CHAP. IX. Whether it be better to be under a Foreign or Home born Prince, and whether under a great and mighty Monarch, or under a little Prince or King.

THe Company being gathered together the next day, and shewing much desire to hear the point discussed about Foreign Government, whereof men∣tion had been made the day before, the Lawyer be∣gan to say, That for so much, as they would needs have him to enter into that matter, which of it self was full of prejudice in most mens ears and minds, for that no Nation commonly could abide to hear of being under strange Governours and Governments he meant to acquit himself in this their Request, as he had done in other matters before, which was to lay down only the Opinions and Reasons of other men, that had disputed this Affair on both sides be∣fore him, and of his own to affirm or deny nothing.

And first of all against the Dominions of Strangers Page  151 and Foreigners, he said,* that he might discourse with∣out end, and fill up whole Books and Volumes with the Reasons and Arguments, or at least wise with the dislikes and aversions, that all men commonly had to be under strangers, or to have any Aliens to bear Rule or Charge over them, be they of what Condition, State or Degree soever, and in this he said, that as well Philosophers, Lawmakers wise and good men, as others do agree commonly, for that we see both by their Words, Writings and Facts, that they abhorr to subject themselves to strange Govern∣ments,* so as in all the eight Books of Aristotles's Po∣liticks you shall still see that in all the different Forms of Commonwealths, that he setteth down, he pre∣supposeth ever that the Government shall be by People of the self same Nation, and the same thing do presume in like manner, all those Law-makers that he there mentioneth, to wit, Minois, Solon, Lycurgus, Numa Pompilius, and the rest▪* and he that shall read the Famous Invectives of Demosthenes against the pretentions of King Philip of Macedonia, that desired to incroach upon the Athenians and other States of Greece, as also his Orations against Aeschinos, his Ad∣versary, that was thought secretly to Favour the said Foreign Prince, shall see what Hatred that noble Ora∣tor had against Foreign Government; and he that shall read the Books of our time either of the Italians when they spake of their Subjection in times past to the Lombardes, German or French Nations, or to the Spaniards at this day; or shall consider what the French do presently write and inveigh against the Power of the House of Guyse and Lorayne in France, for that they take them to be Strangers, shall easily see how deeply this aversion▪ against Strangers is rooted in their Hearts,* and this for Testimony of words.

But now if we will consider the Facts that have ensued about this matter, and how much Blood hath Page  152 been •hed, and what desperate Attempts have been taken in hand by divers Nations for avoiding their subjection to strangers, or for delivering themselves from the same again, if once they have faln into it, you shall behold more plainly the very Impression of Nature her self in this Affair, for of divers barba∣rous Nations, Realms and Cities we read in Histo∣ries,* we read that they rather chose to slay and mur∣der themselves, than to be under the Dominion of Stranger;, others have adventured strange Attempts, and Bloody Stratagems, as the Sicilians, who in one day and at the self same hour, at the time of Evening S•ng slew all the French-men that were within the Island,* whom yet themselves had called and invited thither not long before; And the like is recorded in our English Histories of killing the Danes by English men, at one time, in most ruful manner; And the like was oftentimes thought on also by the English against the Normans,* when they Oppressed us, and by the French against the English, whiles we had Dominion in Fran•e, though neither the one nor the other of these latter designments could be effectuated, for want of Forces and Commodity, by reason of the watchfulness of the contrary part. But yet to speak only of France, the Rage and Fury of the French was generally so great and implacable against the English that Governed there, in the Reign of King Henry the VI. as both Polydor and other Histories do note, (•t what time, partly by the dissensions of the Houses of York and Lancaster in England, and partly by the valour of their own new King Charles the VII. they had hope to be rid of the English Dominion) as no Perswasion or Reason,* no Fear of Punishment, no Force of Arms, no Promise or Threat, no Danger, no Pity, no Religion, no Respect of God nor Man, could repress or stay them from rising and revolting every where against the English Government and Governours, murthering those of the English Na∣tion Page  153 in all parts and corners, wheresoever they found them, without remorse or compassion, until they were utterly delivered, of their Dominion.

So as this matter is taught us (say these men) even by Nature her self,* that Strangers Govern∣ment is not to be admitted, and moreover the rea∣sons before alledged against the King of Scotlands pretence, together with the example and judgments of the Realms of Spain and Portugal, who resolved ra∣ther to alter the true Order and Course of their Suc∣cession, than to admit Strangers over them, do plain∣ly Confirm the same.

And last of all, (say these men;*) the Authority of Holy Scripture is evident, in this behalf, for that when• God in Deuteronomy did fortel by Moses, that the Jews in time would come to change their Go∣vernment, and to desire a King as other Nations round about them had; he added yet this express Condition, that he should be only of their own Na∣tion, for he saith,*Constitues eum quem Deus tuus el•ge∣rit de numero fratrum tuorum, non poteris altertus gen∣tis hominem Regem facere, qui non sit frater tuus: that is, Thou shalt make a King at that time, such a one as thy Lord God shall chuse for that dignity, out of the number of thy Brethren, but thou mayst not make a King of any other Nation, but of thy own Brethren. Thus say these men, against admitting of Strangers; and it seemeth, that their opinion and affection hath many follow∣ers, for that generally we see most men affected and inclined this way.

But yet on the other side,* there want not other men, who appear both wise, dis-passionate and grave, that will seem to consider this matter far otherwise, and do say, that all this is but a common vulgar prejudice of passionate men against strangers, rising partly by corruption of Nature, whereby men are inclined to think evil of others, and to bear them little affection, especially, such as Govern and bear Page  154 rule over them, and so much the less by how much farther off they are from us in Kindred and Ac∣quaintance, and partly also they say that the same riseth of lack of due consideration in the most part of men; for that they weigh not the true Reasons, Causes or Effects of things, but only the outward shew, and so do run away with the Opinion and Apprehension of the Popular, which for the most part hath no other ground or foundation in it, but only Fancy and Imagination, or Incitation of others that endeavour to procure Tumults; and so they say it falleth out in this point, as upon exami∣nation it shall appear.

And for Proof and Declaration of this their Asser∣tion, they do require first of all, that this ordinary and common prejudice against Strangers or strange Governments, be laid aside, so long at least, as the matter is in Disputation, and that only the true effects of good and profitable Government may be considered,* without that other circumstance, whe∣ther these fruits do come from Stranger or Home∣born Prince, which effects are Peace, Rest, Justice, Defence of the Innocent, Punishment of the wicked, Wealth Security, and other such benefits, that good Government is wont to bring with it to the Sub∣jects. These things (say these men) are to be weigh∣ed indifferently, and without passion, by Wise men, and wheresoever these effects are more abundantly to be found, there the Government is best, and there the subjects are in best Case, whatsoever the Go∣vernours be, or of what Nation or Country soever they be. And this they shew by this example fol∣lowing.*

If in two Countries or Commonwealths, lying nigh together, the subjects of the one, should live in all Ease, Wealth and Prosperity, under a stranger, as divers states did under the Romans, and in the o∣ther they should be Beaten, Whipped and Afflicted Page  155 under a home-born Prince, as we read the Sicilians were under Phalaris and Dionisius their Country∣men, Tyrants; clear it is, (say these men) that the stripes and Afflictions would not seem the easier, for that they come from a Natural Prince, but ra∣ther the heavier, and the others happy case under the Stranger, must needs seem to be the better, and consequently his Government rather to be wished: For that in very Truth the goodness and defect of every Government, is to be measured by the effects thereof, that redound unto the Subjects, for whose good it was first ordained, as oftentimes our Friend the Civil Lawyer hath touched and proved before. And when the Subjects do live well and prosperously, are defended and maintained in Peace, Safety and Wealth, when Justice is done equally to all men, the wicked punished, and the good advanced and rewarded, when God is honoured, and true Reli∣gion maintained, and vertue promoted; this is that which importeth the Realm and Subjects; and not where, or in what Country the Prince and his Officers were Born, or of what Nation, Language or Kindred they be. For that,* be the Prince of what Lineage or Kindred soever, yet after he is once established in this Dignity, the Common subject can have no more conversation with him, nor re∣ceiv any more personal benefit of him, then if he were a meer stranger; except only by those common and publick effects of his Government before-mentioned; for that so soon as he is placed in his Dignity, he be∣cometh a Stranger unto me, little availeth it to me, whether he be of my Blood and Country or no; and I may say as the people of Israel in the like Case to Rehoboam, for that he was King Davids Nephew, and of the House of Jesse, thought his State assured, for that he was their Lord and Natural Prince, and so might press and afflict them at his pleasure: But they answered him plainly;*Quae nobis pars in Da∣vid, Page  156vel quae haereditas in filio Jesse, what part have we in David, or what Inheritance have we in the Son of Jesse, and so they left him, and rather chose to be under Jeroboam a Stranger, and his Servant under him.

This then is the first point which these men do demand, to wit, that we consider equally and ac∣cording to Reason, Wisdom and Truth, and with∣out all Partial Affect on, where and by whom, and by what Government we are likest to receive and enjoy the good and happy effects above-mentioned of Prosperity to the Subject: For that without all doubt (say they) that Government is to be deemed best, and that Subjection Happiest, where those Be∣nefits are most enjoyed, let the Prince or Gover∣nour be of what Nation Lineage soever. And on the other side,* that must needs be the worst Government unto me, where I shall reap fewest, and participate least of those effects, be the Prince never so much much my Countryman or Kinsman; and though he were Born in the same City, Town or House, yea in the same Belly with me: As for Example, those men that lived (say they) in Spain under King P•∣ter the Cruel, or in England under King Richard the third, commonly called the Tyrant; what did it avail them that those Princes were of their own Country or Blood,* seeing they did that unto them, which a Stranger though never so Barbarous, would scarce have done? As in like manner, all those Noble Houses before-mentioned in our Country, of the Dela Pools, Staffords, Plantagenets, and others, de∣stroyed by King Henry the Eight; what availed it them, that the said King was not only their Country∣man, but also their near Kinsman: What profit or Commodity was it unto Thomas of Woodsto•k Duke of Glocester, that he lived under a King that was his Nephew, to wit▪ King Richard the second, or to George Duke of Clarence in King Edward the fourths Page  157 time, that the said King was his own Brother, when both of them were Pursued, Disgraced, and put to Death by them, and lost their Lives, Lands, Dig∣nities, Goodly Possessions▪ Stately Mannors, and Gorgeous Houses, with their Wives, Children, and all other Felicities of this World; which perhaps under a Strange Prince, they might have enjoyed many a fair day and year.

This is that then which these men do first require,* to wit, that all Fancy and Fond Opinion of the Vulgar people be aparted in this matter, from Truth and Substance; as also say they, we ought to desire and determine who are properly Strangers, or Foreigners, seeing some do take for Strangers and Foreigners, all those that are not of the same Dominion and Government, though otherwise they be of the same Nation and Language, according as those other men that are Enemies to Strangers, said a little before (if you remember) that the Princes of the House of Guise, and their Kindred are taken for Strangers in France, by them that by that means would make them odious to the people, for that their Ancestors in times past came out of Lorain, which is a Province joyning hard upon France, of the same Nation, Language and Manners, but only under another Prince. And so I my self noted in my Traveling through Italy, that the Florentines are hated and called Strangers in Siena, where they govern, albeit the one state be not 30 Miles from the other, and both of one Nation, Language, Manners and Education. And on the contrary side, we shall see, that some of different Language and Nation do hold themselves for Country-men; as for Example, the Biscayns in Spain, do not hold the Castilians for Strangers, but are contended to be ruled by them, as by their own Country-men, albeit they be a diffe∣rent Nation, and have different Language and Man∣ners, and the same I do note in the Brittains and Page  158Normans towards the French, in the Welsh also to∣wards the English, who are a different People and of different language, and yet are they Governed peaceably by the English, and the English again do account them for their Countreymen, as may appear by that, when King Henry the VII. came to be King of England, I do not find any resistance made against him by the English, for that respect that he was of that N•tion, as evidently he was by his Fathers side, that was of the Tidders of Wales, so as this point also who be strangers and who be not seemeth to be a thing that dependeth much of the opinion and affe∣ction of each People and Nation, the one towards the other.

* And this being so, these men come to treat more particularly of the Purpose in hand, and do say that in two or three manners a Nation may come to be under the Government of Strangers or Foreigners, first as a Province, that is to say, as a piece or mem∣ber of another Dominion, as England was in times past under the Romans, and as Ireland is under Eng∣land at this day & as the Brittons are under France, & as many States of Italy be under the Crowns of Ara∣gon and Castile. And this may come to pass either by Conquest and Force of Arms, as the Welsh came to be under the English, and the English to be under the Normans and Danes, and as Sicilia and Naples came to be under the Spaniards, and as Normandy and Aquitain came to be under the French, and as almost all the World in old time was brought to be under the Romans: or otherwise the same may come to pass by Inheritance, as Aquitaine and Normandy in times past came to England, and as Flanders with the States thereof came to the House of Austria, and as Britany to the Crown of France, or else thirdly, it may happen by mixt means, that is to say, partly by Force and partly by other means of Compo∣sition, as Millain came to Spain, and Ireland to Page  159England, according as the Irish do hold, and so Portugal hath inour dayes come to the King of Spain, for that besides his Hre•ence and Right of Inheritance, he used also Force of Arms for getting the same.

Of all these three ways then evinent it is,* that Conquest is the hardest and most prejudicial to the Subjects, for that there all standeth at the will and clemency of the Conquerour, whom either Anger or Fear, or Jealousy of his assurance may often drive to hold an hard hand over the Conquered, at least wise for a time, until his Estate be beetter settled, so that I marvel not though no People or Countrey commonly would willingly be Conquered, but yet Policy also teacheth such a Conquerour, whatsoever he be, that as on the one side it behoveth him to be watchful and so to fortifie himself, as the unquiet can do him no hure, so on the other side it is neces∣sary by the same Rule of Policy to use all Favour and sweet means to content and gain those that be or may be made quiet, for better establishing of his State, even as a Physician after a vehement pur∣gation, doth minister lenitives and soft Medi∣cines, to calm and appease the good humours left, and to strengthen the whole body, that it may hold out.

This we see to be true,* not only by reason of State and Policy, as hath been said, but also by experience of all Countries, that have been conquered in Europe or other where, if the continual resisting and revol∣ting of those that are conquered, do not cause a con∣trary course in the Conqueror, as it did in the Con∣quest of the Danes and Normands upon the English, and in the Conquest of the English upon the British or Welsh, where the often rifing of them that were overcome, enforced the Nanquishers to be much more cruel and rigorous than otherwise they would have been, for all our Histories do testifie, that King Page  160Sweno the Dane,* and much more his Son, King Canu∣tus, as also William the Conquerour, had a great desire after their victories, to have appeased, and made much of the English Nation, but that they were ne∣ver quiet under them, and so in like manner the En∣glish Kings oftentimes gave their Daughters in mar∣riage to the Princes of Wales, and many priviledges to that People, thereby to gain them, but that their continual Revolting, caused much severity and blood-shed to be used and the like severity did they use always most favours, and gave them most cause oftentimes in the very Romans towards the said Britains conquered.*

But where the People vanquished were content to be quiet; and submit themselves, there the said Ro∣mans used all Favour and Moderation so as it is writ∣ten of them in the first book of Macchabees.*Et au∣divit Judas nomen Romanorum, quia sunt potentes viribus, & acquiescunt ad omnia quae postulantur ab eis: That is, And Judas Macchabeus heard the name and fame of the Romans, how they were potent in strength, and yet so gentle, as they yielded to all that was deman∣ded at their hands.

And finally their Government was so just, consi∣derate, sweet and modest, upon all Foreign Nations, which they had conquered, as it allured divers Na∣tions to desire to be under them, and to be rid of their own natural Kings, as of the Subjects of An∣tiochus and Methridates Kings of Asia and Pontus, we do read of, & some other• Princes also thereby to gra∣tifie their Subjects, did nominate the Roman Empire, for their Successor, as did King Attalus King of Per∣gamus, and Ptolomy of Egypt, and others, and it is the common opinion of Learned men that the World was never more happily governed, than un∣der the Romans, and yet were they Strangers to most of their Subjects, over which they Governed, and unto whom they were most strangers, that is to say, Page  161 unto such as were furthest off from them, to those did they use always most favours, and gave them most priviledges, as both Wisdom and Reason of State did require, for that those people had most ability to rise against them, and to rebell, so as this circum∣stance of being Strangers hurted them nothing, but rather profited them much.*

The like Rule of Policy and of State have all great Monarchies used ever since, that is to say, to shew most Favour to such Subjects as be most strangers and farthest from them; and on the contrary side, if any be to be pressed more than others, to press and burthen them most, that be most natural and nea∣rest home, and most under, and in subjection, and surest to obey, and this is evidently seen, felt and practised by all the great States this day of the World, so as it cannot be denied. For if we look but into France, we shall find that the States of Ga∣scony and Guyene,* which are farthest off from the Court, and were once strangers and gotten by force, from the English, do pay far less Tributes at this day to the French King than those that be of the Isle of France it self, and are properly French,* and in like manner the Britons, which came to that Crown by Marriage, and were old enemies, do pay much less yet than the Gascoyns, and in a manner do pay nothing at all, and the Normans do pay somewhat more than any of the two, for that they do lie somewhat nearer to Paris, and thereby are more in subjection to the Prince, though yet they pay less than the natural French-men.* The Candians also which is an Island apart, and standeth under the Venetians, do not pay the third part of the Impositions (as by my own in∣formation I learned, when I travelled Italy) that do the natural subjects of the Venetian state in Italy.

What shall I say of the Kingdoms and States of Naples, Sicily and Millain,* subject to the King of Spain, called the Alcavall• which is the tenth penny Page  162 of all that is bought and sold, nor are they subiect to the Inquisition of Spain, (at l•est Naples and Millain) nor to many other Duties, Tributes and Impositions which the natural Spaniard is subject unto; nor is there any Law or Edict made in Spain that holdeth in those Countries, except it be allowed, ratified and confirmed by those States themselves, nor may any of their old Priviledges be infringed, but by their own consents, and when the King requireth any ex∣traordinary Subsidies in Spain, they bear no part thereof. Whereupon these men do ask, what it hur∣teth these States, that they are strangers, or under Strangers, or what priviledge is it to the Spaniard at home, that he is only under his home-born King, if if he he receive less benefits by that than doth the Stranger.

*And is not the like also used by the State of Eng∣land towards Ireland, are not the Favours and In∣dulgences used towards the Civil Irish that live in peace much more than to the English themselves in England? For first, their Taxes and Payments be much less, the Laws of England bind them not, ex∣cept they be allowed and received by their own Par∣liament in Ireland. For matters of Religion they are pressed much less than home-born Subjects, al∣beit their Affections to the Roman Religion be known to be much more universal, than it is in Eng∣land. In all Criminal Affairs and punishing of De∣licts, the manner of proceeding against the Irish is much more remiss, mild and gentle, than with the Subjects of England, so as their being strangers seems rather a Priviledg, than an hindranc eunto them.

But in no other Countrey is this thing more evi∣dently to be considered,* than in the States of Flan∣ders and low Countries, which by Inheritance (as hath been said) came to be under foreign Govern∣ment but so much to their good and advancement (and that in a very few years) as scarce is credible, Page  163 except to him that understandeth their former state, when they were under their home-born Princes, and do compare it with that which after they came un∣to, under the house of Austria, united unto the Crown of Spain.

For before, for many hundred years, a man shall read nothing almost, in their Histories, but War, Se∣dition and Blood-shed among themselves; and this either, one state with another before they were uni∣ted together all under one Prince, or else with the Kingdom of France, of whom in those days they de∣pended, or else (and this most of all) against their own Princes, of whom some have been so fierce and cruel unto them, as they have shed infinit quantity of their Blood, and among others,* I read of their Count de Luys, that in one day he put to death five hun∣dred of them by sentence of Justice in Bruxel•es, and another day within the same year he caused about a thousand to be burned to death in a Church of the Town of Nevel, besides his infinite others whom in divers Battels and Skirmishes he slew, so as often∣times the Countrey lay almost desolate, through their domestical afflictions.

But now since the time that the States came to be under Philip the first Archduke of Austria,* and after King of Spain, and so remained under his Son Charles the Emperour, and his Nephew Philip the II. that now liveth, until the late Troubles and Rebellions, (which was about the space of fifty years that they so continued in Peace before their Rebellion) it is al∣most incredible how those States increased in wealth,* peace and dignity; so that as Guyc••rdine the Italian Historiographer noteth in his description of those Countries, the whole Wealth and Riches of the World seemed to flow thither, and I my self can re∣member to have seen such exceeding abundance in very ordinary men of this Countrey, both for their Diet, Apparel, Furniture of House, and the like, as Page  164 was wonderful, besides that for their Nobility they were all great Princes, for that every one had his Province or great Town in Government, which they ruled with that Pomp and Honour, as if they had been Absolute Lords themselves, by reason of the far distance of their Supream Prince, and so they were received with publick Honour of all Cities and Towns, and their Charges Born where∣soever they passed, as such High Estates wont to be.

*And albeit they had ever commonly a Stranger for Supream Governour among them under their King, which bare the name to be above them, yet did he indeed nothing but as they would have him; and this partly for that his time of Goverment be∣ing but short, he always attended principally to get the good wills of the people, and to hold them conten•ed, and thereby to be grateful to his King at his return home; and partly also, for that if he should attempt to do any thing against their Minds and liking, they made reply by their President and Chancellor, and other of their own Councellors, residing for the Flemish Nation in the Court of Spain (for this Nation hath always a particular Councel there about the King, as all other Foreign Nations also have, that are under him) and by this means they obtained lightly what they would, and brought the Governour to what they pleased; so as in effect they were absolute Kings in them∣selves, and wrought their Wills in every thing, and this is in that time while the Country was quiet.

*But now since this Revolt, which hath indured almost these four or five and twenty years, what hath succeeded; surely there hath not a quarter so many been punished, or put to Death in all these years by order of Justice of their King absent, as before I have shewed that there were in one day, by ther own Earls and Dukes, when they were Page  165 present, and that upon far less occasion and cause given, then are these; for if we take away the two Noblemen, Egmond and Horne, put to Death at the beginning of these Flem•sh Troubles by the Duke of Alva (for which some men say also that he had no thanks afterward by the King) no man of importance hath been since Executed; and the chiefest Towns that have been and are against the King in Holland and Zeeland, are suffered until this day, to Traffique freely into Spain it self, to wit, in the Kingdom of Aragon many Heads have been strucken off, and much injustice done; whereof then riseth this difference, no doubt for that the Flem∣mings are Strangers and far off, and the other near at Home and Natural-Born, so as this circumstance of being a Stranger, and dwelling far off doth them great pleasure, and giveth them priviledge above the Home-born Subjects.

The like I might shew for this matter of punish∣ment in the foresaid States of Italy;* where if a man do compare the number of them that were put to Death, pulled Down, or Afflicted by order of Justice, or otherwise at the the commandment of the Prince, in time of their own Home-born Kings, with that which hath been since, especially of the Nobility, you shall find one for twenty; and the reason of this is, for that their own Kings were Absolute, and had to give an account to no man of their doings, and for that they were men, and had their Passions and Emulations with the Nobi∣lity, and might put the same in Execution with∣out Account or Controlment, they pulled down and set up at their pleasure, and made oftentimes but a Jest of Noblemens Lives and Deaths: but now these that are Governours and Vice-roys for a Foreign Prince; first they have not so great Au∣thority or Commission, as to touch any such Prin∣cipal persons Lives, without giving Relation there∣of, Page  166 of,* first unto their King and Councel, and receive again particular order for the same; and then they knowing that after their three years Govern∣ment is ended, they must be private men again, and stay their fourty days as Subjects under the next new Governour, to give Reckoning of their doings against all that shall Accuse them (which in these Countries they call to make their resi∣dence,) they take heed what they do, and whom they offend, so as the condition of Nobility, is far different under such a strange Government, as this is termed, then under a Natural Prince of their own Country which oppresseth them at his plea∣sure.

*But now to draw near homeward, if we will examine and consider what hath passed in England in this point of Massacring our Nobility, by our Domestical Princes, it is a matter lamentable▪ for it may seem that they have served oftentimes for our Princes to make disport and play with their Heads. And to let pass all those, which in time of Wars, Rebellions and Commotions, have been cut off, which occasions may seem more justifyable: I do read also in our Chronicles, that a Sangue freddo, as the Italian saith, that is to say, in time of Peace, and by Execution of Justice, at the Princes appointment, these Noblemen following, and Knights by Name, were put to Death, with∣in the space of one five years, in King Henry the fourth his days. The Duke of Exeter, the Duke of Surry, the Archbishop of York, the Earls Salisbury, of Glocester, of Worcester and of Hun∣tington; the Earl Mowbray, Earl Marshal; the Barron of Kinderton, Sir Roger Clarington Bastard Son of Edward the Black Prince, Sir Thomas Blunt, Sir Bernard Rocas, Sir Richard Vernon. And again soon after under King Edward the fourth, in almost within as little space, the Dukes of Somorset and Page  167 of Exeter, the Earls of Devonshire, of Oxford, and of Keyns, the Lord Ross, the Lord Molyns, Sir Tho∣mas Tudingham, Sir Philip Wentworth, Sir Thomas Fyndam, and many others afterwards, (for this was but at the beginning of his Reign) which num∣ber of Nobility, if a man should have seen them alive together with their Trains, before they had been put down, he would have said they had been a very goodly company, and pityful that so many of our own Nobility should be brought by our own Princes to such Confusion.

But yet this matter may seem perhaps the less marvellous, and more excusable,* under those two Kings, for that Troubles and Contentions had passed a little before in the Realm about the Succession, and herupon so many of the Nobility might be cut off: But let us see then what ensued afterwards, when things were established, and all doubt of contention about the Succession taken away, as in King Henry VIII▪ the his days it was; and yet do I find Registred in our Chronicles these persons following, either made away, cut off, or put down, by the said King, to wit, two Queens, Ann and Catharine, three Cardinals put down and disgraced, Woolsey, Pool, and Fisher, whereof the last was Beheaded; soon after his Dignity given him in Rome, and the first was Arrested, the second Attainted of imagined Treasons: three Dukes put down, to wit, the Noble Dukes of Buckingham, Suffolk, and Norfolk; whereof the last lost his Lands, Dignities and Liberty only, the former two both Lands and Lives. A Marquess with two Earls Beheaded, Devonshire, Kyldare and Surrey; two Countesses Condemned to die, Devonshire and Salisbury, and the latter Executed: Lords many, as the Lord Darcy, the Lord Hussey, the Lord Mon∣tague, the Lord Leonard Gray, the Lord Dacers of the South, the Lord Cromwel, and six or seven Page  166 Abbots, Knights also in great number, as five in one day, with the Lords Hussey and Darcy, and five in another day, with the Earl of Kildare, whose Uncles they were; and besides them, Sir Thomas Moor, Sir Rice Griffith, Sir Edward Nevel, Sir John Nevel, Sir Nicholas Carew, Sir Adrian Fortescue, and divers other Knights of great Account; and then Gentlemen almost without end.

And all these within the space of 20 years of his Reign,* and in the time of peace; and if we look upon but four or five years together of the Reign of this mans Children, we shall see the like course continued, for we shall see put to death within the space of four years, all these following by Name, the Duke of Somerset, the Duke of Suffolk, the Duke of Northumberland, and the Lord Ad∣miral of England, Sir Miles Partridge, Sir Ralph Vane, Sir Michael Stanhope, Sir Thomas Arundel, Sir John Gates, Sir Thomas Palmer Knights, with divers other Gentlemen of their Retinue, and all these by Natural, Domestical and Home-born Princes; whereas I dare adventure the greatest Wager that I can make, that you shall not find so many put to death of the Nobility by any strange Prince, State, or Commonwealth Christian, in any Foreign Do∣minion that they possess, in many Ages together; and the reason thereof is evident, by that I said be∣fore, neither were it policy or wisdom, nor could the causes be so often, nor ordinarily given by the Nobility to a Prince that were absent from them to use such Severity; so as by this it may also ap∣pear, that to be under a Foreign Government, even in the worst kind thereof, that can be devised, which is to be as a Province or piece of another Kingdom, and to come under it by very Conquest it self, is not so dangerous a matter, as at the first shew it may seem, and much less to be under Foreign Government, by other sweeter means of Page  167 Succession, or Composition, as the present case of England seemeth to import, in respect of those fo∣reign Princes which do pretend to the Succession thereof.

And this is not only shewed and declared by the state and condition of Flanders,* before their tu∣mults; but in like manner it is seen by the present state of Britanny, Normandy, Aquitaine, Provence, and other Dukedoms and Countries in France, that were wont to have their own particular Princes, and now are much more commodiously under the Crown of France. The like is seen by the States of Naples, Millain, Sicily, Sardinia, and other parts and Countries of Italy, which were wont to be un∣der Kings and Princes of their own, and now are under the Crowns of Aragon and Castile, with infi∣nite odds of peace, rest, security and wealth, then they were before when they had domestical Prin∣ces, and so themselves do confess, I mean the wise and dispassionate among them; (for of the Vulgar in this case no account is to be made,) and if they should deny it, yet the thing speaketh it self, and the publick Histories of their Countries would con∣vince them, wherein it is to be read, what Phala∣ris, what Dionysius and other home•born Tyrants Sicily, (for example,) hath had and suffered, and with what infinite cruelty they and divers others of their own Governours have exercised upon them, as also what continual turmoils there were in the City of Naples and in all that Kingdom for many years together, after it self fell from the Go∣vernment, first of the Roman Empire, and then of the Grecian, until it came to the Crown of Aragon, I mean between their own domestical Kings, now of the Blood of Italians, now of the Normans,* now of the Hungarians, and now of the French, (for of all these Lines there have reigned among them) and the Realm was a perpetual prey to Souldiers, Page  [unnumbered]Page  170 and the very like may be said of Millain, after their fall from the Roman Empire, (under which they lived quiet and prosperously,) until they came again to be under the Crown of Spain, they passed infinite Tribulations first by the contention of their common People against their Nobility, and then by the Bloody falling out of their chief Families, the one against the other, to wit, the Furiani, Vis∣conti, Marcelli, Castilioni and Ssorzi, (which Family last of all prevailed,) he, I say, that shall remember this; and then behold the present state with the quiet peace, safety and riches wherein they now live, will now live, wi•l easily confess that they have changed for the better, though they be under Foreign Government: and thus much of this point.

*There remaineth to speak a word or two about the second part of the Question before proposed and included partly in this which already hath been treated, to wit, whether it be better to be un∣der a little or great King, which question though it may be decided in part by that which before hath been alledged, about being under a foreign Prince, yet more particularly to make the same plain, these men do say that the reasons be many and evident to prove that the subjection to a great and mighty Monarch is far better: First for that he is best able to defend and protect his Subjects: And secondly, for that he hath least need ordinarily to pill and pole them; for that a little King, be he never so mean, yet must he keep the State of a King, and his subjects must maintain the same; and if they be but few, the greater will the burthen be of every one in particular: And thirdly, for that a great and potent Prince hath more to bestow upon his Sub∣jects for reward of Vertue and Valour; than hath a poor; and seeing that every particular subject, born within his Princes Dominions, is capable of all the Prefermenes which Princes, State or King∣dom Page  171 do yield, if he be worthy of the same, it is a great Prerogative, (say these men,) to be born un∣der a potent Prince, that hath much to give, which they declare by this example following.

A man that is born in the City of Genoua or Ge∣neva (for both are Cities and States within them∣selves, (let him be of what ability or worthiness soever, yet can he hope for no more preferment, than that Commonwealth and State can give; and if there should be many worthy men born there at one time, then were this his condition worse, for then must he part also with other men, though there were not sufficient for himself, and the most he could aspire unto, if he were an Ecclesiastical man, were the greatest Benefice within that State; and on the other side, if he were a Temporal man, he could not hope for much, for that the State hath it not to bestow; but another that is born under a great Monarch, as is the King of France or Spain, in these our dayes, that hath so many great Bishop∣ricks; (for Examples sake,) and other Spiritual Li∣vings to bestow upon the Clergy, and so many high Governments and Employments both of War and Peace, to give unto Temporal men that can deserve the same; This man, (I say) hath a great Advan∣tage of the other, in respect of preferment at this day, but much more was it in old time, to be born under the Roman Empire, when it had the pre∣ferments of all the World to bestow; for that eve∣ry subject thereof was capable of all the said pre∣ferments, so far forth as he could make himself worthy, and deserve the same. For better expli∣cation of which point yet, I have thought good to cite in this place the words of a certain Learned Knight,* that in our dayes hath written the Lives of all the Roman Emperours, and in the Life of one of them, that was an excellent Governour, named Antonius Pius the said Knight hath this discourse ensuing.

Page  170*There was in this mans Governments (said he) great Contentment and Joy on all hands, great Peace and Quietness, and very great Justice, and truely it is a thing worthy in this place to be considered, what was the humane Power, and how infinite the Forces of the Roman Empire at this day, and how great was the Liberty, Quietness, Security, Wealth and Contentment of the Subjects that lived under that Government, when good Princes had the managing thereof; as was this Antoninus and his Son Aurelius, that followed him, and as were Adrian, Trajan and divers others. What a thing was it to see their Courts frequented free∣ly by all the Noble, Valiant and Learned men of the World, to see the union and friendly dealing of diffierent Nations together, when all served one Prince, so as a man might have gone over the whole World, or most and best parts thereof, with all security, and without all fear, all Nations and Countries being their Friends, Neighbours or Subjects; neither was there need at that time of any Pasports or safe Conducts: nor of so often change of Coyn, to travel, as now there is, neither yet were there new Laws every foot as now be found in different Countries, neither was there danger of Ene∣mies, or to be taken prisoners and captives, nor could any malefactor do a mischief in one Countrey and flee into another, thereby to be free from punishment, and he that was born in the very Orcades, or furthest part of Europe, was at home, though he were in Africa or Asia, and as free a Denizen as if he had been born there, Merchants also might pass at that day from Countrey to Countrey with their Merchandise, without particu∣lar Licences or fear of Forfeits; and finally the tem∣poral state of a Subject was wonderful happy at that time.

Thus far discourseth that learned Knight, and no doubt but that his discourse and consideration is founded on great Reason, and he that will leave at this day the many commodities of being under a Page  171 Great and Potent Prince, (if it lie in his own hands to chuse) for this only circumstance that he is not born in the same Countrey with him, is a man of small judgment and capacity in these mens opinion, and measureth matters of publick utility, with a false weight of fond affection.

And thus much may be said of the first way of being under Strangers and Foreign Government, which is that which vulgar men do most abhor and inveigh against, to wit, to be under a foreign Prince, that liveth absent and ruleth by his Go∣vernours.

But besides this,* there is another manner of be∣ing under a Foreign Prince, as when an Alien Prince cometh to dwell among us, and this by either of two ways, to wit, that either this Prince cometh without Forces, as did King Stephen and King Hen∣ry the II. that were French-men, as hath been said, and came to live and govern in England, but with∣out external Forces: and as King Philip of Spain came afterwards, when by Marriage of Queen Mary he became King of England: and as the last King Henry the III of France went into Polonia by the free Election and Invitation of that Nation, and as his Brother Monsieur Francis Duke of Alenson should have entred afterward to have been King of England, if the Marriage pretended between her Majesty and him had gone forward and taken ef∣fect, as many thought once that it should. This I say is one way, and another is, that this Prince do bring Forces with him, for his own assurance, and these either present, as the Danish Kings, Sweno, Canutus, Haraldus and Hardicanutus did, and as after them the Norman Princes also used, I mean not only William the Conquerour himself, but also his two Sons William Rufus and Henry the I who either by help of the Normans, already in England, or by others brought in by them afterwards, wrought Page  172 their will▪ or else that this Prince so entring have Foreign Forces, so at hand, as he may call and use them when he will, for that they have no Sea to pass, which is the case of the King of Scots, and of both these wayes these men do give their sen∣tence distinctly.

*For as concerning the former way, when a Fo∣reign Prince entreth without any Forces at all, and with intention to live among us, they hold, that there is no danger, nor yet any inconvenience can justly be feared: for that in this case he subjecteth himself rather to the Realm and Nation, than they to him, and if he live and marry in England, both himself and his Children will become English in a little space. And for his own assurance he must be inforced to favour and cherish and make much of the English Nation, and be liberal, gentle and friendly to all, for gaining their good wills and friendship. And in one very great and important point his condition is different,* and better for the English than any English Kings can be, which is, that he entreth with indifferent mind towards all men, hath no kindred or alliance within the Land, to whom he is bound, nor enemy against whom he may be inticed to use cruelty, so as only merit or demerit of each man, must move him to favour or disfavour, which is a great Foundation (say these men) of good and equal Government.

*Again they say, that in respect of the State pre∣sent of England, and as now it standeth, and for the publick good not only of the common Subjects, but also of the Nobility, and especially and above others, of the English Competitors and Pretenders that cannot all speed, no way were so commodi∣ous, as this to avoid bloodshed, to wit, that some external Prince of this time should be admitted up∣on such Compositions and Agreements, as both the Realm should remain with her ancient Liberties, Page  173 and perhaps much more than now it enjoyeth, (for such Princes commonly and upon such occasions of Preferment would yield to much more in those Cases than a home-born Prince would,) and the other Pretenders at home also, should remain with more security than they can well hope to do under any English Competitor, if he come to the Crown, who shall be continually egged on by his own kin∣dred, and by the aversion, emulation and hatred, that he has taken already by contention against the other opposite Houses, to pull them down, and to make them away, and so we have seen it by con∣tinual Examples, for many years, though no occa∣sion, (say these men,) hath ever been offered to su∣spect the same so much as now, if any one of the home English Bloud be preferred before the rest, and this is so much as they say to this second kind of being under Foreign Princes. To the third,* they confess, that it standeth subject to much danger and inconvenience, to admit a foreign Prince, to live among us with Forces, either present or so near, as that without resistance he may call them when he listeth, and of this he needeth no more proof, (say these men,) than the Examples before alledged of the Danes and Normans, and the Mi∣sery and Calamity which for many years the Eng∣lish passed under them, and furthermore the reason hereof is evident, say these men; for first in this third kind of admitting a stranger King we are de∣prived by his dwelling amongst us▪ of those Utilities before mentioned, which Ireland, Flanders, Britany, Naples, and other States enjoy by living far off from their Princes, which Commodities are, much more Liberty and Freedom, less Payments, less Punishments, more Employments of the Nobility and others in Government, and the like. And se∣condly, by his coming Armed unto us, we cannot expect those Commodities which before I touched Page  174 in the second kind of Foreign Government, but ra∣ther all the Incommodities and Inconveniences that are to be found either in domestical or foreign Governments, (all I say) do fall upon this third manner of admitting a Stranger, as easily shall be seen.

For first of all, the greatest Incommodities that can be feared of a domestical Prince, are pride, cruelty, partiality, pursuing of Factions, and par∣ticular hatred,* extraordinary advancing of his own kindred, pressing, pinching, and over-rigorous pu∣nishing of his People without fear, for that he is ever sure of his party to stand with him within the Realm, and so hath the less respect to others, and for that all these inconveniences and other such like, do grow for the most part by the Princes con∣tinual presence among his Subjects, they are inci∣dent also to this other, though he be a stranger, for that he is also to be present, and to live among us, and so much the more easily he may fall into them than a domestick Prince, for that he shall have both external counsil of a People that hateth us, to prick him forward in the same, which two motives every domestical Prince hath not.

*Again they say, that the worst and greatest In∣commodities of a foreign Government, that may be feared, are tyranny and bringing into servitude the People over whom they govern, and filling of the Realm with Strangers, and dividing to them the Dignities, Riches and Preferments of the same, all which they say are incident also by all probabi∣lity to this third-kind of foreign Government, where the Prince Stranger liveth present and hath Forces at hand to work his will, and this is the case say they, of the King of Scots, who only of any foreign Pretender seemeth may justly be feared, for these and other reasons alledged before, when we talked of his pretence to the Crown.

Page  175To conclude then, these men are of opinion, that of all these three manners of being under Strangers▪ or admitting foreign Government, this third kind peculiar as it were to the King of Scots Case, is to be only feared, and none else, for as for the second they say that it is not only not to be feared, or ab∣horred, but rather much to be desired, for that of all other sorts it hath the least inconveniences,* and most Commoditi•s; for which causes we read and see, that where Kings go by Election, commonly they take Strangers, as the Romans and Lacedomo∣nians did often at the beginning, and after the be∣ginning of the Roman Monarchy their foreign born Emperours, were the best and most famous of all the rest, as Trajan and Adrian that were Spaniards, Septimius, Severus▪ born in Africa, •onstantine the Great Natural of England, and the like, and the very worst that ever they had, as Caligula, Nero▪ Heliogabolus, Commodus and such other like Plagues of the Weal publick, were Romans, and in our days and within a few years we have seen that the Po∣lonians have chosen three Kings Strangers, one af∣ter another, the First Stephen Battorius Prince of Transilvania, the Second Henry of France, and last of all the Prince of Swecia that yet liveth, and the State of Venetians by way of good Policy have made it for a perpetual Law, that when they have War to make, and must needs chuse a General Captain, and commit their Forces into his Hands, he must be a stranger, to wit, some Prince of Italy, that is out of their own States, hereby to avoid partiality, and to have him the more indifferent, and equal to them all, which yet so many prudent men would never agree upon, if there were not great reason of Commodities therein, so as this point is concluded, that such as speak against this second kind of having a foreign Prince, speak of passion, or inconsideration, or lack of experience in matters of State and Commonwealths.

Page  176As for the first manner of being under foreign Government, as a Member or Province of another bigger Kingdom, and to be governed by a Depu∣ty, Viceroy or strange Governour, as Ireland, Flan∣d•rs, Naples, and other States before-mentioned be, with certain and stable Conditions of Liberties and Immunities, and by a form of Government agreed upon on both sides, these men do most con∣fess also that there may be Arguments, Reasons, and Probabilities alledged on both sides, and for both parties; but yet that all things considered and the inconveniences, hurts and dangers before rehear∣sed, that Subjects do suffer also oftentimes at the hands of their own natural Prince, these men are of opinion, for the causes already declared, that the Profits are more and far greater than the da∣mages or dangers of this kind of foreign Govern∣ment are, and so they do answer to all the Reasons and Arguments alledged in the beginning of this Chapter, against foreign Government,* that either they are to be understood and verified only of the third kind of foreign Government before-decla∣red, (which these men do confess to be dangerous) or else they are founded for the most part in the er∣rour and prejudice only of the vulgar sort of men, who being once stirred up by the name of Stranger, do consider no further what reason or not reason there is in the matter, and this say these men, ought to move these men little, for as the common people did rise in tumult against the French, (for example,) in Sicilia, and against the Danes in England, so upon other occasions would they do also against their own Countreymen, and oftentimes have so done, both in England and other where, when they have been offended, or when seditious Heads have offe∣red themselves to lead them to like Tumults, so that of this they say little argument can be made.

Page  177The like in effect they do answer to the Ex∣amples before alledged of the Grecian Philosophers and Orators,* that were so earnest against Strangers. And First to Aristotle they say, that in his Politicks he never handled expressly this our Question, and consequently weighed not the Rea∣sons on both sides, and so left it neither decided, nor impugned, and he that was Master to Alexander, that had so many foreign Countries under him, could not well condemn the same:* and as for De∣mosthenes no marvel though he were so earnest against King Philip of Macedonia his entry upon the Cities of Greece, both for that he was well fed on the one side, by the King of Asia, (as all Authors do affirm,) to the end he should set Athens and other Grecian Cities against King Philip, as also for that his own Commonwealth of Athens was go∣verned by popular Government, wherein himself held still the greatest sway by force of his Tongue with the People, and if any King or Monarch of what Nation soever should have come to command over them, (as Philip's Son, King Alexander the Great, did soon after,) Demosthenes should have had less authority, than he had, for that presently he was banished, and so continued all the time that Alexander lived. But if we do consider how this State of the Athenians passed afterward under the great Monarchy of Alexander and other his fol∣lowers, in respect that it did before, when it lived in liberty, and under their own Government only, he shall find their State much more quiet, prosperous and happy under the Commandment of a Stran∣gers, than under their own, by whom they were continually tossed & turmoiled with battels, emula∣tions and seditions,* and oftentimes tyrannized by their own People as the Bloody Contentions of their Captains Aristides, Themistocles, Alcibiades, Pericles, Nicias and others do declare, and as it is Page  178 evident among other things by their wicked Law of Ostracismus,* which was to banish for ten years whosoever were eminent, or of more wisdom, wealth, valo•r, learning or authority among than the rest, albeit he had committed no crime or fault at all. And finally their having of thirty most horrible and bloudy Tyrants at one time in their City of Athens, instead of one Governour, doth evidently declare the same, (say these men,) and do make manifest how vain and foolish an imagina∣tion it was, that vexed them how to avoid the Go∣vernment of Strangers, seeing that no Strange Go∣vernour in the World would ever have used them as they used themselves, or so afflict them, as they afflicted themselves.

*To the Objection out of Deuteronomy, where God appointeth the Jews to chuse a King only of their own Nation, these men do answer, that this was at that time, when no Nation besides the Jews had true Religion among them, which point of Reli∣gion the Civilian hath well declared before, in his last discourse, to be the chiefest and highest thing that is to be respected, in the admission of any Ma∣gistrate, for that it concerneth the true and highest End of a Commonwealth and of all humane So∣ciety, and for that the Gentiles had not this Orna∣ment of true Religion, but were all destitute gene∣rally thereof, the Jews were forbidden not only to chuse a King of the Gentiles, which might pervert and corrupt them, but also to company, converse, or eat and drink with them, and this was then: but yet afterward when Christ himself came into the World, and opened his Church both to Jew and Gentile, he took away this restraint, so as now all Christian Nations are alike, for so much as apper∣taineth unto Government. And consequently to a good and wise Christian man, void of passion and fond affection, it little importeth, (as often before Page  179 hath been said,) of what Countrey, Nation or Li∣neage his Governour be, so he Govern well, and have the parts before required of Piety, Religion, Justice, Manhood and other the like, requisite to his Dignity, Degree and Charge, by which parts and vertues only his subjects are to receive benefits, and not by his Countrey, Generation, Lineage or Kind∣red; and this is so much as I have to say at this time about this Affair.