Actes and monuments of matters most speciall and memorable, happenyng in the Church. [vol. 2, part 1] with an vniuersall history of the same, wherein is set forth at large the whole race and course of the Church, from the primitiue age to these latter tymes of ours, with the bloudy times, horrible troubles, and great persecutions agaynst the true martyrs of Christ, sought and wrought as well by heathen emperours, as nowe lately practised by Romish prelates, especially in this realme of England and Scotland. Newly reuised and recognised, partly also augmented, and now the fourth time agayne published and recommended to the studious reader, by the author (through the helpe of Christ our Lord) Iohn Foxe, which desireth thee good reader to helpe him with thy prayer.

Talke betweene mayster Bradford and two Spanishe Fryers.

VPpon the 25. day of February,* 1.1 about 8. of the clock in the morning, two Spanish Fryers came to the Coū∣ter where Bradford was prisoner: to whō Bradford was called. Then the one Fryer, which was the kinges Con∣fessor, asked in Latin (for all their talke was in Latin) of Bradford, whether he had not seene nor heard of one Al∣phonsus that had written agaynst heresies?

Brad.

I do not know him.

Confes.

Well this man (poynting to Alphonsus) is he.* 1.2 Wee are come to you of loue and charitie, by the meanes of the Earle of Darby, because you desired to conferre with vs.

Brad.

I neuer desired your comming, nor to conferre with you, or any other. But seeing you are come of charitie, as you say, I cannot but thanke you: and as touchyng con∣ference, though I desire it not, yet I wil not refuse to talk with you, if you will.

Alphon.

It were requisite that you did praye vnto God, that ye might follow the direction of Gods spirite, that he woulde inspire you so that ye be not addict to your owne selfe will or wyt.

[illustration]

❧ The talke betwene M. Bradford, and two Spanish Fryers.

Brad.

Whereupon Bradford made a prayer, and besought God to direct all theyr willes,* 1.3 wordes, and works, as the wils, wordes, and workes of his children for euer.

Alph.

Yea, you must pray with your hart. For if you speak but with toung onely, God will not geue you his grace.

Brad.

Syr do not iudge, least ye be iudged. You haue heard my words, now charity would haue you to leaue y^e iudge∣ment of the hart to God.

Alph.

You must be as it were a neuter, and not wedded to your selfe, but as one standing in doubt: pray and be ready to receiue what God shall enspire, for in vain laboreth our toung to speake els.

Brad.

Syr my sentence, if you meane it for Religion, must not be in a doubting or vncertain,* 1.4 as I thanke God I am certayne in that for which I am condēned: I haue no cause to doubt of it, but rather to be most certayne of it, and ther∣fore I praye God to confirme mee more in it. For it is his trueth, and because it is so certayne and true that it may a∣bide the light, I dare be bold to haue it looked on, and con∣ferre it with you, or any man: in respect wherof I am both glad of your comming, and thanke you for it.

Alph.

What is the matter whereof you were condemned? we know not.

Brad.

Syr I haue bene in prison almost 2. yeares: I neuer transgressed any of theyr lawes wherefore I might iustlye be prisoned,* 1.5 & now am I condēned onely because I franck¦ly confessed (wherof I repēt not) my fayth concerning the sacrament, when I was demaūded in these 2. poynts: one that there is no transubstantiation: the other, that the wic∣ked do not receiue Christes body.

Alph.

Let vs looke a little on the firste. Doe you not beleue that Christ is present really, and corporally in the forme of bread?

Brad.

No, I do beleue that Christ is present to the fayth of the worthy receiuer, as there is present bread and wyne to the sences and outward man:* 1.6 as for any such presēce of in∣cluding and placing Christ, I beleue not, nor dare beleue.

Alph.

I am sure you beleue Christes naturall body is cir∣cūscriptible. And here he made much ado of the 2. natures of Christ, how that the one is euery where, & the other is in his proper place, demaūding such questions, as no wise man would haue spent any time about. At length, because the Frier had forgotten to conclude, Bradforde put him in mind of it, and thus then at length he concluded: how that because Christes bodye was circumscriptible concernyng the humayne nature in heauen, therefore it was so in the bread.

Brad.

How hangeth this together? Euen as if you should say: because you are here, Ergo it must needes followe that you are at Rome. For this you reason: Because Christes bodye is in heauen, Ergo it is in the Sacrament vnder the forme of bread: which no wise man will graunt.

Alph.

Why, will you beleue nothing, but that which is ex∣pressely spoken in the Scriptures?

Brad.

Yes Syr, I will beleue whatsoeuer you shall by de∣monstratian out of the Scripture declare vnto me.

Alph.

He is obstinate, quoth Alphonsus to his felow: and then turning to Bradford sayd, is not God able to do it?* 1.7

Brad.

Yes, but here the question is of Gods will, and not of his power.

Alph.

Why? doth he not say playnely, this is my body?

Brad.

Yes, and I deny not but that it is so, to the fayth of the worthy receyuer.

Alph.

To the fayth? how is that?

Brad.

Forsooth Syr as I haue no toung to expresse it: so I know ye haue no eares to heare & vnderstand it. For fayth is more then man can vtter.

Alph.

But I can tell all that I beleue.

Brad.

You beleue not much then. For if you beleue y^e ioyes of heauen, and beleue no more therof then you can tell, you wil not yet desire to come thither. For as the mind is more capable & receiueable thē the mouth: so it conceiueth more then toung can expresse.

Alph.

Christ sayth it is his body.

Brad.

And so say I, after a certayne maner.

Alph.

After a certayne maner? that is,* 1.8 after an other maner then it is in heauen.

Brad.

S, Augustine telleth it more playnely, that it is chri∣stes body after the same maner as Circumcision was the couenaunt of God, and the Sacrament of fayth is fayth: or to make it more playne, as baptisme and the water of bap∣tisme is regeneration.

Alph.

Uery well sayd, Baptisme and the water therof is a Sacrament of Gods grace & spirite in the water clensing the Baptised.

Brad.

No Syr, away w^t your enclosing but this I graunt, that after the same sort Christes bodye is in the breade, on which sort the grace and spirit of God is in the water.

Alph.

In water is Gods grace by signification.

Brad.

So is the body in the bread in the Sacrament.

Alph.

You are much deceiued in that you make no differēce betwene the Sacramentes that be standers, and the sacra∣mentes that are transitory and passers by. As for example, the Sacrament of Order, which you deny, though S. Au∣gustine affirme it, it is a standerd, although the ceremony be past. But in Baptisme so soone as the bodye is washed, the water ceaseth not to be a Sacrament.

Brad.

Uery good, and so it is in the Supper of the Lord: no

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longer then it is in vse, is it Christes Sacrament.

Here was the Fryer in a wonderfull rage, and spake so high (as often he had done before) that the whole house rang agayne, cha••ing with om and cho. Hee hath a greate name of learning,* 1.9 but surely hee hath little pacience. For if Bradford had bene any thing hote, one house coulde not haue held them. At the length hee commeth to this poynt, that Bradford coulde not finde in the Scripture Baptisme and the Lordes Supper to beare any similitude together. And here he triūphed before the conquest, saying that these men would receiue nothing but scripture, and yet were a∣ble to proue nothing by the Scripture.

Brad.

* 1.10Be pacient, & you shall see that by the Scripture I will finde Baptisme & the Lords supper coupled together.

Alph.

No, that canst thou neuer do. Let me see a text of it.

Brad.

Paule sayth: That as we are Baptised into one bodye: so were we potati in vno spiritu: that is: we haue dronk of one spi∣rit, meaning of the cup in the Lordes Supper.

Alphon.

Paule hath no such wordes.

Brad.

Yes that he hath.

Confes.

I trow he hath not.

Brad.

Geue me a Testament, and I will shew you.

* 1.11So a Priest that sat by them, gaue him his Testamēt, and he shewed them the playne text. Then they looked one vpon an other. In fi••e the Friers found this simple shift, that Paule spake not of the Sacrament.

Brad.

Well the texte is playne enough, and there are of the fathers which do so vnderstand the place: For Chrisostom doth expound it so.

Alphon.

Alphonsus which had the Testament in his hand, desirous to suppresse this foyle, turned the leaues of y^e book from leafe to leafe, till he came to the place. 1. Cor. 11. & there he read how that he was guilty, which made no difference of the Lordes body.

Brad.

Yea, but therewith he sayth: He that eateth of the bread: calling it bread still,* 1.12 and that after consecration (as ye call it) as in the 10. to the Corinthians he saith: The bread which we breake.* 1.13 &c.

Alphon.

Oh how ignoraunt are ye, which know not that thinges after theyr conuersion doe reteine the same names which they had before,* 1.14 as Moses rod: and calling for a by∣ble, after he had found the place, he began to triumph: But Bradford cooled him quickely, saying:

Brad.

Syr, there is mension made of the conuersiō, as wel, as that the same appeared to the sence. But here ye can not finde it so.* 1.15 Find me one word how the bread is cōuerted, & I will then say, ye bring some matter that maketh for you

Alph.

At these wordes the Frier was troubled, & at length he sayd, how that Bradford hanged on his owne sence.

Brad.

No, that do I not: for I will bring you forth the Fa∣thers of the Church 800. yeares after Christ, to confyrme this which I speake.

Alph.

No you haue the Church agaynst you.

Brad.

I haue not Christes Church agaynst me.

Alph.

Yes that you haue. What is the Church?

Brad.

Christes wife, the chayre and seat of verity.

Alph.

Is she visible?

Brad.

Yea that she is to then that will put on the spectacles of Gods word to looke on her.* 1.16

Alph.

This Church hath defined the contrary, and that I will proue by all the good Fathers from Christes Ascensiō euen for 800. yeares at the least continually.

Brad.

What will you so proue? Transubstantiation?

Alph.

Yea, that the bread is turned into Christes body.

Brad.

You speake more then you can do.

Alph.

That do I not.

Brad.

Then will I geue place.

Alph.

Will you beleue?

Brad.

Beliefe is Gods gift: therfore can not I promise: but I tell you that I will geue place: and I hope I shal beleue his truth alwayes, so good is he to me in Christ my sauior.

Alph.

Here the Frier founde a great faulte with Bradford that he made no difference betwixte habitus,* 1.17 and actus: as though actus which he called crudelity, had bene in our po∣wer. But this he let passe, & came agayne asking Bradford if he could proue it as he said, whether he wuld geue place.

Brad.

Yea that I will. Then called he for paper, pen & inke, to write, and then sayd I: what and if that I proue by the testimony of the Fathers, that continually for viij. hun∣dreth yeres after Christ at the least, they did beleue that the substance of bread doth remayne in the Sacrament? what will you do?

Alph.

I will geue place.

Brad.

Then write you here that you will geue place if I so proue, & I will write that I wil geue place if you so proue: because ye are the auncient, ye shall haue the preheminence.

* 1.18Here the Frier fumed maruellously, and sayde: I came not to learne at thee, Are not here witnesses? (meaning the two Priestes) be not they sufficient? But the man was so chafed, that if Bradford had not passed ouer this matter of writing, the Frier would haue fallen to playne scolding.

Confes.

At the length the kinges Confessour asked Brad∣ford what the second question was?

Brad.

That wicked men receiue not Christes bodye in the Sacrament, as S. Augustine speaketh of Iudas, that hee receiued Panem Domini, but not Panem Dominum.

Alph.

S. Augustine sayth not so.

Brad.

Yes that doth he.* 1.19 So they arose and talked no more of that matter. Thus went they away, without byddyng Bradford farewell.

A Priest.

After they were none, one of the Priestes came, & willed Bradford not to be so obstinate.

Brad.

Syr, be not you so wauering: in all the scripture can not you finde me, non est panis.

Priest.

Yes that I can in fiue places.

Brad.

Then I will eat your booke.* 1.20 So the booke was ope∣ned, but no place foūd: and he went his way smiling. God helpe vs.

Notes

• * 1.1

  The talke betweene certayne ••riers and M. Bradfo••••
• * 1.2

  This Al∣phonsus had write a booke 〈…〉〈…〉 La∣tin, agayn•••• heresies.
• * 1.3

  Bradford willed to pray 〈◊〉〈◊〉 his prayer.
• * 1.4

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.5

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.6

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.7

  Christ is able to doe it: Ergo, he doth it.
• * 1.8

  Hoc est corpus meum.

  Quodam modo. Augustinus E∣pistola ad Boni∣facium.

  Argument. As grace is in the water of baptisme so is the body in the Sacrament. But grace is in the water by signification: Ergo so is the body in the Sa∣crament.

  A Popish di∣stinction of Sa∣cramentes.
• * 1.9

  The Frier in a chafe.
• * 1.10

  The Sacrament of the Lordes table compared with baptisme in the scripture. 1. Cor. 12.
• * 1.11

  The Fryer pro∣ued a lyer in his owne testament.
• * 1.12

  1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.13

  1. Cor. 10.
• * 1.14

  Conuersion is mentioned in turning Moyses rod, so is it not in the Sacramēt.
• * 1.15

  Moyses rod was seene to be tur∣ned so is not the Sacrament.
• * 1.16

  The Church is visible, but to them that haue spirituall eyes.
• * 1.17

  The Papistes holde that the acte of beleuing is in mans pow∣er.
• * 1.18

  The Fryer refu∣seth to abide try all with Bradford.
• * 1.19

  The Fry•••• agayne p••••••ued a 〈◊〉〈◊〉▪ The Fry•••• depart in a heate from M. Brad∣ford.
• * 1.20

  A priest 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to a foyle.