Actes and monuments of matters most speciall and memorable, happenyng in the Church. [vol. 2, part 1] with an vniuersall history of the same, wherein is set forth at large the whole race and course of the Church, from the primitiue age to these latter tymes of ours, with the bloudy times, horrible troubles, and great persecutions agaynst the true martyrs of Christ, sought and wrought as well by heathen emperours, as nowe lately practised by Romish prelates, especially in this realme of England and Scotland. Newly reuised and recognised, partly also augmented, and now the fourth time agayne published and recommended to the studious reader, by the author (through the helpe of Christ our Lord) Iohn Foxe, which desireth thee good reader to helpe him with thy prayer.

¶The protestation of mayster Hugh Latimet, geuen vp in writing to Doctor Weston.

The conclusions whereunto I must aunswere, are these.

* 1.11 The first is, that in the sacramēt of the Aultar, by the vertue of Gods word pronounced by the Priest, there is really present, the naturall body of Christ, conceiued of the virgin Mary, vn∣der the kindes of the appearaunces of bread and wine: and in like maner his bloud.

2 The second is, that after consecration, there remaineth no sub∣staunce of bread and wyne, nor none other substaunce, but the substance of God and man.

3 The third is, that in the Masse there is the liuely sacrifice of the church, which is propiciable, as wel for the sins of the quicke, as of the dead.

* 1.2COncerning the first conclusion, me thinketh it is sette forth with certayn new found termes, that be obscure, and doe not sound according to the speach of the scripture. Howbeit, howsoeuer I vnderstand it, this I do aunswere playnely, though not without perill: I aunswere (I say) that to the right celebration of the Lordes supper, there is no other presence of Christ required, then a spirituall pre∣sence:* 1.3 and this presence is sufficient for a Christian man, as a presence by which we abide in Christ, and Christ abi∣deth in vs, to the obteining of eternall life, if we perseuer. And this same presence may be called most fitly, a reall pre¦sence, that is, a presence not fayned, but a true and a fayth∣full presence. Which thing I here rehearse, least some Sy∣cophant or scorner should suppose me with the Anabapti∣stes, to make nothing els of the Sacrament, but a naked and a bare signe. As for that, which is fayned of many con∣cerning theyr corporall presence, I for my part take it but for a papisticall inuention, and therfore thinke it vtterly to be reiected.

Concerning the seconde conclusion, I dare be bolde to say,* 1.4 that it hath no stay or grounde in Gods word, but is a thing inuented and founde out by man: and therefore to be taken as fond and false: and I had almost sayd, as the Mo∣ther and Nourse of the other errors. It were good for my Lordes & maysters of the transubstantiation, to take heede least they conspire with y^e nestorians, for I do not see how they can auoyd it.

The third conclusion (as I do vnderstand it) seemeth subtlely to sow sedition agaynst the offering which Christ himselfe offred for vs in his own proper person,* 1.5 according to that pithy place of Paule. Hebre. 1. when he sayth: That Christ his owne selfe hath made purgation of our sinnes. And af∣terwardes: That he might (sayth he) be a mercifull and a fayth∣full Byshop, concerning those thinges which are to be done with God,* 1.6 for the taking away of our sinnes. So that the expiation or taking away of our sinnes, may be thought rather to de¦pend on this: that Christ was an offring Bishop, then that he was offered, were it not that he was offered of himselfe: and therefore it is needlesse that he should be offered of any other. I will speake nothing of the wonderfull presumpti∣on of man, to dare to attempt this thing without a mani∣fest vocation, specially in that it tendeth to the ouerthrow∣ing and making fruitlesse (if not wholy, yet partly) of the Crosse of Christ: for truely it is no base or meane thyng, to offer Christ. And therefore worthily a man may say to my Lordes and maysters the offerers: By what authority doe ye this? And who gaue you this authority? Where? when? A man can not (sayth the Baptist) take any thing, except it be geuen him frō aboue: much lesse then may any man pre∣sume to vsurp any honor, before he be therto called. Again, If any mā sin (sayth S. Ioh.) we haue (sayth he) not a masser or offerer at home,* 1.7 which can sacrifice for vs at masse: but we haue (sayth he) an aduocate Iesus Christ, which once offe∣red himselfe long ago: of which offering, the efficacy and ef∣fect is perdurable for euer, so that it is needles to haue such offerers.

What meaneth Paule, when he sayth: They that serue at the aultar, are partakers of the aultar? and so addeth: So the lord hath ordeined, that they that preach the Gospell, shall liue of the Gospell Whereas he should haue sayd: The Lord hath or∣deined, that they that sacrifice at masse, should liue of theyr sacrificing, that there might be a liuing assigned to our sa∣crificers now,* 1.8 as was before Christes comming, to the Iewish Priestes. For now they haue nothing to alleadge for theyr liuing, as they that be Preachers haue. So that it appeareth, that the sacrificing Priesthoode is chaunged by Gods ordinaunce, into a preaching Priesthoode, and the sacrificing Priesthoode shoulde cease vtterly, sauing in as much as all Christian men are sacrificing priestes.

The supper of the Lord was instituted to prouoke vs to thankes geuing, for the offering which the Lorde hym∣selfe did offer for vs,* 1.9 muche rather then that our Offciers should do there as they do. Feede (sayth Peter) as muche ••s ye may, the flock of Christ: nay rather let vs sacrifice as much as we may, for the flocke of Christ. If so be the matter be as now men make it, I can neuer wonder enough, that Pe∣ter would or could forget this office of sacrificing, which at this day is in such a price and estimation, that to feed is al∣most nothing with many. If thou cease from feeding the flocke, how shalt thou be taken? truely catholicke enough. But if thou cease from sacrificing and massing,* 1.10 howe wyll that be taken? at the leaste I warrant thee, thou shalt be called an hereticke. And whence I pray you, come these pa∣pisticall iudgementes? Except perchance they thinke a mā feedeth the flocke, in sacrificing for them: and then what needeth there any learned pastors?* 1.11 For no man is so foo∣lish, but soone may he learne to sacrifice and masse it.

Thus loe, I haue taken the more payne to write, be∣cause I refused to dispute, in consideration of my debilitye thereunto: that all men may knowe, howe that I haue so done not without great paynes, hauing not any manne to helpe me, as I haue neuer before bene debarred to haue. O sir,* 1.12 you may chaunce to liue till you come to this age and weakenes that I am of. I haue spoken in my time before 2. kinges, more then one, two or three houres together, without interruption: but nowe that I maye speake the truth (by your leaue) I could not be suffered to declare my minde before you, no, not by the space of a quarter of an houre, without snatches, reuilinges, checkes, rebukes, tauntes, such as I haue not felte the like, in such an audi∣ence, all my life long. Surely it can not be, but an heinous offence that I haue geuen. But what was it? Forsooth I had spoken of the foure marowbones of the Masse. The which kinde of speaking, I neuer read to be a sinne against the holy ghost,

I could not be alowed to shewe what I meant by my Metaphor: But sir nowe (by your fauor) I will tell your maistership what I meane.

The first is the Popish consecration: which hath bene called a Gods body making.* 1.13

The second is Transubstantiation.

The third is the Missall oblation.

The fourth adoration.

These chiefe and principall portions, partes & poyntes belonging or incident to the masse,* 1.14 and most esteemed and had in price in the same, I call y^e marowbones of the masse, which in deed you by force, might, and violence intrude in sound of wordes in some of the scripture, with racking and cramping, iniuryng, and wronging the same: but els in deede, playne out of the scripture, as I am throughly per∣swaded, although in disputation I could now nothing do, to perswade the same to others, being both vnapt to study and also to make a shew of my former study, in such readi∣nes as should be requisite to the same.

I haue heard much talke of maister Doctor Weston to and fro, in my time:* 1.15 but I neuer knew your person to my knowledge, till I came before you, as the Queenes maie∣sties Commissioner. I pray God send you so right iudge∣ment, as I perceiue you haue a great wit, great learning, with many other qualityes. God geue you grace euer wel to vse them,* 1.16 and euer to haue in remembraūce that he that dwelleth on high, looketh on the lowe things on the earth: and that there is no coūsell agaynst the Lord: and also that this world hath bene, and yet is a tottering world. And yet agayn, that though we must obey the princes, yet that hath this limitatiō, namely, in the Lord.* 1.17 For who so doth obey them agaynst the Lorde, they be most pernicious to them, and the greatest aduersaries that they haue: for they so pro∣cure Gods vengeance vpon them, if God be onely the ru∣ler of thinges.

There be some so corrupt in minde, the truth being ta∣ken from them, that they thinke gaynes to be godlinesse: Great learned men, and yet men of no learning,* 1.18 but of rai∣ling and raging about questions and strife of wordes, I call thē men of no learning, because they know not Christ, how much els so euer they know. And on this sort we are wont to call great learned clerks, being ignorant of Christ, vnlearned men: for it is nothing but playne ignoraunce,* 1.19 to knowe anye thinge without Christ: where as who so knoweth Christ, the same hath knowledge enough, al∣though in other knowledge he be to seek. The Apostle S. Paul confesseth of himselfe to the Corinthians, that he dyd know nothing, but Iesus Christ crucified. Many menne

babble many things of Christ which yet know not Christ•• but pretending Christ, do craftily colour and darken hys glory. Depart from such men, sayth the Apostle S. Paule to Timothie.

It is not out of the way to remember what S. Augu∣stine sayth. The place where, I now well remember not, except it be against the Epistles of Petilian:* 1.20 Who so euer (saith he) teacheth any thyng necessarily to be beleued, which is not contayned in the olde or new Testament, the same is ac∣cursed. Oh beware of this curse if you be wise. I am much deceyued if Basilius haue not such like words:* 1.21 What so e∣uer (saith he) is besides the holy scripture, if the same be taught as necessarily to be beleeued, that is sinne. Oh therefore take heede of this sinne.

There be some that speake many false things more pro∣bable, and more like to the truth, then to the truth it selfe. Therefore Paule geueth a watch word: Let no man (saith he) deceiue you with probabilitie and perswasions of woordes. But what meane you (saith one) by this talke so far from the matter? Well, I hope good maisters, you will suffer an old man a little to play the child, and to speake one thyng twise. Oh Lord God, you haue chaunged the most holy Communion, into a priuate action: and you deny to the Laitie the Lordes cup contrary to Christes commaunde∣ment,* 1.22 and you do blemish the annuntiation of the Lordes death till he come: for you haue chaunged the Common prayer called the diuine seruice, with the administration of the sacramentes, from the vulgar and knowen language, into a strange tongue, contrary to the wyll of the Lord re∣uealed in his word. God open the dore of your hart, to see the things you should see herein. I would as fayne obey my soueraigne as any in this realme: but in these things I can neuer do it with an vpright consciēce. God be mer∣cifull vnto vs. Amen.

Weston.

Then refuse you to dispute? Will you here then subscribe?

Lat.

No good maister, I pray you be good to an olde man. You may (if it please God) be once old, as I am: ye may come to this age, and to this debilitie.

West.

* 1.23Ye said vpon saterday last, that ye could not find the masse, nor the marybones thereof in your booke: but wee will finde a masse in that booke.

Lat.

No good M. Doctor, ye cannot.

West.

What find you then there?

Lat.

Forsooth a Communion I find there.

West.

Which Communion, * 1.24 the first or the last?

Lat.

I find no great diuersitie in them: they are one supper of the Lord, but I like the last very well.

West.

Then the first was nought belike.

Lat.

I do not wel remember wherin they differ.

West.

Then cake bread & loafe bread are all one with you. Ye call it the Supper of the Lord, but you are deceyued in that: for they had done the supper before, and therfore the Scripture sayth: Postquam coenatum est, that is, After they had supped. For ye know that S. Paul findeth fault wyth the Corrinthians, for that some of them were drunken at this supper: and ye know no man can be dronken at your Communion.

Lat.

The first was called Coena Iudaica, that is, The Iew∣ish Supper, when they did eate the Paschall Lambe toge∣ther: the other was called Coena dominica, that is, The Lordes supper.

West.

That is false, for Chrysostome denieth that. And S. Ambrose in cap. 19. prioris ad Corinthios, saith, that Mysteri∣um Eucharistiae inter coenandum datum, non est coena domini∣ca: that is, The mysterie of the sacrament, geuen as they were at supper, is not the supper of the Lord.

And Gregory Nazianzene sayth the same: Rursus Pas∣che sacra cum discipulis in coenaculo ac post coenam, dieque v∣nica ante passionem celebrat. Nos verò ea in orationis domibus, & ante coenam & post resurrectionem peragimus: that is, A∣gayne, he kept he holy feast of Passeouer with his Disci∣ples in the dinyng chamber after the supper,* 1.25 and one day before his passion. But we keepe it both in the Churches and houses of prayer, both before the supper, and also after the resurrection.

* 1.26And that first Supper was called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, can you tell what that is?

Lat.

I vnderstande no Greeke. Yet I thinke it meaneth charitie.

West.

Will you haue all thing done that Christ did then? Why, then must the Priest be hanged on the morrow. And where find you I pray you, that a woman should receyue the sacrament?

Lat.

Will you geue me leaue to turne my booke? I finde it in the xi. chapter to the Corinthians. I trow these be hys wordes: Probetautem seipsum homo, &c.

I pray you good maister what Gender is homo▪

West.

Marrie the common gender.

Cole.

It is in the Greeke, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.* 1.27

Har.

It is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that is, vir.

Lat.

It is in my booke of Erasmus translation, Probet se∣ipsum homo.

Feck.

It is Probet seipsum in deed, and therfore it importeth the Masculine gender.

Latimer.

What then? I trowe when the woman touched Christ, he said: Quis tetigit me? Scio quod aliquis me tetigit: that is, Who touched me? I know that some man tou∣ched me.

Weston.

I will be at host with you anone. When Christ was at his supper, none were with hym,* 1.28 but his Apostles onely.

Ergo, he ment no woman, if you will haue this institu∣tion kept.

Lati.

In the twelue Apostles was represented the whole Church,* 1.29 in which you will graunt both men and women to bee.

West.

So thorough the whole hereticall translated Bible, ye neuer make mention of Priest,* 1.30 tyll ye come to the put∣ting of Christ to death. Where find you then that a priest or minster, (a minstrel I may cal him wel enough) should do it of necessitie?

Lat.

A minister is a more fit name for that office,* 1.31 for y^e name of a priest importeth a sacrifice.

West.

Well, remember that ye cannot finde that a woman may receiue by scripture. M. Opponent fall to it.

Smith.

Because I perceiue that this charge is layd vppon my necke, to dispute with you: to the ende that the same may go forward after a right maner and order, I wil pro∣pose three questions, so as they are put forth vnto me. And first I aske this question of you, although the same in deed ought not to be called in question: but such is the conditi∣on of the Church, that it is alwayes vexed of the wycked sort. I aske (I say) whether Christes body be really in the sacrament?

Lat.

I trust I haue obteined of M. Prolocutor, that no mā shall exact that thyng of me, which is not in me.* 1.32 And I am sory that this worshipfull audience should be deceyued of their expectation for my sake. I haue geuen vp my mynde in writing to M. Prolocutor.

Smith.

Whatsoeuer ye haue geuen vp, it shall be registred among the Acts.

Latimer.

Disputation requireth a good memory: Ast aboli∣ta est mihi memoria, My memorie is gone cleane, and mar∣uellouslye weakened, and neuer the better I wis for the pryson.

West.

How long haue ye bene in prison?

Lat.

These three quarters of this yere.

West.

And I was in prison sixe yeres.

Lat.

The more pitie Sir.

West.

How long haue you bene of this opinion?

Lat.

It is not long sir that I haue bene of this opinion.

Weston.

The tyme hath bene when you sayd Masse full de∣uoutly.

Lat.

Yea, I cry God mercy hartily for it.

West.

Where learned you this new fanglenes?* 1.33

Lat.

I haue long sought for the truth in this matter of the Sacrament, and haue not bene of this mynde past seuen yeres: and my L. of Canterbury his booke hath especially confirmed my iudgement herein. If I could remember all therein conteined, I would not feare to answer any man in this matter.

Tres.

There are in that booke sixe hundred errors.

West.

You were once a Lutheran.

Lat••.

No, I was a Papist: For I neuer could perceiue how Luther could defend his opinion without transubstantia∣tion.* 1.34 The Tigurines once did write a booke agaynst Lu∣ther, and I oft desired God that he might liue so long to make them answer.

Weston.

Luther in hys booke De priuata Missa, sayd, that the deuill reasoned with hym, and perswaded hym that the Masse was not good. Fol. 14. Contigit me, &c Wherof it may appeare, that Luther said Masse, and the deuill disswaded hym from it.

Lat.

I do not take in hand here to defend Luthers sayings or doyngs. If he were here, he would defend himself well enough I trow. I told you before that I am not meete for disputations. I pray you read myne aunswer, wherein I haue declared my fayth.

West.

Do you beleue this, as you haue written?

Lat.

Yea Sir.

West.

Then haue you no faith.

Lat.

Then would I be sory Sir.

Tres.

It is written, Iohn. 6. Except ye shall eate the fleshe of the sonne of man, and drinke his bloud, ye shall haue no lyfe in

you.* 1.35 Which when the Capernaites and many of Christes disciples heard, they said, This is a hard saieng, &c. Now that the truth may the better appeare, here I aske of you, whe∣ther Christ speaking these wordes, did meane of his fleshe to be eaten with the mouth, or of the spirituall eatyng of the same?

Lat.

I aunswer (as Augustine vnderstandeth) that Christ meant of the spirituall eating of his flesh.

Tres.

Of what flesh ment Christ, his true flesh, or no?

Lat.

Of his true flesh, spiritually to be eaten in the supper by faith, and not corporally.

Tres.

Of what flesh ment the Capernaites?

Latimer.

Of hys true fleshe also: but to bee eaten wyth the mouth.

Tresh.

They (as ye confesse) did meane his true flesh, to be taken with the mouth.* 1.36 And Christ also (as I shall prooue) did speake of the receiuyng of his flesh with the mouth.

Ergo, they both did vnderstand it of the eating of one thing, which is done by the mouth of the body.

Lat.

I say, Christ vnderstoode it not of the bodily mouth: but of the mouth of the spirit, mynd, and hart.

Tres.

I prooue the contrary: that Christ vnderstandeth it of the eatyng with the bodily mouth. For where as cu∣stome is a right good maistresse and interpreter of things,* 1.37 and where as the actes put in practise by Christ, doe cer∣tainly declare those things which he first spake: Christes deeds in his supper, where he gaue his body to bee taken with the mouth, together with the custom which hath ben euer since that tyme, of that eating which is done with the mouth, doth euidently inferre that Christ did vnderstand his words here cited of me out of the vj. of Iohn, of the ea∣tyng with the mouth.

Lat.

He gaue not his body to be receyued with the mouth, but he gaue the sacrament of hys body to be receyued with the mouth:* 1.38 he gaue the sacrament to the mouth, his body to the mynd.

Tresham.

But my reason doth conclude, that Christ spake concernyng hys fleshe to bee receyued wyth the corporall mouth: for otherwyse (which God forbid) he had bene a deceyuer, and had bene offensiue to the Capernaites and his Disciples, if hee had not meant in this point, as they thought he ment: for if he had thought as you do fayne, it had bene an easie matter for him to haue sayd: * 1.39 You shall not eate my flesh with your mouth, but the Sacrament of my flesh: that is to say, ye shall receyue with your mouth, not the thyng it selfe, but the figure of the thyng, and thus he might haue satisfied them: but so he sayd not, but con∣tinued in the truth of his words, as he was woont: Ther∣fore Christ meant the selfe same thyng that the Capernaits dyd, I meane concerning the thyng it selfe to bee receyued with the mouth: videlicet, that his true flesh is truly to be eaten with the mouth. Moreouer, for as much as you doe expound for (corpus Christi) the body of Christ (Sacramen∣tum corporis Christi) the sacrament of the body of Christ, & hereby do suppose that we obteine but a spirituall vnion, or vnion of the mynd betweene vs and Christ, playne it is that you are deceyued in this thyng, and do erre from the mynd of the Fathers: for they affirme by playne and ex∣presse wordes, that we are corporally and carnally ioyned together. And these be the wordes of Hyllarie: Si verè igi∣tur carnem corporis nostri Christus assumpsit, & verè homo il∣le, qui ex Maria natus fuit, nos quoque verè sub mysterio carnē corporis sui sumimus, & per haec vnum erimus, quia pater in eo est, & ille in nobis. Quomodo voluntatis vnitas asseritur, cum naturalis per sacramentum proprietas perfectè Sacramentum sit vnitatis? That is, Therefore if Christ dyd truely take the flesh of our body vpon hym, and the same man be Christ in deede which was borne of Mary, then we also doe re∣ceyue vnder a mysterie, the fleshe of hys body in deede, and thereby shall become one, because the father is in hym, and he in vs. How is the vnitie of wyll affirmed, when a na∣turall proprietie, by the sacrament is a perfect Sacrament of vnitie?

Thus farre hath Hyllarie. Loe here you see how ma∣nifestly these wordes confound your assertion.* 1.40 To be short I my selfe haue heard you preachyng at Greenewich, be∣fore king Henry the eight, where you did openly affirme, that no Christian man ought to doubt of the true and reall presence of Christes body in the Sacrament, for as much as he had the worde of Scripture on his side, (videlicet, Hoc est corpus meum: This is my body: wherby he might be confirmed. But now there is the same truth: the word of Scripture hath the selfe same thyng which it then had. Therfore why do you deny at this present, that whereof it was not lawfull once to doubt before when you taught it?

Lat.

Will you geue me leaue to speake?

Tres.

Speake Latine I pray you, for ye can doe it if ye li••t, promptly enough.

Lat.

I can not speake Latine so long and so largely. Mai∣ster Prolocutor hath geuen me leaue to speake English: And as for the words of Hyllarie, I thinke they make not so much for you. But he that shall answer the Doctours, had not neede to be in my case, but should haue them in a readinesse, and know their purpose. Melancthon sayth, if the Doctours had foreseene that they should haue bene so taken in this controuersie,* 1.41 they would haue written more playnely.

Smyth.

I will reduce the words of Hyllary into the forme of a Syllogisme.

Da- Such as is the vnitie of our flesh with Christes flesh, such,* 1.42 (yea greater) is the vnitie of Christ with the Father.

ti- But the vnitie of Christs flesh with ours, is true and substantiall:

si. Ergo, the vnitie of Christ with the Father is true and substantiall.

Lat.

I vnderstand you not.

Seat.

I know your learning well enough, & how su••til ye be: I will vse a few wordes with you, and that out of Cy∣prian, De coena Domini. The old Testament doth forbidde the drinking of bloud.* 1.43 The new Testament doth cōmand the drinking and tasting of bloud: but where doth it com∣maund the drinking of bloud?

Lat.

In these wordes: Bibite ex hoc omnes: that is, Drinke ye all of this.

Seat.

Then we taste true bloud.

Latimer.

We do taste true bloud, but spiritually: and this is enough.

Seat.

Nay, the olde and new Testament in this doe * 1.44 dif∣fer: for the one doth command, and the other doth forbid to drinke bloud.

Lat.

It is true as touching the matter, but not as touching the maner of the thing.

Seat.

Then there is no difference betwene the drinkyng of bloud in the new Testament, and that of the old: for they also dranke spiritually.

Latimer.

And we drinke spiritually also, but a more preci∣ous bloud.

West.

Augustine vpon the 45. Psalme, saith: Securè bibite sanguinem quē fudistis. i. Drinke boldly the bloud which ye haue poured out.

Ergo, it is bloud.

Lat.

I neuer denied it, nor neuer wyll go from it,* 1.45 but that we drinke the very bloud of Christ in deed, but spiritually, for the same S. Augustine saith: Crede & manducasti. i. Be∣leue, and thou hast eaten.

West.

Nay, Credere, non est bibere nec edere. i. To beleue, is not to drinke or eate. You will not say, I pledge you, when I say, I beleue in God. Is not (manducare) to eate, in your learnyng put for (credere) to beleeue?

Weston.

I remember my L. Chauncellor demanded M. Hooper of these questions, whether * (Edere) to eate, were (Credere) to beleeue, and (Altare) an Aultar, were Christ, in all the Scripture, &c. And he answered yea.

Then said my Lord Chauncellor: Why, then * Habe∣mus Altare de quo non licet edere. i. Wee haue an Aultare, of which it is not lawfull to eate, is as much to say, as Habemus Christum, in quo non licet credere. i. We haue a Christ, in whom we may not beleeue.

Tres.

Beleeue, and thou hast eaten, is spoken of the spiri∣tuall eatyng.

Latimer.

It is true, I doe allowe your saying: I take it so also.

Weston.

We are commaunded to drinke bloud in the new Lawe.

Ergo, it is very bloud.

Lat.

We drinke bloud, so as appertaineth to vs to drinke to our comfort, in sacramentall wyne. We drinke bloud Sa∣cramentally: he gaue vs his bloud to drinke spiritually, he went about to shew, that as certainly as we drinke wyne, so certainly we drinke his bloud spiritually.

West.

Do not you seeme to be a papist, which do bryng in new wordes, not found in the scripture? Where find you, that (Sacramentaliter) Sacramentally, in Gods booke?

Lat.

It is necessarily gathered vpon scripture.

West.

The old Testament doth forbid the tasting of bloud, but the new doth commaund it.

Lat.

It is true, not as touching the thing, but as touchyng the maner thereof.

West.

Heare ye people, this is the argument.

That which was forbidden in the olde Testament, is commaunded in the new.

To drinke bloud was forbidden in the old Testament

and commaunded in the new.

Ergo, it is very bloud that we drink•• in the new.

¶This argument, because the Maior thereof is not vniuer∣sall, is not formall, and may well be retorted agaynst West. thus.

Ce- No naturall or morall thyng forbidden materially in the old Testament,* 1.46 is commaunded in the new.

la- To drinke mans naturall bloud, is forbidden ma∣terially in the old Testament:

rent. Ergo, to drinke mans naturall bloud materially, is not commaunded in the new.

Lat.

* 1.47It is commaunded spiritually to be dronken, I grant it is bloud dronken in the new Testament, but we receyue it spiritually.

Pie.

It was not forbidden spiritually in the old law.

Latimer.

The substance of bloud is dronken, but not in one maner.

Pie.

It doth not require the same maner of drinkyng.

Lat.

It is the same thyng, not the same manner. I haue no more to say.

Weston.

* 1.48Here Weston cited the place of Chrysostome, of Iudas treason: O Iudae dementia. Ille cum Iudaeis triginta denarijs paciscebatur, vt Christum venderet, & Christus ei san∣guinem, quem vendidit, offerebat: That is, O the madnesse of Iudas. He made bargayne with the Iewes for thirtie pence to sell Christ, and Christ offred him his bloud which he sold.

Lat.

I graunt he offred to Iudas his bloud, which he sold, but in a sacrament.

Weston.

Because ye can defend your Doctors no better, ye shall see how worshipfull men ye hang vpon, and one that hath bene of your mynd,* 1.49 shall dispute with you. M. Cart∣wright, I pray you dispute.

Cart.

Reuerend father, because it is geuen me in comman∣dement to dispute with you, I will do it gladly. But first vnderstand ere we go any further, that I was in the same errour that you are in: but I am sory for it, and do con∣fesse my selfe to haue erred. I acknowledge myne offence, and I wyshe and desire God that you also may repente wyth me.

Latimer.

* 1.50Wyll you geue me leaue to tell what hath caused M. Doctour here to recant? It is poena legis, the payne of the law, which hath brought you backe, and conuerted you, and many moe: the which letteth many to confesse God. And this is a great argument, there are few here can dissolue it.

Cartwright.

That is not my cause, but I wil make you this short Argument, by which I was conuerted from myne erroures.

* 1.51If the true bodye of Christ bee not really in the Sa∣crament, all the whole Church hath erred from the Apo∣stles tyme.

But Christ would not suffer his church to erre:

Ergo, it is the true body of Christ.

Lat.

The popish Church hath erred, & doth erre. I thinke for the space of sixe or seuen hundred yeares,* 1.52 there was no mentiō made of any eating but spiritually: for before these fiue hundred yeares, the Church did euer confesse a spiri∣tuall manducation. But the Romish church begate the er∣rour of transubstantiation. My Lord of Caunterburies booke handleth that very well, and by him I could answer you, if I had hym.

Cart.

Linus and all the rest do confesse the body of Christ to be in the Sacrament: and S. Augustine also vpon the 98. Psalme, vpon this place: Adorate scabellum pedum. &c. grā∣teth it to be worshipped.

Lat.

We doe worship Christ in the heauens, & we do wor∣ship him in the Sacrament: but the massing worship is not to be vsed.

Smyth.

Doe you thinke that Cyrill was of the auncient Church?

Lat.

I do thinke so.

Smyth.

He sayth, that Christ dwelleth in vs corporally: These be Cyrils words of the mysticall benediction.

Lat.

That (* 1.53 corporally) hath another vnderstanding, then you do grossely take it.

¶Cyrill sayth, that Christ dwelleth corporally in vs, but he sayth not that Christ dwelleth corporally in y^e bread. Which dwelling of Christ in vs, is as our dwelling is al∣so in Christ, not locall or corporall, but spiritual & heauen∣ly (corporally) therfore it is to be takē here in the same sense as S. Paul saith, the fulnes of diuinitie to dwell in Christ corporally, that is, not lightly nor accidentally, but perfect∣ly and substantially, with all his vertue and power, &c. And so dwelleth Christ corporally in vs also.

Smyth.

Here Smyth repeateth these words of Cyrill: Per communionem corporis Christi, habitat in nobis Christus cor∣poraliter: That is, By the communicating of the bodye of Christ, Christ dwelleth in vs corporally.

Latimer.

The solution of this is in my Lord of Canterbu∣ries booke.

Smyth.

Cyrill was no papist, and yet these be his wordes: Christ dwelleth in vs corporally,* 1.54 but you say he dwelleth in vs spiritually.

Latimer.

I say both: that he dwelleth in vs both corporal∣ly and spiritually, accordyng to his meanyng: Spiritual∣ly by fayth, and corporally by taking our flesh vpon hym. For I remember I haue read this in my Lord of Canter∣buries booke.

Weston

For because your learnyng is let out to Ferme, and shut vp in my Lord of Caunterburies booke. I wyll recite vnto you a place of S. Ambrose, De apparatione ad Missam, where he sayth: Videmus principem sacerdotem ad nos venientem, & offerentem sanguinem, &c. That is, Wee see the chiefe Prieste commyng vnto vs, and offeryng bloud, &c.

Likewise both Augustine in the 38. Psal. and Chryso∣stome, concerning the incomprehensible nature of God,* 1.55 Tom. 3. say: Non solum homines, &c.

Lat.

I am not ashamed to acknowledge myne ignoraunce, and these testimonies are more then I can beare away.

West.

Then must you leaue some behynde you for lacke of cariage.

Latimer.

But for Chrysostome, hee hath many figuratiue speaches, and Emphaticall loquutions, in many places,* 1.56 as in that which you haue now recited: but he sayeth not, For the quicke and the dead: he taketh the celebration for the sacrifice.

West.

You shall heare Chrysostome againe, vpon the ninth chap. of the Acts: Quid dicis? Hostia in manibus sacerdotis, &c. He doth not call it a cup of wyne.

Lat.

Ye haue myne answer there with you in a paper: and yet he calleth it not, Propitiatorium sacrificium, i. A propitia∣torie sacrifice.

West.

You shal heare it to be so: and I bring another place of Chrysostome out of the same treatise: Non temerè ab A∣postolis est institutum, &c.

Weston.

He is too precious a thing for vs to offer: he offe∣reth hymselfe.

Weston.

Here in an other place of Chrysostome to the peo∣ple of Antioche,* 1.57 Homil. 69. and also to the Philippians he sayeth: There should bee a memorye and sacrifice for the dead.

Lat.

I doe say that the holy communion beareth the name of a sacrifice, because it is a sacrifice memoratiue.

West.

How say you to the sacrifice for the dead.

Lat.

I say that it needeth not, or it booteth not.

West.

Augustine in his Enchiridion, the 110. chap. sayeth: Non est negandum defunctorum animos pietate suorum viuen∣tium releuari, quum pro illis sacrificium Mediatoris offertur:* 1.58 That is, We must not deny, that the soules of the dead are relieued by the deuotion of their friends which are liuing,* 1.59 when the sacrifice of the Mediatour is offered for them. Where he prooueth the veritie of Christes body, & praying for the dead. And it is sayd, that the same Augustine sayd masse for his mother.

Lat.

But that masse was not like yours, which thing doth manifestly appeare in his writings, which are agaynst it in euery place. And Augustine is a reasonable man, he re∣quireth to be beleued no further, then he bringeth scripture for his proofe, and agreeth with Gods word.

West.

In the same place he proueth a propiciatorie sacrifice and that vpon an aulter, and no Oyster boord.* 1.60

Lat.

It is the Lords table, and no Oyster boord. It may be called an aultar, and so the doctors call it in many places: but there is no propiciatorie sacrifice, but only Christ. The doctors might be deceiued in some points, though not in all things. * I beleeue them when they say well.

Cole.

Is it not a shame for an old man to lye? You say,* 1.61 you are of the old fathers fayth, where they say well, and yet ye are not.

Lat.

I am of their faith when they say well. I referre my selfe to my L. of Caunterburies booke wholy herein.

Smyth.

Then are you not of Chrysostomes faith, nor of S. Augustines fayth.

Lat.

I haue said, when they said well, and bring scripture for them, I am of their faith, and further Augustine requi∣reth not to be beleeued.

West.

Origen. Hom. 13. vpon Leuiticus.

Latimer.

I haue but one worde to say, Panis Sacramentalis,

the Sacramentall bread, is called a Propitiation, because it is a Sacrament of the Propitiation. What is your vo∣cation?

West.

My vocation is at this tyme to dispute, otherwise I am a Priest, and my vocation is to offer.

Lat.

Where haue you that authorttie geuen you to offer?

West.

Hoc facite, Do this, for facite in that place is taken for offerte, that is, offer you.

Lat.

* 1.62Is Facere nothing but sacrificare to sacrifice? Why then no man must receiue the sacrament but priestes onely: for there may none offer but priests.

Ergo, there may none receiue but priests.

West.

Your argument is to be denied.

Lat.

* 1.63Did Christ then offer himselfe at his supper?

Pye.

Yea, he offred himselfe for the whole world.

Latimer.

Then if this worde (Facite) Do ye, signifie Sacri∣ficate, Sacrifice ye, it followeth, (as I sayd) that none but Priestes onely ought to receiue the Sacrament, to whom it is onely lawfull to sacrifice: and where find you that, I pray you?

West.

Fourty yeare agone, whether could you haue gone to haue found your doctrine?

Lat.

The more cause we haue to thanke God, that hath now sent the light into the world.

West.

* 1.64The light? Nay lite and lewd Preachers: for you could not tell what you might haue: Ye altered & changed so often your communions and altars, and all for this one end, to spoile and rob the Church.

Latimer.

These things pertayne nothyng to mee. I must not aunswere for other mens deedes, but onely for myne owne.

West.

Well, M. Latimer, this is our entent, to wyll you well, and to exhort you to come to your selfe, and remem∣ber that without Noes Arke, there is no health. Remem∣ber what they haue bene that were the beginners of your doctrine, none but a few flying Apostataes, runnyng out of Germany for feare of the fagot. Remember what they haue bene which haue set forth the same in this Realme: A sort of flyngbraines and light heads, which were neuer constant in any one thyng, as it was to be seene in the tur∣nyng of the Table, where lyke a sort of Apes, they coulde not tell which way to turne their tailes,* 1.65 looking one day West, and another day East, one that way, and an other this way. They will be lyke (they say) to the Apostles, they wyll haue no Churches. A houell is good enough for them. They come to the Communion with no reuerence. They get them a Tankard, and one sayth, I drinke, and I am thankfull:* 1.66 the more ioy of thee, sayth another. And in them was it true that Hyllary sayth: Annuas & mēstru∣as de deo fides facimus▪ id est, We make euery yere and euery month a fayth. A runnagate Scot did take away the ado∣ration or worshipping of Christ in the Sacrament: by whose procurement that heresie was put into the last Cō∣munion booke:* 1.67 so much preuayled that one mans autho∣ritie at that tyme. You neuer agreed with the Tygurines or Germaines, or with the Churche, or with your selfe. Your stubbornnesse commeth of a vayne glory, which is to no purpose: for it will do you no good when a fagot is in your beard. And we see all by your owne confession, how little cause you haue to be stubborn, for your learning is in scoffers hold. The Queenes grace is mercifull, if ye will turne.

Lat.

You shall haue no hope in me to turne, I pray for the Queene daily euen from the bottome of my hart, that she may turne from this religion.

West.

Here you all see the weakenes of heresie against the truth: he denieth all truth, and all the old fathers.

HEre all good Readers maye see how this glorious Prolocutor triumpheth: but whether he hath the vic∣torye or no, that I suppose they haue not yet, neyther heard nor seene. And geue that he had the victory, yet what great meruayle was it, disputyng as hee dyd, Non sine suo Theseo: that is, not without his tipplyng cuppe stan∣ding at his elbow all the time of his disputation, notwith∣out a priuy notyng and smilyng of them that beheld the matter, but specially at that tyme, when Doctour Ridley disputyng with one of the Opponentes, the sayd Prolo∣cutor tooke the cuppe, and holding it in hys hand, sayd to the Opponent: Vrge hoc. vrge hoc: Nam hoc facit pro no∣bis. In which wordes as he mooued no little mat∣ter of laughter to the beholders thereof:* 1.68 so I thought here also not to leaue the same vnmentioned, somwhat also to de∣light the Reader withal, af∣ter his tedious weari∣nes in reading the story therof.

Notes

• * 1.1

  The three con∣clusions.
• * 1.2

  The aunsweres of M. Latimer geuen vp in writing concer∣ning the questi∣ons aforesaid.
• * 1.3

  The presence of Christ in the sa∣crament, how it is a reall pre∣sence.
• * 1.4

  Answere to the 2. conclusion.
• * 1.5

  Answere to the 3. conclusion.
• * 1.6

  Heb. 1. The taking a∣way of sinnes depēdeth rather in the person of the offerer then in the thing of∣fered, but that he that was the offerer was of∣fered himselfe.
• * 1.7

  1. Iohn. 2.
• * 1.8

  The sacrificing Priesthoode chaunged into a Preaching Priesthood.
• * 1.9

  The 〈◊〉〈◊〉 cause 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Supper 〈◊〉〈◊〉 o••••deyned.
• * 1.10

  Sacrifie•••• taketh a∣way pre••∣ching.
• * 1.11

  Prepost∣rous iud••∣ment of ••••¦piste••.
• * 1.12

  M. Lati•••••• found 〈◊〉〈◊〉 audience with 〈◊〉〈◊〉 & Princ•••• then wi•••• rusticall 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.13

  The 4. M••∣rybones the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 by M. Lati∣mer 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.14

  Con••ec••••∣tion. Transub••∣t••ation. Oblatio••. Adorati••••
• * 1.15

  The iud••∣ment of Latimer D. 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• * 1.16

  Pride of Westo•• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 tou∣ched.
• * 1.17

  Obedie•••••• to Princ•• hath 〈…〉〈…〉
• * 1.18

  Knowle•••••• withou•• Christ, mere ig••••••raunce.
• * 1.19

  Many 〈◊〉〈◊〉 be which vnder p••••∣tense of Christ, darken 〈◊〉〈◊〉 glory o•• Christ.
• * 1.20

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.21

  〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.22

  The 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉〈…〉 in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the ••ords Sup∣••er.
• * 1.23

  But God saw it good that Westō 〈◊〉〈◊〉 c••me to his age.
• * 1.24

  By this first and se∣cond co••∣••union, he ••eaneth the two 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of ••••blicke 〈◊〉〈◊〉 set forth in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ed∣wards daies 〈◊〉〈◊〉 one in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 begin∣••••ng, the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 end of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 reigne. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Weston 〈…〉〈…〉 the 〈◊〉〈◊〉, of the ••ords Sup∣per.

  〈…〉〈…〉 Do∣••••nica ••hrisost. in Cor. cap.
• * 1.25

  ••reg Na∣••••••zenus.
• * 1.26

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. 1. 〈…〉〈…〉 ••eastes 〈◊〉〈◊〉 wont 〈◊〉〈◊〉 be geuen the 〈…〉〈…〉 in his 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.27

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. 1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.28

  Argument.
• * 1.29

  The Apostles represented the whole Church.
• * 1.30

  Weston scorneth the name of Minister.
• * 1.31

  The name of Minister more fit thē the name of Priest.
• * 1.32

  M. Latimer mo∣destly maketh himselfe vnable to dispute.
• * 1.33

  Then they hist and clapt their handes at him. M. Latimer con∣firmed by Doct. Crāmers booke.
• * 1.34

  The zeale of M. Latymer some∣tymes in Popery agaynst the Ty∣gurines.

  In that booke the deuill doth not dissuade him so much from saying Masse, as to bring him to desperation for saying Masse, such temptatiōs many times happen to good men.
• * 1.35

  Here Tresham b••gan to dispute in Latin.
• * 1.36

  D. Treshams argument with∣out forme or mode, conclu∣ding affirma∣tiuely in the 2. figure.
• * 1.37

  D Tresham fly∣eth to Custome.
• * 1.38

  The Sacrament geuen to the mouth the body to sayth.
• * 1.39

  And what doth Christ els meane by these words where he sayth▪ My words be spirite & lyfe: the flesh pro••••∣teth nothing.
• * 1.40

  M. Latimer charged to preach the con∣trary doctrine before the king at Grenewich.
• * 1.41

  Melancto iudgemen•• of the o••d Doctours
• * 1.42

  Argumen••••
• * 1.43

  D. Seton reasoneth against M▪ Latimer 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of S. Cy∣prian.
• * 1.44

  By that rea∣son the ne•• & old testa∣mēt should not differ, but should be contra•••• one frō the other, which can••not be tru•• in naturall or morall precepts.
• * 1.45

  Edere in some place is taken fo•• credere: b•• that in all places it is so taken 〈◊〉〈◊〉 foloweth not.

  This place of the He∣brewes a∣luded to the old Sacri∣fice of the Iewes, who in the sea of propiti••∣tion the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 day, vsed cary the flesh of the sacrifice 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to be bur∣ned on an Altar wi••••••out, becau•••• none of the which ser∣ued in the Tabernac•••• should 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thereof: o••••ly the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 was cary by the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Priest into the holy place.
• * 1.46

  Westons 〈…〉〈…〉.
• * 1.47

  ••••nswere.
• * 1.48

  Chrysost.
• * 1.49

  ••. Cart∣••ryght ••rged to 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Cartwright returning to 〈◊〉〈◊〉 olde 〈◊〉〈◊〉 agayne.
• * 1.50

  Argumen∣••••m a poena ••••gis Durū 〈…〉〈…〉.
• * 1.51

  Argum. a 〈…〉〈…〉, ad & ••fficile.
• * 1.52

  〈◊〉〈◊〉 mentiō 〈…〉〈…〉 eating, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 spiritu∣ally in the Church for 〈◊〉〈◊〉 space of 〈◊〉〈◊〉. yeares.
• * 1.53

  ••yrillus in 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Lib. cap. 13.
• * 1.54

  The immodest behauiour of this Iacke sco••∣ner to be noted.
• * 1.55

  August. in Psal. 31. Chrisost De incomprehensi∣bili Dei nat••••a.
• * 1.56

  Chrisost. full of figuratiue speaches and Emphaticall lo∣quutions.

  Chrisost. in Act. cap. 9
• * 1.57

  Chrisost. ad po∣pulum Antioch. Hom. 69
• * 1.58

  August Enche∣rid. cap. 110.
• * 1.59

  August. falsly belyed to say Masse for his Mother.
• * 1.60

  The blasphe∣mous mouth of D. Weston, cal∣ling the Lordes table an Oyster bord.
• * 1.61

  Doctores le∣gen••i sunt cum venia.
• * 1.62

  Facere, for sacri∣ficare, with D. Weston.
• * 1.63

  If Christ offered himselfe at the Supper, and the next day vpon the Crosse, then was Christ twise offered.
• * 1.64

  Westōs rayling.
• * 1.65

  D. Westons Apes haue tayles.
• * 1.66

  Blasphemous lyes of D. Westō sitting in Ca∣thedra pestilen∣tiae.
• * 1.67

  Who be these or where be they M. Oblo∣cutor, that will be lyke the A∣po••tles that will haue no Chur∣ches that be runnagates. out of Germany that get them tancardes? that make monthly faythes? that worship not Christ in all his Sacramentes? Speake truth mā and shame the deuill.
• * 1.68

  Vrge hoc quoth Weston, with his berepot.