Actes and monuments of matters most speciall and memorable, happenyng in the Church. [vol. 2, part 2] with an vniuersall history of the same, wherein is set forth at large the whole race and course of the Church, from the primitiue age to these latter tymes of ours, with the bloudy times, horrible troubles, and great persecutions agaynst the true martyrs of Christ, sought and wrought as well by heathen emperours, as nowe lately practised by Romish prelates, especially in this realme of England and Scotland. Newly reuised and recognised, partly also augmented, and now the fourth time agayne published and recommended to the studious reader, by the author (through the helpe of Christ our Lord) Iohn Foxe, which desireth thee good reader to helpe him with thy prayer.

¶An other examination of Robert Smith before the sayd Bishop.

VPon Saterday at eight of the clocke, I was brought to his chamber agayne, and there by him examined,* 1.1 as foloweth.

Boner.

Thou Robert Smith. &c. sayst, that there is no ca∣tholicke Church here on earth.

Smith.

Ye haue heard me both speake the contrary, and ye haue written it as a witnes of the same.

Boner.

Yea, but I must aske thee this question: how sayest thou?

Smith.

Must ye of necessity beginne with a lye? it maketh manifest that ye determine to end with the same. But there shall no Lyers enter into the kingdome of God. Neuer∣thelesse, if ye will be aunsweared, aske mine articles that were written yesterday,* 1.2 and they shall tel you that I haue confessed a Church of God, as well in earth as in heauen, and yet all one Church, & one mans members, euen Christ Iesus.

Boner.

Well, what sayest thou to auriculer confession? is it not necessary to be vsed in Christes Church, and wilt not thou be shriuen of the priest?

Smith.

It is not needefull to be vsed in Christes Church, as I aunswered yesterday. But if it be needefull for your Churche, it is to picke mens purses.* 1.3 And such pickepurse matters is all the whole rabble of your ceremonies: for all is but mony matters that ye maynteyne.

Boner.

Why, how art thou able to proue that confession is a pickepurse matter? Art thou not ashamed so to say?

Smith.

I speake by experience. For I haue both hearde and seene the fruites of the same. For firste it hath bene, we see, a bewrayer of kinges secretes,* 1.4 and the secretes of other mens consciences. Who being deliuered, and glad to be discharged of theyr sinnes, haue geuen to Priests great summes of mony to absolue them, & sing Masses for theyr soules health.

And for ensample, I beganne to bring in a pageant, that by report was played at saynt Thomas of Acres, and where I was sometime a childe waiting on a Gentleman of Northfolke,* 1.5 which being bounde in conscience through the perswasion of the Priest, gaue away a great summe of his goodes, and forgaue vnto M. Gressam a great summe of money, and to an other as much. The priest had for his part a summe, and the house had an annuitie to keepe him, the which thing when his brother heard, he came down to London, & after declaration made to the Counsayle, how by the subtilty of the Priest he had robbed his wyfe & chil∣dren, recouered a great part agayne, to the value of two or three hundred poundes of Maister Gressam and his other frende: but what he gaue to the house, could not be recoue∣red. This tale began I to tell. But when my Lord saw it sauored not to his purpose, he began to reuile me, & sayde: By the Masse, if the Queenes maiesty were of his mynde, I should not come to talke before any man, but should be, put into a sacke, & ••ogge tyed vnto the same, & so should be throwen into the water.

Smith.

To which I answered againe, saying: I know you speake by practise, as much as by speculation: for both you & your predecessors haue sought all meanes possible to kyll Christ secretely: record of M. Hunne, whom your prede∣cessor caused to be thrust in at the nose, w^t hot burning nee∣dles, and then to be hanged, & sayde y^e same Hunne to haue hanged himselfe: and also a good brother of yours, a By∣shop of your professiō hauing in his prison an innocēt mā, whom because he saw he was not able by the scriptures to ouercome, he made him priuily to be snarled, & his flesh to be torne and plucked awaye with a payre of pinsers, and bringing him before the people, sayd, the Rattes had eaten him. Thus according to your othe, is all your dealing and hath bene: and as you taking vpon you the office,* 1.6 doe not without othes open your mouth, no more do you without murder maynteyne your traditions.

Boner.

Ah, ye are a generation of lyers: there is not one true word that commeth out of your mouthes.

Smith.

* 1.7Yes, my Lorde, I haue sayde that Iesus Christ is dead for my sinnes, and risen for my iustification, and thys is no lye.

Boner.

Then made he his man to put in my tale of y^e gen∣tleman of Northfolke, and would haue had me recite it a∣gayne: which when I would not doe, he made his man to put in suche summes as he imagined. At the ende of thys, commeth in M. Mordant knight,* 1.8 and sate downe to heare my examination. Then sayd my Lord. Howe sayest thou Smith to the seuen sacramentes? Beleeuest thou not that they be Gods order, that is to say, the sacrament of. &c.

Smith.

I beleue that in Gods Church are but two Sacra∣mentes,* 1.9 that is to say, the sacrament of regeneration, & the sacrament of the Lordes supper: and as for the Sacrament of the aultar, and all your sacraments, they may wel serue your church, but Gods church hath nothing to do w^t them, neither haue I any thing to do to aunswere them, nor you to examine me of them.

Boner.

Why, is Gods order chaūged in baptisme? In what poynt do we dissent from the word of God?* 1.10

Smith.

First in halowing your water: in coniuring of the same: in baptising children, with annoynting and spitting in their mouthes, mingled with salt, and with many other lend ceremonies, of which not one poynt is able to be pro∣ued in Gods order.

Boner.

By the masse this is the vnshamefast heretique that euer I heard speake.

Smith.

Well sworne my Lord, ye keepe a good watch.

Boner.

Well, M. Controller, ye catche me at my wordes: but I will watch thee as well, I warrant thee.

Mordant.

By my troth, my Lord, quoth M. Mordant, I neuer heard the like in all my life. But I pray you my lord, marke well his aunswere for Baptisme. He dissalloweth therin, holy oyntmēt, salt, and such other laudable ceremo∣nies which no Christian man will deny.

Smith.

That is a shamefull blasphemy agaynst Christ, so to vse any mingle mangle in baptising young infants.

Boner.

I beleue, I tell thee, that if they dye before they bee baptised, they be damned.

Smith.

Yee shall neuer bee saued by that beliefe. But I pray you my Lord, shewe me, are we saued by water, or by Christ?

Boner.

By both.

Smith.

Then the water dyed for our sinnes: and so muste ye say,* 1.11 that the water hath life, and it being our seruaunt, & created for vs, is our sauiour: this, my Lord, is a good do∣ctrine, is it not?

Boner.

Why, how vnderstandest thou these scriptures? Ex∣cept a man be borne of water and of the spyrit, he can not enter into the kingdome of God.

And againe, Suffer (sayth our Sauiour) these children to come vnto me: and if thou wilt not suffer them to be bapti∣sed after the laudable order, thou lettest them to come vnto Christ.

Smith.

Where ye alleadge Saynt Iohn, Except a man &c. and will thereby proue the water to saue, and so the deede or worke to saue and putte away sinnes, I will send you to Saynt Paule, which asketh of the Galathians: Whether they receiued the spirite by the deedes of the law, or by the prea∣ching of fayth? and there concludeth, that the holye Ghoste accompanyeth the preaching of fayth, and with the worde of fayth entreth into the harte. So nowe if Baptysme preache me the washinge in Christes bloud, so doeth the holy Ghost accompanye it, and it is vnto me as a Prea∣cher, and not a Sauiour. And where ye say, I let the children to come vnto Christ,* 1.12 it is manifest by our Saui∣ours wordes, that ye let them to come, that will not suffer them to come to him without the necessitye of water. For he sayth: suffer them to come vnto me and not vnto wa∣ter, and therefore if ye condemne them, ye condemne both the merites and wordes of Christ. For our Sauiour say∣eth: Except ye turne and become as childrē, ye cannot enter in∣to the Kyngdome of GOD. And so broughte I out manye other ensamples, to make manifest, that Christ hath clean∣sed original sinne, bringing in ensamples out of scriptures for the same.

Boner.

Then thou makest the water of none effect, and then put away water.* 1.13

Smith.

It is not (sayth Saynt Peter) the washynge awaye of the filth of the fleshe, but in that a good conscience consenteth vnto GOD. And for to prooue that water onely bringeth not the holye ghost, it is written in the 8. of the Actes, that Simon receiued water, but would haue receyued the holy ghost for money.* 1.14 Also that the holy ghost hath come before baptisme, it is written that Iohn had the holy ghost in his mothers wombe. Cornelius, Paule, and the Queene of Candace seruant, with many other receiued the holy ghost before Baptisme. Yea, and although your generation haue set at nought the worde of God, and like swine turned hys wordes vpside downe, yet must his Church keep the same in order that he lefte them, whiche his Churche dare not breake: and to iudge children damned that be not baptised, it is wicked.

Mord.

By our Lady syr, but I beleue that if my childe dye without water, he is damned.

Boner.

Yea, and so do I, and all Catholicke men, good M. Mordant.

Smith.

Well my Lord, such Catholicke, such saluation.

Boner.

Well Syr, what say you to the Sacrament of Or∣ders?

Smith.

Ye may call it the Sacrament of misorders:* 1.15 for all orders are appoynted of God. But as for your shauing, annoynting, greasing, poling, & roūding, there are no such thinges appointed in Gods book, and therfore I haue no∣thing to do to beleue your orders. And as for you, my lord, if ye had grace or intelligēce, ye wold not so disfigure your selfe as ye do.

Boner.

Sayest thou so?* 1.16 nowe by my troth and I wyll goe shaue my selfe to anger thee withal: and so sent for his bar∣ber, which immediatly came. And before my face at y^e doore of the next chamber he shaued himselfe, desiring me before he went, to answere to these articles.

Boner.

What say you to the holy bread and holy water,* 1.17 to the sacrament of annoynting, & to all the rest of such cere∣monies of the church?

Smith.

I say, they be bables for fooles to play withall, & not for the children of God to exercise themselues in: and therfore they may go among the refuse. Then went away Maister Mordant, and my Lord went to shauing, leauing there certayne Doctors, as he called thē, to assay what they could doe, of whō I was baited for halfe an houre: of whō I also asked this questiō: Where were all you in the dayes of Kyng Edward, that ye spake not that which ye speake now?

Doct.

We were in England.* 1.18

Smith.

Yea, but then ye had the faces of men, but nowe yee haue put on Lyons faces again, as sayth S. Iohn: Ye shew your selues now as full of malice as ye may be. For ye haue for euery time a viser: yea, & if an other king Edward shoulde arise, ye would then say, Downe with the Pope, for hee is Antichrist, and so are all his Angels.

Then was I al to reuiled, and so sent away, & brought in agayne to come before these men: & one of them that bai∣ted me before, asked me if I disobeyed confession?

Smith.

To whom I answered: Looke in mine articles, and they shall shew you what I allow.

Doct.

Your articles confesse that you allow not auriculare confession.

Smith.

I allow it not, because the word aloweth it not, nor commaundeth it.

Doct.

Why, it is written, thou shalt not hide thy sinnes & offences.* 1.19

Smith.

No more do I when I confesse them to almightye God.

Doct.

Why, ye can not say, that ye can hide them frō God, and therefore you must vnderstand the wordes are spoken to be vttered to them that do not know them.

Smith.

Ye haue made a good aunswere: then must y^e priest confesse himselfe to me, as I to him. For I know his faul∣tes and secretes no more then he knoweth mine. But if ye confesse you to the Priest, and not vnto God, ye shall haue the reward that Iudas had: for he confessed him selfe to the priest, and yet went and hanged himselfe by and by: and so as many as do not acknowledge theyr faultes to God, are sayd to hide them.

Doct.

What did they that come to Iohn to be baptised?

Smith.

The came and confessed theyr sinnes vnto almighty God.

Doct.

And not vnto Iohn?

Smith.

If it were vnto Iohn, as ye are not able to proue, yet was it to God before Iohn, and the whole Congrega∣tion.

Doct.

Why, Iohn was alone in the wildernes.* 1.20

Smith.

Why, and yet the scriptures say he had many Disci∣ples, and that many Phariseis and Saduces came to hys Baptisme. Here the Scriptures and you agree not. And if they confessed themselues to Iohn, as ye say, it was to all the Congregation, as saynt Paule doth to Timothy, and to all that reade his Epistle, in opening to all the hearers, that he was not worthy to be called an Apostle, because he had bene a Tyraunt. But as for eare confession, ye neuer heard it allowed by the worde. For the Prophete Dauid maketh his confession vnto God, and sayeth: I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lord. Daniell maketh his confession vn∣to the Lorde: Iudith, Tobye, Ieremye, Manasses, wyth all the forefathers did euen so. For the Lorde hath sayde:

Call vppon mee in the time of trouble,* 1.21 and I will deliuer thee. Knocke, aske, seeke, with such like, and this is the woorde of God. Now bring somewhat of the word to helpe your self withall. Then they raged and called me dogge, and said I was damned.

Smith.

Nay, ye are dogges, that for because holy thinges are offered, you wyll slaye your frendes. For I maye say with S. Paul: I haue fought with beastes in the likenes of mē. For here I haue bene bayted these two dayes, of my Lord & his great Bulles of Basan, and in his hall beneath haue I bene bayted of the rest of his bande. With this came my Lord from shauing, and asked me how I liked him?

Smith.

Forsoothe, ye are euen as wise as ye were before ye were shauen.

Boner.

How standeth it, mayster Doctours, haue ye done any good?

Doct.

No, by my troth my Lord, we can do no good.

Smith.

Then is it fulfilled which is written: How can an e∣uill tree bring forth good fruit?

Bonor.

Nay, noughty felow, I set these gentlemē to bring thee home to Christ.

Smith.

Such Gentlemen, such Christes: and as truely as they haue that name from Christ, so truely doe they teache Christ.

Boner.

Well, wilt thou neither heare them nor me?

Smith.

Yes I am compelled to heare you: but ye can not compell me to folow you.

Boner.

Well, thou shalt be burned at a stake in smithfield if thou wilt not turne.

Smith.

* 1.22And ye shall burne in hell, if ye repent not: but my Lord, to put you out of doubt, because I am wery, I wyll strayne curtesy with you. I perceiue ye will not with your Doctors come vnto me, and I am not determined to come vnto you, by Gods grace. For I haue hardened my face a∣gaynst you as hard as brasse. Thē after many rayling sen∣tences I was sent away. And thus haue I left the trueth of mine answeres in writing (gentle Reader) being com∣pelled by my frends to do it: that ye may see how the Lord hath according to his promise, geuen me a mouth and wise¦dome for to answere in his cause, for which I am condem∣ned, and my cause not heard.

Notes

• * 1.1

  An other exa∣mination of R. Smith.

  Boner begin∣neth with an vntruth.
• * 1.2

  The Church.
• * 1.3

  Auricular con∣fession is but a pickepurse mat∣ter.
• * 1.4

  The inconueni∣ences of auricu∣lar confession.
• * 1.5

  A false practise of a Priest vn∣der confession.
• * 1.6

  Example of terrible cruelty shewed vpon a poore innocent.
• * 1.7

  Anno 1555. August.
• * 1.8

  Syr Iohn Mor∣dant Knight.
• * 1.9

  2. Sacramentes.
• * 1.10

  Baptisme in what poyntes it is abused by the Catholickes.
• * 1.11

  This was spokē more to con∣found the opi∣nion of water, then to let chil∣dren to haue water.
• * 1.12

  The water of Baptisme a preacher, and not a Sauiour.
• * 1.13

  The element of water in Bap∣tisme bringeth not the holy Ghost.
• * 1.14

  The holy Ghost receaued of some before Baptisme.
• * 1.15

  The Sacra∣ment of or∣ders.
• * 1.16

  Boner sha∣ueth him∣selfe in an∣ger of Ro∣bert Smyth.
• * 1.17

  Holy bread. Holy water. A••nnoyn∣ting.
• * 1.18

  Talke be∣twene Rob. Smyth and the Doctors.
• * 1.19

  Against au∣ricular con∣fession.
• * 1.20

  Conf••ssing vnto ••ohn in the wil∣derne•••• was not to him, but before him ••o God.
• * 1.21

  Anno 1555. Iuly.
• * 1.22

  The mar∣uerlous boldenes of Robert Smith geuē him of God agaynst Christes e∣nemyes.