The blovdy tenent, of persecution, for cause of conscience, discussed, in a conference betweene trvth and peace vvho, in all tender affection, present to the high court of Parliament, as the result of their discourse, these, amongst other passages, of highest consideration.

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Title
The blovdy tenent, of persecution, for cause of conscience, discussed, in a conference betweene trvth and peace vvho, in all tender affection, present to the high court of Parliament, as the result of their discourse, these, amongst other passages, of highest consideration.
Author
Williams, Roger, 1604?-1683.
Publication
London :: [s.n.],
1644.
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Subject terms
Religious tolerance -- History -- 17th century.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A66445.0001.001
Cite this Item
"The blovdy tenent, of persecution, for cause of conscience, discussed, in a conference betweene trvth and peace vvho, in all tender affection, present to the high court of Parliament, as the result of their discourse, these, amongst other passages, of highest consideration." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A66445.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 14, 2024.

Pages

CHAP. CXXX.

Truth.

I May well compare this passage to a double picture:* 1.1 on the first part or side of it a most faire and beautifull counte∣nance of the pure and holy Word of God: on the later side or part, a most sowre and uncomely deformed looke of a meere humane in∣vention.

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Concerning the former, they prove the true and unquestionable power and priviledge of the Churches of Christ* 1.2 to assemble and pra∣ctise all the holy Ordinances of God, without or against the consent of the Magistrate.

Their Arguments from Christs and the Angels voyce, from the Apostles and Churches practice, I desire may take 〈◊〉〈◊〉 impression written by the point of a diamond, the finger of Gods spirit, in all hearts whom it may concerne.

This Libertie of the Churches of Christ he inlargeth and ampli∣fieth so far, that he calls it an usurpation of some Magistrates to determine the time and place of Worship: and say, that rather the Churches should be left to their inoffensive libertie.

Upon which Grant I must renew my former Quaerie, Whether this be not to walke in cntradictions, to hold with light, yet walke in darknes?* 1.3 for

How can they say the Magistrate is appointed by God and Christ the Guardian of the Christian Church and Worship, bound to set up the true Church, Ministrie, and Ordinances, to see the Church doe her duty, that is, to force her to it by the Civill sword: bound to suppresse the false Church, Ministrie and Ordinances, and therefore consequently,* 1.4 to judge and determine which is the true Church, which is the false, and what is the duty of the Church officers and members of it, and what not: and yet (say they) the Churches must assemble, and practice all Ordinances, without his consent, yea against it: Yea and he hath not so much power as to judge what is a con∣venient time and place for the Churches to assemble in; which if he should doe, he should be an usurper, and should abridge the Church of her inoffensive libertie.

As if the Master or Governour of a Ship had power to judge who were true and fit officers, mariners &c. for the managing of the Ship,* 1.5 and were bound to see them each performe his duty, and to force them thereunto, and yet he should be an usurper if hee should abridge them of meeting and managing the vessel at their plea∣sure, when they please, and how they please, without and against his consent: Certainly if a Physician have power to judge the dsease of his patient, and what course of Physicke he must use, can he bee counted an usurper unlesse the patient might take what physicke him∣selfe pleased, day or night, summer or winter, at home in his cham∣ber, or abroad in the aire?

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Secondly, by their grant in this passage that Gods people may thus assemble and practice ordinances without and against the con∣sent of the Magistrate. Iinfer,* 1.6 then also may they become a Church, constitute and gather without or against the consent of the Magi∣strate: Therefore may the Messengers of Christ, preach and baptise, that is, make disciples and wash them into the true profession of Chri∣stianity according to the commission, though the Magistrate deter∣mine and publikly declare, such Ministers, such baptismes, such Chur∣ches to be hereticall.

Thirdly, it may here be questioned what power is now given to the Civill Magistrate in Church matters and Spirituall affairs?

If it be answered that although Gods people may doe thus against the Magistrates consent, yet others may not.

I answer (as before) who sees not herein partiality to themselves:* 1.7 Gods people must enjoy their Liberty of Conscience, and not be for∣ced; but all the Subjects in a Kingdome or Monarchie, or the whole world beside, must be compelled by the power of the Civill Sword to assemble thus and thus.

Secondly, I demand who shall judge whether they are Gods people or no,* 1.8 for they say whether the Magistrate consent or consent not, that is judge so or not, they ought to goe on in the Ordinances renuente Magistratu?

How agrees this with their former and generall assertion, that the Civill Magistrate must set up the Christian Church and Worship, therefore by their owne grant he must judge the godly themselves, he must discerne who are fit matter for the House of God, living stones, and what unfit matter, trash and rubbish?

Those worthy men, the Authours of these positions, and others of their judgement have cause to examine their soules with feare and trembling in the presence of God upon this intergatory,* 1.9 viz. whether or no this be not the bottome and root of the matter: If they could have the same supply of maintenance without the helpe of the Ci∣vill Sword, or were perswaded to live upon the voluntary contribu∣tion of poore Saints, or their owne labour, as the Lord Iesus and his first Messengers did: I say, if this lay not in the bottom, whether or no they could not be willingly shut of the Civill power, and left on∣ly to their inoffensive liberties?

I could also put a sad Quaerie to the consciences of some,* 1.10 viz. what should be the reason why in their native Country where the Magi∣strate

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consented not, they forbore to practice such Ordinances as now they doe and intended to doe, so soone as they got into ano∣ther place where they might set up Magistrates of their owne, and a Civill Sword, &c. How much is it to be feared that in case their Magistracie should alter, or their persons be cast under a Magistra∣cie prohibiting their practice, whether they would then maintaine their separate meetings without and against the consent of the Ma∣gistrate, renuente Magistratu?

Lastly, it may be questioned how it comes to passe that in plea∣ding for the Churches liberty more now under the Christian Magi∣strate, since the Christians tooke that liberty in dangerous times under the Heathen,* 1.11 why he quotes to prove such liberty, Pharaohs hindring the Israelites from worship, and Ezra 7. 23. Artaxerxes his feare of wrath upon the Realme?

Are not all their hopes and arguments built upon the Christian Magistrate, whom (say they) the first Christians wanted, and yet do they scare the Christian Magistrate (whom they account the gover∣nour of the Church) with Pharaoh and Artaxerxes that knew not God, expecting that the Christian Magistrate should act and com∣mand no more in Gods worship then they?

But what can those instances of Pharaohs evill in hindring the Israelites worshipping of God, and Artaxerxes giving liberty to Is∣rael to worship God, and build the Temple, what can they prove but a duty in all P••••ces and Civill Magistrates to take off the yoake of bondage, which commonly they lay on the necks of the soules of their subjects in matters of Conscience and Religion?

Notes

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