A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was

CHAP. II. That all men shall be saved, of Redemption out of Hell, and in what sense a mans good works doth him no good, and his bad works no hurt.

ROsewell.

He that doth perswade people to believe that all men shall be saved, he is a perverter of Scripture, a Blas∣phemer of Christ, and a venter of damnable errors; but you do so: ergo.

Coppin.

I denie your major Proposition, as to the Blasphemy, therefore prove it.

Rosewell.

By the way, take notice, he doth go about to maintain that all men shall be saved.

Coppin.

I do not yet tell you what I maintain, but I put you to prove-that part of your major Proposition.

Rosewell.

He that perswades people to believe that which the Scripture doth flatlie contradict, he is a perverter of Scripture; and a Blasphemer of Christ; but this, that all men shall be saved, is flatlie contradicted by Scripture, Mark 16. He that believes shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Coppin.

I shall answer your Proposition by another, what∣soever is the will of God, is not Blasphemy to affirm, but the will of God is the Salvation of all men, therefore to say that all men shall be saved, is not Blasphemy; and I prove it in the first of Tim. 2. 3. I will, saith God, that all men shall be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And it will be necessarie for you to declare what this Salvation and Damnation is, which

you speak of also, when it is, and whete it is, for I acknow∣ledge that he that believes shall be saved, and he that believes not, is condemned alreadie.

Rosewell.

This damnation is that of the soul, when it is sepa∣rated from the bodie: Secondly, when Christ shall come generallie at the last day, when the whole world of Rebrobates shall be cast into that lake of fire, which doth burn with brimstone, out of which there is no Redemption.

Coppin.

Pray prove that from thence there is no Redemp∣tion.

Rosewell.

Mat 25. The blessed shall go into everlasting life, and the wicked into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and * 1.1 his Angels.

Coppin.

I do also say, that the righteous shall have everlasting life, and the wicked shall have everlasting torment, but that doth not prove that there is no Salvation or Redemption out of hell, for the word everlasting, doth signifie for the time during, such a dispensation or administration of God to man; there∣fore if you have any Scripture to prove that there is no Re∣demption out of hell, as you have often made the people be∣lieve there is not, produce it now, or else friends never believe him, nor any of your Teachers more when they tell you so, ex∣cept they can prove it by Scripture: And trulie Sir, I had thought you had been a man better learned in Scripture, then you are, and seeing you cannot bring any proof for what you have said, I shall go on, and prove by Scripture, that from that hell (the Scripture makes mention of) there is Redemp∣tion.

Rosewell.

You do bring Scripture but to little purpose, only to glose your errors.

Coppin.

David saith, Thou hast not left my soul in hell, nei∣thor wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption; which shews, that there is a coming out from thence: And in Amos 9. 2. Though they dig down into hell, thence shall my hand take them, though they clime up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: So that the Lord will have men to come in his way, and not their own, they shall come to heaven, but through hell.

Captain Smith.

Mr. Coppin, pray prove how the word ever∣lasting

shall have an end, before you go any further.

Coppin.

I shall do it from the 17. of Gen. where God saith to Abrabam, I will make with thee an everlasting Covenant, and saith God, this is the Covenant I will make with thee, Every male shall be circumcised: And this Covenant upon these con∣ditions did last but for a time, for we read, that God did after∣wards make a new Covenant with us, that should never be ended. So in like manner the Priesthood of Aaron and ••is Sons was call'd an everlasting Priesthood, and yet that had a•• end, and was changed into the Priesthood of Christ, that abideth for ever and ever, and we are said to be changed from one e∣verlasting to another everlasting, which shews there are more everlastings then one, so that one everlasting is but the time du∣ring, of the same dispensation, under which we are for a time, until our change comes.

Rosewell.

We do speak concerning continuance in the place of torment and hell, in Scripture it hath several acceptations, the place you brought in Amos, I did intend to charge you with it for perverting it, for it is meant, that though he do clime never so high from God, he will bring them down, and dig never so deep to hide themselves, yet God will finde them out, and at the day of Judgement cast both body and soul of Reprobates into hell to be tormented; but Mr. Mayor, and the rest, may see your prastise is to pervert Scripture.

Coppin.

I conceive also that the place in Amos, of climing up to heaven, and digging down to hell, is meant, that what∣soever any man of himself can do, to save himself, or to bring himself to heaven, will not bring him thither, neither save him, but God will pull him down with all his works, and make them unprofitable to him; for he that goes any other way then by Christ, the door of life, he is a Thief and a Robber: Also * 1.2 whatsoever any man can do against himself to carry him to hell, shall not continue him there, but God will fetch him back again, and destroy all those wicked works that he hath done against his own salvation, according to that Scripture, * 1.3 Oh man thou hast destroyed thy self, but in me is thy help: So that destruction is to man for the time present here, while man is unacquainted with God.

Rosewell.

You say no good any man can do can help him, or do him any good, nor no evil he can do, can do him hurt; this o∣peneth a gap to all manner of wickedness, so that he may be as well in the bosome of a Harlot, as in holy duties towards God; but the contrary I do affirme, that good deeds do good to men in life and death, and after death it is said, man doth rest from his labours, and his works do follow him.

Coppin.

Man doth rest from his labour, and his works doth follow him, when he doth rest in Christ from the works of the * 1.4 Law, and is become dead to them: But Sir, I believe you have forgot that Scripture, who when ye have done all that you can, ye are unprofitable servants; & therefore I say, that all that * 1.5 man can do for or against himself, cannot further nor hinder his salvation by Christ, for Christ will have nothing to joyn with him to save a man, neither shall any thing be able to keep us from him, but though for a time man hath destroy∣ed himself, yet in God is his help; and this doth not thereby give any toleration to sin, for though their good works brings them not to heaven, yet they are profitable unto men * 1.6 as they are, and their bad works unprofitable; but the love of God in Christ Jesus manifested to them, keeps and constrains them from that which is evil.

Rosewell.

I am glad this Auditorie doth see sufficiently the car∣riage of this man in this thing, you may take notice he hath been be∣fore five several Judges of Assizes already.

Coppin.

Then I have been like to my Elder Brother Jesus Christ, who said, that as he was, so should we be brought before Judges and Rulers for his Names sake, and yet I shall, while I may, still continue in speaking and writing, to testifie to the world what the Lord for their sakes hath made known in me for truth.

Rosewell.

Those things you call truths of God, are nothing else but the lies of the devil, and if Mr. Mayor, and the rest think fit, I shall proceed no further, but conclude, for I could imploy my time far better in my Study; and I shall meet with you in my Cate∣chisical Exercises, which I intend to begin next Saturday, and Mr. Mayor, and the rest, and Souldiers, I shall present to you seve∣ral Catechismes to keep you from those damnable errors.

Coppin.

Have you been a Teacher of your people so long, and now do you begin to Catechize them, it seems your design is to keep them still in ignorance, to have them alwayes learn∣ing, but never come to the knowledge of the truth; and truly you that have been his hearers all this while, it hath been to lit∣tle purpose, that now you must turn back to be Catechized at last. Well Sir, if you have any more, go on.

Rosewell.

Yes, I have many things against you, but time will be but lost here to discover them with you, yet take one thing more.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Redemption from hell.
• * 1.2

  John 10: 14
• * 1.3

  Hosea 13: 9••
• * 1.4

  Heb: 4. 10.
• * 1.5

  Luke 17. 10.
• * 1.6

  Iob 35▪ 6. 7, 8.