Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter.

SECT. II.

Protestants are not proved to be Sectaries by the first beginning of Reformation.

The Argument, saith H. T. All such as are wilfully divided both from the Doctrine and Discipline of the Catholick Church are Schismaticks and Here∣ticks, and consequently in a damnable state. But most Protestants and other Sectaries are wilfully divided both from the Doctrine and Discipline of the Catholick Church. Therefore they are Schismaticks and Hereticks, and con∣sequently in a damnable state. The Major is manifest out of the very notion and definition of Schism and Heresie: The sequel of it proved thus by Scri∣ture, Titus 3. 10. 2 Peter 2. 1. Jude 13. Rom. 16. 17. Matth. 18. 7, 17, 18. 2 Thess. 3. 14.

Answ. 1. BY denying his Definition to be good, and that any of the Texts prove it. 2. By granting the Sequel of them that are truly termed Schismaticks and Hereticks, but not of such as he calls such, to wit, that do wilfully divide from the Doctrine and Discipline of the now

Roman Church falsly by him called Catholick. There is no need of exa∣mining each Text till they are shewed to prove what is denied.

The Minor, saith he, is proved, because Luther and his fellow Protestants di∣vided themselves from the Communion of all Churches, therefore from the Com∣munion of the Catholick Church, and that as well in Points of Doctrine as matters of Government, as plainly appears by all we have said, and is yet con∣firmed, because when they began their Separation Luther in Germany, Tyndal in England, &c. the Catholick Church was in most quiet possession of her Te∣nets, in perfect peace and unity, her Doctrine and Government being the same they had been, not onely to the time of Gregory the Great (as Protestants con∣fess) but to the very time of the Apostles, as is manifest both by the publick Li∣turgies, Councils, and Records of all Ages, in which no one Doctrine of Faith, or substantial Point of Discipline, then professed by the Roman Catholick Church, and opposed by Protestants, had ever been censured and condemned as heretical or schismatical, but all for the most part actually defined and established against ancient Hereticks, as you have seen in the Councils.

Answ. 1. The Minor speaks of most Protestants, but mentions none but Luther and his fellow Protestants, and Tyndal in England: now it is no good proof against us, that we are Schismaticks, because Luther and his fellow Pro∣testants were so, and Tyndal began Separation in England. It is told them by C••illingworth c. 5. p 1. against Knot, that there may be an unjust Separation begun, and so a Schism in the Leaders, and yet no Schism in the Followers in after Ages; as in a Common-wealth it may be a Sedition and Rebellion to set up ano∣ther Government and Governour in the first Authours, and yet none in the Po∣sterity to continue them, but rather their duty to maintain them in order to the peace and liberty which was unjustly obtained at first. 2. It is denied that Luther or Tyndal divided themselves wilfully, that is, without necessity. It is known in the History of Sleidan, and others, that Luther at first spake ho∣nourably of the Pope, and was willing to have continued in communion with the Roman Church till Leo the tenth did by his Bull condemn his Doctrine, afore he had heard him, and he saw plainly (as the World found by experience) that the Popes and Court of Rome did never by good proofs out of Scripture go about to refute them, but by Excommunications, Fire, and War, (to which Emperours and Kings were stirred up by them) endeavour to root them out. And for Tyndal it is manifest by the Book of Acts and Monuments of the Church written by Mr. Fox in the Reign of Henry the eighth, that Tyndal was persecuted by the Popish Bishops, and his body burnt in Brabant. Now sure were the Protestants never so erroneous, yet the Law of Nature ties them to run away from such cruel Wolves, as in stead of teaching them with love, en∣deavour to destroy them with cruelty. 3. It is most false, that Luther and his Fel∣lows divided themselvs from the communion of all Churches: It is certain, that they actually joyned with the remainder of the Hussites in Bohomia, and the Wal∣denses about the Alpes, who were true Churches of Christ, however the Romanists term them: nor did they ever renounce communion with the Greek. Eastern or Southern Churches, though by reason of distance, and the Power they were under, they could not have actual communion with them. And by their desire of a free Council in Germany not called by the Pope, but the Emperour and Christian Princes, nor of Bishops sworn to the Pope, but of men that were

equal Judges by whom their Doctrine might be examined, and by their often Colloquies for Reconciliation they plainly shewed, that they tried all means they could with a good conscience to have prevented the breach between them, and the Popish party, who were certainly the cause of the Schism, and truly the Schismaticks (as may be gathered from their own stories, such as Thuanus, Frier Paul's History of the Trent Council. and others, who relate the proceed∣ings of those times) and not the Protestants. 4. It is most false, that they separated from the Catholick Church in point of Doctrine. It is most cer∣tain, that the party from whom the Protestants separated had relinquished the Catholick Doctrine of the Scripture, and Primitive times for five hundred years at least, and had brought in a new upstart Doctrine of Invocation of Saints, worshiping Images, Transubstantiation, half-communion as suffi∣cient, denial of Priest's Marriage, Popes universal Monarchy, Purgatory-fire, Indulgences, Sacrifice of the Mass, Justification by Works, and many more, which were unknown to the first Christians, nor hath the contrary appeared by any thing H. T. hath said before, as the Reader of this Answer may perceive. 5. It is most false, that they separated from the Catholick Church in the point of her Government. The Government of the whole Church by one universal Bishop was never the Government of the Catholick Church. It is manifest by the first general Councils that the Pope of Rome was not acknowledged supe∣riour to other Patriarchs, and the Greek Churches have always resisted his claim of Supremacy, and many, as Nilus Arch-bishop of Thessalonica, Bar∣liam and others have written against it as an unjust claim. 6. It is false, that the Roman Church (falsly by H. T. called Catholick) was in most quiet possession of her Tenets, when Luther began his Separation in Germany, Tyndal in England. It is manifest by Cochlaeus his History of the Hussites, that there were a remnant of them in Bohemia, by Thuanus and Mr. Morland that there was a remnant of the Waldenses in the Valleys of the Alpes, by Mr. Fox that there was a remnant of Lollards or Wictevists in England, who did reject the Roman Doctrine then and since taught, in many, if not all the points, in which Protestants do now oppose it. 7. It is false, that the Roman Church was in perfect peace and unity when Luther and Tyndal began their Separation. For the controversies about the Virgin Marie's immaculate Con∣ception, about the Popes Supremacy above a Council, and sundry other were rather suppressed than composed, as the event shewed, no party relinquishing the holding their Tenets to this day, but each when occasion is offered contending for their way. 8. It is false, that the Doctrines and Government of the Ro∣man Church had been the same from that time Luther and Tyndal began their Separation to the time of Gregory the Great, or that Protestants do confess it. It is most certain to the contrary, that since Gregory the Great his time the Popes universal Episcopacy, the Worship of Images, Transubstantiation, half-Communion in the Eucharist, and many other points were brought into the Roman Church, as Bishop Morton in his Appeal from Brereley's Apology to King James hath proved. 9 It is also most false, that their Doctrine and Govern∣ment were the same 〈◊〉〈◊〉 now they are to the times of the Apostles. The con∣trary is proved out of the Epistle to the Romans, by Bishop Robert Abbot against D••ctor Bishop, and by Bishop Jewel against Harding out of the Fa∣thers. 10. It is false which H. T. saith, It is manifest both by the publick Li∣turgies,

Councils, and Records of all Ages, no one Doctrine of Faith, or sub∣stantial Point of Doctrine professed then when Luther and Tyndal began their Separation by the Roman Church, and opposed by Protestants had ever been cen∣sured and condemned as heretical or schismatical, but all for the most part actually defined and established against ancient Hereticks, as may be seen in the Councils. The contrary is most manifest, that the Council of Chalcedon and of Car∣thage, in which Augustine was present, opposed the Popes Supremacy as schis∣matical, that the Synod of Frankford opposed the worshiping of Images as heretical, besides many other, as hath been shewed in answer to what H. T. here allegeth.