A survey of the Survey of that summe of church-discipline penned by Mr. Thomas Hooker ... wherein the way of the churches of N. England is now re-examined ...
Rutherford, Samuel, 1600?-1661.
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The Congragation in its abstract nature is not the first subject of the Keyes.

Mr. H. pag. 218. TH Key▪ as we have heard, is a power delegated from Christ to disponse and administer the holy things of his House.

Ans. Why then give you the dispensing of * the holy things of God, given to Aaron and his sons, and the keeping of the charge of the Lord, and the judging of his House, and the keeping of his Counts, given to the High-priest Ioshua, and, in his person, prophecied to the given to the officers of the New Testament, Zech. 3. 7. to any unof∣ficed men? and whether doth not the Lord prophecy in the new Temple builtunder the Messiah, Ezek 44. (for its neither the first nor second Temple spo•… of 〈◊〉) that New Testa∣ment-Levites Page  358 (no question not the unofficed brethren) should keep the charge of the Lords holy things, and should be porters to keep the doors of the Lords sanctuary, to hold out the uncircum∣cised in heart and flsh, v. 8, 9, 10, 11. as Paul saith, 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles? are all Prophets? are all Teachers? are all New Testament-Levites?

Mr. H. What is meant by the Catholick and visible Church, I cannot know by Mr. R.

Sometimes he seems to cast the Catholick visible Church upon the general nature of a Congregation.

Ans. It but seems so, and to onely Mr. H. to no living man else.

Mr. H. To what principal subject hath the Lord (saith Mr. R.) given reason, and the faculty of discoursing? Is it to Peter or John? No, its for and to the race of mankinde, Lib. 2. p. 291.

Ans. Ergo, God hath given the Keyes to and for a single * congregation of 40 or 50 visible Saints; that is none of my Logick: but, Ergo, to the Catholick guides all of them, as to the first and formal subject, and to the Catholick visible Church, as for the principal end and adequate object. Here is plain e∣nough expression, 1 Cor. 12. 28, God hath placed in the Church first Apostles, &c. Sure the Lord never meant to place Apostles, whose flock was all Nations, Mat. 28. 19, 20. as fixed members and pastors of your Independent flock of 40, which is no more countable for their doings to any on earth but to Christ onely, in a juridical way, than the Pope.

Mr. H. Sometime Mr. R. his expressions seem to intimate an Ocumonick Councel, or a Representative Catholick Church, sometime a Catholick visible, as it is totum integrale, of an inte∣gral nature.

Ans. Both these, with Protestant Divines, I own; the one, as the first subject, whether convened in a Synod, or scattered, I shall, God willing, declare; the other as the object and the end of the Keys.

Mr. H. We say a congregation of visible Saints covenanting to walk in the Ordinances of the Gospel is the prime and original*subject of the power of the Keys; we understand it not of this or that individual congregation, as though they onely had it, and none Page  359 but they, and they had it firstly, and all of them; but because its a congregation of such. This is our Saviours meaning, Mat. 16. I will build my Church, taking a visible congregation of visible cove∣nanting believers, as that which is a pattern and samplar (as I may so speak) which leaves an impression upon all the particulars, as common to all, and is preserved in all.

Ans. If the Church congregational as congregational, not as this or that congregation, be built on the Rock, then this or that congregation must of necessity be also built on the Rock. If man as man be rational, then so are all individual men, Peter, Iohn, Anna; if the congregational Church as such, be built on the Rock, then this or that congregation, &c. must be built on the Rock. Quod conveni〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, convenit〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. But this pre∣sently Mr. H. recals, This or that visible Church may, doth, and will fail. But this or that visible congregation partakes of the common nature of a congregational Church; and what reason this Church more than this should fall off the Rock, since the promise is made to the congregation in its common nature? then of necessity the Church must have the promise upon some other account than as the congregation in its common na∣ture.

Mr. H. Each particular congregation is complete and indepen∣dent*for the exercise of all acts and dispensations belonging to a con∣gregation or Church, without any reference to any other congrega∣tion, because they are distinct species, which firstly and equally participate of the nature of the genus, or the general nature of the Church.

Ans. 1. Then are there no clamours raised against you by * those who say, It is most unjust that 10, or 30, or 40 should be an Independent Male▪ Judicature (as if others had no souls) countable onely to Jesus Christ for their administration.

2. By Mr. Cotton his true principles, they are not independent within themselves to exercise all acts belonging to a congregation; for Synods not onely have power to give light and counsel in matters of truth and practise, but also to command and enjoyn the things to be believed and done.

1. If then the Synod hath a share of the Keys, the single congregation must be too narrow a first subject of the Keys, Page  360 especially when the Synod as the Synod hath the power of the Keys to command the Churches as the Churches, and several congregations. 2. So the necessity of being circumcised or not circumcised, if we would be saved, Act. 15. must belong to a congregation, and to all the congregations of Anti••h, of Ierusalem, &c. then the Lord Jesus hath not given a power in∣dependent to any single congregation, to exercise all acts and all dispensations belonging to them: for sure they cannot de∣termine in a matter belonging to other Churches, and more be∣longing to other Churches than to themselves, because of the multitude of concerned Churches, but they must no less impose upon the consciences of other Churches, if the same seem good to the holy Ghost, and to them onely, (otherwise its a bastard de∣termination) then if they should determine it contrary to the knowledge of their own Church congregational, and members thereof.

2. Mr. H. takes the word Congregation and Church for all one, against the Grammar of the holy Ghost, who taketh the * word Church even in the New Testament, for the collection of believers, agreeing in one Faith, one common Rdemtion▪ common Saviour, common hope of Glory, though they be 〈◊〉 a congregation that meets in one place, Eph. 5▪ 23, 25, 27, 29. & 1. 22. Col. 1 18. Hb▪ 12. 23.

3. The reason why they are independent in the exercise of all acts and disp••sations belonging to a Cong•…gation or Church, to wit, because they are distinct▪ species and Churches different in nature, is most frvolous; for beside, that the reason is false, except Christ the Head of one congregation be different in nature from the same Christ the Head of another congregation, and their Faith, Baptism, Hope of their calling, be different in nature; whereas they are all one in nature, in all the whole Catholick Body, Eph. 4. 3, 4, 5, 6, 1 Tim. 4. 10. Eph. 5. 23, 25, 29. Iudo ver. 9. 1 Cor. 10. 17. They are as distinct species and Churches, different in nature, in regard of pastoral preaching, * and paraking of the same seals, as the Brethren teach, (if any Page  361 difference of this kinde be) as they are different in nature in re∣gard of censures; and so as it is unlawful, by their way, to one of this congregation to submit to the forreign and extrinsecal Jurisdiction of other Churches, (as they call it) so its as unlaw∣ful to submit to pastoral preaching, and the seals tendred by the forreign authority of other Churches, because if the Head Christ, and power juridical be peculiar to one congregation in∣dependently, so must pastoral preaching and the seals be to the same Church; and a member must be as much restricted to their own officers onely for acts of office, since they are set over them by the holy Ghost, as our Brethren say, from Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5 2. Philip. 2. 25. as they are to hear, Matth. 18. that Church onely in acts of Jurisdiction. The Brethren are obliged to shew a difference, or to yield to the Argument.

Mr. H. A particular congregation is species specialissima, which*hath in it the nature of the Churches in general, and of the species or kindes of Churches, are complete without the Classs.

Ans. Let the congregation be complete, as species specialis∣sima* in its kinde, yet in extension of power its not complete; for we hold, that Classis, Synods, Congregations, differ in na∣ture, and that every one of them, yea the whole integral Ca∣tholick visible Church are all species specialissima; and Mr. R. grants they differ onely in more or less extension of power: and therefore Jurisdiction is firstly in them all, as the heat is firstly in the whole body of the fire, not firstly in this or that quarter or portion of the Element.

Page  362


The Arguments of Mr. R. for the first Adequate and Ca∣tholick subject of the Keyes are vindicated from the un∣satisfying replies of Mr. H.

MR. H. The Apostles (saith Mr. R.) stand in the room of the whole Catholick ministerial guides, when they revealed the Keyes.

Ans. The Apostles in that commission were extraordinary per∣sons sent to all the world to lay the foundation of the Gospel, by an Apostolick power; and in this sense they have no successors, nor stand in the room of any.

Ans. If the Apostles represent none in this sense, Mat. 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Iohn 20. 21. Go and teach, &c. whose sins ye re∣mit, &c. Then none succeed the Apostles to teach, baptize, re∣mit, and retain sins; Pastors then must do these without a com∣mission from Christ, or these ordinances must cease.

2. Mat. 28. Iohn 20. he sends the Apostles, and sayes, behold I am with you to the end of the world, in preaching and baptizing. * But the▪ Apostles do not live to preach and baptize to the end of the world; Ergo, that ministerial presence of Christ must be promised to some represented by the Apostles. So the English Divines, Calvin, Beza, Diodati, as Apostles gifted with power of working miracles, &c. they represented none, nor had they any successors. So Mat. 28. the Pastors have the power of the Keyes and of office given them, page 210.

Page  363 Mr. H. To that Church (saith Mr. R) hath Christ given, as*to the first subject, the ordinances and ministry, which he prini∣pally intended to perfect, to gather, and to bring to the unity of faith. But he principally intended to perfect, to gather, to bring to the uni∣ty of faith, by these ordinances and ministry, the whole Catholick visible Church, and secondarily this or that congregation.

Ans. Mr. R. lib. 2. p. 248. professedly disputes for a Church invi∣sible, to be the first subject of all ordinances, Christian priviledges and officers.

Ans. Mr. H. halfs my words, how Mr. R. makes the invisi∣ble Church such a first subject is abundantly declared.

2. These are not to me contrary; for the Catholick visible Church, which the Lord intends and decrees to bring to glo∣ry▪ * is both the invisible chosen, and really believing Church, the Church Mystical, and also the Church Catholick visible, fed by the visible and audible ministrie of Apostles, Pastors, &c. onely in that place I deny that body, Eph. 4. 12. to be visible in Mr H. his sense, as he makes his congregation visible, of which Ma∣gus and Iudas are members; and therefore Mr. H. in vain al∣ledges, that those whom Christ purposes to bring to the unity of saith &c. Eph. 4. 11. are such who certainly shall be saved, and are true beleevers, and it is undeniable, ordinances and ministry in their saving fruits, are given firstly to true believers, if we re∣gard the Lords intention, as I ever teach.

Mr. H. Mr. R. teacheth that the intendment of Salvation, and the giving of Ordinances and Ministry keep not equal pace each with other. So the Arminians (saith he) teach lib 2 page 248. but that God doth intend principally to bring the whole Catholick visible Church, that consists of Elect and Reprobate, to the unity of the faith, &c, is false.

Ans. Repeat my Argument as I frame it, and the flubble is blown away: To, and for that Church, as the subject and object and end, hath Christ given as to the first Church, the ordinances and ministry which he principally intends and decreet, to bring to the unity of faith, and to salvation:

But he intends and decrees to bring to the unity of saith, and to salvation, by these means, onely the whole Catholick visible Church, and that mystical Catholick body of it selfe invisible, Page  364 but made visible by a calling and inviting ministry of Apostles, Pastors, &c, Eph. 4. 11, 12. for the Lord giveth for the loved world, Iohn 3. 16. for the Catholick visible Church, sanctified by the word and baptism, Eph. 5. 25. for his sheep, Iohn 10. 11. for all his scattered children, Iohn 11. 52. for the whole world, 1 Iohn 2. 1, 2. Christ and Apostles, Pastors, Ministry, Seals in their substance principally, and all these for this or that, or these real beleevers secondarily. Mr. H. leaves out these words of mine, first to, and for the Saints, and so perverts my Argument, and frames another of his own for mine, which I own not.

9. If that proposition be utterly untrue, These whom Christ*intends to bring to the unity of faith, are such certainly, as shall be saved: Then must Mr. H. side with Arminians, who say that grace is common to all, and that God by his antecedent will intends to save all without exception, Elect and Reprobate, but the Reprobate break that intention and decree of God. So the Arminians.

3. Saith he, It is undeniable that Ordinances and Ministry are not given first to real believers.

Ans. It is undeniable that Ordinances and Ministry are given first to real beleevers, upon a purpose and intention to save them, Eph. 4. 11, 12. and that all priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ, promises, ministry, seals in their fruit, are given according to Gods gracious intention, to, and for onely the invisible Church, as I demonstrate, and not to and for Mr. H. his visible congregation, whereof Magus is a member, and according to my principles, the intendment of salvation from God, and the giving of ordinances and ministry, first, according * to that intendment: secondly, in their saving fruit, as Mr. R. demonstrates, go with equal pace.

3. That God intends to bring the whole visible Church of real beleevers, to the unity of faith; for visible and invisible in my sense are not conrary, but the whole visible Church Ca∣tholick is both invisible, being known to God only, and visible also, being called by a visible and audible ministry, according Page  365 to the purpose of God. As Paul, Rom. 8. 28. being a body per∣fected and gathered by the ministry of Apostles, Pastors, Eph. 4. 11, 12.

And 4. It is undeniably false, which Mr. H. saith that the whole visible Church consists of good and bad, Elect and Repro∣bate; for this Catholick visible Church and body, Eph. 4. 22. Eph. 4. 11, 12. Colos. 1. 18. consists only of elect ones and real beleevers: but Mr. R. will not undertake. So much for Mr. H. his Catholick congregation, of which Magus and Iudas are visible Citizens: and such a Church is not the first and proper, * and principal subject of ordinances, promises, seals, ministry in their saving fruits, except Mr. H. will side with Arminians and Socinians in this point; who teach that God intends grace and salvation to all, but many are not saved, and so the intention of God fails.

Mr. H. But what is all this to the present controversie, that to the guides of the Catholick Church Christ hath committed the keys, as to the first subject: we argue thus.

To that Church which Christ principally intends to bring to the unity of the faith, Christ hath given the power of the Keyes, as to the first subject. But Christ doth not principally intend to bring to the unity of faith, &c. and to gather the ministry of the Catholick Church; therefore to the ministry of the Catholick Church hath he not given the Keys, as to the first subject.

Ans. This is not to the controversie, concerning the first * subject of the Keyes, nor did I bring it in upon that account, but the question is concerning the constitution of a visible Church, in which I deny that the visible congregation, o our brethrens visible Church, of which Iudas and Magus are as es∣sentiall members, and their Church acts as valid, as Peter and Iohn the visibly and really beleeving Apostles are, or their Church acts are. I deny (I say) such a congregation to be the first subject of the stiles, properties, priviledges of special note, of promises, seals, officers in their saving fruits in the Lords in∣tention, and have demonstrated that the Catholick invisible Church is only the first, principal and proper subject of these, and that our brethren mistake the nature of the visible Church, I mean in all the dispute the integral Catholick visible Page  366 Church militant: otherwise Divines take the Catholick Church, for these that have been, and now are glorified, and shall be, and are not yet born, and that now are; but none of the two for∣mer are capable subjects of the Keyes.

2. The proposition is not mine, nor the argument: the Keys are given (say I) to the guides of the Catholick visible Church, as to the formal subjectum, first and proper, and are exercised by them, by the consent of the people, men, or wo∣men; nor should any new act of Doctrine be passed, or weigh∣tier points of discipline in Assemblies, until the people hear of them, the keyes are given to, and for the whole Catholick Church of beleevers, as the object and end, for the gathering them in to the unity of faith, Eph. 4. 11, 12. and as this visible Church falleth under the intention and decree of God to be saved, they are one and the same persons with the invisible Church, as the body of Christ, Eph. 4. & 12. is taken for both the invisible body.

It is 2. taken more largely, as the Catholick visible body comprehends all that hear, and profess subjection to the Gospel, elect and reprobate, and the Lord gives a ministry, seals, and visible membership to all, and every one of this body; to Esan, to Iacob, to Iudas the traitor, as to Peter a beleever, not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith, and to the acknowledgement of the Son of God, but for other unlike ends, finibus disparibus, to save some, to make others inexcusa∣ble.

Mr. H. If all ministerial power (saith Mr. R.) be given to a congregation (as our brethren say) under the name of a flock of re∣deemed*ones, as the body of Christ, Acts 20. 28. Colos. 1. 18. Then it belongs to the Catholick Church, for these titles agree first to the Catholick visible Church, Colossians 1. 18. Ephesians 1. 25, 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19, 20. and so they come to our hand.

Ans. The Catholick Church admits of a threefold apprehen∣sion.

1. As it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers.

2. As it represents the whole, ut totum representative, an Oecumenick Council.

Page  367 3. Ut totum integrale, as it is the whole Catholick Church spread all the world over, if Mr. R. mean the first, we agree, but the guides cannot be the first subject, for the Catholick Church, and the guides are different. The second part Mr. R. grants, that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock, &c. Hence his cause must needs suffer ship∣wrack, that the Keys are given to the ministry of the Catholick Church.

Ans. That the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in Scripture, or sound Dvines, is a meer ap∣prehension. I desire the Reader to consider the Catholick Church.

A 1. It implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers; * give a warrant from Scripture, sound Reason, or Divines for that. The Catholick Church is the whole body militant on earth, excluding none; but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all Churches on earth, except fourty or fifty persons.

2. The Catholick body organical of man, includes all the bo∣dy and organs of it, head, eyes, mouth, tongue, feet, &c. Now what sense is here? the Catholick organical body of man ad∣mits of a threefold apprehension.

1. It implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand, and the hand is predicated of this or that hand: and so is the Catholick body of the whole Catholick organick body of man. Or to come to a politick body, the Catholick body of England admits of a threefold apprehension.

1. It implies the congregation of all the City of York cove∣nanted together, and the City of York is the Catholick body of England, which is predicated and affirmed of this or that City of York. No man speaks so but onely Mr. Hooker that I know. Since the world was, no man can say a single con∣gregation, take it either in the common nature of a congrega∣tion of a 1000. or for this or that congregation, that a con∣gregation is the Catholick Church, no more then the hand is the Catholick organical body of man.

2. Mr. R. grants (saith he) that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a Congregation under the name of a flock, &c.

Page  368Answ. Reade my words, if I deny not that, and speak onely according to the grant and confession of our Bre∣thren.

2. Onely hypothetically, if all power Ministerial be given to a congregation (by our Brethrens confession) under the name of a flock of Redeemed ones, &c. then it belongs firstly to the Catholick Church, i. e. to the congregation, I never dreamed that a congregation was the Catholick Church, and I should be crazed in judgement if so I had spoken. And how * the Keys are given, or belong to the Catholick integral body as the object and final cause, to the Guides of the Catholick Church as the first formal subject, I often declare: and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here, let the Reader judge. I difference between the Ministers and the Catholick Church by this means: but that Mr. H. hath said not one word to my Ar∣ment. If power, priviledges spiritual be given to the congre∣gation as the redeemed flock and body of Christ; then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of The Redeemed of Christ, The Body of Christ agree first; but to be the redeemed of Christ, to be the body of Christ, to be his redeemed ones, agree first not to the Church of Ephesus, nor to any particular Church National, Provincial, Presbyterial, or Congregational, but to the whole Catholick Body, Ioh. 3. 16. & 10. 11. & 11. 52. 1 Ioh. 2. & 2. and when Christ is called the Head of the Body, Eph. 1. 22. Coloss. 1. 18. I shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a Divine. I cannot expound the places of a single congregation, 〈◊〉Eph. 1. 2. Col. 1. 18. the holy Ghost speaks of that Body, which is the fulness of him, who filleth all in all, Eph. 1. and of the Body of which Christ i Head, as the first begotten of the dead, and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross, if it be said, the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the Keys, for it contains all the Catholick Church.

Ans. It contains no women, aged children, servants, nor so∣journers, nor dismembred visible Saints, and therefore the con∣gregation Independent, in any sense is a narrow and imperti∣nent subject of the Key; and this is shipwrack really to the Page  369cause of Mr. H. as for that, that the Church, Cant. 6. is a con∣gregation,*in general, and that the Church is one there genere in kinde, its against the Text.

1. The congregation is not one, but hath threescore Queens, fourscore Concubines, Virgins without number, who are integral parts of that one Catholick Church, ver. 8. but essential parts of a congregation, in any sense they are not, but Churches in nature different: If these were species, then every one of the threescore must be that one onely Church, for genus praedicatur de specie. But it is sure that the innumerable Virgins, that is, believers, members of the Church, who with chaste love adhere to their onely Husband Christ, Cant. 1 3. that is, such as are chosen and called of God (saith Ainsworth on the place) and * faithful (whether whole Churches, as 2 Cor. 11. & 2. or parti∣cular persons) cannot be every one of them that one onely Church Catholick, for then every single Church should be the onely one Spouse of Christ, ver. 8, 9.

3. To that Church, I mean, for their salvation and good, hath Christ given the Keys, which is the complete Spouse of * Christ, and to which Christ bears the adequate and full relation of the love of Redemption, Eph. 5. 25. Ioh. 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 1, 2. Iob. 10 11. of love of justifying and washing, Rev. 1. 5. & 5. 4, &c. But neither the congregation this or that, nor the con∣gregation that exists ut genus in specie (a most illogically Mr. H. says) is the complete Spouse of Christ, nor doth Christ bear the full and adequate relation of the love of Redemption, of Justification, Sanctification, to the congregation in any sense. For.

1. This object of love takes not in the visible Saints sojour∣ners, dismembers, as said is, to whom Christ bears a love as to chaste virgins.

2. Nor is the love of God in choosing, effectual calling, ju∣stifying the ungodly; carrying them on to persevere to the end, terminated upon societies visible, as visible congregations, for so he should love all the Reprobates, Iudas, Magus, who are all visible Church-members: But its certain Christ loves none of these with that adequate love of Redemption, nor with Page  370 marriage-love, as he doth his beloved Spouse, Cant. 4. 7, 8, 9, 10. & 6 4, 9, 10.

3. Not is that love of Redemption terminated upon persons onely upon the bare relation of Church-members, for Christ takes them not into the Kings Chambers, Cant. 1. 4. to his banqueting house, Cant. 2. 4. nor draws he them after him by his powerful grace, Cant. 1. 4. Ioh. 6 44. nor blesses he, or im∣braces them, his left hand being under their head, and his right hand imbracing them, Cant. 2. 6. nor doth God teach them, Ioh. 6. 45. nor ingrave his Law in their heart, or give a heart of flesh, and a new heart, Ier. 31. 33. Ezek. 11. 19. & 36 26, 27. onely in the capacity of visible Church-members, for he be∣stows this love upon the Jaylor, upon Saul, upon the Eunuch, and upon many thousands, before they profess as members; yea, and upon thousands in the bosom of the Church of Rome, who out of weakness (though that be their sin) dare not pro∣fess the Gospel: Then it must be false, that the nature of the Church, and of those spiritual priviledges that belong to the congregation in general, or in this or this congregation; and that the relation of Christ as Husband, King. Head, Seeker of the lost, Good Shepherd, and of his Redeeming love, is broa∣der than a visible congregation, in any sense Mr. Hooker shall take it, and is no ways commensurate thereunto. And so not one of my Arguments but stand in force.

Page  371


Some further Considerations of the place Matth. 16.

ANy sense, according to Mr. Hooker, can hardly be put upon * that, Upon this Rock will I build my Church. For,

1. The question is, Whether they do any thing to inchurch themselves upon the Rock; for sure they are active in profes∣sing, 2. In suiting membership, 3. In covenanting: Then must Magus and Iudas, by acting the part of hypocrites, build them∣selves upon the Rock. Wilde Divinity again!

2. Christs act of building is either absolute or conditional: if absolute, then saith Christ, I inchurch you upon the Rock, whe∣ther ye believe or believe not; but Scripture never tells us of Pe∣ter,* or any built upon the Rock Christ, but by real sincere faith. If Peters act of faith be conditional, the condition must be ei∣ther sincere faith, or meer profession; if the former, we stand strong, Mr. H. is at a loss: for there is no promise of real uni∣on with the Rock, and perseverance, but to such as are living members in Christ, Ioh. 15. if the latter, then saith Christ, I I promise to you, Judas, Magus, real union with the Rock; or, Upon this faith, (saith Chrysostom; so Hilary, so Augustine) so you play the hypocrites egregiously, and seem to believe. Now this shall be non sense.

3. It cannot be said, I promise to build all in a Church-way, so they believe sincerely. For,

1. The ports of Hell and Satan should not prevail against persons to strip them of Church-membership, contrary to ex∣perience.

2. The promise is made to persons that confess, as Peter; but many real believers and visible professors have been put to death, and are never made Church-members this way; and Page  372 many real believers in the Church of Rome never profess, and many Church-members, and Churches of visible Saints are dis∣solved through persecution.

Again, there is a name and room promised in the House of God, Isa. 56. but not upon condition of hypocritical, but real believing.

Obj. Iudas was not made an Apostle upon condition of faith.

Ans. True: a man may be made an officer, and his acts va∣lid, and yet the man no sound believer.

Q. Should a man be admitted a Church-officer who is not judged a real convert?

Ans. The Scripture is sparing in submitting conversion or regeneration to the authoritative determination of men, yet the equivalent of this is said.

1. If Timothy must commit the Word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to*faithful men, who are able to teach others, as 2 Tim. 2. 2. And if

2. The Elders and Pastors which Titus is to admit, must be to his discerning, beside negatives, not self-willed, not soon angry, &c. also lovers of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate, holding fast the faithful word, &c. Tit. 1. 5. compared with v. 7, 8, 9, 10. Then must the real holiness of officers be known to Timothy and to Titus.

3. If the Apostle will have Timothy to try Bishops and Deacons also, and that experiencedly, that they be vigilant, sober, patient, grave, no novices, humble, holy, &c. the way that mettals are tried in the fite, 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2, 3, &c. so the word is, Luke 14. 19. Iam. 1. 12. 2 Cor. 13. 5. and will have him lay hands suddenly on no man, but deliberately, 1 Tim. 5. 21, 22. Then surely the Apostle supposes that they may be known to be such.

4. If the Apostles do charge the multitude, who had no ju∣dicial authority to look out from among them, seven men of honest report, full of the holy Ghost, and of wisdome, Acts 6. 5. to be Deacons, then Luke supposes that that might be answered, We cannot know whether men have the holy Ghost or no. The se∣cond Book of Discipline of Scotland, cap. 3 pag. 81. The qua∣lities Page  373 in general requisite in all them who should bear charge in the Kirk, consist in soundness of Religion, and godliness of life, according as they are sufficiently for forth in the Word of God. Now its not to be supposed, that in a Book of Church-policy, our Reformers speak of godliness that is invisible, and known to God onely; and so the Acts of the Assembly of the Kirk * of Scotland. And the cause of the sudden declining of the best Churches, and why Nazianzen complained so much of the corruption of Synods, as Sozomen, Theodores, Socrates, Ruf∣finus, Histor. Magdeburg. tell us, was, Because the Churches take not that care, that Ministers be savoury and gracious; from the Steersmen all Apostasie and rottenness begin. O if the Lord would arise and purge his House in Scotland! As for Church-members, they ought to be holy; and though all ba∣ptized be actu primo members, yet such as remain habitually ignorant after admonition, are to be cast out, and though they be not cast out certainly, as paralytick or rottened members cannot discharge the functions of life: So those that are scan∣dalous, ignorant, malignant, unfound in the faith, lose their right of Suffrages in election of Officers, and are to be debarred from the Seals. Nor can we defend our sinsul practise in this: it were our wisdome to repent of our taking in the Ma∣lignant party, who shed the blood of the people of God, and obstructed the work of God, into places of Trust in the Church, State, and the Army, contrary to our Covenant, they continuing still Enemies.

Page  374


Of the Church-Representative, and its power.

MR. H. We have dispatched the first member of the con∣troversie,*That the power of the Keys doth not appertain to the Guides of the visible Church; take it as totum genericum, or universale.

Ans. The first member is so dispatched, as the power of the Keys is by Mr. H. dispatched and banished out of its due seat and subject, and lodged in the congregation of redeemed visible Saints, sometimes onely unofficed Brethren, sometimes the Church of visible Saints, confederate men and women.

2. No man of ours (let him be named, if Mr. H. or any for him can name him) ever said, that the Keys appertain to the guides of the visible Church, taken as totum genericum & universale. For the Guides of the visible Church is, to all our Divines, the Guides of the Catholick Universal Church, made up as an in∣teral Body of all Churches, National, Provincial, Presbyterial and Congregational all the earth over. And to make this inte∣gral Universal Body Genus, and the congregational Church Spe∣cies, and Genus praedicatur de specie, is, as if this were our Lo∣gick, The Church of Boston is the whole integral Church of all the earth, made up of National, Provincial, Presbyterial Chur∣ches. A Monster!

Mr. H. There be two things, wherein stand the qualifications of members that are Commissioners: 1. Gifts and fitness. 2. De∣legation, which is the formale, as that they are sent by the Chur∣ches. The Churches, if they follow the pattern, must send, beside Pastors, Teachers and Elders, learned and holy men, that may per∣sonate and represent the whole Church. This is made the hinge and casting difference betwixt us and Papists, whereby our men vindi∣cate Page  375 the liberty and power of the Brethren, for all have definitive voices, not the Pope and his Proctors onely.

Ans. How can Mr. H. speak of a pattern of Oecumenick * Councels, and claim kindred to our Divines against Papists? or Mr H. mocks such Councels. 2. Mr. H. cannot name the man of our Divines, except Separatists, who draw nigher to Soci∣nians and Arminians in these points, than to our Divines, who 1. Ever taught, that the male-Churches of a congregation, are the onely Churches who send Commissioners to an Occu∣menick Councel? which Mr. H. saith hath neither warrant in Scripture nor in Antiquity for 300 years after Christ. 2. The controversie between Papists and our men, was, Whether onely Bishops soli Praelati, say Whittaker, Willet, Professors of Leyden, Calvin, Bucanus, Tilenus, Windelin, have a decisive voice, and ought not also Pastors, Doctors, Elders learned and holy, to have a decisive voice in Synods? And whether the people should be excluded from debating, reasoning, consenting; for Papists debar Laicks as profane, and say, If such Beasts touch the Mountain, and meddle with holy things, they are to be thrust through with a dart. But Mr. H. his hinge of a question is, Whe∣ther onely unofficed Brethren, members of the male congrega∣tion, are the onely members of an Oecumenick Councel, or with them officers, but as sent by those male-societies, otherwise they want the essential form of members, according to our Di∣vines judgement? He is a great stranger in the Writings of our Divines, who so guesseth at a new question, though I judge Mr. H. hath read them diligently. See what the Jesuits of Rhemes, Bellarmine, Cornel. à Lap. Lorinus and others, if ever they dream of such a hinge of a controversie.

Page  376 M. H. The representative body is but a part of the Catholick Church, not the whole of it, and represents the whole—what the commissioners do by their delegation, it is all one, as if the body did it; the Keys cannot then be firstly in it.

Ans. It is a mistake wide enough, there is a twofold repre∣senting.

1. The Apostles in receiving the Keys, Matth. 16. Iohn 20, Matth. 28. represented all officers, even those not born, but they had no commission from unborn men. And so August. Serm. 13. de verbis domini. Chrysost. homil. 55. in Matth. 16. Hieronym. l. 1. contra. Iovian. and our Divines, Calvin, Pareus, Luther, Melancthon, Willet, &c. say, that the Keyes in Peter, who represented all the Apostles and faithful Pastors, were gi∣ven to all Ministers. Now if Mr. R. say that the Keyes were given first to this representative body Apostolick, let Mr. H. or any man beat him with strong arguments, and that is a good revenge.

3. These whom the Churches, (not the male-congregations, as Mr. H. saith) send as Commissioners to a Synod, are not to be loo∣ked * upon.

As 1. If the Churches were resolved aforehand how far they will follow them; for why then (saith Mr. Cotton) do they send to the Synod for light and counsel?

2. Neither as if they were sent to carry the faith and consci∣ences to the Synod, and the people in and through them did teach Synodicè, and the people must follow their determinati∣on, be it right or wrong. And so it is a wide mistake, to say what Delegates do or say, it is all one, or the like reason (saith Mr. H.) as if the Represented did, or said it. For if the Synod say the Gospel is not the word of God, the Church did not say either personally (for that is impossible) or legally the same: on∣ly the Churches send them to pray & enquire the mind of God Page  377 from his word, and engage they shall follow them, in as far as they follow Christ.

Nor is delegation the formalis ratio of determining synodi∣cally, it is only a necessary condition of determining, and of synodical judging.

Obj. But Mr. R. saith Amen to this distinction of Mr. Par∣ker.

Ans. True; these two, fitness and gifts, together with a commission, make a man a commissioner and messenger of the Church; but delegation makes him not a formal Definer and a Judge: nor do the Churches send them as officers, but as such eminently able and faithful men, who have hazarded their lives for the cause, as Act. 15. 25. and they determine as such e∣minently holy and able officers; their delegation is a thing of meer order, because all cannot be sent, nor doth it create them of new officers, nor yet such eminent officers, for they were both these before, only their delegation puts them in an actual or∣derly capacity to determine formally, Ut approximatio ligni aridi ad ignem non est formalis ratio comburendi.

Mr. H. Mr. R. l. 1. p. 305. to 309. runs all upon this, the pow∣er*of the keyer, by order of nature, is only in the Catholick repre∣sentative body: but the power of the Keyes was before there was any Representative some 300. years, when there was no Oecume∣nick Councel, and since the Churches give their power and officers to the Assembly, they had that power before the Assembly.*

Ans. Read from c. 10. sect. 10. & p. 289. to p. 346, 347. where I speak of the Catholick Church. I say, only that such a synodical power of the Keyes, as is dogmatick, especially for light and peace, as Mr. Cotton speaketh, is first by order of na∣ture in the Oecumenick Councel: the doubting and contending Churches cannot bind; Ecclesia dubitans non docet, Ecclesia errans non judicat, Ecclesia contendens non ligan, on solvit, for the doubting, the erring, the contending of Churches are no ordi∣nances of God, and erring and contending Churches cannot heal themselves; and therefore the healing power is seated by Christs appointment in the synodical Church, which is more diffused and stronger, as is clear, when the Churches of Antioch and Iudea are broken, renand sick, the wisdom of God, Act 15. Page  378 hath appointed that these should meet in a Synod of the select and choicest parts, Apostles and godly Elders; Ergo, the heal∣ing power of the Keys must be first in them.

2. Mr. R. runs not, but assrts lently, that power of the keys in binding and loosing, and in opening and shutting heaven in the latitude of preaching, and censures, Mat. 16. was not be∣fore Christ gave it to the Apostles, the then Representative of all the faithful guides to be in the Church christian to the worlds end, and this grant was made to Peter and the Apostles, not as to such, private men, Simon, such ishers, but by evidence of Scri∣pture truth.

2. The testimony of all sound Antiquity.

3. The judgement of Protestant Divines.

4. Canons of Councells.

5. The Doctrine of sounder ancient School-men and Popish Doctors, Occam, Alenis, Almain, Gerson, Bonventure, &c. not only not 300. years after, but before Christs death, and confir∣med before his Ascension to heaven. That ever Mr. R. said that the power of the Keys in their latitude of binding and loo∣sing was in an Oecumenick Councel, a Representative of for∣mally sending Churches, and a body of formally sent Commis∣sioners, is utterly denied, and no where to be seen in any book that ever he wrote.

Such as cite him at random would remember (3) that I teach that the power of the Keys, 1. In its latitude is first given to the Apostles, Mat. 28. 19, 20. Mat. 16. 18, 19. Iohn 20. 21, 22. Mark 16. 15. Act. 18. as the only then Catholick representa∣tive body, sustaining the person of all officers to the end of the world, and so the first formal subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude, is not either the congregation or congregational Eldership, nor the Presbytery, or Synod, all these are but parts, and to make a quarter, or a part of the body of the Sun, the first and adequate subject of light, and a quarter, or a part of the body of the Element of water the first and adequate subject of the cold and moistness, since these qualities are kindly in the rest of the quarters and parts of the body of the Sun, and the body of the Element, were bad Philosophy. So the adequate first complete formal subject of this power must be the integral Page  379 Catholick body of the guides, as existing in their several Chur∣ches; for this power is as kindly and natively in the guides of this Church, as in the guides of that Church, and equally in all.

2. The power of the Keys as this power synodicall is consi∣dered either in the breadth of synodical power, and so to con∣demn * Catholick errors and heresies is in an Oecumenick Coun∣cel, and where the local distance of visible Churches is greater and wider, the external visible communion in being edified or scandalized is less, and less use there is of censures. A Gene∣ral Councel being onely necessary for the optimum esse, the most Catholick union and peace of the Catholick Church: & that such a Councel is an ordinance of God Mr. Cot. proves from Act. 15.

3. As the power is narrower, it becomes narrower then Oecumenical, and descends to National, to Provincial, to Pres∣byterial, to Congregational; and all these are parts only.

4. Though the Churches send Officers to the Synod, and have some power of the Keyes in their kind before the Synods have being; yet Mr. H. can hence conclude nothing of his pur∣pose against me; for it follows not, Ergo, the male-congrega∣tions have the complete power of the Keys in its latitude, before the Synods have being; nor does it follow, that congre∣gational * Churches, or Presbyterial have that complete pow∣er, before Synods have being, nor do they confer (if we speak ac∣curately) a synodical power of the Keys, they only send messen∣gers who are materials of the Synod; but the synodical power is in its parts scattered in the Churches of the Province and Nati∣on, as Immes of Gold in divers parts of the Earth; and the synodical power comes from the institution of Christ, who promises the holy Ghost, and fulfils his promise, as Mat. 28. 20. compared with Act. 15. 28. Nor can the scattered Churches bring forth of themselves any synodical power of the Keyes when they are met in a Synod, the promise made to such as are gathered together in his name, does the business; and therefore that is soon blown away. It is unpossible that a proper quality can be either in nature, or time, before its subject th gives it beng: but the power of the Keyes was 300. years before there was any General Councel in the world. For this proves only that some certain pow∣er, to wit, formally synodical, cannot be, until the Synod be.

Page  380 2. Grave Divines judge the Synod, Act. 15. to be a Gene∣ral Councel; but though it were not so, it differs not in nature from a General Councel, and so must partake of its natural qua∣lities, as the natural properties of a man are in a same man. Now beside that, Christ gave the complete power of the Keys to the Apostles, be sent them as his Father sent him, as a Pro∣phet to remit and retain sins, Joh. 20. to be a teaching and bap∣tizing ministry, Mat. 28 20. which he never gave to the unof∣ficed * male-Church. Christ also appointed an Assembly with them in Galilee, and keeped it, Mat. 26. 32. Mat. 28. 16.

Mr. H. To define in Councels is no proper work in officers.

5. For so saih D. Ames, no Pastor of the primitive Church, and few of the after ages should have fulfilled their Pastoral charge.

2. That which is common o the Brethren is not proper to Pastors.

3. Whitak. It's open popery to take it from Breth n.

Ans. Ames is miscited, he states the question, whether on∣ly Bishops have decisive votes. Though it were proper to Bi∣shops and Pastors, yet it may be (saith Ames) communicated*to other Ministers of God.

2. It is not a Pastoral, but an Officiall act that we contend for.

3. It is a poor question, for if learned godly men be cho∣sen, if they be not Doctors and ruling Elders, they should be such.

4. The Martyr hath a learned discourse, 1 King. 12. De Schismte, and hath nothing of the question: but from Act. 15. he condemns Papists, who exclude Laicks from Synods, for Constantine subscribed the sixth Synod, Basilius the eighth Sy∣nod; nor is it Popery, except Calvin maintain Popery, for he gives to the people consenting, to the Apostles and Elders judg∣ing: and so doth Gualther, nor doth Whitaker call it popery to seclude Laickes from defining, but rom speaking, discerning, consenting. I wonder that Mr. H. is so confident in this mat∣ter.

Page  381 Mr. H. Arg. 3. If the power of the Keyes belong firstly to the Oecumenick Councel, then it belongs to all others by vertue of that, risibility agres first to man to Richard, John, not as these indivi∣dual men, but as thy have the nature of man: hence there can no power of the keys (as ordnation, excommunication, &c) be put forth but by vertue of an Oecumenick Councel giving in their influence first to that work; which is contrary to the evidence of Scripture, and the experience of all ages. The proposition is proved by the rule of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, if none have this power, but only this subject, then this power can go no farther then this, for this 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, require.

Ans.〈◊〉. Mr. H. wrongs the Reader, who sets not down my answer to this argument: for p. 299. I say, the power of the keys is not given to the Catholick Presbytery, as to the first subject, to be a mean of edification in an ordinary way but only in an extraordi∣nary and occasional way in these things, whch concern the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole Catholick Church. By Extra∣ordinary,* I mean not that which is against, or above a particular law of God, but that which rarely falls out. Hence I never make an Oecumenical Councel the first subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude, as man is the first only subject of risibili∣ty, the element of water of cold and heat, for so as only man is risible, and Peter visible for mans nature, so only an Oecume nick Councel should firstly and principally excommunicate and ordain Ministers: but I say the just contrary of this, to wit, that an Oecumenick Councel is onely the first and principal subject of that synodical power, or of that certain power, or special power that belongs to an Oecumenick Synod formally conve∣ned as such, and so to this or that Oecumenical Councel, because of the common nature of an Oecumenical Councel.

Page  382 Yea, This special power of the Keyes is but a part, or a cer∣tain kind and species of the power of the Keyes in some rare and extraordinary things that belong to the Catholick Church. But we are now disputing of the first seat and subject of the power of the Keyes in general, in the latitude of binding and loosing, opening and shutting the gates of heaven by preaching and censures. And I deny expresly that an Oecumenick Coun∣cel is the first subject of the power of the Keyes in this general. And so Mr. H. fights with a shadow. Non concludit negatum. So my Simile is never touched by Mr. H. as pag. 305. The light is first in the whole body of the Sun, as the first and prime subject of light; yet supposing now the received opinion of Astronomers, that the Sun doth exceed the quantity of the Earth 167, it doth not follow, that this or that part of the Sun hath no light in it in∣trinsecal, but that which is derived from the whole body of the Sun, for then this or that part of the Sun should have light derived to it (extrinsecally) from some other.

Now the power of the Keys is in the whole Catholick Body of Apostles, Pastors, Doctors, Elders, all the world over, as they act respectively in Congregations, Presbyteries and Synods of all sorts, so that one part of the Catholick integral body of the Catholick Church, for example, hath not that power of the Keys due to them, derived from the Presbytery to the con∣gregational Eldership, or from the Synod derived to the Pres∣bytery, and so forth, by either ascending or descending: But when Christ gave the whole power of the Keys to the body of the Apostles, Mat. 28. 19. & 16. 19. Ioh. 20. 21, 22, 23 Mar. 16. 15. they were the Body Representative (I never call them an Oecumenick Councel) and did immediately represent any Apostles to be chosen, Matthias, Paul, Evangelists, Pastors, Doctors, Elders, that were to be, even to the second coming of Christ, and he promiseth his Ministerial Spiritual presence to them all immediately, Mat. 28. 20 Go teach and baptize—lo, I am with you always, (administring Word, Seals, Censures, according to the Rule) even to the end of the world. Now the Apostles were not to live preaching and baptizing to the end of the world, therefore the promise must be made to them all, though not yet born. Now we reade not of deriving of any Page  383 power to Synods, Presbyteries, Congregations, by mediation of Churches, for Christ instituted Synods, Mat. 28. 16. Act. 1. 12, 13, 14, &c. & 6. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 13. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. & 15. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, &c. and that immediately he instituted Presbyterial Churches, Act. 2. & 4. 9. & 5. 21, 42. and Churches congre∣gational to meet in one place, 1 Cor. 11. 17. And as one part of the Element of water (suppose we make 24 parts of all) hath not natural moistness and cold from the other 20 parts, but hath it as intrinsecally, without the intervening influence of the other twenty three parts, as they have: So the Presbyte∣rial and Congregational Eldership have as primarily, intrinse∣cally, immediately in their sphere and orb the Keys due to them, according to the proportion of the associated body, as the whole integral-Catholick Presbytery and Church hath, whe∣ther in an Oecumenick Councel, or out of it.

It is then a wide mistake in Mr. H. to tell us, If an Oecumeni∣cal Councel be the first subject of the Keys, (as it is not) that there can be no act of power in ordaining of Ministers, in excommunica∣ting of delinquents, but by vertue of an Oecumenical Councel gi∣ving their influence first to that work. For if the meaning be (as it must be) that a General Councel must prove an act, and put forth some actual Mandate, commanding such a man to be or∣dained an officer, such a delinquent to be excommunicate, else the Churches cannot proceed: for to take Mr H. his own com∣parison, Richard or Ioshua cannot be a man, or apt to laugh, except the abstract nature of man give in his influence to the work. And since Mr. H. and his Brethren make the male-con∣gregation * abstracted from this or that congregation, the first formal subject of the whole power of the Keys, what influence (I ask) doth the so abstract congregation give to the work of Ordination and Excommunication in a particular congregation? Abstracted natures do not send abroad mandates to all the con∣gregations all the world over, before they can ordain, censure, or excommunicate. If it be said, this agrees to the nature of a congregation in general to ordain and excommunicate, but there needs no other actual influence of a command to come from the congregation in general to this individual congregation for their using of the Keys. True, there needs not, by the like, Page  384 that any mandate pass from the Oecumenick Councel in gene∣ral, to this or that individual Oecumenick Councel in the exer∣cise of its Synodical acts.

But (saith Mr. H.) if the Oecumenick Councel be the first formal subject of the power of the Keys, then inferiour Courts cannot ordain nor excommunicate without a warrant, and actual command from them.

Ans. This is feeble: for beside that the Oecumenick Coun∣cel * is not at all any such formal first subject, as is said, its a naugh∣ty consequence; for though power of life and death be in King and Parliament as in the first subject, it follows not that an in∣feriour Judge or free City cannot put to death notorious Trai∣tors and Murtherers all England over, without the influence of some actual Mandate from King and Parliament to the putting to death of every Traitor. So when Christ gave power of Word, Seals and Censures to the Apostles, as representing all officers, (say we) or as representing all believers (saith Mr. H.) it fol∣lows, that officers and the male-Church cannot administer Word, Seals, Censures, without the influence of a new actual command from the Apostles, who did represent all such to whom Jesus Christ gave the Keyes, by this arguing of Mr. H.

Nor does Mr. H. his first deduction follow, that if a General Councel be such a subject (as it is not) that therefore the exist∣ing*of such a Councel is as necessary as the well-being of the Church. For a Parliamentary power is necessary for England, yet sup∣pose by war, and other invincible impediments, a Parliament could not meet for divers years, yet neither power nor exercise of Justice do cease. So here Synodical power may be, and by the care of the Lord of his House, is continued in lesser As∣semblies, though such Councels exist not. But 2. the Ante∣cedent being true, the Consequence is null.

Nor is the power of the Keyes in its latitude, as is said, ei∣ther firstly or onely, and so not perfectly in this Councel, but firstly and intrinsecally in the whole integral Presbytery all the earth over.

Nor is it necessary that this General Councel, though it were the first subject of the Keys, always attain all its end in the use of Page  385 the Keyes. For the male-Church void of Pastors cannot attain all its end, to wit, the pastoral preaching, the dogmatick and of∣ficial sentencing of delinquents, the right tendring of the seals, yet is the male-Church the onely formal subject of this power to Mr. H.

Mr. R. said well, that a General Councel can hardly excommu∣nicate*a whole National Church: for it could hardly be known to them, but many are not obstinate in the National Heresie and Scandal, who through weakness and fear of persecution dare not confess. And its enough that a National Church may be declared to be no Church: as Moses removed the Tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, Exod. 33. 7. and Paul turned away from the blaspheming Jews Acts. 13. 45, 46. and yet nei∣ther the one nor the other is the excommunicating of a National Church, for the word of the Covenant remained in the Nation of the Jews, after Paul and Barnabas turned from them, and preached to the Gentiles, Iam. 1. 1. Heb. 1. 1. & 3. 6. & 10. 25. 1 Pet. 1 1. 1 Ioh. 1. 1. & 2. 1, 2. Nor is our Brethrens new cen∣sure * of non communion of Churches so warrantable. For,

1. The removing of the Candlestick seems to be a judgment inflicted onely by Jesus Christ; and they who declare such a society to be no Church, must have the warrant of Christ going before, and really removing the Gospel. For if the Word, the contract of marriage, and seals, remain there in their sub∣stance, they can only (the profession thereof not ceasing) declare them an impure and corrupt Church, but not to be no Church.

2. The doctrine or practise of a Church may be erroneous, hurt∣ful*and destructive to holiness, as that of Pergamus and Thyatira, and they defend it; and yet remaining sound in other points, they cease not to be a people in covenant with God, and they cannot be declared no Church, and the Ministerial acts of ba∣ptizing invalid, and to be reiterate, as is clear in the Church of the Jews, though Idolatrous, and in the Scribes and Phari∣sees, corrupt the same way in practise and doctrine, whom Christ commandeth to hear, Mat. 23. 1, 2. far more for a sinful act of Jurisdiction, leave they not off to be a Church.

3. How can it be clear to a sister-Church, that there are not there, the Church being above a thousand, or many Churches, Page  386 (for many Churches may be unchurched as well as one) a few names that out of weakness onely are silent at the sinful do∣ctrine and practise of the Church.

4. Its hard to say the Church of Rome, in which there are the matrimonial Tables, the Old and New Testament, valid Baptism, and Salvation to a covenanted people by the fundamentals preached, is no Church, though communion with such a Whore be unlawful.

Mr. H. If the Churches refuse the sentence of Excommunica∣tion*inflicted by the Court Ocumenical, it can never prevail to at∣tain its end.

Ans. Ergo, its unlawful. It follows not, the Churches, the * person excommunicate refuse to abstain from the society of one excommunicate, and excommunication hardens and humbles not; Ergo, its unlawful: So the Gospel is the savour of death unto death, 2 Cor. 2. 16, a Rock of stumbling, 1 Pet. 2. 8. and prepared vengeance, 2 Cor. 10. 6. to some; Ergo, its not the Word of God. Many such consequences have been drawn, to make Mr. R. his way odious to the godly. But I desire to con∣tend for truth.

Mr. H. To the Ministery and Catholick Guides of that visi∣ble Church, hath Christ committed the Keys as the first subject, to the which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sacraments, Mi∣nistery primarily. This is Mr. R. his in terminis determinate conclusion beyond all gainsaying. But to the Oecumenick Councel, as the Representative of all Churches, God hath not primarily given his Ministery, Word, Sacraments, Ordinances; then an Oecume∣nick Representive Church hath not the Keys given to it as to the first subject. The Assumption onely needs proof. 1. There was no such Councel for 300 years after Christ. 2. Councels consist pri∣marily of Pastors and Elders; then must Ministers be sent to feed Ministers. 3. Word and Seals are not primarily attended in Councels, but scanning of controversies.

Ans. 1. I complain of unfaithful repeating of my words. The title is not of Oecumenick Councels, but chap. 10. sect. 10. pag. 289. Of the communion of the visible catholick Church. To the Proposition I answer; To the Ministery and Guides of that Ca∣tholick visible Church hath Christ committed the Keys, as to the Page  387 first subject, unto which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sa∣craments, Ministery primarily.

This neither is conclusion nor principle of mine, but a same * and curtailed proposition of Mr. H. My words are these, cap. 10. sect. 10. pag. 289.

To this Church catholick visible hath the Lord given a Mini∣stery, and all his Ordinances of Word and Sacraments principally and primarily, and to the Ministery and Guides of this Catholick Church visible hath the Lord committed the Keyes as to the first subject, and for the visible Church catholick, including also the in∣visible Church as for the object and end, hath he given his Ordi∣nances and the power of his Keys; and the Ministery and Ordi∣nances are not given to this or this congregation which meeteth or∣dinarily in one place. So the Proposition which I own from these words, must be this.

To the Church catholick visible as to the first subject primarily, and as for the lst end and object, hath the Lod given all his Ordi∣nances, Word, Sacraments, Ministery. This is mine in terminis. And this also: To the Guides of this Catholick Church, not of a single congregation, hath the Lord committed the Keys as to the first formal subject, but for the Church catholick visible and in∣visible, as for the end and object, that they may be saved.

But Mr. H, his proposition is not mine, he devised it himself, and its false, gainsaid by Mr. R. to wit, To the Guides of that catholick visible Church hath the Lord committed the Keys as to the first subject, unto which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sacraments, Ministery primarily. For,

1. I know no Guides of any Church on earth, to whom the Lord hath given the Seals primarily, for God hath given the Seals primarily to his chosen people, to the Guides secondarily, as they are visible Saints.

2. I know no Ministers of any Church to whom the Lord hath given the Ministery primarily: its a sensless saying.

3. I refer it to the Reader, if such a sensless proposition can be drawn from my words. The Catholick visible Church is neither the subject, nor first subject, but the object and end for which the Keys are given to the Ministers and whole Officers of the Catholick Church visible and invisible. Yea, I demonstrate Page  388 by many Arguments, that believers are not the subject of the Keys. I say indeed, not the visible Church whereof Magus and Iudas are members, is the prime subject, but the invisible Church is in the Lords intention such a subject of all Ordinan∣ces in their saving fruits: but then the first subject is all one with the object and end of God in Predestination.

2. The Assumption is granted, but Mr. H. his probations are naught.

1. There was no General Councels the first 300 years after Christ.

Ans. Mr. Simpson, and other grave Divines say, the Councel * at Ierusalem, Act. 15. is more worthy the name of an Occu∣menick Councel, than the Councels of Nice, of Constantinople, of Ephesus, of Chalcedon.

2. Such a Councel is not the first subject of the Keys, but onely of the Synodical Keys in such a General Councel, of the Keys Catholick dispensed.

3. The Apostles, the Representative of all the Guides of the Church, may well stand for a formal Councel Occume∣nick.

4. The long want of General Councels, through providen∣tial * impediments, can no more prove them to be no Ordinances of God jur which ought to be, than if one should say, Cir∣cumcision, and the Passover, and Sacrifices, and an Ephod, are no Ordinances of God. For it is thought by the learned on Hos. 3 4. Israel was without a King, Sacrifice, Image, Teraphim, Ephod, from the sixth year of the Reign of Hezekiah, when Sal∣manasser carried away the ten Tribes, until Christ was crowned King, to wit, six hundred and seventy five years. See the En∣glish Divines, Diodati, Iunius, Pareus. Zanchins on the place: By this it shall follow, that Circumcision, the Sacrifices, Ephod then are no Ordinances of God, for if they were (say the Dissenting Brethren) institutions are suitable to providenoes. When ye go up to Ierusalem, no man shall desire your land. Then if Page  389 a General Councel were an Ordinance of Christ, the Lord should suit his providence to a peaceable meeting of the Chur∣ches in a General Councel. But so from the sixth year of the Reign of Hezekiah in Israel, Sacrifices, Priests, Ephods, the Kingly power shall be no Ordinances of God, for even till Christ these were not in Israel; and by this profession of the Gospel, and congregational Churches were not at all. And should not the Lord have framed the like providence, that pro∣fessors of Christ meet in day-light in congregational assemblies? For as the Lord made a special typical promise, when the males go up thrice a year to Ierusalem to worship, the Nations were not permitted of God to desire their land: So must the like promise of providence suiting with the profession of Christ be in the New Testament, the Heathen Emperours shall not desire your lives. Now the plain contrary providence is foretold by our Saviour, Mat. 10. 17, to 25. Luke 21. 12, to 18. Ioh. 16. 1, 2. and the Lord must, by this, fail against his Ordinance of professing Christ before men. When in the persecution of Flavius Do∣mitian,*an. 96. of Trajan, an. 108, so many Martyrs were killed, as Eusebius saith; and Plinius 11. the Deputy was smitten in conscience with their number and patience. So multitudes suf∣fered under Antonius Pius; and in the time of Dcius, an. 250. there was no congregation, no Eldership. Many suffered under Nero, many under Maximinus. So Euseb. l. 6. c. 28. under Valerian, an. 259. who killed Pastors and Professors; as Euse∣bius, l. 7. c. 10, 11, 12. especially godly Cyprian. Now sure the Lord had as sweet and comfortable a providence suiting with the glorifying of his Name, and advancing his Gospel by the death of so many Witnesses, as if he had suffered them to meet in congregations, to meet peaceably, none desiring to take a∣way their life or land, as in Israels day, for their meeting to serve God in congregations. And its an overturning of the Ordi∣nances of God in the New Testament, in which there is not given a land flowing with milk and honey, and a promise of a temporal typical providence, that they shall be free of persecu∣tion in following Church-duties, and publick Worship congre∣gational, which is not existent in all ages: Nor saith Mr. Ru∣thurfurd, that Ministers are given to Ministers primarily, but Page  390 as they are members of the Body visible, and chosen of God, Ephes. 4.


Whether the Congregation as the Congregation doth excom∣municate a delinquent? or is it the Catholick visible. Church which excommunicates?

MR. R. his meaning is, that the congregation excommu∣nicateth * not as a congregation, by a power which by or∣der of nature is first in it self, but by a power which by nature is first in the whole Eldership; but yet not by an act coming from the privity, knowledge and conscience of all the whole Catholick Body of Officers all the world over. And so I grant, that the Catholick visible Church doth not anteced ntly excom∣municate, leading witnesses, and summoning, and accusing, and sentencing the person before the congregation; as when Nor∣wich puts a Traitor to death, the State of England by the Law common to all England, in and by Norwich putteth the man to death: Nor doth Norwich as a single Corporation (though neither simply as a Representative) but acting as a part of the Body of England. And the whole State doth this antece∣dently:

1. Because the City doth this by the same power of Law common to all England: quae sunt communira sunt priora.

2. Norwich puts this Traitor to death, not as an enemy to that single Corporation onely, but as a common enemy to the whole Kingdom.

3. The City doth this by an innate power, as an integral part of England, for the peace and safety of the whole King∣dom: yet doth not the whole Kingdom knowingly exercise an act of deliberate judicial authority in this; for the man is put Page  391 to death without the privity and knowledge of the whole Kingdom.

I used the comparison (to cousen the inconsiderate Reader (saith Mr. H.) I hate cousening) The left hand cuts off the finger of the right hand lest it infect with a Gangrene the whole body, acted by the natural instinct, and innate desire of self. safety, which is in the whole man. But (saith Mr. H.) the chief officers are not at the mind and will, and the other Churches as the whole man: but the rest of the brethren are as the whole man, who have an in∣trinsical power for the safety of the whole congregation, to cut off an an infectious member.

Ans. Nor is the comparison to be strained; I shall onely desire it to be taken as Mr. H. saith. Its true, the left hand doth not cut off the contagious finger, but the whole man, deliberate will and reason consenting thereunto; and the finger is cut off, not by the power of the left hand onely, but the intrinsecal power of the body.

And it is so exactly in a particular congregation, the chief offi∣cers, as the mind and will, and the rest of the Brethren as the whole, have an intrinsecal power from Christ to remove an infe∣ctious member.

Ans. They have a power to remove him (saith Mr. R. in his * comparison) not from that congregation onely, but from the whole Catholick Body: As the left hand cuts off the conta∣gious finger, not from the right hand onely, but from the whole body. It wrongeth Christ to say, he hath given so selfie and narrow a power, to liberate onely a body of 10 or 20 Indepen∣dent members from the contagion of scandal, but not to free five thousand, and the associate bodies round about: Let them perish, Christ hath given no Organick or Church-care to the congregation toward them all (saith Mr. H.)

2. The comparison is not exact. When the fraternity excom∣municates all their officers, where is the mind and will then? for they excommunicate their own minde and will.

3. Mr. R. never meant the comparison should hold in this, That the Catholick Church, as mind and will, should put forth acts of deliberate reason—antecedently to cite, accuse, sentence every delinquent in an Oecumenick Councel, or some Catholick Page  392 Judicature, and to excommunicate all Delinquents, before ever the congregation cite them. With divers arguments he refutes an antecedent excommunication, as if I held any such thing. So Mr. H. loves to prove strongly what Mr. R. never denied.

But Mr. H. speaks nothing to my Argument, if the mn be cast out, and bound on earth, he must be bound only on that tract of earth where twenty Independents are.

But 1. Church binding in heaven, and the guiltiness of the scandal is alike in all places, and often more infectious to others, if it be a taking heresie, then to their own congregation.

2. Who shall perswade that our Saviours sense is so ham∣pered? Let him be to thee as an heathen, Mat. 18. 17. as thee only, who art a member of the congregation whereof he is a mem∣ber; yea, as touching Church binding, neither is he a known guiltless visible Saint to all Churches on earth. It is nothing but a naked evasion to say he is consequently cut off from right to ordinances in all other congregations, for because one species of corporations hath condemned a man (saith Mr. H. page 236.) it follows not, that therefore all have condemned him to imprisonment perpetual, or the like.

Ans. Yea, what one City doth in punishing a Malefactor by Law power, common to all England, that same all England* doth in law: for twenty Sons have by the same Law and Autho∣rity of the Fathers right of twenty Tables of twenty Families of the Father. One is for sedition against his Father cast out of one Family, whereof he is a fixed member; the other nine∣teen, though they know nothing of the fact, and doe never actually cite him, yet do legally, and by the Law, and the same very wil of the Father, that ruleth them all, cast him antecedently out, or concomitanter; or then another Law must appoint the other nineteen Families to cast him out. So the same right idem numero, that Peter hath to Christ and Ordinances in one Church, he hath it in all; and that same act of the Keyes administred according to the rule of the Word, in one Church removing that right, removes it from him all the World over.

3. Visible Saints by this shall not be the same spiritually po∣litick body, visible, being of divers congregations: contrary to Scripture, expounded by Mr. H. and Mr. Cotton, we being many Page  393 are one body visible, and visible of twenty congregations, par∣taking * of one bread and body of Christ. Now by this, as a fin∣ger cut off Paul, is not a finger cut off Iohn, for Iohn hath all his ten fingers entire, and Paul hath his nine fingers only: So also if Thomas disobedient he cast out of only his own congre∣gation, he is never cast out of Church-right to Christ, and or∣dinances in the rest of the congregations; for excommunicati∣on by consequence, is only a declaring by witnesses (as Mr. H. saith pag. 242.) that the man is cast out of his own congre∣gation. Now the declaring that Paul's finger is cut off, is not a cutting off of his finger, that is impossible. Far less is it possi∣ble, that the declaring that Paul's finger is cut off, can be either a declaring that Peters finger is cut off, or that that declaring is a cutting off of Paul's finger, or a cutting off of Peters fin∣ger. Therefore Peters being cast one of his own Church-right, and Church only, is no casting of him out of other Churches, or real removing of his Church-right to ordinances in other Churches. For that which was never really removed, and Peter once had, it must remain with Peter yet: now Peter was never a member of any congregation but of one; then mem∣bership to another congregation cannot be taken from him.

4. A member is cast out as really scandalous; his adultery obstinately continued in makes him be deprived of Christian fellowship with Brethren as Brethren: Ergo, he is deprived of the Christian fellowship of all Brethren. For 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 follow∣eth upon 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.

And 5. It is thus confirmed; his visible scandal is a Church-offence to one of a Sister-congregation, and is apt to bring a Church-contagion to these of another congregation, who are 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, one body with him at the Lords Table; and there∣fore are they now to look on him as an Heathen. But who put him in that state, if he be not really and formally cast out * of that body, when his own Church excommunicates him?

6. He that hears not the Church, heares not Christ, and he that despiseth any Pastor sent in the name of Christ, despiseth Christ, Mat. 10. 4. Luke 10. 16. Iohn 13. 20. Now if this stand good, one that despiseth his own Pastor only, and his own congregation only, though he despise all the godly Prophets, Page  394 Pastors, and soundest Churches on earth, despiseth not Christ nor his Father that sent him; nor is he first in foro Dei, bound in Heaven, and guilty before God, nor deserves he to be ex∣communicate, for he hath not failed against that, He that despiseth you despiseth me. For that is true only when any despiseth their own Pastor, or their own congregation. And if so, then when one is cast out, and judgeth an heathen for not hearing of his own Church, he is not heathen in Heaven, and in foro Dei, as touching his communion with other Pastors and other congregations.

7. Peter before he was excommunicated, had a real right to the Lords Table in all Churches on earth, and so a sort of mem∣bership and visible communion with all these Churches. Now if by the act of excommunication in his own Church, this right be not taken from him, then must it be taken from him by all the Churches: and so all the Churches must excommunicate when one excommunicates: and by the like, all must admit one into membership, when one admits into membership.

Mr. H. The Sister Churches (Mr. R.) receive members of other Churches to communion, by an intrinsecal Church power.

Ans. By an authoritative Church power we can enjoyn our own members to come to the seals, or else censure them; but we cannot so deal with others, if it shall seem good to them to refuse.

Ans. This only follows, that the congregation hath a larger Church power over their own members, both to censure them, if they come not, and positively to admit them, if they come: but Mr. H. must confess that the congregation admits strangers of other congregations, by a meer private pwer, and by no Church power, which is gross Erastianisme, and makes it arbi∣trary to one single Pastor to admit some to the communion, as he pleaseth, and some not.

2. By no Church power is the Sacrament tendered to stran∣gers of another congregation; so may the Minister give this * seal to a stranger in his chamber, which is a private communion, for there is no authoritative Church power required to give it to some. Whereas Paul saith, it is a priviledge of the Church, coming together to eat the Lords Body, 1 Cor. 11. 17, 18, 21. 1 Cor. 10. 17.

Page  395 3. This Supper must be given to our own Church members by Church authority; to strangers by no Church authority.

4. It is by accident that the congregation cannot compel strangers to come to this seal, for in Collegio the Elders of the congregation may joyntly with the rest of the Presbytery cen∣sure these of another flock, who altogether refuse the seals.

5. Mr. H. grants that a congregation excommunicates in the*general nature of a congregation. Well then, the general nature discourseth in man; and so doth a Church in an Island excom∣municate; Ergo, that Church proceeding according to the rule of Christ, casts the man formally out of all the congregations on earth.

Mr. H. addeth, yea the neighbour Churches are (saith Mr. R.) to*exercise the punishment of avoiding the excommunicate person as an heathen, which follows from a power which is no wayes in them; what conscience is here?

Ans. A good conscience, if we may carry our selves to a scandalous mn so dclared by two or three witnesses, as we avoid his company; far more upon the testimony of a whole Church, are we to avoid his company.

Ans. Then nothing is left to the neighbour Churches, but is he excommunicate or not, by one onely congregation, they had no hand in it, onely they must believe the man is rightly cast out, upon the word of five or six of the male-Church, who are both Judge and Party. This is what I said. A declara∣ration of Excommunication is no Excommunication. And then must the congregations about with the meer judgment of di∣scretion, which women have, eschew the man as a Pagan.

Obj. By Mr. R. his way, you have the testimony of the Church only which did excommunicate?

Ans. Yea, place is left to many Churches and Synods to judg: this is another matter, then four of the male-Church that are both Judge and Party, who declare he is cast out.

Mr. H. One classical Church excommunicates not antecedenter. But a man in the confines of two Presbyteries is excommunicated by the Presbytery only of which he is a member, saith Mr. R.

Ans. What ropes can tie the consequent with the antece∣dent? Page  396 What Mr. R. hath said of the antecedent excommuni∣cation of the Catholick Church, is plain by the former dis∣cussion.


Whether there be a whole Catholick integral visible Church?

MR. H. The Catholick Church hath sometimes such a respect as totum integrae, an whole integral Catholick Church. So Aes.

Ans. D. Ames maintains that there is not only such a re∣spect, but that there is a Catholick integral Church; and he * never dreamed, nor any learned man of Mr. H. his Catholick Church affirmed of this or that congregation, and is as much as to say, Norwich is Catholick England. The Catholick Church of Angels and men in all ages, all times, all places, is not that integral Catholick visible Church which we make the subject of the Keyes.

But this integral Church militant, as existing in divers ages, is * before the congregation in the Lords intention, as the Lord in∣tends the organick body of man, and not a hand only; and a complete world, not a nation, not a City only; so his design is not for this or that congregation, but for a world of visible Churches, a whole seed, a willing people, Psal. 110. who is flowing to the mountain of the Lords house, Isa. 1. 1, 2. his flock and scattered sons, Isa. 9. 7. under the government of Christ by the Word, Seals, Censures, Luk. 1. 32, 33. make them in their Page  397 times, and places, all the world over, visible by profession, cal∣ling, gathering, feeding, Ier. 33. 31, 32. Zech. 8. 6, 7, 8. Psal. 2. 8, 9. Psal 72. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, &c. Rev. 11. 15. Psal 22. 27, 28. Iohn 15. 52. And the congregations come in here as seconda∣ry parts and parcels of Christs great visible flock. Mr. H. de∣nies this, and it is, as if a man would say there be two hands, ten fingers, two feet, head, eyes, ears, &c. but should deny there is an whole organick body; or as one should yeeld there are rivers, floods, fountains, seas, but deny there is such a thing as the integral element of water.

2. This integral militant body is before the congregation, in * the relation of a Spouse that hath breasts, and brings orth children, Isa. 54 1, 2. Cant. 3. 4. Cant. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4 Cant. 6. 4, 5, 6, 7 &c. in the relation of a body wrought upon by a Ministry, Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, 14, 15. the congregation is but his Spouse and body secondarily, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Some congregati∣on of seven or ten, where all may be of the stamp of Iudas and Magus, is abusively called the Spouse.

3. In duration and stability, there is a Church gifted with a * Ministry, having the Keys of the Kingdom built upon the rock, against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail, Mat. 16. 17, 18, 19. induring as the dayes of Heaven, which is so as the object of our faith, Isa. 59. 21. Psal. 89. 28, 29 &c. Ier. 31, 32, 33, &c. they are also a visible sheepfold of Jews and Gentiles, Iohn 10. 16. the building of God, the planting of the Lord, Isa. 61. 3, 4, 5, 6. Mich 7. 14, 15. & 5. 4, 7, 8. and the congre∣gations little companies in mount Zion.

4. There is a Church integral militant, visible, and in its * choisest part invisible, to whom as the subject, and for whom, as the end and object, are given the covenant, word, promises of life, ministry, seals, censures, in their saving fruits, as before is said, Ier. 31. 31, 32, &c. Ier. 32. 38, 39, 40. Psal. 132. 11, &c. these in an inferiour way the congregations have and enjoy.

5. The whole and complete work of the spirit in the Ministry * and Word, is terminated upon the Catholick integral militant body. Isa. 5. 20, 21. Eph. 5. 25, 26, 27, &c. and the congregation hath the waterings thereof in a lower way.

Mr. H. You cannot demonstrate out of Scripture, that there is*Page  398such a thing in the New Testament as a Catholick visible Church. Mr. R. saith the subject, 1 Cor. 12. 28. is a Catholick visible Church, not a politick body under one head, the Pope; but the Ca∣tholick body of Christ mystical, as visible.

Ans. The Catholick invisible body as visible, I conceive not; to consider a body invisible as visible, is a contradiction, as if a man would say, I consider whiteness as blackness.

Ans. 1 Cor. 12. is neither meant of a politick body, under the Pope. *

2. Nor a General Councel:

3. Nor of a Catholick visible body, that meet in the same place. Such is not found under the new Testament, whence he must mean that under the Old Testament. There was a Catho∣lick * visible Church of the Jewes that meets in the same place at one time, as the Brethren take a visible Church, which is un∣possible to be demonstrate in either Old or New Testa∣ment.

2. Mr. H. hath from me no such expression, as to consider * an invisible body as visible, though it be no contradiction, as is blackness and whiteness in abstracto. If Mr. R. had said, visible∣ness may be considered as invisibleness, Mr. H. should have better Logick; why is it a contradiction? The mystical body in common (saith he) is the invisible body. True, and the mystical body is both invisible, being the really chosen of God, and the object of our faith, and the same invisible Church which shall be presented without spot or wrinkle before the Lord, Eph. 5. 27. and the same Church and body is sanctified by the Word, preach∣ed and professed, and washed with Water in Baptism, v. 26. and so visible. And Eph. 4. the body which shall come to the unity of faith, and to the perfect man, the Stature of Christ, Eph. 4. 13. is the mystical, and savingly believing body, and so in∣visible; & also the body of Christ gathered by the ministry visi∣ble, and edified by the word preached and professed, is v. 12. the same body, and must be visible, for Apostles & Pastors preach to the visible Church. A child in Logick can conceive, the same po∣litick body savingly believing to be invisible, and also savingly professing what they believe to be visible. So the twelve Apo∣stles, Act. 6. are both real, and so invisible believers, as no Page  399 man doubts (Iudas being in his place) and the Scripture in it, Mat. 19. 27, 28, 29. Luke 12. 32. Luke 22. 28, 29, 30. and he is not worthy to be refuted, who denies the same twelve Apo∣stles in another respect to be visible professors, visible prea∣chers of the Gospel. So Peter, as touching his soul, is invisible and immortal, as touching his body, visible and mortal. I can∣not help it, that Mr. H. conceives this to be a contradiction. I observe (saith he) that Mr. R. puts visible in an equal latitude with mystical.

Ans. Adde to the observation, that in this I take not visible * for Mr. H. his visibility, which agreeth to Magus and Iudas; but that sincere and honest visible profession, that for the most part is in the Catholick integral militant redeemed body, and mystical, well neer of an equal breadth and latitude. Not but that there may be, and are many beleevers members of the my∣stical body, who have little or no visible profession. But it is enough to assert as truth, that one and the same body is both invisible, mystical, and the saved body, and also visible, and clo∣thed with a real sincere profession; and that both these agree to the Catholick integral militant Church. Though I deny not, but that there be many hypocrites in this great body, whose mi∣nisterial acts are valid. But the Catholick visible Church in that latitude is not then both subject, object, and intended end of all Ordinances. And I speak now of it.

Mr. H. I cannot think that Mr. R. takes the Catholick Church for the whole integral body.

Ans. It is mistaking charity of me. Mr. H. that Church is meant 1 Cor. 12. in which God sets teachers, helps, ordinary officers, first∣ly, v. 28. But God sets not such in the integral body; for they are set by the election of the people in particular congregations, Acts 14. 23. & 6. 5. Tit. 1. 5.

Ans. This is my own argument, but not rightly formed; that Church is here meant, in which the Lord hath respective∣ly placed first Apostles—and Teachers, both Extraordinary and Ordinary Officers. But God hath not set Apostles fixedly and firstly over congregations, they being organs of the Ca∣tholick integral body, and are sent to preach to Heathen (who after were Churches. As it is said, Iacob served for a Wife, to be Page  400 married, not married as yet) who could not choose the Apo∣stles as their pastors.

2. Workers of miracles were not chosen by a single congre∣gation, no such as had the gift of Tongues, 1 Cor. 14. 22. Tongues are for a sign to them that believe, not to them that be∣lieve*not. See the Divines on the place. Miracles and Tongues were to perswade unbelievers, and were not firstly set to con∣gregations, nor could have any imaginable election and call from them.

3. The places, as elsewhere is said, prove not any thing to the point.

Mr. H. Arg. 2. In what Church Pastors are firstly set over them, they have firstly and primarily pastoral power in dispencing acts of ruling and preaching: But ordinary Teachers have not this over the Catholick visible Church. Congregations may justly refuse to hear other Teachers then their own; but their own may preach to them, though they refuse to hear.

Ans. Every word is censurable. 1. Apostles were 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, firstly both in regard of dignity of Office, and of Apostolick Universality, sent to all Nations to preach, not to a single con∣gregation to exercise pastoral acts firstly over it, as fixed Pa∣stors.

2. By a catholick Church Mr: H. means (sed suis musis solus canit) a congregation. Now if the Apostles be firstly set in the congregation in general, they must be secondarily set in this individual congregation; then must the ordinary Teacher be set before the Apostle, who was often his sender, in the individual congregation.

3. The Proposition is false: A pastor may tender the Lords Supper to hundreds of a sister-congregation; but Mr. H. I hope, will not say that a pastor is set over, and firstly over hun∣dreds of another congregation. The Antecedent and conse∣quence are both Mr. Hookers.

4. Its false that ordinary Teachers have not power to exer∣cise pastoral acts to those of other congregations. Nor is it proved, they cannot exercise pastoral acts over them, because they cannot censure them. Its an illogical consequence, ordinary to Mr. H. The Apostles, both as Apostles, by miracles and the Page  401 gift of Tongues, plant Churches among the Heathen, and as pastors they exercise ordinary pastoral acts to the Heathen, in * planting and preaching the Gospel to them, but they could not draw out Church-censures against the Heathen, yet remaining Heathen, because of the incapacity of the object, they could not cast them out who were not yet within: 1 Cor. 5. 12, 13. but this they could not do not through want of pastoral power over them.

5. Its false, that other Churches may justly refuse to hear other Teachers than their own: For if their own be sick and dead, or if other Teachers have an earnest suit and desire from their own officers and some one of the congregation, they most unjustly refuse to hear, and come under the guilt of despising Christ in despising his Messengers, as Mat. 10. 40. Luke 10. 16. Ioh. 13 20. except the sense be, He that receiveth not his own congregational pastor, receiveth not me, otherwise not. A strange and new sense!

6. If the flock refuse all their own pastors to hear them, as being ravening Wolves, they unpastor them, and recall the official being, which our Brethren say they gave them in ele∣ction, and so unjustly refuse to hear them; and they cannot justly preach to them, who so refuse to hear, for they justly re∣fuse, a Mr. H. teacheth.

Mr. H. God must either (saith Mr. H) have pl••ed in all the*Church Catholick, Apostles, Teachers, which we say, or then in some part of it onely. And what is that part which is excepted? Surely he intends not salvation to that part of the Church in the which he sets no Teachers.

Ans. At the common nature of a Corporation exists in all corporations; so the congregation-nature exists in this or this con∣gregation—So if the nature of a Corporation be common to all, and the King hath set Major and Common-councel in all and every Town: Therefore the Major of one Town may rule in another. So all States set Generals, Colonels, Captains in the Army. The King sets Constables in all towns, Sheriffs in all counties: Be∣cause Constables are common to all towns, therefore a Constable may exercise his office in another town.

Ans. 1. The Argument must run thus: As the King hath Page  402 set in England the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, the Lord Chief Justice, the Sheriff, the Constable in every County and * Town; so hath God set in his Church, that is, in the congrega∣tion, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, &c. But the King hath set in England the Lord Keeper, the Lord Chief Justice, the Con∣stable in every County, in every Town, how many Great Seals, how many Lords of Chief Justice should then be in England? And do not our ound Divines condemn in Papists the Argu∣ment from civil Government, and honour due to persons in the point of the government of Gods House, and of adoring of God in Images? He is a stranger to Bellarmine, Valentia, Suarez, Vasquez, Tanerus, &c. and to our Divines, Reynold, Chamier, Calvin, Bucanus, Tilenus, Daneus, Chemnitius, Lu∣ther, &c. who knows not this.

2. Neither major Proposition nor Assumption have any truth: for hath God set the Apostles, the planters and framers of Churches out of heathen societies, in no Chair, but fixed them to a congregational Pulpit onely? The Apostles have care of all things, 2 Cor. 11. 28. command Schismatick Churches, 2 Cor. 10. 8. plant and lay the foundation of Churches, as wise Master-builders, Acts 16. 12. 13, 14, 15, 16. & 18. 7, 8, 9, 10, 1 Cor. 3. 6. 11. appoint new offices in the Church, Acts 6. 6. * Now if God have seated the Apostles in such a way in every congregation, as ordinary Teachers are, then the Apostles pro∣per place must be onely to water and confirm visible converts, and members of a fixed and framed congregation; where then are the Apostles Letters Patents to build, to plant, to lay the foundation?

3. When its said, as it must be, or it comes not home, the King hath placed in England the whole integral body of the Kingdom of England, the Lord Keeper, the Lord chief Justice, the Constable, as he hath placed in the Church Apostles and Teachers in the whole integral Church: These extraordinary and ordinary officers it cannot be meant, the King hath placed a Lord Keeper, and a Lord chief Justice in every Town and City of England; so neither hath the Lord placed an Apostle in every congregation upon the same account, and he who is Page  403 an Apostle in one congregation, can no more be an Apostle in another, than a Major of one City can be a Major in another: and it must run so; The State hath placed a General, Colonels, Captains in their Armies, i. e. in every particular society of the Armies, and so every company must have a General, therefore hath the State set Generals, Colonels, Captains in their Armies in the plural number. Now the State hath set but one General over all the Army, as the Church is but one.

4. If the Argument run thus: As the Major of Norwich* may not rule as Major of York; so neither may a pastor in one congregation teach & rule as a pastor in another congrega∣tion. This is utterly false: and its an Argument like this, As God hath confined Rulers to one society onely in the civil State, so hath he confined the officers of his Sons House: one word of Scripture to prove this should silence Mr. R. Its not lawful to devise parallels between the Civil State and Christs Kingdome. Suppose all the Majors, Rulers, Citizens of all the Cities and Towns in England had the same divine right to command in all the Cities and Towns in England, and that these Majors were Rulers equally and in common to all those Towns, and that it were a matter of providential Order, not of Divine Jurisdiction, that A. B. should be fixed Major of Norwich, and C. D. fixed Major of York, and so forth: then if C. D. by providence should be at Norwich, he might rule as a Major at Norwich, or any Town or City of England, as well as at York: and so is here the matter; a called pastor is a pastor, and may act pastorally, and dispense the Seal of the Lords Sup∣per to those of another congregation, say our Brethren, and so to another whole congregation; for there is the same reason in both.

So all visible professors have the same divine Church-right to the same Christ the Head:

2. To the same Gospel and Covenant of grace: (for dstinct Church-covenants are mens lawless inventions, as used by our Brethren.)

3. To the same Lords Supper, 1 Cor. 10. 17.

4. To the same eternal life So Mr. H. shall gain nothing by this, but lose: for there is no such right civil, common to Page  404 civil Rulers and civil Citizens. One Town hath City priviledges that no other Town in the Kingdom hath.

Mr. H. Right of Iurisdiction flowing from office-call, a Pastor hath not, save in his own congregation.

Ans. There must be one call or other for a Pastor to ex∣ercise his office: but a new office, or new right of jurisdiction * other then pastoral, which he received in ordination, is not re∣quisite for a pastor to act as a pastor. Yea, he sins against his office-charge and talent, if in all congregations he do not preach the word, be instant in season and out of season (not at Ephesus only, for an Evangelist, such as Timothy was, not an ordinary fixed Teacher) if he do not reprove, rebuke, and ex∣hort with all long-suffering, 2 Tim. 4. 1, 2. The danger of pe∣rishing of souls, or the absence, or removal of the Pastors by death, is a fit call of God, though the greater part of Sardis love not to be rebuked.

Mr. H. God hath set in his Church, i. e. in the congregation existing in its particulars, Apostles, &c. and therefore all con∣gregations*are here intended.

Ans. 1. By this God hath set Apostles, Miracles, in the sin∣gle congregation, whether as Apostles, or as Pastors, if the former, speaking with Tongues, working of Miracles, which are for unbeleevers and heathen, 1 Cor. 14. 22. shall be officers or gifts ordained for visible Saints converted. By what Scrip∣ture?

2. Though the Church exclude not the congregations, but in some respects include them; yet it is a body called Christ mystical, v. 12. to which Christ is head by influence of his spi∣rit, and brings no small consolation to us, as Beza, Calvin, Pet. Martyr, who make this the Catholick Church.

3. Whereas Mr. H. his single congregation of Magus and Iudas can hardly stand under the weight of that denomi∣nation.

Nor 4 can it well be said, that great Apostles, Prophets, workers of Miracles, such as speak with Tongues, are eyes and ears fixed in single congregations; for this is such an organical body, v. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. Never Interpreter, neither Occu∣menius,Page  405 nor Augustine, nor Beza, Calvin, Martyr, Pareus, nor * judicious Papists, Victorinus, Carthusian, Estius, Cajetanus, expound it, as Mr. H. of a single congregation, but of the Ca∣tholick Church (saith Martyr) of men of all nations (saith Pa∣reus) though they dwell in divers places of the earth (saith Pa∣reus) this is the mystical body (saith Estius) membra autem om∣nes fideles, the members are all the faithful. He proves (saith Cajetanus) omnes Christianos esse unum corpus Christi, all Chri∣stians (behold the Catholick Church) to be the one body of Christ, because they are all begotten into one Spirit by Bap∣tism.

4. The Church here is the Church all baptized into one bo∣dy, whether Iews or Gentiles, whether Bond or Free, which all drink the same drink in the Lords Supper. Mr. H. In all these congregations are comprehended both Iewes and Gentiles, for the whole nature of the General is comprehended in the Particulars. Well; and the Spirit that is in all the body must be one Genere, and the drink in the Lords Supper must be one Genere, and so must the Christ of which we partake be one Genere Hence there being many species and kinds of congregations different in na∣ture, there must be many Christs different in nature, many Spi∣rits, many Bodies, many Lords Suppers different in species and nature, of which we partake. Who ever heard in the Church of Christ many Christs, many Baptismes?

Yet Mr. H. makes many congregations so different in na∣ture, as he that hath right to Christ, Seals, especially Baptism, Page  406 hath no more right to Christ, Baptism to his seed, censures in another congregation, then a Turk hath.

5. Its absurd that Jewes and Gentiles are all baptized unto one single congregation. We do not think that the Apostles (ad Ioh. Baptist) baptized all the thousands, as tryed converts, into visible framed Congregations, whom they bptized, Mat. 3. So the Brethren. We think the contrary. Nor can such dream, as that these thousands so baptized can be warrantably obtru∣ded as a platform of discipline upon the Churches of Christ.

5. This (we are all one) must be in the head Christ, and by faith really apprehending Christ; yea, as the Father and the * Son are one, Iohn 17. 21, now not only members of an Inde∣pendent congregation are so one, but also all beleevers of a Province, of a Nation; yea, all that shal beleeve in God, through the word of the Apostles, Iohn 17. 20. and all given of the Fa∣ther to Christ: who shall behold the glory that the Father hath given to Christ, Iohn 17. 24. and who abide in him as branches in the Vine tree, Iohn 15 4. Except we say no Be∣lievers, even dissolved Members, and such as live in the Church of Rome by faith, and yet are afraid to confess, are not one with God, by faith, because they are not members of the sin∣gle congregation.

6. No more can it be said, we are all one, as touching the nature of Ordinances and Seals, so we beleeve. But so Iudas, Magus, and a congregation of these is the body of Christ their head. Give Scripture for that.

2. Not the single Congregation only, but also all these of divers congregations. who eat one bread, being many, are one body, 1 Cor. 10. 17. by our brethrens grant.

3. This is an union by institution, conditional, and actu pri∣mo: but the Text speaks of a real union by faith and the spirit, 2 Cor. 12. 13.

7. By this interpretation, when Paul saith the body is one, he meaneth a generick body; and the particular congregations are subjective parts, suitable to the whole: Now it is uncon∣ceivable to know how congregations are eyes, and ears, and organs to congregations, except there be an integral whole body, which they deny: nor do we think that congregations Page  407 are organs, in the sense that Apostles or Teachers are organs * to watch officially over congregations: but otherwise the El∣ders of congregations are official organs, and overseers to the associate congregations.

2. It is only an elegant Allegory, and holdeth only in the parti∣culars for which it is brought, especially in organical care and sympathy, to be grieved, and suffer with suffering members, and to rejoice with the honoured members, 1 Cor. 12. 26. Rom. 12. 5, 15.

And 3. Congregations are visible members one of another, in regard of eminency of gifts, holiness and zeal. As Paul, 1 Cor. 19. 9, 10, 11. 2 Cor. 11. 28. Iames beheaded, Acts 12. Iohn was eminent for suffering, Rev. 1. what Eusebius, Ierome,* say of Iames the Son of Alpheus called Iustus, thrown over the Pinacle of the Temple, Simon of Canaan crucified under Tra∣janus: prove they dying for the truth, not as Apostles, but as eminent witnesies, edified by their gifts ad zeal the whole Ca∣tholick Church. Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, An∣drew crucified in Achaia, Matthew beheaded in Ethiopia, Bar∣tholomew in Armenia, Simon Zelotes in Britain. The eminency and learning of the Martyr Cyprian, Athanaius his soundness in the faith against Arrians, Epiphanius against the Heresies of * his time, Nazianzen against the Heresie of Apollinaris, Basilius against the Heresie of Eunomius: Hilarius, Ambrose instrumen∣tal against Arrians, Augustine against Pelagians, Donatists: and huge multitudes of famous instruments through the Catho∣lick Church, prove, that they were not eminent as members only of a single congregation, but that congregations in their eminent members are organs, members and parts of the Catho∣lick integral Church visible. For all these were more visible in their times, for the good of the Catholick body, then of a part or single Independent congregation.

8. Organs as organs are onely and principally for the pro∣per functions and operations and good of that body whereof they are organs onely, the eye to see for that body: and should the eye of Iohn see for Peter, Paul, and thousands of individual men, it should not be the eye of Peter onely: no more can Apostles who see for all the Churches, Mat. 28. 20. Gal. 2. 7 8. Page  408 2 Cor. 11. 28. Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. and such as have the gift of Tongues and Miracles to speak to all Nations in their own lan∣guage, for the planting of the Gospel, be set as eyes and or∣gans, to see and watch for a single congregation where the Go∣spel is received and believed already, and where ordinarily they speak one language.

9. The absurd inconsistency of Mr. H. is clear in his inter∣pretation; All the members of the body being many, are one body, that is, one genere, for the genus exists and acts in the particu∣lar kindes, pag. 247. So Paul must teach us Logick, and one∣ness Metaphysical here, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, which Scripture teacheth us not. Sure, here it is not taught, for the oneness here is in Christ, v. 12. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. in one Spirit of Christ, v. 13. in one common office of love, to work every one for another, and the use of another, v. 14, 15, 16. in one sympathy and fellow∣feeling of affection, that one member suffer and rejoyce ac∣cordingly with another, v. 26.

10. Ver. 21. The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee. By Mr. H. his interpretation, one Church Independent of Boston can say, I have no member need, no organical-need of Hartford Church, and so the gloss of Mr. H. contradicts the holy Ghost. It will not help what our Brethren say, One con∣gregation*hath need of another, for rebuking, teaching, counsel∣ling.

1. For a Papist, an heathen Idolater stands in need of a Chri∣stian to rebuke and convince him of his Idolatry, but its no member-need such as Paul meaneth; for Papists, heathen Ido∣laters, and a sound Christian, are not fellow-members of one and the same visible body of Christ baptized by one Spirit, of which Paul speaketh, ver. 12, 13, 14, 15 &c. Iohn blinde hath need of Thomas his eyes to lead him, but that is not member∣need, or vital body-organical-need, for then the eyes of Tho∣mas should be organs and members of Iohn; its onely extrin∣secal need. So that yet every congregation must say to another, I the congregation of Boston have no need of thee my sister, or of any congregation on earth, in the sense of the holy Ghost, 1 Cor 12. as one member of the body hath need of another, the head of the feet, for I am a complete Independent body, having no member∣need Page  409 of any sister Church on earth.

2. If one congregation stand in member need of all the congregations of Jew and Gentile baptized unto one body, 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 22. to tender the Supper upon occasion to them and their members, as Scripture, 1 Cor. 10. 16, 17. and our Brethren teach; and stand in need of the Church-praying, Church-praising, Church confirmation by pa∣storal teaching of eminent Teachers, and of Church suffering, &c. by Martyrdome and otherwise; Then must that congrega∣tion be a visible member with all visible congregaions on earth, and, by good Logick, all the congregations on earth are one integral catholick visible Church.

11. If the Apostle here condemn a Schism and Rent, not from one single congregation onely, but from the body of Jews and Gentiles baptized into one Spirit, ver. 12, 13. & 25. from the Churches of Galatia, Gal. 5 20. from all Churches, Iude v. 19. and commend union with all Churches, because of one Faith, one Lord, one Baptism, Eph. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. then he supposes they are one Body. Cyprian B. of Carthage, Cornelius B. of *Rome, justly excommunicated Novatus, denying mercy to them that fell: Ergo, those great Churches made one visible body, and the Novatians were not Schismaticks, because they sepa∣rated from one single congregation; but, saith Socrates, they hindred the Churches from union. Augustine and Optatus Melivit. and the Fathers make the Donatists Schismaticks in separating from the catholick Church, and denying there was any Church but their own in one part of Africa. See Pet. Martyr learnedly disputing about Schism; and Calvin. See Aug. and Opt. Melivitan.

12. Its true (saith Mr. H.) of all congregations, that the mem∣bers do and should care one for another.

Ans. And this (12) I bring for one Argument, if this gloss Page  410 of Mr. H. remove all member-care and all organical-care of suffering and joy, such as is betwixt the members of the same body, from congregations toward all other congregations, as toward their fellow-members, and limit member care, and mem∣ber fellow-feeling, to only members of the same congregation: then this gloss must contradict the holy Ghost, 1 Cor. 12. 26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it, or one member be honoured, all the members rejoyce with it: for this gloss saith, I the Church of Boston, complete and independent within my self, care not with member care for all the congrega∣tions on earth, though they utterly perish; nor do I rejoyce with the fellow-feeling joy of fellow-members, at the honour and spiritual good of all the congregations on earth. Sure this doctrine cannot * be of God, which is so contrary to Scripture; for that was not typical in the Old Testament, that the members of the Jewish Church should sorrow and rejoyce with members of that covenanted Nation, as with those mmbers of the same body; as David, Psal. 19. 2. & 122. 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 & 119. 63. Moses, Exod. 2. 11. Heb. 11. 24, 25. Mordecai and Esther, Esth. 2. 1, 2. ver. 15, 16, 17. cap. 21, 22. and the captive people, Psal. 137. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. and Ieremiah, cap. 9. 1, 2, 3. Ezekiel, cap. 9. 8. & 11. 13. Daniel, cap. 9 16, 17, 18, &c. but we are not to mourn with those that mourn, nor to rejoyce with those that rejoyce, as Rom. 12. 15, with a fellow-feeling affection, as with members of the same visible body, though their weal and woe be most visible to us, as their Church and Saintship is, except with those onely who are members of the same Independent congregation, for they are not of the body of which we are members: as the body of Socrates feels no member pain when the finger of Iohn is cut off.

7. There is a body to be gathered into the unity of faith, * and of the knowledge of the Son of God, a body to be glo∣rified, Eph. 4. 13. Now this is the Catholick Body of Christ, * and the Lords end why he gave Apostles, Prophets and Doctors, till we be all glorified; and this Church is visible, because gathered and edified by a Ministry, they are the visible Church which is fed by Ministers.

The Church built upon the Rock, against which the gates of *Page  411 hell cannot prevail, can be no single congregation, for the gates of hell prevail against the single congregation; therefore it must be the Catholick Church which only continues to the * end. And this Church is visible, for to the Ministers thereof are the Keyes given to open and shut the Kingdom of Heaven by the word preached, seals and censures, Matth. 16. Ergo, there is a Catholick integral militant Church visible.

If Christ reign by the preached word, seals and censures, over * the Kingdoms of the World, Rev. 11. 15. over the Nations, Isa. 2. 1, 2. Psal. 2 8, 9. Psal. 22. 27, 28. Psal. 96. 10, 11, 12. Psal. 97. 1, 2, 3, 4, &c. Psal. 98. 7, 8 9. Psal. 99. 1, 2, 3. and have a visi∣ble government in the house of David, Isa. 9. 7. over the earth, Isa. 11. 4, 10, 11. from sea to sea, Psal. 72. 8 &c. then is there a Catholick integral visible Church: but the former is true.

Obj. All our Divines say it is a Popish tenet, that the Catho∣lick Church is visible: our Divines acknowledge no Church visi∣ble, but only a particular Church.

Ans. Mr. Hudson a learned and godly man reaps so cleanly, * that I shall not cast any sickle into his field, no is there need.

1. The Papists contend for a catholick visible Church, to set their man of sin over it: this Church includeth (some of them say) Purgatory, and Heaven, and Hell, of both which he bears * the Keys. Salmeron, Cornel, à Lapide, they may be loosed that are under the earth by Keys, as members of the body. He gives (saith Cornelius à Lapide) pardons to the dead (invisible members indeed) not by way of juridical absolution, for the dead are no longer subjects on earth, but by way of suffrage. Bllarmin proves from Pet. Cluniacens. that the dead in Purga∣tory Page  412 are members of the catholick Church. And the Pope (saith Bellarmin) as the chief dispenser of the treasures of the Church, may bestow upon those in Purgatory, bona opera poena∣lia quae in Thesauro sunt, the good works of the godly done by way of suffering. In this the Catholick Church cannot be visible.

2. The Papists contend for a catholick Church visible, such as we believe to be the catholick Church in the Apostles Creed. So Bellarmin makes the name of Catholicks, and the name of Christians all one, and the catholick Church a tree from which, through divers times and ages, branches have been cut. And so must be, as Rodericus de Arriaga, Catholick, extending it self * all the world over in divers ages and times. Ad. Tannerus, The Church is called Catholick for the Universality of the Do∣ctrine, and the Universality of Time, from the beginning of the World to the end, enduring or ever; and for the Univer∣sality of the Place. Now they make the Pope the head and chief Pastor of this Church catholick. D. Whitaker saith, the catholick Church contains not only the Church of our time, but the Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, and all the Saints which have been, are, or shall be to the end; and is this Church which is made up of the Churches of these times visible. These Monks must be exceeding sharp sighted (saith Anton. Sadeel) who see this Church, and see the Apostles and Martyrs in Hea∣ven.

Page  413 3. Nor hath Mr. H. cause to cast this signification of visi∣ble, that it is taken for conspicuous and glorious. Nor is it worthy the refuting, that he aith that Bellarmin distinguisheth visible and conspicuously glorious; for he must split a hair of the head, as to its latitude, who can distinguish Bellarmins fif∣teen notes: many of his own side reduce them to a fewer number.

2. Conspicuity of glory is but visibility in such and such ways, * as amplitude and multitude all the world over; visibility in glo∣ry of preaching, of working miracles, and victory over their enemies, and external prosperity, which are things most visible, and not done in a corner.

3. Their own men speak not, but as Mr. Hudson doth, the Jesuits of Rhemes An. 3. on Matth. 5. explain this conspicuity, The light of the World, and City on a Mountain, and Candle upon a Candlestick, signifieth the Clergy and whole Church, which must needs be visible to the World. See how D. Fulk and Mr. Cartwright answers them. Malderus a Bish. Antwer. profess. Lov. in 22. de virtu. Theol. de Obj. fidei disp. 1. A. 10. q. 3. The Catholicks yield that the Church is not ever aequè conspicuam, alike conspicuous, Res. ad 3. Habet tamen suas proprietates visibiles, It hath its visible properties, true miracles, works of holiness, antiquity, visible succession, perseverance on the rock: and this is all one as to be conspicuous and visibly glorious. Gre∣gor. de Valentia Tom. 3. in 22. disp. 1. q. 1. de Obj. fidei punct. 7. 6. propriet. p. 142, 143. The Church is not adeo conspicua, that it may be seen with the eyes, but yet it may evidenter omni seculo conspici, be evidently in every age seen, known, and pointed out by the finger, as a City on a mountain, Matth. 5. as the Sun in the Heaven, Psal. 19. And disp. 1. q. 1, punct. 4. pag. 78, 79. he proves the glory of miracles, and other the like, make the Church of Page  414Rome, and not of Sectaries (as he names us) to be visibly known to all the world. And Tannerus Tom. 3. de fide, spe, q. 1. dis. 3. dub. 3. n. 85. Insignibus quibusdam notis inter omnes alios coetus eminet, its conspicuous and glorious above all other societies, by these properties, that it is One, 2. Holy, 3. Catholick in Do∣ctrine, Time, Places. And Causabon. in Epistola ad Cardinalem Baronium. Olim Ecclesia Catholica similis civitati supra mon∣tem positae nullo pacto dubia erat, sed nota omnibus, perspicua, cer∣ta, longè latèque per orbem diffusa, sub Imperatoribus florens, quorum dominatio ab ortu ad Occasum, à Septentrione ad Meridi∣em porrigebatu—at distractionem imperii postea secuta est di∣stractio Ecclesiae Catholicae, ex illo tempore Ecclesia Catholica non desiit esse quidem, sed minus illustris esse coepit. So Iunius disp. Theolo. 43. Th 11. It may be there is no particular Church publicè nota, publickly known on earth, but that all have losed their external splendor. And what this differs from conspicuity and glory let Mr. H. or any man shew: and what glory and conspicuity is in the Christian Churches, and what Sea-ebbings and flowings that glory hath, read (though all be not to be believed which some say) Philip Nicolai. l. 1. de Regno Christ. &c. Bellarmin de notis Eccles. l. 4. c. 7. Io. Gerard. to. 5. de Ec∣cles.*c. 11. sect. 5. n. 184, 185, 186. Euseb. l. 5. Hist. c. 24. Cy∣prian. de unit. Eccles. Tertullian. contra Iudaeos c. 3. Vega. in opus. de fid. & oper. praesertim. c. 3. Acosta Iesuit. de procuratione Iudorum salutis.

Page  415 4. Its not to be passed, that our Divines condemn a visible * catholick Church only under one Pastor, the Bishop of Rome, the ministerial head and catholick Pastor of Pastors over all the catholick Church on earth, and taking upon him to be Pastor of Pastors: yea, and the Church of Rome is perpetually visible, and (saith Valentia) the Pope is the only head of this catholick visible Church. The Hereticks (saith Suarez) deny in the catho∣lick Church (subjected to the Pope, as the visible head) pro∣prietates ullas visibiles, any visible properties by which it may be known from the Churches of Satan. And therefore the Church must be invisible—and therefore they deny omnem externam hierarchiam Ecclesiae, caput visibile, regulam fidei animatam & visibilem, all the external sacred order of Prelates, the visible head, the living and vsible rule of faith. That visibility of a head catholic, and visible body under that head we profess that we deny. Now that the Pope should be the only Pastor of a Church, which by no possibility he can see, and that he is the only feeder of such a flock, to him invisible: Suppose he had the eyes of Argu ten thousand times, is that visibility of a Page  416 Church catholick, of a Church Diocesian, which we deny and detest? but we deny not, but teach that the Church is visible in a right sense.

And 1. we teach that the catholick Church militant on earth is visible in its parts, though it be not in its whole bulk and body all at once visible, as Amesius, who also is in some points * for this new way of Independency. So the whole body of the Heaven in both the Hemispheres is visible when enlightned with the Sun, yet is not the whole Heaven all at once visible to any man living So the whole element of Water is visible, not all at once, and yet is so visible in its parts, in the parts of the Sea, Rivers, Floods, as it were non-sense to say such a part of the Heaven, and of the Sea, as in day light is obvious to our eyes, were simply invisible, in that sense, that we say the my∣stical body of the catholick Church of sound Believers is invisi∣ble, and believed, but not seen.

2. Therefore the Church catholick is 1. considered as com∣prehending all the families in Heaven and Earth, Eph. 3. 15. *Heb. 12. 22, 23. Col 1. 20. this is the most large catholick Church consisting of elect Men and Angels.

2. The catholick Church is that company of redeemed men for whom Christ died, and it contains all that have been, are, or shall be, that are clarified and presented without spot or wrinkle, sanctified by the washing of water by the word, Eph. 5. 25. Husbands love your Wives, as Christ also loved the Church—27. that he might present it to himself a glorious Church, &c. and to this is the place Eph. 1. 22, 23. referred. For which see Calvin, Beza, Zanchius on the place, and especially solidly learned D. D. Boyd of Trochrigge, learned and sharp Mr. Paul Baines in their learned Commentaries on Ephes. 1. 21, 22. Hence Augustine, It contains all the sanctified ones. But we do not now contend with Papists concerning the catholick Church in * its latitude of these two acceptions.

As 1. Whether the Elect Angels, and the Glorified in Hea∣ven, and these that are to be members of the catholick visible Church, but are not yet born, are visible members?

2. Whether the Pope be visible head, and have the power of the Keyes to feed with word, censures, and seals, the Elect Page  417 Angels, the Patriarchs, Prophets, Martyrs, &c. who are now preferred in glory?

3. Whether the Church catholick in that latitude containing such noble members, can erre in a general Councel, or out of it, or can erre in Fundamentals, and cease to be a Church? As to the latter acceptions, our Divines condemn Papists, who tell us that the Pope is the visible head of the visible catholick Church: we say we believe there is a catholick Church, but visible it is not. And neither Mr. Hudson, nor I, nor any of ours do dispute for a catholick integral visible Church, or for a catholick body of Presbyters and Officers that are, have been, and now are glorified, and shall be born, as if they were the first formal subject of the Keyes. Mr. H. loses his time in blot∣ting paper to make us dispute any such question, and to bring in popish inferences against us in that.

But 3. there is an integral catholick visible Church, to and * for which Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, &c. The Lord hath given all his Ordinances, as by succession of ages it exist∣eth on earth. See the accurate Confession of Faith. See judicious dispute of the Professors of Leyden by Anton. Walaeus worthy to be read of all, in which they solidly observe, that many con∣found the particular Church, and the visible, and invisible, and universal Church which are indeed to be distinguished, for the universal integral Church is in its own way visible.

1. In its parts, as is said before.

2. In the community of profession of the same faith, both in preaching, confession, and writings, so that it hath no sense to limit visibility to one single congregation, as our Brethren doe. For our eyes may as well see two congregations, and many to be visible Saints, and to worship in a Church-way the same Lord Iesus, as we see the members of our own one congrega∣tion.

3. Whether Synods be for counsel and advice only, as our Brethren say?

Or 2. For pastoral teaching, and dogmatick determining of truths, for edification, as Mr. Cotton contrary to his Brethren teacheth.

Or 3. For jurisdiction: it is against common sense, to deny Page  418 that the integral catholick Church is visible in Synods, whether Occumenical, or National, or Provincial; For the representa∣tive is as visible as the congregation. And whereas our Divines say, that the Church is invisible, because faith which is the speci∣fick and constitutive form of the Church, is invisible, and known only to God the searcher of hearts; they are not so to be ex∣pounded, as if this were their argument to prove that the ca∣tholick Church is invisible, and the congregation only visible. * Nor do they use such an argument for such a conclusion; for the true faith of a congregation is as invisible and known to God only; yea, the faith of one single member is as latent and invisible to the eye of sense, and more latent then the faith of the whole catholick visible Church: for faith is perswaded there is a visible Church, for the Scripture saith, that Christ hath a seed: but the Scripture sayes not that this or that man, or that this congregation hath saving faith. Its true, the profession of the catholick Church is, because of the universality, of Saints remoter from our senses, and so less visible; which hinders not that to be true which our Divines say, that in time of great persecution, the Churches knew not one another, as saith Augustine, who also compareth her to the Moon, which * is often id, as in the time of Elias. And Ierom tells that the Christian World sighed under Arrianism. The Pope by cruel wars banished those called Waldenses, Albigenses, Pauperes de Lugduno Picardi; until Wickliff rose there, was (saith D. Fulk) about the time of 350. years, great darkness. See Cartwright. Nor is it possible for Mr. H. to prove, that when our Divines do say, particular Churches are visible, that they mean Mr. H. his particular Independent congregations only: he is a great stranger in our Divines writings, who knows not, that from Matth. 18. Tell the Church, they prove that a general Coun∣cel hath juridical power to censure Peter, or the Pope. Since learning was, it was never counted a point of popery (except all our Reformers be Papists) which Mr. H. citeth from Turri∣anus, if it be spoken in Thesi (but he applies it to the visible bo∣dy under the Pope in Hypothesi) for it is but what Beda and o∣thers say from Scripture, Eph. 4. 1, 2. But as Papists in Thest speak soundly in the attribute of Omnipotency: so here, when Page  419 in Hypothest applying the Doctrine of Omnipotency to their * miracles, to Transubstantiation, to Adoration of Images, they vanish in vain speculations. Nor can we deny, but some of our own have gone too far: one in saying, that the Churches of the Apostles were not so numerous, but they met all in one place, and that the Church of Alexandria, Hierapolis, Ierusa∣lem, were congregations that met in one place: they would explain their mind in that point more circumstantiately, if they were to speak thereof again. But their purpose is in the point of Prelacy to prove a true conclusion of P. Bains, that the Scripture gives no warrant to a Diocesan Church, that is, to 60 or 100 congregational Churches to be fed by Word, Seals and Censures, by one little Monarch called a Prelate: whereas the Church fed so, as is said, is a single congregation meeting in the same place, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.

2. There cannot be an ordinary exercise of the Keys by the weekly converse of the Officers of 80 or 100 Churches so many miles separated one from another.

3. Its true, Eusebius in divers places calls the Churches of Alexandria, Hierapolis, &c. Par••cias, congregational meetings; and Ignatius writes to the Church of Ephesus, that they should convene 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; and Tertullian saith, the Churches of his time met in one body. All which is true of the Churches distri∣butively. But Cyprian shall resute them, who says, the Church of Carthage was one congregation. Scripture, Reason, Fa∣thers, shall quickly speak against them, who shall say the Church of Rome, of Constantinople, were one congregational Church under Cornelius and Chrysostome.

Page  420


Ordination, not Election of the people, gives the essentials to Officers. 2. The method and order of Ordination and Election. 3. The place 1 Tim. 4. 14. touching the laying on of hands of the Presbytery, is opened. 4. The necessity of laying on of hands. 5. Designa∣tion to a certain flock is not essential to a Pastor.

MR. H. Ordination, according to the minde of Mr. R. and*his method, as preceding the Election of the people, doth not give the essentials to the outward call of a Minister.

Ans. Ordo causandi non tollit ipsam c••salitatem. If Plate say the soul was created before the body, this will not prove but body and soul are essential causes of man. So because Or∣dination administred Mr. R. his way and method gives not the essentials to a Minister; this by no Logick can cashier Ordina∣tion from an essential cause thereof.

Mr. H. Luke saith, Acts 6. first they chose Steven, ver. 5. then the Apostles laid on hands, ver. 6. if not any but those who are elected by the people should be ordained, and all such who were so chosen could not be refused, then to ordain before choice, is nei∣ther to make application of the Rule, or a communicating of the Right in an orderly manner. But the first is plain, the Apostles would not take that soveraignty in ordaining Elders, therefore they would not allow their Scholars to arrogate to call so, Acts 14. 23. When they had created them Elders in every Church, (the Geneva, When they had ordained Elders by election of the people) and pray∣ed, and fasted, they commended them to God, &c. then the officers had a full call, and a full night to the execution of their office be∣fore laying on of hands, which is not necessary; and must not the setting in order things amiss be done by Titus, i. e. the Officers and the Church also? Tit. 1. 5.

Page  421Ans. 1. Luke saith not they were elect called officers with * a full call and full right, before the Apostles laid on hands: for Mr. R. saith they were chosen, that is, nominated as godly men before the Apostles laid on hands; as David and Saul were both chosen, set apart by God before unction and choice of * the people, but they were not formally chosen Kings, having full royalty, while as yet the people knew them not from other men: but the seven men were not formally and completely cho∣sen as officers, before ordination, and so had neither right, nor official full right to be their Deacons, while the Apostles ordain∣ed them: for this Rite (say Beza, Bullinger, Calvin, Gualther, Diodati, English Divines) used in Sacrifices, was used in crea∣ting * of officers, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, ver. 3. to choose is a far lower word, as Cyprian saith, it noteth Plbis approbationem: Leo, con sensum plebis: Calvin, the approbation of the people. What then is the Apostles and officers part? Authority official there must be, laying on of hands (saith Mr. H.) was not of necessity required: yea, but its safer to believe the holy Ghost, it was done; then it was no unnecessary complement, the cup was given to the people by the Apostles, 1 Cor. 11. True, (say Pa∣pists as Mr. H.) it was not of necessity required. 2. (Though there be a wide difference in the matter) if none should be or∣dained but those onely that are first chosen, (as formally and completely as their fixed 〈◊〉) then election goes before ordina∣tion. Mr. R. denies the connexion, and desires Mr. H. to prove it: yea, the contrary follow; Ergo, the people cannot appro∣priate the man to be their fixed officer, nor consent he be theirs only (and this to me is only formal election) until he first be or∣dained an officer. The sick man cannot choose A. B. to be his Physician, until he first be a Physician, nor can a Scholar choose C. D. to be his Teacher of Philosophy, until C. D. he first a Phi∣losopher.

3. The Assumption is false: But all such who are so chosen*could not be refused; then must the Elders be necessitated to lay hands on Nicolaus, though they know him to be the head of that unclean Sect, of which Epiphnius, Ir•…s, Droth••s, Trtullian judge him to be leader: Why? the people have cho∣sen him, then the Elders must lay on hands suddenly on an here∣tical Page  422 Teacher, a Wolf: Why? they cannot refuse him (saith Mr. H.) for, The people hath chosen him. What tyranny of con∣science is here?

4. This calling of the Deacons, and consequently of all o∣ther officers, if we suppose that the office was instituted (as now it was) by Mr. H. his way, might well have been without either presence or acting of either Apostles or officers (for saith Mr. H. there was no necessity of laying on of hands) by the onely multitude, and I require one Scripture for the calling of one officer without the concurrent acting of Apostles and officers, by the sole people, and can shew warrants for the presence and acting of Apostles and officers in the calling of officers, especially those Acts 1. 15, 23. & 6. 6. & 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5, 6, 7, &c. 1 Tim. 4. 14. & 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2, 3, 10. Revel. 2. 2. ver. 20. Acts 20. 28, 29, 30. & 13. 1, 2, 3, 4.

5. Be it as the Geneva reading saith (as it is not) yet as Mr. *Seaman well observes, and Calvin saith it also with Beza, the officers had their official votes, and are said 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as Stephanus, Mr. Leigh, Theodor. Balsamo, Zonaras and Bellar∣mine grants it; and it proves, that the onely people created not officers, Ergo, by neither this place, nor by any other Scri∣pture, could they give them full right to their office. See Ame∣sius and Calvin. Hence if the officers by these places have suf∣frages and votes in ordaining of officers, as why should the ho∣ly Ghost bid prophets separate Paul and Barnabas for such a ministry, and command Timothy to lay hands suddenly on no man, 1 Tim. 5. 22. but on faithful men, that are able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5, 7, 8. if officers have no official work in creating officers, but only to choose them, which any brother or woman may do? then it is not needless that officers concur to create officers; and if it be not required of necessity that they concur, it must be idle work both here and in the cited places, that they concur, but because they did concur. I have as good reason, that the peoples concurring in choosing was needless, though they did choose, as Mr. H. hath cause to say, the officers concurrence is needless in ordaining, though in truth the Word of God require both as necessary.

Page  423 Lastly, For the setting in order things, since these must be things of jurisdiction also, we say juridical acts by no Scripture are ascribed to the whole Church, except by the Church be understood the Church of Rulers, the rest only consenting: which is our mind.

Mr. H. Arg. 2. That place 1 Tim. 4. 14. favours not Mr. R. for ordination by officers,〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, 1. Notes gracious dispensations accompanying salvation, Heb. 6. 9. or freely given gifts, 1 Cor. 12. 9, 28. 1 Cor. 7. 7.

2. It notes offices, Rom. 12. 6.

3. The grace of free justification, Rom 5. 15. Now its rather meant of grace out habilities which Timothy received by way of prophesie, by which he was fitted to that extraordinary work of an evangelist: the office is not first attended, but the gifts with an eye to the office.

1. Its harsh; forget not the office that is in you: a man is more fitly said to be in the office, an office is adjunctum adhaerens, not qualitas inhaerens.

2. The parallel place is 2 Tim. 1. 6. stir up the gift which is gi∣ven thee by the laying on of my hands: a man is not said to stir up his office.

Ans. There is nothing here to weaken Mr. R. for 1. it * was spare time to leave out more necessary significations of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the gift, and to seem to put upon some a dream of gi∣ving the grace of justification in the blood of Christ, by pro∣phesie, by laying on of the hands of the Presbytery.

2, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, by, is not prefixed to the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery: but 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is prefixed to the laying on of hands: neglect not the gift given thee by prophecy, then he addeth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, with (not 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, by) the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery. So that with Mr. H. his leave, Timothy received no gracious hability by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery, as far as this Text speaks, so that the prophesie was extraordinary, 1 Tim. 1. 18. and the gift might be so also, and the laying on of the ands of Paul, 2 Tim. 1. 6. was of another nature, and there he useth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and this was known to be extraordinary, for the giving of the Holy Ghost, Act. 8. 17. which Magus affected, v. 19. It is true 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is put for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, but rarely, Act. 14. 17. Page  424〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Act. 13. 17, So the laying on of * the hands, may be ordinary, and the gift given by prophesie, as Calvin, Beza, Paren, Piscator, D•…i, Cruciger, the gift declared to be given thee by prophetical revelation, 1 Tim. 1. 18. as Paul and Barnabas were sent to the Gentiles by the com∣mand of the Spirit. So Paul exhorts Timothy neither to neglect the one nor the other, so neglect not, but (s D•…) exer∣cise carefully thy calling of an Evangelist, revive and strengthen the gifts that thou hast received, especially since thou hast received imposition of hands from the Colledge of Elders.

2. It is harsh (saith Mr. H.) Forget not the office in thee. Di∣doclavius told him thus, but what then? A man is said in our * language to be in office; but its both new, and will but poorly prove, therefore it is harsh in the Greek, and it is known there be harsh phrases in both the Septuagints, and in the New Te∣stament, and that neither of them is the most pure of that lan∣guage, and there is a heavenly eloquence in all Scripture.

Mr. H. Whether by Elders be meant, the Elders of many, or of one congregation, I could never learn. Didoc. 160.

Ans. Then this place shall say nothing for the Eldership of an Independent congregation; to which Mr. H. gives after an official power dogmatick, and doctrinal, to hear witnesses and pronounce a sentence of excommunication, which the congre∣gation can no more oppose, then the word of God: and I hombly desire another place for such a new Judicature: for sure men and women both have the judgement of discretion to oppose all errors.

2. There was a Colledge of Elders, Act. 1. & Act. 6 & Act. 13. & Act. 21. At the ordaining of officers, and weighty af∣fairs * of the Churches either must Mr. H. warrant by Scripture, that there is such a like Judicature in every Independent con∣gregation, which (say they) may consist of seven (and that is unpossible) or that he shall be at a low ebbe to prove such an ordination of officers in their Churches as is in the Word.

Page  425 As for imposition of hands; to me it is commanded in the Word, where the right way that it be not done 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, suddenly, is charged upon Timothy, before God and his Son Iesus Christ, 1 Tim. 5. 21, 22. yet not so as it must be so necessary, necessitate medii, as it must be a null, and no ordination where it is wan∣ting.

2. It must be a Rite of designation of the person to the office, but no Sacramental Rite of obsignation of grace, as Papists make it a Sacrament.

3. Mr. H. fails, who makes it no command contrary to 1 Tim. 5. 21, 22.

4. This place 1 Tim. 4. 14. so streights Papists, that Bellarmin* makes the Presbytery a company of Bishops; and so Cor. à Lap. But Cajetan. Vatablus, Maldonat. Estius, are more equitable to the Text then Mr. H. Lyran. makes the Presbytery to be Bi∣shops.

Mr. H. To give the essentials to Timothy an Evangelist by imposition of hands of Presbyters that are inferiour to Evangelists, that are superiour and extraordinary, is beyond the power of Pres∣byters.

Ans. The same is objected by Papists, and by Prelaticals, as Tilenus and others. What? will Mr. H. determine whether Timothy was ordained by the Presbytery an Evangelist (for in that case his argument which he borrowed, hath Nerves) or a Presbyter? for some prelatical, men say, he was twice ordained: nor can his argument stand, except upon the popish pillar; A great Apostle or Bishop cannot be blessed by a lower Presbyter. So that the Presbytery that laid hands on Timothy must be Bi∣shops or only Apostles: so say the Jesuites, Bellarmin, Meno∣chus, Page  426 Cor. à Lap. So Lyranus. See the answer of Didocla∣vius.

2. His own men, say the Brethren, that are lower then Of∣ficers, make, unmake Officers; the people, Act. 1. (say they) have a hand in creating, that is, in chusing Matthias (for that * is their creating) an Apostle. Ananias laid hands on Paul, Acts 9. Prophets, on Paul and Barnabas, to undergo an extra∣ordinary charge to preach to the Gentiles, Act. 13. Mr. H. here as often deviseth a contradiction, that then the same call must be both mediate and ordinary, and immediate and extraordi∣nary, saith he: but if mediate be taken (as it must be) for that in which men have an intervening hand, there is new Logick, but no contradiction. Parker saith, there is of man something, * and much immediately from God here, as the peoples praying, and casting of lots in Matthias his calling, and yet he is an im∣mediately called Apostle. So in Pauls call, Act. 9. in the call of Paul and Barnabas, Act. 13.

2. Its now absurd to say that an Evangelist, an Apostle, is lower then a whole Colledge of Presbyters. See worthy Mr. *Gillespie.

What means Mr. H. to object that as a paradox which Mr. R. saith, A. B. is made a Pastor indefinitly, and the Pastor of such a people only? and here is a new contradiction also, for A B. is made a Physician indefinitely, habitu, actu primo, to all, and by choice, and compact, he is made a Physician fixedly only to such a corporation: so is the Pastor A. B. Here is as poor a shift, the man expoundeth Scripture in his own congregation as a Pastor, but in another, or in his own house, as a gifted man. Let * him answer his own words: ever whom a Pastor hath no power, ver such he can do no pastoral act, for that is an act of principal power: But to administer the Supper of the Lord to these of another congregation is a pastoral act, and that a pastor may do to these of another congregation. So Mr. H. so Mr. Cotton,* so their own Discipline save this contradiction. Its too nea popery to preach, in the chair the Pope cannot erre, as a private Dostor he may erre: So when a man preacheth as a pastor to the congregation, the members can no more oppose him then they can oppose the word of God; and when they hear the same Page  427 man expound the same Scripture in his family, they are no more to submit to his Doctrine, though the same which he spake in the chair, then he is to submit to their Doctrine: for he preach∣eth as no Pastor in his own house, but as a gifted man, saith Mr. H.

Mr. H. Ordination and Election (saith Mr. R.) are all one by the brethrens way. Mr. H. Ans. We never said they were all ones

Ans. True, you never said it, but you say that election gives all the essentials to an officer, and destroy ordination, and make election to be all, and so you make election all one with that which to us is ordination, and that is Mr. R. his mea∣ning.

Mr. H Election rightly ordered by the rule of Christ gives the es∣sentials*to an officer.

Arg. 1. Pastor and people, shepherd and flock are relatives, but relatives are mutual causes one of another; a pastor before a people chuse him, is a husband without a wife. See Amesius.

Ans. 1. Pastor and flock, i. e. a single congregat on (for this only Mr. H. means) are not adequate Relatives, for a Pastor is referred to all members of other congregations to whom he is * a Pastor, and to whom he may tender, as a Pastor, the Lords Supper, 1 Cor. 10. 17. and is granted: Ergo, a pastor is a pa∣stor to multitudes of members of other congregations, who never chose him: so that a man that hath but sipped on Logick, a Mr. H. must thus argue, a pastor chused and made a pastor is relatum, and referred to his own single flock, all and only chusing and making him a pastor: in which there is no sip of truth. He is not a pastor to them only, as is said, for he acts as a pa∣stor.

2. Dogmatickly, sure and what he sayes in the Synod binds not, onely because it is Gospel; but (saith Mr. Cotton) also be∣cause*it is taught by a Minister, for his calling sake: (as Christ, who so receiveth you, receiveth me) the associate Churches, who never made him a pastor.

3. Nor are all his flock, whom yet he feeds with Word, Censures, and Seals, to wit, women members of the flock, and children, and servants, the far larger part of the flock, three Page  428 for one, the chusing correlate: poor souls they are as passive in acts of jurisdiction to make and unmake Pastors as brute sheep; nor can the argument be from feeder and fed simply, sheep as sheep made not their shepherd, but from feeder and the fed chusing, creating and marrying their feeder and husband; and should not Mr. H. say as true, Solomon is a married hus∣band to three hundred women, and yet two hundred fifty of them had no causative influence, gave never consent nor oath to accept him as their husband. So neither can the Pastor be referred to two hundred and fifty women, aged children, and servants, as a part of his flock creating him a husband and fee∣der; for the fifty males did make him a Pastor, and they only.

2. Amesius sayes, the man made a pastor without a flock, is a husband without a wife. And the Prelates did wickedly in so doing, for they were but hirelings going up and down to preach for hire, whereas the work requires a fixed labourer to every corner of the Vineyard: but its non causâ pro causâ, and no sip of Logick, Ergo, every Pastor is so referred to his own flock, as husband and wife, so mutual consent made him a husband to them only, and a Pastor to no other, and them a spouse and wife to him only. But should the Church loose some men from their fixed charges, and send them to visit and water many planted Churches with the word and seals, these men should be lawful and edifying Pastors, not husband without wives. See Amesius, who proves Classis and Synods to be lawful from, 1. The law of Nature. 2. From common Equity. *

But to return to what I had almost passed. If the laying on of hands be no specificating act of an office, because it is used in other performances, as in the sending of Paul and Barnabas to preach to the Gentiles, Act. 13. Then shall water not be essential to Baptism, nor drinking to the Lords Supper, nor blessing Sacramental in that Supper, because in Levitical Wash∣ings, in the feasts Sacred, in the Passeover, in praying for a blessing to the Word preached, all these were used. Its loose Logick, A genere ad speciem, the question is not of laying on of * hands in general, but of a certain kind and species of laying on Page  429 of hands by way of prayer and designation. Mr. R. knows there be divers kinds of laying on of hands.

2. Nor do I say that the Rite is essential to Ordination, but of the necessity of before.

3. Suarez and Stapleton so argue with Mr. H. from an ex∣traordinary command.

1. The spirit speaks from Heaven, Act. 13. Separate me Saul, &c.

2. The Lord names two men.

3. He designs their work: There is here no election of the people, saith Calvin. So Mr. H. Paul was called to be an Apostle be∣fore, Act. 9. and this is for me. Though they were Apostles * before, the Lord will not have us to think imposition of hands a needless toy: but the wise Lord will have their calling by this solemn subscription of the Church, to be sealed, saith Calvin. as by a solemn Symbole of consecration; so saith Gualther, and Mr. H. is mistaken: we use imposition of hands, as both the Bohemian and Wittenberg confession teach; and its not to be found in the Text, that grace was given to Paul and Barna∣bas thereby, but that it was used as an ordinary Rte with pray∣ing, as the Presbytery doth, verse 3. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. See Mr. Seaman. Yea, suppose it be granted that Saul was an Apostle before, Act. 9. Yet 1. he was not such a designed Apostle, to wit, of the Gentiles until now. 2. Nor did the Church their part until now, that they laid their hands on them. 3. The English Divines and Diodati think they were not owned by the Church as Apostles until now. And I humbly doubt if they were called Apostles until now, Act. 13.

Page  430 Mr. H. If a pastor may have all his essentials without a certain flock, then may he be a pastor without it: As the Ring is completed in the Goldsmiths shop, its ready for any buyer.

Ans. Mr. Best and Mr. H. both make the difference, That the Apostle is a pastor to all the world, but the pastor is ••ed to a certain congregation. Then have they answered themselves; The Apostle hath all the essentials of a true pastor without a certain flock: Here is the Ring in the shop ready for all congregations. Now the Apostle and ordinary pastor differ not essentially as pastors in the latitude of preaching to all congregations, and to one single congregation, as the acts of preaching the same Christ, and of baptizing in an Apostle, and in an ordinary pa∣stor, are of the same species and nature. Mr. H. and Mr. Best will have them to be pastors different in nature; why? then but their Gospels and Seals, the formal objects of their calling, must differ in nature, as indeed they make pastors of divers con∣gregations to differ in nature, and so as many congregations different in nature, as many Gospels different in nature. The pastor is tied (saith he) to a certain congregation, out of which he is not to exercise pastoral acts. But is not the Apostle a pastor, and an excellent one to preach and tender the Seals, as well as the pastor? 2. Why saith he not, (as he ought, if he speak suitably to his own principles) It is not lawful for him to exercise pastoral acts without his own congregation, for its adultery so to do? and so its adultery to him to tender the Supper to those of another congregation, contrary to Mr. H. and his Brethren. * Nor can be open and shut the doors of the Kingdom in pastoral preaching to his own flock, and to twenty of other congrega∣tions, except one and the same act of preaching pastorally be a valid pastoral act to his own flock, and twenty times no valid pastoral act, but an act of a gift or Christian counsel which an unbaptized Pagan (so he have a talent and utterance) or a wo∣man in a private chamber may also tender. We may without offence crave a warrant from Scripture for such an unheard Novelty. Yea, it ought to be proved, and not nakedly told us, That this congregation is essential to this A. B. their own pastor; for this or these sick persons are not essential to this Physician.

Page  431 2. Paul preaches the Gospel, administers the Seals an hun∣dred times to an hundred formed visible Churches; do these pastoral acts vary their nature into an hundred new species and natures, because all the hundred Churches are different in spe∣cies and nature? and must there be hundreds thousands of Go∣spel-seals, Keys of the Kingdom, all different in species and na∣ture? for so our Brethren vary Churches.

Mr. H. We allow of no Pastors ordained without a certain flock (saith Mr. R.) I reply (saith Mr. H) Quid verba sudiam, cum videam facta? for if a pastor may have all his essentials with∣out a certain flock, then he may be pastor without a flock.

Ans. Mr. R. allows no individnum vagum, nor a prelatical Deacon made a pastor by the Prelate without any flock, nor knows our Church of Scotland any such. But I have before shewn, there may lawfuly, and to edification be Ambulatory and ••inerary shepherds sent both to feed and gather, or plant Churches.

2. A pastor may have all his essentials without a certain flock belonging to his essence: A man hath his essentials without aptitude to laugh, which follows his essentials; and Snow hath all its essentials without whiteness: yet I say, I neither allow nor can yield that there is a man existent in the world, but he is apt to laugh, nor Snow existent but it is white. But it follows * not hence, that when the Church calls men to the exercise of their pastoral calling, that they may lawflly ordain them all to labour in no certain flock, sure that would hinder edification, but will never prove that this flock is so essential to A. B their pastor, as the wife to the husband; or that A. B. is married to this flock onely, as A. B. is married to this wife onely, and to none other, so as A. B. commits adultery if he celebrate the Lords Supper in another congregation nor his own. Nor will it follow, that it is intrinsecally unlawful for a Synod of New England to send 24 gracious youths understanding in the Lan∣guage, ordain them pastors by laying on of hands of the Elders, and by fasting and praying, instruct them to go and act as pa∣stors among the Savages, preaching and baptizing; and their Page  432 warrant is Act. 13. and here are pastors without certain flocks. If any Act. 13. say, the Spirit gives a special command there, and names Saul and Barnabas, but its not so here: I answer, There is without question something extraordinary, Act. 13. nor are we with Seekers (too much ortified in their way by our Brethrens Doctrine) to wait for the Lords naming from heaven Iohn, Thomas to be preachers in such a place. But to me

  • 1. The nearness to the Savages,
  • 2. The knowledge of their Language (as I suppose)
  • 3. Their weak desire, or the professed not hating of the Go∣spel, were equivalent to a command from heaven, Go preach to the Americans, and that in the capacity as proper pastors.

Mr. H. A Pastor is onely a Pastor of that flock (saith Mr. R.) over which the holy Ghost hath set him, by the authority of his Church; but yet so, as when he preacheth to the other congrega∣tion, he ceaseth not to be Pastor, howbeit not the Pastor of that flock.

Ans. We are then agreed: If a Pastor be [ONELY] onely a Pastor to that flock, then is he not a Pastor so any beside, then can he do no pastoral acts to them.

Ans. Great words are often small and weak Arguments His*last answer (saith he) yields the cause wholly—We are then agreed. Mr. R. is not a whit agreed with either Independency or the present question. If the Pastor be (Onely) onely the Pastor (fix∣ed, proper, actu secundo, in the exercise of calling pastoral) to that flock, then is he not a Pastor (actu primo, habitu, occasio∣nally to act pastorally) to any beside. Its false, and we are di∣stant the whole breadth of a contradiction. If a Physician be onely a fixed Physician to Colchester to attend their sick, by a compact between him and the City, then he ceaseth to be an oc∣casional Physician to any sick in the countrey, when the health of the Inhabitants of that City can permit, so as he can exer∣cise no acts of a Physician to any beside: It follows not at all to be a pastor occasionally to all Churches, and to be a fixed pastor ordinarily and by covenant to this flock, are most con∣sistent.

Mr. H. That which the communion (so Mr. R.) of sister-Churches requires to be done, that pastors lawfully may do (Mr. R.Page  433 ought in conscience to do.) But that a pastor as a pastor may of∣ficiate (to other congregations and their members, (saith M. R.) this the communion of Churches require in the necessary absence of the pastor, to defend the flock from Wolves. The Assumption is denied, and left wholly destitute of proof. Supply may be lent, in such cases, by Christian counsel, and by mutual consociation of ad∣vice, though there be no expression of Iurisdiction, nor can we be said to take away communion of Churches, where God hath granted no right of communion.

Ans. Mr. H. cuts and divides my Arg. for it hath a demon∣stration of the truth of the Assumption. Christ hath establish∣ed the communion of Saints, and of all Saints in specie, and of Churches in Church-praying one for another, Church-praising one for another, Eph. 6. 18. praying always with all prayer〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, for all Saints: but Churches as Churches * are Saints. Mr. H. gives us the name of communion of Saints by advice and counsel, which is the communion of Pagans and Saints; for Saints owe Christian counsel and Christian advice to Pagans and Idolaters. And Mr. H. gives us this goodly Di∣vinity, God never granted any right of communion between Chur∣ches therefore it cannot be taken away. Hence one congregation owes no more Church-communion to another, than to Pagans; contrary to their own express Doctrine: for if the Brethren hold a communion of divers members of divers Churches in partaking of one Lords Supper at the same Table, then must they hold a communion of Churches as Churches. But the former they held, as the words cited clear.

Mr. H. If Ministers (saith Mr. R. in his second Arg.) may labour to convert unbelieving strangers, and to adde them to their flock, that they may enlarge Christs Kingdom, then may they exer∣cise pastoral acts over and above others than those of their own charge. 2. Divers congregations are to keep visible communion of exhorting, rebuking one another.

Ans. Those that were no officers, but dispersed, yet preached the Gospel, Act. 8. Apollos no officer edified those that believed, Acts. Page  434 18. 27, 38. that these may be done where no pastoral acts are, is evi∣dent.

Ans. Mr. H. is pleased to answer my Arg. The proof is added where no need is, that which is feeble, false, that hath no shadow of truth, to wit, the consequence is not at all confirmed, nor any at∣tempt made to that purpose. Its well known a fixed pastor in his * own Pulpit preaching to his own flock, hath in the same act been instrumental to adde to his own flock real converts. Let the Reader judge what truth it hath, that in the same numerical single act of teaching, the man acts both as a pastor, and as no pastor, but as Apollos a private man onely, as Mr. H. saith.

2. Whether it be feeble or no that a pastor tenders the Lords Supper to one of another congregation (which he may lawfully do, say our Brethren *) as a pastor; if he tender it as a private man, I know how feebly Mr. H. and all Anabaptists and Soci∣nians can defend this: Then there is a real truth in this, that a pastor may exercise pastoral acts to others than to those of his own charge.

3. It seems to me feeble, though the instances of the dispersed who preached, Acts 8. and of Apollos, Acts 18. as private Christians, and as no officers, were granted (which to me is false) therefore when a pastor in one and the same Sermon and words, preaching to his own flock, converts one of his own flock and one of another flock, that be acts as an officer, and opens pastorally the gates of the Kingdom of Heaven to the one, and acts as no officer, as not sent of God, but as a pri∣vate man to the other: (except Mr. H. maintain the Socinian sending to preach) I see not how Mr. H. can here expede him∣self.

4. Mr. H. will not say all that were scattered Act. 8. (for *they were all scattered, except the Apostles, ver. 1.) did preach the Gospel, for there were of them women, ver. 3. then some of them onely preached. And if Mr. H. say they were not of∣ficers, Mr. R. says they were officers, and that the extraordina∣riness of their condition, supplied the want of a Church calling, and let Mr. H. but attempt to bring a proof for it.

5. If nothing extraordinary was here, lt Mr. H. or any for him vindicate the place Act. 8. from Anabaptists, who alledge Page  435 the same place Act. 8. to destroy the standing Ordinance of the Ministery: and reade the judicious Tractate of the Ministers of London, of Mr. Collings.

6. I had rather believe Oecumenius and Chrysostome, who judge Apollos to be a Minister; and far rather follow Gualther,*Diodati, and Calvin, who each, that Apollos was a renowned Minister, the Successor and Collegue of Paul at Corinth, 1 Cor. 3. 6. Mr. H. not caring for these Lights, without warrant of Scripture determines Apollos no officer, and so do many Ana∣baptists with him.

7. Nor is there any disease in my third Arg. for take away Church-rebuking, and Church comforting, and pastoral acting of officers toward fellow-Churches, as Mr. H. expresly and in terminis doth, and turn all those into Christian counsels and advices, which Christians out of Church-order, and women owe to those that are no Churches, even to Pagans: And you

1. Take away all communion of Church-talents, and Church-gifts and graces, for the edifying by Word or Writ sister-Churches.

2. You destroy all pastoral and official gifts to sister-Churches in extreme necessity of ravenous Wolves raging among them: for a pastor as a pastor must be able to convince gainsayers, Tit. 1. 9, 10, 11. And suppose the officers of the Church of Sardis were sick and imprisoned, there is taken away all communion of pastoral talents to convince Arrians, Nicolaitans, the Disci∣ples of Ebion and Cerinthus, or to strengthen and heal back∣sliders.

3. The sister members of the mixt congregation, as private Christians in their closets and houses, may pray for their sick sister, but it is unlawful for the Church to put up any Church-prayers or Church-rebukes, let them perish a thousand times: Is not the Lord offended at this wicked selfishness?

But Mr. R. saith, That one congregation hath no power over ano∣ther,*Page  436nor one Classis over another.

Ans. He bids at all, that two parallel members, two parallel Churches as perallel, are coordinate, and have no power juridi∣cal to excommunicate one another, for then one member Iohn may excommunicate Thomas, for ex communication and juridi∣cal Court-power is not exercised by the Church as the Church, for then all and every Church had power juridical of excom∣munication, which Mr. R. will not yield, but it is exercised by such a Church as hath power over its own members subordinate not coordinate: But this is nothing against me; for Church-power is wider than Iuridical power to excommunicate: Church-power* includes Church-preaching, Church-hearing, Church-praising, Church-rebuking, Church-exhorting, Church-com∣forting, Church-tendring of the Seals. But Church-power of excommunicating i but a branch of all these. As also this is a wide mistake in Mr. H. that he thinks, if a pastor have right to administer pastoral acts, there he hath pastoral power to challenge his right, and preach there where there are fixed pastors all * the land over; nay, he must for the actual exercise of his right have some providential call, as is clear Christ saith, Go teach all*nations, baptizing them: that gives to Peter, Iohn, yea all the Apostles, Paul and others, right to be pastors to all the earth: Yet it is clear, that for the actual exercise of that right, there is required a special call of God for the place; as

1. Peter and Iohn could not preach to Samaria, while God disposed so that the Apostles sent them, hearing that they had received the Gospel, Acts 8. 14, 15. Nor Peter preach to the Gentiles,

2. While he was warned by a Vision, Acts 10. 20. & 11. 12. Nor

3. Could Paul and Barnabas go and preach to the Gen∣tiles: Nor

4. Peter and Paul go, the one to preach to the Jews, the other to the Gentiles, while they had a warrant from the Spirit so to do, Acts 13. 1, 2, 3, &c. Gal. 2. 7, 8. Nor

5. Could Paul forbear to go to Bithynia, and go to Mace∣donia to preach the Gospel, Act. 16. 7, 9, 10, 11, 12. without a warrant from God. Upon the same ground, though a pastor Page  437 called by the Church to be a pastor, and be chosen by such a * flock, be by his Ordination made a pastor to all congregations, yet for the actual exercise thereof, he must have a call, or some choice or desire of the people o preach pastorally hic & nunc, and even as the Apostles, who were called by Christ, Mat. 28. 19. to be pastors to all Nations, yet could not hic & nunc, actu secundo, exercise their calling, but by direction of the Spirit, as is said.

And all congregations (saith Mr. H.) may justly deny hi leave to administer either seals or censures among them, and yet he is a complete officer.

Ans. Its a dream to say, a particular Classis or Presbytery hath called him, and yet they refuse him leave to administer seals and censures among them; that is as much, as, They have called him, and they have not called him. We now in a constituted Church, contend not for one who is ordained by the Church a pastor to all Nations, as Mat. 28. without an eye to a certain society, countrey or flock, either as an Ambulatory pastor (as is said, for the care of spreading the Gospel is not dead with the Apostles, as Seekers truth) or as an ordinary fixed pastor, and * their obstinacy to whom he offers the Gospel, hinders him not to be a complete officer, as is clear Mat 10. 13, 14, 15. Luke 〈◊〉. 51, 52, 53. Mat. 2. 3, 4, 5. Act. 13. 44, 45, 46. & 17. 32. & 18. 6. in many who refuse to hear and receive the Apostles, who yet are the complete officers and Ambassadors of Christ. Nor is it true, that whoever hath a pastoral power to preach, they have also a juridical power to censure the refulers to hear. The Bre∣thren will not stand to this by their own way.

Mr. H. The people may put a pastor out of his office, if scan∣dalous*and heretical; Ergo, they give him the office. The Ante∣cedent is proved, Mat 7. 5. Phil. 3. 2. Beware of false teachers, beware of dogs. Mr. R. They may reject him from being their pastor, but their power reaches not so far as to reject him from being no pastor.

Ans. Then a species may be destroyed, and the general nature re∣mains: he is not their pastor, and yet he is a pastor in general; Thomas or John is destroyed, and yet the general nature of Thomas or John remains safe.

Page  438Ans. If Independent Government depend upon no better Logick than this, (as too much like stuff I meet with in review∣ing this Review) I trust it shall not stand. For

1. Christ, Mat. 7. 15. speaks not to a single Independent congregation as such, which he must do, if Mr. H. dispute as a Logician. And the Argument must be thus:

Whos are commanded to beware of false Teachers and dogs, they may authoritatively depose officers. But women are to be∣ware * of false Teachers, and to try the spirits, and to beware of justification by circumcision, Phil. 3. yea, those that are of o∣ther congregations, and single persons, children and servants, and all Christians who are not to judge rashly, Mat. 7. 1, 2, 3, 4. all who are to pray earnestly, ver. 7. all who are to choose the narrow way to heaven, v. 13. and to know Teachers by their works, v. 16. all who are to worship God in the Spirit, rejoyce in God, have no confidence in the flesh, Phil. 3. 2, 3. and thousands beside the male-Church of a single congregation, are to do all these, and women are not to receive false Teachers into their house, 2 Iob. 10. 11. are to beware of false Teachers. Did Mr. H. believe a judicious Reader would, or Mr. H. should pass his judgment of such toyes as these?

2. To be a fixed pastor to this flock, is no species of a pastor, but a meer accident; nor to be a pastor habitu to all the con∣gregations * on earth, a genus to A B. but to be a pastor habitu to all congregations, is and makes A. B. as individual a pastor, as to be a fixed pastor makes him an individual pastor. A Rudi∣mentary in Logick would not say, the same individual pastor could be a genus to himself, as homo is genus (homo is species he ought to say) to Thomas. So when an accident is removed, such as fixedness of the pastoral calling to the congregation of Boston, Mr. Cotton remains a pastor: Else I might say, When Thomas is no more a Physician to sick Iohn, for sick Iohn is dead, Thomas leaves off to be a Physician to any other sick person on * earth: So Thomas is destroyed as Thomas, (whereas a poor accident onely to be a Physician in actual excercise to sick Iohn is onely destroyed) and yet the general nature of Thomas is still Page  439 safe and maintained. The like answer is due to that which he calls a fundamental Rule, sublato uno relatorum tollitur alterum. A man would say Logick and Reason were turned upside down. Thomas is no actual Physician to Iohn now dead, and that re∣lation between Thomas and the dead man is gone: Ergo, Tho∣mas himself, as a man, and his other relations to all other sick persons who call for his medicinal labours perish. Reason and Logick should perish in the man who should so argue.

Mr. H. If a person or Presbytery have Ministerial power, they*must execute it in their own persons and places, they cannot dele∣gate any supernatural power, or saving quality, or habit to ano∣ther—the mystery of iniquity in some measure hath eaten into the Presbytery. They have taken power to ordain before election, and make indefinite Pastors, and have taken all power from the people.

Ans. 1. The issue is, the male-Church only hath this pow∣er, to make and unmake officers: and they have of late, being not the fourth part of that which they call the onely visible Church of Redeemed Ones, taken all power of Censures, so * that the rest have no consent, which is a popish domineering over their faith; whereas we hold, the Church not consenting, Censures are not to be drawn out at all: here is more popery and bratish domineering over the consciences of the officers in point of Heresie, to speak nothing of divers points of Popery, Anabaptisme, Socinianisme that goeth along with this way.

2. That the Churches cannot delegate a power to Paul and Barnabas their messengers, to determine in a Synod according to the Word, can be denied by none, but such as deny Synods, contrary to Act. 15.

3. Nor knoweth the Scripture any rule from civil Corpora∣tions, who both make and chuse David and Saul Rulers and Kings, to infer that the male-Church cannot preach nor admi∣nister seals, but they both create and chuse Spiritual Officers. We may long call for Scripture to prove this, but in vain, it is a Tradition that we must believe, because so say our Bre∣thren.

Nor is it Episcopacy for Timothy and Titus to ordain Mini∣sters in a joynt society (in collegie) (Episcopal Monarchy in Pope Page  440 and Prelates.) Nor is it to ordain Pastors indefinitely, when it is done both with consent of the flock, and in reference to a certain flock. Its true, 1 Tim. 5. 22. Tit. 1. 5. there is no men∣tion made of a Presbytery, nor is there mention there of a congregation: but Timothy cannot preach in season, and out of season 2 Tim. 4 1, 2. nor can he rebuke before all these that sin publickly, but in the congregation, 1 Tim. 5. 20. So neither can Timothy his alone prove the Deacons, 1 Tim. 3. 10. for the Apostles, Acts 6. did it not, nor would he 〈◊〉 a prelatical Mo∣narch, his alone lay on hands, and call to the Ministry, 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. for the Scripture saith a Colledge did it, 〈◊〉 13. 1, 2, 3. 1 Tim. 4. 14. and Papists have the same ground (but it is groundless) that the Keyes were given to Peter only, Mat. 16. and there is no word of a Presbytery: and Christ saith, Iohn 21. thrice to Piter only, Lovest thou me? feed my sheep. And there is no word of a Colledge of Apostles: but our Di∣vines with Ierm, Cyprian, and the Fathers, say, equal power of * feeding, and power of the Keyes was given to them all at a Synod, Mat. 28. 19, 20. Ioh. 20. 21, 22, 23. Acts〈◊〉. 8. and the same objection Prelates moe.

Nor shall we be against Iunius, Melanctho, Whitaker, Da∣naeus. The jus and right of ordination is in the Church, as in the virtual subject, to wit, in Elders and people. (But our Bre∣thren must have a sole male-Church of Brethren.) But we may well say, the calling in concreto, is that which these Divines mean so Melancthon saith, the calling contains jus ligendi, vocandi, ordinandi. Other Divines speak more accurately, as the learned Professors of Leyden, who beyond all doubt follow Cyprian.

Mr. H. These, in whose power it is whether any shall rule over*them, or no; from their voluntary subjection it is, that the party Page  441 chosen hath right, and stands in possession of rule and authority over them. It holds not which Mr. R. saith. Now ordination is an act of jurisdiction, such as to send an Embassador, but that an Embas∣sador consent to go (such as is election) is no act of jurisdiction, for a Father to give his Daughter in marriage to one, is an autho∣ritative act of a Father: but for the Daughter to consent to the choice is no act of authority.

Ans. True, consenting gives n power, but the peoples giving of the pastor authority ever them, their calling, and by willing sub∣jection, delivering up themselves to be ruled by him in Christ i an act of power. That is false whith Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say, If the people could virtually give being to Pastor and Teacher, then they might execute the office of Pastors and Teachers: for Al∣dermen chse the Mayor Souldiers the General, yet nonè of them can execute the office of Mayor and General.

Ans. 1. The proposition is printed in other Characters, and hath nothing found in it, nothing of Scripture or reason to prove it, and is a needy begging of the question.

Those in whose power it is whether any shall rule over them or no, &c. Mr. H. seeing himself widely out, durst not assume. But it is in the peoples power, whether any rule over them or no, &c. This the assumption must be, or the argument is non-sense: Its not in the peoples power, whether any rule over them or no. More wild Divinity is scarue heard of, it must then be in mens power, whether there be Rulers, Apostles, Pastors, Tea∣chers in the Church; and Government, or none at all but Aar∣chy and confusion: but a Divine institution was never in the power of people; but Christ Jesus 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, gave, instituted, and ordained Apostles, Pastors, and Officers in his house, Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28.

2. The proposition is false and never proved; That their voluntary subjection, whose it is to chuse officers, gives formally and causaivly right of ruling to the chosen. I thus resort it, to shew the falshood of it; Then the sick man, in whose power it is to chuse Thomas to be his Physician, and no other man, he gave causatively right and being to Thomas to be a Physi∣cian.

Then 2. he in whose power it is to chuse Iohn and no other, Page  442 to build him a house: he in whose power it is to chuse Richard to be a School master to teach his Son, and no other School-master, * he gave causatively right and being to the party Iohn, so chosen to be a Mason, and to the party so chosen, Richard, causatively right and being to be a School-master. Nothing more false, Iohn was a Mason, Richard a School-master before their chusers were born. Nothing follows, but the sick mans choice made Thomas a Physician, not simply, but to him only: and so must we say of the other two, and multitudes of other examples. And o nothing follows from Mr. H. his argument, but only this flocks choice gave him causatively right and being, not simply to be a Pastor (ordination of the Elders, Act. 6. 6. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22, &c. did that) but to be this flocks fixed Pastor: for we must distinguish betwixt a Pastor and this peoples Pastor, a Pastor actu primo, and a fixed Pastor in the second acts and exercise of his calling, hic & nunc, to this people, as touching their formales rationes, if our Brethren will give us leave, if not, we value not; Scripture and good Logick are for us.

3. Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say not in several places, yes, no where, that the people may preach and baptize, if they give causatively being to Pastor and Teacher: but the people may then do and perform as high acts official and juridical. To the impertinent instance of Aldermen and Major, I have an∣swered.

4. It is but nsis and gladius that is in the reply; for the peo∣ples delivering up themselves by voluntary subjection to be ruled by him, gives him no more being and right to be a Pastor, but only right to be their Pastor (which is accidental to their cal∣ling) then the sick mans voluntary subjection of, and deliver∣ing up of his body and health under the Lord and Creator of life, to Thomas a skilled Physician, to follow all his medicinal injunctions, gives causatively being to Thomas to be Physician, whereas he was a Physician many years before.

Mr. H. Ordination is not an act of supreme Iurisdiction, but*Page  443of order rather. It gives not being nor constitution to an officer, but is rather the admission and confirmation of him in his office.

Ans. That is said, not proved; if it be an act of order, and commanded of God, a where the regulating of a thing, that it be not done 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, rashly, is commanded, there the thing it self is commanded, 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Then your ordina∣tihn by the sole male Church void of all officers, and calling of * officers without officers (a thing without example in the Scri∣pture, except where God calls immediatly) wants an act of order commanded of God, and that in an ordinary way; for your way is, in ordinary the Church is before the officers and gives being to the officers.

2. If ordination be but an approbation of the officers, who have already being, and not necessary that ordination should be where there is election of people, then it shall be strange, that there were officers at all; the calling of officers we read of in the New Testament (who yet need not be there, but are ex superabundanti, present) as Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 13. 1, 2, 3. Act. 14. 23. 1 Tim. 4. 14 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim. 3. 10, &c. and no where is there vola vel vestigium, of a com∣mand or promise to the Church destitute of officers, to call and give being to officers, nor any practice of the Apostles for it. And I am so far from owning such a Logick as Mr. H. puts upon me, The Church have not received power of excommunica∣ting all their officers; Ergo, they have not received that power, a neither thing, nor words, are in my mind, or book. But I * provoke all the Brethren for a warrant, or shadow of a warrant, by precept, by promise, by practice in Scripture for a Church void of officers, that hath power to call and give being to offi∣cers, or admit in, or cast out members, or perform any Church worship.

3. Let it be considered, if Christ have given any jurisdiction at all, it must be in calling and in giving being to the officers of Christs visible Kingdom: but the specifick acts of giving being to the officers are to set men over the work, Act. 6. 3. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to separate and set apart for the calling, Act. 13. 2. to prove 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, before they be put in the Ministry, whether they have the requisite qualifications or not, 1 Tim. 3. Page  444 10. to lay hands on men for the office cautelously, 1 Tim. 5. 2. to commit the charge to faithful men, able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. are ascribed to Elders, to Prophets, to * Pastors. Shew me the like ascribed to your Church wanting officers. Mr. R. his comparisons of an Embassador, &c. must stand then till you answer these often proposed Arguments.

It is weak, that Mr. H. that the Elders of Ephesus was con∣gregational. * Mr. H. answers not my Arguments on the con∣trary, nor toucheth them.

2. Its most weak to say. Dath Paul exhort the Elders, when they are assembled in the Classis to watch against ravning Wolves, or did they not this in their special charges? As if a Judicature of civil Watchmen, a Colledge of Physicians were not both a∣lone, and in their respective Assemblies to watch over the City and the sick.

Mr. H. When Churches were complted with all officers, that*then ordination was acted by a Colledge of Pastors, there is nothing in the Text saith any such thing.

Ans. The homogeneal Church yet wanting officers (saith Mr. H.) is complete to create and call its officers, and a Inde∣pendent in an Island without officers, and hath that power, * and no word of precept, or promise, or any such practice for such a Church creating their officers. Paul should have bid them use their power of ordaining, as the twelve Apostles, Act. 6. hids them use their power of chusing. And Paul should not have charged Timothy to usurp ordaining of offi∣cers, where there was a Church in an orderly way, being the first formal subject of the Keyes to do it. And Mr. R. gives instances, where the Elders are commanded to ordain, and lay on hands, and sayes this command or practice is not to be found in the Word, in the hands of the people.

My fourth Argument stands, because every twelve in a fami∣ly, * is an homogeneous Church. True (saith Mr. H.) but they watch one over another by family rules.

Ans. That is a begging of the question; for a family com∣bination hath all the essentials of a Church combination, if the Church be taken for an homogeneal association, and wanteth only the name: for they cannot watch over one another, as tou∣ching Page  445 seals, and no more can any homogeneous Church of divers families so watch over one another.


Whether Covenant-right to Baptisme be derived from the nearest Parents only, or from the remoter, the Grand-Fathers.

MR. H. It belongs not to any •…d ••ssors, either nearer or*further off removed, it is from the next Parents,〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and firstly to give Covenant right of Baptisme to their Child 〈◊〉 when I say Pred•••ssors near e•…r further off, I include and com∣prohend all, beside the next parent—Now covenant right agrees*not to all other fo them, nor can the P•…〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 out the next parent (in Church covenant) who is the adequate••s of deriving these priviledges

Ans. 1. When Mr. H. saith, it belongeth not to remote Pa∣rents〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and fistly to convey Covenant right to the chil∣dren, he would make the Reader believe that remote Parents have some causative influence, but not primary, as the first sub∣ject. But the truth is, if the nearest parent be the adequate cause of conveyance (as e saith) then shall he not leave any in∣fluence at all to remote parents.

2. It is not the nearest parent as visibly in the covenant of * grace, but as visibly in Church-covenant Independent wise, by Page  446 Mr. H. his Doctrine: for (saith Mr. H. ibid.) the next parents can give the priviledge and title to Baptism, without any help of the pred•••sso.

Hence 1. more weight is laid upon the Church-covenant * than upon the Covenant of Grace; and the Traditions of men are heightned above the Gospel and command of God. For suppose that Iudas, Magus, Iezabel, who are under the Church-covenant, be never discovered, nor judicially cast out, they con∣vey covenant-right to Baptism. But

1. These of approved godliness and visible Saints, who can∣not in conscience submit to their Church-covenant, are secluded from the Seals, and their seed from Baptism, as the places in the margin clear, and Magus and Iezabel their children are ad∣mitted to Baptism for the new Church-covenant, and others, famously known to be godly to the Brethren of the congregational way, and who bring sufficient testimonial with them, (as their own words are) though the testimonial be from private Chri∣stians; yet because the testimonial is not from a Church, a Church known to them to be under a Church-covenant either implicitly or explicitly, are not admitted to Church-ordinances, and so neither their seed to Baptism.

2. Godly so journers known to be such, and visible members broken off from Church-membership through no sin or scandal * in them, but either through violence of persecution, or some stroke of judgement, as Pestilence, that hath scattered them, and removed the Elders by death, can have no Baptism to their children, though they be visibly in the Covenant of Grace, yet the seed of Magus and Iezabel, upon the sole account of the Church-covenant; so that opus operaum, the deed done, the want of the formality of their membership, without the con∣tempt, reigns here as in Popery.

3. Then by this they cannot have a wedding-garment to mens discerning, who are not inchurched their way.

4. They are not in the Covenant of Grace, nor the visibly called of God. Nor

5. Members visible of Christs Body, but as Pagans and Pub∣licans, who are not thus inchurched in the nearest parent, and their seed unclean and Pagan-seed.

Page  447 6. Then the seals were never administred according to the Rule of the Gospel until the Independent Churches arose.

7. Nor can Egypt, Assyria, the Kingdoms of the world, be the Kingdoms of of the Lord, and of his Son Christ, as Isa. 19. 25. & 2. 1, 3. Rev. 11. 15. except onely in the nearest father and mother inchurched by the Church-covenant; The ••ed of the Gentiles and their offspring blessed of the Lord, Isa. 61. 9. their seed and their seeds seed. Isa. 59. 21. the enduring seed of Christ, Psa. 89 29, 36. Isa. 53. 10. Gen. 13. 15. Isa. 45, 25, by our Brethrens way are but onely the nearest sons and daughters * of the onely nearest father and mother in Church covenant. So Christ is not Davids seed, for David was not (I judge) his near∣est father according to the flesh. When it is said, the seed of the godly is blessed, Psal. 37. 26. his seed is mighty on earth, Ps••. 12. 2. it must be onely his nearest sons and daughters, not the thousand generations, Exod. 20. And when it is said, Praise him all ye seed of Iacob, Psal. 22. v. 23. none are then invited to praise God, but the nearest sons and daughters of the nearest parents: for our Brethren (from whence is the marrow of Mr. H. his Book) tell us, the 1 Corinth. 7. 14. seems to limit the foederal sanctity or holiness to the children, whose next parents, one or both, were belie∣vers—for if we go one degree beyond the next parents—we might baptize the children of all the Turks, and of all the Indians: and if so, all the huge multitude of sons and daughters coming in to the Church, that make an eternal excellency, Isa. 60 4 15. and the joy of many generations, who shall inherit the land for ever, v. 21. to whom the Lord shall be an everlasting light, v. 19. shall be the children onely, whose next parents, one or both, are believers. But we think the second Command, Exod. 20. takes the Brethren off that Scripture.

8. And such ups and downs, and leaping like Locusts and Frogs from earth to water, and from water to earth, hath not been heard: for how often are Independent members in the Covenant of Grace, and Christians, and out of it again as Pagans, and their seed Pagans, and their seeds seed Pagans? If all the fastning of an everlasting covenant to a Kingdom, be onely nearest parents, and if they break the Charters of Hea∣ven, all Covenant-mercies are cancelled to the seed, and the seeds seed.

Page  448 9. If we speak with Scripture, the adequate cause of cove∣nant * love to fathers and sons, is the free grace of God, Deut. 7. 7, 8. & 10. 15 2 Sam. 7. 23. 24. Luke 1. 50, 68, 69. Eph. 2. 4. the conveying subordinate cause, is sometime a family, as Abra∣ham, not as a physical parent onely, to convey the covenant∣right onely in the direct blood threed or blood-line from parent to childe, but as both Physical and Moral, or Oeconomick pa∣rent; for Abraham getteth the covenant-charter given to him, and not onely to his blood-seed, but to strangers and servants born under him, to the sons of his servants, Gen. 17. 7. 12. Its given to Cornelius and his house, Act. 10. 48. & 16. 33. some∣times to Samaria a great city, Act. 8. to Macedonia, to a great kingdom: Exod. 3. I am the God of thy fathers, the God of A∣braham. Now Abraham was not their next parent: Deut. 10. 11. He gives the land promised to the fathers. Luke 1. 72. He saved us, to perform the mercy promised to our fathers; v. 73. to remember his holy covenant; v. 74. The oath which he sware to our father Abraham. Acts 2. The promise (v. 39.) is to you, and to your children: What? onely to your nearest children? yea & to all that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 2 Cor. 6 16. I will be their God, and they shall be my people;* according to that, I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed, Gen. 17. 7. Either must this fail in the New Testament, or we have no more right to the promises made to Abraham, then the children of Pagans have; for if their nearest parent believe. they have covenant right, but that is but a yesterdays charter: yea, though the children do worse, and corrupt themselves more than their fathers, Judg. 2. 19, 20. Deut. 29. 25. Ezek. 2. 3. yet if they repent, Lev. 26. 42. then I will (saith God) remember my covenant with Iacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember, and I will re∣member the land—I will not cast them away, &c. Nor is this a Tempore••rcy onely, 〈◊〉Ezek. 38. 24, 25. 1 Kings 11. 32. & 8 19. 〈◊〉 Kings 19. 34. & 20. 〈◊〉. Psal. 132. 10 Isa. 37 35. Now if the Parent nearest be the adequate cause, the mercy is not conveyed by David, ofor Davids sake, as the Scripture saith, more than to the wildest Pagan. And that 1 or. 7 14. must be meant of the farther off children, as Rom. 11. 16. If the Page  449 root be holy, so are the branches; he means the branches to be graffed in again, v. 23. the branches beloved for the fathers sake, v. 28. far off branches, not yet ingraffed again, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, v. 25, 26.

Mr. H. In the place Exod. 0. the Lord ies not himself to a law, but walks in breadth, as best be••om his Wisdom; so e ex∣imes some from the threatning, and withhelds the expression of his love from others.

Ans. The expressions of the Lords love and mercy, is one thing, (the Lord useth the latitude of soveraignty here) and the ex∣tending of covenant-mercy to the thousand generations, is a far other thing.

2. When Mr. H. saith, that the Lord withholds the expressions of his love from others in the thousands mentioned, if he mean the expressions of his covenant-love, (as he must, what is this from contradicting the words of the Text? Calvin (whom Mr. H.* misciteth) saith, its meant of covenant-mercy to be propagated to the thousand generations, according to that, I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed. Now neither Scripture nor Calvin ever meant by seed, the nearest seed of the nearest parent onely: Quod D•… gratia (inquit Calvin) in fam•… porum aeterna resi∣deat. Perkins is as clear in this. I wonder that Mr. H. was not afraid to cite these worthy servants of God, for an opinion so repugnant diametrally to the letter of the Scripture: and

10. To the longanimity and patience of God. For an earthly Prince making a covenant of grace with a man and his family, were it grace and gracious dealing to cut off all his posterity for the fault of onely the nearest parents, so as all the rest of the blood-line should be to him as damned Traitors and Re∣bels? And

11. It close everts the liberty of God in his free election of grace; for doth not Scripture and Experience teach, that the Lord never sent his Gospel to a Nation, but he had there among them his chosen ones, both of the seed of the Elect and Re∣probate, Acts 18. 9, 10. and therefore the Nation called of God Page  450 by the Gospel, is also the chosen of God, and the loved of God, according to the most precious part: So the Scripture, Deut. 7. 7, 8. & 10. 15. Eph. 1. 1, 2, 3. 1 Cor. 1. 26, 27. Psal. 132. 13, 14. 15. & 147. 19, 20. Now if he should e••t off men from the covenant for the real defection of the onely nearest parent, he must remove the Gospel for the same defection, and conclude himself that he should not choose to life the children of some Reprobates, contrary to Scripture: and its as great a wonder to me, that Mr. H. should claim to Zanchius for this opinion, * for he expresly refutes it.

Mr. H. They who imitate the sins of parents may expect plagues, they that follow the obedience of faithful parents may ex∣pect mercies.

Ans. Its impertinent; for such as follow the sins of parents are none of the thousand generations of them that love God, not the latter, of them that hate God.

2. Though both these be true, Mr. H. must prove that mer∣cies promised Exod. 20. are covenant-mercies derived from the nearest parents onely, else he saith nothing for his owne cause.

Mr. H. The mercies here promised are not all the particular blessings and priviledges that the parents were possessed of. Israel wanted circumcision fourty years in the wilderness, and in the time of the Iudges, and in the 70 years captivity they wanted sundry priviledges they enjoyed under David and Solomon; the mercy here must be grace and glory.

Ans. 1. This is for me: But when Mr. H. would have In∣fants of nearest parents excommunicated, to be excluded both from Baptism and Covenant-mercy, and have them in the case Page  451 wholly with the Infants of Pagans, they must be excluded from grace and glory; else Mr. H. must shew, with Anabaptists, some way of Salvation of Infants who are without the covenant, and so have no share in that onely precious Name by which men are saved.

2. I hope Mr. H. will not say, Israel wanted circumcision in the Wilderness for the sins of their nearest parents onely; there was a physical impediment; the Lord, who loves mercy better than sacrifice, would not have Infants wounded in that eari∣some journey: Nor was it for their nearest parents Idolatry onely, but because they and their fathers from Egypt until that day, Ezek. 2. 3. rebelled, they were deprived of this other pri∣viledge.

3. Mr. H. must prove, that the people in the Wilderness, in * the time of the Judges, a stiff-necked generation, who did worse than their fathers, despised, mocked and killed the Prophets, were all of them visible converts, a generation of lovers of God, and such as kept his commandments.

Mr. H. This being the meaning, as Calvin, Zanchius, Junius, Perkins, what inference can be made for the conveyance of the right of Baptism from remote parents to children, I know not; for how doth this agree to children to love the Lord, and keep his com∣mandments, who are not yet capable, being not come to years to put forth such acts?

Ans. I shall not invite Anabaptists to triumph in pulling this * Argument for Infant-baptism from our Divines; for if the words must be expounded of actual love to God, and actual obedience in Infants; so that, if Infants be not capable of actual love and obedience to God, the covenant-mercy must be bro∣ken off in all Infants who die before they can come to years to actually to love the Lord, and keep his commandments; And if the flux of covenant-mercy be suspended, while Infants come to be capable to actually love God and obey him; where then shall be covenant right in the males of the Jews to be circumcised, and in the Infants born of covenanted parents under the New Testament to be baptized? For the Argument, if any be, must be thus:

To such as cannot actually love God and keep his command∣ments Page  452 for want of age, there be no covenant-right to Baptism * conveyed. But this want of age and capacity to love God and actually obey him, is in all Infants in Old or New Testament; except Mr. H. mean, that nearest parents can supply the want of capacity, and infuse actual understanding to Infants, that they may actually love God, and keep his commandments, which remote parents cannot do, which is a mystery I am yet to learn. But to the Reader it is clear, that Infants have no right to Baptism until they come to years to actually love God; Ergo, they should not be baptized until they be converted. But again, no Anaba∣ptist teacheth, that any are to be baptized by covenant-right from parents near or remote, except they personally believe and profess actually: and the very like Mr. H. saith.

Mr. H. Where shall we stand if a thousand generations have interest in Baptism? Then the children of Turks cannot be ex∣cluded, for some of them are found between us and Adam.

Ans. Is not this to cavil at the Lords words, not at us? so they set this Conjecture down as a part of their Discipline; Its not above 66 generations from Noah to Christ,—and if Gods mer∣cy to a thousand generations may fetch in the children of excom∣municated*persons, the same promise may fetch in all Turks and Infidels at this day. But I pray you are Turks such as love God and keep his commandments? are not Turks avowed enemies to Christ and the Gospel-covenant? and so for many generations have deserted the covenant and visible Church, so that they are no visible Church, the Lord having removed the Candlestick: Can this be said of children born in the visible Church, either of the Jews or of Christians professors, because their nearest parents are extreme wicked or excommunicated, since they are yet born in the visible Church where the Candlestick is? shall the children be cut off from circumcision, since the Lord for Abraham, for Davids sake, for the holy Roots sake (not the nearest, who were most unholy, and cast out, Rom. 11. 7.) gives circumcision and Church-room to the branches, Rom. 11. 16? And if the child of nearest parents excommunicated be born in*a believers house, or resigned to a believer, to be brought up as his own, he is to be baptized, say our Brethren; but the being so born, hinders not the childs cutting off from the covenant. Page  453 Where then is his covenant-right to baptism? Its either from his remote parents, which we say; I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed: or from his nearest excommunicate parents. This latter Mr. H. denies: or from the Beleever, in whose house he was born. If so, we shall not contend, then the covenant∣right is not broken and removed, because the nearest parents are excommunicate. Some parental covenant-right is conveyed to this Infant, which is not conveyable to the Infant of a Turk.

2. Mr. H. hath the words of the second Command for his party: for, i the nearest parents excommunication deprive the children of all covenant-mercy and right to the seals, the words should be false, and the Lord should be less in shewing mercy, in extending it to one generation only, to the nearest children only, for their nearest parents loving of God, and keeping of his Commandments, and more abundant in severity of justice, in visiting the sins of the Fathers upon the Children, unto the third*and fourth Generation of them that hate him. But this turns the promise and the threatning of the Command upside down, for mercy is so extended to Fathers nearest & nearest Children, and punishing justice to four, and the command extends mercy unto thousands, & justice to only four Generations. Now two Gene∣rations, as they are fewer then four, so are they far more fewer then a thousand Generations: as also, if mercy extended to a thousand Generations, only be upon condition, they imitate their godly parents (saith Mr. H.) by loving (actually) and obey∣ing (actually) his Commandments, especially that of the truth of his worship, then is mercy not extended to the nearest one ge∣neration of Infants; for it is certain the nearest one generati∣on of Infants cannot be yet capable (saith Mr. H. with the same * breath) being not come to years to put forth such acts of actual love and obedience in worshipping the true God, as he hath commanded in his word: and if mercy be not extended to one generation, nor Covenant-seals to Ishmael, for Abrahams, nor to Esau for Isaacs sake, contrary to all Scripture: the Lord shews not mercy to thousands of generations, because not to one generation. And so again, the promise of mercy is de∣stroyed, for the condition of actual love, and of actual obedi∣ence Page  454 is physically impossible to all sorts of Infants, both of Parents loving or hating God.

And 3. the sweet and merciful proportion is destroyed, for God punisheth Infants Children of Achab, of the Amlakites, of Ieroboam in the cradle, though these Infants be as uncapable to bow the knee to Idol gods, or to imitate the Idolatry and actual abominations of their Fathers, as the Infants of godly parents are to imitate the actual love and obedience of their pa∣rents: and yet the Scripture and experience teach, that justice proceedeth to four generations against the one: And Mr. H. denies that mercy goes along to the thousand generations with the other, because poor Infants on the breast cannot bow their knee and pray in faith to God, and do the like acts of true worship, as their godly parents do: and yet Mr. H. fathers his meaning upon Calvin, Zanchius, Iunius, Perkins.

Mr. H. The next parents being excommunicate, cannot give to the child the right which they have not themselves.*

Ans. I grant, because they are not the sole and adequate cause of conveying covenant-right to the children. But where then (saith Mr. H.) shall we stand, how shall it be conveyed to re∣mote parents? The answer is easie, so long as the nearest chil∣dren * of excommunicate parents are born in the visible house, where the King yet dwells, and the golden candlestick is not removed, the children are heirs to the remote parents, the children are followed with covenant-mercy, passing by the nearest parents: (saith the Lord) for my servant Davids sake, 1 King. 11. 32, 34, 36. he would not destroy Iudah for his servant Davids sake, 2 King. 8. 19, 2 King. 19. 34. 2 King, 20 6. for the promise is not laid down in the hand of the nearest parents on∣ly, but in their hands with whom first God signally covenants, as with Abraham, David, with the three thousand baptized, Act. 2. 39. and their children, and all that are afar off, and as many as the Lord shall call with the seed, with Samaria and theirs, Act. 8. so long as a calling Gospel is there: This shall not fetch in the Turks. How will Mr H. with so short a good night of Christ break off the longanimity of God to the seed for their nearest parents, if they break a new congregational covenant? Yea, if by persecution, and through no sin of the nearest parents, Page  455 they be broken out of congregation-state, presently the Can∣dlestick is removed from the seed, and a bill of Divorce sent to the whole race, and they banished out of the house, and decla∣red Pagans. O Scriptureless cruelty, to make God to break the covenant first, the parents continuing in covenant-obedi∣ence and suffering for Christ!

Mr. H. Men of approved piety in covenant with God visibly, are to be admitted to the seals (saith Mr. R.) but (saith Mr. H.) gracious men be pertinacious.

Ans. Pertinacy in a scandal marrs approved piety; but be∣cause they approve not your way, are they therefore pertina∣cious?

Mr. H. To be a member of the visible Church in general, and*have no particular existence of membership in any particular con∣gregation, is a fansie, as to say there is a part of manhood not existing in John, Thomas, or any Individuals.

Ans. Mr. H. fansies there is a promise of continuing on the Rock made to the congregation in general, and yet this or that congregation falls off the Rock.

2. Mr. R. his Church-general is no abstract generick nature, but an individual integral Catholick body, existing in all the earth; and one is baptized a member to all congregations jure, and exists and dwells in one only: as a man may have right to all City-priviledges, and yet may reside, and actually enjoy only the City priviledge of London. Mr. H. imagines that our Catholick integral Church is genus, and the Congregation species: and if so, the Church of Boston should be the whole integral Catholick Church, and the little finger the whole body of Iohn.

Page  456


A new device of Mr. H. his two sentences, the official and dogmatical sentence of officers, yet not concional, nor juridical, and another juridical of the male-Church, is examined.

MR. H. It is the office of Rulers dogmatically to discover the mind of God, and the mind of Christ, in convincing by wit∣nesses*the offenders, and preparing the cause. And the brethren have no more power to oppose the sentence of the Censure thus prepared, and propounded by the Elders, then they have to oppose their Do∣ctrine, for the Elders may preach it as the word of God, by vertue of their office.

Ans. 1. Scripture tells us nothing of two sentences.

2. Two Judicatures which lead witnesses. *

3. Two sorts of binding Judges. This then is will-wor∣ship.

2. No Scripture tells us of leading of witnesses to convince Delinquents concionally, by way of preaching, Old or New Testament, not Mr. H. must here speak, Rev. 2. 2, 14, 20. Acts 15. Matth. 18. 1. 1 Cor. 5 1, 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. and elsewhere we read of but one juridical censure by the whole Court, and of one sentence: If he ha not the Church, &c. they are not Apostles but lyers, Rev. 2. 2. Iezabel should not be suffered to teach. Who can dream that these w•… first concluded dogmatically, or ought to have been so c•…ded by the officers in one Court, and then were concluded juridically by the male Church?

3. These words, T••l the Church, whether must they be then, t•…ll the Officers, that they may dogmatically determine, or tell the male-Church that they may juridically determine? and yet, one of these bear the name of the Church, by our Bre∣threns way.

Page  457 Or 3. Tell the Church of Redeemed ones, which is their only Church. The first is our Church of Rulers, which they cannot endure: the other two cannot subsist.

4. Who gave ruling Elders a joynt power to preach juridical sentences, which must binde the unofficed brethren as the prea∣ched Word of God, for they have no calling to labour in the word and doctrine, 1 Tim. 5. 17? and how can they preach, except they be sent, Rom. 10. 14, 15?

5. How can rude and unlettered men, who labour not in the word and doctrine, by vertue of their office dogmatically resolve deep points of Heresie, more than unofficed brethren, and pre∣determine their conscience? should the ruling Elders lips that way preserve knowledge? and should they as the Messengers of the Lord of Hosts, with the pastors, carry the Word of God so binding others? What they do in Synods is a far other thing, for there they act juridically rather than dogmatically, and joyntly with Pastors and Doctors.

6. This sentence must lay bands upon the consciences of the male Church, so that there is nothing left to them but to obey; and can obeying and submitting to the Word leave any room to judging in an authoritative way? sure, by this they must ei∣ther hear and believe after a popular judging, or then reject, and so must women and children of age; and what place then is left to juridical sentencing by the Elders or Brethren? yea, so the Churches freedom of judging is none at all, when the Church may no more oppose that dogmatick sentence, than they may oppose the Word of God in the mouth of their offi∣cers? and what greater power can be given to any, then what is given to this Independent Eldership?

7. When there is a contradiction between the two sentences, which of the Judicatures must be supreme? If the dogmatick be supreme, they may dogmatickly determine, that the frater∣nity ought to be excommunicated for opposing the Word of God in their sentence; and who can excommunicate an Inde∣pendent Church? And again, when the Elders themselves turn Wolves, who then can give out an official and dogmatick sentence against them? that must be wanting: and hath not the like of this brought forth among Brownists reciprocal excom∣munications?

Page  458


Of Synods and their Power.

MR. H. Synods are necessary for union in the Churches: In the multitude of Counsellors there is safety, Acts 15. Prov. 16.

Ans. Union in truth and peace among Churches, say these Churches, must make one visible Body; then ruptures, rent∣ings, * scandals, must say there is in this body visible, a necessity of Government and Jurisdiction must be incident to that visi∣ble body, which they deny: for this union must be a professed union, to speak and think the same thing, Phil. 2 2. c. 4. and this is visible union; and so they must meet, not in their mem∣bers (that is unpossible) and here is a visible Church meeting, (for Civil it is not) debating, advising about matters of go∣vernment of the House of God. So strong is truth.

Mr. H. There are associations of divers sorts, Classis, Synods,*Provincial, National, Oecumenick.

Ans. 1. A general Councel is before mocked as a nothing, and the Brethren bring arguments against the being and nature of Synods, Commissioners, Representees: The contrary is here asserted.

Mr. H. The acts must tis (saith Mr. R.) 〈◊〉 Ecclesiastick De∣crees.

Ans. Ambignity, darkness: to binde as a part of Scripture, is 1. That which is contained and clearly deduced from Scripture. Or 2. that this act of decreeing issuing from the immediate reve∣lation and assistance of the Spirit, maketh that which is decreed to be Scripture: in the former sense acts tie as good advice and coun∣sel onely; in the latter they tie not as Scripture.

Ans. No man (I do not say its done consultò) more darkens. Page  459 I brought three members to clear the matter. Mr. H. leaves * out the third, and darkens all: for acts of Synods lay on bands neither as formal Scripture, for they come not from the imme∣diately inspiring Spirit, nor yet onely as clear and infallible de∣ductions from Scripture, for so the counsel of a woman Abi∣gail, infallibly deduced from the sixth Command, laid a burthen upon the conscience of David. And this is all the tie that Mr. H. gives to Synods, they tie as godly counsels of women and ser∣vants. But Mr. R. and so Mr. Cotton, gives a third member, they lay burthens on the consciences of the Churches, not for the matter onely, as the godly advice of women, but formally, as from the Ministerial Authority of the Commissioners. And this power Mr. Tho. Goodwyn and Mr. Ph. Nye give to all Mini∣sters * over their congregations: So as these three shall be Judges of Mr. H. his great mistake in this distinction. Hence two con∣tradictions are here: Mr. H. gives no power to Synods, but power of advising, such as women over men. Mr. Cotton of∣fends at that, and sayes, that Synods have a Ministerial power over the Churches. In the former Mr. H. leaves his Brethren, and sides with Socinians and Arminians. And Mr. H. shall * confess the weakness of this distinction, if applied to doctrines delivered by Pastors to the flock; for they neither binde as wo∣mens godly counsels deduced from Scripture onely, not do they binde as immediately inspired formal Scripture.

2. The first and formal subject of the power of the Keys is the male-Church of the congregation (saith Mr. H.) yea, not that onely, saith Mr. Cotton, a part of the power of the Keys is in a Synod.

The Dissenting Brethren gave in a Paper to the Committee * of Accommodation at Westminster concerning Synods, &c.

1. At these meetings, let them pray, and expound Scripture, resolve difficult Cases of Conscience.

2. They may dogmatickly declare what is the will of Christ in these cases: and this judgement ought to be received with reve∣rence Page  460 and obligation 〈◊〉 from an Ordinance of Christ.

3. If the doctrine or practise of any Congregation be erro∣neous, hurtful, or destructive to holiness and peace of that, or of other congregations, they are bound to give an account thereof to the Classis or Synod.

So we owe a reason of our hope 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to every one, wo∣men and Magistrates that are scandalized, 1 Pet. 3. 15. Rom. 14. 15. 1 Cor. 10. 31, 32.

4. The Classis and Synod may examine, admonish, and in case of obstinacy declare against that congregation.

  • 1. This is but toward an offending Church.
  • 2. A brother or womn may declare against, or withdraw from obstinate offenders, though not as from a Church.

5. The Classis or Synod may judge of any who deserve excom∣munication.

6. If the particular Eldership refuse to do their duty, the Clas∣sis ought not onely to withdraw communion from them, but also to exercise the sentence of excommunication themselves.

This was refused by some; but its a great testimony from Adversaries for Presbyterial Government, onely it wants Scri∣pture.

7. In the case of an appeal from an unjust sentence, the Clas∣sis may repeal (they say not, by the power of Jurisdiction, for a Christian woman, a Martyr, repealed the Acts of Trent) the*unjust sentence, if the congregation be obstinate.

8. The Classis or Synod may ordain Ministers for congregations that have not a sufficient Ministery.

In all this (except the sixth) much is yielded, and nothing is yielded. For

1. Every godly counsellor, man or woman, as a counsellor, by the fifth Command is above such as are counsell'd, being ho∣noured to carry the minde of God, as a private messenger of God, beside that the counsel for the matter bindes the consci∣ence: So David saith to a woman, 1 Sam. 25. 32. Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me.

2. They insinuate a distinction of erroneous doctrine hurt∣ful to holiness, and some erroneous doctrine not hurtful to ho∣liness; whereas he who commands us to be holy as he is holy,Page  461 1 Pet. 1. 16. commands all sound opinions in fundamentals, or all revealed truths; nor can it but be hurtful to holiness, to have erroneous opinions of God and Christ, such as Socinians, An∣tinomians and Familists, and others have.

3. They do not with Christian candor set down their minde concerning Synods and Classis, as they call them, nor confirm what they say by Scripture.

Mr. H. If a heathen turn a member of the Iewish Church, he*is by Mr. R his way, by the Law of Nature to submit to Iewish ceremonies, because every-member of the corporation must be under the Laws of the whole: This shall make every Law positive to be the Law of Nature.

Ans. Not so: Its the Law of Nature in general, that the * whole rule the part, but it follows not, Ergo every member is to submit to every positive Law of the whole, though most unjust, the member is t•… submit to every Law of Nature commanded by the whole: The little finger infected with a Gangrene, is to submit to the whole man, that it be cut off for the safety of the whole body, but its against particular nature that it be cut off, but most suitable to universal nature. So in the general, its na∣tural for the creature rational to obey the Creator; but it fol∣lows not, but its a meer positive Law that Peter give his life for the Gospel, when God by a positive command calls him to it; and the Law positive, if Divine, i not contrary to the Law of universal Nature. Mr. H. frequently in such purposes slips.

Mr. H. The division of a Nation into Provinces, of a Christian Province into Territories or Presbyteries, is either a device of man, or a Divine Institution.*

Ans. If a device of man be taken for an act of Christian prudence, it is then neither simply the one nor the other, but mixt of both; for a device of man is taken in an evil part, for an unlawful forgery, as 1 King. 12. 33. Hos. 13. 2. Psa. 106. 39. and so whatever is an act of Christian choice, is not a device of man.

Mr. H. That which is acted by one, and may be altered by ano∣ther Prince, is a device of man. But such is the division of a Nation into provinces.

Page  462Ans. That which is in question is not concluded, the divi∣sion of a Christian Nation into Presbyteries and Provinces ac∣cording to local bounds and Mathematical inches, is alterable; and so a congregation Independent of 350, rather of 349, or 360, is alterable, shall it not upon reason be an alterable device? The quantity of water in Baptism, of wine that every one drinks at the Lords Supper, how long the pastor shall preach, two hours or three, are alterable, as to the quantity, by men; but for that the Ordinances of a congregation, of water in Baptism, are not devices or forgeries of men, that there should be such associations of Provinces, of Territories, for convenient feed∣ing, * governing, and Mr. H. granted for counselling, Mr. Cot∣ton for command and use of the Keys yields also; so the que∣stion shall not be of the subject, but of the power and of the bounds, where acts of free choice of rectified reason for civil ends also have place. But the Conclusion is naught. So, That which is not in the Word (saith he) is a device of man. I assume, the * frame of the meeting-house for congregational Worship, the number, names, trades, callings of members, the quantity of * water in Baptism, the quantity of Bread that every one eats a the Lords Supper, are no more in Scripture, than the Territories or bounds of Presbyteries, yet are they not for that humane devices.

Mr. H. It is doubtful that all our singular actions (as Mr. R. saith) are mixed, for eating and drinking must be for Gods glory, and Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vel mala.

Ans. If Mr. H. doubt of this, Ames, Didoclavius can speak * to it. There is such a thing as an action indifferent, as Augu∣stine saith, or rather Ierome, that is neither good nor evil, but it is not a humane action properly, as to spit or purge the nose. But see all the Schoolmen, Scotus, Thomas, Lombard, and all that writ upon them, and you shall never reade this new Axi∣ome, Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vl mala. Durandus indeed, and the Schoolmen say, that every act indivi∣dual which followeth deliberate reason, is necessarily either mo∣rally good or evil. See Greg. de Valentia.

Page  463 2. For the mixture of our actions; its cleare there is some∣thing physical in eating at the Lords Supper, as the word hath not set a rule concerning the physical quantity of Bread and Wins, so there be not too much, for it is not to feed the body, nor too little, for it must work upon the senses. And there is in praying, preaching, the tone, the accent of the organs, of the voice, and their motion: so that we eat and drink for God, and soberly and seasonably, is moral, and squared by the word; but a man sins not in eating quickly or lently, in the house, or in the garden, or sometime in his bed, sometime at midnight, upon necessity.

Mr. Hooker errs not a little. in calling the acts of the Synod, Act. 15. Councels, such as godly men and women, who are not Apostles and Elders, may give to others: for counsels are not burdens laid upon the people and Churches, by the wisedom and authority of the Holy Ghost.

2. By Apostles and Elders, who sharply rebuke the pres∣sers of circumcision, as subverters of the soules of people.

3. Neither are they indifferent advices, hich they might reject, but these they could not reject, without despising God and the Holy Ghost, the very thing that the Lord saith, he that dispiseth you, dispiseth me: which cannot be said of a counsel of the Heathen man to a Christian. It is (saith Mr. Cotton) an*act of the binding power of the Keys, to bind burthens, as Acts 15. 27.

4. The Decrees of no properly so called Church on earth are called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Decrees of Apostles and Elders. Mr. H. calls them only Advices and Counsels: is it not safer to believe Luke, Act. 16. 4. then Mr. H? But a Synod is never called a Church, say they; this is but to contend for names; for the word Church,〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, is three times, Act. 19. 32, 39, 40. given to a civil meeting: and Mr. H. will not have it given to Page  464 bodies meeting for the affairs of the Church of Christ.

Mr. H. Where there is no delegation of messengers by mutual consent, there is no right of jurisdiction, decrees onely bind the Churches who send them.

Ans. Antioch, Act. 15. 2. and Ierusalem sent messengers, therefore two Churches, at least were sent, and were bound; as * for delegation, we shall speak hereafter of it.

2. If they ought to send, and stand in need of light and peace, and send not, they are the same way tyed, that some hundreds absent, when Iezabel is sentenced and excommunicate, are obliged to withdraw from communion from her, though they were not present to consent to the sentence.

Mr. H. Its no prejudice to the care and wisedom of our Saviour, that the punishing of the congregational Throne be reserved to God*only.

Ans. When scandals between congregation and congregation, and members of divers Churches are greater in number and * offence, and necessity of edifying and scandalizing greater, his wisedom must provide for the more rather then the less.

Mr. H. If when a Church offends, I must tell a higher, then must I at length tell an Oecumenick or General Councel.

Ans. General Councels being more abstracted from infect∣ing scandals of conversation, are rather doctrinal Remedies: nor are censures the ordinary possible adequate way of remo∣ving of Scandal. The Word and Censures exercised in the Ca∣tholick integral visible Church, in parts integral is the adequate cause.

Mr. H. If every man be allowed his appeal to an higher, then also to a General Councel, then for many hundred years, while the appeal be discussed pendente appellatione, the appealer cannot be censured.

Ans. We allow only just appeals in case of oppression, to relieve the oppressed. *

2. In difficult cases, Deut. 17. which rarely are such as call for a general Councel, in case of general defection in point of Doctrine, such may be; and the inferiour Churches, that truth suffer not, are to declare for the truth.

2. We allow only what men jure may do.

Page  465 3. The argument supposeth that we approve a towering up of appeals, even to a General Councel, as a liberty of every member, whatever unjust prejudice be in it: and that every such appeal may stop the actings of Christs visible Kingdom and cal∣led Pastors. Christ hath given no power to sin.

Mr. H. Its a wonder, that because Churches may rebuke, yea, Christians may rebuke Heathens, though not in a Church way, that therefore the Synod hath a power of jurisdiction—Paul rebu∣ked the Athenians, Acts 17. A 〈◊〉 these acts of Church commu∣nion?

Ans. My argument is not à genere ad speciem, sed specie ad genus. These convened in the name of Christ by the Holy * Ghost, who 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, with one consent, by way of suffrage and judgement. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Act. 15. 9. & 21. 25. rebuke perver∣ters of souls, Act. 24. 28. and lay on burdens and commands, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to observe, Act. 21. 25. and keep such things, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to abstain from such things, Act. 15. 29. and give Decrees, by which the Churches were established in peace and truth, Act. 16. 4, 5. these have power to excommunicate the refusers of such acts, according to Matth. 18. for Paul and Barnabas were scandalized, and complained to the Church of Antioch. Act. 1. who sent them to complain to a Synod at Ierusalem, Act. 15. 2, 3, 6. and these who in a Church-way determine a∣gainst perverters of souls have juridical power: if therefore these men had done the contrary, and had refused to hear the Church, or Churches convened, and should teach these decrees came not from the holy Ghost, were they not to us as Publicans and Heathens? Yea, and wh•• more could the Church of Per∣gamus, and that of Thyatira Independent 〈◊〉, say our Brethren, do in making acts against such as hld the Do∣ctrine of Balaam, of the Nichola•… against Iezabel, Rev. 2. 14, 15. 20. If they should after prctice and practice such im∣pure doctrine, but declare them perverters of souls, and charge others to keep no fellowship with them? and shall all be but a rebuke, & such a counsel as one private man giveth to heathen? and sure Pauls rebuke of these at Athens, Act. 17. though it made not up the rebuke of a Church, yet Paul rebuked them not as a private man, or as a godly woman may rebuke Idola∣ters, Page  466 but formally as a Pastor. And Paul and Barnabas as Pa∣stors removed the Caadlestick, and turned to the Gentiles, Act. 13. and unchurched the Jews, which no private men could do. So the prophesies of Isaiah, Ieremiah, Ezekiel, against Babylon, Persians, Tyrus, &c. as they made not the people to be Churches, so they came not from private men, but from the immediatly inspired Prophets; and such Prophets of Divine authority these are proved to be from these Prophesies: So the juridical Church-authority of the Synod, by Whitaker, Cal∣vin, Beza, and hosts of learned Divines, is concluded from Act. 15.

Not is it my mind, that the Jews did excommunicate the * Samaritans so formally as a single delinquent is excommuni∣cate: nor do I defend the superstition by Mr. Io-Weemes, and Jewish Doctors in the manner of excommunicating them. Its sure, the Jewes, the true Church deservedly renounced Church∣communion with them. Origen, Iosephus, Carlus Sigonius, and others, tell us they were most corrupt in their Religion, 2 King. 17. and though Augustine say the Jewes so abhorred them, that they would not drink water out of any vessel of the Samaritans; and Christ refutes that, seeking water to drink from the Woman of Samaria. Yet since Christ saith, Ioh. 4. 22. Ye worship ye know not what; we know what we worship, for salva∣tion is of the Iews; he evidently, as Mr. R. said, justifieth the substance of the excommunication, which is all I intend: let their fooleries pass.

Mr. R. granteth one Church hath not power over another.

Ans. True, but one associate with many hath power.

Mr. H. A man may separate totally from a Church, and from Page  467 an assembly of Turks; but for one man to excommunicate, were a prfanation of the Lords Ordinance.

Ans. A single person could not separate from the Church of the Jewes, though they had not a few corruptions, Mat. 23. 1, 2, 3. Mat. 8. 4. no single person can lawfully be a member of a Turkish Church, how can he then separate from such?

3. The Church of the Jewes (and salvation was of the Jews, Ioh. 4 2.) was not one man; therefore their excommunicating of the Samaritans is not hence concluded to be null.

4. But when the sounder part, though fewer, separateth from the major part, and the major part makes manifest defe∣ction from the truth, and professed cause and covenant.

And 2 carry along with them the body of Atheists, and ma∣lignant opposers of pure Religion, and wicked men.

3. And that the fewer and sounder part have the collective part of the godly, and generality of such as make conscience of their ways with them.

And 4. That major part is again and again warned and 〈◊〉 go on to hold out and cast out, as far as they can, all, not of their sinful way, though in their conscience they in other things judge and prosess them to be sound and godly: in that case I judge the fewer part the Church, and their censures valid: for the promise is made to such as meet in the name of Christ, Mat. 18.

Mr. H. If all common affairs that concern many congrega∣tions (saith Mr. R.) were managed not by one congregation, * but by the suffcages, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Act. 15. 25. Apostles, Elders and select Brethren, then Synods and their Church-power most be lawful: but the former is true in the chusing of Matthias, Act. 1. and the treasury of the Churches, and callng of their Deacons, Act. 4. & 6. are disposed by a Synod of Apostles, with consent of the Churches. Paul instructeth a Synod or meeting of 〈◊〉 at Ephesu in their duty of feeding, Act. 20. & Act 11. Peter gives an account of his going in to the Gentiles, to a meeting of Apostles and Bre•…, 〈◊〉.〈◊〉, 4. Its true, in the chusing of Matthias, something extraordinary there was, that the Apostles could not do as Pastors, but as Apostles: as Page  468 Apostles they appoint two, v. 23. God only could limit the call to two certain men, all the Pastors and Churches on earth could not do that: and as Apostles, v. 24. they pray for the directing of the lo•…: and Act. 6. as Apostles by the immedi∣ately inspiring authority by which they writ Scripture, they appoint a new office of Deacons, which was not in the Church before: but they do most of the rest by the Churches going along.

Mr. H. There is no Synod in these.

  • 1. There be no delegate Commissioners.
  • 2. No gathering of members by common consent.
  • 3. No disputing.
  • 4. No common determination.

Ans. Neither the first nor the second are essential to Synods, if they be persons in publick authority they have a material de∣legation; a formal commission is a matter of order; nor were the last two wanting, not to say where the matter is plain, shall it lose the nature of a Synod, because it wants doubtsome •…diations?

But Mr. H. and Mr. Cotton are obliged to give an instance scriptural beside the question: we have Act. 15. a meeting of Apostles, Elders, Brethren, exercising by the grant of Mr. Cot∣ton and the 7. dissenting Brethren some specifick Church••cts of * synodical, pastoral, authoritative teaching and commanding of more congregations then one: Ergo, they have power to ex∣ercise juridical acts: for if Peter may exercise one specifick act of a man, let us suppose to play the Musician, the Astro∣nomer, to number things numerable, to admire, to laugh, no man can deny but Peter then must be a man, and hath pow∣er to discourse and argue. So if a Synod, as a Synod can ex∣ercise one specifick act of a Church, being convened in the name of Christ, a reason must be given, why a Synod hath not the essence of a Church to exercise all the specifick acts of a Church. A Synod is not a congregational Church; Ergo, its no Church, est incons. à negatione species, &c.

Mr. H. Peter gives an account of his fact, Act. 11. to the Iews,*who doubt of the lawfulness of his conversing with the Gentiles: but here is no Synod.

Page  469Ans. Yea, the Jewes, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Syrus, Chryso∣stom,* they accused Peter before the Apostles. Epiphanius thin∣keth Crinths set them on work, Beza, they chid. Its like, saith Gualther, the Apostles did not understand this; but they ac∣cuse noPeter. But Calvin wel observes, Peter willingly submits himself to the judgement of the Church, and renders an account to the Apostles and Church: and what is that but a Synod? Mr. H. his answer is one with that of the Jesuits Lorinus and Cornelius, that he gave out of humility an account to the peo∣ple, not to the Apostles, for he was above the Apostles.

Mr. H. Act. 21. The Elders were occasionally 〈◊〉, they pre∣scribe nothing o Paul.

Ans. It seems Calvin takes up the mind of Luke〈◊〉, for he saith, Hence we may gather, when any serious business was to*do, the Elders were in use to assemble, and Paul doth nothing in the Church of other pastors (aith Gualther) by his own private authority, but gives an account to the Ministers. B•… saith, this was the fourth Councel; Lorinus, no, for there were no vtes asked (saith he) no debates, &c. Corne••us à 〈◊〉 also denies it was a Synod, and sayes it was but a meeting that saluted Paul. Mr. H. ownes their opinion for his own, and calls it only an ••ea∣sional meeting. But say that it were so (as all synodical mee∣tings, both that Act. 1. and Act. 6. and that Act. 15.) it will not conclude it to be no Synod.

2. The saluting of Paul was a Christian formality of courte∣sie; but Paul in the Synod, v. 18, 19. gives them an exact ac∣count, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, singula ordine (saith 〈◊〉) particularly what God had done among the Gentiles: which is a business of the spreading of the Gospel through the habitable world, and they shew their judgement of Pauls carriage toward the Jews, and the ceremonies were not fully expired to them, and toward the Gentiles, they confirm the act of the Synod, Act. 15. busi∣nesses worthy of a Synod.

Page  470 Mr. H. Independent Government is deficient (saith Mr. R.) *because now when Apostles are not, all the means of publick and pa∣storal propagating the Gospel to other Churches, and to the heathen, are confined to a single congregation: whereas the Elders thereof can act nothing as officers, and the members can act nothing in a Church-way without that one congregation. This Argument of * mine is not answered by that of Mr H. Those whom pastors can∣not judge, as being without to them, because of another congrega∣tion, and heathen, over them they have 〈◊〉 pastor-like power. For the Proposition is most false: Pastors cannot excommunicate those of another congregation, or heathen; Ergo, they can∣not teach them as pastors. It follows not, ex negatione specii, non sequitur negatio generis: This is not a man, therefore this is not a living creature. So

1. A single pastor, he alone cannot excommunicate an offen∣der of his own congregation; for one man is not a Church, Ergo he cannot preach as a pastor to this offender. The conse∣quence is most false, and contrary to Mr. H. for he hath no other proper pastor on earth but he. So weak is M. H. his pre∣sent Proposition.

2. Paul and Barnabas preach as sent pastors authorized both by God, and the laying on of hands, and praying of the Pro∣phets at Antioch, Acts 13. but they have no power to excom∣municate the Gentiles, who are yet no members of the Church, nor baptized. Paul, Acts 16. 15. is sent to preach to Macedonia, without their choosing him to be their pastor; and yet Paul could not cast out those that were no members until they should be member. If it be said, that Paul and Barnabas preached to the Gentiles not as pastors, because not chosen by them, but as Apostles, this is well near nonsense. For,

1. Apostles as Apostles essentially are Catholick pastors, not private Teachers; and so Apostles preached as men, not sent of God, nor yet of men, whose Baptism was neither from heaven, nor from men.

2. Why not pastors? because not chosen by the people? that is, men onely can make properly so called pastors, but God cannot. Whither go we!

3. Are not all pastors either Apostolick or extraordinary or Page  471 ordinary the same pastors in nature and essence? except acts of preaching Christ and of Baptizing differ in specie and nature, as they flow from Apostles, and as they flow from ordinary men, which were to make Ordinances, the Gospel, the Seals, of different nature, better or valid, or worse and less valid, as they come from Apostles, or from ordinary pastors. Strange Di∣vinity 〈◊〉

3. By this Doctrine of Mr. H. the Gospel must be propa∣gated to the world, and Churches planted among heathen,

1. Either by Apostles, which are not now, and shall grati∣fie Seekers, or by pastors as pastors, which we say, and Mr. H. and his gainsay: or

2. By private men, or by pastors as private men gifted. * But 1. are private men successors of the Apostles, to plant Churches among the heathen? What Scripture for this? Is that Promise, L I am with you to the end of the world, left by Christ to private men? Sure that Promise is made to the Apo∣stles and their Successors, in all acts of their pastoral preach∣ing, either in planting or watering: So he sheweth (saith Ie∣rome) that the Apostles shall ever live in faithful pastors to suc∣ceed them, both in planting Churches, that ye may gather to 〈◊〉 my Church and Saints (saith Chrysostome) out of all Nations. Now by Mr. H. his way, the Lord promiseth thus: I will be with you, and all faithful pastors in preaching (when the Apostles are dead) to their own formed congregations; but I promise no presence nor Ministerial assistance at all to pastors ordinary, when they preach in another congregation than their own, or when they preach the Gospel to heathens, and those that are not yet Churches of Christ, for then they act not as pastors. Then must either pri∣vate Christians, or some new kinde of officers that are unknown to the Word, and are neither Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, nor Prophets nor Doctors, be the onely planters of Churches among the heathen: and where is there Scripture for that? Or then this Promise of Christs presence must be made to private men. But have not some private men brought the Gospel to heathens? True: but now we dispute of the onely fixed ordinary sprea∣ders of the Gospel to other congregations and heathen socie∣ties, Page  472 since the Apostles are now dead; ye, and we finde that the Lord gave a sort of new calling to the Apostles touching those to whom they were hic & nunc to preach, as Peter and Iohn are called to Samaria, Acts 8. Peter to Cornelius and the Gentiles, Act. 10. Paul and Barnabas, Act. 13. to the Gentiles, Paul to Macedonia, not Bithynia, Act. 16. Now is there no∣thing of this in the ordinary pastors, but private men must be heirs to these Apostolick warnings from God.

4. It must follow, if pastors be now so confined to one con∣gregation in all pastoral actings, then all pastoral care of Apo∣stles for vacant Charges, for planting of new Churches, relief of the poor, removing divisions &c. Act. 1. & 6 & 4. 35. & 11. 1, 2. & 15 22, 23, 24, &c. 1 Cor. 11. 28. Act. 8. 14. & 21. 18. & 20. 38. & 13. 1, 2, 3. were temporary and Apostolick stirring, not pastoral duties now, but such as died with the Apostles; which is contrary to the wisdome of Christ.

Mr. H. If government by Independent congregations be insuf∣ficient, because it authorizeth not persons to be pastors over pagans,*government by Synods is sick of the same disease.

Ans. We judge the essence of a pastor not to stand in the * call and choice of those to whom they are pastors; for it makes Paul, Barnabas and the Apostles to be no pastors to the Gen∣tiles and to the heathen, to whom they preach, and maketh the Apostles as Apostles to be no pastors.

2. Synods from Act. 15. and Act. 13. may lend men autho∣rized * with pastoral power to heathens to spread the Gospel, and private men as no pastors, but as private men, are intruders authorized by Mr. H. for they have no promise, such as pastors have by Mat. 28. 19, 20. Mark 16. 15, 17. Ier. 1. 6, 17, 18. to plant Churches among the heathens, nor is there a warrant to say that Evangelists are ordinary officers left by Christ to plant Churches.

If Richard Hooker have any ground from Eusebius or Scri∣pture * for Evangelists now, or in Trajans time, he must shew that they have the gift of Tongues: for how could Evangelists be fellow-helpers to preach the Gospel to the Churches planted by the Apostles, if they were not an extraordinary office onely? Page  473 See those Divines in the margin, and my learned and dear Bro∣ther * M. George Gillespy, Miscel. quest. c. 7. If the Church should send any to the heathen any way rip for the Gospel. these could be no other than ordinary pastors to them.

I omitted that of Mr. H. There is nothing Act. 1. but any one might have done.

Ans. If he mean, that any one private man might have cho∣sen Apostles, he speaks wonders; if he mean Peter might have called Matthias to be an Apostle,

1. Its without practise, that Apostles could call Apo∣stles.

2. It follows not therefore it was not a Synod. Paul did more in writing Scripture, than if alone he had penned the de∣crees, Acts 15. & 16. 4. But Mr. Cotton and all his Brethren will deny M. H. his Consequence; Ergo, there is no Synod at all, Act. 15.

Mr. H. If the Apostles by extraordinary power cared for the poor, Acts 4. Ergo there was a Synod.

Ans. The Antecedent is not mine, but false.

2. There was no doubt but ordinary pastors might oversee the Poors goods of many Churches.

Page  474


Of the National Church, and the lawfulness of a Natio∣nal Covenant.

MR. H. The greater authority of the politick whole body*(saith Mr. R.) should help the weaker parts, 1 Cor. 12. 23, 26.

Ans. Its true: but there is no National Church under the New Testament to help the congregational Church, nor are Churches Christian now in Worse ase than the Church of the Iews, for they had a High-priest and a National Worship, at which they were to meet three times in the year.

Ans. That there is an integral Church Catholick, which is * more than National, is proved.

2. Our Brethren allow the association of many Churches for help of counsel: and the Proposition that is granted by M. H. is as true, for Church help, as is said, associated Churches could not yield, for union in peace and truth, except they made one visible body united. Natura conjugatorum hoc vincit.

3. Visible and professed covenanting with God, makes a vi∣sible Church, Gen 17. 7. Deut. 7. 6. For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God; Deut. 10 15. Onely the Lord had a de∣light in thy fathers, (Abraham, Isaac, as a covenanted seed and Church, Gen. 12 1, 2, 3. & 17 6, 7, 8, 9.) to love them and their seed after them. Now the seed of Abraham visible covenanted, * by M. H. his confession was a visible Church, before they had an High-priest, or a Temple, or a National Worship in Abra∣hams house, Ergo, the High Priesthood and National Worship was accidental to the visible Jewish Church. If it be said, Ye, but they were in Abrahams time a congregational Church. Its answered, Yet then Priesthood, Temple, and National Worship Page  475 differenced not the Church of the Jews from the Church of the Gentiles. Our Brethrens Argument in this, is of the same stamp with that of the Murtherers of Steven, Acts 7. Steven all along in his Apologie refutes them, and aith, the Jews were a true Church in Egypt, when they had no Temple, no Ceremonies, no National Worship, but by faith onely rested upon the promises. So Calvin, Gualther, Bullinger, Brentius, Marloratus, Beza, contend, that Steven his Apologie had been impertinent, if this * had not been his scope.

2. They were a visible Church in Egypt multiplied above an hundred congregations, Exod. 1. 9, 11, 15. more in number than the Egyptians, and the Lords covenanted Church, Exod. 3. 6, 7, 8. & 6. 7. 8. obliged to sacrifice to God, Exod. 8. 29. and did eat the Passover, and were circumcised in Egypt, Exod. 4. 24, 25, 26 & 12. 1, 2, 3, &c. when as yet Aaron was not conse∣crated High-priest, and there was no Temple, nor any Natio∣nal Temple-worship thrice a year at that time in the world.

3. When Priesthood, Temple-National-worship thrice a year, sacrificing are removed, Iudah remained in the Babylo∣nish captivity, the visibly covenanted people of God obliged to pray to him with their faces toward the Temple, 1 King. 8. 35. Dan. 6, 10, 11. and this is no more one National worship, than the hearing of the Word, and receiving the Seals of the N T. are one National worship to all the Protestant Church∣members in Scotland.

4. That which is common to Gods people of the Jews, and to Egypt and Assyria, and the people of God in the Gentiles, is no distinguishing character differencing the Jewish Church, as National from the Christian Church as not National, Quae sunt communia a non distingunnt. But to profess, say and swear by the Lord, and give him publick Church-worship, agree to Page  476Egypt and Assyria, and to Kingdoms and Nations of the New * Testament, as to the Jewish Nation; as Isa. 2. 2. It shall come to pass in the last dayes, (under the New Testament) v. 3. that many people shall go, and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the Mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Iacob, and he will teach us of ù wayes, &c. So Isa. 19. 25. God shall bless thus, saying. Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hand, and Israel my inheritance. Which the seventh Angel de∣clares to be fulfilled in the New Testament, Rev. 11. 15. The Kingdoms of this world are become (the Kingdoms) of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever. So is the same, Psal. 2. 8, 9. & 22. 27, 28, 29. & 72. 8, 9, 7. & 97. 1, 2, 3, 8. & 99. 1, 2. & 110. 1, 2, 3. Mal. 1. 11. Isa. 19. 16. & 55. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 35. 1, 2, 3, & 60. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 62, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6, &c. Ier. 23. 6, 7. Zech 13. 8, 9. Nor will it help a whit, to say, O but the Kingdoms visibly covenanted under the New Testament, have not all one Temple, nor one National Worship in the way of the Iews. Its answered, That was accidental to the visibly covenanted Nation; for as a visibly covenanted Nation they the same way worshipped the same God in their Synagogues, and in a Church-way as a Church-Jewish, as we worship God in a Church-way in one single congregation. Temple-worship agreed to them not as a visible Church, but as such a special paedagogical visi∣ble Church.

5. The being a National Church in that sense, to wit, typi∣cally * National, doth not essentially difference the Church of the Jews from the Church of the Gentiles, as to the internal parts constituent of a visible Church. For

1. Peter saith, 1 Pet. 1. 2, 9. of the Gentiles, what the Lord of his people Israel, Exod 19. 5, 6. said, But ye are a chosen gene∣ration, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, (for he writes to visible professors then dispersed, as Beza and others, and the Text evinceth) a peculiar people, that ye may shew forth the praises (in publick Church-profession, 1 Pet. 2. 1, 2. by Hearing, Baptism, 1 Pet. 3. 1. and visible feeding of the flock by called Ministers, 1 Pet. 5. 1, 2. eschewing false Teachers, 2 Pet. 2. 1, 2, 3. &c. and receiving messengers, Sylvanus and others, sent to you to water Page  477 the planted Churches, 1 Pet. 5. 12) of him who hath called you out of darkness to his marvello•• light.

2. The Jews and Gentiles are made one catholick Church, the partition wall now being broken down, Ephes. 2. 12, 13, 14, 15. Isa. 6. 3. & 61. 4, 5, 9. & 62. 1, 2, 3, 4. & 54. 1, 2, 3, 4. and have communion in visible Ordinances, Isa. 66. 10, 11, 12. Zech. 14. 16, to 21. Isa. 49. 6, 7, 18, 19, 20.

3. The Churches of the Jews and Gentiles have the same Head and King in them, reigning in the same Ministery and Word, Hos. 1. 11. Eph. 1. 21. & 4. 11, 12, 13. Col. 1. 18. saved by faith, and the same grace of Christ, Acts 15. 8, 9, 10, 11. & 10. 42, 43. Heb. 11. 1, 2, 3,—1 Cor. 10. 3. They did all eat the same spiritual met, 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the same spiritual Rock, and the Rock was Christ.) Here our Brethren argue from the constitution and matter, visi∣ble Sains, as Mr. H. frequently, and the same formal cause, the Church covenant in the Church of the Jews, when it seems to make for them; and when the government makes against them, then they reject the argument from the Jewish Church.

6. What agrees to the Church of the Jews as a Religious society, to keep peace and Religion in purity, and to purge out offenders, and agreed to them in a moral, and no typical con∣sideration, that agrees to us also. But National Assemblies and National Engagements for Religion, agreed to the Jewish Church in a moral consideration, as it cannot be shewn there was any thing typical in that Assembly at Mizph, Judg. 20. but to cognosce of the publick wickedness in the matter of the Le∣vites concubine. The revenge was indeed civil, but the As∣sembly, for a scandal which made Religion to be evil spoken of, was a Religious Meeting, for no such folly should be done in the Israel of God. And the meeting of the whole congregation at Shilo in their Heads was Religious, to condemn the new Altar, as was reported, set up by the two Tribes, Iosh. 22. 12, 13, &c. And the Assembly of Israel at Mount Carmel, 1 Kings 18. pro∣cured by Elijah, was to prove that Iehovah was the Lord, and for the keeping of Religion pure. And the Covenant that Io∣shua made with the people, and that which Iehoiada made be∣tween the Lord and the people, that they should be the Lords Page  478 people, Iosh. 24. 25. 2 Kings 11. 17. and that the people sware under Asa, 2 Chron. 15 8 9, 10, 11, 12. were morally binding Covenants, prophecied to be under the New Testament, Isa. 44, 5. & 19. 21. The Egyptians shall vow a vow to the Lord. So Zanchy. There was indeed a thing temporary, and some typicalness in the manner of the punishing the breach of it, *Diut. 13. 15, 16. & 7. 24, 25, 26. but that ceremonial kinde of punishment did not belong to the essence of National cove∣nants, and therefore makes not the National covenant to be typical, and not morally binding to Christians, no more than Mr. Hooker will say, that the Law of punishing capitally false Prophets seducing to Apostasie, and divers other Laws to which something typically did belong but accidentally, doth not, as touching their substance, obligeth us Christians. So were also Councels morally binding to us, and consequently Engagements and Subscriptions to them and their Act. Nor can any say, but upon the supposition that Christ hath appointed officers for his house, but it was a moral duty, not typical (the Rule Acts 15. & 6. & 21. & 13. going before) and warranted by the Law of Nature; That the Nicone Councel about anno 327 should con∣vene against Arrius denying Christ to be God equal with the Father, and by the Emperors authority: And that in the Coun∣cel of Constantinople about ann. 383. Macedonius denying the holy Ghost to be God, should be condemned: and Nestorius affirming two persons in Christ, ann. 434. and that Eutyches holding one Nature to be in Christ after the Incarnation, and so confounding the Humanity and Divinity together, should be condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon ann. 454. See for more of this, Authors cited in the Margin, and their judge∣ment of Councels.

Page  479 7. How shall Egypt, Isa. 19. 25. Assyria, ibid. be a covenan∣ted Nation to God? by our Brethrens way, they must be a covenanted Nation only in parts, as members of an Indepen∣dent congregation; and so none shall be visible Covenanters with God, as Isa. 19. but their visible members.

Mr. H. To covenant with God is a free act, no Prince can com∣pel a Nation to swear a covenant National.

Ans. Then a Prince cannot compel a single man baptized, to hear the Word, nor a Minister to do his duty, to preach or feed, for these should be free acts in order to God, nor can a Judge by this compel a single man to witness the truth; for swearing should be a voluntary act of worshipping of God: but a Prnce and State can compel people to do a known duty of adhering to the worship of God, 1 Chron. 15. which they in circumcision undertook before to do, which duty ought in foro Dei, to be willing.

Mr. H. An oath to keep Gods commandments (saith Mr. R.) is a part of the third command, Psal. 119: 106. we are to contend for the faith, Jude 〈◊〉. 3. and profess God before men; that which bindes a man morally, binds a Nation. Ans. Davids aking an oath, was upon lawful grounds, to a lawful thing: but National Churches, and National Covenanting are now abrogate.

Ans. Then a desire to preserve Religion which is called in question in the Land, and to transmit it safe to posterity, be a lawful ground, as it is, and to continue Religion be a lawful thing, and to remain the Lords people, we have these two, which by Mr. H. made Davids taking of an oath lawful: Ergo, so must our National Oath, by Mr. H. be lawful.

2. That a National Church meeting all in one place at once * to worship God, is abrogate: we say, the Church of the Jews was no such Church, nor contend we for any such national Church. But if a National Church swearing a covenant to worship the Lord in sincerity, in parts, in several congregations be abro∣gate; then suppose all England were visible Saints, and all moulded in single Independent congregations, it were unlaw∣ful for all the members to swear their Church-covenant: why? all National Churches are abrogate, saith Mr. H. but is not here a National covenant, such as we desire granted by Mr. H.

Page  480 2. We contend not for a whole Nation meeting in one place * to swear. But sure all the land of Iudea, and they of Ierusalem were all baptized of John, Mark 1. 5. and all Divines grant there is a religious vow and covenant in baptism. Here is such a Na∣tional covenant of all the Land of Iudea as we contend for, as lawful under the New Testament.

3. Suppose the Turk came with a huge army against Britain with fire and sword, to kill old and young, except we will deny Christs Gospel, and our Baptism: Mr. H. by his way thinks it Judaisme for the Prince and Parliaments, to command all be∣tween sixty and sixteen to rise in arms, and to swear an oath to King and State: that we shall confess Christ before men, and stand by the Gospel and fight to the death, and die a Na∣tion of Martyrs, before we yield to that Turkish Tyranny. Why? a National oath is Iudaisme: for as a man is to confess Christ before men, Mat. 10. 32. so far more a Nation when cal∣led thereunto.

2. To take a covenant should be a free Ecclesiastical act. no Prince can compel to National Oaths: Its my prayer to God * that our Brethren in New England, be not compelled to quit Christian Religion, as we in Scotland were thralled to embrace Popery by the dominering power of Prelates. And shall it be Judaisme for Protestant Nations to swear the like, if the man of sin should blow the trumpet, and raise all the Catholick Romans i Christendom, against the Lamb and his followers?

4. If it be lawful for one professor to avow Christ before men, Mat. 10. 32. Mark. 8. 38. Luke 5. 26. & 12. 8. Rev. 2. 10, 13, 15. shall not Egypt, Asyria be obliged to set up (as it were) Altars to the Lord, and speak the language of Canaan,Page  481 Now that is a professed engaging to avow the Lord: now I might put Mr. H. to it, and its but an Anabaptist ground, to seek a warant for a National covenant under the New Testa∣ment; for I again desire him to give me a warrant for a Nati∣onal profession.

2. A National promise to be the Lords people.

3. A National confession of sins, and of leaving of the truth.

4. A National petitioning for grace to avow the truth to the end, and to transmit it pure to posterity.

5. A National confession of faith, except we argue thus, a single man does this, a David warrantably did swear, Ps. 119. 106. Ergo, a Nation may do the like.

5. The examples of the Jews Church are moral, not typical: Te oath was not tied to Temple, Sacrifice, or the like.

6. Its prophesied there shall be swearing, and subscribing to the Lord, and that the Jews shall renew their covenant to God, Ir. 50. 4, 5. see 1 Tim. 5. 12.

7. An oath is a law-band against back sliding under the New Testament, as under the Old enjoined in the third Com∣mandment. And there be warrants for oaths in the New Te∣stament, Rom. 9. 1 Phil. 1. 8. 1 Thes. 2. 10. 2 Cor. 1 23. & 11. 31. Rom. 1. 9. Matth. 5. 8. It is moral, Deut. 6. 13. & 10. 20. Isa. 19. 18, 21. & 45. 23. See Par. Zanchius, &c.

Mr. H. Were the oath lawful, yet not in a private man as in*a Nation, yet it must suit with our strength, that which is helpful to one, because strong and able to perform, is hurtful to another.

Ans. To swear single life is unpossible, for there is no com∣mand binding me to it.

2. Will Mr. H. say al baptized by Iohn, Mark 1. 5. and all their Church members that swear the Church covenant have a like strength, and all engaged to be buried with Christ in Ba∣ptism, Rom. 6. 3. 1 Cor. 12. 13. Gal. 3. 27. Col. 2. 11, 12. all Asa and Iehoiadah their covenants had alike strength?

Mr. H. The ground is worse, to wit, that which ties one man, ties a Nation: a man is not morally tied to keep Gods Command∣ments; he may live all his life and never take a private oath, and not sin; if he swear, this is a moral command to keep his oath, his Page  482 manner of swearing seems to be private, its but a free-will offe∣ring.

Ans. To lay bands of promises and oaths upon a back-sliding heart, is commanded in the third Command, and is not Judaical, *Gen. 14. 22. Gen. 28. 20. Psal. 132. 2. Psal. 76. 11. Its prophe∣sied as a moral duty of Egypt converted under the New Testa∣ment, Isa. 19. 21. They shall vow a vow to the Lord, all the Go∣spel purposes and resolutions spoken to the Lord in praying, in suiting grace to do duties, confessing sins are so many Gospel vows laid upon the heart, to do such duties: nor is there a for∣mal swearing required in vows made to God. And this is sinful omission of a morally obliging duty, and morally obliging one man: so it obligeth a Nation, as affiirmative precepts do: and this smels of Anabaptism to cry down all Gospel-vows.

2. The manner of swearing to continue in the professing of faith, when temptations from the Prince, and Edicts to receive the Mass Book are no more private and arbitrary vows, then the oath of your Church covenant.

3. Its poor Divinity to say that the free-will offerings to the Tabernacle and Temple were free, that is, arbitrary, so that a man might have lived all his life, and never been guilty, though all his life he never offer a free-will offering to Tabernacle, Tem∣ple, or to the Lord, as a man may all his life never swear a Na∣tional covenant, be guilty of no sin; so he may well say a man all his life may give nothing to the poor, to Hospitals, to maintain the Ministry, and Schools, and yet not be guilty, for all these are free-will offerings. Its a gross mistake, to say the free-will offerings were not commanded, as well as all sacrifices and other offerings, Exod. 35. 4, 5. Levit. 22. 21. Deut. 16. 10. they are free, not from a commanding law (I am ashamed of such weak conceits) but are free in regard of the willing hearti∣ness Page  483 of givers; and because the determinate quantity precisely fell not under a command, as in other offerings, but was re∣ferred to the holy freedom of the offerer.

Mr. H. The Rule is uneven, a particular man may engage not to drink Wine, as hurting his health and soul—a Scholar swears he will study painfully; a Plow man he shall labour dili∣gently; shall the whole land be tyed to such ••ths? yea, the contra∣ry rule holds for the most true.

Ans. A mistaken Rule is soon made uneven; what morally binds one single man, not as a Scholar, or a Plow-man, or such a special professor, but as a Church-member, baptized, * circumcised, as a visible professor, as to keep the Lords Com∣mandments, Psal. 119. 106. to be the Lords people, to con∣tinue sound in the faith, to confess Christ before men, when cal∣led to it, Matth. 10. 32. to seek the Lord God of Israel, 2 Chron. 15. 13. 2 King. 11. 17. that also morally binds the whole na∣tion, be it Egypt or Assyria, in covenant with God, when he shall call them to lay the band of an oath upon themselves, as being tempted by higher powers to deny the truth, and em∣brace popery, as was our case in Scotland; and this is our rule. Mr. H. deviseth an uneven rule, and would father it upon me. A Plow man as a special professor swears he shall painfully till the earth: Erg, all in covenant with God may swear, be they Kings, Nobles, Barons, Burgesses, and all the land may swear they shall desert all callings, and only till the earth. The like is to be thought of the other oath, which often is the drunkards oath, he shall never drink Wine, and with a spoon he sips till he be drunk: Ergo, all the Nation may so swear; but I know no such rule. It shall be Mr. H. or any mans, not mine.

Mr. H. The ends of general Reformation may be attained by*the Magistrate, commanding all the Churches in their several as∣semblies to attend the mind of Christ, to humble themselves and Page  484 fast, and if Churches be corrupt, they may be compelled by the ci∣vil power to attend the rules of Christ.

Ans. Its too laxily spoken, he speaks not one word of the Christian Magistrate or the magistrate godly and sound in saith, nor of the rule the Scripture, but only of the Civil Magistrate, the Civil Power. What if he be a Heathen? what if he be a Papist, a Socinian?

2. That the ends of reformation may be attained by the Civil * Power only, who can believe? For Mr. H. speaks not one word of the Concurrence of spiritual power and jurisdiction. Will not Erastians approve this, and say Church-discipline is needless? Mr. H. sayes, the end of Reformation may be attain∣ed by the Civil Magistrates commanding, &c.

3. Mr. H. tells us often that Church-duties should be wil∣ling free acts, pag. 40. hearing, fasting, praying, are acted by Ecclesiastical policy, Gods people are free and wi••ing; but here they may be compelled by the Civil Power to act these duties.

M. H. the Church-power is above the Synod, because the*Churches sent the members.

Ans. It only follows, that the Churches are above the Com∣missioners, as they send them, but in actu Synodico & Pastora∣liter*imperandi, as the Synod pastorally teach, as Mr. Cotton saith, and lay on burdens, Act. 15. the Synod is above them. How the male Church owe obedince to the dogmatick sentence of Pastors, we heard before.

Mr. H. If the Synod erre, Churches have power to call another*Synod, and pass sentence against them.

Ans. Nothing hence follows, but what I yield, the Churches in their way are above, and worthier then Synods that erre.

Mr. H. A Synod may enjoyn a man to believe contradictions, two Synods in two divers Provinces may conclude contradictory*things: a man goes to another Province to dwell, he believes a con∣trary conclusion to what he believed before.

Ans. In some things of meer order in one country the Ser∣mon * begins at eight or nine hours, in another Province not while ten: but these are not contradictory faiths.

2. There is no solidity, but emptiness here, an erring Sy∣nod could not jure determine contrary to the decrees of the Page  485 Apostles and Elders, Acts. 15. Christ hath given no pow∣er to Synod-Assembly, or Churches to conclude lyes, in dogmatick points; the contradicent of a true and sound Decree, deduced soundly from Scripture is a lye, and came not from the Synod. So Mr. Hooker may condemn Mi∣nisters, Churches, Preachers, Doctors, Assemblies, all who give counsel and advice, as no Ordinances of God, for the men that are Ministers, Churches, &c. may sinfully contradict the truth, and lye: but the Ordinance lyes not.

Mr. H. In all Synods, but an O••umenical, its lawful to make an appeal, and therefore to refuse.

Ans. In no Synod at all following the rule of Christ, is it lawful to appeal; but that is ever true which our Saviour saith, *he that despiseth you, despiseth me. Its a slandering of us, as if we taught any appeals, but from partial Judges, and opressive sentences.

2. In general Councels erring, as they are not infallible, we may appeal to another not erring General Councel, and to the collective Catholick Church.

Page  486


Of the Magistrates Power in convocating Synods.

MR. H. It belongs to the supreme Magistrate (the King)*as peculiar to his power and place, and not to the Church, to enjoyn the solemn and publick concurrence of the several persons of the Churches, and to appoint and nominate whom he will have to consider of those weighty and doubtsome cases which concern the publick professing and practising of the worship of God within his Dominions.

Ans. Erastians, and such as make the King the Head of the * Church, can give no more to the Prince, than Mr. H.

  • 1. By his Royalty he onely can convene Synods.
  • 2. He, by that same power, chooseth the members of Sy∣nods.
  • 3. Of his supreme Power in controversies we shall hear.

1. The Apostles, Elders and Church must then be in an act of Rebellion in convening, Act. 1. to choose Matthias, Acts 6. to ordain Deacons, Act. 4. & 5. to preach the Gospel in the Temple, and convene a Synod, Act. 15. from divers Churches, without the knowledge or consent of the supreme power. It cannot help to say, There was no Christian Magistrate then; for Mr. H. sayes, it was peculiar to his power; and proves it after∣ward, because Arg. 4. pag 58. he cannot otherwise maintain the peace of his subjects. Arg. 5. he cannot give them protection with∣out Page  487 this, pag. 59. But the heathen Magistrate as a Magistrate is to procure peace and protection to his Subjects, Rom. 13. 1, 2, 3. 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2. So must the Apostles, who gave to Caesar the things that are Caesars, have laid the foundation of the Go∣spel upon a rebellious usurping of that which is peculiar (saith Mr. H.) to the civil power and place.

2. The Churches of Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, &c. must have convened to Divine Worship, 1 Cor. 11. 17, 18, &c. without warrant, for Paul rebukes them for going to law before hea∣then Judges, 1 Cor. 6.

Mr. H. They may, as Christians, maintain private communion one with another; and as they be Churches, use that Christian pri∣viledge to further their own good, and promote the work by coun∣sel: for what I do quâ Ethicus, quâ Oeconomicus, quâ Chri∣stianus in private, appertains not to the Magistrate, except it in∣trench upon his policy.

Ans. 1. Mr. H. makes all that Christians do as Christians and as Churches, that is, gathering of Churches, hearing, par∣taking of seals and censures, to be private actings not belong∣ing to the Magistrate. Strange it is, that the convening of the ten thousand Subjects in the same place (as our Brethren say) belongs nothing to the Magistrate; sure it sides with peace or war. And yet Mr. H. saith, The Magistrate may compel men to*attend the mind of Christ, and solemnly to humble themselves by fasting and prayer. See how these two consist.

2. Its strange to say the Magistrate hath nothing to do with * what a man doth as a moral man, as a member of a family, or as a Christian so they do these things in private which they do; which is to say the Magistrate hath nothing to do with the Villanies, Particides, Adulteries and Robberies that men commit in pri∣vate. And Mr. H. saves not the matter by saying, The Magi∣strate hath nothing to do with the man, to punish him; I judge in these capacities, except he intrench upon his policy, that is, ex∣cept he break his Laws. But sure, he can punish no man in any imaginable capacity, private or publick, except he break his Laws. Beside that, its neither Law nor Divinity, to say, that a man intrencheth upon the Magistrates policy, and violates his Laws, as Ethicus, a moral man, or a member of a family either Page  488 in private or publick; for more abominable it is to say. He vio∣lates Laws, and Whores, Murthers, Robs as a Christian: for Christianity teacheth men to deny all ungodliness, Tit. 1. 11. for he must do all these as malus civis, as a wicked member of the Common-wealth.

3. I wonder more in what capacity the Magistrate can have to do with commanding and governing men, if not as they con∣verse morally with men, and in their families, as fathers and sons, as Masters and servants, and as Christians who both in pri∣vate and publick may perform duties to one another, or oppress one another; else the Judge could not punish the rebellious son, the wicked servant, or the murthering father, and the oppressing Master. Yea, the more secret that wicked acts are, a godly Magistate doth the more resemble God, who can say, as Iob, chap. 29. 16. I was a father to the poor, and the cause that I knew not I searched out. Nor do men, except extremely flagi∣tious, commit Villanies, Robberies, Murthers, Parricides, Adul∣teries, but in private: And it appertains to the Ruler the more to search them out, the more privately that they be acted. But if Mr. H. mean, that private actings of citizens, of members of families, of Christians, that are good and indifferent, do not ap∣pertain to the Magistrate, who is an adversary to him in this? Though all good actions done in private or publick deserve praise, reward and protection from the Magistrate, except Mr. H. expound that Rom. 13. 3. Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same, so thou do good in publick onely, as hypocrites: but thou shalt have no praise of the Ruler, if thou do good within doors. Is this good moral Philosophy of Mr. H? But how godly Princes may compel to external wor∣ship, * see Margin.

Page  489 Mr. H. Commission and just permission are all one: A Ruler permits a Finder to set up a School, he needs no commission.

Ans. If fencing be useful, the Ruler must give him positive * protection, as others that do well; else if one kill him when he teaches his Scholars, the Ruler ought not to revenge that mur∣ther, though most treacherously committed, and say he promi∣sed to the Fencer onely permission; and yet its worse to say the Christian Ruler owes to Assemblies, Pastors, Schools onely permission. Paul saith, he owes praise, Rom. 13. 3. which, with good ground, famous Interpreters expound to be countenan∣ting, favour, protection, reward, stipends. And if the Chri∣stian Magistrate do but permit Assemblies to convene, as a very Episcopal man D. Bilson said permissio est à magistratu, commis∣sio à Christo: What more influence (if permission and commis∣sion be all one) hath the godly Magistrate in the publick wor∣ship * of God, and Assemblies of the Church, then heathen Magistrates, Ahasuerus, the Kings of Chaldea, who permitted the people of God to worship the true God, Esth. 4. v. 16, 17. Dan. 6. v 7, 8. or the Church of Rome have, who by publick Order establish Stews, and permit fornication? See Emmanuel Sa, who saith, Bishops and Priests are by Law permitted to have Whores.

Mr. H. 1 Arg. That a right opinion and worship of God should be openly professed within the Territ•… and Iurisdiction f a State, appertains to them, as that which comes within the verge and object of the State and policy to attend. 1. They could not provide that the Subjct live in godliness and honesty without this. 2. Nor could be Nurse-fathers to the Church and Religion, if they should suffer open blasphemy and idolatry to be maintained and pro∣fessed. 3. The Kings of Israel did punish such crimes, not as types of Christ, but by a civil power.

Ans. 1. If the Magistrate have onely a permissive power * here, as even now he said, how doth Mr. H. again exalt the Magistrate as Head of the Church, to inquire and judge of pro∣fessions, and of true and false Religions by his civil power, as after Page  490 he speaks? If he do this by an antecedent Magistratical power, as Mr. H. saith in the following words; then hath God made the Christian Magistrate as the Magistrate by the power of the Sword (for the Magistrates power is formally coactive, not sua∣sory or moral, not Ecclesiastically juridical, to excommunicate) the onely Supreme Judge and Determiner of all true and false Religions; which Bilson disclaims. Henes

1. By his Office he may deny protection and justice to all that are not of his Religion, and banish them out of his Domi∣nions. Its true, they may say he plays the Tyrant in that; but yet God hath given him the onely supreme power, both to inquire (saith Mr. H.) and judge of Professions and Religions, which is true, and ought to be maintained, which is false, and ought to be rejected. And if so, the many godly who fled from Old Eng∣land to New England, because of Prelatical Tyranny of con∣science, did believe that the late King Charles had power as a King to judge the Service book and Ceremonies imposed upon the godly in England, yea and upon Scotland also, was the one∣ly true Religion, and had power given him of God as supreme Magistrate, to command all the three Kingdoms to be of the Kings Religion, or then let them all be banished out of his Do∣minions: But is not this to make the King a Pope, and the one∣ly carver and Lord of the Faith and Religion of his Subjects? and so the King, by his Office, is the Messenger of the Lord of Hosts, and a Royal Prophetical Teacher, who watches for the souls of all his people. What Scripture puts the King in such an Office?

2. Did not the godly and sound condemn such an Headship * in the Oath of Supremacy, and in the Kings Proclamation; in which he, as King, commands all to receive such a Religion as he thinks fit, even the substantials of the Mass, and no Prayers but book-prayers (the other Prayers being fancies?) And this command is equal to a pastoral or Synodical Decree.

Page  491 1. Because it comes from the King having no act of the * Church, but onely having taken the counsel of his Clergie, and so by civil power peculiar to his power Royal and place, as Mr. H. speaks, p. 56.

2. Because its the onely form of worship he thinks fit.

3. Because he commands it to all Ecclesiastick persons, Arch-bishops, Bishops, &c. as the onely Spiritual Pastor of Pastors on earth.

Hence if Christ hath given such power, its not lawful, with∣out breach of the fifth Command, to embrace or profess any Religion in a Christian Kingdom, except it be first instamped by or with the Authority of the King the Head (as the Chaplain calls him) of the Churches by his Royal Authority. Yea, our Book of Canons say, that Christian Kings now have the same power in causes Ecclesiastical, that the godly Kings among the Iews had: And are they not then Prophets by office, and may write Canonick Scripture, as David and Solomon did? and so we must not, without Rebellion, profess the Faith or the Christian Reli∣gion, but when, and where, such as the King commands us; contrary to Mat. 10. 32. or we are to confess Christ before men, but not except the King teach and command a confession, and such a confessor?

3. Paul must have told us, Eph 4. 11, 12. of the King, as well as of the Apostle given to edifie the Body, and gather the Church, if so be that he is the onely supreme Iudge of true and false Religions: And he must be some spiritual officer, and one who chooseth a God and a Religion to his Subjects; and he must be he holiest Subject, who can say, The Kings God is my God. When I read this, I was sad, to see Mr. Tho: HookerPage  492 speak and write like the Royalist Mr. Rich. Hooker.

4. The Magistrate supreme and inferiour, except Mr. H. be an Erastian, is a member of the Church, and under the Scepter of Christ in the preached Gospel, and to be edified by the Word, Seals, Rebukes and Censures; for otherwise. He that despiseth you despiseth me; and, if he hear not the Church, let him be as a heathen; and, Faith comes by hearing, must suffer a strange exception in the person of the King; he may despise pa∣stors and the Church without guiltiness, for he is above the pa∣stors, and carves their Religion, and prescribes, as our cited Proclamation saith, the causes why Bishops should excommuni∣cate and censure, to wit, if they refuse the Kings Religion; and Mr. H. warrants him by a power peculiar and supreme so to do.

5. We reade not that the Kings of Israel and Iudah prescibed what was true and false Religion, but were subject to the Priests and Prophets, who spake the word of the Lord: and the Pro∣phets rebuked Kings, as Ieroboam and others, for intruding themselves in that office. Moses, Samuel, David, Solomon were Prophets, 2 Chron. 36. 16. Isa. 50. 19.

6. The Magistrate is the Minister of God, and bears the Sword to take order with evil doers, and is Custos & vindex utrius{que} tabulae, and the Religion is supposed to be before the Ruler.

7. Its somewhat heathenish, like Numa, Lycurgus, who to procure obedience and authority to themselves, gave out, that they prescribed what Religion was true, and that they conver∣sed much with God.

8. All questions and controversies of Religion in the Nation must be determined, all cases of conscience resolved by this Pope, who onely can determine what is true, and what is false Religion; and the King must be the Oracle and Priest, with whom onely the Urim and the Thummim must be.

9. All fallings against Religion must be Treason against the King: whereas Kings and people are rebuked, because they hearkened not to the voice of the Prophets, not because disobe∣dient to the word of the Lord in the mouth of the King. Either this is to take both the Swords from the Pope, and to give them Page  493 to the King, or it is nothing: for without controversie the King bears the Sword to take vengeance of him that doth evil, Rom. 13. 4. 1 Pet. 2. 14. and whosoever determineth by his supreme power, what is true and false Religion to all the Subjects, must bear the other Sword.

10. M. H. makes out his Assertion thus: Kings could not provide for their Subjects, to live in godliness and honesty, except they had power to inquire and judge of true and false Religions. Now this is spoken of Nero and of heathen Kings, 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2. But out of doubt, God never made heathens, that are enemies to true Reli∣gion, supreme determiners of true and false Religion: And if this agree to Rulers as Rulers, as M. H. saith, it is peculiar to their power and place; then all Rulers, Heathen, Christian, high and low, sound in the faith, and corrupt and heretical, should be carvers of so many sundry Gods and Religions. But the next Reason is ill and worse, if because the King is a Nurse-father to the Church, he must be father, and a begetter both of Religion and of the Church, & because he protects and defends the true Church, then true Re∣ligion must be before him: As also when Mr. H. saith, that the Prince is a Nurse father to the Church, he means, the Inde∣pendent Church onely, so that he owes no protection to Pres∣byterians, nor justice to them. And if the Nurse-fathers care be, that there should be a right opinion and worship openly profes∣sed within his Territories, the Magistrate is to do this no other wayes, but by the Sword, for another power he hath not; then must he with the Sword compel all within his Dominions to be * professed members of Independent Churches, else M. H. judges there is some other sound worship and sound profession: But this compelling of men to be Church-members, Mr. H. before disclaimed.

Mr. H. doth also suspiciously give his sense of Toleration, while he limiteth the Magistrates power, to the not suffering of*open Blasphemy and Idolatry. But beside open Blasphemy, there is Blasphemy Pepery in the hesds of it, many dangerous errors about superstructures and non-fundamentals, are these errone∣ous opinions professed to be tolerated? Mr. H saith nothing against the Belgick and Socinian Toleration of all Errors, except fundamentals, which are made few by them, and hard to be Page  494 known: And what the Gospel suffers by the Toleration holden * by the Independents in England, and swarms of Sects there, is too manifest to the Christian world. See the Arminians and Socinians in the Margin.

Let the Reader judge of Mr. H. his Reason, The Kings of Israel did punish Blasphemy and Idolatry, not as Types of Christ, but by a Civil power. Mr. H. shall not in haste teach us what was typical, what moral. Mr. Lockier and others make the con∣stitution of the Jewish Church typical, and of another nature from the New Testament Church; others, not so. But I am afraid our Brethren augment the Kalendar of Typicals, until the Old Testament be well near laid aside, as many Anabaptists do. The Kings of Israel punished blasphemers, not as types of Christ, but by civil power. But Ioh Goodwyn will reply, Was it a civil power morally that belongs to all Christian Magistrates to destroy the city, in which the Inhabitants are seduced to Ido∣latry, and that all the Inhabitants and the cattel be utterly de∣stroyed, and the spoil burnt with fire, as Deut. 13. 15, 16? to pu∣nish the cattel of Idolaters and Apostates with death, and burn all the goods with fire, surely must be temporary then. But let Mr. H. shew what is typical in a National Oath: They say, *There is no shadow of it in the New Testament. Ans. If the meaning be, there is no express command, no practise of it in the New Testament, or for it, and therefore it must be ty∣pical.

1. By this Argument negative, this is not in the New Testa∣ment, Ergo there is no warrant for it in Scripture, is fair for all who would casheer all the Books of the Old Testament as no Scripture; and so that the Magistrate should take away the life of one that commits Sodomy, Bestiality, murthers Father or Mother, must be typical, and not obliging under the New Te∣stament: for let Mr. H. shew an express command or practise for it in the New Testament. A general there is, Rom. 13. but Socinians, Anabaptists tell us, You must not take away the life of Page  495 him who is created according to the Image of God, by Logick and argumentative consequences, but by express Law.

2. Let it be shewed by what express precept or practice in the New Testament, a rich Son should take in to his house and feed and maintain his Father-in-law, and his Grand-father, and his Grand-mother that are begging.

3. Mr. H. may also press us for an express precept, or pra∣ctice of a promissory oath in a private person, as well as in a * Nation; and for a covenant of peace by oath between a Chri∣stian Nation, and a neighbour Christian Nation in the New Testament: or suppose a Christian Nation should neighbour with a nation that worships the sun, compelling all strangers that come within their bounds, by death, to deny Jesus Christ, & wor∣ship their God the Sun, there must be an express particular pre∣cept for a covenant oath, for peace to warrant such a paction, that the Heat•… Nation shall kill none of theirs for refusing Sun-Worship.

4. The particular temptations that may tempt Ionathan to be on his own Fathers side against David, and might stir Da∣vid up against Saul and all his seed, were a sufficient call to put David and Ionathan under the tye of the oath of God one to another. There were good grounds of the covenant between Laban and Iacob. And some Nations designed of God should submit, suit peace, and embrace the Jewish Religion. Was there not cause, why both they and Israel should lay upon themselves the band of a covenant oath? that both of them should be the united Confederates of God: and the like Na∣tional temptations press a Nation now, when its become the Lords covenanted Kingdom, as Isa. 19. 25. Rev. 11. 15. which within and without is enticed to receive the mark of the Beast, and his name on their foreheads, to guard themselves against such snares by a National oath, not that every one of the Nation, though ignorant, profane, and malignant, and treacherous enemies to the truth should be admitted in covenant. And Mr. H. seems to say that promissory oaths of single persons under the New Testament are not necessary; and (say I) not lawful, if not necessary. For Mr. H. saith, a man is not neces∣sarily and morally tied to swear or vow. And I believe a man Page  496 may live all his life and never take a private oath, I say, private*betwixt God and himself, to keep his Laws, and yet not be guilty of sin in so doing.

Mr. H. speaks most mistakingly of the doctrine of vowes, * as if he had not read our Divines.

For 1. Our National vow that we shall be the Lords people, cannot be called a private vow.

2. If a vow to keep Gods Commandmens tye not morally, and so be not necessary, it is not lawful; and if so, we must condemn these general vows which one makes to God in pray∣er, Psal. 32. 2. I will bless the Lord at all times, Psal. 101. 2. I will behave my self wisely in a perfect way. Who can pray in faith to God in private, but they must engage themselves to * God to run, if he draw? and what suits an enlarged heart, and strength against temptations? and who can pray for faith, and perseverance, but they vow new obedience? ••d yet Mr. H. saith, a man may all his life never vow betwixt God and himselfe to keep the Commandments of God, and not be guilty. As for vowes of particular things, vows concerning spare dye, our Divines, aCalvin, professors of Leyden, Tilenus, Bacanus, teach they are utilia potius quam necessaira, useful, and in regard of particu∣lar temptations, profitable rather then necessary. Now one National vow is to the whole duties of the first and second Ta∣ble, which we tye our selves to perform both in Baptisme, in the Lords Supper, in selfe-judging, in confession of sin.

And 2. To say a man all his life may never be tyed to a vow, is to say a man may never pray, never confess his sins, never speak in private his godly Gospel-resolutions, and purpose of heart to cleave to the Lord, and yet not be guilty.

3. This is to make all Gospel-vows to be unnecessary, and will worship under the New Testament. Whereas Papists tell us in the Mass they make a general vow of obedience to God. See Durantus and Gab. Biel.

Mr. H. For if the Magistrate were bound to follow the judge∣ment*of the Churches and Ministry, if they should judge a tole∣ration Page  497 of all Religions lawful, or judge the false to be true, he then were bound to nurse the false Religion, and false Churches.

Ans. 1. No shadow of consequence is here, for neither Magistrate nor people can be bound to follow the judgement of the Churches or Ministry, farther then they follow the Rule of the Word, they follow their judgement conditionally, not ab∣solutely and simply; and it is a great calumny of Mr. Burton* and our Brethren, that we lay bands on the consciences of Prince and people to follow the acts and determinations of the Church, be they true or false: and that there is no place left to appeal to the next, or a better informed Synod, and to the consciences of the collective Church of the godly judicious professors, and to protest and deny obedience to erring Assem∣blies. If it be said, but where is there a Iudge to determine whe∣ther this or another well informed Synod, or the conscience of the collective body of the godly be right? This argument falls with e∣qual weight upon all Judicatures, all Judges, Parliament, Prince and Councellors with him, & upon all Assemblies; for what they determine, be it toleration of all blasphemies, or a strictest uniformity in Worship and Religion, it hath no power to bind the conscientious and moral practices of Prince or people, more then to bind their conscience by this: for the Fraternity and whole Church is tyed to follow the dogmatick determination of officers, in preaching or in sentencing delinquents without gain-saying: what the officers decree (saith Mr. H.) it is to all as the word of God. But Mr. H. must answer us, Churches * and Ministry are bound either absolutely or conditionally to fol∣low the Judgement of the King, who judgeth popery is the only true Religion, to which he can tender protection. If the former, what Tyranny are we under, who must submit to the Religion of the Prince, or be denuded of all protection, and exposed to fire and sword? If the latter be said, to wit, that Churches and Ministry are only conditionally to follow the judg∣ment of the King, so they find it agreeable to the Word, other∣wise not: then it must be false which Mr. H. said, that the Prince is the only supreme Judge of all true and false Religions: to say they must either obey or suffer, saith, that Christ exposed all to Martyrdom.

Page  498 Mr. H. If it be in the Magistrates power lawfully to forbid and hinder, then it is not in the power of the Churches to do lawfullye for*then the same thing should be in the same regard both lawful and unlawful•… and the rules of providence shall be opposite one to ano∣ther: but the supreme Magistrate may hinder any of another Na∣tion to come into his Kingdom, or his own subjects to go out, other∣wise he should want power to oppose them who come to lay waste the State, and should not have power to require homage of his own people.

Ans. 1. The probation of the proposition is most false, for * the power of the Magistrate is not to forbid, or command what he pleaseth, but according to the rule of the Word, and the Churches power is the same; if both the powers be lawful, their objects cannot be contradictory: for God hath not given to two lawful powers any lawful liberty, that the one may com∣mand what is lawful, and the other what is unlawful: for then he should give a power to command unlawful things, and the command of a created power should make it lawful, which is blasphemous: this argument falls with weight upon the Inde∣pendent way. There is a Iezabel in the Independent Church of Thyatira, and another Iezabel in the Church of Pergamus, each Church (say our Brethren) hath an immediate Indepen∣dent * Church-power to excommunicate. Thyatira useth their power and excommunicates Iezabel which is under them. Per∣gamus absolves and defends their Iezabel. Both powers are highest and immediate, and countable to no juridical power on earth: both are lawful powers. Then must it follow, if it be in the power of the one Church, to wi, of Pergamus, law∣fully to forbid and hinder the excommunication of their equal∣ly guilty Iezabel and the c•…ning of her blasphemous Do∣ctrine: (for Pergamus absolves their •…l, and commends, and defends her Doctrine as so•…d and •…g) then it shall not be in the power of T•… lawfully to excommunicate their Iezabel, and condemn he plasphemous Doctrine: for it shall follow, that the same Doctrine must be in the same regard both lawful, and sound, and edifying (saith the lawful power of Pergamus) and 〈◊〉 unlawful, and unsound, and destructive to souls, saith the lawful power of Thyatira.

Page  499 2. The probation is feeble and wacery, the King hath suffi∣cient power to oppose wasters of his Kingdom, and to require ho∣mage*of his subjects. Suppose he have not an unlimited power to forbid these of other Nations and Churches, and his own, to go to a Synod, within or without his Nation, for the setling of the Churches in necessary peace and truth, if the Churches must seek liberty and counsel for their soules good, and edifi∣cation: nor hath he any lawful power from God to hinder his own subjects to send Commissioners to sound and godly Sy∣nods for counsel and synodical light, more then Ieroboam could lawfully forbid the people to go and worship at Ierusalem, upon pretence, that they might be perswaded to cleave to Rehoboam their lawful Prince, and waste his new Kingdom: nor hath the Prince an unlimited and absolute power to exact such absolute homage of his people; nor such a power over their moving from place: for so the Church Independent of Ierusalem confisting * of ten thousand, if not more, should have no intrinsecal pow∣er to meet for the publick worship of God; but the Prince must have a lawful power to hinder their meeting, or then the Church cannot have a lawful power to meet; for the convening of ten thousands, if abused, is as dangerous for wasting of a Kingdom in its own way, as the convening of a national Synod, is, or may be destructive to peace.

Mr. H. To appoint such solemn publick Assemblies is an act meerly civil; Ergo, the Prince may do it. A civil act belongs not to an Ecclesiastick power. A right opinion, rectus de Deo sen∣sus & cultus, of God, and a right worship of God is a meerly civil act.

Ans. There is nothing here sound, but evil and worse. Christ •…h given an Ecclesiastick intrinsecal power to his Church to meet, it being a part of his free Kingdom, and he himself a free King. Suppose the Princes of the earth oppose, Ps. 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Ps. 110. 1, 2, 3.

2. Kings are Nurse-fathers, having a civil, but cumulative Page  498〈1 page duplicate〉Page  499〈1 page duplicate〉Page  500 power to command them to meet and assemble, but no privative * power to hinder them.

3. This proves they may not meet in a single congregation without the leave of the heathen and persecuting Magistrates, and condemns all the assembles and Church-meetings of the Apostolick Church as rebellious; for they had neither allow∣ance nor command of the Magistrate, yea, they were forbid∣den: and heathen Rulers as Rulers have power to oppose wasters of their Kingdoms, and so had the heathen Emperors in the Apostles times, as well as Christian Magistrates have such a power.

4. A right sense and opinion of God is no civil act. This yet more makes the Magistrate an Ecclesiastick person.

Mr. H. To call what members of the Synod he pleaseth to con∣sult about the good of the Church belongeth to the Prince, and their homage requireth this, otherwise he could not maintain the peace of the subject in godliness, for providence doth not require the end, but allows also the means.

Ans. Because the third and fourth Arguments are one, they are here.

1. The godly and sound Prince may call godly and learned Divines where the Churches are rightly constitute; but when the Churches make no free election of these Divines, it is nei∣ther a free Synod, not are the Divines messengers of the Chur∣ches, nor sent by the Churches, as Act. 15. 1, 2, 3. nor may * the Magistrate for the maintaining of the peace of the subjects in godliness, use what means he pleaseth for that end, but only means prescribed of God, except Mr. H. can prove that Christ hath annexed to the royal Office, a gift of chusing members of Assemblies, more excellent then is in the Churches, which we read not. And if 2. this belong to the Magistrate as the Ma∣gistrate, then all Magistrates, Heathen, Arrian, Socinian, Po∣pish (for sure they are Magistrates) must have this power, and this power only, if it be given to godly and sound Magistrates, as such, Mr. H. his instance of Herod comes far short of this power. Read then the Councel of Antioch holden by the Arrians under Constantius. Then must Maximus Bishop of Ierusalem, and Iulius Bishop of Rome, who refused to come Page  501 to that Councel, be Rebells by Mr. H. his reason, and deny ho∣mage to the Emperour. For the Magdeburgenses, Sozomen, So∣crates,* tell us these godly men justly feared the Princes siding with Arrians, and the design of casting out of Athanasius, at the Assembly at Antiochia, Anno 344. and the altering of the Nicene faith, as fell out: and its known that Constantius ri∣gorously and unjustly commanded those of the Councel of Sirmium, Anno 356. to recall the two Confessions of Faith, one in Latine, another in Greek, in which though abstaining from the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, (which should not have been) they gave great glory to the Son of God; yet that they too much inclined to obey his wicked design, in that he also banished ma∣ny worthy Bishops, Liberius Bishop of Rome, Paulinus Bishop * of Triere, Dionyfius Bishop of Alba, Osius Bishop of Corduba, and others, because they refused to ratifie in the Councel at Millan, the deposition of Athanasius, and to alter the Nicene Faith. See Theodoret, Socrates, Sozoen, Ruffin. Much more * of the flexibleness of Constantius in opposing the Councel of Ariminum, and in arming with power Ursatius and Valens to publish the summe of the Arrian Faith, and to eject sundry Bishops, who refused to subscribe thereunto: and in gathering a Councel in Nica a town in Thracia, which ratified the Ar∣rian Faith, and called it falsely the Nic••• Faith; as if the world knew not then and now, the difference between Nica in Thracia, and Nice in Bithynia. See Socrates and Sozomen.* Who shall read the Histories shall find, 1. That the Emperors were not Masters of true and false Religion, as Mr. H. saith. 2. That they had not power of chusing members of the Coun∣cel. as Mr. H. 3. That godly Bishops refusing to come to cor∣rupt Councels at the command of the Emperor, were not coun∣ted rebellious, as Mr. H. saith.

To the fifth Argument, The Churches need the protection of the Prince in Assemblies, and are to give an account to any of their*faith and doings, 1 Pet. 3. 18. and far more to the Christian Prince: but it follows not, that they have no intrin•…l power Page  502 from Christ to meet themselves, if the Prince refuse to con∣vocate them, as Asa, Hezekiah, Iosiah did, for the Magi∣strate ought to protect the Independent congregation, and every single Professor: but it follows not, therefore the sin∣gle congregation hath no power intrinsecal to meet for Word and Seals, except the Prince who is a persecutor, give him leave: nor follows it yet, therefore no single member can profess Christ before men and the Ruler (who often perse∣cutes confession of Christ) except the Ruler give him leave to profess Christ, and to meet in a Synod: For Christ hath given to his Church, and members thereof, power to wor∣ship him in private, in publick, in Church-Assemblies, and hath laid above their heads no lawful privative power of Ru∣lers to hinder his people to worship the Lord God, Exodus 3 and the Argument retorted concludes against Mr. Hooker. The Prince hath no power under pretence of keeping civil peace to Casar, to hinder actings of rendring honour to God, contrary to truth, and destructive to the Gospel.

Page  503


Antiquity knew nothing of the Mystery of our Brethrens Independent Way.

THe external Society of the Church (say the Magdeburgen∣ses*is at all times mixed of good and bad. Our Brethren say of all visibly good, even visible converts. The Magde∣burgenses teach, That after Paul hath commended the faith and obedience, love, sanctification, growth of grace of the visible Church of Rome, Rom. 1. 6, 7. Corinth, 1 Cor. 1. 2. Galatia, Gal. 1. 2, 3, 4. Thessalonic, 2 Thess. 1. 2, 3, 4. Philippi, cap. 1. ver. 5, 6. and the seven Churches, Rev c. 2. & 3. which are commended highly by Christ; yet in the same very Epistle, the mixture of visible hypocrites was to be seen among them.

See Fla. Illy. in Catalogo Testium veritatis lib. 2. pag. 91, 92, 93.

Pa. Simpson his Centuries, Cent. 1, 2, &c.

Baron•• Annales, Cent. 1. & sequentibus, ann. 204, 242, 245.

Iacob. Gualterium Iesuitam in Tabulâ Chronographicâ, a. 1. seculo ad seculum 17. Sac. 1. ad an. 100. pag. 153. sect. 3. & sequintibus

See Bernard.

See August. tom 7. contra Epistolam Parmeniani Donatista, l. 1, 2, 3. de Baptismo contra Donatistas, lib. 7.

Page  504Contra literas Petiliani Donatistae, lib. 3. Lib. de Unitate Ec∣clesiae.

August. contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 4. Colla. cum Donatistis. Ad Donatistas post collationem, l. & l. de gestis cum Emerito.

See Cyprian. ad plebem & quin{que} Presbyteris Schismaticis fa∣ctionis Foelicissimi, Epist. 40. vol. l. 1. Epist. 8.

Cyprian. ad Cornelium de ordinatione ejus à s comprobata & Foelicissimo, Epist. 42. vol. l. 2. Epist. 10.

Cyprian. Cornelio, Epist. 45. al. l. 4. Ep. 8.

Cyprian. Antoniano de Cornelio & Novatiano, Epist. 42. al. l. 4. Ep. 2. Cornelius Factus est Episcopus à plarimis Collegis nostris, qui tunc in urbe Roma aderant, qui aa nos literas honorificas & audabiles, & testimonio suae praedicationis illustres de ejus ordina∣tione miserunt, &c. Ib. pag. 119. Quod vero ad Novatiani per∣sonam pertinet—Quisquis ille & qualiscun{que} est, Christianus non est, qui in Christi Ecclesia non est—nisi si Episcopus tibi videtur, qui Episcopo in Ecclesia à sdeci Coepiscopis facto, adulter atque extraneus Episcopus fieri à desertoribus per ambitum nititur; & cum sit à Chricto una Ecclesia per tolum mundum in multa concor∣bra aivisa, item Episcopatus unus, Episcoporum multorum concor∣di numrofitate diffusus, isse post Dei traditionem, post connexam & ubique conjunctam Catholicae Ecclesiae unitatem, humanam co∣netur Ecclesiam facere, &c. Mr. H. who cries out against me, because I teach, that he who is a pastor of one Church, is a pa∣stor of all the Churches in the earth, may cry out against Cy∣prian.

See Cyprian. cum Collegis Lucio Papae Roman Ep. 58. al. l. 3. Ep. 1. Cyprianus ad Stephanum de Martiao Arelatensi, qui No∣vatiano consensit, Epist. 67. a. l. 3. Epist. 13. In all which, this is clear to Cyprian: Episcopatus unus, quamvisplures Episcopi in Ecclesia catholica, which throws down Mr. H. his way of a pastor married to one single congregation.

See my Reverend Brother Mr. Baily, Vindication of his Dsswasive, ann. 1655. especially to Mr. Cotton, cap. 4. sect. 2. pag 49, 50.

There was an equality of Jurisdiction in this age among the Churches; but that these Writers mean not single congrega∣tions Page  505 as such, that every congregation hath power to call and depose officers, I do not concide; for they deny a supremacy * to the Churches they speak of here 〈◊〉〈◊〉Rome. Constantinople; but these as Mother Cathedral Churches, not as single congre∣gations, claim supremacy, as here also they ascribe Jurisdi∣ction to associate Churches.

Observe also, that they say the form of Government of the Church, was almost like to popular Government, not a Demo∣cracy it self. It is like in times of Persecution, the meeting of Christians being early in the morning, at the time of receiving of heathens to Baptism (in which all the Christians, as well as the one baptizing congregation, were interessed) and in the Lords day acts of Discipline have been few The Magdebur∣genses tell us from Iustinus, from Plinius his Epistle to Trajan,* from Eusebius, l. 4. c. 23. as Dienysius Corinthus in that place saith they read the Prophets and Apostles, a pastor exhorted to follow what was read, the whole company stood up and prayed, and received the Lords Supper, and thereby obliged themselves to walk as Christians, not to kill, not to whore, &c. By Doctors and Rulers Ministers were ordained, as the Histo∣ry * of the Apostle Iohn witnesses, and casting of lots in the ele∣ction of pastors. Hence the name 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Clergie. No shadow of a male-Church here.

Page  506Tortullian shews, that in Church-meetings there were exhor∣tations, * corrections, and divine censures—and the whole Elders that are approved, rule in the meeting. Elders (faith he) who have obtained that honour, not by price, but by a good testi∣mony. Now this being done by the whole congregation meet∣ing for publick prayer, could not be done by the people, and by women, except consenting: for Tertullian saith, De veland. virg. Non permittitur muliri in Ecclesia loqui: sed nec docere nec tingere. Eusebius l. 6. c. 8. when Origen was ordained Bi∣shop, saith, and Cyprian l. 2. Epist. 10. ad Conl. All the nearest Bishops of the Province came, and laid hands on him prasente plebe, saith Cyprian.

The fourth Age sheweth what is true and false Antiquity: and whereas there was in the beginning thereof a sad desolation through the persecution of Dioclesian; so also there came a change in a glorious manner, most suddenly, by Constantine. Eusebius l. 3. de vita Constan. mentions the Synod of Nice, fa∣mous like the meeting of the Church in the Pentecost, Acts 2. as the Magdeburgenses, cen. 4. c. 2. p, 2. say. Now since the Gospel was spread through Europe, Africa and Asia, as Euse∣bius and as Akanafius, from the East to the West: And the Magdeburgenses cite Iulius Firmicus Maternus, Optat. Milevi∣tanus, Basilius, teaching, that the Church of Christ was all the * world over where the Sun did shine, East and West. South and North. Let the impartial Reader judge, if it have a shadow of Reason, that the Churches who sent Commissioners to this fa∣mous Synod of Nice, were onely congregational Churches.

1. The Magdeburgenses set down numerous and famous * Churches in Asia, in Palestine, Caesrea, Tyrus and Zidon, in Gaza. Arabia, Syria, Mesopotamia, Pamphilia, Cilicia, Lydia, Phrygia, Bihynia, Hllespontus, Galatia, Paphlagnia, Cappa∣docia, Page  407 Persia, &c. in the Isles in Europe, in Africa, most of all sent messengers to this Synod: What an Assembly must this be, if petty congregational Churches sent Commissioners? What house could contain them? There was

2. A catalogue of Bishops sent to this Synod, before this called Overseers, and Prapositi by Cyprian, not pastors simply of one single congregation.

3. Eusebius tells of Provincial Synods, and so of Provincial * Churches, which must have sent Commissioners. There was a Synod of Tyrus under Constantint, a Synod in Slucia. See the Magdeburgenses.

4. The number of those added to the Church, saith, that they could not onely be congregational Churches; Theodoret saith, that Constantine writes to Eusebius Nicomediensis, there * was a great multitude in the Town named from himself added to the Church, so that they behoved to be divided into many Churches: and who would deny this to be a Presbyterial Church? Nicephorus saith, when Constantine was baptized, more than twelve thousand men, beside women and children, were baptized, and many added to the Church. Its apparent, the very nature of Christian Religion, requires congregational and synodical meetings. Galerius Maximinus having given toleration for Christian Religion, though he condemned the Religion it self, incontinent in every city congragations are erected, and Synods or Presbyteries kept, say the Magdeburgeu∣ses from Eusbius.

Donatists excuse their separation from the Church, because in * communion of the Sacraments mali maculent bonos. August.

For Ordination and Election of Ministers by the votes and laying on the hands of the pastors, and consent of the people, without the device of a male-congregation destitute of officers: See the Magdeburgenses, cent. 4. c. 6. p. 244, 245. who cite Bosil. Page  508 Epist. 58. ad Mlt. Th••dor. l. 1. c. 19. the Epistle of the Ni∣••n Councel to them of Alexandria, as Th••doret cites it, l. 4. c. 10. the History of Ambro••us Mediol•…, as Secrates hath it, l. 4. c. 30, &c. saith the same. See Magdiburg. vol. 3. cant. 11. c. 6. p. 140. See vol. 3. cent. 13. c. 6. p. 260, 261.

The Magdeburgenses say, the reason of multiplying of Offi∣cers, Bishops, Presbyters, Deacons, Lectors, Canons, Exorcists, * &c. was in the end of the third Age, Ecclesiastick congrega∣tions began to be multiplied.

2. Metropolitans, Archbishops, Bishops, Deacons, Arch∣deacons in Rome, in Constantinople, as Sozomen l. 4. c. 2. in Ale∣xandria, as Sozomen l. 7. c. 19. and Optat. Milvitanus l. 1. contr. Parmen. and the 14 Canon of the Councel of Neocaesarea or∣dains, that in amplu civitatibus, in large cities there should not be above seven Deacons. Now sense and reason would say, there could be no ground of appointing such a number of offi∣cers, if Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria had been all one single congregation, meeting 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, within the same walls, and not a large Presbyterial Church.

3. They must be great strangers to Rome, who know not that there were at Rome many Churches and Meeting-places conse∣crated to the Saints; and that the Synod of Nice, as Ruffins and Athanasius say, ordained the Bishop of Rome to care for the Churches of the Suburbs, as the Magdeburgenses say: yet all was called the Church of Rome. See the Magd. burgenses vol. 2. cent. 5. c. 6. p. 357, 358.

Of the Churches mixture of wheat and chaff, see Agustins* and Prosper, who say, Evil men, if they infect not, must be to∣lerated, and the good not separated from, because of the evil Page  509 known to be such: Otherwise Donatus and his never taught men to separate from latent hypocrites, which are seeming and visible Saints; as also they must be tolerated, that they may be converted.

Augustine asserts a catholick integral visible Church in Ps. 56. Corpus autem ejus non est ista a•• illa Ecclsa, sed tt orbe diffu∣sa—for the whole Church, saith he, is made up of all the faith∣ful having Christ for their Head. For the ordination of pastors * by the laying on of hands of the Ministers and consent of the people, se the Magdeburgenses. So was Chrysosto••• ordained consnsu cleri & populi Constantinopolitani, as Socrates l. 6. c. 2. and Sozomen l. 8. c. 2. witness. So saith Augustine, that not the Church of Carthage onely, and of Numidia, sed propinquio∣res Episcopi, the neare•• Bishops and Pastors laid on hands. See the Magdeburg. For association of Churches, see the Magdeb. vol. 2. cont. 5. c. 7. p. 417, 418. 422, 493.

The Magdeburgenses tell us of famous and celebrious Chur∣ches * in the sixth Age in Asi••, Africa and Europe, in renowned c••ies, which had eminent Bishops in them, and new Churches buil espeially. Iustiman the Emperour built in Constantinople in Thrai the noble Church of Sophia, incomparable for ma∣gnificence to any in-the world, saith Eagrus and Nicephorus: And where there be many places of meeting for Worship in great cities, Constantinopie, Autich, the Church of that city must be Presbytrial, not congregational to sounder Antiquity. That the Church of Rome could not meet congregationally, the multitude of Churches dedicated to Saints do evince. Magdeb. cent. 6. c. 6 p. 181. Quod saepe in publicis locis Romae Christiani ad sacra peragenda convenerint, estantur innuera lla delubra 〈◊〉 Sabellico expressa, ut Templum Cosinae & Damiani, Saturnii: Vaticanum, Batjonae, Sopiae, Euphemiae Marcelli, Pancratii. mention••• facit Gregorius Papa Templorum Petri & P••li Romae, Agathae—Caesaii Martyris, & Juli, Mariae, Agnetis, & Foelicitatis, Stephani, Andreae, &c.

Page  510 Its true, many of these Churches (say the Magdeburg••ses) were built not so much for the Worship of God, as for Super∣•…: * yet no sober man can say, the Christian in Ro•• could m••• in one congregation, but that many Churches were needful.

See for association of Churches the Magdeburg••s. That the visible Church is made up of good and evil, see the Magdeburg, who ie Hayme and others; though in this and former ages gross corruptions daily grew. So the Magdeburg••ses vol. 3. cent. 10. cite Thophylact for the same: and Vol. 3. cnt. 12. c. 7. p. 457, 458. and cent. 13. c. 4. p. 185.

The Magdeburgenses ascribe the power of the Keys, Matth.* 16. to Peter, representing Pastors; and for this they cite Theophylactus, and Radulphus, Ausbertus. Aus•…s gives so the power of binding and loosing to the Priests, E•••. in Evang. as excommunication shou••〈◊〉 by the mouth of the Church, the Priest: for when the Priest excommunicates, the whole body of the Church acts in him. See the Magdeb. cent. 11. Ausel. in Mat. 18. Qur•• re••seritis] nec 〈◊〉 Apostolis, sed ••nibus Episco∣pis, Pr•…, haec potest as conces•• est. See the Magdeburgnses citing the Schoolmen, Thomas Aqu••••, B•…tura, Albertus to this purpose also.

For the notes of the true Church in the dark midnight of Popery, Petr. Waldensis in France, ann. 1160. taught the same with us: and yet Mr. Hooker refusing these marks, tells us, Truth is the Daughter of Time, and excellently doth the twelfeth Age agree with the first Age. Of Pet. Waldensis were the Waldenses, the sincere part of the Church giving e∣stimony against the daily growing corruptions of Rome.

Page  511 The Magdeburgenses in their Preface to the third volume of their History, Cent. 10. Sunt autem not〈◊〉 so prop••••〈◊〉 ga∣manae*Ecclisiae Christi, verbi Dei praedicat••〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Sacramentoru usus iustitut•• à Christo 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 studio conjunctus. These men knew true Antiquity well. H•…. Wlif, Ierome of Prague, and the renowned Martyrs of Christ sealed with their blood the same truth, as Antiquity witnesses of them. Mr. 〈◊〉. calleth the preaching of the Gospel a com∣mon adjunct of the Church. But we appeal to Antiquity (though the Scripture be above all) for a warrant of their Church.

aTertullian offend at such who say the Apostles were ig∣norant of any thing, to whom the Lord gave the Keyes to open and 〈◊〉 Heaven, which secres the people know not: and the A∣postles d that in opening and sutting heaven, which only God can*〈◊〉.cChrist ga•• the K•… (& per um Ecclesiae) to Peter, and by him to the Chrch.

Epiphni••d ass••••〈◊〉 Universal Integral Church, though the tongues be divers: and God keeps carefully his Church spread through all the World, as dwelling in one and the same house: e〈◊〉, its not in Prygia, Cilicia, and Paphylia onely, but all the World over. And he cites that of Christ: this cannot be a congregation.

fLactantius is for our notes of the Church, not for Mr. H. the Phyges, Novatiani, Valentiniani, Marcionitae, Authae piani, aut Ariani, leave off to be Christians: that then is the only catholick Church, which retains the true worship of God. Eu∣sebius Pamphil.g The Church is diffused all the world over, East and West, South and North. He expounds Matth. 16. the Church upon the Rock, to be the Church from the East to Page  512 the We••, which fills all the World. De prop. Evangil. l. 1. c. 3. pag. 8. then its not one single congregation.

Gregorius Nuzianznus Orat. 8. de 〈◊〉 partis, The peo∣ple give their consent only to ordain the Bishop. And this ele∣ction of Bishops, ibid. page 480. i to be committed to the cleaner part of the people, to sacred Ministers, and to our Na∣zarites, and not to the foolish and rash common people, tum eximia ac purissimae pputi parti, hoc est, & 〈◊〉 Ministris & nostris Nazar••, quibus vil sol vel potssimum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 illes commitis oprtebat (sic enim nun•… Ecclesia 〈◊〉 esse) ac non 〈◊〉 qui opibus & potentia 〈◊〉 (magistratees notat) a•• stultae ac teerariae plebi. Its clear that Nazianzen gives a pre∣sidency to Teachers over the Church, when h he forbids that young men, before they have hair on their face, be 〈◊〉 to reach old men; and they object (saith he) Daniel: but that which rarely falls out, is no law to the Church, one Swallow makes not the Spring: but election here by Nazianzen is put for the whole calling of men to the Ministry. The Church of Byzan∣•…〈◊〉 commended for discipline by Nazianzen. See in the Church a Councel of Prebyters decored with age and wisedom, an high Senate which they all honoured: nor did he in a grave Synod dec•… the praises of the discipline of a single congre∣gation.

iNazianzen hath a savory discourse of the order and gifts, and variety of members in Christs body, and cites 1 Cor. 12. 28. not of a single congregation.

For 1. he saith we are all one body in Christ:

2. He saith there are in the Church Apostles, Prophets, &c. the eye walks not, but is the Captain; nor does the foot fee, but walk, and move from place to place; nor doth the tongue receive sounds, that is proper to the hearing; nor doth the ongue speak, but the tongue, &c.

And 3. he speaks of a number of Prophets, of which two Page  513 or three prophesie by course, and one Interprets.

Basilius Magnus Nicopolitanis Presbyteris Epist. 10. Tom. ult, 〈◊〉 ex albo vest•• defecis, & 〈◊〉 unus & alter conseculus est—〈◊〉 adhu corpus vestrum est per Die gratiam 〈◊〉, Basil. ci••bus Nicopolitanis disp. Epist. 13. Tom. ult. Dispen∣sationes Ecclesiasticae fiunt quidem per 〈◊〉 quibus est illorum cu∣ra conoredita, verum à plobe confirantur.

Basil. Epist. 18. vol. ult. Presbyteris Atiochiae solicitudinem illam quam 〈◊〉 Ecclistis D•…, ex 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉, qui vobis ttius 〈◊〉〈◊〉 charitate & af∣fectum exponi. At the first reading a Presbyterial body over divers congregations appears.

Theophylact.kEvery one of us is the Church, and the House of God, and if we continue in the faith confessed, the gates of hell shall not prevail against us, that is, sins.

2. The power of binding and loosing he expounds to be the power of remitting of sins, which Peter hath, and such as have the office 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, of an Oversee. lTheoph. If thy Brother offend thee] thy Brother only of the same congrega∣tion whereof thou act a member, saith Mr. H••ker. Nay, saith Theophylact,〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, m whose sin ye remit]. See (saith he) the Dignity of the Priests: for it God who forgives sins, but they are honoured as God.n On these words, we judge those th•• are within.] Are not 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Christians judged by us? but a more terrible Iudge shall judge those that are with••.

oIsidorus Hispalens. Episcopus, The Church is called Catho∣lick. quasi 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, for it is not limited to some countreys, as the Conventioles of Hereticks, but spread all the world over. The con•…tions of Hereticks are only in ordinary, not catholick, but very rarely. See him (p) elsewhere.

What saith these called the Canons of the Apostles deserve, I dispute not; they m allow no Bishop to he ordained with∣out two or three Bishops.

The n Bishops of the whole earth, that is, from all Chur∣ches (not congregations, that was impossible) were at the first Nicns Councel 318. in number subscribed.

o A Bishop should be ordained by all the Bishops of the Province; if that be heard by three, the rest consenting by their Letters.

Page  514p More then two hundred Bishops in the Councel of E∣phesus condemned Nestorius.

Among the Articles of Ioh. Wiclif this is the seventh, If a man be duely contrite for sin, any farther confession is need∣less. * So our Brethren and Mr. H. his judicial confession before the Church is as superfluous and scriptureless, before they be admitted and engaged members of the visible Church.

On the other extremity they faile, who condemn Wiclif his eleventh Article, that a Minister ought not to Excommu∣nicate, except he know first the man r to be excommunicate of God.

And Ioh. Hush was unjustly condemned for desending Wic∣lif in these and the s like.

Nor was it a damnable error that Ioh. Hush held, that there is but one Universal holy Church, as there is but one certaine number of men predestinate to glory. Mr. H••ker his new ca∣tholick abstract congregation divided in so many thousand lit∣tle catholick Churches is too near to the Papists in this.

Iohn Hushu before his Judges and accusers, often profes∣sed that Christ limited not Jurisdiction and ruling of the Church militant to Peter only, but gave it to all the Apostles and true Pastors; but never to Mr. H. his male Church. *

xTheodores judgeth the Church builded upon the Rock. Mat. 16. not to be a single visible congregation with Mr. H. which certainly perisheth; but the company of chosen believers builded upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, whoe corner-stone is Christ. And though this be one catholick Church divided all the world over, habet domos àse invicem di∣visas, and is y one body, of which Christ is head, one com∣pany, one City; which cannot be said of one single congrega∣tion. And z 1 Cor. 12. ye are all the body of Christ] not ye onely, but all they who through the whole world believe. Theodo∣ret on 1 Tim. 5. shews that there is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, praefectura, a power of receiving witnesses against Elders, and of examining them before they be ordained.

Page  515 This bAmbrosius shews, making Jews and Gentiles one bo∣dy having one Baptism, and the Apostles caput Ecclesiae, the chief members of the Church. As also c the Doctors in the Church of Corinth dissembled or carelesly censured the Incest, as Eli the Priest did his Sons. Then there was a Presbytery to cast him out. See if dAmbrose gives the Keyes to Peter, yes, to Peter and Paul only, and to the Rulers; onely he saith, inter ipsos (Petrum & Paulum) quis 〈◊〉 proponatur incertum. The same (saith eEphraim Syrus) of these two.

fGregorius Nyssenus Episcop. frater Basilii Magni, All we who are joyned to one body of Christ by faith, make one body—and that he excludes not, but includes the visible body, he proves from 1 Cor. 12. ye are the body of Christ: and Eph. 4. the body gathe∣red by the Ministry of Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, &c. which shall be brought to the unity of faith. So g Christ is the rock of life, and the rock of faith to the Church builded upon the rock (which admits not Magns, who is not builded upon the rock; as Ioh. Hush refused a wicked Pope to be head, or mem∣ber of the Church so built.)

hHieronymus clearly expounds the ports of Hell to be Viia atque peccata (rer) vl certè 〈◊〉 Doctrinas, sins or herefies, which is strong for the invisibe Church of true belie∣vers; not for the visible congregation, of which Iudas and Magus are members to Mr. Hooker, and were never built on the rock. And the Keyes are given to Bishops and Presby∣ters, who may not under that pretence condemn the innocent. And Hieron. Com. Mat. 18. 18. Si Ecclesiam non audierit, quae∣cunque alligaveritis] potestatem tribuit Apostolis, ut sciant qui à 〈◊〉 condenantur, humanam sententiam divinâ roborari, & quodcunque ligatum fuerit in terra, ligari pariter & in coel. See Hieronym. Com. ad Eph. 4. 11. who expounds the body of Christ of the Church, until we all meet, all the company of believers. And iHeron. Let the Bishops hear who have Page  516 power of ordaining Elders in every City. Nor need our Bre∣thren suspect Hieronymus to be prelatical, his judgment is known to be contrary thereunto. See Hieron. in Tit. 1. 5. See him for the present purpose in Opuscul. in Prover. c. 7 p. 217. See Ruf∣finusk for the marks of the true Church, saying with us, That pure doctrine declares a pure Church: and so the Churches which Marcion, Valentinus, Ebion and Manicheus and other he∣reticks gather, are not true Churches.

lChrysostom, If the ports of hell prevail not against the Church, far less shall they prevail against me: therefore thou shouldst not be troubled (Peter) when thou hearest that I shall be cru∣cified. Then by the mind of Chrysostom, Christ speaks here for the comfort of Peter, as a sound believer, and not as an exter∣nal visible member of a congregation, as saith Mr. H. And see m here a fisher-man is made Pastor and Head of the whole Church. Then it could not have been the mind of Chrysostom, that such a headship (whatever it was, or whether peculiar to Peter or no, is another question) was given to the people. nChrysostom expounds, tell the Church, tell the Rulers. oChrysostom, As a King sending Iudges, gives them power to cast guilty men in prison, and to deliver them; so sends Christ his Disciples, and arms them with authority. Will any dream that Chrysostom judgeth that Christ gave this power to the people?

pChrysostom saith, the Apostles take to themselves to de∣termine the number of the Deacons, and to ordain them; but they give the election of the men to the people, lest the Apo∣stles should seem partial, and to favour men. Mr. H. saith the contrary.

Valiant qAthanasius makes the Church builded upon a Rock, to be a strong, an unshaken promise; and that the Church is an inseparable thing, although hell it self were moved, and these that are in hell, and the Princes of darkness should rage: Sure this great Witness never meant any such invincible pro∣mise Page  517 to an external visible congregation, and its members Iudas and Simon Magus. Peter himself, who received the heavenly Keyes, sinned (saith rAthanasius.)

sHilarius commends the Rock which breaks the ports of Hell t and sayes that men are loosed or bound in Heaven, by condition of the Apostles sentence: then doth he not think it the sentence of the people. Let the learned judge of the anci∣ent writings of Clemens: that Epistle of his to the Corinthians, read sometimes in the ancient Church, will have Mr. Hookers visible converts only Church-matter, though he writ to them as the true Church, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: Yet he writes of a sad change of their profession, such as was in Israel, when they made defection to Idolatry, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. It were hard to say such a company are all visible converts.

2. Clemens seems to deny to the people power of comman∣ding, and to say that the preachers ordained Bishops and Dea∣cons, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.

Cyrillus Alexandrinus upon these words, I will give thee the Keyes] he gifted universally all the Apostles with power over unclean spirits: then neither the one power nor the other gave he to the people. Cyril. Alexan. in Isa. l. 5. pag. 393. & Cyrillus tom. 2, dialog de Trinitat. l. 4. pag. 278. Peter is so called from his most firm and unshaken faith, in qua Ecclesia Christi ita fun∣data ac firmatt esst, ut non laberetur & esser expugnabilis in∣ferorum portis, aeter•…um manens: on which the Church is built, that it cannot fail, but remains for ever, cannot be overcome by the ports of hell. Cyrillus well knew single congregations are not invincible; and he speaks of such a saving faith, as Ma∣gusPage  518 cannot have, it came from the Father, teaching ex ineffa∣bili eruditione superna, &c. See what Apostolick dignity he gave to them, which he gave not to the people. Cyrill. in Ioan. l. 12. c. 56. page 699, 700. Cyrill. on Isa. 5. c. 60 page 383.

August. tom. 10. Dom. 11 post Epiphan. sect. 2 page. 235. Ter∣tius modus est, quomodo totus Christus secundum Ecclesiam, id est, caput & corpus praedicetur etenim caput & corpus unus Christus, non quia sine corpore non est integer, sed quia & nobiscum integer esse dignatus est—membra Christi & corpus sumus omnes simul: non qui hoc loco sumus tantum, fed & per universam terram: nee qui tantum hoc tempore, sed qui dicam ex Abel•…sto usque in finem seculi, quandiu generant & generantur hominis.

It were needless to prove a visible integral catholick Church all the world over, not in Asia onely from Augustine.

2. Or to prove a mixture of tares and wheat, of good and bad in the visible Church; and that they are not visible con∣verts that are members of the visible Church.

3. How far in the communion of the Church and of Sacra∣ments mali maculent & contaminent bonos, see August-cont.*Epist. Parmen. Mr. H. deviseth a way for this: Its referred to a mans free choice, without any compulsion of any, to what con∣gregation he shall joyn himself or not: and though the doctrine and ordinances be most pure, yet he may keep within himself the causes of his not joyning, thinking such are profane, and so there is little or nothing of Christs presence in this Church. But the formal cause of joyning to a Church in which one should * reside, is not the holiness of members, but the soundness and pu∣rity of the Ordinances; and if the Gospel be there, he is obli∣ged to profess it, as he is to confess, and not deny Christ before men. 2. If any of Israel goodwell in another city or town, where another Priest shall teach, is it in his choice to be taught by that Priest or not? or was there no freedome under the Old Testament, but there is freedome now? Prove this difference from the Word.

Page  519 4. The Don•… in that contr. P•…. l. 11. c. 14. A wicked Minister can no more convert, quam vivificare quenquam mor∣tuus potest, than a dead man can give life. So our Brethren, they are not fit to be edifying matter, who shall destroy the Church.

5. August. lib. Retract. 2. c. 18. Ubicunqus autem in 〈◊〉 li∣bris commemoravi Ecclesiam non habentem maculam a•… rugam, non sic accipiendum, quasi jam s••, sed qu praeparatur ut sis. Au∣gustine owns no Church, that in the esteem of Saints is without spot or wrinkle.

6. Augustine cond•… the Donatist, Aug. contr. liter. Petil. Episc. Donatist, l. 1. 〈◊〉 1. they were broken off from the ca∣tholick Church, ab or bis 〈◊〉 sancta communiono; that was, sure, no congregation, for they set up congregations of their own: but they said, With themselves onely was the true Church.

7. Petilianus said, What hath righteousness to do with un∣righteousness? Augustine saith, Its not righteousness taking * part with unrighteousness, Si Judas & Petruparitor sacramenta communi•….

8. Petilianus applied the Scriptures that are spoken of real * Saints, as Psal. 1. Blessed is the man; and Psal. 23. The Lord is my shepherd, he leadeth me, &c. to their onely members of se∣parated Churches. So do our Brethreu. Mr. Cotton, Mr. Hooker. So Mr. Robinson. Augustine answers, These words belong not to baptized Simon Magus—They are not the words of the tares, of the chaff, but of the wheat.

9. Petilian said, the Catholicks admitted all to be just, and members of the Church qui verba legis noverunt, that knew words of Scripture; and Satan knew Scripture: The same Mr. H. objects to us. See Aug.a

10. The question between us and the Donatists is, Where is this Body (visible, for it were madness to think the question was touching the invisible Church, where it is) Where the Church is? What then shall we do? shall we seek it in our words, or in the words of her Head the Lord Iesus? See bAugust. Its known Page  520Augustine acknowledgeth in all these Writings a Catholick Church from Sea to Sea, to which men should joyn themselves as to the visible society of Christ.

11. Our Brethren will have none to be baptized, except they be baptized into a particular congregation. And cAug. condemns the Donatists, who will have it no baptism which is administred without the Church.

12. Our Brethren will have so many conditions of the visi∣ble Church.

  • 1. That the matter be fit, visible Saints.
  • 2. That the form be a Church covenant.
  • 3. That they meet in one place, &c. Augustined fol∣lowing the Word, saith, All of Jews and Gentiles in covenant are the visible Church.

13. This or that congregation or believer may fall off the Rock, defecit ex omnibus Gentibus Christiana Religio, excepta parte Donati, except some following Donatus, and some in Ame∣rica, aut alibi. See Aug.e

14. They who (saith fAugustine) teach, That the Church which was to take its beginning at Jerusalem, is not that visible City, but by a figure is the whole Church that is in heaven and earth, may say that also is spoken by a figure, It behoved Christ to die, and to rise the third day. Then Augustine thinks the Church of Jews and Gentiles all the world over to be one visible City, against the Donatists and our Brethren.

Catholicks (as Augustg teacheth) said, that it was the minde of Cyprian, that the tares were in the Church, not lurk∣ing, but seen: to which the Donatists durst answer nothing, they were so moved with the authority of Cyprian.

Cyprianh clearly saith, the Lord gave first to Peter, upon whom he built his Church (nor did he then build the Church upon the confessing Church) power to binde and loose—as also he saith, after the Resurrection, to the Apostles, As my Father sent me, so send I you. To Cyprian then one place in Ioh. 20. Page  521 expounds Matth 16. Now Cyprian never thought that Christ sent the people as the Father sent him: And Cyprianisoli Petro dixit, Quaecun{que} ligavers—Quando in solos Apostolos in∣su•••vit Christus dicens, accipite Spiritum Sanctum: si eujus re∣miseritis pocatakCyprian proves, that the Church is one, and Baptism one; What talk they then of multiplied visible con∣gregations, and multiplied Baptisms? And see lCyprian, Et quamvis Apostolis omnibus post resurrectionem dicat, Sicut ifit me pater, &c. tamen ut unitatem manifestaret, unam Cathedram (Petri) constituit, &c.mCyprian expounding Matth. 16. 18. And I say to thee, Thou ••t Peter, &c. the Church is founded upon the Bishops, and every act of the Church by these overseers is guided; and therefore the lapsi should not have peace, but by satisfying Church-discipline.