A treatise of the nature of a minister in all its offices to which is annexed an answer to Doctor Forbes concerning the necessity of bishops to ordain, which is an answer to a question, proposed in these late unhappy times, to the author, What is a minister?

About this Item

Title
A treatise of the nature of a minister in all its offices to which is annexed an answer to Doctor Forbes concerning the necessity of bishops to ordain, which is an answer to a question, proposed in these late unhappy times, to the author, What is a minister?
Author
Lucy, William, 1594-1677.
Publication
London :: Printed by Thomas Ratcliffe for the author, and are to be sold by Edward Man ...,
1670.
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Subject terms
Hooker, Thomas, 1586-1647. -- Survey of the summe of church-discipline.
Forbes, John, 1593-1648. -- Irenicum.
Church of England -- Clergy.
Clergy -- Office.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A49441.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A treatise of the nature of a minister in all its offices to which is annexed an answer to Doctor Forbes concerning the necessity of bishops to ordain, which is an answer to a question, proposed in these late unhappy times, to the author, What is a minister?." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A49441.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 3, 2024.

Pages

How their Ministerial Offices may be given by men.

COncerning the first of these, he makes his first Conclusion thus; There is a Causal virtue put forth in a Subordinate way by some under Christ, to bring the formality or specifical be∣ing of an Ecclesiastical Office to a person or party that is Called thereunto, or stands possessed thereof.

Alas▪ what mighty words are these, and how easily might the businesse of this Proposition have been expressed to the Capa∣city of any Reader, if he had said, there is some power under Christ to Constitute Ecclesiastical Officers; there is no need of such high and difficult Terms of Causal virtue, Formality, or Ec∣clesiastical being, which do amuse a weak Capacity, and no way satisfie an Intelligent.

The Drift of his Conclusion is to prove, that there is an outward Call necessary to a Minister, which, he saith, is by none denyed, but by Anabaptists and Familists, which folly and mad∣nesse labours (as he saith) with the loathsomnesse of it self: so he contemns them, but truly they are now grown a Considera∣ble Enemy; but I let them passe to answer for themselves, which I am considen they cannot justly; and indeed I grant this whole Conclusion, and let alone his proofs of it. But yet because he placeth a necessity upon it as surely is Truh, I would ask, whe∣ther the necessity be not required out of the part of such as are to receive the Pastor or Elder? and I am sure he must yield it; for there is no reason Men should receive such a Pstor who is not lawfully called, (to use his own phrase;) but then why doth he despise the Bishops Seal and Parchment in a Box, as he speaks page 40. when there can be none other Evidence to the people of his Call, but this? And again, because this is a 〈…〉〈…〉 a Causal virtue, which he useth, I shall adde something 〈◊〉〈◊〉

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Explication of it, which he hath omitted; there is a physi∣cal Cause, and a Moral Cause. This word Cause at the first reading sounds like a Physical Operation; and although in his second Conclusion he addes this Term, Instrument or means, yet that is not to be allowed in a physical notion; for these pow∣ers in men have no physical influx into these Effects, no not as Instruments; for, as the Philosophers speak, an Instrument hath its particular work in the Effect: so a knife or axe, which be both Instruments, have their several wayes of Operation, though used by the same hand, and do their work according to their particular and proper dispositions; but now these Agents have no Influence on the Subject, but only as moral Instruments; as a hand and feal have no physical Nature to pay a Debt, but on∣ly a moral force, which is granted it by the Law of the Realm; and from thence it hath this moral force, not a physical. Of this nature I conceive this power granted to men to give Orders, and it is founded upon that great Commission; As my Father sent me, so send I you, with that Authority to grant powers to other men; so that the powers, the Authority granted by them, are Confirmed by God▪ they having a moral Causality to do such Things which God will Confirm, but they working not so much as Instrumentally any physical Effect. Thus the Conclusion being explained, I grant it, but in his handling of it, many things deserve Censure; for although he bragg at the Top of the 44th▪ Page, that he will lend such help to the weakest Reader, that he may lay his finger upon the several Things; yet indeed he is mightily perplexed and intricate, which I passe, and granting his Conclusion, will not disturb his manner of handling it, only repeate what he saith at the bottom of the 45 page, whoever in a Compleat way hath received this outward Call, he is then a Compleat and true Officer, and may act any part of his Office, though not inwardly graced or fitted worthy of such a place or Work by God; this I put down, lest he may start from it here∣after, and so will passe it over, and proceed with the same suc∣cinctnesse to his second Conclusion, which is p. 48. and is this.

It is an Act of power as an Instrument or means under Christ to give an Officer the being of an outward Call in the Church. Here an Instrument being taken, as I expounded it before, a moral Instrument: This Conclusion hath Truth granted like∣wie,

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and so I passe to his second head, pag. 49. by what means the essential of this power may be Conveyed?

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