Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter.

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Title
Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter.
Author
Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.
Publication
London :: printed by Henry Hills, and are to be sold by Jane Underhill, and Henry Mourtlock in Paul's Church-yard,
1660.
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Subject terms
Turberville, Henry, d. 1678. -- Manuel of controversies.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A94737.0001.001
Cite this Item
"Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A94737.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 13, 2025.

Pages

SECT. I.

The deceit of H. T. is shewed in asserting an Infallibility and Judicature of Controversies in the Church, which he means of the Pope▪

H. T. entitles his fifth Article thus, The churches infallibility demonstrated, and saith, Our Tenet is, that the Roman catholick church is the highest visible Judge of controversies, and that she is infallible both in her Propositions and Definiti∣ons of all points of faith; having a power from God to oblige all men to believe her under pain of damnation. And six pages after p. 70. he saith thus, Note here for your better understanding this whole Question, that when we affirm, the Church is infallible in things of faith, by the word [Church] we under∣stand not onely the Church diffused over all the World, unanimously teaching, whose Doctrine of Faith we hold to be infallible, but also the Church represent∣ed in a Council perfectly oecumenical, (that is to say, called out of the whole world, and approved by the Pope) whose Definitions of Faith we hold to be infallible.

Ans. WE have here a most arrogant proud claim like that of the King of Tyrus, Ezek. 28. 2, 3. I am God, I sit in the seat of God, there is no secret that they can hide from me. For what is this less which is here ascribed to meer men, often the worst of men, than the prerogative of the Son of God: surely it's more than Angels have, Job 4. 18:

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But though this Author is bold enough in the title and tenet, yet in his after note he hath such subterfuges as shew his despair of making it good, and his deceitful mockage of his unwary reader. For, 1. He deals like a sophister that after his arguments states the question. 2. He doth so shift off this in∣fallibility from one to another, that he knows not well where to fix it. Fain he would fasten it on the Pope, as he doth in a manner at last; and Hart more plainly confesseth with Rainold, ch. 7. divis. 7. though it behove the Pope to use the advise of his brethren; and therefore I spake of Confistories, Courts and Councils; yet whether he follow their advise or no his decrees are true. But then the arguments from Scripture and Fathers which speak of the church, not of the Pope, had appeared to be impertinent. Therefore he doth not in plain words disclaim it's infallibility; but saith, When we affirm the church is infalli∣ble in things of faith, by the word [church] we understand not only the church diffused over all the world unanimously teaching, whose doctrines of faith we hold to be infallible. Wherein you may perceive. 1. Egregious vanity, in making the Roman church Catholick. 2. The Church diffused over all the world teaching. 3. Teaching unanimously, which are all like a sick mans dreams of a golden mountain, there having never been any such thing as this in the world, nor ever is likely to be. 2. Egregious deceit in the terming this church infallible, Judge of controversies, propounding and defining points of faith, having power from God to oblige all men under pain of damnation to believe her: which is meerly to delude silly Papists speaking of the churches power, which they place in the Pope and so draw them into his net. For I would ask this H. T. where or when the Catholick church diffused over the whole world distinct from an oecumenical council did teach, much lesse teach unanimously, or how they know it? he will certainly say, it hath been in councils or the Popes deter∣minations. Why then doth not this Author say plainly, the infallibility and judgement of controversies is not in the Catholick church diffused over the world, according to the meaning of the words (which were indeed to say all believers were infallible) but say, he means not only, which is as if he had said, the Catholick church diffused over the world is infallible, but not it only, when he means it not to be infallible at all: nor doth he deal better in placing it in a council. For. 1. He supposeth such a council perfectly Oecumenical called out of the whole world, as never was nor is likely ever to be. 2. This council he will not have to be infallible without the Popes approbation. 3. He placeth the words [whose definitions of faith we hold to be infallible] so as that a reader may conceive either he means the councils or the Popes definitions. However it is certain he makes the council without the Pope not infallible, so that the Pope hath the negative voice. But indeed this Author or many of his fellows at least hold, that if the Pope himself without a council define any point of faith it must be received; yea Bellarmin saith l. 4. de Pontifice Romano. c. 5. if the Pope should erre in commanding vices or forbidding vertues, the church should be bound to believe vices to be good and vertues to be evil, unless she would sin against conscience. So that however the church be pretended, it is the Pope who is intended, who is masked under the name of the church, but sometimes termed the Pastor of the Church, as if the same person could be relative and correlative too, Pastor and Church both. And this one person (as if all know∣ledge lay in his breast) must be the Judge of all controversies of faith, though

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perhaps an infidel in heart, one of the greatest perverters of the faith of Christ in the world, and the greatest offender, and most justly accused of any in the world, being notoriously and horribly vitious, and maintain manifest sins, (not only erre in doubtful matters, as Bellarmin would seem to limit his speech in his recognition) even these monstrous sins, of breaking oaths and leagues, killing Kings, allowing incestuous marriages, making and worshipping of I∣mages, Yea though he be so unlearned (as it is said of one) as not to under∣stand Grammer, Pope Gregory the great himself understood not Greek, Pope Zachary condemned Bishop Vigilius as an heretick for holding Antipodes, though he be seldome a Divine, for the most part a meer Canonist, whose very decrees, Breves and Bulls shew such grosse ignorance and pervertings of Scrip∣ture, as a graduate in the English Universities would be ashamed of, yet he must be Judge of controversies between the most learned Divines in the world and in the most weighty points of faith. Surely were not Papists either very silly or very Atheistical, or very much bewitched with the Romish sorceries they would never be so sottish as they are to trust to the Popes definitions in points of faith, but of any other most suspect them, especially considering how much respect to their own gain and greatnesse, how little to the good of mens souls is in all their determinations. No marvail though different parties appeal to the Pope, yet neither stand to his sentence, as of old have been seen in sundry points, and as at this day in the late controversies between Jansenists and Molinists in France.

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