Five disputations of church-government and worship by Richard Baxter.

CHAP. VII. Some instances to prove that moderate men will agree upon the foregoing terms. (Book 7)

§. 1. LEST any think that it is a hopeless work that I have motioned, and the parties will not agree upon these terms, I shall shall next prove to you that the godly and moderate of each party, are agreed already (at least the Episcopal and Presbyterians, and I think the rest:) and that its in Practice more then Princi∣ples that we disagree.

§. 2. I. I will begin with the Episcopal Divines, of whom there ate two parties, differing much more from one another, then the one of them doth from the Presbyterians. The ancient Bishops and the moderate of late, did maintain the Validity of Ordination by Presbyters, and own the Reformed Churches that had other, supposing their Episcopacy usefull to the perfection or well being of a Church, but not necessary to the being of it. And this sort of men (who also agree with us in doctrine) we could quickly be re∣conciled with. But of late years there are many Episcopal Di∣vines sprung up, that embracing the Doctrine called Arminianism, do withal deny the Being of the Ministry and Churches that want Prelatical ordination: and with these there is no hope of concord, because they will have it on no other terms then renouncing our Churches and Ministry, and being again ordained by them, and thus coming wholly over to them. These separate from us, and pretend that our Churches have no true Worship (wonderous au∣dacity,) and our Ministers are no true Ministers, and call the Church into private houses (as D. Hide expresly in his [Christ and his Church] in the beginning of the Preface; and many others.) Of whom I spoke before.

§. 3. That the ancient English Bishops that hold to the doctrine of the Church of England, and are peaceable men, are easily

agreed with us, I first prove from the example of Reverend Bi∣shop Hall. In his Peace-maker he hath these words, [Pag. 46, 47, 48, 49. The Divisions of the Church are either General betwixt our Church and the other Reformed; or special with those within the bosome of our own Church; both which require several considera∣tions. For the former, blessed be God, there is no difference in any essen∣tial matter betwixt the Church of England and her Sisters of the Reformation: We accord in every point of Christian Doctrine with∣out least the variation. (N B.) Their publike Confessions and ours, are sufficient convictions to the world, of our full and absolute agree∣ment; the only difference is in the form of outward administration: Wherein also we are so far agreed, as that we all profess this form not to be essential to the being of a Church (N. B.) though much importing the well or better being of it, according to our several apprehensions thereof; and that we do all retain a reverent and loving opinion of each other in our own several wayes: not seeing any reason why so poor a diversity should work any alienation of af∣fection in us, one towards another: But withall, nothing hinders but that we may come yet closer to one another, if both may resolve to meet in that Primitive Government (whereby it is meet we should both be regulated) universally agreed on by all antiquity; wherein all things were ordered and transacted by the Consent of the Presby∣terie, moderated by one constant President thereof: the Primacy and perpetual practice whereof no man can doubt of that hath but seen the writings of Clemens and Ignatius,* 1.1 and hath gone along with the History of those primitive times — We may well rest in the judgement of Mr. John Camero, the Learnedst Divine, be it spoke without envy, that the Church of Scotland hath afforded in this last age: [Nullus est dubitandi, locus, &c. There is no doubt at all saith he, but that Timothy was chosen by the Colledge of the Presbyters, to be the President of them, and that not without some authority over the rest, but yet such as have the due bounds and limits] And that this was a leading case, and common to other Churches, was never denyed by any author. Words may not break square, where the things are agreed. If the name of a Bishop dis∣please, let them call this man a Moderator, a President, a Super∣intendent, an Overseer; Only for the fixedness or change of this per∣son, let the ancient and universall practice of Gods Church be thought worthy to oversway. And if in this one point (N. B.) (wherein the distance it so narrow, we could condescend to each

other all other circumstances and appendances of varying practices or 〈◊〉〈◊〉, might without any difficulty be accorded. But if there must be a difference of judgement in these matters of outward Po∣licy, why should not our hearts be still one? why should such a di∣versity be of Power to endanger the dissolving of the bond of brother∣hood? May we have the grace but to follow the truth in Love, we shall in these several tracts overtake her happily in the end, and find•• her embracing of Peace, and crowning us with blessedness] So far Bishop Hall; so that you see that only the fixing of the Moderator or President will satisfie such as he: and so with him and such as he, for my part I am fully agreed al∣ready.

§. 4. And here by the way, because there are so many Episco∣pal separatists of late, that hazzard the souls of their partial fol∣lowers, and because the right habituating of the mind with Peace is an excellent help to a sound understanding, and the escaping the errors and hainous sins that Faction engageth too many in, I therefore make it my request to all that read these lines, but sober∣ly to read over that * 1.2 one Book of Bishop Halls, called the Peace∣maker, once or twice: which if I could procure, I think I should do much to the Peace of these Churches, and to the good of many endangered souls, that by passionate and factious leaders are misguided.

§. 5. The same Reverend man in his Humble Remonstrance hath these words, Pag. 29, 30▪ 31. [The second is intended to raise envy against us, as the uncharitable censurers and condemners of those Reformed Churches abroad, which differ from our Govern∣ment: wherein we do justly complain of a slanderous aspersion cast upon us: We love and honour those Sister Churches, as the dear spouse of Christ; we bless God for them; and we do heartily wish unto them that happiness in the Partnership of our admin••stration, which I doubt not but they do no less heartily wish unto themselves, Good words you will perhaps say; but what is all this fair comple∣ment, if our act condemn them? For if Episcopacy stand by Di∣vine right, what becomes of these Churches that want it? Ma••ice and ignorance are met together in this unjust aggravati••n: 1. Our position is only affirmative, implying the justifiableness and holiness of an Episcopal calling, without any further implication: Next, when we speak of Divine right, we mean not an express Law

of God requiring it upon the absolute Necessity of the Being of a Church (what hinderances soever may interpose) but a Divine institution warranting it where it is, and ••equiring it where it may be had. Every Church therefore which is capable of this form of Government, both may and ought to aff••ct it — but those particular Churches to whom this power and faculty is denyed, lose nothing of the true essence of a Church, though they miss some thing of their glory and perefection — And page 32. [Our form of Government — differs little from their own, save in the perpetuity of their (〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉) Moderatorship, and the exclu∣sion of that Lay-Presbyterie which never till this age had footing in the Christian Church.] — And Page 41, 42. [Alas my Brethren, while we do fully agree in all these, and all other Doctrinal and Practical points of Religion, why will you be so uncharitable, as by these frivolous and causeless Divisions to ••end the seamless coat of Christ? It it a Title, or a Retinue, or a Ce∣remony, a Garment, or a Colour, or an Organ Pipe, that can make us a different Church, whiles we preach and profess the same saving truth, whiles we desire (as you profess to do) to walk consciona∣bly with our God according to that one Rule of the Royall Law of our Maker, whiles we oppose one and the same common enemy, whiles we unfeignedly endeavour to hold the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of Peace? — For us, we make no difference at all (in the right and interest of the Church) betwixt Clergy and Laity, betwixt the Clergy and Laity of one part and of another: we are all your true Brethren; we are one with you, both in heart and brain, and hope to meet you in the same heaven: but if ye will needs be otherwise minded▪ we can but bewail the Churches mi∣sery and your sin. —] You hear how this good Bishop was far from a separation.

§. 6. How contrary to this, is the foresaid writing of Dr. Hide (which I instance in, because it is come new to my hand) who stigmatizeth the front of his book with the brand of separation, and that of one of the most rigid and unreasonable kinds. Thus he begins,

[When Conscientious Ministers cannot associate in the Church, and Conscientious Christians cannot go to Church; and Customary Christians go thither, either to little purpose, because to no true worship, or to great shame, because to no true Mini∣sters, tis fit the Church should come to private houses]—

Doth he not begin very wisely and charitably? What could the most Schismatical Papist say more? What! no true worship! no true Ministers! and but Customary Christians that come thither? Yes, and that's not all: he pursues it with an exprobration, that we are faln from our Religion, (p. 4.) and yet that's not all: he adds,

[Here seems yet to be a very bad certainty of their Re∣ligion; and how can there be a better Certainty of their salva∣tion? unless (that we may gratifie their singularity more then our own veracity) we will say, There may be a company of good Christians out of the Communion of Saints, or a Commu∣nion of Saints out of Christs Catholike Church.]

Should we laugh or weep at such a man as this? What! no communion of Saints, but with the separating party of the Prelates? Unhap∣py we that live in England, and can meet with so small a number of these Saints. Is the Catholike Church confined to this party? and Salvation to this Chunch? Transcendent Papal arrogancy! Its well that these Prelates are not the only Key-keepers of hea∣ven! for we see how we should then be used. I must tell this Dr. and all of his mind, that it is an easier way to Heaven, then we dare hope to come thither by, to joyn our selves to their se∣parating Communion of Saints, and live as the most that we are acquainted with, that are of that Saint-like Communion. He had been better have talked at these rates to men of another Age or Nation, then to us that see the lives of their adherents. We never changed our Religion nor our Church. What if he read his prayers, and I say mine without book; or what if he pray in white, and I in black? or what if he kneel in receiving the Eu∣charist, and I sit or stand? or what if he use the Cross in bap∣tisme, and I baptize no better then the Apostles did without it; do these or such like make us to be of two Religions? Do I change my Religion, if I read with a pair of spectacles, or if I look to∣wards the South or West, rather then the East &c.? We see what these men would make the Christian Religion to be. Were the Apostles no Christians, because they had no kneeling at the Eucharist, nor Cross in Baptism, nor Surplice, nor (at least our) Common Prayer-book, &c? Dare you say they were no Christians? or yet that Christian Religion was one thing then, and another thing now? And for our Churches, we do not only meet in the same places, but we have the same doctrine,

the same worship (in every part, though he talk of our no true worship; as if Praying, Praising God, &c. were no true wor∣ship:) the things changed were by the imposers and defenders (see Dr. Burgess Rejoynder) professed to be no parts at all of worship, but meer accidents; we have the same people, save here and there a few that separate by yours and others seducement, and some vile ones that we cast out; we have abundance of the same Ministers that we had. And yet must we have no worship, Mini∣stry, Communion of Saints, or Salvation, because we have only a Parochial and not a Diocesan Episcopacy? Forsooth we have lost our Religion, and are all lost men, because our Bishops have but single Parish-churches to oversee (which they find a load as heavy as they can bear,) and we have not one Bishop to take the Government of an hundred or two hundred Churches. At Rome he is a damned man that believeth not in the Pope: and is out of the Catholike Church, because he is out of the subjecti∣on of the Pope: and with these men, we are lost men, if we never so much believe in Christ, because we believe not in an Arch∣bishop, and are out of the Catholike Church and Communion of Saints, because we will not be ruled by such Rulers as these. And what's all this, to such Counties as this where I live, and most else in England that I hear of, that know of no Bishop they have (and they rejected none,) nor doth any come and com∣mand them any Obedience? Must we be unchristened, unchurcht and damned, for not obeying, when we have none to obey, or none that calls for our obedience? But I shall let these men pass, and leave them in their separation, desiring that they had Catho∣like spirits and principles. This much I have said to let men see, that there is no possibility of our union with this sort that are resolved on a separation; and that it is not these Novelists and Di∣viders, but the antient Episcopal party of England that we can easily agree with.

§. 7. The next that I shall instance in, that was agreed with these Principles of ours, is the late Reverend and Learned Bi∣sh••p Vsher, of whose Concord with us, I have two proofs. The one was his own profession to my self. The other is his own writings, especially his Propositions given in to King Charls, now printed▪ called [The Reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government, received in the ancient Church] which

consisteth of four Propositions (having first proved that all Presbyters have the power of Discipline and Church-govern∣ment:) the first alloweth the single Rector of the Parish to take notice of the scandalous, reprove, admonish, and debar them from the Lords Table. The second is, that in every Ru∣rall D••anry, all the Pastors within the Precinct, may by the Chorepiscopus or Suffragan, be every month Assembled in a Synod, and according to the Major part of their voices, he con∣clude all matters that shall be brought into debate before them, as Excommunication &c. The third is, for a Diocesan Synod once or Twice a year, where by the consent of the Major part of the Rectors, all things might be concluded by the Bishop or Superintendent, call him whether you will, or in his absence, by one of the suffragans, whom he deputes to be Moderator. The fourth is for Provincial and National Synods in like sort.

§. 8. And when I had perused these papers (in M. S.) I told him that yet one thing was left out, that the Episcopal par∣ty would many of them stick at more then he, and that is, a Negative voice in Ordination in the President, to which and the rest I proposed this for accommodation in brief [1. Let every particular or Parish Church have a Bishop and Presbyters to assist him, where possibly they can be had. 2. Let all these Associate and their several Associations have a stated President. 3. Let all men be at liberty for the name, whether they will call him a Bishop, Pre∣sident, Moderator, Superintendent, or the like. 4. And for the Negative voice in Ordination, let all Ministers of the Ass••ciati∣on agree that de facto they will not Ordain without him, but in Ca∣ses of Necessity; but let every man be left free to his own Princi∣ples on which he shall ground this practice, and not be bound to con∣sent, that de jure a Negative vote is due to the President.] These terms did I propose to the Bishop for Accommodation, and in∣treated him to tell me plainly his judgement, whether they are satisfactory and sufficient for the Episcopal party to yield to for Peace and Communion? and his answer was this [They are suf∣ficient, and mod••rate men will accept them, but others will not, as I have tryed: for many of them are offended with me for propounding such terms.] And thus this Reverend Bishop and I were agreed for Peace in a quarter of an hour; (the truth of wh••ch, I so∣lemnly profess:) and so would all the Ministers and Christians

in England, if they were not either wiser or foolisher, honester or dishonester then he and I. And this I leave on Record to Posterity, as a testimony against the dividers and contenders of this age, [That it was not long of men of the temper and princi∣ples of this Reverend Archbishop and my self, that the Episcopal party and their dissenting Brethren in England, were not speedily and heartily agreed: for we actually did it.] To no honour of mine, but to the honour of this peaceable man, and the shame of the unpeaceable hinderers or refusers of our Reconciliation, let this testimony live, that Posterity may know whom to blame for our Calamities; they all extoll Peace when they reject it and destroy it.

§. 9 For a third witness of the Reconcileableness of the Mo∣derate Episcopal party on these terms, I may well produce Dr. Holdsworth; who subscribed these same Propositions of Bishop Vsher to the King:* 1.3 and therefore was a Consenter to the same way of Accommodation.

* 1.4§. 10. A fourth witness is Dr. Forbs of Scotland, who having written purposely a Book called his Irenicon, for Accommoda∣tion on such terms, I need to say no more of him, but refer you to the Book. I shall name no more of the Episcopal party. These four are enow to my purpose.

§. 11. That the Presbyterians (of England specially) are willing to close upon these terms of a fixed Moderator, I prove, 1. By the profest Consent of that Reverend Learned servant of Christ Mr. Thomas Gataker, a Member of the late Assembly at Westminster,* 1.5 who hath professed his judgement of this matter in a Book against Lilly. I refer you to his own words, for bre∣vity sake.

§. 12. My next witness, and for brevity, many in one, shall be Mr. Geree,* 1.6 and the Province of London, citing him in their Ius Divinum Ministerii, pag. Append. 122. the words are these [That the Ancient Fathers in the point of Episcopacy, differ more from the high Prelatist th••n from the Presbyterian: for the Presbyterians alwayes have a President to guide their actions, which they acknowledge may be perpetual durante vita modo se bene ges∣serit; or temporary to avoid inconvenience, which Bilson takes hold of as advantagious, because so little discrepant, (as he saith) from what he maintaineth.] See the rest there.

§. 13. 3. Beza (the Leader against Prelacy) saith,* 1.7 de grad. Minist. Evang. Instituti Divini est, ut in omni coetu Presbytero∣rum unus sit qui ordine praeat & praesit reliquis. It is of Divine Institution that in every Assembly of Presbyters, there be one that go before and be above the rest.] And dividing Bishops into Divine, Humane, and Diabolical, he makes the Humane tolerable Pre∣lacy to be the fixed President.

§. 14. 4. Calvin (who is accused for ejecting Episcopacy) besides what he writes of it to Card Sadolet,* 1.8 saith in his Insti∣tut. lib. 4. cap. 4. §. 1. [Ea cautione totam suam Oeconomiam composuerunt (Ecclesiae veteris Episcopi) ad unicam illam Dei verbi normam, ut facile videas nihil fere hac parte habuisse à verbo Dei alienum.] §. 2. [Quibus ergo docendi munus in∣ju••ctum erat, eos omnes nominabant Presbyteros. Illi ex suo nu∣mero in singulis civitatibus unum eligebant, cui specialiter da∣bant titulum Episcopi: ne ex aequalitate, ut f••••ri solet, dissidia nas∣cerentur. Neque tamen sic honore & dignitate superior erat Epis∣copus, ut Dominium in Collegas haberet: sed quas partes habet Consul in Senatu, ut referat de negotiis, sententias roget, consulendo, monendo, hortando, aliis prae••at, authoritate sua totam actionem regat; & quod decretum Communi Consilio fuerit, exequatur: id munus sustinebat Episcopus in Presbyterorum coetu] & §. 4. fine [Gubernationem sic constituti nonnulli Hierarchiam vocarunt, nomine (ut mihi videtur) improprio, certe scripturis inusitato: Cavere enim voluit spiritus sanctus, nequis principatum aut do∣minationem somniaret, quum de Ecclesiae gubernatione agitur. Verum si rem, omisso vocabul••, intueamur (N. B.) reperiemus veteres Episcopos non aliam regendae Ecclesiae formam voluisse fingere ab ea quam Deus verbo suo praescripsit] This he writes after the mention of Archbishops and Patriarcks, as well as of Bishops governing in Synods.

§. 15. Where by the way let me give you this observation, that Bishops Governing but in Synods can have no other power of Government then the Synods themselves have: But Synods themselves as such are not directly for Government, but for Concord and Communion of Churches, and so consequently for well-governing the several flocks: Nor hath a Synod any Go∣verning Power over a particular Pastor, as being his superiour appointed to that end: but only a Power of Consent or Agree∣ment:

to which for unity, and communion sake, he is conse∣quentially obliged; not by Virtue of Gods Command, that re∣quireth us to obey the Higher Power (for three Pastors are not made so the Rulers of one) but by virtue of Gods com∣mands that require us to do all things in Unity, and to main∣tain the Peace and Conco••d of the Churches, and to avoid Di∣visions and discord.

§. 16. If any think that this doth too much favour the Con∣gregational way, I must tell him that it is so true and clear, that the Episcopal men that are moderate acknowledge it. For instance: the Reverend Bishop Vsher did, without asking, of himself profess to me that it was his judgement [that certainly Councils or Synods are not for Government but for Vnity, and that a Bish••p out of Council hath the same Governing Power as all the Council, though their vote may bind him for Vnity to consent.

§. 17. This being so, it must needs follow that an Archbishop, or the President of a National, Provincial, Diocesan, or Clas∣sicall Assembly, or of any Association of the Pastors of many Churches, hath no superiour Governing power over the Paro∣chial or Congregational Bishop of one Church; but only in concurrence with the Synod, a Power of Determining by way of Agreement, such points as he shall be obliged for Unity and Communion to consent to and perform, if they be not contrary to the word of God. This evidently follows from this Reverend Archbishops doctrine, and the truth.

§. 18. And if any shall think that the Presbyterians will not yield that a particular Church do ordinarily consist but of one full Congregation, I confute them by producing their own Con∣cessions: in the London Ministers Ius Divinum Ministerii. Ap∣pend. pag. 123. they plainly say, that [The later (Bishops) were Diocesan, the former (that is the Bishops of the first or an∣cient times) were Bishops only of one Congregation] And pag. 82. they say [These Angels were Congregational,* 1.9 not Diocesan: In the beginning of Christianity, the number of Believers, even in the greatest Cities were so few, as that they might well meet, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 in one and the same place. And th••se were called, the Church of the City, and therefore to ordain Elders 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, are all one in Scripture] Thus far they yield to the Con∣gregational men.

§. 19. 5. One other witness of the Presbyterians readiness to accommodate on these terms, I shall give, and no more, and that is Mr. Richard Vines, a man that was most eminent for his ma∣nagement of the Presbyterian cause in the Assembly, and at Vx∣bridge Treaty, and in the Isle of Wight; the Papers there pre∣sented to the King are to be seen in Print. When we did set up our Association in this County, I purposing to do nothing with∣out advise, and designing a hearty closure of all sober Godly men, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Congregational and Erastian: did consult first about it by Letters with Mr. Vines, and in his answer to mine, he approved of the design, and thought our distance very small, and yielded to a fixed Presidency, though not to a Negative voice: (which I would have none forced to.) Because they are too long to put into this section, I will adjoyn that part of his Letter that concerns this subject, prefixing one that went next before it, against the selling of the Church lands, that the Bishops may see how little such men as he con∣sented to it or liked it; and may take heed of charging them with Sacriledge.

§. 20. Lastly the Erastians are known to be for Episcopacy it self, so be it, it come in by the power of the Magistrate. And that nothing proposed crosseth the Principles of the Congregatio∣nall men, I have shewed before: But whether really we shall have their consent to a Peace upon these proposed terms, I know not; because their writings that I have seen, do not meddle with the point, save only one Congregational man, Mr. Giles Firmin, hath newly written for this very thing, in his Treatise of Schism against Dr. Owen, page 66, 67, 68. I desire you to read the words to save me the labour of transcribing them. In which he giveth us to understand, that some of the Moderate Congrega∣tional Party, will joyn with us in a Reconciliation on these terms: Whether many or all will do so, I know not. Let their practise shew whether they will be the first or the last in the Healing of our Divisions. But if they refuse▪ we will not for that refuse to Love them as Brethren, and study to perform our duty towards them: as knowing that we suffer much more when we come short of our duty and love to others, then when they come short of their duty and love to us.

Mr. Richard Vines his Letters before mentioned as a Testimony that the Presbyterian Ministers are not against a fixed Presi∣dent, or that Episcopacy which Bishop Hall, &c. would have been satisfied with.

Reverend Friend,

I Received your two last; and as for a Schoolmaster I shall do the best I can to propound one to you, &c. As for your Question about Sacriledge, I am very near you in present opinion. The point was never stated nor debated in the Isle of Wight. I did for my part decline the dispute: for I could not maintain the cause as on the Parliaments side: and because both I and others were unwilling, it was never brought to any open debate: The Commissioners did ar∣gue it with the King: but they went upon grounds of Law and Po∣licy; and it was only about Bishops Lands: for they then averred the continuance of D. and Chapiters Lands to the use of the Church. Some deny that there is any sin of Sacriledge under the Gospel: and if there be any, they agree not in the definition: Some hold an alienation of Church goods in case of Necessity; and then make the Necessity what and as extensive as they please. The most are of opinion that whiles the Church lies so unprovided for, the donati∣ons are not alienable sine Sacrilegio. If there were a surplusage above the competent maintenance, it were another matter. Its cleer enough that the D••nors wills are frustrated, and that their General intention and the General use, viz. the maintenance of Gods wor∣ship and Ministers, should stand, though the particular use might be superstitious. I cited in my last Sermon before the Parliament (unprinted) a place touching Sacriledge out of Mr. Hildersham on Psal. 51. It did not please. You may find the words in his book by the Index. If his description of it be true, then you will still be of your own mind. I dare encourage no purchasers; but do desire to have some more of your thoughts about it, and I shall return you mine: as I do my thanks for your excellent and worthily esteem∣ed Treatise which you vouchsafed to prefix my name before: Sir, I have no more time or paper but to subscribe my self

Your truly loving Friend R. Vines.

London, July 20.

Sir

THough I should have desired to have understood your thoughts about the point of Sacriledge, that so I might have formed up my thoughts into some better order and cleerer issue then I did in my la••t: yet to shew unto you how much I value this correspondence with you, I am willing to make some return to your last. And first touching the Schoolmaster intended, &c. — The Accomo∣dation you speak of is a great and a good work for the gaining into the work such useful parts and interests as might very much heal the discord, and unite the strength of men to oppose destructive ways, and in my opinion more feasible with those men then any other, if they be moderate and godly: for we differ with them rather about some pinacles of the Temple then the foundation er abbuttresses thereof. I would not have much time sp••ut in a formula of doctrine or worship: for we are not much distaxt in them and happily no more then with one another: But I would have the agreement at∣tempted in that very thing which chiefly made the division, and that is Government; heal that breach and heal all: there begin and therein labour all you can. What influence this may have upon others I know not in this exulceration of mens minds: but the work speaks it self g••od, and your reasons for the attempting of it are ve∣ry considerable. For the Assembly, you know, they can meddle with just nothing but what is sent u••to them by Parliament or one house thereof (as the order saith) and for that reason never took upon them to intermedle therein. What they do in such a thing, must be done as private persons, and not as in the capacity of Assembly men, except it come to them recommended by the Parliament. The great business is to find a temperament in ordination and govern∣ment, in both which the exclusion or admittance of Presbyters (di∣cis causa) for a shadow, was not regular: and no doubt the Presbyters ought and may both teach and govern, as men that must give account of souls. For that you say of every particular Church having many Presbyters, it hath been considered in our Assembly, and the Scripture speaks fair for it, but then the Church and City was of one extent: no Parishes or bounds assigned out to particu∣lar men (as now) but the Ministers preacht in circuitu or in com∣mon and stood in relation to the Churches as to one Church, though

meeting hapl•• in divers houses or places (as is still the manner of some Cities in the Low Cou••tries.) If you will follow this model, you must lay the City all into one Church particular, and the Vil∣lages half a dozen of them into a Church: which is a business here in England of vast design and consequence. And as for that you say of a Bishop over many Presbyters, not over many Churches; I believe no such Bishops will please our men: but the notion as you conceive it, hath been and is the opinion of learned men. Gro∣tius in his commentary on the Acts in divers places and particular∣ly Cap. 17. saith, that as in every particular Synagogue (many of which was in some one City) there was 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; such was the Primitive B••shop: and doubtless the first Bishops were over the community of Presbyters as Presbyters in joint relation to one Church or Region; which Region being upon the increase of believers, divided into more Churches, and in after times those Churches assigned to particular men: yet he the Bishop continued Bishop over them still. For that you say, he had a Negative voice, thats more then ever I saw proved, or ever shall, I believe for the first two hundred years; and yet I have laboured to enquire into it. That makes him Angelus princeps, not Angelus praeses at Dr. Reignolds saith Calvin denies that, & makes him Consul in Senatu. or as the Speaker in the house of Parli••ment, which as I have heard that D. B. did say, was but to make him fore-man of the Iury. Take heed of yeilding a Negative voice. A•• touching the Intro∣duction of ruling Elders, such as are modelled out by Parliament, my judgement is sufficiently known: I am of your judgement in the point. There should be such Elders as have power to preach as well as rule: I say power; but how that will be effected here I know not, except we could or would return to the Primitive na∣ture and constitution of particular Churches: and therefore it must be helped by the combination of more Churches together in∣to one as to the matter of Government, and let them be still distinct as to Word and Sacraments. That is the easiest way of accommo∣dation that yet occurs to my thoughts. Sir I fear I trouble you too long, but it is to shew how much I value you and your Letters to me: for which I thank you, and rest

Yours in the best bonds R. Vines.

Septemb. 7.

THough Mr. Vines here yield not the Negative Voice to have been de facto in the first or second age, nor to be de jure, yet he without any question yielded to the stating of a President, durante vita, if he prove not unworthy, (which was one chief point that I propounded to him.) And I make no doubt but he would have yielded to a voluntary Con∣sent of Presbyters de facto not to ordain without the President, but in case of Necessity: But th••t I did not propound to him. And the difficulties that are before us de facto in setting up a Parochi∣all Episcopacy which he mentioneth, I have cleared up already in these papers, shewing partly that the thing is already existent, and partly how more fully to accomplish it. All would be easie, if Holy, Self-denying, Charitable hearts were ready to enter∣tain and put in execution the honest, healing Principles that are before us, and obvious to an ordinary understanding: Or (if still the Pastors will be contentious) if Holy, Peaceable Magistrates would seriously take the work in hand, and drive on the sloathful and quarrelsome Ministers to the performance of their duty.

The Episcopacy of the Protestant Churches in Poland.

ADrian. Regenvolscius Histor. Ecclesiast. Sclavonicar. Pro∣vinc. lib. 3. page 424.

N. B. Quoniam à prima Ecclesiarum in minoris Poloniae Pro∣vincia, R••formatione, usu & consuetudine receptum est, ut è seni∣oribus his••e omnium Districtuum, quorum nomina 36. recensuimus, unus Primarius, sive in ordine Primus, qui vulgo Superintendens Ecclesiarum min••ris Poloniae vocatur, Synodisque Provincialibus praesidet; totius Synodi Provincialis authoritate, consensu ac suf∣fragiis eligatur, ac, non quidem per impositionem manuum, (prop∣ter evitandam Primatus alicujus suspicionem, aut juris ac potesta∣tis alicujus in caeteros seniores speciem,) benedictione tantum, fra∣terna apprecatione, Officiorum quae hocce concernunt munus praele∣ctione, piis{que} totius Synodi precibus, Regiminis duntaxat & Or∣dinis boni in Ecclesia Dei causa, inauguratur ad declaratur, No∣mina

Primariorum ••orum Seniorum, sive Minor. Polon. Ecclesi∣arum superintendium.]—

The Churches of the Bohemian Confess. called Vnitatis Fra∣trum, have among the Pastors of the Churches, their Conseniors, and Seniors, and one President over all. Id. Regen. Vols. p. 315. [Seniores sive superattendentes Ecclesiarum Bohemicarum & Mo∣ravicarum, &c. — plerum{que} è Consenioribus eliguntur, ac per impositionem Manuum publicam{que} inaugurationem, in mu∣nus Senioratus ordinantur ac consecrantur. Et longa consu∣etudine in Ecclesiis trium harum provinciarum receptum est, ut è senioribus unus Primarius (sive in ordine Primus) quem vulgo illi Praesidem vocant, non eligatur quidem, nec pecu∣lariter Ordinetur, sed post decessum aliorum, ipso Ordinationis tempore prior succedat]

Notes

• * 1.1

  ☞
• * 1.2

  And Mr. Burroughs Irenico••.
• * 1.3

  Dr. Holds∣worth.
• * 1.4

  Dr. Forbs.
• * 1.5

  Gataker.
• * 1.6

  The London P••••••ince▪
• * 1.7

  Beza
• * 1.8

  Calvin. See also Dan. Colonius in his Disputat. ex I••st••tut. Calv. l. 4. D••sp. 2. §. 18.24.
• * 1.9

  ☞