Just re-proposals to humble proposals. Or An impartiall consideration of, and answer unto, the humble proposals, which are printed in the name of sundry learned and pious divines, concerning the Engagement which the Parliament hath ordered to be taken Shewing, how farre those proposals are agreeable to reason, to Christianity and to policie. How the proposers thereof may receive satisfaction therein, in all these respects. Hereunto are added, The humble proposals themselves; because they are not currantly to be found. Written by John Dury. January 7. 1650. Imprimatur, Joseph Caryl.
Dury, John, 1596-1680., Reynolds, Edward, 1599-1676.

SECT. VI. What course may be taken to give these Scruplers full satisfaction.

IN the fore-going Section, the subscribers have apologized for themselves; and I have said in their Name, that which I am perswaded all may, and most will assent unto; to wipe off the odium, and foul aspersions which are cast upon them for their forwardnesse to do their duty. Now I shall humbly offer something further, towards the satisfaction of these Scruplers; that if the Re-proposals of the Subscribers, clear not their doubts sufficiently; some other Overtures may not be wanting to ease them of the same, and induce them to the performance of their Duty.

If then, in Charity to them whom I esteem brethren, and in Prudency to our selves, for the preservation of publick Peace, by some mutuall assurance of fidelity between fellow-Subjects; it * is expedient to think upon some satisfactory course, how to pre∣vent further devisions, and heale (if it be possible) our breaches: Page  20 left the Common enemy both of Religion and Liberty, get his fit opportunity, by co-operating with our failings, to set us a∣worke to destroy each other, who together have co-operated hitherto in the common cause of Reformation, and just liberty; If (I say) this be expedient to be thought upon, I would hum∣bly suggest, towards the removing of these Scruples; whether conscientiously by single-hearted Brethren, or politically by some others who have double designes entertained; these ensuing Mo∣tions.

1. Because no man can possibly receive full satisfacti∣on in any thing, except he will uncase himself that all his doubt∣ings * may be known to those that sincerely study his content; therefore our Brethren who make these Proposals are to be in∣treated to declare; whether yea or no these be all the scruples, which they have against the Subscription to the Engagement; So that if these be removed, nothing will further hinder their Subscription?

2. If these are all their scruples, and that nothing is further desired but the removall thereof, then our Brethren are in the next place to be intreated further to declare; whether they have in their eye any way of clearing these doubts, by which they con∣ceive (as knowing themselves best) their satisfaction if it were * followed might arise, and wherein their Conscience would ac∣quiesce? As for example whether a well-ordered Treaty, to re∣move mis-understandings, and to determine, by known princi∣ples, matters of duty, will do it yea or no? or whether they con∣ceive that nothing will satisfie their doubtings, and embolden them to subscribe, but either such a Declaration to be made by the supream power, upon the Engagement, as they shall rest contented in; or else such a liberty to put in their own cautions, their limitations of performance, and their interpretation of the sence wherein they take it; that in a manner they shall have their own will wholly, without yielding any thing at all to the will of their Superiours, to give them satisfaction?

If they will not answer any of these Queres, but will keep a hidden reserve of doubts; or if nothing but one of the two last Proposals, will be esteemed satisfactory: then it is evident, that in the Proposers aime there is no sincerity; for although they Page  21 seeme by their Proposals, to seeke satisfaction to themselves, and * a way of agreement with others; yet because they manifestly obstruct all the rational meanes of clearing thir own doubts; and refuse to deale ingenuously towards the obtaining of an equita∣ble satisfaction from others, in that wherein they pretend to be scrupled, it may justly be concluded, that these scruples are one∣ly proposed to colour a wilfull resolution of non-subscribing, and of standing at a distance from under the present power; and that consequently there is some further designe in hand as to State-affaires, tending to a future breach; which how beseeming it may be to the humility and piety of such as are called learned and pious Divines, to have a hand in, and what Conscience it will be in them to cover it with the mask of tenderness of Consci∣ence; I shall leave to the judgement of all single-hearted Christi∣ans to determine.

It is a sad thing to consider, how far some men, who want not parts; and who undoubtedly are truly Godly for the main; are led sometimes (in the agitation of the affaires, wherein a party which they do affect is ineressed) away from the simplicity of the Gospel to play the Politicians, and it is neither well credible to others, nor at all discernable by themselves; how far when once they begin to warpe from the way of Christian simpicity, * and pure love to their duty; the motions of their own passion; the plots of other men; and the designes of opposition against those whom they dis-affect, will insinuate themselves into their very Consciences, under the pretence of piety and zealousness for Religion; which they falsly first imagine to be the cause they have in hand, and then in favour of this imagination they rashly licenciat themselves unto many things; whereof in the day of their account they will be troubled to find a justifiable ac∣quittance. *

But supposing as I ought to do, that in these Proposers there is nothing under the deck; but that in this modest and dis-creet way, the plaine truth and all the truth of their grievances, at the subscription is represented above board; I shall now point at the means, which in a faire Treatie, I conceive may produce unto them so much satisfaction, as in equity they can desire; That they may have cause to deale ingenuously, either by accep∣ting Page  22 of that which is offered, if it may be procured, or by ex∣cepting against it, if it seem not satisfactory; in which last case, I think it would be fair dealing in them, not only to alleadge their reasons, why they are not satisfied with what shall be offered; but also to make their own demands, wherein at least they will rest satisfied; for to lye only at the word of excepting, is an un∣reasonable posture in treating between two equals, when both are alike concerned in a matter of difference, far more then it is unreasonable when Subjects by a Treaty make their application toward Superiours, and seek to gaine the favour of some equi∣table satisfaction from them in a matter of such concernment; which imports no lesse then either the losse or the assurance of all their outward protection and safety.

And seeing to stand alwayes on the excepting, and not at all on the offering or accepting hand, is a frame of spirit not onely unfriendly amongst the Members of the same Communalty, but altogether unsutable to the profession of Christianity; and also most of all unbecoming the worke of the Ministery, and un∣proportionate to the wayes of peace and mutuall confidence a∣mongst brethren; therefore, I shall not be so injurious as to suspect any of them of any unwillingnesse to treat in a faire way; nor shall I imagine, that any sinistrous designe is hatched by the matter, and the proposing of these Proposals in the mind of a discontented party, to strengthen the captions, carping, peevish, and excepting humour of the times. I say, I shall not suspect a∣ny such thing, although to a jealous eye; the matter thereof compared with the aime therein, and the covered close way of dispersing the same amongst the doubtfull multitude; and at a time whiles petitions to gaine delayes, and respit for further resolutions, are presented to Superiours, may look somewhat suspitiously. Yet (I say) for all this I shall not suspect that any designe contrary to peaceablenesse, is fomented thereby in the affections of any: nor shall I wish, that upon the appearance of such a cause of jealousie any strictnesse should be used in the set∣tlement of this businesse; But I shall rather pray, perswade and exhort, that on both sides, the open carriage of all matters, as in the presence of God, may take away or prevent as well the ap∣pearance of subtile contrivances on the one hand, as the surmises Page  23 thereof on the other: for both these equally blast the hopes of unity, and the grounds of amiable confidence in all men who are at a distance one from another; for which cause I shall be a most humble sutor towards all sides, that on all hands, not on∣ly a friendly Treaty may be set afoot, and chearfully assented unto; but that whiles matters of just scruple are taken into con∣sideration, therein to be resolved by known and predetermined * rules; the matters of clear duty in the interim may not be sus∣pended or intermitted on eithersides, because all our danger lies in the neglect of common known duties, more then in any thing else: for if we would but do that which we confesse we ought to do, and which we wish others would do to us; there would be no doubt a speedy healing of our breaches: nor can there a∣ny good reason be given why I should suspend to act a known duty in that wherein I am not scrupled, because I ought to be left free to abstain from acting in that wherein I am scrupled: that which in Christianity is clear and positive, is alwayes to be intended before that which is dark and negative: nor may I with a good conscience, refuse to follow the light which I have in the main of a duty, so far as it is practicable; because I want some light in some circumstantiall cases, which may fall in, as to me, to be unpracticable. If therefore this ground can be laid and as∣sented unto, that whatever we shall agree upon to be a clear and undeniable duty in Christianity or Morality, shall be practised for it selfe, not withstanding all other differences or defects fal∣ling in among us, and that in the disquisition of matters we shall proceed alwayes first to determine that wherein we fully agree, before we mention matters of dis-agreement; I am confident that we shall finde so much cause of satisfaction and assurance in each others resolutions and engagements of that kind, that the different apprehensions of matters which now seem ex∣tream; and through our mutuall mistrustings of each other, are like to be the utter ruine of both, will be found very incon∣siderable, and such as will be wholly swallowed up by the grounds of mutuall assurance which naturally results from every faith∣full Engagement, to practise things wherein there is a full agree∣ment between parties; for the not doing (as I said before) of that which in our places we should do with singlenesse of heart, Page  24 without contradicting and contesting one with another, about that wherein we suspect each other (as aiming at that which we should not do) is the Originall and great cause of all our distrac∣tion and unsettlement; which if we could intend to redresse and remove (viz. by overcoming evill with good; that is, the feares * of evill designs and enterprizes, with good motions and engage∣ments unto unquestionable duties) there is no doubt but we should find a cleare way to Peace and reconcilement: this there∣fore is the course, which I would suggest to be followed, be∣tween those that are scrupled at the Engagement, and those that are not scrupled at it, in their friendly conference and Trea∣tie, viz.*

First let matters of agreement be proposed, understood and ratified, in things Positive and Negative.

Secondly, Let there be a professed Engagement, to practise that which is answerable unto their Agreements, and tending undoubtedly to edification between them.

Thirdly, Let matters of disagreement both positive and ne∣gative be thought upon with these two cautions premised to prevent a breach.

First, That no disagreement in Judgement or practise, shall make void the Dutifull Engagement, to follow joyntly the matters of Agreement.

Secondly, That to take away the offences, which may arise upon the differences of opinions and practises, some Rules are to be pre-determined; whereby contentious debates about the same may be prevented, and whereby the right use of Christian, of Morall and of Rationall freedom therein may be set∣led.

If therefore those Pious and Learned Brethren, whose scruples against the Engagement, being thus proposed, have a great influ∣ence upon the minds of others, to make them scrupulous and dis∣affected at it: if (I say they would condescend to the Overture of such a Treatie, (which hither to some have not been willing to do) I am very confident through the blessing of Christ, that an Ex∣pedient would easily be found to settle their doubtfull thoughts; and so to make all others willing to yield unto their Superiours, Page  25 that ground of just assurance and acquiescence, for which the Engagement by them proposed, is requisite.

And this is the course, by which those that are ingenuous may receive satisfaction, if they seek it as they ought; but if any doth scruple more through Policie then Pietie, this course will not * be liked of, because it will crosse their design; which is, to keepe the minds of the weaker sort in a staggering condition, that they may not close to any settlement; but lye open to all manner of changes: I shall not charge any of the Authors of these Propo∣sals with any such designe; yet I cannot absolve all of them from it; for I may as lawfully suspect them in this matter as in any o∣ther * matter I may do mine own heart, whereof although I know none evill; yet I shall do my self no injury, to say, that yet there may be some mixture of deceitfulnesse in it, when I thinke my meaning is at the best; For the Apostle himself would not take upon him to justifie himself in all things. I know (saith he) no∣thing by my self, yet I am not thereby justifie; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord. So I may without offence say, of the Proposers of * these scruples, that although I know nothing by them, but judge charitably that their scruples as to them are truely conscientious yet I must also say, that thereby they are not justified from the mixture of collaterall designes; but that it is the Lord who will judge them. The maine of the businesse may be truly a doubt of Conscience; and yet the managing of it, in the hands of some may be somewhat else; nor do I wrong the Christian charity which I owe to all or any of them in this; because it is lawfull for me to be jealous over them with godly jealousie lest by any meanes, as the Serpent beguiled Eve by his subtilty: so their minds should be corrupted from the simplicity which is in Christ * And truly to look but upon the matter it self, by comparing the former and latter parts of the proposals together, a doubt may be made thus; that seeing the maine scruple where at they stick, is not so much against the Duty expressed in the words of the Engagement; which is, to be true and faithfull, or against the Object of the Duty considered in it self, which is this Common-Wealth: or against the immediare qualifications of the Object and of the Duty; which are, as it is now established without a King and House of Lords, which are acknowledged to be the effects of Gods Providence; but onely against the act of subscribing to the Page  26 whole, in reference to some State-considerations and consequen∣ces following thereupon; which tend to nothing else, but to suspend the minds of men, and take them off from the regular performance of a present Duty, by the conjectural apprehensions of doubtfull inconveniences which may ensue as to the State. Therefore it is not without a rationall ground of jealousie; that although the matters proposed, may be reall scruples of Consci∣ence, and rationally reflected upon by some without prejudice; yet that in this proposing of them, as to the disposition of the matter, to fetch about this form of speech, the hand of Joab may also have been in it, for some selfe-interest of State. *

And this may be thought the more likely to be true, if we ob∣serve two things. First, that the words of this Engagement (which are scrupled at, and said to be contrary to former En∣gagements, and the duties mentioned in the second Sect.) are not at all once alleadged; to shew distinctly, wherein the men∣tioned contrariety doth stand; but the objection is made con∣fusedly against the Act of subscribing to the words, according to that prejudice which the vulgar hath taken up against them in a generall notion. Herein then the subtilty of the Policy doth lye: that the matter should be couched in such a way, as doth most commodiously favour that notion, and strengthen it: which in men of learning, conscience and piety, feeking a clea∣ring of doubts, doth not seem to be faire and plaine dealing, and therefore may be thought to have somewhat of a Collaterall designe.

Secondly, we may observe also, that if the thing clearly pro∣fessed in the second Sect. of the Proposals to be a known duty, had been really intended, and resolved upon to have been pra∣ctised at this time no lesse then in generall termes acknowledged to be a thing at some time lawfully practicable; there would not have been any inclination to do two things which here are done; not without some contrivance. First, the performance of duties confessed to be due to such Superiours, as are in places over us, and by a people in our case under them, would not have been per indirectum denied to be due by us unto them. Secondly, the words of the Engagement upon which the whole stresse of the scruple is said to lye; and for which that which is confessed to be due to others is denyed to our Superiour Powers, would Page  27 not have been suppressed, and left in the dark as they are; but clearly mentioned and alleadged as they are not, lest the falacy of the pretended scruple should appear. For if the duty acknow∣ledged in Thesi, had been applied to the Hypothesis of our pre∣sent condition, and the duty required in the words of the En∣gagement had been compared therewith, the pretended matter of scruple, would by the full agreement of the one with the other, havebeen found apparently impertinent: but it may be conceived, that the matter is laid thus before the pre-possessed Reader, or weak discerner of such contrivances; to the end, that upon a full acknowledgement of a just duty, and a willing∣nesse to perform the same, in a case like to ours, the iniquity of that which is supposed to be required of us, by the Engagement; may be heightened in mens apprehensions, who are easily swayed to receive the worst impressions of those that are in places of power over them: by how much then they seem to yield to a ra∣tionall duty, and be of an equitable disposition towards their Superiours, by so much they prevaticate against the intention of the Engagement to make it to be thought altogether contrary to reason and to justice; by a slye concealing of the words, and a suspitious interpretation thereof, suggested, as containing mat∣ters very far different from the acknowledged duty, and wholly opposite to former Engagements. Whereas in truth and deed, there is no such thing aimed at by the Engagement, nor implyed in the words thereof. So that from the third paragraphe of the Proposals to the end thereof; the whole matter and contrivance of the discourse may be thought (and yet without doing inju∣ry to the Authours) nothing else but a Politicall Stratagem and Sophisme grounded upon the mis-application and mis-interpre∣tation of the Engagement and Covenant, to entangle weake and * undiscorning consciences; and to keep up the spirit of dis-affe∣ction in the mindes of the multitude under the pretence of scruples of that kind.

The thing then to be offered to obviate the deceit of this po∣liticall contrivance of the bosinesse, and to give satisfaction (if it can be admitted) to this politicall scrupulosity of conscience is this: that the words of the Engagement in their plain sense; which imports a clear duty, are to be confronted with that which in the second Sect. they confesse to be consonant with the will Page  28 of God, with the light of nature, with the judgement of the Learned, with the practise of former Christians, and with their own principles and former Engagements: and then if the Duty mentioned in the Engagement doth run wholly parallell, as the case now stands with us, to that which they yield to be a Duty as they State the case in generall themselves; then they should be made to reflect upon themselves, that they ought to be satis∣fied in this; that by taking the Engagement, nothing is farther required of them then what they proclaime themselves, to be a performable duty in such a case. But if their Politicall contem∣plations of the meaning of the Engagement, through the sinister prospectives & jealousies which they take up, and foment against their Superiours, by an uncharitable mis-construction of their aimes; will not suffer them to acquiesce in this parallelisme of the Engagement, with what they acknowledge to be lawfull; then a further course may be taken, and shall be offered unto them, if they will intend to bring matters to a faire tryall and issue, and that is this: that the consequences, which they say are implyed in the words of the Engagement, may be taken into con∣sideration and examined in three respects. *

First, How far the words of the Engagement, do import in the ordinary acception by an indifferent Judge, any such matters, as they say are implyed therein.

Secondly, How far, if the words should import any such mat∣ters in any sense, the performance of the Engagement in that sense, is agreeable with the Duties mentioned by themselves in the 2. Sect. performable by Subjects towards their Superiours, in the case they are supposed and wherein now we are.

Thirdly, How far the Covenant and former Engagements, wil be contradictory or not contradictory to this Engagement, al∣though the consequences here said to be implyed therein, should be granted to follow thereon.

In all which matters, if upon known grounds and principles of Christianity and Rationality, a regular way of disquiry may be followed, as it becometh Divines within their bounds, in refe∣rence to Conscience, modestly, and not as it becometh States∣men, in reference to interests, suspiciously, and if they will in∣gage to stand or fall to the issue of that disquiry; I dare in the fear of God, undertake to let them see satisfactory grounds, Page  29 whereby their scruples will be cleared, and wherein consequent∣ly their Consciences ought to acquiesce, if they will not subordi∣nate the inclinations thereof, to an affected scrupulosity for the love of a party. For that all this contrivance of the Proposals, is like unto the hand of Joab in the mouth of the woman of Tekoah; to bring about a designe, rather then to receive a single-hearted satisfaction for themselves; is neither irrational to think, nor un∣charitable * to say, but just and equitable in prudencie to suspect: and here we have a clear example of a smooth and handsome conveyance of a State-business, under a ministerial cloak and pre∣tence of Religiousness, not in, but out of the Pulpit; which is one of the things which in another larger Treatise, I have shewed to be one of the main causes of our present distempers and confusi∣ons; namely, when Ministers meddle with State-matters, either in their Pulpits a•… were authoritatively, or out of the same more subtilly in such a way, and to such a purpose as this; therefore to rectifie the fundamentall error of the aime and design of these Proposalls, as to State-Matters, let me referre the ingenuous Reader, but especially these Learned and Pious Divines, to an unprejudicat perusall of that Treatise; wherein if any shall show me, that I have wronged the profession, or unjustly taxed the practise of some, or mistaken my way in seeking Peace & Truth, to heale our present breaches; I shall professe my self to be very much beholding to him. Upon this whole matter then I shall professe thus much; that although I thus trace in the Spirits of these Proposers by the matter and contrivance of their Proposals such an inclination to meddle in State-affairs, which is unsutable to their Calling; yet that I have no preju∣dice against them in my heart for so doing, nor do I intend, to fasten upon them any charge of false and fained pretences of be∣ing scrupled, otherwise then indeed they are (for I believe tru∣ly that they are thus scrupled, and puzzeled in Conscience about their own imaginations concerning State-matters, rather through weaknesse and custome, and want of a Rule to discern the moti∣ons of their own spirits, then through any set aime, to take up∣on them the management of State-Matters) but I look upon them, as the frame of their thoughts represents it self and them by their way unto me; whereof I have discovered the Rationali∣ty, the Christianity and the Policie, to shew, that in all respects Page  30 satisfaction may be given them, if they desire it ingenuously; and that if their spirit by the deceitfulness of error is led forth unad∣visedly, in another way then they ought to walk in, that that al∣so can be discovered; for there is nothing hid but it shall be re∣vealed: and being revealed, a Rule may be found to rectifie what∣ever is amisse therein. I shall therefore for mine own part, not refuse (if they will needs insist upon their Politicall scruple, and thinke that their Consciences ought to be engaged, into those State-considerations) to deale with them upon their inferences from the words of the Engagement, which is their own Wea∣pon onely with this caution; that we shall not take opon us to become such absolute Judges, of the wayes of those that are in places of Magistracy, as to make our own interpretation of their wayes a Rule of all obedientiall dutifulnes in our selves or other Subjects, to bind thereunto as to a Law, our onscience above Christianity and Morality; and that in speaking of the actions and intentions of Superiours we shall be no lesse charitable to them, then we would have others to be to us, or we should be to other men ruling in another place in such occurrences of publick affairs, with this proviso, their scruples even upon such Politicall contemplations as they meddle withall, shall, if they please, be ta∣ken into consideration; although we shall be in very great dan∣ger to go beyond the line of our Calling, and every foot to go out of our way; which my chief study is in all these agitations of matters by known Rules to prevent: which the Lord direct us by the light of his countenance, not onely to intend, but also to do, to the advancement of his glory, and our mutuall comfort in the way of Righteousness, Amen.