A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was

DISPUTE. III. Between Walter Rosewell and Richard Coppin, in the Cathedral of Rochester, on the eleventh of December.

ROsewell.

I shall not feare this man, though he were never so well armed with gifts to maintaine his damnable er∣rours.

Coppin.

I acknowledge my selfe (as I am a man) to be as the weakest and worst of men, nay, a poor worme, yet strength may be manifest in weaknesse, and wisdome in foolishnesse, For God hath chosen the poor, weak, despised, and base things of the * 1.1 world to confound the wise, and things that are not, to confound the things that are.

And friends and Brethren, I came here as a stranger into those parts, yet through the desires of many of you here present, therefore I am my selfe unacquainted how the actings of men have been, according to the present times, but I am inform'd that some of the chiefest of the Promoters of these Disputes, have been, and are enemies to the present Power; I shall there∣fore desire that the Publike Peace, according to the present Go∣vernment, may be kept and preserved.

Rosewell.

I know you speak something of this to me, as well as others, though you might have spared it; but I confesse you have made a fair speech, as a prepara••••e unto your businesse, but let that passe, I shall begin.

CHAP. VI. That the whole nature of man was sinful, how Christ took our sins with our nature, and offer'd it up with himself without sin to the Father, that he still lives in it in us, and how.

ROsewell.

In the Name of the Lord Jesus, whom you have blasphemed, I shall charge you, and let none be affended that I do begin where I did begin the last day.

Coppin.

Let us not be alwaies on one thing, but if you have a∣ny thing else to say, proceed to that, for Mr. French did speak also the same things which you had spoke before, but the other day.

Rosewell.

You said, I had no more the other day, but you shall find I have enough now; what my Brother French spake the other day, I had no knowledg of, but I think it was unseasonable at that time, and it had been better let alone.

I say, he that from Scripture shall labour to perswade people to be∣lieve that Jesus Christ was a sinner, and that his humane nature was tainted with original sin, he is a perverter of Scripture, a blasphemer of Christ, and a venter of damnable errors and heresies, and on this I do desire to build the future structure, but then there was some things hinted for the undermining of this Proposition. Now if Christ be polluted with sins, then is our preaching vain, and your faith in vain, therefore if I do make this my main Proposition, it will not be impertinent to the businesse, therefore let every one turn to the Bible, they may all see to how little purpose those Scriptures was brought by him the other day: First, this is to pull the Crown from the head of Christ, to say he was a sinner: Secondly, I say it is a perverting of Scripture, and a seting Scripture in opposition against Scripture, 1 Pet. 2. 24. He bear our sins, Heb. 4. 15. He was in all things like us, sin onlie excepted, John 14. 30. The Prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me, If there had been sin in Christ, he could not have withstood the temptation of the devil, 2 Cor. 5. 21. But you see Jesus Christ was made sin for us, that is, he was made a Sin-offering for us; I will appeal to all that's skilled in Tongues, for the same word which is here translated sin, is in Exodus 40. Sin-offering;

where there is a dark saying in the body of the Text, there is a remedy in the side, for it is said, He was made sin for us, which knew no sin in himself: And where Christ is said to bear our sins in his body, it is not in a proper sense, for sin cannot be, and not be, in one and the same person, at one and the same time, as you say, in 1 Pet. 2. 24. He bear our sins, Isa. 53. 6. The Lord hath laid on him the iniquitie of us all: I will grant you in a sound Orthodox sense he may be said to bear our sins, and as his righteousnesse is imputed to us, so is our sins imputed to him: And now I hope I have abundant∣ly satisfied all that are intelligible in making good this Proposi∣tion.

Coppin.

You did say the last Sabbath day in your Sermon, that this day you would make me ashamed ever to shew my face any more in this place (as I was informed) and this is the way in∣deed, for you to take up all the time, and let me have none.

Rosewell.

I do dispair now of ever making you ashamed, but I hope to make your Auditorie ashamed.

Coppin.

Pray give me leave to speak now.

Rosewell.

I will give you rope enough.

Coppin.

You have spent a great deal of time to little purpose, to make good a Proposition, which by me was never denied; for neither you, nor any one else, did ever hear me say, that Christ was a sinner, but was holie, just, and righteous, onlie (as the Scripture saith) he was made sin for us, and did bear our sins in his bodie, which you understand not: But to proceed, let me ask you one question; What flesh and blood was that of man that Christ did take on him? Was it holie flesh, or sinful flesh?

Rosewell.

I say that the flesh and blood of man, for the substance of it, which Christ took, was holie; now Christ took our nature, but not our pollutions.

Captain Smith.

Sir, I conceive that Mr. Coppin hath given you satisfaction to this Proposition in the last Dispute, therefore if you have any thing else Mr. Rosewell, you may please to go on.

Rosewell.

I do but prove now that Christ did not take our polluti∣ons, Luke 2. 35. That Holie thing that shall be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God, he took the nature of a Vir∣gin.

Coppin.

Was the nature of the Virgin Mary without sin when

Christ took it on him, in that she was a Virgin, if it were, then in what sense was she called a Virgin.

Rosewell.

In that she did never know man.

Coppin.

And so there are thousands in the world that may be Virgins, upon that account, as not knowing man, and yet be ne∣ver the lesse sinful, for all have sinned, therefore you say you know not what.

Rosewell.

Pray take heed of his Juggles.

Coppin.

If man was a sinner, and the nature of man which Christ took on him was holie, then to what end did Christ take on him the nature of man, and leave man still in his sins.

Rosewell.

I did not say mens nature was not sinful. Then the people burst out into a laughter, saying, He did.

Captain Smith.

If any do laugh, it will be taken notice of.

Coppin.

Friends, seeing somtimes you cannot chuse but laugh, henceforth laugh inwardly, and make no noise.

Roswell.

I have not to do with children, I suppose this laughter was at the folly of this man, not at me: Now, I say, that the nature of man which Christ did take part of, was polluted with sin, but that part which Christ did take was holy.

Coppin.

You say then, that some part of mans nature was sin∣ful, and some part holie, but you will say anone, that all was sinful.

Rosewell.

I say, all but that part which Christ did take was polluted.

Coppin.

You know not what to say your self, for sometimes you seem to say that all mans nature is sinful, and that Christ took on him mans nature, but not his sins and pollutions: Again, you say he took part of mans nature, which was holie, and left that part which was sinful; but I say, the whole nature of man was polluted, for a little leaven, leavens the whole lump; one sin makes all sinful, and Christ took on him the same, or none, even our sins * 1.2 with our nature, and so 'tis written, He took our nature, and bear our sins, therefore friends, take notice, how this man have lost himself, and know not how to prove any thing.

Rosewell.

I say, this man will still labour to maintain that Christs nature was polluted with sin.

Coppin.

I say, the nature was ours, but it was no longer pollu∣ted, when once Christ lived in it: But I perceive you labour to maintaine Christ to be onelie that individual bodie of flesh, which was part of our flesh, and was sinfull, and not as one living in it, and so you denie the Christ of God, which is our life and light; and you do but passe away time in repeating over one thing so often, therefore pray have done, that I may go on, to clear it up.

Rosewell.

Yea, I will give you rope enough to go to the end of your ladder.

Coppin.

That the whole nature of man was polluted through∣out, the Prophet Isaiah witnesseth, For from the soal of the foot, even unto the head, there is no soundness in it, but wounds, and bruises, and putrified soars, they have not been closed, neither bound up, nor mollified with oyntment, Isa. 1. 6. So that before the coming of Christ into man, to binde up his wounds, to annoint him with oile, and to sanctifie him he is polluted throughout, Ezek. 16.

Rosewell.

Rub your Brazen-face, and go on.

Coppin.

If the nature of man had beene holie before Christ took it on him, then Christ need not have come to make it ho∣lie, but because it was polluted with sinne, therefore did Christ come and take part of the same sinfull nature, that he by living in that nature, might sanctifie and cleanse it all, and thereby present the whole nature of man pure, spotlesse, * 1.3 and blamelesse to the Father, making it to be accepted in him the beloved Jesus, for without him there was none righteous, no not, one, but all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God: And he hath concluded all men under sin and unbelief, that he might * 1.4 have mercy upon all; and this mercie is manifested in Heb. 2. 14. That forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, which is the Devill, and deliver them, who through feare of death, were all their life time subject to bon∣dage: For before Christ did take our flesh on him, the Devill and Sinne did dwell in it, but because that men should not for ever remaine so under the Domini∣ons

of sin, death, hell, and the devil; God himself did manifest him∣self to live in our nature or sinful flesh, that he might destroy both his and our enemies, even sin, death, hell, and the devill in our nature, which devil had no part in him, 1 John 3. 8. For this purpose was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil, without which no man could live to see the face of God in right eousnesse; as 'tis written, We must needs die, and are all like water spilt upon the ground, which could not be gathered up a∣gain: * 1.5 And God, without respect of persons, did find out this way in his Son to redeem us again to himselfe, even by his being manifest in our flesh, yea, in our sinful flesh, not that he was that flesh, but did live in it, to destroy the pollutions of it, and so present it to his Father, as blamelesse, and as holie as himself, For he that sanctifieth, and they who are sanctified, are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them Brethren, saying, I will declare thy Name unto my Brethren, in the mid'st of the Church will I sing praise unto thee: And again, I will put my trust in thee, and beh••ld I and the children which God hath given me (are with thee) Heb. 2. 11.

Rosewell.

Cannot every one read this as well as you?

Coppin.

Pray interrupt me not, I shall yet go on, verse 17. 18. He was in all things made like unto his Brethren, that he might be a mercifull and faithfull High-Priest, to offer up for the sinnes of the people, which till he had taken them on him in our likeness, he could not doe; and in that he himselfe hath suffered for them, being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted, but if our nature were holy before Christ took it on him, to what end did he take it to suffer in it? and yet, I say, this Jesus which did take our nature on him (and still lives in it, now in us, and will also in those that shall come after us) was not himselfe sinfull, but righte∣ous, and the sinfulness of it was ours, and is known onely to us, and not to him living in us, for he knew no sin, and yet he in our nature did beare all oursins, and it was the sins of all men that did crucifie him, which he did beare in (their nature as) his own body on the Tree, for the same nature that sinned, did suffer for sin, and * 1.6 not another nature, and he being both God and man, as having the nature of both, so he had power to die, and to live againe, to lay downe his life, and to take it up; and so he became our Holy

High-Priest, to offer up us and our nature in himselfe, and his na∣ture, * 1.7 by one offering to the Father (to reconcile us to God) when he offer'd up himselfe once for all: And now answer me one que∣stion, What High-Priest is that spoken of in Heb. 5. 1. 2. 3. And that you may know, he is there said to have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way, for that he him∣selfe also is compassed about with our infirmities, and what High-Priest is this say you?

Then answered one Mr. Wife a Minister, It is spoken of Jesus Christ.

Coppin.

It seems you cannot answer your selfe, you must have some other to answer for you.

Rosewell.

I will fetch one Oyster-Wife from Billingsgate shall answer you.

Coppin.

Well, you denie not this answer made for you, con∣cerning this Scripture in Heb. 5. that the High-Priest there spoken of was Christ, which if it be as you say, and not I, then read the next words, ver. 3. and by reason thereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

Rosewell.

You have confest confest what I charged you with.

Coppin.

I have only read to you the words of the Scripture; Also if Christ be our Suretie to pay our debt, as in Heb. 7. 22. then the debt became his, as well as ours, which he paid for him∣self, as for us, after he had taken it to him; and so he may be said, to offer for his own sins also, as for the peoples, according to these Scriptures, Isaiah 53. 12. He was numbered with the trans∣gressors.

Rosewell.

Now I desire all to take notice, and they may plainly see you are a Blasphemer, I shall now follow you in your Wile-Goose-Chase; He that shall pretend Scripture, that Christ did offer for his own sins, as also for the peoples, he is a Blasphemer; but you have; ergo

Coppin.

I have not pretended Scripture▪ but have proved all things that I have said plainlie by Scripture; and concerning that in the Heb. I did ask you what was meant by that High-Priest, and because you did not answer your self, some other bodie did for you, saying, it was Christ.

Rosewell.

But you did affirm that Christ in our nature did offer

for his owne sins, as also for the peoples, and how can there be salvation in him that must offer for his owne sins? therefore all that heare you, must conclude this to be high blasphemy against Jesus Christ, and it is dangerous damnable doctrine.

Coppin.

You say it is dangerous, and so it is to you, because it is contrary to your doctrine, and doth overthrow it, but it is not dangerous to the truth, but to that which is a lye, and that cannot stand before it, and therefore you raile against it, because you can no way overthrow it.

Rosewell.

I say he that saith Christ did offer for his owne sins is a blasphemer.

Coppin.

Is that all you can say, if it be, you were best goe back to Schoole againe, where you learn'd this, and learne some more.

Rosewell.

I have enough, and that you shall see, if I had but your book here

Coppin.

Why did you not bring it with you, seeing you can say nothing without book, I said you wanted help, and so 'tis true

CHAP. VII. Of Christ, the Resurrection from the first Adam to the second, proved, with the manner how, and the time when, what body it shall arise, and from what death; also how it was signified, by what, and when.

ROsewell.

He that from Scripture doth labour to perswade men that there is no Resurrection of the body to be exspected, and that no body shall be raised at the last day, he is a perverter of Scripture, and a venter of damnable errors, but you are one, ergo.

Coppin.

I denie your minor, therefore prove it.

Rosewell.

I prove it thus, 1 Cor. 15. That as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, so all they which have been, are, and shall be, shall be raised up at the last day, which you denie.

Coppin.

I doe grant the Resurrection of the body, and doe not denie it, though you say I doe.

Rosewell.

You did denie that the words in Job did signifie any

Resurrection of the bodie; and also that in 1 Cor. 15. which I can prove.

Coppin.

Is that Resurrection a mysterie, or no mysterie?

Rosewell.

Yes, a great mysterie, and such a one as I do believe you do not know.

Coppin.

If you do know, pray declare it.

Rosewell.

I am not minded to declare it to you at this time.

Coppin.

Then I will tell you what it is.

Friends and Brethren, I do own a Resurrection according to the Scriptures, and such a Resurrection as you all must partake of before ye can see the Kingdome of God, 1 Cor. 15. There is a Resurrection spoken of by the Apostle, which is the Resurre∣ction of Christ, and of our rising in and with him, from the state of the first Adam, to the state of the second Adam; but there were some then, as well as now, that did think the Apostle had meant carnallie the rising again of the same bodie of flesh and bones, and therefore did ask the question, with what bo∣dies they shall arise, not knowing what the Dead was, nor the life it should be raised to, and how God giveth it a bodie as pleaseth him. Now to prove this Resurrection, Christ saith, I am he which was alive, and was dead, and am alive again, and lives for evermore.

Rosewell.

Do you hear, he saith Christ was alive, and dead.

Coppin.

There is nothing can be said to die, but first it must be alive, nor made to live, but it must first die: Now Christ is he which was alive, was dead, and is alive again; the first that was living, and the last that lives. * 1.8

In John 11. 21. Martha comes to Christ, and saith, Lord, if thou had'st been here, my Brother had not died: Christ said, Thy Brother shall rise againe: I know, said Martha, he shall rise at the Resurrection, on the last day: Jesus said unto her, I am the Re∣surrection, and the Life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, and he that lives and believes in me shall never die, Believest thou this? Now she had Faith to believe that he was Christ, the Son of God, but could not believe the truth of her Brothers Resurrection in Christ: therefore did-Christ blame her, saying, Had'st thou but believed, thou should'st have seen the glory of God, John 11. 40.

Now if Christ be the Resurrection, and the Life, then there is nothing in this Resurrection, but what is himself, for he is the dead raised, the raiser of this dead, and the life raised too, as he saith, I am the Resurrection, and the Life. Now take notice that I do not denie any thing of Christ all this while, but do advance him, and also our Resurrection in him, as the Scripture saith, We are raised up together with him, to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, and this is the mysterie of the Resurrection, which you say is a great mysterie.

Now saith the Apostle to those carnal enquirers that knew not this mysterie of the Resurrection, but asked with what bodies they should arise, Thou fool, saith the Apostle, that which thou sowest is not quickned, except it die, and thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or some other grain, so it is not, saith be, the same body which thou sowest that is raised, but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him. And why then, say you, that the same bodie shall be raised again?

Now Paul to prove this spiritual Resurrection, tells us, that there is one glorie of the Sun, another glorie of the Moon, and another of the Stars, and one Star differs from another Star in glorie; so also is the Resurrection of the dead, it is sown in cor∣ruption, it is raised in incorruption; 'tis sown in dishonor, it is raised in glorie; it is sown in weaknesse, it is raised in power, and all in us, that I may know him, saith Paul, and the power of his Resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death, if by any means I might at∣tain unto the Resurrection of the dead, for which I presse for∣wards, * 1.9 saith Paul: So that this Resurrection is to be within you, and you are to know it while you live in this bodie, for it is your rising from faith to faith, from glorie to glorie, as from one ad∣ministration of God to another, Behold, saith Paul, I shew you * 1.10 a mysterie, we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed; that is, changed from the state of the first Adam, to the state of the second Adam, and so he tells us, It was sown in Adam, it was raised in Christ, it was sown a natural body, and it is raised a spiri∣tual body, even as you see your change, for the first man Adam is of the earth earthy, a living soul, the second is the Lord from hea∣ven, a quickening spirit, and as is the earthly, so are they that are

earthly, and as is the heavenly, so are they that are heavenly; wherefore examine your selves, and you will now find it so, for you are all of you either in the state of the first Adam, or in the state of the second Adam, and your change is from the first to the second, that as you have born the image of the earthly, so you shall bear the image of the heavenlie, for there is a bodie na∣tural, and a bodie spiritual, all which are proper to us in this life: And thus Paul tells us of the Resurrection in a my∣sterie.

Now take notice that I do not denie any Resurrection in all this, which by any man may be proved, but I do declare to you the mysterie of this spiritual Resurrection, which I know, and which you say is a mysterie: Secondly, consider the death you are to be raised from, and that is the death that all men died in the state of the first Adam, and do still die, by reason of sin, from which death all shall be raised to life in Christ, the second Adam: Now the wages of sin is death, and that death which sin doth bring on man, is the same death that Christ doth raise him from, For you who were dead in sins and trespasses, hath he quick∣ned, * 1.11 and if ye be risen with Christ, seek the things which are a∣bove, where Christ siteth at the right hand of God, which is spoken in the Presentence, and not in the Future, and cannot be meant of the rising of our corporal bodies, after laid in the grave, which I question whether those that talk so much of that, do yet know this spiritual Resurrection, which I hereby declare to you all; and if any one can tell us of another Resurrection of the same body of flesh, blood, and bones again as it was, let him declare that, as I have declared this, for I denie nothing which by any other can be proved, but the Scripture saith, That flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdome of God, neither doth cor∣ruption inherit incorruption; therefore blessed and happy are all they * 1.12 which have their part in this first Resurrection, for of such the se∣cond death hath no power, but they live and raign with Christ.

Thirdly, As there is a bodie to be raised, so there is also a bo∣die to be destroyed, and that is the bodie of sin and death, which is to die, and no more to live, For if Christ be in you, the body is * 1.13 dead, because of sin, but the spirit is life, because of righteousnesse, that is of Christ: And in Rom 6. there is a Resurrection from

sin, to newnesse of life, spoken of by the Apostle, that like as Christ was raised from the dead, by the glorie of the Father, even so should we walk before him in newnesse of life; for if we have been planted together in the likenesse of his death, we shall be also in the likenesse of his Resurrection, knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the bodie of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rosewell.

2 Tim. 2. 18. But there were false Prophets among them, as there are false Teachers among you, which say, the Resur∣rection is past already, and so bring in damnable errors to overthrow the saith, and we see there were some in the Apostles daies which did deny a corporal Resurrection.

Coppin.

Do you instance that Scripture as to a corporal Resur∣rection, which speaks nothing of it, you do add to that Scrip∣ture (the word corporal) and you know the punishment of him that addeth thereto, or diminisheth therefrom. Again, I do not say the Resurrection is past already, for it is not yet come to you, nor many more, therefore your Scripture is to no purpose a∣gainst me; for I say, it is to come, as well as alreadie come, and that it shall continue until the Day of Judgment be ended, or till all that shall be, are raised, and set free in this spiritual Resur∣rection, from death, hell, or the grave, in which they lie impri∣soned and buried, by reason of sin; but the Sadduces, who de∣nie the Resurrection, hold there is neither Angel nor Spirit, and that do not I.

Rosewell.

I shall prove the Resurrection of the body, from Job 19. Where Job saith, He shall see God with those eyes at the last day: 1 Cor. 15. Paul saith, If the dead rise not, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is vain, and you are yet in your sins: And Job saith, Though wormes destroy his bodie, yet in this flesh, in this bodie, shall I see God, which doth clearlie prove a corporal Resurrection, but I shall give him rope till night.

Coppin.

Add not to the Scripture, for there is no such bodily Resurrection spoken of, as you declare, 1 Cor. 15. 12. so on, pray see friends, Paul doth not speak of a corporal Resurrecti∣on, but tells them of the Resurrection of the Dead, and saith,

That if Christ be not risen, then all our Preaching and Believing is in vain, and we are yet in our sins: Clearlie intimating, that the Resurrection of Christ doth assure them of their being raised from sin, to walk with God in newnesse of life, For, saith he, you are sown a natural body, but you are raised a spiritual body; and a spirituall bodie is not flesh and bones, therefore not the same bodie, as you say it is, and would have it to be.

Rosewell.

There shall be eyes, hands, and feet.

Coppin.

That there shall be eyes, hands, and feet, you are yet to prove.

Rosewell.

Job saith, He shall see God with those eyes, and that in this his flesh he shall see God: Againe, the Scripture saith, That they which are alive, and them which are dead, shall be raised, and all of them shall meet the Lord, only this corruptible must put on incorruptible, and this mortall must put on immortalitie: Again, the bodies of Believers are the Temples of the Holy Ghost, 1 Cor. 6. and the Temples of Je∣sus Christ, therefore the same bodies shall be raised at the last day.

Coppin.

You also bring Job to prove a Corporal Resurrection, of flesh, blood, and bones, and that this Resurrection, and seeing God with those eyes, was not to be, till after the death of his visible bodie, as you say; but I say here is a mysterie▪ and a spiritual sense to be understood in these words, Job. 19. where he saith, I know my Redeemer liveth, and that at the last day I shall s••e him stand upon the earth; and though after my skin, worms de∣stroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God, whom I shall see, for my selfe, and mine eyes shall behold, and not anothers, though my reins be consumed within me. But to understand this, you must know how he is the Redeemer, and when, also what is meant by the last day, and the earth which he shall stand upon, and what eyes shall behold him, &c.

Now his Redeemer was the Lord, and did then live in Job, though he knew it not, & that he should see him at the last day, is a truth, but what this last day was, and the manner how he should see him, that he knew not, till the time came that he saw him in him∣selfe; therefore you shall find that Job was then in darkness, and under much affliction, uttering words without knowledg, for

which he was reproved, first by the Prophet Elihu, secondlie by * 1.14 the Lord, thirdlie he confest it; first the Prophet reproved him, Job 33. Chap. 35. 16. Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vaine, he multiplieth words without knowledg, Job 38. 1. 2. Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, who is this that darkeneth counsell by words without knowledg, gird up now thy loynes like a man, for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. And so he goes on to reprove Job of his ignorance of God, and in Chap. 40. 3. Job answers the Lord and saith, bebold I am vile, what shall I answer thee, I will lay my hand upon my mouth, once have I spoken, but I will not answer, yea twice, but I will proceed no further, and in Chap. 42. 3. he acknowledges his error and ignorance of God, and answers the Lord, saying, who is he that hideth counsell without knowledge, therefore have I uttered that I understand not, things too wonderfull for me, which I knew not, but now hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak, I have often heard of thee by the hearing of the care, but now mine eyes seeth thee, wherefore I abhor my selfe in dust and ashes. Thus did Job in his life time see the King, the Lord of Hosts, his Redeemer, standing upon, (and was a conqueror of) that earth, the first Adam which he first lived in the Image of, till the second Adam appeared, as at the last day of the first Adam in him, which he before said should come, and wa•• now come to him, For now doe mine eyes see thee.

Rosewell.

Pray read a little further, and ye shall find that God saith, his freinds had not spoken right of him, as his servant Job had done; and again, this cannot be meant of his seeing his Redeemer, for now ••is 〈…〉〈…〉ynes and reines was not consumed.

Coppin.

'Tis true, Job never spoke the things that was right of the Lord, till he said, Now doe mine eyes see thee; and this his friends could not say, for they had not seen the Lord, as his servand Job had; therefore, though after his skin wormes had destroyed his body, yet in his flesh he did see God.

Th••s skin was the good esteem he had of his own righteous∣nesse, the pride and glory of his own flesh, which he was stripped of, for boasting in it, and so saith Job, He hath stripped me of all * 1.15 my glory, and taken the Crown from off my head; and the body that must be destroyed, was the body of sin and corruption which

was within him, and is in all men for a time, while they live in the corrupt state of the old Adam, and the wormes are the terrors of the troubled minde, which as Troops of Robbers feeds upon the flesh of the earthly man, and Job had many in his flesh, For my flesh, saith he, is cloathed with Wormes, my skin is broken, and become loathsome, the arrows of the Almighty sticks fast * 1.16 in me, his Archers compasse me round about, and he cleaveth my reins in sunder. Here was the destruction of Jobs body in his life time, all his comforts were taken from him, and all those things were fulfilled upon him, and appeared in him, and yet, saith he, after all this I shall see my Redeemer, and so he did, fo•• when through the manifestation of God to him, his soul within him was revived, his knowledge and understanding enlightened, and his reins, with the girdle of saith strengthened, then, saith he, Now do mine eyes see thee, and I am no more my self, but a * 1.17 new man in thee, for now is my change come, therefore cannot be meant of the body after a naturall death, as you say it is.

Robison.

Of all Religions, this is most damnable, to say there is no Resurrection of the body.

Coppin.

I denie not any thing which any man can prove to * 1.18 be true, from Scripture.

Rosewell.

I prove a corporall Resurrection of our bodies, from the example of Christs Resurrection of his Body.

Coppin.

That was a signe to us of our rising with Christ to a newness of life, both toward God and man.

Rosewell.

I denie the Resurrection of Christs body to be a signe.

Coppin.

You say the corporal Resurrection of Christ is no sign, and yet you say againe it doth signifie the Resurrection of our bodies, but the Scripture saith not so, but saith, That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we * 1.19 also should walk in newnesse of life, and so will he change our vile bodies here, and make them like unto his glorious bodie, by subduing * 1.20 all things to himself in us, which is the spiritualty and glory of our bodies.

Captain Smith.

We grant you that.

Coppin.

Then give me leave, Christ being born of the Virgin Mary, Was it also a signe to us, or not?

Robison.

Was it but a signe to us, and no substance.

C••ppin.

I doe not say so, but I say it was a signe which I prove, Isa. 7. 14. Therefore the Lord himselfe shall give you a signe, behold a Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call his name Emanuel. Now what did this signifie, but that as the Virgin did bring forth Christ in our nature, flesh, blood, and bones, so should Christ bring forth himselfe in every one of us, in Spirit and truth, Gal. 4. 14. My little Children, saith Paul, of whom I travell in birth againe, untill Christ be formed in you, not as a bodie, flesh, and bones in us, for that were to make many Christs, as for every man one, but he shall be formed in us in Spirit and power.

Rosewell.

I doe not believe, but Christ is here said to be a signe, but what is the thing signified, that King Ahaz should overcome his enemies, and that the Scepter should not depart from Juda, till Shilo come.

Coppin.

That is till Christ come Spirituall in us, or else what benefit is it to us to look back upon the birth and death of Christ as signes, and doe not see the things signified; For a wicked and adulterous generati••n seeketh after a signe, and never looks on the thing signified, which is the birth, death, and Resurrection of Christ in them, which should all be made manifest in our mortall flesh, and so saith Paul, I doe always beare about in the bodie, the dying also of * 1.21 the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in our bodie, and now doe I rejoyce in my sufferings for you, and do fill up the measure of the sufferings of Christ in my flesh, for his bodies sake, which is the Church, whereof I Paul am made a Minister, according to the dispensation of God, which is given to me for you to fullfill the word of God, even the mysterie which hath been hid from all ages, and now is made manifest to his Saints, to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mysterie, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

CHAP. VIII. The Mystery of the Trinity in relation to man, of the state of Re∣probation, when, how long, and how.

ROsewell.

I desire you may go on: How is Christ in you the hope of glory?

Coppin.

Tell me, what do you mean by Christ, and then I will tell you, how he is Christ the hope of glorie in man.

Rosewell.

I do mean by Christ the Son of God, the second per∣son in the Trinity, God our All-blessed for ever, he that did take our nature of his Virgin Mother, and doth in our nature sit at the right hand of God, and will come again at the last day to judge the quick and dead.

Coppin.

I do not denie the three persons, according to the Scripture, but you do denie Christ to be within us, and would * 1.22 subscribe him to a place above our heads, with another person; therefore I will tell you what the Trinity is. First, there is God the Father that did create all things, and in whom all things live, when yet unknown to man, and that men might know him that is true, he did appear as a son amongst men, to manifest himself * 1.23 to men, and so he is said to be Immanuel, God withus, which is also Christ in us the hope of glory: Thirdly, there is the Holy Spirit, and that is the compleat manifestation of the fulness of all things brought home to mans understanding, wherein God, Christ, and man appears, all but one in one God, as Christ saith, I in them, and thou in me, that we all may be made perfect in one; and * 1.24 saith he, The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall come, and teach you all things.

Now so long as man is without this manifestation of God, which * 1.25 is Christ in him, he is a reprobate, and knows not God; but when Christ shall so appear in man to shew the Father plainly, then is there a perfect knowledg of the true God in man, John 14. 20. At that day ye shall know that I am in the Father, and you in me, and I in you, and then know you not but that Christ is in you, * 1.26 except you be reprobates: And now what is a reprobate, but not to have Christ in you, which is God manifest in flesh, there∣fore,

I say, Reprobation is the not knowing of God to be in you, Rom. 1. 28. for because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind; but where there is God manifest in flesh to the knowledge of any, there is Christ, and that man is no longer a reprobate, for then is God said to walk in him, as being no longer still and silent, but is seen and known to him; as when a man dwells in a house, shuting the windows to him, and will not be seen; so when God doth not only dwell in man, but also walk in man, discovering himself to man, by opening and leting in the light through the understanding of man, then is Father, Son, and Spirit, all three as one God, dwelling, walking, and manifesting himself in man, For, saith he, I will dwell amongst you, and I will walk amongst you, I will be your God, and you shall be my people.

Rosewell.

You have confounded the three persons.

Coppin.

No, I have united them together in their proper pla∣ces, as all agreeing in one, when as they were three manifestations of that one great and glorious God, Father, Son, and Spirit.

Rosewell.

It is high time for Magistrates, Ministers, and peo∣ple to look about them, when such damnable errors are uttered with so impudent a face.

Captain Smith.

Mr. Rosewell, It is the plain Scripture, I con∣ceive, Mr. Coppin hath given the people satisfaction in those things; for he saith, that Jesus Christ is in no reprobates, nor in no man, till they know God; and that where God doth manifest himself to a soul, there is Christ.

Rosewell.

But Sir, he, I know, doth mean, that there is no repro∣bates ordained to wrath; now tell me, will Christ be in them you call reprobates, first or last?

Coppin.

There is no man now come to know God, but first he did not know God, and so long he was a reprobate, which that all men are, till Christ be dwelling in them.

Captain Smith.

Till Jesus Christ be manifested in them, he saith, they are reprobates.

Rosewell.

But I have a new question, that is, Will Christ be manifest in them all, first or last? answer that.

Coppin.

I will give you a plain Scripture for an answer, 1 Tim. 2. 4. 5. Who will have all men to be saved, and come to the know∣ledge

of the truth, for there is one God, and one Mediator betweene God and man, even the man Christ Jesus, who gave himselfe a ran∣some for all men to be testified in due time, whereunta I Paul am ordained an Apostle, I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not.

Rosewell.

You see ••e affirms that God will save all men.

Coppin.

I have answered you in the plain words of Scriptures, which is an answer sufficient; And Paul saith, He doth speak the truth in Christ, and lies not; pick what you can out of that; and of this Gospel truth, saith he, I Paul am made a Minister.

Rosewell.

You do not say that Christ shall appear in all, but you bring this as a proof; now no Scripture doth contradict another, now this is meant, he will save some of all sorts of men of places and au∣thority.

Coppin.

The Apostle saith all, and you say some, who per∣verts Scripture now, you or I?

Rosewell.

You are not to pray for all men, therefore all shall not be saved.

Coppin.

If all shall be saved that are to be prayed for, then there is none but shall be saved, for prayers is to be made for all men.

Rosewell.

But the Apostle means all sorts of men, and that some of all sorts shall be saved.

Coppin.

Then by your own words there is no one whole sort of men in the world left out from salvation, but some of all sorts, and not all of any sort, (you say) shall be saved; and the Scripture saith, all men of all sorts, for both the fulnesse of Jews and Gentiles shall come in, therefore name any of any sort that shall not.

CHAP. IX. The sin against the Holy Ghost not forgiven, what it is, who commits it, and when.

ROsewell.

He that hath commited the sin against the Holy Ghost, * 1.27 that after strong conviction of truth, do fall away, and are perverted, they shall not be forgiven in this world, nor the world to come.

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and whosoever commits sin is of him, but he that is born of God sineth not, neither can he, for his seed remaineth in him.

Rosewell.

He that is born of God sineth not, that is, willingly to make a trade of sin, yet in the best of Gods people there is sin.

Coppin.

Then he that commits sin is of the devill, and shall be destroyed, but if he that commits sin, and is of the devill, be meant of men, there is none shall be saved, if all commits sin, as you say.

Rosewell.

No, I doe not say so.

Coppin.

But you do, therefore heare, if he that commits sin is of the devill, as the Scripture saith, and that as you say, all men do commit sin (for you say in the best of Gods people there is sin) and that God will destroy the persons of men for their sins commited by them, who is that sinner then in the world, that shall be saved? and what is that sinner which shall perish? if you know, declare it, what, and who that sinner is.

Rosewell.

I doe think there is one in the Pulpit, which doth sin against God, in blaspheming his Name.

Coppin.

There is one then, but is that all, well, you say I am a sinner, but I hope you think your selfe to be a righteous person, I say then let him that is without sin, cast the first stone, the Scripture ••aith, he hath concluded all men under sin, that he might have mercie upon all, and 'tis wel for me that I am a sinner, for then I am sure to have a part in Christ, for he came not to call the righteous, * 1.28 but sinners.

Rosewell.

If none shall be saved, but the Elect, then all shall not be saved, but it is cleare, none shall be saved but the Elect, when he is revealed from heaven, he will take vengeance on all that know not God, Isa. 27. 11. Also 2 Thes. 1. 7. 8. And indeed the whole Chapter, read and consider it seriously, and be not led away by these Imposters.

Coppin.

The Lord Jesus is now revealed from heaven in flame∣ing fire, taking vengeance on all that know him not, neither own him in his people, as al unrighteousness of men, which hold the truth in unrighteousness, doe not, and against this the wrath of God is * 1.29 revealed, and not against the persons of men; yet those men, so long as this unrighteousness is in them, they appeare not as men, yet saved by him, but doe suffer the vengeance and terror of this

fierce fiery appearing of God to them, till the enemie; the devill in them is destroyed, that made them sinners, by commiting sin in them.

Rosewell.

Take notice he doth deny a general coming of Christ at the last day, in flaming fire, rendering vengeance on the persons of men.

Coppin.

I do not denie the coming of Christ to render ven∣geance to whom it belongs, for vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, and I will repay; therefore I believe some hath it now, and he is come, and doth come and will come, to take vengeance on all that know him not (and is of the devil) in me, you, and every man else, and when he is so come to any soul for that work, he will then let them know, that he himself is that flame of fire that will devoure his adversaries, (to wit) the bryers and thorns with which we fight against God in the time of our ignorance, perse∣cuting * 1.30 the truth: For what was Paul when Christ came to him, was he not a great persecutor of the Church and people of God in those daies? and Christ came to him in a flame of fire, to take vengeance on that in him which knew not God (but had fought against the truth) saying, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? * 1.31 and yet he, in that person, after that, lived and Preach'd the Go∣spel which he once destroyed.

French.

You had need go and be a School-boy again.

Coppin.

I am indeed a School-boy now in the School of Christ, and 'twere well if you were one there also.

French.

The Lord stop thy mouth.

Rosewell.

He doth say the day of Judgement is past already.

Coppin.

I say it not, but do say that it is come, and coming, and therefore answer me to the former Scripture, which you would passe by, He that commits sin, is of the devill; for there is yet more to be said to that before we leave it.

Rosewell.

That is, every one that continues to be of the Devill, he shall be destroyed, and there is whole heaps of them in hell now, and there for ever shall be tormented with fire and brimstone.

Coppin.

If this be all you know, I will tell you more, He that committeth sin, is of the devil; and there is no man but doth com∣mit sin, and so long the devil raigns in him; but when the Lord Jesus Christ doth manifest himself in that man, to destroy the

works of the devil, he then binds the devil in that man, dispos∣ses••es him of his place, throwes out all his goods and houshol dstuff, and sets them on a fire together, according to this Scripture, Mark 3. 27. 28. No man can enter into a strong mans house, and spoile his goods, except he first bind the strong man, and then he will spoile his house.

This house is man, the strong man that keeps it, is the devill, (or man in his strengh) but when the Lord Jesus Christ, who is stronger then he is come, then is the devill bound, his goods spoil∣ed, and all that mans sins forgiven him.

Rosewell.

I doe confesse all by nature are sinfull, but all doe not sin in that sense, so that all that hath been said is to no purpose.

Coppin.

You did say at first, you would make me so ashamed that I should not shew my face here any more; and indeed all that hath been said by you yet, is little to that purpose.

Rosewell.

Indeed I did alwaies dispairof making your brazen-face ashamed.

Coppin.

Then give me leave to proceed, I say there is for a time in every man, the old man living and sining, and also the new man that sineth not, and those are at difference one with another, untill the one hath overcome the other, as Paul saith of himselfe after he was first converted, Rom. 7. 22. I delight (saith he) in the law of God after the inward man, but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind, that I cannot doe the things that I would, for with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh the law of sin, so it is no more I that sins, but sin that dwelleth in me, not the new man, but the old man that sineth.

Rosewell.

And this you doe affirm to be in every man.

Capt Smith.

Mr. Coppin, many people desire to know if you speake this of the regenerate state of man, or if it be the state of all men.

Coppin.

I say this, that all men so far as they are regenerated, doth not commit sin, but the wicked one, which is called the unregenerate part, doth rule in all men for a time, more or lesse, untill he be wholly thrown out, but when the Lord Jesus by manifesting himselfe for that work, doth begin to seize on that wicked part, then the work of regeneration begins, and

then man is not all wicked, nor all righteous, but part of both, as the Apostle was, in his first conversion, and so long there is a warfare in man, till the old man be wholly subdued, accord∣ing to this Scripture, he that is in Christ is a new crature, old things are past away, and all things are become new.

Captain Smith.

And concerning this, Paul saith, I thank God through Jesus Christ, with my mind I serve the law of God, though with my flesh the law of sin.

Rosewell.

He speaketh there of a regenerate state.

People say, let Mr. Coppin speake.

Rosewell.

Pray let me speak, you see with what a bundle of words this man hath heaped up a discourse, as that the wicked one in man doth commit sin, and that when Christ doth come, that is but the be∣ginings of his regeneration, and you know that when Christ doth lay hold on any soule, there is a work of regeneration wrought on that man, and this work of regeneration, Christ doth work onely in his people, not in all men.

Coppin.

It is manifest that all men were, and are, the people of God, though til this work of regeneration is wrought in them, they do not appeare to be of God, but of the devill, having not the knowledg of God within them.

CHAP. XI. A briefe hint of generall salvation by Christ, of the people called Jews, Gentiles, and Heathens, &c. that it is the onely doctrine to keep men from sin, and to be assured of their owne salvation, how, and when.

ROsewell.

The whole Scripture puts difference between the seed of the woman, and the seea of the serpent, and between them that shall be saved, and them that shall be damned, and if the devill should come from hell, and preach a doctrine to bring men to the broad way of destruction, this is the onely thing to make them believe, all shall be saved, and that whatsoever good deeds man doe, can doe them no good, and whatsoever evill deeds they doe, can doe them no hurt.

Coppin.

You say there is no greater thing in the world to bring

men into the broad way of destruction, then to tell men that all shall be saved, and that it is doctrine of devills, therefore shall I goe on, and prove how God will save all men, and destroy onely the seed of the serpent in them, which is no doctrine of devills, but of Christ and his Apostles, which they preached for to call men to salvation from the broad way of destruction, into which they were led by the doctrine of damnation (or damnable doctrine) the doctrine of devills, For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved, and it is God that justisieth sinners, who the•• shall condemn? Not I, * 1.32 saith the Lord, for I will that all men shall be saved; and of this, saith Paul, am I made a Minister, I speak the truth in Christ, and lye not, my conscience also bearing me witnesse in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heavinesse for my Brethren, according to the flesh, who are Israelites, and yet ignorant of this mysterie, their own salva∣tion; 〈…〉〈…〉and therefore Brethren consider seriously of the Doctrine of the Apostle in Rom. Chap. 9. 10. 11. First, he goes on and tells them, that though Israel be as the sand in the sea, yet a rem∣nant shall be saved, meaning of the Jewes at that time, to whom the word (Election) only belongs, for a very small number then believed, the rest were blinded, yet he tells them it shall come to passe, that in the same place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there shall it be said, Ye are the children of the living God; what saith the Apostle, though Israel be cut off for * 1.33 a time, hath God therefore cast away his people which he fore∣knew, God forbid? God hath not cast away his people for ever, though at this present time there remains but a remnant, accord∣ing to the Election of grace, that is now, saith he, but doth not tell them it shall be alwayes so, but to the contrary he affirmes, for the holy seed was still in them, though they were blind and * 1.34 saw it not; and of this he would not have them ignorant, that blindnesse in part is happened to Israel, until the fulnesse of the Gentiles be come in, and so saith he, (which said before a remnant should be saved, saith now) all Israel shall be saved (as it is written) A Deliverer shall come out of Sion, and shall turn away ungodlinesse from Jacob, and this shall be my Covenant when I take * 1.35 away their sins, for the people shall be all righteous, a little one shall become a thousand, a small number shall become a great

number, I the Lord shall hasten it in due time, that it shall no more be said, a remnant, but all Israel shall be saved, yea, Jewes * 1.36 and Gentiles, bond and free, all have been baptized into Christ, and shall be saved by Christ, who is all, and in all; And the Hea∣then also hath he given to his Son Christ for an inheritance, and the * 1.37 uttermost parts of the earth for his possession, to be possest by him, but of the times and seasons, Brethren, I would not have you ig∣norant, for he comes as a Thief in the night.

And whereas you say, that this Doctrine of Salvation to all men gives men liberty to sin, I tell you no, for when once this love of God, which is so free to all men, hath appeared to my soul, thy soul, and any soul in the world, it will keep him from the liberty of sining, and bind him fast to the liberty of Christ, as it is written, The grace of God, which brings salvation to all men hath appeared; what to do, to give them liberty to sin, no; but doth * 1.38 teach them to deny all ungodlinesse, and worldly lusts, and to live soberly and righteously in this present world; no more according to your own wills, but the Lords will, for now they are in the pow∣er and hands of the Lord, and he doth act them which way he please for his own glory, and their good in him, and then what art thou, O man, that judgest thy Brother, thou therein judgest the Law by which he is kept; and thou art not then a doer of the * 1.39 Law, but a Judge; for man cannot do any thing of himself, but by that Law which he is kept, and therefore all men are to say, If the Lord will, we shall do this or that, for the Law of love, which is in Christ, constrains men to that which is good, from that which is evil.

And therefore to the contrarie of what you say I declare, that by your preaching of wrath, hell, and damnation, to poor souls that are weak in the faith, it doth but cast them down from the knowledge of the love of God, through which they should s•••• themselves saved, and they can never see the love of God in Christ after that way which you preach unto them, and therefore pray see friends, who say they Preaches Gospel, know what Gospel 'tis they Preach; the Apostle saith, The Gospel which they preach, is not after mans wisdome, but by the demonstration of the spirit, and * 1.40 of power; For we Preach, saith he, Christ crucified, to the Jewes a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishnesse, because they

know not the mysterie of godlinesse, which is Christ in them, the wisdome of God, and the power of God; and we preach * 1.41 peace on earth, and good will towards men, and to God, glory in the highest: And O how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of * 1.42 those which bring tydings of peace, and say to Sion, thy God raign∣eth, thy warfare is accomplished, and thy sin is pardoned; and this Gospel did Christ preach, and command to be preached to every creature under heaven, as the work of his Ministerie.

Rosewell.

He doth maintain the salvation of all, and doth con∣demn others which do not so, you may plainly see now how you are misled, and I hope you are all abundantly satisfied in it; if it were not to give satisfaction to some, I would not have put my self to this trouble to have discoursed with such a man, in whose forehead Blasphemy is written in Capital Letters, he that runs may read it.

Coppin.

Seeing you cannot tell how to call me bad enough, as you think, therefore I will give you a little more before you go, and catch what you can, that is, that no man can be assured of his own salvation, except he see the same salvation in the same Saviour, for all men, as well as for himself, which is to love his Neighbour as himself.

Rosewell.

Better and better.

Coppin.

For Jesus Christ did die and pay a price for all men, one as well as another, and if there be but a few men saved, and * 1.43 the greatest part damned to eternitie, as you say, there is, what assurance then can there be to any, for all were sinners, and if there were but one man to be so damned, how could any man assuredly know (except he believe this) but that he himself might be that one man.

Rosewell.

Blessed be God which doth so discover him to us, his Elder Brother which went before him was more subtil, not to discover those Blasphemies which lay hid in him, but in you, the devil appears in his colours; and in his Stage-play terms.

Coppin.

I have not yet said any evil of you, though you are pleased to raile at me for speaking the truth free∣lie.

Rosewell.

It is not judging nor railing, to call a Blasphemer a Blasphemer, though I will not deny but there may be something spoken

of a weak Brother; and also that Scripture in the Rom. by you mentioned, when he speaks of a remnant, and that they shall be grafted in again; and whereas you say, that all shall be saved, Matth. 22. 14. Many are called, but few are chosen. I am sorry I must be so brief, but straightened in my body; the truth is, his lungs are better then mine, but I hope must here are satisfied in what hath been here stoken.

Robison.

We are well satisfied; pray God keep us from this damnable Doctrine.

Coppin.

It remaines damnable to all that believe it not, for though it be a truth, that God will save all men, yet till man doth see this salvation within him, there is no satisfaction un∣to him, but he still remains only as one called with the multi∣tude that shall be saved, but being not yet chosen, he remains as one unsaved; until his time appointed comes, that he see himself * 1.44 saved, which will then be his choice or election to the faith by the spirit of adoption, so that many are called, but few are cho∣sen, but the called shall all be chosen, for it is written, That the promise of salvation is to all that are afar off, and as many as the Lord shall call, Acts 2. 39.

CHAP. XII. Of the Day of Judgment, and all mens coming to it, with the time when, the place where, the manner how, the matter judged, and for what.

ROsewell.

You say we preach damnation, and so do cast men downe, we do preach it to such as do go on in their sins; and live and die in their sins, that hell is their portion; and as for thousands which die in their infancie, the corruption of their natures is enough to damn them in hell to all eternity, I can but hint at those things, indeed if we did preach only damnation we were too blame, but when we do Preach comfort to Believers, we preach damnation to unbelievers, as Christ saith, He that believeth shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned at the Day of Judge∣ment, Rom. 2. who after their hardnesse of heart, treasure up wrath against the day of wrath, and revelation of the righteous

judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds, to them that are contentious, and obey not the truth, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, to every soule of man which doth evill, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.

Coppin.

Sir, you have run through many words of wrath and judgment, but nothing is proved by you, what it is, nor when it is; and whereas you say, there is a day of wrath and judgment, I doe acknowledge the same, and that it is both to Jewes and Gentiles, and all that obey not the truth; but whereas you also say, that some Jewes which are dead already shall not be grafted in againe I denie, for the promise that they should come in, was then made for all the stiff-necked Jewes, that were also then, and before living, though their bodies fell in the wilderness, yet their Spirits are living, and shall again be grafted in, When the earth shall be full of the knowledg of God, and though you from Rom. * 1.45 2. doe say they are under wrath, you doe not from thence prove that it shall abide on them, for ever and ever; now I say, that that man which is under wrath must there remaine, till the Lord Jesus doth come to him, to manifest himselfe in him, to turne his wrath away from him, and so judg that in him for wrath, which is for wrath, and that for mercy which is for mercy; but because you * 1.46 have not declared what this day of wrath and judgment is, I will, for a day of judgment there is, in which all men shall be judged, and receive according to their deeds, and if there be more then one day of judgment which I shall shew you, then doe you declare it, for I denie nothing which can be proved by any man from Scriptute.

Now the Scripture saith there is judgment appointed for all men, as 'tis written, It is appointed for all men once to die, and after that the judgment; and this death is adying into sin and trespasses, for the wages of sin is death, which none can be delivered from, but by judgment, and the Lord Jesus is to be the Judg of all, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath commited all judgment to the * 1.47 Son, who will not judg by the sight of the eye, nor hearing of the eare, but will judg righteous judgment; and Christ saith, for judgment am I come into this world, and now, saith he, is the judgment of this world is come; now shall the Prince of this world be cast out; and as it began then, so it is not ended yet, but goeth on still, and

shall continue so long as there is any sin, death, hell, or devill, to be judged, or condemned in man; And that every eare and eye, that heares and sees any thing besides Christ, shall be made deafe and blind, and every mouth that speaks any thing besides Christ the truth, shall be stopped, that so the Lord himself may be all in all, and saith Peter, The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God, and if it begin at us, what shall the end be of them * 1.48 that obey not the Gospel of God? why, all shall come to judgment, every man in his order, at the time when the Lord shall appear unto them.

And this is not a visible temporal Judgement on the bodies of men, but invisible in the hearts of men, which is the Temple unto which God will come and dwell in, for the Lord, whom you seek, will suddainly come to his Temple, and there sit as a Refi∣ner * 1.49 and Purisier of silver, and will take away his drosse and tyn, and try them as gold is tried, therefore he saith, he will send the Spirit, and he shall convince the world of sin, of righteousnesse, and judgement, and when the Lord doth so come to judgement, then shall everie mans book be opened, and they shall be judged according to the things written in their books, which books are * 1.50 the consciences of men bearing witnesse, either for them, or a∣gainst them, accusing, or else excusing one another, in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, accord∣ing * 1.51 to his Gospel; and this is the manner of the Lords proceed∣ing to judgement in the day of the Gospel, which to the Lord is * 1.52 but as one day, though thousand of years.

Head a Lawyer said, This is damnable Doctrine, what need a coming to judgement, if all shall be saved, you are a Blasphemer, and destroyes the Fundamentals of Religion by your impudency.

Coppin.

Though all men shall be saved, yet not without judg∣ment: But Sir, I perceive you are a Lawyer, & it may be hath a fee given you, then plead Law for it, the Gospel allowes of none, but though you may know the Law better then I, it may be I may know the Gospel as well as you, and you see I have declared a judgement according to the Gospel, and have proved it all along, if you understand it, and if any man can prove any other Judge∣ment day besides this which I have proved, let him declare it.

And I also prove, that this Judge the Lord Jesus doth accuse

no man, but he that is the accuser of the brethren, is the devil, * 1.53 who shall be cast out, and his accusation made void, for man, while he lives under the law, lives under wrath, and is accused by the law, but when the Lord Jesus comes to any soul, as a Judg, to fulfill the law, he declares himself accused and condemned for that soule, and so frees him from the law, and quiteth him of the accusation, and now Christ accuseth not, but Moses; and yet, saith he, You will not come to me, that you may have life, but though you receive another that comes in his own name, father then me that comes in my Fathers name, yet doe not think that I will accuse you to the Father, no, but there is one that doth accuse you, even Moses, in whom you trust. * 1.54

Rosewell.

John 5. is meant, Christ will not accuse them to the Father; yet Christ doth accuse them which doth oppose his Gospel, and will doe it, and will throw them to the nethermost hell, at the last day, in everlasting torment, soul and body; and therefore I desire you all, as you tender the glory of God, and the good, of your own souls, have a care of such a dangerous blasphemer as this, which in such a high nature doth blaspheme the great God of heaven, Isa. 26. Thy hand is lifted up, and they will not see it, but they shall see it, and be ashamed for their envie at the people; the fire of thy enemies shall devoure their persons at the last day.

Coppin.

You may apply this unto your self, for your own envie that hath appeared at this, and other times; but doe you bring this to prove destruction of persons eternally at the last day, which is no such thing here meant.

Rosewell.

I doe confesse a Spirituall Judgment Day.

Coppin.

That have I affirmed all this while, for the which you crie out against me to be a blasphemer, &c.

Rosewell.

But there is another day of judgment, which will be at the last day.

Coppin.

Pray doe you prove a second day of judgment, you have confest the first, which I proved to you, and I denie not your second, if you can prove it to me also, prove the destruction of persons, as you say.

Rosewell.

Faelix did tremble when he did heare of judgment to come.

Coppin.

This judgment was to come on him then, and is to

come on all now, on whom it hath not yet appeared for the de∣struction of sin.

Rosewell.

It doth appear there is no such judgment known unto you, Jude 15. but the Lord will come visibly, as a man from heaven, and all his Saints with him, to sit upon his Throne, and to execute judgment, and to convince all that are ungodly.

Coppin.

You should declare where this place of Judgment is, and when it is, and what this Throne is on which he sits.

Rosewell.

I will not tell you, you shall know it when it doth come, and therefore cease to pervert Scripture.

Coppin.

I do not at all judg or condemn you for speaking your judgment in what things you know, though you do judg me, for you can but speak as you have received, according to your mea∣sure, and so do I.

Rosewell.

He doth mainly labour to deny any Judgment to come on any mans person.

Coppin.

I tell you again, I denie nothing which you can prove to be true, it is your work now to prove this Judgment Day you speak of, as I have done mine.

Rosewell.

There is a Hell of fire and brimstone for ever.

Coppin.

You would do well to prove what you mean by it, now before this people.

Rosewell.

You have here said that Christ was a sinner.

Coppin.

You said these words, I never said them, but said, that he was in himself holie, harmlesse, just, and good.

Rosewell.

You said the nature he did take was sinful, and you have denied the Resurrection of the Body, and do affirm, that all men shall be saved.

Coppin.

It is a sign there is no more in you to declare, because you go over with the same things again, and again; But how are you assured of your own salvation, tell me that?

Rosewell.

I do believe he hath saved me, and that one day he will do it.

Coppin.

If he hath done it alreadie, then it is no more to do, and it is better to believe that you are saved, then that you shall be saved.

CHAP. XIII. The practise of Magistrates and Ministers discovered, how they one uphold another, to serve not the Lord, but them∣selves.

ROsewell.

I hope those things need not proof, they are so clear to every intelligible man, I desire that we may be all hum∣bled for these things, and I desire to have nothing to do any more with this man, except I shall be called to it before a Magistrate, or the like, and then I shall labour to the utmost to vindicate the truth of God, and in my Preaching and Catechistical Exercises, I shall endeavour to meet with those damnable errours of his: And by the way, take notice of those which do sow errours among you, they be such as serve not the Lord Jesus, but their owne bellies, Rom. 16. 17. 18. Mark them which cause divisions, and avoid them. Now when men shall teach a Doctrine contrary to what the Church of God hath received in all Ages, and contrary to the judgment of hundreds in this place, which are juditious, we may ac∣count him a Blasphemer, he hath blasphemy in his forehead, woe be to them which testifie lies in the name of the Lord.

Coppin.

I shall return this back on your own head, and there∣by kill Golia with his own Sword, from these words, Rom. 16. Mark them which cause divisions and offences, contrary to the Do∣ctrine of Christ, and avoid them, for they are such who serve not the Lord Jesus, but their own bellies. Now let the people judge who they are, for which consider, that the Doctrine of Christ is a Doctrine of unitie, love, joy, and peace, amongst men, but some there are who have caused divisions, and offences, rail∣ings, and revilings, at this and other meetings, now and at other times, contrarie to this Doctrine of Christ, and who those are, I appeale to the people, as for my part, I know no man I have wronged amongst you, nor spoke evil of any, but in love to the Lord, the truth, and your soules; I have onelie de∣fended my selfe in the truth I delivered, it being so failed a∣gainst.

Rosewell.

Capt. Smith, Let's conclude, there will be no end.

Coppin.

I must speak a little more, therefore observe, they which preach for hire and lucre of worldly profit, serve not Christ, * 1.55 but their bellies, not the people, but themselves; See Micah 3. 5. 6. 7. Thus saith the Lord, concerning the Prophets, that make my people erre, that bite with their teeth, and cry peace, and he that puteth not into their mouthes, they even prepare warre against him, therefore night shall be unto you, that you shall not have a vision, and it shall be dark unto you, that you shall not divine, and the Sun shall goe downe over the Prophets, and the day shall be dark over them, then shall the Seers be ashamed, and the Diviners confounded, yea, they shall all cover their lips, for there is no answer of God: The Prophets are the Priests, the Seers are the Magistrates, and those joyn toge∣ther, one to keep up another, till the one shall be ashamed, and the other confounded, and so fall together.

Rosewell.

But read the 10. 11. verses, They build up Sion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquitie, the Heads thereof judg for reward, and the Priests thereof teach for hire, and the Prophets divine for money.

Coppin.

Truly I need not read it, you have read it for me, and it fits you well, the Seers and Heads thereof judg for reward, and you the Priests divine for money, and if they will not pay you, then prepare warre against them, sue them at the Law, have them before Magistrates, and cast them into prison, as you doe, and have done, and so serve not the Lord, but your own lusts, and for ten pound advancement in one place more then in ano∣ther, you will sell any people, or Parish; for which take one Scripture more, 2 Pet. 2. 1 But there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, denying the Lord that bought them, (ye them that denie him) and bring upon themselves swift destruction, and many shall follow their pernicious wayes, by reason of whom the truth shall be evill spoken of, and through covetousness shall they with fained words, make merchandize of you (sell you for profit) whose judgment of long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not, and are not those your Tythe-mongers, I shall leave to you all to judg?

French.

Doe you speak this by me, we have seldom halfe our Tythes paid us.

Coppin.

What are ye guiltie? Do your conscience accuse you? I name no man, but the Priests teach for hire, they bear rule by reason of their means, and let the people, who love to have it so, judg who they be. * 1.56

Rosewell.

I blesse God I am guiltlesse of this thing, of preaching for hire; but you do see many errours have been broached here, let me crave liberty for one word of prayer, and I have done.

Notes

• * 1.1

  1 Cor. 1. 27. 28
• * 1.2

  1 Cor. 5. 6. 7.
• * 1.3

  Eph. 5. 26. 27.
• * 1.4

  Rom. 11. 32.
• * 1.5

  2 Sam. 14: 14.
• * 1.6

  Iohn 11. 50
• * 1.7

  Heb. 10 14. 15 Chap. 7. 27.
• * 1.8

  Revel. 1. 17: 18
• * 1.9

  Phil. 3. 10: 11.
• * 1.10

  Rom: 1: 16: 17 2 Cor: 3: 18:
• * 1.11

  Ephes: 2: 1: Coll: 3: 1:
• * 1.12

  Revel: 20: 6:
• * 1.13

  Rom: 8: 10:
• * 1.14

  Iob 33.
• * 1.15

  Iob 27: Ch••p: 19: 9:
• * 1.16

  Chap: 7: 5: Chap: 6: 2: 3: 4 Chap: 16: 13:
• * 1.17

  Isa: 11: 5:
• * 1.18

  Christ a sign.
• * 1.19

  Rom. 6. 4.
• * 1.20

  Phil. 3. 2••.
• * 1.21

  2 Cor 4 7. 8: 9. 10. 11. 1 Coll. 24••
• * 1.22

  Of the Trini∣ty.
• * 1.23

  1 Iohn 5: 20:
• * 1.24

  Iohn 17: 23: Iohn 14: 26:
• * 1.25

  What is Re∣probation.
• * 1.26

  2 Cor. 13: 5:
• * 1.27

  The sin against the Holy Ghost.
• * 1.28

  Rom. 11. 32••
• * 1.29

  Rom. 1. 18.
• * 1.30

  Isa. 27▪ 4:
• * 1.31

  Acts 9: 1: 2, 3, 4, 5.
• * 1.32

  Iohn 3. 17: Rom. 5. 8: 18: Cha: 8: 33: 34: 1 Tim: 2.
• * 1.33

  ••om: 9: 25: 26
• * 1.34

  Isaiah 6: 10: 13
• * 1.35

  Ier: 31: 1: Rom: 11: 26:
• * 1.36

  1 Cor: 12▪ 12:
• * 1.37

  Psa: 2: 8. 1 Thes: 5: 1:
• * 1.38

  Titus 2. 11: 12
• * 1.39

  Iames 4: 11:
• * 1.40

  1 Cor: 2: 4: 5. Chap. 1. 23.
• * 1.41

  Luke 2. 14.
• * 1.42

  Isaiah 52. 7. Isaiah 40 1: 2.
• * 1.43

  Heb: 2: 9:
• * 1.44

  Isaiah 45: 22••
• * 1.45

  Isaiah 11: 9:
• * 1.46

  Isaiah 57: 16:
• * 1.47

  Isaiah 11. 2. 3: Iohn 9. 39.
• * 1.48

  1 Pet: 4. 17:
• * 1.49

  Mal. 3. 1. 2: 32▪
• * 1.50

  Revel. 20: 12:
• * 1.51

  Rom. 2. 15. 16:
• * 1.52

  2 Pet: 3. 8.
• * 1.53

  Rev l: 12. 9. 10
• * 1.54

  Iohn 5. 40: 45:
• * 1.55

  Ez. k: 34:
• * 1.56

  Ier. 5. 30: 31: