A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, prooved by the nonconformists principles Specially opposed vnto Dr. Ames, his Fresh suit against humane ceremonies, in the point of separation only. Also Dr. Laiton, Mr. Dayrel, and Mr. Bradshaw, are here answered, wherein they have written against us. With a table in the later end, of the principal occurrents in this treatise. By Iohn Canne, pastor of the ancient English church, in Amsterdam.

CHAP. IV. (Book 4)

THat the ministerie, worship, and church government of England, is not lawfullie to be joyned with, we have evidentlie allreadie proved by their owne Prin∣ciples: In this Chapter we will speake of their Church, observing still the former order, that is: 1. I will shewe their Tenets, touching a true visible Church. 2. How farre their English Church by their owne testimo∣nie differs from, and is contrary to it. 3. I will lay downe our inferences and conclusions. 4. Answer to such Objections, as may seeme to carie most weight a∣gainst them.

To let passe the strict significatiō of the word (church) and also the sundry acceptations of it; concerning true visible churches, the Nonconformists say, that there are none, but particular ordinarie congregations,† 1.1 such Chur∣ches, and such onlie, they affirme God erected, but as for Nationall, Provinciall, Diocesan, they are now of hu∣man institution, & altogether unjustifiable by the scrip∣tures. The author, institutor, and framer of every true visible Church,a 1.2 is only Christ: for he alone hath the disposing of the word, vouchsafing it to some, and

denying it to others; and it is his spirit, which con∣verteth mens soules, and begetteth them to ever∣lasting life, and so they become stones for this building.

For the persons whereof the same are constituted, they ought to be a Faithfull People, calledb 1.3 and separated from the world, and the false worship, and the wayes thereof. Such I say as keepe the Commaundements of God, and the faith of Iesus; for how else should the Church be, the House, Mountaine, and Temple of the eternal God, his Vinyard, Kingdom, Heritage, and enclosed Garden, the body of Christ, his spcuse, love, sister, Queene; a chosen generation, a holy nation, a peculiar people, and the joy of the whole Earth. Howsoever therefore there may be Hypocrites, which beare the face of god∣lie men in the church, whose wickednesse is onelie knowne to God, and so cannot be discovered by men, yet in the churches of Christ, there ought to be admit∣ted no drunkard, no whoremonger, &c. at least, which are knowne, because the temple of God must be kept as neere as it is possible, free, and clean from all pollu∣tions, and prophanations whatsoever.

The meanes whereby men are made fitte for this Church of God, is by the word, when they have well proffited by hearing the same, they are then freely, and of their owne accord, to present themselves to the Lord, that is, either to joyne themselves to some true Church already constituted, or by voluntary pro∣fession of faith, and obedience of Christ, to knit themselues together in a spirituall outward societie or

* 1.4 body politick; Now everie true particular congre∣gation assembled lawfully in the name of Christ, is an independent body, and hath by Christs ordinaunce pow∣er to performe all publick worship, for unto it apper∣taineth the covenant, the worship, the sacraments, and all ecclesiasticall discipline, having also the promises of peace, love, glory, and salvation, and of the presence of God, and his continuall protection, and for this cause, it is the dutie of everie faithfull christian, to make himselfe actually a member thereof. 1, In re∣spect of Gods institution, Matth. 18. 17. in which not onely the precept is contained: but a certaine ne∣cessitie of the meanes. 2. In respect of the presence of God, & of Christ. For if we wil com to God, we ought then to com to that place where his presence is in a spe∣ciall manner, & where he is to be found, of all such as secke him with the whole heart. 3. In respect of Gods glorie, the which by this meanes is publikely propaga∣ted,* 1.5 and advanced; For as the name of God in the old Testament was placed in Ierusalem, so now it is in the Churches of the Saints, although not in this or that* 1.6 place. 4. In respect of Gods covenant and promise, for those which are in the Church, are directlie (as it were) joyned to his blessings, the which are there powred forth abundantlie upon them. 5. In respect of our profession, for otherwise it cannot be, but those evi∣dences* 1.7 will be darkened, whereby the faithfull are dis∣cerned from unbeleevers. 6. In respect of mutuall edification, which necessarily followes, upon our joy∣ning together in the fellowship of the Gospell.

Touching the manner and order of this joyning unto true visible Churches, the Nonconformists doe* 1.8 describe it thus: He which is to be received, first is to goe to the Elders of the Church, to be well informed and instructed by them, and to have his cause by them propounded to the congregation, afterwards he is to come himselfe into the publike assemblie, all men looking upon him with love and joy, as upon one that commeth to be maryed, and there he is to make a pro∣fession of Faith, and to be asked sundrie needfull questions, to which he having well answered, and beeing found worthie, by the consent of the whole Church, is joy∣fullie to be taken into their communion; and this they say, was the practise of the primitive Churches: For* 1.9 Eusebius reporteth in his Ecclesisticall Historie, that a Romane Emperour, named Philip (who first became a* 1.10 Christian of all the Emperours, and first submitted the Romane Empire unto Christ desireing to communi∣cate with the rest of the Church, was not admitted, before he had openlie made profession of true religion.

When a people are thus established, in the faith and order of the Gospell, their care then must be to walk unreproovablie. and as in the naturall body, everie several member is (as it were) the member of every o∣ther, in serving to their good, as the eie doth see, the* 1.11 hand doth take, the tongue doth speak, for the good of anie other member: so must it be in the church of God, everie person according to his place and calling ought to be as profitable unto the rest as he can, and* 1.12 specially their godly watchfulnesse must bee, to keepe

their communion clean and pure; and therefore no un∣holy person may partake with them in the holie sacra∣ments, but such onelie (as farre as men can judge by their outward profession) that doe belong truely unto Christ; When any one among them falls into sinne,* 1.13 he must be lovinglie admonished thereof, and brought to repentance, or else to be cutt of by excommunica∣tion, if he continue obstinate in his sinnes. How this* 1.14 dutie of brotherly admonition is to be performed, we have already shewed, this onely is to be added, viz. that it ought necessarily to be practised, & may not be omitted, for certainly the tolleration of known iniqui∣tie, is a greivous sin of the church, & in its own nature* 1.15 tendeth to the corruption thereof, yea it defiles the communion Hag. 2. 13. and everie one makes himself guilty of the pollution, which doth not indeavour as much as in him lyeth, to remoove such offences: In a word, this mixture which ariseth by tolleration, much hinders the comforte and edification of the godly.

As in all the rest, so in this point the Nonconformists and we, are of judgments alike, and it is our greate greife, that they will not joyne with us in practise also, and make themselves members of such true visible churches, as here they have well described, for so should Gods name be glorifyed, the Gospell propagated, Sa∣tans, and Antichrists Kingdome much weakened, and themselves obtaine mercie in the great day of the Lord. They pray, let thy Kingdome come, but how doe they thinke, that ever they shall behold the beauty and

glorie therof, seeing they resolve not to set their hands unto the raysing of it up, but doe leave the work who∣ly to the Magistrate: so that if the arme of flesh will not build a spirituall temple for the Lord, he is likelie for their part, to have none at all: but whether such cour∣ses will not prove ill at last, I leave it to themselves to thinke of.

SECT. II.

WE heard before what a true visible Church is, now it followes, that we shew how everie way contrarie to the former patterne, the English assemblies are said to be by the Nonconformists. First, they acknow∣ledge, that their reformation at first after Poperie, was* 1.16 not rightly founded, because neither then, nor ever since, was there any profession of Faith publickly made by the persons, which entred into Church estate, but in∣deed it was then held, and so it is at this present, a suf∣ficient* 1.17 thing to be members of their churches, if men come to their service and Sacraments, take the oath of al∣legeance, and be conformable to their wicked Ceremonies, whosoever doth this, passeth for a Protestant; howso∣ever in practise he be a Papist, Arminian, &c. yet is he more regarded then the most sincere Christians, whome they call Puritants. And by this meanes it is, that in the bosom of their church are swarmes of Atheists, Idolaters, Papists, erronious, and hereticall Sectaries, wit∣ches, Charmers, Sorcerers, murderers, theeves, adulterers,

* 1.18 lyars, blasphemers, oppressors, voluptuous persons, whose God is their bellie.

Moreover, such is the great ignorance of God, and his truth among them, that the greatest multitude by many parts, doe not understand the Lords prayer, or the articles of Faith, or the doctrine and vse of the Sacraments, there are not five, among five skore, which doe un∣derstand the necessarie grounds and principles of Re∣ligion,* 1.19 but many thousands, which are men & women growne, if a man aske them how they shallbe saved, they cannot tell.

Mr. Nichols esteemed a forward preacher amongst* 1.20 them saith. We finde by great experience (and I have now five and twenty yeeares observed it) that in those places where there is not preaching, and private conferring of the* 1.21 minister and the people; the most part have as litle know∣ledge of God and of Christ as Turks and Pagans, and to prove this, he gives an example in his own flock, for I have beene in a parish (saith he) of foure hundreth com∣municants, and marvelling that my preaching was so litle regarded, I tooke upon me to conferre with every man and woman, before they receaved the communion; and I asked them of Christ, what he was in his person? his office? how sinne came into the world? what punishment for sinne? what becomes of our bodies, beeing rotten in the graves? and lastly whether it were possible for a man to live so vp∣rightlie, that by well doeing he might win heaven? In all the former questions, I scarse found ten in the hundred to have any knowledge, but in the last question scarse one, but did affirme, that a mau migh be saved by his owne wel doing,

that he trusteth he did so live, that by Gods grace, he should obtaine everlasting life, by serving of God and good prayers.

And it is no wonder, that the condition of the people is generallie thus, seeing they thinke that all the service of God, to lie in churching, crossing, kneeling,* 1.22 and beeing houseled, (as they call it) at Easter; and as for preaching, they hould it a superfluous and needlesse ce∣remonie; and therefore when their service is done, they take it, they may Lawfullie goe out of the Church, though the minister be ready to goe into the pulpitt.

* 1.23 Moreover, they say, that the greatest number of their people, are so wicked and vile, that were it not to save their purses, and for the Lawes of the Kingdome, which doe constraine and compel them, to make some out∣ward profession, they would make none all. For as Mr. Fenner saith: Every man followeth the pride, cove∣tuousnesse, whor••d••me, drunkennesse of his own heart, and no man remembreth Ioseph; the barres are filled with pleadings, and the streets are full of the cryes of the poore, fullnesse of meat, and contempt is among us, and who considereth? yet if this our sinne were onely against men, and not against God, there might be some hope. But when the mouth of the blas∣phemous swearer is not tyed vp, and the hands of the idola∣trous generation of Atheists and prophane persons, be not chained, when the most holie and precious word of God, is manifestly contemned, the joyfull and heavenly tydings of salvation, so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foot, the true and faithfull messengers pursued, arraigned,

and divers wayes afflicted: then if the old world for mali∣tious imaginations; Sodom and Gomorra for pride, fullnesse of meat, and vnmercifullnesse; If Ierusalem for abusing Gods Prophets, & wilsu••nes were d••stroyd, what may we poor care∣lesse people loke for, if we doe not repent, but (as it is allmost vniversallie feared) speedy ruine, and vtter desolation.

Another saith: What Christian heart is so stony, that doth not mourne? what eye so dry, that doth not shed teares? yea rather gush out with teares, to consider and behold, the miserie of our supposed glor••••us Church, by the spirituall na∣kednesse, blindnesse, and povertie thereof? I meane the great ignorance, the superficiall worship of God, the fearefull blas∣phemies, and swearings in houses, and streets, so also the dire∣full cursings, the open contempt of the word and Sacraments, the wicked prophanations of the Lords dayes, the dishonour of superiours, the pride, the crueltie, the fornications, the cove∣tuousnesse,* 1.24 the vs••ries, and other the like abominations, all∣most as greivous, as either heretofore in the time, or now in the places of poperie, when and where there was no preaching at all of the Gospell.

* 1.25 It is also further testifyed, that the holy thinges a∣mong them, are prostituted, and sett open to adulterers, fornicators, drunkards, and all kind of vicious and sinful livers; They sett no porters at their church dores, to keepe out the polluted, but every uncleane person is* 1.26 permitted to enter freely. I say, all may come boldlie to the Lords supper; they looke after nothing but this, that they kneele, which if they doe but observe, be their life and religion then, what it will, it matters not. Thus are the misteries of God prophaned, in that, they

communicate with Papists, & other unclean people.

To draw unto a conclusion, not onlie are their con∣gregatiōs, said to be vnrightly constituted, & to be impure & vnholy lumps, but (which is the depth of misery) they* 1.27 have no meanes (as they stand) of reformation; for the wholesome remedies, appointed by the Lord, to keep out unworthie persons, to preserve pure and cleane Gods ordinances, and to take away offences, is not a∣mong them; and here the reader may see what the rea∣son is, that they say, the walls of Syon ly even with the* 1.28 ground, and they have not scarse the face of a Church. For if it be as these men report, it is Babel, no Bethel, which they have erected. I could name others of them, which write the same things, but we have enough, to rayse our conclusion; the which I will lay downe thus:

All true visible churches, gathered, and planted, accor∣ding to Gods word, consisted in their constitution of Saints onelie: But the Churches of England, after Poperie, were not so constituted, but on the conirarie for the greatest number, of prophane people, even mockers and contemners of reli∣gion, as Atheists, Idolaters, Sorcerers, Blasphemers, and all sorts of miscreants, and wicked livers. Therefore the Chur∣ches of England are not true visible churches, gathered, and planted, according to Gods Word.

There is never a part of this argument, that they can denye, unlesse they will let fall their owne Principles. For the assumtion, I make no question, but it will passe without exception, and none of them will have the face to oppose it, considering how generally the thing hath been affirmd, & stil is upon all occasiōs,

both in word and writing. Now that the Proposition may appeare as true also. I will prove the same, 1. by Scriptures, 2. by reasons, 3. by the testimonie of the Learned: Of all which in the next Section.

SECT. III.

IF we take a strict view, of all the Churches which the Lord hath constituted since the beginning of the world, it will appeare that at the orderly gathering and planting, the members of them were all holie and good. I here intend of visible & external holinesse, and so farre as men may judge, and not of that which is within, and and hid from us: For I doubt not, but in Gods sight the purest congregation on earth might consist at first of good and bad, and yet of men, every person to be judged truely faithfull, and sanctified, untill any one by* 1.29 his iniquitie, outwardly committed, appeared other∣wise. Not to speake of the Church of Angells, which God created in heaven, and which were all holy and good, till some by transgression fell away. Neither of it in Paradise, consisting of two persons, & both true be∣leevers. After the fall, the constitutiō of the•• church, in the covenant of grace, was of good matter, & such was the Lords care, to have the practise of it still preserved,* 1.30 that he thrusted out Kain from the same, for the great wickednesse, which he fell into.

The Lord sealed not up with Abraham, the seale of the righteousnesse of faith, untill he left his Fathers house.

and that idolatrous place, wherein he had lived; which* 1.31 signifieth to us, that all men must necessarily come out of the world, and from worldlie corruptions, or else they are uncapable to have a Church covenant in Christ, confirmed unto them of God.

* 1.32 As for the visible Churches, planted by the Apostles, it is evidēt, that in their collectiō, they consisted of, such & none other, as were called by the Gospell, confessed their sinnes, beleeved, walked in the spirit, and separated them∣selves from the false state, in which they stood members before. Such a beginning had the congregations in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Phillipp. Colosse, Thessalo∣nica, &c. & who dares affirm, that there was one man or woman admitted a member at the constitution of any of these Churches, which had beene known to be an il liver, and did not first manifest sound repentance thereof.

The matereall Temple was a tipe of the visible churches under the gospel, now we read that it was built from the verie foundation of costly stones, of Ce∣dars,* 1.33 Algum, Fi••••e, and the like choice and speciall trees, and those all prepared aforehand, hewed and per∣fect* 1.34 for the building, so that neither hammer nor axe, nor anie toole was to be heard in the house, in the building of it, no common or vile thing, was used towards it, nei∣ther might anie polluted person enter into it, and offer, untill he had repented, and embraced the faith, and been clensed from his filthinesse: by the gates of* 1.35 the house were Porters sett, to keep the unworthy out. Vpon the Altar there might be offered no uncleane

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beast, no nor that which was cleane, having a blemish upon it. What in all this was signifyed? Surely this: Such as will build a spirituall house for the Lord to dwell in, must be a holy people: for he is of that infi∣nite* 1.36 puritie, that he will not vouchsafe his speciall pre∣sence, unto profane companies, which joyne them∣selves together; and therefore let it be farr from all men to prepare a place for him, with such trash, or to de∣file his holy things with such uncleane persons, or to offende his nostrels with the stench of such sa∣crifices.

The reasons upon which our proposition is groun∣ded, are these, 1. All wicked men are forbidden ex∣presslie by the word of God, from meddling with his covenant or ordinances: Now if men to escape tempo∣rall punishment, are affraid to transgresse against the Lawes of worldly Princes. Much more fearefull should* 1.37 they be to breake his▪ who is the King of Kings, and will inflict for it, upon their soules and bodies torments e∣ternallie. 2. That which destroyeth a Church••, and makes it, either to become a false Church, or no church at all, cannot be a true Church, or be true matter wher∣of it is made: but men visiblie wicked, and prophane make the Church, a Synagoge of Satan, Babylon, Sodom, Aegypt; and so to be spued out, and removed. 3. It is a∣gainst sence and common reason, that a Church should be constituted of vnholie People; For as in a materiall* 1.38 house, the wood and stones must be first prepared, and then la••d orderlie in the building; So in the spiritual▪ men and women must by the word of God necessa∣rily

be first reformed, before they are any way fitt, to have any place therin. 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the church, are not to be ad∣mitted into it, neither is that Church, which is gathe∣thered of such persons, rightly constituted; But men of wicked conversation, have no right to the holy things of God in the Church, and therefore that Church,* 1.39 which is gathered of such, is not rightly constituted.* 1.40 5. They cannot performe the services and duties of members, for they are spirituallie dead. If a master* 1.41 will not covenant with one to be his servant, which hath in him no natural life: much lesse, &c. 6. They have not Christ for their head, and therefore cannot be of his bodie; For as in the natural bodie, there must be first a natural union of the parts with the head, be∣fore there can be any action of natural communion, between the head and the members, or one member and another; So in this spiritual bodie, the members* 1.42 must be first united with Christ the head, and become one with him, before they can any way partake in his benefits, or have communion one with another, as members of the same body under him the head. 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant; For* 1.43 as a woman, which hath been once a wife, cannot mary againe with another man, untill her first husband be deceased, or she from him lawfullie divorsed. so nei∣ther* 1.44 can these be maried to the Lord, till they have mor∣tifyed their corruptions, and put the world and Satan away, unto which before they were (as it were) ma∣ried 8. The Godlie and wicked are contraries, guided * 1.45

and led by different causes: Now two contraries are not capable of one, and the same forme.

Thirdly, for this we have the judgment of the learned also. There must be (saith Molierus a profession of true* 1.46 religton, and obedience yealded thereto, at least outward∣ly, to become a member of the visible Church. Beza saith,* 1.47 He is rightly joyned to the church, which separates himselfe from the wicked. Paul calls the Romans Saincts (saith Are∣tius) to put a difference between their former estate where∣in* 1.48 they lived, which was unholy and impure, and the con∣dition to which they were now called. Piscator affirmes, The matter of a particular church, to be a companie of beleevers. M^r. Iacob in his definition of Christs true* 1.49 visible Church, saith, that those which joyne in a spiritual outward society, or body Politick together, must be a faithfull people. M^r. Bradshaw saith, they must be a people, called and separated from the world, and the false worship, and* 1.50 wayes thereof, by the word. The same speaketh M^r. Attersoll, and alleageth these Scriptures for it, Gen. 4. 26, and 12. 1. Iosh. 24. 2. 3, & 23. 7. 8. Num. 6. 2. Lev. 20. 24. 26. Ioh. 15. 19. Act. 2 40. 41.

I could name many others,† 1.51 which write the same thing, but there is no use thereof. Onelie it cannot be amisse to shew, how the Church of England makes this, an Article of her Faith, as the Prelates have publi∣shed it in her behalfe.

* 1.52 The visible Church of Christ, is a congregation of Faith∣full men, in the which the pure word of God is preached, and the Sacraments dulie be ministred, according to Christs Or∣dinance, in all those things, that of necessitie are requisite to the same.

Thus the Proposition beeing proved, and the assump∣tion acknowledged to be true, the conclusion must needs stand firme (viz.) that the Churches of England are not true visible churches, rightly gathered, and planted, ac∣cording to the Scripture; and therefore by necessarie con∣sequence lawfully to be separated from.

Before I end this point, I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes, intyrelie made up, betweene the Incon∣formists, and Conformists, all concluding the forenamed position.

That Church which hath not a Lawfull ministery, is not a true visible Church: But the Church of England hath not a Lawfull ministerie; Ergo the church of England is not a true* 1.53 visible church.

The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists, as Burton, Sutcliffe, &c. The assumption is granted by the Nonconformists, as we have in the first chapter largelie shewed.

The true visible church of Christ, is a society of beleeving and Faithfull people, and a communion of Saints (so say the Conformists) but the church of England is not a society of* 1.54 beleeving and Faithfull people, a communion of Saints (thus write the Nonconform. see p. 169. &c.) Ergo, the church of Engl. is not a true visible church.

The true church is the Kings daughter, described in Psal. 45. But the church of England is not the Kings daughter, so described: Therefore the church of England is not the true* 1.55 church of Christ.

The Proposition is laid downe by the Conformists, wherby they prove Rome a false Church. The assump∣tion

is the Nonconformists: For if they say the truth, their members have not those qualities, belonging to the Kings daughter; neither their Preists nor people. See pag. 15. 16. 39. 137. 169. 170.

The true church of Christ is the Flock of Christ, but the church of England is not the true Flock of Christ▪ Therefore the church of England is not the true church of Christ.

* 1.56 The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable, Son. 1. 6. 7. Act. 20. 28. Ioh. 10. 16. The assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles, compared with Ioh. 10. 3. 4. 27. Christs flock heare his voyce, and know it, & follow it, but the Church of England, sub∣mitting to an vnlawfull ministerie, worship, and discipline, heare not Christs voyce, nor know, nor acknowledge, nor follow it, but the voyce of Antichrist.

* 1.57 The church of God doth keep the doctrine of the Apostles & Prophets, without addition, alteration, or corruption (thus the Conformists) But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, without addition, alteration▪ and corruption (say the Nonconformists, see pa. 108.) Ergo she is not the church of God.

* 1.58 No society can be termed Gods church, which retayneth not Gods true worship; (thus say the Conformists) But the church of England doth not retayn Gods true worship; (say the Nonconformists, see pag. 78. to 113.) Ergo she can∣not be termed Gods church.

* 1.59 The true church consisteth not of feirce Lyons, Wolves, Ty∣gers, and such like wild and feirce beasts, but of sheepe and Lambes, which learne of Christ, and are meeke, humble, gentle, &c. (so say the Conformists) But the English

church doth consist of Lyons, Wolves, Tygers, and such like wild, and feirce beasts, and not of sheepe and Lambes, which learne of Christ, and are m••eke, humble, gentle, &c. (thus affirme the Nonconformists, see pag. 31. &c. 145. 169. 170.) therefore it is not a true Church.

Here the reader seeth clearly, how the Conform: ma∣jors, and the Nonconform: minors, make up intyre Syllo∣gismes of Separatisme. And how they willbe able to unlose these knots, I know not, except by revoking ut∣terly their owne grounds; which if either of them doe, yet I doubt not, but we shall well enough be able to maintaine them against men.

SECT. IV.

NOw we come to take a view, of such exceptions, as may seeme to cary most weight, against our for∣mer conclusion; And these are laid down cheifly by M^r. Dayrell, in his treatise of the Church: this man made a shift, to fill up there, with words, above thirty sheets of paper; The which subject, if some men had tooke in hand, they would easily have comprised all the matter of it, in 12. or 14. leaves. My purpose is not to follow him, in his idle repetitions, neither to speake much of his contradictions, & absurdities, but in short to give a full answer to his tedious & tyresome discourses. Tou∣ching the description, which he makes of a visible church, he saith thus: All that be, and remaine vnder the* 1.60 voyce, and call of God, that is, the ministerie of the word, &c. be of the visible church.

Answ. This is a false and prophane errour; for first, then the vilest Hereticks that ever have beene in the world, may be members thereof, as the Appellites, Cer∣donians, Macedonians, Paternians, Patricians, &c. such as held two contrarie beginnings, or Gods, the one good, the other evill; such as held, that Christ is not rysen from the dead; denyed the Holy Ghost to be God; af∣firmed the bodie to be created of the devill, &c. 2. Then may excommunicate persons be of the church, before they acknowledge their sinnes; yea Tu••••es, Iews, and Infidles. 3. Whereto leadeth this Position, but in∣deed to make the Church a very stincking ditch, to re∣ceave* 1.61 all filthinesse, and to be like the whorish woman, which openeth her knees to every passenger, contrarie to the patterne, given us of God, Rev. 21. ult. 4. If this were true, then should no man for any offence be censured, so long as he remaines vnder the voyce and call of God; For that which is enough to state one in the Church, is enough to keepe him there still, if he retaine it. 5. He speakes contrary to the judgement of all Reformists and Conformists, that ever I have heard or read of, and contrarie to his owne writing in other places: for in pag. 22. 35, &c. he defines a Church to be a company called out from the rest of the world, and such as doe submit them∣selves to the true worship of God. Now there is a great difference betweene this calling from the world, submit∣ting to the true worship of God, &c. and onely to be un∣der the ministerie of the word. 6. I cannot tell from whom M^r. Dayr▪ receaved this strange doctrine unlesse it were the Heretick Eunomius, which taught, that so

men were of his religion, it was no matter what their* 1.62 conversation was, nor how many sinnes they commit∣ted. He doth often affirme in his booke, that it is not* 1.63 Faith and repentance, but the Profession thereof, which is* 1.64 necessarie to the making of a member of the visible Church. Marke how blasphemously he speakes; in∣timating, if men with their mouth speake some few good wordes, they may be taken lawfullv into the Communion of the Saints, and partake with the rest in the Sacraments and Prayer; All be it knowne to be notorious murderers, theeves, traitors, sorcerers, witches, whore∣moungers, &c. and so resolved to live, and continue. It is very likely this M^r. Dayr. had a great Church, see∣ing he made the doore unto it, broad and wide, just* 1.65 like the way to hell.

I could here lay down many grosse absurdities, which might be truly concluded from his words, viz. that a Church cannot cast out some obstinate sinners, neither is she▪ and the world, to be distinguished, &c. but be∣cause the vanitie, and evill of this speach, is enough all∣ready shewed, I purposely passe them over.

We have seene one of M^r. Dayr. definitions; now* 1.66 followes another. Let there be an assembly, joyned to∣gether in prayer, hearing the word, and receaving the Sacra∣ments, according to Christs institution, and it is a true vi∣sible Church.

Answ. It is so indeed, and hence this argument a∣gainst them may be framed: If in the Ecclesiastical As∣semblies of England, there is neither prayer, preaching, nor sacraments administred, according to Christs institution, then

are they all false Churches: But the first is true, therefore the second.

The proposition hath sufficient confirmation, from their Principles, before named; the assumption is cer∣taine, and manifest, by the doctrine and description, which he here makes of a true visible church; and there lyeth against it no exception.

* 1.67 In the next page he delivers a Paradox (viz.) that men outwardly may submitt to true worship, and yet be irre∣ligious and prophane. Now this is either falsely or foo∣lishly spoken. If he meane of visible prophanesse, and irreligion, then it is a contradiction, and indeed plaine Nonsence; for to say, that a person, may outwardlie sub∣mitt to God, and yet outwardlie be prophane and un∣godly. If he intended of secret and inward irreligion of the heart; In this sence it is true, but answereth nothing at all to the matter, for which he brings it.

Here also he layeth downe Mr. ••insw. wordes, as he saith; unto which he makes no direct reply, but runnes to another matter, whereof he had now no cause at all to speake: He denyeth that either the Papists, or Ana∣baptists doe professe true Religion, although they professe, some true and sound doctrine. What moved him thus to thinke, I know not, unlesse it were because these have many errours in their religion; Now if this reason will stand firme, and good against them, then it must needs follow, that the Church of England professeth not true religion, though she prof••sse some true and sound doctrins, in regard she maintaineth many lyes, and vile errours. Mr. Gilb••e,† 1.68 a forward minister, reckoneth up, above se∣ven

score grosse points of poperie, remaining in their Church, and many others of them have don the like, as I have in this treatise manifested. And I think it would aske a better witt, and head, then ever Mr. Dayr. had, to proove, that there are halfe so many corruptions, in the religion professed by the Eng. Anabaptists.

From pag 41. to 51. there are certaine reasons (as he calls them) to prove the Church of Eng. and their Parish assemblies true visible churches. As for the first of them, I deny both the Proposition and Assumption; He saith: Whatsoever people or nation is within the dayly voice and call of God, &c. the same is a true visible Church. This is un∣truelie affirmed, as I have proved before; and for his speaking of it againe, it sheweth the more his igno∣rance in the way of God; For will any wise man take Lyons, Wolves, Foxes, &c. into his sheepsould? sow tares, or darnel, in his garden, plant thistles, or thornes, in his Or∣chard? The Church is the Lords speepcfowld, his garden, orchard, &c. and therefore if Mr. Dayr. had been so wise as he should, he would not have spoken so corruptly, but have given rather counsell to keepe out vncleane persons, considering what the Prophet saith: Holynes be∣commeth thy house o Iehovah, to length of dayes. Againe, we may perceive by his wordes, that he understood not the nature of a visible Church; For as to the constitution of it, there belongs a holie people, as the matter, so also a uniting and coupling of them together, which is the forme, whereof it consisteth: As the constitution of a common wealth, or of a cittie, is a gathering and knit∣ting of people together in a civill Policie; so the Con∣stitution

* 1.69 of the common wealth of Israel, (as the Church is called) and of the cittie of God the new Ierusalem, is a* 1.70 gathering and uniting of people into a spiritual Poli∣cie; The forme of which Policie is order, as the Philoso∣sophers acknowledged, calling Policie an order of a cit∣ty; which Order is requisite in every administration of* 1.71 the Church, as the Apostle teacheth; and cheifly in the collection thereof; And therefore next unto Faith in God, it is to be esteemed most necessarie, for all holie societies. This was one thing, for which Paul rejoyced* 1.72 in the Church at Collosse, as for their steadfast Faith in Christ, so their Order also. But Mr. Dayr. will have his Church without Order▪ or Forme; and what is it then, but a meere, at••xie, or confuse Chaos, a state onlie fitt for the devills Goates to be in, which desire liberty, and not* 1.73 for Christ sheepe, which are to make streight pathes to their feet.

He saith, there lyeth no exception against the As∣sumption. And why so? because their Pastors and Tea∣chers are true ministers. Me thinkes the man should have beene ashamed, to have begd so much at one time; But to let his folishnesse passe, we do deny them to be law∣full Officer••, and have brought their owne hands against them for it. Secondly, he writes here, against his brethren, yea (and I thinke) against his owne con∣science: For the greatest number of their Bb. Preists & Deacons, are dumb dogs, ignorant asses, &c. such as either* 1.74 cannot, or through pride, sullnesse bread, and abundance of* 1.75 idlenesse (Sodomes sinnes) will not preach; and therefore it is untruely said, that the people generally of England are

within the dayly voyce and call of God. 3. The later part of his reason, is wholie against himselfe; sor whereas his wordes import, that the people generally of England are impenitent sinners, and unbeleevers, it must follow necessarily, that they are alltogether uncapable of any Church estate, and so much we have formerly proved.* 1.76 Were it not a ridiculous thing, to set up a house with wood and stones, and afterward to take Axes, Sawes, Hammers, and other tooles, to cutt, saw, and fitt them for the building: yet such an unskilfull builder Mr. Dayr. sheweth himselfe in his whole booke. For hee will have idolaters, adulterers, theeves, conjurers, murderers, and any villain in the Land, to be placed in the Lords spirituall house, and afterward will have meanes used to prepare them for the same.

Not to contend about the proposition of his second ar∣gument, howbeit it is verie faulty. I denie the assump. viz. that the people of England doe injoy, and outwardly submit themselves to the true worship of God: for the worship which they have, is affirmed of the Noncon∣formists* 1.77 to be antichristian and unlawfull: but let us heare his reason.

If such as both in their life, and at theire death served God with the verie same worship we doe, have in that worship beene saved, then i•• the worship wee now have, true divine worship. But the first is true, therefore the second.

If Mr. Bradshaw had found such a reason in Mr. Iohnsons writing, he would surely have called him idle head, crackt braind, foole &c. but I leave such terms to men of his intemperate spirit, and doe thus answer.

2. A Papist, Arminian, or Anabaptist may say as much and upon as good ground, and who dares denie but manie of their religion, have found mercie with the Lord, must it therefore follow that their worship is good? indeed Mr. Dayr, logick so concludeth it. 2, Men* 1.78 may serve God with an outward worship, not agree∣able to his word, and yet be saved: for who knoweth how infinitely good hee is to his poore creature. 3. It is apparent this man had a very ill case in hand, that could not tell how to maintaine it, but by revea∣ling the secret and hid consell of the Lord: for I won∣der how he came to know who in their worship have beene saved: if he should say in the judgement of cha∣ritie he thinkes thus, then his argument must be of an another fashion, namely, that he thinkes their worship is true: for otherwise it will want shape and proportion. 4. It hath beene the constant practice of the godly, to proove their positions by the scriptures, but it is likely he saw that there was no helpe for him there, and therefore onely makes use of this reasonlesse reason.

His third argument is foolish and carnall; and both parts of it false. For first it is incident to the best and purest Churches upon earth to erre and to bee decei∣ved, and therefore their sentences and approbations must be examined by Gods word. 2. If the reformed Churches doe justifie the English, therein they condemne greately their owne practice: for in theire constitution, ministery, worship, and governement they are as opposite* 1.79 as light and darkenesse one to the other: and so much the Nonconformists confesse. 3. Seeing the Prophets

Christ and his Apostles condemne their Church, their case is never a whit the better, though all men in the world speake well of it. 4. The strictest professors, do hold the Church of England as it is Nationall, Provin∣ciall, and Diocessan, false: howbeit they thinke some particular congregations in the Land to bee true. 5. With such weapons as these doe the Papists fight: and where they can bring one, the others ten, to wit∣nesse for them, and their Romish superstitions. I meane* 1.80 antiquity, universality and such like popular reasons, whereby they seeke to uphold their cursed Kingdome. Lastly, it is untruely affirmed, that all the Churches of God in the world doe acknowledge the people of England to be a true Church. For there are many which have both professed and prooved the contrary.

Now for his last argument, I deny also both parts of it: and affirme that neither the mother nor daughters are true Churches▪ the reason which he layeth downe is, as the rest, sillie, and most impertinent to proove the thing for which he brings it. The summe and effect of that which hee hath written in five or sixe pages is this, that their worship and religion is true, because in Q. Maries dayes, divers Martyrs professed the same, and died in it.

Answ. 1. Here the thing in question is brought for confirmation: the Martyrs allowed of their worship, be it so, what then, should hee not yet have prooved the same to be lawfull? Yes doubtlesse, if hee would have written either according to rule, reason, or religi∣on. 2. If a Papist should suffer death under Heathen or

Turkes, because he would not denie Christ ••esus, wee think he may in some respect be judged a martyr, and yet the Romish worship which he professeth, remaine still false, and idolatrous. 3. I desire the Reader to marke how absurdly he speaketh: the thing which he under∣takes to proove, is, that their assemblies are true, for this he alleageth the Martyrs, now to what purpose I can not tell in the world: unlesse he meant that there was such vertue and efficacy in their sufferings, as the whole Nation thereby was sanctified, and made Churches. Lastly, this reason is one and the same, with that which he brought to confirme the second Syllogisme, save that for the more authority of it, hee addeth the name of the M••rtyrs, the insufficiency whereof I have there shewed and thither doe referre the Reader.

In the conclusion he saith, Answer me this one argu∣ment and so I end. If Mr. Hooper Mr. Bradford with others knowing the corruptions then in the worship and ministery, being the same also with ours now, notwithstanding this knowledge, and not separating, were saved: then men at this day notwithstanding their knowledge of the corruptions and not separating because of them, may likewise be saved. But the first is true: therefore the second.

Ans. His former reasons were not more false and foolish, than this is wicked and profane, for first, wherefore serves it, but in truth to teach men to cast off all care in seeking Gods glorie, by an even walking, and to doe so much of his will as is sufficient to bring them to heaven, and no more▪ thus he counselleth people to be lovers of themselves more than lovers of

God: yea to love God for themselves, and to serve him for a reward onely; but let all persons, in all places take heede, that they follow not this mans ad∣vice, for if they resolve to doe no more, but what they think will serve their turne to be saved, they will sure∣ly misse of that, and for their self love suffer wrath and vengeance eternally. 2 Howsoever Iwill not judge another mans servant, yet it is more then he or anie mortall man that can infalliblie tell, whether Mr. Bradford, Mr. Hooper and others were absolutely saved, and therefore hee reasoneth still most childishly, to prove his matter by things secret, and known to God onely. 3 When Luther, Calvin, and others left the Church of Rome, might not anie popish priest have said as much to them. If Mr. W. Mr. C. with others knowing the corruptions then in worship &c. Now I perceive if Mr. Dayr. had been in their place, he would not have separated from that Synagogue of Satan, and to speake the verie truth, he could not do it lawfully upon his own groundes. 4. That these men knew some corruptions to be in their worship & ministrie, I grant it, but not in that kinde and degree, which the Nonconformists since have manifested, for if they had certainly known that these things were un∣lawfull and antichristian, and their Church government taken wholly from the Pope: I beleeve they would not have joyned in spirituall communion therewith, & therfore Mr. Dair. shamfully abuseth the reader, to say the martyrs saw their corruptions, and they are the same which they have now: whereas he should have proved,

that they saw them according to the nature of them, and as his fellow brethren have since seene them, & affirmed them to be, for unlesse this can be shewed, they differ herein asmuch from the martyrs, as if one sinned ignorantly, aud another against his knowledge and conscience. 5. The saintes are taught of God, not to be servants of men, but to live by their owne faith, &* 1.81 to presse forward toward the mark. and therefore hee sheweth litle skill in the course of religion, to sette downe this, or that mans practise for a rule to walke by, unlesse he had professed himselfe to be a Familist or perfectist, and so would make the world beleeve, that none could erre which took such for example whom he prescribed to them. 6. I cannot tell for what end be propounded this argument, for imagin it should be granted him, that the Martyrs knew the corruptions of their Church, &c. and yet were saved: and so are many now in England, which understand the same: what would hee from hence conclude? I thinke there is no man on earth that knowes; if there be, they might doe well, at the next impression of his booke, to set it in the margin, for to cover what they can, the mans empty, naked, and absurd writing.

Mr. Dayr. having shewed his best skill, wit and lear∣ning, to proove their parish assemblies, true Churches: in his second booke (according to his division) hee at∣tempteth to confute the description which Mr. Barrow, and the Brownists (as he maliciously names Gods peo∣ple) have laid downe of a true visible Church: and a∣bout this point, hee writes more then an hundred and

fifty pages, all the matter whereof (leaving out his Bat∣talogies and impertinenr speeches) might well have beene written in sixe leaves of papier. But it seemes the man wanted no money, and therefore would make it up to his reader in Taile, what he could not doe in weight; forgetting in the meane time the proverbe, a little and good; and also what the learned use to say, The worth of a writing doth not consist in bulke and belly: but in the sinewes, veines, and arteries, which with good blood, and spirit, may be comprehended in a little body. But let us see how he confutes us.

First he layeth downe our definition of a true visible Church, which is, a company of people, called, and separa∣ted* 1.82 from the world, by the word of God, and joyned together by voluntary profession of the faith of Christ, in the fellow. ship of the Gospel.

Before we ••ome to examin the reasons (if they may be so termed) which he alleageth against this definition, I desire the reader to minde it well, that we herein do say no more, then what in effect is fully acknowled∣ged, by the Nonconformists,a 1.83 Conformists,b 1.84 the Church of England,c 1.85 the learned generally,d 1.86 and all the re∣formed Churchese 1.87 upon earth, as is to be seene in their books here named. Yea Mr. Brad.f 1.88 although no

friend of the Separatists, yet confesseth the whole, as it is here laid downe to be true and good. Notwithstan∣ding, this man commeth boldly forth against us, as if he had been either asleepe all his life time, or lived in some unknowne parts of the world, and so could not tell what any body had said about this thing.

And now for his reasons, in which he is as confu∣sed as is the subject for which he pleadeth: notwith∣standing such as I finde here and there, disorderly written of him, I will reduce into some particular heads. The maine and chiefe argument, wherewith he fighteth against us, for saying, a true visible Church is a company of people called and separated from the world. is, because hypocrites and reprobates may beein the Church. And to proove this, he is very large and tedious: for I dare say, more then halfe of his booke is spent about it; in alleaging for it, Scriptures, Examples and Reasons: But a few words will serve for answer to it; in regard he talkes of a thing, which neither helpes him, nor disadvantageth us, for the question betweene them and us, hath ever beene, about the true and naturall members, whereof Gods Church is orderly gathered, and planted: and not about the decayed and degene∣rate estate thereof. But of this he saith nothing: one∣ly reasoneth much to this purpose. If a mans body may have sores, boyles, broken limmes, &c. then is not the body whole and sound in the definition. If in a garden, vineyard, or orchard, after the constitution, there grow weeds, thornes, and thistles: then cannot the same in the description, be said to bee planted at first of all good herbes, vines and trees. But

the first is true: therefore the second. Now if such Philoso∣phie be to be laughed at, then truely much more is M^r. Dayr. Divinitie here to be pittyed: for he denieth our definition, to wit, that a true visible Church in the first collection consisteth of a people called and separated from the world: and why? because forsooth afterwards some of them may fall into unlawfull and sinfull courses.

If all our writings should bee read over, yet will it not be found, that ever we have denied; but many hy∣pocrites may be in the true Church, yea open and vile transgressours: but here lyeth the poynt, if any shall af∣firme, that the same may be first gathered, of knowne lewd, and unconverted men, that indeed wee deny utterly, and can proove the contrary: or if they shall say, that obstinate and incorrigible sinners, may lawful∣ly* 1.89 be suffered therein, this also we affirme to be untrue, But if they say, that in a true visible Church, there may be great evils committed, yea and a long time tolera∣ted, wee assent unto it. Howbeit it is certaine (as D^r. Ames saith) this forbearance is a grieveus sinne before God. If Mr. Dayr. therefore had well understood, what our negative and affirmative positions are, hee might have spared most of his writing. For throughout his booke, he hath most falsely reported of us, by insinuating as if we held all of the visible Church to be saved, and that no wickednesse therein can be committed: now our words tend onely to shew, what a Church is, and how every member ought to walke: but if in some respects they bee not so, yet may the Congregation notwith∣standing be true and good.

Mr. Dayr tells us verie often of the sinnes commit∣ted in the Iewish Church, so in Corinth, Pergamus, &c. If he were alive, I would aske him whether they did well herein; If he should say yea, then were he a blas∣phemer; if nay, then he gave us the whole cause, and so might cast his booke into the fyre. For the thinge which we affirm, is, that every member of the church ought to be holy, not that they are allwayes so, but should be so, and it is their great fault, they are other∣wise. And here the reader may observe how greatly he hath mistaken the matter: For whereas Mr. Barrow, Mr. Ainsw. and others, doe shew from the scriptures, what a true Church is, whereof gathered, how every mem∣ber should walke, & how abuses are to be reformed, &c. He (either through ignorance, or mallice, or both) still inferreth from their writings: that they held perfection of Churches, that there can be no Hypocrite or reprobate in the Church, &c. Things groundlesly collected of him.

Of the same nature are the reports, which many of them publish dayly in their Sermons and Bookes; namely that the main cause of our Separation is, because wicked men are suffered in their church. But this is untrue, for howsoever (as I said before) such a tolleration can not be justified; yet this is not properly the reason, but because their Parishes were at first constituted, as now they stand, of the members of Antichrist, to wit, the ido∣latrous Papists, and of all other kind of most notorious sinners, as whorems. witches, atheists, swearers, usurers, cursers, scoffers at religion, &c. This prophane multitude,

without any profession of faith and repentance, were forced and compelled by human authority in the be∣ginning of QElizabeths raigne, to be members of their Church, and so have continued, they and their seed e∣ver since: contrary to the expresse word of God* 1.90 and this is so evident and certaine, as the Nonconformists ac∣knowledge it most true, beside, we leave them in re∣spect of their ministery, worship, and Church government, which is also prooved unlawfull, and Antichristian by their owne testimony.

Another exception which he taketh against our de∣scription is, because we say, a people called by the word of God, this he denies to be true, and affirmes that men may come to be members of the visible Church, and not be called by the word, and therefore verie unfitly is it placed in the description of a visible Church▪ pag. 62. 63.

Ans. We need not wonder when a man undertakes to justifie a bad cause that he useth ordinarily vile, and profane arguments for it. First this which he affirmeth is directly against the Holy Scriptures of God.a 1.91 2. Con∣trarie to all example in the old and new Testament.b 1.92 3. Wholy against the doctrine of his brethren and fel∣low Preists, and the learned everie where. c 4. The

* 1.93 Scriptures which he names, are both untruly and unad∣visedly applyed of him, for first touching that in Exod. 12. 38. Howsoever many Egyptians and other nations were mooved by Gods workes shewed in Egypt, to go out with the Israelites, notwithstanding that they should bee all taken into actuall communion with the Church, it is onely his dreame: and no such thing can be truely gathered from the place: but the contrary is most probable, as I could (if there were any use) give many reasons for it: see Numb. 11. 4. And the like* 1.94 may be said unto the place in Est. ••. 17. and this also fur∣ther added how he knew (if any were received into the fellowship of the Saints) that the word of God, was not preached unto them by some meanes, in one measure or other, before their admission. As for the other texts, namely, Iohn 2. 23. and 4. 39. and 6. 26. His alleaging of them, plainely notes, that his knowledge was not much in these Scrip. Fort. Christ did not there cōstitute any visible Church. 2. The persons there spoken of, were most of them members by birth of a true Church. 3. Howsoever the things which hee mentioneth, as miracles, reports, &c. were great meanes to confirme the Gospel, and to draw people unto the hearing of the word, notwithstanding the word alone was the instru∣ment (Gods blessing going with it) whereby the peo∣ple were brought unto faith and repentance, Ioh. 4. 42: 4. But wherefore doth he instance these examples, see∣ing they are extraordinary, and therefore if it should be granted, as hee ignorantly understands the places: yet it will not follow, that there is any other outward

ordinary meanes to call men out of the world, beside the word: now of this ordinary meanes speakes the de∣finition onely. 5. Observe how the exception which he makes here against us, serves nothing to helpe his case; for if all the persons which he names, were recei∣ved into the visible Church, and say it was by some o∣ther meanes, beside the word, that mooved their hearts to obey the Lord therein; yet how can he proove, that these were outwardly wicked, and irreligious, knowne to be Idolaters, drunkards, sorcerers, mockers, lyers, blas∣phemers, &c. For unlesse he can manifest this, if all the rest were granted, yet will it not stead him a whit, to justifie the state of the English Church, which was ere∣cted after popery (as hee could not deny) of such vile varlets and uncleane creatures. It is therefore worth the noting, what ill speede Mr. Dayr. hath still in all his testimonies, and witnesses: for after he hath puld them in at the window, or backdoore by the haire of the head, yet this is his crosse, either they stand up against him, or are quite dumb▪ and speake not a word, touching the point for which he brings them▪

We heard what the reasons are, why Mr. Dayrell disliked our definition. Now before we come to the last part of his booke, there is somthing to be said touch∣ing the manner which he layes downe, of making of* 1.95 Churches by the sword, about this he begins with a tedious comparison of one that hath children and ser∣vants which be papists, and by threats will have them wor∣ship God aright, thereupon they frequent the Church assem∣blies and seeme outwardly to be religious, and are to be ac∣counted

of the visible church, and yet these came not to be of the Church by the call of the word &c. now may the mas∣ter and father doe this, and may not the magistrate? &c.

Ans. 1. Howsoever parents and masters, are to use all good means, that those which are under their govern∣ment may be religious & holy, yet have they not anie more power to make them members of Gods Church (if they be not under the visible covenant) then they have power to give them saving grace, & sanctification. 2. Whereas he saith, these come not to be of the vi∣sible Church, by the call of the word, that is untrue; For howsoever a person may come, to the place where a Church is; yet his comming simplie there, doth not immediately make him an actuall member of it, as he still ignorantly intimates; For those of his brethren, which were farre more judicious then himselfe, doe* 1.96 teach otherwise: when men doe profitt in hearing, then are they to be joyned to the Church. But it seemes if Hea∣then & Turkes, would have but come to his service and preaching, he would have acknowledged them to be part of his flock, albeit they manifested no repētance at all; If he should say, no, then were he contrarie to his owne saying here. 3. This Similitude is against him∣selfe; For first, the Magistrate did not commaund the Subjects, to goe unto Churches, formerly gathered, and there to be prepared by hearing. but forded them to be members; they beeing altogether and every way most unfitt. 2. The worship which they did, was not according to Gods word, but after the traditions and devises of men. 3. They neither outwardly seemed

religious, nor renounced Poperie, nor professed true re∣ligion, but in all this plainely shewed the contrarie, as we have before proved by their owne writings.

* 1.97 After this he makes a long narration, to justify this compulsion by the practise of the ••ings of I••dah: now this point by others hath beene so fullie answered, as one would thinke, that Mr. Dayr: should never have had the forehead once, to have named it, except he had been more able to refute their arguments. For answere to it: I deny that there is any true proportion between this Example; and the thing unto which they doe apply it. 1. The Iewish Church was nationall, but such are none now under the Gospell▪ neither Provinciall, nor Dioce∣san, as the Nonconformists doe say and prove. 2. How∣soever Iud..h fell fearfully into sinne, yet by vertue of the Lords covenant with her forefathers, faithfully on his part, remembred and kept, remained still the true Church of God, and was not (as Israel) quite broken-off, and therfore the Magistrate compelled not the people, to be members, but to perform the duties thereof, they beeing members truly before. Indeed if either Heze∣chiah, Iosiah, Asa, or Nehemiah, had forced the Fdomites, Aegyptians, Babylonians, &c. into the holy Temple, and there to have sacrificed to the Lord, it had been some∣thing like unto their practise; For the English nation, cō∣sisting of many sheires, citties, townes, and villages, was* 1.98 never within the Lords covenant, & holy in the roote▪ as Iudah was; Howbeit, it may be, many hundred yeares past, there were some true churches planted in the Land, by the preaching of the Gospell, and obedience

of faith. 3. The ministerie, worship, and church govern∣ment, unto which Iudah submitted, was the Lords, and the contrarie abolished by her good Governours, as the reader may see by these scriptures.† 1.99 But neither in the beginning of King Edwards, or Q. Elizabeths raigne, was there such a course taken, but the selfe same false ministerie, worship, and church government, left to stand, which the Romish beast, had before devised, and is at this day used in his cursed Kingdome, onely some few faults put out: and this themselves, when they write a∣gainst the Hierarchie, doe avouch boldly. 4. If we consider the Preists and people of the Iewes, it will appeare evidently, that there is no agreemēt or liknesse in the cōparison: For these separated themselvs frō the filthines of the heathen of the land,a 1.100 confessed their sinns, humbled their soules by fasting and prayer before the Lord,c 1.101 sanctifyed themselves,d 1.102 prepared their whole heart to seeke God,e 1.103 made a covenant with him, frejoyced at the oath,g 1.104 kept the passo∣ver with joy:h 1.105 But the English at first in every par∣ticular were much unlike these people, as appeares by the great rebellions, which they made in many places, because they thought that their idolatrous service should be put downe. Yea so unwilling were they to leave their idolatrie, as the Magistrate was saine to informe them by a proclamation how they did mistake his reformation.

It seemes to you (saith he, speaking of their Mattens and Evening song) that you have a new Service, now in∣deed it is no other but the olde, the selfesame words in Eng∣lish, which were in Latin,* 1.106 saving a few things taken out,

so fond, that it had been a shame to have heard them in Eng∣lish &c. If therefore the Service in the Church was good in Latin, it remaineth good in English, for nothing is altered, but to speake with knowledge, that which was ignorantly be∣fore uttered.

To be short, I would have them once to tell us, where they have learned to inforce and constraine men to be members of their Churches; I thinke they will not finde a president for it in the world, unlesse they take it from Mahomets doctrine:* 1.107 who taught that men should be compelled to the faith by warre and sword. For all refor∣med Churches practice otherwise. There are no swine and dogs driven in among the Godly, but whosoever joynes; comes freely and voluntarily to them; some∣times Mr. Dayr. and his brethren, are all for these Chur∣ches, but when they see that their owne standing must needes be naught and foule, if the others be justifyed, then they will call back their words againe, and plead corruptly for themselves.

Mr. Dayr. hath one string yet left to his bow, the which if it should be broken too, then all the shooting would be mard. Be it granted (saith he) that all our parish assem∣blies* 1.108 were at first no true Churches, &c. yet notwithstanding now they may be, and indeed are true, seeing that ever since, above fifty yeares, we have beene partakers of the true word and Sacraments, and many of us effectually called thereby: and to drive this nayle into the readers head, he layes downe a similitude thus. There are many men in a house, but gotten into it, not through the doore whereby is the ordi∣nary passage into it, but by some back doore, or through the

window, or haply at some breach violently made into the same house, were it not extreame folly, or rather madnesse, because of this manner of entrance, to deny the inbeing of the afore∣said men in the house.

Answ. A man fallen into the water, will rather catch at a mote, thē willingly sinke: it is just so with this Mr. Dayr. being loth to fall under the controversie, which inconsiderately he took up; he talks of this thing and that: the which if they should be judiciously weighed, would be all foū•• as l••ight as vanity. To reply breifly, for it is not worth a long answer. First, if their Churches were false in the Constitution, then are they so still, because they stand in the very same state, and have not repented of the evill thereof, neither since have entered into any visible covenant with God, by publick, and voluntarie profession of faith. If two persons should make an adulterous covenant, who would deeme them, to be Lawfully man and wife, so long as they stood by vertue of that false agreement, which they made at first toge∣ther?

2. Their having of the word and Sacraments, proves no more their Churches to be true, then doth a true mans purse, in the hand of a theife, prove him to be an* 1.109 honest man. As the Lords Vessels were of old in tempo∣rall Babilon, so are there sundry of his Ordinances now in spirituall Babi••••n; and therefore the Papists can say the like, and all other Hereticks; if any should reply, but these have the word preached, in an vnlawfull ministery, and the Sacraments vnrightly administred: I answere,

the same may be said of the English assemblies, as the Nonconform. have soundly proved.

3. What their obedience is, the reader may partly guesse by comparing their profession and practise toge∣ther: The former is shewed in this treatise, and what* 1.110 the later is, all may see it at home, by their doings in England. As the Prophet said of Isra••l, let them lift up their eyes to the high places, and behold where they have not plaid the harlot. I could give many instances to shew what small cause they have to boast of their order and manner of walking. For first, they are not a people separated and called from the world; a dutie much urged in the scriptures,a 1.111 and practised allwayes by the saints.b 1.112 2. They are not free, but stand most slavishly under strange Lords, expresly against Gods commaundement.c 1.113 3. They worship the Lord not in the sincere order of the Gospell, but after an Idola∣trous and Popish manner, which is a fearfull and crying iniquity.d 1.114 4. Add hereunto the knowledge, which many of them have, that these things are evill. It is the saying of King Iames, that the Puritans are the founders* 1.115 and fathers▪ of the Brownists, the later (saith he) only bold••y putting in practise, what the former doc teach, but dare not p••rforme. For what end he wrote this, I let it passe, but the words in part are true: Our separation from the Church of England, is by their grounds certainly good and lawfull, and therefore they say, and doe not.† 1.116 Now what the reason of it is, I know not; unlesse to enjoy libertie, pleasure, profi••t, freinds, credit, and such wordly respects.

I doe omitt the fearefull apostasies, which sundry of them have made, from that obedience, unto which they were come, some for wives, others for riches, and many to avoyd persecution for the crosse of Christ. Besides, whome doe they take for greater enemies, then the Separatists? And why? because (as the King said) these boldly put in practise, what they doe teach, but dare not performe. And for this verie thinge, many of us have receaved most greevous injuries both from their tongues and hands, but the Lord forgive them for it.

4. Be it granted, that som of them are effectually called; what then. doe these make all the rest holie? not in the least: for as a handfull or bundle of corne, shuffled into a feild of weeds, though in it selfe, it may retaine the same nature, yet cannot make the feild a corne∣feild, so neither can a few good Christians, sanctifie the whole lump of the idolatrous & vile multitude in the Land, and make them to be the true Churches and people of God.

5. Touching his comparison, it is a begging foolish∣ly of the question; for first, let them prove themselves, to be in the house, and then they shall heare what we we will say of the window and backdoore.

From Pag. 212. to 237. he attempteth to prove, that men may Lawfully joyne in divine worship with the wicked. Touching this thinge, although it concernes not much our matter in hand, yet I will write a few wordes, in answere to his long talke in this Chapter.

First he sayth, that the Apostles had religious commu∣nion with infidels. But this is a false doctrine, for a man may preach the word and yet not have spirituall com∣munion with all which are present and heare the same, and this must necessarisy be so, because otherwise it would follow, that every one when he teacheth, com∣municates with the devill, for in likelihood he is con∣stantly there with the rest: indeed M^r. Dayrels words import no lesse, but I hope he hath not left any behind him, of so corrupt and vile a judgement.

2. He sets downe a manifest untruth: for we doe not affirme that there can be no religious communion▪ but with Members of a visible Church. our profession and practice daily is otherwise; yet so, that they be such persons, howbeit not in a Church state, yet to be judged to bee in the faith by their gracious and holy walking.

3. Whereas he affirmes, that we separate from them, because wicked and prophane people are suffered to come unto their worship: this also is untrue, for we leave them rather, because the worship it selse is wicked and prophane, as we have from their owne writings al∣ready shewed.

4. In page 220. he speakes enough to justifie our practice. for thus he writes. We may not have religious communion, or partake in divine worship, with Idolaters, in their false and idolatrous worship, Heathen or Antichristian, but must separate and come out from among them. And a little after he gives a reason. Idolaters and false worship∣pers, in their worship, doe not worship God, but indeed the

devill. not Christ, but Belial, &c. If this be true, in what a fearefull case then, are the people of the Land? who serve Christ by that idoll booke, considering the same is affirmed by the precisest of them, to be an idolatrous and false worship: yea and I am perswaded that this Mr. Dayr. would have said as much too, if he had written of it, against the Prelates.

5. By his owne confession, they are all levened, through the iniquity one of another. For thus he saith,* 1.117 The open sinne of a man, and impunity thereof, defileth them that have authority and power, to punish the delinquent, and doe it not, that is, maketh them also guilty of sinne, or to par∣take in that sinne. Now compare with this, their posi∣tions in page 134, &c. where it is acknowledged, that the authority and power to punish the delinquent, be∣longs wholly to the whole Church, and not to the Bh. Chancellours, Officials: Seeing therefore most horrible sinnes are openly committed among them, and no meanes of reformation is used by those which are there∣to onely called: It must needs follow, if Mr. Dayr. and his brethren speak the truth, that all their parishes are defiled, and they are guilty of each others sinnes, and doe constantly partake in the knowne transgressions one of another.

6. Whereas he would have us to proove that the place in Hag. 2. 13. 14. doth signifie spirituall pollution and that the Apostle in 1. Cor. 5. 6. by a little leven, &c. mea∣neth that the whole assembly may become guilty and defiled by open sinne.

I answer, These Scriptures are not onely by us thus

interpreted: but also by D. Ames and other learned* 1.118 men: and therefore herein, he hath them as much as us against him. The like might be said of other Scrip∣tures which he accuseth us of perverting; if it were needfull, I could shew how expositors do apply them as we do, and so do the Nonconformists in all their wri∣tings against the Church of England, notwithstan∣ding this man casteth out of his mouth stoods of re∣proaches after us. But this will appeare to be no new thing, if we take a view of their writings, which have stood for error and falshood; for when the truth hath brought for her defence, the evident Scriptures, Papists† 1.119 have beene wont to carpe at the allegations, and in∣terpretations of them, and challenge their adversaries for corrupting them; the formall Protestants* 1.120 in Eng∣land have done the like against the Reformists, and they now use the like colour against us: but how truely, let him judge, whose heart desires to know the truth in sinceritie. Onely I would have it observed, how prettily he prooves the Separatists to pervert the Scrip∣tures, to wit, because he understandeth them otherwise then they doe.

Concerning other passages in his booke, I judge them not worth an answer. If there be any, I am wil∣ling that he should take them for his advantage, which undertakes to make a reply unto the things which I have here written.

Notes

• † 1.1

  Offer for Confer. pag. 2. Dioces. Tri. p. 12. Neces. of Ref. p. 64, 65. First part of repl. in answ. to D. Down. Defen. l. 1. par. 2. p. 44, &c. & second repl. l. 3. chap. 1, p. 177, &c.
• a 1.2

  M. Clev. upon pro. ch. 9, ver. 1. p. 3.
• b 1.3

  M. Iaco. institut. of true vis. chur. pa. 7. M. Bradsh unreason. of separ. p. 107. Fall of B. p. 50. 1 T••. 3, 15. Esa. 2, 2. Zach. 8, 3. Esa. 5, 1. Song. 4, 12 Ephe. 4, 16 Son. 4, 10, 7 1 Pet. 2. 9. Psa. 48, 3. Protest. frō Scotl. p. 22. T. C. l. 1. p. 50. Neces. disc. p. 7. M. Bradsh unreas. of sep. p. 107. Mr. H. upon Psa. 110, ver. 3. fol. 396. T. C. l. 1. p. 51. M. Iacob•• institut. of true vis. ch. p. 2.
• * 1.4

  Mr. Bate p. 26. Offer for confer. p. 2 Ephe. 2, 12 R••. 9, 4, 5. 1 Cor. 5, 4 Luk. 1. 71. Zach. 2. 10 11. Mat. 28, ult. Protest. from Scot. p. 22. Dr. Ames de consc. l. 4, c. 24. p. 211 212 Rev. 1, 13
• * 1.5

  Psal. 65, 5, and 133, 3
• * 1.6

  1 Cor. 5. 12.
• * 1.7

  Heb. 10, 24, 25. 1 Cor. 11. 17, and 12, 25, 27. Rom. 1, 12
• * 1.8

  Fall of B. pa. 30. Curr. Chu. pow. p. 54
• * 1.9

  Lib. 6.
• * 1.10

  Neces. dis. p. 172. printed at Geneva.
• * 1.11

  Cartwr. Cate. of Christ. Rel. p. 303 304.
• * 1.12

  Neces. dis. p. 171. 172
• * 1.13

  T. C. l 1. p. 50.
• * 1.14

  See p. 130 138.
• * 1.15

  Rev. 2, 20. 1 Cor. 5, 6 Curr. chu. pow. p. 20. D. Ames de consc. l. 4, p. 212. 213.
• * 1.16

  Fall of B. p. 30, 31
• * 1.17

  Curt. chu. pow. p. 54
• * 1.18

  D. Chater. Serm. on Rom. 12, pag. 65, 66 Neces. dis. p. 33. Mr. Perk. on Mat. 6. ver. 9. p. 126, vol. 3.
• * 1.19

  Dialog. concern. strif. of the Chur. pa. 99, 100
• * 1.20

  Mr. Giffar. count. div pa. 48.
• * 1.21

  Plea of the inno∣cent. p. 218
• * 1.22

  Quest. cō∣cer. chur. of wom. pag. 63.
• * 1.23

  Mr. Hern. on Psa. 51, pag. 309. Cathol. confer. pag. 164. M. Giffard Dialog. between a Pap. and Prot. p. 38 Preface to his Coun∣terp.
• * 1.24

  Defen. of certain ar∣gum. ag. G. Powel pag. 61.
• * 1.25

  Neces. dis. p. 9••.
• * 1.26

  Plaine de∣clar. of Eccl. disc. p. 172. Curt. chu. pow. p. 40.
• * 1.27

  Neces. dis. p. 174.
• * 1.28

  Supplicat. pag. 67. 1 Admon.
• * 1.29

  D. Feild of the ch. p. 3, 4, &c. 2 Pet. 2, 4. Iude 6. Eccl. 7, 29.
• * 1.30

  Gen. 12, 1, and 17. Rom. 4, 11 Ioh. 15, 19 2 Pet. 1▪ 4.
• * 1.31

  Psa. 45, 11 Rev. 18. 4, 2 Cor. 6.
• * 1.32

  Rom. 1. 7. 1 cor. 1, 2, Gal. 3, 3, Ephes. 1, 13 Phil. 1, 1, Colos. 1, 2, 1 Thes. 1, 5, 9,
• * 1.33

  1 King, 6, 17, 18,
• * 1.34

  2 chro. 1, 8, 9.
• * 1.35

  2 chro. 23 19. Lev. 22, 19 and 27, 11.
• * 1.36

  Psa. 5, 4, 5, Hab. 1, 13.
• * 1.37

  Psa. 50. 16. Esa. 35, 8. Zach. 14, 21. Rev. 21, Vlt.
• * 1.38

  See Mat. 3, 2. Act. 2, 37. 41.
• * 1.39

  Mat. 7, 6.
• * 1.40

  Ephes. 2, 1
• * 1.41

  Rom. 12, 1 1 Pet. 2, 5.
• * 1.42

  Ioh. 15, 2, 4 5. Rom. 8.
• * 1.43

  Rom. 7, 2
• * 1.44

  Hos. 2, 19, 20.
• * 1.45

  Gal 5, 18.
• * 1.46

  In Psal. 15
• * 1.47

  Annot. in Act. 2, 40
• * 1.48

  In Rō. 1, 7
• * 1.49

  Volumen. Thes. Theolog. p. 356
• * 1.50

  Exposi. on Numb. 23 v. 9, p. 158
• † 1.51

  See Mr. Fenner Sacra. Theolog. l. 6, 0. 3, p. 90
• * 1.52

  Articl. of Relig. 19
• * 1.53

  Babel, not Beth. pag. 108, Challeng. chap. 1, p. 33, 34,
• * 1.54

  Sntcl. cha∣leng. p. 40, & answ. to the excep. p. 65
• * 1.55

  Burton in answ. to H. cholm. p. 100
• * 1.56

  Burton in the same booke pag 99.
• * 1.57

  Sutcliffe chaleng. ch. 1, pag. 6, Arg. 9.
• * 1.58

  The same booke, p. 13, Arg. 19
• * 1.59

  Id. p. 27, Arg. 52.
• * 1.60

  pa. 29. & 41
• * 1.61

  Eze. 16, 28
• * 1.62

  August. de Haeret.
• * 1.63

  ••. 54,
• * 1.64

  Pag. 244,
• * 1.65

  Mat. 7, 13,
• * 1.66

  Pag. 35,
• * 1.67

  Pag. 36.
• † 1.68

  In the table after Sold▪ of Barw.
• * 1.69

  Eph. 2, 12
• * 1.70

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Aristot 3, Polit. c. 1.
• * 1.71

  1 Cor. 14, 40
• * 1.72

  Col. 2, 5.
• * 1.73

  Heb 12, 13.
• * 1.74

  Eze. 16 49
• * 1.75

  See before pag. 43.
• * 1.76

  Pag, 176▪ 177.
• * 1.77

  See pag. 78. &c.
• * 1.78

  Rom. 9, 33.
• * 1.79

  1. Admo∣nition.
• * 1.80

  Bellarm. de notis Eccles.
• * 1.81

  Phil. 3.
• * 1.82

  Apol. p. 44
• a 1.83

  Fall of Bab. p. 50. Cart. hist. Christ. l. 2. page 359. Dudl. Fenner. Sacra Theolog. lib, 6▪ eap▪ 3. Pag, 90. Neces. disc. pag. 7, Mr Iacob. defin. Chur. pag, 2.
• b 1.84

  Mr Butt. agan. H. Col. p. 100. Sutcl. chal. pag. 6, 5. Mr. Atters. on Numb. 23, 9, pag 158▪ and 357.
• c 1.85

  Articl. of Relig. pag. 13, Art 19.
• d 1.86

  Pet. Mart. in in loc. commun. pag. 741. Vrsin. catech. explicat, pars 2, pag. 343. Alstedius Theolog. Polemic. pars 2, pag. 140, Piscat. volum. Thes. Theolog. pag. 356.
• e 1.87

  Harmony of confes Section 10, Belg i••k, Articl. 28, and Fren. Art. 26.
• f 1.88

  Vnreason of sepation pag. 107.
• * 1.89

  See page 176. 177.
• * 1.90

  Acts 2. 30. & 19. 9. Rom. 16. 7 & 20. 14. 15. 17. Io••. 17. 14. 10, Ez▪ k. 36. 38. Phil. 1. 5. Act. ••. 41. 42. 47. & 11. 21. 24. & 17. 4. 34. Rom. 12. 5. 2. Cor. 9. 13. Psal. 110. 3. Esa. 14. 1. & 44. 5. & 6••. 8. Zach. 4 6. & 8. 21. 22. 23. 2. Cor. 6. 14. 15 16. Iosh. 23. 7. 8. Psal. 94. 20. Mar. 18. 15. 17. 1. Cor. 5. chap. & 6. 9. 10. 1••. Eph. 1, 1. 22. 23. & 2. 11. 12. 19. 20. 21, 22.
• a 1.91

  Mat. 28. 19. 20. Psal. 19. 7. ••. Cor. 1. 21. Ier. 23. 29. 1. Pet. 23. 25. Iames ••. 18. Iob. 33. 23. 24. Act. 16. 10. Rom. 10. 17.
• b 1.92

  1. Cor. 3. 9. Gen. 12. 1. Acts 2. 40. and 10. 44. Col▪ 1. 5. 27. Ephes. 1. 13. 1 Cor. 4. 15. 1. Thes. 1. 3. 5 9.
• * 1.93

  c Atters. on Phil. 10 pag. 205. T. C. I. 1. p. 51. Clev. on Prov. 9. 3. pag. 11. Barn. Sep. schism. pag. 118. By field on Col. 1. 6. pag. 49.
• * 1.94

  d Willet. on Rom. 10. obs. 7. pag. 485. Elton on Col. 1. 7. pag. 41. Scharp. Cursus Theo. p. 6. Cent. Magdeb, I. 1. c. 4. pag. 171. Pisc. Aph. loc. 18. pag. 101.
• * 1.95

  Page 63. 64.
• * 1.96

  T. c. l. 1, Pag. 51.
• * 1.97

  See Mr. Robinsōns Iustisica∣cation of separation 205. Mr. Ains. Counterp. 224, &c.
• * 1.98

  Rom. 11, 16, 21,
• † 1.99

  2 King 18, 3. 4, 5, 6 2 Chro. 29 2. 3, 5 19, 20, 21, &c. and 30, 1, 2, &c. & 31, 1, &c. 2 King 22, 12, and 23, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 24, 25. 2 chro. 34 2, 3, 4, 5, 9▪ 33.
• a 1.100

  Ezra 6, 21, •• and 8, 1, 2, 3, 4.
• c 1.101

  chap. 9. 1, 2,
• d 1.102

  2 chro. 29, 5, 12, 21 2 chro. 14, 2, 3, 4, 2 chro. 29, 18, 19,
• e 1.103

  2 Chro. 15 8, 9, 12,
• g 1.104

  2 chro. 15, 13,
• h 1.105

  2 chro. 29, 25, 27,
• * 1.106

  This serves to proove what the Noncon∣formists have be∣fore said, touching their wor∣ship in chap. 2, Sect. 2, and 4. Acts and Monum. 2, Volum. pag. 1497. & 1498. edition 5.
• * 1.107

  Alcoran∣cap. 19. and 19.
• * 1.108

  page 81.
• * 1.109

  2 chro. 36, 18
• * 1.110

  Ier. 3, 2.
• a 1.111

  Esa. 52▪ 11, Rev. 18 4, Psa. 45, 10, 11
• b 1.112

  1 King. 18, 3. 4, Act 2, 40, 41, Ezr. 6, 21, Lev. 26, 20
• c 1.113

  Lev••••. 25 42, 1 Co••. 7, 23, Gal. 5, 1.
• d 1.114

  Ioh. 4, 23 Rev. 14, 9 2 Chro. 11 15, Lev. 10 1, 2.
• * 1.115

  Meditatiō upon the Lords prayer, p. 15.
• † 1.116

  See Mat▪ 2••, 3,
• * 1.117

  Page 230.
• * 1.118

  De consci. lib. 4. pag. 212. 213. Pare. in 1. Cor. 5. Hemin. in Eph. 5. 16, 17. Eras. pa∣raph. in 1 Cor. 56. Beza ann. in 1 Cor. 56.
• † 1.119

  Greg. Martin. Campian. Kellison, &c.
• * 1.120

  Whitg. defence of answer to Admonit. in the gen. Tab. s.