A reply to Dr. Mortons generall Defence of three nocent [sic] ceremonies viz. the surplice, crosse in baptisme, and kneeling at the receiving of the sacramentall elements of bread and wine.

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Title
A reply to Dr. Mortons generall Defence of three nocent [sic] ceremonies viz. the surplice, crosse in baptisme, and kneeling at the receiving of the sacramentall elements of bread and wine.
Author
Ames, William, 1576-1633.
Publication
[Amsterdam] :: Printed [by Giles Thorp],
in yeare 1622.
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Subject terms
Morton, Thomas, 1564-1659. -- Defence of the innocencie of the three ceremonies of the Church of England.
Church of England -- Customs and practices -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A19178.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A reply to Dr. Mortons generall Defence of three nocent [sic] ceremonies viz. the surplice, crosse in baptisme, and kneeling at the receiving of the sacramentall elements of bread and wine." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A19178.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 15, 2024.

Pages

SECT. VI.

THE last thing vvhich the Def. vvill take knowledge of, as alledged out of the Scriptures, in this point, is the exam∣ple of Hezekiah 2 King. 1 in breaking down the brazen Ser∣pent. This example is so famous, that he could not omit it: yet he knoweth not vvell what to say unto it.

First, he giveth fiue reasons for the abolishing of the brazen ser∣pent. As if any of us doubted, but that Hezekiah had reason enough for that he did: Or, as if there could not be reasons enough alled∣ged, and those almost the very same, for abolishing of our cere∣monies. Let them be abolished by publick authority, and I vvill undertake reasons to justifie, the action done, vvill easily be ac∣knowledged even of those that now can see none to perswade un∣to the doing of it.

Secondly, he propoundeth, as very observable, that Hezekiah did not abolish the idols vvhich Salomon suffered to be set up, be∣cause they were neglected. But 1 it may vvell be thought that those idols vvere destroyed by Hezekiah, and set up againe before the time of Iosiah, as many other superstitions were. 2 It cannot be doubted but they should haue been destroyed, even though they were for the time neglected: because either Hezekiah had as good cause to destroy them as Iosiah: or else he might haue prevented that cause which Iosiah had: and to prevent evill, we are as well bound, as to correct it.

Thirdly, he citeth Zanchius to proue, that this is not an univer∣sall remedy for all abuses of ceremonies. The place in Zanchie I cannot finde: neither skilleth it much. I grant the conclusion, it is not a remedy for all abuses of ceremonies, viz. for such as Gods appointment hath made necessary to be retayned. Besides the words of Zanchie heere cited by the Def. doe onely therfore seem to make for him, because they are not full enough against him. But in other places of the same book Zanchius judgement is plain enough, as p. 649 vvhere from this example he reproveth those that keep the reliques of superstition in some holy places; though they haue removed them out of Churches. And if about this matter the Def. doth ascribe any thing to the judgement of our

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divines, vvhy doth he not answer the testimonies of Augustine, Calvin, Martyr, Wolphius, Lavater, Zanchius, Sadeel, Iewel, Bilson, Fulk, Rainolds, Andrews, Perkins, alledged to this purpose in the Abridgement, p. 24?

Fourthly and lastly (vvhich onely in deed is to the purpose) the Def. vvould shew us a disparity betwixt the idolatry of the Iewes, and that of the Papists. The first is, that that idolatry of the Iewes was done publickely, and generally, and in the bowels of the same Church: but the Papists is not so. To which I answer 1 these circumstances are not rendred as reasons of the abolishing in the text, but invented by the Def. 2 private particular idolatry is to be removed as well as publick and generall: 3 all these circumstan∣ces did more then agree to our ceremonies in the beginning of our reformation. And sure they are not grown better since, by any good that they haue done.

The second difference vvhich the Def. imagineth, is that there was no other meanes to cure the idolatry of those times: but now there is. I answ. 1 this is the very question whether there be any other sufficient meanes to cure the disease of humane ceremo∣nies idolatrously abused beside abolishing. 2 It is a vaine imagi∣nation vvhereby this difference is confirmed, and no reason at all. In the Dominions of our Ezekias (saith the Def.) this disease would be found curable without any such extremity. But the expe∣rience of 50 or 60 yeares shew, that hitherto it is not cured nei∣ther in Ireland, nor Wales, to say nothing of England. Surely our Prelates are miserable Phisitions, that in a disease so easie to be cured, suffer the patients to languish under their hands, unto death. Especially (saith he) in this our most truely reformed Church, which doth most liuely expresse the face and full body of her primitiue mother Church. This he hath now 3 or 4 times repeated: as if he did de∣sire to make a question of it: and here propounds it vvith a doubt, if you will allow. It is not sit heere to make a long digres∣sion about this matter. In short therefore thus, vve allow with all thankefulnes, that our Church is to be called a reformed Church in regard of the main points of faith, which are purely and freely taught among us vvith publick approbation: and also in regard that the grossest superstitions are by publick authority cast out of our Assembles. But if our Ecclesiasticall government be con∣sidered, and some ceremonious superstions, wee deny utterly, that vve haue such a reformation therin, as may represent the face of the primitiue Church. Let the Defendant tell us, if ever the primitiue Church had such chanting idol service as is every day to be seen in our Cathedrall Churches? If there were in the primitiue Church Chancellors, Commissaries, Officials under the

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Bishops, which executed the censures of that Church? If he can shew any primitiue pompous Bishops that had sole authoritie of ordination & excommunication? If any Minister was called in the primitiue Ch. without expresse consent of the congreg. over which he vvas set? if Ministers vvere then vvont to goe to law for their places? if the Primitiue Church ever heard of Pluralists, Non-residents or dumb ministers? If either in primitue or else in Popish Church almost simony was ever so ordinary as it is with us? If ever so many prophane men, openly known to be contemners of Re∣ligion, vvere members of any primitiue Church, as are of ours? If ever he read of such carnall proceedings about Ecclesiasticall affaires in primitiue times, as are every day practised in our spiri∣tuall-courts? who tooke money for ordination, citation, abso∣lution, or change of pennance?

I will not insist on these things, because they are beside our pre∣sent question; but onely desire the Def. to behold this face which I haue described in a right glasse, and see if it be the face of the pure primitiue Church.

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