A second true defence of the meer nonconformists against the untrue accusations, reasonings, and history of Dr. Edward Stillingfleet ... clearly proving that it is (not sin but) duty 1. not wilfully to commit the many sins of conformity, 2. not sacrilegiously to forsake the preaching of the Gospel, 3. not to cease publick worshipping of God, 4. to use needful pastoral helps for salvation ... / written by Richard Baxter ... ; with some notes on Mr. Joseph Glanviles Zealous and impartial Protestant, and Dr. L. Moulins character.

CHAP. III. The beginning of the Doctors unreasonable Accusations examined: His stating of the Case of Separation.

§ 1. THis much instead of an intelligible stating of our Contro∣versie he giveth us, Page 2. [By separation we mean nothing else, but withdrawing from the constant Communion of our Church, and joyning with Separate Congregations, for greater purity of worship, and bet∣ter means of Edification.] And may we be sene by this, that we under∣stand the difference.

1. Whether by [Our Church] he meant the Parochial Church, (and if so, whether some or all) or the Diocesan Church; or the Provincial, or the National, or all I know not. But I know well, that some withdraw from some Parish Churches which joyn with others. And some think they withdraw not from the Diocesan or Provincial, if they communi∣cate with any one Parish Church in the Diocess: And some renounce the Diocesan Church, which constantly joyn with the Parochial: And for the National Church, who can tell whether we have Communion with it, till we know what they mean by it? Indeed in the latter part, (after the long dispute) he condescendeth beyond expectation to explain that term; But its so as plainly to deny that there is any such thing as a Church of England in a Political sense, that hath any constitutive Regent part: But even there so late he maketh it not possible to us to know, whether we be members of the Church or not: For he maketh it to be but all the Christians and Churches in the Kingdom joyned by consent exprest by their Representatives in Parliament, under the same civil Go∣vernment and Rules of Religion (Doctrine, and Worship, and Govern∣ment) 1. As it is a Christian Kingdom, we are sure, that we are mem∣bers of it. 2. As it is all the Churches of the Kingdom consenting to the Scriptures, yea, and to Articles of Doctrine, and all that Christ or his Apostles taught, we are sure that we withdraw not from it: 3. But if every Chancellor, Dean, Commissary▪ Surrogate▪ &c. Or every forme or word or Ceremonie be essential to their Church, we cannot tell who is of it and who not? Or really whether any reject not some one forme, word or office? If every such thing be not essential, he never in all the book tels us what is, or how to know it, or who is of it.

§ 2. And the word [withdrawing] seemeth to imply former Com∣munion: And if so, he maketh all the Anabaptists, Independants▪ Presby∣terians, &c. Who never were of their Church, to be none of the Separ∣atists here meant.

But if by [withdrawing] he mean [not joyning in Communion] either he meaneth in the whole Communion or but in part: If the whole, then the many thousands that live in the Parishes and Communicate not in the Sacrament are no members of the Parish Church. And who knoweth then who are of their Church? And how few in many Parishes are of it, that yet pass for Members of the Church of England▪ And yet I that joyn with them am none of it, in their account.

And. 3. What meaneth he by [Constant Communion] I go to the Parish Church when sickness hindreth not, once a day; I go to the Sacrament, and am none of their Church. Thousands go but rarely, and thousands scarce at all, at least to the Sacrament, and these are of their Church and no separatists.

4. But perhaps the conjunction is explicative [and joyn with separate Congregations for greater purity, and Edification: If so, then he that never joyneth with them nor any other is none of the intended separatists. 2. Nor he that goeth to other Churches on other accounts than for puri∣ty of Worship and Edification (As Papists that go as to the only true Church for the Authority).

§ 3. But the utter ambiguity is in the word separate; And that you may understand it he explaineth it by repeating it. By separation he means withdrawing to separate Congregations. But the doubt is, which are the se∣parate Congregations. I named many sorts of Lawful and unlawful se∣parations, but he will not tell us which he meaneth by any intrea••y.

§. 4. I would my self yet that I may be understood, tell the reader what sorts of separation I renounce and what I own: But I have done it so oft and largely, that I am ashamed to repeat it, as oft as mens confusion calls me to it. The reader who thinks it worth his labour, may see it done in my first Plea for Peace, and in the Preface to my Cath. Theol. and special∣ly in the beginning of the third Part of my Treat. of Concord, and in Christ. Direct. And he calls me here afterward to the same

Certainly it is only sinful separation that is in the question; and as cer∣tainly there are many sorts not sinful. I am locally separate from all Churches save that where I am. I morally separate from the Roman Church as an unlawful Policy, and all other which are in specie against Gods word: I separate from some for Heresie as being not capable matter of a Church, while they own not all the Essence of Christianity. I separate from some

as Imposing sin, and refusing my Communion without it. I separate from some as having no lawful Pastors; some being uncapable matter, and some, being usurpers that have no true call: I separate from some only so far as to prefer a better rebus sic stantibus; sometime a better as to the Doctrine, sometime as to the Worship, sometime as to the Discipline sometime and mostly as to the Pastors worth and work; some go from their own Parish, because the Minister is very ignorant in comparison of another to whom they go: some that hear the Minister preach against pre∣ciseness and for Ceremonies, had rather hear another that calleth them to holiness: some that have tollerable Preachers go to Doctor Stilling sleet and Doctor Tillotson as better: some go for neerness to another Church. Some go from their own Parish because the Minister cuts the Common∣prayer too short, and Preacheth too long; some because they would have it so, go to such: some because the Parson is an Arminian; others because he is contrary. Some go to the Minister that is strict in keeping the scan∣dalous from the Sacrament: some therefore go from him: some remove their Dwellings or Lodgings for these ends; and some do not: some go from their own Parish for the benefit of the Organs in another. And of old, when Nonconformists had Parish Churches and used some part of the Liturgy, many went to them from their own Parishes. Some of these are lawful, some are unlawful: Most certainly they that go from their own Parishes, yea, or to Nonconformists Assemblies, in London, go not all on the same account: Nor doth the Doctor and such other separate from me as I am said to do from them, but otherwise and much more.

§. 5. If he would first have told us what Separation is sinful; secondly▪ and then have proved us guilty of it, instead of the confused talk of Separation, and a begging the question by suposing that to be sinful, which he will neither discribe, nor prove such, it had been of some usefulness to our conviction. But I confess I never liked those Physitians who give their Patients the Medicines that they are best stored with, or they can best spare, be the disease whatsoever; Nor the disputer that poureth out what he is best furnished to say, how useless soever to the reader or to the Cause. Dis∣puteing should not be like boys playing at Dust point, who cover their Points in a great heap of Dust, and then throw Stones or Cudgels at it, and he that first uncovereth them wins them. Dusty heaps of ambigu∣ous words confusedly poured out, befriend not Truth that should be Na∣ked, nor the reader.

§. 6. Some thought it was the Place called Conventicle houses, which made the Conformists call us Separatists; and they got oft into Parish Churches and Chappells. But these were made the worst of separatists,

and punished the more. And doubletss it is not meeting at any of the new Tabernacles, nor at the Spittle, nor at Sturbridge Fair, where Preach∣ing hath long been used, nor in a Prison nor at the Gallows to Pris∣oners and People, which are faulty Separation.

§. 7. Some thought that they meant that its want of the Common∣prayer that maketh us Separatists; and they have tryed and read the Com∣mon-prayer in their Assemblys: But these have been accused and suffered the more. And even Mr. Cheny was forced to fly his Country for read∣ing it, and Preaching in an unlicensed meeting. And some reading more and some less, by this it will not be known who are the Separa∣tists; The old Nonconformists in their Parish Churches read some more, some less, and now some Conformists vary. They say a Conformist at Greenwich keepeth up a Common-prayer Conventicle; some Conformists are accused for overpassing much: One lately suspended for wearing the Surplice too seldom, and refusing to pray for [our gratious Queen and James Duke of York.] How much of this goeth to make a Separatist?

§. 8. Some thought it was want of the Magistrates leave that made them call us separatists: But when the King Licensed us, the accusation was the same: yea Mr. Hinkley and many others tell you, that they took this for worst of all.

§. 9. Some say it is want of the Bishops Licence: But as Mr. Tho. Gouge hath his University Licence, and I have Bishop Sheldon's Licence (I think not invalidate) and yet this goeth for no justification of us; so is it with others.

§. 10. Some think that it is a Conventicle as described by their Can∣non that must make us Separatists, which is of men that call themselves of another Church. But that's not it: Mr. Gouge, Mr. Poole, Mr. Humphrey, and my self, and abundance more that never gathered any Church, nor called our selves of any other then their own, are nevertheless separatists in these mens account.

§. 11. They that remembred what was called Separation in England of old, supposed it had these two degrees, which made men called Brownists. First falsly taking the Parish Ministers and Churches for no true Ministers and Churches of Christ, and therefore not to be Communicated with. Se∣condly or (in the lower rank) falsly taking the faults of the Parish Mi∣nisters and Churches to be so great, that its a sin to have ordinary Commu∣nion with them. But they that have still disclaimed both these are Separa∣tists still in our Accusers sence.

§. 12. Some thought that ordinary Communicating in the Parish Churches and pleading for it, would prove us no separatists with them. But this

will not serve as my own and many other mens Experience proveth.

§. 13. I am called after to say more of this: The sum of my separation is this. First that I take not the Parish Churches to be the only Churches that I must Communicate with, and will not confine my Communion to them alone, as if they were a sect, or All: But will also have Communion with Dutch, French or Nonconformists.

2. I take not the Order, Discipline and mode of worship in the Parish Churches, nor the Preaching of very many Parsons, Vicars and Curates, to be the best and most desirable.

3. I take those to be no true Political Churches, which have no Past∣ors that have all the Qualifications, and Call, and Authority, which is Essential to the Office; and therefore can communicate with them, but as with a flock without a Pastor, or an Oratory, Community or Catechi∣zed Company.

4. I live peaceably under such Bishops as have many hundred Parishes, and no Episcopos Gregis, true Bishops and Pastoral Churches under them, as they think: But I own not their Constitution.

5. I joyn with all the Churches in England as Associated for mutual help and Concord in all that the Scripture prescribeth, and in all the Pro∣testant Religion, and all that all Christian Churches are agreed in, and all that is truly needful to the ends of Christianity: But not absolute∣ly in all, which their Canons, Liturgy &c. conttaine: Especially their sin∣ful Impositions, and their Presumtious Canonical Excommunications of dis∣senters ipso facto.

6. I am one of the Christian Kingdom of England, as under the King according to the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy; and am for obeying the Laws and Rules in all things lawfully belonging to their Power to command. But not for obeying them in sin, against God, nor for believ∣ing all to be Lawful because they command it; nor for their taking down Family Government or self Government, and discerning private Judgment of the subjects. This is my measure of separation.

§ 14. And I think in cases that concern our own and many mens Salva∣tion we should have leave freely to speak for our selves; and not be used as we are, that must neither be endured to be silent, or to speak. Let this Dr. open our case to you himself, saith he [Pref. p. 36. Speaking of my first Plea for Peace [As though it had been designed on purpose to represent the Cler∣gy of our Church as a Company of Notorious, Lying and Perjured Villains for Conforming to the Laws of the Land and orders established among us: For there are no less than thi••ty tremendous aggravations of the sin of Conformity set down in it and all this done without the 〈…〉〈…〉 provocation given on oue side] And els∣where

he saith he shall less regard my aggravations.

Ans. 1. If I do that which you think as bad, I would gladly be told of it (though false accusations I desire not) And impenitence is too soon learnt without a Teacher or Academical degrees, and I had rather be sav∣ed from it. 2. But Reader I once more appeal to the Judgment of all reason and humanity as well as Christianity, to decide the case of this Accusation.

1. We did in, 1660. and 1661. All that we were able by labour pe∣tition and yielding as far as we durst for fear of sin and Hell, to have been united and lived in Church Concord with the Episcopal party.

2. When our labour and hopes were frustrate and two thousand of us cast out of the Ministery, and afterwards laws made against us as Con∣venticlers, first for our Fining, Imprisonment, and then Banishment, and after besides Imprisonment to pay twenty pound the first Sermon, and forty pound the next and so on; when after this the Law that banished us from all Cities, Corporations, &c. and places where we lately Preach∣ed, did most deeply accuse us as the cause; I never wrote so much as the reasons of our dissent: When by the execution of these Laws we were by Informers and others used, as is well known, I was still silent. My not conforming shewed my dissent, but I durst not so much as once tell them why, lest it should more exasperate them.

3. At last I was often told that the Bishop that first forbad my Preach∣ing, and many others after him, oft said to Great men, Mr. Baxter keeps up a Schism, and yet holds all our conformity lawful, save renouncing a rebellious Covenant. And I yet continued silent.

4. At last they wrote against us, that we durst not say that any part of Conformity was sin, but only inconvenient.

5. Then many pulpits and books proclaim▪ that we against our Con∣sciences kept up a Schism, for a baffled cause which we had nothing to say for.

6. All this while Lords and Commons used to ask us, what is it that you would have, and what keepeth you from Conformity. [In private talk, but would never allow us to speak for our selves and give the world or Par∣liament our reasons].

7. Many years together Pulpits and Printed Books of the Clergy, cryed out to the Magistrates to execute the Laws against us, (and as one said set fire to the Fagot)▪ and blamed them for not doing it.

8. When the King gave us his Licence, they were greatly offended, as aforesaid.

9. At last one great Bishop told me that he would desire the King to

constraine us to give our reasons, and not keep up a Schism, and not tell for what. And another greater told me, that the King took us to be not sincere, that would not give our reasons. And all this while I durst not give them, as knowing how they would be received.

10. When the Bishops kept me from Preaching and gave me leisure, I wrote. 1. An Apology for our Preaching, 2 A Treatise of Episcopa∣cy and divers other such, and yet durst not Print them (nor indeed could do it.)

11. At last after about seventeen or eighteen years silence▪ by such importunity (and the Press being more open) I ventured first but to write my first Plea for Peace, which only nameth matter of Fact, and our bare Judgment, enumerating the things which we think sin, without our Arguments, lest it should provoke them more. And there∣in professed that (knowing mens different Educations, studies, interests, &c.) I did not by this accuse the Conformists, nor the Law makers, but only tell. 1. What I thought would be sin in us, 2. And how great a sin, if we conformed.

Reader, should I have stayed longer (the smal Tract of Sacrilegious desertion of the Ministry, came out when we were licensed, but ventured not to name the matters of our Nonconformity) what could we do less? I staid till I think half the silenced Ministers were dead. Is the call of su∣periours, the Interest of our Ministry, and Consciences of so little re∣gard as that I must not tell men that so loud and long had asked, whats the matter? Must we neither be silent nor speak?

And now see here. 1. If Dean Stillingfleet be a man to be believed in such accusations, [All this was done by me, without the least provocation on their side] wonderful difference! Is my naming what I think God forbids me, so great a provocation to them, and is all this for seventeen years before named [not the least provocation to us on their part? What shall one think could bring such a man to such a word?

2. And that which I profest that I wrote not to accuse them, he tells you was [as if designed to represent them as a Company of notorious lying▪ Perjured Villains. This Collection I feared; But how could I avoid it? Must not I tell them that urge me, what sin I fear, least they say you re∣present us as such?

3. See here how they talk of us contrarily as the Barbarians of Paul, that now make him a Murderer, and anon a God; For many years to∣gether, our Lords and Masters perswaded men that we took Conformi∣ty to be no sin, save renouncing the Covenant: And now how Contra∣ry? Its the representation of a Company of notorious, lying, perjur∣ed,

Villains, with thirty tremendous aggravations. Repent O England, saith Bradford at the stake. But who would have thought that Repen∣tance had been so hard a work, in a case called so heynous, and that to the Preachers of Repentance, as it is either to them or to us, which ever it be that is found in the guilt.