An account of the growth of popery and arbitrary government in England more particularly, from the long prorogation of November, 1675, ending the 15th of February, 1676, till the last meeting of Parliament, the 16th of July, 1677.

Friday May 25th. 1677

Sir John Trevor reported from the said Committee the Addresse, as 'twas drawn by them, which was read.

Whereupon it was moved to agree with the Committee, but before it was agreed to, there was a debate and division of the House.

It was observed and objected that there was but one re∣son given herein for declining the granting money and that is the Unpresidentednesse, and as to one of the Instances to this purpose mentioned, Viz. the Kings first Dutch War, it was said to be mistaken for that the 2500000 l. was voted be∣fore the War declared.

But it was answred, that if the Declaration was not before the grant of the money (which Quaere) yet 'twas certain that the War it self, and great Hostilites were before the money, and some said there might be other reasons Assigned against giving money before the Alliances, but they rather desired to spare them, onely in general said, twas not re∣sonable to grant money before there was a Change (they 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not say of Counsellors but of Counsells) and an har∣•…•… •…•…dertaking these Alliances would be the best demon∣stration of that Change. For the swerving from this Interest and part, was the step by which we went awry, and the re∣turning thereto would restore us to our right place and way.

And a Gentleman produced and read the Kings Speech made Monday the 10th. of February 1667. wherein he speak chiefly of the League which afterwards when the Svvede came into it, was called the Tripple League.

My Lords and Gentlemen,

I Am glad to see you hear again to tell you what I have done in this Intervall, which I am consident you will be pleased with, since it is so much to the Honour and security of the Nation. I have made a League Offensive and Defensive with the States of the United Provinces, and likewise a League for an efficacious mediation of Peace between the two Crowns, into which League that of Svve∣den by its Ambassador hath offered to enter as a principal, I did not at our last Meeting move you for any Aid,

though I lye under great Debts contracted by the last War but now the posture of our Neighbours abroad, and the consequence of this new Alliance will oblige me for our se∣curity to set out a considerable fleet to Sea this Summer, and besides I must build more great Ships, and tis as ne∣cessary that I do something in order to the fortifying some of our Ports. I have begun my self in order to these ends, but if I have not your speedy assistance, I shall not be able to go thorow with it, wherefore I do earnestly desire you to take it into your speedy consideration, &c.

Which shews the proper course and practice, That Kings first communicate their Alliances made, before they demand Supplies upon the account of them.

So the Exception was let fall.

But the grand Objection mannaged against it, was upon the main point of the Address, wherein they desired his Ma∣jesty to make a League Offensive and Defensive with the Dutch, and such other Alliances with the rest as he should think sit.

Those who were against this particular (or particularize∣ing) in the Address, spoke to this effect.

This is an Invasion upon his Majesties Prerogative of making Peace, War and Leagues, and it is the worse for the Distinction that is used; in respect of the Dutch and the rest; by which you giving him express directions as to the Dutch, and referring to his discretion as to the others, it looks and gives an Umbrage as if what he was to do was by your leave.

The Antient Land-mark, the Boundaries between King and People must not be removed; This power is one of the few things reserved entirely to the Crown. Parliaments are summoned to treat de Arduis, but He, de quibusdam Arduis, this is unpresidented.

The Marriages of the Royal Family is such a peculiar thing reserved to the King, and the matter of the Lady Arrabella is an Instance. Queen Elizabeth resented it high, that the Parliament should propound her marrying, and she said that however it is well they did not name the person, if they had named the person, it had been intolerable, now here you name the person whom you would have the King Ally.

If you may go so far, you may come to draw a Treaty, and propose to the King to sign it, By this you would put a great Indecorum upon the King, he is now concerned as a Mediator at Nimmegen, and it would be an indecent thing for him at the same time to declare himself a party. It is be∣lieved the House of Austria (though they sent full powers to Nimmegen, for the purpose, yet) never intended to con∣clude a Peace. But it was an absurd thing for them to de∣clare so in Publick; There must be publick decorum.

This is the way for the King to have the worse bargain with the Confederates, for they observing how he is im∣portuned, and as it were driven to make these Alliances, will slacken and lessen those advantagious offers, which other wise they would be forced to make.

And again and again, they said his Majesty did agree with this House in the End, and they did not doubt but he would prosecute it by the same means as was desired. But his Pre∣rogative was not to be incroacht upon. This manner of pro∣ceeding would never obtain with the King, nay, it would make the Address miscarry with the King.

On the other Side, several spoke to this effect.

We ought to consider, we are upon the Question of agreeing an Address drawn by our Committee, by our Order.

If they have not in matter and manner corresponded with our direction or intention, we have cause to disagree. But here the Exception taken, and cause pressed why we should not agree with them is, because they have observed the very

words and substance of our Order, which exactly justifieth this Draught.

This passed on Wednesday, upon a full Debate, in a very full House, two only contradicting, but not one speaking or thinking the Kings Prerogative was toucht: and there∣fore its strange it should be made the great Objection and Question of this day.

But the Prerogative is not at all intrenc•…•…d upon, we do not, nor do pretend to Treat or make Alliances, we only offer our advice about them, and leave it with the King he may do as he pleaseth, either make or not make them. It is no more than other persons may do to the King, or doubtless the Privy Council may Advise him in this particular, and why not his Great Council? This rate of discourse would make the Kings Prerogative consist meerly in not being advised by his Parliament (of all People.)

There are manifold Presidents of such Advices: Leagues have been made by Advice of Parliament, and have been ratified in Parliament: In Edvv. 3. R•…•…ch. 2. and especially in Henry the Fifths time, and particularly with 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Emperour and king of the Romans, and Henry the fifth was a Magnanimous Prince and not to be •…•…mposed upon.

18. Jac. The Parliament Advised the King about making and mannaging a War, Rushvv. Coll. 36, 41, 42, 45, 46. And we may well remember our own advising the first Dutch War; and making Leagues is less than War.

But if there was no President in this particular Case, it was no Objection; for matter of Advice is not to be circums•…•…ri∣bed by President. If there be a 〈◊〉〈◊〉 case that a Prince should joyn in a War, together with another Prince, when that Prince was too potent before and that when this was discerned, and a Peace made, yet Succors should continual∣ly go out of the first Princes Dominions to the service of the other Prince (and that notwithstanding several Addresses and advices to the contrary.

Tis true (as Objected) that the Commons have sometimes declined advising in the matter of War, &c. proposed to them. But that shews not their want of right to meddle therewith, but rather the contrary. The very truth is, it has been the desire and endeavour of kings in all Ages, to engage their Parliaments in advising War, &c. That so they might be obliged to supply the King to the utmost for and through it, but they out of a prudent caution have some times waved the matter, lest they should engage further or deeper than they were aware or willing.

Since his Majesty is treating as Mediator at Nimmegen, about the general Peace, it is a great reason why he should specifi•…•… the Alliances desired as we have done, that we might make it known, we are far from desiring such Alliances as might be made by and with a general Peace; but on the con∣trary coveting such as might prevent and secure us against that dangerous and formidable Peace.

Doubtless the Confederates will offer honourable and worthy Terms; Their necessity is too great to boggle or take advantages, nor will they think this League the less worth because we advise it, but rather value it the more, be∣cause it is done unanimously by the King with the Advise and applause of his People in Parliament.

We cannot suppose that our proceeding thus to his Ma∣jesty will pejudice our Address or en∣danger its miscarriage since it is for his * 2.1 Majesties advantage, in that it obliges us to supply him to all degrees through this Affaire, and the more particular it is, the more still for the Kings advantage, for if it had been more general, and the King thereupon had made Alliances, whatever they were, men might have thought and said they were not the Alliances intended, and it might be used as an excuse or reason for their not giving money to supply his Majesty here∣after,

but this as it is now, doth most expresly, strictly and particularly bind us up.

We reflect that a great deal of time (and precious time) has been spent since and in our Addresse on this Subject, and finding no effectual fruit, especially of our last Addresse, we have cause to apprehend we are not clearly understood in what we mean. Now it is the ordinary way of pursuing discourse in such Case, and it is Proper and naturall for us to speak (out) more explicitely and particularly, and tell 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Majesty, That what we have meant is a League offensive and defensive, And to perswad us again to Addresse on, in more general Terms, as before, is to perswade us, that as we have done nothing this ten weeks, so we should do no∣thing still.

And said his Majesty in his late Message and last Speech, has been pleased to demand 600000 l. for answering the purpose of our Addresses, and assures us that the money shall not be imployed to other uses than we would have it imploy∣ed, it is most seasonable for us to declare plainly the use and purpose we intend, that so it may be concerted and clearly understood of all hands, and therefore it is well done to mention to his Majesty these express Alliances, we thinking no other Alliances, worth the said Sum, and we withal pro∣mising and undertaking that his Majesty shall have this and and more for these ends.

Nor have we any cause to apprehend that his Majesty will take amisse our advising Leagues in this manner. We have presented more than one Addresse for Alliances against the growth and power of the French King, and his Majesty has received, admitted and answered them without any exception, and if we may Addresse for Alliances against a particular Prince or state, Why not for Alliances with a par∣ticular Prince or state? It cannot be lesse regular or Parli∣amentary then the former.

And moreover (though we know that punctuall presi∣dents

are on our side, besides our Commissions by our Writts. to treat de arduis, & urgentibus Regem, Statum, & Defensionem Reg•…•…, & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Anglicanae, concernentibus. And besides the Kings General intimations in his Printed Speech, yet) if it •…•…e said to be a decent and proper thing to have his Majestys 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and consent, before we proceed on such a matter, in such a manner, as we now do, we say, that that in effect is with us too; for consider all our former Addresses, and his Majestyes Answers, and Messages thereupon, and it will appear that his Majesty has engaged and encouraged us to upon this Subject; and that which he expects and would have, is not to limit or check our advise, but to open and en∣•…•… our 〈◊〉〈◊〉. His Majesty appears content to be through∣ly advised, provided he be proportionably furnished and en∣abled with money, which we being now ready to do, we clearly and conclusively present him our advice, for the ap∣plication of it. To prevent those mistakes and distrusts vvhich his Majesty sayes he findes some are so ready to make, as if he had called us together only to get money from us, for other uses then vve vvould have it imployed.

And truly the advising these Allyances, together with as∣suring his Majesty thereupon to assist and supply him pre∣sently, and plentifully to prosecute the same, is our only way of complying and corresponding with his last speech: For those Leagues followed and supported by these Sup∣plyes are the only means and methodes to put his Majestie in the best condition, both to defend his Subjects, and offend his Enemies: and so there will be no sault in his Majesty nor Us, but His and Our security vvill sufficiently provide for.

Besides it will be worse, it will be a very bad thing indeed not to make the Addresse for this particular League, now, since we have resolved it already. Our intention being to have the Dutch, &c. comforted, encouraged and assured, we did order this on Wednesday, and there is publick notice taken of it abroad, and beyond Sea. If we should now up∣upon

solemn debate set the same aside, it would beget a great doubt, discomfort, and discouragment to them; It is one thing never to have ordered it; another, to retract it.

Also it was said, that this was necessary, but was not all that was necessary, for suppose (which was not credible) that France should be prevailed with to deliver up all Lorraine, Flanders, Alsatia, and other Conquered places; Are we safe? No, He has too many hands, too much Money, and this money is in great measure (a Million Sterling yearly at least) supplyed him from hence. We must depress him by force as far as may be, but further we must have Leagues and Laws to impoverish him, We must destroy the French Trade. This would quiet and secure us, this would make our Lands rise, and this would enable us to set the king at ease.

After this long debate the House came to the Question, Whether this particular of a League Offensive and Defensive vvith the Dutch should be left out of the Address, upon which Question, the House divided,

Yeas 142, Noes 182.

So that it was carried by Forty that it should stand.

Then the main Question was put for agreeing, with their Committee, this Address: which passed in the Affirmative without Division of the House.

Then it was Ordered, That those Members of the House who were of his Majestys Privy Counsel, should move his Majesty to know his pleasure, when the House might wait upon him with their Address.

Mr. Povvle reported from the Committee, Amendments to the Bill for Recalling his Majestys Subjects out of the French Kings Service, which were Read and Agreed to by the House and the Bill with the Amendments Ordered to be Ingrossed.

And then the House Adjourned to the morrow.

Notes

• * 2.1

  Rush Coll. 171. 172, 177, 178.