A survey of the Survey of that summe of church-discipline penned by Mr. Thomas Hooker ... wherein the way of the churches of N. England is now re-examined ...
Rutherford, Samuel, 1600?-1661.
highlight hits: on | off
Page  1


A Survey of the Survey of the Reve∣rend and Godly Servant of GOD, Mr. THOMAS HOOKER.

The company of Beleevers without Rulers is no Politick Church; having power of Ordination: What Locall Habi∣tation doth to make Church-members.

Passing what this Learned and Godly man hath said, Chap. 1 Part 1. (in which some things may be noted as Escapes) I come to Chap. 2.

CHAP. 2. PART 1. c. 11.

M. Hook. THe visible Church is the adequate subject of our Inquirie.

Answ. The principall subject is Mr. Hooker his visible Church, yea it is too narrow: the adequate it is not, for the * visible kingdome of Christ in concre••, as ruled by Christ, includes the elect and true Beleevers, for whose sake are all, officers, word; seales, 1 Cor. 3. 21. 22. 2 Cor. 〈◊〉 15. Eph. 1. 22.

M. H. The Church in her constitution is considered two wayes: 1. as totum essentiale or homogeneum, or as totum integrale.

In the former notion, The Church as a City without a Mayor, hath right to choose its officers, and becomes totum organicum, when officers are in it. Ames. Medu. lib. 1. cap. 33. 18.

Page  2Ans. 1. The argument must so runne, *

What ever a City without a Mayor may doe, that may a compa∣ny of Beleevers so combined without officers do.

Ans. Nothing more false: but of this hereaster. A civill free Corporation may appoint this or that Government, 2. May li∣mit the Mayor to one yeere to so much power, no more: but M Hooker his new Church cannot doe any of these. Amesius there saith not a company of Believers without Officers is a Politick Church. The Scripture in Old or New Testament ne∣ver said it.

M. H. As for the manner: Parish precincts, or dwelling within the bounds of a parish cannot make an ecclesiastick right to Church∣membership:*For 1. it is but a Civill right that a man hath to his*house; 2. Excommunication cutteth a man off from the Church, as if he were an heathen, but not from his house, which is his by birth or purchase: 3. Yea so Papists, Turks, Dogs, should be Church members, to whom Christ hath denyed all right. Revel. 21. 27.

Ans. We grant Parish dwelling simply in a Professor gives not right to be a member of the City of God, but Parish dwel∣ling tali modo is a necessary condition, without which they cannot be fixed members of that congragation, to meet in one house, suppone after supper, as Act 207. 1 Cor. 11. 20, 21, 22. and therefore we condemnn our brethren, who failing on the other extreme, will have persons residing in Old England to be marryed members to one onely Cong•…on v•…ble in New England, and to no other visible Church•…〈◊〉, and deny all Church-communion of the Catholick 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to all vi∣sible Professors, who are sojourners, 〈◊〉〈◊〉•••range ex∣communicating of visible Professors, 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 residence; for shall they watch over one another, as they are obliged, by a Church oath, suppose their Church be beyond the Line, and they on this side of it? 3. This full well shall gratifie Anabap∣tists, who will have it no mercie, that infants are born in Zion, or in any Beleevers house, as the Scripture saith it is, Gen. 17. 12. Psal 87. 5. 1 Cor. 7. 14. Rom. 11. 16. the reasons are not so sure, for birth does it not, but to be born of such Parents at Corinth, makes over to the Infants of Believers, a to be Page  3 born in Zion, to be born in beleeving Abrahams house, Gen. 17. 12. Psal. 87. 7. a right to be members of that Church, else upon what right shall they be baptized? As for the place, Rev. 21. 27. Pignetus; Pareus, Piscator, Diodati, English Annotators, Bullin∣ger Nepar, expone the place of the Church in heaven: Mar∣lorat and many others of the invisible Church, and the Text ex∣cludes all from that Church but such as are written in the book of life, and so to me it is unpertinent to the purpose, and not concludent.


Of visible Saints. 2. M. H. reasons to prove that his visible Saints are only members of the visible Church, are dis∣cussed.

MAster Hooker first states the question, then brings reasons * to prove such visible Saints to be the onely matter of the visible Church. Saints in charity are such in practise and professi∣on (if we look at them in course, by experience or report) as they savour so much, as they had been with Iesus. From all which so much as rational charity directed by rule from k Word, a man cannot but conclude, but there may be some seeds of some spirituall work of God in the soule.

Answ. If any one word of God were given to prove what * must be proven, it were good: 1. That Magus, all the three thousand, Act. 2. all the multitude baptized by Iohn, Mat 3. Mark 1. 5. Luk 4. were to Philip, to the Church of Saaria, to godly Iohn Bapist, to the twelve Apostles, such in practice and profession, as they savoured so much as they had been with Iesus; so heavenly a savourinesse is not, in one jot, holden out in the Word, the Baptist looks on them as vpers, and was it fit to omit the styles of Saints, justified, sanctfied? 2. The Tryers most have experience of their practice and profession: this shall take dayes and moneths to eat (as they say) much salt with them, the Apostles, that same day in few houres time, baptized them, Act. 2. Who can believe that the huge multitude lived Page  4 on Locusts and Wild Honey in the Wildernesse, untill Iohn should experimentally find a generation of vipers moulded into a new frame to savour of the things of the spirit? 3. There is no∣thing here of 1. Tryers and Judges: 2. Nothing of a Judica∣ure: 3. Nothing of Letters, Witnesses, Testimonies from the Churches: 4. Nothing of the rule of the Word compared with their habituall conversation (which must take a tract of dayes) 5. Nothing of a sentence admitting some for their spirituall sa∣vourinesse, rejecting others for that bad smell, and denying them Church-fellowship untill they be better tryed: all conje∣ctures.

1. The conclusion is not any thing but (a may be) and that may beare a (may not be) and if it were proven by the Word, that Professors right to the Covenant of God, to the Word, Promises, Seales, depended upon mens rational judgement of Charity, it might quiet the conscience: But a shall not the Lord be a God to a people, except the people themselves judge in the judgement of charity, that the people so consederate, sa∣vour all of them, as if they had been with Iesus? and except they from experience can conclude, there may be some seeds of some spirituall work of God in the souls of all these people? Ah, the Lord then cannot say to a nation and a society, I am your God, while first he asks the Churches leave.

M H. 1. Reason. The members of Christs Body are fit alore to be members of a true Church, because that is the body of Christ.* 1 Cor. 12. 12. Ephes. 4. 12, 13.

But onely visible Saints, who according to the rules of reasona∣ble charity may be conceived to have some speciall good in them, are onely members of Christs Body:

For to have a member, which neither doth, nor ever did receive any power or virtuall impression, in the kind of it, from the head is not onely against reason but against that reference and correspon∣dence, which the members have to the head. Now visible Saints onely, according to the former explication can be said, by the rules of reasonable charity, to have some virtuall influence of some spi∣rituall operation from Christ as a head: therefore such onely are members of a Church.

Answ. No man seems more to study to darken the matter, Page  5 then the reverend arguer. 1. He omits all along the word (visible) which is mainly in question. 2. He himself is forced to distinguish a two fold headship of Christ; for Christ is head * to the visible Church, either politick, according to the politick government and guidance he lends to it, or according to the influ∣ence of saving grace & life: the members of Christs body accord∣ing to the politick external government are fit alone to be mem∣bers of a true Church visible, or truly visible; such as Magus,*Demas, and many gifted men are, the proposition is true and granted. But onely visible Saints, who according to the rules of reasonable charity may be conceived to have some special good, or which is all one, to be reall believers, are onely members of Christs body, according to politick and external government, the assumption is false, and never proved; a meer begging of the question, for not onely such as are conceived in charity to to be real converts, such as Magus, Iudas, &c. but al∣so Peter, Iohn, and such as prosess subjection to the Gospel; and withall do really believe, 〈◊〉 members of the true visible Church, and the Lords visible confederates, whether they be*conceived to have some special good of conversion, and saving grace in them; or not; nor does the formality of a visible mem∣ber, or a visible confederate depend upon the judgment of men: And it is most false (which is said in the probation) that onely conceived and so judged visible Saints have the politick influ∣ence of some spiritual operation from Christ the head; for godly professors, whether they be conceived and judged, or not con∣ceived or judged godly professors, have both real and internal in foro Dei, and also external and ecclesiastick right to the or∣d•…ces of Christ, should all the world say the contrary. And by our brethrens nay, workers of iniquity, and these that are never known nor chosen of God, but are exactly glded hypo∣crites, and never receive any power or trial at all in their kind, from their head Christ; as may be proved from Matth. 7. 22, 23. Matth. 22. 11, 1. Matth. 13. 47. 48. Matth. 25. 3. 2 Tim. 3. 3. are visible Saints, not because they are so, but because they are falsely so esteemed by men to be such. Hence 1. our brethrens way makes not a whit a cleaner visible Church then our way. 2. The politick influence of Christ the head Page  6 upon such painted tombs, can be none at all before their mem∣bership. How then can they have virtual influence of some spi∣ritual operation from the head? supposed influence is no influ∣ence at all. And not any of these texs say that the Church, 1 Cor. 12. 12. and Ethes. 4. 12, 13. is not the body of Christ visible, except men conceive it to be his visible body; such new divinity is unknown to Scripture: If the other part of the di∣stinction be applied to the argument, both the propositions shall be false; so the members of Christs body by the influence of saving grace are fit alone to be members of the true visible Church: nothing is more false, for then the true visible Church should be made up of only true and real converts; glad shall Anabaptists and Familists be of this doctrine, and except the propositions be so taken, M. H. but paints us a false Church.

3. The places, 1 Cor. 12. 12. Eph. 4. 12, 13 speak nothing of Mr Hookers single congregation, but of the Catholick visible Church, which shall meet all in the unity of faith, and in which the Lord hath set Apostles, 1 Cor. 12. 28. and 4. 14, 15. and that is not a single congregation.

4. Though the places speak of the visible Church, yet do not these places say that the visible Church as visible, but as the real mystical body of Christ, which shall be glorified with Christ, is called Christ, Ephes. 4. 13. 〈◊〉 Cor. 12. 12, 13. and the body of Christ, by the influence of saving grace.


Other arguments of M. Hookers for the constitution of the Church of his visible Saints.

MAster Hookers two reasons.

These are is to be members of Christs Church that are*subjects of Christs kingdome.

The Church is the visible kingdome, in which Christ reigns by the scepter of his word, ordinances and discipine: he is our king, he is our Law-giver; they, who are in professed rebellion, are tray∣tors, Page  7 not subjects, the members of the body are under the motion and guidance of the head; Wolves are contrary to it. But visible Saints, as formerly described, are onely subjects of this kingdome. Christ is the king of Saints, not of Dunkards, Atheists, they alone Saints) proclaim subjection in their practice.

Answ. The terme (onely) is wanting in the proposition, which is in the assumption and conclusion, contrary to right Logick.

2. These are fit to be members of Christs Church visible) that are subjects (by an influence of grace, to wit, from their head and king calling effectually, Acts 15. 14, 15. Isai. 55. 4. 5. and giving them repentance and forgiveness of sins, Acts 5. 31.) of the kingdome of Christ, visible or invisible; the proposition is true, but that such visible Saints as Magus and Iudas the traytor (which are the visible Saints M. H. defines *in terminis, part. 1. cap. 2. pag. 15. conclus. 2.) are subjects and onely subjects of this kingdome, as his assumption sayes in express termes, is most false; now that the argument must mean of the subjects of Christs kingdome real, and of mem∣bers by the influence of saving grace from Christ their head and king, I prove from the argument that M. H. brings from Isa. 33 22. for M. H. his visible Saints Magus and Iudas cannot. 〈◊〉 Say, the Lord is our Law-giver, the Lord is our Iudge, the Lord is our king and he will save us; if Sorcerers and Traytors should say so they should lie. Isaiah speaks of real converts and the true Sion, whose stakes and cords shall never be removed, so as the gates of hell (saith Marlorat on the place) shall not prevail against them. He speaketh (as yet saith Pisca∣tor) to the godly Iews; so that (saith Calvin) God is in the miast of her; therefore she shall not be moved: for (saith Musculus) my sheep shall no man pluck out of my hand. 2. He speaketh of these (not of such as Iudas and Magus) who shall be prote∣cted and saved by the Lord, vers. 21, 22. he speaks of the true Church which acknowledges God her Law giver and King so Calvin; the Church (saith Bullinger) is so armed with the Page  8 grace of God, that she yields not to evils, nor is broken, but re∣mains ever sure. 3. He speaks of that kingdome and people, whose inhabitants shall not say, I am sick, the people that dwell*therein, their iniquity shall be forgiven them, vers. 24. onely the citizens of the Church (saith Calvin) are adorned with this priviledge, pardon of sins; and it pertaines (saith Gualter) to the Church onely and h•…r citizens; because (saith Luther) the gdly people hath a God gracious, therefore their sins are forgiven. So Buinger, Oecolampadius, Diodati, English Divine, Zwing∣lius, and the popish interpreters, Carthusianus, Vatablus, Arias, Montanur, Corn. à Lipide, Gasp. Sanlius, Lyranus, never man before pious M. Hooker, expoun•…d the place of such vi∣sible Saints, as have room in this house, to wit, Witches and Traytors. 2. To Sin a single congregation, as if the gates of hell could not prevail against such cypers: And 3. he must not be Kng and Law-giver (by this way) to godly visible be∣lievers, when their congregation is broken, dissipated by perse∣cution, death of officers, O poor comfort!

But these are fit to be members in Christs Church that are sub∣jects in Christs kingd me, by influence of politick guidance and common gifts; the proposition in that sense is neither pro∣ved by Isaiah 33. 22. or any reason, but the just contrary conclusion, to wit, that believing and really pardoned Sion, vers 22. 23, 24. must be the persons that make up the king∣dome of Christ: nor does it conclude any thing but contrary to M. H. and the way of the congregation, to wit, Ergo onely such as are visible Saints, according to the politick influence and common gifts, are fit to be members of the visible Church; which is a most false conclusion, for also true believers sincerely pro∣fessing the faith, and who are subjects of Christ according to the influence of saving grace, remission and pardon, v. 22, 23, 24. are fi to be, and really are members of the visible Church, except the argument conclude that onely hypocrites appearing to be believers real, are fit to be members of the visible Church, which is most false by the grant of adversaries, and by the truth it self.

3. M. H. suppresseth the conclusion, and proves the propo∣sition, that reall believers are fit to be members of the mysticalPage  9 and true Church, which neither we, nor he deny; and the terme in rationall charity directed by the word, which should be in both propositions, is neither mentioned in the Argument, not in the Scriptures and Proofs, an unknown way of arguing: and for the assumption,

But visible Saints (that is, Saints in the judgement of charity ruled by the word) are onely subjects of his kingdome.

M. H. never so much as touches, nor labours to prove, nor is there a Scripture in old or new Testament to prove that men cannot be the subjects of Christs visible Kingdome, ex∣cept Apostles, or some visible society declare and passe a judi∣ciall sentence that they are subjects of his visible kingdome. *

4. The probation is fan toto coelo from the conclusion to be proven. They (saith he) who carry themselves in pro∣fessed rebellion, they are traitors, not subjects—and Christ is the King of Saints, not of drunkards, Atheists, &c. Its true, he is no visible king to visible Pagans, nor are they as visible professed Atheists, subjects of his visible kingdome. And who teaches any such thing, and against whom doth M. Hooker dispute? if there be any such members in our Church, not censured, and if obstinate, not casten out, it is the sinfull and abused practise of men, and we professe we desire to be hum∣bled before the Lord that our Ministers and assemblies recei∣ved into our Church, men guilty of perjury drunkennesse, shedding of the blood of the people of God in the defence of the cause and sworne reformation, and that our Ministers and Elders, (ah to many of them) are scandalous, baters and mockers of piety, though our Church was in as fair way of purging the house of God, but now by the present stroke, we are deprived of liberty so to do, but that is nothing con∣cludent * against the right government of Christ, Christ is not the head and king of professed rebells; true, nor is he head and king, in a saving way, of latent rebells, or of your visible Saints, such as Magus and Iudas, ergo he is head and king to none as visible members, but to men onely judged in charity, led by the word to be reall converts, no logick can prove the consequence. But our mind is that Christ is visible head by influence of gifts, ordinances, and externall guidance to all to Page  10 whom he sayes, I will be your God, and who professe subjecti∣on to him, whether the Church shall judge them reall con∣verts, or not judge them so. M. H. arg. 3. pag. 17.

If visible Saints be not members,
Then non-visible Saints may be members.

The latter is absurd, then these who in the judgement of charity are members of the devil, may be conceived members of Christ in the same judgement of charity: charity then must pluck out her*eyes. Answ. 1. here is as good a contradiction, if any good∣nesse there be in these.

If such as are onely visibly Saints, Magus, Iudas, be no members, but rotten ones:

Then such as are non-visibly Saints, such as Peter, Paul, who are really justified and chosen, are fit visible members.

Let M. H. choose him, by his own contradiction which (he saith) divides the breadth of being (though this phancied contradiction divide neither the breadth nor the sixteenth part thereof)

If onely visibly justified and chosen Saints, who are such really, are not visible members:

Then none visibly justified and chosen Saints are fit members visible.

The antecedent is true, and Simon Magus is not a visible member to M. Hooker, by this account; and the latter is con∣tradicent to M. Hookers way: for then one who is to the eye of charity visibly justified and chosen, and that really by M. H. metaphysick, which so divides the breadth of being, as Peter visibly believing, and thereby really blessed, Matth. 16. 16, 17. shall be to the same eye of charity not visibly justified and chosen, but in the miscarrying judgement of charity, shall be no visible member, according to the reality thereof, as Simon Magus; and therefore the definition of a visible member can∣not agree both to Peter visibly believing, and to Magus visi∣bly believing; for there is a reall contradiction between Peter his believing reall, and Magus his believing reall, as good Logick demonstrates: but the latter is absurd, for both Peter and Magus are visible Saints. Let any man help M. H. in his metaphysick here.

Page  11 2. Aristotle long agoe taught us that there is no contra∣diction, * when the contradiction is not 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: now there is a mids betwixt a vi∣sible Saint, as M. Hooker meanes, and a no visible Saint; for his visible Saint is, one who by the Church is judged a reall convert and his no visible Saint is one who is judged no reall convert, example of the former is Peter, or Magus, an exam∣ple of the latter is an unbaptized Pagan so judged: now the mids to us Simon Magus when he is baptized, and we teach that Philip and the Church of Samaria neither passed any judiciall sentence of Magus as a reall convert, nor yet as any non-re∣all convert, and therefore to the eyes of reason and charity (which need not to be plucked out, but have their own use) Magus, when he is admitted a visible member, is neither a re∣all member of the devil, nor a reall member of Christ, but a professor, and the judgement of the Church is abstracted both from the eternall election and the eternall reprobation of Magus, and from the reall conversion or the reall non∣conversion of Magus. And we desire one jot or word of Scrip∣ture where the servants Matth. 22. are thus limitted as M. H. supposeth, invite none to come to the wedding of the Kings sonne but such onely as you judge to be really converted and cloathed with the wedding garment: the parable saith no such thing, but the contrary, verse 9. as many as ye find bid to the marriage; yea v. 14. saith, the inviters have nothing to do to judge whether they be chosen or effectually called, or not chosen or non-effectually called, though one of them in themselves they must be. And when the Maids of wisdome Prov. 9. are sent out, reads M. H. of such a limitted commission, see you call in and admit none within the doores of wisdomes house but onely such as you judge to be the spirituall new born children of wisdome: yea the Maids expresly call in the fooles and the sim∣ple ones to be made wise, v. 4 whereas M. H sup•…oses, they have eaten the dainties of wisdome, before ever they come in a wisdomes doore. And so against common sense in lieu of an argument, he beggs the question; so

If M. Hookers visible Saints onely be not members, prove that there are such visible Saints first: otherwise the Papists may say,

Page  12If our visible Bishop be not the visible head of the Church, Then our non-visible Bishop may be head.

We grant all, and then M. H. bids us yield to what he saith without probation, and tells us it is absurd that his non-visible Saints be members, and so his visible Saints are men in the moone to us, and in reality of truth no such thing.


The place Psal. 50. 16. What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, is discussed, and saith nothing for M. H. his visible members.

MAster Hooker his fourth reason. *

These who are excluded from his covenant, and med∣ling with that as unfit, they are not fit to have Communion with the Church; for to that all the holy things of God do in a speciall manner appertain. Its Gods house, and there all his treasure lyes, the keys of the kingdome are given to them, to them all the oracles, ordinances, and priviledges o belong.

But these who hate to be reformed, and cast away his commande, they have nothing to do to take his covenant in their mouth. Psal. 50. 16.


It is to be observed, 1. that M. H. leaves the conclusion to the reader, and sets down a proposition and an assumption all along, such as they are: 2. he never concludes what is de∣nied, ergo, onely such visible Saints are members of the visible Church: 3. he speaks most ambiguously, such hypocrites are not fit to have communion with the Church. What Church? he knowes the question is of the visible Church onely, for he grants part. 1. c. 2. conclus 3. pag. 27. 28. that such as are found to be corrupted and grosse hypocrites being now received members, though they were not so when first admitted, are so far fit to have communion with the Church visible, as they must be tolerated and remaine members, untill they be judicially examined, convinced, and censunes applyed for reformation: 4, it is one thing to prove Page  13 that open hypocrites should not be admitted members of the visible Church, but it is the sinne of the so knowing admit∣ters, for which M. R. now disputes; and a far other thing which M. H. proveth, to wit, it is not fit that hypocrites have communion with the Church: what a lax disputing is this? they that eat and drink unworthily, 1 Cor. 11. 28. 29. and eat things sacrificed to idols, 1 Cor. 10. 21. should not have com∣munion with the Church in the holy ordinances, would Paul therefore inferre such, though converts, are not to be admit∣ted members of the visible Church? it is not fit, yea it is sin, that either professed non-converts, or latent non-converts have communion with the Church, for their very profession of the name of Christ, when there is no reality in the thing, is a most sinfull unfitnesse in Magus, in Iudas, will it follow Ergo the Church sinnes in admitting Magus and Iudas? 5. the state of the question is overturned, for the scope of Psal. 50. 16, 17. as Calvin, Musculus, Marlorat, Diodati, English Di∣vines observe well, is to presse a sincere reality in profession, and to condemn outward sacrificing and crying, we are in co∣venant with God, not onely without repentance and praying and praising in faith, 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. but when the so profes∣sing hypocrits were compartners with theeves, adulterers, &c. v. 18. 19. 20. but the place speaketh not one jot that the Church ought not to have admitted such to be members of the visible Church: 6. Let it be remembred that M. H. here makes the Jewish Church a sampler of the visible single con∣gregations under the new Testament: 7. and since all the ho∣ly things of God were committed to the Church of the Jewes, Rom. 31. 2. Rom. 9. 4, 15 Psal. 147. 19, 20. Deut. 29. 10, 11. If the * Lord called them not, nor planted them into a Church-frame, nor admitted them members, untill first they were contrary to these hypocrites Psal. 50 16. 17. and untill there was not onely a professed willingnesse to receive the gospell, (I speak the language of M. H. 16 pag. 28.) but a practicall reformati∣on in their profession (Survey part. 1. cap. pag. 14. 15.) that they savoured so much, as they had been with Iesus, and if so be they must have been the true Israel in mens esteem, before the Lord called and choosed them to be his people, it must Page  14 follow that God choosed not Israel to be his Church of free * grace and love, but when they were now professors and practi∣cally reformed, and a people calling upon God in the day of trouble, offering thanksgiving, paying vowes, loving instructi∣on, contrary to these hypocrites Psal. 50, 14, 15 16, 17, 18. which is grosse Pelagianisme, and contrary to the word of God, 2 Chron. 2. 11. Deut. 7, 6, 7, 8. Psal, 47 4. Psal. 78, 68.

8. Nor is it true that all oracles, ordinances, and priviledges de be∣long to the visible Church, as visible in M. H. sense, i. e. to every sin∣gle congregation: for there is, there may be a single congregati∣on which there is not one chosen of God, but all made up of such stuffe as Magus and Iudas, yea and the promises of an everlasting covenant, and the priviledges of election, effectu∣all calling, perseverance, glorification, are not made to single Churches or kingdomes, provinces, since the famous Churches of Rome, Ephesus, Thessalonica, of Asia are horribly fallen, these previledges belong firstly and principally to the Catho∣lick visible Church as Mysticall and invisible both subjectivè and finaliter, or objectively, especially as they are Gods trea∣sures.

M. H. pag. 18. M. R. yields the causes while he granteth the wicked are forbidden, what to be Church members? no, but to take the covenant of God in their mouth, for if they come to see their sinne, reform their evil wayes, they are non-visible Saints, therefore while they remain haters of reformation, they are not visible Saints, and have no title to be Church-members.

Answ. The cause is never a whit the more yielded, because of M. H. his mistake in proving one thing for another: the Lord, Psal. 50. 16, forbids hypocrites remaining hypocrites to take the Lords covenant in their mouth, but I said not, therefore he forbids the Church to take in any as members but these onely to come to see thir sinne and to reform their evil waye, as M H. saith (which is indeed to yield the cause) for if they who leave the wayes of Pganisme, Iudaisme, Popery, and the wayes of sin, professe they are willing to be the disciples of Christ if the profession be not grossely and knownly hypo∣criticall, and their coming in be not for by-ends and to betray the cause, but morally ingenuous and negatively sincere, Page  15 the Church is to receive such, and is not forbidden to admit them as members, whether to the knowledge of the Church they be reall converts or not reall converts. I grant it is ano∣ther thing, if they refuse to come and to be baptized, Luk. 7. 29, 30. Luk. 14. 17, 18. sure no man can be a Church-member against his will. 2. The Lord may well rebuke Magus and Iu∣das while they are Church-members, the same way that he re∣bukes the hypocrites, Psal. 50. 16, 17. and say what have you to do to declare my statutes, &c. for I know your hearts, how you hate instruction, &c. and yet the Church sinnes not in admit∣ting them.

3. M. H. confounds these two, to wit, the seeing of sinne, and reforming of their evill way, which is reall and sincere repentance, if it be a saving sight of sinne, they sincerely re∣pent, if it be counterfeit, to wit, the giving evidence of godly sorrow and repentance, the Church may see the latter, and yet Magus and Iudas remaine under the same reproof, for they may in their heart hate instruction, and act these sinnes of partaking with thieves secretly, and be secret adulterers, and the word may reprove them, and yet there is no blame in the Church in either admitting them, or in bestowing Church∣priviledges upon them.


Of the call of God to make a Church, 2. there may be a true visible Church, and members thereof, before there be any seals in that Church. Whether the preach∣ing of the word be an essentiall mark of the Church.

MAster Hooker pag 18.

M. Rutherfurd: such as internally hate to be reformed may be ordinary hearers and so members.

M. H. if ordinary hearing made a member, then excommuni∣cate persons should be members for they are ordinary hearers. Ans. If M. R. make every ordinary hearing to make a member of the Church ordinary and intire, he saith something. 2. This Page  16 twitcheth the question whether the preaching of the Gospel be an essentiall note and marke of the visible Church. Before I speak how far persons excommunicate are members or not members of the visible Church, hence 1. Any sort of pro∣fession, * whether by an avowing of that Gospel to one ano∣ther, or suffering for it, even when the sheepheards are smitten and the flock scattered is a practicall and very speaking mark, that such a company is a true Church. 2. A pastorall publish∣ing of the word is a speciall mark and an great-half of a note of a Ministeriall, Politick, Church. Though the administrati∣on of the seals to those capable of them added thereunto make a more complete marke of a more complete Ministeriall Church. 3. The active call of God by the preached word may be transient and occasionall to mocking Athenians, Act. 17. and yet intended to save some, and to be a seed to some Church, v. 34. certain be leed, this is the seed of some Church, like some cornes of wheat scatteredly fallen in a field that may have an harvest, 4. This active call may be refused, and the refusers never be the Church, Luk. 14 16, 17. not visible members, they visibly refusing the call and coun∣sell of God and neglecting obstinately to be baptized, Luk. 7 30. 5. But we mean, beside this active call some passive pro∣fessing and receiving of, and yiel•…g to the offered Gospel. So as they came to the marriage-supper, whether they have, or want a wedding garment. Mat. 22. and receive the seed, whether they be thorny, rockie, or a way-side ground, or they be good soile, and may yield some externall obedience; in this consideration, Pagans and Turks are not passively * the called of God, nor members of the visible Church, though they be hearers; but that they be ordinary fixed hearers, and yet in no sort externall professors, but remain without, and be Pagans, is not conceiveable, except they professedly heare for curiosity, or to mock, or to undermine the Gospel and Church, and so they are not to be admitted to be hearers or Church members, except by violence they thrust them∣selves in among hearers. 1. Abraham called with his house to leave idolatry obeyeth the calling, buildeth an altar to the Lord, Gen. 12. 1, 2, &c. 18. Professeth and teacheth as a Pro∣phet, Page  17 the doctrine of the covenant, and God appearing re∣vealeth the Gospel to him, Genes. 12. v. 2, 3 Genis. 15. 4, 5, 6, 7. and he believeth, and so he, and his house is a visible Church, when, not while many yeers after, and untill he was ninetie years and nine, the seal of circumcision was ordained, and gi∣ven to him and his house. Genes. 17. 1, 2, 3. and the Church is a true visible Church in the wildernesse, in which was the Angel, of the covenant who spake to Moses in mount Sina. Act. 7. 38. (which is a note and marke of a true visible Church. Revel. 1. 20. Rev. 2. 1.) which yet wanted circumcision and the passeover, for∣ty years in the wildernesse. Iosh. 5. 5, 6, 7. this proves that there is a true visible Church, where Christ is, and yet wanteth the ordinary seals, Baptisme and the Lords supper. 2. When the Apostles first planted Churches, we have no ground, that they * preached to Ephesus, to Galathia, to Philippi, to Corinth, where God had much people (as the Lord before had told Paul) Act. 16. 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13. Act. 18. 7, 8, 9, 10. and that they framed them not into Churches, untill, to the satisfaction of the judge∣ment of charity of the Apostles, they were converts, and so to them all chosen to eternall life, and untill they did, first, be∣ing a number of visible converts, choose Paul and other plan∣ters of the Churches, for their Pastors, whereas they preached to them for their conversion, as no pastors at all; before that choosing, but as gifted men, for that hath not the least sha∣dow of truth in the word: so also they did first heare the Go∣spel as Disciples and visible Professors, before they could be baptized or received to the other seale, as is evident, by the Eunuches professed reading and asking the meaning of that which he read. Isai. 53. Act. 8. 29, 30, 31. and his professed seek∣ing to be baptized, and the Iaylors professed hearing, and asking what he should do to be saved. A••. 16. 30, 31, 32. and by the hearing and pofessing of all his house, before they were bapti∣zed, and the Corinthians, hearing and believing. Act. 18. 8. And Lydia, and her houses hearing. Act. 16 14, 15. and the Gentiles reverent professed hearing the word. Act. 10. 33, 44, 45, 46. and the three thousand, Act. 52. hearing and saying, (which was a fair visible profession) men and brethren, what shall we do? before any of them were baptized. Act. 2. v. 37, 41, 42, 43. Page  18 which proveth, that both active preaching of the Gospel, and a professed receiving thereof go before men be inchurched. And yet if these may be, to wit, hearing and professed receiv∣ing, here is an essentiall mark by which persons, before they receive the seals, are made members visible and disciples, and societies visible, and Churches essentially differenced, 1. From all the false Churches visible on earth, who have not the sound of the word preached, and professedly heard, and visibly recei∣ved, and 2. from all civil societies, 3. from all Pagan, and Hea∣then societies on earth. Ergo they were a distinct Christian soci∣ety, differenced essentially, and if they should all dye before they had been baptized, or had received the seals, they had been true visible Church-members; and if killed for the truth, they had dyed visible professing Martyrs, and the called Church of Christ.

3. The visible Church is a thing, whose being is in succession * and dayly growing, and is a society dayly more stated (as it were) in a Church-way, according as the active calling on the Lords part, and his peoples yielding thereunto in a dayly pro∣fession go on, as Isai 65. 2. the Lord all the day long calleth, and (to speak so) inchurcheth dayly people by the preached word. Math. 23. 37. How often would I have gathered you? Jer. 7. 25. he sendeth his Prophets, early in the morning, and late at night to call. Hence if that which is the essentiall mark of the Church visible, to wit, the preaching of the Gospel, be the onely instrument, and the draw-net of pulling out and calling of men into fellowship with Christ, by the word preached: And if the seal do onely confirm converts, as discipline keepeth the visible kingdome clean from visible scandals, then are these who professedly in that society partake and receive that essen∣tiall mark, and yield externally thereunto, members of the visi∣ble Church, and a society made up of such a true visible Church, though they receive not yet all the ordinances, and are as the ou∣ter court, which is a part of the temple. But the active calling of God by the preached word, and the peoples professed yielding thereunto, and their ordinary professed hearing, is such a mark, both by the word of God, and all our Protestant Divines, Cal∣vin, Beza. Bl. P. Martyr, Bucanus, Tilenus, Piscator, Muscu∣lus, Page  19 Gualter, Iunius, Pareus, Zanchius, Professors of Leideu, Wil∣let, Iewel, Reynald, Trelcatius, Sadeel, Polanus, &c. Fathers, Councels old and late, and our brethren cannot build their new Churches, but by loosing the foundation-stones layed by these worthy builders, and the Scripture maketh feeding of the flockes & setting up the sheepheards tents. Cant. 1. 7, 8. Ier. 3. 15. Feeding of the flock, and the feed flock. Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 6. 1. The golden candlestick in the preached word, and these in the house to whom it giveth light, the onely mark of a true visible Church, so is it prophecyed it shall be under the new Testament. Isai. 2. 3. Many people and nations shall go, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lords house: how shall the visible mountain be known? and he will teach us his wayes, and we will walk in his pathes, for out of Sion (the visible Church) shall go*forth the Law, and the word of the Lord from Ierusalem, so Isai. 62. 6. The visible city is known. I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Ierusalem, which shall never hold their peace, (but preach and pray) day nor night, Psal. 147. 19. He sheweth his word unto Iacob, his statutes and his judgements to Israel. And that pro∣veth them to be a Church differenced from other societies, v. 20. He hath not dealt so with any nation. I grant statutes and judgements include seals, sacrifices as all the priviledges. Rom. 6. 4, 5. to whom pertained the adoption and the glory, and the cove∣nants and the giving of the Law. Yet by the word soundly preached is faith begotten, Rom. 10. 14, 15 And the flock fed, and the disciples made. Matthew 28. 19, 20 It is taught, that sacra∣ments do but confirm faith, now a Ministeriall begetting of children is (to speak so) more essentiall to the visible Church, then to confirm them. 2. that doctrine is not to be holden, which teacheth us no way of certain knowing by faith what is the true visible Church to which we may adjoyne our selves, and what not, but teacheth us a conjecturall way onely of finding the true visible Church, as Socinians, and Arminians, who tell us the notes of the true Church are not necessary to be known. 2. There is no certain way of knowing the true visible Church, now our way that maketh the profession of the sound doctrine of the Gospel a note of the true Church, holdeth out a way of knowing by certainty, by faith which is the true Page  20 Church; as we know which is the true doctrine. But Sociniant* say two or three fundamentals are all, and they give us a Church so wide as taketh in all Churches, Papists, Socinians, Li∣bertines, &c. and Anabaptists, and those that are for tolerati∣on of all religions, yea, and for all errors not fundamentals (since they know not well, what be fundamentals, what not) shall give but conjectures, for the knowledge of the sound Church. And M H. referres all to the judgement of charity, which is a meere doubting uncertain way of finding the true Church.

As to the argument, if preaching of the word were a true mark of the Church, then were excommunicate persons members of the Church, for they heare the word. I answer, 1. such as are excom∣municate for apostacy from the truth▪ 2. such as are stricken with the great excommunication, Anothema Maranatha 1 Cor. 16. 22. are not to be ordinary hearers of the word, and so the ar∣gument holdeth not of them, for they are simply rotten mem∣bers.

But for such as are excommunicated, because of some par∣ticular scandal, as incest, or a particular heresie, and yet pro∣fesse the truth, as to all other points, they are members cut off, and yet not cut off, in so far as they retain a profession, yea and to the knowledge of the Church, are visible converts, though in one particular scandal, they lye without and give, not such evidences of repentance, as the Church can pardon them, as may be proven from the 2 Cor. 2. 6, 7, 8, 9. they are ordinary hearers of the word, as such as must be reclaimed by the preached word, as sick children, under the medicinall cure of excommunication, and the preached word that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. but they are not ordi∣nary hearers as visible professors, nor are they members com∣plete of the Church in the inner court; admitted to the seals, 2. 2 Thss 3. 14, 15. They are cut off members, yet not coun∣ted as enemies, but to be admonishd as brethen. Ergo though they be 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as heathens and Publicans, Matth. 18. Yet are they * not simply to be counted Pagans, nor occasionall hearers, as Pa∣gans, but brethren: and though Mr. Robinson, and some say the place 2 Thess. 3. is not meant of excommunicated per∣sons, Page  21 beside that it is against the text, against the current of sound interpreters, yet it proveth our point, that even such as walk disorderly, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, verse 11. and obey not the doctrine of the Gospel, and with whom we should not keep company, v. 14. and so ought to be excommunicate, by M. Hookers do∣ctrine, yet remain brethren, and are to be counted so by mem∣bers of the Church, and are to heare the word of admonition, and so are visible professors, and so not utterly cast out of the visible Church, and M. H doth no more refute our Prote∣stants, then the Scripture who calleth such as are fed, and the hearers of the Lords testimonies, the Israel of God, and the sheep of his pasture, his flock, inheritance, his vineyard his garath of red vine, his spouse, and what is this but the Church visible, Psal. 147. 19, 20. Hosh. 8 11. What? because the excommunicated who thus hear ordinarily are not members of the Church, be∣cause they are not whole & intire members, it is no more conse∣quently spoken, then if he would say a wounded souldier, be∣cause he is wounded, and under cure, is not a member of the army and sworn to the colours, because he cannot march and fight as other souldiers. M. H. c. 2. part. 1. pag. 18. 19. and pag. 33. 34. Suppose a minister should preach many yeares to a company of Infidells in one place, and a Lecturer to many people of diverse con∣gregations in the same auditory, shall it follow that Ifidels are members of the visible Church and that these make a visible Church? though there be here setled preaching, yet it is not an essentiall and*differencing property of the visible Church, but a commune adjunct or separable accident, as the sensitive faculty is not a proper mark of a man, though it be in man, for so might one and the same man be a member of four such visible Churches, if they meet ordinarly, at several houres, to their severall lectures.

Answ. We mean by settled preaching preaching as oppo∣sed to transient and occasionall preaching, as when Paul in passing on a journey preacheth to mocking Athenians we grant that will not conclude that the sc•… who occasionally so * heare, are members of the visible Church, not think our divines preaching so to be an essentiall mark of the visible Church, but by settled preaching, which we make such a mark, we mean 1. the active calling of God, by Gods warrant and command Page  22 to preach to such, for Ministers may not at randome set up a light among Infidels upon their own private choice and spirit, but if God so dispose that they have a faculty of speaking in their own tongue to Pagans, 2. if providence open a door for a call, that there be any passive call or accepting of him for these di∣verse yeares upon the part of these Infidels, and 3. if the Lord gift the man and stir up his spirit to preach diverse yeares to these Infidels in one place. I shall say there the Lord hath said to that man, go and bid these Infidels and fooles come to the wedding, as Mat. 12. 9. and come to wisdomes table, as Prov. 9. 4. and there is a visible Church there: if these heathen heare and mock, and lyingl•…are, and still professe and practise the worshipping of their dumb Idols, we shall say preachers have no warrant one year, let alone many years so to preach, and the man preach∣eth to them without warrant from God, and where there is no professed yielding in some measure, the supposition is without the state of our question. 2. the contret of a lecturer that * preacheth the word to diverse professors from sundry Churches, if 1. he have no warrant to administer the seals, or to exercise discipline over them; he seemeth to me some Ca∣tholick Doctor I read not of in scripture, not unlike the Popish and Prelaticall Deacon, who may preach and baptize (as a midwife to them in case of necessity may baptize) but not to administer the other seal. 2. if he be a lawfully called Pastor, I shall say, the meeting is a true visible Church of visible mem∣bers met from sundry Churches, and is not a fixed, but a tran∣sient Church, and it is no more absurd to say these are members of four visible Churches, to wit, transient members, then to say they are members of the whole Catholick visible Church, and baptized. Whether Iewes or Gentiles, all, by one spirit, unto one body, 1 Cor. 12. 13. being all one body, having one spirit, one faith, one Lord, one baptisme. Ephes. 4. 4, 5. though they belong to di∣verse particular Churches: and this argument beggeth what is in question, that all sound professors are not members of the Catholick visible Church.

3 This way settled preaching is no commune adjunct or sepa∣rable accident of a visible Church, but an essentiall note thereof.

Page  23


M. Hookers 2. Argument to prove that preaching of the sound Doctrine of the Gospel is no mark of the visible Church.

MAster Hooker addeth, par. 1. chap. 2. pag. 34.

If you say that settled preaching as established and remai∣ning in the Church is a mark of the Church, so you make the Church a mark of it self, this plea is too narrow.

Answ. It is not narrow, nor a plea either to say, that seeing * eyes as fixed in a living creature we call animal, and hearing ears, &c. are an essentiall note of a living creature, whereas the eyes and ears not fixed in a living creature, but separated from it; should be a narrow plea indeed, to be called the essentiall mark of a living creature; and yet none can say that a living creature is made a mark of it self. They speak not feebly, but rationally, who say that rationall discoursing as fixed in a man is an essenti∣all mark of a man.

M. H. par. 1. c. 2. pag. 19.

M. Rutherfurd said, the argument is nothing against us, such adulterers. Psal. 50. as are not to take the Law in their mouth, are to be cast out, but the question is whether, if they be not cast out, the Church for that be no true Church. M. H. Answer, the first part yieldeth the cause again, for if they should be cast out, there is no reason they should be received, or taken in, nor have they any right thereunto, nor be they fit matter.

Answ. M. Rutherfurd is not such a yielder of truth as so; for *M. Hookers argument yieldeth more thus, these who are worthy to be casten out, had never right to be received in, as Church mem∣bers, so M. H. But adulterers who take the law in their mouth, known adulterers (so M. Rutherfurd yieldeth and no o∣therwayes) are worthy to be casten out: ergo adulterers; who take the law in their mouth, had never right to be received in as Church-members. 1. M. Hookers proposition is most false, for thousands, as Magus, and others worthy to be casten out, had Page  24 right (Church right, of that onely we speak) such as pastors can give them, to be admitted members, so the Scripture, so M. H. part 1. chap. 2. conclus. 3. pag. 27 When then both the pro∣position and assumption are taught in Scripture, granted by M H see now who yieldeth the cause. 2. to say if they should be casten out, ergo they had never right to come in; is, as if he woud say, such a woman hath committed harlotry with many men beside her husband, ergo she had never right to be a married wife, and was never lawfully marryed; and so hath neither committed adultery, nor deserveth a bill of divorce.

3 No more can follow from this, that adulterers once ad∣mitted to membership, falling into scandals ought to be casten out, ergo if they had been under the same scandall visibly, they ought not to have been taken in, but this supposeth a begging of the question, that there is in Scripture a gathering of Churches of visible converts out of Churches of men and women born and baptized in their infancy within the visible Church, which yet I say was never dreamed of by the Apostles, and though it were so, whether we speak of such a gathering, or of gathering of Churches out of Pagans, persons not capable of Gospel∣scandals, before their admission, which may hold them out, as they are guilty of Gospel-scandals, after they profess the Go∣spel. For then an unmarried woman might be capable of adul∣tery with her own husband, before she be married upon him. 2. as to that which M. Rutherfurd said, that supposed they were not cast out, the question is whether the Church for that be no Church. M. H. saith, that wholly misseth the mark again, for the question is twitching the constitution of the Church, of what matter it should be made, it is not twitching separation from the Church. To which I an∣swer, because I dispute against both these of the congregation, and the Separatists our brethren, having no arguments but such * as Separatists and Anabaptists have, and with more vigour prose∣cuted then they, because I conclude against separation as well as against them, having to do with two adversaries, and giving one answer to the one, (which yet is not taken off) and ano∣ther answer to the other, it is not equal dealing to say the an∣swer to the Separatists wholly misseth the mark, because it is not the same with the answer to the congregational way.

Page  25 2. M. H. declineth an answer to that which I said against the separation, that if any were not casten out, it followeth not that the Church leaveth off to be a Church, and must be separated from. But our brethrens practise in New England is, if any Church do not cast out such as deserved to be cast out, to non∣communion them, and declare them to be no Churches of Christ, and so they must be separated from; which can be upon no ground, but because they maintain a Church to be no true Church consisting of false matter, and visibly unregene∣rate; * and would M. H. have Church-Communion kept with such? yea his arguments first and second, which are both but one, (though he find out four, where there are scarce three) prove them to be no visible Church, for he must stand by this as his own.

These to whom Christ is head and king by the influence of poli∣tick guidance, and motion of the head as leige subjects, are the one∣ly fit matter of the visible Church, and the onely true visible Church.

But such as deserve to be casten out, and are not casten out, yea are owned still as Church-members, are not such to whom Christ is head and king. Ergo such leave off to be members and are not a visible Church; the proposition and assumption both are M. Hookers. I confesse when an answer cannot be ta∣ken away, it is a compendious way, to say not one word to it, but simply, the answer doth wholly misse the marke. M. H. must say a Church of false matter is no Church, or then with us, a society professing the pure doctrine of Christ, though the members be wicked, is a true Church.

Page  26


M. Hookers reason why he passeth in silence the argu∣ments of his own book of discipline of the Churches of New England, for the constitution of a visible Church, and defendeth them not: a scanning of these argu∣ments.

MAster Hooker part. 1. ch. 2. pag. 19. passeth in silence the arguments of the way of the Churches of New England,* except a gentle hint he hath at the first, but he omitteth the nerves thereof, onely he bringeth four arguments of his own, in my apprehension, inferior, not a little, to the arguments of learned M. Cotton, it was wisdome so to do; onely in the place pag. 15. he giveth us a short list of his visible Saints, we are (saith he) from rationall charity, to say and hope, and so are bound to conceive they are Saints, (converts and internally justified) so Iudas, Magus, Ananias, &c. (though hidden hypocrites) were such; and therefore our Saviour proceedeth with such, not as God who knoweth the heart, but in a Church way as these who Iudge*the tree by the fruit; the Church cannot judge of bid things, nor cen∣sure them.

Answ. 1. Then the Saints, faithfull, brethren, temples of the holy Ghost, at Rome, Ephesus must be proven to be visible Saints from the Scripture, from such a visible Saintship, as our Savi∣our and the Apostles saw in these goodly ungodly Saints, Iudas, Magus, &c. for if these titles conclude that they were inter∣nally converted, and chosen to grace and glory, &c. as Ephs. 1. 3. 1 Thess. 5. 10. 2 Thess. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 16. as they do, then must all and every visible member of these Churches be visible elects, and predestinate to glory, which if our brethren say of all the members of all these visible Churches, suppose Magus and Iudas had been among them, it is easie for any to prove the contrary. 2. but if so be that these titles prove they were all internally converted, and that our visible Church must Page  27 be such, or else they are falsly constituted, then how shall De∣mas, Magus, find roome in the visible Church, as true mem∣bers since they were not such? if it be said that the argument which proveth that they weremore, may well prove the lesse, and that they had all the visible Saintship that Magus, Iudas had, we shall grant that; but then you must stand by this argu∣ment.

Such as were the members of the Churches of Corinth, Rome, Ephesus, Thessalonica, &c. by these places cited by the disci∣pline-book of new England, chap. 3. sect. 3. pag. 56. 57. 1 Cor. 12. 27. Ephs. 2. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 16, 17. 2 Cor. 11. 2. 1 Cor. 1. 2. Galat. 1. 2. Math. 16. 16. to 19. such ought the members of our Church visible to be, or then they are constituted of false mat∣ter. *

But the members of these Churches by these places were re∣ally and internally converted and justified. Ergo our Churches visible must also consist of these that are really and internally converted and justified, or then they are constituted of false matter; but the conclusion is false and absurd, for so Christ and the Apostles erred even proceeding in a Church way in admit∣ting Iudas, Magus, to be members; for sure they were not in∣ternally and really converted and justified: and yet M H. ma∣keth them true members, and his visible Saints, it was wisdome therefore to M. H. to bury these arguments, and to contra∣dict his own book of discipline, which page 57 saith, that Christ taxeth the pastors, by whose connivencei the man wanting the wedling garment came in, friend how camest thou hither? M. H. saith, nay they were not taxed, that man conveyed it so cunning∣ly that onely the master of the feast pe ••ived it, others did not dis∣cover it, page 29. but all dependeth on the making good the as∣sumption, that these places prove that they were inwardly and really converted, which I make good by these reasons, 1. the Holy Ghost expresly saith, they were the habitation of God through the spirit. temples of the holy Ghost, espoused to Christ as a chast virgin; ergo they were really such: to say that Paul speaketh ac∣cording to the judgement of charity only, and in a Church way, is to beg the question, there is not a word of any such judge∣ment of charity in the Scripture and our brethren have no law Page  28 to adde to the Scripture, to help their own cause. 2. If you ad∣here to this argument, you must say with M. H. that Christ hoped and was bound to conceive by the fruits of Iudas his life, that Iudas was a Saint, and might have some seeds of some spiri∣tuall,*work of God in his soul, and yet Christ saith, have not I cho∣sen you twelve, and one of you hath a devill? and this he knew from the beginning, Iohn 13. 11, 18. because Iesus not as God, but in a Church-way dealt with Iudas and such: I remit it to any man, if Christ failed against charity, except he believed Iudas to be a convert, before he betrayed his hypocrisie; what warrant in the Scripture for this? 3. What ground that the Apostles in charity believed and said that Demas, Magus, were converts, temples of the holy Ghost, chosen to life, as the Ephesians? 1. 3. and Thessa∣lonians 2 Ths. 2. 13. or then they had sinned in admitting them to the visible Church, and baptizing them. 4. Whereas he sayeth the Church judgeth not of things hid; whether the Churches of New England do not judge and heavily censure (though they will not give it that name) all the baptized in their Church, whom they exclude from Church-membership and the Lords supper, all their life, as if they were Pagans, be∣cause they have not so much charity as to believe them to be vi∣sible converts; judge reader. But (say they) this will not prove that they were internally and really converted, because Paul saith so of them; to which I say, then upon the same account must we expone these places Ephes. 2. 4. God rich in mercy hath loved us, and when we (Paul and converted Jewes and Gentiles) were dead in sinnes hath quickened us together in Christ, in the judgement of charity and in a Church way onely. 6. and hath raised us up together, and hath made us fit together in heavenly places in a Church-way. verse 10 we are his workmanship created unto good works, and we who verse 12. were sometimes without Christ, strangers to the Common-wealth of Israel, 13. are now made neare in the blood of Christ: and verse 18. we who were strangers, have accesse, by Christ, through one spirit unto the Fa∣ther, onely in a Church-way, by politick guidance of our head Christ: and the like must be said of all the reall internall work of the spirit upon the hearts of all the Saints at Ephesus, Colosse, Corinth, Thessalonica, &c. so they were by this reason light in the Page  29 Lord quickened, had Christ dwelling in them by faith, were sealed, translated from death to life, &c. in a Church way, and from none of these places can we conclude that they were really and in∣ternally converted, for all these places and reall works of grace must agree to Iudas, Magus, and to all such visible Saints, be∣cause all Churches visible rightly constitute must be made up, by this argument, of such visible Saints, else they are false in the matter, and not according to the pattern of Apostolick Churches.

3. The assumption is made out also thus, as the Apostle calleth them the body of Christ, the habitation of God, temples of the holy ghost, so also he blesseth God and rendreth thanks to him, that had chosen to life the Ephesians, blessed them with all spirituall blessings in Christ, bestowed on them adoption, redemption, forgiye∣nesse * of sinnes, the inheritance of glory, Ephes. 2. 13, 4. &c. or∣dained the Thessalonians not to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Iesus Christ, 1 Thess. 5. 9. 4. had chosen them to salvation through Sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth, 2 Thess. 2. 13. and upon this buildeth their comfort and faith, I Thes. 54. 9, 10. 11. so Coloss. 1. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. now what joy, comfort, faith, thanksgiving can have place, if these places be not understood of such reall internall graces, as election, conversion, &c. as Iudas and Magus neither have nor can have? otherwayes all the hypocrites, as Magus and Iudas, have a like lively consolation with all the chosen of God; and Paul must blesse God, because he had chosen, called, justified, &c. such as Magus and Iudas. 4. I wonder the way of the Churches should * cite 1 Cor. 3. 16. for visible Saintship which dependeth on the judgement of charity, for the place is evidently of reall con∣verts, know ye not, that ye are the temple of God, and that the spi∣rir of God dwelleth in you? is this I pray you, the knowledge of charity, which is fallible, and may mistake? nay this, and the like places 2 Cor. 13. 5. and the 1 Iohn 2. 3. 1 Iohn 3. 14. know ye*not that Christ dwelleth in you &c. by this we know that we know him, &c. are brought by our Divines to prove against Papists, that we may be infallibly perswaded that we are in the state of grace, and know our selves to be temples of the Holy Ghost, not by the fallible and erring judgement of charity; which we never Page  30 extend, but to other then our selves, but by an infallible cer∣tainty, though not of faith, yet of supernaturall sence and di∣vine perswasion by which we know infallibly our selves to be in Christ, 2. as to that argument, such should our Churches be in their members constituent, as the Church of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, were, when Paul writ to them, and after they were now constituted and grown, it is most false. It is just as if Aristotle would say and write to some of his disciples that had studied some years * under him, you are excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter, of motion and time; and another should inferre, ergo there be no Academies on earth rightly constituted, where the Scho∣lars are not excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter, of motion, of tme, before they be admitted members of the Academie now the argument should be thus;

Such as were the Churches of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, &c. as to their members constituent, before they were admitted to Church membership, such should our visible Churches be accor∣ding to their members constituent before the members be ad∣mitted to Church membership; true, but the Churches of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, &c. as to their members constitu∣ent, were before they were admitted to Church membership, visible converts in the judgement of charity to the Apostles, and planters, it is most false and can never be proven.

And to argue from grown and planted Churches, after Paul had begotten the Corinthians as a father, 1 Cor. 4. 15. to prove that our Churches should be such in their constitution, is to say, such is a tall-tree now, ergo also before it was sowen it was not a seed, but a tall-tree: so the adversaries would not be content we should argue thus, such as was the Church of Sardis in its constitution, after it is now falling, such should ours be in its members constituent, before they be admitted members of the vi∣sible Church: but the Church of Sardis, for the most part, con∣sisted of such members as had a name they lived, and were dead, and had visibly defiled their garments, a few onely remaining visible converts, as verse 1. compared with verse 4. ergo our Churches should be such, as to the members constituent. Such ar∣guing is as good as that of New Englands, and yet Christ had a golden candlestick in Sardis, and walked among them, and Page  31 held them as stars in his right hand, Rev. 1. 20. Now the conclu∣sion should be against them, and the chief basis of all is, that the keyes are given to such, Mat. 16. 16. to 19. as are blessed and enlightned, as believing Peter was, who was not blessed for the profession that Christ was the Son of the living God; for Iudas was that way blessed who held out but a verball profession.


Mr. Hookers first inference, that Church-fellowship doth presuppose men to be visible Saints, but doth not make them such, discussed.

THat men are first converted visibly before they be Church∣members is a grosse mistake, it leaneth on this, That the Church which Christ hath in his Gospel instituted, to which he hath committed the keyes of his Kingdome, the power of binding and loo∣sing, the tables and seals, is a company of Saints, a combination of godly faithfull men. So the Church of N. England. From this it * must follow that there is an instituted visible Church void of Pastors, which converteth souls before there be pastors, and so there must be Sons and daughters before there be Fathers and Pastors to beget them to God, as Ministeriall Fathers; and * they must be fed before they have Pastors to feed them, and if they be converted before they be in Church-fellowship, and Pastors must be nurse-Fathers to feed and confirm these who were born before their father had being. The contrary where∣of Paul of the formed Church of the Galathians, that he did travel in birth till Christ be formed in them, Gal. 4. 15. and when he wrote the Epistle to the Corinthians, they were framed a visible Church, and many not yet reconciled to God; and yet in that case he saith, 1 Cor. 4. 15. Though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, y•• have ye not many fathers, for in Christ Iesus have I begotten you through the Gospel. Now that he begat them all and every one, and made, them visible con∣verts, Page  32 before he was their Church-Father, or they in Church∣fellowship, * where is it sayed or dreamed, by any colour of truth? yea 2 Cor. 5. 20, now then we are ambassadours for Christ, at though God did beseech you by us, we pray you be reconciled to God, ergo this supposeth some state of non-reconciliation in many Church members, Rom. 12. 2. be not conforme to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. Ephes. 4. 22. that ye put off concerning the former conversation, the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, Coloss. 3. 8. now lay you aside all these. 16. putting on the new man: all which and the like places directed to visible converts, must all be exponed without exception, of second conversion and of reiterating of conversion and reconci∣liation of these that are already converted and reconciled, which no Scripture can perswade; and by the like order, the chil∣dren must be born and vsibly converted, before they were in the wombe of their visible mother who conceived and bare them, contrary to 1 Cor. 3. 15. nor can the mother be any thing but a nurse, nor any other in regard of bringing forth, but a * barren mother, which bringeth not forth twinnes, contrary to Cant. 4. 2. Isai. 54. 1, 2, 3.

2. The Scripture holdeth forth their pastors as pastors are sent to open the eyes of the blind, to turn them from darknesse to light, and from the power of Sathan unto God, that they may receive for∣givenesse of sinnes, Act. 26. 18. yea and the Scripture teacheth that we receive the spirit by the hearing of faith from pastors, as sent and in office, such as were the officed prophets, whose feet were pleasant upon the mountaines, as is clear, Rom, 10. 14, 15. compared with Isai. 52. 7. Nah. 1. 15.

3. If many be brought in to the visible Church and the house of wisdome, who are fooles and serving the world, as Math. 22. 8, 9. Prov. 9. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. upon Gods revealed intention and the aime and design of pastors, that they may be converted, and perfected by the work of the ministery, then are they not supposed to be converted before they be brought in to the vi∣sible Church; for God cannot intend that they be converted and regenerate of new, if their conversion and regenerati∣on go before any such intention; but the former is true 1. from Page  33 the nature of the visible Church, the office-house of wisdome, in which God intendeth to make fooles wise unto salvation. 2. From the preaching of the Law and Gospel, the onely means of conversion, whereas if all be presupposed to be converted, be∣fore * they come into the house of Wisdome, and the supper of the King, they should from pastors heare no doctrine of Law humiliation to fit them for Christ, but pastors should speak to them all as to converts, as to broken reeds, and to sheep that di∣scernt the voice of Christ, as to temples of the Holy Ghost, as to persons regenerated, justified, predestinated to life and to glo•… ry; yea, and if a pastor preach to any of the flock as known now to be yet in th state of nature; that preaching is not by any command of God given to him as a pastor. Nor. 3. from the revealed intention and command of God layed upon the Pa∣stors and Ministers, whose aime is to endeavour the conversion of all, to espouse them to Christ, to have them put off the old man, to have them rise from the dead, and that the Gospel be not hid to them, nor the savour of death unto death, as it is to many in the visible Church, 2 Cor. 4. 3, 4. 2 Cor. 2. 14, 15, 16. Ioh. 12. 37, 38, 39. by M. H. his way.

M. Hookeer par. 1. c. 2, p. 31. Answer the proposition faileth. These who are converts in the Iudgment of charity, may yet, in Gods intention, be brought in to the Church, that they may be truly converted.

Ans. M. Hooker leaveth out the chief word, wherein stan∣deth * the force of my argument, he speaketh nothing of Gods revealed intention and command to call in fooles that they may be made wise, and he frameth his answer, as if I had argued from the bare intention and hidden decree of God. But I find that M. Hooker utterly mistaketh the distinction of Gods decree, and of his approving will, and therefore he taketh for one and the same, the decree or intention of God (from which I bring not my argument) and the revealed intention of God, or his com∣manding will: the ignorance of which is a stumbling to Armi∣nians, and Socinians, and to M. Hooker, who, as we shall har, go∣eth on with them, but I judge it one mistake in judgment in that godly man, but no hereticall spirit, and therefore his defenders and followers would take heed to it. For I grant all that M. Hoo∣kerPage  34 answereth, but it is to no purpose, and quite beside the mark, and leaveth the argument untuitched (which is too ordinary to that pious man) for no doubt God in his decree and secret in∣tention may intend, by the Ministery of his servants, the true and reall conversion of many hypocrites, such as are no lesse unconverted, then Magus and Demas; for he hath mercy, on whom he will, Rom. 9. 17. but according to this way, these who are converts in the judgment of charity (he should say only converts in that judgment) are not according to Gods revealed inten∣ion and approving will or command taken in by Pastors, that they may be really converted: for God giveth, in no sort, this command to pastors in his revealed intention. See that ye admit no fooles to wisdomes table or within wisdomes house, but such only as you believe in charity are reall converts, and both called and cho∣sen, contrary to Prov. 9. 1, 2, 3, 4. Math. 22. 8, 9, 14. Ergo by my revealed intention and command you are not to intend their conver∣sion, but to presuppose that they were already converted: other∣wayes, if the Lord by his revealed intention and command will have such hypocrits who are but nominall saints, brought in that they may be truly converted, there must follow two con∣tradictory intentions revealed in God: for the Lords command to Pastors is (I command you to preach to these who are converts in*the judgment of charity, that upon my intention, they may be truly converted: And also I command you, my pastors, preach to no Church members, that upon my intention, they may be converted, because you are not to preach to any as pastors, but to such as ye know are already converted, according to my revealed intention and will. M. Hooker seeing this addeth.

But if M. Rutherfurd mean that the Church doeth of purpose*receive them into the Church to be converted, then it is crosse to his owne tenet, and a person may be received to the seales of the cove∣nant, who doeth not notifie that he hath faith, nay the Church may receive them to the seales, whom she knoweth hath no right to the seales, for she knoweth they are not invisible members, which in M. Rutherfurds judgment only giveth them right.

Ans. It is not crosse to my tenet, that a person, such as De∣mas and Magus may be received to the seales, and yet they doe not notifie they have saving faith and internall conversion, for Page  35 my tenet is that the Church can only judge of visible walking and profession in point of admission or not admission to seales, and in that point the Church hath nothing to doe to judge whether they have faith saving or not, none can partake sa∣vingly of the seales for their owne personall salvation and with∣out sinne, but these only who have saving faith, but the Church may admit without sinne multitudes, who eat and drink their own damnation, 1 Cor. 11. 26, 27. and yet passe no sentence of signes notifyng faith or no faith, internall conversion or no in∣ternall conversion upon them.

2 M. Hooker knoweth that M. R. differenceth between be∣ing admitted to the visible Church, and to the seales, and yet be repeateth my tenet, as if I confounded these, because he confoundeth them himselfe. Whereas M. H. sayeth ergo.

3 The Church may receive to the seales whom she knoweth hath no right Ecclesiasticall to them: it followeth not; for upon the Churches part, the right is good to conferre the seales, upon the knowledge of notifying signes, but of signes in order to conversion or not conversion, that is the place of the master Christ to Judge, not of servants, in this case before they be ad∣mitted members. But that the Church may admit to the seales whom she knoweth not whether they have right internall for their owne personall salvation, that I teach, and can make good from Scripture, Act. 8. 13 Math. 22. 12. 1 Cor. 11. 26, 27, 30. now I say, that its the place of Christ, not of servants to judge of the conversion or not conversion of members, not because men may, in no sort, judge of the conversion of or non conver∣sion of others; for in these cases we may judge of the conversion of others. 1. in order to speak to their spirituall state, as con∣verts, or not, Act. 17. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 1. (2) in the cases of duties of love, suppose we erre upon the matter, as Math. 10. 42. 1 Joh. 3. 14. (3) these that try intrants to the Ministery are to judge authoritatively whether they be converts to them or not, 1 Tim. 3. 10. 2 Tim. 2. 2. but to judge so before their admission wants warrant of Scripture: Pastors as pastors converted none, yea according to the command of Christ are to intend to con∣vert none at all, by M. H. his way.

Page  36 4. Where M. R. teacheth, that to be invisible members gi∣veth onely right to the seales, I know not.

5. I teach indeed that the Church may of purpose receive in to the visible Church, who are known members of the Catho∣lick visible Church, and manifestly gracious, upon a purpose, that they may, in a particular congregation, be confirmed not converted. But that is nothing to our point, but M. Hooker holdeth that pastors as pastors are called of God to convert no Church-members, for they presuppose they were before con∣verted: hence I say.

  • 1. Pastors doe either as pastors called of God preach to Church-members, to convert them?
  • 2. Or then as pastors called of God, they doe not preach to Church-members, to convert them. This contradiction is inevitable.

If the former be said. I gaine the point, and M. Hooker must yeild the cause.

If the latter be said.

Then must pastors as pastors called of God preach to Church-members, as some other officers, either as ruling Elders, which confoundeth the preaching Elder, and the not preaching Elder, contrary to the 1 Cor. 12. 28. 1 Tim. 5. 17. or (2) as Doctors, which again confoundeth the teaching, and the exhorting El∣der; contrary to Rom. 12. 7, 8. Ephes. 4. 11. or (3) as Deacons, which is popish: for deacons serve tables, but attend not to word and prayer, Act. 6. 2, 3, 4. or they preach to them, as private Christians, and unofficed persons, upon an intention to con∣vert Church-members: for if only they preach as pastors to confirme them, not to convert them, they doe not fulfill their Ministery which they have received of the Lord, in all poits, as they should, Colos. 4 17. then they use not the word as pastors, for all uses, for reproofe, for correction, for instruction, for righte∣ousnesse, 2 Tim. 3. 16. nor doe they as pastors, preach in season and out of season, by reproving, rebuking, exhorting. (2) Then must all pastorall feeding formally be in confirming only, not in feeding, nor begetting to Christ, nor in restoring the lost, nor in bringing againe the driven away, nor in all these five points, Ezek. 35. 4. which are ascribed to Christ, who feedeth in his sent pa∣stors, ver. 15. 16. Micah 5. ver. 4. nor in delivering the sheep Page  37 from the Lion and the wild beasts. Now this distinctions should be proved from the word of truth. 2. Then Pastors as watch∣men give not warning of the sword, and of dying in sin, as Ezech. 3. 16, 17, 18, 19 20. Ezech. 33. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, &c. but as unofficed men, and private Christians. But that, way all the citizens of the city shall be made watchmen, which the Prophet Ezechiel and Ieremiah condemn, Ierem. 23. Ezech. 33. But it may be said, if Pastors as Pastors must instruct gain-sayers of the truth, as 2 Tim. 2. 25. then may gain-sayers of the truth be Church-members; but the latter is absurd.

Answ. It followeth not, this onely followeth, Pastors may instruct gain-sayers and unconverted men, and intend their con∣version in a Church-way, by preaching and otherwayes, viz. as pastors, but if these gain-sayers were Pagans and visible op∣posing Jews, they are not Church-members, nor can they be admitted while they remain such.


Mr Hookers second Inference.

MIstakes in judgment and practice do not hinder men from be∣ing*visible saints.

Answ. It is too loosely spoken, without further explanation. All heresies that are works of the flesh, as Socinianisms, &c. are called mistakes in judgment; and this may infer toleration of all Religions, and that men corrupt in their judgment may be truly godly; wheras soundness in the faith is a special part of godliness, nor can a good conscience and a sound faith be separated; see Mr Gillespie, Miscellanie quest. chap. 12. pag. 142, 143. and con∣sider whether then most of the Sectaries of our time may not be members of visible Churches at least; such a weighty point in one word, should not have been determined, nor can it be a sound inference.

Page  38Third Inference.

The holding of the visible Churches in England to be true Chur∣ches (suppose it were an errour, as it is not) doth not hinder men*from being fit matter for a visible Church.

Answ. If it be no errour, to say that the Churches of Eng∣land are true Churches, then is it true; and why is it then unlaw∣ful to enter in Church-fellowship with them; the contrary of which Mr H. proveth par. 1. ch. 12. pag. 32, 33. 2. Why doth Mr H. teach that the seals ought not to be gven to Church-mem∣bers of old England of approved piety, except they be inchur∣ched their way: this saith that Mr H. holdeth that all that are not inchurched their way are no Church-members.

Whether Mr Rutherfurd doth unjustly mpute to Separatists that they hold that onely such as are effectually called, justified and sanctified, to be the onely matter of a rightly constituted Church.

Mr Hooker par. 1. ch. 2. pag. 20, 21, 22, &c. complaineth of Mr Rutherfurd that he dealeth not fairly and candidly with the brethren of the separation and others, and saith that they teach that onely internally justified ones are the matter of the true visible Church; and he alledgeth passages out of Mr Ainsworth and Mr Robinson, who though they speak in too narrow expres∣sions, yet mind no such thing; for then they should be all chosen and elected that are members of the visible Church; which in words they openly deny.

Answ. I am conscious to my self of nothing, but a fair and Christian dealing with these godly men against whom I writ, and all that Mr H. bringeth, citations from Mr Ains∣worth and Mr Robinson, I acknowledge in words saith the con∣trary of what I alledge, and I know it to be so; but is it any thing against pious moderation, that I prove that their argu∣ments contradict their conclusion? and that one place of M. Ro∣binson contradicteth another; is it against pious moderation that Chamier, Pareus, Iunius, Amesius, object to Bellarmine and to Papists (though I judge there be some difference in the matter) contradictions, that they writ things contrary to their Page  39 own grounds, and to things which they in open words peremporily*deny, as Mr Hooker speaketh, pag. 21, I confess if I make these contradictions not to appear, I wrong them either wilfully, which were in me wickedness; or if of ignorance, it is much weaknesse and more.

But 1. as Mr Hooker bringeth citations from Mr Answorth, Mr Robinson, why doth he not from his own writings bring the * like? for I alledge the same against his own way; for the way of the Churches of New England Sct. 3. ch. 3. pag. 56, 57. faith more then the brethren of the separation eve did say. The Lord Iesus is the head of the Church evn the visible Church, and the visible Church is the body of Christ Iesus, 1 Cor. 12. 12. the habitation of God by the Spirit; Ephes. 2. 22. the members of the visible. Church are said to be the temples of the holy Ghost, 1 Cor. 3. 16. espoused to Christ, as a chast virgin, 2 Cor. 11. 2. Sons and daughters of the Lord God almighty, 2 Cor. 6. 18. how can they be members of the body, or the spouse of Christ, &c. ex cept they in charitable disortion be (〈◊〉 indeed the holy Ghost descri∣beth them to be) Saints by calling? 1 Cor. 1. 2. and faithful bre∣thren, Gal. 1. 2. and that not by external profession, for these are too high styles for hypocrites, but in some measure of sincerity and truth.

Let that be answered; These who not onely in point of cha∣rity, and not onely in external profession, but in some measure of sincerity and truth must be the habitation of God by the Spi∣rit, the temple of the holy Ghost &c. or then they cannot be admitted members of the visible Church, must be internally ju∣stified, Page  40 sanctified, and chosen, before they can be members of * the Church visible; but such must all admitted members be, by these places cited by the Churches of N. England. M. H. or his defendants choose what they please, and answer, and I shall be cleared.

2. From this passage, by the way, observe another argument of the Church of N. England. ibid.

Such should be members admitted to the visible Church, as are exhorted to be followers of Paul as dear children, Ephes. 4. 1. so must the arguments be.

I assume; but all visible converts or non converts, all known drunkards, harlots, Atheists, &c. are exhorted to be followers of Paul, yea that exhortation obligeth all the known enemies of God in the visible Church, to be renewed in the spirit of their mind, to be converted from dumb idols to serve the living God, for all are ex∣horted to obey the whole Gospel, heare it, even the scoffing Athenians, Act. 17.

2. I argue from the fifth argument These cannot be judged fit matter for the visible Church, and con••iuting and edifying thereof, who are more fit for the ruine and destruction thereof; such as all hy∣pocrites who will leave their first love, and destroy the Church.

I assume, but all latent hypcrites, such as Iudas and Magus, as wel as open hypocrites, are more fit for the ruine and de∣struction of the Church, and will leave their first love.

If it be said that latent hypocrites appearing to us to be God∣ly and converts, may be judged (mistakingly and erroneously) to be fit materialls for the constituting and edifying of the Church, are men (1) made members of Christs body, and Christ made the head of Magus Iu as, not by Christs command so much as by mens erroneous judgment. (2 Then the visible Church hath all its ess•…nce and nature founded upon judgment that may erre, and upon no certain▪ rule of the word. (3) Then should the Apostles have taken more time, and advised more Page  41 maturely, before they made Magus, Ananias members of the vi∣sible Church.

3. All the arguments brought by M. Hooker and the way of the Churches of N. England and Separatists, doe conclude they must be really and internally sanctified, before they can be such members as are in the Church of Rome, Ephesus, &c. and M. Hooker putteth not a finger to them to answer these that I al∣ledged.

4. Let him answer that which M. Robinson hath pag. 97. all*the Churches that ever the Lord planted consisted of only good, as the Church of the Angels in heaven, and of mankind in paradise. God hath also the same ends in creating and restoring his Churches; and if it were the will of God that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the Church, God should directly crosse himself and his owne ends, and should receive into the visible covenant of grace, such as were out of the visible state of grace, and should plant such in his Church, for the glory of his name, as served for no other use then to cause his name to be blasphemed, pag. 98. In planting of the first Church in the seed of the woman, there were only Saints with∣out any mixture; now all Churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution, and the first is the rule of the rest.

Ans. I now perceive that M. Hooker and his followers in this point defend M. Robinsin and the Separatists, as M. Hooker chap. 2. pag. 20, 21. but I must say these words (thus we have cleared the expressions of our brethren of the separation) must be an ow∣ning of their cause. *

Ans. But M. Hooker should also clear M. Hooker and his own from contradictions, as well as M. Robinson: for M. Ro∣binsons argument must be thus, or nothing.

Such as is the essentiall constitution of the first Church in pa∣radise, in Adam and Evah not yet fallen in sinne, and the Church of the Angels in heaven, before their fall, such must be the constitution of all our visible Churches now, for all Churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution, saith he. I assume.

But the Church in paradise, and of Angels before either of them fell, consisted of only such as were inwardly and effectu∣ally sanctified.

Ergo such must be the constitution of all our visible Churches Page  42 now, to wit, they must consist of only inwardly and effectually sanctified, and free of all sinne.

But the conclusion is absurd, for if so, our visible Churches must be as clean from sinne, as the Church of Angels and of our first parents were, when they were first created, and yet M. Robinson saith pag. 112. for we doubt not but the purest Church up∣on earth may consist of good and bad in Gods eye, of such as are truly sanctified and faithfull, and of such who only for a time, put on the outside and vizard of sanctity; so M. Robinson: the wit of man shall not clear these expressions from contradictions.

2. If it be not the approving and commanding will of God (for of that will given to men who planteth Churches, he must speak, or he speaketh nothing) that the wicked be admitted in∣to the Church, then it is not Gods will that Magus, Demas be admitted into the Church: but this latter is absurd, and con∣trary to both Mr. Robinson Iustif. of Separat. pag. 12. and to Mr. Hookers Survey, par. 1. ch. 2. pag. 23, 24. and contrary to the Scri∣pture, Act. 2. 38, 39, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46. compared with Act. 5. 1, 2. Act. 8. 12, 13, 14. Mat. 22. 8, 9, 10, 12. How is Mr. Robinson now cleared if it be said ay? but Mr. Robinson said, it is not Gods will that persons notoriously (or visibly wicked, should be admitted into the Church. He said not as you repeat his words, leaving out notoriously) It is not Gods will that persons*wicked should be admitted into the Church. I answer it, but this he must say, or he saith nothing at all. For 1. if it were Gods will that wicked persons should be admitted to the Church, then should he crosse himself and his own end, because wicked per∣sons doe no lesse crosse God and his end, the glory of his name, then the notoriously (and visibly) wicked; for both cause his name to be blasphemed, and the force of his argument cannot lie in the no∣toriety or visibility of crossing of Gods end, but in the very crossing of it in it self, see Mr. Ball.

3 Gods creating of the first visible Church of Angels and men without sinne, is not a binding and commanding rule to pa∣stors and to the Church to admit none to the visible Church, but such as God created members of the first visible Church free of all sinne, or because there is a standing obliging rule to Pastors and the Church, such as this (admit not in the Church of Christ Page  43 professed Pagans as members thereof) but to God there was no rule but his free will by which he created the first visible Church of only saints, without any mixture.

Mr. Robinson and Mr. Hooker both doe wildly misconceive (to say no more) the distinction of the Lord his discerning will*or his eternall purpose, and his commanding and revealed will, if they suppose (as their reasoning doth necessarily argue their mind to the judicious Reader) with Socinians and Arminians that every sinne is a crossing of the Lords end and purpose; and that; 2. God decrceth and intendeth many things that shall ne∣ver be; 3. that God may be frustrated of his ends and purposes, and misse the mark in his decrees, though they, I judge, be inno∣cent of any such heresie.

4. If by the will of God be here understood, the commanding will of God which forbiddeth sinne, and enjoyneth what is right, as Mr. Hooker and his, who approve of this constitution of the Separatists with Mr. Robinson, must doe, then must the Lord in commanding his pastors and Church to receive Iudas, Magus, as fit materialls of the visible Church, as Mr. Hocker teacheth pag. 23. expressely command sinne, which is blasphemy, because the holy Lord must command to receive into the visible covenant of grace, such as were out of the visible-state of grace; and such to be planted in his Church, for the glory of his name, as served for no o∣ther use then to cause his name to be blasphemed.


What Mr Hooker fartherbringeth to prove that visible Churches consist of visible Saints.

MAster Hooker, pag. 20. The pinch of the difference lieth in this, whether such as walk in a way of profaneness, or remain pertinaciously obstinate in some wickedness, though other∣ways professing and practising the things of the Gospel, have any allowance from Christ, or may be accounted fit matter according to the termes of the Gospel to constitute a Church, this is that which is controverted.

Page  44Answ: This is a disorderly stating the Question after battl * given. 2. This pinch of a difference of men walking in pagan profaneness (for of such the question must be) whether they should be counted fit matter to constitute a visible Church, though otherwise they profess and practise the things of the Gospel, cometh to this, whether walkers professedly after their Idol-Gods, and yet professing and practising the Gospel, should be counted fit matter of the visible Church: We answer; Such are not the fit matter of the visible Church; and yet are not to be suddenly and wholly debarred from being ordinary hearers, so they profess their willingness to hear. 2. If the question be of such as are baptized and live within the Church as ordina∣ry hearers, who practise and profess the things of the Gospel, we say these are already within the Church by their baptisme and profession, and in regard they remain pertinaciously wick∣ed, though baptized and so professing, they should be unchur∣ched and cast out.

3. That any such as obstinately remain wicked have allowance from Christ, that is, a command to constitute a visible Church as members, is all one as to say, whether commandeth Christ men to be members of the Church, and to be also pertinaci∣ously wicked: which is no plous question, for it is whether doth Christ allow men to be hypocrites? Or if by allowance from Christ Mr Hooker mean, whether doth Christ allow and com∣mand the Pastors to own obstinate wicked men, as members, because they profess and practise the things of the Gospel? We answer, they ought not to admit or baptise Pagans of that sort, and if they be baptised, and so wickedly they profess, they ought to cast them out.

Page  45


Other arguments of Mr Hooker for the constitution of a Church of onely visible Saints.

MAster Hooker, par. 1. ch. 2. pag. 25, 26. * Q. What is required of a man of years to fit him in the judgment of the Church, for baptisme, that and so much is required to make him a member.

But visible holiness is required to fit a man of years to be ba∣ptized.

The consequence admitteth no denial, because to be baptized, and to be admitted a member, infer each other.

The assumption is proved by the constant practise of John Ba∣ptist, Matth. 3. 5, 6. where Jerusalem, Judea, Scribes, people and souldiers came to be baptized of him, they confessed their sins, it was a confession that amounted to repentance; so John verse 7. bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and amendment of life.

Luke 3. 6. What shall we do? the Apostle answers, Acts 2. 38. repent and be baptized; the works of repentance and the aime of baptisme do import as much; remission of sins calleth for such competent knowledge of Christ, as may make way for the sight of the need of a Saviour, and also of a going to him.

Answ. This argument may pass current with these that deny * Infant-baptisme, which Mr H. and his do not; but if to be baptized say that the baptized is a member of the Church, must not either the infants of Church-members be not baptized with them, and so no members of the Church, which is strange? or may I not argue thus with Anabaptists against Mr Hooker? What is required of a man of years to fit him for baptisme in the judg∣ment of the Church, is also required to make him one within the covenant of grace. But onely to be born of believing pa∣rents maketh a man of years in the judgment of the Church, to be within the covenant of grace.

Page  46Ergo, onely to be born of visible parents maketh a man of years fit to be baptized.

The assumption is clear, because that God be our God and the God of our seed, Gen. 17. maketh both parents and children within the covenant, yea also within the visible Church, as the Church of New England truly teacheth, and giveth them right * to baptisme; and when Egypt shall be the people of God, as is foretold, Isai. 19. 25. Egypt is the Church visible, and all their seed, when they so profess, except these two be different, to be professedly Gods people, and to be a visible Church, which cannot be said; and therefore the argument presupposeth a falshood, and beggeth the question: that there is one thing re∣quired of a man of years born within the visible Church, to fit him in the judgment of the Church for baptisme and Church-membership, and another to fit an infant for baptisme and Church-member-ship, when an infant born within the visible Church, by his birth is fitted both for Church-membership in the judgment of charity, and for baptisme; and so the argu∣ment proveth that the children of believing parents must have some new qualification before they can be received members of the Church visible; and yet it is granted their birth made them members of the Church visible; so they are members and not * members.

2. If to be baptized and to be admitteed members, infer each other, to Mr Hooker saith, ergo, all that are baptized are mem∣bers of the visible Church, and all members of the visible Church must be baptized. How then doth the Churches of New Eng∣land refuse multitudes whom they know to be baptized, and came from England to be Church-members? 3. See how Mr Hooker maketh out the assumption; to wit, from the con∣stant course and practise of Iohn Baptist, Math. 3. 5, 6. in which he laieth this as a ground, that in all Iudea and Ierusalem (for Iohn baptized them all, Mark 10. 5.) there was no visible Church, no visible Saints, no converts till Iohn made them such by baptisme. I hold that Christ was born in the visible Church, and that Simon, Anna, Zachariah, Elizabeth, and many others were visible Church-members before Iohn baptized them, and that the Church of the Jews and of baptized Christians were Page  47 both the same visible Church, the one believing professedly in him who was to come, the other in him who was already come.

2. He presumeth that by Iohns baptizing these were framed up in particular Independent congregations, by a Church∣covenant, for this is brought to prove the frame of visible Chur∣ches of New England by Mr Hooker: but how the text speaketh this, who can see, except Mr Hooker himself? for all Judea and Jerusalem were baptized, Mark 1. 5.

4: How proveth he that all the baptized were visible con∣verts that came to Iohn?

Those that confessed their sins, by such a confession as Iohn re∣quired, to wit, which amounted to repentance, and bringing forth fruits worthy of amendment, these were visible converts, before they were baptized.

Yea say I, if the confession amounted so high in the practice of all Iudea, as the precept and command of Iohn required, then all the land of Iudea, Ierusalem, and all the region round about Ierusalem, who were all baptized, Matth. 3. 5, 6. Mark 1. 4, 5. all the people, Luke 4. 21. were not only visible saints, but did all really repent and bring forth fruits worthy amendment of life: for Mr. Hooker his argument is not from the peoples practice, but from Iohns command. Bring forth fruits &c. so Mr. Hooker. They confessed their sinnes, v. 6. it was such a confession as amoun∣ted to repentance; that I confesse is a sea of Charity to all the vi∣sible saints. Now hear how M. Hooker exponeth their practised confession, The Baptist so interprets is, bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and amendment of life. Now sure Iohn commanded never such a confession, as Magus the witch made Act. 8. nor a visible repentance such as maketh a visible saint, but he comman∣ded a reall internall repentance, otherwise saith he, if ye bring not forth good fruit, Matth. 3. ver. 10. see your doome, every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewen down and cast into the fire.

And therefore if the argument stand thus, such a confession 〈◊〉Iohn Baptist commandeth Matth. 3. 6, 7. such must be in all be∣fore Iohn Baptist and the Church can lawfully baptize them, or admit them to the visible Church, otherwise they sinne who bap∣tise Page  48 and receive into the visible Church visible hypocrites.

But Iohn Baptist requireth reall and internall repentance, with∣out which the baptized should be cast into hell fire, Mat. 3. 10.

But the conclusion is so grosse, that Mr. Hooker could not dreame of it.

But the truth is, the precept of Repentance is not given to the Jewes, so as obedience thereunto must be necessarily required before Iohn Baptist can lawfully and without sinne admit them to baptism, and into the Christian visible Church, but for their either more personall and fruitfull receiving of the Sacrament, or farre rather, that they may be saved from the wrath to come, Matth. 3. 10. Luk. 3. 7, 8.

5. And as to that Act. 2. 38. what shall we doe? if it conclude any thing it must have this meaning, men and Brethren what shall we doe, before ye can owne us as visible saints, and baptize us without your hazard of casting pearles before swine? This is to doe violence to the word of God.

But these words (what shall we doe?) must be all one with the like of Saul, Act. 9. 6. and of the Jaylor, Act. 16. 30. what shall we doe to be saved and to obtaine life everlasting, and a due roome in the visible Church of grace here, and at length of glory? and it is clear that repentance which the Apostles command is the course of repentance all their life to be performed, both before and af∣ter baptisme, ver. 40. and with many other words did he testifie and exhort, saying, save your selves from this untoward generation, which is, walk not in the way of this people: and doth Peter advise no repentance, but such visible repentance as was to goe before their baptism? certain he adviseth repentance, new obedience and perseverance therein to their lives end after they should be baptised.

6. As to the ayme of baptism, which is for remission of sinnes, it importeth a confession such as amounteth to repentance reall and true, yea constant and induring to the end, Ergo they were * justified and effectually redeemed in Christ, and persevered therein to the end, before Iohn could baptise them without sinne: how weak are these? and so these huge multitudes were never baptized untill they all died reall converts, and that was never at all; for the Baptist so requires, before they were bap∣tized.

Page  49 7. Who shall believe that when Iohn baptized, Mark 5. all the land of Iudea, and all Ierusalem and Matth. 3 5. all Iudea,*and all the region round about Iordan: and Luk. 4. 21. and all the people; that they were all in Iohn Baptist his judgment of charity, sound believers, and that all these brought forth fruits worthy of amendment of life? and that all these were pardoned and justified in Christ, and that they were the habitation of God through the spirit, as Ephes. 2. 22. when Iohn preacheth to them, even to the multitude that came forth to be baptized, Luk. 3. 7. and to many of the Pharisees and Sadduces as to a generation of vipers, Matth. 3. 7. 2. as to hypocrites that gloried they were A∣brahams sons, and would think they were more then Gods sons, when they were now washen by baptisme, the new seale of the New Testament? 3. as to fruitlesse trees ready to be burnt in hell fire, ver. 10. 4. as to these washen with water by a man, not inwardly baptised by Christ ver. 11. 5. to a visible company in which there were wheat and chaff? certainly Iohn should break the bruised reed, if he preached not to them as to reall sons of Abraham, inwardly baptised, fruitfull trees, and wheat into the Lords barn. 8. Nor is there any warrant to think that they all asked, what shall we doe? and did all bring forth fruit worthy amendment, and that the Pharisees and Sadduces who came to be baptized, Matth. 3. 7. did bring forth such fruits, before Iohn could baptise them, Act. 2. they were baptized the same day: neither must that passe, which our brethren say, that Iohn repelled not only the Scribes and Pharises, Matth. 3. 7. but al∣so the prophane people from baptism, as those who were a generation of vipers, and had not yet brought forth fruits meet for repentance, ver. 7, 8.

Ans. Let the Text speak, Mark 1. 5. And there went out un∣to him all the land of Iudea, and they of Ierusalem, and they Page  50〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 were all baptized. Matthew saith chap. 3. v. 7. And seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadduoes come to his baptism, he said, Ge∣neration of vipers, who hath forewarned you to flee from the wrath to come? which argueth rather that he admitted them; but as Calvin well sayeth, he citeth them before the inner tribunal of their consci nce, that they may severely examine themselves, Luk. 3. 7. he said the same to all the multitude that came to be baptized, but especially to he Pharisees, but that Iohn refused to baptize them, there is not one word in the Text, but the contrary, Mark 1. 5. Luk 3. 2. Matth. 3. 3. I deny not, but Beza, Pareus, Piscator, on Matth. 4. say that Iohn admitted none to baptism but such as they judged worthy; but that such worthinesse was reall regeneration in the judgement of Iohn, no Divine sayeth. But withall Piscator sayeth on Mark, That Bellarmine hath no ground for auricular confession. It is not probable that Iohn sought a publick confession of secret sinnes. Now it is known, Mr. Hooker the book of Discipline of N. England requires farre beyond auricular confession. The Rhemists speak just almost in the language of M. H. confessing their sinnes, not acknow∣ledging themselves in generall to be sinners, but also uttering every man his sinnes, M. H. They confessed their sinnes. ver. 6. it was such a confession as amounted to repentance. And their own words evidence as much. Luk. 3. 5, 6. What shall we doe? if it was such a repentance as Iohn commanded; and such it was (sayeth M. H.) Then it was reall and constant, enduring to the end. And this is more charity bestowed upon Iudea, then the Iesuites of Rhemes give them; for they are content to stay within a pre∣cept (M. H. sayeth all Iudea repented) He preacheth repentance (say they) by doing worthy fruits or works of penance. Now M. H. must make this confession, if it amounted to repentance, most particular of all and every one of them, which D. Fulke sayeth was impossible; and Cartwright, that it was common not full, and proveth it by many arguments: and sure, that multitude must have lived upon locusts and wild honey, that Iohn might have been satisfied with their spirituall good estate as lively stones, as our brethren speak, our brethrens confession must have as long a space, to wit, seven yeares, as D. Fulke sayeth anricular con∣fession would have taken.

Page  51 Some bring the place Luk. 7. 29. to prove that Iohn refused * to admit the Pharisees to baptism.

But that place sayeth it was their sinne who would not be baptized, and so despised the counsel of God, whereas the Publi∣cans glorified God, being baptized with the baptism of Iohn, ver. 29, 30. as Calvin well observeth, comparing the Publicans and Pharisees together. See Diodti and the English Divines; for it is not holden forth as their punishment, that Iohn debarred them as unworthy. Yea all that came to be baptized, Mat. 3. Mark 1. Luk. 3. were baptized. Nor is it of weight, that Philip sayeth, Act. 8. Thou mayest be, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, be baptized, if thou wilt, so the word noteth, Matth. 12. 24. ver. 10. 12. Matth. 14. 4. Matth. 19. Matth. 20. 15. Matth. 22. 17. Matth. 27. 6. Mark. 2. 24. ver. 26. Luk. 6. 2. Ioh. 6. 9. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Ioh. 5. 10. Ioh. 18 31. There is no shadow, in the Text, that the lawfulnesse is referred to Philip his act of baptizing, as if Philip might without sinne baptize; as if I should say, I Philip cannot lawfully baptize thee except them believe with all the heart; but it is clearly referred to the Eunuches believing. For 1. Philip had more ground of the soundnesse of the Eunuches profession so as he might lawfully have baptized him, then he had to baptize Magus; finding the holy Ghost had directed Philip to goe to him, Act. 8. 29, 30. 2. He found him reading Scripture, and desirous to know the mea∣ning of it, 36. and destrous to be baptized (3.) There is no shadow of reason in the Text, that it was a case of conscience to the Ennuch, whether it was Philips sinne to baptize him, except he knew he had true faith; but clearly he himself doubted whether he might be baptized, or not, 3. Philip requireth of the Eunuch reall believing with all the heart; but visible believing as Ma∣gus had, was sufficient for Philip to baptize without sinne in the baptizer.

Page  52 Quest. What ignorance exoludeth from Church membership?

M. H. That ignorance which maketh persons to be no Church,*that will hinder a person from being a member. But there is a simple ignorance of points fundamentall, that maketh Papists that never heard the Gospell, and so have not wilfully rejected it (sayeth M. R.) to be no members of the Church.

As, M. H. To be admitted a member and to be baptized (sayeth * he pag. 20.) inferreth each one another. But all the members of the Church of Rome (sayeth he par. 1. c. 5. pag. 59) have received true Baptisme. Let M. H. answer M. H. 2. That ignorance that hinde∣reth persons to be no Church visibly professing, will hinder persons to be true members of the visible professing Church. The proposition is denyed; for infants (sayth Calvin) baptized are so ignorant, and they are admitted members (say our brethren) in and with * their parents, 3. M. R. speaketh of the visible Church, of which Papists ignorant of fundamentalls, are not members.


How profession doth notifie conversion.

Mr. H. That profession which must notifie to the Church, that a person is a true believer, that must notifie that he hath*true grace. But the profession that M. R requireth, must notifie to the Church that he is a true believer, pag. 196. Faith giveth right to the seales; profession, to speake acuately, doth only notifie to the Church that the man hath right to the seales. So M. R.

Ans. What is in question to M. R. it is one thing to be a * Church-member, as infants and fixed hearers are; and another thing to be by profession, capable of both the seales: the latter are such determinate Church-members, or Church-members in speciall, but all members are not capable of both seales.

2. The profession that M. R. requireth doth notifie, M. R. said not, Faith must notifie to the Church that a person is a true believer, before he can be admitted a member of the Church by the Church. And that is the question now. Not what profession doth notifie simply; but what it must notifie to the Church be∣fore Page  53 the Church can lawfully admit them to be members. M. R. never said that; nor sayeth M. R. That not every profession, but that which is apparently true doth notifie so much, and that which is only savoury to the godly. 2. As also M. H. addeth to my words, the adjective, True, which is not in my words; yea I teach that the profession of Demas, Magus, doth not no∣tifie that they are true believers: And though visible profession should notifie true faith, it is not necessary that it must offer to judicious charity such overweighing evidences as the Church cannot lawfully admit Magus a member, but they must first positively judge him a reall convert; and the like Iohn must judge of all Iury whom he baptized. 3. Since M. H speaketh of admission to the seales in the plurall number, he must mean both the seales; Hence let this quaere be answered by our bre∣thren, whether they think that profession doth notifie to a cha∣ritable * judgement that all infants of Church-members, because born of Church-members, are reall converts. If so, birth must give conversion, and David must give to Absalom conversion by birth. 2. All infants so born must be regenerate; but expe∣rience and Scriptures teach that many so born turn Apostates, and prove sonnes of perdition. How our brethren shall free themselves of some baptismall regeneration, and of the apostacy of the justified and truly sanctified, let them consider, and the sound Reader judge; for our brethren tell us, it is not lawfull to put the seale upon a blank.

Page  54


Of degenerate members of the Church.

A Church constituted of fit matter may be corrupted by their breaking forth into scandals, as is clear in Corinth, Galatia, Sardis, and the Church of the Iewes, to whom the Lord threatneth*a bill of divorce, Hos. 22. and there is a necessity of toleration un∣till by a judiciall proceeding the evill be tryed, the party convinced, or out off.

Ergo the corrupting of a Church constitute gives no allowance to bring in corrupt members: but by the contrary, if a pentinaclo•• member should be removed, then such a member should not be ad∣mitted.

Ans. 1. This is the argument of Mr. Robinson, and most are borrowed from Separatists and Anabaptists in this theme, if such as are known to be no visible members must be tolerated, untill censures be applied and they convinced or cut off, in that intervall the Church must either give the seales to them, and their seed, or not. If the former be said, then must the Church knowingly prophane the holy things of God. And so visible members as visi∣ble saints, and under that formall reduplication as visible con∣verts, are not admitted to the Church, but as tolerated scanda∣lous persons, upon whom the Church bestowes Church-ad∣mission and seales, untill it be seen they are converts visible, which destroyeth a principall pillar of the brethrens way. If the latter be said, that the seales are to be denyed to them and to their seed, in the intervall, then the visible Saintship so judged is not the formall reason of membership and Church-privi∣ledges, * to wit, of seales; for hence seales are denyed to such members as are seen to be scandalous, but not casten out, which againe destroyeth the same principle. 2. The argument presup∣poseth that none are excommunicate, but under the formall reason of visible non-converts. Ergo David, Peter, and such are Page  55 undoubtedly visible converts, cannot be excommunicate for adulterie or murther, though visible they remaine as to all o∣ther things (save in the matter of Uriah, and the one particular scandall for which they are excommunicate, sound and savoury saints) but the Church must judge David, Peter, and all such * whom they excommunicate, non-converts and unchosen to glory; which is against the brethrens way also: for if none be admitted Church-members, but such as according to the com∣mand and revealed will of God are judged converts visible; Ergo all casten out are no members, and so non-converts, and should not have been admitted but holden out, though in other things they be visible converts. 3. M. H. cannot produce any argu∣ment of M. R. wherein he argueth simply from corrupted and degenerate members, such as the Jewes were, Act. 13. who blaspheme, contradict and openly put away the Gospel, that such may be admitted and planted in Churches. But Sardis, for the few names therein, is one of the seven visible Churches and golden Candlesticks among which Christ walks, Rev. 3. and M. Hooker yeilds the seales were due to these members and their feed, though they had a name of living members and were dead, so they were not visibly scandalous; but M. R. his argument is not brought, but a new one, for M. R. saith that God made a covenant, Deu. 29. with the body of the people for the elects sake, said to be hard, blind, D••. 29. 3. stiff-necked, Deu. 31. 27. a that time but professed repentance, Deu. 29.

3. Our Saviours aime and decree or intention of saving (which is hidden from us) and the Lords deep dispensation in long bearing with the Church of the Jewes, and calling them Lo-ammi, not my people, Hos. 2. (for that he cites) is no rule to us, but the revealed will; nor is the Church to forbear to * censure so long as God punisheth not; yea then should the Priests have admitted into the Temple the worshippers of Baal, such as offered in the high places to other strange Gods; for God cast not the people of the Jewes nor such Idolaters utterly off at that time, but he sent Prophets to them. And there is a farre other consideration of a whole Church, and of Iezabel a single person. He will not remove his candlestick from Sardis, but he offends that Iezabel is not casten out.

Page  56


The answers of Mr. Hooker to the arguments of Mr. Ru∣therfurd are discussed and disapproven. The places Acts 2. 37, 38. &c. And Magus his admission, Act. 8. 15. considered.

FIrst Argument. In the first receiving of members by the Apo∣stles, there was but a professed willingnesse to receive the Go∣spel howbeit seme received it not from the heart.

M. H. answereth; There was not only a professed willingnesse, but a practicall reformation, that in the judgement of charity giveth grounds of hope that there is something reall, before the contrary ap∣peare; Therefore Peter who received Magus upon his approbation of the truth, and outward conformity thereunto in the course of his life, rejected him as one in the gall of bitternesse, who had no share in Christ, and therefore certainly would not suffer him in the privi∣ledges of communion, so persisting without repentance.

Ans. 1. Not professed willingnesse, but also practicall reforma∣tion is required. But is not professed willingnesse in murtherers * of Christ, who said, What shall we doe to be saved, some practi∣call reformation? There is nothing but conjectures, that the A∣postles did not admit all and every one of the three thousand, untill they had experience of their state of grace. and judicially determined*so of them all. 2. This practicall reformation was not an experi∣ence of their practise of savoury walking, required by M. H. p. 1. cap. 2. pag. 14, 15. in visible saints before admission, except some four or five houres time may create an habituall experi∣ence, for the same very day they were baptized, Acts 2. 41. (3) M. H. should prove that the Apostles found this practicall re∣formation in all, Ananias, Saphira, and the whole 3000; and that the Apostles tryed and smelled the savourinesse of saving grace in all; in Saphira, the Text giveth not the least jot of this, we mu take it upon the naked assertion of M. H. 4) That this practi∣call reformation gave to the Apostles judgement of charity ground Page  57 of hope, that there was something reall, that is, the whole number about three thousand (none excepted, for all were made Church-saints visible) gave grounds of hope that they were all really (otherwise their speaking and hearing the word was reall, that is, not imaginary) internally and effectually called, and born over againe of the spirit, and so chosen to life eternall from e∣ternity, before the Apostles durst without the offending of God admit them to Church-fellowship and visible communion; those (I say) must be proven. If I durst, I am not farre from judging the godly and judicious in cold blood, free of heate of dispute, dare not so judge of the Text, Acts 2. or Acts 8. (5) There is no shadow Acts 8. that Peter (M. H. should say Philip) ad∣mitted*not Magus while he saw such grounds of the sorcerers reall conversion and reall predestination to glory (6) Peter said that Magus had no share in Christ. True, but said he that he was an unbaptized man who had no share in the visible Church? No. (7) But he would not suffer Magus to share in the priviledges of communion, he persisting without repentance.

True, but it is no answer to the argument from the manner of receiving in, this is something to the casting out, (8) that Peter reproveth him in the gall of bitternesse. 2. Exhorts him to repent, to pray for pardon, were great priviledges of Church-communion * bestowed upon Magus.

The practise of the Apostolick Church is to be considered in three cases. The 1. Case is.

1. When Churches are gathered out of Churches, for exam∣ple, out of Galatia, Ephesus, where infants are born and baptised * Church-members within the visible Church, hence we seek a warrant, why these who were once members of the visible * Church and baptized, as the answer to the 32 sayeth, and so clean and holy, 1 Cor. 7. 14. Rom. 11. 16. (2) In covenant with God, Acts 2. 38, 39. Act. 15. 14, 15. Gen. 17. 7. 2 Cor. 6. 16, 17, 18. &c. (3) And so redeemed by the blood of Christ and baptized into his body, 1 Cor. 12. 13. even unto Christ, Gal. 3. 17. Act. 2. 38, 39. when they come to age, are for no scandall unchurched, and because they cannot give evidence of reall conversion, yet for 60. or 80. years, and to their dying day, are no more Church-members then Pagans?

Page  58 2. How could ye baptize Pagans? They are so straited with this, that many among them call for Bishopping or confirma∣tion againe. 3. How is it that you once baptized them Church-members and within the Covenant, and so baptized them but for the foresaid want? How is it now (1) You teach, exhort, rebuke, comfort them, and you have no Pastorall call to them more then to Pagans? (2) How, or what calling, or what sort of officers are your Pastors to them? or who called you to take care and watch for their souls who are without, and to you as Pagans? (3) How can you offer Christ all the day long to Pa∣gans? 4. If they refuse to hear the Gospel, you cannot judge them, for they are without, 1 Cor. 5. 12. to you; and Christian * Magistrates cannot compell them that are without to the means of grace by your way.

The second Case is.

When the Apostles came with the Gospel to the Gentiles, Act. 14. 47, 48. to Lystra and Derbe, Act. 14. 6, 7. to Philippi, Act. 16. 12. to Corinth, Act. 18. 6, 7, 8, 9. to Ephesus, Act. 19. 9, 10. &c. our brethren must prove, 1. That the Apostles first teached to them as no officers, having no Pastorall care of their souls, untill they were in the judgement of charity reall con∣verts, and then they preached to them as Church-members: (2) And untill they were satisfied in conscience of the good spirituall e∣state one of another, as lively stones to be laid upon the spirituall building, as their way teacheth; And untill they in their practise and profession (if we look sayeth M. Hooker) in their course accor∣ding to what we see by experience, or receive by report and testi∣mony from others. Or lastly, look we at their expressions, favour so much as though they had been with Jesus. And 3. The A∣postles knew not any such thing in visible converts, as that they should form themselves from an intrinsecall power in themselves into an organicall body and ordaine their own El∣ders; for to draw this out of any thing we find in Scripture is done with as great difficulty, as to extract water out of a stone; all we find the Apostles did was to preach Christ to them, and an interval of time, as is clear after Act. 13. 14 they had preached Page  95 the Gospel, Act. 14. 6. ver. 21. they returned to Lystra, and to *Iconium, and to Antioch; and ver. 23. and ordained Elders in every Church: all which times it appeareth they were visible Churches without seales, and when they preached the Gospel to the aged, and it was received by a profession of faith sincere, whether really or supposed only, presently without delay (as is well observed by M. R. Baxter in his accurate treatise) they baptize Magus, Act. 8. 12. 13. such as hear the word, among * whom were Ananias and Saphira, who were baptized members, Act. 2. 41, 45. compared with Act. 4. 33, 34. and Act. 5. 1, 2, 3, 4. &c. they baptize Cornilius and his house, Act. 10. 44, 47, 48. When the Corinthians and Crispus and his house believed, they were baptized, and the Jayler and his house, Act. 16. 30, 31, 32, 33. Lydia and her house, ver. 14. 15. And the Eunuch having heard the word and believing was baptized, Act. 8. 35, 37, 38. when the multitude hear Iohn and confesse their sinnes they are baptized, Mark 1. 5. and that without any such conjectures of the congregationall way of trying members, as is above said.

The third Case is,

When the Christian Church is framed out of the visible Church; and in this I propound these considerations (1) Act. 2. There is no such processe as M. H. talks of, pag. 14. 15. (2) No hint of a covenant to a single Congregation, except ye speak of a baptismall Covenant. (3) The Apostles shall not act as A∣postles,* but in an erring way, choosing Ananias and Saphira re∣probate mettall in this first Temple, and say, that they acted as Pastors ordinary in a Church way and fallibly, it is not to be supposed, that they more de facte actually erred, and that they thrust in chalke stone, and rotten timber, apt to destroy the whole building, such as were Ananias and Saphira, in the first samplar, then they erred in making heterodox and erroneous acts, Act. 15. in their first samplar of Synods, and yet we prove they acted not as infallible Apostles in that Synod, but by a fal∣lible and ordinary gift, yet so that de facto actually they erred not. (4) Any man judge of M. Hookers words pag. 30. that Pe∣ter required of these 3000. to repent and be baptized, accor∣ding Page  60 to the like call of Christ, and that Philip saw the like in Magus, ere he baptized him, and that the Apostles had a large measure of spirituall discerning; But if their discerning was put out in admitting none but such as they judged to be reall con∣verts, it failed in this, and they laid hands suddenly in few hours space upon Ananias and Saphira: and so did Iohn Baptist upon an huge multitude, Matth. 3 Mark. 1. Luk. 4. nay their admit∣ting of such, whereas their eminency of discerning could have framed the first samplar of Church-constitution without one hypocrite, sayeth to me. That it is the revealed will and intent of the Lord, that men usurp not the chairs of Christ to passe a sentence upon the inward state of Church-members, before they be admitted into his work-house of conversion. Yea it is destructive to the Lords end to close the gates upon many heirs of glory, and lock fast the doores of Christs office-house, his vineyard, his kingdome, his house, upon multitudes to be saved and wrought upon and espoused to Christ, after they are un∣churched, untill they be visible converts, 2 Cor. 11. 1, 2, 3, 4. Gal. 4. 19. (5) The Apostles are accurate in trying of some Church-members, to wit, of Elders and Deacons, and bid re∣ceive some, and reject others, Act. 6. 13. Act. 13. 2, 3. 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2, 3, 4. &c. 10, 11, 12. Tit. 1. 9, 10, 11. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 17, 22. But shew us rule, Canon, precept, practise of Apostles, for judiciall electing of Church-members; yea to me it is one act of the Lords deep providence in the execution of his decrees of election and reprobation; for when the Lord sends the word of his kingdome to a Nation, and calls them, and they professe to hear, there hath the Lord a visible kingdome, and the Lord builds his house, not Moses, not Paul. (6) The place Act. 2. pleads more for a reall and internall repentance, and continued * and prorogated all their life, ver. 46, 47. they abiding in the A∣postles doctrine and fellowship stedfastly, 42. then for a visible re∣pentance in the judgement of charity, though we exclude not visible repenting of some, but in our brethrens sense, visible repenting, i. e. reall and sincere, so farre as the judgement of charity can reach. 2. Reall and sincere repenting of all and e∣very one. 3. Antecedently and before admission to Church∣membership, we ever exclude, and we say there is not one JotPage  61 in the word, that the Apostles had such a judgement of Ana∣nias, Magus; and our brethren cannot prove it. The believing of Magus and his adent continuing with Philip, Act. 8. 13. with eagernesse, as dogs in hunting to follow the prey, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉*Beza cites Mar. 3. 9. Budaeus to stick to any as an assidu∣ous convey, proveth not what M. Lock r sayeth; for Luke in∣spired by the holy Ghost, who needeth not borrow the judge∣ment of charity, but seeth the heart, testifieth of Magus that he believed in his way. All our Divines, Calvin, Gualther, Pis∣cator,*Marlorat, Beza, Brentius, Bullingerus, Pomeranus, Sar∣crius, Diodati, English Divines, say, it was but an historicall and temporary faith; if the holy Ghosts meaning were that Magus did savingly believe, we shall not eschew the Apostasy of true believers. The Text saith not that Magus savingly believed to the judgement of Philip, and the Church of Sa∣maria; they saw his faith as they saw his wondring in his clea∣ving to Philip, and yet this our brethren must prove. Now they saw only such a faith, in the effects, as the Text speaks of; but the Text speaks of a temporary faith: but that they believed the sorcerers temporary faith to be saving faith, and would not otherwayes have baptized him, that M. Hooker and M. Lockyer conjecture; but in the Text, there is no shadow of such a thing; had there been praying with liberty, and in the holy Ghosts strong perswasion, much labour of glorying in tribulation, re∣joycing with joy unspeakable, by selling all and following the Gospel, something had been said, and if the Church had refu∣sed without these to baptize him. (7) I retort the argument thus.

Such should be the members of the visible Church before they be admitted, as Peter requireth the thousands to be before they were admitted members: But Peter requireth of the 3000. re∣all repentance; Repent and be baptized, &c. Yea such repen∣tance * as thereby their anxious conscience might be satisfied, who asked, Men and brethren what shall we doe? Ah, we slew the Lord of glory. Ergo, The members of our Church must have reall, not visible repentance only, before the Church can admit them. But the conclusion is absurd even to the Anabaptists. The proposition is M. Hookers and our brethrens in terminis;Page  62 the assumption is the holy Ghosts, Act. 2. Yea and the cha∣racters of reall conversion, Act. 2. are spoken by Luke inspired of God, not in relation to the fallible discerning of Apostles. There are not only visible signs, but 1. hearing, 2. saying, Men and brethren what shall we doe? 3. joyning in ordinances with the Apostles, 4. Some expressing of joy in hearing the word, possibly in their countenance. The rest were reall, 1. They were pricked in heart, not visibly, but really, so Calvin, Bez, Gual∣ther,*Sarcerius, Brentius, Bullingerus; as also before them, Chry∣sostome, Hieronymus, Cyrillus, Hierosolomytanus; this cannot but be reall.

(2) They were added unto the Church. M. H. granteth, that the holy Ghost in Luke spoke this. Now the Apostles acting as ordinary Pastors in a fallible way (as our brethren say they acted here) could not see this internall adding made by the Lord, ver. 47. The Lord added to the Church, &c. he added not Ananias and Saphira thus; and their receiving the word with gladnesse of heart, ver. 47. must be reall and internall gladnesse of heart, as their eating of bread with gladnesse and singlenesse of heart; all which as they were not visible to the Apostles, so be∣ing reall must be ascribed by an ordinary figure, to the greatest part. Now that Ananias and Saphira were such reall members pricked in heart, or received the word with joy, Luke sayeth not. But M. H sayeth it without warrant of the word.

Page  63


Other arguments of M. H. and his answers are considered; as of the draw-net.

Mr. H. pag. 28, 29. to arg. 2. If the visible Church be a draw-net, where are fish and filth; a house where are vessels*of gold, and baser vessels of wood and brasse; then a rightly consti∣tuted Church there may be where are believers and hypocrites.

Ans. The argument is wholly yeilded, and the cause not touch∣ed, much lesse concluded, as may appeare by the state of the question in a right meaning.

Ans. 1. This argument may be wholely yielded, but is not my * argument; I referre the Reader to the place of my book where this is first propounded. The argument is much mistaken, and is not drawen from visible Churches, as they are de facto, and through abuse, though I speak to that also, which I am willing * to dispute with any who will defend M. H. in his survey. My argu∣ment is from visible Churches as they were at first planted and con∣stituted lawfully, and to all that read with any considerable atten∣tion, planted according, not to the permissive decree of God, according to which I tell M. Barrow, many hypocrites are de facto in the visible Church lawfully constitute; but according to * the revealed will of precept. Hence take the argument accor∣ding to my mind; if the visible kingdome and Church of Christ at both its first planting in fieri, and its after constitution in facto esse, consist not according to the decree, but even accor∣ding to the revealed and approving and commanding will of God, of good fish and of bad, and filth; and of vessels of honour and of dishonour: then the visible Church consisteth not of such Saints only as must be reall converts in the judgement of charity. But the former is true, M. H. might have known that I of purpose closed up this mouse-hole, non semel, not once, but * twenty times; the proposition is from the scope of the Parable, which, as worthy Calvin sayeth, that nikil novum &c. that our Saviour teacheth no new thing, but by a new similitude, the Page  64 same which he taught in the parable of the tares, only as Mr. Dickson hath judiciously observed. That hence the visible * Church in the way of gathering members, and manner of con∣stitution thereof is like a draw-net, taking in a I who professe subjection to Christ in his ordinances good and bad. To which as for the purpose, it is also most false, that the Lord tacit∣ly commands such Pastors as cast out the net of the preached Gospell, to fish no souls in a Pastorall Church-way, but these * who in their judgement of charity, savour of being with Iesus (as sayeth M. H. survey par. 1. c. 2. pag. 14, 15) and so are good fish and reall converts. Whereas the Lord commands Pastors not to look whether they be converted or not in their judge∣ment; leave that to God, and call in as many as ye find, Matth. 22. 9. Luk. 14. 17, 18, 23. Call in fools and simple ones, Prov. 9. 4. which indeed to M. Hooker is a sinne and a prophaning of the holy things of God. O saith M. H. Beware ye Pastorally call any, or preach to any Pastorally but such as in charity you judge converts; and these only and none other, sayeth M. Lckyer. As for the Parable of the tares, Let them grow untill harvest. Parus* (most judiciously) he forbids not to use discipline simply, but use it not so, with such rigor, or imprudently, when the wheat is in hazard to be plucked up, but use it not when the wheat may be hurted and rooted out. 2. The conceit of degenerated members to be tole∣rated for a while, will not help the matter; for the draw-net of the preached Gospel is to be cast out at the first admission of members, before the members be degenerated. 3. How shall our brethren make it out that the bad noteth the latent hypo∣crites only, that are not seen, because they are under the wa∣ter? but the bad noteth aswell the open hypocrites: and so did the Donatists answer Augustine, as our brethren doe; but Au∣gustine replyed that the Church is the barne-floore where the * wheat is hid and the chaffe seen. But, sure, the preachers are not to be led by their own judgement, who are really good, or really non converts and bad: for it is the command of Christ, that the bad, that is the non-converted be brought in, that they may be converted and keeped in (except the whole lump be in danger to be infected) that they may be made good.

Page  65 Mr. H. p. 29. The like may be said to the man who came with∣out the wedding garment, he carried it so cunningly that none per∣ceived*it but the Master.

Ans. Mr. H. must say, The servants judged him once to have a wedding garment, else they should not have invited him to come. Saith the Text that, or Mr. H. onely? If the former, then they sin who invite, and call externally any but such as have a wedding garment: So the Donatists said. 2. Mr. H. contradicts his own Book of Discipline expresly. The rest of my arguments are above vindicated.

Mr. H. p. 31. The examples of Solomon tolerating Idolatry,*of Asa breaking out into persecution, hurt Mr. R. cause, for then the openly scandalous may be received in.

Ans. These Kings obstinately persisting in such evils, are nei∣ther to be admitted, nor kept in: how far Solomon strayed is hard to determine. Amesius, after P. Martyr, teacheth, That * he neither worshipped Images, nor believed them to be God, nor brought them to the Temple. Augustine excuseth him, that he fell as Adam, to please his wives. Asa at his worst was fitter to be admitted a Member, than Magus at his best; nor can the time of Asa his continuing obstinately in these evils, be well known.

M. H. M. Ruthurfurd maintain, That such as are admitted must 1. Not be scandalous: 2. Must be baptized after the order of Christ: 3. They must, by their profession, notifie that they are true believers.

Ans. How they are not scandalous, how baptized in Christs order, and so must repent for their own personal comfort and salvation, is to be tried: Ergo, They must be to us real converts before they be admitted, is a feeble consequence. The third I never require before they be admitted Members: M. cannot reade that in my writings, but forged it of his own, as is an∣swered by me.

Mr. H. p. 32, 33. If I must not enter willingly into any un∣necessary Page  66 civil society, with such as have a shew of godliness, and*deny the power thereof, and such as are named brethren, but are idolatrous; far less should I enter into a spiritual society of faith with them.

Ans. What this reasoning meaneth, I know not. But 1. it is unlawful to you to enter your self a visible married Member of that Church, where one is to be admitted who is known to * be a scandalous hypocrite, as he is described 2 Tim. 3 1, 2, 3. Yea, suppose in all Churches you finde some scandalous, you are to joyn to some visible Church on earth.

But this is 1. Unlawful: for say that one would refuse to * marry any at all, because no woman on earth could satisfie his minde, hardly could that single life be lawful, if God give not the gift of continency. But say it were lawful to live single, and to marry none, because of such humorous impediments, yet it cannot be lawful to live out of all Church-fellowship, without all Church-ordinances, suppose you were in an Island where one onely Church is. 2. Suppose one be married, and fixedly joyned to such a Congregation, and divers Members turn like the Members of the Church of Sardis, divers become such as are 2 Tim. 3. 2. Lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, &c. the Apostle saith, We are to turn away from such: now the Elders and Flock re∣fuse to c•… them out. If that turning away 2 Tim. 3. be meant of separating from the Church, we must not turn away from them, except the Church to which we were married give us leave, which were strange. And it is like this is not Mr. Hookers sense; for he maketh it less free to turn away from a Church to which you are married, than not to joyn to it; as it is less free to the man to leave the wise to whom he is once mar∣ried, than not to marry: and so he makes the Church a Prison.

Page  67 As for the place 1 Cor. 5. he forbids intire conversing with the Excommunicate; Bullinger, he forbiddeth intimate fellow∣ship * with them. Mayer saith, it is the arguing of Anabaptists (which yet pious Mr. H. here followeth) We should not eat with them: Ergo, we should not joyn in Church duties with them. But Augustine citeth Cyprian, Because we see tares in the Church, yet let us not separate from the Church; for, saith Augustine, When the godly and the wicked partake of the same Sa∣crament, neither the cause nor the person is hurt. Entring in Church-fellowship, some one or other, though there be some scandalous persons tolerated and desended in all the Churches, is not voluntary, as to marry or not to marry, but a necessary Ordinance of God: for he lives as a heathen, in a condition of sinning, who is a Member of no visible Church.

Mr. H. These are not sufficient requisites in one to be a Mem∣ber, which may be in a drunkard, who is not to be a Member, but to be cast out; Ergo, to be kept out. But these three assigned by Mr. R. 1. To profess the Faith. 2. Eagerly to desire the Seals. 3. To desire Church-fellowship, counting it a disparagement not to be born again, if not admitted to the Sacraments, may agree to a drunkard.

Ans. For the ordinary drunkard, he is either born and ba∣ptized in the Church, or he is a Pagan and an ordinary drunk∣ard having these three. If the former be said, he is born a Mem∣ber of the Church, and so the question is concerning his casting out, not concerning his receiving in. I confess, I know not how Mr. H. could answer the question himself, concerning children born in their Church of Parents, Father, Mother, that are Church Members, though such live 60 or 70 years never baptized, and have these three requisites, and be free of gross scandals, they could not admit such to the Lords Supper. The Page  68 Ministers should have some extraordinary call of God to preach to such, as Paul had to go to preach in Macedonia, Act. 16. for by our Brethrens way they have no right, by way of Covenant, from the parents, but onely a providential right to preach the Gospel, which requires an extraordinary Apostolick cast.

As for the other, if the man be a born heathen, and shall come to get these three requisites, and profess as Magus did, he is to be received a Member: but if he hath not these three re∣quisites, for he lives in Sorcery, as Magus and Elymas, and op∣poseth the Gospel, the openly lying profession is scandalous; such a profession Mr. R. faith is not his requisites: If he be a Pagan, and continue in habitual drunkenness, he may be holden out while he gives evidences to others of amendment, and then he may be admitted to the outer court, as a heater; though a profession of faith, if not belied with worshipping of false gods, can hardly consist with Paganism.


Of the principal and prime subject of all the Priviledges of special note bestowed in the Mediator Christ upon the Church.

Mr. H. p. 1. cap. 3. pag. 23.

1. WHether the invisible Church be the principal, prime; and onely subject of the Seals of the Covenant, pa. 3.

Ans. It is not such a subject by any argument that Mr. R. brings: But Mr. H. frameth a question of straw, as if I had moved it, and disputes against Mr. R.

My words are: The invisible, not the visible Church, is the*principal, prime, and onely subject with whom the Covenant of Grace is made, to whom all the Promises do belong, and to whom all titles, styles, properties and priviledges of special note in the Me∣diator de belong, p. 248. The Promises are preached to the whole Page  69 visible Church, but for the Elects sake; yet they belong, in Gods intention and gracious purpose, onely to the Elect of God, and his redeemed ones, to that invisible Body, Spouse, Sister, whereof Christ alone is Lord, Hed, Husband. I wonder then, if Mr. H. did reade my book, when he will dispute such a Question with me.

1. Whether the invisible Church, and the Elct, be the prime subject of the Seals? A question that hath no sense, nor any fa∣vour * from Mr. R. For can the Elect, of which, some are not born, eat and drink at the Lords Supper, or be washed with wa∣ter? 2. The Lord hath ordained the Seals in an orderly way, and in an Ecclesiastick and Church right to the visible Church, as to the fist, prime, and onely subject external, visible, in foro Ecclesiae, and according to the command of God to Pastors, they are to be dispensed to all Members of the visible Church, to Magus as to Peter, whether the dispensers or Church repute them real Converts, or not. 3. Here the Seals, Ministers, Word, Promises, are considered onely in the sign, letter, external ad∣ministration by the dispensers, who see not the heart. Now Mr. H. proceedeth against me, Arg. 1. pag. 41. to prove that, to wit, That bare and naked Seals, as Circumcision, are bestowed upon graceless men, Ishmael and Esau: which is to set up an ad∣versary of hay; for I am not the man who either dreamed or wrote, that the invisible Church is the principal, prime, and onely subject of the naked Signs bestowed upon Ishmael and Magus: This will be found the minde of Mr. Hockr; for I spake expresly of the priviledges of special note in the Mediator, pag. 144. But the bare and empty Seals, the Promises as in the * letter preached, and as precisely considered and separated from the grace promised and signed, are not priviledges of special note given in the Mediator, for they are priviledges bestowed upon Cain and Magus, as upon real believers, Peter and Iohn, the very same way. 4. But the Lord hath ordained Promises, Sealt, and the like, including the inward grace, Christ, Righte∣ousness, Pardon, Perseverance, Eternal life, in his gracious pur∣pose, as I say, pag. 244. to the invisible and effectually called Church, as to the principal, prime, native, internal subject, a right not onely Ecclesiastick in foro Ecclesiae, which they have Page  70 also, professing the sound faith, but also with a real and inter∣nal right in foro Dei, Upon these Arguments, never touched nor answered by Mr. Hooker.

1. These are the first and proper subject of all Promises. Properties, Priviledges, Seals of special note in the Mediator * (taking the Priviledges and Sea's as they include Christ, and the graces promised and sealed) to whom the Covenant, and spe∣cial promises of a new heart, the Law engraven, perseverance are onely promised, and to none other, But these, A new heart, Perseverance, &c. are onely promised to Elect Be∣lievers, Ierem. 31. 33, 35. & 32. 39, 43. Ezek. 11. 19, 20. & 36. 25, 26, 27. Isa. 59. 19, 20, 21. Deut. 30. 6. Heb. 8. 8, 9, 10, &c. If these be promised to Cain, Magus, then either absolutely, and so all shall have a new heart, contrary to Scri∣pture and Experience; if conditionally, shew the condition to be performed by the Elect, which being done, they shall be therewith gifted: Such a condition is not in the Word; for the condition should be either of Nature, or Common Grace, and both must be Pelagianism: for if of Grace, the que∣stion must recurte, What shall be the condition again?

2. These for whom, and for whose salvation God intends the sweet Marrow of the Ministery, and other Ordinance, the meeting in the Unity of faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, Ephes. 4. 11, 12, 13. to whom they all belong, 1 Cor. 3. 21. and for whose sake all are, 2 Cor. 4. 15. and for whose salvation onely Christ came and died, Matth. 20. 28. Luke 19, 10. 1 Tim. 1. 15. 1 Pet. 3. 18. Ioh. 15. 13. must be the prime and onely subject of all these priviledges in their marrow and substance.

3. These to whom Christ is given onely, and with him all other things, must be the prime and onely subject, to whom all priviledges of special note in the Mediator are given; or then the visible Church, or some other than the Elect and ran∣somed of the Lord, must be the principal and onely subject: But he hath given us Christ, and with him all other things, Rom. 8. 32. And Mr. H. cannot say, that to that visible body, as visible, in which Magus, Cain, are joynt Members, having as good Ecclesiastical right as the Apostle Peter, by Mr. H. way, Page  71 are given all things, Christ, saving grace out of his fulness, &c. as to the first and prime subject.

4. Christ is Head by the influence of saving grace, King, Husband, Saviour, Ransomer, Surety, High-Priest of the re∣ally believing Church: If he give any priviledges, then who shall be the first, prime and onely subject of graces flow∣ing from him, but his Liege-people, Spouse, Ransomed ones?

5. The Elect justified, are onely the Sons of the Promises, Rom. 9. 8, 9. and are internally, and not externally one∣ly, as Magus, in Covenant with God, and internally cal∣led.

Mr. H. The Catholick Church invisible is not the prime and onely subject of the Seals, as the meaning of〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉is to Mr. R. though the exposition of the Rule be neither safe nor sound, quod convenit〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, convenit〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.

Ans. Taking the Seals for bare and naked signs bestowed upon Magus, which is Mr. H. minde, he disputes against him∣self, not against me.

2. The axiome, what agreeth essentially, and per se, in se∣cundo modo per se, (as aptitude to discourse, or also to laugh, agreeth to man) does both agree universally to all men, and reciprocally; for every man is apt to laugh, and every thing apt to laugh is a man: So the invisible Church is that Com∣pany to whom all saving priviledges belong, Effectual Calling, Redemption, Justification, the promises of a new heart, of Perseverance, the Seals including Covenant-grace; and reci∣procally the same Company to whom all these priviledges be∣long, is the invisible, mystical, Living Church, and not the Company visible of which Magus is a Member. Is this axiome neither safe not sound? Mr. H. should shew wherein it is * faulty, and not pass with disdain the Rule as neither safe nor sound. It is defended as a truth of Aristotle by Christian Phi∣losophers. What agreeth in any thing 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, (which Aristotle saith are the same in secundo modo per se) agreeth to all, and to every one, and to such onely. So the first modus per se is when the Praedicate belongs to Page  72 the Essence of the subject; so Aristotle taught me long ago. * So Collegium Conimbicense, Ant: Ruvio, Murcia de Lallana, Smyglezius, Toletus, and many; yea, all who Comment upon Aristotle. And the secundo modo per se, is when the subject belongs to the definition of the Attribute; as a man is apt to laugh, to weep, to admire, and reciprocally; yea, and what a∣grees to any, according to its specifick nature, and last essential difference, agrees reciprocally: and to this old Logick I stand, it is not new.

Mr. H. pa. 37.

Mr. R. proveth, That the visible Church, as such, hath not right to the Seals, but the invisible. These onely who are within the Co∣venant have right to the Seals; so Peter proves Infant-baptism, Acts 2. 38. but onely the invisible Church hath right to the Co∣venant.

Ans. Peter, Acts 2. speaks of persons externally within the Covenant, who by profession engage themselves to walk in the ways of God, though they have not, for the present, the sound work of faith in their hearts, and it may be shall never have it. Now that the visible and intelligible being in Covenant, must be understood Acts 2. is clear, else the counsel of Peter to be baptized, had been null; for invisible Christians onely have right to the Seals, (they might reply) but whether we be such, we for the present do not know, and it is certain, and you can neither see nor know the invisible work of grace: it is believed by faith, not known.

Ans. An errour in the first concoction spoileth all: I speak of an internal right in foro Di, and this way onely real and in∣visible Page  73 believers have internal right to the Covenant and Seals, including the blessings and graces rem significatam; otherwise, naked Seals, of which Mr. H. speaketh, are not special privi∣ledges in the Mediator, for they are (himself granting) bestow∣ed upon base hypocrites: so the right internal to the seals, and Christ in them, and to the Covenant and new heart, is the pri∣viledge of special note, whith onely the invisible and really be∣lieving Church hath; Mr. Hookers Saints, Magus and Iudas have no such priviledges.

2. The answer of Peter, Acts 2. is indeed of a being in Co∣venant*visibly, and that being is not excluded, but it is rather and more principally to be expounded of real and internal be∣ing in covenant, Repent, and be baptized every one of you, for the promise is made to you and to your children; that is, ye are within the Covenant. Now Peters answer is a strengthning and com∣forting answer: for the doubt of their cast-down conscience is, Ah! We murthered the Lord of Life, then must we be rejected of God, we know not what to do! Peter had returned but a comfort∣less answer, to say, But be of good chear, the promise is onely to you and to your children; that is, ye are onely visibly in Cove∣nant: They might say, So is Magus. I grant it is a ground of comfort, Psal. 147. 19, 20. Exod. 20. 2. Deut. 5. 1, 2, 3. but it was not so healing an answer to their question, which was not, Men and brethren; what shall we do to get in to be Members of the visible Church? What better had they been in a place where Ananias and Magus had as deep a share of the comfort as they; and which having, they might eternally perish? But their question was, Men and brethren, what shall we do to be sa∣ved eternally, and to be Members of the invisible Church? Peter answereth, There is a Covenant made in the holy minde of God really with you Jews, and your children, and to all that are afar off, with the seed of Jews and Gentiles; and so he must have among you a company ordained to life, and internally in Cove∣nant: So Calvin, Gualther, Bullinger, Marlorat, Beza, Bren∣tius. His meaning is not that they were all the same way within the Covenant, and the Promise made one and the same way; some were actually and really, and so invisible in it; some visi∣ble, and in profession; some as fathers, some as children and Page  74 parts of their fathers. (2.) He cannot speak onely of the visi∣ble Covenant, but of their being invisible in it; he bids them repent really, not visibly onely, as Magus did, and heals their anxious conscience, by this repenting really, for that end that their doubting may be removed; not that the holy Ghost bid any within the visible Church repent onely professedly, and one∣ly externally, but the command of repenting, as born in upon the chosen, carries with it the Lords intention often, and his de∣cree to save, and their being internally in Covenant, as here it doth.

3. I shall desire Mr. Hooker to be true to his own distinction. If being externally in Covenant make a Church-member, as he expounds Acts 2. Then all to whom the Lord saith, I am your God, and to whom the Covenant is externally preached, and * they by silence hear and accept of it, are to Mr. H. Church-members; then all Israel whom Moses preached to be blinde, hardned, Deut. 29. 4. rebellious and stiff-necked, Deut. 31. 27. who had tempted him in the Wilderness fourty years, and when they had entred in a Church. Covenant with God, Deut. 29. 10. as our Brethren expound it, they were to Moses, to Ioshua, and to all the godly, and to one another, real converts, savouring as if they had been with Christ, and practically reformed. O what strange charity, when Moses and the Prophets preached, they confess, the world knew their life declare the contrary.

2. Why should Mr. H▪ deny but the three thousand who heard with gladness, received the Word with joy, were real con∣verts, * by a frequent figure, the part for the whole, because the most part were real converts? Yea. Mr. H. will have Ananias, Sapphira, and all of them in the judgement of charity to be real Saints: But when the Scripture calls Israel these whom Saul and David were to feed and rule, 1 Sam. 9. 16. 2 Kings 3. 18. 2 Chron. 7. 13. even all the murmurers and ••bels whom the Lord brought out of Egypt, Deut. 5. 2. Exod. 6. 4. his covenant∣ed people, Will not Mr. H. give us the favour of a figurative speech, a part for the whole?

3. Or then (which is strange) all Egypt, Assyria, Isa. 19. 25. all Nations, Isa. 2. 1, 2. All the kindreds of the earth, Psal. 22. 27. Of the world, Rev. 11. 15. must be in the judgement of charity to one another real Converts.

Page  75 4. Could not the Lord call them, and make a Church of them, and say, I am your God, and they, We are thy people, while first the Pastors and the Church passed their judgement of charity upon their real conversion?

5. Mr. H. passeth over all the Texts cited by me, which con∣clude onely the invisible Church to be really within the Cove∣nant; see them above: and contendeth, That the visible Church onely, which is of these who never had, and it may be shall never have any sound work of faith in their hearts, pag. 37. the onely prime subject of those special priviledges in Christ.

6. So the Reason is null, if this be the onely visible being in Covenant, which is Act. 2. 38. it concludes not: Mr. R. said the contrary, both visible and invisible being in Covenant, must be understood Act. 2. as also invisible grace is believed in it self, therefore it is not known in its effects; it follows not, the invi∣sible and really believing Church, is not visible in the effects to men: Isa. 61. 9. Their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their off-spring among the people; all that see them shall ac∣knowledge them, that they are the seed that the Lord hath blessed. Isa. 62. 12. And they shall call them the holy people, the redeemed of the Lord, and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A City not for∣saken.

Mr. H. p. 37. That onely the invisible Church hath right to the Seals, draws many absurdities: The adversaries of grace will hardly be gained.

Ans. True: if you mean external signs and Ecclesiastick right; if all Israel be in the judgement of charity within the * Covenant, we must indeed believe visible Murmurers, Idolaters, Fornicators, Backsliders, Worshippers of Heathen gods, 1 Cor. 10. 1, 2, 3. Exod. 16. 1, 2. Psal. 78. 17, 18, 19, 20. such as slew their sons and their daughters to Molech, openly under every green tree, Psal. 106. 35, 36, 37, 38, 39. Ier. 7. 30, 31. Hos 4. 13. Ier. 3. 2, 3. Isa. 57. 8, 9, 10. Ezek. 16. 31, 32, 33, 34. to be real converts, and all and many other absurdities follow.

2. We must believe, That all the visible Church have saving grace; Ergo, we must believe that God hath chosen to life all the Independent Churches on earth.

Page  76 3. That God intends salvation, and pardon, and perseverance to all and every one of them of the visible Israel, and that to be false, Rom. 9. 6. They are not all Israel which are of Is∣rael.

Mr. H. p. 38. Mr. R. compasseth us about with a crowd of ac∣cusations of the grossest Arminian, Popish, Socinian Do∣ctrines.

Ans. Why did ye not clear your selves of conspiring with Papists, in denying the preaching of the Word to be an essen∣tial note of the visible Church, and in other points also? 2. Of conspiring with Socinians, in setting up Independent Congrega∣tions. 3. Denying the Power of Synods. 4. The necessity of Ordination by Laying on of the Hands of the Elders, &c. to such you say not any thing, in leaving the Reformed Churches, and joyning with these enemies of the truth; but of this here∣after: you have yet place to dismiss the crowd.

Mr. H. p. 38. Let Mr. R. help us to answer the Anabaptists upon his grounds.

Mr. H. Those that I cannot know have any right to the Seals, to them I cannot give the Seals in any faith: But I cannot know that Infants are of the invisible Church, which onely gives them right to the Seals. If Mr. R. grant the proposition, that they give the Seals to such whom they know not to have any right, they tri∣umph.

Ans. No Anabaptist can object to me. That to be of the in∣visible * Church onely giveth right Ecclesiastick to the outward Seals, which Magus receiveth, Mr. H. calleth the dispensing of the outward Seals a special priviledge, but such as Magus hath no special or saving Priviledge.

2. It passeth the wit of man to defend Independents against Anabaptists: for 1. The Anabaptists and Independents both agree in the same constitution of visible Churches, that they must be real converts, as far as we can judge: but that we can judge of no Infants born of believing Parents, except we pluck out the eyes of charity, and believe that Cain, Ishmael, Esa, and all and every one born within the visible Church, are born con∣verts, is impossible. Hence Mr. H. Those that I cannot know have any right to the Seals, to these I cannot give the Seals of the Page  77 Covenant in faith, as the Apostle calls faith. So Mr. H. But I cannot know that all the Infants of Believers have right to the Seals, because their parents are visible Saints, some of them E∣lect, some of them Reprobate: Except I 1. Put the Seal of God upon a blank, contrary to our Brethrens Doctrine. 2. Ex∣cept I profane the holy things of God, and admit heathens to the Church of visible Saints. Let Mr. H. answer the Anaba∣ptists.

Mr. H. Mr. R. helps the Minor with a distinction So, faith*in Christ truly giveth right to the Seals of the Covenant, and that in Gods intention and decree, called Voluntas beneplaciti, but the orderly way of the Churches giving the Seals, is, Because such a society is a professing and visible Church, and the orderly giving of the Seals according to Gods approving Will, called Voluntas signi & revelata, belongs to the visible Church. Mr. H. answers, This salve is too narrow for the sore, for the distinction will either make God order the giving of the Seals to such who have no right, and so impeach his wisdom, to appoint the giving of the Seals to such to whom he gives no right to receive them: Or else it doth involve a contradiction and the several expressions contain apparent con∣tradictions; for this voluntas signi which allows the visible Church to give the Seals, it tither gives another right, besides that which the invisible Members have, or else it gives no right: If it give another right, then the invisible Church hath not onely right, which is here affirmed; if it give no right, then the visible Church doth give the Seals orderly to such who have no right to them. I confess, such is my feebleness, that I see not how this can be avoided. How have hypocritical Professors right to the Seals? Not as Members visible: For Mr. R. saith, p. 249. The visible Church, as the visible Church, hath no right unto the Seals; as invisible they can give none, for they have none to give.

Ans. Were it not conscience to the truth, I would be silent of the infirmity of this pious man.

1. It is a good salve: for it becometh not Mr. H. with Ar∣minians and Socinians to impeach the wisdom of the Holy One, because he appoints the giving of the Seals, Baptism to Iudas and to Magus, who have no right true and real in foro Dei, in the Decree of God, and in his holy intention, as I spake p. 248, 249. Page  78 to the Seals, and the grace sealed; nor to the engraven Law, and Gods teaching of the heart, and to perseverance; and I * cite pag. 249. Ier. 32. 38, 39. & 31. 33. and pag. 244, 245. par. 1. Psal. 89 33, 34, 35, 36, 37. Isa. 54. 10. All which places Mr. H never looked on the face, but suppressed them all. Then let Mr. H. clear the wisdom of God in appointing a Ministerial and Pastoral offer of Covenant-mercies, Christ, Pardon, the An∣ointing, the new heart, Life eternal, to be made to such as Ma∣gus, and Iudas the traytor.

2. Whereas he saith, The distinction of voluntas beneplaciti, and voluntas approbans, contains apparent contradictions. It seems he never heard of this distinction allowed by the Reform∣ed Churches; and that he joyns with the Arminians, who teach, That this distinction placeth in God two contrary Wills; and that he wills and decrees one thing from eternity, and com∣mands and approves the contrary to his creatures: Hence there must be guile and dissimulation, and no serious dealing in the Lords commands, saith Arminius, Corvinus, and the Arminians at the Conference at Hague, and the Synod of Dort.

3. Hence it is, that Mr. H. will have the same very right given by the approved Will of God to Members, that is given by the Decree. Just as Vorstius will have the promises and threatnings every way conform to the Decree: and he and all the Armini∣ans say, We may make them often contrary to the Decree, and make the Holy Lord to deal doubly, and to will one thing within himself, and command the contrary. So Mr. H. saith, we make Gods command to give one right external to the Seals, and his Decree the contrary, or no right at all to some hypocrites.

Page  79 But we answer to both: God by his Decree ordains what shall come to pass or not come to pass, or what shall fall out or * not fall out, be it good in his effective Decree, or be it evil in his permissive Decree: For all things were written in his book, when as yet they were not, even all Davids Members, Ps. 139. 16. Eph. 1. 11. But God by his approving Will does not decree what shall come to pass or not come to pass, but onely commands what is good, and promises rewards accordingly, and forbids what is evil, and threatneth punishment, whether the good or the evil come to pass, or never come to pass; he commands Iudas to believe, and Cain, and Pharaoh, that is, he approves of their faith as good obedience, and agreeable to his Law, and yet their obe∣dience never falls out, nor did the Lord ever decree they should obey: for what God decree shall be, must be; but what he commands does not ever fall out: So the Lord forbids the kil∣ling of Christ, Exod. 20. 13. that is, he declareth that he nilleth, disapproveth, and hateth the slaying of the Lord of Life; and yet the killing of Christ falls out, ad was decreed to come to pass by the permission of God, Acts 2. 23. & 4. 27 28. Here * is no shadow of contradiction here. Again, God giveth a right to the Seals to hypocrites; that is, he commandeth the Church to give the Seals to Magus, whether such really or hy∣pocritically believe, this is a right not properly inherent in visi∣ble Members, for their Profession, yea, or their supposed Con∣version. 1. Because all saving and real right to Ordinances is relative to Election to glory, and flows from the Merit of Christs death; but visible Professors, as such, of whose society Magus and Iudas are, have not any saving and real right, as chosen and redeemed in Christ, by grant of our Brethren. 2. A right flowing onely from an external profession, and from Page  80 composed hypocrisie in Magus, is no true right; a lie cannot give a true right, I offend that Mr. H. so anxiously contends for a Charter to such Bastards as Magus. 3. It is a favour to * hear the Gospel, and partake of the Seals; and Ius activum, an active right the Church and Ministers have to call and ad∣mit to the Seals all who profess as Magus, that the Elect in the visible Church may be converted, but it is not a right pro∣priè dictum ne quidem Ecclesiasticum, that they have who are such hypocrites as Iudas and Magus; for the command and revealed Will of God most unproperly is said to give Mgus a right to the Seals: Except Mr. H. never Divine so spake; the command reveals the right, but gives none. As also the right of visible Professors is Ius passivum, and a conditional and passive right; for Magus and Iudas have no right to be visible Mem∣bers, or to partake of the Seals, yea or to profess the Cove∣nant and Name of God, Psal. 50. 16. but upon condition of faith: for God cannot command sin and an hypocritical pro∣fession: yea, he forbids treading in his Courts, Isa. 1. 12, 13. ex∣cept they repent and believe, ver. 16, 17. therefore Magus sins in professing, and in being baptized, he remaining rotten: But the Church sins not, but does the command of Christ in cal∣ling, inviting all that profess, whether they be really, or in the judgement of charity, Converts or no. Which distinction not being observed, our Brethren and Mr. H. mistake the nature of an Ecclesiastical right; for the Lord in the command gives to all visible professors, such as Peter, who really believe, both the Ecclesiastick and external right to the Seals which he decreed to give them, and the same internal and real right which they have by faith, and no other than according to his eternal de∣cree, they have given them in time by real believing. But for hypocrites, as Magus, they have no right Ecclesiastick to the Seals, but a sort of active and permissive right, by which they claim room in the visible Church, and the Seals from the Church. Therefore taking the Church visible as onely visible, as contra-distinguished from the invisible and really believing: and as visibility is common to both Peter and Magus, and their external profession obvious to the eye of man, so the visible Church hath no right that is true and real to the Seals: Page  81 So I retort the Argument upon Mr. H.

True real believers, as Peter, and hypocrites, as Magus, have * either one and the same Church-right to Membership and Seals, or another, and diverse. The same right they cannot have;

1. Because the right of truly and really believing ones, is according to the Decree of Election, such as the Lord ordained to be purchased to them by the Merits of Christ, and also ac∣cording to the Lords revealed Will. He who believes hath right to eat of the Tree of Life, and to Membership and Seals: But this right Magus and hypocrites have not, for they have no part in Christ.

2. The right that believers, as Peter and Iohn, have, is by fulfilling of the condition. He who believes, and loves to be * reformed, hath right to the Covenant, Promises, to Perseve∣rance, to the anointing that teacheth all things. These are pro∣mised and decreed to them, Ier. 31. 33, 34. & 32 38, 39, 40. Isa. 54. 10, 11. & 59. 20, 21. compared with Acts 13. 47, 48. Ioh. 6. 44, 45, 46. & 6. 37. & 10. 26, 27. and to them onely, not to Magus and to Reprobates.

3. Magus, and such like wooden and tree-legs, might claim the same life, living Membership, lively and vital operations, and to have the anointing, and to be kept through faith unto salvation by the power of God, 1 Pet. 1. 4. and to have the fear of God put in their hearts, that they should not depart from God, as Ier. 31. 39, 40. if they have the same right to Membership and the Seals in their substance and grace signified with sound believers. And this is most absurd.

If hypocritical Professors have another external and Eccle∣siastical right then real believers upon these grounds, it must be a false and a bastard Charter, founded upon an hypocritical profession. Let Mr. H. shew how the right of visible profes∣sors who are real believers, and the right of painted and rotten Professors, such as Magus and the like have, is one univocal∣ly, and in nature the same right; and yet Mr. H. (which darkeneth the Reader) puts them all in one, and would have Christ the same way to be King, Head, (survey pag. 16.) Re∣deemer, who hath bought with his blood the Elect, pag. 39, 40. and such rotten ones, as Magus and Iudas. 2. How a false Page  82 and a true right can come from the same command of God, let Mr. H. judge.

Lastly, it is poor to say, How come hypocritical Professors to have right to the Seals? As visible Members they have none, as invisible Members they have none, for such they are not.

Ans. True, they are not; but Mr. H. gives them the same right with invisible Members: quo jure let him shew. Ergo, the Church must give them no Seals, or give them Seals, when she cannot know they have any right, for indeed they have none that is true and real.

Ans. The Church doth obey Christ in giving them Seals; and it well follows, Ergo, The Church giveth them Seals, when she cannot know they have any right, to wit, internal and real, which is a saving priviledge of special note in the Mediator, to the Seals including signes and the grace signified: for so onely they do belong in the Lords intention and eternal decree to real believers, not to Magus and Iudas, except Mr. H. will stand for Arminian Universal Grace, and say that God intends the same saving grace in Ordinances and Seals to Peter and Iohn, and likewise to Pharaoh and Ma∣gus.

Page  83


Whether the visible Church, as visible, can bear these styles of the Body of Christ, of the Redeemed of God, the Spouse of Christ, &c.

Mr. H. saith, These things may well be given to the visible*Church.

Those over whom Officers are set, to feed them by Doctrine and Discipline, must needs be the visible Church: But these are the Church, Act. 20. 28. Feed the flock, not of the Elect onely, but of the whole visible Church; Take heed to the whole flock of God, else if they were set over the Elect onely, they might reply, Lord, we cannot search into thy secrets, who are the Elect and invisible Saints, onely to feed them: where as the current and common sense of the Scripture, is, taking Redeemed and Sanctified as visible, though not really such, the stream of the Text runs pleasantly, Feed all visibly redeemed. Elect and Reprobate: So they be re∣deemed in the judgement of Charity.

Ans. 1. The Church visible is taken two wayes. 1. In the la∣titude, * as comprehending all Professors, sound, as Peter, or rot∣ten, as Magus; all which have a sort of right to the Seals, but divers wayes, as is said.

2. More restricted, as a Church so and so visible, as the soundest part of real believers, comprehending in Corinth onely such as are really justified, sanctified, &c. In the latter ense, the Church visible and professing is one in the matter, all one with the Church invisible, and soundly and sincerely professing, and Peter is both a real believer, and visible and soundly pro∣fessing believer. In the former sense, Paul writing to Corinth, to Ephesus, 1 Cor 1. Eph. 1. 1. Rom. 1. 7. to the Romans, calleth all the Church visible there justified, or not justified, the Church, to wit, the Church visible. In the latter sense onely the so and Page  84 so visible professors, sanctified, justified, are the onely really, soundly professing visible Church, and the whole is named from the sounder part. In the latter sense, Christ is head and Hus∣band * of the visible Church, consisting of onely real, sound, visible Professors, and that not onely by the influence of poli∣tick guidance, but also by the influence of saving grace. But of this visible Church Mr. H. moves not the question, and there∣fore his Arguments speed the worse. *

2. The Argument of the same strain is formed by the Armi∣nians, so, As many as are the really redeemed Church (say the Arminians) and, As many as are the Church of God redeemed in the judgement of Charity (saith Mr. H.) the Elders were to feed. But the Elders were to feed the whole flock, Elect and Repro∣bate, real believers and hypocrites. But the Proposition is de∣nied, and how either the Arminians or Mr. H. prove the Propo∣sition, * we see not: For Redemption to be bought with the blood of God; yea, to be chosen to life before the foundation of the world, which are proper to the invisible Church onely, are attributed to the visible Church of Ephesus, Eph. 1. 4. Was it Pauls minde that thanks should be given to God, because God hath chosen us all, and every one of the visible Church (here is Universal Predestination) of Ephesus before the foun∣dation of the world to be really holy (for of that holiness he speaks) because from eternity God had in the judgement of charity chosen to life and holiness such as Magus and Iudas, and the grievous Wolves in that Church? So must Paul say, 2 Thess. 2. 13. We are bound to give thanks to God for you, all whom we feed, all to whom we write, real converts or hypo∣crites, that God hath, in the judgement of charity, chosen you all salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and bilief in the truth.

2. The Proposition is false, That as many as in the judgement of charity were bought with the blood of God, as were to be fed with Page  85 Doctrine and Discipline, and so with Excommunication; Then were they to esteem all the grievous Wolves that spared not the flock, but preached perverse things, Acts 20. 28, 29. and all that had in such a manner fallen from their first love, and first works, yea all the Apostates in the judgement of charity to be bought with the blood of God, and eternally chosen to life, and saved: for the Officers were to feed all these with Exhortations, Threatnings, Censures. Now the latter is unsound.

But 3. They were all recommended to the care of Pastors, as dear bought. True: but not as if all were dear bought, the Text saith not that. Mr. H. no doubt, sinned with the Armini∣ans, in adding that to the Text; for a father departing may recommend his family of children and servants to a Steward, because (saith the father) they are dear to me; it will not fol∣low that they are all dear to him as children.

4. Feed the Redeemed flock, not as known to you to be Re∣deemed or Predestinated to life, but as professors among whom are my ransomed ones. *

5. The Text runs in its stream most muddily, not pleasantly; if the world, and the whole world, Ioh. 1. 29. & 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 1, 2. and the All, that Christ died for, be the Church of con∣verts in charities judgement, behold, Mr. H. turns the world, all the world, all the world for whom Christ died, before they were born, and had being, into visible Saints; and when the Lord saith, Ephraim is his dear son, Jer. 31. and Israel a holy priest∣hood, a chosen generation, the currant and pleasant sense must be, All and every one in the ten Tribes, and all Israel are the Lords dear children, and Priests sanctified to offer themselves an holy living sacrifice to God, in the judgement each one of another, though there be to their knowledge many thousand visible Ido∣laters, Murtherers, &c. that are detestable to God, not dear to God, as every where the Scripture teacheth.

Mr. H. p. 40. The visible Church is called The Body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 27. 28.

Ans. The visible Church in the sense of Mr. H. as including Magus, Iudas, as such, is not Christs body. 2. Nothing is pro∣ved, except it be made out, that all and every one in Corinth were lively Members under the Head Christ, in the judgement Page  86 of charity, otherwise it is a sinful addition to the Text.

Mr. H. A Church may be visibly in Covenant, which hath not an infallible assistance, may erre in fundamentals, fall away, and not endure as the dayes of heaven, and so are his first and fifth ar∣guments answered.

Ans. It is, I consess, soon done, if well.

Ans. It is true, if men entertain such things as they call truths, when they are but lies of Arminians, it will be easie to * wipe away all with a dry Negoconclusionem. My first argument to prove that the invisible, and not the visible single Congregation, is the principal, prime and onely proper subject of all the priviledges of special note given in the Mediator Christ, is Par. 1. pag. 244, 245. because that is such a subject of all these priviledges, to which onely and principally the Promises belong, that they are a seed enduring as the dayes of heaven, Psa. 89. and can no more cease to be in Gods Covenant favour, than the Ordinances of hea∣ven can cease to be, Jer. 31. 35, 36. then the Mountains can de∣part, Isa. 54. 10, &c. But the visible Church of a Congrega∣tion is not such, &c. Judge Reader of the answer.

The fifth Argument, Because the invisible Church of the Elect is such as cannot erre in fundamentals, cannot fall from the Rock, and not the visible Church of the Congregation, whereof seven may be a Church, and six of them such materi∣als as Magus; nor can such a Congregation bear as the first, onely, and prime subject, these styles (say I, pag. 250.) that are proper onely to the Elect, Redeemed, and really sanctified Church, the styles of Christs Sister, Love, Dove, Spouse, My∣stical Body of Christ.

Mr. H. answers by yielding the Assumption, A Church may*be visibly in Covenant, may erre in fundamentals, may fall away. And this is Mr. R. first and fifth Arguments. Hence if perse∣verance and never falling away, be a special priviledge given in the Mediator Christ, and it agree not to the Congregational, the onely visible Church, and if it agree not to all visible Con∣gregations, then is not the visible Church the onely principal subject of such priviledges; since the world was, no Logick can say that a property can be denied of its first and onely subject, That is a man, and yet is not apt to laugh.

Page  87 2. To be visibly in Covenant, is not a priviledge of special note, that is, a saving priviledge, such as Perseverance, to have the anointing, and a new heart: Of which saving priviledges I spake all along, pag. 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, &c. for to be visibly in Covenant, agrees to Magus, and to all rot∣ten Members; but these saving priviledges of perseverance a∣gree not to Mr. H. his visible Church, which may, and doth fall away, saith Mr. H. Judge then, if these two Arguments be wiped away with a wet finger, as saith Mr. Hooker.

Mr. H. p. 40, 41. A Church may be visibly redemed by the blood of God, be called the Body of Christ, the Sons and Daughters of God, and yet not be really and inwardly such, which is his se∣cond Argument. The third is answered already.

Ans. This is with a hop and a skip to take away Arguments. 1. Mr. H. should have done so much as repeaed the Argument. But to be really redeemed, to be the Body of Christ, to be re∣ally, to be, I say, in veritate rei, the Sons and Daughters of God, and not to be called so onely (a generation of Vipers call them∣selves, Matth. 3. the holy seed) are priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ, as I spake pag. 244. and these priviledges agree not to the visible and nominal Church, of which Magus is a Citizen, as to the principal, prime and onely subject, as Mr. H. yieldeth; and so yieldeth the Argument.

2. A Church may be both visibly the Redeemed of God, and called, and be really the Body of Christ, and invisibly, be also the Redeemed of God, by a figure, as touching the sound and real visible Saints among them, but that destroys Mr. H. his cause, who will have all and every one in the judgement of cha∣rity redeemed, even so many as are fed with Word and Censures.

3. Mr. H. should have applied his answer to the Arguments, but he saw it would not frame. I have done it. Let the second thoughts of some help here. *

For Mr. H. must apply his answers to the cited places: so Ier. 31. 33. I will put my law in their inward parts, according to Page  88 the judgement of charity; and Ier. 32. I will put my fear in their hearts, according to the judgement of charity. And when the Lord saith, I was a husband to Israel, that is, in the judgement of charity. Isa. 53. He was stricken for the trans∣gression of my people, that is, visible Saints, and for Magus, for my confederate people, in the judgement of charity. Ah! ee not men dare to adde their after-birth inventions to the truth of God.

Therefore Mr. H. addeth, pag. 40 They who hold that a visi∣ble Church is redeemed externally, cannot say by any good infe∣rence, that Christ died for all such in Gods intention, or that all such are chosen to glory, or that God intendeth to save all such.

Ars. This is said, not proved. If Christ die for the whole * world in the judgement of charity, he must intend and decree in the same judgement of charity to save them by his death, else he is conceived to die for them upon no intention at all. I judge Christs dying for us essentially includes his intention to save, to deliver from the present evil world, Gal. 1. 4. If there∣fore this charitable judgement of Mr. H believed Christ died for all the Members of the Church of Ephesus (suppose Ma∣gus to be a baptized Member) he must in the same judgement believe that God intended to save Magus: yea, and Mr. H. must believe in charity, by his death he intends to save all and every one in the visible Church, all the earth over, and so did choose to glorifie all the visible Saints, and consequently all na∣tions; Isa. 2. 1, 2. all Aegypt, all Assyria, Isa. 19. 25. all the Gentiles, Isa. 60. 1, 2, 3, &c. all the Kingdoms of the world, Rev. 11. 15. for they are all the visible Kingdoms and Churches of Christ; and charity shall forbid to believe, that there be one reprobate in the visible Churches, and shall necessitate Mr. H. to believe that God intends salvation, and so chose to salvation every man and woman of them. But I shall not undertake to reconcile our Brethrens charity and their faith, when the Lord shall fulfil the Prophesies, Isa. 2. & 19, &c. And what reason is there, I pray you, to say, People are visibly redeemed, but not * visibly chosen to glory? for the act of redeeming is not Christs visibly dying on the Cross, for that Redemption material was Page  89 visibly to no generations before that crucifying of Christ, or to us; but it is the laying down of the ransom of that noble life for such a certain number of Elect, not one moe, not one fewer than are written in the Lambs Book of Life (I am of that opinion, I hope, with our Brethren) and this is as much hid and invisible to man, until their godly walk make their re∣demption in its effects to be visible, as their eternal Election to glory; therefore I much wonder of Mr. Lockyers asserting from Acts 15. (but I hope my Reverend Brother Mr. Iames Wood hath by this silenced him: for we look for onely silence from him, except some other lewd brotherly help) that the proper and allowed matter of a visible Church now in the dayes of the Gospel, is persons truly converted, such as God who know∣eth*the hearts of all men can bear witness of, as indeed sealed by his holy Spirit; I say, This is the matter that we ought now to take to raise again the Tabernacle of David, and none other, no not in a whole Church, as for that, so far as very spiritual men can judge. Its a dreadful addition to the Word.

Page  90


Answer to Mr. Hookers Arguments, That the invisible Church is not the first subject of the Seals.

Me. H. Ar. 1. If those who were graceless, and had no*interest in Christ, had yet a command from Christ to re∣ceive the Seals, had warrant from his Word to require them; then they had a right (outward and visible in foro Ecclesiae) to partake of them: for there is no better right than Gods Command to enjoyn, and his Word to warrant us to challenge any priviledge. But many graceless, who were no invisible members, Ishmael, Esau, and all the males were enjoyned to be circumcised, and all the houses of Israel to eat the Passover.

Ans. 1. What is in question is not proved, to wit, That the priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ, i. e. saving priviledges, as Mr. R. often teacheth, pag. 244, 245. belong * not to the invisible Church as to the proper and first subject. But Mr. H. proves, That external signs, and external right to the Seals, in foro Ecclesiae, are bestowed upon rotten Members, Ma∣gus and others.

2. He ought to prove the visible Church is the onely prin∣cipal subject of the seals, as he elswhere asserts. But this Ar∣gument proves it not.

3. He frames the Argument of Infants, who have right to be circumcised, who have no command of Christ (for Infants are not capable of commands or threatnings) and brings not instances of these come to age under the New Testament.

4. A graceless man, as Magus, hath thus far right to de∣mand the Seals, that he may say to the Church, You sin in with∣holding the Seals, and therefore I require you baptize me, as Christ hath commanded you: but he cannot say, I have right even ex∣ternal to receive Baptism, and I sin not in receiving it. And Mr. Page  91H. Argument to prove it is naught: Why, saith he, Graceless men have the command of God to challenge the Seals; Magus hath the command of God to challenge, and to receive the Lords Supper. A command absolute he hath none: shew me such a command, Magus, Iudas, eat and drink at the Lords Supper, challenge, claim and receive Baptism; All Israel eat the Passover, be ye real believers or hypocrites, be ye self-triers, and prepared or not, be ye clean or unclean: I confess there were no better right to challenge the Seals, than such a command, if any such were; but if Mr. H. or any of his reade such a command, I pray I may see, and reade also. But Magus hath onely a conditional command, which gives him no true and real right, save onely conditionally, to wit, Magus, receive the Seals and the Lords Supper, so thou believe, and examine thy self; if not, thou hast no right to the seals, but eatest and drinkest thine own damnation: And because these graceless men fulfil not the condition, and believe not, Mr. H. his Argument is wa••ry; They have right from the command of God, which is the b•… right: that is, they have no right at all from a conditional command, they not ful∣filling the condition, but such right as Robbers have to the Travellers purse; yea, they have no command of God, but the contrary a severe discharge, Isa. 1. 13. Bring no more vain obla∣tions. Matth. 22. 12. Friend, how camest thou in hither, not ha∣ving a wedding garment? He that eateth and drinketh unworthi∣ly,*eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, 1 Cor. 11. 29.

Mr. H. p. 42. Iob and his godly friends were invisible Mem∣bers, but being strangers they are forbidden to eat the Passover: Ergo, the seals belong not to invisible Members.

Ans. 1. The thing denied is not concluded. Iob and his god∣ly friends had the marrow of the Seals, and wanted some ex∣ternal signs, which are not saving priviledges, as I alledge pag. 244. That Iob was not circumcised, possibly is said, not proved by Mr. H.

2. My minde is not to deny that the visible acts of eating, drinking, being washed in Baptism, belong not to visible belie∣vers as visible, taking visible as coincident with real believers; for invisible men can no more visibly partake of Ordinances, than Spirits can be baptized, and eat the Lords Supper.

Page  92 3. Iob and his godly friends were not forbidden to be cir∣cumcised, * nor to sacrifice; Iob sacrificed warrantably, Iob 1. c. 42. Iob professeth he was visibly in Covenant, Iob 13. 16. and 19. 25. I know that my Redeemer liveth. And so they were neither invisible Members onely, nor debarred from the seals. Nay, Proselytes were admitted to the seals.

Mr. H. 〈◊〉. 41. If the invisible Church be the first subject of the seals, the invisible Church must have the seals firstly, and the visible Church secondarily; as heat is first in the element of fire, and secondarily in things hot by participation, as iron.

Ans. It is no Logick: If the invisible and real believer, for example, Peter, be the first subject of the seals, including Christ signified in them, then to receive the seals worthily, agree first to Peter and to invisible real believers, and secondarily to these same invisible believers, as they do visibly declare by their sa∣voury conversation, that they are really believers: but there is no real transmigration of accidents out of one subject to ano∣ther; * that is cold Logick: but such real and internal right to the seals, and to Christ and his grace signified by the seals, do neither firstly nor secondarily belong to such visible Saints as Magus and Iudas, yea neither per se, nor per participationem; as the Sun and Stars are neither hot nor cold, either firstly or secondarily, for they are, Aristotle saith, Corpora quintae essentiae, bodies of a fifth essence, different from the elements and all mixed bodies.

Mr. H. p. 42, 43. The Olive tree is the prime subject of the fat∣ness that issues from it, and appertains to it, and of all the Ordi∣nances. But the visible Church, Rom. 11. is the Olive, the seals and other priviledges are part of the fatness which pertains there∣unto: Therefore the visible Church is the prime subject of them. That the Olive is the visible Church, see Beza, Pareus, Wil∣let.

Ans. 1. Will Mr. H. bide by this Conclusion, That the visible Church, including rotten Magus, trayterous Iudas, is Page  93 the prime subject of all saving priviledges, of the new heart, * Gods inward heart-teaching, perseverance, &c? Then by his own argument, Magus, and the visible body whereof he is a graceless member, as visible, must be first qualified inherently with all these saving priviledges, as heat is firstly (saith he) in the fire; and then Justification, Perseverance in grace, must be transferred from such an ugly body as Magus, Iudas, &c. to real and invisible believers.

2. The Assumption is false: Reade again Calvin, Beza, Pa∣reus; adde Pet. Martyr, The English Notes, Diodati, they ex∣pound not the Olive of the visible Church onely as contra∣distinguished from the invisible, as Mr. H. takes the visible Church in this dispute, as it includes the whole visible Israel, even Idolaters, who slew the Prophets and the Heir: But the Church visible including the Election, Rom. 11. 7. and also the invisible and really justified, and by fatness, they mean not onely external priviledges, which the rotten hypocrites wanted not, but the juyce and sap of saving grace, by which, saith Pet. Martyr, They that are far off are made nigh, Ephes. 2. 12, 14. and were engrafted in the Head and Body, saith Pareus; yea, Willet citeth Gorham, and Lyra, who expound the fatness of habitual grace.

Mr. H. Let Mr. R. remember he said, lib. 2. pag. 260. None*are to be cast out for non-regeneration known to be such. But if ye give them the seals (saith Mr. H.) the Church shall give the seals to such whom she knows have no right to them.

Ans. Mr. H. himself is alike burthened with this as I am: A * toleration there must be of some, until the scandals be exami∣ned, and Censures applied, and the Church knows men to be unregenerated, many dayes before they can know it juridicè. Let Mr. H. then answer, whether they should be debarred from the seals or not.

2. If such were admitted being free of scandal, it follows not (its a poor begging of the question) that the Church should admit to the seals such as she knows hath no right. Why? be∣cause they are not in the judgement of charity real converts; that is, non causa pro causa, no cause.

Mr. H. Mr. R. puts the formalis ratio, the essential reason Page  94 of Offices and Officers in another subject, besides the visible Church, in the invisible Catholick Church, convertibly, or reciprocally and universally. Whatsoever hath these priviledges, to wit, Offices, Officers, Seals, right to the Seals, &c. is the invisible Catholick Church. And onely the invisible Catholick Church (Ergo, not the visible) hath all these priviledges. If Mr. R. rid his hands, &c. its good.

Ans. Mr. H. hath two pages near by of this, of which whether * I have rid my hands, let the judicious Reader determine. Know, Reader, that Mr. H. will have all priviledges, external Offices, Officers, Seals, and right Ecclesiastick (which is formally a painted bastard right) in the visible Church, onely as its first subject: I rid my hands of this, by granting it; take the visible Church in a good sense, as including good and bad, nor said I ever any thing to the contrary. But these are not the saving priviledges of special note, such as to be taught of God, to persevere in saving grace, &c. as I oft say, p. 244, 245, &c. And though Mr. H. his priviledges, to be an Apostle, or ano∣ther Officer, to have right external to the seals (a bastard right) agree to the visible Church, yea to Iudas and Magus, they be∣ing gratiae gratis datae: yet saving priviledges, the anointing; the new heart, Justification, Perseverance; the styles of Spouse, Sister, Love, Dove, &c. are such as I desire Mr. H. to rid his hands, and to clear the coasts to us, by his answer to my words. Due right, par. 1. pag. 244, 245. divers pages; how these agree reciprocally to his visible Church. I take but some few. The single Congregatinn of such as Magus and Peter, &c. is the first and reciprocal, and proper subject of the anointing, of justifica∣tion, and perseverance.

And convertibly, All that have the anointing, are justi∣fied, persevere, are onely the single independent Congregation of such as Magus and Peter, &c.

What then will Mr H. do with his own, that are both visibly and invisibly justified, regenerate, who by persecution or pesti∣lence are broken from the Independent Church? Shall they not share of the anointing, because they are not Members of the single Congregation? This is hard measure to the godly, and bad Divinity. This is not good Logick, that therefore Page  95 Mr. R. must shew some other essential causes of Offices and Officers besides the invisible Church: He must mean the visible Church of which Magus is a Member. I know in Logick, that the sub∣ject is an essential cause of an accident; Subjectum sumitur in dfinitione per additamentum, I learned long ago.

And for the close, the society, the saving priviledges, of the new heart, perseverance, is the invisible Church; and all that have these, the anointing, perseverance, &c. is the invisible my∣stical true Church. I own this reciprocation, as new Logick; though let not the Reader mistake, I take invisible as opposed to visible in its latitude, as it takes in both believing Peter, and the hypocrite Magus; yet so, as the visible Church is so named, to wit, a true visible Church, from the choicest part, but not as invisible is opposed to visible, tali modo, both visible and sin∣cere: for the Catholick Church invisible, is also the Catholick Church visible, to wit, tali modo, in a sincere profession vi∣sible.


Mr. H. his formal cause of a Church visible, or Church confederating, is considered.

Mr. H. We have done with the material cause: Now we*come to the formal cause of the visible Church. The faith∣ful, whether they be seemingly or sincerely such, scattered up and down the earth, are like stones in the streets, or timber in the field, they may have a communion by faith, by which they are an invisible Body Mystical, but until they meet together in one place, and have*right to all the Ordinances there, and be confederate by a Church-Covenant, which gives the formality to these Churches, they are not visible Church members.

Ans. If the faithful scattered in sundry Congregations have an invisible communion onely by faith, and so make up an in∣visible Page  96 communion, and an invisible Mystical Body; then two * Sister-Churches that cannot meet in one place, though they may do all the duties of Church-gaining one another, as Mat. 18. yet are not a visible body, no their acts, acts of Church∣profession, not are they visible members of the same Body of Christ, because they partake no of the Ordinances within the same walls, as do members of the same single Congregation: so there is no visible communion, but within the walls of one Church; which is absurd, and repugnant to common sense.

2. It is uncharitable, and against the Word, to teach, That when a Church is dissolved, by no sin and scandal visible, but by persecution or pestilence, that the dissolved members, though both real and visible converts, have no right to the Ordinances: for if the formal cause, to wit, their confederacy into one visible body, as Mr. H. saith, be removed, their visi∣ble and external right is removed. The like is to be said of vi∣sible professors, and of members of another Congregation, and known godly sojourners; these Mr. H. excommunicates for no scandal visible and invisible: for impossible it is that they can meet together in one place with their own Church, with which onely they are incorporate by this confederacy.

Mr. H. This confederating implieth two.

1. The act of mutual engaging, which passeth away, arising from the act of obligation, the state of membership. The nature of incorporating members to mutual duties will constrain to yield to this.

Ans. 1. An Oath or Covenant is no passing away thing, as Mr. H. saith, but leaveth the person under the tie.

2. The state of trying these persons and their seed to be ba∣ptized onely into the single Body, is a dream, even to Mr. Ro∣binson,* and the engagement that gives them right to Ordinances onely with that single Congregation, and in one place, and with no society else to partake of one Bread, and of one Christ, 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. is a Scriptureless imagination: for 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13. We are baptized all, Iews and Gentiles, by one Spirit into one Body, (Catholick, not a single Congregation onely) and are all made to drink into one Spirit, in the Lords Supper, even all; not of one single Congregation onely, but of several Con∣gregations, Page  99 whether they be engaged Mr. H. way or not.

Mr. H. The judgement must be of persons free (in regard of humane constraint) for they may joyn, or not joyn to this Congre∣gation, to receive them or not receive them. 2. It gives power to each over another, to watch over one another.

Answ. Mr. H. makes three properties of this engagement; but he is sharp-sighted, who can difference the third from the first.

2. Freedom from humane constraint i dubious: If from the * Christian Magistrate compelling to Elicite acts of the will; Never man, I think, dreamed of such constraint, as may be laid upon men to believing, loving, fearing. If it be freedom from compelling the external man to Imperate acts; our Divines say, The Magistrate may civilly in his way compel to the means of Salvation, the baptized ones especially, both to hear, and to eat and drink at the Lords Table in some true Church. If it be freedom from a Law of God, or the Church constraint, as this it must be, or then nothing is said.

1. God hath commanded all to come to the house, Pro. 1. 0. Prov. 9. 1, 2, 3. Matth. 22. 3, 4, 5, 6. Luk. 14. 16. And that is a Prophesie to be fulfilled under the New Testament, Zach. 14. 17. And it shall be that who so will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem, to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them there shall be no rain. The English notes say, it figures the Elects gathering together into a particular Church, to which every one must reduce himself to partake of the communion of Saints. And they are also the words of Diodati, and Calvin, Iunius, Piscator, Danaeus, say the same in sense. It is true, preaching to a particular Church should be voluntary, but not by such a Covenant, and so all worship should be; and it were not enough to say, Lord, thou commandest us to get us to the shepherds tents, Cant. 1. 7. And to come into Wisdoms house; but we have freedom to enter Members to this or this, or all the Churches on earth.

2. And it is in all the Churches on earths power to receive us, or not; which is also false. One is born, baptized, comes to be a visible professor in the Church of Boston; is not that provi∣dential necessity a ground to the Magistrate to command him to Page  100 do his duty, and for the Church to constrain him by Obesta∣tions, Censures, being born a member, to partake of the Ordi∣nances, as his duty is. O but he is not satisfied with the Mini∣stery of Boston, but he hath freedom to enter a Member of a Church a hundred miles distant by a new Church-oath: shew a warrant why he ought not to worship the Lord there where his Calling and Trade is; he must confess Christ before men in all places, it is not arbitrary then.

3. Not one word of God is alledged, that this engagement * gives power to watch over one another in this Congregation onely, and not in all Congregations where Providence shall dispose he shall be; as if all these Church-duties to Members of Christ, of warning one another, comforting, watching over one another, taking care for one another, mourning with those that mourn, Col. 3. 16. 1 Thess. 5. 5, 11, 14. 1 Cor. 12. 26, 27. Heb. 10. 24, 25. & 3. 13. Rom. 12. 15. were forbidden as contra∣ry to the Rule of the Gospel, in order to all precious Church∣membes of other Congregations of which we are not Members.

Mr. H. There is good cause why visible Saints (u supra) who are thus to engage to watch over one another, should be acquainted*with each others fitness, &c. and because the work is weighty, it would be done with fasting and praying, which is not requisite, when one single Member is admitted.

Ans. That the thousands baptized of Iohn Baptist, and the three thousand, Acts 2. who were to engage themselves, that is, before they were admitted, could have acquaintance and * knowledge of the spiritual fitness one of another, is impossible; and not onely wants the authority of the Word, but is expresly against it; for it was impossible in some few hours to be done.

2. Ten neighbouring sister Churches lying together are obliged to watch over one another, then they ought, by the Rule of the Gospel, to come under the same engagement.

Mr. H. An implicite covenanting may be sufficient: as sup∣pose a Congregation consist of the children of Parents expresly con∣federate, but vocal and express confederation comes nearest to the Rule. Mr. R. his bitter clamours, that we make all other Churches save our own, no Church, will be past.

Ans. The Popish and Lutheran Churches in which there is va∣lid Page  101 Baptism, in which a Vow is made to walk in Church-wayes, as observing one another, shall have the formal cause of true vi∣sible Churches, and so must be true visible Churches; for they have this Covenant implicitely and virtually.

2. How shall we be made from the Scriptures to see that the Baptist, Mar. 1. 5. the Disciples of Christ, who baptized moe disciple than Iohn, Jo 5. 4. did tye by Oath one way or ano∣ther, (and the Covenant being their complete Rule must be vo∣cal and express) are they so inchurched to engage to these Church-duties within their own Congregations? the word hints at no such thing.

3. There is a necessity of vocal Covenant always, if it come nerest to the rule; but where is the rule?

4. What making of matter and form as so described, and what reciding from the Rule of these Churches in the essentials, is so well known to all, as they must be most false Churches that are not made of visible converts, which is the constitution of the Anabaptist Churches: for bitter clamours and unworthy aspersions, I wish Mr. H. had expressed them, that the Reader might judge. I judge that the Church of Christ in N. E. makes true the prophecy, That the wilderness and the desert do there rejoyce and blossom as a Rose, Isa. 35.

5. Judicious Mr. Cawdrey citeth Dr. Holmes making an ex∣plicite * Covenant necessary.

Mr. H. Cohabitation, which is necessary for our Churches, is such as is fit for the end, for the dispensing of Ordinances and Cn∣sures where they may conveniently meet, Acts 14 27. 1 Cor. 11. 26. & 14. 23. it suffers some exceptions. The Church may send*out some to begi•…•…antations where they want able guides, until they attain to a Church-state. States may be compelled to send men to Sea for traffique and for war, and yet no prejudice is done to the Rule of Christ, they are said to cohabit where the place of their abode is in the issue.

Ans. If cohabitation be necessary for the attaining the end; then, as the Pastor cannot be a non-resident, by necessity of a calling in Trading, neither can ten godly Merchants be three years absent, as Mr. H. sayes Solomons Merchants were, but they must be non-residents, and neglect Church watching, nd Page  102 break Covenant, if it be said (as it must be) it should be the Ministers onely calling to reside and watch, but the Merchant hath an extraordinary calling to trade beside.

Ans. This confirms us not a little; no godly visible profes∣sors can tye themselves by Covenant or Oath to exercise the common Christian acts of a Church member onely to such a society, but in an occasional and providential way: for it is as unlawful to tye Church-worship to one society or place under * the New Testament, as it was to tie it of old to Bethel & Gilgal, Hos. 4. 15. & 9. 14. & 12. 11. Amos 44. which is a demonstration that a godly professor carrieth about a Soul with him stands in need of Church-feeding by the Lords Supper, and other Church Ordinances in all the Christian world, and that he is to warn, admonish, comfort all Church members, and to la∣bour to gain a trespassing brother, not of the single Congrega∣tion only whereof he is a Member, Matth. 18. and neither Scriptures, nor sound Divinity, nor the Law of Nature (which is not destroyed by the Gospel) will warrant to limit the word, Brother, as Mr. H. doth, and his Brethren, Matth. 18. 15 If*thy brother trespass, if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother; to a brother only of the Congregation of which the offended brother is a member; as if Christ had not set down a rule, Mat. 18. of gaining all brethren within the single Congregation, or about it; for the word, Brother, is of this latitude, that it com∣prehendeth

1. All that may offend a Brother, that is, one not only within a single Congregation only, of which the brother offended is a member, but also one of another Congregation. Now Mr. H. saith, ye have no Church power over one of a••ther Congre∣gation.

2. He is a Brother whom ye are obliged to admonish, Go tell him.

3. He is a Brother whom thou must labour to gain; Thou hast gained thy brother.

4. He is a Brother who is obliged to hear the Church: He will not hear the Church.

5. He is a Brother who may be cast out, Let him be to thee as a heathen.

Page  103 6. He is one whose sinnes ay be bound in Heaven, Verse 16, 17.

7. He is a Brother, who if gained, may pray and meet with o∣thers in a Church-way in the name of Christ.

8. He is a Brother, who if he be gained, Christ grants his de∣sire and prayer, Verse 19, 20.

9. He is a Brother, who is to be pardoned, If he sin against Peter seventy times seven times, Verse 21, 22.

10. He is a Brother, who ought to forgive his fellow-Brother, as he would have God to forgive him, Verse 14, 25, 35.

Now it were a foul straitning of the word of Christ, to say these ten agree only to a Brother in order to another Brother of the same single Congregation, as if we did owe by Christs Doctrine in that notable Sermon, Compassion, Forgiveness, Tea∣ching, Gaining &c. to no Brethren, but to those of the same Congregation, where of we our selves are members.

2. This Doctrine deprives godly travellers, so journers, sa∣voury * professors, of the Lords Supper, for three, for six years, of the Ordinance of the Lords Supper, of Church-teaching, Rebuking, Prayer, Church comforts, of all Church-manifesta∣tions, and of all Church communion with Christ, the Head of the visible Church, of all Church-presence of him that walks in the midst of the golden Candlesticks, of all Church-influences, of all Sanctuary-beauty, for no scandal or sin, but onely for going about a lawful duty in all the visible Churches on earth, as is clear Cant. 1. 7. & 2. 1, 2, 3 4. Psal. 27. 4. & 73. 16, 17. & 84. 4, & 42. 1, 2, 3, 4. Hib. 2. 12. Psal. 22. 22. & 40, 9, 10. for it cannot take off the Argument to say, The godly profes∣sor may have the same comforts, but in an invisible way, which he hath in his own Church, in his native abode in a visible and Church-way: for, 1. This is to beg the question, for hs pro∣fessed hearing, praying with a forreign Church is as visible as at home. 2. If Christ no where have deprived a man of the comfort of the Lords Supper, whithersoever he come and pro∣fess himself a visible Saint, no men on earth can deprive him; but there is no more warrant why a visible Saint should not eve∣ry where remember the Lords day by eating, as he may pray every where in faith holding up pure hands: for as he takes Page  104 Gods Name in vain, if he hate to be reformed; so also to ban∣quet with Christ, not discerning the Lords body.

3. If these forreign Churches, of which he is no member (as Mr. H. saith) may and do as well discern Mr. H. his Marks of a visible Saint, as his own Church, to wit, after trading a∣mong them divers years, to them he savours as if he had been with Iesus, p. 14, 15. he abstains from all known sins, p 24. then have they as good right to tender the Lords Supper to him as his own Church, and he may have a desire, and the same right both real and visible, that he hath to the Ordinances in his own Congregation; then, as the Eunuch said, Here is water, so, here is a able, and Christ in eating, what should hinder him to eat? Is not Christ walking beside the golden Candlesticks here as at home?

4. If Providence necessitate him, as he is chased by persecu∣tion to one City, and is banished out of that, that he must fly to another, and from that to another, and from that to a third, and is providentially necessitated to have no certain dwelling, as was Abraham, and the Saints case, Heb. 11. 37, 38. 1 Cor. 4. 11. so was Christs case, Matth. 8. 20. he must either live by the Rule of the Gospel, all his life, without Church-Ordinan∣ces, or as he cometh to ten sundry Churches visible, he must be ten times, twenty times married unto, and divorced from the Church, have and lose Church-right to a communion with Christ in his body and blood, and to the Head Christ, and to all the edifying comforts of Church-Ordinances.

Page  105


The Arguments of Mr. H. for a Church-Covenant con∣sidered and removed.

MR. H. Every spiritual and Ecclesiastical incorporation re∣ceives*its being from a spiritual Combination. So Cities and Towns have their Charter granted them from King and State, to meet for such ends; it is the Sement that sodders all. 2. Polished hewen stones give not being to a house, except they be conjoined, &c. But every particular Church is a City, Heb. 12. 22. A house, 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Body of Christ, Eph. 4. 13, 14. 1 Cor. 12. 27, 28. And all these are particular visible Churches where Pastors and Teachers are set, and Members kit together. So Mr. R. Lib. 2. pag. 302. A Church in an Island is a little City, a little Kingdom of Iesus Christ.

Answ. Mr. H. in the title saith, 3. The reasons of the Cove∣nant, and concludes nothing for a Covenant, but only tells us Saints are the Matter, like scattered stones, union makes the form; but Union is the result, the Covenant goes before; The propo∣sition is, Every Corporation receives its being from Combina∣tion: This shall prove no more, but the Congregation is a Congregation from Union of Members; (this is no conclusion debated by us) and proves as well that a National Church, a larger Kingdom of Christ, as Rev. 11. 15. Isa. 2. 2. Egypt and Assyria are made the Lords people visibly considerated, Isa. 19. 25. and that by one Union, one Lord, one Faith, one Bap∣tism, * by the Covenant of Grace so professed; yea, the invisi∣ble Catholike Body, the Bride the Lambs Wife, Rev. 21. is a spiritual corporation by such an Union.

2. The thing in question is never proved, to wit, that every single Congregation is made a visible Body within it self, by such a Covenant as the Members are engaged to watch over Page  106 only one another of that society, have a Church right to Or∣dinancs, Word, Seals, censures, only with the Members of that one society that meet within the walls in one house, and with no other all the earth over.

3. The comparison of a City to a State holds not; See Mr. Cawdry. Cities, 1. have different Charters and Priviledges in * measures, trading, selling. 2. Different publick Rents, Bur∣rough-Lands. 3. Different Governments, some by Major and Aldermen, as royal Burghs: some far otherwise. And so 4. Free Citizens in London, not free Citizens in York, and here is some specifical difference (as it were) in Laws and Freedom. But it is a poor begging of the question without probation to say, that single Congregations have these four differences; for all Congregations visible have 1. The same Charter, the Cove∣nant of Grace, one Faith and Doctrine of the Gospel. 2 One inheritance and hope of glory, Eph. 4. 3. One and the same visible Head Christ. 4. The same Baptism, and are all visible brethren and members, having the same right to the Seals all the world over, without any new Church Covenant. Phoebe, Iustus, Epaphroditus, Rom. 15. 1. Col. 4. 10. Eph. 6. 21. Are brethren (visible professors, the distinction of saluting brethren, and of Church-brethren must not be taken up on our brethrens word) having right by Letters of Recommendation to Seals, as * Mr. Cotton teacheth: now Letters of Recommendation, as I prove, (and Mr. H. never lets on him that he did read it) yea, nor do men or Angels give, but only declare right, that bre∣thren Pastors had before in all Churches to Baptism, to partake of the Seals, otherwise they cannot eat the Lords Supper in an∣other congregation, contrary to both the truth and Mr. Cotton, and the way of the Churches of N. E. except they swear or en∣gage themselves members to all the Churches about where they should and ought occasionally to receive the Seals, and partake of Church-comforts. But this Mr. H. flatly contradicteth; let them agree among themselves: now such an engaging being a binding of themselves to impossibilities, that they shall discharge duties of watching over all, as over their door-neighbours of the same flock, is unpossible, and so unlawful; no authority on earth can take saith, or the holy and blameless visible profession Page  107 thereof from a visible professor; and to whatever Table of the Lord he comes, or ordinances of ministerially preached promi∣ses, they are his by his faith visibly professed; Mr. H. must shew one inhibition of Christ to debar any visible son from the fathers bread; if then the argument be drawn from civil Corporations (as they cry out against this argument in us for Provincial and National Churches) it must be this, as every incompleat Corpo∣ration or Lane in London consenting to receive such a man an Inhabitant and Member of that Lane, doth not make the man so received a free Citizen of London, for that he was before they received him, when he was a member of another Lane: and e∣very City admitting a man to be a free Citizen of London, does not make him a subject of the Kingdom of England, for that he was before he was a Citizen: so neither does every single Church receiving a member, make him for that a member of the visible Church: for 1. he was before (we suppose) baptized, and both a real and a visible Saint, and had Church right to par∣take * of the Lord Jesus, and the bread, not as a seal of our com∣munion with the Member of his own church only, but of all the Churches of the Saints, saith the Church of N. E. The argu∣ment is not unlike this: Whatever constitutes Socrates a single person, doth also constitute him a man, which is most false. 2. The Texts in the assumption are widely mistaken, Heb. 12. 22, 23. But you are come to Mount Ziou, that is, to a single In∣dependent Congregation; nay read more, v. 23. To the general Assembly and Church of the first-born, which are written in heaven; that is, to a company of visible saints, of which seven may be a Church (saith the way of the Churches of N. E.) and these sometimes (say they and M. H.) hypocrites, such as Iudas and Magus: If so, then these must be called the City of the living God, the heavenly Ierusalem, the general Assembly of the first-born, whose names are written in heaven. It may grieve the godly, that the word of God should be so perverted: Oecumenius, and Thtophylact and Galvin, Piscator, Marlor••, English Divines, Diedati, Pares, as also Cajetanus, Esthius, cal them the universal church of the elect.

Page  108 The place 1 Tim. 3. 15. is not to be limited to the Church * of Ephesus, Pareus loquitur de columna ministeriali, of a mini∣sterial Church that preacheth the Gospel, and so its no∣thing to this purpose; Calvin, Beza, Cr••iger, he means the Church indefinitely whithersoever Timothy should come, let it be a particular Congregation, it is made up of preaching Pa∣stors, who bear up the truth, by the preached Gospel, as the pillars (say Piscator and Pareus) bear up the house.

The place Eph. 4. 13, 16. is meant not of a visible Congrega∣tion, whose members are Magus and Iudas; for Christ leading captivity captive, and ascending, gave not Apostles and Teachers finaliter, for the saving and perfecting of the visible body as visi∣ble in Mr. H. his way (which must be said, if any thing be pro∣ved against us) but of the body which is visible, but not as visi∣ble, but as he saved the Church, inlived by Christ, saith Beza: He speaketh, saith Calvin, of the end of the Ministry, Until we all meet in the unity of faith; not that all men shall believe in Christ, but he speaketh by a Syncdoche (saith he) of the prdesti∣nate only; for they only come to the unity of faith who are cho∣sen to glory. Zanchius and grave and learned D. Bodius of *Trochrigge in his learned Commentary, as also Piscator, Bullin∣ger, Sarcerius, Marloratus, Rollocus, Diodati, English Divines, with the Text expound the place of the true mystical body.

For 1. Christ ascended for that body, and sent Apostles Page  109 not for Magus, and such of Mr. Hookers visible saints.

2. He intends the perfecting and edifying of that body, verse 12. and Apostles and Pastors are theirs, and for their salvation, 1 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Cor. 4. 15.

3. Christ is the saving head only of that body, and the visible Church is never called his body in Scripture, because visible, but by a figure, because of the lively members among them, draw∣ing life from the head Christ, Eph. 1. 22, 23. Eph. 4. 16. Eph. 5. 23. Col. 1. 18.

4. He speaks of that body which shall come with all the saints to the unity of faith.

5. Which grows up into a perfect man, &c. which is a living body, from which I excommunicate Magus and Iudas. And for the place 1 Cor. 1. 12, 13. It's not a single Congregation * visible; shew in all the Scripture where a single Congregation, yea, and every single Congregation never so few (for were it but of seven, or ten, or twenty, it is an instituted politick Church (though wanting Pastors to our brethren) is called Christs, the body of Christ, as this Church. So Calvin, Beza, Martyr, N•• parvae consolatio hac; it is no small comfort, that the Church is called Christs, because it is his body: for as Cyrillus saith, Christ, assumed the nature common to all. 2. All the members of the body being many are one body, so also is Christ: yea, thse many are men of divers cases, divers nations (saith Prous) yea Jews and Gentile, verse 13. And therefore this is the Catholike visible body. 3. It is the body, that have been all made to drink into one spirit, in the Lords Supper; but this must be the many mem∣bers of divers Congregations, 1 Cor. 10. 16. as our brethren confess. 4. It is the body that lives by the spirit of Christ, 〈◊〉. 12. For when Christians are said to make one body, it is not understood of a politick body only, but (saith Martyr) of the spiritual and secret body of Christ which aims at life eternal, and*hath all thse common, God, Christ, the Holy Ghost, the word of God, Grace, the Sacraments, to wit, Baptisme, the Lords Supper, called by a Synecdoche, a drinking of the Wine in the Supper; Page  110 into one spirit, which excludeth not the eating of the bread, v 13. and so sometimes he speaks of his body in regard of its parts, to wit, of single congregations where the sacraments are admi∣nistrate, and where there are Prophets, Watchmen, Pastors, Ruling Elders, as eyes and ears, yet not fixed and married by a Church-Oath to one only single congregation, and all along as of the Catholike visible body. And it is true which Mr. R: grants, that a Church in an Island is a little City; but so as it is a member of the Catholike visible body, that hath no charters and priviledges spiritual different from these of the whole.

Mr. H. Arg. 2. They who have mutual power each over other to command and constrain in cases whereas they were free before, must by mutual engagement be made partakers of that power. But such are the Church of believers. Ergo. *

The second part of the Assumption is clear by Matth. 18. where a legal order is set, by which brethren only of the same Church ought to exercise power one over another, not over infidels, nor yet with other Christians; for I rebuke a Christian of another Church, I cannot call the Church; he departs the place and refuses to come; but I may in a legal way convince and bind Archippus, for he is a brother; and Mr. R. saith, if the classis will not censure him, the congregation may reject him. Learned Whitaker saith, That each of the congregation or counsel hath power over the Apostle Peter, as a brother to censure him; so saith Mr. R.

Ans. The conclusion denied is not proved, but this, Ergo They must by mutual engagement be made partakers of this power. The question is, whether this Church-Covenant be the formal * cause of membership visible to and in this onely Congregation, and no other visible Church on earth.

2. The proposition is false; for before that engagement so monopolized and restricted to that one onely Congregation (which were Will-worship) these brethren being born of be∣lieving Parents, and also solemnly by their covenant in baptism were engaged visible members of all the visible Church on earth, and of this of Boston, & these round about (where by providence they dwell) they visibly professing the Gospel. I deny not but it is lawful for a sojourning godly professor, to promise to watch over these of the Congregation where he sojourns: but not in Page  111 in all cases expedient that he multiply twenty engagements, and it may be twenty oathes, or solemn promises in twenty sundry congregations; so may he engage for a Family, Camp, Col∣ledge, Ship. And it is false to say,

1. You onely are my Church brethren, Matth. 18. *

2. It is false to say, I have Church-power to the Seals here onely.

3. I am made, by this engagement, a Member of Christ visible, whereas I was not so before.

4. It is false, that when I remove to another Church from this, that I los all Church-right to seals, all Church-power to gain bre∣thren to Christ there.

And 5. it is false, that when I leave this Church, I am un∣churched, no fellow-citizen with the Saints, no Church-member, and yet I was never excommunicate.

3. The Assumption is most false, That by Matth. 18. a bro∣ther * is to gain onely a brother of that congregation whereof he is a Member: Mr. H. aims not to prove that, If thy bro∣ther trespass, &c. that our Saviour means onely of that inde∣pendent * congregation, whereof the brother is a Member en∣gaged to that onely congregation, where the gaining and of∣fended brother is a Member. I have alledged ten Reasons on the contrary. Mr. H. his Reason is against himself and the Text, as well as against us. You (saith he) rebuke one of another congregation, he will not hear you; tell the other Church, he departs the place. What then? his Church he leaves should proceed to censure him by Matth. 18. And may not a brother of the same Church refuse to hear also, and depart the place? and the place of Matth. 18. (say we) proveth that both are to be cen∣sured by their own respective Churches, as obstinate offen∣ders.

4. Mr. R. saith indeed, That one Congregation hath no power of Iurisdiction over another, but each may complain of another to a Presbytery, or to a Church above both, else the remedy of Christ to remove scandals between Church and Church, is too narrow, and very nothing; and sister-Churches offending each against others, are not to rebuke, and labour (by Mr. H. his way) to gain one another to Christ; and nothing can be more Page  112 contrary to love and edification, thn this, and more contrary to our Saviours intent, Mat. 18.

5. What is the formal binding and loosing which one Con∣gregation hath over another, or one Member hath over ano∣ther of the same, or of divers Congregations, the Scripture is silent: The Churches of divers Congregations lay on burthens and binde other Churches under them, Act. 15. 28. and com∣mand and enjoyn the things to be believed and done: So Mr. *Cotton. But that one Church-member may binde and loose, is unknown to the Scripture: for you may say so, one Subject may binde and loose, forgive debts and bloodshed, because he may complain, or forbear to complain to the Magistrate, and so one Church may binde or loose another Church, and one * Member may binde or loose a whole Church, and many Chur∣ches, by complaining or not complaining to sound Neighbour-Churches, whose it is to unchurch by non-communion, or to for∣bear.

6. Mr. H. proves not that Members have not power over each other by this engagement, because before the engagement they are free, and none can compel them to be Church-mem∣bers, or to be baptized, Luk. 7. True, but if they reside and refuse to joyn to the true Church, and so deny Christ before men, and being professors, if they refuse to joyn to the true Church of Christ, they are to be esteemed as Heathens or Publicans; as the Lawyers who refused to be baptized, despised the counsel of God, Luke 7. 30. and the Gospel-threatnings for refusing to come to Wisdomes banquet, Prov. 1. 20, 24. & 9. 3, 4. Luk. 14. 18. are no less bindings and constrainings in their kinde, than Church-rebukes of one to another, and Ex∣communication. Of this before. It is probable and more, That a godly Christian conquerour may hinder conquered Heathen to blaspheme Christ, and adore Idols, and compel them to hear the Gospel.

7. It a wonder that Mr. H. should cite Whitaker, or any of our Divines, who are all for the power of Presbyteries, Synods, yea of an Oecumenick Councel, from Mat. 18. which he him∣self disclaims as an invention of men.

Mr. H. Arg. 3. Voluntary combination makes a man a Mem∣ber*Page  113of a Presbyterian Church, as Mr. R. Lib. 2. pag. 320. thn must voluntary combining make one a Member of a Congrega∣tion.

Answ. Still the point in question is never touched. Will this prove that voluntary engagement is the formal cause of a vi∣sible Church? so Mr. H. tells us, ch. 4. pag. 45. Of the formal*cause of a visible Church: Nor doth voluntary combining make any so a Member of this Presbyterial Church; as he is not also a Member of the whole visible Church, or as he hath no Church right by divine institution to Ordinances and Seals in another Presbyterial and Congregational Church, as this way of Mr. H. teacheth: for, as I say in that place, Presbyterial Churches & Con∣gregational in their being are of divine institution, but in their local bounds, and determitate number of Members, they are things of conveniency, of order, and providential necessity, not of divine institution; and the consequence is poor and no∣thing; for that is a huge mistake of Mr. H. An implicite Cove∣nant*is, when professors in practise do that whereby they make themselves to walk in such a society without any verbal profes∣sion; for then a sojourning believer partaking in fourty Chur∣ches of the Seals in some few years, occasionally doth enter fourty implicite covenants, doth fourty times unchurch him∣self, and lose and take up of new his Burges-ticket and Church-right, and lose it again: For Mr. Cotton, and the Way of the Churches of N. E. teach, That such a man an hundred times * partakes of the Seals in some few years, and may lawfully do it, as a son coming occasionally to ten sundry Tables in ten cities or ten families, which do equally belong to his rich and potent father, as he providentially cometh along; yet is he not ten times for that made a son and member of his fathers great fa∣mily; for his one and the same numerical sonship gives him right to all the ten tables: So one and the same visibly professed sonship gives to a sojourning believer the same Church-right to be fed at all the Tables, to all Church ordinances in ten hun∣dred visible Churches all the earth over; Letters of recommen∣dation do declare, but not create his Church-right to Christ and ten hundred Lords Suppers; and it is a dream, that the practising and partaking of the Lords Supper gives ten hundred Page  114 new combinations and fancied formalities of Membership to all the Churches, whether Congregational or Presbyterial. Say one be necessitated to dwell in his fathers heritage, and must be a Member of that Church; What Scripture doth loose him from the same occasional duties he owes to the Church from whence he departed, as now being no fixed Member there∣of?

Mr. H. 4 Arg. That society of men who may enjoy such priviledges spiritual into which none are admitted without the ap∣probation of the whole, that society must be in a special combina∣tion; for such an act argueth a combined power, which the whole hath, and not any Member alone; and that they cannot have but by their agreement. But the Congregation is such. They who have power to choose, have power to reject their Officers, who offer themselves to be Members.

Ans. If none may be admitted without the approbation of the whole Congregation, then may no visible Saints, Members of sister visible Churches, be admitted to Church-ordinances Pastoral, hearing, seals, rebukes, comforts, prayers in a Church∣way, but by some Covenant one or other made between the Church and these strangers that come to partake: Let Scripture speak, if communion of Saints be not here e∣nough.

2. This fell from a sleeping pen, and what the conclusion is who can tell? 'Tis far from the question: for the conclusion is, Ergo, the Members of the Congregation are combined. Why not? Valeat totum. And the whole Church must admit the commu∣nicants the many thousands; then ten or twelve thousand of Ierusalem must all be acquainted with the visible Saintship of each other; yea, women who have taken the Church-covenant as well as men: then can none hear, nor partake of Church∣prayers and seals in another Congregation, without the privity, and conscience and consent of all the Members, suppose they be ten thousand, and without the consent of the whole: now women are confederate Members as well as men.

Mr. H. Arg. 5. Christian affection makes not the Church; for it is in such as never saw other.

Ans. It proves nothing: they may be Members of the visi∣ble Page  115 Catholick Church, who never saw one another in the face, *Prov. 11. 15. Isa. 2. 1, 2. & 19. 25. Psa. 22. 27, &c.

2. Cohabitation (saith Mr. H.) and meeting in one place,*makes not a Church; for Turks may meet to hear the Word, 1 Cor. 14. Ergo, covenanting must be the formal of a Church.

Ans. 1. Divers other things are required to the essence of a visible Church, as we shall hear.

2. All is beside the question, we dispute not now the essence of a Congregation.


Whether Mr. Hooker doth prove this Conclusion (which Mr. R. never said, nor wrote, nor thought) That Ba∣ptism gives formality, or makes a Member of a visi∣ble Church.

Mr. H. If there be a Church, and so Members before Ba∣ptism,*then Baptism cannot give formality; for forma is causal, and before formatum. But the Church now considered as totum essentiale, is before Baptism. For Ministers are before Baptism, else Baptism may be administred lawfully before by such as are not Rulers nor Pastors, which is denied by Orthodox Divines, and none can give a call to Ministers, but onely a Church of be∣lievers.*

Ans. Its a conclusion not ingenuously forged, as if I made Baptism the specifick form of Membership visible; he ought to have cited my words. By Baptism (I say) we are received so∣lemnly into the visible Church; and Baptism is a seal of our entry into Christs visible Body, as swearing to the colours entreth a Souldier a member to the Army; and, we teach not that Baptism Page  116 constituteth the Church visible simply as the Church, its a seal of a visible profession.

I distinguish the simple being of a visible Member actu pri∣mo; such are Infants born within the covenant visibly made to parents, the promise is made to Church-members, Gen. 17. 7. Acts 2. 39. from the solemn entry and admission into the visible Church.

2. I distinguish between simple being of a Member, and actual solemn communion or visible profession: So speaks the re∣nowned * Assembly, so Calvin, Bucan, Tilen, Professors of Ley∣den, Beza, Ursine, Trlatius, Pet. Martyr, Iunius, Pareus, Waleus: its a seal for our solemn admission, and solemn in∣graffing and adopting into the visible Church, 1 Cor. 12. 13. For by one spirit we are baptized into one body, &c.

1. The conclusion is fancied, and nothing against me, who teach, That Baptism is the door, way and means of our solemn installing into actual communion with the visible teaching Mi∣nisterial Church, (which Arminians and Socinians deny) Ergo, must Baptism be before the Ministers?

2. This fancied homogeneous Church visible of onely belie∣vers, can be no politick Church, and that in ordinary to Christs second coming, which calleth Ministers, for Ministers did ba∣ptize this Church; then must the effect, to wit, called Mini∣sters, be before, and that ordinarily the creating cause, to wit, the Church of believers who made them Ministers, a dream: If this homogeneous Church be a number of unbaptized belie∣vers, (and such Pagans they must be, for Mr. H. saith, They are a born Church, before their fathers Baptizers) then must Page  117 unbaptized children (a strange Church) call and give Ministe∣rial being, and that ordinarily, to their fathers, and choose out of their own unbaptized body their own Pastors not yet ba∣ptized: and who baptized these unbaptized? not the unba∣ptized Church, nor themselves. Mr. H. I judge would deny both.

3. As to that, Whether the Church or the Ministery be first, it is sure, Adam and Evah, as men, were before the Word: if * any say, They being created according to the Image of God, were created a Church; yet some priority there is of the sub∣ject, before the concreated Law: but sure they were not crea∣ted a visibly professing Church, and therefore the Word, as preached in Paradise by the Lord the first Minister, Gen. 3. 15, 16. must be before Adam and Evah as a visibly professing Church. For, the seed is before the tree, the means before the end, the father before the childe, and so some Ministery, ordi∣nary or extraordinary begetting, there must be, before the Church begotten. Who baptized Iohn Baptist? or if he was at all baptized, is not much. But that the Church in the ordinary way of Christ is before the baptizing and begetting Ministery, is wilde Divinity.

Mr. H. If Baptism cannot be before a Ministerial Church, nor*a Ministerial Church before a Congregational Church, which onely can call them to be Ministers; then such a Church is much more before Baptism. For before the coming of some godly zealous Christian and Scholar into a countrey where there are a company of Pagans converted, they may joyn in Church-fellowship, and call this man lawfully according to God, to be their Minister, therefore there is a Church before a Minister, and so before Baptism.

Ans. 1. Mr. H. gives an extraordinary instance of his own devising, without Scripture; and of this he frames a fixed or∣dinary Rule, May not converted Pagans, which onely (saith he) can call Ministers, call this Christian Scholar to be their Minister according to God? No, say we,

1. God never did it, nor is there any Scripture-proof for it.

2. Why doth Mr. H. frame a new instance of his own, and pass by the Lords way? For God sends not private men, or Page  118 Christian unofficed Scholars (or if he do, their extraordinary * sending makes them publick Pastors and Prophets, not the peo∣ple) but he sent Philip an Evangelist, and after Peter and Iohn to Samaria, Act. 8. Paul to Macedonia, Act. 16. and his own Ministers, Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim. 4. 14. & 5. 22. Paul and Barnabas, men in office, some more than zealous Christians and Scho∣lars to the Gentiles, Act. 13. Ionah to Niniveh, Ananias to baptize Paul, Jon. 3. Act. 9.

3. Doth not Mr. H. dress up a providence of a Christian Scholar sent to converted Pagans, and must they be made the ordinary and onely Church who can call Ministers? and this Scholar being unbaptized himself, must as the married Pastor in the ordinary way of Christ baptize to his dying day others, and his calling must be null (say our Brethren) except that one∣ly * Church call him; and according to the ordinary Rule of Christ, he must be all his life unbaptized (which must be a re∣puting of Baptism, with the Familst, a thing indifferent) rather than he own a forreign jurisdiction (as Mr. Lockier speaketh) so as to be baptized by a Pastor of another Church.

Mr. H. If Baptism give the form to visible Membership, then*while that remaineth valid, as it doth in excommunicated persons, and when the Church is dissolved, visible Membership must remain; for where the form is, the formatum, the thing having such a form must be also: for, Relata se mutuò ponunt & tllunt.

Ans. The conclusion is fancied, and nothing against me. 2. There be two things in baptized Members.

1. God is their God, of Egypt and Assyria, fathers and sons under the New Testament, as the Prophecy is, Isa. 2. 1, 2. & 19. 25. & 60. 1, 2, 3. Rev. 11. 15. 2. Infants are holy as the root, 1 Cor. 7. 13, 14. Rom. 11. 16. and it must be cruel divinity to say, That fathers and feed broken off an Independent Church through persecution, and no sin in them, are by the Lord cast out of visible covenanting with God, and from Membership and Church right to the Seals: nor is Baptism any wayes re∣moved.

2. There is the solemnity of admission by Baptism in the excommunicate; this is hurt: but its no more to me the formal cause of Membership, than the ceremony of Coronation, or the Page  119 delivery of a Sword, is the specifick form of a King, and of a Major: and therefore all is granted, and Mr. H. proves no∣thing.

M. H. Baptism is but a separable accident to the covenant, its*efficacy may be hindered by the unworthy receiver, and yet it re∣mains in its own nature to the excommunicate and dissolved mem∣ber, for the form can never be removed from the thing formed. If to be the eldest son be the formal cause of possession, it could never have been taken away. But to be a well-deserving heir, is that whch gives formality of possession.

Ans. 1. It is a wonder that M. H. cannot find valid argu∣ments to bear a free conclusion. For to me Baptism is not a means of a Church-membership simply, but of a Church-mem∣ber tali modo, that is, of a member conspicuously and solemn∣ly differenced from a Pagan.

2. It is bad Divinity to join the nocent excommunicate man with the innocent dissolved member.

3. It is a naughty argument to prove that Baptism is a separa∣ble accident of the covenant: why? because its efficacy may be hin∣dered by unbelief: for the efficacy of any thing is the actus se∣cundus, the operation of it, not its essence; so he may prove that Christ the essential subject of the Gospel is a separable ac∣cident * of the Gospel and covenant of Grace, because both the efficacy of the Gospel and of the Redeemer, by mens unworthi∣ness and unbelief is hindered.

4. He concludes not so much as his own fansied conclusion; to wit, this only, ergo the efficacy of baptism is not the specified form of visible membership; valeat totum: what Dreamer said any such thing? it is sure baptism in fieri, as it is administrate and professed, is the means of the excommunicate mans solemn installing and engaging to be a follower of Christ: and by the scandal that brings on excommunication baptism as professed and as binding is so far hurt as the Covenant-Baptismal is viola∣ted: and if the man be excommunicate for Apostasy, then it is disputable whether Baptism be not quite undone.

5. It is weak moral Philosophy which Mr. H. addeth, that well deserving in an heir gives formality to possession. Well de∣serving gives just and Law-right to possession in the heir: But Page  120 he is a weak Lawyer who would so plead; the innocent Tra∣veller believing in God hath due deserving to his own purse, which yet is in the bloody Robbers pocket. Why Mr. H. saith he hath well deserving, which (saith he) is the formal cause of possession, and so he must have possession, for the formal cause cannot be separated from formatum. And so godly David unjustly expelled from his Kingdom for many years, yet deser∣ving well, must have right both to possess his Kingdom, and not possess it, for if he have the formal cause of possession, he must have possession when he is expelled. *

Mr. H. It shall follow that the Church of Rome is a true Church, for all the members of that Church have true baptism, which is the formal cause of a true Church: but that is false, that that Church is a true Church.

Ans. The conclusion of the connex proposition is nothing against me, who deny Baptism to be the formal cause of Mem∣bership.

2. Such a Baptism that is valid, as touching the substance of the seal, as is in Rome, such a Church according to the Meta∣physick entity and being of a Church, is Rome a Ministerial Church, teaching necessary fundamentals, though darkning and contradicting all; but it is not morally a true Church, but leprose and unclean. See what Iunius, Whitaker, Calvin and Ri∣vetus say hereupon: Mr. H. is far from their sound expressions; if this be true, then to Iezabel and seducing Teachers, who are under the Church-covenant, the formal cause of membership must appertain, and they must be Church-members, and must be tolerate, till they be judicially tried, and censures applyed, so Mr. H.a and Church priviledges bestowed on them at the command of Christ. So also Mr. H.b So visible non-con∣verts, and swine adorned with Pearls, contrary to Christs com∣mand, Matth. 7. 6. and yet keeping the essential form of visi∣ble Saints, must be visible Converts. Which is a contradi∣ction.

Mr. H. The seal of our incorporation, which is latter and poste∣rior Page  121 to the incorporation cannot be the form of it; for the Sacrament is not appointed to make a thing that was not, but to confirm that was; or it doth not give, but confirm grace. But such is Baptism.

Ans. The conclusion is not against me.

2. Observe that Mr. H. sides with Arminians and Socinians,* who deny the seals to be exhibitive signs, and make them meer signs: but seals used in faith, both confirm the former grace, and add increase of grace. Baptism seals that union with the visible Church, which was actu primo in Infants, being born fe∣derally holy, Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. and is a way and means of one more solemn installing in the visible Church; as the re∣ceiving of the Keys of a Castle, both confirms the covenant of the Princes giving of the Castle to the receiver, and doth more solemnly authorize the man as Captain of the Castle. The like may be said of the press-money received by the souldier, who before had given up his name to the Captain, and that by cove∣nant.

Mr. H. The Church was visible, when there was no seal, neither*Circumcision nor Baptism; therefore these do not constitute it, nor any member thereof, Gen. 17 10, 11.

Ans. 1. These five Arguments Mr. H. borrowed from the * brethren, but weakened them by an unjust conclusion, which I own not, nor any of our brethren. This argument also is apt to destroy all the seals; for there was a Church of visible rege∣nerate persons, and of such as by faith saw Christs day in Abra∣hams house, Gen. 12. and as yet neither was there Circumcisi∣on, nor Passeover, nor Baptism: will it hence follow, that Bap∣tisme is essentially no seal of regeneration, nor of any covenant or covenant-Grace, because covenant, covenant-grace, visible membership, and all these were before either circumcision or baptism? but sacred signs are seals of graces and priviledges go∣ing before these signs, both in time and nature.

Circumcision so shall essentially be no seal of the covenant, nor of the righteousness of faith, contrary to Gen. 17. 7. Rom. 3. 11. For there was a people visibly in covenant, and Abraham was righteous before that circumcision was instituted. But no∣thing follows, but onely baptism doth not seal our union with Christ, and solemn entry into his Church-visible, until the Page  122 Lord institute water and sprinkling therewith, and stamp them by his Divine Authority, to seale these graces and privi∣ledges.


Whether profession makes a member of the Church visible. So Mr. H. pag. 60.

FOr the better understanding of the question, Church-right to membership, and to Ordinances and Seals must be consi∣dered.

1. As it is in, and referred to the professor himselfe; and then * the question is upon what ground may the man himself chal∣lenge a room in the visible house, and the seals: now professi∣on, as profession is not a ground, for then a man should be for∣mally made a visible member, and be fed as one of the flock, and be externally called (which are finaliter, and in themselves saving mercies) because he professeth his desire to be fed, and to have the Gospel sent unto him.

But 1. there is no such word nor promise: (do this, and pro∣fess so and so, and you shall be made a visible member.)

2. To have right true and real to Membership and to Ordi∣nances, is to be called of God in a Church-way, from sin to grace and glory. So 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Church-visible, * and the visibly called, are the same almost. Now no man hath right, true and real to membership and seals, and to be called of a God in a Church-way by the preached Gospel, because he professeth that he desires to be called; but the whole right and ground here is the Lords free grace, sending the Gospel to whom he will, Deut. 7. 7. Deut. 10. 14, 15. Psal. 147. 10, 29. Acts 16. 6, 9, 10. Acts 18. 6, 7, 8 9. Nor hath it a shadow of right in Scripture, that Macedonia and Corinth hath Church-right to the Gospel, and to be a Church, and to be the called of God, rather Page  123 then other people, Bythinia especially, at this time, because so Corinth shall profess the Gospel, before ever they hear the Gospel; but here the Lord hath mercy upon whom he will.

But 3. when the Gospel is come to a people, if the question be, what gives to this man, not to this man true real right to Membership, and Ordinances, and Seals, so as he may claim them before God and not sin: The meritorious right is Christs death, the condition upon his part is faith; hence visible profes∣sion as such cannot give right: for then might Magus say, I have right to a room in the visible Church, and to baptism, be∣cause I am a visible Saint: for that is an untruth.

1. If God forbid hypocrisie, and taking a room in the visi∣ble Church, and taking the covenant in the mouth, and recei∣ving the seals, when the party hates to be reformed, and eats and drinks unworthily, then cannot profession as profession give a man right true and real to room in the Church, and to the seals: but the former is true, Ps. 50. 16, 17, 18. Isa. 1. 12, 13. Matth, 22. 12. Matth. 13. 7.

2. Profession is in order to the Rulers and Members of the * Church, which have hand according to their place, either for∣mal or tacit consent, to receive in members, here especially to be considered. And here our brethren mistake the question; for when the question is, what profession is required in such as the Rulers may without sin admit to membership and ordinan∣ces; we say a profession morally true, not real conversion judged to be real by men. Now this confession or profession doh not make a Church-member, but declare a Church-mem∣ber, and it only declares him to the conscience of the Rulers, that they sin not in admitting such: but declares him neither to have right before God nor to his own conscience. Yea, for all this profession Magus sinned in being baptized, Magus usurped, and hath no true and real right, no not Ecclesiastick, except in a most unproper sense; the Church hath right and command to receive him to membership and seals, but he sins in occupying room in the house, and receiving seals, having no true right to membership and seals: it is scarce excusable (but it is among that godly mans errors) that Mr. H. saith, graceless men, as Page  124 Ishmael and Esau, have the best Right that can be to Ordinances, to wit, the command of God. But ah! Magus and such Come∣dians have no command to receive the seals, but conditional commands, If they believe; which they never do. I return to Mr. H.

Mr. H. Profession most frequently is a publick acknowledge∣ment to the truth delivered in the Word, and our resolution to per∣sist in the maintenance thereof, so it is used by distinction from practise; for an excommunicate person may so profess, yet it gives no formality to Membershp. 2. Profession is larger, and includes a suitable-carriage void of scandalous courses. 3. As it must not be too narrow, so it must not be too b••ad; though one hold some errours out of infirmity, as Iustification by passive obedence onely—This hinders not, but he may profess the faith sa∣vingly.

Ans. Here be three notations of the word, no Scripture for * any one of them. The fist is most frequent (saith he) and in∣cludes a resolution to maintain: But resolution, as such, is a se∣cret heart purpose; and profession must be visible.

2. Profession (saith he) is yet larger, and includes a suitable carriage of life. Say stricter, The species is not larger than the genus, or that which is as genus; man is not larger than animal a living creature.

3. Profession with some errors, should have been more wa∣rily delivered, left it set up toleration, the ruine of the one true Religion.

1. Profession, in Scripture, is rarely distinguished from Pra∣ctise; when it is differenced from it, then its condemned, 1 Tit. 1. 16. They profess they know God, but in works they deny*him. Jam. 2. 14. What doth it profit, if a man say, he hath faith, &c? For 1 Tim. 6. 13. & 2. 10. Heb. 3. 1. & 4. 14. & 10 23. Matth. 16. 17. & 10. 32. it includes a holy practise. Now Mr. H. saith, The pinch of the question is, Whether such as walk in a way of profaneness, though otherwise professing and practising the things of the Gospel, have allowance from Christ, or may be counted fit matter, according to the terms of the Gospel. But sure this is a pinch of a question made of contradictions, Whe∣ther one walking in a way of profaneness, and yet not walking Page  125 in a way of profaneness, but professing and practising the things*of the Gospel, have allowance to be the fit matter of a visible Church. A strange pinch!

2. Mr. H. takes allowance from Christ by his command, to be all one with being accounted fit matter of the visible Church by the Rulers; for the account must be of men, and the allowance of them as fit matter must be of Christ. But the truth is, there is no pinch of a question, Who ae they that are fit matter of themselves in se & in••insece, who have due right to Ordi∣nances, Seals? we say, onely sincere real professors. But the question is, Who are fit matter, having right to Ordinances in the account of Rulers and the Church, whether they have true right or not?

3. Allowance from Christ is ambiguous: for if it be referred to the Rulers, as Mr. H. seems to take them both for one; then the question must be, Whether Christ allow and command Ru∣lers to admit such as walk in a way of profaneness, that is, visi∣ble hypocrites, to be fit matter, having right to the holy things of God? that was never a question to either side, Whether Christ command to cast pearls to known swine? or the allow∣ance or command of Christ may be referred to the so walkers; then the question is as blasphemous, to wit, Whether doth Christ allow and command men to be gross hypocrites, and to take his Covenant in their mouth; though they hate to be re∣formed.

Mr. H. Profession conceived according to the compass of the ••r∣mn*explication (adde a causal power with Baptism too) doth make a member of the visible Church, and a member of all Congrega∣tions in all the earth; the expressions of Mr. R. load me thus to cnceive his meaning.

As. Then Mr. H. granteth, that his own conceptions, not my words (for he ought to have cited them) lead him.

2. I own no such explication of Mr. H. as I have shewn.

Mr. H. Profession lawful of the whole truth hindereth Mem*bership; as suppose one believe mistakingly, all the Churches on earth are ill gathered, he dare not be baptized and made a Church∣member: If therefore profession hindereth Membership, as this doth, then is cannot constitute Membership.

Page  126Answ. I retort this Argument; forbearing of all known * sins, and practise of known duties cannot constitute Member∣ship, as Mr. H. saith. For suppose one to be admitted a Chruch member, in a wicked mistake fall in an act of Adul∣tery, and to cover that in a known act of Murther, then can∣not practise more than profession constitute this visible Saint a member: for, that which opposes and hinders baptizing, and so kinders the formality of membership, that doth not help forward membership. So Mr. H. But such a practise blemished with Adultery and Murther, hindereth both one to be baptized, and to be made a member, for this practise will cast a man out; Ergo, it shall hinder him to be admitted a member. So also Mr. H. ibid. Arg. 2. pag. 92. So here, an erroneous profes∣sion of a Seeker, denying either Baptism, lawful Ministery, or right Churches to be on earth, until the Apostles arise again, constitutes not membership, but hinders it. Ergo, a sound profession gives not formality of membership, it follows not though Mr. H. conclude nothing against me.

Mr. H. That which giveth Membership to a party who had it*not before, that can restore Membership when he hath lost it. But this cannot restore Membership. Now if Profession and Bapism were sufficient to do the deed, Baptism remaining the same as be∣fore his Excommunication, and now his profession being re∣newed, there is the whole formality of Membership, which is false.

Ans. 1. The Argument supposeth that I make bare profes∣sion separated from a non-scandalous practise, the formal cause of Membership: but if one renew his practical profession by Repentance, he is fit to be re-admitted a member.

2. There may remain in one excommunicate person,

1. Sound profession.

2. Evidences of Saintship in Dvid excommunicate, ex∣cept in the matter of Uriah.

3. A real purpose to adhere to the Church-covenant; yea, and all the three remain, and holy and blameless walking beside in a dissolved member. Ergo, the Church-covenant gives not formality to Membership; but the conclusion is contrary to Mr. H. Therefore the Minor is denied in the sense that Mr. R.*Page  127 holds of real profession, as is before declared.

Mr H. That which gives actual existence to a Member, must*give interest to the whole actually existing, and therefore to some particular Congregation, for onely Individuals exist; and since*such an individual person is a Member, he must have reference to the whole that doth actually exist: and this the general nature doth in the particular Congregations onely.

Ans. What is concluded, is not the present question, but it belongs to what follows.

2. Individuals onely exist firstly, and kindely; but the com∣mon * nature of a man exists in Peter, in and with the Individual, and the nature of a Congregation exists in this or that Congre∣gation: but the nature of the whole integral Church, of which Peter is a member, as we shall hear, does no more exist in a Congregation, than the whole organick body existeth in the left hand: or the whole body of the Element of Water exists in a drop of the River Euplorates: But the Catholick integral visible Church, existeth in this or that Catholick integral visible Church. Nor doth that which gives actual existence to be a Member, give the same way exstence and interest to a totum, a whole integral body; the Thumb hath one way interest of ex∣istence to grow in the Hand, and another way interest of ex∣istence to grow in the body; and in all the parts of it, it is a member, or part of the hand, and also of the whole body, but the Thumb hath no possible interest of existence to grow in the head, in the leg. And so is Iohn a near and fixed member of the congregation of Boston, and a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Churches of Hartford, of Cam∣bridge, of Norwich, and of all the congregations on earth: but it follows not, Ergo, Iohn hath an interest of exstence to be fed and to exist at one time in all the congregations on earth; as the common nature of man, of substantia, corpus, vivns, animal, homo, exists in all the individuals at once: It is wilde Logick, to put no difference between a whole integral, and the parts; and whole essential, and the parts subjective; or species and individuals: so as one integral member may exist at the same place where all the members exist.

Mr. H. That which equally belongs to all, that can make no*Page  128particular appropriation to any out rather than to another: if a woman love all Christian men with Christian affection, she is not therefore a wife to this or that man, but this profession is equal and indifferent, as well to one, and to all, as to another.

Ans. All is granted; for we teach not that profession, as * profession, makes a man a fixed and a married member of this Independent Congregation, rather than this: so that it shall be spiritual Adultery to partake of Church ordinances elswhere: we detest such a comparison destructive to Church-communion; for profession, as profession, declares the man to the Rulers to be a Church-member in all congregations on earth. It declares (I say as before) but does not as a formal cause make a Church-member, and it declares he hath right as a citizen of the visible Church, that Rulers without sin may admit him to Ordinances: but profession makes him not a member visible of onely this * one congregation; yea, that one be a fixed member of this congregation, is, 1. An Affirmative command, not binding ad semper. Nor 2. does it tie, but as being a member of the Catholick Church, which is a confession of Christ before men. And 3. it is of providential conveniency for the more careful feeding, but not of divine institution or marriage tye.

Page  129


Whether Mr. Hooker doth concludently refute this which Mr. R. holdeth, That he who is a Member of one Con∣gregation, is also a Member of all Congregations on earth.

1. LEt it be remembred, in what sense I make profession and Baptism to have influence in Membership.

2. That I make not Peter a member of this congregation * onely, and of the whole integral Catholick Church, or of all congregations on earth, one and the same way, for though the right to Christ the Head, to Ordinances and Seals, be one, yet Peter is a fixed member of this congregation, a transient mem∣ber to all other congregtions. 2. He is a proper member, and nearer of this congregation, and a more common and remote member to all; as the thumb is a nearer and proper part of the hand, and a more common and remote part of the whole or∣ganical body; and Richard a near member of Norwich, and a more remote and common member of the Kingdome of Eng∣land.

3. I am constrained to take in some Arguments transposed by Mr. H. that were in the former Chapter.

Mr. H. To be a member of the Catholck Church firstly to a*whole, which a man neither did, nor can see nor do any homage to, nor receive any influence or direction from for Government, is a sublimated imagination.

Ans. This makes the Doctrine of Oecumenick Councels holden by Calvin, Melancthon, Luther, Whitaker, and all the learned Divines in the Christian world, to be a sublimated ima∣gination, and Mr. Cotton his associate to be sick of the same ima∣gination; and the decrees, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 of the Apostles and Elders, Page  130Acts 16. 4. by which the Churches were established, ver. 5. to have no influence of Government upon the Churches.

2. It must be a sublimated imagination, That the whole Churches of Jews and Gentiles, who could not see the faces of all the Apostles, nor do any homage to them, nor receive any dire∣ction (except in their Writings, which yet may be) from them, should be governed by the Apostles; and it must be an imagi∣nation, That the Apostles were members of the Catholick in∣tegral Churches, and never fixed and married members of the single congregation: and could every one of the ten thou∣sands of the congregational Church of Ierusalem, as our Bre∣thren will have it be, be governed by the whole Church, except they had seen the faces of all the thousands that governed them?

Mr. H. If a man that is a Member of one Congregation, e*also a Member of all Congregations on earth; then he can perform the duties of a Member to all: but that is impossible.

Ans. The duties we owe to members of the integral Catho∣lick * Church, are,

1. Common and personal, as Church-praying, Church-prai∣sing, Church-fasting for the evils of sin or judgement, Isa. 62. 6. Psal. 122. 6. Eph. 6. 18. & 3. 14. Rom. 12. 18. 1 Cor. 12 26. they being members of the same body with us, Eph. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. and their good or hard condition being known to us, (which say also they are one visible body with us) these duties are pos∣sible and necessary, if the meaning be, of occasional duties of love, not in word but in deed, as giving of alms to bre∣thren, * I judge of all congregations beside our own: Iam. 〈◊〉. If a brother or a sister be naked, &c. of what ever congregation on earth, where providence cast your lot to be, 1 Ioh. 3. 17. If, I say, he mean such duties of members to forreign Church-members, as Church-members, be impossible, I much differ from Mr. H. it is contrary to 2 Cor. 9. 1, 2, 3. Gal. 6. 10. And the like I say of duties, of occasional comforting, rebuking, warning one another, even in order to Church-members, and Church-duties; They are this way impossible, that physically I cannot be in all places to discharge these duties. But to fetch an Argument as watery, I might say, A man in Muscvia can∣not Page  131 be to a Scottish-man a neighbour, whom he is to love as himself. A man in Morpeth cannot be a fellow-member both with another mn in Morpeth, and with another English Sub∣ject who dwelleth four hundred miles from him whom he never saw, not can see. Why, its impossible he can discharge the du∣ty of neighbour-love to the one that he never saw, nor possibly can see; or that of a fellow-subject of England, as toward the other: Yea, by this its impossible one can discharge the duties of personal watching over five thousand members of the con∣gregation (as they say) of Ierusalem; for while as he watches over one, he must neglect fourscore of hundreds, and a∣bove.

2. What liberty and power a man hath in one particular con∣gregation*as a member, he hath the same in all, because he is a member every where: Then he hath power in choosing the Officers, and in maintaining them; and these Officers must be sought in casting him out.

Ans. What liberty and power a man hath jure, habitu, actu primo, by the right as a visible professor in one congregation as a member; that same moral right of Saintship (taken in a right sense) he carries about to all congregations on earth, whither∣soever he comes, as is clear by Letters of Recommendation (which I said, and its never answered, onely declare, but give no new right to Church priviledges) which our Brethren give * to members, by which they have right to the seals in other con∣gregations. But it follows not, what liberty and power a man, as a fixed, nearer and proper member hath in his own congre∣gation, that same liberty and power he hath actu secundo, and that he may actually exercise in all congregations; for to the actual exercise of it, is required the actual knowledge of him, and his right and qualification, that they with him, and he with * them, may act in a Church-way, in other congregations and forreign Churches: And also he cannot act with that power in all congregations, as in his own; not because he hath not the power in habit, and actu primo, but both he cannot orderly ex∣ercise it, and without scandal of usurpation, until he first evi∣dence he hath such power; and also because he cannot phy∣sically be in many places at once: as a Citizen of London hath Page  132 power and liberty to do the duties of a Subject of England, such as to save the life of a Subject, and to apprehend a publick Robber that waftes the countrey, in all cities and places in Eng∣land; but its impossible that he can be physically present in all places of England, where his help may be useful for the per∣forming of these duties.

2. Nor will it follow that he should give hire to any but to his own personal feeders, from whom he receiveth the benefit of feeding, Gal. 6. 6. 1 Cor. 9. 1 Tim. 5. 17, 18.

3. It is also an untoward consequence, Therefore be can∣not be cast out of one congregation, unless the Officers of all others did cast him out: for that is physically impossible, God will have the Catholick integral Church to purge it self in its parts, and its no more necessary nor convenient that the whole inte∣gral Church should, or possibly can pass an actual sentence for the casting out of every person, than all England can convene in Parliament for the passing sentence upon every English Sub∣ject guilty of Felony, Murther, Sodomy, Blasphemy, Drunken∣ness, Swearing, &c. and all guilty of these faults, are both Members of either Cities, Counties, or Shires, and also Sub∣jects of the Kingdome of England: and the Argument is as strong in the one as in the other, even suppose Great-Britain were but one Kingdome. Nor

4. Will it follow, that a guilty person can require the con∣vening of the whole integral Catholick Church to judge his cause: for he can have no moral right, but such as all in case of scan∣dal have, why he should more decline the Churches judging, * than their feeding by the Word. Now since such a convening of all Officers to judge every scandal, is physically unpossible, it is not to be thought that Christ hath given a moral liberty to all delinquents without exception, to appeal to all the Officers on earth; for the infinite wisedome of God gives not moral power to physical impossibilities, that are physically destructive to edification.

Mr. H. If he that is the member of one Congregation be a member of all, I cannot see but of necessity it must follow, that*one particular Congregation must be another, Ephesus must be Smyrna, and Smyrna must be Thyatira: for where there be the Page  133 same individual members, there be the same whole integral body; and the ground is undeniable from received Rules: Integrum est totum cui partes sunt essentiales. Therefore the same members carry the same essence to the whole. I assume, there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations: For if one particular professor be a member of every particular Congrega∣tion, then all particular professors must be so; and so all of them members of one particular Congregation, and so of every one. Hence there being the same members of every particular Congre∣gation, every particular Congregation is the same: and thence it will follow, that Ephesus is Smyrna, and Smyrna to be Thya∣tira. Hence when Smyrna is destroyed, yet Smyrna re∣mains.

Ans. Its a pity to black paper with such Wind-mills. Where there be the same individual members, there must be the same in∣dividual whole or totum integrale. All the individual members of a mans body, either similar parts, flesh, and blood, and bones; or the Organs, eyes, ears, feet, hand, and all the rest taken together, as united, are the whole organical body of man; and so all the Congregations on earth, taken together, are, and make up the whole integral Catholick visible Church, existing in all the Kingdomes and States of the earth. But what follows? therefore the hand is the foot, where there be the same proper and nearer fixed members, the thumb and the * little finger of the hand, and also the same common and remoter members (the same thumb & little finger) of the whole organical body, there is the same individual integral whole, so as the one member is affirmed of another, the thumb is the little fin∣ger, and the little finger is the thumb: for all the organs are members proper, the eyes, ears, nose, of the head, the fingers of the hand, the toes of the feet, and all the rest, arms, legs, belly, shoulders, and all these same members are common and remote members of the whole body: Just as Peter is a fixed and near member of this Congregation, and also a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Church. And as all the Citizens of London are fixed and near members Page  134 of London, and proper parts thereof, and yet common and remote members and Subjects of England. Hence by Mr. H. his own Argument, Where there be the same individual mem∣bers, thereof necessity must be the same whole integral: So I assume (saith he.) But there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations. I assume also, Iohn, Richard, Thomas, Citizens of London, of York, are all in their very individual natures, individual Subjects of England. Ergo, London must be York, and York must be London; and Iohn Citizen of London, must be Richard Citizen of Yok. And contrary. Again I as∣sume, the same individual thumb, and individual little finger and toes, and individual eyes and ears, are all members of the hand, or congregation of fingers, of the feet and society of toes, &c. and they are also common members of the whole or∣ganical body. Therefore by Mr. H. his Logick, the thumb must be the little finger; and when the thumb is cut off, the thumb remains. Let Mr. H. or any for him, answer Mr. H. his Sophism.

2. Mr. H. makes an Assumption, but could not infer any conclusion, nor frame a Syllogism. This connexion is never proved, There are the same members, common, remote, of eve∣ry particular Congregation, or of all the Congregations on earth, therefore every Congregation is the same, and Ephesus must be Smyrna. Put Mr. H. or any man for him, to prove the con∣nexion, and they must be silenced; These Congregations must be the same, and the one must be affirmed of the other, which have the same individual persons to be common members to both. No∣thing more false: and so Mr. H. his received Rules vanish. For * say that all Citizens of York were Citizens of London, and Ci∣tizens of London were also Citizens of York, and they had the same common Laws, City-priviledges, the same Rules, it fol∣lows onely they differ not in nature, but in number and acci∣dents; but no Logick can infer, Erg, York is London, and Lon∣don is York; or that the one is affirmed of the other, as Ephe∣sus is said to be Smyrna. So nothing follows, but onely Ephe∣sus and Smyrna are not Churches different in essence and na∣ture, but onely in number, which is that which we teach.

Mr. H. Mr. R. yieldeth, that one Church hath not power over*Page  135another; but if one, who is a member of one Congregation, be a member of all, then the members of this. Province may send mes∣sengers to the Synod of another Province.

Answ. Mr. H. would do well to prove his deductions; for common members as common members send not Commissio∣ners, nay, nor one Church to another: but as God is the God of order, so such a Church in an association do send to a larger Church.

Mr. H. It is folly to seek differences (saith Mr. R.) between Con∣gregations, from a Chuch covenant, which is common to all Con∣gregations. It is true (saith Mr. H) particular Congregations, and Church covenants differ not in essence and nature; but there is a real difference from this Church in another Church, in their speci∣ficating, and individual formality. The rule of old was, Genus cum forma constituit speciem.

Answ. It is great folly to seek differences essential, when all Congregations agree in the last specifick difference: This Con∣gregation and that Church differ only in accidents, except Mr. H. shew us essential and specificating differences between one Christ the head, one faith, one Baptism, one hope of Glory, one Lords Supper, one Bread in all Churches, Eph. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor. 12. 13. one power of binding on earth, one and the same body, Matth. 18. 15, 16, 17, 18. Ioh. 20. 21, 22. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13. from the same Christ, the same Faith, the same Baptism, &c. in another Congregation: and when the Church of the Jews, and the Church of the Gentiles differ only as two Sisters, Cant. 8. 8. and in regard of age (which is a meer acci∣dent) as Mother and Daughter, Isa. 54. 1, 2. Isa. 49. 20, 21. Cant. 3. 4. It is folly for Mr. H. to trouble us with new Logick, such as the specificating formality in Peter, for that is no new degree of essence in Peter which was not in man, but the same contra∣cted to the individual differences of time, place, figure, &c. Let Mr. H. shew a specifick difference between Christ and the seal in this and in that Congregation.

2. That Genus cum forma constituit speciem, is neither old nor new rule, the true rules are Genus & differentia constituunt spe∣ciem & compositum Metaphysicum, and materia & forma consti∣tuunt compositum se corpus Physicum.

Page  136 3. Whereas Mr. H. saith that this and this Congregation and this Church-covenant differ really ut res & res, and if they differ in accidents, these must be either common or proper; it's answered.

1. Mr. Cotton and Mr. Hooker are not two new kinds and spe∣cies * of Pastors, because officers of divers Congregations, and Iohn and Peter members of the same Congregation differ ut res & res; and so in the Church of Ierusalem there shall be five thousand species and kinds of members, five thousand kinds of Church-covenants, of Baptisms, of Lords Suppers, of new spe∣cies of rights to the Seals in one single Congregation. For they differ really ut res & res, when as they differ only in number: and it were good that Mr. H. had expressed to us, what be these proper accidents by which Congregations differ among them∣selves. It is true the particular combination gives distinct being to the Classis; but it gives not a being distinct in nature and es∣sence, but only in individual properties from the being of other Classis.

Mr. H. How comes it this Church hath power over this person,*which another Church hath not, but from some speciall engage∣ment?

Ans. It is from no marriage engagement, but from providen∣tial conveniency; the wise Lord seeing it Physically impossible, that the whole Catholike Church so numerous can be fed in the same field, by the same men, therefore he divided them in sundry little flocks, over which the shepherds combined, have power not as married husbands but as meer servants.

Mr. H. The peculiar and individual formalities of engagements difference all voluntary covenants; should a man say, I am a Ma∣ster of servants, therefore thou art my servant: servant-covenant is common to all, there is only a difference in number and some acci∣dents: a people might say to a Pastor of another Congregation, The covenant between Pastor and People is common to all, and makes no difference, but in number and accidents; therefore thou art our Pa∣stor: that a man should be a general husband to all women, and a wo∣man Page  137 a general wife to all men, because marriage-covenant is com∣mon, seems folly; we are content to bear the charge of folly.

Answ. 1. I am far from charging folly on these godly men, but weakness should appear in the Argument, If Mr. H had framed an Argument thus; if all Covenants of Master and ser∣vant, of husband and wife, agree in essence and nature, and differ in number and accidents only, then may a Master claim all men on earth to be his servants, and then may a husband claim all women on earth to be his married wves.

This is most false, and not proved by Mr. H. for the just con∣tradiction is true.

If covenants between Master and Servant, between Husband * and Wife differ in number; then must a Master make a covenant in number different with servants; one with this servant, and another covenant different in number from that, with another; or then he can claim neither the one nor the other for his ser∣vant, because covenants between master and servant, are all of the same common nature: nor because Abraham married Sa∣rah, and all marriage-covenants are of the same essence and na∣ture, can Abraham claim Hagar and another third woman, and a fourth for his wives, and except he have a marriage covenant with Hagar different in number from the marriage-covenant with Sarah, and a third marriage-covenant with the third dif∣ferent in number, he cannot claim any of them for his wives: for Hagar may say, though all marriage-covenants be of the same essence and nature; yet because Abraham never made a marriage-covenant with me by name, which is essentially requi∣red in all covenants of that kind, he is not my husband, nor am I his wife. So a people cannot say to a Pastor of another Con∣gregation, thou art our fixed, proper Pastor, obliged to reside with us, and to imploy thy labours ordinarily upon us only, except they had particularly chosen him by name; but this will not hinder, but all elections and covenants with Pastors, as fixed and ordi∣nary labourers with them, are of the same essence and nature, and differ only in number and accidents; nor can this hinder but a Pastor of another Congregation is a Pastor habitu and actu primò, to all Congregations on earth, and no married hus∣band to that Congregation: though it be physically impossible, Page  138 and contrary to reason, to say he can be a fixed, proper chosen Pastor to all the Congregations of the earth; for fixedness and election of the people is not of the essence of a Pastor.


The Arguments of Mr. R. against the Church-Covenant are vindicated.

MR. H. Relation as such is not a foundation of a Covenant, when Twins are born, or Brethren and Sisters near to other in time. The duties issuing there from have their rise and power from the Impression of the Rule of nature, such relations may be multi∣plied without a covenant.

Answ. This destroys your Church-covenant, for many in sister-Churches, men and women, are born over again, and made visible members of the body of Christ, and made fellow Citi∣zens to them that are far off, and near to the whole houshold of God, Jewes and Gentiles, Eph. 2. 19, 20, 21. Eph. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13. Heb. 12. 22, 23. And the duties * issuing hence rise from no covenant soddering the members to∣gether in one single flock: for they belong to many flocks, but only from the rule of renewed nature. Therefore Mr. H. is ob∣liged to prove, if there be a necessity of a voluntary covenant, that visible Saints of two Congregations now agreeing to be fellow-members of a third Congregation, are now more bre∣thren by Mat.8. then before, and have more one Faith, one Bap∣tism, one visible head Christ, one Hope, do more eat one Bread, 1 Cor. 10. then before; are more, yea, now, and never till now, by a positive institution and command obliged to Church cove∣nanting, to Church watching one over another, whereas by this way they were never visible members, nor visible fellow-Citizens before.

And 2. so Paul hath been less accurate then our brethren in the visible oneness of brethren.

Page  139 3. There must be no visible brotherhood, nor Church one∣ness, but by ordinary meeting within the walls of the same house.

And 4. this covenanting either implicit or explicit must be of as great necessity as a visible Church on earth.

Mr. H. The covenant once made by mutual agreement of parents,*may be communicated to the seed, without their consent, Deut. 29. 10. A Minister is a Minister to children born of parents, who have elected him to be their Minister, and they are within the cove∣nant, by vertue of that covenant which their parents made.

Answ. 1. Nothing then makes children within the covenant * of grace visibly, but your Congregational covenant. But sure Israels seed by Deut. 29. 10, 11, 12, &c. and Gen. 17. 7. Act. 2. 39. were born in visible covenant with God, and they knew not a∣ny such Congregational watching over one another.

2. The seed of dissolved members, visible Saints, are then without any sin in parents and children (to speak comparative∣ly) born Pagans, but the Scripture teacheth us of no losing of co∣venant-right, but by sin, either of the parties themselves, or of their parents.

3. How are then children of covenanting parents born Church members; yet, when come to age, if they cannot evi∣dence their regeneration holden all their life, for no Church-members are debarred from the Lords Supper, living and dying Pagans? are Ministers, because of their covenant, Ministers to Pagans?

4. The Scripture teacheth that parents oblige the children to the Gospel-covenant, Deut. 29. Gen. 17. but no Scripture teach∣eth that parents lay bands of oath and vow of God to be visi∣ble members of only (for example) the Congregation of Boston, of only Hartford; for look what covenant obligation lies upon the parents which is to that Congregation by name only, the like must lie upon the children.

Mr. H. Among such who by no impression of nature, no provi∣dence,*or appointment of God, or reason, have power each one over an∣other, there is a necessity of a free engagement by consent, as be∣tween Prince and people, husband and wife, master and servant, and the covenant being once made, there needs no new covenant to the exercise of the duties belonging to that relation.

Page  140Ans. The vow in Baptism, and the Gospel-covenant professed * by me, without any new engagement, obligeth me in all Chur∣ches I am in, to be my brothers keeper, and watch for his soul, otherwise I may make this count, Lord, I was not obliged to any Church-watching over my brother, but my Congregational brother by Mat. 18.

But 1. was he not thy brother before thou wast inchurched into one Congregation with him? (shall the Lord say.)

2. Wast thou not to eat the same bread with him before as then? by 1 Cor. 10. 17.

Secondly, there is no need of engagement to watch Congre∣gationally over all with whom thou eatest the Lords Supper, ex∣cept thou being so journer enter in oath to every Congregation, and break it in the morrow.

Thirdly, The covenant of Prince and people, husband and wife hath nothing to do with this, except the nearer visible one∣ness, brotherhood, &c. of which I spoke, be cleared from Scrip∣ture; and M. H. prove that Peter is tied by oath to that only Pastor and Flock, as subjects to one only soveraign.

Mr. H. The covenant of grace may be taken in the narrowest acception (believe and live) so it is inward and invisible between the soul and God. But if you take it in the breadth, as it includes whatever is warranted by the Gospel, so it is visible and includeth the Church-covenant, and its ordinance of the Gospel, but not pro∣perly the covenant of the Gospel if the Churches be dissolved through persecution, they are not obliged to the duties of confederacy.

Ans. (Believe and live) is not the narrowest, nor the invisible covenant, but the summe of all duties given to all the visible Church, Ioh. 3. 16, 18. Ioh. 5. 24, 40. Ioh. 11. 26, 27. Rom. 10. 9.

2. If this be a Gospel ordinance, give us Scripture for it.

3. Dissolved members are never loosed from Church-war∣ning, comforting, rebuking, otherwise they were not to gaine their brethren.

4. Christ by no hint or shadow, layes the duty of gaining a brother upon our membership with single Congregations, a thing of order and providential necessity; but upon brother∣hood, Mat. 11. If thy brother trespass against thee, &c. Now he Page  141 is as near my brother who is of another Congregation, or a dis∣solved member, as he who is my Congregational Brother.

5. The inclosed gainable trespassing bretheren within the * pinfold of a single Congregation, seem to make onely the Congregation the visible Kingdom of Christ; the Scripture teaching, Nations, the Kindreds and Kingdoms of the world to be his, Rev 11. 15. Rev. 2. 1, 2, 3. Ps. 22. 27, 28. Ps. 72. 3, 4, 5, 6. Ps. 2 8, 9. Isa. 60. 1, 2, 3, &c. It is true, Christ exerciseth his Mi∣nisterial power as King in Congregations, yea, and in Synods also, saith Mr. Cotton. 2. The oneness of his visible body is larger then a Congregation, 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor 12. 12, 13, &c.

Mr. H. That a Minister swear an oath of fidelity (saith Mr. R.)*to the flock; a Father, a Master to discharge duties to Children and Servants is lawful, but to tye the essence of a Minister, Father, Master to this oath, so that he is no Minister before he thus swear, is to lay bnds where Christ hath laid none, and will-worship.

Ans. The instance of a Father, because it results upon a rule of nature, without any free consent required, is not to the purpose; the other two cuts the throat of Mr. R. cause; can any charge an∣other to be his servant without mutual engagement? that which makes a man a Pastor to this people, is the free choice of the people; we do not make the swearing to do our duty, to be our covenant; a witness ties himself by oath to tell the truth in a Court, here is no covenant between man and man at all. Those are to be distin∣guished.

  • 1. An agreement of persons to combine and associate.
  • 2. The doing of these duties.
  • 3. The swearing they will do them; the first is the form of the Corproation; the other two may be done after they be combined.

Ans. 1. The instance brought by me is as well of a moral fa∣ther, * as a natural father, and his either agreeing by promise or oath to the people, makes him not a Pastor, (a Pastor to them is another thing) nor doth the election of the people make a Pa∣stor, the ordination of the Elders by prayer makes him a Pastor, Act. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2.

2. The being a Pastor to the people doth not make a Pastor, for it is but actus secundus, the exercise of his calling, not the essence of the Minister.

Page  142 3. The man doth tender the Lords Supper, which is a speci∣fick and proper act of a Pastor, and that warrantably, to these who are of another Congregation, and never chused him for their Pastor.

2. The other two hurt not the truth (I desire not to plead mine own cause) a man is made a servant to a master by mutu∣al * agreement, true: Ergo a Minister is made an Embassador, Pastor, and Servant of Christ by the election of the people; it follows not: for were he a servant in relation to the people onely, this were something; but the peoples chusing of him hath not any influence at all in the essence of a Pastor.

3. My Argument proves, that swearing, as it includes a free agreement to the duties of a Father (Moral) or Officer, or Ma∣ster, or Pastor, doth not make the man a Father, a Master, a Pa∣stor, especially when the man is Father, servant of Christ, and Pastor habitu, and actu primo, to all the Churches on earth, be∣fore he agree to be Father and Pastor to this Congregation, as I thus illustrate, a free City appoint four men fearing God to be Rulers, or Bailiffes to them, the City divides it self into four quarters: the first quarter agreeth with such a man to rule them: The next quarter agreeth with the second to rule, and so do the rest. Now no man can say this first quarter made the man a Magistrate, for the whole City made all the four of private men to be publick Magistrates, and quarters by agreement did only appropriate their labours to them. So Titio covenants with a Mason, with a Gardener to build him a House, and plant him a Vineyard; yet this agreement makes neither the one a Ma∣son, nor the other a Gardener, for they were such before: nor doth the sick mans chusing of such a Physician to cure him, make the man a Physician. Any man knows that the people call and chuse Epaphroditus, not that they may make him a gracious and an able Minister, but because they discerned him to be such, there∣fore they chused him.

4. A Witness who swears to tell the truth, engageth cove∣nant-wise to tell the truth, though the engagement be put upon him by the command of the Judge.

Mr. H. Neither the incestuous Corinthian, 2 Cor. 2. 73, 74. (saith Mr. R.) nor these 3000. Act. 2. nor Samaria, nor any planted Page  143 Churches of Ephesus, Acts 19. of Corinth, Acts 18. Berea, Philippi, Thessalonica, Rome, give any hint of a Church-cove∣nant. Ans. The Churches forgiving and confirming of their love to the incestuous Corinthian, was a receiving of him of new to covenant; had his profession at large made him a member, he had been a member whether the Church received him or not; or had ba∣ptism made him a member, that remaining, he should have been a member; a disfranchised man is so received by Covenant anew to City-priviledges.

Ans. 1. Nothing is answered to these celebrious Samplar-Churches planted without this new covenant.

2. One excommunicate for a particular scandal, as the ince∣stuous *Corinthian was, retaining some profession, retaineth some membership, and is onely deprived of Church-honour, and of some Ordinances.

3. But of Baptism before.

4. The forgiving of that man, may say somewhat to the re∣storing of him to the priviledges of the Covenant of Grace, but nothing of a Church-covenant.

5. The civil Corporations way of re-admitting disfranchised members, is no binding Rule to the Church of God.

Mr. H. There is no word of Church-covenant in these places, Acts 2. it follows not, Ergo, it is not in the word.

Ans. The consequence is not valid from particular Nega∣tives: but if there be no Covenant in any place, where men∣tion * is made of planting of Churches, it holds well. Heb. 7. 14. Moses (who in his writings speaks of all sorts of Priests) spake nothing concerning Priesthood in the Tribe of Iudah: Ergo, there is no Priest of that Tribe. And there is no hint in Scripture, where the sacrifice of Christ is spoken of, that there is any ungodly sacrifice: Ergo, (say our Divines) the sacrifice of the Mass is a device of men. So no such Covenant is in Scripture in framing of Churches.

Mr. H. The solemnity of fasting and praying is onely requi∣red*at the first founding of a Church, Acts 2. where there is onely an addition of members, the stroke on the Spirit by the Ministery of the Apostles was so extraordinary, that they needed no mira∣culous discerning.

Page  144Ans. 1. Mr. H. may make the Reader believe, that I am against fasting and praying, at either planting of, or addition to * Churches, and therefore divides my Argument: for I argue from the want, not of fasting and praying onely, but

2. No Church-covenant was here; nor

3. Any frequent meeting of the members to be acquainted with the spiritual state one of another; nor was it possible these things could be in seven hours space. All which they require in founding Churches, and so there was no day of fasting kept by the Church baptized.

2. There is an addition, that the Christian Church was also solemnly founded.

Mr. H. Ther stedfast continuing was after they were added: Ergo, (saith Mr. R.) that could not make them members. Ans. Nor lies the Argument there from the effect to the cause; they continued; Ergo, they took themselves engaged to continue.

Ans. There is no doubt they took themselves engaged by * Baptism.

2. Did Ananias and Sapphira either continue stedfastly, or take themselves engaged by Church-covenant? for we now speak of visible actings that agree to Church members, as such; therefore they took themselves to be engaged members, and members to that onely Church by a solemn Marriage-covenant, is a dream unwritten.

Mr. H. Where there is a solemn baptizing into a Church, the person is made a Disciple of Christ, Matth. 28. 19. So to be a Di∣sciple, is to be ingraffed into the body of Christ, and to be made a fellow-heir of the same body, Eph. 3. 6. that is, of the visible Church, Joh. 12. 40. though many believed in him, yet they would not confess him, or be his disciples.

Ans. 1. If confessing, and being a disciple, be one; and if solemn baptizing make a disciple, as from Matth. 28. and Ioh. 12. Mr. H. saith: Then 1. Must Infants be actual disciples: 2. Actual confessors: 3. In danger to be excommunicate; for the Jews made such an act, Ioh. 9. *

2. Ingraffing in the body is to be made a fellow-heir, and of the same body of Iews and Gentiles, who were partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel, and fellow-citizens with the Saints, Page  145 and of the houshold of God, built upon the foundation, Eph. 3. 8. & 2. 19. and comprehendeth both the truly believing visible body, and invisible: And when, and who made Magus and Iudas partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel, and fellow-heirs of the same body?

3. Did ever man dream that this body is a single Congrega∣tion, and not that its the great Catholick Body of Iews and Gentiles, Eph 3. 5, 6. & 2 15, 16, 19?

Mr. H. The people are said to magnifie the Apostles, that is,*to approve their doctrine, and the goodness thereof, yet there was more required to this Church-work, and to bcome a disciple; and therefore its added, And the believers were added, i. e. they con∣fessed thir sins, and became disciples and followers of that Do∣ctrine, and so covenanted for their children: Else we cannot rea∣son against the Anabaptists, If the converted father was baptized, therefore the children. The place thus expounded is not taken out of our hand.

Ans. The scope of the place is not to shew the qualifica∣tion * of visible members, but that though Satan had made a oul breach in the Church, by the lying hypocrisie of Ananias and Sapphira, yet the Lord was mighty in the Apostles, by the miraculous and righteous smiting of the hypocrites, and other mighty wonders, to the admiration of all, and the terrour of many, Acts 5. 1, 2.—11, 12, 13. and that breach by their death was made up, ver. 14. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Believers were the more added, not to the visible Church onely, but 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to the Lord, which was a real addition of real believers, as the same phrase is, cap. 2. ver 47. not unlike.

2. The magnifying of Apostles, is spoken of beievers who not onely approved their doctrine, but confessed the power of God to be in the Apostles miracles, and some fear of God,* as Calvin saith: Oecumenius, They praised that Gospel powr; Chrysostom, They do not mock, nor threaten, yet they seem, as our Interpreters, to be medii homines, not wicked despiser.

3. He expounds they were added, i. e. they confessed their sins, and became disciples and followers of that doctrine. But sure, Page  146 confessing of sins, and professing of the doctrine, if he mean such a following s was in Magus, its a hungry Exposition of being added to the Lord, since it is in many hypocrites that are never added to the Lord. 2. If he mean, that they were practi∣cal followers of the Apostles doctrine, (as he must, if he say any thing more than what he said before) sure, that must be an habitual constant walking with God all their life, and cannot be before they were added, Acts 2. for they were believers, and added the same day, cap. 2 and cap. 5. Nor sayes he any thing for adding of visible members, cap. 5. but all their life they were added to the Lord. And is that the meaning of Luke, either cap. 2. or cap. 5? Sure, Luke sets down the history of men ad∣ded to the Lord at the sight of these miracles.

4. Its a wonder men are so bold with the Scripture! They were added, i. e. They became disciples,—and so engaged them∣selves, and covenanted also for their children But did their be∣ing added to the Church, and to the Lord, which certainly, in the sincere part, was real and sound believing, include the swearing of this Church-covenant to be watching members married to the onely single Congregation of Ierusalem, and to no other visible Church on earth? If to dictate be to prove, then we have more than enough of this.

5. If Mr. H. judge that Calvin, Pet. Martyr, Beza, Ur∣sin, Pareus, and our Worthies, cannot reason for Infant ba∣ptism * against Anabaptists, except thus; The fathers are married members by Church-covenant to one single Congregation; Ergo, Infants must be baptized: Or thus; The really con∣verted father must be baptized; Ergo, the children; We have a weak part of it, for this strengthens Anabaptists not a little; for the common Arguments both of our Brethren and the Anabaptists, are, They must be real converts that are Church-members, as I have proved. And sure our Brethren judge it absurd, that the Seal of Baptism should be put into a blank, or*to a falshood. Now since Baptism is the seal of our Regenera∣tion, either must our Brethren put a blank and a falshood (which the Church, who knows not the heart, without sin put upon Iudas) or then with monstrous charity they must believe all baptiz'd Infants are regenerate. But the truth is, the inward Page  147 state of none can be said either a falshood or reality to the Church, following the Rule of the Word in dispensing of Or∣dinances; for in the like, neither regeneration nor non rege∣neration can be the object of the Churches discerning. Also this is to be observed, that Christ hath made the sounder part of the visible Church, the Church in the actual exercise of Or∣dinances. For,

1. Christ never gave a power to erre or to sin to his Church visible, or to any part thereof; as Nature gave not a power to the locomotive faculty to halt, but to move: therefore he cannot have given a power to a Synod as many, but as pro∣ceeding right; and to Members as choosing discerningly, not as erroneously.

2. Those must be the Church, to whom the Promise is made, they fulfilling the condition, to wit, he must promise his presence to those that are convined in his Name. But if the larger part be the Church visible, because larger and more numerous to whom the Promise is made; then when the major part errs, and meets not in his Name, Christ should be obliged to fulfil the promise to them that fulfil not the condition, and ought not to fulfil the promise to those who meet in his Name, and ful∣ful the condition of the promise; which is abominable: for very often the larger part erres, and meets not in Christs Name, and the lesser part meets in his Name, and shall those who fulfil the condition be defrauded of the blessing promised, because they are fewer?

Obj. But so no questions shall be determined in Church meet∣ings, for two may say they onely meet in Christs Name.

Ans. These are but words: for if they not onely say so, but it be a real truth, and if all the rest erre in that act, these two are onely the visible Church, though men judge them turbu∣lent Schismaticks.

Hence, by the way, a word of that necessary and judicious question moved by Calvin, Matth. 18. 18. What ye binde on*earth, &c. Since the Church tolerateth many hypocrites, and absolveth and looseth many who do but counterfeit and fancy Repentance, shall we say that such are loosed and pardoned in heaven? Some say, by heaven here is meant the visible Church; Page  148 and they distinguish between Sin and Scandal: and therefore that by binding and loosing, here is meant, not forgiveness, or justification, or absolution from the guilt of sin in heaven, or in the Court of God, or condemnation for that sin, but onely deliverance from scandal, and the removing of scandal, and ad∣mitting of the man into the visible Church as a Member: sup∣pose his repentance be but hypocritical, yet when the Church proceedeth impartially, according to the Rule of Christ, the sentence is ratifid by God, and the man is loosed from the scandal, though not from the sin; the sin is yet bound before God, because he hath not really repented; otherwise the Church, who knows not heart-actings, and who really repent, who not, though proceeding right according to the Rule of Christ, should not have the promise of ratifying in heaven what they do on earth, fulfilled to them; which cannot be said.

But taking it for a good observation that Calvin hath here, that Matth. 16. Christ speaketh of binding and loosing concio∣nal, by the Word preached; but here, Matth. 18. he speaketh especially of binding and loosing juridical in the Court of the Church, by Excommunication or Absolution from that Sen∣tence. In the former consideration the question is easie.

No Pastor in preaching Gospel-promises or threatnings, can binde, but conditionally: If the party do not believe and re∣pent, the mans sin is bound in heaven; if he do believe and re∣pent, his sin is loosed in heaven.

As to the other, we finde in the Word no such signification of binding and loosing, in regard of scandal, but they are ever * spoken of in regard of sin and the guilt thereof. And there∣fore.

1. Calvin saith well, That the speech of Christ is directed to no other than to those who duly and sincerely do reconcile themselves with the Church; and the Lord being willing to comfort trembling consciences, is not setting down a Rule for comfo•…g of ypocrites: But by the contrary, because hy∣pocrites Soldly provoke to the Tribunal of God, when for gross scandals they are justly cast out; our Saviour saith, The sentence of Excommunication is ratified in heaven. The Scri∣pture-rule Page  149 is for such as obey, and for those who fulfil the con∣dition, non de obliquis.

As to the doubt, That the Church often absolves such who really repent not, how then can the hypocrite be loosed in heaven, when the Lord knows he does but fancy Repen∣tance?

Ans. Two things hère are to be distinguished.

1. The Churches proceeding in the external Court, as re∣lating to them, if they impartially, according to the Rule of Christ, proceed, and be not sudden in re-admitting, but see the incestuous man near swallowed up (though one mans measure of visible repentance be not the Rule to all) before they con∣firm their love to him, and forgive him, 2 Cor. 2. Suppose his repentance be but counterfeit, or not saving and real, as was that of Ahab, yet are they to receive him, and admit him to the Ordinances, and the Lord ratifies what they do in hea∣ven. As

1. The Lord ratifies Philips baptizing of Magus; and the * Lord approves the Servants inviting to the marriage-supper the man that wanted the wedding-garment: for what the Lord commands, that he must approve and ratifie in heaven.

2. What in charitable judgements is praise-worthy, that God also must ratifie in heaven; yea, it is praise-worthy in the Di∣sciples, when they heard Christ say, One of you twelve hath a Devil, one of you shall betray the Son of Man; every one suspect∣ed and feared himself; none of the eleven suspected Iudas, but gave him charity.

3. Without this God should not approve the gathering of Churches, nor the casting of the draw-net in the Sea, nor the sowing of seed upon all sort of grounds, the way side, the thorny, the rocky, the good ground, that the chosen, who are yet in the state of nature, may be brought in, and effectually called. But in receiving in Excommunicates, the Church would not be sudden. In the ancient Church, Sacrificers to Idols * were six years before they were received; they that defiled themselves with Beasts, were debarred from the Sacrament thirty years; Adulterers, seven; women who made away their * Births, ten years; such as uncompelled denied the faith, twelve Page  150 years. What other years Burchardus and Gratianus have, may be seen. Something for edification sure there was here.

2. There is another thing here, which concerneth the con∣science of him who is to be received, and when the Church-Court * applies the sentence to the conscience for his personal pardon, sure whatever satisfaction the people have for remo∣ving of the scandal, the sentence of Absolution so relating to him, is concional, not properly juridical; and conditional, not absolute; and therefore is to be pronounced by the mouth of * the Church, the Pastor, thus: Be it unto thee according to thy Faith and Repentance; and except the man really repent, his sin is not loosed in heaven. So then, the Churches loosing from the scandal is conditional, upon a seen condition of outward repentance morally sincere to the Churches apprehension, but they simply and absolutely make him a Citizen of the Church, and admit him to Ordinances, according to the command of Christ, both in private and publick Church offences, (If thy brother who offended, repent, forgive him) but his loosing from the sin or guilt in heaven, is ever conditional, and never abso∣lutely to be pronounced by the Pastor, the mouth of the Church, who cannot certainly know the condition.

Hence 1. the scandal is loosed in earth and heaven; the Church impartially following the rule of Christ sometime when the sin remains and is bound in heaven.

2. The Church may say the man is absolutely freed from the scandal, so as the Church sins not in receiving him in, if they Page  151 follow the rule; but he sins, and the scandal is bound in coming in, if he repent not: and also as to the guilt, he is freed from the sin only conditionally, for the condition of removal of the scan∣dal is seen, and visible: but the condition of the loosing from sin is invisible.

3. Sometime the man is both loosed from the scandal, and from the sin, and every way loosed in heaven and earth, when he both really and visibly repents.

4. The Church should go as near in readmitting a fallen sin∣ner, and loosing him on earth, as they can discern the Lords loosing in heaven: the Corinthians seem to exceed in this. 2 Cor. 2. 7. So that contrariwise, ye ought rather to forgive him.

5. There is more of real Saintship required, to receive in a∣gain one who hath been once a member and hath fallen, and was cast out, then to admit a member newly come from Paga∣nisme.

1. The larger the means of salvation have been, the greater guiltiness, as the scandal of a Christian is greater then the sin and scandal of a Sodomite, Mat. 10. 15. Mat. 11. 22. Mat. 12 41, 42. And therefore the repentance of the one must be more signal and larger then the repentance of the other.

2. There is not such a measure of marriage-love required of a Virgin before she be married, as after she hath been married, and born children to the husband; nor can any say there is so much knowledge required in a new Intrant that knows not the first elements of Philosophy, as in one who hath studied seven years.

Hence 6. it is utterly false, that as visible Saintship and real Repentance, as far as can be, is required of one excommunicate, before he can be received in again; so real visible Saintship, as far as can be seen, must be required in members before they be first admitted. But I desire our Brethren, if they judge the first receiving into the Church a loosing from sin and scandal, as re∣admission is, they will teach it me.

Mr. H. If Baptism be the Seal (saith Mr. R.) of our entry in*the Church, then is not this covenant the formal cause of Church-membership.

Ans. If Baptism seal our membership, then it is after member∣ship, and so not the formal cause of it.

Page  152Ans. There is in my argument no word that baptism is the for∣mal cause of our membership. Baptism is a seal of our solemn installing in the Church; it's a seal quoadnos, as state and fei∣sing in houses or lands is.

Mr. H. Though children do not covenant personally, yet they are included virtually in their parents, Deut. 29.

Ans. If Mr. H. mean Children not born, as the place Deut. 29. doth evince, what is that to the purpose? we have no que∣stion with any, whether unborn children have right to mem∣bership, or to baptism, non entis nulla sunt accidentia; if he mean * born infants are but virtual, or potential covenanters, as the seed is a tree in potentia, and no tree actu, so must Infants be no actual covenanters, but in potentia only. Anabaptists shall thank Mr. H. for this, for then they are not actually holy, Rom. 11. 16. nor actually to be baptized, nor is God actually the God of Infants; but some act is required of them, to lay hold on the covenant.

2. The Kingdom of Heaven then is not due to them, nay not a halfe salvation but in potentia. But our Saviour pronounced them actually blessed, and said, of such is the kingdom of God, Mat. 18. 14 Mat. 19. 14. Mark 10. 14, 15. Yea, as Christ cannot bless unborn Infants, not can he say, of such is the kingdom of God, if they be covenanters onely in potentia, and be such only.

Mr. H. This covenant is either the covenant of grace, or diffe∣rent*from it.

Ans. The new covenant is either considered according to the be∣nefit of saving grace given in it, and so this is not the covenant. Or 2. according to the means of grace offered, and so the Church-covenant is contained within the covenant of grace, and so the conse∣quence is null. A man may be in the covenant of grace, who is not a Church-member, and a man may be a Church-member, who is not within the covenant of grace, as Magus.

Ans. It is a doubt to me if Mr. H. understand his own distin∣ction of Gods decreeing, and commanding will; for with Ar∣minians he saith these are contrary wills.

2. My argument is this, The Church covenant is tither one and the same, or a branch of the covenant of grace, as it offers Page  153 grace externally to all, to Peter and Magus, or then it is a diffe∣rent covenant. That it is different Mr. H. denies, for then it * should not be warranted in the Gospel, if it be a part of the Go∣spel-covenant, how can they debar men of approved godliness, and visibly within the covenant of grace from ordinances? for such are implicitly in this covenant.

3. Some are (saith M. H.) in the covenant of Grace, that are not Church-members, and contrary: true; but not if they be externally and professedly as Israel was, for so to be Gods vi∣sible people in covenant, is to be Gods visible Church, Acts 2. 39. Gen. 17. 7. Rev. 11. 15. Isa. 19. 25. now we dispute whether the Church-covenant be not a branch of the covenant of the Gospel externally proposed. Mr. H. yeelds it is, only he saith, the Church-covenant is not the covenant of grace according to the benefits of saving grace given in it: true; nor is the covenant of grace externally preached, according to which Magus and Iudas, and all such Church-members are in the covenant of grace: the covenant of grace according to the benefit of saving grace given it, to wi, a new heart, and remission, &c. Then this cannot hinder, but when one vowes to duties in baptism, he also vowes he shall acquit himself in all duties of warning, rebuking, gaining to Christ persons in all Congregations he shall come unto: for sure to be buried with Christ in Baptism, and to rise again to newness of life, Rom. 6. 3, 4. Col. 2. 11, 12. Gal. 3. 27. 1 Pet. 3. 21. 1 Cor. 12 13. engages a man, when converted, to strengthen his brethren, to gain others, Ps. 51. 12, 13. Luk. 22. 23. 1 Cor. 7. 16. and undeniably to gain a trespassing brother, Mat. 18. and it must be commanded in the covenant of grace; and to exhort another while it is to day, Isa. 2. 3. Isa. 19. 23, 24, 25. Zach. 8. 21, 22. Ier. 50 4, 5. And therefore it must be will-worship and unwarrantable, to teach that a visible professor is not called, nor can lawfully gain a trespassing brother, as Mat. 18. until he be inchurched a member to that one Congregation, and that he is not to gain to God, and to bring into fellow Church-duties the inhabitants of another City, nor in covenant way to exhort one Page  154 another while it is to day, nor to strengthen one another in Church duties of love, while first we be all inchurched, by par∣ticular agreement, and covenant to this only Congregation. Yea, it is the nature (saith Mr. H.) of all Corporations, that one cannot be a Member, or free Citizen, without the consent of that Corporation.

Ans. If entring the covenant of grace and professed faith in Baptism put me not in a state of brotherhood to any, but to * the five thousand men, and multitudes beside of the same Con∣gregation, Acts 4. 4. and also Acts 5. 14. Acts 6. 7. (whose faces I never saw, nor can see, to enter this new covenant with them.) Then

1. All of other Congregations, as to the duty of Church-gaining, as to me are Pagans.

2. Mr. H. must warrant from the word the distinction of Christians, and of Congregational brethren.

3. To Christs scond coming, none can be made my Church-Brother, though visibly and professedly he have with me one hope of Calling, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, one God, one Father of all, Eph. 4. 4, 5, 6. but one of the same Congre∣gation, and that by this new covenant.

4. He is never my Congregational brother, but by this new engagement. Nor

5. Of the same visible body with me, notwithstanding of the oneness, Eph. 4. 4, 5. but by this.

6. Nor can he eat of one bread with me, contrary to Scrip∣ture, 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor. 12. 13. and our brethrens way, being not my brother, nor a member of that houshold of Faith, Eph. 2. which to Mr. H. is only a Congregational houshold.

7. Nor should I love him as a visible brother to me, contrary to 1 Ioh. 3. 14, 15. nor give him alms, as such, contrary to 1 Ioh. 3. 17, 18. 3 Ioh. 5. Iam 2. 14, 15.

M. H. The word (saith Mr. R.) teacheth that I should confess Christ, walk before God, &c. but that I am under a divine law to swear this covenant which is different from the covenant of grace, in relation to this duty, is no divine law.

Ans. But to say there is no divine law to necessitate a man to enter into another covenant for marriage, beside the covenant of Page  155 grace is strange. So a man may take the place, and do the duties of a husband to a woman, and tell her, I have been these many years in the covenant of grace, and there is no necessity to make a mariage∣covenant beside. A Nimrod might say, the Gospel teacheth to pay tribute to Princes, and the Prince to exact it, and there needs no o∣ther covenant between Prince and people.

Ans. The reason is altogether impertinent, for a Pastor is no * married Husband, no Monarch to rule over one single Con∣gregation only. So when he dispenceth Bread and Wine in the Lords Supper to fourty of another Congregation, which he may lawfully do, 1 Cor. 10 17. 1 Cor. 12. 13. As our brethren teach: the Pastor saith, I am no married Husband, nor Church-covenanting Pastor to you fourty forraign members of another Con∣gregation, but yet I do the duty of your own sworn, and only Hus∣band and Pastor to you, in dispensing to you this Seal of the Cove∣nant, and there is no need of a marriage covenant between you and me.

Is not this by Mr. H. his own doctrine, to quit the argu∣ment, when it undoes his own cause, and to say the compari∣son of husband & wife is blasphemous? And the like is said of that of Prince and people; for he is no Prince nor Magistrate to a people which never promised, nor covenanted with him for subjection and obedience: and a covenant is necessary in both these, but a Pastor may and doth discharge pastoral acts to these with whom he never entred a marriage-covenant, all our bre∣thren grant.

2. Mr. R. denies not, but there may be a Covenant between a fixed and a proper Pastor (to make him fixed and proper, not to make him a Pastor) and this Congregation, but that a∣greement makes neither Husband nor Prince; but my argument is, that the covenant of grace gives marriage membership to the man who entereth it, to all Congregations on earth, and war∣rants the sound professor to gaine a trespassing brother in all Congregations, without the new fansied marriage, or covenant Page  156 between him and them. And the covenant of grace entred did this.

See and answer my Arguments, and prove not to me a mar∣riage-membership with this only Congregation, by an asserted comparison, wickedly said. But Mr. H. speaks dishonourably of partaking Church-ordinances, and seals in another Congregati∣on, and from another Pastor, when he will have these acts to be adulterous, and traiterous, performed by no Husband, but by a strange man, and a forraign usurper and tyrant.

Mr. H. That of Baptisme is removed.*

Ans. The answers of Mr. H. are removed.

Mr. H. The Gospel requires me to seek for the help of a godly Pa∣stor, and to marry, and not to burn, therefore there is no marriage covenant to make a husband, and such a man a Pastor to me.

Ans. This heedless similitude ever brought to the fields is al∣ready removed.

2. There is a difference between making a man a Pastor to me fixed, and making him a Pastor simply; the former I grant, and Mr. H. shall gain nothing thereby.

3. If the Gospel bid me pray every where, remember the Lords death till he come, gain an offending brother every where, teach, warn, comfort the brethren every where; Ergo I must pray Church-ways, partake of seals, &c. at the Church of Ephe∣sus, of Philippi, of Rome, &c. without any new engagement, or covenant superadded to the Gospel-covenant.

Page  157


Whether a Pastor or Professor be first a member of the Ca∣tholick visible Church, before he be a member of a single Congregation.

MR. H. Some Paradoxes fall from the Pen of Mr. R. a Pa∣stor*gifted and called by the Church, is a member of the vi∣sible Church before he be their Pastor, though he be a member of no Congregation.

2. That a Pastor may have a calling from the Church before he be elected by a Congregation, and so an Individuum vagum, a Pa∣stor of all people, and yet of no particular people. But if all the Congregations are all the members that all the vsible Church hath, then he that is not a member of a particular Congregation, is no member of a visible Church, for that which comes not within the number of members is no member; but all particular Congre∣gations are all the members that a visible Church hath.

Ans. That he must be a member of a visible Church, before * he be the Pastor of a single flock is clear.

1. He must be baptized into one body visible, whether of Jews or Gentiles, 1 Cor. 12. 13. for an unbaptized man cannot be a Minister.

2. The qualifications of an Elder or Watchman, 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2, 3, 4. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 6, 7, 8. And that he be in covenant with God, and visibly holy, and th•• he as well as the Deacons, 1 Tim. 3. 10. may be proved to be such as agree to learned and godly members, who are broken off from membership for no scandal, but through persecution, and pestilence, then it cannot be a paradox, if some that are no members of a single Congre∣gation, and so visible professors known to be faithful and able to teach others, as 2 Tim. 2. 2. and so in covenant visibly, as the vi∣sible Page  158Israel of God, and as Gods covenanted Nation and King∣dom, Isa. 19. 16, 17, 25. Rev. 11. 15. Psal. 2. 8, 9. Psal. 22. 27. and members of the visibly covenanted people, and Church of God, be called to be Pastors and Elders, except it be said that publick suffering for Christ, and affliction only, and not sin make men learned and holy, uncapable to be Elders.

2. That a Pastor is made a Pastor by ordination, 1 Tim. 3. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5, 6, 7. Acts 6 6. by such as Timothy, Titus, Apostles and Elders is clear in Scripture: and not one word in Scripture saith, that unofficed men laid hands upon any to make them Elders. Nor will it ever follow that a Pastor may be or∣dained, and called a Pastor, or an individuum vgum, and ap∣pointed over no certain flock, except that Mr. H. prove that we now, when Apostles are ceased, do separate the ordination of officers by the Presbytery, from the election of the people, * and that the presbytery may do as the prelates, ordain a man to be a pastor every where, when as no certain flock calls him; which we teach not: for ordination only makes a pastor, sola ordinatio, but that ordination is not solitary, and it's alone, but inseparably joined with an inviting, and chusing, and consent∣ing people. But that consent and choice doth not formally con∣stitute a man an officer, but only appropriate his labours to this consenting people. Mr. H. argues here just as the Papists do. If we be justified sola fide, by faith only, and not by works; ergo we are justified by such a faith as is void of all works, and so by a dead faith: we deny the consequence, the man seeth with the eyes only, ergo he sees with the eyes plucked out of the head: The like Paradox M. H. imputes to me, if only ordination for∣mally make a Minister, ergo ordination now where Apostles are not, though separated from election of a certain flock, makes a lawful Minister in a setled Church-state, it follows not: indeed in some cases, as hereafter I shall clear, only ordination of Of∣ficers makes a lawful Minister.

Page  159 Nor is it here as Mr. H. imagines in the case of marriage; for marriage-covenant makes both a man a husband, and a husband to this woman only, and to no other: but election of the peo∣ple makes not a man a Minister, but only appropriates his Mini∣sterial labours to this flock fixedly.

3. Not is that any thing but a fansied contradiction, he that is not a member, inchurched and married to one only particular Congregation (for so is Mr. H. his sense) he is not a member of the Catholick visible Church; For Presbyterian members are so neither members one way nor another.

1. Apostles and members dissolved are not fixed members of a single Congregation, and yet members they must be of the visible Church Catholick: sure it is no Paradox, that the Apo∣stles are such members, for they had right to all the seals in all Congregations; Ergo, they must by this reason be members and no members: the like may be said of godly professors so journers, of these baptized by Iohn Baptist, Matth. 3. by Pe∣ter, Act. 10. by Paul, Act. 16. For if we say that professors are only members of a particular Congregation, then we con∣fine a Brother to be gained only to one Congregation, let all the rest perish, they are not my brethren.

2. To deny men to be members of the Catholick visible Church, is to confine all the Church-blessings, and Church-prayers, Church-comforts, Church-faith in Church-hearing, Church-partaking of seals to the one only Congregation where∣of I am a member, for in all other Congregations whereof I am no member, there is no assembly-glory, nor no assembly com∣fort * promised, Isa. 4 5, 6. no assembly, o Church-protection, and Church-leading from a cloud by day, and the shining of a fla∣ming fire by night, no joy in the publick sanctuary, Ps. 84. 1, 2, 3. Ps 42. 1, 2, 3, 4. Isa. 2. 2, 3. no comfort in a Church-way through ion in which the fool shall not erre, Isa. 35. 89. no more comfort to me, who am not a member of that flock, then to the Heathen and the Eunuch; for I have no more a place there then the Hea∣then: contrary to Isa. 56. 4, 5, 6. nor have I Interest in Church-holiness, Zach. 14. 20, 21. and the sanctuary beauty, Ps. 27. 4. Ps. 23. 6. which the Angels desire to learn by the Church, Eph. 3. 10. 1 Pet. 1. 12. 1 Cor. 11. 10. more then if I were excom∣municate by Mr. H. his way.

Page  160 3. Consider if this be not a Judaizing, and a confining of all these spiritual priviledges, and glorious Church-comforts, Worship, and Church prayer once confined to Bithel, to the Temple, 1 Kings 28. 29, 44. Dan. 6. 10. which Christ hath made common, and excepts of in all places, Ioh 4 21. 1 Tim. 2. 8. Rev. 1. 10. to one single Congregation, whereof I am a member.

4. Its against the nature of the seals, that is, our union by spiritual ingraffing into one body, 1 Cor. 12. 13. and we all eat one bread, 1 Cor. 10. 17. our communion in love with all the Saints is here sealed, and the broken bread seals the body of Christ broken, not for one man, and for onely one single Con∣gregation, but it seals Christs love to the Redeemed world, Ioh. 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 2. to the whole redeemed, saved, sanctified Church, Eph. 5. 23, 26, 27. Ioh. 10. 11. & 11. 51, 52. for the Ca∣tholick Bride, not a limb, a single Congregation is the complete object of Christs intent.

2. The complete and adequate matter of his work and soul-travel on his incarnation, dying, rising, ascending, interceding, giving of the holy Spirit, Luke 19. 10. & 2. 10. 1 Ioh. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 1. 15. Rev. 1. 5, 6. Heb. 7. 25. Ioh. 16. 7. Isa. 53. 11.

3. The onely complete recipient, and principal subject of all the gracious and saving actings of Christ, of Church-callings, of the Promises, Covenant preached.

5. By this the congregational body may say, I have no need of thee.

Obj. Yea, I have materially need of thee for counsel, re∣buke.

Ans. But is Body-need, Organ-need, and Church-need that Paul speaks of, 1 Cor. 12. 26. Peters body hath no Organ-need of Pauls feet to walk, for he hath two feet of his own; but he may have physical need of another kinde: So the Congre∣gation hath need of Heathens to rebuke them, but this is no Church-need.

6. Paul, 1 Cor. 12. would have no schism in the body, but would have the Churches to have the same Church-care one of another, and not to be divided in one Faith, one Baptism, one Church-head, one Church-Gospel, &c. which must be, if I be Page  161 not a member of all congregations.

7. We are to suffer one with another, rejoyce one with an∣other, but no Church-feeling is required of me, if I and those of another congregation be not of the same visible body, by vertue of the fellow-feeling between the members, the Apostle cannot speak of a natural compassion: for humanity will teach Christians to mourn at the destruction of Heathens, but they are not for that of the same body of Christ with us. But as * all these prove that there is a visible body of m••y congrega∣tions, and so that there is a Catholick integral visible body. So we thus argue: If the Church-actings, and sufferings, and re∣joycing condition of those of associated Churches be visible and audible to us, no less than the Church-actings, and suffer∣ings, and rejoycing condition of the single congregation, whereof I am a member: then must the one be a visible Body and Church as well as the other.

But the latter is true. The Proposition is clear: for if the properties and accidents be visible, the subject is visible; be∣cause this is the formal reason why a congregation is visible, for we see not the spirits and faith in the hearts of the single con∣gregation, but we see their profession in single persons, and their meetings in one place, for hearing, praying, praising and partaking of the seals. Now all these we see in three or four or six meetings, or conventions of the Churches associated, which shall but make one numerous congregation of ten thousand, as the dissenting Brethren said of the Church of Ierusalem: and we see them severally meet, as we see the Church of our own single congregation. As for their poverty, sickness, imprison∣ment, and the sufferings of these of the same congregation of which we are members, we see not these in Church meetings, but in single members, and these must be visible in many con∣gregations, as the famine in Iudea for which Paul made a col∣lection, as well as in one. From all this its clear, that it is false which Mr. H. saith, That all particular Churches are all the mem∣bers that the Church visible hath. For Apostles, godly sojourners, dissolved members, are not members of congregations, not are they congregations themselves, and yet they are members of the visible integral Catholick Church.

Page  162


Other Arguments against the Church-Covenant are vindicated.

Mr. H. Mr. R. plainly affirms, That when one enters a member of such a Congregation under the Ministery of A. B. he cometh under a new relative state, by an implicit or vir∣tual covenant, pag. 95. which is cross to that which was affirmed pag. 92.

Ans. Mr. H. cites not my words to the full. I deny not, * but he that enters a fixt member of a congregation, comes un∣der a new relative state of a virtual covenant, and so does he that enters a member of a Christian Army, of a Family, of a Society in a Ship. But the state of the question is not touched: for the state of the question is not, Whether this new Covenant make the adjoyner a member of the visible Church, where as he was no visible member before; that is, whether a born English∣man, by being made a citizen of London, was made an English∣man and a born Subject of England, whereas he was not a born Subject before?

2. Whether doth this New-covenant give him right and claim to Church-ordinances, and seals of the Covenant of grace, so as without it, the man hath no right at all to Ordinan∣ces. Sure, its a great sin to lay more weight on either the Tem∣ple or the Ark than God hath laid on them. But this Covenant so used is a fancy.

Mr. H. A Church newly erected becomes a sister-Church with others, yet she needs not a new Covenant (saith Mr. R.) to accom∣plish*it. Ans. No certain, our Covenant once entred, all the rela∣tions that depend thereupon are included in the first Covenant. A woman once being married, all duties to the husbands kindred re∣sults from the Marriage-covenant, there is no need of a new Co∣venant.

Page  163Ans. Yea, but a Church newly erected becomes as really a part of a Synodical body that is really obliged to engage for as∣sociation, saith Mr. H. (and its both lawful and useful) as a per∣son * becomes a member of the single congregation. And offi∣cers are no less married to Synodical duties (by the light of na∣ture and right reason (saith the same Mr. H.) than single persons * are married to congregational duties; therefore a covenant is as necessary in the one as in the other, magis & minus non vari∣ant speciem, if there be a marriage, here officers are more mar∣ried to the associated Churches in general, as to the complete correlate, than to the single and inadequate correlate the bit of a single congregation.

2. A man born in the Covenant of grace, and baptized, is engaged in all duties,

Mr. H. The Apologie said, Its not the Rule of the Word touching Man and Wife, Magistrate and Subject, that makes peo∣ple in such a state, but the Covenant thus stands unanswered by Mr. R.

Ans. This is for me; but he being born in the Gospel-cove∣nant, * and baptized to all Churches, he is a son, a married mem∣ber to all congregations.

2. Mr. R. constantly denied the naked comparison, as bla∣sphemous and Popish, the Church is Spouse to no sinful man, Pope or any other. Enaristus, The Councel of Carthage, of Sardis, of Antioch, so judge, That the Bishop is the Husband, the Church his Wife. Innocentius the III. As Almighty God hath left the Marriage-covenant to be dissolved by his own judgement onely, so let not the Bishop leave his Church. But Calvin and Luther say, The Lord is the Husband of the Church: So Bul∣linger, Musculus, Gualther.

Page  164 2. It makes communion between the Pastor and those of di∣vers congregations to be acts of Adultery.

3. It makes a Pastor to be married till death.

4. When the congregation is dissolved by persecution, the godly Pastor is cast out of his Masters service by the nature of this covenant, because he is faithful to Christ, and that by Christ himself.

5. It divorces between all godly Pastors, and all Churches on earth, so that it is not lawful to preach pastorally, or to tender the seals to another congregation, or any member thereof, though Letters of Recommendation (as our Brethren say) may give Church right to the sels to those of another congrega∣tion to be admitted to the Lords Supper; yet we still desire to Quere, Whether the Pastor, upon the banishment or death of the Pastors of sister congregations, may not lawfully, pastorally preach and tender the seals to them, or not? if the former, here is a strange man acting as a husband to another mans wife.

2. Here is a Pastor acting as a Pastor and a Shepherd to those that are not his flock, and that by no intervening of a Church-covenant; and he wants the essentials of a Pastor, which is the choise of that people.

3. Here is Mr. H. his relation between Pastor and People broken, and their principles destroyed, if the latter be said.

1. What difference is there between his tendring of the seals to those of another congregation in his own Church, and in another Church, except the walls of the house make the dif∣ference?

2. Why should he not tender the other seal of Regeneration common to all covenanted ones, Act. 2. 39. as well as the Lords Supper?

3. If he may not as a Pastor in another congregation; How, or by what authority of Scripture are Pastors onely Am∣bassadors of the King, Messengers of the Lord of Hosts, Workers with Christ, Stewards, Dispensers of the Mysteries of the Gospel, Sent of God, Friends of the Bridegroom, and can act onely as such within the precincts of a congregation; and lose both name and thing, when they pass over the line Page  165 to visible Saints of another congregation? The Priests might not offer sacrifice and offerings, but in the place that the Lord should appoint in his Word; shew us a word confining pasto∣ral acting 〈◊〉 Ambassadors to one flock onely.

6. This destroyes the communion of Churches as Churches, * and makes Synods, in which Pastors act as Pastors to other con∣gregations associate, (as Mr. Cotton teacheth) to be no Ordi∣nances of Christ.

7. The same husbandly power must be in Doctors, so that they write not books as Doctors to other Congregations, but onely to their own.

8. What Scripture warranteth the same Pastor in the same Sermon preaching to his own flock, and to many strangers of another congregation, to act as a Pastor to his own onely, and to others as a gifted man? and to hear in the same word to the conscience of the one by pastoral authority, and to the o∣ther by private authority, such as a gifted plowman or woman hath? *

9. Onely Christ is the Bridegroom, Spouse, Husband of his Church, Ioh. 3. Eph. 5. Cant. 6. 1, 2, 3, 4. and it will not suffice to say, Christ is the supreme Catholick Husband of all Chur∣ches, but the pastor is the under-politick head and husband of the congregation, as some distinguish. For the Husband and Bridegroom are as incommunicable Titles proper to Christ onely, as to be the Head of the Church, Eph. 1. 22. Col. 1. 18. and yet Jesuites do but mock, when they say, That Christ is the principal and perpetual Head of the whole Church in a sove∣raign and principal manner, but the Pope is the Ministerial Head. Nor do Papists make the Pope a Father, Husband, Bride∣groom and Head of the Church by the spiritual influence of life, motion and grace, yet are they refuted by Willet, D. Fulk, Cartwright, and ours: And Mr. H. will but ad nausam incul∣cate, that the Pastor is the married Husband, and the Congrega∣tion Page  166 his onely Wife; and that he may not act as a pastor toward others than his own flock, more than a man may venture to take the place, and to do the duties of a husband to a woman—and tell her he is in the Covenant of grace—and there need•… Marriage∣covenant. Hence I infer, he cannot dispense the Lords Supper to one of another congregation, contrary to himself and his Brethren, except he be married by a Church-covenant to them; and so he must be a husband, and perform the duties of a husband to a hundred persons, of a hundred associate congregations. But it had been fit Mr. H. had produced any words of mine that bear, that being in the Covenant of grace can warrant a man to discharge pastoral duties, either to one congregation or other, before he be lawfully called of God by the Church, and before he formally consent and engage not implicitely, but formally and expresly to feed the flock of God; or that any mans being in the covenant of grace licenses him to do all duties whatso∣ever of a Pastor, of a Magistrate, of a Husband, of a Physi∣cian, bfore he be lawfully called of God to the calling of a Pastor, a Magistrate, a Husband, a Physician. And Mr. H. wrongfully would that the Reader should believe, That Mr. R. so teacheth. There are some actions indeed that the visible and professed being in the covenant of grace warranteth a man to do, to wit, to partake of the seals in all congregations, without any new Church-covenant, to gain a trespassing brother, to counsel, teach, rebuke, comfort Church-members of all con∣gregations, where it shall please God he shall be for the present. And Mr. R. denies that these are either pastoral, or husband∣duties, and thinks Mr. H. in a great errour: for if one of an∣other congregation should trespass against a member of a sister∣congregation near by, Mr. H. hath furnished the offender re∣buked with this Reply: You and I are not congregational Bre∣thren, nor married members of the same congregation; and there∣fore the covenant of grace warrants not you to rebuke me, or to tell the Church of my obstinacy in Adultery, except you and I had both sworn in the same Marriage-congregational covenant: for the covenant of grace no more warranteth you to gain me in a Church way, than it warranteth a man to do husband-duties to the Woman with whom he never made any Marriage-covenant; and Page  167 so all duties of this kinde performed by Presbyterians never so godly, must be Antichristian and adulterous.

Mr. H. This new Covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the congregation, (saith Mr. R.) never 〈◊〉 of us (saith Mr. H.) said any such thing. The Church as totum essentiale, made of visible Saints covenanting to watch over one another in a Church-Way, is before her officers, the particular members are members be∣fore they choose their Pastors, and therefore are not made Church-members by this new covenant.

Ans. There be too many wayes to the Well here. I said, the new covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the congrega∣tion. Yea, I adde, A member of the visible Church, whereas he was no better then a heathen before, and the Churches of New England say with me; Though Mr. H. say, That never *one of them said any such thing. And sure this is one Church-covenant by which persons are made fixed members of a con∣gregation; Ergo, they are by this covenant made members of the visible Church, whereas they were as pagans before. But there is another Church-covenant, by which pastor and people are married, and every member so married, as they cannot act as Church-members without their own congregation, and he cannot act as a pastor toward any, but toward his own flock. Hence a new Quaere, Whether there be two different Church-covenants?

3. Its without question, that the family of Abraham was Gods covenanted people before circumcision was instituted, Gen. 17. nor is there any ground for a formal Church-covenan∣ting among themselves. And it speaks against all Scripture, to say there was a Church covenant in Egypt, and in the Wilder∣ness, Exod. 19. 1, 5. for they were not made Church-members, for members they were before, by these covenantings with God. And this is Mr. H. his own consequence, They are members be∣fore they chose their Pastors: Ergo. So I retort.

Mr. H. If this covenant difference the visible Church from the*invisible, as the formal cause; then there have been no visible Page  168 Churches since the Apostles times till now. Now the Churches (saith Mr. H.) in England, Holland, &c. have the implicit covenant, at their practice evidenceth.

Ans. Yet it must f•…ow, since presbyterian Churches believe and practice juridical power, without the bonds of a single In∣dependent Church in divers associate Congregations.

2. And do not contend for, but are against really supposed Saints, as only constituent members of the visible Church, and in the causes internal and external.

And 3. are so contradictorious to Independency, there have been no Church, according to the rule of the word, since the A∣postles dayes.

2. If an implicit covenant suffice, we shall find popish Churches to have much of that.

Mr. H. Though many unwarrantable wayet convey this covenant, yet it self may be warrantable.

Ans. If by ways Mr. R. mean, as he doth, wayes inseparable, * causes, pillars, means and undeniable consequences, the covenant must be the more unhappy, as the unlawful wayes of the Mass, the lifting up of the bready God, and Idolatrous Ceremonies in∣separably conveying it, render it unlucky.

Mr. H. It is a dream to say, that when the Apostles came to plant Churches, that private men, not the Apostles converted them; Where is the man (of ours) that will affirm that all (All) are con∣verted by private Christians?

Ans. The reply auswers not a whit to the Charge of Mr. R. now when the Apostles are not.

2. The Apostles, by our Brethrens way, are not Pastors so much as extraordinary nor, publick men, for extraordinariness destroys not the nature of Pastors; and to our Brethren Pastor and flock are relatives; but the heathen are no fed stock, nor these who now teach the Gospel to the heathen, Apostles nor Pastors. *

3. These who teach that now Apostles ceasing, Pastors as Pastors convert none according to the revealed command of Christ; but pre suppose all are converted before they be ad∣mitted members: they convert not as Pastors; Ergo, they must convert them as no Pastors; Ergo, they convert them as private Page  169 men, except there be a middle preacher between a preaching officer, and a private man, but this every where is taught by our brethren: now this middle uncalled man, must be the ordinary converser of all.

2. Mr. H. teacheth that the Church homogeneal, in ordina∣ry, now when there are no Apostles, is before Baptism and Mi∣nistry; now this Church is all the visible sovieties of confederate * converts on earth. Let Mr. H. tell us who converted them: not Pastors, for they are a framed Church in esse and operari, the Fathers and sole Creators of all Officers.

Mr. H. It is unwarrantable to say Pastors now convert not In∣dians*and Heathens, saith Mr R. It is warrantable enough, saith M. H.

Answ. Enough is a feast. Converters of Heathen now are either Apostles, Evangelists, or Ordinary Officers and Pastors, or of some middle new Officers: this latter cannot without Scripture be said, not the former, for they want the gift of tongues and miracles; nor are they ordinary Pastors. For Pastor and flock, saith Mr. H. Shepherd called, and Church chusing, Hus∣band and Wife are Relatives. But Indians are no chusing Church.

Mr. H. Men must be satisfied in conscience of the conversion one of another, saith Mr. R.

Ans. To reasonable charity they should, saith Mr. H. and no doubt it was in Ananias, Saphira.

Ans. But their long conversing together, for this satisfaction Mr. H. bringeth down to two poor experienced Witnesses, Ma∣gus* and Iudas, for every one must witness of another, and that witnesses were called and judicially deponed, that all the 3000. Act. 2. and all Iudea, and all round about who were baptized, Matth. 3. 3, 4. Mark 1. 5. Luk. 4. 21. were real converts, who can believe, except you believe? for so saith Mr. H.

Mr. H. What is all this to overthrow the covenant?

Ans. Very much; for it destroyes the Ministry: for though some private Christians may convert some, yet no man can shew * me, by our brethrens way, that pastors now do convert any at all; contrary to Mat. 28. 19, 20 Rom. 10. 14, 15. Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. 1 Cor. 3. 5. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Act. 26. 16, 17, 18. or if they convert any, they do it not as pastors.

Page  170 M. H. They which have no Church-power, can put forth no Church power, but such as Churches to other Churches.

Ans. The proposition is weak, they put forth an act of love, of counsel, of approbation, of conjunction, as well as power. Mr. R. grants one single Congregation to have no power over another; ma∣ny Churches sent to Parliament, to declare their judgement, may approve of their determinations, if holy, if not, may confute them; yet they have no Church-power over the Parliament.

Ans. 1. My argument is mistaken, many Churches, suppose mine, have not power by this way to receive in one Church, nor Iames, Cephas, and Iohn power to receive authoritatively Paul, as they do, say Calvin, Pelicanus, Pareus, Piscator, Diodati, Beza; yea Ierom also before them. *

Mr. H. If Mr. R. constue a token of consent, consensionis, to be a Symbole of authority, it is beyond my understanding.

Ans. Mr. R. never understands private consent, or private counsel, such as one private man or woman may give to another private person, of their own, or of another congregation, to be publick authority; but I acknowledge a publick authoritative, and Aopstolick consent to be in Iames, Cephas, Iohn; and their meaning was, Brother Paul, our counsel as Brethren, is, and our consent, you be a Preacher, but we have no Apostolick authority from the Lord to own you as an Apostle. Now that is the true meaning of Mr. H. for this of Mr. R. must bide yet strong: these that have no Church-power can put forth no Church-act. Such as one Church may put forth toward another single Sister-Church, as Mr. R. often granteth, as one single man cannot excommu∣nicate another; yet one single man being a Pastor in a Church, Judicature joined with the Church binding and loosing, such as is Mat. 18. may give consent, not private by way of counsel, but publick, by way of authoritative influence, as a partial and collateral cause, that Paul, Gal. 2. be authoritatively adopted into the number of the Apostles, & that they be excommunicate Page  171 who say, they are Apostles, but are not, and do lye, Rev. 2. and a married wife hath no marriage-power over any man but over her own husband; nor is it to be heard, which Mr. H. saith, I but she may put forth an act of love and counsell to all men. But I ask, may she put forth a certain act of matrimonial love, or perform a certain matrimonial duty to all men on earth? this would be too near unchast acting. So let Mr. H. answer, whether these three, Iames, Cephas, and Iohn, gave Apostolick publick con∣sent, that Paul should be received an Apostle, or only a private counsel. If the former be said, why contend we? if the latter, what more had Paul from the given right hand of these Apo∣stles then he had before? he was no more to them an Apostle then before, yea, more to three private Believers in Galatia; contrary to the scope of Gal. 2. These Churches sent to the Parliament that way, not representing the National Church and Kingdom covenanted with the Lord, can give no Church-determination, more then so many single Pastors; yet it is an of∣ficial judgement, not a private judgement.

Mr. H. It is not warrantable that one not in office (saith Mr. R.) *but a private Christian, should pray, exhort, preside in the framing of a Church, and in ordaining of Pastors. Ans. The practice of the Church of Scotland will say to this, we allow not publick prophesying of unofficed men.

Ans. 1. Here is ordinary prophecying, such as that of the * Apostle Peter at the calling of Matthias, Act. 1. and publick Church-prophesying and praying; such as is by the Prophets or presbytery of the Church of Antioch, Act. 13. when Paul & Bar∣nabas were called to be Apostles to the Gentiles: and since offi∣cers are but adjuncts of the Church to Mr. H. and separable ac∣cidents, by no institution of Christ have pastors hand in ordain∣ing pastors; but the setled way till Christs second coming is that the male-Church kindly per se, make and unmake all the officers, which cannot be done, but by Church prophesying of unofficed men. 2. Expectants being pastors in fieri, sons of the prophets, by command of the prophets, vi materiae, for trial must prophe∣sie: that you cannot warrantably say from Scripture of your pro∣phets.

highlight hits: on | off