I. Question: Why are you a Catholic? The answer follows. II. Question: But why are you a Protestant? An answer attempted (in vain) / written by the Reverend Father S.C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict ...

✚ Why are you a CATHOLIC?

A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A PROTESTANT AND A CATHOLIC.

§. 1.

Protestant.

WHY are you a Catholic?

Catholic.

Because I am a Christian, and by the Rule of Christian Faith (the Apostles Creed) am obliged to believe the holy Catholic Church.

Prot.

Did not you believe that Article before you was a Catholic?

Cath.

I thought indeed at that time that I had believed it; but I have found since that I only thought so.

Prot.

It seems then, you do not think that I believe this Article, as well as you.

Cath.

I am sure that by vertue of this Article you are not obliged to be a Protestant.

§. 2.

Prot.

Perhaps we do not agree in the sence of this Article.

Cath.

It may well be so: therefore for a tryal give me leave to propose a few Questions to you.

Prot.

Ask what you please.

Cath.

First then, when you say you believe the holy Catholic Church, do you not believe this Church to be one Body, as St. Paul expresly

teaches, saying, There is one Body, one Spirit, as there is one Hope of our calling, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all, &c. Ephes. 4. 4. 5. 6. and as we profess in the following Creeds of the Church.

Prot.

Yes, I believe the true Catholic Church of Christ to be one Body.

§. 3.

And do you not further believe, that this Church of Christ shall continue one Body till the end of the world?

Prot.

Yes doubtless; for otherwise the time might come, in which this Article of our Faith should be false: and also Christ's promise [That the Gates of Hell should never prevail against his Church] should fail.

§. 4.

Cath.

In professing such a Belief of this Article, do you not also intend thereby to acknowledg your self a Member of this one Ca∣tholic Church?

Prot.

Yes, without doubt.

Cath.

You cannot surely think it a matter indifferent whether you be a Member of this one Church, or not?

Prot.

No, by no means: On the contrary I acknowledg, that whosoever is separated from this one Church of Christ, and dies in that separation, cannot be saved.

§. 5.

Cath.

Thus far then we both agree. Let us further, if you please, consider, what a Church in general is, I mean a Christian Church?

Prot.

I conceive it to be a Society of Men and Women publicly professing that Religion which they believe to have been taught by Christ.

§. 6.

Cath.

But every Society thus professing, is it thereby the same Church which we are taught to believe in the Creed?

Prot.

It is at least a part of that Church.

Cath.

Are then Societies of Heretics and Schismatics part of that one Church, since they also profess the Religion which they believe to have been taught by Christ?

Prot.

No: For they cut themselves off from this one Church, either by inventing New and false Doctrines, which renders them Heretics, that is, Chusers of a new Faith: Or by disobeying the Lawful Commands of this one Church, which renders them Schismatics, that is, Rebels.

§. 7.

Cath.

Can any Society be called one Body, or Corporation, unless it be united by common received Laws and Governors?

Prot.

I now begin to perceive whither you would lead me, There∣fore

I must advise well lest I engage my self too far by an hasty an∣swer to this Question.

Cath.

Sir it is not Victory, but truth we now regard. Therefore speak not of being engaged, but freely recal any Answer you have, or shall give, if you find cause. And as for the present Question, con∣sider well what that is which makes a Society, as a Kingdom, a Pro∣vince, an Army, a City, a Corporation to become one Body. Is it not an Obligation imposed on those who live respectively in any of these, to be subject to the peculiar Government and Laws there e∣stablished? This appears plainly, in that wheresoever any one obsti∣nately refuses such submission, he is esteemed and treated as a Rebel, a Fugitive, an outlawed person, and utterly deprived of all Pri∣viledges and emoluments belonging to the said Body.

Prot.

This cannot be denyed.

Cath.

Apply this then to God's Church. St. Paul says expresly, it is one Body: your Creed obliges you to call it One: The Scripture com∣pares it to a City at Unity in it self: and to a well ordered Army with Banners, under which all Soldiers are reduced in their ranks, ex∣pecting the Generals command, signifyed by subordinate officers. Such a society is Gods Church: It is the Kingdom of Christ, which if once divided cannot stand. But by his promise it (and no other Kingdom besides it) shall stand for ever; and therefore it shall never be Divi∣ded, but all its members shall continue in their order. Now what makes such Order; but obedience to Government and Laws? Can you Imagine any other, excluding this?

Prot.

I must confess, I cannot, For it is plain, that where every one will be a Law to himself, there can be no Order nor Unity, no∣thing but confusion and endless Divisions.

Cath.

Hence it follows then, that the Church must necessarily con∣sist of Teachers and Disciples, of Governors and Subjects.

Prot.

That is granted.

Cath.

And consequently, that it is a Visible Society.

Prot.

True: for otherwise none will be able to know whom, or what, to obey: No Society can be invisible to the members of it: and it is not a Society, if the Governors or Teachers in it be invisible, and the Laws unknown.

§. 8.

Cath.

By whom have these Teachers and Governors been ap∣pointed in the Church?

Prot.

St. Paul informs us, Epes. 4. 11. 12. 13. saying, Christ gave some Apostles, and some Prophets, and some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the Mini∣stery, for the edifying of the Body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the Faith and of the knowledg of the Son of God unto a perfect man, &c. So also we read in the Epistle to the Hebrews, No man taketh this honour to himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. Heb. 5. 4.

§. 9.

Cath.

This being so, are not they who are Disciples in Gods Church, obliged in conscience to believe their Teachers, and Sub∣jects to obey their Governors?

Prot.

Yes, without doubt: But yet with this condition, that these Teachers teach truth, and these Governors command lawful things.

Cath.

But is every Subject to be a Iudg whether the Doctrine taught him be true, and the thing commanded lawful?

Prot.

The Scripture is to be Judg between them.

Cath.

Indeed that which you say would be to some purpose, if the Scripture could speak and answer the Readers Questions and Doubts, as we two can do to one another. But the Scripture being only a Writing, and by consequence incapable of interpreting its own mean∣ing whensoever any doubt of its true sence arises, if it may be per∣mitted to every Christian to judg of his Teachers Doctrines by ex∣amining them by Scripture, the Church may as well be without Teachers.

§. 10.

Prot.

I know no remedy: For since it is evident to us, that there is on Earth no visible infallible Guide and Interpreter of Scrip∣ture, we cannot rely upon any Man, or any Society of Men, so as to remain secure that they will not mislead us, either out of ignorance or secular interests. Therefore we must leave to all Christians a judg∣ment of diseretion, to discern by the Light of Gods word, whether their Teachers guide them in the way of Truth, or not. Every one must take the best course he can, not to fall into any dangerous Error. And since Eternity depends upon it, it is not likely that men will wilfully misinterpret Scripture, to their own destruction; especially in Points Fundamental, which are so clearly set down in Scripture, that no sober Enquirer can be mistaken in them.

Cath.

Well, Sir, I have at present done asking Questions, and now (better enabled by what you have said) will endeavor to give you a fuller Answer to the Question you proposed in the begining, viz.

Why are you a Catholick?

§. 11.

First then, Sir, I am a Catholick because I believe that Christ the Author and Finisher of our Faith is infinitely both good, wise and om∣nipotent. His goodness inclined him to come down into this world to save mankind, by establishing a Church upon earth, which should re∣main till the end of the world, and in which the way to Heaven should be so taught, as not only the Wise and Learned, but the Poor, Simple and Ignorant also should by Faith and Obedience be made partakers of Eternal Happiness. Now his goodness having designed this; his wisdom enabled him to appoint ways and means proper to effect that his blessed Design; and omnipotence, to make those means success∣ful.

§ 12.

The general efficacious means to accomplish this, are first, The revealing his whole will to his Church; which we acknowledg to be suf∣ficiently done in Holy Scripture, as to all points absolutely necessary to Salvation, though in all those points not so clearly to every one, that without a Teacher their sense may not be mistaken: Neither doth Scripture make an express discernment of what points are necessary. And secondly, The assisting of this his Church with fidelity and a con∣stant performance of her duty in declaring all necessary Divine Truth manifested to her, to her Subjects; with a command, that all Christi∣ans should obey and submit to what she shall teach or enjoyn them.

God having thus revealed his whole Will to his one Catholic Church, it necessarily and evidently follows. 1. That Ignorance, or Error, in any Points of Christian Doctrine necessary to Salvation, is damnable. 2. That a Seperation from this one Church is damnable also, upon what pretence soever the separation be made.

§. 13.

Now to avoid eternal Misery thus threatned by Error or Schism, only one of these two ways is possible. 1. By ones own light to penetrate into all Mysteries, so as to be most firmly assured of a right understanding of all necessary verities revealed by God in Holy Scrip∣tures. 2. Or out of a distrust of our own abilities to submit our Reason and internal Assent to Authority. The former of these ways, all Sects divided from the Roman Church, and among themselves, do uniform∣ly take, being forced hereto by denying any visible Society of men to have any authority obliging the Consciences of their Subjects: and by conseqence they have all, if any, an equal Title (that is indeed e∣qually none at all) to challenge belief, one as well as another: neither can they rationally, without deserting their common Ground, con∣demn,

or excommunicate one another. The latter way we Catholics on∣ly take, and, as we think, prudently and surely.

§. 14.

For Sir, I beseech you to consider what a busy, laborious task you have undertaken by being a Protestant, of what Sect among them soever you are. Before you can promise to your self any rest of mind in the Peculiar Fundamental Doctrines of your Sect, your Conscience must satisfy you that you have not embraced a Religion by hazard, but after a diligent, sincere and effectual examination of all the Reasons and arguments, not only of Catholicks submitting to Authority, but also of other Sectaries, who proceeding your way of interpreting Scrip∣ture by a private light, do condemn your Doctrines; or whose Do∣ctrines you condemn. To be able to do all this, how many Volums of Controversy are you obliged to read and examine? Besides this, it will be absolutely necessary that you be perfectly studyed in all the Books of Scripture, with the best Commentaries on them, both Ancient and Modern since you ground your Religion upon a sense of Scrip∣ture, which perhaps not any of them will allow, and then in equity you are to examine their reasons for it. Now what one mans age will suffice for all this business, though but in one or two Points contro∣verted, and though the party were learned, and had never so much leasure? What then shall ignorant persons do, who yet make up the greatest number of Christians? What shall Trades-men and Day-La∣bourers do? who can scarce allow from their necessary Vocations a∣ny time at all dayly, even to say their Prayers? yet it concerns all these, upon the venture of Eternal Happiness or Misery, not to forsake or embrace a Religion without a sufficient Examination made by themselves of the grounds of it, since they are told, and believe it, that they must trust to themselves only because no external Authority upon Earth can require from them a submission of their judgment, inasmuch, as according to their general fundamental Positions, no Authority is infallible.

§. 15.

Now whereas you said, That all Fundamental Doctrines of Christianity are so clearly set down in Scripture, that no sober Enquirer can be mistaken in them: If this were true, yet since neither the Scripture, nor you your selves, do clearly express which and how many Do∣ctrines are fundamental, every tittle of Scriptures must be read and ex∣amined by every one of you, for fear a necessary Doctrine should chance to escape you. But to demonstrate the groundlesness of that

your Assertion, I desire you to reflect on the prodigious multiplicity of Sects swarming in this age, all which ground their Belief upon pre∣tended clear Texts of Scripture alone: you will then scarce find one Article of Christian Faith exempted from their Disputes. There are not wanting who deny the Mistery of the Holy Trinity, the Divinity and Incarnation of our Lord, the Divine Personality of the Holy Ghost. Some absolutely deny Freewill, whilst others exalt the power of it so high, as to affirm Divine Grace unnecessary to its best Operations. Some affirm our Nature to be so incurably polluted by Original Sin as that all the best actions of the Regenerate are Mortal Sins; Others will acknowledge no Original Sin at all. Some affirm Baptism necessary to Salvation, even of Infants: Others reject Infant-Baptism: and Cal∣vinists assert, that Infants without Baptism are sanctified by their Pa∣rents faith: and that some Infants dying, though baptized may be damned. Some believe mans Soul to be mortal, and that it perisheth with the Body, not having any Knowledg or Sentiment after death: Some confine God to a determinate place in Heaven, and also deny his Prescience of future Contingents. Lastly some deny an Eternity of tor∣ments in Hell. Surely you will not deny most of these to be contrary to Fundamental Doctrines of our Faith: yet all who maintain these Tenets, and all Sectaries who contradict them, do ground themselves upon express Scripture, which to you seems so clear. You cannot be more confident that you have light on the true sence of Scripture, than they of a contrary sense, and only self-love and selfe-esteem determine both the one and the other.

Can it then be prudence in any man to hazard Eternity upon his own sence of Scripture, the half of which perhaps he never read? Com∣monly a Text or two concludes every point controverted, when per∣haps there are twenty Texts, unconsidered by the Person, which would rectify the sence he gave to the former? Is that Guide to be trusted, which has seduced such infinite Multitudes, opposing, calum∣niating, and hating one another? All Mankind may be witness that this Private Light hath hitherto never been able to confute or un∣decieve one Sect. In a word, is it not in effect an injurious blasphem∣ing of the Goodness, Wisdom and Omnipotence of God to affirm that he has obliged under penalty of damnation all Christians to unity of Faith in all necessary Doctrines; and also that he hath promised to conserve his Church in this Unity to the end of the world: and on the

other side to affirm withal, that the only Means appointed by him to produce this Unity should be a certain Means of destroying Unity, and which, if made use of by all Christians, the gates of Hell would be too strong for him, so that there would scarce be left a Church upon earth.

§. 16.

Truly, Sir, I do not know through what Spectacles you look upon this principle of Protestancy, which hath been indeed the constant Principle of all Ancient-Herities. But to me it appears most horribly gastly, and only fit to be acknowledged the invention of Lucifer, the foul Spirit of Pride and contention, who presents to unwary Christians once more this fruit of the Tree of the knowledg of good and evil, to be aspired to by our own endeavors, and contrary to Gods appoint∣ment.

Since therefore (as hath been said) there are but those two ways to arrive at the knowleg of Divine Mysteries contained in Scripture (yet so contained as that the Texts in which they are contained are sub∣ject to be miss-understood) viz. First, A man's own private Reason: And Secondly, Authority of Superiors by Gods appointment placed in his Church: All the Reason▪ I have enforces me to chuse this latter way, because thereby I shall avoid inconstancy, otherwise unavoi∣dable: as I am taught by St. Paul, who sayes, Eph. 4. 11, 12, &c. That therefore God placed in his Church Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers for the edification of the Body of Christ: a Succession of which is to last till we all meet in the Unity of Faith, &c. This Al∣mighty God did, says he, To the end we should not be like children, wa∣vering, and carried about with every wind of Doctrine, through the wicked∣ness of men, and cunning of such as would circumvent us with errour: the only remedy whereof, in the Apostles judgment, is, submission to Authority. To which submission also I am obliged by an express com∣mand of God [Obedite praepositis vestris, &c.] Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that are set over you, and submit your selves, for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account—And Reason thus divinely enlightned, obliging me to submit to Authority, I should renounce the same Reason utterly, if I should not prefer that Society which (by an evident Suc∣cession from the foresaid Apostles and Pastors) makes the best claim thereto; yea, which alone claims an Authority obliging the Consci∣ence, and that is the Catholics Church; the Authority whereof is evi∣dently the greatest in the world. For though all divided Sects pre∣ume to contend with her for Truth of Doctrines, challenging that to

themselves; yet there is not any one of them which dares assume to themselves that eminence of Authority which manifestly appears in her. And you may know this Catholio Church from others, because it only challengeth an universal and absolute, not conditional Obedience; and you may know the Sons of it by their professing to give to the Church∣es Authority such Obedience.

§. 17.

Now, Sir, consider how agreeable to Gods goodness and wis∣dom, how suitable to humane capacities, how helpful to mens neces∣sities is this way of grounding our Faith on Gods Word as interpreted by the Catholic Church. The far greatest part of Christians are too weak to maintain Disputes: yet God loves the Poor and Ignorant, at least, as well as he does the Rich and Learned; and takes care to bring them to Happiness without Learning, sharpness of wit, curiosi∣ty, and study of knowledg. Consequently he has chalked out a way to Heaven, in which the Ignorant and Simple may walk securely: And in what other way can these walk, but in that of obedience to Au∣thority? This doubtless is that way foretold by the Prophet, Isa. 35. 8. saying in Christs Kingdom, There shall be a high way—and it shall be called a holy way. No polluted person shall pass through it. This shall be [to Christians] a streight way, so that Fools shall not err in it.

Now have Sectaries found out this streight way in which Fools cannot err? Sectaries, I say, who have framed a confused Labyrinth, in which there are a thousand cross paths and windings, where every one wan∣ders, as it were, with a dark Lanthorn in his hand, and either stumbles into, or phantastically chuses such a path as at the present pleases him best, and leaves it also when he thinks good, not taking direction from any other, or not much caring for such directions. By this means we see how that not only Fools and Ignorant, but even the most Judicious a∣mongst Sectaries, following their own light, do walk all their lives, in quite contrary ways, yet all believing that God by the Scripture directs them.

§. 18.

Manifest therefore it is, that Gods way being only one holy, streight High-way, not any Sectaries, but all and only Catholics have been by Almighty God brought into it: In as much as they, distrusting the dim Light of their own Reason for discerning the Verities of Faith contested, borrow the Churches Light: thus exercising Christian Hu∣mility, in not presuming upon their own Abilities; and Christian Obe∣dience, in submitting to the Guidance of those Teachers and Governors

whom God hath placed over them, and who are to give an account of their souls, These Heavenly Virtues are, and have always been equally pra∣ctised by both Ignorant Catholics out of necessity, and by the most Learned out of Duty: Yea, those glorious Lights of Gods Church, the holy Fathers and ancient Doctors, though they were Fathers and Do∣ctors to others, yet to the Church herself they were humble Children and Disciples, learning only from her, and teaching others only what they had learnt from her. This surely is a streight High-way, and a Holy way too: and whil'st the most Simple among Catholicks walk in this way, they have an incomparable advantage in light a∣bove the most Learned of those which trust to their private light. For they are guided by all the lights; that is, by the whole Body of those which God hath constituted Teachers in his Church in all ages; and by consequence they are exempted from an Obligation of ex∣amining particular Controversies, which their Teachers duty is to ex∣amine for them.

§. 19.

Neither is it natural Reason alone which directs us to perfer so eminent Authority before our own simple judgments, but (as hath been said) a Divine Light also appearing in Scripture, and in constant Ecclesiastical Tradition, the best and safest Interpreter of Scripture. There we find the Church called, The Pillar and Ground of truth; a City at one in it self, and set upon a Hill which cannot be* 1.1 hid. There we read, That every Tongue which shall rise against her in Iudgment, she shall condemn: that Gentiles* 1.2 shall come to her light, and Kings to the brightness of her* 1.3 Rising: And that the nation and Kingdom which will not serve her, shall perish. There we shall find, that the least Supream Tri∣bunal on earth to determine Controversies amongst Christians is the Church, whom whosoever will not hear, is to be esteemed as a Heathen and a Publican; such an unappealeable Autho∣rity* 1.4 has God established in this Church. And by vertue of this Authority, General Councils representing the whole Body of Church Governors; challenge from all Christians a submission, not only of Non-contradiction, but also of internal Assent, under Penalty of Anathema; which assent we willingly and joyfully yield by vertue of Christs promises, That he will lead his Church into all Truth, Jo. 16. 13. and so preserve her in an uniform Profession of Truth, that the Gates of Hell shall never be able to prevail against her; Mat. 16. 18. which Gates

of Hell are by the interpretations of the Fathers, Heresies.

§. 20.

These irrefragable grounds from Prudence and Scripture have we Catholics for directing our Faith: On the other side, not one single Text of Scripture, nay moreover, not one quotation can be pro∣duced out of any one of the holy Fathers, which may rationally in∣courage a Christian to prefer his own sence of Scripture before that of the Church; whereas whole Books have been written by them of the Churches unity, authority, indefectibility and universality. Now Sir, who can resist, who can hold out against such a Battery?

Prot.

Well Sir, how prevalent soever this Discourse may seem to you to be against us, whom you style Schismatics, it will prove of lit∣tle advantage to you Roman Catholics; for although we grant, that there is but one Catholic Church, out of which there is no Salvation, yet this does not prove the Roman to be this Church: the Roman, I say, which is but a particular Church, and she being (as we are perswad∣ed) guilty of teaching and practising many false Doctrines, and ma∣nifold Superstitions and Idolatry, we cannot with a safe conscience have any communion with her.

§. 21.

Cath.

Sir, this is the ordinary artifice of your Protestant Writers, when they are pressed with the guilt of those unpardonable crimes of (Heresie and) Schism, to impute to the Church many Errors and sinful Practices, in which, foresooth, their tender consciences dare not joyn. This they do, to the end they may be dispenced withal from clearing themselves from Schism, till after a full discussion of all other Controversies touching differences about any particular Errors supposed to be in the Church; which discussion cannot be un∣dertaken by one in a thousand, considering mens general incapacity; and if undertaken by the Learned, would scarce ever have an end.

But this is most unreasonable, because though it were true, that the Church from which they separated were indeed guilty of teaching Errors, yet are Protestants justly and unanswerably charged with Schism in a high degree, in as much as they remain divided, not from the Roman only, but all Patriarchal and all other Churches existent before their Separation: So that if there be such a Crime as Schism, they are manifestly guilty of it: and by consequence it would be damnable in any one to joyn in their Communion. To make this charge good against them, it will be fully sufficient to al∣ledg the confession of all Christians, (and of themselves (also

viz. That there always has been, is, and shall ever re∣main* 1.5 a Holy Catholic Church of Christ on Earth, from which* 1.6 Separation, upon any pretence whatsoever, is damnable. This Church therefore (wheresoever it is) was in being when they divided from the Roman; and can they pretend that they are Members of this Church? There is not a Society in the world older than theirs, or other than the Roman Church, with which they en∣tertain any communion at all, to whose consession of Faith they will subscribe, and to whose Laws and Government they will submit, but on the contrary condemn its Doctrines, Laws and Government. The consciousness of this, forced the principal Patriarch of Schism, Calvin, to profess that himself and his followers* 1.7 separated from the whole world.* 1.8

Now it being impossible for Protestants to excuse, much less to justifie their manifest Schism, to what purpose is it to en∣ter into debate with them about particular Points of Doctrine? As long as the charge of Schisin subsists, uncleared by them, and this Schism grounded on pretended dangerous Errors in the Catholic Church, being Schismatics they are Heretics too, and so condemned by themselves and consequently not to be hearkned to, when they would raise particular controversies, since this one general controversie determines against them all particular debates.

§. 22.

Schism

therefore, in its lowest qualification, considered only as disobedience to lawful Ecclesiastical Authority, being, even in the judgment of learned Protestants, a most horrible Sin, a tearing in pieces the Mystical Body of Christ: There are one or two special Aggravations which extreamly heighten the heinousness of it in Pro∣testants, (I mean those Reformers abroad, and antiently in Scotland, Calvinists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anabaptists, &c.) They were once Members of the Roman-Catholic-Church, which they then esteemed to be that Church, which they believed in the Creed. It hapned that their Prime Patriarchs, Luther, Calvin, Zwinglius, &c. ha∣ving conceived some discontent either against the Governors, or some prevailing party in that Church which obstructed their profits, or a∣gainst the Laws of it, which restrained their lusts after Women, grew angry, and began to quarrel with the Church her self, and to study to disgrace her, for which purpose the readiest way was to find fault with her Doctrines: Then Pride and revenge inspiring them, against

these they made objections, yet not so oft against the Churche's own Doctrines as the Tenents of particular Catholick Writers, and most oft they directed their most bitter Invectives against personal mis∣carriages, for all which the Church must be answerable: And after all this publishing Liberty from Laws which restrained Concupiscence, they quickly found Favorites and Followers: thus Sects were first composed. But if there had been in any of them either Humility or Love of Peace, in case they had been perswaded there had been Er∣rors in the Church her self, to which they could not subscribe, they would not thereupon separate themselves from Her, but submit pa∣tiently to her Censures, which she should lay upon them. If her Cen∣sures were just, they would have no reason to complain; If unjust, God would reward them for their Patience and love of Peace.

§. 23.

They were no sooner separated, but they heaped on the Church all the most despightful reproaches and Calumnies they could invent, and to heighten their Criminal Schism to the uttermost, they formed New Societies which they called Churches, and therein esta∣blished New Pastors, and a New Ecclesiastical Ministry: (the very Sin for which God commanded the Earth to swallow Core, Dathan and Abiron.) Amongst the Gifts which our Lord when he led captivity captive, received from his Father, and bestowed on his Church, the principal Gift mentioned by St. Paul, was his constituting therein A∣postles, Pastors, and Teachers to continue to the end of the world by a legitimate Succession. There is not the least intimation given in Scripture or Tradition, that this Succession should ever be interrupted: Yet as if it had quite ceased and been annulled, these Reformers, without any Warrant, usurp a Power to take all Authority out of the hands of those to whom our Saviour had given it, and to bestow it according to their own pleasure, thus making a total reversement of the whole frame of Gods Church (as far as lyes in their Power) through the whole World. If Christ himself had thus, without testi∣fying his Authority by Miracles, dealt with the Iewish Synagogue, he would not have expected belief, nor been able to answer that Questi∣on proposed to Him, By what authority dost thou these things, and who gave thee this Authority? Luke. 20. 2. Yet all this our late Reformers have done without ever pretending to one Miracle. Into whatever place they come through the whole earth, they, as far as their Secu∣lar power extends, degrade and chase away all Bishops, Priests and

Pastors, professing the Catholic Religion, they take Authority to de∣fame them as false Pastors, and true Wolves; they denounce Anathe∣mas against them, they incite their Subjects to rebel, defraud and persecute them, as if God had given his iron Rod into the hands of these Gladiators, and conferred on them the ends of the earth for their inheritance.

No man takes his Power of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction but he that is called, as was Aaron. Heb. 5. 4. Who called these men to the Office of Preaching and governing Christians? Who invested them with such Authority? If we consult their own Stories, we shall find the prime Ministers in the principal Cities of France, constituted and consecra∣ted by hands of the basest sort of Tradesmen. There have not been nor even now are wanting among them several sensual Priests, (once they had a Bishop) Apostates from the Catholic Church, whom they might employ in the Office of Preaching and Praying in their Synago∣gues, and by that means make a shew, that some of their Ministers were indeed Clergymen, who had an ordinary Vocation. But such ha∣tred they bear to all Ecclesiastical Order, that even these shall not be admitted into the Presbytery without renouncing their former ordinary Vocation, and receiving their Commission, by a New imposition of hands of Lay-Ministers. In a word, I should weary both you and my self, if I should enumerate all the enormities of your first Reformation. If you have a mind, you may receive sufficient information in a late Book written in French, the Title whereof is (in English) Legitimate Prejudgments against Calvinists; in which the* 1.9 learned Author demonstrates by several titles, as by what appeared exteriourly in the life of the first Reformers by want of Mission; by the evidence of their being guilty of Schism; by their temerity most prodigious in their presumption to establish a New Ecclesiastical Ministry; by the Spirit of calumny and injustice which generally actuates them; by their peculiar most monstrous Doctrines taught by them; by their ridiculously impossible way of instructing their Disciples in Christian verities, &c. By these Marks I say he shews that they do not deserve to be admitted to an examina∣tion of their Pretended Reform'd Religion, being manifestly prejudged and self condemned.

§. 24.

Prot.

But surely, Sir, you will not apply this to the Re∣formed Church of England, and particularly that charge concerning

the want of Lawful Pastors. We have been far from making a breach in the Chain of Succession, since if there be lawful Pastors in the Ro∣man Church, we have the like in the English, in as much as we receiv∣ed our Ordinations from Rome.

Cath.

For as much as concerns your Ordinations, I will not here enter into any dispute, neither indeed is it needful: But this I may confidently say, That since English Protestants have (especially of late,) by many tokens shewed that they esteem Calvinists, or Presby∣terian Congregations to be true, though not so perfect, Members of Christs Church, as themselves; the English Church, I may say justifies, but however, qualifies or excuses that horrible defect in them of want of Ordinations and lawful Mission, and thereby involves her self in their guilt. Again though it were true, that the English Clergy have re∣ceived their Ordinations from the Roman Catholic Church, yet sure I am, that Church never released them from their Canonical subjection to their Superiors, particularly to their Patriarch and Supream Pastor of Gods Church: She never gave them power to change the order of ad∣ministring Sacraments; to reverse Ordinances of Superior Councils; to expel Catholic Bishops from their Sees, meerly because they were Ca∣tholics; In a word, she never gave them authority to alter, or rather destroy, the whole Religion, in a manner, professed in England since they were first Christians. If English Bishops have received their Cha∣racter from Rome, yet not Iurisdiction; or if that also, yet certain it is, that the same Church which gave them Iurisdiction, can also upon their demerits, and exercising it contrary to her intention, suspend the administration of it; which suspension is no doubt implyed in her condemnation of all their Innovations. To be brief, the English Church challenging Ordination by lawful Succession, is thereby obliged to acknowledg the Roman Church, to be at least a true Member of the Catholic Church, (and consequently her self no such Member) un∣less the Bishops here will confess themselves to be Anti-Catholic Bi∣shops, and yet most unreasonably pretend an Union with the Catholic Church.

§. 25.

Prot.

She does in deed acknowledg the Roman to be a Member, but a corrupt Member of the Catholic Church.

Cath.

Consider, Sir, I pray you, that the Rule of Faith obligeth us to believe the Church of God to be Holy as well as Catholic. Now if the Universal Church be Holy or uncorrupt, then is every Member of

it, as far as in its Communion, Holy and uncorrupt also. Which Holi∣ness does not regard the persons, whether Governors or Subjects; for in the first and best Church of all, consisting of the Apostles and Dis∣ciples of our Lord only, there was a Iudas and a Nicolas: A Church is said to be Holy, when it teaches Truth and Holiness: So is the Uni∣versal Church Holy and so is every Member, in its Communion; Since that which makes it a Member in its Communion, is its agreement with the whole in Doctrines taught by it, both regard∣ing Faith and Manners. And from hence it follows, that to ascribe Error and Corruption to any Church which is acknowledged a Mem∣ber of the Catholic Church, and for such pretended Errors to break off Communion with it, is to do the same to the Universal Church, and consequently to contradict an Article of Faith.

Now that this is the condition of the English-Church, is manifest. For since all Christians are under pain of damnation obliged to live in Communion with the Universal Church, by being obedient to it's Laws and Governors; as also to believe, that this Universal Church, is at this day extant, where can an English Protestant hope to find this Church, if not in the Roman Communion? In the Greek-Church he will find the same Doctrine, which in the Roman he calls dangerous Errours, as, (besides the confession hereof by several Protestant Authors formerly) hath been of late, beyond all gainsaying, evidenced by the indefatigable industry of* 1.10 Monsieur Arnaud in his two late Replies to Claude a Cal∣vinist Minister, from the Authentick Testimonials and De∣clarations* 1.11 both of several late Synods, and of many Eccle∣siastical Persons of eminency, both in the present Greek and other Eastern Churches. And besides these he will find other Doctrins which we all condemn as Heresies. Then for pretended Corruptions in practice, the same practices which he stiles Superstitious and Idolatrous (principally touching the Blessed Sacrament) he will find in the Greek Church far more distastful to him. And as for other Eastern Sects, besides the same Practises, he will find himself obliged, if in Communion with any of them, to assent to Ancient, Univer∣sally condemned Heresies, Nestorianism, Eutychianism, Monotheli∣tism, &c.

§. 26.

Prot.

But no doubt, God hath his Elect Servants among them all, who are truly Orthodox, as we are: with whom we may be said to be united in Spirit.

Cath.

Truly Sir, this is a meer pittiful dream to talk of Communion in spirit with hidden Christians, to you invisible, as you are also to them. This renders all the Discourses of the Holy Fathers touching the Church∣es Visibility and Unity utterly impertinent. Yea this evacuates the Pre∣dictions of all Gods ancient Prophets, foretelling the Extent, Glory and Victories of the Kingdom of the Messias: and it makes void the Pro∣mises of our Saviour touching his Church. What meaning therefore can you frame to your self, when you say, You acknowledg a perpetually existent Catholic Church, and a necessity imposed on all Christians to live in her Communion?

§. 27.

Pr.

We acknowledg our selves in Communion with all Christian Societies, as far as they teach Truth, and practise according to Christs Law.

Cath.

So you may be said to communicate with Iews, Turks and Insidels: for some Truths are taught by all these, and some of their practises are lawful. But is this such a Communion as the Church Ca∣tholic anciently, or as the First four General Councils required? It is manifest that at the time of your first Separation there was not one So∣ciety of Christians in the world to whose Profession of Faith you would subscribe, in whose Religious Worship you would joyn, and by whose Laws you would be governed: So that all Christians then liv∣ing and visible in the World, were to you as Heathens and Publicans; and you the very same to them. Were your first Reformers in Com∣munion with them? Certainly you will not say, that the Roman, Grecian, and Oriental Churches, though they will not deny but you teach some Truths and sometimes practise virtues, do live in your Communion, that is, That Persons mutually excommunicating one another, do at the same time live in one Communion, or that Pastors live in Communion with those who renounce Obedience to them, and abhorr the Faith taught by them.

§. 28.

P.

Why, Sir, would you have us allow such a way of Communion, as you seem to understand, to Societies which we firmly believe do teach damnable Errours, and enjoyn Idolatrous or Superstitious Practises?

Cath.

No Sir, by no means. But since there is on earth a visibly holy Catholic Church, placed as a City upon a Hill, with which you must, under pain of damnation, communicate in such a manner as Christians did in the time of the first four General Councils, I adjure you not to rest where you now are, in Schism, from all visible Churches preceding your Separation, but to find Her out; and having found

her out, to depose an overweening conceit of your own abilities to censure and condemn her Doctrines, and with Christian Humility to submit your self entirely to her Guidance, by which means you will be sure to find rest of mind.

§. 29.

Prot.

This seems to me a task too hard to be undertaken.

Cath.

That which makes it seem so hard to you is, perhaps, a se∣cret whisper of Nature and self-love, telling you, that this may expose you to many worldly disadvantages: or if not this, a strong prejudice by education deeply imprinted in your mind against the Roman Church, the condemning and reviling of which is the subject of most Books you read, and of most of the discourses and Sermons you hear. I name the Roman Church, because I am perswaded, that if you should happen to entertain any Doubts of the security of the Grounds of Pro∣testant Religion, it would not be the Grecian, nor any of the other Ori∣ental Churches, whose Religion you would put in the scales against it, but only the Roman, from whence you had your Christianity, your Church her subsistence, and within the Limits and Iurisdiction of whose Patriarch you live. Do I not judg aright?

Prot.

Yes.

§. 30.

Cath.

Then, Sir, though at present you should have no doubts of any Doctrines taught by your Church, or rather in it (for your self will not allow her the Title of an authentic Teacher, neither does she challenge it) yet since you have voluntarily fixed your self in such a Church, which, not pretending to an infallible direction from God, can∣not with any shew of reason tell you, that you are bound in conscience to believe any one of her Doctrines, nor that it is a sin for you to leave her Communion, and to chuse that of any other Society which you may like better, (for then all Christians should, as well as you, be obliged to joyn themselves to the English Church only:) Endeavour, I beseech you, with a mind as disinteressed as may be, to hearken to what may be alledged for the Right which the Roman Church has to challeng your Obedience, so as that the refusal of such Obedience would be an heinous Sin. For this Right indeed She challenges, and She alone: No other ancient Church hath, and no par ticular Sect doth, or can pretend to it.

Prot.

I am content.

§. 31.

Cath.

First then consider, that the very challenging of such a Right which belongs only to the truly Catholic Church, is a strong

proof that She alone is that Church which hath a Right to challenge it, and would prove her self a false Church if She did not challenge it. But because perhaps you cannot easily induce your mind to consider her otherwise than as a particular Church, I confidently believe, that if the Eastern Church were united in one Body with the Western, you would not find any difficulty to think your self obliged to yield an entire Obedience to so great an Authority.

Prot.

This I willingly acknowledg.

§. 32.

Cath.

Be pleased then to reflect on some Age, when these two great Churches were united: for example, in the days of St. Gre∣gory the Great. Then there was a perfect agreement through the whole World, excepting only the Societies of Ancient Heretics, acknowledg∣ed for such by Protestants. Then both Doctrine and Discipline was uniform every where. What St. Gregory taught was accepted through the whole Church: Yea those parts of his Writings which are most op∣posite to your Doctrines (as his Dialogues &c.) have presently after his time been translated into the Greek tongue and with veneration received by that Church: Whence will follow, that what he hath taught us in his Writings, touching Points of Religion, and which you most mislike, was then esteem'd true Catholic Doctrine. Now what does St. Gregory teach but the same which is now taught in the Roman Church? In all Controversies lately raised between Catholics and Pro∣testants, he is constantly and directly against Protestants.

This is so manifest, that it is acknowledged by many learned Protes∣tants,* 1.12 who describing the particular Points of Religion professed by St. Gregory (and St. Augustine the Monk, sent by him to convert England) name these, Freewill, Merit and Iustification of Works, Pen∣nance, Satisfaction, Purgatory, Celibacy of Priests, publick Invocation of Saints, and Worshipping of them, Veneration of Images, Exorcisms, Par∣dons, Vows, Monachism, Transubstantiation, Prayer for the Dead, Oblation of Christ's Body and Blood for the Dead, the Roman Bishop's Iurisdiction over all Churches, Celebration of Mass, Consecrations of Churches, Altars, Chalices, Corporals and Fonts of Baptism, Veneration of Relicks, Sprinkling of Holy-Water, Dedicating Churches to the Bones and Ashes of Saints, Indulgencies to such as visit Churches on certain days, Pilgrimages, and in a word, the whole Chaos of Popish Supersti∣tion, as they are pleased to stile it. So that Mr. Ascham affirms of* 1.13 our Apostle St. Augustine the Disciple of St. Gregory, that He was the

overthrower of true Religion, and the establisher of all Popish Doctrines▪ and another saith of him, That he subjected England to the lust of Anti∣christ,* 1.14 (which Antichrist you must take for granted, was St. Gregory) and therefore after his death, went undoubtedly to Hell, there to receive his reward. Thus evident Convictions forced them to confess that all the Doctrines of Faith now taught, were then professed as Catholic Doctrines: but gall and malice against the Church, suggested such foul, unseemly words to their Pens.

Notwithstanding Protestant Writers, when, not being engaged in controversie, they have occasion to treat of St. Gregory himself, they are not sparing in their Elogies of him, such as these: He was a* 1.15 holy and a learned Bishop. He was by Name and indeed truly Great, a∣dorned with many and great endowments of Divine Grace, and (as he is often styled) the mouth and shining light of our Lord. He was truly a pious man, and for his Christian humility yet more to be praised. From his Infancy being addicted to the studies of Piety, he retired into a Mona∣stery, where shewing a particular sanctity of life, and being wholly intent upon Prayer, he drew the eyes of all men upon him—He did so discharge the Pontifical Office, that following ages never had his equal much less any one excelling him. He was exceedingly renowned for Miracles, &c.

Now me thinks, Sir, the consent of the Eastern and Western Churches, under the Government of such a Prelate, so versed as he was in holy Scripture (witness his Sermons and Commentaries) should be so pre∣valent with you, as to make you suspect your own Reason, if it sug∣gests to you that the Religion, professed in his days was superstitions and idolatrous.

§, 33.

Prot.

But why do you say, that the Universal Church in the East and West was governd by Saint Gregory, when he himself sharply condemned the Patriarch of Constantinople for assuming such a Title as Universal Bishop, which he calls an Antichristian Title.

Cath.

It was indeed a Title full of arrogance, and therefore justly condemned by St. Gregory in the Notion, in which he conceived it might be understood, as if the Patriarch pretended thereby to be esteemed the only legitimate Bishop in the [Eastern] Church.

For thence it would follow, that all other Bishops were only his Substitutes, acting by his commission, and removeable by him at pleasure: Whereas they claim a reception of their Order and Cha∣racter, immediately from Christ alone. Such a new Title therefore it

was that St. Gregory condemned in that Patriarch, and abhorred to accept himself, as plainly appears by his Epistles. But yet that he had a Superintendence over the whole Church as Supreme Pastor there∣of, to receive and judge Appeals of Bishops from all Parts in causis ma∣joribus; to oblige all Prelates, even Patriarchs, to the Profession of the Faith established in Councils, and the observance of the Churches Laws, and to impose Ecclesiastical Censures on all Transgressors of them, this St. Gregory challenged, and to this the Prelates both of the Western, and Eastern Churches also submitted, as appears by many Epistles sent by him, and Answers received from several Patriarchs, and other Prelates in the East.

§. 34.

Since therefore it is confessedly certain, that the present Roman Church professes the same Religion which Saint Gregory taught and planted in England, which the Eastern Church in those times ap∣proved without any contradiction, and which is now condemned by Protestants; it will evidently follow, that in those few Points in which the present Eastern Churches quarrel with the Roman, the said Eastern Churches only have been Innovators; and consequently that the Roman Church (that is, all Churches united in subordination to the Prime Patriarch and Pastor) still remains the Catholic Church, and enjoys the same Authority which the Universal Church in, and be∣fore, St. Gregories days enjoyed: So that all Christians who break from her Communion, do thereby shew themselves Schismaticks, and Self-condemned.

§. 35.

I have purposely made choice to instance in the time of St. Gregory the Great, because on the one side several Protestants im∣pute the beginning of the Churches depravation principally to that Age; and on the other side Almighty God, as if he had a design to confute and silence their accusations chose that Age, especially in which to accomplish that most illustrious of all Prophesies, foreshew∣ing the glory of the Catholic Church, which is the Conversion of Na∣tions from Heathenish Idolatry.

The Prophesies themselves are thus expresly set down in the Old Tes∣tament, and acknowledged by Protestants to regard the Christian Church, The Prophet Isai writes thus: Isa. 60. 2, 3. The Lord shall rise upon thee, and his Glory shall be seen upon thee. ver. 5. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and Kings to the brightness of thy rising—ver. 10. The abundance of the Sea shall be converted unto thee: the

forces of the Gentiles, shall come unto thee—ver. 11. The sons of Strangers shall build thy walls, and their Kings shall minister unto thee. ver. 14. Thy Gates shall be open continually, that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and their Kings may be brought—All they that despise thee, shall bow themselves at the soles of thy feet, and they shall call thee, The City of the Lord—ver. 22. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong Nation. Again, Isai. 49. 23. Kings shall be thy nursing Fathers, and Queens thy nursing Mothers. And again Isai. 39. 21. This is my Covenant with them, saith the Lord, My Spirit which is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy Seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever. Also the Kingly Prophet, Psal. 11. 8. I will give thee the Heathen for thine Inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession. This Kingdom, (saith the Prophet Daniel) Shall not be given over to another people, but shall stand for ever, Dan. 11. 44. These are Gods Promises to his Church, so acknowledged by Protestants.

Now it is manifest out of Ecclesiastical History, that these Prophe∣cies began not, in a signal manner, to be accomplished, till the days of Saint Gregory. For during the first three hundred years, the Church was wholly under Persecution, and was encreased chiefly by sufferings. In the next three hundred years, the Emperour Con∣stantine being converted to Christianity, there were but few other Kings Foster-fathers of the Church; And besides this, several of the Em∣perours, and some Kings during that space, turned Arians and Apos∣tates from the Catholic Faith. But from Saint Gregories time till Lu∣ther, it is incredible almost what we read of the Conversion of Na∣tions and Kingdoms, and of the wonderful Piety and zeal of (once Barbarous) Kings and Queens, assoon as they had embraced the Ca∣tholic Faith. Which Conversions were generally made by the fervor, care, and authority first of St. Gregory himself; as England can, but most ungratefully will not, as becomes her, witness; and next of St. Gregories Successors, Bishops of Rome.

§. 36.

Now, Sir, consider the force of illgrounded prejudices. Several Protestants, though they saw all the formentioned Prophesies perfectly fulfilled by Catholic Missioners, yet out of the pre-assumed hatred to Catholic Religion, they will not acknowledg the forsaking Idols and worship of Devils, and the embracing of the Catholic Faith

to be a Conversion, but rather a Perversion, and therefore wonder that they do not to this day see those Prophecies accomplished, which were made above two thousands years since, In so much as Castalio Professes, The more I do peruse the Scriptures, the less do I find these Pro∣mises* 1.16 performed, howsoever they are to be understood. David George, a Protestant living at Basil, upon the same grounds became a Blasphe∣mer of Christ, whom he called a Seducer. Bernardin Ochin turned an Apostate, denying they Divinity of Christ. Adam Neuserus, a Calvinist Professor at Heydelberg, turned Turk, and was circumcised at Constantinople. Alemannus likewise renouncing Christianity became a blasphemous Iew. And the principal motive of all these horrible changes, was an opinion that these Prophecies were false Dreams, or impudent inventions of Sectaries, and never fulfilled, because forsooth not fulfilled in a Church of their Reformed Religion, which Reform'd Religion never banished Pagan Idolatry out of one Village. Some conversions indeed of their own particular mode they have made, for by seditions they have banished Catholic Religion out of several pla∣ces. And particularly the Hollanders may brag, that they have con∣verted the great Empire of Iapan from the Catholic Faith to its pri∣stine most execrable Idolatries; to effect which, they have procured the most cruel murder of near four hundred thousand Catholic Mar∣tyrs, themselves in the mean time renouncing the open Profession of Christianity.

§. 37.

Notwithstanding the truth is, the wonderful Conversions of Nations in former and later times also, by Catholick Missioners, have been so illustrious, that very many of the soberer Protestant Writers have highly exalted their zeal and unwearied deligence in their Apos∣tolical functions, and glorified God for it: being forced hereto by the many undeniable Miracles wrought by them.

Yet the pleasant cunning of one Luther an Writer is very remarkable: his name is Dr. Philip Nicolai, who having written a Book on this* 1.17 very Argument, to wit, the fulfilling of the fore-cited Prophesies, touching the Conversion of Nations, is forced to alledg the examples not only ancient, as of the Saxons, Frisons, Danes, Germans, &c. con∣verted by Catholic Bishops and Priests; but later also, as of innume∣rable People in the East and West-Indies, reduced from Idols to Christi∣anity by Iesuits and other Religious Missioners; and to acknowledge likewise that God testified the Doctrine preached to them, by stupen∣dious

Miracles. All this, this Lutheran confesses; but then with a turn, he deprives Catholics of the glory and merit of all their labours, and applies it to his own Sect: for he tells his Readers, that all these Apostolical Preachers, in converting Nations, did Luther anizare; and that the Iesuits in their first converting the Oriental Indians, did shew themselves [not Roman Catholics, but] Lutherans and Evangelicks Might he not have said as well, that Christ's Apostles converted Na∣tions, not as such, but as Lutherans?

§. 38.

Now if these Prophesies be Divine, and have indeed been fulfilled, they have been fulfilled by Catholics only, and consequently Catholic Religion constitutes that Church of Christ to which such glo∣rious Predictions were made. I will therefore here adjoyn the words of St. Augustine, who having alledged out of the Scripture many such Pro∣phesies;* 1.18 concludes thus: Whilst thou holdest thy selffast to these Prophesies, if an Angel from Heaven should say to thee, Leave the Christianity of the whole Earth and chuse the part of the [Shismatic] Donatus, Luther, Calvin, Tindal, &c.] he ought to be to thee Anathema; because he would endea∣vour to cut thee off from the whole, and thrust thee up into one part, so alienating thee from the Promises of God.

§. 39.

These, Sir, among many other, are grounds surely sufficient to justifie the Right which the Roman Church has to merit your Obe∣dience: I beseech you think seriously on them. For mine own part, I do sincerely protest to you, that unless I would renounce all other Guides to eternal Happiness, but an over-weaning Fancie of mine own abilities, or blind passion against all Guides establish'd in Gods Church: if Divine Revelation, consent of Antiquity, manifest Reason, and even experi∣ence by outward Sensation may be fit to guide me, I must not be a Pro∣testant, I must of necessity be a Roman Catholic. For Divine Revelation (interpreted also by consent of Fathers and Councils) informs me, that Christ hath established on Earth a visible Church, which is, one holy and Catholic, the common Mother and only authentick Teacher of all Chris∣tians; that this Church shall remain such to the end of the World: and that whosoever is not a true faithful Member of this Church, is thereby cut off from the Mystical Body of Christ, and shall be eternally separated from Him. Again, evident Reason shews, that no Person, or Society, can be esteemed a Member of any Church any other way, than by believing its Doctrines, and being subject to its Laws and Go∣vernment. In the third place, the testimony of our Senses assures us, that

not any of our Modern Sects do assent to the Doctrines, or are go∣verned by the Laws of any Church at all (and consequently not of the Catholic Church,) which had a being at their first (pretended) Reforma∣tion: therefore upon these grounds it evidently follows, that all the said Sects are manifestly guilty of Schism.

Moreover, since the Roman is that Church of which the first Reform∣ers, once were Members, and by reforming made a separation from it, and since the same Church does constantly profess the same Doctrines which were once held by the Universal Body of Orthodox Christians; and again, since there is not any visible Church upon earth to which all marks of the true Church assigned in Scripture, and by the Holy Fathers, can be so applied, and whereto the Antient Prophecies and the Promises of Christ have been so perfectly accomplished, as the Roman; it will evidently follow, that the present Roman Catholic Church ought to be acknowledged that one Holy Catholic Church, which we confess in the Apostles Creed and by consequence whatsoever Doctrines, in opposition to the Faith professed in this Church, are taught by Protestants, they are thereby, without any particular discussion, legitimately prejudged to be formal Heresies.

Now Heresie and Schism being by all (even by Hereticks and Schis∣maticks themselves) acknowledged most dreadfully wasting Crimes, of which I cannot possibly be guilty whilst I adhere to the Roman Catholic Church, nor avoid the guilt of them by forsaking its Commu∣nion; I conceive I have, without any necessity of engaging in par∣ticular Disputes, given you rational Grounds enabling me to afford a sufficient Answer to the Question first proposed by you, viz.

Why are you a Catholic?

§. 40.

And for a conclusion, Sir, give me leave to tell you, that it will be utterly in vain for you to atempt the avoiding of the [stigmata] brands of Heresie and Schism, by entring into an endless Dispute about particular Controversies, to be stated out of Books: For, till you be able to shew a present Visible, Orthodox Church, the Gover∣nors and Teachers whereof are derived by a continual Succession from the Apostles, which Church in all those Points for which you have se∣parated from the Roman, teaches as you do, and either governs you, or is governed by you; Till this, I say be done, your busying your self about particular Disputes will never produce to you Peace of mind, but rather encrease in you Pride and Malice against others. Your

first most necessary Care therefore must be to establish your self in such a Church as can oblige you to believe her: for by no other way can you (nor your Teachers) avoid Self-condemnation, as mani∣fest Innovators.

There are certain illustrious marks assigned by the holy Scriptures and Fathers, to distinguish the true Catholic Church from Congregati∣ons of Hereticks and Schismaticks, such are Unity; Succession, Uni∣versality, Converting of Nations, Miracles, &c. And these are such marks as are perceptible by the meanest capacities, to the end that none should be excused if they mistake the Church. Now not one of these so visible marks belongs to you; and not one but belongs to the Roman Catholic Church.

§. 41.

When you are urged to shew some signs or marks which might invite any to joyn with you, all you can say is, That you teach* 1.19 truth, and that you duly administer the Sacraments; that is, you would prove your selves to be a true Church, because you say you are a true Church; for (not the marks, but) the essence of a Church consists in teaching Truth, &c. But marks of his Church, easily observable by all men, were appointed by God to lead the Simple as well as the Learned, to dis∣cover that Church which only teacheth Truth, and duly administers his Sacraments. Not any such marks do you pretend to shew, And as for this your miscalled, single Mark, the Unlearned cannot possibly judg, whether you do indeed teach Truth, &c. and the Learned must have spent their whole lives before they can be in a capacity to judg. And though they should be so unhappy as to suffer themselves to be convinced that you do teach Truth, &c. yet till you can fur∣ther demonstrate that you are not guilty of Schism, but that you communicate with that one holy Catholic Church, which you believe in the Creed, it would (notwithstanding all the truth pretended to be taught by you) be a damnable sin in them to communicate with you.

These things considered, since I am confident it is impossible for you to clear this point, I believe you will find an insuperable difficul∣ty to prepare, according to the method observed here, a tolerable general answer, sufficient to vindicate your Church; in case I should by way of exchange, propose to you this Question.

Why are you a Protestant?

Prot.

Judg not, Sir, too hastily. Perhaps at our next meeting

you will hear more than you now expect. In the mean time I thank you for your Charity: And, God willing, I will seriously reflect on what hath been said.

Cath.

Farewel, Sir, and, if you think good, cast your eyes upon this little bundel of Citations out of several ancient Holy Fathers of the Church, who will tell you, that upon the very same grounds, which have been here discoursed on, they were good Christians and Catholics.

Prot.

If they tell me so, I shall not easily contemn what they tell me. Farewel.

Notes

• * 1.1

  1 Tim. 3. 15 Psal. 122. 3.
• * 1.2

  Matt. 5. 14.
• * 1.3

  Isa. 54.
• * 1.4

  Mat. 18. 17.
• * 1.5

  Calvin. Instit.
• * 1.6

  lib. 4. cap. 1.
• * 1.7

  Calvin. Epi.
• * 1.8

  ad Melanct.
• * 1.9

  Prejugez. con. les Cal∣vinists
• * 1.10

  San. Relati∣on pag. 233.
• * 1.11

  Roses his View of Re∣ligion. pag. 4768.
• * 1.12

  Humsr. in Iesuiti••mi part. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 5. Mig. leb. Cent. 6. p. 289. lb. c. 10. p. 748. Cari••••. Chron. lib. 4. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. On∣an••. Epi∣tome cent. 6. Parker Antih. B••it. c. 17.
• * 1.13

  A••ch. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. pro 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Dom. p. 33.
• * 1.14

  Osiand. Epist. p. 290.
• * 1.15

  Whitak. cont. Dur. l. 5. §. 26. Humfr. ad. rat. 5. Godwin in Conv. Brit. c. 4. Magdeb. Cent. 6. c. 10.
• * 1.16

  Castal. in Praefat. Bi∣bli••r. Lat.
• * 1.17

  Philip Ni∣colai de Regno Christi. c. 1. p. 53.
• * 1.18

  Au••. Epist. 165.
• * 1.19

  Calvin. In∣••stit. l. 4. c. 2.