should buy one, or do such an act before witnesses, which would bring so much evil on him? the thing seems more likely to have been a devised tale to pick a quarrel with the Jews, as it was in those dayes usual for a pretence to get their goods as it had been done to the Templars. Sure there was no justice to burn thirty eight for the fact of one, much lesse to banish all Jews thence. And why was nothing done to Paul Form? either it was therefore a mee•• fiction, like one of those in Sir John Mandevils travailes, or else a device to sti•• up rage against the Jews, that they might prey on their goods. 6. Were it yeilded (as it is not) that there was truth in these relations, yet the most that can be collected is, that God would vindicate Francis from some ill opinions or reports of him, not that he might be extolled, as Horatius Turselin in his blasphemous Epigram did, as if he were comparable with Christ, or that either the Popes supremacy or the order of Friers, or the verity of the doctrine of the Roman Church then, much lesse the truth of the present Roman Church should be confirmed. Nor, if the other accident were true, doth it follow, that God would thereby confirm the opinion of transubstantiation, but the verity of Christs being the Son of God, and we may more justly answer concerning i••, then Bellarmin doth concerning the miracle of the Novatian Bishop, that it was done, not to confirm the Novatian faith, but Catholick baptism, so the other was done, not to confirm the Popish opinion of transubstantiation, but the Christian doctrine of the man Christ his being the Son of God.

H. T. adds, notwithstanding this confession of adversaries, I will also all some Fathers, of whose relations of miracles it is not worth while to consider whether they were true or not, there being not one of them that proves this point, that the Church which wants miracles is not the true Church, or that the present Roman doctrine or Church are the true doctrine or Church. That which Cyprian and Optatus relate, if true, did only vindicate the Lords Supper from contempt, that of Gregory Thaumaturgus, whether it were so or onely a re∣port (of which good men were sometimes too credulous) it proves not the truth of the Roman Church, but rather, if any, of the Greek Church which owned not the Popes supremacy, nor their doctrines in that age. Much less is that which he brings out of Chrysostom concerning the reliques of Babylas for his purpose, sith it is expresly said to have proved against infidels that Christ was the Son of God, and the Idols of the Gentiles were vain things, which no more proves the truth of the Roman then of the Protestant Churches, nor so much as of the Greek Churches who hold the same. That of Ambrose concerning his bro∣ther

Satyrus proves not transubstantiation, but rather the contrary, sith Satyrus adored not the Eucharist, when he kept it, and that he did keep him from drowning was but a conjecture, nor is it proved that God by that accident approved his superstition, though he might reward his faith and love, of which that was a sign. What Augustin l. 22. de civit. Dei c. 8. writes of things done in his time are not undoubted, sith some of them are related upon the re∣port of one or more not very judicious, who might enlarge things beyond truth, esp••cially when the custome was of reading the relations to the people, and they were pressed in conscience to divulge them, as there Augustin saith was done by him, and it seemed so much for advantage of Christian Religion; some of them might be by medicines working beyond expectation though attributed, as the fashion is, to that which was last used; some of them perhaps fell out ac∣cording to the course of such diseases, as are said to be cured; that of the heal∣ing of two Cappadocians hath too much suspicion of counterfeiting, and Au∣gustin himself, though he relates somethings of his own knowledge, yet makes none of them like the miracles of Christ and his Apostles, which were more frequent and open and manifest in the presence of the adversaries, as the raising of Lazarus and many more were, and therefore he allegeth them for the stopping of their mouths, who called for miracles, rather then for any evident proof of religion, using this very preface in the beginning of the Chapter, Why, say they, are not those miracles now done which ye say have been done? I may say indeed they were necessary before the world should believe for this that the world might believe. Whosoever as yet seeks after prodigies, that he may believe, is him∣self a great prodigy, who the world believing, believes not. But whatever be to be thought of the relations of Augustin in that place, certain it is that Au∣gustin, ch. 9, 10. useth them not to give testimony to the confirmation either of the truth of the Roman Church or any of their doctrines, nor for the wor∣shipping of Stephen the Martyr, or any other of the Saints, but only to prove the resurrection of Christ, to which they in their death gave testimony, and therefore are all impertinent to the purpose of H. T. to prove the verity of the Roman Church by them.

SECT. VIII.

The objections against the proof of the verity of the Roman Church from the po∣wer of miracles are not solved by H. T.

But H. T. takes on him to answer objections thus. Ob. Miracles have ceased ever since Christ and his Apostles. Answ. You contradict the plain promises of Christ made to his Church without limitation, as also the histories and re∣cords of all Christendom.

I Reply, 1. The objection is not as H. T. frameth it, but that so frequent and manifest working of miracles as was in the days of Christ and his A∣postles, and which may be a note of the true Church or doctrine without con∣sonancy to the Scripture hath ceased, and therefore by this mark of it self the Roman Church is not proved to be the true Church. 2. The contradictory to

this is not proved by Christs promises or the Churches records For, 1. The Promises, John 14. 10. Mark. 16. 17. are indefinite in respect of persons and time, and an indefinite proposition is true in a contingent matter, if verified but of some at some times, and therefore these promises may be true of some be∣lievers onely, and of the time wherein the Apostles lived, and consequently by the promises it cannot be proved that there must be a power of working mira∣cles in the Church in every age. 2. That they cannot be understood of any age after the Apostles unto this day is manifest, because they are not true of any age after that. For however some miracles have been done, yet not greater then Christ did, which is promised, John 14. 10. nor was the speaking with new tongues which is promised Mark. 16. 17. in any age, but that in which the Apostles lived. 3. These promises are as much made to believers in other Churches as the Roman, but now they grant there's no power of Miracles in any other Church, and therefore they must yield to understand the words with such a limitation as may make the Proposition true, though there be no power of Miracles in the Roman Church. 4. There's no promise of the power of Miracles to confirm the truth of the Roman Church, nor of any other point but the Christian faith, and therefore none of the Miracles done by virtue of those promises prove the truth of the now Roman Church or Doctrine, but onely the true faith, which is believed by Protestants, who believe the Creed as well as Papists. As for the Records, there are very few of them of any certainty after the Apostles days, and Popish Writers themselves do confess, that not onely in their Legends, but also in their Liturgies, fabulous things have crept; so that by saying Miracles are altogether now ceased, or else are very rare, and are unfit to demonstrate the verity of any present Church, is no contradicting Christ's promises, or any good Records of Christen∣dom.

H. T. adds. Object. Signs and Miracles were given to Unbelievers not to Believers, therefore they are now unnecessary. Answ. No, they are not, for they very much confirm the immediate care and providence of God over his Church, they excellently demonstrate his omnipotence, and there be many disbelievers still, the more is the pity.

I reply, that Tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, is the Apostles saying, 1 Cor. 14. 22. not for them that believe; and there is the same reason of other Miracles; and therefore is this justly urged by Protestants, that to believers to prove the truth of Christian Doctrine or of the Christian Church Miracles are unnecessary. Now the Answer of H. T. is quite from the point, when he tells us that they are necessary for other ends. And yet it is not true, that Signs and Miracles are necessary to confirm the immediate care and provi∣dence of God over his Church, sith God doth by his ordinary provision either of Teachers, or Christian Princes shew his immediate care and providence over his Church, and by his daily works of the motion of the Sun, and other acts of governing the World demonstrates his omnipotence: nor by his Miracles and Signs hath he shewed so much his immediate care and providence over his Church for the guiding and protecting of them, as his care of unbelievers by bringing them into his Church. And it is true, that there are many dis-be∣lievers still, the more's the pity, and if God did see it good it would be a blessed hing if he did vouchsafe the gift of doing Miracles to convert the Indians

Moors, Tartars, to the faith of Christ, and we wish it were true which the Je∣suits boast of Francis Xavier his Miracles in the East Indies, though Fran∣ciscus a victoria relect. 5. Sect. 2. and Josephus Acosta lib. 4. de Indorum salute cap. 4. 12, Blab out that which gives us cause to think that the Relations are but feigned things tending to magnifie the Pope and the Jesuits, there being no such evidence of those things from any persons of credit, who have traded or travelled into those parts. But be they what they will, it is certain God never intended Miracles to prove the Popes Supremacy or the verity of the Roman Church, but the Christian faith, and therefore till both or either of them be proved from Scripture, if we be disbelievers we must be disbelievers still, knowing this, that if there should be never so great Miracles in shew done by Popes or Friers, yet we are bound not to believe them without proof of their Doctrine from Scripture, and that if any though an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel than that which is written, he is to be held accursed, Gal. 1. 8, 9. And that Miracles are not necessary for proving our calling while we preach the Scripture-doctrine, as Bellarmine scribles lib. 4. de not is Eccles. cap. 14. But on the other side, if Papists do not stick onely to Scripture, nor will be tri∣ed by it, it is necessary they should produce Miracles of their Popes and Pre∣lates to verifie their claim or new Gospel, of which they are altogether desti••••te, and have nothing to allege but a company of Fables concerning some foolish Friers, such as Francis, Dominick, &c. upon the report of silly superstitious Women and doting companions of them, or some jugling tricks in corners done by cheating Priests and Jesuits, which serve for no other purpose but to prove the Priests to be Knaves, and their Popish Proselytes that believe them to be fools. And we have cause to press them as in the next Objection, Why do not then your Priests do Miracles? we would be glad to see some of their doing. To which H. T. saith, Answ. Because of your incredulity as our Saviour told she Jews, St. Matth. 17. 19 Yet they do many in Gods appointed time and place (as the Records of the Church will testifie) though not to satisfie your sinfull curiosity. See Francis a Sancta Clara in his Paralipomena, who recounts many great and evident Miracles. I reply, if our incredulity be the onely rea∣son of their not doing them among us, yet me thinks they should do them in Italy and Spain where men have ••aith in them: But except of a few tales of Philip Nerius, Ignatius Loyala, Francisca Teresa, Isidore of Madrid an Hus∣bandman, and some other late canonized Saints long after their death sworn by some admirers of them, or credulous receivers of reports concerning things of them not openly done and commonly known as the Miracles of Christ and his Apostles were, I hear of none. The Paralipomena of Franciscus a Sancta Clara or Davenport, who endeavoured to reconcile the nine and thirty Articles of the Church of England with the Doctrine of the Church of Rome, that is, Light with Darkness, a little afore these Wars, I never saw, nor do I expect to finde any thing from such a man but fraud and falshood, who had the face to endeavour to draw the Articles purposely framed against the Popish Doctrine to a sense consistent with it. What Justus Lipsius writ of the Miracles done by the Idol at Halles, and Zichem, Turselin of the Chapel at Lauretto, and such like Relations, there is no man that heeds the Scripture will give any credit to them, but take them either as fictions or illusions of Satan to confirm men in the idolatrous Worship of the Virgin Mary, and to promote the Priests gain,

which is a great part of the Roman Religion. But the frequent Impostures of Papists in this kinde, as of the Blood of Christ at the Abby of Hales, that of Boxley Abby, and the holy Maid of Kent, related by Speed in his Chronicle of Henry the eighth, at Orleans by Gray Friers related by Sleidan, Com. lib. 9. at Bruxels related by Meteran, lib. 10. hist. Belg. that of the Boy of Bilson near Wolverhampton in Stafford-shire which is related in a Book of that thing and persons yet alive can testifie of the Priests deceit in it, with many more, give just cause to discredit all such Narrations as meer jugling tricks. Nor have the Legends of Saints, which this man calls the Records of the Church any better credit with the more ingenuous of their own Church, of whom though some mince the matter, calling them Pious Frauds, as if Piety might be upheld by Lyes, yet Ludovicus Vives freely censured those that made them to have had a Brasen forehead, and those that believed them a Leaden heart. And therefore it is the more necessary for their Priests to let us see their Miracles, not to satisfie our curiosity, but our consciences, if they will have us con∣verted from disbelief in their Lord God the Pope, (as in the Canon Law be is termed) there being nothing in the Scripture to prove the Roman Churches verity or infallibility, or the Popes Supremacy, as will appear by examining the seventh Article, to which I now hasten, which is intituled, The Popes Su∣premacy asserted.