The true non-conformist in answere to the modest and free conference betwixt a conformist and a non-conformist about the present distempers of Scotland / by a lover of truth ...

The Second DIALOGUE Answered. (Book 2)

YOu begin with a question, What great goodnesse it was which so commended our Partie? and having made your N. C. make a pitifull simple vaunt, that you may out-vaunt him, you proceed to accuse and censure, as you list. Sir if we dared to make our selves of the number, or compare our selves with them that commend themselves, we want not mat∣ter wherein we might indulge a little to the foolish∣nesse of boasting; but seeing that he whom the Lord commendeth, and not he who commendeth himself is approved, we will not boast of things appertaining to our selves; but endeavour that all our Glorying may be in the Lord. I have already told you, how God blessed us with his Ministery, and that Minis∣tery

with Power and Presence: It was he who gave the word, and great was the company of these that Published it; it was he who clothed his Priests with Salvation, and made his people to shout for joy: It was he who in the more special times and shinings of his love, made the Graces of his People to flow, and Souls were ravished with these discoveries: And if not only in the Publick Assemblies Gods fear was Great, but Families also did seek him apart; If the vulgar whom you undervaluingly so name, did great∣ly delight in the Law of the Lord, and the Sabbath was called a delight, the holy of the Lord honoura∣ble, we cannot but account these great matters, and the very paths and Methods which do most assuredly lead to the great hights of Christianity; Yea surely these Gospel Ordinances do lead unto the living God, and to Jesus the Mediatour of the New Cove∣nant, and unto Communion with him, and the Par∣ticipation of all Graces.

I know there is a shorter way, which too many take, who forming unto themselves faire Ideas, and words of Self-denyal, resignation, abstraction of minde, and the like, do entirely and pleasantly rest in the phan∣sie, and talk of these things, and as much of a specious outward converse as may in some sort salve their re∣putation, from these many forfeitures, which by the sinfull accommodations of their love of ease, they manifestly incurre: and these men commonly in their self-elevation, do not only slight the true Ordinances, and from the infirmities of ••raile men intrusted there∣with, do take advantage to mock; but license them∣selves unto an absolute compliance with every mode and dress, in Church-Government and worship, which humane policie, or Sathans Malice please to invent, nothing regarding how much thereby they

may make themselves partakers of the Perjury, Bloud and Violence, which promove, and the Profanity, that followeth the courses that they approve; but as they prudently provide for their own advantage and credite, by the abused pretext of an illimited respect to Authoritie, so they easily quiet all the reluctan∣cies of their inward Light, with any verball, slender, and inoffensive dissent. This is the New convenient contrivance of Religion, which indeed desires to be admired, for its pretended Mortifications, high at∣tainments, and peaceful enjoyments; but in effect, doth only recommend it self, by a luke-warme and quiet indifferencie in the Matters of God, a flattering and safe deference to Authority, and a sinfull and sweet veneration of outward peace, Whether your dis∣course and practice do ••avour or not of this way, I do not judge: I hope the serious seekers of God will still see and ask for the Old Paths, and do know that it is the Good way, wherein neither by a Pharisaick show of external devotion, not yet by vain and No∣tionall pretendings, but by humble and sincere wait∣ing upon God, in the means of his own appointment, they have really attained to these graces in the names whereof you boast, and so do finde rest to their Souls: And certainly if to such the present sad alteration (which, for the former light, power and frequen∣cie, observed in the Assemblies of the Lords People, hath covered his house with darkeness, death and de∣solation) doth minister suitable reflections, it can be no matter of wonder: When David remembred these things, and did consider the like changes, he poured out his soul in him, because he had gone with the multitude, and went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise: for this Ieremiahs heart di••d faint, for these things were his eyes dimme

because of the Mountain of Zion which was desolate, the foxes walking upon it: O what want had they of you for a comforter, who could have carried them farre above these external shaddows, and taught them Resignations and abstractions, in such a hight, that nei∣ther the corruption, nor the removing of Gods Or∣dinances, should have overclouded their Easefull Serenety?

But you insinuat, that N. C. do overprize Ordi∣nances, and undervalue Moralitie. I have already told you, that this is but a calumny, and that an holy and pure conversation, is the greatest and best part of Religion, is not by us in the lest questioned; with∣out the endeavour of holinesse; the other parts may possibly in Hypocrisie be pretended, but cannot in∣deed have any reality, only remember that Christ Je∣sus who is our all, is also our Sanctification, and let your Morality be indeed Christianity.

In the next place, you fall upon Particulars and alleage, That our Discipline was wholly different from the rules of the Gospell, and far short of that of the Ancient Bishops; This you instance in our Kirk Ses∣sions, which you say were like Birlaw Courts. I will not examine your expressions, but your reasons. You tell us first that the Church should only Medle with Sins as they are scandals, and not as they are injuries; whereas our Sessions cognosced upon wrongs which belonged to the Magistrat. But pray Sir, May not the same Offence be both as a wrong cognoscible by the Magistrat, for the reparation of the Plaintiffe, and punishment of the Delinquent, and as a scandal appertain to Church censure, for the reproofe and amendment of the Of∣fender, reconciling of the offended, and instruction of all? Certainly it cannot be denied: Now seeing our Sessions did only medle with Sinnes, under the

second formality, what doth your challenge amount to? This matter is to me so plain, that I incline to think, that the too Narrow acceptation of Scandal, for the offence of one Brother against another, with∣out any external injury, must be the only ground of your scruple; but as all injurie is attended with a very sensible Scandal, and every open sin hath also a Ge∣neral harding Scandal in it, for which it is to be re∣buked before all, that others also may fear, so its necessarily previous traill, cannot in reason be separat∣ed from its commanded rebuke. But your next ob∣jection carping at the dilations made to these Courts, because not preceeded by private Admonition made by the partie offended, shews more plainly your mistake, in as much as the Gospel order of Admoni∣tion can only have place in private offences, in the which case it was also by us observed. But to re∣quire the like Method in Publick offences, is mani∣festly to exempt from their censure all open sins, which being equally offensive unto all, render this proce∣dure wholly improper. 3. You object That our Church Sessions did exact Fines: but if you consider, that these Fines which you mention are particularly imposed and determined by Statute, and thereby ap∣pointed to be applyed to pious uses: And therefore the demanding and uplifting thereof only, aswell for the more summare and effectual restraint of sin, as for the end whereto they are d••stined, in use to be exercised by Kirk Sessions, or rather by their Officers and Bedels in deficiency of the Magistrate, who should have been appointed in every Paroche for that effect, this your scruple must quickly cease: but if you still think that notwithstanding both the manner and conveniencie of this practise, the ••amine is unsuit∣able to a Church Iudicatorie, do ye not strain at a

G••at, and swallow a Camel: nay a monstruous one Viz your Spiritual Lords in the highest temporall Courts where both civil and capital punishments are irrogated and inflicted. 4. You say that we forced people to stoup to our Discipline by threatning them with the Temporall sword. Sir, this is a great untruth, we never owned nor exercised High Commissions, And if obstinat transgressours were then, and still be, pu∣nishable by the Laws of the Land, wherefore seek you to make this our burthen? 5. You say that the the time of our pennance was short; the ancient Bishops did separat offenders as many years, as we did weeks. Just now you accused us of rigour, and here you com∣plean of our lenity, And not remembring that the Ancient Bishops, did not more exceed us in strictness of Discipline, then we do exceed the Modern, You are not ashamed to make your own sloth the Charge of our Mediocrity. However, the lawfull, though various, regulations of Prudence (whereof according to the diversity of times and circumstances, things undetermined by Scripture are acknowledged to be capable) may sufficiently reconcile any apparent dis∣crepancie in our practise, from that of the Ancients, 6. You say, we used Discipline to put a temporal shame upon Offenders. Again we are too Rigid: but where∣fore may not Discipline be used to shame Offenders, as well as the disobedient are commanded to be not∣ed and separated from, that they may be asham∣ed? 2. Thes. 3. 14. And the Incestuous person is ordained to be delivered to Sathan for the destruction of the flesh, 1 Cor. 5. 5. As for your Phansie, that Penitents are more Gazed at, as you phrase it, upon the high place you mention, then at the Church doore, we are not of your Opinion, and the Church doore was ever thought a place of more obvious observance,

and severe pennance, 7 You say we wretchedly abused Discipline by subjecting people to Censure for trifling mat∣ters; and that Ministers were more Zealous against oppo∣sition to their courses, then against opposition to the Ever∣lasting Gospel. But Sir as these trifling matters, which I suspect you hint at, were no lesse then the whole im∣port of the present differences; so, whether the op∣position you make so light of, hath not in the event proven a most pernicious opposition to the Everlast∣ing Gospel let any serious Soul judge?

This vindication, whereunto ye have engaged me for our Kirk sessions, obliges me to add in their be∣half, that although these Courts be very low, and plain in themselves; yet hath their excellent use, for the suppressing of all ungodlinesse, been alwayes very observable. I need not go back to former times, nor adduce, as I may, even, K. Iames his expresse Testi∣monie; to represent the notable and effectual influence of their right exercise; the present increase of Propha∣nity, through the ceasing of this remedy, and the most ordinary jeer of dissolute Persons, taxing one another for their exorbitancies, with this sco••••ing regrate, Oh for a strick Kirk! are too obvious confirmations: And truely, as, I have o••ten marveiled to see a thing so mean in appearance, so much the eye sore and scorne of Proud licentious Persons; So I doubt not but this consideration alone; by pointing out the reason, may abundantly satisfy all serious scruplers.

From your dissatisfaction with our Kirk Sessions you go to taxe our Ministers their Libertie and Manner of reproving sin. And as to the first, you do so invidiously exaggerat their dealing in order to the late King, and him who now Reigneth, that I cannot dissemble my surprizal, at your so excessive and abusive Railing on the Ministers of Christ, and some whereof you your

self say, within two leaves, are very good men, fear∣ing God, but all are here reproached without distinc∣tion, as Unnatural Hams, Incendiaries, open Lyars, inhumane, unchristian and malitious Persecutors of the memory of a pious dead Prince and that with the hight of insolencie and barbaritie: Deliver my Soul o Lord from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue. Sir I pretend not to your Privilege to scold in a meeke spirit, and to lie walking in the Spirit and falshood? But as I cannot but commend your wisdome, in tristing the vent of your rage and malice against the Lords Ministers, to such a subject, not more advantageous against a retri∣bution, then apt to point the keen arrows of your spite, with a most mortal odium; so were it not for the reall and high respect, that I bear to the Person, and many excellent qualities of our deceased Prince; and the dutie I owe the now King, nothing else could refuge you from the full returnes of a just resentment. Passing therefore the many horrid Blasphemies, Lies and Reproaches, wherewith your Clergie during these unhappie wars did not cease continually to proscind the Cause and People of God, more precious to him then all the Monarchs on Earth, and did most instantly labour to render both detestably hateful unto the Prince, until they brought all to ruine: I shall in a few sober words, vindicat the Lords servants from all these umbrages•• and appearances, whereby you endeavour to set off your reproach. That the late King by evil Counsel, specially that of unconscionable and ungrate Prelats, wickedly abusing, for their own ends, a Conscientious Prince unto a fatal obstinacie, was precipitat into many grosse errours of Govern∣ment, such as an excessive indulgence to Papists, ille∣g••ll and violent exactions, many unusuall and high at∣tempts against fundamental Laws and Liberties, a

strange connivance at the Irish Rebellion, and at length, a bloudy and pertinacious war against his Parliaments, his greatest and best friends and Counsellours; it was not the invention of evil affected men or Ministers, as you alleage, but the sad evidence of plain deeds, and the unanimous verdict of these most capable and pro∣per to discern. Now if in this state of things, the Lords Ministers, favouring his righteous Cause, did endeavour, by a true representation, both to avert the People from, and animat them against evil cour∣ses, destructive to Religion and Right; wherein are they to be reprehended? You say they charged the King with all; But know you not that as whatever passed upon the Kings side, did beare the impresse of his Name and Authority, so they did continually charge the guilt and wickednesse of all, mostly upon bad Counsel, praying the Lord uncessantly, with much tendernesse to the Kings Person, that the Wic∣ked might be removed from about the Throne, that so it might have been established. And as to what you alleage, That contraire to Humanity and Christianity they did Persecute the memory of that Prince after his death and that with the hight of insolencie and barbaritie, in the presence of his Son, who now reigneth. It is a calumnie, which you are not able to justify: Its true they wished and moved the King to repent, of his accession to, and mourne for the opposition to the work of God, violence and bloud, wherein his Father was unhappi∣ly engaged, and from which the Throne, except by serious Repentance, will never be purged. If this be the Inhumane, Insolent and Barbarous raking into his ashes which you lay to their charge, you remem∣ber little, and fear lesse, the jealousie of God, who ••isiteth the iniquity of the Fathers upon the Children to the third and fourth Generation: Neither doe you consider,

that the stain of Bloud is such, specially upon a Throne, that the unfeigned teares, even of the Author, do not wash it away. Ezrah and Nehemiah mourned and repented for the Provocation of Kings and Princes, many Ages past, without the least reflection upon their memories. Seeing therefore, that the practises where∣upon you found these high accusations, were alto∣gether consonant to the Word of God, and the Prin∣ciples then acknowledged both by King and People, and to which in Conscience, we do, and must still adhere, doth not your apparent bearing with us in the main, and yet so virulently inveighing against a clear dependencie, manifestly discover more then an inveterate malice?

As to our Ministers their manner of reproving sin, you say they reproved not in secret, but triumphed in the Pulpit without controll, and against absents, and that either out of Malice, or ostentation. Thus the tumor raised by the poison of your last calumnie doth still swell, and you forget that you your self are vainly triumphing in Print against a Mock-adversarie: But as you cannot verifie, that ordinarely, or allowedly, secret reproof was omitted, where there appeared rea∣son, and accesse for it; so, I am confident, your allegeance hath no better ground, then, that Mini∣sters for the strengthning of the Lords people, did freely hold out the Apostacie and wickednesse of his declared Enemies for whom such a reproofe had been but in vain intended.

In the next place you tell us, that the Sermons of our Ministers, were no Extraordinary things. Sir I will not compare, I am no lover of Extraordinary things; but I heartily wish that such Preaching were now more Ordinary: to believe, and therefore to speak, though with speach contemptible, is certainly infinit∣ly

more gracefull, then to speak, even Seraphickly, and in practise to counter-act. There is a Foolishnesse of Preaching commended by Paul, above the wisdom of man: Whether you would value it as an Ordinary or Extraordinary thing I know not? But this Epithet of Extraordinary, which you seeme to desiderat, is very little consonant to Luthers Opinion, Hi sunt optimi ad Populum, Conc••onat••res, qui pueriliter, popula∣riter, & quàm simpli••issime docent. These are the best Preachers unto the People, who teach in a plain, homely, and most simple way, You adde, that their Sermons were half stuffed with Publick Matters, nothing con∣cerning Souls: Why do you Hyperboliz•• so widely in prejudice of Truth? You know publick Matters were not medled with, but in a clear exigence, and if some did exceed, others were defective; and these were the infirmities of both; but you tell us, That these things concerne not Souls. This is a touch of your Convenient Religion. Pray Sir, are Publick Maters transacted without private mens accession? or in this accession, hath Conscience no concernment? Nay are not the solid practises of Christianity, such, as the contempt of the World, for the most part, most necessaire and conspicuous in Wrestling with, and overcoming the great and frequent temptation of a publick sinful course? But O the rare temper of this New device, that both inwardly elevats to the high∣est Spiritual abstractions, and outwardly smooths to a most easie temporizing complyance?

You say further, that the solid Practises of Christia∣nity were scarce ••ver named, and that vertue was little Preached by us, and far lesse Practised: but why do you make so little Conscience of truth? Your often touching upon this string, with the presumption of Common ingenuity, which I have and desire to re∣tain

for all men, have made me apply to all conjec∣tures, to find out your ground for this allegance; but in the end I see it is a plain forgerie. The Lord knows that I am far from boasting of former Practises, but that in this so visible a change, attending the present Establishment, from the Generall restraint and aw of Sin, that before did oblige even the most profligat, unto a seeming conformity, unto these confessed a∣boundings of all manner of profanitie, which do now fill the Land, you should have the confidence to say•• that vertue was by us little Preached and far lesse Practised, is that, which, I am sure, these of your own way do laugh at, and which, if ever ye returne to the right way ye will weep at.

And yet you proceed, to oppone to us our Sa∣viours Sermons, Particularly that upon the mount: I will not contend with your Mockeries. I wish that both yours and ours may reflect on short-comings, and endeavour amendment according to that pattern. Next you say, That the true hights of Spirituality were as little preached as the living in abstraction, silence, soli∣tude, and the still contemplations of God, the becoming dead to all things, and being much in Secret fastings. Sir you are so much upon your hights, that you see nothing about you. Pray descend a little and consider that your own Ministers are as great strangers to these fine ex∣pressions of yours, and you and they to the things sig∣nified, to say no worse, as ours are, and much more: And in effect seeing that you only measure your self by your self, you are not wise; and this affected no∣veltie of words doth argue litle sincerity. But if Com∣munion with God, fellowship with the Father and with his Son Iesus Christ, a heart and conversation in hea∣ven. Christ our Life, dying dayly, victorie over the World, and the like, may relish with you, in this, if Courser,

yet Scriptural style, our Ministers, I am sure, were not unfrequent in pressing of them, and secret prayers and fastings also, and, I am confident, their Mini∣strie hath a seal yet abiding, which may witness that it hath not been unfruitfull.

I cannot follow you in your again repeated accusa∣tion, as if our Ministers had only preached a Pharisaick observance of Ordinances, and a bare relyance on Christ without obedience to his Gospel. These are only your al∣legeances destitute of truth. Your next charge is that our Ministers handled nice subtilties, which they called Cases of Conscience. But Sir, as you grant that some devout people may be under doubtings, and fears; so in reason, you must allow, not only a privat appli∣cation for their remedy, but also Publick Doctrine, both necessaire for prevention, and conducible for cure: that in this there was an excesse, I believe few would have imagined, unless you had said it; Yet when I call to minde, what men of Conscience the generalitie of your Partie are, and how in effect, un∣acquainted with, nay declared Enemies to, all tender∣nesse thereof, if you had termed Conscience it self, & Melancholy Imagination, as well as Cases of Conscience, nice subtilities, it had added but little to my wonder. As for what you adde That it is unsufferable to hear peo∣ple who led but common lives talke of such things: It is a truth which I have often heard our Ministers assert, as also, that the best way of silencing all doubts, is, as you speak, to act Faith, renew Repentance, study Holinesse, Humility, and the other great practises of Christianity: Why then are you so Divisive, as to object things to us, wherein we do not differ? But a∣las the reason is too evident; the designe to render us Odious must be observed, and pursued by all Arts; And therefore, when you cannot contradict the

Power, that appeared in, and the fruit of Conversion and Edification, which accompanyed our Ministers preaching, Yet your eye being evil, by carping hints at Methods, and by unnecessary cautions, you suggest the things, which you have not the confidence to object: Thus you bid your N. C. See that by Power, he do not mean a Tone in the voice, A Grimace in the face &c. and by Conversion a change in Opinion, or out∣ward behaviour, influenced by Interest; But Sir, as both in Power and the fruit of Conversion, our Ministers have been througly made manifest amongst us; so I must add for their Voice and Gesture, that although some of them might have been rude in speach, yet not in knowledge: And if your better breeding, and sight of the Scene, have modelled your Tone and action, above the rate, as you phansie, of both yours and ours, you but the more marre its ridiculous grace∣fulnesse, by undervaluing others. And as for the Conversions attending our preachings, many of them are tryed and cannot be blasted by your mocking. I Grant some were proselyted, in whom the Evil Spirit having by Apostacie re-entered with seven more, they are become more the Children of the Devil then they were before; but seeing they are now yours, make them not our reproach.

Your next challenge, is, that wee termed our Preach∣ings the word of God, and you tell us that to call them so, and yet to confesse that Ministers may be mistaken in them, is a Contradiction; But why do you not rather accuse us plainly, for terming our Ministers the Ministers and Embassadours of Christ? If their Preach∣ings be not his message, no doubt they are not his Embassadours: and if they be his Embassadours, how can you deny their preachings in his Name, to be his Message? These things have such an evident, and

convertible coherence, that I am in a suspence whe∣ther to impute this passage, to your mistake, or not rather to a designe to subvert the Ministerie: And as many of your way would have it, to turne all Christs Preaches unto Royal Orators. As for your Contra∣diction, it doth no more impugne Preachings then Preachers: for to call Preachers the Lords Embassa∣dours. And their Embassie the Word of God, have the same appearance of inconsistencie, with the infir∣mity of Mistaking, wherein you phansie your repug∣nancie to lye; the truth is then first, that Ministers are the Lords Messengers; Next that their Preachings in his Name, and conforme to the Warrant of his Word, have not only that derived Authority, which the Scripture equally imparts to all Rational and sound deductions made from it, but also, a particular su∣peradded obligation from the Lords Commission, wherewith the Preacher is Ministerially cloathed, whence it clearly follows, that, as all true Ministers, their Preachings are in his Name, and ought to be agreeable to his Truth, so, the Preachers their admi∣xed mistakes, are of no more force, either to deprive Preaching of the name, or these things therein, that are sound and true, of the special Authority of the Word of God, then the accidental miscariage of an Embassadour, to make void his mission, in other things consonant to his instructions. How unsound then is your insinuation that The text indeed is the Word of God, but Ministers Glosses, (by which terme you mockingly understand all Preaching or Expounding) the words only of fallible men, as if a Ministers sound interpretation and application did pertake of Nothing speciall from the Character which he sustains, whereas you know that not only his Mission, doth impresse his words, with his Masters Authority; but hath

also many and great Promises of a suitable assistance: Having thus cleared the Common Cause of the Mi∣nistrie, and that their Preachings when sound, are from a special ground the Word of God: That which you subjoin of Ministers their usurping this name to their Preachings by Way of Artifice, that thereby they might procure the credite of the Infallible and Inspired Prophets, is as far from truth, as their diligence in searching of, and their care of confirming all their Doctrine by the Scriptures, with their frequent and continual intimations, that the People ought to build all their Faith upon that sure foundation, are notourly known.

But you have not yet done with our Ministers, you tell us again, that our great Men were medling Men, and most of them were very little spiritual in their con∣versation, and Seldom in the Commendation of God and Religion to the People. Sir, omitting your insinuate distinction of Greater and Lesser Ministers amongst us, which you know we acdnowledge, no further, or otherwayes, then the Lords free Grace & gifts do make it: and passing your accusation of Medling, which I have already answered: As to Spirituality of converse, it is indeed a thing so excellent, and beautiful, that it can never be enough studied, never enough practised, and never enough pressed; but the manner and designe of your reflection considered, it is so void of truth and charitie toward Non-confor∣mists, whereof so many have been burning and shin∣ing Lights, and so sadly applicable to your Clergie, the very scume of Men, let be of Christians, that I can only marvel at, and regret the excesse and confi∣dence of your Malice. Pardon me, if the strange∣nesse of your procedour force me to such expressions: I protest sincerely, your Methods are so perverse,

that I have no greater difficultie then how to find civil termes, sufficient to detect them: Thus after you have delivered a groundless and calumnious challenge of our Leaders, their want of Spirituality, in ordinary discourse, you hold out its singular usefulnesse: And falling to question us, as wholly strangers to these great things of Devotion, and holinesse, which you enumerate, you falsely conclude, truely these things are as little among you, as any partie I know: Well Sir, as I wish heartily that they were more, and that they may still encrease, even to your conviction, which, I am certain, requires a degree equall to, if not beyond perfection; so, my prayer is, that God who both knows all the darring and open wickednesse and un∣godlinesse of these of your way, and sees your heart, and weighs your words, may discover unto you the sin of speaking wickedly, and talking deceitfully against him and his servants.

In the next place, telling us, that we seeme very de∣sirous to be noticed in our Religion, You charge our Communions as tumultuary, disorderly, and talkative. It's Answered, that sometime they were numerous, is not denied; but if you consure Great multitudes their following of Christ as tumultuary, and disorderly, it is more then the jews ever did: That our running many miles to them shews us to be Idolizers of Men, your ob∣jected opporrunity of the Sacrament nearer hand, does not prove it: for as we were far from neglecting nee∣rer occasions, or undervaluing any of the Lords sin∣cere Servants; so, to acknowledge also and improve the difference of Gifts, which the Lord hath dispen∣sed, savours nothing of Idolizing, and cannot, with∣out palpable envy, be dissallowed: If in other things I were satisfied, and in the libertie of a free election, I am confident, that without slighting the call of

neerer invitations, I might chuse rather to go ten miles to your Communion, then five to anothers, and yet you cannot say that I Idolize you. As to what you object That at our Communions, all our businesse, both in preparation and Participation, was to hear and talk. it is but your mis-information or mistake, I am su••e previous self-examination (whether by the names or Inward stilnesse and recollection I do not indeed well remember) was alwayes most seriously pressed, and also much practised, and in the action it self, a short convenient silence, was the more general custome. As for your other alledged inconveniences of Croud and Distraction, these are but the peculiar aversions of your particular Genius, other more strong and lesse delicate and nice Spirits did easily overcome these dif∣ficulties.

You further say, that You cannot think them very devout, who love rather to hear one talk, then to retire inwardly and commune with their own hearts; but what esteem have you for him, who disliking the hearing of others, and pretending to inward retirements, mak∣eth the talk of these things all his work? And why do ye without ground accuse us of a preference, where∣of we are not guilty? As we hold both Hearing and Meditation to be duties, and beautiful in their sea∣sons; so, we endeavoured to practise, without ei∣ther the Partiality which you object, or its contrary which you incurre, O but you adde that some of us will be many hours in Publick worship, and perhaps not a quarter of an hour in secret. That there may be such amongst us, and worse, I nothing doubt; but if you intend this for an accusation, either against our way, or the Generality that own it, it is an allegeance, for which our Father who seeth in secret will in due time rebuke you.

Another fault which you find about our Commu∣nions is their i••••requencie as being brought by us from the dayly practice of the Apostles, and the after frequent custome of the whole Church, to once a year. Sir, you know so well the Churches power, and the dif∣fering observations that have been in use, as to this circumstance of time, that I think although your disatisfaction had been founded on better grounds; Yet you should have been tender to make of it an ob∣jection. That the Primitive Church did soon f••ll from the first dayly celebration, your own Argu∣ment grants: what was the after practice, and is at present your custome, I need not mention: it is cer∣tain that neither the one, nor the other, do agree to your rule of Weekly Communions. Suppose then our Church had by a suitable regulation of this matter, de∣signed the greater solemnity of Gods Ordinance, had this been a licentious admixing•• four own devices, as you are pleased to terme it: but the plain account of the thing, is, that there was no positive Prescription, as to the times of this observance, known amongst us. Only, as the Churches of old did Ordain that all Chris∣tians should Communicate, at least once a Year; so our Church did appoint that at least once, if not tuice, in the year this Sacrament should be administrate: Now if we liking better a joint then a separate partici∣pation of the people of the same Parish, and know∣ing that the particular exigences and desires, possibly incident to private Christians, might be easily supplied in other places, none being tyed to any fixed time, did therefore not so often celebrate, and for the most part but once a Year, truely I think that the variation from the former frequencie, was visibly compensed with a greater advantage of Solemnity•• As for your demands why the Communion was not keept every Lords

day? It's answered, as there is no command for it, so you have already heard, that we wanted not reason∣able considerations, which did persuade the contrarie. For the hint you give of the strict notice should be ta∣ken of receivers, I have often heard our Church char∣ged with the excesse, but never before with the defect in this particular.

You fall next to censure the posture of sitting in time of Publick prayer, as very irreverent. Sir, not to de∣tain you I am not far from your opinion: For my own part, and I have many of our way assenting, I dislike sitting in prayer, (if infirmity and other great incon∣veniences do not hinder it) and for proof of it, I adde to your answere made to the instance of Davids sitting before the Lord. 1 Chron. 17. 16. That he who con∣sidereth the occasion of David's address, even the gra∣cious and high exalting message that the Prophet had delivered to him, with the tenour of his words, ex∣pressing rather an astonishing Meditation of wonders, not able to forme it self at first into either direct pray∣er, or praise, then any thing els, will find no diffi∣culty to acknowledge that the decent enough proprie∣ty, yea almost the necessity of sitting in such an op∣pressing amazement, cannot rationally be drawn in consequence: but as in this we agree, so I cannot but disagree from you in your overprising and exacting the postures that you plead for: for though I am con∣vinced that there is an indecencie, and other incon∣veniences in sitting, for which I wish, that where∣ever it may be, it were wholly disused; Yet I am far from offending at, let be imposing upon, these who of no intended irreverence, but for the most part from a just disgust of the too great weight hath been laid upon such circumstances, do innocently practise It. I confesse that kneeling and standing in prayer, are

in the Scriptures very frequently mentioned: but as thereby the thing is only circumstantially noted, and no where, no not in these invitations, O come let us worship and bow down (where the Gesture is only men∣tioned as the more Ordinary, and the substance ex∣horted to) designedly pressed; So there are also upon record, such clear instances of an undetermined liber∣ty in these matters, apparent enough in our Lord his Disciples and Company, their Ordinary sitting down to meat, and blessing and giving thanks in that posture, that I cannot bu•• strange at your bringing any of these practices under an obligation: But that which I do most admire, is, that you who just now were telling us that even heavenly Publick pra••ers, ••asts, Commu∣nions, keepin•• the Sabbath, and the like, are but exter∣nall devotion p, 16. And spirituall things of a very lo•• syze and degree•• such as cannot car••••on to perfection p 20. should on a sudden descend so far below your spirituall hights and great Christian Practices, as to debate about Sitting or Standing, as the Cardinal points of Religion Nay to such a heat, that though you do not say, you would separate upon this ground from these Si••ters; Yet in substance you say no less, then that you would be content that they did separate from You, and so do both approve and wish for a separation: Sir, you are discovered beyond the disguising of all your shifts: God grant you to consider it. And also how neer this doth approach, to what our Lord sayeth, in almost the like case, This people honoureth me with their Lips, but their heart is far from me, howbeit, in vain do they worship me, teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: for laying aside the Commandments of God, ye hold the Tradition of men.

Your next reflection is upon the Family-Worship that was so frequent in former times, and here you

taxe Masters of Families, For Expounding Scripture, and wish that we do not overvalue other lawfull exercises. Sir, as to what yow make your N. C. say of Expounding Scripture, I look upon it as a meere suggestion of your own, that yow may finde somthing to reprehend even in our best performances: You know all that was al∣lowed in the directions for Familie-Worship, was, that Masters with their Families should read the Scrip∣tures with understanding, and by mutuall conference Edifie one another, neither are you against Expoun∣ding by Masters, who are very intelligent: And for the practice, it was in effect so rare, and imperfect, that I am con••ident your accusation of excesse to most N. C. will only prove a check for their deficiencie. As for your Wish I verily think it good, but no good wish. When the calling upon the Name of the Lord in Families is now so universally and irreligiously flight∣ed, and by many openly mocked at, think you it a season for such over-cautelous advices? Nay Sir, in the so sad and Lamentable decline of this dutie to the ex∣treme of neglect and contempt, groundlesly to cau∣tion against the other, of an over-value, is but to har∣den the wicked, who forget God, and weaken the hands of such as seeke his face in sinceritie.

From this point, in the eagernesse of your pursute of the people of God, you passe to private meetings. And with you I can grant, that they have had both their use and abuse, I can grant also that, in the setled plentie of pure Ordinances, to bring Church-exercises to Cham∣bers; or private conference to a publick confluence, is (in my opinion) superfluous and affected; Not that I would have Religion wholly astricted in its exerci∣ses, to Churches, Families, or to Mens Closets: but ••s I acknowledge a communication and speech alway with Grace, to be the very ••alt of Christians their con∣verse,

& would judge nothing more becoming then to see Religion so seriously & constantly minded, that men were pursuing & observing its occasions more then these, either of bussiness or recreation; so I think to con∣trive & keep particular meetings with a visible affecta∣tion of singularity were a thing justly to be avoided; & thus in our better times, it was commonly both held & followed. But Sir, ye must suffer me withal to tell you, that as Satan had a speciall envy at these, perceiv∣ing how much, when in singleness and sincerity gone about, and performed with just caution, they did con∣tribute to the grouth, comfort, and mutuall edifi∣cation of the Saints; and therefore to make the thing it self odious, he abused the well-meaning honesty of some, and used the sinister designes of others to a tur∣ning of these out of their proper channels, that so they might miss of their just ends: though I must tell you, that to talk so much of these justly reprehensi∣ble escapes, without incouraging to the dutie, where∣by so many have reaped advantage, seems to be a fault no less challengeable in a Minister of the Gos∣pel, one part of whose work it is, if he be a worker together with God, to exhort his hearers to comfort themselves together, and edifie one another, then any of these abuses amongst private Persons in such meetings, against which you with so much eagerness exclaime: it would no question much better become one careing naturally for ye flock of Christ, and car∣rying as a faithfull Feeder, to be assiduous in pressing the dutie, carefull in directing, and deeply affected with any advantage that Sathan got over the Saints, in the use of such a mean, then to publish to the world his victories, that the thing it self might pass for a vice. As for the practice of Private Meetings in evil times, all your supposed and accidental inconvenien∣ces, to which even the best of things are obnoxious,

are far from making me condemn that, which to the Lord is very acceptable, and to his People profitable, Mal. 3. 16. So that, if the inten••••ment and applica∣tion of your Discou••se be levelled at our latter cus∣tomes, seeing you cannot truely charge them with any of these evils which you mention, and since your o∣pinion doth clearly depend upon your different judge∣ment as to the main. I must take liberty to dissent from you, with the same confidence wherewith you assert it, and withall tell yow that I wish their frequen∣cie did keep a proportion with the deep distress of the People of God, in this penury of pure publick preaching; and then, I am sure, we should have ten for one, and if so, there were ground of hope that they might, in these Private Meetings, pray your Intruders out of their publick capacities, that so these, who now dare not be over••heard in their meetings to mourne for the desolation of the Sanctuary, and the departings of the G••ory, might bless him together in these Assemblies, out of which they are thrust and keept, and might once more, as of old, be made glad in his house of Prayer.

For a close to this Dialogue, you make your N. C. boast of the glory of our Unitie, to the effect that you may the more foully set out the divisions that fell out amongst us, and to do it with the greater advantage, you endeavour prudently to remove by a preface, the suspicion of what you are resolved to practise; and therefore you tell us, You love not the Spirit of detrac∣tion; but whether you be acted by it or not, let these Epithets you give us, of Unchristian, Malitious, Brethren in Cruelty, and Implacable, bear witness: for my part, though I do so much detest divisions, that I am content to let your representation passe, with all its excesse, on purpose, that to all concern∣ed

they may appear more odious, and that if it be the Lords will, even your reproachful tongue, may smite the guiltie into Repentance; yet for the vindication of the truth, I must say, that such hath been its bad fate, and worse reception in the Earth, that I should sooner judge Division; then Unitie, to be the signe of Orthodoxie, to be found among a partie; Perfect unity in truth, is a blessing so great, that it is reserved for Glory: If you think that our Lord came to send peace on Earth, remember his own words; I came not to send peace but a sword, and to set a man at variance against his Father, &c. Schismes must be, nay were the very first temptations and trial of the Church, a∣gainst which all the Light and Power of the Apostles could not guard it. As therefore Sir, you do falsely make us to glory in our Unity, so, take head lest by making division our charge, yow do not far more calumniously reproach the Christian Faith. Do not imagine that I do hereby patronize divisions; Nay I know and am persuaded, that because there is nothing more repugnant to the Genius, and hurtfull to the progresse of Truth, then Contentions, therefore it is, that the Devil hath even laboured most to infest it: with these temptations; but I would have you to understand, that seeing these strifes, whereof you ac∣cuse us, did certainly proceed from the remaining dreg, and adventitious mixture of ane Evil Spirit, relaxing former Engagements, remitting the first Zeal, and not a little bending to your way, and from mens corruptions on all hands, although that you could say that our course did take away Peace, and in place thereof being War; yet it would no more inferre the Spirit that moved therein to be contentious, then you can justly object against the blessed Gospel of Peace, these Schismes, hatred, and tumults, where∣with

in all Ages it hath most ••••••ocently filled the World. As therefore our Lord doth make it the great characteristick of himself, blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended in me, so let not the heats and con∣tests about Tru••••, affright you from its search, or foolishly induce you, unconcernedly, without dis∣stinction, to condemn all Contenders; but rather more engage you to seeke and hold it fast, and highly to esteem all its zealous adherents, where ever you perceive the Devil to best••••re himself most actively a∣gainst it: Surely if this disposition were in you, the offense you seem to take, either at the greater opposi∣tions betwixt the Friends & Adversaries of the Lords work, or these humane infirmities wherewith his Servants amongst themselves hapened to be exercised, would soon be removed. As for you•• Veneration, whereof you judge us unworthy, we acclaime it not, we wish your Most Reverend and Right Reverend did truely merite it, which is all the Scolding wherewith I repay your Malice.