The true difference betweene Christian subiection and unchristian rebellion wherein the princes lawfull power to commaund for trueth, and indepriuable right to beare the sword are defended against the Popes censures and the Iesuits sophismes vttered in their apologie and defence of English Catholikes: with a demonstration that the thinges refourmed in the Church of England by the lawes of this realme are truely Catholike, notwithstanding the vaine shew made to the contrary in their late Rhemish Testament: by Thomas Bilson warden of Winchester. Perused and allowed publike authoritie.

THE SECOND PART PROVETH THE PRINCES SVPREME POWER TO command for truth within her Realme: and the Pope to haue been a due∣tifull Subiect to the Romane Emperours Ecclesiasticall Lawes for 800. yeares and vpward: answereth the Iesuites authorities and absurdities heaped against the Princes regiment: searcheth the safest way for the Princes direction in matters of Religion, and concludeth the Pope in doubts of doctrine to be no sufficient nor superiour Iudge. (Book 2)

Phi.

FIRST then whereas in the Proclamation we be char∣ged to liue contrary to the lawes of God & the Realme,* 1.1 &c. We answere that if the lawes of God & the lawes of the Realme did alwaies consent & concur in deed, as in this clause & other cō∣mon writings & speeches proceeding frō autority, they be lightly in words couched togither against vs: hardly could wee defende our doctrines and doings frō error & vnduetifulnes towards our prince. But seeing the lawes of kings and Countries are not euer consonant but may be contrary to Gods commandements, we may iustly mislike the one without disloyalty to the other. When Emperours (saith Augustine) be in errour,* 1.2 they make lawes for their errour against the truth, by which iust men are tried & crowned, for not doing that which they command, because God forbiddeth it.

Theo.

That some princes haue made lawes against God & his truth is a case so cleare that it needed no proofe; as also that wee must rather obey God than men, when their lawes do swarue frō his: & again on the other side that princes haue made lawes for the true seruice & worship of God, & did rightly iudge it to be a part of their charge: & y^t all they which resist those lawes, shalbe grieuously punished at Gods hands: though you craftily dissemble, you can not deny: S. Au∣sten in this very place, which you bring for your defence, & the very next words wil tel you so much. Quando autē Imperatores veritatem tenent, pro ipsa veritate contra errorē iubent,* 1.3 quod quisquis contempserit, ipse sibi iudicium acquirit. When Emperors hold the truth they cōmand for truth against error, which [cōmā∣dement] whosoeuer despiseth he purchaseth to himselfe iudgement.* 1.4 For he shalbe punished by mē, & haue no part with God, for not doing that, which truth it selfe by the kings hart commanded him. These words you did wel to cut off, they were enough to mar your market.

Phi.

Not ours.

The.

Wil you thē cōfesse that princes may commād for truth & against error, & that whosoeuer despiseth their commandement in those cases shal incur iudgement. So saith S. Austen in plaine wordes.

Phi.

They may commaund, mary the Church must appoint them what they shall commaund.* 1.5

Theo.

What mean you by the Church?

Phi.

What should I meane by the Church, but the church?

Theo▪

You loue to play with wordes. Mean you laimen or priests, or both?

Phi.

Euer heard you y^e church taken for lai∣men?

The.

When S. Paul sent for the elders of Ephesus, & willed them to take heed to themselues & the whole slocke, ouer which the holy Ghost had placed

them to rule,* 1.6 or feed the Church of God, what ment hee by the Church; the Priestes to whom he spake, or the people?

Phi.

There you see the Priestes are to rule the Church.

Theo.

There also you may see, the Church is not to rule the Prince.

Phi.

How doth that follow?

Theo.

The Church is there taken for the people, which must not rule, but obey the Prince.

Phi.

By the Church in my first answere I ment the Priestes and not the people.

Theo.

Can you shew where the Church in all the Scriptures is takē for the Priests without the people?

Phi.

We call them only Churchmen.

Theo.

We respect not your abuse,* 1.7 but the right vse of the word. The Church is neuer taken in the new nor old Testament for the Priestes alone, but generally for the whole congregation of the faithfull. And therefore when you say the Prince must be ruled by the Church, you dallie with a doubtfull word, and put a faire colour vppon a foule cause; but you must distinctly tell vs what persons you mean, when you say the Church must appoint, what the Prince shal command.

Phi.

I meane Churchmen, that is, Priestes, and Bishops.

Theo.

And what if Churchmen do not agree which is truth,* 1.8 as in our dayes they do not; may Princes make their choyse what Churchmen they will follow?

Phi.

No: the chiefe ruler of the Church and head Bishop on earth must appoint them, what faith they shall imbrace.

Theo.

That chiefe ruler of the Church you take to be the Pope.

Phi.

We do.

Theo.

We like you well for your plainesse. Then Princes may commaund that which the Church,* 1.9 you meane Churchmen; or if they agree not, the chiefe Churchman, which is the Pope, shall appoint. This is your assertion, is it not?

Phi.

It is.

Theo.

What you say Princes must do for the Pope, we say princes may do for Christ: that is, they may plant and establish the Christian faith in their Realmes by their Princely power though the Pope say nay. This is our doctrine, can you reproue it?

Phi.

Who shall be iudge, which is the true Christian faith?

Theo.

You slip now to an other question.* 1.10 It is one thing, who may command for truth, & ano∣ther who shal direct vnto truth. We say, Princes may command for truth & pu∣nish the refusers; this no Bishop may chalenge, but onely the Prince that bea∣reth the sworde. This is the first part of our question: And touching the se∣cond, which is the safest way for princes to be guided vnto the truth, though we differ about the meanes: you reseruing it as a speciall priuilege to the Pope, we referring it as a common duetie to the Preacher; yet this is euident that Princes must be directed vnto truth the same way that al other Christians are, to wit, by perswasion and not by coaction. For no Prelate, nor Pope hath au∣thoritie from Christ to compel priuate men, much lesse princes to the profession of faith, but onely to teach and instruct them. These be the two pointes wee stand on, disproue them if you can.

Phi.

This is not al. You would haue Our faith and saluation so to hang on the Princes will and Lawes,* 1.11 that there could be imagined no neerer waie to religion, than to beleeue what our temporall Lord and Maister list.

Theo.

It is a cunning, when

you can not confute your aduersaries, at least to beelie them, that you may seeme to say somewhat against them. In deede your fourth chapter is wholie spent in refelling this position, which we detest more than you.

Phi.

You begin to shrinke from your former teaching.

Theo.

You will neuer shrink frō your former facing. Did euer any man on our side affirm the princes will to be the rule of faith? Haue we not earnestly written, and openly taught that Religion must not depend vpon the pleasures of men? Haue not thow∣sandes of vs here in England and elsewhere giuen our liues for the witnesse and confession of Gods truth, against princes lawes and Popes decrees? In Spaine,* 1.12 Fraunce, Italie, and other places at this day, do wee not indure all the tormentes you can deuise, because wee will not beleeue what tempo∣rall Lordes and Masters list? Your owne conscience knoweth it is true that wee saie. Why then doe you charge vs with this wicked assertion, from the which wee bee farther off than you? For you holde opinion of Popes, that they cannot erre, we do not of Princes. Why do you father your owne fansies vppon vs? Why dee you purposely peruert the question, heaping absurdities, and alleaging authorities against that which we do not defend?

Phi.

The oth,* 1.13 which you take your selues and exact of others, induceth vs thus to thinke of you. For there you make Princes the onely supreme Go∣uernours of all persons, in all causes, as well spirituall as temporall: vtterly renouncing all forraine iurisdictions, superiorities and authorities. Uppon which wordes marke what an horrible confusion of all faith and Religion insu∣eth. If Princes bee the onely Gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters,* 1.14 then in vaine did the holy Ghost appoint Pastours and Bishops to gouern the Church. If they bee supreme, then are they superiour to Christ himselfe, and in effect Christes Masters. If in all thinges and causes spirituall, then they may prescribe to the priestes and Bishops what to preach, which way to worship and serue God, how & in what forme to minister the Sacramentes, and generally howe men shall be gouerned in soule. If all forraine iurisdiction must bee renounced, then Christ & his Apostles (because they were & are forreners) haue no iurisdiction nor authoritie ouer England. A thowsand other absurdities are consequent to this oth which anon you shall heare.

Theo.

Wake you or dreame you Philander,* 1.15 that in matters of no lesse weight than your duetie to God and the Prince, you fall to these childish and pelting sophismes? What kinde of concluding call you this? Princes onely beare the sword to commaund and punish, ergo Bishops may not teach and exhort. Prin∣ces be not subiect to the Pope, ergo superiours to Christ. They may by their lawes establish those thinges that Christ hath commaunded, ergo they may change both Scriptures and Sacramentes. No forrainer at this day hath a∣ny iurisdiction ouer this Land, ergo Christ and his Apostles fifteene hundred yeeres ago might not preach the Gospel.

Phi.

We make no such fond reasons.

Theo.

The former propositions are the true contens of the oth, which wee take; the later are those very absurdities which you infer vpon vs for taking that oth.

Phi.

You would slip from your words which wee knowe, to your meaning which we know not;* 1.16 but that you shal not. We groūded our absurdities vpō the words of your oth. For if princes be supreme gouernors in al spiritual things & causes, ergo they be supreme iudges of faith, deciders of controuersies, interpre∣ters of scriptures, deuisers of ceremonies, appointers of sacramēts, & what not?

The.

You might euen as well haue cōcluded: princes be supreme gouernors in al tēporal things & causes; ergo they be supreme guiders of grāmer, moderators of Logik, directors of Rhetorik, appointers of Musike, prescribers of Medicines, resoluers of al doubtes, & iudges of al matters incident any way to reason, art, or actiō. If this be leud & irreuerēt iesting, yours is no better.

Ph.

I promise you we iest not.

The.

The more shame for you, if you be in earnest, to conclude so loosely.

Phi.

* 1.17 Do you make princes supreme gouernors of al spiritual things?

Theo.

You reason as if we did; but our words, since you wil needes rest vpon wordes, are not so.

Phi.

What are they then?

The.

We cōfesse them to be supreme gouer∣nors of their Realms & Dominiōs.

Phi.

And that in al spriritual things & causes.

The.

Not of al spiritual things & causes.

Ph.

What differēce between those two speeches?

Theo.

Iust as much as excludeth your wrangling. Wee make them not gouernors of the things themselues,* 1.18 but of all their subiectes, which I trust you dare not withstand.

Phi.

I grant they be gouernors of their subiects, but not in Ecclesiasticall things or causes.* 1.19 They must leaue those matters for Bi∣shops, whō Christ hath appointed to be y^• rulers of his church. And therfore your oth yeelding that power to princes, which is proper to Bishops; is repugnant to the lawes of God, the church & nature: Yea it is an euidēt error reproueable by al hu∣mane & diuine learning, that the souerainty or supremacy in causes Ecclesiasticall is by nature or by christian lawes implied in the right & title of a temporal king,* 1.20 or that it euer was due, or can be due, to any temporall gouernor, heathen or christiā in the world. And if you will but giue eare, you shal heare what a number of absurdities we wil fasten vpon you.

The.

This oth is a great eye sore with you, and I remem∣ber I promised to discusse the same in this chapter. I will therefore first exa∣mine the chiefe parts of it, and after you shall obiect against it what you can.

Where we professe that her Highnes is the onely gouernor of this Realme, the word gouernor doth seuer the magistrate from the minister,* 1.21 & sheweth a ma∣nifest differēce between their office. For Bishops be no gouernors of countries; princes be: that is, Bishops bear not the sword to reward & reuenge; princes do: Bishops haue no power to command & punish; princes haue. This appeareth by the words of our Sauiour expressely forbidding his Apostles to be rulers of na∣tions,* 1.22 & leauing it to princes. The kings of nations rule ouer [their people] and they that be great ones, exercise authority. With you it shal not be so: that is, you shall neither beare rule,* 1.23 nor exercise authority ouer your brethren.

Phi.

The word is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: they ouerrule their subiects with iniustice & violence; you shal not do so.

Theo.

So your new translatiō ouer ruleth the word: howbeit Christ in that place doth not traduce the power of princes as vniust or outragious, but distinguisheth y^• calling of his Apostles frō the maner of regimēt

which God hath allowed the magistrate. Christ ••aith not, princes bee tyrantes, you shal deale more curteously than they do;* 1.24 but he saith, Princes bee Lords and rulers ouer their people,* 1.25 by Gods ordināce you shal not be so. Again the word which S. Luke hath is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 without any composition. They be Lords and masters; & S. Paul confesseth of himselfe & other Apostles, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉,* 1.26 Not that we be Lords or Masters of your faith: yea the compound 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is with power & force to rule mē whether they will or no, not with wrong & iniury to oppresse them; & therefore the conclusion is ineuitable, that princes may lawfully compell & punish their subiects which Bishops may not.* 1.27

This distinction between them is euident by their seueral cōmissions which God hath signed. The prince, not the priest, beareth the sword; ergo the prince, not the priest is Gods minister to reuēge male factors. Peter himself was sharp∣ly rebuked by Christ for vsing the sword, & in Peter all Pastors & Bishops are straitly charged not to meddle with it. Al that take the sword shall perish with the sword. And of al men a Bishop must be no striker. For if he that should feede his masters houshold fal to striking, he shall haue his portion with hypocrites. The seruants of God must be gentle towards all, instructing those that resist, with mildnes, not cōpelling any with sharpnes. Their function is limited to the preaching of the word & dispensing the sacraments, which haue no kinde of cōpulsion in thē, but inuite men only by sober perswasions to beleeue & imbrace the promises of God. To conclude, pastors may teach, exhort, & reproue, not force, cōmand or reuenge: only princes be gouernors that is publik magistrates to prescribe by their lawes, and punish with the sword such as resist them within their dominions, which Bishops may not do: speake we truth or no?

Phi.

We grant Bishops be no magistrates,* 1.28 neither haue they to do w^t the bo∣dies or goods of mē, which god hath permitted to the princes power; but yet they be gouernors of soules which princes be not.

Theo.

No better reason, to warrāt our opinion. The Bishops charge concerneth the souls of mē, but the soule of mā can neither be forced, nor punished by man; ergo Bishops be no commanders nor punishers, but only directors & instructors of the flocke of Christ.

Phi.

That we know.

The.

Thē since by gouernors we mean rulers, such as God hath authori∣zed to bear the sword, why do you fondly cauil that the princes power to cōmand & punish, excludeth the Bishops vocation to teach & exhort, which is nothing so?

Phi.

You say princes may command and punish as well Bishops as others.

Theo.

If they bee subiectes no lesse than others, why should they not obey the prince or abide the sword as wel as others?* 1.29

Phi.

Do you make them meere sub∣iects?

Theo.

Not I, but he that said, You must be subiect, not only for [feare of] wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Phi.

Doth he speake that of clergymē?

Theo.

He y^• speaketh of al, exempteth none. Let euery soule bee subiect to the higher powers, &c. In these words clergymen be not excepted, ergo cōprised.

Out of this place Bernard reasoneth thus w^t an archbishop of Frāce: Let euery soul be subiect. If euery, thē yours. Who doth except you (y^• be bishops) frō this general speech? He that bringeth an exceptiō, vseth but a delusion. For these

things,* 1.30 saith Chrysostom, are commanded to all, as well Priestes and Monks as secular men: which appeareth by the first sentence, Let euery soule bee subiect to the superiour powers; yea though thou be an Apostle, an Euan∣gelist, a Prophet, or what soeuer thou be. So Theodorete. Whether he be Priest,* 1.31 Bishop or Monk, let them be subiect to Magistrates. This do∣ctrine dured in the Church a thousand yeares before your exemption of Clerkes from secular powers, as you call them, was knowen. Paul teacheth euerie soule,* 1.32 saith Theophilact, whether he be Priest, Monk, or Apostle, to be sub∣iect and obey Princes. He teacheth euery soule, saith Oecumenius, whe∣ther he be Priest, Monk, or Apostle, to submit themselues to Magistrates. Gregorie the first, perceiued and yeelded this exposition to be true. Power, saith he, ouer all men is giuen to my Lord [the Emperour] from heauen. And least you should thinke priests exempted, in the person of Christ he speaketh thus to Mauritius the Emperour,* 1.33 Sacerdotes meos tuae manui commisi, I haue put my Priestes into thy handes, and dost thou withhold thy souldiers from my ser∣uice? And elsewhere writing of the same prince,* 1.34 Christ hath granted him to be ruler, not ouer souldiers only but ouer Priestes also.

This is euident by the whole course of the Scripture. Whom did our Sa∣uiour charge to giue to Caesar that which was Caesars? Not Scribes and high Priests,* 1.35 as well as others? Christ himselfe was a priest and a prophet, and yet he not onely submitted himselfe to the Romane Magistrate, but confessed the presidēts power ouer him to be from heauen.* 1.36 S. Paul appealed vnto Caesar & appeared before Caesar as his lawful gouernor. S. Iude detested thē for false pro¦phetes that despised gouernment or spake euil of rulers. It is no Religion, it is rebellion against God & his word for clergie men to exempt themselues from the princes power. The commandement is general: Let euery soule be subiect•• the punishment is eternall, Whosoeuer resisteth power resisteth the ordināce of God,* 1.37 and they that resist shall receiue to themselues damnation.

Phi.

Yet reason the clergie be fauoured aboue the Laitie.

Theo.

Tush, we talke not what fauour princes may do well to shew, but whether Clergie men by Gods law may chalenge an exemption from earthly powers or no?

Phi.

Not, except princes commaund against God. And if they do so, whom must lay men obey? God or man?

Phi.

No doubt God.

Theo.

Then the prince cō∣maunding against God, all men are bound, be they lay men or clerkes, to prefer the will of God before the princes lawes: but when the prince ioyneth with God,* 1.38 and commaundeth for truth, may the clergie resist the prince more than the people may?

Phi.

They may not.

Theo.

You say well. Of the twaine they must rather obey, that they may be teachers of obedience, not in wordes onely, but in deedes also. For if they must admonish others to be subiect to princi∣palities and obedient to Magistrates, then must they not hinder their doctrine by their doings, nor leade the rest by their example to contemn or resist powers, which they should reuerence and obey.

Phi.

By no meanes.

Theo.

And in case the prince be repugnant to God, may priestes or people be violent withstanders,

or must they rather be patient indurers of the sword?

Phi.

They must not resist, but in patience possesse their soules:* 1.39 They that resist shal receiue iudgemēt.

Theo.

Ergo whether princes be with God or against God, Priests & Bishops must with gladnes obey,* 1.40 or with meekenes abide the sword.

Phi.

They must.

Theo.

And he that suffereth is a subiect as wel as he that obeyeth. For if they be rulers that commaund & punish; certainely they be subiects that must obey the commandement, or abide the punishment.

Phi.

I think so.

Theo.

Then monks, Prists & Bishops by Gods law be subiects as well as others, and consequently Princes be Gouernours of all persons within their dominions, bee they Pre∣lates, Prophetes, Apostles, or whatsoeuer they be.

Phi.

In temporal things we graunt, but not in spiritual.

Theo.

Where Princes may lawfully commaund, all subiects of dewtie must obey.

Phi.

True: but in Ecclesiastical causes Princes may not meddle.

Theo.

So say you: but if I proue that the Princes power and charge, by Gods law reacheth as well vnto matters of religion as other things, will you bethink your selues better, and acknowledge your error?

Phi.

When you proue that we may do this, which will neuer be.

Theo.

Marke first what we reath, and next what we proue, that you be not deceaued.

Wee teach that God in deliuering the sworde to Princes,* 1.41 hath giuen them this direct charge to prouide that as well true religion be maintayned in their Realmes, as ciuil iustice ministred: and hath to this end allowed Princes ful power to forbid, preuent, and punish in all their subiects, be they laymen, Clercks, or Bishops, not only murders, thefts, adulteries, periuries, and such like breaches of the seconde table; but also schismes, heresies, Idolatries, and all other offences against the first table pertayning onely to the seruice of God and matters of religion.* 1.42 Wee doe not imagine this of our owne heades, we find it annexed to the crowne by God himself: who when he first gaue the chil∣dren of Israel leaue to choose them a king, withall appointed, that the Law truely copied out of the Leuites original (which was kept in the tabernacle) should be deliuered the king sitting on his royal seate with this charge:* 1.43 That booke shall remaine with the king, he shall reade in it all the dayes of his life, that he may learne to feare the Lord his God, & obserue all the wordes of the law [there written] and these statutes to do them. This was not doone till he was placed in his throne, so sayth the text: therefore this touched not the kings priuate conuersation as a man; but his Princely function as a magistrate; which will you, nill you, stood in cōmaūding others, not in guiding his own person. For no man is a king in respect of himself, but in ruling his subiects.* 1.44 As a man he serued God one way, sayth Austen, as a king an other way. As a mā by faythful lyuing, as a king in setting forth lawes to cōmaund that which is good and remoue the contrarie. So that kings, as kings, serue God in doing that for his seruice, which none but kings can do. Then if the whole Law were cōmitted to the king, as a king, at his coronation; that is, to cōmaund it others; which none but kings could doe within their Realmes;

ergo the publishing, preseruing and executing of the first table touching the sin∣cere worship of God, was the chiefest part of the Princes charge.

To make my cōclusion y^e stronger, let vs see what y^e godly kings of Israell & Iu∣dah did in matters of religiō, hauing no farther nor other cōmission frō God, than this which I last repeated.* 1.45 The diligēt executiō of their office wil serue for an eui∣dēt expositiō, what God required at their hānds. We cā look for no plainer declara∣tiō of Gods meaning in this point, thā Gods own cōmendatiō of their acts in this case. The lawmaker is y^e best interpreter: if they by their princly power remoued idols,* 1.46 razed hilalters, slue false prophets, purged the land frō al abominations, not sparing the brasen serpent (made by Moses) whē they saw it abused: if again by y^e same power they caused the tēple to be clensed, the law to be read, the co∣uenant to be renued with God, the passouer to be kept, the Leuits to minister in their courses inuēted by Dauid:* 1.47 if to conclude, the prince deposed the chiefe bishop placing a fitter in his steed, & forced al [prophets, priests & people] that were found in Israel (sincerely) to serue the Lord their God; if I say they did al this (as the scripture beareth record they did) & their zealous proceedings in these cases were liked, accepted, & praised by Gods own mouth: who besides Iesuits is either so blind that he seeth not, or so froward that he confesseth not, that princes were charged by God himselfe to plant & establish his true seruice in their domi∣nions, & with their Princely power to prohibite & punish all offences & abuses, be they temporal or spiritual, against the second or first part of this heauenly law?

Phi.

This charge concerned none but y^e kings of Israell & Iudah.

The.

That re∣fuge doth rather manifest your folly,* 1.48 thā satisfie my reason: did, I pray you Sir, y^e cōming of Christ abolish the vocatiō of princes? I tro not. Thē their office remai∣ning as before, per cōsequent, both y^e same precept of God to them stil dureth, & al∣so y^e like power to force their subiects to serue God & Christ his son, standeth in as ful strēgth vnder the gospel as euer it did vnder y^e law. For princes in y^e new testa¦mēt be Gods ministers to reuēge malefactors, as they were in y^e old, & y^e greater y^e wickednes,* 1.49 y^• rather to be punished, ergo y^e greatest (as heresies, idolatries & blas∣phemies) are sonest of al other vices to be repressed by christiā magistrates: whose zeal for Christs glory, must not decrease, Christs care for their scepters being in∣creased; and those monuments of former kinges left written for their instructiō.

Were not this sufficient, as in truth it is to refute your euasion: yet king Dauid forseeing in spirit y^e heathē kings would bād thēselues & assemble togither against y^e Lord & his Christ, extēdeth y^e same charge to y^e gētiles which the kings of Iurie receiued before, & warneth thē al at once, Be wife ye kings, vnderstād ye iudges of the world: serue the Lord. Upon which words S. Aug. inferreth thus: Al men ought to serue God: in one sort, by cōmon cōdition as mē; in an other sort, by seueral gifts (& offices) by the which som do this, some that. No priuat person could cōmand idols to be banished clean frō among men, which was so long before prophesied. Therfore kings (besides their duty, to serue God common with al other men) haue,* 1.50 in that they be kings, how to serue the Lord in such sort, as none can do which are not kings. For in this kings (in respect they be kings) serue the Lord (as God by Dauid enioyneth them) if in their kingdoms

they cōmand that which is good, & prohibite that which is il, not in ciuile af∣faires only, but in matters also concerning diuine religion.

With this indeuor of christian princes, God cōforteth his church by y^e mouth of Esay.* 1.51 Thou shalt suck the brests of princes, kings shalbe thy foster fathers, and Queenes thy nurcing mothers. What Esay saith princes shal do, that I cōclude princes must do, because God would not promise they should vsurp an other mās office but discharge their own. Thē if you frō Rhemes, or your brethrē frō Rome tel vs y^• the nurcing of christs church is no part of the princes duty, we detest your insolēt negatiue: God is truth, who saith it, & you be liars. If you take y^e milke of princes for tēporal honors, lāds & goods (which your church in deed hath greedily swallowed) the very children wil laugh you to skorne.* 1.52 The church of Christ is no wāton, she lusteth for no worldly wealth, which is rather hurtful poison, than hol∣som food: Gods prouision for hir, is spiritual, not carnal; hir delights are not out∣ward in flesh, but inward in grace: the prophet, good mā, had no leasure to thinke on your farms, demeans & reuenues: This promise must be common to the faith∣full, not priuat to your cloisterers, which in earthly things plied the bottle so fast, that they suckt their nurces dry. No remedy, you must needs yeeld vs, that christiā princes in respect of their office, not of their riches, haue receiued an expresse com∣mandemēt from God to shew thēselues nurces to his church. Now nurces by na∣ture must prouide food for their infants, & defend them from dāger, ergo kings & queenes in y^e new testamēt are boūd to tēder y^e church of Christ, & by their prince∣ly power & publik lawes to defend the same from infection of heresies, inuasion of schisms, & all other apparent corruptions of faith & good maners.

Who,* 1.53 saith S. Aug. being in his right wits, wil say to (christiā) kings, take you no care who defēdeth or impugneth in your realms the church of (christ) your master? Let it not pertain to you, who lift to be religious, or sacrilegious with∣in your kingdōs? And left he should seem skāt resolued in this opinion, he biddeth opē defiāce to the Donatists in these words:* 1.54 Cry thus if you dare, let murders be punished, let adulteries be punished, let other degrees of lust & sinne be puni∣shed; only sacrileges (that is cōtēpt of God his truth, or his church) we wil not haue punished by princes lawes. And againe, Will (the Donatists) though they were cōuinced of a sacrilegious schisme, say that it belongeth not to the prin∣ces power to correct or punish such things? Is it because such powers do not stretch to corrupt & false religiō? But (christiā) emperors persecute the Pagās: doth that displease thē? The works of the flesh Paul nūbreth these; fornicatiō, vncleanes, strife, dissentiō, heresie, drunkēnes & such other. What thinke these mē, may the crime of idolatry be iustly reuēged by the magistrate? wel, if that like them not, why cōfesse they that witches be rightly punished by the rigor of (princes) lawes, & will not agnise that heretikes & schismatikes may bee repressed by the same, seeing Paul doth rehearse them togither with other fruites of iniquity? Will they reply that earthly powers are not to medle with such matters (of religion?) To what end then beareth he the sword, which is called Gods minister, seruing to punish malefactors? Certainly Princes, * 1.55 &c.

* 1.56If this learned father can not fray you from reuiuing the frantick error of y^e Donatists against the Princes power in matters of religion, I trust you will somwhat reuerence the precept which our Sauior in his Gospell gaue the magistrate, when he had the first sort of ghestes to be brought to the great sup∣per, the second to be forced:* 1.57 Go, sayth he, forth into the wayes and hedges: Compell thē to come in, that mine house may be filled. Wee take wayes, sayth Austen, for heresies, hedges for schismes; because wayes in this place signifie the diuersenes, and hedges the peruersenes of opinions. House, God hath none, but his house of prayer, neither table beside the Lords table. So that this seruant is expressely charged to Compel them from heresies, and schismes to the confession of truth, consent of prayer, and communion of the Lordes table. To performe this, Christ hath left no seruant but the minister or the magistrat: no meanes saue the word or the sword. To compell heretiks and schismatiks, neither is it possible for the preacher if he would, nor lawful if he could: he lacketh both meanes and leaue to constraine them. His calling is with patience to teach,* 1.58 not with violence to force; to feede, not to stryke; to reproue with tongue, not to subdue with hand. Only the Prince beareth the sword, which can and may compell recusants: and therefore Bishops since they be flatly forbidden to Rayne, must not meddle with the material sword being the chiefest part & strength of an earthly kingdom: neither ought any to draw y^e sword, but he that holdeth it in Gods stead to reward and reuenge. Ergo, these wordes,* 1.59 Compell them to come in, that mine house may be filled, were spoken to Christian Princes, and are to them both a warrant and a charge to represse schismes and heresies with their Princely power, which they receiued from aboue; cheefly to maintaine Gods glorie, by causing the bands of vnitie to be preserued in the Church, and the rules of fayth obserued.

* 1.60To the same purpose S. Austen in many places alleageth this parable. The Lord himself, sayth he, willed the ghests first to be brought, then to be for∣ced. What meaneth he by this, Compell them to come, when as he sayd of the first, bring them? If he ment they should be compelled by terror of mi∣racles, then might the first sort of ghests which saw many diuine wonders be rather thought to be forced: (but) if by the power, which the Church receaued at Gods hand in due time through the religion & faith of kings, those that are found in high wayes & hedges, that is in heresies & schismes (must) be compelled to come, let them not mislike that they be forced. This cōmaunding by Princely power occasioneth many to be saued,* 1.61 which though they be violently brought to the feast of the great householder, and compelled to come, yet being within they find cause to reioyce that they did enter: for both [sorts of commers as well violently forced, as willingly brought] the Lord fortold & hath fulfilled.* 1.62 Therfore let earthly princes serue Christ, in making Lawes for Christ, wherby mē [may] be forced to come to the (great &) holy banquet, yea by banishments & other losses let [their sub∣iects] begin to weigh with themselues what & why they suffer, & learne to

prefer the Scriptures which they read, before the reportes and cauils of mē.

I thinke it superfluous to staie longer in confirming so manifest a truth. He that is of God, heareth the words of God: he that impugneth them, quarreleth not with Princes, which yet is no small offence, but with him by whom Prin∣ces raigne,* 1.63 whose wisedom may not easily be neglected, nor will resisted. If you deny that this is the Princes charge to see the law of God fully executed, his Sonne rightly serued, his spouse safely nourced, his house timely filled, his ene∣mies duely punished, you must counteruaile that which Moses prescribed, Da∣uid required, Esay prophesied, Paul witnessed, & Christ commaunded with some better & sounder authority than theirs is: If you grant so much, we wil aske no more: the Princes duety to God once cōfessed, the rest shal quickly be concluded.

Phi.

In a sense, it is true that you say.

Theo.

It is simply true that I say: for in your owne iudgement may the Christian faith be freely permitted, & publike∣ly receiued in kingdoms & common wealthes?

Phi.

No doubt.

Theo.

May godly discipline be likewise planted and preserued amongest men,* 1.64 and the dis∣turbers and neglecters of it repressed and ordered?

Phi.

It may.

Theo.

Should corrupt & false Religion be displaced & banished, and the spredders of it disper∣sed & skattered?

Phi.

In any case.

Theo.

Ought malefactors against God, as he∣retikes, blasphemers, sorcerers, idolaters & such other transgressours of the first table, to be reuenged and punished, as well as offenders against men, and the breakers of the second table?

Phi.

What else?

Theo.

Can any man freely per∣mit, safely defend, generally restrayne and externally punish, within a realme, but onely the Prince?

Phi.

None.

Theo.

Then if these things needfully must and lawfully may bee done for Christ and his Church, & none can doe them but Magistrates, it is euident that the Princes power & charge doth stretch vnto thinges & causes that bee spirituall as well as temporall.* 1.65 Or if S. Austens wordes do better please you, that Princes may command that which is good, and prohibite that which is euill within their kingdomes, not in ciuile af∣faires onely, but in matters also that concerne diuine Religion.

Phi.

Did the Christian Princes in the primatiue Church since the cōming of Christ commaund & punish in matters Ecclesiasticall?* 1.66

Theo.

If their exam∣ples do not concur with my former proofes, good leaue haue you to beleeue nei∣ther: if they do, take heede you withstand not a manifest truth. And here you shal choose whether you will haue a short report or a large rehearsal of their doings. Socrates touching them all, saith:* 1.67 We therefore make mention of Emperors throughout this historie, for that since they became Christians, Ecclesiasti∣cal matters depend on them, & the greatest Synods haue been, and are yet called by their appointment. And Alciat a man of your own side: Nemim dubiū est,* 1.68 quin in primatiua ecclesia de rebus & personis ecclesiast. &c. THERE CAN BE NO DOVBT saith he, but in the primatiue Church Emperors had the iurisdiction (that is the ruling and gouerning) of persons and causes Ecclesiasticall.

Ius dicere referred to Princes, is not to decide matters in question by law, for so did Iudges & not Princes, but to make lawes: and betweene lawma∣kers

& gouernors you can find litle difference: for by publike lawes commāding good & punishing euil princes do chiefly gouerne. Then if christian Monarks in the primatiue church guided ecclesiastical matters & persons by their imperiall lawes, as this learned & famous lawier putteth vs out of doubt they did; you must shew when & how they forfeited this power. If it were thē lawful & vsual, how can it be now strange & vsurped? If there be no doubt of this, with what cō∣science do you, not doubt, but deny this? Perhaps you disdaine the witnesse. Al∣ciat in euery respect was well learned, & in his faculty, which was law, deser∣ueth more credit than the best of you: yet least I should seeme to presse you with names & not with proofes, let vs view the proceedings of some Christiā Empe∣rors, and iudge you whether they be not both ancient and euident.

* 1.69What power Constantine claimed & vsed in causes ecclesiasticall, the foure books of Eusebius & other church stories describing the lawes, letters & acts of Cōstantine, beare witnes sufficient. First, he gaue the christiās free liberty to professe their religion, built them places of praier at his own charges, & en∣treated their bishops with all possible fauor & honor. Next he prohibited the gen∣tiles their ancient & vsual idolatries, diuinatiōs, oracles, images & sacrifices. Heretiks he debarred not only churches & secret conuents, but excluded them also from the priuileges which him-selfe had prouided for Catholike persons. If Constantines example deserue to be praised & followed, which no man, except he be void of common sense, wil gainsay, then may christian Princes in the right of their scepter & sword, I meane their publike vocation & charge, without seek∣ing any farther warrāt from Rome, forbid wicked and idolatrous superstition, admit and assist to the best of their power the preaching of the trueth, sequester heretikes from the dignities and liberties graunted to good and religious sub∣iectes: for so did Constantine, whose godly vertues and happie paines all na∣tions then imbraced, all ages since confessed, all Princes now should imitate.

Besides this he did many thinges both for spredding the faith & guiding the church of Christ worthy great cōmendation.* 1.70 By my ministery (saith this good Emperor) mākind is brought to the keeping & obseruing of the most sacred law: by the seruice which I perform to God, al things euery where (directly speaking of things ecclesiasticall) are setled in order, yea the barbarous nati∣ons, which til this time knew not the truth, now praise the name of God sin∣cerely, whom they reuerēce for dread of vs.* 1.71 Towards the church of Christ he shewed an excellēt & special care: calling coūcels of bishops when any dis∣sention sprang, as a common bishop & ouerseer appointed by God, not dis∣daining to be present & confer with them (the rather) to keep thē al in chri∣stian peace.* 1.72 For his maner was in their synods not to sit idle, but to marke ad∣uisedly what euery man said, to help their either side disputing, to tēper such as kindled too fast, to reason mildly with ech part, & vndertake iointly with thē to search out the truth: confirming their decrees with his seal, least other (tēporal) iudges & rulers should infringe them. When occasiō serued him not to gather a coūcel,* 1.73 he did by writing aduertise the parties dissenting of his o∣piniō & iudgemēt, interposing himself as an arbiter in their cōtrouersies: som¦times

Prescribing the bishops what was profitable for the church of God,* 1.74 somtimes the people: to which end he wrot many letters, emitting neither re¦bukes nor threats, whē need so required.* 1.75 Whē y^e coūcel of Tyrus was gathered by his edict, he cōmāded thē first to discusse the truth of such crimes, as were pretēded against Athan. who was loth to come before thē, saue that he feared the thretning letters of Const. writtē to this effect.* 1.76 If any, which I think not, in contēpt of our mādate, fail to come before you, we wil send a warrāt frō our roial autority, that he shalbe banished, to teach him, what it is (for bishops & clerks) to withstād the precept of the chief ruler defending the truth. Athan. & y^e bishops of his part appeared; but finding the coūcel very partial, protested a∣gainst thē & appealed frō thē in these words:* 1.77 Because we see many things spite∣fully cōtriued against vs, & much wrōg offred the catholik church vnder our names, we be forced to request, that the debating of our maters may be kept for the princes most excellēt person: we can not bear the drifts & iniuries of our enimies, & therfore require the cause to be referred to the most religious & deuout emperor, before whō we shalbe sufferd to stād in our own defēces, & plead the right of the church. Yet to preuēt the worst Athan. himself fled to Constant. beseeching him to send for the bishops & examine their acts. Upon whose cōplaint y^e good prince wrote this to the whole councel:* 1.78 Your synod hath decreed, I know not what in a tumult & vprore, whiles you seeke to peruert truth by your pestilent disorder, for hatred against your fellow (bishops:) but the diuine prouidēce wil (I doubt not) scatter the mischief of your contentiō & make it plain in our sight, whether your cōuent had any regard of truth or no. You must therefore al of you resort hither to shew the reason of your do∣ings: for so doth it seem good & expedient to me:* 1.79 to which end I willed this rescript to be sent you, that as many of you, as were present at the councel of Tyrus, without delay repair to the place of our abode, there to giue accompt, how sincerely, & soundly you haue iudged: and that before me, whom your selues shal not deny to be the sincere minister of God (in these cases.) The prince summoned, y^e coūcel prescribed thē what they should hādle, gaue charge to y^e parties accused to come before thē, sharply rebuked y^e bishops assembled in this synod, cōmāded thē to come corā nobis, & rēder a reason of their tumultuous iudge¦mēt, assured thē y^t he would in his own person examin their doings whether they were good & substātial or no. This power he chalēged ouer churchmē & church∣matters, not as a violēt vsurper, but as gods minister ordained to y^• intēt: which y^e catholik bishops, y^t took part w^t Athan. cōfessed to be true by their appeal, y^e rest y^• deposed him, neither did nor durst deny. So y^e Const. was both an orderly re∣fuge for Athan. & a lawful cōtroler of y^e coūcel of Tyrus, notw^tstāding y^e crimes obiected there to Macarius & Atha. were spiritual, to wit,* 1.80 the striking of a priest ouerthrowing the Lordes table, dashing in peeces the mystical cup, burning the sacred books, vsing a dead mās hand to sorcery, w^t many such hainous of∣fences leudly deuised by their accusers, not any way proued against them, yet taken by their aduersaries, then iudges, for iust matter to condemne them.

In restoring Arius,* 1.81 the mildnesse of Constantine was somewhat abused by

the crafty dissembling of heretikes: yet thereby may well appeare what autho∣rity this Prince claimed to command Bishops & release the rigor of their eccle∣siastical cēsures. Thus stood the case. The Princes was often tolde that Arius held no such opinion as the world misdouted in him.* 1.82 If Arius, saith he, consent to the Nicene coūcel, I wil admit him to my sight, & send him home with ho∣nor. Arius & his adherents accepting the cōdition, were willed to put their faith in writing; & with their wily submission so pleased Cōstantine (very glad to see them yeeld to the Nicene creed) that he sent thē with his letters towards Alexandria to be receiued. At their cōming Athanasius the Bishop of those parts refused to cōmunicate with them, aduertising his Maiesty by writing, y^e heretiks once deposed might not be restored to their former estate. Constantine tooke this exception in such il part, that he fel to cōmanding Athanasius in short & sharp terms.* 1.83 Knowing our pleasure, WE CHARGE YOV, that you suffer freely those that will, to returne to the church. For if I learn, that you forbid, or ex∣clude such as would gladly be partakers of the church, I WILL PRESENTLY SEND ONE, THAT SHALL BY COMMISSION from me DEPOSE YOV.

This, saith Socrates, he wrote minding to profit the church, & end al dissē∣tion: but it fel out otherwise: for the citizēs of Alexādria were so troubled with the boldnes of Arius, & lack of Athanasius then banished, that Cōstantine doub∣ting the peruerse mind of Arius sent for him,* 1.84 & asked him whether he wold subscribe to the Nicene faith: which he did there in presence very readily, but slily. The Prince musing at it, exacted an oth: that he took likewise.* 1.85 Then the christian Emperor finding no cause to suspect him farther, COMMANDED ALE∣XANDER BISHOP OF CONSTANTINOPLE TO RECEIVE HIM (the next day) TO THE COMMVNION,* 1.86 which God preuēted with a suddain & shameful death in detestation both of his heresie so long defended, & periury then freshly cōmitted. Now chose whether you wil affirm, y^t Cōstantine was ouer presumptuous & im¦perious in the church of Christ against al reason & good order: or else agnise that Princes had then authority to require the subscriptions & othes of such as they suspected in religion, to restore those that were deposed, to their ancient places vpon their submission, and command the chiefe Bishops (for so were both these, the first of Alexandria, the second of Constantinople) to receiue such as had pur∣ged themselues, in the Princes iudgement and presence, to the communion.

Phi.

Uengeāce frō heauen, decided the case with Athanasius against Arius.

Th.

No doubt Arius was worthly plagued for his false swearing, & wicked meaning to trouble the church of God worse with his secret dissembling, than he did be∣fore with his open rebelling: but what is this to Constantine, whose zeale to preserue truth was neuer doubted, whose care to procure concord in the church can not be blamed, whose diligence to sift Arius with an oth could not be bette∣red? We propose not the lewed fact of Arius blaspheming God, & iugling with man, we detest that mōster as much as you: but we lay forth the steps of Cōstā∣tine seeking & hoping his reformatiō, & to y^e end cōmanding the very Patriarks themselues, & threatning due punishement if his princely will were not obeyed.

Iustinian in his Code repeateth the lawes of former Emperours not onely touching the Christian faith,* 1.87 baptisme, Churches and bishops, but also, touching heretiks, Apostataes, Iewes, and Infidels. In his Authentikes he maketh ma∣ny new cōstitutions in which he disposeth OF SACRAMENTS,* 1.88 in what places, by what persons, w^t what lowdnes of voice they shalbe ministred: OF SYNODS, when they shall be kept, what things shalbe reformed in them according to the sacred Canons, and his Princely lawes; also what Canons of Councels shall stand in y^e same strength with his Lawes: OF CHVRCHES AND ABBAIES, guiding the maner of their erection, the number of their Clerkes, their expen∣ces, suites and priuileges: OF MONKS, who shal elect their Abbate what time shall suffice for their triall; what rules they shall keepe for praier, diet, rest, and such like dueties of life; to whom the correction and ouersight of them shall be∣long: OF PRIESTS, DEACONS, AND OTHER SERVITORS in the Church, limi∣ting their age, condition, learning and good report before they shall be receiued to this charge; their diligēt, sober and chast behauiour afterward: OF BISHOPS, howe they shall bee chosen, in what sort their soundnes in faith, skill in common prayer, and clearnes from all iust accusations, prohibited by the sacred rules, or lawes imperiall, shalbe throughly sifted, before they may bee confirmed; what causes they shall medle with in their Consistories, what superior iudges they themselues shall haue, from whom they shal not appeale; what punishment they shall endure for Simonie, non residence, wrongfull excommunication, playing at tables, resorting to spectacles, ordering any Clerke without diligent exami∣nation, or contrarie to the Princes ecclesiastical lawes: in which cases Iustinian commandeth them to bee SVSPENDED, EXCOMMVNICATED, DEPOSED, as the fault meriteth, and his edict appointeth.

It was then no newes for a Prince to say:* 1.89 Diuers complaints haue beene brought vs against Clerks, Monks and many Bishops, that some leade not their liues according to the sacred Canons, others can not the publike prai∣ers which should be sayd at the sacred oblation and baptisme: we therefore recounting the iudgement of God with our selues, HAVE COMMAVNDED THAT IN EVERY MATTER THVS DETECTED, LAWFVLL INQVISITION AND CORRECTION PROCEEDE, comprising in this edict those things that were before skattered in sundry constitutions touching the most religious Bi∣shops, Clerkes and Monkes, with such punishments added, as wee rhought expedient. And againe, OVR CHIEFEST CARE IS FOR THE TRVETH OF GODS DOCTRINE, AND SEEMELY CONVERSATION OF THE CLER∣GIE. THE THINGS THEN WHICH WE HAVE DECREED AND MAKE FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THE SACRED ORDER AND STATE, CONSONANT TO THE TENOR OF HOLY RVLES, LET THE MOST GODLY PATRIARKES OF EVE∣RY DIOCESSE, THE METROPOLITANES AND RIGHT REVEREND BISHOPS AND CLERKES KEEPE FOR EVER HEREAFTER INVYOLABLE: THE BREAKER OF THEM SHALBE SVRE TO BE SEQVESTRED VTTERLY FROM GOD AND EX∣CLVDED FROM HIS PRIESTLY FVNCTION: Licencing all men, of what

sort or calling soeuer they bee, that perceiue the least point of these our Lawes transgressed, to denounce and infourme the same to our highnes, that wee, which following the sacred rules and Apostolike tradition haue commaunded these thinges, may reuenge such offendours as they well deserue.

* 1.90Farther hee sayth, Our purpose in this present Lawe is next after those matters which wee haue disposed of the most holy Bishoppes and reue∣rend Clerkes to set a good order in monasticall discipline: for so much as there is no kinde of thing exempted from the Princes inquisition,* 1.91 which hath receiued from God a common regiment, and soueraintie ouer all men: and these things which concerne God must bee preserued from corruption by the sacred Prelates and [ciuill] Magistrates, but most of all by our Maiestie, which vse not to neglect any diuine causes, but labour by all meanes, that our common wealth (by the fauour of the great God, and our Sauiour Christ towardes men) may reape the fruite of that pure∣nes and integritie, which Clerkes, Monkes and Bishoppes from the high∣est to the lowest, shall shewe foorth in keeping the sacred Canons, & our lawes prouided in that behalfe: which constitutions, by this our decree, wee strengthen a fresh and ratifie. Put on your spectakles, and see whether Iustinian do not take vppon him to gouerne the doctrine and discipline of the Church, the conuersation of Clerkes, Monkes and Priestes: and to com∣maunde Prelates and Patriarkes in the celebration of sacraments, conuo∣cation of Synodes, election and confirmation of Bishoppes, ordering of Clerkes, and such like functions (except our eyesight fayle vs) wholy spiri∣tuall, and in the iudgement of your neerest friends acknowledged for causes ecclesiasticall.

I will omitte what Iustinian enacted touching mariages, diuorces, le∣gacies, funerals, incests, adulteries, and such like:* 1.92 then pertinent to the Princes power and sworde, nowe claymed by your holy father for a sur∣plussage to causes ecclesiasticall; and with that seely shift conueyed out of Princes handes, who first vppon fauour and opinion of holynes and wise∣dome in Bishoppes, gaue them leaue to meddle with such matters: I will omitte, I say, that; and descende to the Lawes of Charles the great, Emperour of the West partes, eight hundreth yeeres after Christ, which Ansegisus gathered together within thirteene yeeres of the death of the sayde Charles. In his preface of those Lawes thus speaketh that wise Prince.

* 1.93Considering the passing goodnes of Christ our Lord towardes vs and our people, and howe needefull it is, not onely to giue thankes to God incessantly with heart and mouth, but also with good endeuours con∣tinually to set foorth his (honour and) praise &c. Therefore (O you Pa∣stours of Christes Church, and teachers of his flocke,) Haue wee

directed Commissioners vnto you that shall ioyne with you to redresse those thinges, which neede reformation, in our name and by vertue of our authoritie: and (to this ende) wee haue here annexed certaine briefe chapters of Canonicall (or ecclesiasticall) institutions, such as we thought meetest. Let no man iudge this our admonition to godlines to bee presumptuous, Whereby wee seeke to correct thinges amisse, to cutte off superfluities and leade men to that which is right, but rather receiue it with a charitable mynde. For in the booke of kinges wee reade what paynes godly Iosias tooke to bring the kingdome giuen him of GOD to the true worship of the (same) God, by visiting, correcting and instructing them; not that wee compare our selues with his sanctitie, but that we should alwayes imitate such examples of the godly. We see the reason why these Lawes were published, and commissioners sent from the Prince to put them in execution: now let vs examine the Lawes them∣selues, and marke what causes they chiefely concerne. Peruse the booke: you will (on my woord) expect no farther proofe, that Princes had then to doe with persons and causes ecclesiasticall. If your leasure serue you not, by these fewe, which I will report, you may coniecture the rest. The first seuen and fiftie Canons are borowed out of such generall, and prouinciall Coun∣cels as Charles best liked: for example.

That no man excommunicated in one place shall bee taken to the communion in an other place:* 1.94 That when any Clerk is ordered, his faith and life bee first ex∣actly tried: That no strange Clerke bee receaued or ordered without letters of commendation, and licence from his owne Bishop:* 1.95 That no seruant bee made Clerk or Moncke without his masters consent:* 1.96 That no man bee made Priest vnder thirtie yeares of age: neither then at randon, but appointed and fastned to a certaine cure:* 1.97 That no Bishop meddle with giuing orders in an other mans diocesse:* 1.98 That no Bishop veele any widoes at all,* 1.99 nor maydens vnder the age of twentie and fiue: That the Bishop of each Prouince, and the Metropolitane meete yerely twise in Councel, for causes of the Church:* 1.100 That Priests when they say their masses shall also communicate:* 1.101 That only the bookes canonical shall bee read in the Church:* 1.102 That the false names of Martyres and vncertaine memo∣ries of Sainctes bee not obserued:* 1.103 That Sunday bee kept from euening on (Saturday) till euening (the next day:) with other such constitutions prescri∣bing a direct order to Bishoppes, Priestes, and Monkes, for ecclesiasticall causes.

Phi.

These bee Canons of former Councels.

Theo.

True, but selected and deliuered by Charles to those visitours which he sent with his au∣thoritie to refourme the Church: and the rest that followe, to the number of an hundred and fiue chapters, did Charles frame by conference with learned and godly men at his discretion. Which yet concerne the regiment of the Church no lesse than these doe. You must beare with the length of them, they be matters profitable to be knowen (I speake for the most part of them) & great∣ly pertinent to this question. You shall thereby resolue your selfe howe farre

Princes then lawfully might, and carefully did medle with guiding and ruling the Church of God: and see both a worthie memoriall and a right president of a Princes visitation and reformation of all states, aswell in matters of fayth, as good order and discipline.

These be the Lawes.

* 2.1The Priests, euery man in his calling, shall preach, and teach the people committed to their charge: The Bishops shall not suffer any man vnder them, to propose to the people newe fangled opinions, or not Canonical, of their owne deui∣sing, not agreeable to the scriptures: but shall themselues preach fruitfull & good doctrine, tending to life euerlasting, and instruct others to do the like. And first they shall teach all men generally to beeleeue the father, the sonne and the holy Ghost to bee one omnipotent, eternal and inuisible God, creator of heauen and earth and all things in them, and that there is but one Godhead, substance & maiestie in these three persons, the father, the sonne and the holy ghost.

* 2.2ITEM they shall preach, that the sonne of God, through the working of the holy spi∣rit, tooke flesh of Marie (shee remaining still a virgine) for the saluation and redemp∣tion of mankind, his death, buriall, rising the third day from the dead, his ascending into heauen, and how he shall come againe in diuine glorie to iudge all men according to their deserts, the wicked (for their vnrighteousnes) to bee cast into perpetuall flames of fire with the Diuell: the iust to bee taken to Christ and his elect angels into [blessed] life for euer.

* 2.3ITEM they shall diligently set forth the resurrection of the dead, that men may knowe and beleeue they shal haue their reward [good or euill] in the same bodies which they now beare about them.

* 2.4ITEM they shall admonish all men with all industrie, for what offences they shal∣be condemned to paynes euerlasting: Paul telling vs, that the workes of the flesh are manifest, which are, fornication, vncleannes, wantonnes, hatred, debate, emulation, wrath strife, sedition, heresie, sects, spite, murder, drunkennes, gluttonie, and such other, of which I warne you now, as I did before, that they which commit these things shal not inherit the kingdome of God: these things therefore, which the great Preacher of the Church of God reckoneth by name, let them be with all care prohibited, remembring how terrible that saieng is, They which doe these things, shall neuer come to the king∣dome of God.

* 2.5BESIDES, you shall earnestly teach them the loue of God, and their neighbour, faith and hope in God, humilitie and patience, charitie and continencie, liberalitie and mercie, to giue almes, to acknowledge their sinnes, and forgiue such as trespasse a∣gainst them according to the Lordes prayer: assuring them that they, which followe these thinges, shall enter the kingdome of God. THIS WEE CHARGE AND ENIOINE YOV THE MORE PRECISELY, BECAVSE WEE KNOWE, THAT FALSE TEACHERS SHALL COME IN THE LATER DAYES, as the Lord in the Gospel foretold, and his Apostle Paul to Timothie witnesseth.

* 2.6ITEM the Bishoppes shall diligently discusse in euery parish the fayth of the Priestes, their manner of baptizing, and saying masse: that their faith may be

sound, their baptisme Catholike, and themselues well conceiue the prayers of their masse, and sing the psalmes by the distinction of verses. They must wel vn∣derstand the Lordes prayer themselues, and teach that all others must vn∣derstand the same [to this end] that euery man may know what he asketh at gods hand. This verse, Glorie be to the father & the sonne (&c.) shal be song of all with great deuotion: & the Priestes together with the people shal sing with one voyce, holy, holy, holy (Lorde God of hostes) and all the faithfull shall communicate, and prouide at the time of masse so to do,* 2.7 without any other cal∣ling or warning. No Priest shall admitte an other mans parishioner to the masse,* 2.8 ex∣cept he be a wayfaring man, or one that is tyed there with some matter in law.

ITEM that false and suspected legends or such as bee repugnant to the Catholike faith (as that vile and erroneous epistle, which some deceaued themselues,* 2.9 and deceiuing others, pretended a yeare past to fal from heauen) bee neither beleeued, nor reade, but burnt, lest the people be seduced by such Pamphlets: & only the canonical bookes, Catho∣like treaties, and sentences of holy writers be read, and taught.

ITEM the Priests shall haue alwaies in readinesse the sacred Eucharist,* 2.10 that when any falleth sick, or an infant be in danger of death, he may minister the communion to him, least he die without a communion.

ITEM we decree, that as God hath commaunded,* 2.11 no seruile worke to be taken in hand on the Lords day, as also the Prince my father of blessed memorie gaue charge by his Synodal Edict, to wit, no kind of husbandrie, neither cutting of vines, nor tilling the ground, neither reaping, nor mowing, nor hedging, neither rooting or felling of trees, nor digging in rocks, nor building, nor gardening, no not keeping of courts, or hunting [the women likewise to forbeare all kind of manuall works] but that all people resort to the Church and praise God for all his blessings.* 2.12 On the Sunday shal no market nor faire be kept in any place.

ITEM the holy dayes, that shalbe kept throughout the yere, are these:* 2.13 the birth of Christ, S. Steeuens, S. Iohns, the Innocēts day, the octaues of our Lord, the Epiphanie & octaues thereof, the purification of the virgine Marie, eight daies of Easter, the time of [the solemne procession or] greater Letanie, the Assension of the Lord, Whitsontide, S. Iohn Baptist, S. Peter and Paul, S. Martine, S. Andrew. The assumption of our Ladie I leaue in doubt.

ITEM the Moncks shall perfectly learne the manner of the Romane tunes like as our father king Pipine decreed they should,* 2.14 when he did abrogate the french kinde of singing.

ITEM that Bishops be chosen by the consent of the clergie and people out of the same dioces,* 2.15 according to the Canons, without respect of persons, or rewards: and that they traine vp their Priests in sobrietie and chastitie:* 2.16 and see them haue the bookes of their masses and lessons well corrected: and that they repaire their Churches decaied to their abilitie, & instruct the (Church) widoes how they should be conuersant after the Apo∣stolike precept, & roote out the superstitions that are in many places about the exequies of the dead, and wholly bend themselues to do their duties in al things con∣cerning the Church of God: and this that they may the more freely doe, wee will bee

ready to assist them by all meanes possible.

* 2.17ITEM that in one Citie bee not two Bishops, nor one prouince diuided betweene two Metropolitanes: and that the confirming of Bishops be not long differed, neither any Bishop remoue from his diocesse, without the decree of other Bishops. That no lay man presume to place or displace Clerks, but by the Bishops Consent. That excommunica∣tions be not ouer rife and for trifeling causes. That euery Church haue a Priest as soone as the Bishop can prouide. Item the Bishop shal looke that the Church of God haue due honor: no secular busines, nor vaine iangling shalbe suffered in the Church, because the howse of God is the howse of praier, but that al men haue their mindes attentiuely bent to God, when they come to masse, and not depart before the Priest haue ended his blessing.

* 2.18Because Canonicall profession partly for ignorance, partly for sloth, was very much defaced, we tooke paines at our sacred session to gather as it were certaine sweet flowers out of the monuments of blessed writers, and proportion a rule both for women and men of Canonicall conuersation: which the whole assemblie so well liked of, that they thought it worthie to bee kept without alteration: and therefore wee de∣cree, that all of that sort hold it without failing, and in any case hereafter ob∣serue the same.

* 2.19How we haue disposed touching Monckes, and giuen them leaue to chose an Abbat of themselues, and ordered their purpose of life, wee haue caused to be drawen in an other schedule, and confirmed it,* 2.20 that it might stand good and inuiolable with (the Princes) our successors, (Prouided always) that laymen be neither ouerseers of Moncks, nor Archdeacons.

* 2.21We heare say that certaine Abbesses, against the manner of the Church of God, giue blessing with laieng their hands, and making the signe of the Crosse on the heads of men. Know you, sacred fathers, that this must be vtterly forbidden in your diocesse.

* 2.22Wee haue a precept in Deuteronomie, No man shall consult a southsaier, obserue dreames or respect diuinations: there shal bee no sorcerer, no inchaunter, no coniurer. Therefore wee commaund that none calculate, practise charmes, or take vppon them to Prophesie what weather shall come: but wheresoeuer such bee founde, either to bee refourmed or condemned. Likewise for trees, rockes, springs, where some fooles make their obseruations, wee giue straite charge that this wicked vse, detected of GOD, be banished euerie where and destroyed.

* 2.23Of mariage your demaund, whether a man may take to wife a mayde that is espoused to an other. In any case we forbid it: because that blessing, which the Priest giueth her that is betrothed, is to the faithful in manner of a sacrilege if it any way be violated.

* 2.24THAT our visitours looke diligently in euery Citie, Monasterie, and Nunrie, howe the buildinges and ornaments of the Church bee kept, and make diligent inquirie for the conuersation of all persons there,

and howe that which wee commaunded, is refourmed in their reading, singing, and other disciplines pertayning to the rules of eccelsiasticall order.

Certaine Chapters,* 2.25 as of incestuous mariages, Churches that lacke their right honour or haue beene lately spoyled, and if there bee any other eccle∣siasticall, or common wealth matters worthie to bee redressed, which for shortnes of tyme wee coulde not nowe finish, wee thinke good to differre them, vntill by Gods helpe, and the aduise of our faythfull [Counsellers,] oportunitie serue vs to determine the same.

There bee sixe score chapters besides these, recorded by the same wri∣ter of the lawes, that Charles made touching ecclesiasticall Persons and cau∣ses, which I for breuitie sake omitte, leauing you to consider of them when you see your time.

Charles,* 2.26 by these publike lawes, appointed what doctrine should be preached, what abuses in the Lords supper amended, what parts of diuine seruice pro∣nounced by the Priest and people together with one voyce, what bookes should bee read in the Church, what holy dayes obserued, what memories of Saints abolished, what woorkes on Sonday prohibited: hee prescribed the Bishops their dueties, the Priestes their charge, the Monkes their rules: hee di∣rected thee keeping of Synodes, electing and translating of Bishoppes, or∣dering and placing of Clerkes, paying and employing of Tythes: decided what shoulde become of their mariages that were taken away by force, or affianced before to others: forbad the burying of dead corses in the Church, banished Sorcerie, Simonie, Usurie, Periurie: last of all vndertooke, that if any thing were wanting, which needed reformation in causes ecclesiasti∣call, it shoulde bee supplyed of him at his leasure. If Charles had the re∣giment of monasticall profession, episcopall iurisdiction, canonicall conuersati∣on: if hee did, I say, medle with redressing errors in fayth, abuses in sacra∣mentes, disorders in diuine seruice, superstition in funerals, othes, charmes, and such other matters, as by the purport of these chapters it is euident he did, what causes can you deuise more spirituall than these? Will you per∣mitte these thinges of most importance to the Princes power, and except other of lesse moment? That were notorious follie. You must either inuest them with all, or exclude them first from the weightiest. For if they be gouer∣nours of the greatest ecclesiasticall affayres, much more doth their authoritie stretch to the smalest.

Againe, these Lawes of Charles, which amount to the number of eight skore and three,* 2.27 what do they lacke of a full direction for all matters needing re∣formation in the Church of God? Any thing or nothing? If nothing, then this prince gouerned & ordered al ecclesiasticall causes. If any thing, y^t Charles him selfe assureth vs he would determine, when occasion serued. Choose whether you wil, Charles either way shewed y^e lawful power of Princes to direct & establish

all thinges requisite to the faith and Church of Christ. For what hee promised aduisedly to doe; no doubt, hee ment it shoulde, and thought it might, bee iustly perfourmed.

* 2.28So did Ludouike his sonne, and Lotharius his nephew the next Emperours after him, whose proceedings declare what account they made of these chapters, and with what diligence they put them in executiō. The monuments of so good Princes I may not ouerslip with silence, their deeds did then profit the Church of God, their wordes will nowe profite vs. Thus did Ludouike, and Lotharius his sonne write to the Bishoppes and magistrates of their Empire.

* 2.29You haue all I doubt not either seene or heard, that our father and our progenitors, after they were chosen by God to this place, MADE THIS THEIR PRINCIPAL STVDIE,* 2.30 howe the honour of Gods holy Church, and the state of their kingdome might bee decently kept: and wee for our part, following their example, since it hath pleased God to appoint vs that we should haue the care of his holy church, and this Realme, are very desirous, so long as wee liue, to labour earnestly for three speciall points, I meane to defende, exalt and honour Gods holy Church and his mini∣sters in such sort as is fit, to preserue peace, and do iustice among the people.

* 2.31AND THOVGH THE CHIEFE OF THIS MINISTERIE CONSIST IN OVR PERSON, yet by Gods and mans ordinance it is so diuided, that euery one of you in his order and calling hath a part of our charge, in so much that I should bee your admonisher, and you all my coadiutors. For which respect our intent is by other good meanes, and by commissioners appointed for this purpose, to learne and trie howe well our lieutenants fauour and execute iustice, and howe religiously our Bishops liue and preach: WILLING TOV ALL VVITHOVT EXCEPTION TO OBSERVE OVR COMMANDEMENT IN ALL THINGS AND HONOVR SVCH AS WE SEND FOR ANY OCCASION OR BVSINES EITHER ECCLESI∣ASTICALL OR TEMPORAL, AND IN RESPECT OF OVR AVTHORITIE NOT TO FAILE BVT PERFORME THOSE THINGS WHICH WE HAVE ENIOYNED YOV BY THEM.

Nowe the charge that wee giue our visitours is this. First they shall indict assem∣blies in two or three places, whither all within the limittes of their commission shall resort, and there make it knowne to all men what is the summe and effect of their message, to witte, that wee haue appointed them for this cause, that IF ANY BISHOP or Lieutenant can not do his duetie by reason of any impediment, hee should haue recourse to them, and by their helpe discharge his dutie: and if the matter bee such as by their industrie can not bee redressed, then shall it bee brought by them to our knowledge: and againe, IF ANY BISHOP or Lieutenant BE FOVND NEGLIGENT IN HIS OFFICE, by their moniti∣on he shalbe refourmed.

Wee charge them likewise to make knowen to all men the Chapters or Lawes, QVAE GENERALITER DE QVIBVSCVNQVE CAVSIS STATVIMVS, WHICH WE HAVE DECREED GENERALLY CONCERNING ALL MANER OF CAVSES, and do their best to see them throughly kept of all men. And if any of the things which we haue ordained and commaunded be found imperfect by some defect happily which they can not amend, then shall they with speede make relation thereof

to vs that we may correct that which they cannot.

And because the last yere our expectation was not satisfied in such sort as we looked for,* 2.32 we will that this present (yere) our visitours whom wee haue allotted to this seruice, haue (better) respect and care how euery man that we haue pre∣ferred to the gouernance of our people in his calling dischargeth his dewtie to Gods pleasure, our honor, & the benefite of our subiects: and this shall be the very course of their inquirie, whether the things contained in our Capitular, which we deliuered them this yere past, be kept and obserued according to Gods will & our commaundement. Therefore about the midst of May next shall they assem∣ble, I meane our visitours euerie man in his diuision with all the Bishops, Ab∣bats, Lieuetenants, our fee men and aduocats (the Abbesses and such as cannot come to send their proxies the liuetenant to bring with him his vnder officers and hundreders) and in that conuent shall they first conferre touching Christian religion and ecclesiastical order,* 2.33 next they shall inquire of our officers how they doe their du∣ties, last of our people in what concord and peace they liue. And this inquisition shall they make so diligently and exactly, that we may be trewly certified by thē of al these points. And if any such cause be brought before thē which needeth their help according to the condition of the causes specified in the short rehearsal of our lawes, then our wil is they shall go to the place and re∣dresse it by the warrant of our authoritie.

You can neither bee so simple but you may see,* 2.34 nor so partial but you must graunt that Ludouike and Lotharius behaued themselues as rightful superui∣sours of the Bishops in their Empire,* 2.35 how they liued and preached: ayding those that were hindered, correcting those that were negligent in their mi∣nisteries:* 2.36 and sent visitours to inquire and redresse by their Princely power any cause that needed reformation in Christian religion or ecclesiastical or∣der:* 2.37 commaunding all men generally to reuerence and obay them as wel in ecclesiastical as common wealth matters in respect of their royal authoritie. What more than this doth that oth impart, which you so much declaime against? Or what lesse than this did Ludouike and Lotharius execute? Can their procee∣dings please you, and our words expressing the selfesame right offend you? You must either reiect both or admit both: they bee so neare linked, you can not disseuer them.

I now make your selfe iudge, whether these Christian and Catholike Prin∣ces were not commaunders and punishers (those we call gouernours) of Bishops, Priests, and Moncks, in maters and causes ecclesiasticall.

Phi.

I see they were, but yet not supreme, which is the cheefest thing that we mislike in your oth.

Theo.

I beleeue you well; for by that worde we denie Princes to bee subiect to the Popes consistorie, which is the chiefest thing you respect.

Phi.

That worde maketh them superiours to God himselfe: for supreme is superiour to all, neither Christes owne per∣son, nor his Church excepted.

Theo.

Can you make such merriments when you be disposed?

Phi.

Doth

not the word inferre superiour to all, or at least subiect to none?

Theo.

Was it in question, when this othe was made, whether God should be superior to man, or whether Princes should bee subiect to the Pope?* 2.38

Phi.

It skilleth not what was then in question, these bee nowe your woordes.

Theo.

By this cun∣ning you may conclude all that euer wrate with pen or spake with tongue to be wicked blasphemers.

Phi.

Why so?

Theo.

Where the superlatiue is vsed, by your rule, God himselfe is not excepted. And so these phrases, a most wise teacher, a most holy Bishoppe, a most mightie prince, and ten thousand such like, which we find in all mens bookes and speeches, bee meere impieties. For they import that many bee wiser, holyer, and mightier than Christ himselfe, or at lest as wise, holy and mightie as he, which is open & inexcusable blasphemie. Name me what father or writer you will, and see by this art of yours whether I proue him not a blasphemer.

Phi.

* 2.39That is no right vnderstanding but a foolish carping at mens wordes. For when we giue these titles to men, sanctissimus, potentissimus, beatissimus, the most holy father, the most puissant king, the most blessed Martyr, we meane amongst men; wee compare them not with God.

Theo.

And since all men euen your selues speake so, why doe you take that foolish aduantage at the word supreme, which we vse; as if we ment not amongst men, but exalted Princes a∣boue God?

Phi.

But the Church of Christ is not excepted, and that consisteth of men.

Theo.

If by the Church of Christ you meane the faithfull liuing on earth, certainely Princes be not subiect, but superiours to all Christian men. Peter spake to the chosen and elect of God when hee sayde,* 2.40 Bee subiect to the king as to the chiefe; Paul willed Titus to warne not the miscreants but the be∣leeuers in Creta, to bee subiect to principalities and powers: and wrate him∣selfe to all the Saintes at Rome, You must bee subiect for conscience sake. If the Saintes must bee subiect to Princes, ergo the Church; for the Church on earth is nothing els but the collection of Saintes. And if euery soule, that is euery man, must bee subiect,* 2.41 howe can the Church consi∣sting of men bee exempted? But if by the Church you meane the preceptes and promises, giftes and graces of God preached in the Church and pou∣red on the Church, Princes must humbly obey them and reuerently receiue them as well as other priuate men. So that Prophets, Apostles, Euan∣gelists and all other buylders of Christes Church, as touching their Persons, bee subiect to the Princes power; mary the word of trueth in their mouthes, and the Seales of grace in their handes, because they are of God, not of themselues, they be farre aboue the Princes calling and regiment, and in those cases, kinges and Queenes, if they will bee saued, must submit themselues to Gods euerlasting trueth and testament, as well as the meanest of their peo∣ple: but this neither abateth the power which God hath giuen them ouer all men, nor maketh them thrall to the Popes iudiciall processe to bee forced and punished at his pleasure: and therefore, this notwithstanding, Prin∣ces

bee supreme, that is superiour to all, and subiect to none but onely to God.

Phi.

Who euer taught before you that Princes were subiect only to God?* 2.42

Theo.

The Church of Christ from the beginning, Colimus Imperatorem, vt hominem a Deo secundum, & solo Deo minorem: Wee reuerence the Empe∣rour, sayth Tertullian, as a man next vnto God, and inferiour only to God. Againe, Deum esse solum in cuius solius potestate sunt, a quo sunt secundi, post quem primi, ante omnes & super omnes Deos & hommes: It is onely God in whose power alone (Princes) are: in comparison with him they bee second, and after him first, afore all and ouer all both Gods and men. So like∣wise Optatus: Super Imperatorem non (est) nisi solus Deus qui fecit Impe∣ratorem: Aboue the Empe-rour is none but onely GOD, who made the Emperour. And Chrysostome: Parem vllum super terram non habet: (The Emperour) hath no peere on earth, much lesse any superiour.

And that Princes are aboue all,* 2.43 Saint Paul is cleare. Let euery soule bee subiect to the Superiour powers. All must bee subiect to them, ergo they bee superiour to all; and superiour to all, is supreme. Chrysostome calleth the Emperour, The highest and head of all men vpon earth. Iu∣stinian, sayth the Emperour, hath receiued a common gouernement and Principalitie ouer all men. Ambrose sayth of Theodosius, that hee had power ouer all men. And Gregorie, as you hearde, affirmeth that Power is giuen to Princes from heauen ouer all men, not onely Souldiers but also Priestes. And since I before concluded and you confessed all men, were they Monkes, Priestes, Bishoppes, or whatsoeuer, to bee sub∣iect to the Princes power and authoritie both in causes ecclesiasti∣call and temporall, why shoulde that nowe bee reuoked or doub∣ted?

Phi.

I neuer did nor will confesse Princes to bee supreme. For he that iudgeth on earth in Christes steade is aboue them all.

Theo.

You come nowe to the quicke.* 2.44 This very clayme was the cause why the woorde su∣preme was added to the othe: for that the Bishoppe of Rome taketh vppon him to commaund and depose Princes as their lawfull and superiour iudge. To exclude this wicked presumption, wee teach that Princes be supreme rulers, wee meane, subiect to no superiour iudge to giue a reason of their doings but onely to God.

Phi.

This you teach, but this you can not prooue.

Theo.

It forceth not what wee can doe. The burden in this case to prooue is yours and not ours. You say Princes bee subiect to the Popes Consistorie, wee say they bee not. Must wee prooue the nega∣tiue, or must you rather make good your affirmatiue? Againe Saint Paul auoucheth with vs that euery soule is subiect to their power: You contradict those woordes, and say the Pope is not subiect but Superiour to Princes. The generall in precise tearmes concludeth for vs; you except the Pope: must you not prooue your exception?

Phi.

You be loth to proue;* 2.45 you knowe the weakenes of your side.

Theo.

You crosse the plaine wordes of the holy Ghost, and woulde put vs to refute your fan∣sies.

Phi.

Wee say Christs Uicar is not included in those woordes.

Theo.

Wee say the generall includeth euery particular.

Phi.

How could Paul make Peter a subiect to Princes, when Peter was none?

Theo.

Why shoulde not Peter bee subiect to Princes, when God himselfe pronounced by the mouth of Paul that euery soule was subiect to them?

Phi.

Who euer constred S. Pauls words so, besides you?

Theo.

The Church of Christ neuer constred them otherwise. Peter and the Bishoppes of Rome for the first three hundred yeeres, did they not patiently submit themselues as sub∣iects to those punishments and torments which heathen Princes inflicted on o∣ther Christians?

Phi.

In deede they were martyred for the most part by the rage of Infidels, that knewe them not.

Theo.

And the Christians that knewe them, neuer tooke armes to defend thē against the rage of Infidels, but thought them subiect to higher powers by force of S. Pauls words, as well as all other Bishoppes were.

Phi.

They might not resist though they were wrongful∣ly vexed.

Theo.

And why might they not, but because they were subiect by Gods ordinance to the Princes power? Unlawfull violence might well bee resisted.

Phi.

* 2.46Christian Princes were neuer superiours to the Bishoppes of Rome.

Theo.

Syr, your courage is more than your cunning. The Bishops of Rome for eight hundred and fiftie yeres after Christ, that we can directly proue, were duetifull and obedient subiects to Christian Emperours.

Phi.

Are you not ashamed to tell such a tale?

Theo.

Will you be ashamed of your error, if I proue it a trueth?

Phi.

Shewe mee that, and I will yeeld the rest.

Theo.

The rest is alreadie proued,* 2.47 and this shall be presently shewed. I might alleage that after the Romane Emperours began to professe the name of Christ, Iulius and Liberius were banished by Constantius; Bonifacius the first by Honorius; Syl∣uerius and Vigilius by Iustinian; Martyne the first by Constantine the thirde; and diuers other Popes by sundrie Princes, but that I will skippe, & come to the submission of Leo the fourth made to Ludouike the West Emperour with these wordes: If we haue done any thing otherwise than well, and not dealt vprightly with those that are vnder vs, wee will amend all that is amisse by the iudgement of your highnes, beseeching your excellencie to sende, for the better triall of these surmises, such as in the feare of God may narrowly sift not onely the matters infourmed, but all (our doings) great and smal, as well as if your Maiestie were present: so that by lawfull examination all may bee finished, and nothing left vndiscussed or vndetermined. In all things, great and small, the Pope submitteth himselfe to the Princes commissioners, and offereth to amend all that is amisse by the princes iudgement. This lowly submission importeth an euident subiection.* 2.48

Phi.

It was a dispensation of the Popes humilitie, not any part of his bounden duetie thus to doe.

Theo.

So Gratian the compiler of your decrees

falueth the matter; which is as much as if you sayde, the Pope by right might haue commaunded the Prince, but in a merie moode, for once, to make sport, he would needes bee iudged and ordered by the Prince. Is not this a proper kind of diuinitie, when the Pope protesteth his obedience to the Princes power and lawes, to say the Pope speaketh in iest, his wordes are but a tricke of vo∣luntarie, which he may recall or refuse when hee will? If such vnlearned, irreli∣gious, and vnsavory shiftes may serue for good answeres, you may soone defend what religion you lift. It is a very short and easie methode to be rid of all exam∣ples and histories, to say they did so: but it was more than needed or should haue beene done.

Phi.

In temporall matters it might be the Pope was subiect to the Prin∣ces power,* 2.49 but not in spirituall.

Theo.

No man can bee both a subiect and a su∣periour to the Princes power. A subiect is alwayes a subiect, that is at al times to bee commaunded and punished by the magistrate: neuer to command or pu∣nish the Magistrate. Againe Leo referreth him selfe in all thinges both great and small to the Princes pleasure and censure: now a subiect in all thinges, is superiour in nothing: yet left you shoulde cauill, that ecclesiasticall cau∣ses are not expresty mentioned in this place, you shall see that the Bishoppes of Rome for eight hundred yeeres and aboue, were suppliants and seruants not of curtesie but of duetie to Christian Emperours, and obeyed their ec∣clesiasticall Lawes and edicts, and were commaunded and ouerruled by them in the regiment of the Church, as the stories that follow shall plainely declare.

Donatus and his fellowes pretending that Cecilianus could not be Bishop of Carthage for many crimes falsely surmised,* 2.50 and specially for that Felix, which layed handes on him had (as they sayde) betrayed or burnt the scriptures: not onely refused his communion, and procured his condemnation in a Pro∣uinciall Synode by lxx. Africane Bishoppes, but in a tumult erected an o∣ther Bishoppe besides him, diuided the people from him, and offering a bill of complaint against him to the Proconsull of Africke, made a request to Constantine, that hee woulde giue them iudges to decide the matter. The Prince carefull to keepe the Church in peace, did authorize Meltiades Bi∣shoppe of Rome, Marcus a Clergieman of the same Citie, but as then no Bi∣shop, Rheticius, Maternus, and Maximus three Bishoppes of Fraunce to con∣sider their allegations and determine the strife: Where sentence passing with Cecilianus, the contrarie part appealed from the commissioners to the Prince. This appeale Constantine might haue iustly reiected as made from his owne delegates; but seeking all meanes to pacifie the schisme, comman∣ded a greater number of their Bishoppes to meete together at Arle in France, there to sit in Councell a fresh about the hearing and ending of this quarell: from whome, for that they likewise concluded Cecilianus to be right Bishop of Carthage, the Donatists appealed as they had done from the first: adding nowe, that if Cecilianus himselfe were cleare, yet so long as Felix was

guiltie, which ordered and confirmed him, his election must needes bee voyde. The patient and mild Emperour seeing them twise conuicted and not conten∣ted, but still murmuring against the Bishoppes as partiall, and dayly mole∣sting his eares with importunate suite, neuer troubled Bishoppe or Councell with the clearing of Felix, but appointed Aelianus a ciuill Magistrate to search out the trueth of these later accusations in a temporall Court, where Felix after diligent examination was iudicially discharged and acquitted from all suspition of that sacrilegious abusing the woorde of God. Then were both sides called before Constantine to receiue iudgement at his handes without appeale, who taking paynes in his owne Person to sit iudge betweene them, and exactly weighing what either part could say, gaue sentence with Cecilia∣nus, against Donatus, making therewithall a most sharpe Lawe to punish the Donatists (if they persisted in their wilfulnes) as dissentious schismatikes, from the Church of Christ: which rigour the Christian Emperours that followed, did rather increase than diminish. This I thought good to report out of Eusebius,* 2.51 Optatus and Austen somewhat the larger, that the circum∣staunces being fully knowen, the conclusion might the better bee per∣ceiued.

I trust you will not denie but the strife betweene Cecilianus and Donatus consisted both of persons and causes ecclesiasticall. The parties accused and ac∣cusing were Bishoppes; the faultes obiected, were iust impediments of episco∣pall dignitie; the matters in doubt were the committing and partaking of sa∣crilege, the right election of Bishoppes, the lawfull deposing of them by Sy∣nodes, the needefull communion with them, or schismaticall dissention from them. No causes can possiblely touch the regiment of Christes Church neerer than these: wel then in these causes who was supreme, Meltiades or Constan∣tine?* 2.52 The bishop of Rome or the Emperour? The prince sent commission to the Pope, ioyned other collegues with him, receiued an appeale from him, gaue se∣cond iudges after him, and in his owne person pronounced finall sentence with∣out him: the least of these facts proueth the prince superiour to the Pope; and all these did that famous Emperour, and his doings in this case were very well ly∣ked and accepted in the Church of Christ.

Which of these things wil you now encounter? Did not Cōstantine authorize Meltiades?* 2.53 His commission is yet extant to Meltiades Bishoppe of Rome and Marcus with these words: My pleasure is, that Cecilianus with ten Bishops of his accusers and other tenne of his fauourers come to Rome, there to be heard before you both, ioyning with you Rheticius, Maternus, and Marinus your collegues, whom purposely for this matter I haue willed with speede to re∣paire vnto you. S. Austen debating with the Donatists what iust exceptions they could take to so many sentences giuen against them, moueth this doubt & maketh this answere, Should not (thinke you) Meltiades Bishop of Rome with his collegues haue vsurped that iudgement, which lxx. Africane Bishops had ended? What, that he did not vsurpe? For the Emperour vpon motion made

(by you) sent Bishops to sit with him as iudges, and to rule that matter in e∣uery point as iustice should leade them. This we proue by the Donatists sup∣plication and the Princes owne wordes. If S. Austen defend the Bishoppe of Rome from vsurping in this case, by producing & vrging a commission from the prince, then apparētly, both the pope was authorized by y^• princes power to giue iudgemēt in a matter ecclesiastical, & had bin, but for that warrant, an vsurper.

Phi.

S. Austen sayth that Constantine durst not be iudge of a Bishops cause.* 2.54

Theo.

At the first hee was loth to sit iudge in his owne person, for that he was not acquainted with the Church Canons which were then brought in question:* 2.55 but at length when he saw no remedie, himself sate in iudgement both after the Pope and after the Councell, and heard the whole matter, and ended it for euer. This inferreth that at the first when he refused he wanted not power to commaund, but skill to discerne; more requisite in a iudge than the former: Yea at the first when he durst not sit iudge himselfe for lacke of experience, hee shewed his soueraintie by making delegates to heare and order the cause. So sayth S. Austen the very next wordes.* 2.56 For that Constantine durst not be iudge himselfe of a Bishops cause, eam discutiendam at que finiendam Episcopis delega∣uit: he made delegates of the Bishops to discusse and determine the same. And againe, causam Ceciliani iniunxit eis audiendam, he gaue foorth a precept (to the Bishoppe of Rome and others) for hearing of Cecilianus his matter.* 2.57 Now to delegate the Bishoppe of Rome with others, and to giue fresh iudges after them, is an argument of greater authoritie, than if the Prince in Person had beene iudge in the cause.

Did not Constantine receiue that appeale which the Donatists made from Meltiades,* 2.58 and assigne them other iudges? His Epistle to Chrestus Bishoppe of Siracusas in Sicile, whom he willed to be present at the Councell of Arle for the ending of the same matter, is an euident proofe that hee did. At the first, sayth Constantine, when this schisme beganne, I wrate my letters and tooke this order: that certaine Bishops comming from Fraunce, & the parties in strife called for out of Africke, the Bishop of Rome being also there, in their pre∣sence this quarrell should be throughly considered and pacified. Mary for so much as they will not agree to the sentence there giuen, but goe forward in their outragious dissention, I must take care that (the strife) which should haue caulmed of it selfe at the first decision, at least may now bee composed by the meeting of many. Hauing therefore charged a great number of Bi∣shops out of diuers coastes to assemble by the kalends of August at Arle, I thought it not amisse by letters to require you, that you fayle not to be with them at the time & place appointed: that by your vprightnes with the good aduise and full consent of the rest, which shall then & there meete you, vp∣on diligent hearing what either side can say (whom we haue commanded to be likewise present) they may be reduced from the schisme yet during, to religion, fayth, and brotherly concord, as in duetie they be bound.

When Meltiades and his collegues (sayth Austen to the Donatists) had* 2.59

pronounced Cecilianus innocent and condemned Donatus as authour of the schisme raised at Carthage, your side came backe to the Emperour, & com∣plained of the iudgement of the Bishops against them. The most patient & mild Emperour the second time gaue them other iudges (namely) the Bi∣shops (that met) at Arle in Fraunce.* 2.60 Certes the taking of an appeale made from the Bishoppe of Rome and appointing other iudges after him, and besides him, strongly concludeth the Princes authoritie to bee farre aboue the Popes, euen in causes ecclesiasticall, or as you terme them spirituall.

* 2.61Will you lastly say that Constantine sate not iudge himselfe in this mat∣ter, as well after Meltiades, as after the Councell of Arle? S. Austen is flat a∣gainst you. Your men, sayth he, speaking to the Donatists, appealed (from the Bishoppes at Arle) to the Princes owne person, and neuer left till the Empe∣rour himselfe tooke the hearing of the cause betweene them both, and pro∣nounced Cicilianus innocent, and those (his accusers) to be malitious wrang∣lers. And againe: the Donatists appealed from ecclesiasticall iudgement that Constantine might heare the cause. Whither when they came, both partes standing before him, Cecilianus was adiudged to bee innocent, & the Dona∣tists ouerthrowen. To proue this, I will bring you (sayth Austen) the very wordes of Constantine taken out of his letters where hee witnesseth that vp∣on iudiciall hearing of both sides, hee found Cecilianus to be cleare. For first declaring how the parties were brought to his iudgement, after two iudge∣ments of Bishoppes (alreadie past,) there (saith Constantine) I fully percei∣ued, that Cecilianus was a man most innocent, obseruing the dueties of his religion, and folowing the same: neither coulde any crime bee faste∣ned on him as his aduersaries had in his absence suggested.

* 2.62And shewing what followed vppon this iudgement: Then did Constantine sayth hee, first make a most sharpe lawe to punish the Donatists. His sonnes continued the same: read what Valentinian; read, when you will, what Gra∣tian and Theodosius decreed against you. Why wonder you then at the chil∣dren of Theodosius, as if they shoulde haue followed any other president in this cause than the iudgement of Constantine which so many Christian Emperours haue kept inuiolable? Though Constantine bee dead, yet the iudgement of Constantine giuen against you liueth. For when Emperours commaunde that which is good, it is Christ and no man els that commaun∣deth by them.

* 2.63Lay these thinges together, and marke the consequent. First the Bishoppe of Rome and his assessours were appointed by the Prince to meddle with this matter as his delegates. Next vppon complaint of their partiall dealing the Prince commaunded others (leauing out the Bishoppe of Rome) to sit in Fraunce to conclude the same cause. Thirdly the Donatistes still appealing, the Prince called for both sides, hearde them in his owne per∣son, gaue small iudgement with Cecilianus, and discharged him as innocent, & therewith made a penall edict against the Donatists. Fourthly these prince∣ly

proceedinges of Constantine, the Church of God receiued with honor, and vsed with gladnesse; the Christian Emperours imbraced as vertuous, and con∣firmed as religious; S. Austen alleadgeth them as substantiall proofes for the Catholikes, and effectuall iudgements against the Donatistes: Now speake vprightly, whether in this case the Prince were not superiour to the Pope, yea supreme gouernour of Ecclesiasticall persons and causes.

To Theodosius the elder Damasus,* 2.64 Siricius, & Anastasius, as I shewed be∣fore, made grieuous complaints one after an other, against Flauianus for en∣tring and possessing the See of Antioch contrarie to the Canons of the church. The prince sending for Flauianus, heard his answere, and admiring the cou∣rage and wisedome of the man, willed him to returne to his countrie, and feede the flocke committed to his charge, notwithstanding the Bishops of Rome for the space of seuenteene yeares before would neither acknowledge him for a Bishop, nor communicate with him.

Of Arcadius his son, Innocentius the Bishop of Rome requested a Councel for the trial of Chrysostoms cause: but his petition was denied, his messengers sent awaie with reproach as troublers of the West Empire, Chrysostom ba∣nished farther off, and this edict giuen forth by Arcadius the East Emperour a∣gainst those that taking part with Innocentius, and fauouring Chrysostom, refused to communicate with Theophilus his deposer and Atticus his succes∣sor. If any Bishop will not communicate with Theophilus & Atticus, let him be depriued of his church and his goods: if they be laymen they shall for∣feite, the magistrates their dignities, the souldiers their girdle, the common sort let them be fined and exiled.

By Honorius an other of his sonnes, ruling the West partes,* 2.65 Bonifacius and Eulalius, chosen Bishops of Rome in a tumult, were both commaunded to depart the Citie: and Bonifacius, after he was restored, put vp * 2.66 a suppli∣cation to the prince for a decree that no man by suite or other vnlawfull meanes might be made Bishop of Rome: to whom Honorius sent back this rescript, By the mouth of your holines we hill haue this knowen to al Clergy men, that when you shall forgo this life, which we wish not, they may learne to surcease from ambitiō. For if two striuing be chosen, neither of them shall continue Bishop, but he onely shall remaine in the See Apostolike, whom the diuine iudgement and general consent shall elect a fresh out of the cler∣gie. This must therefore be kept, that all may put on quiet and contented mindes by our gentle admonition, and not attempt any thing by seditious packing, since we be resolued that neither faction shall preuaile.

It was no strange thing in those daies for the Bishop of Rome to be suppliāt and subiect in church matters to christian Princes. When Eutiches first bro∣ched his error,* 2.67 that the fleshe of Christ in substance was not like this of ours: Leo thē Bishop of Rome made this sute to Theodosius the yonger: If it please (your Highnesse) to graunt my supplication, & to command a Councell of Bishops to be kept in Italie, speedily by Gods helpe might all things be re∣dressed,

which nowe trouble the whole Church: but hee did not obtayne so much. For Theodosius appointed their meeting at Ephesus, and for hast prefixed so short a time, that the Bishoppes of Italie could not bee pro∣uided for the iourneie:* 2.68 Yet Leo sending his Deputies excuseth his absence by writing in these wordes: Although to bee present at the day which your godlinesse prescribed for the Councell no possible meanes doe per∣mit, neither by former examples (is my presence required,) and vrgent occasions at this time suffer me not to forsake this Citie, specially conside∣ring the point of faith (which Eutiches infringeth) is so cleare that a Coun∣cell might well haue beene spared: yet haue I doone my best, to obeie your graces precept in this, by dispatching thither such of my brethren as may suffice for this matter and shall supplie mine absence.

When this Councell by the violent threatning and mischieuous packing of Diosco us Bishop of Alexandria, there president, had allowed the cursed opi∣nion of ^r Eutiches, and deposed Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople for procee∣ding against him: Leo becommeth a fresh suter to Theodosius in most earnest and humble manner.* 2.69 For so much as the Councell of Bishops, which you commanded to be kept at Ephesus, concerning the matter of Flauianus, hath (in sight) hurt the faith, and wounded all churches: all the churches of these parts about vs, al the Priests make supplication to your Maiestie with sighes and teares, that it might please you to commaund a generall councell to bee held within Italie: behold most christian and reuerent Emperour, I with the rest of my fellow Bishops beseech you to command that all things may stād in the same state, in which they were before any of these iudgements, vntill a greater number of Bishops may be gathered out of the whole world.

* 2.70This request of his he besought the Princesse Pulcheria to commend vnto Theodosius hir brother. I haue written to the most glorious and christian Prince; that for the calling of a councell within Italie, time might be set, & and place appointed; all quarrels and iudgementes past on either side (for the meane while) suspended: which thing that wee may the rather obtaine (I beseech you) let your accustomed deuotion, which neuer failed the church in her troubles, further our supplication with his Maiestie.

* 2.71The same Leo desireth the clergie, Nobles, & citizēs of Constantinop. where Theodosius lay, to ioyne with him, for the better preuailing in his suite: Put vp an humble supplication (I pray you) with good aduise, that the most grati∣ous Emperour wil vouchsafe to grant our petition which we make for a ge∣neral councel to be summoned: yet all the prayers & meanes that Leo coulde vse notwithstanding, Theodosius perswaded to the contrarie by Chrysaphius master of his pallace (who was present at the said councel of Ephesus & great∣ly fauoured the faction of Dioscorus) would neuer incline to graunt him any thing, but alwaies refused his request.

* 2.72If the Bishop of Rome might haue commanded thus much against the Princes will, and with-out the Princes power, what needed such lowly

supplications? Why did he make so great friendes, fet so deepe sighes, shed so many teares, and all in vaine? What follie was it to wast so much labour and time to no purpose, when the least word of his mouth, as you pretende, might haue commaunded both Emperour and Councell? But if, for restitution of the parties grieued on either side to their first estates, for suspension of all actes and proceedings past in three Synodes, for indiction of a generall Councell to debate their cause; the Pope were to sue, the Prince to graunt; as appeareth by the plaine confession and humble submission of Leo: then you see that in the Primatiue Church of Christ the Pope was wont to come to the Prince with a supplicamus for matters Ecclesiastical, and not onely besought him as his superiour with all humilitie, but obeyed him in such cases as his Lord and Soueraigne with all dutie.

After Theodosius succeeded Martian, who by the perswasion of the vertu∣ous Ladie Pulcheria ioynt Empresse with him, was content to call a gene∣rall Councell: but as touching the time which Leo requested, and the place which he desired,* 2.73 the prince refused the Popes petitiō in them both. I besought your Grace (saith Leo) that the councell which wee made sute for, and you iudged needful to pacifie the East church, might by your commandement bee differred till some better opportunitie: but because you led with a de∣uoute respect prefer Gods matters before mans, I labour not against that, which your Highnes hath disposed: yea rather I did with so great gladnes imbrace your Maiesties trauell to call a Synode for reducing the church to concord, that although my selfe were a suter to haue it kept within Italie, and a fitter time to be chosen that more store of Bishops might be sent for from the farthest partes; yet so soone as your Graces writ was deliuered me, foorthwith I directed (some) to supplie my roome.

When this Councell was assembled, Leo began to make farther sute to Martian in this wise:* 2.74 [The second councell of Ephesus] can not rightly be called a councell, which apparantly subuerted the faith, and which your Highnes for verie loue to trueth will make voide, by your decree, to the contrarie, most glorious Emperour. I therefore earnestly request and beseech your Maiestie by the Lord Iesus Christ the founder and gui∣der of your kingdom, that in this councell (of Chalcedon) which is pre∣sently to bee kept, you will not suffer the faith to bee called in questi∣on, which our blessed Fathers helde, deliuered them from the Apostles, neither permit such (errours) as haue beene long since condemned by them, to bee nowe reuiued againe: but that you will rather com∣maunde the faith concluded in the first Nicene Councell to stande in full force, remouing all the (latter) deuises of Heretikes. Which re∣quest Martian accomplished, entering the Councell in his owne person, and there by word of mouth absolutely forbidding the Bishops to defend or auouch any thing of the flesh and birth of our Sauiour otherwise thā the Nicene creed did containe.* 2.75

To this councel of Chalcedon Leo willed by Martiā to subscribe returned his answere in this suppliant & duetifull order:* 2.76 Because I must by all meanes obey your sacred and religious will I haue set down my consent (in writing) to those Synodall constitutions which for the confirmation of the catholike faith, and condemnation of heretiks pleased me very well. What better wit∣nesse can we produce, that in causes Ecclesiasticall the Prince was the Popes superiour than this, that for repealing the Councell of Ephesus, for summo∣ning the Councell o•• Chalcedon, for charging those 600. and 30. fathers not to decline from the Nicene faith, and requiring the Bishop of Rome to sub∣scribe to their actes, Martian commaundeth with authoritie, Leo with al rea∣dinesse obeyeth: yea that Leo beseecheth Martian to commaund, and protesteth that for his part, he did and must obey the Princes will in those cases?

* 2.77We COMMAVND (saith Iustinian) the blessed ARCHBISHOPS of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Theopolis, and Ierusalem, to receiue for ordering and instauling of Bishoppes onely that which this present Lawe doeth allow. And taxing the charges of euery Bishoppe according to the yearly value of his Church: * 2.78 If any man (saith hee) presume to take for installations or other duties aboue the rate which we prefixe, we cōmand that he repay thrise so much of his own to the church or bishop in that sort grieued. Neither doth he limit the Popes receites onely, but also bindeth him with the rest by this ge∣neral constitution: If any man be made Bishop contrary to the forme which this law prescribeth,* 2.79 the party confirmed shall loose his Bishopricke, and the confirmer stand suspended from his Ecclesiasticall function one whole year, and besides forfeit all his goods to the vse of his owne church: mary when a bishop is accused of any thing that doth by the (sacred) canons or (our) lawes hinder his consecration; if any man order him before diligent exa∣mination had,* 2.80 as well he that did order him, as he that is ordered, shal for euer be depriued. Thus coulde auncient Princes commaund in causes, and correct for offences Ecclesiasticall, euen the chiefest Patriarkes, and namely the Bishop of Rome, who now taketh on him to depose Princes, and dispose kingdomes at his pleasure.

This illation is more than euident by the wordes of Gregorie the first, who writing to the Emperour Mauritius,* 2.81 vseth euery where this stile: My Lord, my most gracious Lord, I your seruant, and subiect to your commaunde∣ment; and that not in temporall causes, but in things concerning the rules and orders of Christes church, as by the speciall circumstances will appeare. Mau∣ritius, perceiuing that many coueted to be Clergi-men and Monkes, some to preuent the daunger of their accomptes, others to decline the burden of war∣fare, made this decree, that no souldier, nor officer accountant to the Prince for any summes of mony, should be receiued to sacred orders, or Monastical pro∣fession: charging the Bishoppe of Rome, to giue notice thereof to the rest of his Prouince. Gregorie though very much amased and grieued at the strange∣nesse of this law, yet durst not resist or refuse the same, but first with all dili∣gence

put the commaundement of Mauritius in execution, and afterward fell to beseeching him to relent somewhat from the rigour of this hard and seuere pro∣hibition.

My Lord hath giuen forth this edict, saith he, that no man entangled with seruice for the common weale should enter any ecclesiasticall function,* 2.82 which I greatly praysed; knowing that he which on the suddaine steppeth from a secular trade to a spiritual charge, doth not meane to leaue, but ex∣change the world. Where it is added that none such should be suffered in any Monasterie;* 2.83 this I maruailed at, seeing the place doth not hinder the making of his accompts, nor the paiment of his debts. It followeth in the same law; That no man once mustered as a souldier should cōuert (from that calling and become a Monke.) Which constitution, I confesse to my Lord, did euen astonish mee: because the way to heauen is thereby shut vp from many men, and that now prohibited as vnlawfull which hath hitherto bin (frankly) permitted. And what am I that speake to my Lord but dust and a verie worme? Yet for that this Edict tendeth against God the creator of all thinges, I can not conceale so much from my Lord. I therefore beseech you by the dreadful iudge, that your holines wil either mitigate or abrogate this rigorus proclamation. I for my part as subiect to your commaunde∣ment, haue sent your precept into sundrie coastes: yet because your Lawe doeth not stand with Gods glorie, Lo by letters I haue acquainted my most glorious Lord there-withall. So that I haue either way done my duetie, which haue both yeelded obedience to my Prince, and in Gods behalfe dis∣burdened my conscience. I your vnworthie suppliant waxe not thus bold, either in respect I am a Bishop, or in that I am your seruant by publike right, but resting on your (speciall) and priuate fauour, for that most gracious So∣ueraigne, you were my Lord (and master) when as yet you were not Lord (and chiefe) ouer all. If it be possible for a subiect to shew more submission and dutie to the Princes commaundement, than the Bishop of Rome doth to Mauritius, restraining all Bishops by his princely power from admission of such Monkes, and election of such Clerkes as hee disabled; let your Apologie bee had in some credit: but if greater obedience than these wordes import, nei∣ther Gods law doth exact, nor Princes can expect; I trust Gregories owne confession shalbe taken without exception.

The like submission vpon like occasion is extant in other his Epistles: as when Mauritius willed him to grow to some concord with Iohn Bishop of Cō∣stantinople, to whom or from whom Gregorie would in no wise send or ac∣cept letters of communion & societie, because the saide Iohn entitled him v∣niuersall Patriarke. I haue, saith hee, receiued letters from my vertuous Lord, that I should be at peace with my brother and fellow Bishop Iohn. In deed it well beseemeth a religious Prince to commaund Bishops in such things: mary this was heauie to me, that my Soueraigne Lord did not re∣buke him for his pride, but indeuor to bow me from my purpose, which in

this cause stand with humilitie and sinceritie to defend the Gospel and Ca∣nons.* 2.84 Hee rather is worthie to bee threatned with your Maiesties com∣mandement which refuseth to be subiect to the Canons: he to be repressed, which offereth a wrong to the vniuersall Church. Let my Lord (I beseech him) somewhat respect me being his own, whom he hath alwayes fauored aboue others, which am also very desirous to yeeld him obedience, and yet am I loth to be conuicted in that last & fearfull iudgement of (ouer much) negligence. Let my Soueraign Lord voutsafe to sit iudge in this matter him∣self, or els to make him to surcease his intēt. I as obediēt to my Lords precepts haue gentlely written to my said fellow Bishop, & humbly warned him to forgo that vaine title.* 2.85 As much as in me lieth I am readie to obey the com∣mandement of your Maiestie: yet for that the cause is not mine, but Gods, & not I alone, but the whole church is troubled, let my gracious Lord launce the right place where the wound is, and subdue the patiēt that resisteth him with the strength of his imperiall power.

Againe when Maximus was ordered Bishop of Salona within Gregories Prouince, yet without Gregories knowledge, thus he cōplaneth of him to Con∣stantia then Empresse.* 2.86 The Bishop of Salona was ordered, neither I, nor my respōsarie witting therof, which thing was neuer attēpted vnder any of the Princes your predecessors. Assoone as I vnderstood therof I sent him word, that he should not presume to celebrate diuine seruice (that he meaneth by the name of Masse) vntill I heard from my Soueraigne Lords, that it was their pleasure it should be so:* 2.87 but he setting naught thereby & despising me (goeth on stil) & will not resort vnto me according as my Lords cōmanded him. Yet I obeying their graces precept did from my hart remit vnto the said Maximus this his presumption as freely as if he had been ordered Bishop by my consent. Onely other offences of his, as fleshly wantonnes, entrance by Simony, ministring the Lords supper after he was put from the cōmuniō, these things I can not skip vnexamined for my duties sake to God: & before these things could be tried,* 2.88 my soueraign Lord preuenting me with his pre∣cept commanded that I should receiue (the said Maximus) at his comming with all honour. This is a pitifull case that a man accused of so great crimes should be honored, before hee bee cleared: & if the faultes of those Bishops which be committed to my charge be born out with my gracious Lords (in this sort) by secret fauorers, vnhappy man that I am, what make I here in this church? Wel, that mine own Bishops contemne me, & haue a refuge against me to secular iudges, I can not but thanke God, & impute it to my sinnes.

If the Bishop of Rome despised and ouerruled in his Episcopall iurisdictiō, neither plead his own supremacy, nor once kick at the Princes autority, but ra∣ther submit himselfe as a seruant & subiect of duty to the princes pleasure, so far as he might, with a safe conscience to Godward: & besides the man so religious, the matter so serious, that in this case iesting were not excusable, lying intolle∣rable, then may you be fully resolued that the primatiue church neuer heard of

this leud & arrogant presumption, which the Pope now claimeth & vsurpeth, I meane to be master & deposer of Princes, but that contrariewise the Bishops of Rome themselues, euen in causes Ecclesiasticall, kept the lawes and obeied the precepts of Christian Emperours, as of their liege Lords & soueraigne rulers. The wordes of Gregorie be so vehement & euident to this effect, that no face cā deny them, no cunning auoid them. You must needs seeke farther for a new di∣stinction: Your first is foolish, your second is false, neither of them coherent with the sacred Scriptures, or auncient histories.

Neither was Gregory the last Bishop of Rome that yeelded obedience to the princes power in causes ecclesiastical. Agatho Bishop of that See 680. yeares after Christ, when Constantine the 1. sent for certaine learned & skilful men of the West parts to treat & confer with the Grecians in the sixt general councell about the truth of religion, returned this dutiful & effectual answere: Most gra∣cious Lord (saith he to Cōstantine,* 2.89 ioyning with him Heraclius & Tiberius his brethren) your sacred letters incouraging vs to shew foorth effectually our prompt & diligent seruice for perfourming that which your edict cōmaun∣ded, & for discharge of our duty, to choose the fittest that could be found in this decaied age, & wretched prouince; we haue directed these our fellow seruants according to the most godly precept of your Maiesty in regard of obediēce which we did ow, not for presumption of their knowledge,* 2.90 for we waxed not bold vpon their cunning, but your princely fauor mildly cōman∣ding (so much) did incite vs, & our basenesse hath obediently fulfilled that which was (by you) commaunded.

And in his second epistle to the same Princesse, he saith: Al the Bishops of the North & West partes, seruants of your christian Empire, giue thanks to God for this your religious intent. The calling of generall Councels to debate mat∣ters of faith, is a point that precisely concerneth the regiment of Christs church: & in that case, we see, the Bishop of Rome confesseth himselfe a seruant, & shew∣eth himselfe obedient to the princes precept: assuring vs by plaine words and a∣g••eeable deeds that this humility proceeded not frō any iesting humor or fained submission, but from the singlenes of his hart, & in respect of his bounden duty: which auerreth our assertion & clearly conuinceth that the Princes authoritie was then superiour to the Popes, euen in causes Ecclesiasticall, which you de∣fend to be no way pertinent to the ciuill magistrate.

I wil end with Leo the 4. the selfsame that first submitted himself to Lodouik the father,* 2.91 & after cōfirmed his obedience to Lotharius the son in these words: As touching the chapters & imperiall preceps of your Highnes & the Princes your predecessors irrefragablely to be kept & obeied, as much as in vs did or dothly; we by al meanes professe that we wil by Christes helpe now and for euer obserue the same: & if any man hath or shall informe otherwise, your Maiestie may right well assure your selfe it is an vntrue tale. The chap∣ters of Charles, Lodouike, and Lotharius, for persons and causes Eccle∣siastical I repeated before: to those the Bishop of Rome eight hundred and fiftie

yeares after Christ promiseth and sweareth not onely present but also per∣petuall obedience to the vtmost of his power without all contradiction. It is easie to see which of these twaine was superiour: hee that had power to make Lawes, not he that was bound to keepe them: he that might commaund, not he that must obey: Lotharius, not Leo.

Can you looke for stronger proofes or plainer wordes that the Prince was the Popes superiour in causes Ecclesiasticall? If the Bishop of Rome were a SERVANT to christian Emperours,* 2.92 then was he not their ruler: If a SVB∣IECT vnder them, then no superiour ouer them: If SVPPLIANT to their persons, and OBEDIENT to their lawes, then no deposer of Princes, nor reseruer of their edicts: to bee short, if they were correctors and iudges of his demainour and doinges, then his claime to punish and depriue them of their kingdomes is vsurped and wicked: and so Princes hauing no superiour but onely God, are consequently supreme gouernours ouer all their subiectes, be they laie-men or Clerkes, to * 2.93 commaund that which is good, and pro∣hibite that which is euill, not in ciuill affaires only, but in matters also con∣cerning diuine Religion.

Phi.

* 2.94I confesse places somewhat moue me, neither can I vppon the sud∣daine answere them; yet are there many both authorities and reasons that make with vs for the contrarie.

Theo.

Shew me but one Scripture, Fa∣ther or Councell all this while that proueth the Pope to bee the Princes supe∣riour, and I will aske no further answere.

Phi.

God saith to Ieremie, I haue appointed thee this day ouer nations & kingdomes to pull vppe, to beate downe, to disperse, to ouerthrow, to build and plant.

Theo.

* 2.95Was Ieremie euer Pope?

Phi.

I doe not saie, hee was.

Theo.

Then that which God spake to Ieremie concludeth no∣thing for the Pope.

Phi.

If a meane Prophet had that power to plant and remoue kingdomes, how much more he, that is head of the vniuersal church, and iudge ouer the whole earth?

Theo.

Your antecedent is false, and your consequent foolish. For Ieremie had no such power as you dreame of: hee was appointed a Prophet to denounce the wrath of God against nations and Countries, not a Prince, to displace Rulers and translate kingdomes. It is a grosse peruerting of the Scriptures to wrest them to that sense. Next your consequent supposeth that the Pope is head of the vniuersall Church and iudge ouer the whole earth; which vaine presumption, is no good illation; you must bring vs better conclusions before they wilbe currant.

Phi.

The text is plaine: I haue appointed thee ouer nations and king∣domes.

Theo.

* 2.96I haue appointed thee ouer them; not a Prince to subdue them, but a Prophet to warne them.

Phi.

How proue you that exposition?

Theo.

The text it selfe saith so. Prophetam Gentibus dedite: I haue made thee a Prophet ouer nations. And the verie next wordes before yours are these, Ecce posui verba mea in ore tuo; ecce constitui te hodie super gentes & super regna, &c.* 2.97 Behold I haue put my wordes in thy mouth, behold I haue ap∣pointed

thee ouer nations and kingdomes: that is a Prophet with my wordes in thy mouth, not a magistrate with the materiall sworde in thine hand. This we likewise proue by the execution of his office. For he prophesied the cap∣tiuitie of the Iewes, the taking of the king and the citie, the destruction of the Aegyptians, Philistines, Moabites, Ammonites, Idumeans, Persians, Damas∣cus, Babylon and other kingdoms & nations; but he neuer deposed king, nor al∣tered state: ergo his cōmission was to foreshew the ruines, ouerthrows, decaies & changes of kingdoms, natiōs & common-wealthes, not to practise them: he was the man that foretolde them, he was not he meanes to worke them.

Theodorete saith of these words: I haue appointed thee ouer natiōs & king∣doms, to pul vp,* 2.98 beat down, disperse, ouerthrow, build & plant:] for he pro∣phesied not only the Iewes captiuity, but their deliuerance by Cyrus. He pro∣phesied also to many other nations al kinds of calamities. And likewise Ber∣nard,* 2.99 Rusticani sudoris quodam schemate labor spiritualis expressus est. Disce sarculo, non sceptro tibi opus esse, vt facias opus Prophetae. By a certaine resemblance of the husbandmās paines the spirituall labor (of the Preacher) is expressed. Learne that thou must haue an hooke to weed, not a scepter (to rule) if thou wilt do the worke of a Prophet. Nicolaus de Lyra 1300. yeares after Christ could hit y^e right sense of this place.* 2.100 I haue appointed thee to roote vp] that is, to de∣noūce the inhabitāts shalbe remoued out of the lād: to built & plāt] that is, to denoūce that the Iewes shalbe builded & plāted again in their own coūtry.

This I take to be the right meaning of the text: if that please you not, but you will haue the Prophet himselfe to be the workman, then Ieremy was sent not to plant and pul vp Pri••••es, not to build and beate downe kingdomes, but as your own gloze saith, to roote vp vices, to beate downe heresies, to build vp vertues.* 2.101 Euery plant, saith Hierom vpon those words, which the heauenly fa∣ther hath not planted, shalbe rooted vp; & the building which hath not his foundation on the rock but in the sand, is vndermined & ouerthrown by the word of God. And Gregory: The Prophet is first willed to destroy, & after to build;* 2.102 first to roote vp, & after to plant; because the foundation of truth is ne∣uer wel laid, except the frame of error be first subuerted. Yea Many, saith Hi∣erō, vnderstand this place of the person of Christ, which destroied the king∣dom of the diuell. Take which of these senses you like best, so you bestowe not that on Ieremy which is proper to Christ,* 2.103 to be king of kings & Lord of lords, nor allow him the liberty that God reserueth to himselfe, to bear rule ouer the kingdom of men, & to giue it to whome hee will; which no Prophet before Christ, no Apostle since Christ, no mortall creature euer claimed or vsed,* 2.104 but onely the whoore of Babilon that raigneth ouer the kinges of the earth.

Phi.

The nations and kings, saith God by Esaie, that wil not serue thee, shall perish.

Theo.

Whose translation is that?

Phi.

The Septuagintes.

Theo.

But the Hebrew is: That nation and kingdom which wil not serue thee, shall perish. And so doth S. Hierom translate.

Phi.

There is no great difference betwixt them.

Theo.

As much as is betweene the Prince and the

people.

Phi.

Both Prince and people must serue the church, or else they shall perish.

Theo.

Wee reason not what they must doe, but what Esaie saith: and hee saith, the kingdome must serue, the king must nurce the church, which is a word of more dignitie than seruice is.* 2.105 Thou shalt sucke the breastes of kinges. And againe: Kinges shall bee thy foster fathers, and Queenes thy nurcing mothers: but I sticke not on this.

Phi.

You neede not: for in plaine wordes it is said a little before:* 2.106 Reges eorum ministrabunt tibi: Their kings shal serue thee.

Theo.

Their kings shall attend thee, or minister vnto thee. The word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 signifieth him that is next about a mā to attend on his person.

Phi.

And they be seruants as well as others.

Theo.

It may be so: neither do I denie that Princes must serue, but whom?

Phi.

The church: so saith S. Hierom: The nations & kings, that will not serue the church,* 2.107 shall perish with that destru∣ction which is prepared for the wicked.

Theo.

You should shew that Princes, which will not serue the Pope must loose their crownes.

Phi.

Grant that Prin∣ces must serue the church, & for the rest we will do well enough.

Theo.

First, grant you that Popes were subiects & seruants to christiā Princes 850. yeares after Christ, which I haue proued & you haue not answered, and for seruice to be done by Princes to the church of Christ, I will not long dissent.

Phi.

Howe can they serue the church, & not serue the Pope, which is head of the church?

Theo.

To whom were these wordes spoken, The kingdome that will not serue thee,* 2.108 shall perish?

Phi.

To the church.

Theo.

To the whole church, or to some speciall members of the church?

Phi.

To the whole.

Theo.

Then may the poorest member of Christs church, & euery Parish-priest chalenge to be the master of Princes & to be serued at their hands as well as the Pope. That which is spoken to all must be common to all. Againe, your owne answere o∣uerthroweth your own assertiō, for this was spoken, you say, to the church: but the Pope is not the church, ergo this was not spoken to the Pope.

Phi.

* 2.109You go too far. It was spoken to the whole but not ment of the whole.

Theo.

Of whom then was it mēt?

Phi.

Of the head, which is a part of the whole. The members of Christs church are not bound to serue one an other, but all to serue the head. In respect of their head they be seruants, in respect of themselues they be brethren.

Theo.

Is the head a part of the bodie?

Phi.

Though the head can not properly be called a member of the bodie, but the head; yet in the whole are contained both the head and the members: as in an Armie some∣times the Captaine and Souldiers; and a kingdom compriseth both the king and his subiects.

Theo.

Then where Esaie saith to Ierusalem, kingdoms shall serue thee; that is, not euery member of thee, but the chiefest and noblest part of thee, which is the head, that all the members serue.

Phi.

And that head is the Pope.* 2.110

Theo.

When you proue the Pope to bee head of the church, then call for Princes to doe him seruice: In the meane time let Princes heare what Dauid saith: Bee wise yee kinges, serue the Lord: and what our Sa∣uiour alleadgeth,* 2.111 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue. At the name of Iesus euerie knee shall bowe, of thinges

in heauen, and of thinges on earth: Yea,* 2.112 let (not onely Princes, but) all the Angels of God worship him: hee is the head to the church which is his bo∣die. Your holy father must staie for his seruice, till his headship may be found in some better records than in your bare supposals.

Phi.

You infer this vpon my confession, which I may change vppon better aduisement. The nation & kingdom that wil not serue thee shall perish. No doubt these words bind Princes to do seruice to the church if not to the Pope.

Theo.

You bound them before to serue the head, and not the bodie: now you wil haue them serue the bodie, and not the head. Well since there is no more hold in your word, I will take surer hold of Esaies wordes. The text which you bring is allegorical,* 2.113 as the whole chap. besides is: & therefore you may draw no literal conclusion from these words, no more than from wals, gates, brasse, yron, gold, siluer, Sunne, Moone, milk, teats, camels, rammes, firre trees, & pine-trees, which also be reckned and promised to Ierusalem in this place.

Phi.

Run you to allegories?

Theo.

You cannot run from them, vnlesse you run from this chapter: read it ouer and see whether I faine or no.

Phi.

Shall then the promises of God be frustrate, because the speaches bee figuratiue?

Theo.

Did I saie they should? No, they bee greater and richer than mans tongue can expresse. But if you presse the letter, they bee false and absurde.* 2.114 For example: All the sheepe of Kedar shall bee gathered vnto thee, the rammes of Nabaioth shall serue thee. For brasse will I bring golde, and for yron siluer; for wood brasse, and for stones yron: Thou shalt haue no more Sunne to shine by daie, neither shall the bright∣nesse of the Moone shine vnto thee: These thinges bee not literally true.

Phi.

I know they be not.

Theo.

The whole chapter goeth after the same sort, ex∣pressing by temporal and terrestrial things, the blessings of God vpō his church which be celestial and eternal.

Phi.

I mislike not this.

Theo.

Euen so the seruice which kinges must do to the church, is not corporall nor external, such as ser∣uing-men yeeld to their masters, or subiectes to their superiours; but an in∣ward deuotion and an humble submission to the graces and mercies of God, proposed & offered in his church.* 2.115 In effect kings must become religious & faith∣ful members of the church to serue God in holines & righteousnes al the daies of their life. To beleeue the word that is preached, to frequent the sacraments that be ministred, to fear the Lord that is honored in al & aboue al: this is the seruice which the church of Christ hartily wisheth & earnestly seeketh at al mens hāds: other solemnities with cap and knee shee neither liketh nor looketh for.

Phi.

Kinges in respect of their calling must serue the church, I meane with their princely power.

Theo.

You say somwhat. In deed kings in that they be kings haue to serue the Lord:* 2.116 so as none cā do which are not kings. For their power ought so to serue the Lord, that by their power they which refuse to be subiect to the wil of God should be punished: but this seruice you will not haue thē to busie w^t, & if happily they command against your liking, you not only discharge thē of their seruice, but of their kingdoms also.

Phi.

Not if they serue

the church as Esaie saith they should.

Theo.

The seruice that is done to Christ the church imbraceth as done to hir self, because she requireth no more but that Christ her Lord & master be serued: and yet the seruice which I nowe speake of namely to preserue subiects in godlines & quietnes, & with wholsome lawes to fraie men from vices & heresies, is done to Christ not in respect of himselfe, but of his church; & concerneth the profit & welfare of the whole church & euery mē∣ber thereof.

Phi.

This is not to serue, but to rule the church.

Theo.

Kings as kings, that is as publike Magistrates, can not serue the church, but by defending her mem∣bers, & repressing her enemies, & this is better seruice to God & his church, than that which your holy father hath taught kings & Emperours, to waite on his trencher, to hold his stirrop, and kisse his feete.

Phi.

We would haue Princes to serue, that is to obey the church, & so S. Paul willeth them.* 2.117 Obey your rulers & be subiect to them, for they watch as being to giue accōpt for your souls. This is spoken as well to Princes as to priuate men.

Theo.

You leape from one thing to an other, & neuer resolue certainly any thing. Can you shew where S. Paul or Esaie, or any other Prophet or Apostle teacheth Princes to be the Popes Bedels & Bailifs to execute his pleasure? The questiō betwixt vs is not whether princes as wel as others must be guided & directed by religious & godly Pastours the way to eternall life, which is S. Pauls meaning in this place, but whether the Pope cloathing himselfe with the name of the church, may command the swords of Princes, & if he like not their doings, take their kingdoms frō thē. Do the places which you bring proue this that I mention? say yea or no.

Phi.

Not expressely, but only because the Pope is Christs Uicar on earth, & head of the church.

Theo.

Will you neuer vnderstand how weake your proofes, & how wide they be from your intention?

* 2.118First, you stil presume & we stil deny that your holy father is the head of the church, and Christs Uicar general vpon the face of the earth. On that false foū∣datiō, what God promiseth to the church in respect of her head which is Christ, you closely conuey to the Bishop of Rome, as heire apparant to that honor and excellency which Christ hath in his church; a friuolous but a blasphemous ima∣gination. Next, what submission & obedience God requireth at al mens, euen at Princes hands, for the reuerencing of his word & obseruing of his law, that you wittingly confound with the temporall iurisdiction & dominion, that the church of Rome claimeth ouer Princes to command their scepters, & if they resist, to depose their persons, which is a wicked & wilfull error. If you loue truth deale plainly, let this cunning go.

Phi.

I seeke for truth, let truth preuaile.

Theo.

Would God you were so minded.

Phi.

I am.

Theo.

That shall wee see by your proceeding.

Phi.

What say you by the wordes of S. Paul, Obey your rulers.

Theo

* 2.119I say the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 signifieth leaders as well as rulers, & in this place standeth rather for leaders than rulers, because S. Paul in this very chap. v∣sing the same worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 Remember your leaders; addeth

Beholding the end of their conuersation,* 2.120 imitate their faith, that is, followe their steppes. If wee must marke them and imitate them, then surely must they be leaders to direct vs and not rulers to master vs. Secondly by 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 whether it be leaders or rulers, are ment not the Pope and his Cardi∣nals, but all that be christian and godly Preachers; this is S. Pauls own con∣struction. Remember your leaders, which haue spoken to you the word of God. We be not bound to their fansies or pleasures, but only to the word of truth proceeding from their mouthes. Lastly obedience here required is no cor∣poral subiection to their persons, but an inward liking and imbracing of their doctrine. For as touching their persons, whom it pleaseth you to call rulers in this place, S. Paul maketh seruāts in other places.* 2.121 We preach not our selues, saith he, but Christ Iesus (to be) the Lord; & our selues your seruants. And a∣gaine,* 2.122 Not that we haue dominion (or rule) ouer your faith, but wee are hel∣pers of your ioy. And that was our Sauiours charge to them al. Kings of nati∣ons rule:* 2.123 with you it shal not be so, but whosoeuer wil be chiefe among you, shalbe the seruant of all. Their function is, as you see, TO SERVE, not to rule their brethren; I meane to feede, not to master the flock of Christ.

Phi.

The Apostle saith, God hath placed thē To rule the Church. Attend to your self & to your whole flock ouer which the holy Ghost hath put you to rule the church.* 2.124

Theo

〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is not, To rule the church, but to feed the church: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 be no rulers, but Sheepheards. Are you not very desi∣rous of rule, when you thus wrest the Scriptures to make your selues rulers?

Phi.

S. Hieroms translation hath Regere ecclesiam, to rule the church. That we follow.

The.

You follow the old corrupt translatiō where it maketh for you, and where you list you leaue it. S. Hierom vpon the first chapter to Tite, saith, In quo posuit vos spiritus sanctus Episcopos, pascere ecclesiam Dei, not regere: And yet regere is to lead & guide with counsel, as wel as to rule or force with authoritie, as you may perceiue by dirigere the compound, which is to direct any man what way he shal go,* 2.125 what things he shal do, what words he shal speake, & yet these be no rulers, nor haue any iudiciall power ouer the parties so directed. The english word that you abuse hath the same sense. In many matters men are ruled by their friends, in sicknes they are ruled by their Physition, in traueling they bee ruled by their guides; and yet neither friends, Physitions nor guides haue any iurisdiction ouer the persons that are ruled by them. Why then do you trouble the world with such ambiguities & perplexities of words? why speake you not distinctly? why conclude you not directly?

The Bishops of Ephesus were set by the holy Ghost to attend their flock, & feede the church.* 2.126 If by this you collect that they were placed by God to teach & instruct the faithful how to walke in his waies, that we graunt & that we know to be most true so long as they do their message from God sincerely, without adding, altering or diminishing: but if by colour of those wordes to rule the church, you seeke to giue the Pope iudiciall power to compell and punish Princes as a Superiour iudge, which is the point we striue for, see what

shamefull violence you offerre the Scriptures. First you falsifie the Text by putting ruling for feeding the church: Next you dawe the word ruling from instructing and exhorting, which is Apostolike; to commaunding and forcing, which our Sauiour forbiddeth all his Disciples: thirdly that which was spo∣ken to the Elders of Ephesus and is common to all Pastours, you present the Bishop of Rome with, as his peculiar charge, though hee neither feede, nor leade the flocke. And so where S. Paul ment the Bishops of Ephesus were set to teach and instruct their brethren, you conclude, the Pope must o∣uer-rule Princes, and take their crownes from them, if they yeelde not the sooner.

Phi.

You mistake me, I do not bring these places to that end.

Theo.

To that end you should bring them; for that is the doubt betwixt vs, & that was my demaund. I required you to shewe Scripture, Father, or Councell for 800. yeares that proueth the Pope superiour to the Prince. Bring somwhat to that end,* 2.127 or else say you can not, and I am answered.

Phi..

I proue the church supe∣rior to the Prince, which is enough to confute the supreme power that you giue to Princes.

Theo.

And what for the Pope? Shall he be superiour to Princes or no?

Phi.

We wil talke of that an other time, we be now reasoning of the church; which I trust you will grant to be superiour to Princes. God saide to the Church, The nation and kingdom, that will not serue thee shall pe∣rish. And,* 2.128 kinges shall serue thee.

Theo.

This is right the trade of your Apologie, to pretende the church, and meane the Pope. You sawe you were neuer able to proue the Popes v∣surped power ouer Princes, and therefore you thought it best to put a vi∣sarde of the Church vppon the Popes face, and to bring him in that sort disguised to the stage; to deceiue the simple with the sounde and shewe of the Church.* 2.129 And for that cause your fourth chapter neuer nameth the Pope, but stil vrgeth The regiment of the church, The iudgement of the church, The churches tribunall, conuerted kingdomes must serue the church; and e∣uerie where the church, the church; and when the Church is confessed to bee superiour to Princes, you set vppe the Pope as heade of the Church to take from her all the superioritie, power and authoritie, which before you claymed for her: and so you make the Church but a cloke-bagge to carrie the Popes titles after him: but staie your wisedomes, the Church may bee superiour, and yet the Pope subiect to Princes; Kinges may serue the Church, and yet commaund your holie father and his gymmoes, the parish Priestes of Rome, for their turning & winding euery way, iustly called Cardinals.

Phi.

* 2.130Can Princes bee supreme and the church their superiour?

Theo.

Why not?

Phi.

If any thing bee superiour, Princes bee not supreme.

Theo.

That I denie. The Scriptures bee superiour to Princes, and yet they supreme; the Sacramentes bee likewise aboue them, and yet that hin∣dereth not their supremacie. Truth, Grace, Faith, Prayer and other

Ghostlie vertues bee higher than all earthly states, and all this notwith∣standing Princes may bee supreme gouernours of their kingdomes and Countries.

Phi.

You cauill nowe, you shoulde compare persons with persons, and not thinges with persons; there may bee thinges aboue Princes, and yet they supreme; but if anie persons bee superiour, then can they not bee supreme.

Theo.

No? The Sainctes in heauen and An∣gels of God bee persons superiour to Princes, and yet may Princes bee su∣preme.

Phi.

Why Theophilus, these bee wrangling quiddities, for shame leaue them. The Sainctes bee superiour in perfection and dignitie, but not in externall vocation and authoritie.* 2.131

Theo.

I like that you saie: but if you looke backe you shall see Philander that you giue iudgement against your selfe.

Phi.

Against my selfe? Why so?

Theo.

The Church is superiour to Princes for those very respectes, which I nowe repeated. First, because the Saincts in heauen, which are part of the church, in happines, per∣fection and dignitie bee many degrees aboue worldely states. Secondly, though the members of the Church bee subiect and obedient to Princes, yet the thinges contayned in the Church and bestowed on the Church by God him-selfe, I meane, the light of his worde, the working of his Sa∣cramentes, the giftes of his grace and fruites of his spirite bee farre superi∣our to all Princes. Nowe view your consequent. The Church in respect of her members in heauen, and graces on earth, is aboue the Prince, ergo the Prince is not supreme but subiect to the Pope. This is worse than wrangling. You confound things and persons, heauen and earth, God and man, to beare out the Popes pride.

Phi.

You stretch the name of the church whither you list.

Theo.

I may better stretch it to these thinges which I specifie, than you restraine it to one onelie man as you doe:* 2.132 But why doe I stretch the church farther than I should? The Sainctes in heauen bee they not members of the church?

Phi.

They bee membees of the church, which is in heauen.

Theo.

And the church in heauen is it an other church from this on earth, or the same with it?

Phi.

I thinke it bee the same.

Theo.

You must not goe by thoughtes. Sainct Paul saith,* 2.133 You are of the same citie with the Sainctes, and Ierusalem which is aboue, (is no straunger to vs but) the mother of vs all. Cum ipsis (Angelis) sumus vna ciuitas Dei, cuius pars in nobis, per∣egrinatur, pars in illis opitulatur. Wee, saith Austen, are one and the same citie of God with the (Angels) whereof part wandereth (on earth) in vs, part in them assisteth vs. And againe,* 2.134 The true Sion and true Ierusalem is euerlasting in heauen, which is the mother of vs all. She hath begotten vs, shee hath nurced vs, in part a stranger (on earth) in a greater part remaining in heauen.* 2.135 For the soules of the godly that be dead be not seuered from the church which euen now is the kingdome of Christ. Certaynely Christ hath but one bodie which is his church, and of that body since the Sainctes be

the greater and worthier part, they must bee counted of the same Church with vs.

Phi.

I stick not at that so much as at the next, where you make the word and Sacramentes togither with their effectes and fruites to be parts of the church.

Theo.

* 2.136I do not say they be members of the Church, but thinges required in the church, without the which we can neither become, nor continue the members of Christ. In a naturall bodie the spirits and faculties be no members, & yet with∣out them the members haue neither life, motion, sense nor action. So in the my∣sticall bodie of Christ, the members be men, but the meanes and helpes, to make vs and keepe vs the members of Christ, are the word and Sacraments, without the which we can neither be planted, quickned, nor nourished in Christ. For the members be dead if they liue not by faith, if they grow not by grace, if they cleaue not by loue to their heade, and moue at his will by obedience. And therefore these thinges though they bee not members, yet they bee ioyntes and sinewes, vaines and vessels that giue life, groeth, strength, and state to the bodie of Christ, which is his church, and may iustly bee called the principall powers or partes of his bodie.

Phi.

Powers if you will, but not partes.

Theo.

As though the powers of the soule were not partes of the soule.

Phi.

Not properly partes, but powers and faculties.

Theo.

What call you partes?

Phi.

Whereof the whole consisteth.

Theo.

And since without these there can be no Church, ergo these be partes of the church.

Phi.

You take partes very largely.

Theo.

No larger than I should. The foundation of the house, is it not a part of the house?* 2.137

Phi.

Yes a chiefe part.

Theo.

Faith is the foundation of the church, why then should not faith be a part of the church?

Phi.

The Church consisteth of persons, not of thinges. Men are the church saith S. Augustine. Againe, The church, that is, the people of God through∣out all nations.

Theo.

I doe not deny the church to bee many times taken for the faithfull on earth, but I adde that the graces, mysteries, and word of God bee contained in the Church, and without them the Persons are no Church. Our bodies and soules doe not make vs members of Christ, but our faith and obedience. By Baptisme, not by birth doe we * 2.138 Put on Christ, and grace not meates establish our heartes. They bee the sonnes of God that he led by the spirit of God. And if any man haue not the spirit of Christ, the same is no member of his.

Phi.

All this is true.

Theo.

The church then consisteth not of men, but of faithfull men; and they bee the Church not in respect of flesh and blood, which came from earth, but of trueth and grace which came from heauen.

Phi.

I graunt.

Theo.

Ergo the perfection of Gods giftes, the communion of his graces and direction of his word are the verie life and soule of his Church, & so within the compasse of the church are comprised not onely the persons that bee earthly, but also the things that be heauenly:* 2.139 whereby God gathereth, preserueth, and sanctifieth his Church.

Phi.

What doth this helpe you?

Theo.

That when wee saie with S. Am∣brose, Imperator bonus intra Ecclesiam, non supra Ecclesiam est: A good Empe∣rour

is within the Church, not aboue the Church, you can conclude no∣thing out of these words against vs.

Phi.

Can we not? If good Princes bee not aboue the church, ergo they be not aboue the prelats & pillours of the church.

Theo.

That is no consequent.

Phi.

Why not?* 2.140

Theo.

By the Church are ment sometimes the places, somtimes the per∣sons, sometime the things, that be cheefely required in the Church. Of the place S. Austen saith, We cal the Church the temple; where the people, which are trewly called the Church are conteined, that by the name of the Church, I meane, the people which is conteined; we may signifie the place which con∣teyneth. And againe, The Church is the place where the Church is assem∣bled, for men are the Church.

The Church as it is taken for persons hath a triple distinction. First the Church of glorious and elect Angels and men. Ecclesia deorsum, ecclesia sursum. Ecclesia deorsum in omnibus fidelibus, ecclesia sursum in omnibus Angelis. There is a Church beneath, there is a Church aboue. The Church beneath in all the faithfull: the Church aboue in all the Angels. And againe, The right order of confession required that (in our creed) next to the (three persons in) Tri∣nity should stand the Church; as next to the owner his howse, to God his tē∣ple, to the builder his citie: which must here be taken for the whole; not on∣ly that part which is a pilgrime on earth, but also for that part which abiding in heauen hath euer since it was created, cleauen vnto God. This part in the holy Angels persisteth in blessednes, and helpeth as it ought, her other part wandring in earth. The temple of God therfore is the holy Church, I mean, the vniuersall in heauen and earth.

Secondly the Church is the people of God through out all nations, ioy∣ning & reckning al the Saints, which before his cōming liued in this world. The * 2.141 whole Church euerie where diffused is the bodie (of Christ) and he is the head of it. Not only the faithful which are now, but also they that were before vs, and they that shall be after vs to the end of the world, they al per∣taine to his bodie. The Church is the body (of Christ) not the church which is here or there, but that which is here and euery where throughout the world: neither that Church which is at this time, but from Abel vnto those which shall hereafter bee borne and beleeue in Christ euen till the end, the whole companie of saintes belonging to one Citie, which is the bodie of Christ, and whereof he is the head.

Thirdly the Church may bee limited by time and place, as the particular Churches of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus and such like. Behold, saith Austen, in the Church there be Churches, which be members of that one Church, dis∣persed throughout the world. There be many Churches & yet one Church, and in that sort many that there is but one.

Somtimes the church importeth, besides the persons, y^• things in which those persons must communicate before they can be members of the Church; as when the church is called the kingdome, citie and howse of God: whereby wee learne

that it is furnished not onely with persons, but with all thinges needefull for the seruants, citizens and people of God, to the conuerting and sauing of their soules.* 2.142 In that sense saith S. Paul, The kingdome of God is righteousnes, peace and ioy in the holy Ghost, meaning these be fruits and effects of Gods kingdome: which our Sauiour threatned to take from the Iewes. The king∣dome of God shall bee taken from you and giuen to a nation that shall bring forth the fruites thereof;* 2.143 shewing, that when the woorde of trueth and seales of grace are taken from vs, wee cease to bee the people and Church of God. Christ raigneth in his Church by his word and spirit, without these men are not the Church. An earthly citie must haue vnitie, societie, regiment, & suf∣ficiencie for an earthly state: the number of men doeth not make a citie if these thinges want. Howe much more must the citie of God haue abundance of al thinges profiting to eternall life?* 2.144 S. Austen sayth of the house of God, which is the Church, It is founded by beleeuing, erected by hoping, perfected by louing: noting these three to bee the maine partes in the building of Gods house.

* 2.145It is playner than that longer proofe shall neede. If wee woulde define the Church wee must comprehend not onely men, but other thinges also which may seuer the Church from those that are not the Church, and those thinges that are required to the explication, are wee say contained in the appellation of the Church. The Church is not simply a number of men; for Infidels, heretikes and hypocrites are not the Church, but of men regenerate by the woord and Sacraments, truely seruing God according to the Gospell of his sonne, and sealed by the spirite of grace against the day of redemption. Men thus qualified are the Church, and the giftes and graces of GOD that so qualifie them, bee not onely the iewels and ornaments wherewith the spouse of Christ is decked, but euen the seede and milke, whereby like a mother shee conceyueth and nourceth her children.

* 2.146The church our mother, saith Austen, conceiued vs of Christ, & nourished yea nourisheth vs with the milke of faith. Shee conceiueth by the Sacra∣ments as by the seede of her husbande. Thou wast conceiued, in that thou receiuedst the name of Christ; and the Lorde to make his wisedome milke for vs, came clothed with flesh vnto vs. Shee is a most true mother which openeth her bosome to all nations when they shall bee newe borne, and offereth her teates when they are newe borne. The teeth, cheekes, and lippes of (this) spouse wee vnderstande, sayth Ambrose, to bee the vertues of the soule. Yea the Church is life, and as Paul sayth, the Pillour of trueth. These speeches and others that might bee alleaged shewe the Church to bee resembled to a woman, and trueth, sayth, life, grace and such like giftes of God•• bee counted not onely the garments, but euen the bowels and partes of the Church. And therefore the name of the Church sometimes imployeth as well the thinges that bee in the Church as the per∣sons

that bee of the Church, which was the third point that I noted.

Phi.

These speeches bee figuratiue.

Theo.

I did not seeke for the proprie∣tie, but the vse of the woord; and yet in proper speach persons without these thinges are not the Church, and in the very definition of the Church, as well thinges as persons bee comprised.

Phi.

In deede persons enduen with those giftes and graces of God, that bee needefull for eternall life; are properly the Church: but thinges without Persons are not the Church.

Theo.

I do not exclude Persons, but include those thinges which cause the Persons to bee members of the Church.

Phi.

I will not much impugne that.

Theo.

Returne then to the woordes of Ambrose, which occasioned me to make this distinction.

A good Emperour is not aboue the church.* 2.147 Not aboue the Church vniuer∣sal, for that consisteth of men & Angels, aboue whom princes be not. Neither a∣boue the Church militant in earth, for that containeth all the faithfull of all ages and Countries, ouer whom there can bee no Prince but onely Christ.

Phi.

And what? For the Church dispersed through the Romane Empire in the time of S. Ambrose, was the Prince aboue it, or no?

Theo.

You must here distinguish the thinges proposed in the Church, from the Persons that were members of the Church. The Persons both Laymen and Clerks by Gods lawe were the Princes subiects: the thinges comprised in the Church, and by God himselfe committed to the Church, because they were Gods, coulde bee subiect to the power and will of no mortall creature, Pope nor Prince.

Phi.

Say that againe.

Theo.

In shorter termes the Prince was aboue the Persons in the Church, but not aboue the thinges in the Church.

Phi.

Aboue the Persons but not aboue the thinges in the Church? What thinges meane you?

Theo.

Those thinges which God commaundeth in his Church, and requireth of his Church.

Phi.

I vnderstande you not.

Theo.

Understande you our sauiour when hee sayth,* 2.148 Giue vnto God the things which bee Gods?

Phi.

Hee meaneth as I take it, faith, deuotion, ho∣lynes,* 2.149 repentance, patience, obedience, and such like christian dueties and vertues.

Theo.

You say well: these bee thinges which Princes haue no right to clayme, nor power to rule. They belong onely to God. To these I adde the meanes, whereby God worketh these thinges in his church; to witte, the woord and Sacraments; ouer these thinges wee graunt Princes haue no power.

Phi.

S. Ambrose sayth, not ouer the Church.

Theo.

That is, not ouer the thinges which God hath setled in his church, but ouer the Persons, Prin∣ces haue power.

Phi.

What a shift of descant that is?

Theo.

Call you that a shift which I before confirmed, and you confessed to bee true?

Phi.

What did you confirme?

Theo.

That Princes haue power by Gods appointment ouer al men. I brought you Tertullian, Chrysostome,* 2.150 Iustinian, Gregorie and Ambrose himself witnessing that Princes had power

ouer al men. S. Paul auoucheth the same, Let euery soule be subiect to their power. It is no shift, it is trueth that our sauiour saith, kings of nations beare rule ouer them,* 2.151 that is, ouer their subiects. You must either take the names of Princes and Gouernours from them, or els yeeld them Countries and peo∣ple to be subiect vnder them.

Phi.

I doe so.

Theo.

Then Princes haue power ouer all men, that is ouer all Persons.

Phi.

Ouer all persons, but not ouer the Church.* 2.152

Theo.

What doe you nowe but make the same distinction your selfe, which before you refused at my handes? Ouer all persons they haue power; ouer the Church they haue not; ergo the Church is not here taken for persons. And it must needes be taken either for the persons, or things: for the persons it is not, ergo for the thinges; and so by your confession mine answere standeth good, that Princes haue power ouer the persons, but not ouer the things in the Church.

And so saith S. Ambrose, Ea quae diuina, imperatoriae potestati non esse subiecta; The thinges that be Gods be not subiect to the Emperours power, though the Emperour had power ouer all Persons, as Ambrose himselfe affirmeth.

Phi.

* 2.153Shall S. Ambrose strike the stroke in this case?

Theo.

The stroke is alreadie giuen by the sacred scriptures, by the publike Lawes, and auncient stories of the primatiue Church:* 2.154 and yet in this point wee reiect not the iudge∣ment of S. Ambrose,

Phi.

S. Ambrose is cleane against your opinion that Princes should bee gouernours in causes ecclesiastical. To the yonger Valenti∣nian the Emperour,* 2.155 thus he answereth: Vexe not thy selfe so farre, O Emperour, to thinke that thy Emperiall right perteyneth to diuine thinges, exalt not thy selfe aboue thy measure. For it is written, Giue to Cesar that which is Cesars, and to God that which belongeth vnto God. The Palace for the Emperour, but the Churches are for the Priest.* 2.156 Againe the same holy Doctor, When didst thou euer heare, most clement Prince, that Lay men haue iudged Bishoppes? Shall wee bend by flatterie so farre, that forgetting the right of our Priesthood we shoulde yeelde vp to others that which God hath commended vnto vs? And recounting the whole course of holy scriptures and all times past, who can deny but that in the cause of faith, in the cause of faith I say, Bishoppes haue iudged of Emperours and not Emperours of Bishoppes?

Theo.

Omit the circumstances and causes that moued Ambrose thus to write, which bee the wordes you take most hold of?

Phi.

These, Thy Emperiall right pertay∣neth not to diuine thinges. The Palace for the Emperour, but the Chur∣ches are for the Priest. In a cause of faith Bishoppes haue iudged of Empe∣rours, and not Emperours of Bishops.

Theo.

* 2.157You helpe the matter forward with false translating and nypping the wordes, and yet they proue nothing against vs. In steede of vt putes te in ea quae diuina sunt, imperiale aliquod ius habere; Do not think thy selfe, to haue an Em∣periall right ouer those things which bee Gods, (or ouer diuine thinges) you say cunningly, Do not thinke thy Emperiall right pertayneth to diuine thinges. For, Noli te extollere, sed esto Deo subditus, exalt not thy selfe, but bee subiect to God, you say, Exalt not thy selfe aboue thy measure, and suppresse the rest

which should declare when a Prince exalteth himselfe aboue his measure; to wit, when he is not subiect to God. The next wordes which you bring, When didst thou euer heare most, clement Prince, that Lay men haue iudged Bishops? are not found Ibidem as you quote them, that is Epistola 33 ad sororem, but Epistola 32 ad Valentinianum Imperatorem. And In causa fider, In a matter of faith, which Ambrose addeth, you leaue out in the first sentence, though you double it at y^• latter end. These scapes I will winke at and come to the words themselues.

Thinke not thy selfe to haue any Emperial right ouer diuine things. Nei∣ther do we say Princes haue, for an emperial right is to commaund, alter and abrogate what they think good; which is lawful neither for men, nor Angels in diuine matters.

Palaces are for Princes and Churches for Priests, this was truely saide, & if you know not the reason, Churches were first appointed for publike praier and preaching; which belong to the Priests and not to the Princes function. And for that cause Bishops were to teach Princes which was the right faith, Princes were not to teach the Bishops, much lesse to professe thēselues iudges of trueth, as Valentinian did, when he said, Ego debeo iudicare, I ought to bee iudge,* 2.158 whether Christ be God or no; for that was the question between the Arri∣ans and Ambrose, and that was the word which S. Ambrose stoutly but wisely refused. When we say that Princes be iudges of faith, bring S. Ambrose a∣gainst vs and spare not: but we bee farther off from that impietie to make men iudges ouer God, than you be.

Doe you not make the Prince iudge of faith?

Theo.

You know we do not.

Phi.

Produce not vs for witnesses, we know no such thing.

Theo.

Your own acts shall depose for vs if your mouthes will not. If we make Princes to bee iudges of faith, why were so many of vs consumed not long since in England with fier and fagot for disliking that which the Prince and the Pope affirmed to be faith? Why at this day doe you kill and murder elsewhere so many thou∣sands of vs for reiecting that as false religion, which the kings & princes of your side professe for true?* 2.159 If wee make Princes iudges, why do we rather loose our liues than stand to their iudgemēts? Your stakes that yet be warm, your swords that yet be bloodie, do witnes for vs and against you that in matters of faith we make neither Prince nor Pope to be iudge. God is not subiect to the iudgemēt of man, no more is his trueth.

Phi.

What power then do you giue to Princes?

Theo.

What power so euer we giue them, we giue them no power to pronounce which is trueth.

Phi.

What do you then?

Theo.

Neuer aske that you know. Haue we spent so many words, and you now to seeke what we defend? But you see S. Ambrose maketh nothing for you. And therefore you picke a quarell to the question.

Phi.

S. Ambrose would not yeeld Valentinian the Emperour so much as a Church in Millan:* 2.160 and when hee was willed to appeare before the Emperour in his consistorie or els depart the Citie, he would do neither.

Theo.

You care not, to fit your purpose, though you make S. Ambrose a sturdie rebell. You

would fayne find a president to colour your headynes against the Prince; but in Ambrose you can not, his answere to Valentinian was stout, but lawfull; con∣stant, but Christian; as the circumstances of the facts will declare.

Valentinian a yong Prince incensed by Iustina his mother and other Eunu∣ches about him, willed Ambrose to come and dispute with Auxentius the Arri∣an in his consistorie before him, and hee would bee iudge whether of their two religions were truest and which of them twaine shoulde bee Bishop of Millan, Auxentius or Ambrose, otherwise to depart whither he would. To this Am∣brose made a sober and duetifull answere in defence of himselfe and his cause, and gaue it in writing to Valentinian,* 2.161 shewing him amongst other things that he was yong in yeres, a nouice in faith not yet baptised, & rather to learne, than to iudge of bishops: that the consistorie was no fit place for a priest to dispute in, where the hearers should be Iewes on gētiles & so scoffe at Christ, & the Empe∣rour himselfe partial as appeared by his Law published before that time to im∣pugne the truth. As for departing, if he were forced, he would not resist; but with his consent he could not relinquish his church to saue his life, w^tout great sinne.

And because Auxentius & his companions vrged this, that the Emperour ought to be iudge in matters of faith, Saint Ambrose followeth and refelleth that word as repugnant not onely to the diuine Scriptures, but also to the Romane lawes. Conclusus vndique ad versutiam patrum suorum confugit, de Im∣peratore vult inuidiam commouere,* 2.162 dicens iudicare debere adolescentē, catechumenū, sacrae lectionis ignarum, & in consistorio iudicare. Auxentius driuen to his shiftes hath recourse to the craft of his forefathers, seeking to procure vs enuie by the Emperours name, and sayth the Prince ought to bee iudge, though hee bee yong, not yet baptized and ignorant of the Scriptures, and that in the Consistorie.* 2.163 And to the Emperour himselfe, Your father, a man of riper yeeres sayde; It is not for mee to bee iudge betweene Bishoppes, doeth your clemencie nowe (at these yeeres) say, I ought to bee iudge? And hee baptized in Christ, thought himselfe vnable for the weight of so great a iudgement: doeth your clemencie, that hath not yet obtayned to the Sacrament of baptisme, chalenge the iudgement of fayth, whereas yet you knowe not the mysteries of fayth? No man shoulde thinke mee stubburne, when I stand on this, which your father of famous memorie not onely pronounced in woordes, but also confirmed by his Lawes that in a cause of fayth or ecclesiasticall order hee shoulde be iudge, that was both like in function, and ruled by the same kind of right. For those be the words of the Rescript: his meaning was hee woulde haue Priests to bee iudges of Priests.* 2.164 Then follow the wordes which you cite. When euer didst thou heare most clement Emperour, in a cause of fayth that Laymen iudged of bishops? Shall wee so bend for flatterie, that we should forget the right (or duetie) of Priests; and what God hath bequeathed to me, I should commit to others? If a Bishop must be taught by a Layman what to follow, let a Lay man then dispute (or speake in the Church,) and a Bishop be an auditor, let the Bishop

learne of a Layman. But surely if we suruey the course of the diuine Scrip∣tures or auncient times, who is there, that can deny, but in a cause of faith, in a cause I say of fayth Bishops are wont to iudge of Christian Emperours, not Emperours of Bishoppes?

And where Valentinian required Ambrose to yeeld his Church,* 2.165 & depart whither hee woulde; for yeelding his Church, his answere was, Nec mihi fas est tradere, nec tibi accipere Imperator expedit. Domum priuati nullo potes iure temerare; domum dei existimas auferendam? Allegatur, imperatori licere omnia, ipsius esse vniuersa. Respondeo. It is neither lawfull for mee to yeeld it, nor expe∣dient for you, O Emperour, to take it. The house of a priuate man you can not by right inuade: doe you thinke you may take away the house of God by violence? It is alleaged, the Emperour may do what hee will, all things are his. I answere: Doe not burden your selfe O Emperour to thinke, you haue any Emperiall right ouer those thinges, which bee Gods. Exalt not your selfe (so high) but if you will raigne long, bee subiect to God. Palaces pertayne to Emperours, Churches to Priests. The Church is Gods, it ought not to be yeelded (by mee) to Cesar. The temple of God can not bee Cesars right. I can not deliuer that which I receiued to keepe (in Gods behalfe, to heretiks.) Would God it were apparant to me that my church should not be deliuered to the Arrians, I would willingly offer my self to the iudgement of your highnes. Would God it were decreed that no (Arrian) should trouble (my) Churches, and of my Person pronounce what sentence you will.

With my consent I will neuer forgoe my right, if I bee compelled I haue no way to resist. I can sorow, I can weepe, I can sigh, teares are my weapons; Priests haue (only) those defences, by other meanes I neither ought, nor can resist. Flee & forsake my church I vse not, lest any thinke it done to auoyde some sorer punishment. If my goods bee sought for, take them; if my body, I will be ready. Will you put me in Irons, or lead me to death? You shal do me a pleasure, I wil not gard my self with multitudes of people, I wil not flee to the altar to intreat for life, but wil gladly be sacrificed for the altars (of god.)

Depart Ambrose would not, thereby to saue himselfe & leaue his Church to Arians; the Emperour should banish him, or els he would not forsake his flocke. I could wish you had not sent me word to go whither I would. I came euery day abroad, I had no gard about me. You should haue appointed me, whither you would. Now the rest of the Priests say to me, there is no difference, whe∣ther thou be content to relinquish, or thy selfe yeelde vp the altar of Christ; for when thou doest forsake it thou doest deliuer it. If a strong hande re∣moue me from my Church, my flesh may bee caried thence, my minde shall not. Betray my Church I cannot, but fight I ought not. These answeres bee full of humilitie and as I thinke full of that affection (and reuerence) which a Bishoppe should beare to a prince. Wee see the groundes that Am∣brose stood on, resolued rather to suffer any death, than by his consent or de∣parture to betray the Church of Christ into the handes of Auxentius the

Arrian. His meaning was not with violence to resist, or with pride to despise the yong prince, but either to die with his flocke, or at least to bee remoued from his flocke by the princes power without his own cōsent, because it were sinne in him to resigne or leaue the house of God as a pray for heretikes, vnlesse he were thereunto compelled, and forced against his will.

Phi.

I thereby gather that Princes may not meddle with Churches with∣out the Bishoppes assent.

Theo.

You may thereby well collect that Bi∣shoppes were better to giue their lyues, than yeelde their churches for Christ to bee blasphemed in, except they bee constrained.

Phi.

The Bishoppe refused, though the Prince commanded.

Theo.

Hee refused to put his consent to the Princes will; but hee resisted not the Princes power.

Phi.

No thankes in that hee could not.

Theo.

Yes great thankes in that hee would not, when all the citizens of Millan tooke part with him, and the soul∣diers denyed to wayte on the Emperour, to any other church but onely to that where he was; and greater obedience in that hee confessed he should not. Aliter nec debeo, nec possum resistere, otherwise (than by teares and sighes) I neyther ought,* 2.166 nor can resist: and likewise hee commended the people for saying, Rega∣mus Auguste, non pugnamus; wee make request O Soueraigne, wee make no tumult. So that Ambrose in these wordes which you bring doth not general∣ly dislike that Princes should meddle with religion or make Lawes for Christ, but first affirmeth, which wee confesse, that Princes be no iudges of faith; and next auoucheth that his refusall to deliuer his Church to the handes of Arrians was no stubburnnes against the Prince, but obedience to God, whose house it was; and, that he could not consent to betray the same to Gods enemies but hee should highly displease and offend God in so doing. By this you may proue, that wee must obey God before man, and that al Pastours ought rather to giue their liues than their consents, that heretikes shoulde inuade their flockes; but a∣gainst the Princes authoritie to commaund for trueth and punish error by the wordes or deedes of Ambrose, for ought that I see, you can conclude no∣thing.

Phi.

Hee reporteth and commendeth the wordes of Valentinian the elder, the father of this yong Valentinian.* 2.167 Non est meum iudicare inter episcopos, It is not for me to iudge among Bishops.

Theo.

He gaue the yong Prince to vn∣derstand what a weightie matter it was,* 2.168 To sit iudge betweene Bishoppes in cases of fayth, and not among Bishoppes as you translate it; in that his father a man of ripe yeres, great wisedome, and good experience refused this as a bur∣den too heauie for him. And what if the question betwixt the christians and Arrians were so intricate that Valentinian durst not take vpon him to discusse or determine the same, is that any reason to proue that princes may not establish trueth and abolish falshood by their publike Lawes?

Phi.

Was that the matter wherein Valentinian refused to bee iudge be∣tweene the Bishoppes?

Theo.

Euen that, if you dare beleeue the storie of the Church. For,* 2.169 The Bishops of Hellespontus and Bithinia, sayth Sozomene, and

as many as professed the sonne of God to be of the same substance with his father, sent Hypatianus in a legacie to Valentinian the Emperour to request him that he would permit them to meete (in a Councell) to correct the Do∣ctrine (which trobled the Church.) When Hypatianus came to him, & declared the petition of the Bishops, Valentinian aswered: For me that am a Lay man I think it not lawful to search curiously such (deepe) matters: let the priests that haue charge of these things, meete where they like best among themselues.

This fearefulnes of Valentinian,* 2.170 whiles he could not so much as looke into the contention betwixt the Christians and the Arrians, did the Church no good. For though Valentinian were for his owne person well perswaded in religion, yet he suffered the Arrians to do what they would, as Sozome confesseth. Va∣lentinian being himselfe of the Nicene faith, made much of those that were of the same opinion with him, but molested not any that were of the contrarie. And that note Socrates giueth him. Valentinian honoured those that were of his faith, but in the meane time he let the Arrians do what they would. And though himself very religiously embraced the Godhead of Christ, yet would he commaund nothing to the Bishops (in that behalfe) neither thought hee good to change other ecclesiastical lawes into better or worse. For he took them to be aboue his reache, though he were (otherwise) a very good Em∣perour and fitte to rule, as appeared by his doings.

Phi.

Mislike you this in Valentinian?

Theo.

Doe you like that he suffered Arrians to haue their foorth & neither molested nor resisted them?

Phi.

We like not that.

Theo.

Then you mislike the timerousnes or remissenes, call it what you will, in the church affaires as well as we doe: for what commendation could it be for him neither to meddle nor make with ecclesiasticall matters, but to per∣mit all sortes and sects to follow their appetites?

Phi.

The stories commend him as excelling in wisedome,* 2.171 moderation and iustice.

Theo.

The best men haue their faults and are somtimes led with priuate fansies. Valentinian was a good man and worthie the Empire, and yet he made a Law that euery man that would, might haue two wiues, and him∣selfe gaue the first example in taking two.

Phi.

What he did not?

Theo.

Mea∣ning to Marrie Iustina for report of her bewtie, he made a law and published the same in euerie citie, that it should be lawful for al men to haue two wiues at once. And after the law so made he tooke Iustina to wife, by whom hee had Valentinian the yonger and three daughters, not diuorcing Seuera the mother of Gratiaen (his elder sonne) whom hee a little before had created Emperour.

Phi.

That was a fault in deede.

Theo.

And this was an other,* 2.172 that hee gaue himselfe to quietnes, and molested no sect of heretikes: vpon this opi∣nion that it passed his capasitie to iudge betweene y^e Bishops in matters of faith.

Phi.

But Ambrose doth commend it.

Theo.

Ambrose doth alleage it to stay the yong prince frō rashly presuming to iudge of their matters, before he knew the first principles of religion, because his father when he was aged, Inhabilem

se ponderi tanti putabat esse iudicij,* 2.173 thought himself vnable to iudge in so weigh∣tie a cause, but farther he doth not commend it: and yet he might commend that in Valentinian and not hurt vs. For wee doe not encourage Princes to professe themselues iudges of fayth, which Valentinian thought too great a burden, but onely wee wish them to discerne betwixt trueth and error, which euery priuate man must do that will be a Christian.

* 2.174And though Valentinian distrusted his owne iudgement in matters of faith, yet that did not fray Theodosius a Prince highly commended by Ambrose him self, from looking into the strife betweene the Homousians and Arrians and ap∣pointing by a solemne edict which of them should be counted Catholikes, which heretikes: and taking their Churches from them without their consents. For hee, not long after hee was called to the Empire by Valentinians eldest sonne, willed euery sect to put their fayth in writing. At the day prefixed the Bi∣shoppes of euery religion, being sent for, came to the Court, Nectarius and Agelius for the Homousians (or Catholikes) Demophilus ••or the Arrians, Euno∣mius himselfe for his followers, and for the Macedonians Eleusius. When they were come the Prince admitted them to his presence, and taking the Pa∣per of eche mans opinion hartily besought God to helpe him in choosing the trueth. Then reading their confessions written hee reiected al the rest, as diuiding and seuering the sacred Trinitie and tare them in peeces, and one∣ly liked and embraced the Homousian fayth; and therewithall made a Lawe, that such as followed that fayth should bee counted Christian Catholikes, the rest infamous heretikes.* 2.175 All people subiect to our Empire wee will haue continue in that religion, which S. Peter the Apostle deliuered to the Ro∣manes as the fayth kept from his tyme to this day doth declare, and the which it is euident Bishop Damasus, and Peter Bishop of Alexandria, a man of Apostolike sanctitie doe professe: to witte, that according to the Apo∣stolike and Euangelike Doctrine, wee beleeue one Godhead of the father, sonne and holy Ghost of like Maiestie in sacred Trinitie. The obser∣uers of this Lawe wee commaund to bee taken for Christian Catholikes, the rest, as mad and frantike we adiudge to beare the reproch of heretikes: which must looke to feele first the vengeance of God, & next such penalties as the motion of our heart directed from aboue shall appoint.

* 2.176As this religious Prince published by his Lawes which opinion should be counted trueth and which heresie, so did hee by the same authoritie commaund the Churches throughout his Empire to bee presently taken from the Arrians and deliuered into the handes and possession of such as were of a right fayth. So sayth Sozomene, The Emperour (Theodosius) made a Law, that the Nicene fayth shoulde bee authentike, and all Churches to bee deliuered to them which professed the same Godhead of the father, sonne and holy Ghost in three persons of equall honour and like power. The Lawe it selfe is extant. The rule of the Nicene faith receiued from our fathers and confirmed by the witnes and assertion of diuine religion, let it stand good for euer. And he

shall bee counted a follower of the Nicene fayth, and a true professor of the Catholike religion, that holdeth the vndiuided substance of the incorrupt Trinitie, which by a Greeke worde is called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 of right beleeuers. They which bee not of this faith, let them cease by cunning deuises to shroud thē selues vnder the name of true religion which they professe not, & be plaine∣ly noted by their heresies, and vtterly remoued and expelled from all Chur∣ches, that throughout the worlde the Churches may bee deliuered to the Bishops which hold the Nicene fayth.

So Gratian the sonne of Valentinian, after the Empire came entirely to his hands,* 2.177 commanded the preachers of the Arrian blasphemie, as wild and cruel beasts to be driuen from their Churches, and the same to be restored to good Pastors, & the executiō of this law he cōmitted to Sapores a most famous captaine of that time.* 2.178 The like did Theodosius the yonger decree that they which followed the wicked faith of Nestorius, or cleaued to his vnlawfull doctrin, if they were Bishops or Clerks should be cast out of their churches, if they were Laymen they should bee accursed.* 2.179 By this it is euident that the christian Emperours did and might dispose both of Bishops and Churches, & therfore Ambrose could not be of that mind that princes by their lawes might not put Bishops from their Churches without their consents: but hee brought this as a reason, why the Prince at his pleasure without lawe might not com∣maund, and himselfe, though the Prince commanded, might not consent.

Phi.

You shift off S. Ambrose, but Athanasius, Osius, Leontius and Hi∣larius wil not be so shifted. Of Constantius the Arrian Emperour, S. Athana∣sius saith, What hath he left for Antichrist? for yet againe in place of Ecclesiasticall cognition hee hath appointed his palace the iudiciall seate of such causes, & made him selfe the chiefe iudge & arbiter of our controuersies. And who seeing him to make him selfe the ruler of Bishops, and president of spiritual iudgements, would not iustly deeme him to bee that very abomination of desolation foretold by Daniel? And in an other place of the same work: When was it euer heard since the beginning, that the Chur∣ches iudgement did depend of the Emperours authoritie? Or who euer accepted that for lawfull iudgement? The renoumed Osius writeth to the same Emperour:* 2.180 Medle not O Emperour in causes ecclesiasticall, nor do thou cōmand vs in this kinde, but leaue such thinges to vs rather: God hath giuen thee the Empire, but to vs the church. At the same time, & to the same Emperour, thus saith Leontius the Mar∣tyr: I maruel that thy vocation being for other things, thou medlest with these mat∣ters. Thy charge is of ciuil & Martiall affaires only, and yet thou wilt needes be pre∣sident of ccclesiastical causes. S. Hilarie also to the same Emperour writeth thus, We beseech thy clemencie to prouide▪ that charge to be giuen to all iudges of Prouin∣ces, that hereafter they presume not, nor vsurpe the hearing of Ecclesiasticall causes.

Theo.

You do well to put them together;* 2.181 they all spake of one man & ment one matter: reprouing Constantius the Arian Emperour and that worthily for his tyrannous and violent oppressing the Church of Christ against al trueth and reason.

Phi.

You would faine giue these fathers the slip, as though Constantius

were reproued by them not for intermedling with causes ecclesiasticall; but for his iniurious and outragious ouerruling those matters; what a mockerie that were?

Theo.

Mocke not your selues, and of our answere let the world iudge.

Phi.

What is it?

Theo.

We say these fathers did not reproue that in Con∣stantius, which the whole Church of Christ before them and after them for eight hundered yeres and vpward obeyed, embraced and honoured in her Christian & Catholike princes, namely Constantine, Gratian, Theodosius, Honorius, Mar∣tian, Iustinian, Charles, Lodouike, Lotharius, and others.

Phi.

Who saith they did?

Theo.

Doe you graunt they did not?

Phi.

What if we doe?

Theo.

Speake expresly whether you graunt it or no.

Phi.

We graunt they did not.

Theo.

Ergo these places of Athanasius, Osius, Leontius, and Hilarius, doe not impugne that which we defend, but only traduce Constantius for his wilful and headie subuerting the faith, and infringing the Canons, without all regard of trueth or equitie. They refute not his authority to commaund for trueth and punish error, which other Princes had and vsed with the contentation and com∣mendation of all good men, but they dissuade him from the tyranny which hee shewed in confounding both the doctrine and discipline of the church to serue his humor and wrecke his anger on those that would not yeeld to his heresie.

Phi.

You may not scape so, we must haue a direct answer to the words which we bring.

Theo.

I neede not answere them, till you vrge them.

Phi.

As for vrging, that shall not want.

Theo.

If I faile in answering, take you the ad∣uantage.

Phi.

Be sure, I will. First then Constantius was reproued by S. Athanasius for appointing his Palace to bee the tribunal seat of ecclesiastical causes, and making himselfe the chiefe iudge and arbiter of those controuersies.* 2.182

Theo.

We do not make Princes chiefe iudges and arbiters of ecclesiasticall controuersies, Ergo these wordes of Athanasius disproue not our assertion.

Phi.

Do you not make them Rulers of Bishops and presidents of spiritual iudgements, which is that very abhomination of desolation foretold by Daniel?

Theo.

Doe not you purposely clippe the text, to drawe the words from their right meaning to your malicious intent, which is a ready way to deface the trueth and vphould the kingdome of Antichrist?* 2.183 For where the words are, Quis videns eum in decernēdo Principē se fa∣cere Episcoporū, & praesidere iudicijs ecclesiasticis, non merito dicat, &c. who seeing him to make himselfe the ruler of Bishops, and the ringleader of ecclesiasti∣cal iudgements (in decernendo) what they shall determine, may not iustly pro∣nounce him to be that abomination of desolation which Daniel foretold;* 2.184 you strike out cleane, in decernendo, In iudgeing or determining, and would haue it a note of Antichrist to be a ruler of Bishops. Againe, where The vnder∣standing of that which spoken must bee fet from the causes that moued (mē) to speake as Hilarie wel admonisheth, you let passe al that Athanasius hath said in that long epistle for the confirmation of this sentence and explication of him∣selfe, and ••••ll out a word or two that may bee diuersly taken, and thinke with a phrase of speach both doubtfull and generall to surprise a settled and certaine trueth.

Princes should not be rulers of Bishops: if by this you meane that Princes shoulde not bee superiour magistrates to commaunde Bishops that which is good and forbid them that which is euill,* 2.185 yea to punish them as well for eccle∣siasticall as cyuill disorders, Athanasius was neuer of that mynde; his owne wordes expounding S. Pauls Epistle to the Romanes (if those be his woorkes that carie his name) are cleare to the contrarie.* 2.186 Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers.] He teacheth al men, sayth Athanasius, whether it bee Priest, Monke or Apostle, to submit themselues to princes (or rulers.) And speaking of himselfe when hee was commaunded to conferre with Arius, not the first and famous heretike, but an other of that name and tyme concerning matters of fayth,* 2.187 Who, sayth he, is so besides his wittes that hee dare refuse the Princes precept? His deedes are as manifest; for when the Councel of Ty∣rus would haue proceeded against him for his crimes and causes ecclesiastical, the Cotholike Bishoppes of Egypt that tooke part with him made their ap∣peale to the Prince, as I shewed you before,* 2.188 and Athanasius in person fled to Constantine and desired the Synode to bee sent for, and his cause to bee hearde before the Emperour. What Athanasius liked in himselfe, he might not mislike in others; what hee thought to bee lawfull in the father, hee could not thinke vnlawfull in the sonne; hee doeth not now refell that in woordes, which hee before approued in deedes: you must so conster his sayings as they may stand with his doings, or els you make a madde construction. But if you meane that Princes should not rule Bishops in ecclesiastical causes & iudgements, that is, not worke them, nor force them against the witnes of their heartes and con∣sciences to follow the willes and appetites of Princes as Constantius did by the report of Athanasius in this place: then the wordes which you bring be ve∣ry true, but nothing pertinent to this question.

The ruling then of Bishoppes and sitting as president of ecclesiasticall iudgements which Constantius vsed and Athanasius reproued was nothing elss but a wilfull contempt in himselfe of the faith and Canons of the Church,* 2.189 and a furious compulsion of others to make them determine what hee listed, and condemne whom him pleased without respect of trueth, and against all or∣der of common iustice.

Phi.

This is your gloze, which wee doe not beleeue.

Theo.

Your owne witnesses say the same, whom you may not well discredite.

Phi.

Which of them?

Theo.

Athanasius and Hilarie.

Phi.

Where say they so?

Theo.

Not farre from the places which your selfe alleage. The whole E∣pistle of Athanasius which you quote, is a large repetition of y^• tirannous words and deedes of Constantius touching causes ecclesiasticall. The first booke of Hilarie against Constantius (the first I meane, as they nowe stande in order, though the last in time as they were written) doeth handle the same argument. Reade either of them, you can not choose amisse.

Let passe the horrible persecution raysed by Constantius, wherein the Pa∣gans were set to inuade the Churches of Christians and to beate the people with staues and stones:* 2.190 the Bishops, Priests and Monkes were bound with

chaynes and scourged with roddes; the women were haled by the hayre to the iudgement seate;* 2.191 the virgins were tosted by the fire, and whipped with Prickles, others were banished, strangled, trampled to death vnder feete, and their limmes and ioyntes euen torne and rent asunder after they were dead, in so much that Athanasius is fayne to crie out, who was not amazed at these things? who would giue them the name of Ethnicks, much lesse of chri∣stians? who will thinke them to haue the conditions of men and not rather of beastes? who perceiued not the Arrians to bee crueller than beasts? The straungers standing by, yea the Ethnicks detested the Arians as Antichristes, and butchers of men. O new found heresie, which in villanies and impieties hast put on the fulnes of the Diuell, howe great so euer hee bee: let passe I say these thinges, and come to his behauiour in matters and causes eccle∣siasticall.

* 2.192Paulinus, Lucifer and other Bishoppes being called before him, the Empe∣rour commaunded them to subscribe against Athanasius and to communi∣cate with the Arrians: they marueiling at this strange endeuor & answering that the ecclesiastical Canons would not suffer them so to doe, hee straight∣way replied:* 2.193 AT QVOD EGO VOLO, PRO CANONE SIT: ita me loquentem Sy∣riae episcopi sustinent, aut ergo obtēperate, aut vos quoque exules esrote. LET MY WIL BE TAKEN OF YOV FOR A CANON: the Bishoppes of Syria content them∣selues with this speach of mine. Therefore doe as I will you, or depart into banishment. And when the Bishoppes held vp their hands to God and with great libertie proposed their reasons, shewing him that the kingdome was not his, but Gods, of whom he receiued it; and that it was to bee feared, lest hee that gaue it would speedyly take it from him: also setting before him the day of iudgement, and aduising him not to subuert ecclesiasticall order, nor to mingle the Romane Empire with the constitutions of the Church, nor to bring the Arrian heresie into the Church of God: he woulde neither heare them, nor permit them to speake: but greeuously bending his browes for that they had spoken, and shaking his sword, willed (them) to be caried away. This was Constantius manner in conuenting Bishoppes, and thus hee peruerted the fayth and good order of Christes Church vppon a selfe wil, subiecting all Lawes both diuine and humane to his eger and erroneous fan∣sie. And who seeing him (thus) to make himselfe the ruler of Bishoppes, & president of ecclesiasticall iudgements, would not iustly deeme him to bee that desolation of abomination foretold by Daniel?

Phi.

You put (thus) to the text which Athanasius hath not.

Theo.

But the right meaning of Athanasius woordes must bee gathered hy that which goeth before and followeth after.* 2.194 Intelligentia dictorum, sayth Hilarie, ex praece∣dentibus & consequentibus expectetur: The vnderstanding of any speach must bee taken from the precedents and consequents. The conclusion is not pro∣ued but by the premisses, and therefore must bee measured by the premisses. Athanasius bringeth many particulars to shewe in what sort Constantius

ouer-ruled the Bishoppes and preferred his owne will before all constituti∣ons and Canons of the Church, and then inferreth, Who seeing him to make himselfe the ruler of Bishoppes and president of ecclesiasticall iudgements (in that ••ort as hee doeth) would not pronounce him to be Antichrist? Now in what sort he did it, the whole Epistle besides doeth declare; thither must you repaire if you will see howe Constantius behaued himselfe in ecclesi∣asticall causes, and consequently what thinges Athanasius and the rest misli∣ked in him.

Phi.

Howe did Constantius behaue himselfe, say you?

Theo.

That is worth the searching. By that you shal see what cause Athanasius, Osius, Leon∣tius and Hilarius had to reproue him.

Phi.

Say no more than you iustly proue.

Theo.

No more shall bee sayde than your owne witnesses report. I hope you will take them for direct and true deponents.

Phi.

I doe not mistrust them.

Theo.

Then heare them. There were fiue principall points wherein Constantius dealt very intemperately & wickedly as the writings of Athanasi∣us and Hilarie doe testifie.* 2.195 The often altering of the fayth, the wresting from Synodes what hee would, the banishing of Bishoppes vpon false accusations, the intruding of others in their places against all order, and the forcing of all sorts to communicate with the Arrians.

Of his altering the fayth Hilarie thus complayneth:* 2.196 Fayth is come nowe to depend rather on the tyme than on the Gospel. Our state is dangerous & miserable that we haue nowe as many fayths as wils, and as many doctrines as manners, whiles faiths are either so written as we list, or so vnderstood as we will. We make euery yere and euery moneth a faith,* 2.197 and still wee seeke a fayth as if there were no faith. This O Constantius would I fayne knowe of thee, what fayth at length thou beleeuest. Thou hast changed so often that now I knowe not thy fayth. That is hapned vnto thee which is wont to fol∣low vnskilfull buylders, euer disliking their own doings, that thou stil pullest downe that which thou art stil setting vp. Thou subuertest the olde with newe, and the newe thou rentest in sunder with a newer correction; and that which was once corrected thou condemnest with a second correcti∣on. O thou wicked one, what a mockerie doest thou make of the Church?* 2.198 Onely dogges returne to their vomit, and thou compellest the Priestes of Christ to sup vp those thinges which they had spitte foorth, and doest thou commaund them in their confessions to allow that which before they con∣demned? What Bishops hand hast thou left innocent? whose tongue hast thou not forced to falsehood? whose heart hast thou not brought to the con∣demning of his former opinion? Substrauisti voluntati tuae sed & violentiae. Thou hast subiected (all) to thy will, nay to thy violence.

His violent oppressing of Bishops in their Synodes & wresting from them what he would, is witnessed by thē both.* 2.199 Synodos contrahis, conclusos vrbe vna mi∣nis terres, fame debilitas, hyeme con••icis, dissimulatione deprauas: Thou gatherest Synods, saith Hilarie to him, & when they be closed in one citie, thou terrifiest

them with threates, thou pynest them with hunger, thou lamest them with cold,* 2.200 thou deprauest them with dissembling. He pretendeth, saith Athanasi∣us, a iudgement (or Synode) of Bishops for a shewe, but in the meane tyme hee doeth whatsoeuer hee list himselfe. What libertie of perswasion, what place for aduise is there, when hee that contradicteth, shall for his labour loose his life or his Countrie? By that meanes hath the Emperour ga∣thered so great a number of Bishoppes partly terrified with threates, partly enticed with promises to graunt they woulde no longer commu∣nicate with Athanasius.

The order of such tyrannicall Synodes, the Bishoppes of Aegypt, Libia, Pentapolis, and Thebais doe liuely report in defence of Athanasius, whereby wee shall see howe farre they bee from the moderation and regiment of Godly Princes. With what face dare they call this conuent a Synode, where the Lieutenant was president?* 2.201 where the tormentour stoode ready? where the Iaylour in steede of the Deacons of the Church, brought in those that were called for? where the Lieutenant spake, the rest that were present kept silence, or rather yeelded their seruice to him? where that which the Bishoppes by common consent liked, was reiected by the Lieutenant? Hee sate and commaunded, wee were led by souldiers, yea the Lieute∣nant him selfe did whatsoeuer the Eusebians (our aduersaries) bid him. To bee short, what shewe of a Synode was there, where death or banishment, if Cesar sayd the word, was decreed?

This violence Liberius toucheth in his answere to Constantius messenger. If the Emperour seeke in deede to interpose his care for the peace of the Church,* 2.202 or if he commaund those thinges which wee haue decreed for Athanasius to be reuersed, let those things also that are decreed against him be reuersed, and after let an ecclesiasticall Synod be called farre from the Palace, where the Emperour is not presēt, nor the Lieutenant intermedleth, nor the iudge threatneth (as Constantius doth in his Synodes) but only the feare of God and institution of the Apostles suffice for all things. And this dissimulation the Bishops were brought to by the Emperours meanes, as your own author confesseth,* 2.203 that Constantines sitting presidēt among the Bishops and prescribing rules for (their) churches, the most part of thē receiued with applause & admiratiō whatsoeuer he said, affirming it to be diuinely spokē.

What maruaile then if Athanasius reproued Constantius for sitting among the bishops in their Synods, as president of (their) iudgements & ringleader or ruler of the bishops in their determinations, when as hee oppressed the free∣dome of their voyces with terror, corrupted the secrets of their harts with pro∣mises, & hindered the vprightnes of their proceedings with his presence? Or if Leontius brake out into these words:* 2.204 I woonder that hauing charge of other things thou enterest into these matters, and that being gouernour of the campe and common welth thou prescribest those things to Bishops which pertaine only to Bishops.

Touching accusations of Bishops his tyrannie was greater.* 2.205 He made his Palace the Consistorie for such causes and himselfe iudge of them, where if any Arrian accused an other Bishop, were the complaint neuer so false, the proofe neuer so slender, the man neuer so giltlesse, the partie accused should not cleare himselfe, no not so much as speake for himself, but was sure, though he were ab∣sent and innocent, to die the death or suffer banishment.

Phi.

You imagine this of your own head to make Constantius seeme a very tyrant.

Theo.

The words which you brought do fully proue so much, but that you cut them off from the rest, to make them sound for your purpose. Put the wordes that follow to thē, and see whether they do not import that which I saide.* 2.206 Now againe in steed of Ecclesiasticall cognition, (that is, the triall of Bishops by their Synodes when they are accused) he hath appointed his palace the iudgement seate of those causes, and himselfe the chiefe iudge and arbitrer of those conten∣tions (or accusations:) and that which you would wonder at, if at anie time hee perceiue the accusers to stagger or faile in their proofes,* 2.207 hee him∣selfe plaieth the accuser, so as the partie conuented is suffered to replie no∣thing by reason of his violence. Which he plainly shewed in Athanasius cause. For in that matter hearing the free speach of Paulinus, Lucifer, Eu∣sebius and Dionysius (all foure Bishops) prouing by the recantation of Vrsa∣cius and Valens that the crimes obiected to Athanasius were false, and the sayings of Vrsacius and Valens, which they themselues had reuoked, ought not to be credited, Constantius straightway rising vp said, I am Athanasius accuser, on my word beleeue those thinges (that are obiected to him.) Here the Bishops answering againe, howe can you accuse (Athanasius) in his absence? Graunt you would accuse him, the absence of the partie accu∣sed is a let that you can not proceed to iudgement. The iudgement is not of any common-wealth matter, that you should bee beleeued as Emperour; but a Bishop is accused, and in this case he that wil accuse and hee that is ac∣cused must be delt withall in like condition. How can you accuse him that could not be present for the distance of place? If you haue those thinges which you obiect, by hearesay, reason is you also beleeue that which Atha∣nasius shall bring in defence of himselfe. For if you beleeue these (his ac∣cusers) and beleeue not him, it may be thought they say these thinges and accuse Athanasius to content and please you. This when the Emperour heard, expounding their honest allegations for his reproches, he banished them: and waxing the sharper against Athanasius, gaue foorth a terrible e∣dict that he should be punished, and his churches deliuered to the Arrians, and his aduersaries haue leaue to do what they would.

Hereby the Arians waxed so confident that they spared no man. Whom haue they not touched, saith Athanasius, with their false accusations?* 2.208 Whom haue they not intrapped? Whom hath not Constantius banished that was accused by them? When did he not giue them both audience and allow∣ance? Whom euer did he admit to saie any thing against them? Or what

did he not admit which they said against others? Hee euer doth that which the Arrians woulde haue, and they againe saie that which hee liketh.

And whereas the Bishops in those dayes were wont to be lawfully chosen by the people of the place, and sufficiently examined and allowed by other Bi∣shops adioyning and openly created in the church; Constantius in steede of the church would haue his palace succeed, and for the multitude of people, and right of assemblies (to elect) hee commaunded three Eunuches to bee present,* 2.209 and three of his spies (or prolers) for you can not call them Bi∣shops, that they (sixe) in his palace might create one Felix a Bishop. And noting what manner of Bishops the Emperour and his Eunuches made, hee saith, In illorum locum iuuenes, libidinosos, Ethnicos, ne catechismo quidem im∣butos, necnon & digamos & de maximis criminibus malè audientes modò aurum darent,* 2.210 veluti emptores è foro ad Episcopatus summisere: They sent in their places (that were banished) yong men, leacherous persons, Ethnickes, not so much as taught the first principles of faith, hauing two wifes, and spotted with enormous crimes, so they would giue mony, as cheepe-men out of a market.

The furious violence that was vsed in the time of Constantius to driue men to participate with Arrians, not onely by imprisonmentes and banishmentes, but by chaining,* 2.211 whipping, scalding with fire, trampling vnder feete, sto∣ning, choking, and secret murdering such as refused, without all respect of vocation, age or sexe, was so lamentable, that no christian hart can read it without teares, and it is so largely described and pithily disproued by Hilarie and Athanasius, that no man except he be blinder than a bitle, can doubt whe∣ther Constantius were a wilfull tyrant in the church of God, or no. Per∣use the places and you shall find proofes enough of that which I say.

I proclaime, saith Hilarie, that to thee, Constantius, which I woulde to Nero, Decius, and Maximinian; thou fightest against God, thou ragest against the Church,* 2.212 thou doest persecute the Sainctes, thou ha∣test the Preachers of Christ, and ouerthrowest Religion, a tyrant not in humane, but in diuine thinges; a newe kinde of enemie to Christ, the forerunner of Antichrist. I repeate nothing rather than thy doings in the Church, because I would open no other tyrannie, but that (which thou vsest) against God.

* 2.213And Athanasius shewing the reasons why hee calleth Constantius Anti∣christ; Who seeing or hearing, saith he, these thinges, who considering the rage of these wicked ones and so great iniustice, would not deepelie sigh at it? Who hereafter will dare to call Constantius a Christian and not rather the image of Antichrist? For which of Antichristes markes doth hee lacke? Or what cause is there why Constantius should not in euerie res∣pect bee counted Antichrist? Haue not the Arrians and Ethnickes as it were by his precept, vsed their sacrifices and blasphemies against Christ in the great church at Caesarium (in Aegypt?) As a Giant he ex∣alteth

himselfe against the most high and hath inuented waies to change the•• Lawe (of God) breaking the ordinances of Christ and his Apo∣stles, and inuerting the customes of the church. And since he is cloa∣thed with Christianitie and entereth into holy places, there standing and wasting the churches, Abrogating the Canons, and by force compel∣ling that his pleasure may preuaile, who at any time will affirme that these dayes are peaceable to christians? and not rather, that this is a persecution, and such a persecution as was neuer before, and no man after shall make the like, except that sonne of perdition, (which is the true Antichrist?)

Howe thinke you, did not these Fathers reproue Constantius for change∣ing the faith, oppressing Synods, corrupting iudgementes, infringing the Canons, barbarons enforcing the christians, and shortly, for subiecting all to his will and violence?

Phi.

I knowe they make mention of these things,* 2.214 but yet they reproue him generally for intermedling with Ecclesia∣sticall causes.

Theo.

I hope they reproued him for that he did.

Phi.

The case is cleare, they coulde not reproue him for that hee did not.

Theo.

These things which I last rehearsed, Constantius did; as I proue by their wit∣nesse that chiefly rebuked him; ergo Constantius was reproued of Athana∣sius, Osius, Leontius, and Hilarius for these thinges, that is for playing the tyrant in diuine matters, or as you call them in causes Ecclesiasticall.

Phi.

But Osius saith, Medle not O Emperour in causes Ecclesiastical, nor do thou commaund vs in that kind,* 2.215 but leaue such things to vs rather.

Theo.

You were answered before, but that you wil neuer be satisfied. Osius dissuadeth Constantius from vsing his absolute power & obstinate wil in those things that were then in question betwixt the Christians & Arians. He saw the manifolde and excessiue disorders of Constantius in forcing Synodes of Bishops by ter∣ror and violence to bow at his becke, in making his palace a consistorie for their causes, and there iudging what his Eunuches would, in dissoluing the ordinances of Christ and his Apostles, and doing all thinges against the Rules of the church,* 2.216 and therefore had good cause to saie: Ne te misceas ecclesiasticis neque nobis in hoc genere praecipe, sed potius ea a nobis disce: Enter∣pose not thy selfe (as thou doest) O Emperour in Ecclesiasticall matters, neither commaund vs in this kinde, but learne such things rather of vs, and not as you say (leaue such things rather to vs.) God hath cōmitted the Em∣pire to thee, to vs the things of the church: & as he that enuieth thine Em∣pire contradicteth the ordinance of God, so take thou heede, least draw∣ing vnto thy selfe the things of the church thou be guilty of great sinne.* 2.217 It is written, Giue vnto Caesar that which is Caesars, & vnto God that which is Gods. It is therefore neither lawfull for vs to holde a kingdome on earth, neither hast thou power, O Prince, ouer sacrifices & sacred things. These words put a difference between the function of Priestes & Princes, & shew that neither may intrude with ech others charge, which we confesse with a good wil.

But as Priestes must teach truth and conuict error, that is their office, so prin∣ces must commaund for truth, and punish error, because publike authoritie to commaund and punish is not the Priestes, but the Princes right, where-with Priestes must not meddle.

Phi.

Yet the Prince must learne at the Priestes hande, which is truth and which error.

Theo.

If the Priest teach truth and the Prince reiect it, the Prince shal answere to God for the cōtempt of truth: but if the priest teach error in steed of truth, a godly prince hath lawful power to banish the doctrine, & pu∣nish the teacher.

Phi.

And if the Prince saie that truth is error & error is truth, shall truth be banished and the Priest punished vpon the Princes saying?

Theo.

And what if the Priest saie that light is darkenesse and darkenesse light,* 2.218 shall Princes be excused before God for displacing the truth and maintaining false∣hood vpon the Priestes warrant?

Phi.

Let Princes ioyne themselues to the Church, & they can not mistake.

Theo.

Shal they trust euery sect that clai∣meth to be the church, or must they learn to know the true church of Christ from the counterfait?

Phi.

The Church is soone knowen.

Theo.

Not so soone as you thinke. But we slip from our matter; How Princes must be directed to light on truth is an other, and the next question: we be now discussing their au∣thoritie to commaund for truth, not their abilitie to discerne the truth; and as far as I coniecture by your speaches, you be loth to graunt that Princes may defende or assist the truth, were it neuer so well knowen, to bee the vndoubted truth of Christes church.

Phi.

Yes we graunt they should defend the faith & assist the church, but we would haue them not go beyonde their calling.

Theo.

No more woulde wee: but the wordes of Osius as you presse them infer that Princes may not so much as meddle with defending the faith, or assisting the church of Christ, by their Princely power, which euerteth as well your opiniō, as ours.

If you will haue these wordes, Meddle not in causes Ecclesiasticall, to be taken as they lie without restriction,* 2.219 ergo Princes must not meddle neither in word nor deede with the defending nor impugning the faith or church of Christ. And this, you see, were no sober perswasion but a franticke conclusion wrested out of Osius wordes against his meaning, against all truth and your owne con∣fession. Who in his right wittes will saie to kings, take you no care who de∣fendeth or impugneth the church (of Christ) in your realmes;* 2.220 let it not pertaine to you who list to bee religious or sacriligious in your kingdoms? The actes of Constantine, the Lawes of Iustinian, the chapters of Charles, the stories of the church, the Scriptures themselues, do clearly conuince that the best and most famous Princes haue medled in Ecclesiasticall matters: the office and oth of a Prince, as anon you shall heare, require the same: your own assertion is that Princes ought to defend the faith and assist the church, and that they can not doe without medling in Ecclesiasticall matters. Now choose whe∣ther you will thwart the whole church of God and disproue your own doctrine, or else limit the wordes of Osius as we do by the particulars that moued him to

reproue Constantius for his immoderate presumption.

The generall is absurd and refuteth your intention as well as ours;* 2.221 for you would haue Princes medle with the publishing, assisting and executing of your pleasures and iudgementes, and wee would haue them yeelde that seruice to Christ and his truth, which you chalenge to your selues: the limitation, let it be what it will agreeable to the circumstances, can not hurt vs. Medle not in causes Ecclesiasticall (in such sort as thou doest) which rebuketh his ty∣rannie; medle not, neither appoint vs what wee shall doe, that is, medle not (with appointing and directing vs) in these thinges, but learne them rather of vs, which represseth his insolencie: Ne te misceas ecclesiasticis, thrust not thy selfe into those thinges (which belong to the Priestes and not to the Princes charge) which is Osius owne distinction: or else: ne te misceas, interpose not thy self, that is, (thy resolute will and power to commaund & compell vs) to subscribe against Athanasius an innocent, and to communi∣cate with Arians condemned heretikes, which were the two points that Con∣stantius exacted of Osius. All these constructions import that Constantius medled in that sort, and with those thinges, that he should not; but they doe not exclude Princes from establishing the truth & punishing sacrileges, schisms and heresies, which is medling with matters ecclesiasticall.

Phi.

Leontius is as earnest against him as Osius. I maruell, saith hee to Constantius, thy vocation being for other thinges, thou medlest with these matters. Thy charge is of ciuill and martiall affaires onely, and yet thou wilt needes be president of Ecclesiasticall causes.

Theo.

I maruell that professing to seeke a truth, you be not ashamed to temper and alter your witnesses in this sort. You cut off the first part that would expound the whole, and the latter you wilfully corrupt to force it to your purpose. The place of Suidas is this. Constantius at a time sitting chiefe among the Bishops, and going about to set them orders for their churches,* 2.222 the most part recei∣ued with applause and admiration whatsoeuer he saide, affirming it to bee most excellently spoken. Leontius helde his peace: whom when the Em∣perour asked,* 2.223 why doest thou onely of all the rest keepe silence? I maruel, saith Leontius, that hauing charge for other thinges thou entrest into these matters, and that being appointed ouer the campe and common-wealth thou prescribeth to the Bishops those thinges which belong onely to Bi∣shops. In steede of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, you say, (Thy charge is of ciuill and martiall affaires onely) that word onely is your owne and not your Authors, and so be the rest that follow. Thou wilt needes be president of Ecclesiastical causes: Leontius saide: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; Thou prescribest vnto Bishops those thinges which belong onely to Bishops. This is no good dealing with Fathers, to forge them and frame them to your fansies.

Leontius had some reason to say as he did, Constantius was sitting chiefe among the Bishops & prescribing them rules and orders for their churches,* 2.224

in thinges that were both beyond his cunning and besides his calling. What things those were the story doth not expresse, but saith, such things as belonged onely to Bishops. Now why should not Leontius thinke that Princes in some thinges had no skill to direct Bishops, neither might prescribe what rules and orders they listed, for the churches of God? And yet your author is not ancient that reporteth this. Suidas liued twelue hundred yeares after Christ, a man learned,* 2.225 but of very late time and far from the credit of antiquitie. Leon∣tius himselfe, if all be true that Suidas writeth of him, had no more discretion than needed. For when the Empresse sent to speake with him, he returned this answere: If thou wilt haue me come to thee, let mee haue the reuerence due to Bishoppes,* 2.226 that when I come in, thou by and by descend from thy throne and reuerently meete me, and submit thy head vnder my handes to receiue (my) blessing,* 2.227 and then will I sit, and thou shalt stand manerly by, and not offer to sit till I bid thee. If these couenantes please thee, I wil come. A high point of diuinitie that a subiect will not come to his Prince but on these saue••ie conditions. Such fables you seeke to further your cause, and yet all wil not helpe.

Phi.

I trust you wil make more account of Hilarie, whose words are these, We beseech thy clemencie to prouide that charge be giuen to al iudges of pro∣uinces, that hereafter they presume not, nor vsurp the hearing of Ecclesiasti∣cal causes.* 2.228

Theo.

Proofes go very low with you when you fal from Princes to inferiour iudges, & yet mistake your text. For Hilarie beseecheth nothing of Cōstantius in that place, but that the iudges of euerie Prouince should forbear medling in matters of religiō (with tortures & violēce.) The whole book, the words before the next part of the same sentence ioyned to this which you bring with a coniunction copulatiue confirme that to bee the true meaning of Hilarie. This is the right order of the place:* 2.229 We beseech not only with words but also with teares, that the catholike churches be no longer oppressed with gree∣uous iniuries & sustain intolerable persecutions & cōtumelies, & that which is shameful, euē of our brethren. Let your clemency prouide & appoint that all iudges euery where, to whom prouinces are committed, which ought to take care & charge of commonwealth matters onely, refrain from medling with religion. Neither let them presume & vsurp & think they may enter in∣to clergymens causes & force & vexe innocent men with diuerse afflictions, threats, violence & terrours. Your singular & admirable wisedome per∣ceiueth it is not seemely, it ought not to be, that men should be forced & cō∣pelled against their wils & harts to yeeld & addict themselues through vio∣lent oppressiō to such as cease not to sow the corrupt seeds of false doctrine.* 2.230

This was the medling with clergie mens causes that Hilarie ment, and which he would haue temporall iudges restrained from: and yet were his mea∣ning neuer so generall, he required nothing but that which Constantine the father of Constantius had by his publike lawes ordained, & al christian Princes haue since obserued, to wit, that Ecclesiasticall persons should be conuented be∣fore

ecclesiasticall iudges.* 2.231 For so Constantine decreed, Cōmitting iudgemēt & iurisdiction ouer clearks to Bishops; & Valentinian the elder would haue priests to iudge of priests: Yea Iustinian excludeth all secular iudges from hea∣ring the causes of clergie men, except it were for ciuill offences. If the crime be ecclesiasticall, needing ecclesiasticall reformation & punishment, let the Bi∣shop determine the same, the iudges of the Prouince no way intermedling, for we wil not haue temporall iudges enter into such matters where as such faults must be examined ecclesiastically by the sacred and diuine rules (and Canons) which our lawes take no scorne to follow.

And though he bar ciuill iudges from the hearing of such causes,* 2.232 yet doth not exempt clergie men, Bishops nor others from the obedience of his ecclesiastical lawes, as the wordes import that bee next to these; Omnibus quae iam a nobis sancita sunt, siue super sanctiss. ecclesus, siue super Deo amabilibus Episcopis siue su∣per clericis, siue super monachis propriam virtutem habentibus: All thinges which we haue already decreed concerning the most holie churches, and blessed Bishops, and touching clerkes and monks standing in their ful force. Hee quiteth clergie men from temporall barres, but he bindeth both them and their iudges to the tenor of his ecclesiasticall lawes as well in their Synods as in their Consistories, as appeareth at large by his 123. constitution; so that this place of Hilarie might well haue been spared saue onely to make vp your tale.

Phi.

Is this your opinion that Princes themselues may lawfully medle with Ecclesiasticall causes and persons though their inferiour iudges may not?

Theo.

We say princes exempted clergie men from secular iudges but not from themselues: And that Princes from the beginning haue medled with persons & causes Ecclesiasticall,* 2.233 wee bring you, not onely fiue authorities that shall bee neither maimed nor wrested as yours bee, but fiue hundred actes, examples, lawes and edictes that shall bee strong and effectuall proofes for this purpose.

Phi.

You talke of cost, when you saie fiue hundered.

Theo.

Wee coulde far passe that number if the number would moue you to leaue follie, but I will go an other waie to worke with you. What good king can you name before or after Christ for 1000. yeares, but such as medled with Ecclesiasticall mat∣ters?

Phi.

Nay, what good king can you name that did?

Theo.

They be sooner named than answered.

Nabuchodonosor in making a law that euery people,* 2.234 nation & language, which spake any blasphemie against the God of Sidrac, Misac and Ab••dnago should bee drawen in peeces & their houses made priuies, did hee not medle with matters of Religion?

Phi.

Nabuchodonosor was a tyrant?

The.

But be∣ing corrected by the diuine miracle,* 2.235 he made, saith Augustine, a religious and commendable law for the truth, that who so blasphemed the God of Si∣drac, Misac, and Abednago should with his house perish vtterly.

Darius vpon the sight of an other miracle wrote to all people, nations and languages that dwelt in the world with these words:* 2.236 I make a decree, that in

all the dominion of my kingdome men tremble and feare before the God of Daniell.

The king of Niniueth, hearing of that which Ionas threatned from God, proclaimed a fast,* 2.237 and charged all men to put on sack-cloath and crie migh∣tily to God and to turne from (their) euill wayes and the wickednesse that was in their handes. I trust you dare not condemne the king of Niniueth for an intruder vpon ecclesiasticall causes, whose seruice so well pleased God, that he spared the king and his subiectes from destruction hanging ouer their heads: and yet fasting, praier and repentance be causes meere spirituall, in which the king interposed his royall authoritie by the councell of his Nobles,* 2.238 and not of Ionas who departed the citie grieued and angrie with God for pardoning the Niniuites vpon their conuersion.

The factes of these three kinges I alleadge the rather because S. Augu∣stine grounded himselfe vpon them,* 2.239 as proofes that christian kinges may medle with matters of Religion, and as patternes for them to follow. Ye kinges vnderstand, be wise ye that iudge the earth, serue the Lord with feare, and reioyce before him with trembling. How do kings serue the Lord in feare, but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie, those thinges which are done against the precepts of God? As the king of Niniueth ser∣ued by compelling the whole citie to appease the Lord. As Darius serued by giuing the Idole into Daniels power to bee broken, and casting his ene∣mies to the Lions. As Nabuchodonosor serued by restraining all that were in his kingdom from blaspheming God, with a terrible law. And againe, Whē Emperours professe the truth they commaunde for truth against error.* 2.240 As Nabuchodonosor proposed an edict for truth against error, that whosoeuer blasphemed the God of Sidrach, Misaach, and Abednago should be destroi∣ed and his house dispersed. And you (Donatistes) will not that christian Emperours command any such thing against you. If the commaundements of kinges haue nothing to do with the publishing of religion and prohibi∣ting of sacrileges,* 2.241 why then do you signe your selues at king (Nabuchodosors) edict commaunding such thinges? For when you heare it, doe you not an∣swere Amen, and saying so with a loud voice, do you not signe your selues in the holie solemnitie at the kinges edict?

What Moses, Iosua, Dauid, Salomon, Asa, Iehosaphat, Ezechias, Manas∣ses, Iosias,* 2.242 Nehemias did for the planting, preseruing and purging of true reli∣gion, and how they commaunded, reproued and punished as well Priestes as others for spirituall crimes and causes, the places are infinite, and witnessed in no worse recordes than the Scriptures themselues: I will not touch them all but onely shew that euery one of these in their times & raignes medled with Ecclesiasticall men and matters, which is the point that you would impugne by your allegations.

Moses the ciuill Magistrate reproued Aaron the high Priest, for making the golden calfe,* 2.243 and stamping it to powder cast it into the water that Israell

might drinke it, and in one daie put three thowsand of them for that idolatrie to the sworde. And after the rebellion of Corah, when the residue were pla∣gued for murmuring against Moses and Aaron,* 2.244 Moses commaunded Aarō to take the censer and stand betweene the liuing and the dead to make attone∣ment for the people. And as during life Moses guided & ruled them in al things both spiritual and temporal, so, readie to depart, he carefully warned, and final∣ly blessed the twelue tribes of Israell.* 2.245

Iosua that succeeded him,* 2.246 a Prince not a Priest was charged by God to me∣ditate in the booke of the law day & night, that thou maiest obserue, saith God, and do according to all that is written therein, and the people receiued him with this submission,* 2.247 As we obeied Moses in all things so will we obey thee. Whosoeuer shall rebell against thy commaundement, and will not obey thy wordes in all that thou commandest him, let him be put to death.

And least you should thinke that he commaunded in nothing but temporall matters,* 2.248 he circumcised the sonnes of Israell, erected an Altar of stone for their offerings, read the whole law to them, there was not a word of all that Moses commaunded, which Iosua read not before all the congregation; searched and punished the concealer of thinges dedicated to idols,* 2.249 & not long before he died, in his owne person renewed the couenant betweene God and the people, & caused them to put away the strange Gods that were among them,* 2.250 insomuch that by his diligent care and good regiment, Israell serued the Lord all the dayes of Iosua.

How far king Dauid medled with matters of religion,* 2.251 if the Psalmes which he made for Asaph and his brethren to sing in assemblies, and order which hee set for the whole seruice of the Temple, appointing the Priestes, Leuites, Sin∣gers and other Seruitours of the church their dignities, courses and offices, did not declare; the charge which he gaue to king Salomon his sonne, and the praise which he gate at Gods handes for the faithfull execution and religious obseruation of his law giuen by Moses in all thinges and causes both spirituall and temporall are sufficient euidence. Take heede to the charge of the Lord thy God,* 2.252 saith Dauid to Salomon, to walke in his waies and keepe his sta∣tutes, & his commaundementes, and his iudgementes and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses: This God himselfe repeated to Salomō, proposing Dauid his father for a paterne vnto him: If thou wilt walke be∣fore me,* 2.253 (as Dauid thy father walked in purenesse of heart and vprightnes) to doe according to all that I haue commaunded thee, and keepe my sta∣tutes and my iudgementes, I will establish the throne of thy kingdom vpon Israell for euer.

Phi.

Do these wordes proue that Dauid did or Salomon might medle with Ecclesiasticall matters?* 2.254

Theo.

These places and such like doe fully proue that the Kinges and Gouernours of Israell and Iudah were appointed by God himselfe to haue the custodie, charge and ouersight of all thinges mentio∣ned and expressed in Moses law. Here you see the wordes are, to do accor∣ding

to all that I haue commaunded thee and keepe my statutes and iudgementes:* 2.255 To Iosua God saide; that thou maiest obserue and doe ac∣cording to all that is written (in the booke of the Law;* 2.256) and likewise of the king in generall,* 2.257 The booke of the Law shall be with him, and he shal read therein all the daies of his life, that he may learne, to keepe all the wordes of this Law and these ordinances to fulfill them. The king was charged with all the wordes and ordinances of Moses Law: the law of Moses contained al thinges which God required of Priestes or people both spirituall and tempo∣rall, ergo the king was charged by God himselfe as well with all Ecclesiasti∣call thinges and causes as with Temporall. And consequently Dauid and all other kinges that discharged their duties to God in such sort, as hee inioy∣ned them,* 2.258 medled with all thinges and causes Ecclesiasticall and Temporall.

Phi.

Frame your argument shorter.

Theo.

They were charged with all, er∣go they should medle with all: and some discharged their dueties to God, for ex∣ample, such as were commended and fauored by God, whom I before named; ergo some did medle with al the preceptes of God both Ecclesiastical and Tem∣porall.

Phi.

They were charged to obserue the whole Law as all other men were.

Theo.

They were charged for their owne persons as all priuate men were, but as kinges they were charged for others in such manner as no subiect coulde be charged,* 2.259 namely to see the lawe of God to be publikely receiued & fully obser∣ued within their Realmes, and all other sortes of Religion and policie to bee cleane forbidden and banished.

Phi.

This is your surmise.

Theo.

It is S. Augustines maine collection in sundrie places, fet from the verie Principles of reason and nature; and confirmed by the warrant of the sacred Scrip∣tures. The king serueth God, saith Saint Augustine,* 2.260 As a man one waie, as a king an other way. As a man by liuing faithfully, as a king by make∣ing Lawes with conuenient vigor to commaund that which is right & for∣bid the contrarie.* 2.261 And againe, Kinges euen in that they be kinges haue to serue the Lord, in such sort as none can do which are not kinges. For kings (in respect as they be kinges) serue the Lord, if in their kingdomes they cō∣maund that which is good, and forbid that which is euill. How then, saith he, do kinges serue the Lord, but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges that are done against the commaundementes of the Lord?* 2.262 And thus much the verie deriuation of the name doth inferre. Rex à regendo dicitur, a king is he that ruleth (others) and the relation of the worde doth teach vs there can be no king but in respect of his subiectes, and his duetie towardes them is to direct and correct, that is to commaund and punish in all thinges needefull.

Phi.

What conclude you of all this?

Theo.

That where God chargeth the king to keepe and obserue all the wordes of the lawe, keeping and obseruing are not there referred to his priuate actions as a man, but to his publike function as a king: and therefore the king in these wordes receiued the

charge and ouersight of the whole lawe, that is an expresse commaundement from God to see the lawe kept, and euerie part thereof obserued of all men within his Dominions, and the breakers of it, Prophetes, Priestes and People to bee duely punished. Nowe the Lawe contained all thinges that any way touched the true seruice and worshippe of God, ergo the king had one and the selfe-same power and charge to commaund and punish as well for the preceptes of pietie as other pointes of policie, neither did God fauour or pros∣per any of the kinges of Israell or Iudah but such as chiefly respected and care∣fully maintained the ordinances of Religion prescribed vnto them in Moses lawe.* 2.263 In the times of the Prophetes, saith S. Augustine, all the kinges which in the people of God did not forbid and ouerthrow those thinges which were brought in against the commandementes of God, are blamed: and they that did prohibite and subuert such thinges, are praysed aboue the rest.

God blessed Salomon with wisedome,* 2.264 honour, riches and peace so long as hee walked in the steppes of Dauid his father: during the which time Sa∣lomon did dedicate the Temple in his owne person,* 2.265 and cast out Abiathar from being Priest vnto the Lord, and set Zadocke in his roome: but when his heart once turned from God to builde places also for Idols and to suf∣fer his outlandish wiues to burne incense and offeringes to their Gods,* 2.266 then the Lorde was angrie with Salomon and stirred vppe aduersaries a∣gainst him and threatned to rent his kingdom from him, and to giue it to his seruant.

Asa tooke awaie the Altars of the strange Gods,* 2.267 and the high places, and brake downe the images, and cut downe the groues, and commaun∣ded Iudah to seeke the Lord God of their fathers, and tooke awaie out of all the cities of Iudah the high places and images, therefore the kingdome was quiet before him. And hee tooke an oth of all Iudah and Beniamin, that Whosoeuer woulde not seeke the Lorde God of Israell shoulde be slaine,* 2.268 whether hee were small or great, man or woman, and hee deposed Maachah his mother from her regencie, because she had made an idoll: & Asa brake downe her idol and stamped it and burnt it, and the Lord gaue him rest round about.

Iehosaphat his sonne walked in the first waies of Dauid and sought the Lord God of his father,* 2.269 and walked in his commaundementes, and therefore the Lord established the kingdome in his handes, so that hee had riches and honour in aboundance. In the thirde yeare of his raigne he sent his Princes that they should teach in the cities of Iudah, and with them Leuites and Pristes, and him selfe went through the people from Beer-sheba to Mount-Ephraim, and brought them againe to the Lord God of their fa∣thers. In Ierusalem he sent of the Leuites and of the Priests and of the chiefe of the families of Israell for the iudgement and cause of the Lord. And he charged them saying, Thus shal ye do in the feare of the Lord faithfully and

with a perfect heart.* 2.270 Thus shall ye do and trespasse not. And behold Ama∣riah the Priest shall be the chiefe among you for al the matters of the Lord, and Zebadiah for all the kinges affaires, and the Leuites shall be helpers vn∣to you.* 2.271 Be strong and doe it. And when the Moabites and Ammonites came against him, he proclaimed a fast throughout all Iudah and stood in the congregation of Iudah and Ierusalem in the house of the Lord & pray∣ed in his owne person for all the people.

* 2.272Ezechiah did vprightly in the sight of the Lord according to all that Da∣uid his father had done. Hee opened the doores of the house of the Lorde, and brought in the Priestes and the Leuites, and saide vnto them; heare mee yee Leuites, sanctifie your selues and sanctifie the house of the Lord God of your fathers. I purpose to make a couenant with the Lord God of Israell: And they sanctified themselues according to the commaunde∣ment of the king. And the king rose early and gathered the Princes of the citie and went vppe to the house of the Lord. And they brought (sinne-offeringes) and Ezechiah commaunded to offer the burnt offering vppon the Altar, yea hee commaunded the Priestes the sonnes of Aaron to offer them.* 2.273 And when they had made an end of offering, Ezechiah the king & the Princes commaunded the Leuites to praise the Lord with the wordes of Dauid and Asaph the Seer.* 2.274 And Ezechiah sent to all Israell and Iudah & also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasses that they should come to the house of the Lord at Ierusalem to keepe the Passouer.* 2.275 So the Postes went with letters by the commission of the king and his Princes throughout all Israel and Iudah, and with the commandement of the king, saying: Yee children of Israell, turne againe vnto the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and Israell.* 2.276 And the hand of God was in Iudah, so that he gaue them one heart to doe the commaundement of the King. And Ezechiah appointed the courses of the Priestes and Leuites by their turnes, euerie man according to his office for the burnt offeringes and peace offeringes, to minister and giue thankes to praise in the gates of the tentes of the Lord.* 2.277 And in all the workes that hee beganne for the seruice of the house of God, hee did it with all his heart and prospered.* 2.278 Hee tooke away the high places and brake the Images and cutte downe the groues and brake in peeces the brasen Serpent which Moses had made, for in those dayes the children of Israell did burne incense to it.

* 2.279Manasses at the first wēt back & built the high places which Ezechiah his father had broken down, and set vp altars for Baalim, & made groues & wor∣shipped all the host of heauen & serued them, but after hee was taken by the king of Babylon & put in fetters,* 2.280 & bound in chaines, he hūbled himself great∣ly before the God of his fathers; & God was intreated of him, and heard his prayer, and brought him againe to Ierusalem into his kingdom. Then hee tooke awaie the strange Gods, and the image out of the house of the Lord,* 2.281 and all the Altars that hee had built in the mount of the Lordes

house and in Ierusalem,* 2.282 and cast them out of the citie. Also he repaired the Altar of the Lord, and sacrificed thereon peace-offeringes and of thankes, and commaunded Iudah to serue the Lord God of Israell.

Iosiah,* 2.283 in the eight yeare of his raigne, when he was yet a childe (of sixe∣teene yeares) began to seeke after the God of Dauid his father, and in the twelfth yeare he began to purge Iudah & Ierusalem from the high places & the groues and the carued and molten Images.* 2.284 And they brake downe in his sight the Altars of Baalim, and hee caused to cut downe the images that were on them: he brake also the groues, and the karued & molten images, and stampt them to powder and strewed it vpō the graues of them that had sacrificed on them;* 2.285 Also hee burnt the bones of the Priestes vpon their Al∣tars, and purged Iudah and Ierusalem. And when hee had destroyed the Altars, and cut downe all the idols throughout the lande of Israell, he returned to Ierusalem.* 2.286 Then the king sent and gathered all the Elders of Iudah and Ierusalem. And the king went vp to the house of the Lord, and all the men of Iudah and inhabitantes of Ierusalem, and the Priestes and the Leuites, and all the people from the greatest to the smallest, and hee read in their eares, all the wordes of the booke of the couenant, that was found in the house of the Lord.* 2.287 And the king stood by his Piller, and made a co∣uenant before the Lord to walke after the Lord and to keepe his comman∣dementes, and his statutes with all his heart, & with all his soule, & that hee would accomplish the wordes of the couenant written in that booke. And hee caused al that were found in Ierusalem and Beniamin to stand to (the couenant.)* 2.288 So Iosias tooke awaie all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of Israell, and compelled all that were founde in Israell to serue the Lord their God: & al his dayes they turned not backe from the Lord God of their fathers.

Moreouer Iosiah kept a Passouer vnto the Lord in Ierusalem and hee ap∣pointed the Priestes to their charges and said to the Leuites,* 2.289 Serue now the Lord your God and his people Israell, & prepare your selues by the houses of your fathers according to your courses, as Dauid the king of Israell hath written, and according to the writing of Salomon his sonne. And stand in the sanctuarie, according to the diuision of the families of your brethren: Kill the Passouer and sanctifie your selues and prepare your brethren, that they may doe according to the word of the Lord by the hande of Moses. Thus the seruice was prepared,* 2.290 and the Priestes stood in their places, also the Leuites in their orders according to the kinges commaundement. So all the seruice of the Lord was prepared the same day to keepe the Passouer & to offer burnt offeringes vpon the Altar of the Lord according to the com∣maundement of king Iosiah.* 2.291

Nehemias though he were no king but a captaine sent frō king Artaxerxes,* 2.292 yet he discerned & resisted the Prophetes, that would haue put (him) in feare, & was the first that sealed the couenant between God & the people with an oth

to walke in the law of God,* 2.293 and to obserue all the commaundementes of the Lord. And he displaced Tobiah an Ammonite whom Eliashib the high Priest had receiued and lodged within the court of the house of God,* 2.294 and cast out all the vessels of the house of Tobiah, and commaunded them to clense the chambers for the vessels of the house of God: And reproued the rulers for that the house of God was forsaken, & the Sabbaoth day bro∣ken: assembling the Leuites & singers: & setting them their places; & charg∣ing the Leuites to clense themselues and to sanctifie the Sabbaoth daie. And when he saw Iewes that maried (strange) wiues, he rebuked them and cursed them and smote certain of them & tooke an oth of them by God, that they should not mary with strangers. And one of the sonnes of Ioiadah the sonne of Eliashib the high Priest maried the daughter of Sanballat the Horonite, but Nehemiah chased him awaie;* 2.295 and clensed (the Priestes and Leuites) from all strangers, and appointed them their courses euerie one in his office.

* 2.296There needeth no great skill to set this togither. To remoue idols, & all abo∣minations out of the land, to enter a couenāt with God, & to walke in his waies, to proclaime fastes, an d make publike praiers, to sanctifie the Temple, and celebrate the Passouer, to seeke and serue God according to his law; bee mat∣ters ecclesiasticall, not temporall; and yet in the same cases the godly kinges of Iudah commaunded and compelled all that were found in Iudah, Priest and Prophet, man and woman, to stand to that order, which they tooke for the better accomplishing of those their interprises. Acknowledge that right and power in Christian Princes at this day, to medle with matters of Religi∣on, which the Scriptures report and commend in kinges of religious and fa∣mous memorie, we presse you no farther: If you sticke to graunt so much, others will not stick to distrust the soundnesse of your doctrine, notwithstan∣ding the smoothnesse of your tongues and loftynesse of your spirites, where∣with you thinke to compasse and quaile kingdomes.

Phi.

* 2.297The kinges of Iudah did that which they did at the motion of the Prophetes and direction of the Priestes.

Theo.

You shun that, which you shal not auoide. Wee reason not, who moued and aduised, but who decreed and commaunded these thinges to be done; Priestes or Princes? The Scriptures in plaine termes saie, that Princes DECREED, APPOINTED, COMMAN∣DED them to be done. Contradict the wordes if you dare. Take from Asa, Iehosaphat, Ezechias, Iosias, the king of Niniueth and others the Princely power which they shewed, & due praise which they merited in medling with these matters, & impugne the words whereby God expresseth & approueth their doings,* 2.298 & see whether the consciēces of all good men will not detest & abhor your wilfull impietie.

Phi.

The Scripture saith in deede, they commaunded, appointed, de∣creed these thinges, but no doubt they were directed by Prophetes and other spirituall Pastours what they should do.

Theo.

What if they were? Doth

that hinder their authoritie? Princes in ciuill affaires are guided and direc∣ted by learned and wise Counsellers; doe they therefore not commaund in tem∣porall matters neither? Or finde you no difference betweene counselling and commaunding?

Phi.

Againe these Princes were before the comming of Christ,* 2.299 when as yet there was no supreme Pastour ouer the whole Church.

Theo.

There was an high Priest ouer the twelue Tribes with surer and better authoritie than your holy father can shewe for him-selfe. All Israell by Gods owne mouth were referred to the iudgement of the Priestes and Leuites, and not to decline from the thing which they speake: & The man, saith God, that will do presumptuouslie not harkning vnto the Priest (that standeth before the Lord to minister) that man shall die. This was their commission, & yet this notwithstanding the kings of Iudah commaunded both Prist and people for matters of religion.

And so did the Christian Emperours after the comming of Christ,* 2.300 for eight hundred yeares that wee shewe, commaund both Bishoppes and o∣thers, yea the Bishoppe of Rome no lesse than others in causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall. The particulars I noted before. The Lawes were publike, the time long, the Princes wise; the factes knowen, the Church of Christ honoured and obeyed those decrees: It is no doubt∣full question, but a manifest trueth that the best Princes before Christ, and after Christ for many yeares, medled with the reformation of the Church, and prescribed lawes both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall.

S. Augustine accompteth them not vsurpers,* 2.301 as you doe, but happie Princes that imployed their authoritie to delate and spreade the true wor∣shippe of God as much as they coulde, and auoucheth plainely that God him-selfe speaketh and commaundeth by the mouthes and heartes of Princes when they commaunde in matters of Religion that which is good, and whosoeuer resisteth their Ecclesiasticall Lawes made for trueth shall bee grieuouslie plagued at Gods handes.* 2.302 (Imperatores) felices dicimus, si suam potestatem ad DEI cultum maximè dilatandum maiestatis eius famu∣lam faciunt. Wee count (Princes) blessed, if they bende their pow∣er to doe God seruice, for the spreading of his (true) worshippe, as much as they can.* 2.303 Hoc iubent imperatores quod iubet & Christus: quia cum bonum iubent, per illos non iubet nisi Christus. Emperours commaunde the selfe-same that Christ doeth: because when they commaunde that which is good, it is Christ him-selfe that commaundeth by them. And •• little after:* 2.304 Attendite qua manifestissima veritate per cor regis quod in manu Dei est ipse Deus dixerat inista ipsa lege quam contra vos prolatam dicitis: Marke yee with howe manifest trueth by the Kinges heart, which is in Gods hande, GOD himselfe spake in that verie Lawe, which you saie was made against you. And therefore hee concludeth: Quicunque legibus Imp••∣ratorum, quae pro Dei veritate feruntur,* 2.305 obtemporare non vult, grande acquirit

supplicium: Whosoeuer will not obey the lawes of Princes which are made for the truth of God, is sure to beare an heauie iudgement.

* 2.306The Princes themselues will teach you that by their power they may, by their charge they should medle with matters Ecclesiasticall. The authority of (our) lawes, saith Iustinian, disposeth diuine and humane thinges. Thence is it that we take greatest care for the true religion of God, and honest con∣uersation of Priestes. So likewise Theodosius and Valentinian: Ea quae circa Catholicam fidem vel ordinauit antiquit as, vel parentum nostrorum autho∣ritas religiosa constituit, vel nostra Serenitas roborauit, nouella superstitione remo∣ta, integra & inuiolata custodire praecipimus. Those thinges which ancient (Princes) haue ordained, or the religious authoritie of our Progenitours decreed, or our highnesse established concerning the catholike faith, wee commaund you to keepe them firme and inuiolable, all latter superstition remoued. And this they recken to be the first part of their Princely charge. Inter caeteras sollicitudines, quas amor publicus peruigili nobis cogitatione indixit, prae∣cipuam Imperatoriae, maiestatis curam esse praecipimus verae religionis indaginem. A∣mong the rest of those dueties which the common-wealth exacteth at our handes, we perceiue the inquirie of true religion should be the chiefest care of our Princely calling.

Valentinian the elder, though at first hee refused to deale with profound questions of religion, yet after hee was content to enterpose his authoritie with others,* 2.307 and to commaund that the faith of the Trinitie should be right∣ly preached, & the Sacrament of Baptisme by no meanes doubled. The blessed Bishops, saith he with Valens & Gratian, haue made demonstration that the Father, the Sonne and the holy Ghost be a Trinitie coessentiall; & nostra po∣tentia eandem praedicari mandauit, and our power hath commaunded the same (truth) to be preached. And againe: The bishop which shall reiterate holy Baptisme, we count vnworthy of his place. For wee condemne their er∣ror, which treading the Apostolike preceptes vnder their feete, doe not clense but rather defile those with a second washing that are once alreadie baptized.

Zeno seeking to reconcile the Bishops, Clerkes, Monkes and people of E∣gypt and Alexandria to the Nicene faith,* 2.308 beginneth with these wordes, For so much as wee know that onely faith, which is right and syncere, to bee the grounde, staie, strength and inuincible defence of our Empire, wee haue alwaies emploied our desires, endeuours and lawes, that thereby wee might multiplie the holie Catholike and Apostolike church, the per∣petuall and vndefiled mother of our Scepter. And Iustinus nephewe to Iustinian writing a publike Edict to all Christians concerning ma∣nie pointes of true Religion maketh his conclusion with these wordes: Omnes eos qui contraria hijsce vel sentiunt vel sensuri sunt, Anathemate damnamus,* 2.309 & alienos à sancta Dei Catholica & Apostolica Ecclesia iudi∣camus: Wee condemne them all as accursed that presentlie doe or here∣after

shall thinke contrarie to these things, & we adiudge to haue no part in the holy Catholike and Apostolike Church of God.

This care to prouide, and power to commaund for matters of religiō, Prin∣ces as well in this realme as els where continued a thousand yeres after Christ. The Bishop of Rome himselfe 850 yeres after Christ promiseth all kind of o∣bedience to the chapters and lawes ecclesiasticall of Lotharius & his ancestours. In Greece the Emperours lost not their authoritie to call Councels and esta∣blish trueth till they lost Empire and all. More than thirtine hundred yeres af∣ter Christ, Nicephorus highly commendeth a Greeke Emperour for his labors and endeuours in the Church affaires.* 2.310 You haue, saith he to the Prince, resto∣red the Catholike and vniuersal Church to her auncient state that was trou∣bled with nouelties: impure and vnsound doctrine you haue banished from her; you haue purged the temple from heretikes that were corrupters and deprauers of heauenly doctrine, not so much with a three corded whippe as with the worde of trueth. You haue established the faith, and made consti∣tutions for it: you haue walled about true godlines with mightie defen∣ces, you haue repaired that, which was ruinous. Priestly vnction decaied, you haue made purer than gold, and by lawes and letters taught them so∣briety of life and contempt of mony. Wherefore their order is now sacred in the common wealth which in former times was degenerated & infected with corruption of discipline and manners.* 2.311 Yea, when you sawe our true religion brought in danger by false and absurd doctrines, you did most zea∣lously and most wisely vndertake the defence of it. And knowing very well that piety of it selfe & the diligent care of Gods causes,* 2.312 are the surest proppes of an Empire, you tooke a diuine and passing wise course. For by medling with these matters (of religion) you wanne great thankes of God, and gaue him iust cause to bee fauorable to your praiers, to direct al your doings and confirme and setle the Empire in your hands.

Canutus a King of this land not full 32 yeres before the conquest apparent∣ly proueth that Princes kept their authoritie to commaund for matters of reli∣gion more than a thousand yeeres after Christ.* 2.313 His lawes made by a Councel of his sages at Winchester, are yet extant. Heare some of them, and then tell vs whether he did meddle with ecclesiastical causes or no.

First he commaundeth all men to loue one God for euer aboue all things,* 2.314 and one rule of Christian religion wel and aduisedly to hold.

Item he willeth al men to discharge their functions,* 2.315 specially the seruants of god, Bishops, Abbots, Moncks, Canons, & Nonnes to do their duties, to liue according to their rules, to make their praiers night and day for all Christian folke.

Item hee biddeth and on Gods behalf forbiddeth that any Christian man take to wife a kinsewoman within six degrees,* 2.316 or his wiues kinswoman or his Godmother at the font, or a professed Nonne, or a diuorced woman, or keepe harlots, or haue mo wiues than one, and that in lawfull mariage.

Item that holy dayes, and fasting dayes be kept,* 2.317 & Sunday be kept holy from satur∣day

noone till munday morning. Fayres, Courts, huntings and worldly woorkes on that day to bee forborne.

* 2.318Item that all fasts which bee bidden, ember dayes and Lent bee kept, and the feasts of our Lady and the Apostles to bee fasted, saue Philip and Iacob: euery friday to bee fasted, except it bee holy day: and no man to fast from Easter to Whit∣suntide, or from Christmas to the Octaues of the Epiphanie, vnlesse hee will or it bee enioyned him.

* 2.319Item that euery Christian prepare himselfe for the communion thrise a yere: And truely keepe his othe and promise, and loue God with an inward reuerence, and heare diligently heauenly teachers, and oft and many times search and looke on Gods Law & his dictrine.

* 2.320Item that euery Christian man learne so much, that hee can the true fayth and the true vnderstanding thereof, namely, the Lordes prayer and the Creede: Or else not to haue Christian buriall, neither to bee admitted whiles he lyueth to the Lordes table nor to vndertake for others at the font or before the Bi∣shoppe.

* 2.321Item that Bishops be preachers, and teachers of Gods Lawe, and carefull followers of goodwoorkes.

Item that Witches, sorcerers, Idolaters, periures, strumpets, breakers of or∣der and wedlocke be banished the realme: with other Lawes for tythes, temples, Church rightes, trial of Clergie men accused, and such like dueties and offences ecclesiasticall.

Phi.

You presse me with a number of places, that proue nothing against vs directly.

Theo.

Take the weakest of them, and see whether it will not inferre that Princes medled with causes ecclesiasticall.* 2.322

Phi.

We knowe they medled with them, but not as supreme Gouernours of them.

Theo.

I brought these places to refell that generall obiection which you framed out of Osius, Leonti∣us and others, that Princes shoulde not medle with causes ecclesiasticall. If you graunt they did▪ and might lawfully meddle with such matters, as the places which I bring do proue, then by your owne confession Constantius was not re∣proued for medling with religion, for so did other godly Princes that were not reproued but highly commended and honoured in the Church of Christ: but ra∣ther he was reproued, as I answered you at the first, for his insolent and tyran∣nous kind of medling with these matters, which was, as I shewed, you for that in his owne person, hauing no skil nor experience in such cases, he would needes end and determine all thinges according to his owne fansie without respect of right or trueth, and execute the same with terrible force and rigor exceeding the boundes of all Christian humanitie.

* 2.323Againe these later examples as well as the former import that Princes had all this while full power to plant and establish the Christian fayth in their realmes and to punish ecclesiasticall transgressions and disorders in all sorts of subiects, Lay men and Clerkes, which is all that wee seeke for and all that wee meane when wee make them Gouernours of their dominions in all cau∣ses

both ecclesiasticall and temporall; and since you can neither deny the lawes, Edicts nor acts of Princes, which wee produce to this purpose, nor possi∣bly shift them, why doe you wickedly slaunder and malitiously peruert that doctrine which you shall neuer soberly confute?

Phi.

You will haue Princes to bee supreme Gouernours in these cases;* 2.324 this is it that wee most impugne.

Theo.

Well then let vs goe by degrees. Doe you graunt them to bee Gouernours in those cases?

Phi.

What meane you by Gouernours?

Theo.

Such as haue lawfull authoritie from God to commaunde for trueth and punish error.

Phi.

Doe you make them Iudges and Deciders of trueth?

Theo.

No, but receiuers and establishers of it.

Phi.

Yea but who shall tell them which is trueth?

Theo.

That is not this question. When wee reason whether Princes may com∣maund for trueth and punish error, you must not cauill about the meanes to knowe trueth from error, but suppose that trueth were confessed and a∣greed on: and in that case what may Princes doe for trueth.

Phi.

Mary Sir if trueth were not in strife the doubt were not so great.

Theo.

If I shoulde aske you whether Princes may reuenge murders and punish theftes, were this an answere to say, but howe shall they knowe what murder is, and who bee theeues? No more, when wee demaunde what duetie Princes owe to God and his trueth, shoulde you stand quarel∣ling what trueth is or howe trueth may bee knowen? The Princes due∣tie to God is one question which wee nowe handle; the way to discerne trueth from error is an other, which anon shall ensue when once this is ended; but first let vs haue your direct answere whether Princes may com∣maunde for trueth or no?

Phi.

For trueth they may: but if they take quid pro quo they both hazard them selues and their whole Realmes, and for that cause we say they must bee directed by Bishoppes.

Theo.

You slide to the second question againe before the first bee finished. Stay for that till this bee tried.* 2.325 You graunt that Princes may command for trueth, Do you not?

Phi.

Wee doe.

Theo.

When you say they may commaunde for trueth, you doe not meane this or that poynt of trueth, but indefinitely for trueth, that is for all parts of trueth alike, without the which God can not rightly bee serued.

Phi.

They may commaunde for all as well as for part, if the Bishoppes neede their helpe in all.

Theo.

And commaunding is not onely the free per∣mitting of those that wil,* 2.326 but the moderate punishing of those that will not. For punishment is the due desert of him that neglecteth the commaundement which he should obey. So that he which may iustly commaund, may iustly pu∣nish; and hee that may lawfully punish may certainely commaund. Howe say you then, may Princes punish for matters of religion?

Phi.

No doubt they may, but when and where the Priest must guyde.

Theo.

Who beareth the sworde? The Priest or the Prince?

Phi.

The Prince, not the Priest.

Theo.

And that sworde, which the Prince

beareth,* 2.327 must doe the deede, must it not?

Phi.

It must.

Theo.

And the fact is as lawfull in Princes when they punish schismatikes, heretikes and Idola∣ters as when they punish adulterers, theeues and murderers?

Phi.

What else?

Theo.

And if they leaue such impieties against God vnpunished they do not that duetie which God requireth of them.

Phi.

All this wee grant.

Theo.

Will you not recall it when we come to the push?

Phi.

Recall it? As though this could hurt vs?

Theo.

Since you promise not to recall it, I will trust you for this once and will come to the true difference betwixt your opinion & ours.

* 2.328You flatly confesse, and the generall practise of your Church is, that Prin∣ces of duetie should and lawfully may punish all spiritual & ecclesiasticall offen∣ces, namely, Apostasie, Idolatrie, sorcerie, sacrilege, schisme, heresie and such like impieties against God and his Church, as well as ciuill disorders and in∣iuries against our neighbours: Can you denie this?

Phi.

I can not.

Theo.

Wee confesse the same. Let it stand irreuocable for both sides.

Phi.

Agreed. But remember they bee punishers not determiners, of those thinges.

Theo.

I said punishers if you looke to my words.

Phi.

I grant that doctrine to bee good and sound.

Theo.

* 2.329Then foorth. What you say Princes may punish, we say Princes may prohibite. Prohibiting is lesse than punishing, & a meane to make subiectes do their dueties without punishing, which euery Christian Magistrate shoulde rather embrace. Princes by common iustice must open their mouthes to speak, before they lift vp their handes to strike; their lawes must bee knowen, before their sword must be drawen to reuenge disobedience. Nothing can be iustly pu∣nished except it bee first prohibited. So that princes may punish those things, ergo they may prohibite them.

Phi.

Great reason Princes should warne their subiects as well as punish them. Prohibiting is but forewarning what thinges they must auoyde lest they fall into the paynes prescribed.

Theo.

* 2.330If they may punish and prohibite that which is euill, ergo they may commaund and establish that which is good in matters of religion. Howe like you the sequele?

Phi.

You thinke it holdeth by reason of the contrarietie that is betweene both parts.

Theo.

All learning will tell you that contraries bee consequent to contraries. If they may forbid and abolish that which is euil, ergo they may bid and establish that which is good. And so S. Augustine coupleth them. You hearde the places before. As a king hee serueth God by making Lawes commaunding iust thinges and prohibiting the contrarie. And a∣gaine, Kings as they bee kings, serue God as they bee willed by God, if in their kingdomes they commaunde that which is good and prohibite that which is euill, not in ciuill affayres only but in matters also touching diuine religion. They serue not God by prohibiting euill except they likewise com∣maund that which is good in diuine religion. By duetie they must, by conse∣quent they do both. How thinke you, say we not trueth?

Phi.

I see your meaning. You would haue Princes commaund in matters of religion.

Theo.

Wee would haue them in those thinges to commaund that

which is good as well as prohibites that which is euill.* 2.331 You graunt the later, why should you sticke at the former?

Phi.

Commaunding is a woord of too great authoritie.

Theo.

Whether thinke you the greater, with woordes to commaund, or with deedes to compell?

Phi.

Compelling is more than com∣maunding.

Theo.

And hee that punisheth, apparently compelleth. Since then by your owne confession Princes may compell men by punishments from that which is euill to that which is good in matters of religion, ergo they may much more command them that which is good.

Phi.

You snare mee with wordes.

Theo.

Doe I snare you with wordes when I say that Princes may commaund that which is good in matters of re∣ligion as well as punish that which is euill, or do you rather harden your faces and whet your tongues against the Scriptures, against the fathers, against the lawes and Edicts of all godly Princes in all ages and Countries?* 2.332 Looke no far∣ther than to the places which I haue brought you as well out of the holy scrip∣tures as ancient stories and lawes, & you shal find where princes commanded in causes ecclesiasticall (I meane the very woord) aboue three skore times: If that bee not sufficient you shall haue three hundred when you will. So that you make a bad march if you stand on this point with vs, that Princes may not commaund that which is good in matters of religion.

Phi.

You shall haue no such aduantage at vs.* 2.333 Wee knowe S. Augustine sayth, When Emperours take part with trueth, they commaund for trueth against error; which whosoeuer contemneth, hee purchaseth to himselfe iudgement. And againe, Emperours commaund the selfe same that Christ doth, for when they commaund that which is good, no man commaundeth by them but Christ.

Theo.

You did well to pull your fingers out of the fier; you sawe it was too hoat for you. S. Austen in that epistle which you quote vseth that very word twelue times to shew that Kings and Princes did and might COMMAVND in matters of religion. Reade the * 2.334 twentie constituti∣ons wherein Iustinian disposeth of crimes and causes ecclesiastical, and see whe∣ther euery sentence be not a commaundement. Or if that be too much, ouerrun the 123 intitled of diuers ecclesiasticall Chapters, and tell vs whether in that one constitution you do not finde aboue fourteene score imperatiue and prohi∣bitiue verbs, whereby the Prynce WILLETH, PRESCRIBETH, AP∣POINTETH, COMMAVNDETH, DISPOSETH, of persons and causes ecclesiasticall.

And this you can not choose but perceaue except you bee voide of common sense, that Princes vse not to perswade and intreate, but require and command their subiects. And therfore they must either not medle with matters of religi∣on at all, or els of necessitie they must commaund, and afterward punish if their commaundement be despised.

Phi.

Let it be so, since you will needs haue it so; but yet this doth not proue that Princes be supreme Rulers and masters of the faith and Church of Christ.

Theo.

You leape before you come to the stile. Anon you shall heare what

this doth proue: but first, Doe you graunt that Princes may commaund that which is good, & prohibite that which is euil in matters of religion?

Phi.

What gaine you by that if I graunt it?

Theo.

Take you no care for our gaines. Do you graunt it or no?

Phi.

What if I doe?

Theo.

What if, doth not answer my question; speake off or on to that which I demaund. Why be you so dainty to graunt that which you dare not deny?

Phi.

Take your pleasure in that point, and yet you shall misse your purpose.

Theo.

My purpose is trueth, which neither your high wordes nor indirect shifts shall disappoint. You spend time with delaies, we might otherwise sooner end.

Phi.

Will you answer, as briefly when I aske you the like?

Theo.

If I doe not, charge me with myne owne wordes.

Phi.

* 2.335Then I graunt that Princes may commaund that which is good, and prohibite that which is euill in matters of religion.

Theo.

You graunt it as an euident trueth confirmed by the Scriptures, confessed by the fathers, repor∣ted by the Stories of the Church, and infinitly repeated in the lawes and edicts of religious and auncient Emperours made for persons and causes ecclesiasti∣call: Or if you doubt any part of this diuision, haue recourse to the textes & pla∣ces before produced, and if euery part be not fully proued, refuse the whole.

Phi.

* 2.336I see they did, and therefore I resolue my selfe they might commaund in those cases.

Theo.

As well Bishops as others.

Phi.

God forbid Princes should commaund Bishops in matters of religion. Haue you forgotten what Osius saide to Constantius, Do not commaund vs in this kinde?

Theo.

Osius and others were commaunded by Constantius to condemn Athanasius against all order of equitie, and their certaine knowledge of his innocencie. For Osius was present and president in the Councell of Sardica where the cause of Atha∣nasius was fully debated by the consent of both Emperours East and West, and his accusers proued to bee wicked slaunderers; and in that case, he might iustly say to Constantius, Commaund vs not in this kind (or in these things) but learne (the trueth of) them rather at our hands that were by,* 2.337 when these matters were narowly sifted and Athanasius clearly discharged from all that could be saide against him.

And what if Osius had not limited his wordes to these particular respects, as in sight he doth; shall one poore place, thinke you, beare downe al the proofes, examples and authorities that I haue shewed you to the contrarie, where reli∣gious and auncient Emperours appointed, prescribed, commanded Bishops yea the chiefest Bishops in matters of doctrine and discipline?

* 2.338Constantine prescribed the bishops what was profitable for the Church, and commaunded the Councel of Tyrus to discusse the crimes obiected to A∣thanasius, and threatned to banish him if hee failed to present himselfe before the Synode, to teach him what it was to withstand the precept of the chiefe ruler defending the trueth. And vpon complaint made by Athanasius against them hee sent for the whole Councell with this commaundement: You must all of you resort hither to shewe the reason of your doings, and to giue ac∣compt

howe sincerely and soundly you haue iudged and that before mee, whom you shall not denie to bee Gods syncere minister: and when Arius should be restored, this was the stile that he vsed to Athanasius, knowing our pleasure, We charge you to suffer such as will to returne to the Church, and after commaunded Alexander Bishoppe of Constantinople to receiue (Arius) to the communion.* 2.339

Valentinian the elder rehearsing the Nicene fayth in his Edict added, Our power hath commaunded the same to bee preached. And when the people of Millan cried to haue Ambrose for their Bishop though hee were not yet bapti∣zed, the same prince commanded he should be presently baptized and conse∣crated,* 2.340 notwithstanding the Canons were strong against it & S. Paul seemeth not willing that a nouice should be a Bishoppe.* 2.341

Gratian commanded the Arrian Bishoppes to bee thrust from their Chur∣ches,* 2.342 and by vigor of his Princely Lawes depriued the Bishoppe, that rebapti∣zed, of his Priestly function.

Theodosius the elder commanded the followers of his Edict,* 2.343 Bishops and others, to be counted Christian Catholikes, and for the rest that beleeued other∣wise,* 2.344 he sayd Propelli iubemus, wee commaunded them to bee driuen from their Churches; and when Demophilus a Bishoppe refused to embrace the Nicene fayth, the Emperour in his owne person replied,* 2.345 then I commaunde thee to forgoe thy Churches.

It well be seemed a religious Prince,* 2.346 sayth Gregorie, to commaunde Bi∣shoppes in such things. And Charles appointing the Bishoppes what doctrine they should teach, sayth, This we charge and enioyne you the more precisely because we know that false teachers shall come in the later dayes. And for the reformation of certaine abuses in the Church hee keepeth this tenor of speach,* 2.347 Know ye sacred fathers this must be forbidden in your Diocesses.

The rest of the Lawes, Edicts and precepts of Godly Princes for causes ec∣clesiastical, which I before alleaged in no small number, doe they not either comprehend al men, and by consequent Bishoppes, or else directly and expresse∣ly commaunded Bishoppes by name? If those bee not sufficient you may & shall haue more.

Theodosius the younger sent his letters to the Patriarke of Alexandria for the seconde Councel of Ephesus with these wordes:* 2.348 Wee decree that the most holy Bishoppes meeting together, this vayne doubt may bee discussed, and the true Catholike fayth confirmed. Therefore Your holines bringing with you tenne of the most reuerend Metropolitanes that bee within your pro∣uince, and tenne other holy Bishoppes well accompted of for their lear∣ning and conuersation, shall hasten with all speede to meete (the rest) at Ephesus by the first of August next:* 2.349 no Bishoppe besides the foresaide troubling the sacred Synode. If any Bishoppe faile to come to the place prefixed at the time appointed, hee shall haue no excuse neither with GOD nor with vs. As for Bishoppe Theodorete, whom wee commaund to

attend at home on his owne Church, wee determine that hee shall bee none of your assemblie, vnlesse the whole councell thinke good to haue him one. But if any dissent, We commaund that the Synode sit without him, and dis∣patch those thinges which we haue appointed them.

* 2.350And in his second letters to the same Bishoppe, Because wee suspect that some of Nestorius fauourers will doe their best to be present at this Coun∣cell, therefore wee thinke needefull to aduertise you and the whole Synode that not onely in respect of Theodorete, but of all others which haue ought to do in your Councell, we giue you the preeminence and chiefe authoritie. And those that adde or diminish any thing to or from the Nicene fathers & the fathers since that assembled at Ephesus, Wee suffer them not to presume any thing in this sacred Synode, but wil haue them subiected to your iudge∣ment, because wee haue appointed this Synode for that purpose.

In the very same councell hee likewise commaunded, that those Bishoppes which not long before sate in iudgement vppon Eutiches should be present but silent and giue no voyces (with the rest) as iudges, but expect the cōmon determination of all the rest of the sacred fathers. And also commaunded that they should neither say neither do any thing in the sacred Councel, vn∣till the (right) fayth were concluded.

* 2.351Martian charged the 630. Bishops in the great Councell of Chalcedon, that None of them should dare dispute of the natiuitie of our Lord and Sauiour Christ otherwise than the 318. fathers of Nice deliuered.

* 2.352Eusebius Bishoppe of Dorilaeum at the same time put vp a supplication to Martian & Valentinian the third against Dioscorus Patriarke of Alexandria with these wordes, In most humble wise we beseech your Maiesties that you will cōmand the reuerend Bishop Dioscorus to answere to those things that we lay to his charge, for confirming a wicked heresie & deposing vs vniust∣ly directing your sacred precept to oecumenical councel of Bishops to heare the matter between vs and the said Dioscorus, and certifie your Maiesties of the whole cause, that you may do therein what shal please your Graces.

* 2.353Iustinian in his sixt Constitution prescribing what persons he will haue made Bishops, and how they shalbe qualified and examined, before they be ad∣mitted, threatneth in sharp manner: He that doth any thing besides this (which we haue appointed) both he that (is ordered) shalbe depriued of his function, and he that did order him, shall loose his Bishopricke for offend∣ing this law.

The like punishment he setteth downe for Simonie. Though, sayth Iustini∣an, he haue all other things that we before required, yet, if hee procure a Bi∣shopricke by mony or mony worth, Let him knowe that hee shall be turned out of his Bishoprike, and doe his orderer this pleasure, that he also shall be remoued from his office and from the Clergie.

So for ordering and not examining that was obiected against the Person: If one come to bee made a Bishop, and any man contradict and offer to lay

somewhat to his charge,* 2.354 Let him not be ordered, before such complaints be discussed. And if he that should make him, hasten to consecration, after such contradiction without examining the matter, Let him know that which he doth shall be vtterly void, and also he that goeth against our law shall be de∣priued of his Priestly function, and he that ordered him without trial, shall likewise be remooued from his Episcopall dignitie

So for absence from his church after he is Bishop.* 2.355 This also we define, that no Bishop bee so hardie as to absent himselfe from his Church aboue one whole yere. If he be away longer than a yere, let the Patriarke of that regi∣on cite him orderly to returne: If he continue disobedient, let him be clean expelled from the sacred number of Bishops.

And generally for all matters comprised in that constitution;* 2.356 The things which we haue decreed for the preseruation of ecclesiastical order and state agreeable to the tenor and prescript of the sacred rules, let the most holy Patriarkes of euery Prouince, the Metropolitanes and the rest of the most reuerend Bishops and Clerks see that they keepe for euer hereafter sure and inuiolable; the punishment to him that transgresseth these things, shal be to be seuered quite from God, and excluded from his Priestly degree.

In his sixteene constitution, commaunding Clerks to be remoued from one Church to an other till the iust number which he decreed were supplied in eue∣ry Church, he writeth to the Patriarke of Constantinople in this wise.* 2.357 Your blessednes shall endeuour to put in execution the things which we haue thought decent for the profite of the sacred and holy Churches. And if any thing be attempted to the contrarie, let him assure himselfe, that durst enter orders against this our law, that it doe him no good.

In his 57 Constitutiō prohibiting the sacred mysteries to be celebrated in priuat Chappels;* 2.358 these things, saith he, we commaund to the most holy Arch∣bishop and vniuersall Patriarke of this Citie.

In his 123 Constitution you shal find examples enough, of his Princely pro∣hibitions and commaundements to Bishops for matters concerning the regi∣ment of the Church.

For first appointing how Bishoppes shall bee chosen, and that the Person elected shall before his admission deliuer a confession of the true faith subscri∣bed with his owne hand, and recite the praiers vsed in the sacred communion & holy Baptisme, and sweare that hee neither hath giuen nor promised, nor will giue any thing to those that elected him, nor to him that ordereth him, nor to any other the rather to attaine his ordering, he addeth;* 2.359 If any be made Bishope against this obseruation, as well he shall be cast out of his Bishoprike as the other that presumed to create him against this forme shall bee seuered one yere from the sacred ministerie and shall forfeit all his goods to the Church where he is Bishop. But if any man consecrate one that is accused before hee examine the matter, both he that is made and he that did make him shal bee depriued of their episcopall functions. Aboue al things This we decree

to bee kept that no man be made a Bishop by rewards. And therefore as well hee that giueth, as he that taketh, and he that would bee the meanes to worke it, shal be degraded.

* 2.360And so going on with Diuers ecclesiastical Chapters he saith, We forbid the Bishops to leaue their Churches, and to trauell into other coasts. And we commaund that in euery Prouince there be yerely kept a Synode, where causes of faith and doubts concerning the Canons and administration of ecclesiasticall things,* 2.361 as also touching Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and other Clerks and Rulers of Monasteries and Moncks either for their liues or other things needing reformation shall be handled; and in conuenient manner examined and corrected according to the sacred Canons and OVR (im∣perial) LAVVES.

Besides we command that all Bishoppes and Priests doe celebrate the sa∣cred oblation and praiers in the holy Baptisme, not secretly but with a loud voice, so as the faithfull people may heare: the religious Priests (and Bi∣shops) knowing that if they neglect any of these things they shall answer for it in the dreadfull iudgement of the great GOD and our Sauiour Christ, neither will wee vnderstanding thereof passe it ouer or leaue it vnpunished.

We also forbid the most religious Bishops, Priests, and all other Clerks to play at tables or to companie with such gamsters or to be present at specta∣cles. If any of them offend in this point, we command that he bee suspended from his function for three yeres.

Likewise we forbid all Bishops and Priests to separate any man from the communion til a cause be shewed for which the Canons wil it to be doone. If any man separate an other from the communion against this law, the par∣tie that is greeued vniustly shal be absolued and receaued to the communi∣on by an higher Priest: And he that durst excommunicate vniustly shall be put from the communion by the Bishop that is (next) aboue him as long as it seemeth good to (that superiour).

Moreouer if the Bishops of the same Synode haue any controuersie be∣tweene them touching ether ecclesiastical right or causes, first their Metro∣politane with two other Bishops of the same Synod shall determine the matter. And if either part find fault with that iudgment, then shal the Patri∣arke of that Prouince heare the cause and define that which is consonant to the canons ecclesiastical and our lawes, neither part hauing leaue to cōtra∣dict his sentence. If a Clerke or any other of what cause soeuer, appeale from a Bishop, first the Metropolitane shall iudge the matter according to the sacred canons and our lawes. If either side mislike, the cause shal deuolue to the Patriarke of the Prouince,* 2.362 and he shall end it by the direction of the Canons and our lawes.

Clerks we permit none to bee made except they be lettered, of a right faith & honest conuersation;* 2.363 & haue neither Concubine nor bastardes; but

such as either be single men or had or haue one lawful wife and her the first, no widowe, nor diuorced woman, nor otherwise interdicted by the lawes or Canons. A Priest wee will not haue made vnder the age of fiue and thir∣tie, neither a Deacon or Subdeacon vnder the age of fiue and twentie, nei∣ther a Reader vnder eighteene: A woman shall not bee admitted to serue the Church that is vnder fourtie, or hath beene twise maried.

Many skore precepts besides these that I recken shall you finde in that consti∣tution touching persons and causes ecclesiasticall with these words, Volumus, sancimus, iubemus: Wee wil, decree, commaund, and other verbes equiualent, prescribing directly to Bishops what order and course they shall keepe for the seemely regiment of Christes Church.

By the commandement of Iustinus vncle to Iustinian the Councell of Chal∣cedon was preached (and established) through the most holy Churches:* 2.364 And by the commandement of (an other) Iustinus (his nephew) was Gregorie cal∣led from Mount Sina to be chiefe Bishoppe (of Antioch) next after Anastasius whom the Prince remoued from his seate for wasting the Church treasures.* 2.365

Leo the successor and Anthemius that maried the daughter of Martian gaue forth this commandement:* 2.366 Let no man be made a Bishop for intreatie or for mony. If any man be detected to haue gottē the seate of a bishop by rewards or to haue taken any thing for the electing or ordering of others, let him be accused as for a publike crime and an offence committed against the state, & repelled from his priestly degree. And we adiudge him not only to be de∣priued for euer of that honor, but also to be condēned to perpetual infamie.

And the same princes by their Edict more general,* 2.367 We decree, say they, that those thinges which were in sort done against the Lord himselfe of true re∣ligion, being abrogated and vtterly abolished, al things be restoared againe to their former condition and order in which they were established before our times, as well touching the points of christian faith, as touching the state of the most sacred churches, & Martyrs chappels; Al innouations in the time of this tyrannie against the holy churches, & their reuerend bishops concer∣ning the right of their Episcopall creations, the deposing of any Bishop du∣ring those times, their prerogatiue to sit before others within Councell or without the priuileges of Metropolitanes and Patriarks (al such innouations we say) repealed, Let the grants & CONSTITVTIONS of the godly Prin∣ces before vs, and likewise ours touching churches, chappels of Martyrs, Bi∣shops, Clerkes, and Monkes be kept inuiolable.

Much more might be sayd, but this shal suffice. You bring vs one seely mista∣ken authoritie where Constantius commaunding against right and trueth in a Bishoppes cause was reproued; wee bring you, if you viewe the precedents well, an hundred expresse places and aboue, that auncient and religious prin∣ces commaunded Bishoppes and Councels in matters of doctrine and discipline, and were not reproued, but honoured and obeyed in the Church of God. Now choose whether you will shew your selues so voyd of al religion &

〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉

〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉

reason,* 2.368 that you will preferre a single and solitarie text, and the same so many wayes answered by vs, before the publike and perpetuall practise of the prima∣tiue Church; or else acknowledge with vs that Princes for trueth did & might commaund Bishoppes and preuent and punish in them as well errors in fayth as other ecclesiasticall crimes and disorders.

Phi.

All this I may graunt, and yet your supremacie will not followe.

Theo.

Neuer tell vs what you may doe, but what you will doe. Deny the premisses if you dare: or the consequent, if you can.

Phi.

I graunt Princes may commaunde Bishoppes, but not what they list; which is your opinion.

Theo.

* 2.369If you may bee the reporter of our doctrines wee shall defende many mad positions, leaue your malitious and odious slaunders, wee maintaine no such opinion.

Phi.

What doe you then?

Theo.

If you did not range thus besides all order and trueth, you should perceiue what wee doe: but when wee come to conclude, you slide from the matter and fall to your wonted outfacing and wrangling.

Phi.

Doe I not answere directly to that which you aske?

Theo.

For a while you doe, but when we come to touch the quicke, you start aside and busie the reader with other quarrels. Forbeare that till wee come to the sifting of your absurdities, and then take your fill. In the meane time suffer vs to say what we defend, and to know what you assent vnto, that the difference betwixt our opinions may be rightly conceiued, and the proofes of either part duely considered.

Phi.

With a good will.

Theo.

* 2.370Doe you then 〈◊〉〈◊〉 for a matter fully proued that auncient kings and Christian Emperours 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••••••maund for trueth, as well Priest as people; and that they chiefly did, and iu••••ly might enterpose their royall power and care for the reformation and correction of errours in fayth, abuses in discipline, disorders in life, and all other ecclesiasticall enormities, as appeareth plainely by the publike lawes and acts of Constantine, Theodosius, Iustinian, Charles, Lodouike, Lotharius and other no lesse Godly than worthie Gouernours? If the places which I haue brought import not so much, refell the particulars, I will be of your mind: if they doe, why stande you so doubtfull as lothe to con∣fesse, and yet not able to gainesay the proofes?

Phi.

For trueth I knowe Princes haue commaunded as well Bishops, as others, and vy their Princely power established and preserued the faith and Canons of Christes Church.

Theo.

And this the sacred Scriptures, the learned fathers, the stories ecclesiasticall, the lawes and monuments of Catho∣like Princes in the primatiue church of Christ for eight hundred and fiftie yeres doe fairely warrant.* 2.371

Phi.

They do.

Theo.

And the places that proue this, are both innumerable and inexpugnable?

Phi.

The proofes for this point bee pregnant euough.

Theo.

And this is no way repugnant to probabilitie, possibilitie, reason or nature?

Phi.

It is not.

Theo.

You will not eate these words when you come to the purpose?

Phi.

I will not.

Theo.

And if you were to bee sworne on a booke, doe you beleeue in your conscience this which you say to bee true?

Phi.

I doe.

Theo.

Then here I will stay.

Phi.

Haue I not answered directly to your questions?

Theo.

You haue; and wee vrge you no farther.

Phi.

What are you the nearer?

Theo.

That shall you now see. You make shamefull outcries at the power which we giue to Princes to be supreme Gouernours of their Realmes in al thinges and causes, as wel ecclesiastical as temporal,* 2.372 as A thing improbable, vnreasonable, vnnatu∣rall, impossible, reproueable by all diuine and humane learning, which neuer king, much lesse Queene Christian nor heathen, Catholike nor heretike in this Realme, or in all the worlde besides, before our age did chalenge, or accept: You heape authorities and absurdities,* 2.373 and terrifie the simple with woordes and crakes of the largest life, as if the doctrine were so barbarous and monsterous that heathen and pro∣phane men would abhorre it; and when the bottom of your skil is seene and the pride of your tongues spent, notwithstanding your often and ioyly profers, you neuer so much as come neere the question.

Phi.

Will you make vs beleeue that?

Theo.

Marke the points that wee teach, and see howe wide you bee from refuting that which wee defend. Wee say Princes onely be Gouernours, that is, higher powers ordayned of God and bearing the sword with lawful and publike authoritie to command for trueth;* 2.374 to prohibite and with the sword punish errors and al other ecclesiastical disorders as well as temporall, within their Realmes. This wee proue, this you graunt to bee good and sound doctrine. Of this then there is no question betwixt vs.

Secondly, wee teach, that as all their subiects, Bishoppes and others must obey them commanding that which is good in matters of religion, and endure them with patience when they take part with error, so they, their Scepters and swordes bee not subiect to the Popes tribunall, neither hath he by the lawe of God,* 2.375 or by the Canons of the Church any power or preeminence to reuerse their doings and depose their persons, but this is a wicked and arrogant vsur∣pation lately crept into the West partes of Europe since the Bishops of Rome exalted themselues aboue all that is called God; and for this cause we confesse Princes within their owne regiments to bee SVPREME, that is not vnder the Popes iurisdiction, neither to bee commaunded, nor displaced at his plea∣sure, but to bee reserued to the righteous and Soueraigne iudgement of God, who will syncerely iudge and seuerely punish both Popes and Princes if they bolster or suffer any kind of Impietie within their dominions.

This is the very point that is in question betwixt vs,* 2.376 of which in your whole Apologie you speake not one woord, but cunningly shift your handes of it, knowing your selues not able to iustifie your wicked assertion. And lest the reader should distrust your silence in that behalfe, you followe the woorde su∣preme with huy and crie, as if God were highly dishonoured and the Church of Christ robbed of her right and inheritance, because the Pope may not set his feete in Princes neckes and be Lord Paramount of all earthly states and kingdomes.

Phi.

Doe wee mistake your meaning, or doe you rather pull in your hornes, when you see your selues compassed round with so many grolie and

sensible absurdities?* 2.377

Theo.

What one inconuenience can you fasten on vs for teaching this doctrine?

Phi.

A thousand.

Theo.

You bee better at craking than concluding. Proue but one and spare the rest.

Phi.

This Soueraigntie giueth power to the Queene to conferre that to others (as to the Priestes and Bishops, to preach, minister Sacraments, haue cure of soules, and such like) which shee neither hath, nor can haue nor doe, her selfe. It giueth her that may neither preach nor speake in publike of matters of religion, to do that which is much more, euen to prescribe by her selfe or her deputies or Lawes autho∣rised onely by her, to the preachers what to preach, which way to worship and serue God, howe and in what forme to minister the Sacraments, to punish and depriue, teach and correct them, and generally to prescribe and appoint which way shee will bee gouerned in soule.

* 2.378It maketh the body aboue the soule, the temporall regiment aboue the spiritual, the earthly kingdom•• aboue Christs body mysticall. It maketh the sheepe aboue the Pastor: It giueth her power to command them, whom and wherein she is bound to obey: It gi∣ueth power to the subiect to be iudge of the Iudges, yea and of God himselfe, as S. Cy∣prian speaketh:* 2.379 It maketh her free from Ecclesiasticall discipline, from which no true child of Gods familie is exempted.

* 2.380It derogateth from Christes Priesthoode, which both in his owne person, and in the Church, is aboue his kingly dignitie. It diuideth (which is a matter of much im∣portance) the state of the Catholike Church and the holy communion or societie of all Christian men in the same,* 2.381 into as many partes not communicant one with on o∣ther, nor holding one of an other, as there bee worldly kingdomes differing by cu∣stomes, Lawes and manners, eche from other, which is of most pernitious se∣quele, and against the very natiue qualitie of the most perfect coniunction, socie∣tie, vnitie, and entercourse of the whole Church and euery Prouince and person thereof together. It openeth the gappe to all kinde of diuisions, schismes, sectes & disorders.

* 2.382It maketh all Christian Bishops, Priestes, and what other soeuer borne out of the Realme, forainers and vsurpers in all iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall towardes vs: & there can bee no iurisdiction ouer English mens soules, but prooceeding and depending of her soueraigne right therein. Which is directly against Christes expresse commaunde∣ment and commission giuen to Peter first, and then to all the Apostles of preaching, baptizing, remitting, retayning, binding and loosing, ouer all the worlde, without diffe∣rence of temporall state, or dependance of any mortall Prince therein.

* 2.383It keepeth the Realme from obedience to generall Councels, which haue beene or shalbe gathered in forraine Countries. It taketh away al conuenient meanes of gathe∣ring, holding, or executing any 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Councels and their decrees, as appeared by refu∣sing to come to the late Councell of Trent, notwithstanding the Popes messengers, & letters of other great Princes, which requested and inuited them to the same. When a Realme or Prince is in error, it taketh away all meanes of reducing them to the trueth againe: no subiection being acknowledged to Councels or Tribunals abroad, all other Bishoppes, Patriarkes, Apostles, Christ and all (because they were and

bee forrainers) not hauing iurisdiction nor sufficient authoritie to define against English Sectaries and errors. Finally if this iurisdiction spirituall bee alwaies of right a sequele of the Crowne and scepter of all Kings, assuredly Christ nor none of his Apostles could otherwise enter to conuert Countries, preach, and exercise iu∣risdiction spirituall, without Caesars and others the Kinges of the Countries licence and delegation.

Theo.

Upon what part of our doctrine inferre you these absurdities?

Phi.

Upon the supremacie wherewith you flatter Princes. For all these thinges be consequent to the princes ecclesiasticall soueraigntie.

Theo.

You must tell vs howe.* 2.384

Phi.

See you not that?

Theo.

Surely not I. There bee two partes of our assertion as I shewed you before: the first auouching that Princes may commaunde for trueth and abolish errour: the next that Princes bee supreme, that is, not subiect to the Popes iudiciall processe to bee cited, suspended, deposed at his becke: Upon one of these twayne, if you reason against vs, must your absurdities bee grounded.

The first you can not impugne,* 2.385 but you must therewith impugne the Scriptures, the best and most famous Princes of Christendome, the Church of God it selfe, which for eight hundred yeeres and vpwarde embraced and obeyed the Lawes and Edicts of religious Princes commaunding for truth. And if you thinke you may say and vnsay with a breath, and refell that now as absurd which I before proued and you yeelded to bee sounde and good doctrine, take either of our positions rightly vnderstoode for your antece∣dent, and marke howe ioyntlesse and senselesse the sequeles bee, that you set downe for ineuitable consequents.

When Princes commaunde for trueth,* 2.386 it is euident they commaund the selfe same thing that God commaundeth, or rather as S. Augustine plain∣ly declareth God himselfe commaundeth by their heartes, that are in his handes, the thinges which no man shoulde refuse. Emperours, saith hee, commaund the selfe same thing that Christ commaundeth: for when they commaund that which is good, it is Christ and no man els that comman∣deth by them. Againe, Marke, sayth hee, with howe manifest trueth God himselfe speaketh by the Princes heart which is in his hande, euen in this lawe, which you complaine to bee made against you. And therefore hee concludeth,* 2.387 when Princes commaund for trueth, Whosoeuer neglecteth (their commaundement) shall haue no part with God for not doing that which TRVETH BY THE KINGS HEART COMMAVNDED HIM TO DOE.

If you build your absurdities vpon the first part of our doctrine, then must you thus conclude. When God commandeth by the Princes heart, that which is good in matters of religion, The bodie is aboue the soule, the sheepe aboue the Pa∣stor, the subiect is iudge of the Iudges, yea of God himselfe, and consequently, Nei∣ther Christ, neither any of his Apostles could enter to conuert Countries, preach and

exercise iurisdiction spirituall without Caesars licence and delegation. Well, your Rhetorike may beguile fooles, sure your Logike will neuer enforce wise men to regard your conclusions.

Phi.

Wee make no such arguments.

Theo.

You must make these or worse. The first part of our assertion is that Princes bee Gods seruants and ministers appointed to beare the sword with full commission to command what God commandeth, and to prohibite what God prohibiteth as well in matters pertayning to religion as Ciuill iustice.* 2.388 You inferre vpon vs that wee make The body aboue the soule, the temporall regiment aboue the spirituall, the earthly kingdome aboue Christes body mysticall, the sheepe aboue the Pastor, the subiect to bee iudge of the Iudges, yea of God himselfe, with many like childish and friuolous consequents. Let your owne fauourers bee iudges in this case, whether we be absurd in affirming that we doe, or you more absurd in refelling vs as you doe.

* 2.389If it be no absurditie with you for princes to command that which the Pope appointeth them, as your selues defend, that is your opinion; what inconueni∣ence can it bee for Princes to commaunde that which Christ the Soueraigne Lorde and head of the Church commaundeth: which is all the power that wee giue to Princes, notwithstanding your fayned and false reports in this slaunde∣rous libell of yours to the contrarie?

Phi.

* 2.390Wee neuer denyed but Princes might commaund that which God commaundeth; and in so doing they be rather to be commended for their pietie than to be charged with any absurditie.

Theo.

And wee neuer affirmed that Princes might commaund that which God forbiddeth, or prohibite that which God commandeth. And therefore you must seeke out some others whome you may persue with your absurdities, they touch no part of our doctrine.

Phi.

They shewe what an absurd thing it is for temporall Princes to cha∣lenge supreme power ouer Christes Church in causes of religion.

Theo.

If you take the word supreme, as it euer was and is defended by vs, to make Prin∣ces free from the wrongfull and vsurped iurisdiction which the Pope claimeth ouer them,* 2.391 your illations haue as litle strength and trueth as the former: for what fond and vntoward reasons bee these? If the Pope may not depose Prin∣ces and discharge their subiects from all obedience, ergo we giue Power to the Queene to prescribe to the Preachers what to preach, which way to worshippe and serue God, howe and in what forme to minister the Sacraments, to punish and depriue, teach and correct them, and generally to prescribe and appoint which way shee will bee gouerned in soule: ergo, wee make her free from ecclesiasticall discipline, wee derogate from Christes Priesthoode, and open the gap to all kinde of diuisions, schismes, sectes and disorders: ergo, there can bee no iurisdiction ouer English mens soules but proceeding and depending of her: wee keepe the Realme from obedience to ge∣nerall Councels, and take away all meanes of reducing the Realme and Prince, when they bee in error, to the trueth againe, with many such loose and vnsauo∣ry sequences.

Phi.

If the Prince be supreme,* 2.392 she may doe what she list in all matters of religion and Ecclesiasticall regiment, and so these absurdities follow very di∣rectly vpon that assertion of yours.

Theo.

That Princes may do what they list in matters of religion and the regiment of the Church, is neither coherent nor consequent to our opinion, but a wicked and wylie pretence of yours, to cause men that can not so wel discerne of your sophismes to distrust our doctrine as false and absurde, and in the meane time to conuey your selues awaie as it were in a mist vnespied. And as for the wordes supreme gouernour, which you wring and wrest to that purpose, take the true construction of them, as the oth importeth and we professe them, and infer duly but one of your absurdities vp∣on them, we yeeld you the rest.

Phi.

What, not one?

Theo.

No, not one, des∣cend to the specialties when you will.

Phi.

It giueth power to the Queene to conferre that to others,* 2.393 which she neither hath, nor can haue, nor doe her selfe, as to the Priestes and Bishops to preach, mini∣ster the Sacramentes, haue cure of soules, and such like.

Theo.

It giueth no such power to the Queene as you speake of. Bishoppes haue their authoritie to preach and minister the Sacramentes, not from the Prince, but from Christ himselfe.* 2.394 Goe teach all nations, baptising them, & so forth; onely the Prince giueth them publike libertie without let or distur∣bance to do that which Christ commaundeth. If you see no difference between the commission which Christ giueth vnto Bishops,* 2.395 and the permission where∣by Princes suffer and incite them with peace and praise to doe their duties, your learning is not so great as you would make the world beleeue it is. For what a foolish collection is this, The Prince permitteth those that are sent of Christ to preach and administer the Sacramentes, ergo the Prince conferreth that power or function to them? You might as well conclude, The Prince per∣mitteth men to liue & breath, ergo the Prince conferreth life and breath to thē. Or, the Prince permitteth her Subiectes to beleeue in God and relieue ech o∣thers, ergo the Prince conferreth faith and charitie to them.

Phi.

It giueth her to do that which is more, euen to prescribe by her selfe, or her deputies,* 2.396 or lawes authorised onely by her selfe, which waie to worship and serue God, how and in what forme to minister the Sacramentes, to punish and depriue, teach and correct them, and generally to prescribe and appoint which waie she will be gouerned in soule.* 2.397

Theo.

That Princes may prescribe what faith they list, what seruice of God they please, what forme of administring the Sacraments they thinke best, is no part of our thought, nor point of our doctrine: And yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the christian faith to be preached, the right seruice of God in spirit and truth to be vsed, the Sacraments to be ministred according to the Lords institution, this is no absurditie in vs to defend, but impietie ra∣ther in you to withstande. And that Princes may punish both Bishoppes and others for heresie, dissention and all kinde of iniquitie, by banishing and commaunding them to bee remoued from their Churches, which you call

depriuing, cā not now be coūted absurd, vnlesse you reiect y^e stories of the church and lawes of christian Princes, which I before cited, as absurd. For there shall you finde that Emperours by their Lawes and Edictes haue commaunded Bishops to be iudicially depriued by other bishops & actually displaced by their temporal Magistrates, as well for erronious teaching as vicious liuing.

Phi.

* 2.398When you giue princes supreme power in matters of religion, you giue thē leaue to do what they lift.

The.

If you affirm that of vs, your report is vtter∣ly vntrue: if you infer it vpon vs, your reason is very ridiculous. For what a fond illation is this? Princes be supreme, that is not subiect to the Popes iurisdictiō, ergo princes may lawfully do what they wil.

Phi.

We say not lawfully, but if there be none to cōtrole thē, none can let thē to do what they list.

The.

The dread¦ful iudgements of God, not the leud practises of Popes must bridle Princes frō doing euill; If they feare not a reuenger in heauen, whom they can not escape; they will neuer regard a conspirator in earth, whom they may soone preuent: & yet we dispute not what tyrāts de facto wil do, but what godly Princes of dutie should, of right may do. This is it that we seek for, & therfore you must conclude this or nothing.

Phi.

You giue thē authority to make lawes & punish for religion without anie mētion of truth or error.* 2.399

The.

The oth expresseth not their duty to God, but ours to thē, & as they must be obeied whē they ioin with truth, so must they be endured whē they fal into error, which side soeuer they take, either obediēce to their wils, or submissiō to their swords is their due by Gods law, & that is al which our oth exacteth. And yet when we professe thē to be gouernors, that word restraineeh thē from their own lusts, & referreth thē to Gods ordināce. For they which resist God, impugn the truth, oppresse the righteous, assist error & fauor impietie, be no gouernors vnder God as all princes oughtto bee, but tyrantes against God; not bearers but wilful abusers of the sword which God hath appointed for the pu∣nishment of euill doers and for the praise of them that do well.

And this, though it be not expressed, yet is it euer imploied in the very scepters, swords & thrones of princes. For dominiō, power & maiesty belōg of right to god alone & are by him imparted to Princes,* 2.400 w^t this condition & to this end that they shold raign vnder him not ouer him, cōmand for him not against him, be honored & obeied after him not before him; & therefore this quarrell sauoreth not of igno∣rance but of malice, when you say we giue Princes power to do what they wil in matters pertaining to God & his seruice. We reiect & detest that sinful as∣sertion more than you do. In deede we say that the Pope may not pull Princes crownes frō their heads, nor seeke to master them with contriuing rebellions & treasons against them, whiles hee pretendeth to depose them. In this onely sense wee defende them to bee supreme, that is not at libertie to do what they lift, without regard of truth or right, but without superiour on earth to re∣presse them with violent meanes and to take their kingdomes from them.

Phi.

* 2.401It maketh the bodie aboue the soule, the temporall regiment aboue the spi∣rituall, the earthly kingdom aboue Christes mysticall bodie. It maketh the sheepe aboue

the Pastour; it giueth her power to commaund them, whom & wherein she is bound to obey. It giueth power to the subiect to be iudge of the iudges, yea & of God himselfe, as S. Cyprian speaketh.* 2.402

Theo.

I am loth to bring you out of loue with your owne conceits, other∣wise I neuer saw more boldnes & lesse soundnes in any man. If we did preferre earthly things before heauenly, you might iustly charge vs that we set the body aboue the soule: but betweene Princes & Priests that comparison is foolish, ex∣cept you thinke Priests to be without bodies, & Princes without soules, which were a mery deuise.

The spirituall regiment which Christ hath ouer the faithfull in his Church is infinitely before the temporal regiment of Princes ouer their subiects.* 2.403 But if by this you would inferre that good Princes may not punish euill Priestes, you deface godlinesse and trueth in Princes as temporall, and exact wicked∣nesse and error in Priestes as spirituall, which is more than absurde.

As for the right functions of Preachers and Princes,* 2.404 if that bee the mat∣ter you speake of, for you speake so doubtfully that wee can gather no cer∣taintie what you meane, know you that as in spiritual perfection and consola∣tion the Preacher excelleth the Prince by many decrees, God hauing appoin∣ted Preachers not Princes to bee the sowers of his seede, messenges of his grace, stewardes of his mysteries: so for externall power and authoritie to compell & punish, which is the point that we stande on, God hath preferred the Prince before the Priest, so long as the Prince commaundeth that which God alloweth.* 2.405 And in this case, wee make not temporall aboue spirituall, as you tricke it with termes: but auouch that the same God, who teacheth the simple and leadeth the willing by the Preachers mouth; driueth the negli∣gent, and forceth the froward by the Princes sword, which himselfe, that is a * 2.406 spirit and * 2.407 the father of spirites, hath ordained to that end.

The mystical bodie of Christ which is his church, containeth not only Prists & bishops but all the faithfull, & in heauenly graces & inward vertues far excee∣deth all earthly kingdomes, and yet hath God himselfe authorized the sword on earth in Princes handes to be keepers of his truth and clensers of his Church, that is with lawfull force to remoue such as impugne the faith, and with publik authorit•• to punish those that defile the Church of God with their shamelesse manners, be they Priestes or People; and this doth not place earthly king∣domes aboue the Church, but prepare them as aydes and defences for the Church, which is the right end of all earthly States, & was the first cause why God erected them.

Though the sheepe may not rule their sheepeheards,* 2.408 yet giue them leaue to discerne strangers and flie from theeues and murderers, and giue the great and * 2.409 Archpastor that is in heauen leaue to gard his flock not only with watch∣men but also with armed men, that if the greedinesse and hardinesse of the wolues bee such that they feare not the clamours of Preachers, at least they may shrinke for the terrours of Princes. And this is no such absurditie as you

make it,* 2.410 that Princes should serue the true sheepeheard, Christ Iesus, by tur∣ning their swords against those raueners and spoylers which vnder the colour & shew of feeding would kill the fattest, and gorge themselues with the fairest of Christes flocke: Yea Princes in their sort be sheepeheardes as well as Bishops; in that they beare the sword vnder God, to compell and punish such as the gen∣tle perswasion of the Preacher can not moue; and for that cause God said to Dauid, Thou shalt feede my people Israell: and Dauid maketh this report of himselfe, So he fed them according to the simplicitie of his hart, and gui∣ded them by the discretion of his handes.

* 2.411As Princes are bound to heare preachers directing them vnto truth because the wordes of God are in their mouthes, and hee that despiseth those thinges despiseth not mā but God: so likewise are Preachers bound to obey Princes commanding for truth, & who so neglecteth (that commandement of theirs) shall haue no part with God, for not doing that which trueth by the kinges hart commanded him. And the Princes obedience to be due not to Preachers persons or pleasures, but their message deliuered them by God the Lord & Ru∣ler of all Princes, appeareth by this, that Princes may lawfully punish the preachers if they falsifie the word of truth, or shame their calling with their dis∣ordered liuing.

* 2.412That Princes be iudges of Religion we neuer said it nor thought it, much lesse that they be iudges of God himselfe; this argueth rather your impudencie in reporting than our ignorance in not affirming it. Gods name be blessed we know what difference there is and ought to be betweene God and man as well as you: but such is the badnesse of your cause, and blindnesse of your harts, that you must and will rather childishly quarrell and wittingly belie the truth, than come to a faire and euen triall.

* 2.413S. Cyprian hath some such wordes, but no such meaning as you alleage. He saith when a Bishop is orderly chosen in any Church, he that After the di∣uine (allowance or) iudgement, after the suffrages of the people, after the consent (and liking) of other Bishops, erecteth a second in the same Church against him, maketh himselfe now the Controler and Iudge not of the Bishop, but of God, which wee beleeue to be verie true; but how doth this proue that Christiā magistrates may not displace wicked and vnworthy Bishops for their iustes desertes, which is our question?

And as Cyprian in his sense is not againste vs, so Cyprian in our case is cleare against you.* 2.414 For when as yet there were no Princes Chri∣stened, that with publike authoritie might remoue vngodly Bishoppes, Cyprian assureth vs that the people might lawfully seuer them-selues from a wicked Bishoppe and elect an other. His words bee these: Therefore the (flocke or) people obeying the Lordes preceptes, and fearing God, ought to separate themselues from a sinfull Bishop, and not to participate with the sacrifices of a sacrilegious Priest, whereas they chiefly haue power to chose worthy Bishops, and to reiect vnworthie, perswading and incou∣raging

the people to goe forwarde in that their attempt, notwithstanding the Bishop of Rome tooke stitch with the partie deposed, and wrote letters for his restitution; of the which Cyprian maketh no great account, as you may see by his words that follow.* 2.415 Neither is (the Bishop of Rome) so much to be blamed that was deceiued through negligence, as this man to be detested that fraudulently deceiued him. And though Basilides coulde circumuent men, yet can he not beguile God.

Phi.

It maketh her free from Ecclesiasticall discipline, from which no true childe of Gods familie is exempted.

Theo.

It maketh her free from the Popes Buls and decretals, but not from the Lawes and Precepts of Christ, which is the true discipline of Gods children. Touching the regiment of their owne persons and liues Princes owe the verie same reuerence and obedience to the word and Sacraments that euerie priuate man doth: and if any Prince would be baptised, or approach to the Lords table with manifest shew of vnbeliefe or irrepentance, the minister is bound freely to speake, and rather to lay downe his life at the Princes feete, than to let the king of Kings be prouoked, the mysteries defiled, his owne soule and the Princes indangered, for lacke of often and earnest admonition.

Phi.

I am glad you graunt that Princes may be excommunicated: for that proueth Priestes to be their superiours and ouerthroweth quite their suprema∣cie.

Theo.

You reason very profoundly. The seruants of God may not receiue any mortall man to the diuine mysteries except he bring with him a right faith in God & an inwarde sorrowe for his former sinnes, ergo the Pope may depose Princes, & set their subiectes in open fielde against them to thrust them from their thrones.

Phi.

We reason not so, but we say, Priestes may excommunicate Princes, ergo they be superiours to Princes.

Theo.

I speake of not admitting Prin∣ces to the Sacramentes, but with those conditions that God requireth of all Christian men without respect of States or persons, and you by and by leape to excommunication,* 2.416 which word you egerly sease on, not for any meaning you haue to guide Princes right lest they prouoke the wrath of God to their euerla∣sting destruction by the contempt of his graces, but for a cunning to defeate them of their crownes by your indirect and vngodly deuises. For first you wil excōmunicate them; that is you wil haue no cōmunion with them in anie thing spiritual or tēporal; next you descend from not cōmunicating with thē, to not obeying them; & lastly from not obeying, to open rebelling against them, & placing others in their steedes. And thus when Princes displease you, you ne∣uer leaue them till with this wreath of excommunication, you wring their Scepters out of their handes. But if you looke better about you, you shall finde great difference between not deliuering them the sacred mysteries of God except they repent and beleeue the Gospell, and your diuelish conspiracie to deny them all obedience, & with armed violence to take their swords from them: but thereof more hereafter.

In the meane time your argument is very foolish: Priestes must not deli∣uer the Sacramentes but on such conditions as God hath limited, ergo Priests be superiour to Princes. You might haue concluded, ergo God is superiour to them both, in that he prescribeth how the one shal deliuer & the other take the Seales of his grace: but for the Priest no such illation can be made. For were you Porter in any Princes palace, and commaunded that no man Noble nor o∣ther shoulde enter the Court with weapon, woulde you thence conclude your selfe superiour to all the Nobles and counsellours of the Land,* 2.417 because you might not suffer thē to come within the gates, except they first lay their swords aside; or would you rather excuse your selfe, that the Princes precept being streit and you a seruaunt, you could not choose but do your dutie, and put them in minde of your Lord and masters pleasure.

Phi.

Our case is not like.

The.

You say truth. You haue not so much reason to make Priestes superiour to Princes, as this Officer hath to prefer himselfe before all other persons. Princes haue soueraign power ouer the goods, liues & bodies of Priestes, Nobles haue not ouer the meanest attendant in the Prin∣ces Court: Princes must be obeyed or endured with meekenesse and reuerence offer they neuer so hard dealing to their Preachers and Pastours:* 2.418 That sub∣mission no man oweth to any subiect be he neuer so Noble. And therefore euerie seruant in the Princes house, hath better cause to aduance himselfe before al the Nobles of the Realme, than you haue to set the Priest aboue the Prince whom God himselfe hath pronounced superiour to the Priestes, and to whom he will haue euerie soule, bee they Monkes, Priestes, or Bishoppes, to be subiect with al submission & duetie: Much lesse is this a warrant for you to depose Princes, and to pursue them with armes against the preceptes of God, against the gene∣rall and continuall obedience and order of Christs Church, as you shal perceiue in place where: for this present go on with your absurd lies, I shoulde haue said absurdities.

Phi.

It derogateth from Christes Priesthood which both in his owne person, and in the Church is aboue his kingly dignitie.* 2.419

Theo.

Call you this a derogation from Christes Priesthood,* 2.420 if the Pope may not tread Princes vnder his feet? Your Seminaries must needes be fa∣mous that coine vs such conclusions.

Phi.

Neuer mocke at our Seminaries, you shall finde them too well furnished for your stoare.

Theo.

So wee thinke, your learning is so strange, it passeth our intelligence. Wee fooles conceiue not how these thinges hang togither.

For first what meane you by this; The Priesthood of Christ in his owne person, is aboue his kingly dignitie?* 2.421 He is king of glorie in that he is the sonne of God; can you name any thing in Christ that is aboue his diuine dignitie? Your doctrine is verie curious if it be not dangerous. The glorie of the sonne of God, as hee is owner and ruler of all thinges in heauen and earth, hath no title nor name aboue it. As a Priest he purged our sinnes in humilitie: as a king hee nowe doeth and euer shall raigne in the highest degree of celestiall and euer∣lasting

glorie. His Priesthood washed our vncleannesse in this life. His kingdome placeth and preserueth men and Angels in perfect and eternall blisse.

If you speake this in respect of vs, that the Priesthood of Christ which wash∣eth our sinnes, and saueth vs from the wrath to come; is more comfortable and accceptable to our weake consciences, by reason of our guiltinesse and dai∣ly transgressions, than the power wherewith hee subdueth his enemies, be∣sides the straungenesse of your speach that his Priestood should bee aboue his kinglie dignitie in his owne person: note the losenesse of your argument. The Priesthood of Christ in fauour and mercie to vs ward is aboue his power, er∣go the Prince must be subiect to the Pope. May not we much rather conclude; Christ cōpelleth & punisheth as a king, not as a Priest, ergo power to commaund & punish belongeth to the kingdom & not to the Priesthood, that is to the Magi∣strate, not to the minister.

Phi.

It diuideth (which is a matter of much importance) the state of the Catho∣like Church and the holie communion or societie of all Christian men in the same,* 2.422 into as manie partes not communicant one with an other nor holding one of an other, as there be worldlie kingdoms differing by Customs, Lawes & manners, ech from other: which is of much pernicious sequele, and against the verie natiue quality of the most perfect coniunction, society, vnitie and intercourse of the whole Church & euery Prouince and Person thereof togither.

Theo.

It is a most pernicious fansie to thinke the communion of Christes Church dependeth vpon the Popes person or regimēt,* 2.423 and that diuerse nations and countries differing by customes, lawes & maners (so they hold one & the same rule of faith in the band of peace) can not be parts of the Catholike Church com∣municant one with an other, & perfectly vnited in spirite and truth ech to other: And fie on your follies that racke your Creede & rob Christ of his honor and the Church of all her comfort and securitie whiles you make the vnitie and societie of Christes members to consist in obedience to the Bishop of Rome and not in coherence with the sonne of God.

The communion of Saintes, and neere dependaunce of the Godly ech of other and all of their heade standeth not of externall rites,* 2.424 customes and manners, as you woulde fashion out a Church obseruing the Popes Ca∣nons and deseruing his pardones as his deuote and zealous children: but in beleeuing the same trueth,* 2.425 tasting of the same grace, resting on the same hope, calling on the same God, reioycing in the same spirite, whereby they bee sealed, sanctified and preserued against the daie of redemption. And why may not Christians in all kingdomes & countries haue this communion and fellowshippe though they lacke your holy fathers beads,* 2.426 blessinges and such like bables?

To what ende you alleadge S. Augustine in that place which you quote, we cannot so much as coniecture; you must speake plainly what you would haue, we be not bounde to make search for your meaning. As for the commu∣nion

of the Catholike Church, it is not broken by the varietie and diuersitie of rites, customes, Lawes and fashions, which many places and Countries haue different ech from others, except they be repugnant to faith or good manners, as S. Augustine largely debateth in his epistle to Ianuarius;* 2.427 and Irineus, whē the bishop of Rome would haue cut the East Churches from the communion of the West, for obseruing Easter after an other maner & order than their brethrē did, sharpely reproued him and shewed him, that Polycarpus and Anicetus dis∣senting in the same case Communionem inter se habuerunt, were, this notwith∣standing, ioyned in communion;* 2.428 & pacem in vniuersa Ecclesia tum seruantes tum non seruantes retinuerunt,* 2.429 and both sides kept the band of peace in the Catholike Church.

For the discrepant obseruation of fasting before Easter he saith the like:* 2.430 Alij vnum sibi diem ieiunandum esse putant, alij duos, alij plures, alij quadraginta horas. Nihilo minus tamen omnes illi pacem inter se retinuerunt & retinemus etiamnū, & dissonantia ieiunij fidei concordiam commendat. Some fast one daie, some two dayes, some more, some fourtie houres: and yet all these continued in peace among themselues, and to this day we continue the same, and our difference in fas••••••g commendeth our concord in faith.

* 2.431Socrates hath a whole chapter purposely made to shew what diuersitie there was in the Church of Christ about Lent, the Lordes Supper, marying, bapti∣zing, praying, fasting and such like Ecclesiasticall obseruances, and yet all those places and countries parts of the Catholik Church and communicant one with an other in Christian peace and vnitie.* 2.432 Operosum & molestum fuerit imò impos∣sibile, omnes ecclesiarum quae per ciuitates & regiones sunt ritus conscribere. It were an hard and laborious thing, saith he, yea an impossible, to write al (the dif∣ferent customes and) manners of the Churches in euerie citie and countrie. Qui eiusdem sunt fidei de ritibus inter se dissentiunt.* 2.433 They that are of the same faith, differ in their rites. So that this is no breach of the Christian and Ca∣tholike communion which all the faithfull ought to keepe among themselues & with their head, the author and finisher of their faith.* 2.434

Phi.

* 2.435It openeth the gappe to all kinde of diuisions, schismes, sectes and disorders.

Theo.

Why so? Because your holy father can not marchandize the soules & empt the purses of men as he was wont to do? What Sectes, Schismes, dis∣orders or heresies can there arise if we defend it lawfull for Princes to commād for truth within their own Realmes? Nay rather hath not the subiecting of Princes to the Popes pride wrought the vtter ruine and decaie of the West Church?* 2.436 Where Rulers be many it is easie to finde some good, and they wil resist that which is euill, and reforme that which is amisse: where one ruleth al, if he fal as he quickly may, he draweth the whole Church into the same danger and error with him.

Phi.

But the successour of Peter can not erre, and therefore the Church is safest when it is ruled by him, for whose faith Christ praied that it might not faile.

Theo.

Proue that the Pope can not erre, and we will graunt not onely

this but all your religion besides to be true.

Phi.

What, you wil not?

Theo.

The word is spoken, accept the condition when you list. Till you do we prefer Cy∣prians iudgement before yours:* 2.437 Therefore deare brother, saith he writing to Stephanus Bishop of Rome, is there a plentifull number of Priestes (in the church) ioyned togither with the knot of mutuall concorde and bande of peace, that if any of our companie make a breach, and rent and wast the the flocke of Christ, the rest should helpe, and as profitable and pitifull Pa∣stours reduce the Lordes sheepe to the flocke againe. The number of Ru∣lers in his opinon is no cause of sectes and dissentions, but rather a remedie pro∣uided in the Church against disorder and heresie.

Phi.

It maketh all Christian Bishops,* 2.438 Priestes and whatsoeuer borne out of the Realme forrainers and vsurpers in all iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall towardes vs, & that there can be no iurisdiction ouer English-mens soules, but proceeding and depending of her soueraigne right therein.

Theo.

Your force is almost spent, when you come to these frozen and wood∣den obiections. Wee call those that were borne and liue out of the Realme forrainers. What else should wee call them? And such as pretend Peters keies to dispose crownes and remoue Princes from their seates, ioyning rebellion with remission of sinnes, we thinke them vsurpers and abusers of Ecclesiastical iurisdiction.* 2.439 A maruelous ouersight in deed. We might haue spared you some sharper and quicker termes; but by these wee thought good to manifest to the world, your iniurious and irreligious drift to be masters of earthly kingdomes, by winding and turning Peters keies at your pleasure.

Phi.

Your words exclude Christ & his Apostles, (in as much as they were and be forrainers) from hauing any iurisdiction ouer England.

Theo.

It is pitie you can not cauil.* 2.440 We striue for iudicial authoritie to depriue Princes, you vrge vs with Apostolike power to preach the Gospell and remit sinnes: Wee speake of that which is at this present, you tell vs what was fifteene hundred yeares since: We reason of States in earth, you run to Saints in heauen: We reiect the Bishop of Rome, you wrangle with vs as though wee refused the sonne of God. Doth not matter faile you, when you flie for helpe to such vnsauo∣ry toies?

Phi.

Your oth is so absurdly conceiued, that though you ment not to exclude Christ and his Apostles, yet in wordes you doe. For if No forraine person, Prelat, State, nor Potentate hath nor ought to haue any iurisdiction, power, superiority, preeminence, or authority ecclesiasticall or spiritual within this Realme of England, surely neither Christ nor his Apostles (because they were & be forrainers) haue or ought to haue any.

Theo.

Not our speaking, but your wresting and wrenching of our wordes is far fet & most absurd. For first where you auouch Christ himself to be a forrainer whō we acknowledge to be the right inheritor & owner of the whole worlde, yea the mighty Lord & king of heauen & earth;* 2.441 in gibing at vs, you iest on his birth; as if Christ were a forrainer to the Gentiles because he tooke flesh among the Iewes. And though you might haue

tak••n some aduantage at his cradle, yet you should haue remembred, that the Creator is no forrainer to the worke of his handes, as likewise the heade is not to the members, nor God incarnate to the sonnes of men.

* 2.442As for his Apostles in deede whiles they liued on earth, they were forrainers: but that their spirits now present with God & raigning in blisse with Christ, bee forrainers, is a mad speech of yours, no meaning of ours. You must send vs word from Rhemes how soules can be French, Spanish, Scottish, or English: These w^t vs be distinctions of coūtries not of souls, & after death til your new doctrine came wee tooke them to cease: With a little helpe I thinke you will make vs some men soules and some women soules, you be so skilfull in these conceites.

* 2.443Againe, might the soules in heauen be called or counted forrainers, you must tell vs what ecclesiasticall power & authoritie they now exercise on earth. We do not affirme that forrainers neuer had any such power in England, the Apo∣stles had their commission from Christ to teach and baptise all nations without exceptiō, but we say none hath at this present, nor ought to haue any such power within the Realme: and vnlesse you will defende that soules in heauen doe nowe preach the Gospel and minister the Sacramentes, we see not how the Apostles haue any actuall function or ecclesiasticall power on earth, here or elsewhere.

These quarrels full of spite and voide of al trueth and common reason, doe more than you thinke, impaire the credit of your religion and learning: but so great is your malice that it shutteth your senses & kindleth your cholor whiles you would say somwhat, to say you care not what, be it neuer so vntrue or vntidy.

Phi.

* 2.444The Princes soueraignty is directly against the commandement & commission giuen to Peter first, & then to all the Apostles, of preaching, baptising, remitting, retai∣ning, binding, loosing ouer all the world without difference of temporall state, or depen∣dance of any mortall Prince therein.

Theo.

That cōmandement & promise of our Sauior to his Apostles is no way preiudiciall to our doctrine, nor beneficial to yours, as also the charge which the preachers & bishops of England haue ouer their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope, nor dependeth vpon the wil or word of any earthly creature: & therfore you do vs the more wrong, so confidently to say what you list of vs, as if your enuious reports were authentik oracles.

Phi.

* 2.445You make the Prince su∣preme gouernor in al spiritual & ecclesiasticall thinges & causes; preaching, bap∣tising, binding, loosing, & such like be spiritual things & causes, ergo you make the Princes supreme gouernor euen in these things. And here you may see that we iustly charge you with all the former absurdities, though to shift thē & vs off, you say we do nothing but slander & cauil.

Theo.

And here you may see the truth of our speech & vniustnes of your charge, & that as you began, so you cōtinue w^t spite full pe••••erting & deprauing our words. For by GOVERNORS we do not mean moderators, perscribers, directors, inuentors, or authors of these things, as you misconster vs, but rulers & magistrates bearing the sworde to permit & defende that which Christ himselfe first appointed & ordained, & with lawfull force to di∣sturbe the despisers of his wil & testament. Now what inconuenience is this if

we say that Princes as publike Magistrates may giue freedom,* 2.446 protection and assistance to the preaching of the word, ministring of the Sacraments, & right vsing of the keies, & not fet licence from Rome? Is that against Christs cōman∣dement or commission giuen to Peter & the rest? or doth that proue all ecclesia∣sticall power & cure of soules to proceed & depend of the Princes right?

Phi.

It keepeth the realme from obedience to general Councels which haue bin or shal be gathered in forraine countries: It taketh away al conuenient meanes of gathering, holding or executing any such Councels & their Decrees, as appeared by refusing to come to the late Councel of Trent, notwithstanding the Popes messengers and letters of other great Princes, which requested and inuited them to the same.

Theo.

Princes ought to heare & obey the truth proposed by priuate persons & Preachers,* 2.447 much more to reuerence the same declared by a number of faithful & godly Bishops meeting in a general councel: But the pleasures & orders of o∣ther princes & prelats, be their assembly neuer so great, the rulers of this realme are not bound to respect vnlesse their consents be first required and obtained.

Particular councels you may call without vs, and as we are not acquainted with them, so are we not obstricted to them: Generall Councels you can not call, without the liking and warning of all Christian Princes and common∣wealthes; and if you neglect or skippe any, they may lawfully refuse and des∣pise that which you shal then and there decree: For that which pertaineth to all can not be good, without the knowledge and consents of all.

Phi.

To the Councel of Trent you were requested and inuited by messengers frō the Pope,* 2.448 and letters of other great Princes.

Theo.

To your Chapter at Trent we came not for many good and sufficient reasons. The Pope tooke vppon him to call that Councell which he had no right to do: None might haue voices in the Councel, but such as were his creatures and sworne to bee true & trustie to his triple crowne: The conclusion and resolution of all thinges was euer reserued to him or his Legates: This Realme and others were inuited to come but as suppliants to your Synod, & to stand at your curtesies, and to suffer your selues to be iudges in your owne cause, and yet you thinke much that wee refused to come. Let a christian councell bee agreed on by all their consentes that haue to do with it, let both sides haue like interest in the councell:* 2.449 Let your Salua semper in omnibus Apostolicae sedis authoritate, Forprising in all thinges the Popes power and pleasure be reiected, and the Scriptures inspired from God be laid in the middest as the ballance and touchstone of truth, which was the wont of former councels. Let both partes bee sworne to respect nothing, but in the feare of God to examine the faith, & seeke out the ancient canons of Christs church, & if we faile to meete you, declaime against vs on Gods name, as hinde∣rers of peace & despisers of general councels: Otherwise no duety bindeth vs to resort, much lesse to be subiect to your vnlawfull routes, voide of al christian au∣thority, liberty, truth & indifferency.

Phi.

Was the Councell of Trent vnlawfully called?

Theo.

Proue it the Popes right to cal generall Councels; & that none must sit there but his feed &

sworne men; & lastly that he must rule & raigne as he doth in all assemblies, & bee iudge against al law & reason in his own cause, though he be chiefe in resisting the truth & oppressing the church, & then will we grant your conuenticle at Trēt was orderly called:* 2.450 But if these things be repugnant to christian equitie & the sincere canons of Gods Church, whereby the Catholike Councels of former a∣ges were directed, as apparently they be, then had your Tridentine chapter nei∣ther the calling, keeping, concluding, nor meaning of a generall Councel.

Phi.

Who shoulde call Councels, if not the Pope?

Theo.

* 2.451Shew what one generall Councell the Pope called, for the space of twelue hundred yeares after Christ, and then aske vs who should call them but he; if you can not, learn that vsurpation is no right and that generall Councels were called by Princes and not by Popes, and therefore the Popes power to summon generall Coun∣cels, if it bee any, grewe very lately and is not yet olde enough to bee currant or Catholike.

Phi.

* 2.452To the Councell of Trent other Princes consented.

Theo.

Certaine Friers were set there to wast day light & wearie the wals with declaiming a∣gainst the Gospell of Christ whiles your holy father and his Cardinals were eighteene yeres prouoking & working the Princes & States adherent to them, to spill christian blood & to make hauocke of al places & persons that were not ••••••dient to the Bishop of Rome; & yet you count it some great absurditie for vs to reiect this Councell as not generall.

Phi.

* 2.453You acknowledge no subiection to Councels or Tribunals abroad, all other Bishops, Patriarkes, Apostles, Christ & all (because they were & be forrainers) not hauing iurisdiction or sufficiēt authoritie to define against English Sectaries or Errors. And this, when a Realme or Prince is in error, taketh away all meanes of reducing thē to the truth againe.

Theo.

To Christ & his Apostles we acknowledge more subiection than you doe.* 2.454 We honor & adore him as the true son of God equall w^t his father in autho∣rity & maiesty. We make him no forrainer to this Realm as you do, but professe him to be the only master, redeemer, & ruler of his church as wel in this as in all other Nations: To whom Princes & Preachers are but seruāts; the preachers to propose, the Princes to execute his will & commandements: & whom all that wil be saued must beleeue & obey aboue & against all Councels & Tribunals,* 2.455 be they regall or papall, if they dissent from his word.

The preachings & writings of the Apostles we receiue with greater reuerēce & exacter obedience, than you do. We giue no man leaue to dispence against thē which your law witnesseth of the Pope.* 2.456 Papa cōtra Apostolū dispensat, The Pope dispēseth against the Apostle: We neuer said as Pigghius saith, The Apostles wrote certaine things, not that their writinges should bee aboue our faith and religion, but rather vnder. Wee confesse, The Apostles were men al∣lowed of God, to whom the Gospel should be committed, & therefore we re∣ceiue the word from thē, not as the word of man, but, as it is in deed, the word of God, assuring our selues, it is the power of God to saue all that beleeue, &

detesting your erronious and heynous presumptions, that take vppon you to adde, alter, diminish, and dispence with that which the spirite of Christ spake as well by the pennes as mouthes of the Apostles.

To Councels,* 2.457 such as the Church of Christ was wont by the helpe of her re∣ligious Princes to call, we owe communion and brotherly concord so long as they make no breach in faith, nor in christian charitie: subiection and seruitude wee owe them none: the blessed Angels professe themselues to bee fellowe seruantes with the Sainctes on earth, what are you then that with your Tribunals and iurisdictions woulde bee Lordes and Rulers ouer Christes in∣heritance?

Peter, saith Cyprian,* 2.458 whom the Lord made first choice of & on whom he built his church, when Paul after stroue (with him) for Circumcision did not take vpon him, nor chalenge any thing insolentlie or arrogantly, nor ad∣uaunce him-selfe as Primate and one to whom the nouices and puinees shoulde bee subiect. And as it were in open defiance of your Tribunals and iurisdictions which Stephen the Bishoppe of Rome began then to exercise, he directeth the Bishops assembled in a Councell at Carthage on this wise: It resteth that of this matter wee speake euerie one of vs what we thinke,* 2.459 iudging no man nor remouing any man from the communion, though he be not of our minde. For none of vs maketh himselfe Bishop of Bishops,* 2.460 or by terrour like a tyrant, forceth his collegues to yeeld him obedience whe∣ther they will or no, considering euerie Bishop by reason of his (Episcopal) power and freedom, hath the rule of his owne iudgement as one that can not bee iudged of an other, nor hee him-selfe iudge an other but let vs al expect the (tribunal or) iudgement of our Lord Iesus Christ, which only & solely hath power to set vs in the gouernment of his Church and to iudge of our actes.

And because you be so earnest with vs for subiection to Tribunals abroade to bee plaine with you it is boyes plaie, before you name them, or proue that wee owe them any subiection, to skore it vppe as an absurditie that wee ac∣knowledge none vnto them;* 2.461 and yet least you shoulde thinke vs the first that refused Tribunals abroade, you shall see that ancient and worthy fathers haue done the like before vs.

What Tribunals abroade did Cyprian and the 80. Bishoppes at Carthage with him acknowledge, when hee saide as you hearde? Christus vnus & so∣lus habet potestatem de actu nostro iudicandi, Christ only and none else hath au∣thoritie to iudge of our act. And agai••e,* 2.462 Episcopus ab al••o iudicari non potest, cum non ipse nec alterum iudicare: A Bishop may not be iudged of others, nor iudge others.* 2.463 Expectemus vniuersi iudicium Christi; Let vs all (both abroad and at home) expect the iudgement of Christ.

What Tribunals abroade did Polycrates and the Bishops of Asia with him acknowledge when hee replied to the Bishoppe of Rome,* 2.464 threatning to ex∣communicate him and the rest? Non turbaborijs, quae terrendi gratia obijciun∣tur,

I passe not for these threats that are offered to terrifie me.* 2.465

What Tribunals abroad did S. Aug. & the 216. African Bishops acknowledge when they decreed that none Appealing ouer the Sea (to Tribunals abroad) should be receiued to the communion within Africa? And when they repelled the Bishop of Rome, laboring to place his Legates a latere within their Pro∣uince & willed him n••t to bring Fumosum seculi Typhum, That smoky pride of the world into the Church of Christ?

* 2.466What Tribunals abroad did the Bishop of the Britons acknowledge, when they proued to August. the Moncke that was sent from Rome, that they ought him no subiection.

* 2.467Nay what Tribunal abroad did Greg. the Bishop of Rome chalenge, when he wrote thus to Eulogius Bishop of Alexandria: Vestra beatitudo mihi loquitur di∣cēs, sicut iussistis, quod verbū iussionis peto à meo auditu remouete: quia scio quis sum, qui estis. Loco enim mihi fratres estis, moribus patres. Nō ergo iussi, sed quae vtilia visa sunt iudicare curau••. Your blessednes (in your letters) saith to me as you cōmā¦ded, which word of cōmāding I beseech you remoue frō mine eares, because I know who I am, & what you are. In calling you are brethrē to me; in beha∣uior fathers. I did not thē cōmand you but aduertise you what semed best to me.* 2.468 The same Greg. teacheth you what it is for any one man to require vniuer∣sall subiection of the whole church, as your holie father now doth. If Paul, saith he, would not haue the mēbers of the Lords body to be subiect to any heads but to Christ,* 2.469 no not to the Apostles themselues; what wilt thou answere to Christ the head of the vniuersall church in the last daie of iudgement which goest about to haue all his members in subiection to thee by the title of vni∣uersall? Whom doest thou imitate in so peruerse a name, but (Lucifer) that despising▪ legions of Angels his fellowes, would needes aspire to be singular and alone to be ouer all?

To let one man haue all the members of Christ in subiection vnder him, is not the meane to reduce Princes and their people to trueth, as you falslie sup∣pose, but the high way to wrappe them and the whole church in blindnesse and error.* 2.470 Ecclesia vniuersa corruit, si vnus vniuersus cadit; If he that is vniuersall fall, the whole church falleth with him.

* 2.471Yea this very subiection of all kingdomes and countries to the Popes beck, made him first forget his duetie to God and man, whiles his clawbacks aduan∣ced him to the height of heauen, and gaue him all power both in heauen and earth, and so quailed & disabled all others that they neither might reproue nor durst resist his wicked and wilfull fansies were they neuer so pernicious to the faith or opprobrious to the church. For you made it Sacrilege to dispute of his fact,* 2.472 Heresie to doubt of his power, Paganisme to disobey him, Blasphe∣mie against the holy Ghost to doe or speake against his decrees and canons; and that which is most horrible, you made it Presumption not to goe to the di∣uel after him without any grudging. O shameful & sinful subiection, such as Lu∣cifer himselfe neuer offered the bondslaues of hell!

Phi.

Nay rather, O shamefull and sinnefull report:* 2.473 doeth hee require any such subiection?

Theo.

If your lawe doe not auouch as much as I re∣port, let mee beare the shame. Sacrilegij instar esset, disputare de facto (Papae) It were no lesse than sacrilege to dispute of the Popes fact. And the Capi∣tall Register of your decrees, Commit tunt sacrilegium, qui contra diuinae legis san∣ctitatem, aut nesciendo committunt,* 2.474 aut negligendo offendunt. Similiter de iudicio summi Pontificis alicus disputare non licet. They commit sacrilege which of ignorance transgresse, or of negligence breake the Lawe of God. Vnder the like paine (of sacrilege) it is vnlawfull for any man to dispute of the Popes iudgement. For all the sanctions of the Apostolike See (of Rome) are to be receiued as confirmed with the diuine voice of Peter himselfe.

Hee,* 2.475 saith Pope Nicolaus, that defraudeth any church of her right doeth vniustlie, but hee that indeuoureth to take from the church of Rome her pri∣uilege, hic procul dubio in haeresin labitur & est dicendus haereticus, hee out of all doubt slideth into heresie and is to bee counted an heretike. Uppon the warrant of this and such like textes your Glozer as it were falling on his knees and holding vppe his handes to that Idoll exalting him-selfe in the Temple of God, pronounceth distinctly and leasurably:* 2.476 Credere Dominum Deum nostrum Papam non potuisse statuere prout statuit, haereticum censere∣tur: To thinke that our Lord God the Pope coulde not decree as he hath decreed, must bee counted hereticall. For as Pope hee might doe manie things, & not only declare, but also bring in a new article of faith.

Bonifacius the eight would needes haue it to bee Manicheisme, and that he found by the first booke of Moses: Whosoeuer, saith he, resisteth (the Popes) power resisteth the ordinance of God, vnlesse with Manicheus he dreame of mo beginninges (than one) which we adiudge to be false and heretical, be∣cause, as Moses saith in the beginning God made heauen and earth, not in the beginnings. Therefore we declare, affirme, define, pronounce, that it is a necessarie point to saluation, for euerie humane creature to bee subiect to the Bishop of Rome. Gregorie the seuenth produceth Samuell to proue that it is idolatrie and infidelitie to disobey the Pope.* 2.477 Hee that will not obey this most holsome precept of ours (forbidding Priestes their wiues vnder the colour of fornication.) incurreth the sinne of Idolatrie as Samuell witnes∣seth; Not to obey is the sinne of witchcraft, & not to be content is the wic∣kednesse of idolatrie. Therefore he falleth into Paganisme, whosoeuer obei∣eth not the Apostolike See (of Rome.)

They may be well saide to blaspheme the holy Ghost, saith Pope Dama∣sus, which willingly or frowardly do or dare speake against the holy canons. For this presumption is plainly one kinde of blasphemie against the holie Ghost. And as though this were too litle the gloze addeth Blasphemie, nay ipso facto he is accursed, and an heretike.

Phi.

You wrest that to the Popes decrees which was spoken of the canons of councels.

Theo.

I wrest it not, the same place will tell you, the word com∣priseth

as well the Popes decrees as canons of councels.* 2.478 Sancta Romana Ec∣clesiaius & authoritatem sacris Canonibus impertitur, habet enim ius condendi Ca∣nones. The holy Romane church giueth strength and authoritie to the sa∣cred canons, for shee hath right to make canons. And againe, Sic summae sedis Pontifices Canonibus siue à se, siue ab alijs sua authoritate conditis reuerentiā exhibent: So the Bishops of the supreme See, doe reuerence the canons which them-selues make or others by their authoritie. And lastly, speak∣ing of the Bishoppes of Rome, Ipsi soli Canones valent interpretari qui ius condendi eos habent: Popes onely may interprete the canons, which haue right to make canons.

Or if you thinke Popes woulde not accompt it blasphemie to breake their decrees, reade the words of Pope Adrian in the same section.* 2.479 Generali decreto censemus & constituimus vt execrandum anathema sit, & velut praeuaricator fidei Catholicae semper apud Deum reus existat, quicunque Regum, Episcoporum, vel Potentum deinceps Romanorum Pontificum Decretorum censuram in quoqua credi∣derit vel permiserit violandam: By a generall decree we order and determine that he shalbe execrably accursed and guiltie for euer before God, as a trans∣gressor of the catholike faith, whatsoeuer king, Bishop or Noble man here∣after shal beleeue the censure of the Popes decretals may be broken in any thing or shall permit the same. That horrible curse which the Apostle pronou∣ceth, If any man loue not the Lord Iesus,* 2.480 this Apostata thundreth on them that doe but doubt of his decretals.

This is bad enough, & yet this is not the worst. For Bonifacius a Martyr as you make him requireth al men to follow the Bishop of Rome to the diuel of hell without making any words.* 2.481 Si Papa suae & fraternae salutis negligens depre∣henditur, inutilis & remissus in suis operibus, & insuper à bono taciturnus qui ma∣gis officit sibi & omnibus, nihilominus innumerabiles populos cateruatim secum du∣cit primo mancipio gehennae: huius culpas istic redarguere praesumit mortalium nullus. Your forgeries be as grosse as they be wicked, the latine is so good that I can skant english it; yet thus it is, or should bee:* 2.482 If the Pope be found to neglect the saluation of himselfe & his brethren, vnprofitable & slacke in his office, silent in that which is good, hurtfull to himselfe & all others, yea though hee leade with him innumerable soules by heapes to the diuell of hell, yet let no mortal man presume to find fault with him, or reproue him for his doings.

This is the subiection which your holy father wold haue, & which you count vs absurd for not acknowledging: But may we not iustly say to you as S. August. saide to the Donatistes?* 2.483 This which you affirme, that al the worlde must bee subiect to one man as to Christs Uicar, Did God or man tell it you? If God, read it vnto vs out of the law, the Prophets, the Psalms, the Apostolical or E∣uangelicall writings. Read it if you can, which (hitherto) you ueuer coulde. But if men haue saide it (or rather no men but your selues) beholde the deuise of men, beholde what you worship, behold what you serue, behold wherefore you rebel, you rage, you waxe madde.

Phi.

If you will not bee subiect to the Pope,* 2.484 as Christes Uicar and head of the Church, which no doubt he is, yet haue you no colour to withstande his authoritie, as hee is and euer was Patriarke of the West.

Theo.

His vicarshippe to Christ and headshippe ouer the Church bee thinges that you speake much of, but shewe small proofe for: It were good you woulde ei∣ther prooue them, or not presume them as you doe: they bee matters of greater weight than that you may carie them away with your faire lookes.

Patriarke of the West wee graunt he was, which is a foule fall from head of the Church and Uicar generall to Christ himselfe, and yet this way you come too short of your reckoning.

For first,* 2.485 the tytle and authoritie of Archbishoppes and Patriarkes was not ordayned by the commaundement of Christ or his Apostles, but the Bishops long after, when the Church began to bee troubled with dissentions, were con∣tent to lincke themselues together, and in euery Prouince to suffer one (whome they preferred for the worthines of his Citie and called their Metropolitane, that is Bishoppe of the chiefe or mother Citie) to haue this prerogatiue in all doubts of Doctrine and discipline to assemble the rest of his brethren or consult them absent by letters, and see that obserued, which the most part of them determined.

Before there beganne schismes in religion the Churches,* 2.486 sayth S. Hierom, were gouerned by the common Councell of the Seniors. And therfore Episcopi nouerint, se magis consuetudine quam dominicae dispositionis verita∣te Presbyteris esse maiores: Let the Bishoppes vnderstand that they bee grea∣ter than (ministers or) elders, rather by Custome, than by any trueth of the Lordes appointment, and that they ought to gouerne the Church in common. And in his Epistle to Euagrius hauing fully prooued by the Scriptures that the Apostles called themselues but Presbyteros,* 2.487 Elders or Se∣niors, he addeth Quod autē postea vnus electus est qui ceteris praeponereter, in schis∣matis remedium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se trahens Christiecclesiā rumperet: That after their times, one was chosen in euery Church and preferred be∣fore the rest to haue the dignitie of a Bishoppe this was prouided for a re∣medie against schismes,* 2.488 lest euery man drawing some vnto him shoulde rent the Church of Christ in pieces. For what doth a Bishop, except orde∣ring of others, which an Elder may not doe?

And lest you should thinke he speaketh not as well of the chiefe as of the mea∣ner Bishoppes, hee compareth three of the greatest Patriarkes with three of the poorest Bishops he could name.* 2.489 Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus, siue Romae, siue Eugubij, siue Constantinopoli, siue Rhegij, siue Alexandriae, siue Tains, eiusdem meriti, eiusdem est & Sacerdotij. Potentia diuitiarum & paupertatis humilitas vel sublimio∣rem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit: ceterum omnes Apostolorum successores sunt. A Bishop of what place soeuer hee be, either of Rome, or of Eugubium, or of Constantinople, or of Rhegium, or of Alexandria, or of Tains hath the same merite and the same (function or) Priesthood. Abundance of riches or base∣nes

of pouertie doeth not make a Bishoppe higher or lower, for they all be successours to the Apostles. So that the Bishoppe of Rome by commission from Christ and succession from the Apostles is no higher than the meanest Bi∣shop in the worlde.

* 2.490The superioritie which he and others had as Metropolitanes in their owne Prouinces came by custome, as the great Councell of Nice witnesseth, not by Christes institution. Let the olde vse continue in Aegypt, Lybia, and Pentapo∣lis, that the Bishoppe of Alexandria bee chiefe ouer all those places, for so much as the Bishoppe of Rome hath the like custome. Likewise at Antioch and in other Prouinces, let the Churches keepe their prerogatiues.

* 2.491The generall Councell of Ephesus confesseth the same. It seemeth good to this sacred and oecumenicall Synode to conserue to euery prouince, their right priuileges whole and vntouched, which they haue had of olde accor∣ding to the custome that now long hath preuayled.

* 2.492Next their authoritie was subiect not only to the discretion and moderation of their brethren assembled in Councell, but also to the lawes & Edicts of Chri∣stian Princes, to be graunted, extended, limited and ordered as they saw cause.

For example the first Councell of Constantinople aduaunced the Bishoppe of that Citie to bee the next Patriarke to the Bishoppe of Rome, which be∣fore he was not. And the Councel of Chalcedon made him equall in ecclesiasti∣call honours with the Bishoppe of Rome,* 2.493 and assigned him a larger Prouince than before he had.

So Iustinian gaue to the Citie in Africa that he called after his owne name, the See of an Archbishoppe.* 2.494 Archiepiscopale munus, quod Episcopo Iustinianeae Carthaginis Africanae Dioeceseos dedimus, conseruari iubemus. Sed & aliae ciuitates atque horum Episcopi, quibus passim in diuersis locis ius Metropoliticum concessum est, in perpetuum hoc priuilegio perfruuntor. The Archiepiscopal dignitie which wee gaue to the Bishoppe of Iustinianea within the Prouince of Africa, we commaund to continue still. And likewise let other Cities and their Bishops to whom in diuers places and Countries the right of Metropolitanes hath beene graunted, enioy that priuilege for euer.

* 2.495The same Prince as you heard before commanded the Archbishops and Patriarkes of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Theopolis and Ierusalem, and ge∣nerally subiecteth them in ecclesiasticall causes and iudgements to the sacred Canons and his (Imperiall) Lawes, as appeareth expressely in his publike E∣dicts made to that end.

* 2.496Thirdly by the right and auncient diuision of prouinces this Realme was not vnder the Bishoppe of Rome. For when the Bishoppes of Africa prai∣ed Innocentius either to send for Pelagius the Britan or to deale with him by letters to shewe the meaning of his lewde speaches tending to the derogation of Gods grace, the Bishoppe of Rome made answere; Quando se nostro iudicio, quibusuis acceptis literis, cum sciat damnandum esse, committet? Qui si accersendus esset, ab ijs melius fieret quimagis proximi & non longo terrarum spacio videntur esse

ds••iuncti. When will hee commit himselfe to our iudgement, write I what letters I will, whereas hee knoweth hee shalbe condemned? And if hee were to bee sent for, they may better doe it that are neerer (to him) and not so farre distant (from him as I am.) Innocentius 400. yeeres after Christ confesseth hee had not sufficient authoritie to call one poore Briton out of this Realme. And two hundred yeeres after that the Bishoppes of Britannie woulde yeelde no subiection to him that was sent from Rome, nor accept him for their Archbishoppe.* 2.497 And euen their manner of baptizing, obseruing Easter, and other ecclesiasticall institutions contrarie to the rites and customes of the Church of Rome, as Augustine the Monke then obiec∣ted vnto them, make manifest proofe that they were neuer vnder the iurisdic∣tion of the Bishop of Rome.

Fourthly the Pope coueting and affecting to bee that hee was not,* 2.498 disdayned and refused euer since the conquest to bee that hee was: and so by his owne fact hath extinguished his owne right, if any hee gate in the time of the Saxons, who to settle themselues in the possession of this Realme, after the chasing out of the Britons, were soone entrea∣ted to receiue the Bishoppe of Rome for their Patriarke. And seeing the headshippe of the Church, which hee violently and wrongfully enfor∣ced vpon the Normans, by Gods Lawe is not his, no reason hee should now clayme by his Patriarkshippe, which himselfe aspiring to higher tytles so many hundred yeres disused and contemned.

Lastly the Kinges of England for the most part of them from the Con∣querour to this day,* 2.499 in the right of their Crowne haue either resisted or rebated the iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall which the Pope claymed in this Lande. Wherefore hee was neuer any long tyme in full and quiet posses∣sion of his pretensed power in this Realme: And her Maiesties Father and brother excluding him both from that authoritie which hee woulde haue o∣uer this Iland, as vnlawfull and repugnant to the woord of God, and al∣so from that which for these fiue hundred yeeres and vpward himselfe neglec∣ted and omitted, had Gods Lawes and mans Lawes for the warrant of their doings, and for their leauing him no kind of power or preeminence with∣in this Realme.

So that his Uicarshippe to Christ must bee prooued by stronger and playner euidence than yet you haue shewed,* 2.500 before wee may graunt it: And as for his Patriarkeshippe, which you woulde nowe take holde of, by Gods Lawe hee hath none, in this Realme for sixe hundred yeeres af∣ter Christ hee had none, for the last sixe hundred, as looking to greater matters, hee woulde haue none: aboue or against the sword which God hath ordayned, hee can haue none; to the subuersion of the fayth and op∣pression of his brethren in reason, right and equitie hee should haue none: You must seeke farther for subiection to his Tribunal, this Land oweth him non••.

Phi.

* 2.501Finally if this iurisdiction spirituall bee alwayes of right a sequele of the crowne and Scepter of all kinges, assuredly Christ nor none of his Apostles coulde otherwise enter to conuert Countries preach and exercise iurisdiction spiritual, with∣out Caesars and others the kings of the countries licence and delegation.

Theo.

Finally, if this bee all you can say, you may wipe your bill and goe to rest. You were told before that Princes haue no right to call or confirme Preachers, but to receiue such as bee sent of God, and giue them libertie for their preaching,* 2.502 and securitie for their persons; & if Princes refuse so to doe, Gods labourers must goe forward with that which is commaunded them from heauen, not by disturbing Princes from their thrones nor inuading their Realmes, as your holy father doth and defendeth hee may doe, but by myld∣ly submitting themselues to the powers on earth, and meekely suffering for defence of the trueth what they shall inflict.

Howe you gather out of this or any wordes of ours, that Christ and his Apo∣stles might not preach the Gospell without Cesars delegation, and licence from others the kinges of the Countries, whither they went, I see not, except you take the woord supreme for superiour to Christ, and all which, as I haue often signified vnto you, standeth neither with our assertion nor in∣tention, but is a very pestilent and impudent sophistication of yours, which you still repeate, though we still refute.

Phi.

The word supreme is such a Laberinth that wee knowe not what to make of it.

Theo.

You know well enough, but you will not acknowledge the true meaning of the woord, lest you should discouer your selues and dis∣credite your cause.* 2.503 For then either you must shewe which you are no way a∣ble to doe, that the Pope as a superiour iudge may lawfully commaunde, punish and displace Princes if they withstande him: or else with vs con∣fesse Princes to bee supreme, which your stomackes will not abide. And therefore finding your proofes too slender to beare vp the height of his pride and the loade of your follie, you thought best to skippe it ouer, and in all your Apologie not so much as to offer vs one halfe woorde for the con∣firmation of the superioritie which the Pope claymeth ouer Princes, that being the right construction of the word supreme, & the first occasion why prin∣ces were so called, but to braule rather with vs about some words of ours, and therefore to make such monsterous and impious imaginations, that the simple should be afraid at the very sound of thē, as though we made the prince supreme, that is,* 2.504 superiour to Christ himselfe, and Christs master, & gaue her absolute & infinite power to doe what she listed in al ecclesiastical matters, and taught that trueth and faith, Scriptures and Sacraments, vocation of ministers, remission of sinnes, preaching, baptising and seruing God must proceed from her Soue∣raigne right and depend on her only will, and in this vaine you runne on with a iolly persuasion of your selues, that you worke woonders, when indeed you doe nothing but leudly peruert our wordes and falsely charge vs with your owne fictions.

Phi.

Neuer burden vs with the peruerting of your words,* 2.505 we take them as we finde them; and as you sayd before to vs, we be not bound to search for your mea∣ning; if there bee any generalitie or ambiguitie in your words, which you ment not, the blame is yours that made choise of such.

Theo.

Cease you to wrest them against the grounds of faith and rules of speach receaued and vsed on both sides, we aske you no fauor, our wordes be sound and good.

We call her highnes the Gouernour of this Realm, that is the publike ma∣gistrat bearing the sword, which God hath ordained to commaund good things and punish euill as well in religion as ciuill policie: How els should we cal her?

Phi.

Not Gouernour, but Prince or ruler. For Bishops be Gouernours in their kind as well as Princes.

Theo.

As though these words were not subiect to the same cauils with the former. Bishops be Princes and Rulers in their kind as well as gouernours. Your selues proue them to be rulers by S. Paul, Obey your Rulers: and againe, The holy Ghost hath set you to rule the Church. And where you say Rulers in S. Paul, S. Hierom saith, Parete Principibus vestris: Obey you Princes. And elswhere; A Bishop must be ir∣reproueable, or he shall be no Prince of the Church. Yea Gregorie doubteth not to call them Kings. The holy preachers of the Church, saith he, be Kings. And S. Hierom ventereth to call them Queenes. The Kings and Queenes, that nource the Church be plainly the Apostles and Apostolike men.

So that if we were disposed to play with wordes, as you be, we coulde driue you to seeke newe names not only for Kings & Princes, but also for Priests and Bishops. S. Iohn saith of himselfe and of al the faithfull (Christ hath) made vs Kings and Priests vnto god his father: and S. Peter confirmeth the same, You are a Roiall Priesthood. Eusebius writeth of Constantine, that He called the seruants of God to Synods as a cōmon Bishop appointed by God: and sate among them, and made himselfe partaker of their consultations; and that in his hearing the Prince Named himselfe a Bishop with these wordes, You are Bishops of things within the Church, I am appointed by God a Bishop of those things that are without the Church. And this he might well doe. For 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a Bishoppe, is in Greeke nothing else but an ouerseer, or a superinten∣dent, which woord Hierom vseth; and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, whence our English woorde Priest seemeth to be deriued, he sayth, is nomen aetatis, a name of age, and signi∣fieth an Elder, and nothing in the Scriptures more common than to call Prin∣ces and rulers 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 Elders: as the seuentie Elders, all the tribes of Israel and their Elders, Princes and iudges: the Princes and Elders of Sucoth: the Elders of Bethulia; and infinite other places; where the woord 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is vsed of the Septuagint.

Phi.

We know you may confound all things if you list to dally with equi∣uocatiōs,* 2.506 but S. Paul hath expresly prohibited al good teachers strife of words,

Theo.

You say well, and since al your absurdities haue none other ground but the carping at our words, or rather the manifest abusing and per••erting of the same, what are your labours, to requite you with Saint Paul, but vaine brables

of men corrupted in mind and depriued of trueth.

* 2.507If the word gouernour were common to Bishops with Princes as you would haue it, yet are their offices and regiments many wayes distinguished. The gouernment of Princes is publike, of Bishops is priuate; of Princes is compulsiue, of Bishops is persuasiue; of Princes is Lordly with Rule, of Bi∣shops is brotherly with seruice; of Princes is externall and ordereth the actions of the bodie, of Bishops is internall, and guideth the motions of the mind; to bee short, Princes haue the sworde with lawfull authoritie from GOD, in his name to commaunde and prohibite, rewarde and reuenge that which hee pre∣scribeth and appointeth: Bishoppes haue the woorde and Sacramentes com∣mitted to their charge with fidelitie and sinceritie to diuide and dispence the same in his Church according to his will. And therefore though Bishoppes may bee called Gouernours in respect of the soule,* 2.508 yet onely Princes bee Go∣uernours of Realmes: Pastours haue flockes and Bishoppes haue Diocesses; Realmes, Dominions, and Countries none haue but Princes and Ma∣gistrates, and so the stile Gouernour of this Realme, belongeth onely to the Prince and not to the Priest, and importeth a publike and Prince∣ly regiment with the sworde, which no Bishoppe by Gods Lawe may claime or vse.

Phi.

Wee coulde graunt you with a good will that the Prince is the only Gouernour of this Realm, but you adde, as well in all spirituall or ecclesiasti∣call things or causes, as temporall: which is most absurde and direct against your owne distinction. For if the Prince be the only Gouernour of all spirituall things and causes,* 2.509 Ergo Bishops bee no Gouernours of the word nor Sacra∣mentes, rites nor ceremonies, praiers nor preachings of the Church, but all must bee as please the Prince: and so you fall into that shameful error againe from the which you seeke to cleare your selues.

Theo.

* 2.510Is it for weakenes of witte, that you cannot, or for rustines of hart that you will not see the defect of your argument?

Phi.

The reason to my thinking is very sure. For if only Princes be Gouernours in those cases, Ergo not Priests.

Theo.

A childish sophisme. Your antecedent hath a special accep∣tion of the word Gouernour, and your conclusion a generall. Princes only bee Gouernours in things and causes ecclesiastical, that is with the sword. For so their vocation inferreth, and your assertion witnesseth, and so must you limite your antecedent before it will be good or agreeable to the Doctrine, which wee teach, & oth which we take. Then if you conclude, Ergo Bishops be no gouernors in those things with the sword, your illation is sound and sufficient: for in all things and causes ecclesiasticall and spirituall Princes beare the sworde, and not Bishops. But if you inferre, Ergo Bishops bee no Gouernours in those things, meaning thereby no dispencers, guiders nor directors, of those things, your conclusion is larger than your antecedent, which neuer maketh good consequent.

Phi.

I see your meaning: you will haue Princes only to be Gouernours of

their Realmes & dominions, that is to beare the sworde within their Realmes and dominions in all thinges as well spirituall as temporall.

Theo.

You see what wee say,* 2.511 peruert it no more, but confute it if you can.

Phi.

That Princes and none els shoulde beare the sworde within their Dominions I meane not to confute, I confesse it as well as you: But what hath the tem∣porall sword to do, with ecclesiasticall thinges and causes? Princes should med∣dle with common wealth matters, and not busie themselues with Church cau∣ses.

Theo.

Runne you backe againe to this issue, that Princes may not med∣dle with causes ecclesiasticall? Haue you forgotten how largely that is prooued before; and sealed with your owne consent as irreuocable?

Phi.

Meddle they may with some spirituall thinges and causes, but when and as they shall bee required by the Priest.

Theo.

Wee are not at this present to heare what you can imagine, but to see what you can impugne in our othe as absurd. And thus farre you agree with vs, that Princes bee the onely Gouernours of their Realmes and dominions, taking Gouernours for Magistrates which beare the sworde in Gods behalfe with publike pow∣er to compell or punish.* 2.512

Phi.

And what of this?

Theo.

Thus much, that if onely Princes beare the sworde and no man else by Gods appoint∣ment, ergo they beare it in all thinges, where the sworde must or may be vsed, as well spirituall as temporall.

Phi.

No doubt where the sword must or may bee borne, they beare it: but howe proue you that in spirituall thinges and causes the temporal sword must or may bee vsed?

Theo.

Pitch that for the question, and trie how wel you shall speede with it.

Phi.

Wee neuer denyed but in some sort the temporall sword might bee v∣sed for spirituall thinges and causes, as namely to defend the fayth and Ca∣nons of the Church, and to put them in execution. This Princes may do and must doe with their royall power, but they may not commaund what they list in ecclesiasticall causes as you would haue them.

Theo.

You snarle stil when you see your selfe brought to the wall. What we woulde haue Princes to doe, shall soone appeare, if you cease from slaundering, and keepe to the matter. Our tongues ake with telling you that we hold no such opinion, and yet you ne∣uer leaue grating at vs as if we did.

The point,* 2.513 that nowe wee stande at, is this, whether in a Christian common wealth the temporall sworde, as you call it, that is the publike au∣thoritie of the Magistrate must bee vsed to receiue, establish and defende the true faith of Christ and wholesome discipline of his Church, and to prohi∣bite, displace and punish the contrarie: say nay if you dare.

Phi.

Wee neuer ment it.

Theo.

Then in all spirituall thinges and causes Princes onely beare the sword, that is haue publike authoritie to receiue, establish and defende all poyntes and partes of Christian Doctrine and Discipline within their Realmes, and without their helpe, though the fayth and Canons of Christes Church may bee pryuately professed and obserued

of such as bee willing, yet can they not bee generally planted and setled in any kingdome, nor vrged by publike Lawes & externall punishments on such as re∣fuse, but by their consents that beare the sword. This is it that wee say, refell it if you can.

Phi.

* 2.514This is not your opinion but ours. Wee confesse Princes to bee defenders of the faith, and assisters of the Church with their secular might and power: you auouche them to bee supreme moderatours and directours of all spirituall thinges and causes without restraint.

Theo.

Wee a∣uouche you to bee Supreme lyars, and that which is worse, you thinke with facing in time to get some credite to your fabling. You finde no such thing in our words nor deedes as you report of vs. We confesse Princes to bee supreme gouernours, that is as wee haue often told you, supreme bearers of the sworde, which was first ordained from aboue to defend and preserue as well goodlines and honestie,* 2.515 as peace and tranquillitie amongest men. We giue Princes no power to deuise or inuent new religions, to alter or change Sacraments, to de∣cide or debate doubtes of faith, to disturbe or infringe the canons of the church. The publike power and outward meanes, which God hath vnited and annexed to their swords, as namely to commaund by their Edicts, and dispose the goods and bodies of such as resist them, this power and meanes, wee say, must be con∣uerted and vsed first to the seruice and glorie of God, next to the profit and wel∣fare of their Realmes, that is as much or rather more for thinges spirituall than temporall.

Phi.

If you giue Princes no iudicial nor spiritual power in matters of religiō but an externall and temporall power to permit and establish that which God commaundeth,* 2.516 howe can they bee supreme?

Theo.

Supreme they be for that by Gods Lawe they bee not vnder the Popes checke and correction, though to leade on the simple sort with a better shewe, you conceale that superiority which the Pope chalengeth ouer Princes, and enter your whole action for the Church; which woord you knew was more gratious, and will in no case bee brought to take our meaning right, lest you shoulde bee driuen either to proue your assertion, which you can not; or to confesse ours, which you will not. And therefore you wrest the word supreme against the very grounds of our common fayth and rules of your priuate speach, to make it seeme false and absurde; and then as valiant Captaines you wrestle with the fansies which your selues haue deuised, & fighting thus with your own shadowes you thinke your Seminaries the only lights and lanternes of Christendome; but you must go more syncerely to worke, before you can winne the cause.

Phi.

Supreme is superiour to all and subiect to none.

Theo.

And so bee Princes superiour to all men within their Realmes, and subiect to no man without their Realmes.

Phi.

What, superiour to Christ, the Church and all?

Theo.

Haue you neuer done with that idle and eluish obiection? Wee compare not man with God,* 2.517 nor bodies on earth with spirites in heauen; but wee conferre mortall men with their like, bearing flesh about them which the

sworde may touch: and in comparison of them wee say Princes are superi∣our to all men within their dominions, Bishoppes and others, and subiect to no man without their dominions, Prelate nor Pope, to bee commaunded, cor∣rected and deposed by their tribunals.* 2.518 This is the supremacie which wee at∣tribute to Princes, that all men within their Territories shoulde obey their Lawes or abide their pleasures, and that no man on earth hath authoritie to take their swordes from them by iudiciall sentence or martiall violence: Leaue wrangling and rouing and speake directly to this question.

Phi.

I will, if you first graunt that your meaning is not so large as your woordes bee.

Theo.

You would fayne seeme with your eloquent nifles to woorke some masteries: but it will not bee. Our woordes are no larger than our meaning, and both be true.

Phi.

Why? supreme is superiour to al none excepted, no not Christ himselfe.

The.

And what are these phrases,* 2.519 y^e most holy, the most mightie, the most blessed, which you applie to the Pope; do they except Christ or no?

Phi.

If nothing else be added, they doe not by rigor of comparison, but common vse of speach vn∣derstandeth them of earthly men, and alwayes excepteth first God with whom there can bee none compared, and next his Saints which be farre from vs in an other and better life.

Theo.

I crie you mercie. You may salute your Ro∣mish Pharaoh when you will,* 2.520 with the most mightie Priest, the most bles∣sed father, the chiefe Pastor, and many such loftie stiles, and wee must come after with salt and spoones and conceaue that Christ is excepted though he bee not, because your flatteries bee common: and if wee to signifie that Princes by Gods lawe bee not vnder the Popes yoke, defende them to bee superiour to all men at home and subiect to no mans Courts or Consistories abroade and ther∣fore call them supreme Gouernours of their owne people and Countries, you sounde alarme against vs as if wee went about to defeate Christ of his king∣dome and disseism the Church of her inheritaunce when your selues eue∣ry day if that speach bee not tolerable commit blasphemies innumerable.

If other examples doe not stay your wisedomes,* 2.521 remember your vsual stile for the Pope, is summus Pontifex, Supreme Bishoppe; summus and supre∣mus being all one I meane not in sense onely but in speach also. For they both bee superlatiues from the same comparatiue Superior, and summus is nothing else but the very contraction of the woorde Supremus. So that if Supreme Bishoppe with you doe not spoile Christ of his Priesthoode, how can supreme Gouernour with vs lift him out of his kingdome; he clayming expressely to bee chiefe Pastor and Bishoppe of our soules and renouncing in woordes, and refusing in deedes to bee an earthly Prince and iudge in tem∣porall thinges as the Scripture plainely recordeth? And therefore first con∣fesse and correct your owne ouersight, if not error, which taketh from Christ or at lest diuideth with him his speciall and peculiar title: and then if we proue not that all men haue written and spoken in like sort as wee doe, you shall find vs readie, if that be your feare to retract euery syllable that is preiudicial

to the sonne of GOD, and to giue him as much honour as you can wish, or wee deuise: which when it is most, is no more than hee well deser∣ueth.

Phi.

You content vs somewhat if you stand to this which you say, that you giue Princes no Power against the faith nor Canons of the Church, and that the gouernment which you acknowledge in them for spirituall things and causes is nothing els but their temporall and externall might and meanes to see the Rules and precepts of Christ and his Church receiued and settled in their Realmes, and to punish the neglecters and resisters of the same. And yet your termes were so large that your owne friendes reproued them as well as wee.

Theo.

* 2.522Neither misplace nor mistake my wordes: Against the precepts of Christ or Canons of his Church wee giue Princes no power: most true, we doe not; mary by the Canons of the Church we do not meane the Popes Bulles or decrees, nor the partiall iudgements of such Councels as he hath assembled for his faction and framed to his fansies: These bee late, violent and wicked intrusions, but the auncient and Godly Rules of Christes Church generally receaued of all good Christians and generally confirmed of all good Princes, these be the Canons which Princes in dutie should not, in equitie may not subuert, if they wil be taken for faithful defenders and not ••or wilfull op∣pressours of Christes church. For if in temporal things Princes may not dis∣solue the Lawes of their Progenitors, nor frustrate the liberties of their peo∣ple against reason and Iustice, how much lesse ought they to violate the true Canons and euacuate the good orders and discipline of the Church, concluded by so many Godly Fathers, confirmed by so many worthie Princes, and set∣led in so many sundrie places and ages?

* 2.523Constantine, saith Eusebius, confirmed with his authoritie the Canons which the Bishops had agreed on in their Synodes, lest the Rulers of (his) Prouinces should infringe them.* 2.524 We decree, saith Iustinian, that the sacred ecclesiastical Canons concluded and confirmed in the fower (first generall) Councels, haue equal force with (our) lawes. For, we keepe the Canons of the foresaid Councels as lawes. And again, It hath beene rightly said of Em∣perours before vs and of vs also, that the sacred Canons ought to take place as lawes. Athanasius obiected this to Constantius as a note of a tyrant, that he did abrogate the Canons with violence, and ordered all things against the Canons. And Gregorie, when it was written to him that the Emperour com∣manded an other to be chosen for the Bishop of Iustiniana within his prouince, by reason of the sicknes which the said Bishop was troubled with in his head, made this answere: The Canons do no where commaund that a Bishop should loose his office for sicknesse.* 2.525 And therefore it is against iustice, if a Bishop fall sick, that he should be depriued of his honor. If the said reuerēd Bishop for his own ease do require to be discharged of his Episcopal functi∣on, when hee deliuereth that petition in writing, it must bee graunted.

Otherwise I dare not doe it, for feare of almightie God. Whatseeuer the Emperour commaundeth, is in his owne power. Let him prouide as hee seeth cause:* 2.526 onely let him not cause mee to bee partaker of this mans depo∣sition. That which hee doeth, if it bee according to the Canons, wee follow it; if it be against the Canons, we beare it (with silence) so long as wee may without sinne on our parts.

Phi.

Where haue you this place?

Theo.

Why doe you aske?

Phi.

Because wee find the former words in our Decrees but not the later.

Theo.

In deede you say trueth, they were not for your diet; they shewe that the Bishoppe of Rome was obedient to the Emperour in ecclesiasticall causes, so long as the Prince did ioyne with the Canons, and that hee was silent when the Prince went besides the Canons so farre foorth as hee might with∣out sinne in himselfe.* 2.527 And therefore the Collector of your Decrees, left out the last wordes and changed the first by putting the Popes person in steede of the Princes. For where Gregorie begynneth, Scripsit mihi tua dilectio pijssi∣mum Dominum nostrum reuerentissimo fratri meo Ioanni primae Iustinianae Episco∣po, pro egritudine capitis quam patitur praecipere succedi: Your Louingnes wrate vnto mee that our most religious Lord commaundeth an other to be cho∣sen in the place of our reuerende brother Iohn Bishoppe of Iustmiana, be∣cause of the griefe of his head: Your Lawe reporteth it thus, Scripsit mi∣hitua dilectio, me reuerentissimo fratri Do. &c. Your Louingnes wrate vnto me that I commaunded an other to bee chosen, &c. which is a detestable and inexcusable forgerie: but my purpose is to shew that good Princes ob∣serued and esteemed the Canons of the Church no lesse than their owne Lawes, and tooke them for paternes to guyde their Edicts in causes ecclesi∣asticall,* 2.528 as sayth Iustinian: Our Lawes doe not disdaine to follow the sacred Rules (or Canons.)

Phi.

It abateth the supreme power of Princes very much to bee bound to the Canons of the Church.* 2.529

Theo.

No more than it doeth in ciuill regi∣ment to bee tied to the groundes of nature, reason and equitie, from which no wise nor sober Prince woulde wish to bee loosed. And Princes bee Su∣preme not in respect that all thinges bee subiect to their willes, which were plaine tyrannie, not Christian authoritie; but that all Persons within their Realmes are bounde to obey their Lawes, or abide their paynes, and them∣selues not depriueable by the Pope but reserued to the righteous and terrible iudge, if they abuse their swordes to the maintaining of error and oppressing of innocents.

Phi.

Yet this is cleare that the sworde which Princes beare is tem∣porall and therefore the power which Princes haue is not spirituall.* 2.530

Theo.

Wee neuer sayde that Princes had any spirituall power, it is a false col∣lection of yours, it is no part of our confession, and the sworde which they beare wee neuer called but externall and tem∣porall. For the true spiritual

and eternall sworde is the woorde of God.* 2.531 The sworde of the spirite, sayth S. Paul, which is the word of God; and S. Iohn describing the sonne of God, sayth,* 2.532 Out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword. The word of GOD, as S. Paul writeth,* 2.533 is more percing than any two edged sword, and entereth through euen to the parting in sunder of the soul and spirit. And as for both these causes it is spirituall, so it indureth for euer and is eternall.

The magistrats sword compared with this is but corporall and temporall. Corporall in respect it toucheth the body,* 2.534 but not the soule. Our sauiour for war∣ning his Disciples that they should be brought before Gouernours and Kings for his sake, addeth to encourage thē, Feare not those which kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Temporal it is in respect either of Gods ordinance which lasteth no longer than the time of this worlde, or of mans vengeance which cea∣seth by death and rageth no farther, or if you will for that it ordereth the things of this life and praiseth or punisheth the senssible and external actions of the bo∣dy which be temporall.* 2.535 The things which bee seene are temporal, saith S. Paul, but the things which are not seene are eternal.

Phi.

You take temporal for that which dureth for a season and is not eter∣nall; and we take temporal as it is opposite to spirituall. And in that sense be∣cause the sword hath to doe with temporal men and matters only, we call it the temporall sworde: and haue good reason to defend that temporall Princes should not meddle with spirituall Persons or causes.

Theo.

* 2.536The distinction of spirituall and temporal Persons, things and cau∣ses as you limite them sprang first from your selues without all authoritie, or rather in deed against the authoritie of the holy scriptures: and was nothing els but a mere deuise of yours to encrease your Courts and to wind the sword by litle and litle out of other mens fingers & hang it at your owne girdles. For when you saw that the things which be truly spiritual, as faith, hope & charitie with other vertues and fruites of the spirit, belonged only to GOD and not to man, and therefore by the resolution of our Sauiour must bee giuen to God and not to Cesar, first you would needs be termed spirituall men, taking the name which is common to all the sonnes of GOD, as proper to your selues and your seruants, and by that colour exempt not onely Priests but also doore keepers, torche bearers, bell ringers, Church sweepers, and all your retinue from subiection to temporall magistrates.

* 2.537But S. Paul calleth them spirituall men which haue the spirit of GOD, as all his children haue, and the rest carnal or natural men. I could not speak to you brethren as vnto spiritual men but as vnto carnal, euen as vnto babes in Christ. For where as there is yet among you enuieng, strife & dissention, are you not carnal? And againe, The naturall man sauoureth not the thinges of the spirit of God, but the spiritual man discerneth al things. And so, Brethrē, if a mā be fallen into any fault, you that be spiritual restore such a one with the spirit of meeknesse.* 2.538 As also S. Iude: These be fleshly men, hauing no spirit.

And likewise Saint Peter:* 2.539 Bee you made as liuely stones, a spirituall house. What wrong then you doe the faythfull when you name them temporall, as if the hope of their calling reached no farther than this life, let the wise and Godly iudge. That reproche of temporall, and pride of spirituall men, no lear∣ned nor auncient father euer vsed.* 2.540 Secular S. Hierom calleth them, Laymen & Clerkes that were not Monkes. Temporall no man euer called the people of God besides your selues.

Next, that your landes and liuings might speede no worse than your selues,* 2.541 for gaine was the mother of your earely and dayly deuotion, you tooke or∣der to haue them goe for spirituall thinges also, notwithstanding Saint Paul expressely called them carnal. If wee haue sowen vnto you spirituall things, is it a great matter if wee reape your carnall thinges? And speaking of the poore Saintes at Ierusalem, If the Gentiles bee made partakers of their spirituall thinges, their duetie is also to minister vnto them in carnal things. And where the Lorde himselfe willed the Scribes and high Priestes to giue vnto Caesar the thinges that were Caesars,* 2.542 and vnto God the things that were Gods, you, as if that graunt had beene too liberall, thought it expedient vppon some wiser consideration belike, to set the image and superscription of God and his Church vpon your corruptible and earthly Mammon, and by that cunning to keepe it from Caesar.* 2.543 Farre better S. Ambrose: If the Empe∣rour aske for tribute, we deny it not. The lands of the Church pay tribute. If he affect the lands themselues, he hath power to take them, no man amōgst vs is any let vnto him. The almes of the people is enough for the poore. Let them neuer procure vs enuie for (our) Landes, let them take them, if they please. I doe not giue them to the Emperour; but I doe not de∣nie them.

Thirdly to enlarge your kingdome and stretch your winges ouer all men and matters as farre as you needed or listed,* 2.544 you tooke the punishment of incest, adulterie, fornication, drunkennes, vsurie, periurie, simonie, sorcerie, blasphemie, witchcraft, Apostacie, and such like grosse and fleshly vices out of the Magistrates handes vnder the colour of spirituall thinges, and fastened them to your consistories: And not therewith content, you caught holde of tithes, testaments, legacies, intestates, patronages, mariages, diuorces, dow∣ries, espousals, funerals, affinitie, consanguinitie, bastardie, bondage as of spirituall causes and questions: and if the matter concerned the goods and Landes of Churches or Church men, you made no bones to venter on giftes,* 2.545 sales, exchaunges, possession, alienation, restitution, conuenti∣ons, conditions, exactions, sureties, pledges, payments, dammages, iniuries, forgeries, hyring, lending, farming, and a thousand such, as if all actions, cau∣ses and contracts that any way touched your gayne or ease must by and by goe for spirituall, and the magistrate by that poore shift bee secluded from ordering and entermedling with those things, which were wont to bee wholy guided by the Princes Lawes.

Phi.

Mislike you that Priestes shoulde punish sinne, or that Bishoppes should deale in those cases which bee incident to the Lawes of GOD and Canons of the Church?

Theo.

* 2.546I doe not mislike that malefactours of all kindes, not onely drunkards, raylers, periurers, adulterers, vsurers and such like, but also theeues, robbers, rauishers, murderers, plagiaries, incendiaries, tr••ytours and all other haynous offendours, when their liues bee spared by Prin••es, shoulde bee driuen to earnest and open repentaunce before they bee ••eceiued into the Church, or admitted to the diuine mysteries: yea rather I th••nke it very needefull in a Christian common-wealth that God bee pleased and the Church preserued from all felowshippe with these monsterous impie∣ties as well as the Scepter is intreated for their liues; but that you shoulde exempt or saue the workers of wickednes from the Princes sworde and their iust desertes by your priuileges or penances in steede of punishmentes, that is quite repugnant to the sacred Scriptures. Saint Paul sayth, the Prince is Gods minister to reuenge him that doeth euill,* 2.547 and not the Priest. You may not reuenge malefactours, you may separate your selues from them, and haue no communion with them: the Prince must punish them. It passeth your Commission to beare the sworde, and without the power of the sworde your corporall correcting and afflicting of them is vnlawfull and wrongfull violence.

* 2.548And so for tythes, testaments, administrations, seruitude, legitimations and such like, you went beyonde your boundes, when you restrayned them to your Courtes, and without Caesar, made Lawes for thinges that belon∣ged vnto Caesar. The goodes, Landes, Liuings, States and families of Lay men and Clerkes are Caesars charge, not yours; and therefore your decrees, iudgements and executions in those cases, if you claime them from Christ as thinges spirituall,* 2.549 not from Caesar as matters committed of trust to you by Christian Princes, are nothing else but open and wilfull inuasions of other mens rightes, you chaunging the names, and calling those things spirituall and ecclesiasticall, which in deede bee ciuill and temporall, and shouldering Princes from their cusshins, who first suffered Bishoppes to sitte iudges in those causes, of Honour to their Persons and fauour to their functions, which on your part is but a bad requitall of their Princely graces and benefites.

Phi.

Affinitie, consanguinitie, contractes, mariages, diuorces and a number of those which you recken, are thinges that depende vpon the lawes of GOD, and haue often times such questions incident to them as none but Bishoppes are fit to resolue.

Theo.

All vertues and vices, all the partes of mans life both priuate and publike, as namely the dueties of Princes, Counsellours, Captaines, Iudges, Parents, Husbandes, Masters, Sub∣iectes, Souldiers, Children, Wiues, and Seruants, yea the woords, thoughts and actions of all men depend in this respect vppon the woorde of God, whe∣ther they shall bee followed as lawfull or auoyded as vnlawfull, and haue

often tymes in them such questions, as none but diuines are ••it to resolue: will you therefore inferre that all crimes, causes and consultations dome∣sticall, Politicall and martiall are within the limittes of your spirituall iurisdiction, to bee guided, ordered and ended, as it seemeth good to your Ghostly fathers?

Phi.

Bishoppes haue power to binde and loose as well in all sinnes as in some.

Theo.

Bishoppes are to teach and instruct men what the will of GOD is in all priuate,* 2.550 publike, spirituall, temporall, yea ciuill and warlike affayres, but their authoritie goeth no farther than to denounce the woorde and dispence the Sacramentes in such sort as GOD hath pre∣scribed them: It passeth their power to make Lawes and appoynt ex∣ternall and corporall punishments for any sinne: that is proper to the sword, which GOD hath ordayned of purpose to compell and punish for the bet∣ter execution of his will and obseruation of his Lawe, which ••ee things of all other most spirituall. And therefore as Preachers by their office haue instruction and direction in all thinges both temporall and spirituall, to compare them and pronounce them consonant or dissonant with the Lawe of GOD, so Princes haue compulsion and correction annexed to their swordes as well for spirituall causes as temporall, or rather of the twaine to see Godlinesse and honestie preserued amongst men, than foode and ray∣ment prouided.

Phi.

This were a Paradoxe in deede that the Princes sworde was first ordayned by God rather for spirituall thinges and causes than for temporall.

Theo.

None at all,* 2.551 if you marke it well. To buyld and plant, sowe and reape, eate and drinke there needed no sworde on earth; but to preserue the Rules of pietie, charitie, sobrietie and equitie amongest men, for this cause were Magistrates first ordayned by God, and these bee thinges precise∣ly and properly called spirituall in the sacred Scriptures. The lawe is spi∣rituall, sayth the Apostle, and the commaundement (both the whole and e∣uery part of it) is holy, iust and good, which bee the right notes of spiritu∣all vertues. If then the sworde were first erected by GOD to defend and exe∣cute the partes and braunches of his Lawe, and the contentes of his Lawe be spirituall, ergo the Princes power was first ordayned of God for thinges spirituall and not onely for temporall, as you fondly dreame and are foully deceiued.

And this is the meaning of Saint Paul when hee sayth that Princes are not to bee feared for good workes but for euill.* 2.552 With whome Saint Peter agreeth calling the king preeminent for the punishment of euil do∣ers, and the prayse of them that doe well. Nowe good and euill are to bee measured by Gods law, not by mans: for as no man is good but only God, so no mans Lawe is the rule of good and euill but onely Gods. And tempo∣rall thinges bee neither good nor euill, but altogether indifferent, ergo Prin∣ces were not ordayned of God for temporall things, but the goods, bodyes,

and liues of their subiects were cōmitted to their handes for spirituall respects, that is, for the preseruation of fayth and good maners, which shall go for spiritu∣all thinges and causes, when your tithes and testaments shall stande backe for temporall.

Phi.

Understand you what temporall is?

Theo.

It should seeme you doe not by your diuiding temporall against spirituall.* 2.553 Repugnant to spiritual is carnall, corporall and naturall, not temporall, as you counter set them; and opposite to temporall is not spirituall, but eternall. And here you may see the falsenes and absurdnes of your diuision. The spirituall thinges which your Courtes discusse bee temporall not eternall: for after this life there bee no such questions nor actions. The keyes and Sacraments in which con∣sisteth your spirituall power bee not eternall but temporall, they serue for the Church in earth,* 2.554 not in heauen. Saint Paul will teache you that Prophe∣syings, tongues and knowledge, notwithstanding they bee giftes of the spi∣rite,* 2.555 and namely rehearsed among spirituall thinges by the holy Ghost, yet shall they cease and bee abolished. So that all the spiritual things which wee striue for, are but temporall, and thinges eternall bee neither vnder the Priestes power nor the Princes, but reserued onely to God and expec∣ted onely from God.

Phi.

Eternall they bee not, but spirituall they bee.

Theo.

Then may the selfe-same thinges bee both spirituall and tempo∣rall, which euerteth cleane your loose diuision of Temporall against spi∣rituall.

Phi.

* 2.556Temporall wee call those thinges that serue to maintaine this tem∣porall life.

Theo.

The necessities of this life are nourishment and ray∣ment, the rest are superfl••ities. When wee haue foode and apparel, sayth the Apostle, let vs bee therewith content, whatsoeuer is aboue is need∣lesse and noysome. Our Sauiour willing his not to bee carefull for their life, expresseth all thinges that bee needefull for this present life. Take no thought saying what shall wee eate?* 2.557 what shall wee drinke? or where∣with shall wee bee clothed? Your heauenly Father knoweth that you haue neede of these thinges. These thinges wee neede, and therefore are they promised: other thinges are not promised, and therefore we neede them not. If Princes were first ordained of God for those thinges onely which are needefull to maintaine this temporall life (for thinges superfluous are besides the promise and without the protection of GOD,) the power and charge of Princes shoulde consist in meates, drinkes and apparell, and Princes haue no farther care of their people than they haue of their houndes and Horses, to see them well fedde and smoothe kept, which is a very wicked and brutish opinion.

Phi.

They are besides to maintaine peace and quietnes among their sub∣iects.

Theo.

You might haue ioyned godlines and honestie therewithall, as S. Paul doeth,* 2.558 and then had you done well. I exhort, sayth hee, that prayers and supplications be made for Kings & for all that are in authoritie, that we

may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie.* 2.559 Prayers must bee made for kinges, that they may discharge their duties according to Gods ordinance, which is, that their subiects by their helpe and meanes, may leade an honest, godly and quiet life, godlinesse and honestie being the chiefest endes of our praiers and effectes of their powers. For God hath not put the goodes, landes, bodies and liues of men into Princes handes to cloath their backes and fill their bellies, but with praise to prouoke those that be willing, & to driue those that be not willing, with punishments, to imbrace pietie towards God, sobrietie towardes themselues, and charitie towardes their neighbours.

This you may learne by the regiment of euery priuate familie,* 2.560 which is both a part and a paterne of the common-wealth. Al parents and masters haue a farther charge ouer their children and seruantes than to see them defended frō hunger and colde. A wicked father is hee that feedeth and cloatheth; and nour∣••ereth not his children. Ye fathers, saith S. Paul, bring vp your children in the instruction and information of the Lord. Come children, saith Dauid, harken vnto me, I will teach you the feare of the Lord. Moses admonishing the whole people of the Iewes & as it were speaking to euery particular mā: Take heed, saith he, to thy selfe that thou forget not the thinges which thine eyes haue seene, and that they depart not out of thine heart all the dayes of thy life: but teach them thy sonnes and thy sonnes sonnes: and so God him∣selfe said to Moses, Gather mee the people togither, and I will cause them to heare my words, that they may learne to feare me all the dayes that they shall liue vpon the earth, and that they may teach their children. This di∣ligence God cōmended and rewarded in Abraham as the best part of a fathers duetie:* 2.561 I know him, saith God, that hee will commaund his sonnes and his houshold after him that they keepe the waie of the Lord, to do righteousnes and iudgement, that the Lord may bring vpon Abraham that (good) which he hath spoken vnto him. If priuate men be bound to traine vp their fami∣lies in the feare of God and loue of vertue, much more are Princes (the publike fathers of their countries and exalted to farre greater and higher authoritie by Gods ordinance than fathers or masters) I say much more are they in cōscience charged & by calling licenced to frame their subiectes to the true seruice of God & right obedience of his law, which be thinges not temporal but spiritual.

This king Dauid protesteth and promiseth vnto God he will doe in his king∣dom. Him,* 2.562 that priuilie slaundereth his neighbour, will I destroy. Mine eyes shall be to the faithfull of the Land, that they may dwell with mee, hee that walketh in a perfect way, he shal serue me. There shall no deceitful (or proude) person dwell within mine house, hee that telleth lies shall not re∣maine in my sight. Betimes will I destroy all the wicked of the Land that I may cut off al the workers of iniquitie from the citie of the Lord.

This christian Princes,* 2.563 as you heard before, made not onely a part but the chiefest part of their duetie. The true religion of God and honest conuersa∣tion (euen) of Priests (themselues) is our chiefest care, saith Iustinian. And

so Valentinian & Theodosius:* 2.564 The search of true religion we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Maiestie. With whom S. Austen agreeth de∣fending Felix a catholike Bishop against the Donatists for that he was cleared at a temporall bar by the Princes commandement of such crimes as were ob∣iected to him notwithstanding they were ecclesiasticall. One (of you) saith a Bi∣shop ought not to be cleared at the Proconsuls bar, as though he sought it & not rather the Emperour commanded that kinde of trial to be had, to whose charge that matter did most pertaine, and whereof the Prince was to render an account to God.

Of this mind were the Bishops of Rome themselues in former ages. Eleu∣therius not long after Christ wrote to Lucius king of this realm amongst other things in this wise:* 2.565 You are Gods Vicar in that kingdom. The natiōs & peo∣ple of Britanny are yours; whom you ought to gather & bring vnto concord & peace, vnto the faith & law of Christ, & vnto his (holy) Church, & to nou∣rish, maintaine, protect & rule, & alwaies to defende from iniuries, mischiefs & frō enemies. A king you shalbe, whiles you rule wel, which except you do you shalbe vnworthy the name of a king & loose it, which God forbid. So Pope Iohn made answere to Pipin & Charles. Illos decet vocari Reges, qui vigilā∣ter defendunt & regunt ecclesiam Dei & populum eius imitati Regem Psalmogra∣phum dicentem, non habitabit in medio domus meae, qui facit superbiam, &c. We must cal those kings, which doe carefully defend & rule the church of God & his people, after the example of king Dauid in his Psalmes, a proude man shall not dwel in mine house.

* 2.566This Gregory the great earnestly exhorted Edelberth vnto, the first that was christened of the Saxon kings in this Land. For this cause the almightie God bringeth good Princes to the regiment of his people, that by them hee may bestow the gifts of his mercy vpon al that are vnder thē. Therfore glorious son, the grace which you haue obtained at Gods hands keepe with a careful minde, & hasten to extend the faith of Christ in the nations vnder you. In∣crease the zeale of your vprightnes to their conuersion, subuert the worship of idols, ouerthrow their tēples, edifie the maners of your subiects by exhor∣ting, threatning, faire intreating, correcting, & shewing examples of wel do∣ing, that you may find him a rewarder in heauen, whose name & knowlege you haue dilated in earth. For so Constantine a most religious Emperor, reuo∣king the Romane Empire from the peruerse seruice of idols subdued the same with himself to the almighty God, our Lord Iesus Christ, & turned him self together with the people vnder him to God with al his heart. And nowe let your excellency labor to poure the knowledge of one God the father, the son & the holy Ghost into the Princes & people that are subiect to you, that he may make you partaker of his kingdom, whose faith you cause to be re∣ceiued and obserued in your kingdom.

This the kings of England before & since the cōquest were taught to be their duty & sworn to execute faithfully as the lawes of king Edward the good make

proofe,* 2.567 which William the Conquerer receiued & confirmed: where the office & charge of a king are thus expressed: A king, because he is the Lieutenant of the most high king, was appointed to this end that he should regard & gouerne the earthly kingdom and the people of God, and aboue all thinges his holie Church, and defend her from wronges, and roote out male factors from her, yea scatter and destroy them. Which except he do he can not iustly be cal∣led a king. A king ought to feare God, and aboue all thinges to loue him and to establish his commaundementes throughout his kingdom. He ought also to keepe,* 2.568 nourish, maintaine, and gouerne the holie Church of his kingdome with all integritie and libertie according to the constitutions of (his) fathers and predecessours, and to defende it against enemies, so as God may be honoured aboue all, and euer had in minde. He ought to establish good lawes and approued customes, and abolish euill (lawes and customes) and remoue them all out of his Realme. Hee ought to doe right iudgement in his kingdom, and execute iustice by the counsell of his Nobles. All these thinges ought the king to sweare in his owne person be∣fore he be crowned.

The verie Heathen perceiued & confessed this to be true. Aristotle a prophane Philosopher writing of the first institution of kings,* 2.569 sheweth how many things they were by office to medle with 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, A king (in olde time) was the leader in warres, pronouncer in iudge∣ments, and ouerseer of religion.* 2.570 And againe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Diuine things were committed to Princes (as part of their charge.) Al Mo∣narchies, kingdomes and common-wealthes, Assyrians, Persians, Medes, Grae∣cians, Romanes,* 2.571 Iewes, Gentiles, Pagans, Christians, haue euer kept this for a generall rule, that religion shoulde bee setled and establissed by publike lawes, and maintained by the Magistrates sword. So that if you take the de∣fence of pietie, the reward of honestie, and balance of equitie from the Princes charge, you run headlong against God and man to feede your owne appetites, and see not that which reason and nature taught the heathen to confesse, that as euery priuate man is bound to seeke and serue God aboue all thinges, so euerie societie of men, be it familie, citie or countrie, is likewise bound to haue a spe∣ciall and principall care of his seruice, which can not be done, vnlesse it be plan∣ted & preserued by publike lawes: & of these lawes as of all other amongst men, onely Magistrates be the makers, keepers and reuengers.

Phi.

Princes be charged after a sort with godlines, and honestie.

Theo

Your delaies do not answere our proofes. We shew the chiefest part of their charge to be godlines and honestie, which be thinges spiritual, not temporall.

Phi.

What if that be granted?

Theo.

If their duty stretch so far, their autho∣ritie must stretch as far.* 2.572 Their charge ceaseth where their power endeth. God neuer requireth princes to do that which he permitteth thē not to do: but rather his commanding them to care for those thinges is a full authorizing of them to medle with those thinges. If then godlines and honestie bee the chiefest part

of their charge, ergo they be likewise the chiefest end of their power, and conse∣quently Princes beare the sword chiefly for spiritual thinges and causes, & not, as you defend, onely for temporall.

Phi.

You put all thinges temporall, spirituall and ecclesiasticall into their handes.

Theo.

In all these thinges and other things whatsoeuer, we say, they beare the sword,* 2.573 and why should that displease you? God hath giuen them the sworde euen in those thinges which himselfe commaundeth and prescribeth, as namely faith and good manners, which be the chiefe contentes of his lawe and respectes of our life, and do you think it much that they beare the sword in those indifferent matters which Bishops haue agreed on for seemelinesse and good order to be kept in the church, no way comparable to those thinges which God hath put them in trust with, and made them defenders and auengers of?

* 2.574And if Princes shall not beare the sworde in thinges and causes ecclesiasti∣call, you must tell vs who shall. The Priest or the Prince of force must do it; and since by Gods law the Priest may not medle with the sword, the consequēt is ineuitable, that Princes alone are Gods ministers, bearing the sword to re∣ward and reuenge good and euill in all thinges and causes, bee they temporal, spirituall or ecclesiasticall, vnlesse you thinke that disorders and abuses ecclesi∣asticall should be freely permitted and neither preuented nor punished by pub∣like authoritie, which in these froward ages, would breede a plain contempt of all ecclesiasticall order and discipline, and hasten the subuersion of those king∣domes and common-wealthes where such confusion is suffered.

Phi.

The Rites and Ceremonies of the Church are not in the Princes power.* 2.575

Theo.

To deuise new Rites and Ceremonies for the Church, is not the Princes vocation, but to receiue and allow such as the Scriptures and Canons commend and such as the Bishops and Pastours of the place shall ad∣uise, not infringing the Scriptures or Canons. And so for all other ecclesiasti∣call thinges and causes, Princes be neither the deuisers nor directors of them, but the confirmers and establishers of that which is good, and displacers and reuengers of that which is euill, which power we say they haue in all thinges & causes, be they spirituall, ecclesiasticall or temporall.

Phi.

And what for excommunications and absolutions, be they in the Prin∣ces power also?* 2.576

Theo.

The abuse of excommunication in the Priest, & con∣tempt of it in the people, Princes may punish; excommunicate they may not, for so much as the keies are no part of their charge. But these particulars if we seuerally discusse we shall neuer end: the generall rules on which our assertion is grounded, may be sooner proposed and resolued.

First, to whom hath God committed the sword, to the Priest or the Prince?

Phi.

To whom say you?

Theo.

S. Paul expressely writeth of the Prince that He beareth the sword not without cause, and is Gods minister to reuenge him that doth euil. And our Sauiour seuerely forbiddeth Peter & the rest of his A∣postles to medle with the sword: All that take the sword shall perish by the sworde; and to them all, You know that kinges of Nations raigne ouer thē,

and they that be great exercise authoritie, with you it shall not be so.* 2.577 The sword is but the signe of publike and Princely power, and where the thing is not lawfull, the signe is vnlawfull. Since then the Lord interdicteth his A∣postles and messengers all princely power, it is euident, the sword which is but a signe thereof, is likewise interdicted them.

Thus much Bernard sticketh not to tell Pope Eugenius to his face.* 2.578 It is the Lordes voice in the Gospell: Kinges of Nations are Lordes ouer them, and they that haue power on them are called gracious, and the Lord infer∣reth, you shall not be so. It is a cleare case, the Apostles are forbidden do∣minion. Go thou then,* 2.579 saith Bernard to the Pope, and vsurpe if thou dare, either an Apostleship if thou be a Prince, or dominion if thou be Apostolik. Thou art expressely forbidden one of them. If thou wilt haue both, thou shalt loose both. The paterne of an Apostle is this, dominion is interdicted, seruice is inioyned. Gird thy selfe with thy sworde, the sworde of the spirit, which is the word of God. And this Pope Nicholas fairely confesseth.* 2.580 The church of God hath no sword but the spirituall, wherewith she quickeneth, she killeth not.

Your owne law saith:* 2.581 It is easily proued of Bishops and other clergimen whatsoeuer, that they may not either by their owne authoritie, or by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome, take weapon in hand (& exercise the ma∣teriall sworde) & addeth this reason, For euery man besides him and his au∣thoritie which hath lawfull power and which, as the Apostle saith, beareth the sworde not without cause, to whom euerie soule ought to bee subiect, euery man, I say, that without this authoritie taketh the sword, shall perish with the sword.

He that beareth the sword may lawfully put malefactors to death, and wage warre with his enimies when neede so requireth, which Bishops may not doe. The weapons of our warfare are not carnall,* 2.582 saith S. Paul. Quid Episcopis cum bello? What haue Bishops to do with batle,* 2.583 saith Athanasius; & Ambrose, Pugnare non debeo: I ought not to fight. If they may not fight much lesse kil, if they may do neither, they can not beare the sword, which is appointed by God, & receiued of men to doe both.

The words of our Sauior are cleare with vs for the negatiue. My kingdom, saith he,* 2.584 is not of this world. If then your Priests, Prelats & Popes wil be the seruants of Christ, they must chalēge no worldly kingdom as frō him or in his name. The seruant is not aboue his master. If the master with his own mouth haue denied it, the seruāts may not affirm it, or vsurp it. The souldiers of Christ must not intangle them-selues with secular affaires, much lesse make them∣selues Lords and iudges of earthly matters, which office properly belongeth to the sworde and must be sustained of all those that beare the sword.

The Popes themselues before their power and pride grew so great, were of this opinion with vs.* 2.585 When the truth (which is Christ) was once come, af∣ter that, saith Pope Nicolas, neither did the Emperour take vppon him

the Bishops right,* 2.586 nor the Bishop vsurpe the Emperours name, because the same mediatour of God and man, the man Christ Iesus, distinguisheth the offices of ech power with proper actions and different dignities, to this end that (the Bishop) which is a souldier vnto God shoulde not intangle and snare himselfe with wordly affaires, and againe (the Prince) which is occu∣pied in earthly matters should not be Ruler of diuine things.

* 2.587The very same text, word for word, your Decrees make Cyprian write to Iulian the Emperour, if those be Cyprians wordes, and not rather an impu∣dent forgerie in his name. For how could Cyprian that died vnder Valerian 260. after Christ, write to Iulian that began his raigne 360. after Christ? But such proppes are fittest to bolster vp your kingdom of darkenesse and error.

Sure it is, which the wordes of our Sauiour apparantly proue, that all the Disciples and Apostles of Christ are straitly charged not to medle with prince∣ly Scepters and swordes, and therefore out of all question only Princes beare the sworde within their owne Realmes and dominions, for so much as that ho∣nour and power is expressely prohibited and interdicted by the Lord himselfe to all Preachers and Bishops.

Phi.

This wee woulde haue graunted you with halfe these wordes.

Theo.

And this wee woulde haue depende not on your grant, which is fickle, but on such proofes as we might make iust accoūt of.

Phi.

How then?

Theo.

As the first is apparant, that onely Princes haue the sword commit∣ted to their charge by Gods appointmēt, so the next is as euident that the sword I meane the publike authoritie of Magistrats in Christian common-wealthes,* 2.588 hath been, may be, and should be vsed for the receiuing, establishing and de••en∣ding of that which is good, and prohibiting, abolishing and punishing of that which is euill in all spirituall and ecclesiasticall thinges and causes, as well as in temporall: which the sacred Scriptures, the auncient Fathers, the Church Stories, the lawes and examples of al ages and countries do sufficiently proue, as you saw before.

Phi.

This is not it that we stand on.

Theo.

This is that we affirme, stand you on what you lift.

Phi.

If this be granted, what will you conclude?

Theo.

If this be proued, you shall see what we conclude. If it bee not, shew where the defect is.

Phi.

That onely Princes beare the sword within their own realms, which may be and should bee vsed for the receiuing, establishing, and defending of the faith & Cannons of the church & all thinges incident or pertinent to the same, and for prohibiting and punishing whatsoeuer is repugnant to either, in this we finde no defect; Let vs therefore see what you will infer.

The.

First then the words of our oth, that Her Highnes is the only gouernor of this realm (bearing the sword) as wel in al spiritual,* 2.589 or ecclesiastical things & causes as tēporal, be not only tolerable & resonable, but such by your own cō∣fessiō as we may truly defend, & you can not iustly confute.* 2.590 Next the absurdities which you bring against vs, as if we deriued the spirituall power of preaching, baptizing, binding, loosing, imposing handes and offering prayers to God,

from the Princes Soueraigne right and title, which we doe not: all these ab∣surdities I say bee mere follies, grounded vpon the carelesse mistaking, if not spitefull peruerting of our wordes. Thirdly, your defacing and im••••ouing the Princes sworde,* 2.591 and aduauncing and defending against all Princes one that shall commaund them and depose them at his pleasure, what else is this but a resisting of the powers which God hath ordained, & ••recting and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in the Church of Christ without authoritie, that vnder the couert of binding and feeding shall make him-selfe Lorde of all kingdomes and countries?

Phi.

Supreme is the worde that wee most impugne.

Theo.

And Su∣preme is the worde which you shall neuer ouerthrow, being a plaine and ma∣nifest deduction out of the wordes of S. Paul. Let euerie soule,* 2.592 saith hee, bee subiect to the superiour Powers. If all men must be subiect to them, ergo they be superiour to all, and superiour to all is supreme. Consult both your Seminaries, and refell this one sequele if you can: marie cauill not as your Apologie doeth, that Supreme bringeth Christ and his Sainctes in subiection to Princes. The Apostle speaketh of mortall men, and so doe wee: And in comparison, with them if Sainct Pauls words be true that euery soule must be subiect to Princes as vnto Superiours; our consequent is irrefutable, that Princes be supreme.

Phi.

S. Paul maketh them superiours ouer all persons but not ouer all thinges.* 2.593

Theo.

That distinction is ours, not yours: we did euer interprete supreme for superiour to all men within their dominions.

Phi.

And so wee graunt them to bee, but not in all thinges. For in temporall thinges they be superiours to all men, in spirituall they bee not.

Theo.

That restraint commeth too late.* 2.594 The holy Ghost charging you to be subiect to them sim∣ply without addition, it passeth your reach to limit in what thinges you will, and in what thinges you will not be subiect.

Againe wee haue inuinciblie proued and you haue clearely confessed that Princes may commaunde for trueth,* 2.595 and that they beare the sworde for the perfect obseruation and execution of Gods lawe, and publike defence of the faith and Cannons of the Church, which bee thinges not temporall but spirituall; and out of all question, where they may by Gods law command, all men must obey them, not onely for feare of wrath; but also for conscience sake.

Lastly what better proofe can you wish that in all thinges they bee superi∣ours to all men, than that their sworde may not bee resisted for any tempo∣rall or spirituall cause, but must bee rather indured with meekenes & reue∣rence, though they persecute truth, & shew themselues enemies to God and his church? For so the Lord in his owne person taught vs, & his Apostles after him, in their writings & sufferings followed the same course.

Phi.

Had Heathen tyrantes lawfull power ouer Christ and his Apo∣stles in spirituall thinges?

Theo.

Lawfull power of the sworde to re∣warde and punish, they had ouer Christ and his Apostles in thinges and causes

spiritual.* 2.596 The Lord of grace and life being deliuered by the Priests to the Ma∣gistrate for blasphemie which is a spirituall crime, refused not the iudge, but submitting him-selfe to the Princes Deputie, confessed Pilates power ouer him to bee from heauen, notwithstanding Pilates sentence against him was wrongfull and wicked.* 2.597 S. Paul imprisoned for preaching the Gospel required to be sent to Caesar and to make answere before Caesar concerning his doctrine and doings. S. Peter patiently endured Neroes sword euen vnto death for tea∣ching the trueth, and warned all Christians to doe the like. Let none of you suffer (publike punishment) as a murderer,* 2.598 or as a theefe, or a malefactour, or as a medler with other mens matters: but if (any man suffer) as a Chri∣stian (that is for religion) let him not be ashamed but glorifie God in this re∣spect.* 2.599 They that resist (especially whē they be punished for religiō) shal receiue to themselues iudgement) and damnation; for God is then most dishonoured when wee make religion a buckler for rebellion. If none must resist that suffer as christians, ergo by Gods ordinance, al men be subiect to the Princes sword, e∣uen in spirituall causes as well as in temporall.

Phi.

* 2.600 To suffer, but not to obey.

Theo.

Suffering is as sure a signe of subiec∣tion as obeying. And yet whom you must indure commaunding that which is euill in matters of religion, those you must obey when they commaunde that which is good in the selfe same causes: which you heard concluded out of S. Augustine before. Whosoeuer will not obey the lawes of Emperors which are made for the truth of God, incurreth a grieuous iudgement. And againe, When Emperours hold truth they commaund for truth, which whosoeuer despiseth purchaseth to himselfe iudgement. So that all men are bound to be subiect to the sword in all thinges be they temporall or spirituall, not only by suffering, but also by obeying; mary with this caution, that in thinges which bee good and agreeable to the law of God, the sword must be obeyed: in things that be otherwise, it must be indured.

* 2.601This then is the supreme power of Princes which we soberly teach and you so bitterly detest; that they be Gods ministers in their owne dominions, bea∣ring the sword, freely to permit, and publikely to defend that which God com∣maundeth in faith and good manners, and in ecclesiasticall discipline to receiue and establish such rules and orders as the Scriptures and Canons shal decide to be needfull and healthfull for the Church of God in their kingdomes. And as they may lawfully commaund that which is good in all thinges and causes, bee they temporall, spirituall, or ecclesiasticall, so may they with iust force re∣moue whatsoeuer is erronious, vitious, or superstitious within their Landes, and with externall losses and corporall paines represse the brochers and abet∣ters of heresies and all impieties: from which subiection vnto Princes, no man within their Realmes, Monke, Priest, Preacher, nor Prelate is exempted; and without their Realmes no mortall man hath any power from Christ iudicially to depose them, much lesse to inuade them in open field, least of al to warrāt their subiectes to rebell against them.

These be the things which we contend for,* 2.602 & not whether Princes be Christs masters, or the functions to preach, baptise, impose hands & forgiue sinnes must be deriued from the Princes power and lawes, or the Apostles might enter to conuert countries without Caesars delagations, those bee iestes and shiftes of yours, no braunches nor sequeles of our opinion. You see the partes & proofes of our doctrine, neither draw back, nor dally, but go to the matter: and say what fault you finde with our assertion.

Phi.

The former branches of your assertion might be receiued, if it were a∣greed, by whom the sword should be directed.* 2.603 We our selues confesse that the Princes sworde should permit, defend and execute that which is good in all spi∣rituall and ecclesiasticall thinges, causes and iudgementes, and repell and pu∣nish the contrarie. But least Princes shoulde wade too farre or tread awry, we would haue their swords guided, and if need be restrained by such as haue grea∣ter experience and better intelligence in those affaires. For ecclesiasticall rules and Canons be not incident to the Princes vocation, and therefore no maruell if Princes be raw in those thinges wherewith they be not acquainted. And since the danger is great if they command for error, & their skil not so great but that they may soone misse the truth, why should you bee loth that others of deeper iudgement & exacter knowledge, whom God hath placed to teach both priuate men & Princes their duties in those cases, should direct & moderate the swordes of Princes for feare least they should be missed to the ruine of themselues, and many thowsandes with them?

Theo.

We be not loth they should be directed, but rather exhort all Prin∣ces to take great care,* 2.604 and spare no paines to come by faithfull and true direc∣tion in those thinges that pertaine to God. For if in temporall matters where the losses are but temporal, they do nothing without the mature and sound ad∣uise of their graue & trustie Counsellours, how inexcusable is their negligence, if in heauenly things where the bodies & soules of them-selues & their subiectes may be lost for euer, they serue their affectiōs & seek not his wil that set them in place, & gaue them power to maintain his truth, & safegard his Church?

Phi.

We then agree on both sides,* 2.605 that Princes must be directed.

Theo.

We do.

Phi.

If they must be directed, ergo by Bishops.

Theo.

Bishops for their calling and learning are the likeliest men to direct them right, but yet your ergo doth not hold. It is not enough for them to be Bishops, they must also be tea∣chers of truth, before they may claime to be directours of Princes.

Phi.

Who be more likely to teach truth than Bishops?

Theo.

I said before they were likelie, but your conclusion inforceth a necessitie which you can not proue. Many Bi∣shops haue taught lies and seduced Princes in the church of God, and therefore not their dignitie, but their doctrine is it that Princes must regarde: for nei∣ther Prince, nor people stand bound to the persons of men, but vnto the truth of God, and vnto their teachers so long as they swarue not from truth.

Phi.

And who shall be iudge of truth?

Theo.

Absolute iudge of truth,* 2.606 neither Prince nor Priest may chalenge to bee.

Phi.

Why so?

Theo.

God

is truth, & of God I trust no man may be iudge. The son of God saith of himself, I am truth:* 2.607 & S. Iohn giueth this record of the spirit of God, The spirit is truth. Ye can therfore be no iudges of truth vnles ye will be iudges of God.* 2.608

Phi.

Who shal then be iudge of truth?

The.

Who but Christ?

Phi.

He shalbe iudge at the last daie.

Theo.

Hee shall then giue generall and finall iudgement of all men, but in the meane time hee onely is the soueraine and supreme iudge of truth. The Father hath committed all iudgement to the sonne, and * 2.609 my iudge∣ment, saith Christ, is iust. This strife, saith Augustine, requireth a iudge. Iudi∣cet ergo Christus: Let Christ be therefore iudge. In earth, saith Optatus, of this matter there can be no iudgement,* 2.610 we must seeke for a iudge from hea∣uen. But why knocke wee at heauen, when as we haue his will here in the Gospell?

Phi.

They mean that Christ speaketh in his church at this day by his word, & so iudgeth.* 2.611

Theo.

And we meane that his word is truth, and therefore your Bi∣shops can not be iudges of the word of Christ, but they must be iudges of Christ himselfe, that speaketh by his word, which is no small presumption.

Phi.

Shall not the Church be iudge of the Scriptures?

Theo.

My sheepe, saith Christ, heare my voice, they be no iudges of his voice. A iudge of the lawe is no * 2.612 obseruer of the law, as S. Iames auoucheth: and since the whole church is bound to obey the law of God, they be no iudges of the law. Inferius est nobis quicquid iudicamus. It is inferior to vs whatsoeuer we be iudges of: * 2.613 Eternam igitur legem mundis animis fas est cognoscere, iudicare non fas est. The eternall law of (God) therefore, it is lawfull for cleane harts to know, it is not law∣full for them to iudge. Wee * 2.614 must not, saith Augustine to God, iudge of so high authoritie, neither of the booke which is thine, because we submit our vnderstanding to it. And againe: To the canons of the Scriptures pertaine * 2.615 certaine bookes of the Prophetes and Apostles, quos omnino iudicare non au∣deamus, the which in any case wee may not dare to iudge. And this is the reason, there may be no iudge of truth, where no daunger of error is: And of the Scriptures S. Austine saith,* 2.616 Quod omni errore careant dubitare nefarium est, It is a wickednes to make a doubt whether there be any error in them or no: therefore there may be no iudges of them: but the whole church must be subiect to them, and with all humilitie beleeue them.

Phi.

The Bishops be no iudges of the Scriptures whether they bee true or no; that as you proue is no doubt, and therefore needeth no iudge: But in this they be iudges, whether the Scriptures be mistaken of others or no.

Theo.

Then bee they no iudges of truth, which is the thing that I first affirmed, but of them selues and others which be subiect to errour and ignoraunce.

Phi.

Yet they be iudges of errour,* 2.617 though not of trueth.

Theo.

If you take iudging for discerning, as the worde doeth often signifie, they can not bee tea∣chers of trueth,* 2.618 vnlesse they can discerne trueth from errour: But onelie God is to limit and appoint by his word, what shall stand for truth & what for errour. With that Bishops haue nothing to do, they must heare and beleeue the

voice of the great Sheepeheard Christ Iesus, as well as the meanest sheepe in his fould.

Phi.

Wee grant you that, so you grant vs this, that only Bishops bee discerners of truth.

Theo.

A liberall offer: You will graunt vs a knowen truth vpon condition that we shall grant you a manifest vntruth. Make earth and ashes, if you dare, to bee iudges of their Lord and maister which is in heauen, or deny Bishops when they be at the highest, to be the seruants of Christ; yea happie be they if they be so much: In these things we neither stande at your almes, nor aske your consents, we be right sure and dare not deny them, & there∣fore our assertion is without contradiction: yours is vtterly false, that only Bi∣shops be discerners of truth.* 2.619 For as Bishops ought to discern which is truth be∣fore they teach, so must the people discern who teacheth right before they beleeue.

Phi.

Shal the people iudge their Pastors? you be so new fangled that you say you know not what.

Theo.

We haue the words and warrant of the holy Ghost for that which we say. Beleeue not euery Spirit, but trie the Spirits whether they be of god: for many false prophets are gone out into the world. Prophets be teachers, & if they must be tried before they be trusted, ergo Pastours must be discerned before they be beleeued, & by whom trow you; but by those that should beleeue them, that is by their hearers? The same precept our Sauiour gaue to the multitudes that followed him.* 2.620 Beware of false Prophets (or teachers) which come to you in sheepes clothing, but inwardly they bee rauening wolues. By their fruites you shall know them. If all must beware them, and are taught how to knowe them, ergo they may lawfully trie them, before they beleeue them. This wisdome the Lord himselfe commendeth in his sheep.* 2.621 My sheepe heare my voice, and they follow me. A stranger they will not follow but flie from him.

Phi.

Yet they be no Iudges of Doctrine.* 2.622

Theo.

If you take iudgeing for discerning, as it is often vsed, the people must be discerners and iudges of that which is taught: S. Paul himselfe alloweth them that leaue. I speake as vnto them that haue vnderstanding; iudge ye what I say. And againe, Iudge with your selues, is it seemely that a woman pray vnto God vncouered? And to that end belongeth this exhortation of the Lord which is often found in the scrip∣tures:* 2.623 Looke that no man seduce you. For the people of God should haue their senses * 2.624 exercised in the word of trueth, to discerne both good and bad, and in that respect the Apostle sticketh not to say: Let the Prophets speake two or three and let the rest iudge.

Origē in teaching the people, submitteth himself to the Apostles R••le in these words: Vos facite quod scriptū est, vt vno dicente, omnes examinent. Me ergo dicente quod sentio, vos discernite & examinate si quid rectū est, aut min{us} rectū. Do you that which is written; one speaking, al (the rest) examine. Whiles thē I say what I think, try & iudge you what is right & what is not. Ambrose when Auxen. of∣fered to dispute before some that were heathen men & not christned, thus tradu∣ceth him to the people of Millā.* 2.625 Auxentius knowing you not to be ignorant of the faith, hath shunned your iudgemēt & chosen foure or fiue heathen men.

Then in that he hath chosen infidels, he is worthy to be condemned (of chri∣stians) because he hath reiected the Apostles precept, where he saith, Dare any of you hauing ought against another, be iudged vnder the vniust & not rather vnder the Saints? You see then that which hee hath offered is against the Apostles authority. But what speak I of the Apostle, when the Lord him selfe proclaimeth by his Prophet, Heare me my people that know (what be∣longeth to) iudgement, in whose hart my law is? God saith, heare me my people that know iudgement: Auxentius saith, You know not how to iudge: you see that he contemneth God in you, which refuteth the sense of (this) heauenly oracle. For the people, in whose hart the law of God is doth iudge. Who then doth you wrong, he that refuseth or he that referreth himselfe to your audience?

Phi.

The people must depend on their teachers mouthes & not be iudges ouer them. He that heareth you, heareth me, saith our sauior to his Apostles & their successors,* 2.626 & he that despiseth you, despiseth me. And whosoeuer shal not re∣ceiue you, nor heare your words going forth out of the house or citie, shake off the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it shalbe more tolerable for the land of the Sodomits & Gomorrheās in the day of iudgemēt than for that city.* 2.627

Theo.

As the Pastors haue authority from Christ to preach the truth, & wo be to them that resist the Preachers of truth;* 2.628 so haue all hearers both liberty to dis∣cerne & a charge to beware seducers, giuen them by the same Lord, & wo bee to them that do it not. Take heed, saith our Sauior, that no man seduce you. For many shal come in my name, saying: I am Christ, & shal deceiue many. Then if any shal say to you,* 2.629 Lo here is Christ, or there, beleeue it not. For there shal arise false Christs & false Prophets, & shal shew great signes & wōders. Behold I haue told you before. Wherefore if they shal say vnto you, beholde he is in the desart, go not forth: behold he is in the secret places, beleeue it not. He that requireth al men to receiue such as he sendeth, chargeth al men to auoide such as pretend his name when they are not sent: and how can the peo∣ple do either if they haue not skill & leaue to discerne them both?

Phi.

Our Lord gaue that honour to his very enemies, that the people should obey them,* 2.630 in regard of Moses chaire. Vpon the chaire of Moses haue fitten the Scribes and the Pharisees. All thinges therfore, whatsoeuer they shall say to you, obserue ye and do ye, but according to their workes do ye not for they say & do not.

Theo.

Thinke you that Christ cōmanded the people to be∣leeue the Pharisees,* 2.631 whatsoeuer they taught, or that he affirmed the Pharisees could not teach amisse, because they sate in Moses chaire?

Phi.

He willed the people to beleeue thē for that they succeeded Moses.

The.

Though the pharisees were wicked hipocrits, yet because it was their functiō to teach y^e people in their Synagogues, he willeth thē to be obeied so lōg as they said nothing but y^t which the hearers knew to be agreeable to the law of God, but if they speak any thing of their own besides the law, that the people were to reiect & detest. And so S. Aust. expoundeth the place,* 2.632 Sua verò si velint docere, nolite audire, nolite facere: But

if they will teach their owne (deuises besides the law,) neither heare (them) nor doe (as they did you.) Which is plainly commaunded by Christ him∣selfe in the Gospell,* 2.633 Take heede and beware of the leauen of the Pharisees and Saduces, that is (as the holie Ghost doth interprete in the same chapter) of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Saduces.

This then is euident. The law of God the people were to receiue and obey at the Pharisees mouthes, though they were hypocrites, because they were ap∣pointed by God for the time to be teachers: But the leauen of the Pharisees, that is their mixtures wherewith they tempered and infected the lawe of God, the people were to beware and auoide: Ergo the people were required to dis∣cerne between the law of God and the leauen of the Pharisees, and charged to follow the first and forsake the last.

And why impugne you that which the holy Ghost so often commaundeth and therefore permitteth?* 2.634 Trie the spirites whether they be of God, as you heard before.* 2.635 Trie all thinges and holde fast that which is good. Be not vnwise but vnderstand what the wil of the Lord is. Be renewed in your minde that you may discerne what the good and acceptable and perfect will of God is.* 2.636 This I pray that your loue may abound yet more and more in knowledge & in all iudgement, that you may discerne the thinges which are best. He that is spirituall discerneth all thinges. You may haue a thowsand like both places & proofes that the faithfull should looke and take heede that they be not seduced. And except you will excuse the people before God, if you misleade them, why should you bar them al trial & vnderstanding whether they folow faith vnto sal∣uation, or withdraw thēselues vnto perdition? Whē the blind leadeth the blind and they fall both into the pit of destruction, is not hee that followeth as sure to perish as he that leadeth?

Phi.

We be content they shall bee discerners but no iudges of their Pastors.

Theo.

And Bishops themselues be no iudges but discerners of truth.* 2.637

Phi.

We be frō the matter that we began with: we were speaking of Princes.

The.

We bee right enough. Princes haue the same charge to obey the trueth & beware false Prophets that priuate men haue; ergo they must haue the same freedome to discerne spirites, and refuse straunge doctrines, that all the faithfull haue. Christ hath not appointed one way for Princes & an other for their people to come by the knowledge of his wil, but the same way for both: Ergo the precepts, which I last alleadged & also the former, pertaine to Magistrates as well as to subiects; & to make the rule more generall, in discerning, beleeuing and obeying the truth, there is no distinctions of persons with God.

Phi.

We receiue your rule, & infer vpon it, that these words of S. Paul, Obey your rulers,* 2.638 bind as well Princes as priuate men to be subiect to Bishops.

The.

Take with you this limitation, (which haue spoken to you the word of God) which S. Paul giueth euen in the same chap. & infer what you can. To Bishops speaking the worde of God, Princes as wel as others must yeeld obediēce: but if Bishops passe their commission and speake besides the worde of God, what

they list, both Prince and people may despise them.

With this limitation our Sauiour sent his Apostles into the worlde: Go, teach all Nations:* 2.639 but what? To obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue com∣maunded you. And this the Apostles them-selues do not conceale in doing their message. The word of the Lord, saith Peter, indureth for euer, and this is the word which is preached among you.* 2.640 That which we haue seene, saith Iohn, & heard, that declare we to you, that ye may haue felloship with vs. Let a * 2.641 man, saith Paul, so think of vs as of the ministers of Christ & stewards of the mysteries of God. And as for the rest it is requisite in stewardes that euery man be found faithful. And to the Galat.* 2.642 Though we (our selues) or an Angel from heauen preach vnto you otherwise than that we haue preached vnto you, let him be accursed. Preach I now man or God? I certifie you, bre∣thren, that the Gospel which was preached of me, was not after mā: for I nei¦ther receiued it of man, neither was I taught it (by mā) but by the reuelatiō of Iesus Christ. And this maketh him so diligētly distinguish the precepts of Christ from his own counsels,* 2.643 To the maried I command, not I, but the Lord: to the rest I speake, and not the Lord: Yea hee requireth of them no more but that they follow him, so far forth as he followeth Christ: Be ye followers of me, euē as I am of Christ,* 2.644 that is no longer nor farther than I ••ollow Christ.

Chrysostom alleadging the words of S. Paul, Obey your ouerseeers, doth thus limit them,* 2.645 Si quidem fidei dogma peruertat, etiamsi Angelus sit, obedire noli: But if hee peruert any point of faith, though hee be an Angell, obey him not. And streight after, Ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet si quid dixerit proprium, si quid hymanū, sed Apostolo Christū in se loquentē circumferenti We must not obey Paul himself, if he speak any thing of his own, or as a mā, but (we must obey) the Apostle bearing Christ about that speaketh in him. * 2.646 Nobis nihil ex nostro arbitrio indulgere licet: It is not lawful for vs, saith Tertulliā, to deuise any thing of our selues nor to follow that which others haue deuised. We haue the A∣postles of the Lord for our authors who deuised nothing of their own heads, but deliuered faithfully to the nations, the doctrine which they receiued of Christ. Therfore though an Angel frō heauen should preach otherwise, we should coūt him accursed. * 2.647 Euery teacher is a seruant of the law, because he may neither ad of his own sense vnto the law, nor according to his own cō∣ceit take any thing frō the law, but preach that onely which is founde in the law. If Apostles and Angels bee tied to this condition, much more others, & our first addition (which speake vnto you the worde of God) is euerywhere intended in the Bishops function though it be not expressed.

Phi.

If Bishops then speake the word of God, Princes must obey them.

The.

If princes resist the word of truth in the Preachers mouth they resist not the messenger, but the master that sent him.

Phi.

Hence we conclude that Bishops be superiour to Princes.

Theo.

By what Logicke?

Phi.

Princes must obey Bishops speaking the word of God, ergo Bishops be superiour to Princes.

Theo.

If Bishops spake to Princes in their

owne names,* 2.648 your argument were somwhat; but since they speak to them as ser∣uants in their masters name, which is Lord of all and ouer all, your consequent is very foolish. For let any Prince send his seruāt in a message to the Nobles of his Realm: wil you reason thus? The seruant speaking in the princes name that which is cōmanded him, must be obeied of the Nobles, ergo the seruāt is superi∣our to the Nobles. I thinke you will not, or if you do, you reason very loosely.

Phi.

If the seruant haue commission from the Prince though he be neuer so meane and the Nobles haue none, well they may excell him in Nobilitie, but sure he excelleth them in authoritie.

Theo.

He doth in those thinges which his Commission reacheth vnto.

Phi.

But Bishops haue commission from God to rule y^• church, ergo they be superior to princes in the regiment of the church. Our assumptiō we proue by S. Paul: Take heed to your selues & to the whol flock, wherin the holy Ghost hath placed you Bishops to rule the church of God.* 2.649

Theo.

Your lucke is euil to light on such vnperfect proofes.* 2.650 I told you before, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 did signifie to feed the church or flocke of Christ, & not to rule, You now catch hold of the same corruption againe, & make it the ground of your conclu∣sion. If you trust not vs, your selues in your Rhemish Testament haue so tran∣slated the word in S. Peter. Feed the flock of God which is amōg you, which is in the Greeke, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. The very children knowe that these three wordes 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, A sheepeheard, (his) flocke, and to feede, haue one and the same deriuation, and therefore one and the same sig∣nification.* 2.651 The holy Ghost himselfe vseth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 as Synonima, that is words of the same power & force. For when Christ repeated this charge, feed my sheep, thrise•• to Peter in the Gospel of S. Iohn, his words are the secōd time 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: & the third time, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Now draw your assumptiō from S. Pauls wordes rightly translated & what conclude you? Bishops haue commission from God to feede the Church (or flocke of Christ) which Prin∣ces haue not, ergo Bishops by their calling may preach and Princes may not. This is al you can infer, and this is nothing against vs.

Phi.

They be superiors to Princes in feeding the flock of Christ: ergo they be their superiors.* 2.652

Theo.

That sequele is not good. In building Masons be superiour to Princes, in sayling Mariners, in fighting, Souldiers; be these men ergo simplie superiour to Princes? I trow not.

Phi.

Preaching the word, dispensing the Sacraments & pardoning the sinnes or men, which are the Bishops charge, be things far greater & higher than any that Princes haue.

Theo.

The perfection & operation of these things which you name, depend not on the wils of men, but on the power of God, & therefore the honor & estimation of them must serue for the praise of Gods glorie & not for the increase of mans pride: The Ghostly worke is Gods, the bodilie seruice is the Priests: wherein Iudas the thiefe, Simon the sorcerer, and Demas the renegate may chalenge as much as Iames the iust, Peter the zealous and Iohn the faith∣full, the three pillers of Christs church.

Per ministros dispares Dei munu•• equale est, quia non illorum, sed eius est.* 2.653 By

ministers (far) vnlike, the gift of God, saith Augustine, is the same, because it is not theirs but his.* 2.654 Christ sent him that betraied him, with the rest of his Disciples to preach the kingdom of heauē, to shew that the gifts & (graces) of God are bestowed on thē, which receiue the same with faith, though he that deliuereth them be as bad as Iudas. The things which God giueth, saith Chrysostom,* 2.655 cā not be made perfect by the holines of the Priest: for all is done by his heauenly grace. Only the Priests office is to open his mouth, but it is God that worketh all the Priest doth only accomplish the (external signe or act.) Men, saith Ambrose,* 2.656 in the remission of sinnes ministerium suum exhibēt, non ius alicuius potestatis exercent, do their seruice, but exercise no right of au∣thority. They pray, God giueth; the seruice is by man, the gift is frō the hea∣uenly power.

Preaching the word, is a worthier part of Apostolike dignity, thā ministring the sacraments, by the witnes of S. Paul himself saying,* 2.657 Christ sent me not to baptise, but, to preach the gospel. And yet of preachers the scripture saith,* 2.658 Nei∣ther he that planteth is any thing nor he that watereth, but God that giueth the increase. So that neither in the word, nor sacraments, you may chalenge a∣ny thing to man, but only the corporal seruice which is common to the godly w^t heretiks & hypocrits: the rest is proper to God, & may not be ascribed to men, without iniurie to him that is the true author of them & mighty worker in thē. And therefore the reason which you draw from the perfection of Gods graces in the Church,* 2.659 to the preferring & aduauncing of the Bishops person before the Princes, is very vitious, because the subiection & reuēge due to the sword is im∣parted to the Princes person, the dignitie & vertue of the word & sacraments is not to the Bishops.

Phi.

The Priests commission is higher than the Princes, & why should not the priests person be aboue the Princes?

The.

The priest hath his cōmission as a ser∣uant to cal for subiection & obedience,* 2.660 not vnto himself but vnto his Lord & Ma∣ster that sent him. And this subiection, because it is giuen to God, infinitely ex∣ceedeth that which Princes may looke for. But what is this to the Priests per∣son, who must preach himself to be The * 2.661 seruant of meaner men thā Princes, & make himself The * 2.662 seruant of al men, if he note wel the words of his commis∣sion, and not striue with Princes for superioritie?

Phi.

For their persons I wil not greatly stād w^t you, but certainly their power is aboue y^e princes.

The.

You ••un so fast that you forget where you should be. We were debating who should direct princes in matters of faith: you be slipt from y^t, & entring a new questiō who shal correct thē, where the former is yet vnfinished.

Phi.

You did cōfesse that princes must obey Bishops so long as they speak truth.

The.

And you would not deny but princes might refuse bishops if they swarued frō faith.

Phi.

But who shalbe iudge whether they swarue frō faith or no?

Theo.

That is the question which I said was not yet resolued. If Bishops teach truth, surely princes must obey thē, I mean the word of truth in their mouthes. If they go frō truth, thē princes must auoide thē. To this we both consent, but the doubt

is whether trueth bee tyed to some certaine Persons or places where Princes may find it & whence Princes must fet it;* 2.663 or else whether Princes as all others must vse the best meanes they can to discerne true Preachers from false, and so be directed by such as they thinke to be sent from God.

Phi.

You would haue Princes and others leane to their owne iudgements and follow their owne fansies. We would haue them sticke to the Church, and looke to those Pastours whose faith can not faile.

Theo.

Such Pastours bee worth the following if you can point vs to them.

Phi.

Peters fayth can not fayle: follow that faith and you can not misse the trueth.* 2.664

Theo.

He that keepeth Peters fayth in deede can not want the trueth, because Peter beleeued the truth: but we bee nothing the nearer for this. Pauls fayth was likewise trueth, and so was the faith of Matthew, Iames, Iohn, Iude, and others: but who must be cre∣dited what fayth Peter and the rest preached? Shall we take that at your hands by report, or at their owne mouthes by writing?

Phi.

If their writings were not darke or might not bee wrested, the Scrip∣tures were the best witnesses of their doctrine:* 2.665 but now their successours must rather be trusted than euery man suffered to take what fayth he list out of their writings.

Theo.

Rather so than worse, doth not answere my question, but must we trust their successours in matters of faith against or besides their writings?

Phi.

Against their writings we must not, besides their writings we must. For many things are beleeued which are not expressed in the scriptures.

The.

With you, but not with the Church of God.

Phi.

The church we say beleeueth ma∣ny things which shee receiued by tradition and not by writing.

Theo.

Your Church I know doth, but the Church of Christ I say neuer did, not doth.

Phi.

Had the Church of Christ no traditions that were not written?

Theo.

Rites and ceremonies she had, but no points of fayth that were not written.

Phi.

This is the ground of all your errors: vppon this pretence you reiect the vnwritten verities of the church.

Theo.

If this bee an error S. Paul himselfe was the first author of it,* 2.666 and all the fathers of Christes Church with one consent auouch the same.

Phi.

Ne∣uer tell vs that tale.

Theo.

Yeas we will tell it and proue it to you.

Phi.

You can not.

Theo.

We can and will.

S. Paul is short but sure.* 2.667 Faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word of God: Whence wee collect, ergo faith is by the word of God and not without it nor bes••des it. You heard S. Basils opinion before,* 2.668 It is an euident slyding from the faith & a point of the greatest pride (that may be) either to depart from that which is written, or to receiue that which is not written. To that you may ioyne this conclusion of his,* 2.669 If euery thing that is not of fayth be sinne, as S. Paul affirmeth, and fayth come by hearing, and hearing by the woorde of God, ergo whatsoeuer is without (or besides) the diuine Scriptures, because it is not of fayth, it is sinne. Seekest thou for faith Emperour? sayth Hilarie to Constantius.* 2.670 Heare it not out of the late scroles, but out of Gods bookes. Heare I beseech thee that which is written of Christ, lest vnder pretēce ther∣of

of, things not written bee preached. And in an other place pressing his aduer∣sarie, Thou,* 2.671 sayth he, which denyest things written, what remaineth but that thou beleeue things vnwritten: counting that for a passing absurditie which you now would establish as the surest way to discerne the trueth.

Euen so doth Hierom against Heluidius. As wee denie not those thinges that are written,* 2.672 so wee reiect vtterly those thinges which are not written. For Our Lord & sauiour speaketh to vs in the Scriptures of his Princes: that is of his Apostles and Euangelists which were, not which are (in the church) to this end that his Apostles excepted whatsoeuer thing besides should af∣terward bee sayd, might bee cut off and not haue authoritie. Tertullian spea∣king in the person of all christians,* 2.673 We neede no farther search after the Gos∣pel. When once we beleeue wee desire nothing else to beleeue: for this wee first beleeue that there is nothing, besides (the Gospel) which wee ought to beleeue.* 2.674 And refelling y^e heretike Hermogenes, I adore, saith he, the fulnes of the scriptures. Let Hermogenes shew me where this (that he teacheth) is writ∣ten. If it be not writtē, let him feare the curse prouided for adders & dimini∣shers. Yea saith Ambrose,* 2.675 We iustly cōdemn al new things which Christ did not teach, because to the faithful Christ is the way. So then if Christ did not teach that which we teach, euē we our selues do iudge it to be detestable.

* 2.676The rest are of the same mind. The disposition of our saluation, sayth Iri∣neus, we knew by none other, than by those, by whom the Gospel came vn∣to vs: the which at first they preached by mouth, but afterward by Gods ap∣pointmēt they did deliuer it to vs in writing, that it should be the foundatiō and pillour of our faith.* 2.677 It is necessary for vs, saith Cyril, to folow the diuine Scriptures, & in nothing to go from their prescription. The mountaines of Is∣rael, (whereon God promised to feede his flocke) are, saith Augustine, the wri∣ters of the diuine Scriptures. Feeding there you feede safely: whatsoeuer you learne thence, count it sauorie, whatsoeuer is besides thē refuse it. Therefore whether it be touching Christ or his Church, or any matters els which con∣cerneth our faith & life, I say not if we, but as followeth (in Paul) if an angel from heauen teach any thing besides that which you haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospel, hold him accursed. Isidorus, as your owne Lawe produceth him,* 2.678 saith, A Prelate, if he teach or bid any thing be∣sides that which is euidently commaunded in the holy scriptures, let him be taken for a false witnes to God & a cōmitter of sacrilege. Neither Prelate, Pope, Councel nor Angel, may be receiued or trusted in matters of fayth, I say, not against the Scriptures, but not without or besides the scriptures. If there∣fore you seeke to leade Princes vnto trueth you must guyde them thereto by the word of trueth, otherwise you doe but deceiue them, you doe not direct them.

King Dauid will teach you, by what meanes himself was, and all other god∣ly Princes ought to be directed. Thy word is a lanterne to my feete & a light vnto my paths. I haue sworne and wil performe it, that I wil keepe thy righ∣teous iudgements. And God by Moses appointing his law to be the directiō of

Princes, cōmaundeth a copie thereof to be deliuered vnto the king sitting on his throne,* 2.679 that he should reade therein all the daies of his life and learne to feare the Lord his God & to keepe al the words of that lawe. This charge which God giueth bindeth princes as well as others.* 2.680 Whatsoeuer I commaund, that shal you do; thou shalt put nothing thereto, nor take ought there from. And Esay speaketh not of priuate persons only but of common-wealths also, when he saith,* 2.681 Shoulde not a people consult their God? And shewing immediatly which way they might consult and aske counsell of God, from the liuing, sayth he, to the dead? to the law (rather) and the testimonie: & if they speak not ac∣cording to this word (it is) because there is no light in them.* 2.682 They haue Mo∣ses and the Prophets, let them heare them, is the surest way to saue Prince & people frō the place of torment, & consequently the best direction for thē both.

Phi.

The word of God is, we doubt not, the best direction for Princes & pri∣uate men,* 2.683 if it be rightly vnderstood, but Al heresies patch thence the pillowes which they lay vnder the elbowes of all flesh, as S. Hierom sayth, and They talke of scriptures & perswade by Scriptures as Tertullian noteth: And there∣fore the Scriptures being but dumble recordes that may be diuersly construed and easily wrested, there must needes bee some iudge on earth that may bee personally, pronounce which is the true meaning and right sense of the Scrip∣tures before Princes may trust that direction. Otherwise men may brech what blasphemies they will and pretend Scripture when they haue done as the Ar∣rians, Sabellians, Macedonians and al other heretikes did and do.

Theo.

That heretikes couet a shew of scriptures is a case so cleare that it needeth no words.* 2.684 For howe coulde they treate of matters of faith, except it were out of the bookes of faith, or who would trust them in diuine causes without some colour of diuine Scriptures? But what meanes the Lord hath left his sheepe to distin∣guish true shepheards from wolues dissembling their habite, and theeues pre∣tending his name, this is the question that now we bee in.

Phi.

It is. And there must, wee say, bee some certaine Tribunall on earth, where truth may be found at all times and of all men that bee willing to seeke for it; otherwise there should be no stay for religion nor end of contention, euery man pretending his faith to be trueth, and no man hauing authoritie to decide which is trueth; which were most absurd.

Theo.

A Tribunal in earth to decide which is trueth? Whose Tribunal shall that be?

Phi.

The Churches.

Theo.

We be now as neere as we were before. If the truth be douted of, the church must needes be much more doubted of, because the church is the number of men professing the truth. And howe can the professours of trueth be seuered from others so long as the trueth by which they should bee knowen, is in question? You doe but wast your breath, if you goe not more di∣rectly to worke.

Phi.

You would fayne call the Church in question but that you can not.

Theo.

Away with these follies. Where fayth faileth, the church fayleth; and hee that affirmeth your doctrine to bee false, denyeth your assem∣blies and multitudes to bee the Church. The supposing your selues to bee the

Church when your fayth shoulde bee tried, is a fonde and vaine delay. Shall that be trueth which you professe, though Christ say nay?

Phi.

We say not so.

Theo.

Then suffer those to bee his sheepe, that heare his voyce, and clayme not his fold, vntill you be his sheepe.

Phi.

We do not.

Theo.

* 2.685Wee must be first resolued which is his voyce before we can agree who are his sheepe.

Phi.

I know that: and yet which is the sheepheards voyce the sheepe must iudge, and not the wolues.

The.

In deed our sauiour saith, * 2.686 The sheepe follow (the shepheard) for they know his voyce. A stranger they will not follow but flee from him, for they knew not the voyce of strangers: & ap∣plying this to himself, My sheep, saith he, heare my voyce and follow me. The reason went before, for they know the voyce of their shepheard. So that by the position of our Sauiour his sheepe must be able to discerne his voyce from a strangers.

Phi.

What else?

Theo.

His voyce is his woord, his sheepe are the faithfull, his folde is his church. If the Lorde himselfe referre his sheepe to their exact knowledge of his voyce, for their perfect direction, why woulde you force the flocke of Christ to the court of Rome, there to learne at your handes and vppon your only credite the voyce of their shepheard?

Phi.

We would haue them followe the direction of Christes church in dis∣cerning the sound of Christes voyce.

Theo.

And the church of Christ neuer directed any man by prescribing certaine places or persons where trueth could not fayle but only by the generall and constant profession of the same faith from the Apostles downe-ward in all ages and countries.

Phi.

The church com∣mendeth succession, councels, and Apostolicall Seates, as good helpes to hit the right sense of the Scriptures.

Theo.

But neuer as infallible notes to discerne the trueth.

Phi.

* 2.687The Bishops of the vniuersall Church haue (as S. Ireneus sayth) receiued with their Episcopal succession the grace and gift of vnderstanding the trueth.

Theo.

You do that auncient father wrong in the place which you bring. Ireneus limiteth succession after the same maner that we do, noting successiō to be nothing worth vnlesse sound doctrine and holy conuersation be thereunto ioyned. His woordes be: Wee must therfore obey those Priests which are in the Church, I meane those which haue their succession from the Apostles, which together with their succession in office, haue receiued charisma veritatis certum, the sure (doctrine or) gift of trueth. The rest we must suspect either as heretikes or as authors of schismes and pleasers of themselues, or else as hypocrites vayne glorious and couetous.* 2.688 From all such we must abstaine and cleaue to them as I said which keepe the doctrine of the Apostles & with the order of their priestly calling yeeld wholesome doctrine & conuersation without offence. And shewing what hee meaneth by charisma,* 2.689 he sayth, Vbi igitur charismata Do∣mini posita sunt, ibi dicere oportet veritatem: Where (these) blessings and gifts of God are, there must we learne the trueth, with whome is that succession of the Church which is from the Apostles, and also sounde and irreproueable Doctrine. So that orderly succession, sound doctrine, and conuersation without

blame, are the giftes and graces of God which he meaneth, and the one hee will not haue to bee regarded or trusted without the other.

Phi.

Make you no more accompt of succession?

Theo.

We cōmend succession to exclude ambition and dissention in the Church of Christ, and in that respect we detest such as inuade the Pastorall function without lawfull vocation and election, but that succession in place should be taken for a warrant of true Doc∣trine is an error of yours and so palpable that euery Child can refell it. For who knoweth not that an infinite number of bishops & those orderly succeeding, if you looke to their dignitie and not to their doctrine, haue beene heretiks? And that S. Paul thus forewarned the Bishops of Ephesus,* 2.690 Out of your selues shall rise men speaking peruerse things to draw disciples after them. And the Lord when he saith,* 2.691 Beware of false prophets, noteth, there shall bee prophets by their calling, which shal be foūd false in their teaching; as S. Peter also wit∣nesseth,* 2.692 There were false prophets among the people (of the Iewes) euen as there shall be false teachers amongst you, distinguished from Godly teachers not by office but by Doctrine.* 2.693 S. Paul graunteth many to be the ministers of Christ in outward profession and shew which in workes and deeds be the mi∣nisters of Sathan.* 2.694 Such false Apostles, saith hee, are deceitful workers and transforme them selues into the Apostles of Christ. The Prince of darke∣nesse that can conuaie his agents to be Teachers, Prophets and Apostles, in the Church of Christ, can place them in Bishoprikes at his pleasure, and there∣fore the chaire is no sure defence against error.

Phi.

Wee know some Bishops haue beene heretikes, but not all.

Theo.

Neither do we say that all were: God forbid. But by this that some were; we proue succession to bee no sure direction vnto trueth.* 2.695 If Berillus, Paulus, Sa∣mosatenus, Photinus, Nestorius, Dioscorus, Petrus, Apameus, Sergius, Cyrus, Theodorus, Macarius, and infinit others canonically succeeding in Seates and Churches of no small account fell afterward into pestilent heresies; that which was often & easie then, is contingent & possible still, & succession which saued not them from erring, can not defend others from the like danger.

Phi.

Succession alone is not sufficient to keepe men in the right faith.

Theo.

If you ioyne trueth and holines with it as Ireneus doth, no doubt they bee markes of faithfull and Godly Pastours, but succession of it selfe, doth neither priuilege the Teachers from error, nor conduct their hearers vnto trueth, because there haue beene thousands in the Church whose opinions you may not alow, though you cannot disproue their elections.

Phi.

Admit that,* 2.696 and how then?

Theo.

If Bishops singled may erre; why not Bishops assembled, which you call Councels? What assurance hath their meeting to keepe them from erring?

Phi.

The promise of our Lord where there be two or three gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Theo.

Doth our Sauiour speake only of Bishops and Councels, or els of all faythful persons & resorts gathered to prayer, preaching or any other good intent?

Phi.

The wordes be general and therefore belong as wel to councels as other con∣uents.

Theo.

Indeed the words be generall and therefore belong no more to Councels than to any other Christian Conuents. And did they specially pertain to Councels, as they do not, a Councell of two or three by the purport of the ve∣ry wordes hath as much assurance of trueth as a Councel of three hundered.* 2.697 It is not the number but the name in which they be gathered, that guydeth and directeth them vnto trueth.

Phi.

If our Lord haue promised to assist three ga∣thered in his name, howe much more will hee assist three hundered?

Theo.

And yet three may see the trueth, when three hundred may misse it. Which I speake not to deface religious and Godly Councels, but to stay the mul∣titude from presuming their fansies to bee true religion when they bee nothing neere.

Phi.

* 2.698May Councels erre?

Theo.

Why not?

Phi.

What Councels?

Theo.

Yea Councels. Rebaptising of heretikes was defended by Cyprian and a Councel of Bishops with him,* 2.699 and as Eusebius reporteth out of Dionysius de∣creed In maximis Episcoporum Synodis, in very great Councels of Bishops. The Arrians in twentie sixe yeres gathered and framed sundrie Councels for their purpose at Tyrus, Ierusalem, Philippi, Sirmium, Ariminum, Seleucia, Cōstan∣tinople, and two at Antioch. In the Councel of Millan * 2.700 Aboue three hunde∣red of the west Bishoppes consented that Athanasius should be thrust from his Bishoprike, and only fiue sayd nay. To the wicked edict of Basiliscus against the Councel of Chalcedon subscribed * 2.701 fiue hundred Bishops. Gregorie Nazi∣anzene was so out of loue with the Councels of his time,* 2.702 that when he was sent for, he praied Proropius to haue excused to the Emperour for sicknes, and addeth, I, to write you the trueth, am determined to forbeare all Councels of Bishops, because I haue not seene any good euent of any Councel, but ra∣ther an encrease than a redresse of (our) euils. So that a number of badde Bi∣shops may doe much hurt euen in Councels, and the better part is not alwaies sure to be the greater.

Phi.

* 2.703Particular Councels haue erred, but neuer generall.

Theo.

If parti∣cular councels may erre, why may not general? what differēce find you between Prouinciall and general Councels but only the number of Persons that bee called, and places whence they bee called? Now what warrant I pray you haue three hundered Bishops more than two hundered, or the Bishops of some coun∣tries more than the Bishops of other Countries, that they cannot erre? If trueth goe by tale, particular Councels haue often matched and passed many generall for number of Bishops. The second and sixt generall Councels, had present at either but one hundered fiftie Bishops, the third had but one hundered, as Beda writeth, and as it appeareth by their * 2.704 subscriptions, not aboue one hundered fiftie, whereas the Councel of Sardica had * 2.705 three hundred, and so had the councel of Millan, and the fourth & sixt Councels of Carthage had aboue two hundered Bishops in either of them.* 2.706 If it goe by countries, then shew vs which Coun∣tries haue this priuiledge, that their Bishops can not erre, and which haue it not: For as yet we see no cause why trueth should be tied to some numbers

or nations and not to others; and before we may grant them that progatiue, we must see great cause and good proofe.

Phi.

Wee doe not hold that generall Councels are defended from error by reason of any number or nations there gathered, but it is wee say more likelie, that many men assembled out of diuers nations shoulde light on trueth, than a fewe out of one.

Theo.

You come with likelyhoodes when wee seeke for certaineties. Can you shew forth any graunt from God that generall Councels shall not erre?

Phi.

If generall Councels might erre,* 2.707 the church might erre, which is not possible.

Theo.

As though none were of or in the Church but onely Bishope? or all the Bishops of Christendome without exception were euer present at any Councel? or the greater part of those that are present might not strike y^e stroake without the rest? When 300. are assembled in Councel, and 149. take one part, and 151. the other, is this your profound learning that the odde voyces which make vp the greater part can neuer erre? or doth the whole Church erre, when falsehood hath for her selfe tenne or twelue Bishops more than trueth hath?

Phi.

If a Councel once geue iudgement in matters of fayth, who can re∣uerse it?

Theo.

The rest present or absent may lawfully contradict the Councel if it wade besides trueth or against the faith.* 2.708 When the fathers in the great Councel of Nice were about to decree that Bishops, Priestes and Deacons should not vse their wiues, Paphnutius alone rose vp in the midst of their Councel and freely contradicted it. The same Paphnutius, when se∣crete enemies laboured in the Councel of Tyrus wrongfully to depose Atha∣nasius caught Maximus the Bishop of Ierusalem by the hand, and willed him to rise and forsake that conuenticle of euill men.* 2.709 In the Councel of Millan when 300. had consented to the deposition of Athanasius, Dionysius, Euse∣bius, Paulinus, Lucifer and Rhodamus (but fiue against fifteene skore) openly and plainly withstood it.* 2.710 The second Councell of Ephesus was reiec∣ted by many godly Bishoppes that were not present as iniurious and wicked, and Leo himselfe writeth of the famous and generall councell of Chalcedon,* 2.711 Tanquam refutari nequeat quod illicite voluerit multitudo; as though that might not bee refused, which a multitude hath vnlawfully decreed. And making there no more account of their number, though there were aboue sixe hundred fathers in that Councel,* 2.712 he saith, Nulla sibimet de multiplicatione congregationis Concilia blandiantur. Let no councels flatter themselues with the great num∣ber of persons assembled.

Phi.

You are the first that euer were of this opinion that generall Coun∣cels might erre.

Theo.

Your owne fellowes haue beene of that opinion be∣fore vs. Panormitane the best of your canonists,* 2.713 and Proctour for Pope Euge∣nius against the Councell of Basil, affirmeth plainely, Concilium potest errare, sicut alias errauit super matrimonium contrahendum inter raptorem & rap∣tam, & dictum Hieronymi melius sentientis postea fuit praelatum statuto Concilij.

A Councell may erre, as otherwise a Councel hath erred about marriage to bee contracted betweene the rauisher and the rauished, and the saying of Hierom as being of the sounder opinion was after preferred before the sta∣tute of the Councell. And your argument, that the church should fayle in fayth if councels should erre;* 2.714 he reiecteth as friuolous. Nec obstat si dicatur quod Concili∣um non potest errare quia Christus orauit pro ecclesia sua vt non deficeret. It hinde∣reth vs litle, if it be sayde that a Councell can not erre, because Christ prayed for his Church that it shoulde not fayle. For though a generall Councell re∣present the whole vniuersall Church,* 2.715 yet to speake trueth the vniuersall Church is not there precisely, but by representation; because the vniuersall Church consisteth of all the faithfull. And this is the Church which can not erre. Wherby it is not vnpossible but the true faith of Christ may continue in onely one person. Therefore, (the Church) is not sayd to faile nor to erre, if the true faith remaine in any one. If you woulde bee farther taught that a generall councell is neither the vniuersall church, nor representeth the vniuer∣sal church, and that it hath erred and may erre, we can send you to a marchant of the same stampe that your selues are of, where you shall see as much as I say, de∣bated and commended with no small brauerie.

* 2.716Certum est Concilia non esse vniuersalem Ecclesiam. In nullo vniuersalium Conci∣liorum omnium hoc sibi praesumpsisse Patres inuenient vt dicerent Catholicam se re∣praesentare ecclesiam praeterquam in hijs quae nunc impugnamus, Constantiensi & Ba∣siliensi nouissimis. It is certaine that Councels are not the vniuersall Church. In none of all the general Councels shal you find the fathers to haue arroga∣ted thus much to themselues as to say they represented the catholike church besides these two last councels of Constance and Basil which wee nowe im∣pugne. And that general councels may erre no man more resolute than Pighius. Neque enim haec sola quae nunc impugnamus, Concilia, turpiter grauiterque errasse certum est, sed & alia plurima: It is certaine that not onely these Councels (of Constance and Basill) which we now disproue haue shamefully and absurdly erred but also many others.* 2.717 And againe, In fidei definitionibus errasse, etiam vni∣uersalia etiam sanctorum Patrum Concilia comperimus. Testimonio sunt de vni∣uersalibus Concilijs, inprimus Ariminense, vniuersale haud dubie: &c. Insuper Ephe∣sanum secundum & ipsum vniuersale, &c. testimonio inquam haec sunt errare posse e∣tiam vniuersalia Concilia, etiam legitimè congregata. We find that generall coun∣cels euen of holy fathers haue erred in decrees of fayth. For example of ge∣nerall Councels, the Councell of Ariminum, vniuersall no doubt, and also the second councel of Ephesus, and that likewise vniuersall, these I say are witnesses that euen generall Councels and those lawfully gathered may erre.

* 2.718If Panormitane and Pighius might happily bee ouerseen in empayring the credite of councels: S. Augustine was not when he sayde, Who can be igno∣rant that Prouinciall and National Councels yeelde without any stay to the authoritie of generall Councels gathered out of the whole Christian world,

and that general Councels themselues are often amended the former by the later, with Catholike peace and Christian charitie.

Phi.

He saith, Plenary councels are amended but not from errors.

Theo.

What needeth amending where no fault is? The condition which S. Augustine repeateth in the first,* 2.719 indureth to the last Si quid forte a veritate deuiatum est, If in ought they swarue from trueth. And except that be vnderstood, he answereth not the thing which was obiected by the Donatists. They opposed Cyprians letters, Cyprians iudgement, Cyprians Councel in a matter of Doctrine not of Discipline. S. Augustine replieth, Bishops might be deceiued and so might Councels. In what now but in matters of Doctrine?

Phi.

Can you name vs any general coūcel that erred in matters of doctrine?

Theo.

Your owne fellow nameth the Councell of Ariminum and of Ephesus the second,* 2.720 besides the Councels of Constance and Basill.

Phi.

I doubt not whether that of Ephesus were a wicked Councell, but whether it were general or no.

Theo.

The Patriarks of Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Hierusalem, & Constantinople were called vnto it and present at it, with the Bishops of di∣uerse and sundrie Prouinces, as their subscriptions declare, which are extant in the Councel of Chalcedon: The* 2.721 Bishop of Rome by his Legates as his wont was in other Councels, the * 2.722 rest in person, and therefore out of question it was no Prouinciall Councel. Againe the Emperour that called the Councell in his epistle to the same saith, We thinking it not safe that this question of faith should be handled without your sacred Synod and the Bishops of the holy Churches of all places, thought it needful that your sanctities should assem∣ble.

Phi.

The Bishops that were present at Ephesus complained after in the Councel of Chalcedon that they were threatned and forced.* 2.723

Theo.

The greater y^e disorder that was cōmitted in the Councel, the stronger is our argu∣ment, that Councels may bee miscaried; if Bishoppes may be forced, they may likewise bee circumuented, as they were in the Councell of Ariminum, or deceiued in opinion as they were in the Councels of Carthage, Constance and Basil, by the confession of your deerest friends. If all these wayes they may be peruerted when they are assembled, ergo they may make both an erroni∣ous and iniurious conclusion.

And for this cause S. Augustine teacheth that ecclesiasticall Iudges may be deceiued,* 2.724 in that they be but men, and calleth their councels Humane iudge∣ments which may be circumuented and beguiled. His wordes be, Non igitur debet ecclesia se Christo praeponere: cum ille semper veraciter iudicet, ecclesiastici autē iudices sicut homines plerumque falluntur. The Church may not prefere herselfe before Christ, forsomuch as hee alwaies iudgeth rightly, and ecclesiasticall iudges as being but men are often deceiued. And rehearsing two Episcopall iudgements that passed against the Donatists in the Councels at Rome and Arle, hee addeth,* 2.725 Sed haec humana iudicia deputentur, & circumuenire, ac falli, vel etiam corrumpi potuisse dicantur. But let these bee counted the iudge∣ments of men, and let it bee said they might either deceiue or be deceiued;

and perhaps corrupted.

* 2.726The like hee sayth of the Councell of Ariminum. This is that which the Catholike fathers in the Councell of Nice had established against the Arrian heretikes by authoritie of the trueth, and which afterward in the Councel of Ariminum, hereticall impietie vnder an hereticall Emperour assaied to ouerthrowe, multis paucorum fraude deceptis, the multitude (there) being de∣ceiued by the subtiltie of a fewe.* 2.727 And therefore hee concludeth, Sed nunc ne•• ego Nicenum nec tu debes Ariminense tanquam praeiudicaturus proferre Concili∣um: nec ego huius authoritate, nec tu illius detineris. But nowe (since there be contrarie Councels) neither ought I to produce the Councell of Nice, nor you the Councel of Ariminum for a preiudice (to either part:) for nei∣ther am I bound to the authoritie of this (later Councell of Ariminum) nor you to the authoritie of that (former Nicene Councell:) Confessing not on∣ly that councels might erre, but that his aduersarie was not tied to the autho∣ritie of the great Nicene councell, comparable to the which, no Councell euer was or shall bee in the Church of Christ.

Phi.

There was great difference betweene the Councell of Ariminum and the Councell of Nice.

Theo.

In the syncere profession of the true fayth there was difference betwixt them, but in the manner of calling those Councels and number of the persons present Saint Augustine founde no great aduantage for his side. The Arrians had a councell as great and as general for that which they refused as the Catholiques had for that which they professed, and therefore this learned father sawe no remedie but hee must yeelde vppe the Nicene Councell as no sufficient conuiction of their he∣resie.

Phi.

* 2.728The councell of Ariminum was not generall.

Theo.

The coun∣cell was farre greater, as it should seeme, than the councell of Nice, though the Storie of the church doe not lay downe the certaine number of the Bi∣shoppes that mette.

Phi.

What reason leadeth you to thinke it was grea∣ter?

Theo.

It is euident by the Storie that the Emperour assembled all the Bishoppes both of the East and of the West church, of purpose if it were possible, to bring them to some concord: and the Bishoppes of either church, no doubt, farre exceeded the number of three hundred.

Phi.

They were not all at Ariminum.

Theo.

The number was so great and the iourney so long that the Emperour made them sit in two seuerall places, the East Bishoppes at Nicomedia, the West at Ariminum: but that all the Bishoppes of both Churches were gathered in these two places Socrates doeth wit∣nesse.

* 2.729(Imperator) vniuersale Concilium congregare voluit vt cunctos Orientis Epis∣copos in Occidentem accersitos, concordes, si posset, redderet. The Emperour intended to gather an vniuersall Councell, that all the Bishoppes of the East comming into the West parts, he might get thē to agree, if it might be. And when the length of the iourney appeared ouer tedious, he cōmanded

the councel to be diuided, & willed the west to assemble at Ariminum, the East to resort at Nicomedia. What a companie there were of the west bishops, their own words to Constantius will declare. Ariminū ex cunctis Occidentis Ciuitati∣bus omnes Episcopi conuenimus.* 2.730 We assembled at Ariminum euen all the Bi∣shops out of all the west Cities. S. Hierom writing of this very Councell saith, Illo tempore nihil tam pium, nihil tam conueniens seruo Dei videbatur quam vnitatem sequi, & a totius mundi communione non scindi.* 2.731 At that time nothing seemed so religious, nothing so conuenient for the seruant of God as to follow vnitie and not to cut himselfe from the Communion of the whole world. The communion of the whole world was in the Councell of Arimi∣num:* 2.732 no Councell therefore could be more generall than that was. And this no doubt Saint Augustine sawe when hee gaue ouer the Councell of Nice, as no greater preiudice to his aduersaries than the Councel of Ariminum was to himselfe and the fayth which he defended.

Phi.

The Councell of Ariminum condemned the error of Arius,* 2.733 as their Epistle to Constantius declareth.

Theo.

The Bishoppes assembled at A∣riminum were religious and Catholike, but not sounding the drift of some craftie heretikes amongest them, and ledde with a coulour of concord and peace which the Emperour vrged, they relented from the Nicene creede vppon pretence made that the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 was new and offensiue, and consented the worde should bee abolished,* 2.734 and subscribed to an other Creede that professed the sonne of GOD to bee like to his father, according to the Scriptures.

Phi.

Wherein then did that Councell erre?

Theo.

Not in decreeing any falsehood, but in exacting lesse to bee belee∣ued than the Christian faith required, and reiecting that worde, which the Nicene Councell had established for the righter expressing of the christi∣an faith. In this Councell saith Saint Hierom,* 2.735 Nomine vnitatis & fi∣dei infidelitas scripta est, In the name of vnitie and faith infidelity was (decreed and) written: and vppon the conclusion of the Councell,* 2.736 Ingemu∣it totus orbis, & Arrianum se esse miratus est, The whole worlde groned and wondered to see it selfe in Arrianisme.

Phi.

The fathers made more accompt of Councels than you doe.

Theo.

No father euer saide that Councels could not erre.

Phi.

S. Augustine saith,* 2.737 their authoritie is most wholesome in the Church.

Theo.

But hee neuer said they were free from all error. That is the perfection and reuerence which S. Augustine reserueth to the Scriptures only, to be without all suspition of error.* 2.738 Solis eis Scripturarum libris qui iam Canonici appellantur didici hunc timo∣rem honoremque deferre,* 2.739 vt nullum eorum authorem scribendo aliquid errasse firmis∣sime credam. I haue learned to yeeld this feare and honor to the Canonical Scriptures only that I firmely beleeue none of the Authors of them to haue any thing erred in penning them. If this honor to be free from error, be due to the Canonical Scriptures only, then may you not impart it either to successi∣on, Councels or Sees Apostolike. It must stand for a perpetuall difference

betweene the preceptes of God and decrees of men that God is true and all men lyars.* 2.740 If (ought) sayth Austen, bee prooued by the manifest authoritie of the diuine Scriptures which in the Church are called Canonicall, it must bee beleeued without any doubting: Other witnesses or testimonies, thou mayst beleeue or not beleeue, according as thou shalt see cause to trust thē.

And distinguishing the Canon of the Scriptures from the writings and re∣solutions of all that followed; were they fathers, Councels or whatsoeuer, hee sayth,* 2.741 In that Canonicall preeminence of the sacred Scriptures if it appeare that but one Prophet, Apostle or Euangelist set downe any thing in his wri∣tings, it is not lawfull to doubt of the trueth of it. In the works of those that came after them, comprised in bookes that bee infinite, in which soeuer of them the same truth is sound, yet the authoritie is farre inferior. Therfore in thē, if happily some things be thought to dissent from truth because they be not vnderstood as they were spoken,* 2.742 tamen liberum ibi habet lector auditorue iu∣dicium, quo vel approbet quod placuerit, vel improbet quod offenderit, yet hath the reader or hearer in those writings his iudgement free to allow what hee li∣keth, and reiect what he misliketh: So that in all such except they be fortifi∣ed by euident reason, or by that Canonical authoritie, if a man mislike or wil not beleeue he is not reprooued. Which libertie S. Augustine elsewhere cha∣lengeth vnto himselfe In quorumlibet hominum scriptis, in the writings of al mē whatsoeuer, and addeth this reason, Quia solis Canonicis debeo sine vlla recu∣satione consensum, because I owe consent without any stay to the Canonical Scriptures only.

* 2.743The authoritie to bee beleeued without any refusing is proper onely to the Scriptures, because the certainetie, not to erre, is annexed only to them and to no writings else. The rest must bee read, as S. Augustine teacheth, non cum credendi necessitate, sed cum iudicandi libertate, not with a necessitie to beleeue them, but a libertie to iudge of them, and must bee distinguished from the authoritie of the Canon, for that * 2.744 the authoritie of the sacred Scriptures can neither deceiue nor be deceiued, and by* 2.745 those bookes, de ceteris literis fideliū vel infidelium libere iudicemus, we may freely iudge of (all) other writings both of Christians and Infidels.* 2.746 If wee must iudge, then they may erre. Where no danger of error is, there is no freedom of iudgement left vs to receiue what we see cause, and reiect what we thinke good. The Scriptures we may not iudge of, because they can not erre: All other writings wee must examine before wee beleeue, Ergo they be not free from erring.

* 2.747This made S. Augustine disputing with the Donatists to reiect the Coun∣cels that were against him and resigne the Councels that were with him as he did before refuting the Arrians and to tie both himselfe and his aduersaries to the Scriptures. Let (the Donatists) if they can, sayth hee, shewe their Church, not in rumors and speaches of the men of Africa, not in the coūcels of their Bishops, not in the discourses of any writers whosoeuer, not in signes and miracles that may be forged; but in the prescript of the law, in

the predictions of the Prophetes in the verses of the Psalmes, in the voyces of the shepheard himselfe, in the preachings and workes of the Euangelists, that is in all the canonical authorities of the sacred Scriptures. And binding himselfe to the same condition, he saith,* 2.748 Quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credi oportere quòd in ecclesia Christi sumus &c. Because we our selues do not say wee must therfore be beleeued, for that we are in the Church of Christ, or else for that Optatus, Ambrose and infinite other Bishops of our communion haue cōmended the church, which we hold, or because our church hath bin pub∣lished in the Councels of our Collegues.* 2.749 S. Hilarie was nothing afrayd to be condemned in many Councels. Now let him gather what Councels hee will against me, sayth he, and openly proscribe me for an heretike, as he hath of∣ten done.

Phi.

By whom then shal princes be directed if neither by bishops nor coun∣cels?* 2.750

Theo.

I do not say that princes should not be directed by them, but onely that princes & others are not bound vnto them with like subiection, as they bee to the word of God. For that can not erre, & may command, because God is the author of it. Councels may erre, & can not cōmand, because they consist of men, which be not alwaies assured of trueth, and owe subiection to the princes sword.

Phi.

Were this exception good against councels,* 2.751 against Christes Uicar it is not good. He may command, as Christ might if he were present, and hath a pro∣mise that his fayth shall not fayle.

Theo.

In deede Christ hath a Uicar on earth that may commaund, and can direct vnto trueth, but I thinke you meane not him.

Phi.

I meane the Uicar generall which Christ left behinde him to guyde the church after his ascending.

Theo.

And so doe I, and yet I doubt wee bee of two mynds.

Phi.

What Uicar hath Christ left but Peter and his successors in the Romane See, which can not erre, and may commaund as well Princes as others?

Theo.

His holy Spirite, which hath better right to commaund and skill to direct than either Peter or Peters successours.

Phi.

Call you the holy Ghost his Uicar?

Theo.

Why shoulde I not? Tertullian did so before mee. The rule of faith is, sayth hee,* 2.752 that Christ was taken vp into heauen, and sate down at the right hand of his father and sent, Vicarian vim spi∣ritus sancti qui credentes agat, the power of the holy Ghost to bee his Vicar and to leade the faithfull. And in an other place hee giueth him the same tytle. Vicarius Domini Spiritus sanctus, the holy Ghost the Lordes Vicar: But what auncient father euer called the Bishoppe of Rome Christes Uicar?* 2.753

Phi.

If Peter were, no doubt he is.

Theo.

Wee aske not now for ifs, shewe one that euer called him so.

Phi.

What if that very word be not found in them?

Theo.

Then forbeare it till you find it, and goe on with some other name.

Phi.

Call him as you list, but this wee bee sure that hee can not erre, and may commaunde both Prince and people.* 2.754

Theo.

Hee neuer biteth that barketh much, you make your selfe sure of these thinges, which when wee come to triall will be most vnsure. How proue you either of these points which you affirme?

Phi.

The Gospel prooueth the first,* 2.755 I prayed for thee that thy fayth fayle not: and thou once conuerted, confirme thy brethren, which is to say, that Pe∣ter is that man, whom hee woulde make Superiour ouer them and the whole Church.

Theo.

Which is to say, that you belie the words of the Gospel. For who but Iesuites would make this collection, Confirme thy brethren, that is, be Supe∣riour ouer them and the whole Church?

Phi.

None may confirme but a Su∣periour.

Theo.

* 2.756Why so good Syr? May not one brother comfort and encou∣rage an other?

Phi.

Yeas, but Peter must confirme his brethren.

Theo.

And what was confirming in this place but recalling them from the feare they were in, whē they fled from their master, and leading them by his example to be more constant?

Phi.

It was his charge so to doe.

Theo.

So is it euery Christian mans, in the like case to do no lesse. Dauid after the defiling of Berseba and murdering of Vriah promiseth to do that which Peter is here appointed to do.* 2.757 Restore mee to the ioy of thy saluation, and establish mee with thy free Spi∣rit; then wil I teach thy wayes vnto the wicked, and sinners shal be couer∣ted vnto thee. Will you therefore inferre that Dauid was supreme Pastor ouer al the wicked? Are you not profound men, of a christian duetie and commō charitie prescribed to Peter in respect of them that were fallen into the same temptatiō with him, to conclude a singularitie and superioritie for him ouer his fellow disciples and ouer the whole church besides?

Phi.

* 2.758By this, We learne that it was thought fit in the prouidence of God, that he who should be the head of the church, shuld haue a special priuilege by Christs praier & promise neuer to fayle in faith, and that none other either Apostle, Bishop or Priest may chalenge any such singular or speciall prerogatiue either of her office or person other∣wise than by ioyning with Peter and by holding of him.

Theo.

By this we learne that you abuse both the prouidence of God and the promise of our Sauiour to serue your wicked fansies. For Christ did not promise that Peters iudgement shoulde neuer erre, but that in this tentation nowe at hande, his fayth shall not vtterly fayle. Ego pro te oraui ne deficeret fides tua: Hoc est ne in fine pereas. I haue prayed for thee, that thy fayth shall not fayle, that is, sayth Chryso∣stome, that thou finally perish not. And againe, Non dixit quippe, non negabis, sed vt non deficiat fides tua. Cura enim ipsius & fauore factum est ne omnino Petri fi∣des euanesceret. (Christ) did not say, thou shalt not deny me, but thy faith shall not (wholy) fayle. For by his care and fauour it came to passe that Peters faith should not vtterly bee extinguished. And so Bede,* 2.759 Our Sauiour prai∣ed for Peter, not that hee shoulde not be tempted, but that his faith should not fayle, that is, that after he was fallen by denying him, hee might rise a∣gaine by repentance to his former state. Now frame your reason, as in deede you must, and marke your illation howe absurd it is. I haue prayed for thee, that thy fayth shall not vtterly vanish, though thou shalt thrise denie mee and shamefully forsweare mee; Ergo neither Peter neither his successours can erre in any matter of Religion. I aske not what boy, but what bedlem would thus dispute?

Phi.

Peter denied not the faith but the person of Christ.

Theo.

And he that denieth the Person of Christ, denieth not a part, but the whole faith of Christ.* 2.760 It is a sorer and a more dangerous fal to deny the Lord himselfe, than to be decei∣ued in opinion of faith, euen by the very confession of Peter. For thus he pla∣ceth them in the second Epistle,* 2.761 There shalbe false teachers amongst you, which shall priuily bring in damnable sects, yea, denying the Lorde that hath bought them. Our Sauiour in his admonition to the seuen Churches of Asia,* 2.762 sheweth that hee which denyeth his name denyeth his fayth. Thou holdest fast my name, sayth hee, and hast not denyed my fayth. Where∣fore not to hold fast the name of Christ is to deny the fayth of Christ. And how can you doubt of this, since the missing of any point of fayth, is but heresie, and the denying of Christes name which Peter fell into, is Apostasie, farre worse than the former? See then howe lewdly you peruert the words of our Saui∣our. Where Peter is forewarned of his fall, you make the woordes a war∣rant that hee shall not fall. And where the Lorde promised him repentance, you turne the text as if Peter weree free from all such offences.

Phi.

Hee offended, but not in fayth.

Theo.

Could he deny Christ and not denie his faith and hope in Christ? Or can there bee greater infidelitie than to deny the sonne of God? And yet Peter not onely denyed him thrise, but with an othe and a curse ratified his deniall.

Phi.

Peter denied that hee knewe him.

Theo.

And hee that knoweth not Christ, what fayth or hope hath he in Christ?* 2.763 S. Ambrose giuing the cause why Peter did not speake but weepe after his fall, sayth,* 2.764 Petrus iam non vtitur sermo∣ne quo fefellerat, quo peccauerat, quo fidem amiserat. Peter nowe doeth not vse speach by the which hee had lyed, by the which he had sinned, by the which hee had lost his fayth. And againe,* 2.765 Fidelior factus est post quam fidem se perdidisse defleuit. Peter became more faythfull, after hee bewayled the losse of his fayth.

Phi.

The danger (sayth S. Leo) was common to all the Apostles, but our Lorde tooke special care of Peter,* 2.766 that the state of al the rest might bee the more sure, if the head were inuincible.

Theo.

Leo may be borne with in shewing himselfe some∣what fauourable to Peter, the founder of his Church; but what reason wee shoulde beare with you when you corrupt and falsifie that which Leo sayth? His woordes are,* 2.767 Pro fide Petri propriè supplicatur tanquam aliorum status cer∣tior sit futurus, simens Principis victa non fuerit. Prayer is made particularly for Peters fayth, as though the state of others woulde bee the surer, if the minde of the chiefe were not conquered. For aliorum, you say (all the rest;) for mens Principis, you say (the head;) for victa non fuerit, you say (were inuincible;) that is at no time after able to bee conquered. These bee your forgeries, they bee not Leoes woordes. Hee speaketh somewhat partially for Peter, but nothing hurtfull vnto vs. That Peter was the chiefe of the Apostles in order, in age, in zeale, in courage, and such like vertues and dignities, and that the rest are weakened when the chiefe is conquered,

which is all that Leo sayth, we can admit: But yet S. Chrysostome,* 2.768 by your leaue, giueth a truer cause way Christ did mention Peter and not the rest. If (Satan) desired (to resist) them all, why did not (Christ) pray for all? It is eui∣dent, as I sayd before, that to touch him the more deepely and to shewe his fall to bee farre more grieuous than any of the rest, Christ turneth his speech to him in particular. And so hee sayde before, I prayed for thee (par∣ticularly) that thy fayth should not fayle. This (Christ) spake to touch (Pe∣ter) the more vehemently, signifying that his fall woulde bee much fou∣ler than the fall of his fellowes, and therefore that hee needed the more helpe.

* 2.769S. Augustine maketh it a plaine case that in praying for Peter hee prayed for all. Quid ambigitur? Pro Petro rogabat, & pro Iacobo & Iohanne non roga∣bat, vt ceteros taceam? Manifestum est in Petro omnes contineri, quia & in alio loco dicit, Ego pro hijs rogo quos mihi dedisti Pater. Why doubt wee of it? Did hee pray for Peter, and did hee not pray for Iames and Iohn, to say nothing of the rest? It is manifest that in Peter all are contained, because in an o∣ther place hee sayth: I pray for them whom thou hast giuen mee, O father. The wordes Pro Iacobo & Iohanne non rogabat, must bee interrogatiue, vnlesse you will haue S. Augustine to contradict that which he goeth about to proue; though the Print or the Scribe haue made there two pointes, yet your owne felowes the Louanists in their late Plantine edition haue mended the points, & made thē interrogatiue for very shame. But how so euer you set the points, cer∣taine it is the Lorde prayed ioyntly for them all, and that at this very supper as the 17. of S. Iohn witnesseth, & in as ample manner for all as for one.* 2.770 I pray for them, I pray not for the world. Holy father preserue them in thy name whō thou hast giuen me; keepe them from euill & sanctifie them in thy trueth.

It is a greater grace to bee kept from euill and to bee sanctified in the trueth, which Christ requested for all, than to haue their fayth not fayle and to bee conuerted, which hee promised vnto Peter. You doe therefore very wic∣kedly to teach the people that None other Apostle might chalenge any such speciall prerogatiue either of his office or Person,* 2.771 as to bee stedfast in trueth without error. The prayer was generall for them all by the iudgement of S. Augustine, and were it not, the prayer which our Sauiour made for them all, and the promise which hee made vnto them all euen the same night that hee spake this, are more effectual than this. The prayer you haue heard: the promise is,* 2.772 If I depart not, the comforter shall not come vnto you: but if I depart, I will send him vn∣to you. And when that Spirit of trueth commeth hee shall leade you into all trueth. To bee led into all trueth is a better assurance against error, than to fall first and after to bee conuerted, which is all that is promised vnto Peter in this place.

Phi.

* 2.773Saint Augustine also: Christ praying for Peter, prayed for the rest, be∣cause in the Pastor and Prelate the people is corrected or commended. Saint Ambrose writeth that Peter after his tentation was made Pastor of the Church,

because it was said to him, thou being conuerted confirme thy brethren.

Theo.

You might haue spared these authorities, but that you must needes haue the Fa∣thers names in your mouthes, though they make nothing for you. The words of S. Augustine, which you cite, are not found in the olde Printes nor in their copies,* 2.774 but crept into some written bookes by the negligence and vnskilfulnesse of scribes; and yet were they S. Augustines, I see not what you gaine by them. Peter is there called Praepositus,* 2.775 that is, preferred before the rest, as also Prae∣latus doeth signifie, both which wordes in the Fathers bee commonly applied to all Bishops, & import no singular prerogatiue that Peter should claime, but the common charge which all Pastours haue. And though the words which you quote be neither many nor materiall, yet you mistake them. For you say the people is corrected or commended, where the Latine is Semper in praeposito populus aut corripitur aut laudatur, the people is alwayes reproued or praised in their (leader or) Prelate.

S. Ambrose saith no more but that,* 2.776 Petrus Ecclesiae praeponitur, post quam à Di∣abolo tentatus est, Peter receiueth charge of the church, after he was tempted of the Diuell. And by these wordes, thou being conuerted confirme thy bre∣thrē, he saith,* 2.777 The Lord doth signifie what it meaneth that he did after chose him to be sheepehearde of the Lordes flocke: to wit, that hee and all other sheepeheardes by his example, should learne to beare with their weake bre∣thren and vse that kindinesse and patience in restoring and confirming others, which their Lord and master first shewed in suffering & conuerting them. And this Sainct Ambrose did well to make the chiefest point of a christian sheepe∣heard.

Phi.

But S. Ambrose saith in the singular number, Petrus ecclesiae praeponi∣tur: & eum elegit Pastorem Dominici gregis. Peter is set ouer the Church, and Christ chose him to be Pastor of his flocke. Sure you be singular men to quote such places and make such conclusions. Peter was set ouer the Church, or made Pastour of the Lordes flocke, ergo none but Peter. Euen so you may reason:* 2.778 The Gospell of the glorie of the blessed God is committed to mee, saith Paul, ergo to none but to Paul. And againe,* 2.779 I am the teacher of the Gen∣tiles in faith and truth, ergo none but he. Or when he saith to the Philippians,* 2.780 It is giuen vnto you, not onely to beleeue in (Christ) but also to suffer for (Christ): ergo it is giuen to none but to them. If you play thus with Scrip∣tures and fathers you may make mad worke in them both.

Phi.

Peter was made Pastour of the flock.

Theo.

And so were others as you heard out of Ambrose before:* 2.781 The (Lords) flocke not only Peter receiued, but we al with him.

Phi.

He was set ouer the church.

The.

And so are al Pastors. Our Sauiour saith of teachers in generall:* 2.782 Who then is a faithfull seruant & wise, whom his master hath set ouer his household to giue them meate in season? S. Cyprian speaking of himselfe saith,* 2.783 Ob hoc ecclesiae praepositum persequitur: For this he persueth the ruler or ouerseer of the church. S. Au∣gustine saith,* 2.784 Praepositi intelligendi sunt per quos ecclesia nunc gubernatur. They

must be taken for ouerseers (of the church) by whom the church is nowe gouerned.* 2.785 And againe, Sunt quidam Ecclesiae praepositi, de quibus Paulus dicit. sua quaerentes, There are some ouerseers of the church of whom Paul saith, they seeke their owne. So that Praepositus and Pastor Ecclesiae bee not titles proper to Peter but stiles common to all Bishops, and therefore by them you can inferre nothing.

But where all this while are your proofes, that Peter could not erre, which is the frame that you would fasten on these wordes?* 2.786 Why proue you thinges superfluous, and skip that which is most in question betwixt vs? What father euer saide that these wordes of our Sauiour made Peter free from falling or er∣ring? From desperation & irrepentance, the Lords praier saued him, & recouered him when he was ready to perish: from falling or erring hee was defended no more than the rest, nay not so much. They fled & forsooke their master, he presu∣ming farther, sped worse, as the Lord fortold him, & the Gospel reporteth of him.

And were that proued, which you neither offer nor are able to proue, yet doth it not belong to the Bishop of Rome, which is it that we sticke at. For touching Peters person and office we can soone be intreated to thinke and speake the best. And though we do not say as you do, that truth was tied to his sleeue only: yet are we of opinion, that he and his fellow Disciples were guided into all truth as by whom the church was first to bee planted, and from whome the faithfull were to receiue the word of truth & the foundation of their faith. And therefore we nothing doubt but as the writings of Peter, Paul, Iames, Iohn, Iude & Mat∣thew bee canonical Scriptures, so the preaching not of Peter onely but of all the rest after they were indued with the power of the holy Ghost from aboue,* 2.787 was assured truth & void of all error: the same spirit ruling their tongues that guided their pens: But this priuilege to teach and write trueth without error was annexed to Peters person, not conueied along to his successors no more thā their writings are canonicall because his were.

Phi.

This was not the priuilege of S. Peters person but of his office, that he should not faile in faith.* 2.788

The.

If you ment that other Apostles which were of the same of∣fice w^t him, were to haue the same priuilege as well as he, you saide right: for the churches of Christ in all places where Peter neuer preached needed the same assurance of faith & the same direction vnto trueth that the churches did which were planted by Peter: But you will haue this priuilege remaine to some suc∣cessor after Peters death, and for that you shew vs no authority besides your owne, which God knoweth is very simple.

Phi.

* 2.789Al the fathers applie this priuilege of not failing in faith to the Romane church & Peters successours in the same.

Theo.

You belie all the Fathers with one breath; & but that you haue a priuilege to say what you list,* 2.790 in other men this were an arrogant & an impudent lie. What fathers, I praie you, applie this promise of not failing in faith to the Romane Church? You say al: for discharge of your credit let vs heare some.

Phi.

* 2.791S. Barnard writing to Pope Innocentius saith, To what other See was

it euer said, I haue praied for thee Peter that thy faith do not faile?

Theo.

Could you find no father for the space of 1100. yeres that euer applied these wordes to the church of Rome before Bernard? To be plaine with you masters,* 2.792 Bernard is too yōg to cary the name of antiquitie, & too single to haue the credit of al the fathers: But w^t thē that haue no mo, one must go for all. Indeed all the fathers that euer applied this priuilege to the church of Rome are poore Bernard more than a 1000. yeres after Christ, in the midst of corruption: but in this case wee require some grauer and elder father than Bernard.

Phi.

To the which (saith S. Cyprian) infidelity or false saith can not come.* 2.793

Theo.

To which what? church or successors?

Phi.

Which you wil. And where you require fathers that the church of Rome can not er, Cypriās words be very plaine. Post ista nauigare audent & ad Petri cathedram at{que} ecclesiam Principalem,* 2.794 vnde vmtas Sacerdotalis exorta est a schismaticis & profanis literas ferre nec cogitare eos esse Ro∣manos, quorū fides Apostolo praedicante laudata est, ad quos persidia habere non possit accessum. After al this they dare saile & cary letters frō schismatiks & profane persons to the chaire of Peter & the principal church, whence priestly vnity had her beginning, & do not remēber the Romanes to be those whose faith was praised by the Apostles mouth, to whom infidelity cā not come.

Theo.

You do wel to repeate the place at large, it wil ease me of some paines. What conclude you of these words?

Phi.

That the Bishop of Rome can not er.

Theo.

How fet you that about?

Phi.

To Peters chaire infidelitie can not come.

Theo.

Those be not Cypriās words.

Phi.

To the Romanes,* 2.795 he saith, infidelity cā not come.

Theo.

He addeth somwhat more, whose faith was praised by the Apo∣stles mouth.

Phi.

All the better. For if S. Paul praised their faith, it was the truer.

Theo.

But whose faith did Paul praise? the Bishops or the peoples?

Phi.

Why aske you that?

Theo.

Because that directeth the sense of Cyprians words.

Phi.

Whose say you?

Theo.

I aske you & you returne it to me: Well then let S. Paul speake for vs both.

I thanke my God, through Iesus Christ for you all, because your faith is re∣noumed throughout the whole world.* 2.796 You al containeth as well the people that receiued the faith,* 2.797 as the Preachers that taught it: and of the twaine ra∣ther the people than the Preachers, because the preaching of the faith was as true elsewhere, as in Rome: but either the zeale & deuotion of the people in re∣ceiuing the faith was greater at Rome than elsewhere as S. Hierom noteth, & that S. Paul commendeth; or else because their citie was imperiall, the fame of their receiuing y^e gospel was bruted farther abroad thā of other smaler cities, & did incourage others to go forward w^t the more boldnes, for the which Paul thāketh God. Take which you wil, the peoples faith is it that S. Paul praiseth, as his own words witnesse,* 2.798 To you all that are at Rome: I thanke my God for you all, because your faith is made manifest to al the world. Now if Cyprian say that infidelity can not come to the Romanes whose saith was praised by the Apostles mouth, then can none of the people of Rome erre because the faith of them all was praised by the Apostles mouth.

Phi.

The church of Rome can not erre, nor the people neither so long as they follow the faith of that church.

Theo.

But if you build this on Cyprians words you must say, that the church of Rome can not erre so long as shee followeth the people of Rome, for their faith was praised by the Apostle. And therefore choose whether you will impart this priuiledge to euery Citizen and Artisant in Rome, that they can not erre, as well as to the Pope, that hee can not erre; or else seeke for an other meaning of Cyprians saying.

Phi.

What other mea∣ning should we seeke for? be not the wordes plaine enough?

Theo.

You neither translate them right, nor applie them right.* 2.799 For Cy∣prian doth not discourse in that epistle whether the Romanes them-selues may fall from the faith, but whether wicked persons reiected in other places from the communion should haue any refuge or find any fauour at Rome: & that he largely dissuadeth, bringing this amongst others for a reason, that where the Apostle praised the people of Rome in his time for their zealous imbracing the faith of Christ: and incouraging others to doe the like, it would nowe bee a great shame, if wicked disturbers of the faith should bee succoured by them: which he thought good to expresse in these words,* 2.800 Neither doe they remember the Romanes to bee those whose faith was praised by the Apostles mouth, to whom (wickednes or) vnfaithfulnesse may not haue accesse.

Phi.

Out vpon you: what a gloze haue you brought vs here?

Theo.

None but such as the whole Epistle shal iustifie.

Phi.

You translate, non possit may not.* 2.801

Theo.

A foule ouersight I assure you; as though the very children in Grammer scholes did not learne that posse doth signifie to may or can, or your law it selfe did not allow vs that exposition when it saith,* 2.802 Id dicimur posse quod de iure possumus, we can doe that which by right we can? And Cyprian him∣selfe did not vse the word in that sense when he saide of a Bishop,* 2.803 Iudicari ab alio non possit, cum nec ipse possit alterum iudicare, hee may not bee iudged of an o∣ther, since himselfe may not iudge an other? And euen in his Epistle, * 2.804 Nequ•• potest illis esse frons ad nos accedendi. They can not haue the face to come vn∣to vs.

Phi.

You may thus shift out any thing.

Theo.

It is no shift to tell you that non potest doth not euer signifie an absolute impossibilitie. Nothing is more vsuall neither in sacred or prophane writers, no nor in common speech than that construction of the word which we bring you.* 2.805 Non possum quin exclamem: I can not but crie out saith Cicero: and facere non possum vt nihil ad te dem litera∣rum: I can not but write vnto you. Where is no simple necessitie in either, but an vrgent occasion only.

The Scriptures euerie where vse the word in like sort. God saith, Non po∣tero celare Abraham quae gesturus sum.* 2.806 Can I hide from Abraham that which I am about to doe?* 2.807 Iacobs sonnes answere Sichem and his father, Nō possumus facere quod petitis:* 2.808 We may not do that which you request. Of Io∣sephes brethren the text saith, Nec poterant ei quicquā pacificè loqui: they could not giue him a faire word.* 2.809 Iudas speaking of his brother Beniamin, Non po∣test

puer relinquere patrem suum: and after, Non possum redire adpatrem absente puero: The lad can not leaue his father: I can not returne to my father with∣out him. So Iephta saide to his daughter:* 2.810 I haue opened my mouth to the Lord, & aliud facere non potero, and I can not otherwise doe. When Asaell persued Abner and would not leaue him, Abner said,* 2.811 depart least I be driuen to kill thee, and then can not shew my face to Ioab thy brother.* 2.812 Adonias to Bethsaba the mother of Salomon, Speake I pray thee to king Salomon, ne∣que enim negare tibi quicquam potest, for he can denie thee nothing. The man of Iudah saide to the Prophet that dwelt in Bethell,* 2.813 Non possum reuerti, I can not go backe with thee, though presently he did it.

Infinite are the places both of the olde and new Testament where the word is so vsed. In the Gospell he that was in his bed when his friend spake to him, said,* 2.814 Non possum surgere, I can not rise, and yet he did. The gh••st that maried a wife answered, * 2.815 Non possum venire: I can not come: and yet he might. The master saide to his seruant, * 2.816 Thou canst be steward no longer, when he ment he should not. The Iewes ••aid of Christ: This* 2.817 is an hard speech, who can in∣dure it: which yet his Apostles did. And Christ himselfe saide to his kinsmen, Non * 2.818 potest mundus odisse vos, The world can not hate you: meaning it hath no cause to hate you: Non * 2.819 potest oculus dicere manui, The eie can not say to the hand I haue no neede of thee; S. Paul meaneth if the eye will say truth. So himselfe saith, Non * 2.820 possumus aliquid aduersus veritatem, We can do nothing against the truth, that is we may or will not: So saide the Sonne of God to the church of Ephesus, Scio * 2.821 quia non potes sustinere malos: I know thou canst not abide them that are euill. A thowsande like there are in euery part of the Scripture, but these are enough to perswade any sober mind, that we bring no new nor strange interpretation of Cyprians words but such as is familiar and frequent in the bookes of God and mouthes of men.

Phi.

The words perhaps may be so taken if that were proued to be Cypri∣ans meaning in this place.

Theo.

The wordes standing indifferent to both constructions, yours and ours; wee shall quickly see, which of them commeth neerest to Cyprians meaning. The sense, which you make, besides that it is absurde in it selfe, it neither serueth the worde, nor matcheth the circumstan∣ces of this Epistle, nor agreeth with the maine iudgement of Cyprian in his other writinges, and that which is most of all, it flatly dissenteth from S. Paul, who would neither warne the Romanes to feare without cause, nor threaten thē with thinges impossible.

Phi.

Proue this, and expounde the place how you list.

Theo.

Both Cypriā & Paul name generally the Romanes,* 2.822 & not seuerally the Bishop of Rome from the rest. Next, habere accessum noteth not any corruptiō springing, or not springing within thēselues, but only resort of others vnto thē. Thirdly Cyprian complaineth that this was done, and toucheth the vnshame∣fastnesse of heretikes for doing it, which you would presse as impossible to bee done. Fourthly the thing which those perfidious persons sought at Rome

was not any mutation of the faith, but letters of fellowshippe and communion, which the Bishops of Africa denied them for their sundry disorders. Last of al, repeating and commending the warines of the Romanes in shunning the poy∣son of heretiks, he shutteth vp his letter with wordes very like the former and declareth the true meaning of that he spake before.

* 2.823Let our most beloued brethren hereafter stoutly decline and forbeare (all) speach and talk with such men. Though I know our brotherhood there (at Rome) garded with your foresight,* 2.824 and watchfull enough of themselues, nec capi haereticorum venenis posse nec decipi, can neither be taken, nor deceiued with the venemous deuises of heretikes. The right cause then why the Ro∣manes in Cyprians time could not be caught with the baites of heretikes, was not Peters priuilege, or impossibilitie to er, as you fondly dreame, but the wise∣dome of Cornelius directing them, and the peoples care neither to speake nor eate with any such men: And this diligence remaining, it was not possible that the impietie or infidelitie of others should haue accesse vnto them.

* 2.825Other opinion of the Romanes Cyprian neuer had, and as for the Bishop of Rome, that he might and did erre, if the wordes of Cyprian to Pompeius against the letters of Stephanus Bishop of Rome be not plaine enough in the iudgement of any reasonable man, wee yeelde you the whole. In reading the letters (of the Bishop of Rome) you may more and more perceiue, saith Cyprian,* 2.826 his errour, which defendeth the cause of heretikes against the church of God. And so likewise he saith of Stephanus, haeresin contra Ecclesia•• vindicat, he bolstereth heresie against the church: Sua praua & falsa defendit, defendeth his euill and false assertion. I respect not which of the twaine had the better side, Stephanus or Cyprian, but onely whether Cyprian had that opinion of Stephanus and other Bishops of Rome that they coulde not erre; and if you haue but common sense you must say no. Much lesse did Cy∣prian euer meane to saie that the people of Rome coulde not erre, which your selues dare not saie, and yet you woulde wring it out of Cyprians wordes. But God be thanked, Sainct Paul hath preuented your wicked in∣terprise.

Writing to the whole church of Rome, and giuing them their due praise for their deuotion and zeale,* 2.827 and entering at last into the reiection of the Iewes for their vnbeliefe, hee warneth expresly the Romanes in these wordes: Boast not thy selfe against the braunches: and if thou boast thy selfe thou bearest not the roote but the roote thee. Thou wilt say the braunches are broken off, that I might bee graft in. Well, through infidelitie they are broken off, & thou standest by faith: Be not high minded but feare. For, if God spa∣red not the naturall braunches, (take heed) lest he spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodnes and seuerity of God: toward them which haue fallen, seueritie; but towards thee, goodnes, if thou continue in his goodnes, other∣wise thou also shalt be cut off.

Whether the Apostle spake generally to the Gentiles, and inclusiuely to

the Romanes: or namely to the Romanes and proportionablie to the rest, it is all one to vs:* 2.828 one of the twaine, hee must needes. Origen saith vppon these wordes of Paul, I say to you Gentiles: Now he plainely turneth his speech to the Gentiles, but chiefly to those of the citie of Rome, that belee∣ued. S. Paul speaking to the Romanes, no man may except the Romanes; and they being included, his admonition to them, feare and beware least, was vtterly superfluous if there coulde bee no daunger in them of swaruing from the faith; and the condition implied, otherwise (if thou continue not) and the commination annexed, thou also shalt be cut off: were both ridiculous and o∣dious if it were not possible for them to fal or to be cut off. Fight not therefore against the holy Ghost with broken reedes caught here and there out of the Fa∣thers works:* 2.829 Looke rather in time to this watchword which the apostle giueth you, feare and take heede, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And marke his reason, If the naturall braunches may be broken off, much more the wild which were planted but in their steedes.

Phi.

If that had beene the Apostles meaning, doe you thinke the Fathers would haue gainesaide it?* 2.830

Theo.

I thinke they would not, and I see they doe not: and that maketh mee to interprete Cyprian in such sort as hee may agree with himselfe, and not confront S. Paul.

Phi.

His wordes do surely leane on our side.

Theo.

They fit your humor, and in that respect you be eger on them: O∣therwise I haue cleared Cyprian both of that speech & of that intent. And were you not vnshamefast wranglers you would perceiue that the ordinary vse of the phrase both in diuine and humane writinges doth acquite him of that opinion, which you inforce vpon him: But such is your profession you must go on as you haue begun.

Phi.

If one alone had saide it, we would not vrge it so often; but S. Hierom hath likewise testified the same. Know you that the Romane faith commended by the Apostles mouth will receiue no such deceites, nor can be possibly changed, though an Angell from heauen taught otherwise being fensed by S. Pauls authority. Tom. 2. Apolog. aduers. Ruff. lib. 3. cap. 4.

Theo.

If S. Hierom say the same that Cyprian did, he must be taken and vnderstood as Cyprian was; and so you ease me of that labour.

Phi.

He saith the same in effect, but his words are more forcible.

Theo.

That is, your wilfulnesse in peruerting and racking the words of S. Hierom is more sensible. For S. Hierom speaketh not one word of the persons, that they shall neuer fall from the faith, but auoucheth only that the doctrine which was first preached at Rome, and then continued, was so exact and perfect that an Angell from heauen might not bee heard against it. And to this ende hee saide,* 2.831 Scito Romanam fidem, Apostolica voce laudatam istiusmodi praestigias non recipere: etiamsi Angelus de coelo a••••ter annunciet quam semel praedicatum est Pauli authoritate munitā, nō posse mutari. Know you that the Romane faith commē∣ded by the Apostles voice receiueth no such delusions, and that being armed with Pauls authority it may not bee changed, if an Angell from hauen doe preach otherwise, than once was preached.

Phi.

You run againe to your former interpretation: Non posse mutari, it may not be changed, in steede of it can not be changed.

Theo.

Use which you will, so you grant, which I fully proued before, that non posse doth vsually sig∣nifie as well that which is vnlawfull, as that which is vnpossible.

Phi.

I know non possum, is vsed diuersely, but how doth that answere S. Hierom?

Theo.

You take h••lde of a word in Hierom, which in all mens speech and writinges hath diuerse and sundrie significations by your owne confession, and then you maruell why we doe not receiue the vntruest and vnlikeliest of them all for your pleasures without any farther proofe. Non possum doth import that which is ei∣ther vnpossible, vnlawfull, inconuenient or any waie impugnant to the ful persuasion and determination of our mindes,* 2.832 as the places before alleadged doe manfestly declare, and in all those accidentes, our common speech is & may be non possum, I can not. You would now by a text of Hieroms, where he saith, Romanam fidem non posse mutari, etiam si Angelus de caelo, &c. The Romane faith may not, or can not be charged though an Angel (came) from heauen, infer that the Romanes vntill the worldes end can not possibly choose but abide in the same faith which was first deliuered them; and that doe what they will to the contrarie, they must be preserued in Christes trueth. This is wee say a shamefull violence offered to Hieroms wordes against all learning, against his meaning, and against the spirit of God speaking in S. Paul.

First the wordes non posse mutari, receiue both constructions a like, that is either a change of the faith can neuer happen in the Romanes, which is your sense, or else their faith can not possibly bee changed without in∣curring infidelitie,* 2.833 which is ours. For it ceaseth to bee faith when once it is changed. Next S. Hierom speaketh not of the persons but of the thing: hee doth not say the Romanes can not change their mindes, but the faith which was deliuered them, in no wise may be chaunged. And why? Because it is the truth of God which neuer changeth. Againe the authoritie of Paul writing to the Galathians which Hierom citeth, doth not warrant that the Romanes shal not fall, but onely that the faith once preached may not be changed though an An∣gell from heauen should attempt it, especially since the Apostle commended the doctrine which they reserued to be the true christian faith. What reason then haue you besides your parcial affectiō to the See of Rome, to draw these words from their natiue sense, which is good and religious, to your priuate conceit, which sauoreth altogither of mere vanitie and open flattery?

Phi.

What S. Hierom meant, God doth know, you do not.

Theo.

No more do you; but y^• hee meant not this which you would father on him, we haue his owne witnes which you must beleeue vnlesse you can shewe better. Thus hee complaineth of the Romanes both Pristes & people in the epitaph of Mar∣cella. Haeretica in hijs Prouincijs exorta tempestas, nauemplenam blasphemiarum Romano intulit portu••,* 2.834 &c. & Romanae fidei purissimum fontem caeno lutosa permis∣cuere vestigia. Tunc sancta Marcella postquam sensit fidem Apostolico ore lauda∣tam in plerisque violari, ita vt sacerdotes quoque ac nonnullos Monachorum maxi∣me{que}

seculi homines in assensum sui traheret, ac simplicitati illuderet episcopi, publice restitit. An hereticall tempest rising in these Countries (of the East) caried full saile into the hauen of Rome; &c. & vncleane feete did trouble with mud the most pure fountaine of the Romane faith. Then holy Marcella, when shee sawe the faith praised by the Apostles mouth violated in most thinges, so that (this heresie) drew the Priestes and some Monkes and specially lai∣men into the consent of it selfe, and deluded the simplicitie of the Bishop (of Rome,* 2.835) shee began to resist openly. Note Sir that come to passe in Hieroms age and knowledge, which you would proue by Hieroms words to be in all ages impossible. The fountaine of the Romane faith defiled with mud, the faith praised by the Apostles violated in most things, the Priests, the people drawen into the same consent, & the seely Bishop of Rome abused by them, and the first that openly resisted a poore widow.

Go then and blaze to the world,* 2.836 as you haue done, in your magistrall annota∣tions or rather deprauations of the new Testament (which as you haue dres∣sed it with your deuises and glozes, is now nothing lesse than the Testament of Christ) proclaime I say that infidelity can not come to the Romanes, nor their faith be possibly changed, & that vpon the credits of Cyprian & Hierom, when they themselues did see, and say the contrary.

Phi.

We take no such care for the people of Rome, whether they may straie from the faith or no: Peters successour is he that our eyes are and ought to bee rather bent on; and touching his holines, we be resolued that he can not erre in faith.

Theo.

His holinesse hath very good lucke then and better than all his neighbours besides:* 2.837 but how shall wee knowe that hee can not erre? Your worde is too weake to be taken for a matter of such weight: fathers you bring none, Scriptures you haue none, which way will you make it appeare that his holinesse can not be stained with error?

Phi.

No maruell that our Master would haue his vicars Consistorie and seate in∣fallible, seeing euen in the olde law, the high Priesthood and chaire of Moses wanted not great priuilege in this case, though nothing like the churches and Peters preroga∣tiue.

Theo.

But we maruell where you finde that Christ would haue any vicar, or that his vicars Seat is infallible, or that the Bishop is that vicar which you speake of, and we most maruell that you auouch al this vpon your single report without script or scrole to confirme the same.

The chaire of Moses had no such priuilege as you chalenge.* 2.838 The people were to learne the law of God at the Priestes handes, and hee that presumptu∣ouslie despised the Priest or Magistrate giuing iudgement according to the tenour of Gods law, died the death. But this doth not proue that either the Priest or the Magistrate coulde not erre: or that the Prophetes did not iust∣ly reproue the Priestes when they sate to iudge according to the lawe,* 2.839 for their manifest contempts & breaches of the Law. God by the mouth o•• Malachy both describeth what the Priestes should do, & declareth what the Priests had done. The Priestes lippes should preserue knowledge,* 2.840 and they shoulde seeke the

law at his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes. But yee are gone out of the way (O ye Priests,* 2.841) ye haue caused many to fall by the lawe: ye haue broken the couenant of Leui, saith the Lord of hostes.

This proude priuilege which you mention, was claimed by the wicked Priestes in Ieremies time. Come, say they, let vs imagine some deuise against Ieremie:* 2.842 for the law shall not perish from the Priest, nor counsell from the wise, nor the word from the Prophet. But God assureth them by his Pro∣phet for this their arrogant presumption, that the law should perish from the Priest,* 2.843 and counsell from the auncient. What grosse idolatrie Vriah the Priest committed to please king Ahaz, the Scripture will tell you. And were there no speciall examples, the serious inuectiues of the Prophets against them and the whole land as well for false religion, as corrupt manners, are euident testimonies that Priestes from the lowest to the highest might erre. Esaie saith,* 2.844 The Priest and the Prophet haue erred, they haue gone awaie, they faile in vision, they stumble in iudgement. Our Sauiour charged his Dis∣ciples, to beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadduces, which nee∣ded not vnlesse it were erronious. And think you these were no errours which the Sonne of God reproued in the Pharisees? You haue made the cōmaun∣dement of God of no authoritie by your tradition: & many such like things you do: teaching (for) doctrines the commandements of men. The Sad∣duces errour denying both the resurrection of the bodie and immortality of the soule,* 2.845 is often mentioned in the Scriptures, and openly refuted by our Sauior. And yet the high Priestes were often Sadduces, and in the chiefe councels & consistories of Ierusalem, where the greatest causes of religion and matters of weight were determined, sate * 2.846 halfe Sadduces, halfe Pharisees, & sometimes * 2.847only Sadduces which were plaine Atheis••s and wicked heretikes.

Phi.

That ouerthroweth not Peters priuilege.

Theo.

Much lesse doth it establish Peters priuilege, for the which cause you allege it; but if Moses suc∣cessour might erre, why not Peters?

Phi.

Our assertion is they can not erre: you say they can. Reason is that you proue your affirmatiue.

Theo.

The Scri∣pture proueth the generall,* 2.848 that God is true and all men lyars, you ex∣cept the Bishoppe of Rome as not subiect to errour and ignoraunce: rea∣son is you proue your exception and that strongly, least you bee conuicted of insolent presumption to fasten the spirite of truth to the Popes chaire without great and good assurance from him that is the fountaine of truth and the giuer of the holy Ghost.

Phi.

We hold by Christes promise.

Theo.

Shew that and you be dischar∣ged.

Phi.

Thy faith shall not faile.

Theo.

Proue that to bee spoken to the Bishoppe of Rome.

Phi.

It was spoken to Peter.

Theo.

But not to the Pope.

Phi.

That which Peter had, his successour must haue.

Theo.

The charge which Christ gaue Peter to feede his sheepe is common to all Pastours: But with the mercy which Christ shewed him in conuerting him and restoring him after his fall, what haue his successors to do? Christ promised Peter repentance:

will you therefore inferre that all Popes haue the like promises? Or had they, as they haue not, doeth this let but they may forsweare their master and loose their faith, as Peter did, notwithstanding this praier, and promise of Christ made vnto him?

Phi.

But they shall also repent as Peter did.

Theo.

If you could proue that promise to pertaine vnto them, as you can not, yet might their errour be publike and their conuersion secret as Peters was; and since they bee subiect to Peters fall, namely to denie both their faith and their master, though they were promised repentance with him, as they bee not; yet howe can you knowe what thinges proceeded from the Popes mouth erring and which from the Popes hart repenting? Which vnlesse you doe, you may erre with him, to your eternall confusion, and not repent with him, for that you haue not the like promise.

Phi.

I will bee with you to the worldes ende saith Christ,* 2.849 and hee forsa∣keth those that erre. So that if the church should erre, this promise of his were not kept, which God forbid.

Theo.

You shew the goodnesse of your cause when you reele thus from the Pope to the church and from the church to the Pope, and yet finde nothing to fitte you. Christ is with euery one of his, and not onely with the Pope, as you would haue the place to sound; and yet I thinke you will not affirm that no christian can erre. Many good men haue erred, euen in matters of faith, and yet not beene forsaken of Christ. The longer you rea∣son, the farther you bee from prouing that the Pope can not erre. For this pro∣mise concerneth him no more than it doth any other christian, and perhaps not so much; or if it did, yet doth it not free him from errour.

Phi.

The promise which is generall to euery member of the church,* 2.850 concer∣neth him chiefly that is head of the church.

Theo.

Keepe this head of yours till the body need it; the church of Christ hath a surer and better head thā the Pope, or else it were ill with her.

Phi.

Christ we know is the head of his church and the onely head in such soueraigne and principall manner as no earthly man is or can be, yet the Pope may be the ministeriall head.

Theo.

When you proue it, then say it; in the meane while abuse not the word of God to serue your follies.* 2.851 Christ dwelleth in the hartes (of all that bee his) by faith; with them he remaineth vntill the worldes end. What is this to the Pope, or how doth this fense him from errour?

Phi.

If he be Christs he can not erre.

Theo.

This text doth not proue him to be one of Christs: but if he bee, then Christ is with him as hee is with all other his members.

Phi.

And they can not erre with whom Christ is.

Theo.

Bee these your demonstrations that the Pope can not erre, to shewe for him no better, nor other priui∣lege, than that which is common to him with women & children, if they be mē∣bers of Christ? And were he a mēber of Christ, which as yet for ought that I see you can hardly proue, hee might be deceiued in some cases of religion, as well as Lactantius, Irineus, Cyprian and others, men of great learning and good account in the church of God.

Phi.

Our Sauiour saieth it is not possible that the electe shoulde

be seduced.* 2.852

Theo.

Not possible they should bee seduced to fall from God as the wicked are: Yet as they may sinne but not vnto death, euen so may they erre but not vnto destruction. Their errour shall either be not finall, or not mor∣tall.

Phi.

May they that erre, bee saued?

Theo.

If they holde fast the foundation which is Christ, and erre not of wilfull obstinacie, but of humane frailtie, why may they not bee saued? S. Cyprian said of those that were be∣fore him:* 2.853 If any of our predecessours either ignorantly or simply did not ob∣serue and keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed, his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God. And S. Augustin said of him,* 2.854 when an errour of his was alleadged by the Donatistes for their defence: Cyprian either was not all of this opinion, or he after corrected it by the rule of truth, or this blemish in his most beautifull brest he couered with the teates of charity. And farther alleadgeth and alloweth this saying of Cyprians:* 2.855 Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti, he that erreth of simplicity may be pardoned.

Of himselfe and all others S. Augustine saith:* 2.856 Homines sumus vnde aliquid aliter sapere quàm se res habet humana tentatio est. In nullo autem aliter sapere quā se res habet Angelica perfectio est.* 2.857 We are men, and therefore to thinke other∣wise than the truth is, is (humane infirmitie or) a tentation common to man. To be deceiued in nothing is Angelicall perfection. And therefore writing to S. Hierom, and of S. Hierom, he saith:* 2.858 Prorsus non te arbitror sic legi libros tuos velle tanquam Prophetarum aut Apostolorum, de quorum scriptis quòd omni errore careant, dubitare nefarium. Absit hoc à pia humilitate & veraci de temetipso cogi∣tatione. I am fully of opinion that you would not haue your books to be read in such sort as wee do the Prophetes and Apostles, of whose writinges to doubt whether they be free from all errour is wickednesse. Be this far from godly humilitie and the true perswasion of your selfe. So that set the Apo∣stles aside and their writinges,* 2.859 no man ought to thinke of himselfe that hee can not erre, neither can you haue that opinion of any man without a proude & false perswasion aboue mans state and against Gods truth.

Phi.

What shall wee then saie to the promise which our Lorde made to his?* 2.860 When hee, the spirite of trueth commeth, hee shall teach you all trueth.

Theo.

If it bee referred to the Apostles then present with him,* 2.861 as the wordes next before doe specifie, I haue yet many things to saie vnto you, but you can not beare them nowe; wee graunt those witnesses chosen by Christ to teach all Nations, were to bee furnished with all trueth and to bee established in the same; but if it bee extended to all the faithfull, they also shall bee ledde into all trueth needefull and requi∣site to saluation, I meane the substantiall groundes of faith, though in some questions of Religion happilie they shall not all bee like minded.

Phi.

And what for the Churche, shall shee haue no parte in this promise?

Theoph.

If the faythfull haue, the Church, which is the number and collection of the faythfull, must needes haue: But that the greater part

of those which professe christianitie or some speciall places or persons must for euer be directed vnto all truth and preserued from all error, this can not be con∣cluded by these wordes.

Phi.

To teach all truth and preserue in truth and from errour the holy Ghost is promised and perfourmed onely to the church and the chiefe gouernour and generall councels thereof.* 2.862

Theo.

In deede you take vpon you like Gouernors to appoint what the son of God shal meane & who must haue the holy Ghost,* 2.863 as if the mat∣ter were in your hands & not in his.

Phi.

Do we take vpon vs to limit the holy Ghost?

Theo.

What else do you when of your owne heades you restraine the words of our Sauior as you li••t?

Phi.

As we list?

Theo.

Our Sauiours words are, When that spirit of truth commeth he shal teach you al truth.* 2.864 This say you is promised & perfourmed only to the church, & the chiefe Gouernor (the Pope) and generall Councels thereof. As if You in S. Iohns Gospel did signifie none but the Pope, the chiefe Gouernor, and such Bishops as the Pope will admit to his conferences, which you call the generall councels of the church; and what is this else but to diuide the holy Ghost as you thinke good?

Phi.

The rulers of the church must needs haue the holy Ghost.

Theo.

Meane you all or some?

Phi.

The most part of them.

Theo.

How proue you that to be Christes meaning, that the most part of them which can procure them∣selues miters,* 2.865 or rather catch vp Bishoprickes shall be sure of the holy Ghost in such measure that they shall neuer mistake the saith, nor any parte thereof?

Phi.

If they should erre, the church should erre.

Theo.

You run from bad to worse. Your own law wil shew you the falsenes & peruersnes of your Rhe∣mish obseruations and expositions:* 2.866 Quaero de qua Ecclesia intelligas quod hic di∣citur quod non possit errare. Side ipso Papa, certum est quod Papa errare potest. Respondeo, Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia, & talis Ecclesia non po∣test non esse. I demaund of what church it is ment when it is saide, as here, that the church can not erre.* 2.867 If of the Pope himselfe, it is certaine that the Pope may erre. I answere the congregatiō of the faithfull is here called the church, and that church can not chose but continue. The spirit of truth is not promised to the Pope, nor to his councels, but to the faithfull whether they be seuered or assembled, and they shall not erre, that is they shall not perish in errour as the wicked do; but shall either be recouered from their errour, or find mercy for their ignorance.

Phi.

May the whole church erre?

Theo.

If wee shoulde graunt you that the whole church can not erre,* 2.868 to wit that all the faithfull on the earth at one time can not bee deceiued in any necessarie point of faith, but that Christ for his promise sake will preserue truth amongest them, what is this to the Pope, or his Cardinals, or Conuenticles, to whom you conuey the holy Ghost by inheritance?

Phi.

Neuer delude vs with ifs, but tell vs whether you think the whole church may erre or no.

Theo.

In matters of faith wee thinke it can not.

Phi.

If the church can not er, the Gouernors of the church can not.

The.

Leaue

trifling and fall to reasoning: The whole church can not erre; ergo what?

Phi.

Ergo the Pastors, & Preachers can not erre.

Theo.

Conclude you all or none?

Phi.

To say no Pastour can erre, were apparent madnesse.

Theo.

And y^e next which is, all Pastours can not erre, doeth you no pleasure. For the Bishop of Rome may erre & so may the rest of his mitred and twiforked creatures; & yet many good Pastours and Preachers keepe fast to the faith. Howbeit this con∣clusion doth not follow vpon my confession.* 2.869 The whole church (I graunt) can not er, that, is all and euery the faithful can not er, therefore all Pastours can not er, this is no kind of consequēt. For some of the faithful may be directed vn∣to truth, & they no pastors nor preachers; & many preachers may be preserued from errour, & they no Bishops; & many Bishops may be kept in the faith, and they not assembled; & a great number of those that be assembled may bee right∣ly affected, and yet not the most part of them; and the greater side may be wel disposed, and yet not the Bishop of Rome, whom you make to be the moderator and guider of all councels: And therefore your argument is very childish: The whole church can not erre, ergo generall councels can not erre, and specially the Pope: which later part your best friendes haue not onely refuted as false, but also detested for incredible and shamefull flatterie.

Phi.

So say you.

Theo.

So say they. Alfonsus that wrote bitterly against Luther,* 2.870 when he came to this point, dealt plainely in these wordes. Non credo aliquem esse adeo impudentem Papae assentatorem, vt ei tribuere ho•• velit vt nec er∣rare possit: I can not thinke any man to be so impudent a flatterer of the Pope, as to attribute this vnto him that he can not er.* 2.871

Phi.

Alfonsus hath no such words.

Theo.

You say truth, Alfonsus now hath not, but Alfonsus had those wordes in his former editions. And this commendeth your cunning that you can curtaile the writinges of your fellowes & leaue out what you list when you new print them.

Phi.

It was his owne correcting in his seconde edition.

Theo.

Whether it was his doing or yours we care not:* 2.872 the wordes remaine in the olde Printes to the manifest condemnation of your follie and flatterie in this behalfe: And in his new copies though he qualifie his termes, hee holdeth flatly the same opinion. Omnis homo errare potest in fide, etiam sipapa sit. Euerie man may erre in faith,* 2.873 euen the Pope himselfe. And so you heard your owne gloze before affirme, It is certaine, the Pope may erre.

The same is confessed by the best of your side both canonistes and diuines. Panormitane saith,* 2.874 Concilium potest condemnare Papam de haeresi, vt in cap. Si Papa. Distinct. 40. vbi dicitur quod Papa potest esse haereticus & de haeresi iudica∣ri. A councell may condemne the Pope of heresie, as appeareth in the 40. Distinct. cap. Si Papa. Where it is saide that the Pope may be an here∣tik, & iudged of heresie. Lyra saith, * 2.875 Multi summi Pontifices inuenti sunt aposta∣tasse à side: Many Popes haue proued apostataes. Augustinus de Ancona: * 2.876 Papa est deponendus pro haeresi: ad Cōciliū spectat Papā in haeresi deprehensum condēnare, vel deponere. The Pope may be deposed for heresie: A coūcel may condemn or depose the Pope deprehended in heresie. Antonius Archbishop of Flo∣rence,

* 2.877 Pro haeresi (Papa) congruè ipso facto deponitur. For heresie the Pope is ipso facto deposed, and no inconuenience. And to that ende hee alleadgeth Petrus de Palude, saying, * 2.878 Papa quando labitur in haeresin tunc ••o ipso est praecisus ab Ecclesia, & desinit esse caput. The Pope when hee fal∣leth into an heresie, is presently cutte off from the Church and ceaseth to bee the heade of it. So Gerson the Chauncellour of Paris: * 2.879Tam Pa∣pa quam Episcopus deuiabiles à fide. The Pope may swarue from the fayth as well as an other Bishop.

The generall councell of Basill saith,* 2.880 Saepe experti sumus & legimus Pa∣pam errasse. Wee haue often both found out by experience and reade that the Pope hath erred. And againe, Cum certum sit Papam errare posse. For so much as it is certaine the Pope may erre. Aeneas Syluius afterwarde Pius the seconde inueying against them that woulde not haue councels gathe∣red without the Popes consent, saith:* 2.881 What remedie shall there bee if a sinnefull Pope trouble the Church, if hee destroie soules, if hee peruert the people with his euill example? Si denique contraria fidei praedicet, haereticis{que} dogmatibus imbuat subditos: If he teach against the faith and infect those that be vnder him with hereticall opinions.

Cardinall Caietane and Pope Innocentius the fourth though they had good cause to fauour the See of Rome,* 2.882 yet were they clearely resolued, the Pope might erre, and so were all the writers of your owne religion before this our age that euer I hearde of, and euen at this day the sincerest of them dislike the vnshamefastnesse of your assertion.* 2.883 Papa in fide errare potest, vt melius sen∣tientes tenent, etiam ex hijs qui Papatui plurimum fauent. Inter quos est Innocen∣tius eius nominis quartus Pontifex in cap. 1. De summa Trinitate. The Pope may erre in fayth as the truer opinion is euen of them that fauour the pope∣dome verie much. Amongest whome is Innocentius the fourth of that name Bishoppe of Rome,* 2.884 writing vppon the first chapter De summa Tri∣nitate. Arboreus a Doctor of Paris and one of your chiefe Sorbonistes: Papa in fide errare Potest. Et tota mihi aberrare via videtur qui aliter sentit. Assentantur sane Romano Pontifici qui faciunt cum immunem à lapsu haereseos & schismatis. The Pope may erre in fayth.* 2.885 And he seemeth to mee to bee in foule errour that thinketh otherwise. Surely they doe but flatter the Bishoppe of Rome, that make him free from falling into heresie and schisme.

Erasmus pithily impugneth your inconsiderate follie,* 2.886 If it bee true which some say, that the Bishop of Rome can neuer erre iudicially, what neede ge∣nerall councels? Why are men skilled in the lawes and learned in diuini∣tie sent for to councels, if hee pronouncing can not erre? To what purpose are so many Vniuersities troubled with handling questions of faith, when truth may be had from his mouth? Nay how commeth it to passe that the decrees of one Pope are repugnāt to the decrees of an other? This perswa∣sion of yours must needes be naught which so many of your owne side haue

condemned before our dayes, and the sobrest of your selues that haue written since our time doe vtterly disclaime. And therefore aduise you, whether you will faierly resigne this fansie, or be conuinced by the verdict of your fellowes, for men-pleasers and flatterers. It is farre from a Catholike position which your owne church in the midst of darkenesse would neuer acknowledge, and at this daie none defende,* 2.887 but such hungrie ghestes as you be that gape for thankes, and seeke to please.

Phi.

You falsely charge vs with vnhonest res∣pectes.

Theo.

It is not my iudgement of you, but theirs that otherwise haue no cause to thinke euill of you.

Phi.

The reason that moueth vs so to say is for that we finde no Pope that euer erred.

Theo.

You refuse Councels, Fathers, Stories and all that come in your way, because you will not finde it.

Phi.

We refuse not that is ancient or indifferent: but onely such as we thinke partiall.

Theo.

Then if there bee no cause why they should be partiall; you will admit them for credible.

Phi.

We will.

Theo.

We expect no more.

What say you then to Clemens the first of that name as you make your ac∣count, though wee thinke it a leude forgerie in his name? Doe not your own Decrees report out of his decretall epistles, that amongest christians al things ought to be common, euen wiues and all? Communis vita omnibus fratres ne∣cessaria est: Communis enim vsus omnium, quae sunt in hoc mundo omnibus esse ho∣minibus debuit. In omnibus autem sunt sine dubio & coniuges. A common life is necessarie for all men, brethren: the vse of all thinges that are in this world ought to be common to all men. And in al things no doubt are wiues contained.

Phi.

He meaneth not the carnall vse of women, but their domestical seruice ought to be common.

Theo.

So your gloze would make vp the breach, but all in vaine. For Socrates in Platoes common wealth (whom your Cle∣mens in this place citeth and calleth Graecorum sapientissimum, the wisest of the Graecians) rehearsing the prouerbe which Clemens here vseth,* 2.888 inferreth that the coniunction of men & women, and procreation of children ought to bee common,* 2.889 which is a monstruous and heinous errour. And were that excused, the the rest is a shamefull absurditie that all other thinges ought of necessitie to bee common amongst christians. For the Scriptures do not exact that no mā should possesse any thing, but onely that charitie should gladly distribute & supply the wantes of such as neede.

Phi.

Your selfe thinke this to be forged in Cle∣mentes name.

Theo.

We do, but you do not, and therefore against you the in∣stance is good.

The next is Tertullians testimonie who saith of the Bishop of Rome that he agnised the prophesies of Montanus and sent (letters of communion) and peace to the churches in Asia and Phrygia that were of that sect.* 2.890

Phi.

But hee reuoked those letters, and ceased from that purpose, as Tertul∣lian also confesseth.

Theo.

Hee reuoked them after they were sent, and ceased from that which he first acknowledged. Episcopum Romanum tunc ag∣noscentem prophetias Montani,* 2.891 & ex ea cognitione pacem Ecclesiis Asia

& Phrygiae inferentem, falsa de ipsis prophetis adseuerando coegit, & literas pacis re∣uocare tam emissas, & a proposito recipiendorum schismatum concessare: (Praxeas the heretike) forced the Bishoppe of Rome then agnising the Prophesies of Montanus, and vppon good liking (of them) giuing peace to their Chur∣ches in Asia and Phrygia to reuoke his letters of cōmunion when they were sent, and to cease from his purpose of embracing their doctrine.

Phi.

Tertullian was of that sect himselfe, and therefore no indifferent wit∣nes.

Theo.

Indifferent enough to report the fact, though not to iudge of the cause: and we bring Tertullian not to commend Montanus error, but to shewe what the Bishoppe of Rome did.

Phi.

He beganne to like them, but it tooke not effect.

Theo.

Hee wrate letters of peace to the Montanists, and sent them away, which is enough to conuince that he erred, though hee after relented from his former enterprise.

How Mercellinus Bishoppe of Rome sacrificed vnto Idols and denyed it when it was obiected to him,* 2.892 and was after reproued by sufficient witnesse and condemned for it, the Synod extant in your first booke of councels doth declare, and Damasus writing the liues of his predecessours doth testifie the same.

Phi.

Hee fell in persecution, but he repented after and suffered for Christ, as Peter did.

Theo.

And therefore the Bishoppe of Rome may fall from the faith, for so did Peter and Marcellinus: but whether he shal be renewed by repentance as they were, that is neither knowne to you, nor beleeued of vs.

Phi.

We care not if they fall, so they rise againe.

Theo.

We proue they may fal: Proue you they shall not choose but rise againe.

Phi.

They haue all done so that yet are mentioned,* 2.893 and so did Liberius whō I knowe you will name next; although wee may worthily doubt, whether euer hee fell or no.

Theo.

You and your fellowes make a doubt of it, but I see no reason why you should. For it is confirmed by many sounde and sufficient wit∣nesses, who both for the time when, and place where they liued, did and might best know the trueth of that matter.

Phi.

Ruffinus doubteth of it, Theodoretus denyeth it, and Socrates in∣clineth rather to vs,* 2.894 than otherwise.

Theo.

Ruffinus sayth, whether it were so or no pro certo compertum non habeo, I know not for a certaintie. Socrates ma∣keth neither with it, nor against it: but passeth it ouer with silence. And so doth Theodorete, onely hee sayth the Emperour at the supplication of the Gentle∣women of Rome, Flecti se passus iussit optimum quidem Liberium de exilio reuocari. Suffering him self to be intreated, commaunded the good bishop Liberius to bee called from banishment. But this excludeth not his subscription before hee receiued his place, which Sozomene writeth.

The Emperour at the intercession of the West Bishoppes recalleth Libe∣rius from Beroea (whither hee was banished) and assembling the Bishoppes that were in his tents compelleth him to confesse the sonne (of God) not to bee of the same substance with his father.* 2.895 Basilius, Eustathius, and Eleusius induced Liberius to consent by this meanes that some vnder the colour

of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, did labour secretly to confirme heresie. When this was done the Emperour gaue him leaue to go to his Bishopricke.

Phi.

Will you beleeue Sozomene before the rest that report no such thing?

Theo.

Their silence doth not preiudice his Storie. And yet Sozomene is not the first author of this report. Athanasius who liued in the same age with Libe∣rius, and for whose cause Liberius was banished & therefore woulde say no more than truth by him, witnesseth no lesse.* 2.896 Liberius post exactum in exilio biennium in∣flexus est, minisque mortis ad subscriptionem inductus est. Liberius after two yeres spent in banishment inclined, & by feare of death was induced to subscribe. Damasus that was Bishoppe of Rome, next after Liberius, and therfore could not be ignorant of the trueth, and woulde not belie his owne See, saith of him, Ingressus Liberius in vrbem Roman•• 4. nonas Augusti consensit Constantio haeretico.* 2.897 Non tamen rebaptizatus est, sed consensum praebuit. Liberius entering the citie of Rome the 4. of the nones of August consented to Constantius the heretike. He was not rebaptized, but hee gaue his consent. Hierom brought vp at Rome in the time of Liberius and after so neere Damasus that hee was his right hand in answering all Synodal consultations, and in that respect had often and easie accesse to the Recordes and monuments of the Church of Rome, writeth of Fortunatianus Bishoppe of Aquileia.* 2.898 In hoc habetur detestabilis quod Liberium Romanae vrbis Episcopum pro fide ad exilium pergentē primus solicitauit ac fregit, & ad subscriptionem hareseos compulit: In this he is coūted detestable, that he first attempted Liberius the Bishoppe of Rome going into banishment for the fayth, and preuayled with him and gate him to subscribe to the (Arrian) he∣resie. In his addition to Eusebius Chronicle hee saith as much: Liberius taedi•• victus exilij & in haereticam prauitatem subscribens Romā quasi victor intrauerat. Liberius wearied with his banishment and subscribing to hereticall prauitie had entered Rome as a conquerour.

We aske not what authoritie you haue to counteruaile these; wee knowe you haue none: but what reason haue you to resist these?

Phi.

The rest agree not with them.* 2.899

Theo.

Omission in one writer is no good argument against an o∣ther: foure affirme it, and euery one of thē elder and likelier to come by y^e trueth than Theodorete: & yet Theodorete doth not gainsay, but only ouerskip y^e fact. If therefore to claw the Bishoppe of Rome, you refuse the consent of Athana∣sius, Hierom, Damasus and Sozomene, you doe but discouer your follie to the wiser sort, and hazard your credite with the simple: If you receiue their testimo∣nie touching this fact, then is there no doubt, but the Bishop of Rome subscri∣bed vnto Arianisme: and whether hee repented or no, wee may worthily doubt, since your owne Stories auouch the contrarie.

Phi.

* 2.900Which of our Stories?

Theo.

Martinus Polonus, Vincentius and others. Martinus saith, Constantius recalled Liberius from banishment, be∣cause he had agreed to him and to the Arians, and placed him againe in his Seate, and so vnhappie Liberius held the Church of Peter sixe yeeres by vio∣lence: then was the persecution great in the citie, in so much that the Cler∣gie

men which were against Liberius, were Martyred: then also Eusebius a Priest suffered death, for declaring Liberius to be an heretike. And Damasus when he came to the Bishoppe of Rome next after Liberius,* 2.901 with open voyce condemned Liberius and all his acts.

Phi.

I beleeue neither Vincentius nor Martinus in this case.

Theo.

Your not beleeuing them sheweth your selfe to be partial, not their report to be false.

Phi.

Liberius surely continued not an Arri∣an.

Theo.

That he subscribed to the Arrians we proue: that he recanted his sub∣scription you can not proue.

Phi.

No doubt he did it, though it bee not written.

Theo.

So you presume, though you want all proofe for it.

Phi.

Neuer Bishoppe of Rome died an heretike.

Theo.

What did Hono∣rius,* 2.902 whom the sixt generall Councell condemned, and accursed after his death for heresie?

Phi.

That Councel is shamefully corrupted by the Grecians.

Theo.

If the Grecians copies did differ from yours, you had some reason to charge thē with corruption: but since your copies confesse the same, howe could the Greci∣ans inuade your libraries without your knowledge and raze the Recordes that lay at Rome in your own keeping, and the thing not spied?

Phi.

A name is soone thrust in.

Theo.

But whole sentences and whole leaues can not bee thrust in, without stealing away the original & laying a counterfeit in place thereof, which was easie to be discerned.* 2.903 Honorius cause is mentioned & discussed in 26 seueral places of y^e councell, & two of his epistles repeated at large, one of* 2.904 9. skore & 12. lines, the other of * 2.905 threeskore and sixteene lynes, which argue the whole councel to be forged, or these branches concerning Honorius to be as sincere as the rest.

Phi.

One Councell is soone corrupted.

Theo.

But may you reiect your owne Recordes as forged, and bring neither reason, suspition, nor probabilitie, when, by whom or how this was or could bee done? Giue vs leaue to doe the like to the rest of your Romish Records where good cause leadeth vs, and see what wil become of your Religion.* 2.906

Phi.

In deede this one we thinke to be forged.

Theo.

A generall Councell repeating the matter which you sticke at more than twentie times, and lying safe in your owne custodie, you suspect to bee forged and vpon no ground but onely because it condemneth a Bishoppe of Rome for an heretike, and yet you can not denie that but you must denie more. Leo the second * 2.907 accursed Honorius his predecessour for the same here∣sie. The seconde Councell of Nice which you greatly reuerence and call the seuenth generall Councell,* 2.908 confesseth Honorius was condemned in the sixt generall Councell, and * 2.909 themselues reiect him by name for an heretike, where∣to the Legates of Adrian then Bishoppe of Rome there present consented and subscribed. Adrian the seconde in a Councell at Rome confessed that Honorius once Bishoppe of Rome was accused of heresie and condemned af∣ter his death by the consent of the Romane See; and this his confession was read and allowed in the eight generall Councell of Constantinople.* 2.910 If al these be forged, & that at Rome, where your selues were the keepers, how good cause haue we to suspect the rest of your euidēce, which tend chiefly to vphold y^e Popes pride & to encrease his gaine, & agree neither with thēselues, nor with y^e state of

those times wherein they should be written, nor with the best and approued sto∣ries of the Church.

Phi.

* 2.911Synce three generall Councels recken Honorius as condemned of he∣resie, and specially the Decretall of Leo the second, which the Bishoppes of Rome woulde soone haue disclaimed, if it had beene suspected, I dare not say that all these are forged, for feare lest I ouerthrowe the credite of all Ro∣mane Recordes: and therefore I thinke rather the Councell that first con∣demned him, mistooke his meaning, or that the letters which they sawe, were written in his name by some euill willers of his, both which cases are possible.

Theo.

You mend this gappe, and make a bigger. You saue the Romane Libraries from corrupt Recordes, and vpbrayde a generall councel with rash iudgement, and lacke of vnderstanding; for if they condemned Honorius not onely their brother, but also their better as you take him, and the head of the Church for an heretike, and that after his death, and either conceiued not the sense of his woordes, or tooke not heede to the seale and subscription of his let∣ters, that those were Authentike, they deseru••d not to bee counted Christians, much lesse to goe for a lawfull and generall Councell: And the Bishoppes of Rome that came after and confirmed the same, when they might and should haue reprooued the Councell of indiscretion or malice, and defended the inno∣cencie of Honorius, were not successours to him but conspiratours against him: and so none of your shiftes are either sound or likely.

* 2.912Howsoeuer you wrangle with the fact, yet this is euident and without con∣tradiction, that three generall Councels, eche after other were of opinion the Pope might liue and die an heritike, and Agatho, Leo, Adrian the first and second, all Bishoppes of Rome confessed thus much by their Decretals, and yeelded thereto by their subscriptions: Which if you graunt, condemne or ac∣quite Honorius of heresie at your pleasures. Wee haue the full consent of the East and West Churches that the Bishoppe of Rome may erre, which you at this present so stifly deny.

Phi.

* 2.913If one did erre, the number is not so great.

Theo.

If one did, o∣thers may, yet I haue named three that were condemned for heresie and A∣postasie, Marcellinus, Liberius, Honorius: and moe I might that erred in like manner, as Vigilius, Anastatius, Celestinus and others: but I see you are determined to beleeue none that make against you in this point: and there∣fore I were as good saue my labour as spend longer time with one that is past all sense.

Phi.

If you prooue they erred, I will not defende them.

Theo.

* 2.914But in reporting their sayings and doings, you giue credite to none, bee they neuer so indifferent and auncient.

Phi.

Wee credite them, if a grea∣ter number of writers doe not contradict them.

Theo.

If certaine late fauourers of the Pope without trueth or shame doe gainesay the Stories that went before them, thinke you the partiall and corrupt writinges of such men woorthie to bee taken against others that bee both elder and syncerer?

Phi.

I euer goe with antiquitie and vniuersalitie.

Theo.

But when you come to the push,* 2.915 you care neither for fathers nor Councels Prouinciall nor ge∣nerall if they crosse your affections, or touch the Popes ambition. There anci∣ent writers liuing in the same time with Liberius affirme that he subscribed to the Arrians, and Sozomene that wrate within 40. yeres of the deed doing saith no lesse: you beleeue neither them nor your owne stories which with one consent followed that report, till some in our age, to make the Popes Tribunal infallible, began not only to doubt but also to deny Liberius fact. Two general Councels condemne Honorius for an heretike, and the third auou••heth him to haue been condemned not without the knowledge of his successours, the bishops of Rome that came after him. You regard neither Popes nor Synods, where they say that Honorius erred; in other things where you thinke they make with you, they shall be sacred and auncient fathers & Councels, as though you were not bound to yeeld vnto trueth, but that onely were trueth which liked you.

Phi.

Liberius was forced and Honorius deceiued with a likelyhood of trueth; this is all you can get of these sacred and ancient fathers and Councels,

Theo.

We need no more. No man falleth from the faith but he is either forced or deceiued; and yet this wee get besides, which we most esteeme, that these fa∣thers and Councels were of opinion, and saw by experience the Bishop of Rome did and might erre: Yeeld to this, and wee remit you the rest.

Phi.

Not till I see what else you will bring. You talke of Vigilius and Anastasius, but I thinke more than you can proue.

Theo.

Of Vigillius,* 2.916 that hee secretly fauored such as were condemned here∣tikes, & refused the faith established in the great councel of Chalcedon, Libera∣tus who liued in y^e same time with him, beareth manifest record.* 2.917 Vigilius implens promissionē suam quam Aug••stae fecerat, talē scripsit epistolam &c. Eam fidē quam tenetis, & tenuiss•• & tenere significo. Oportet vt haec quae scribo vobis nullus agnoscat, sed magis tanquam suspectum hic me ante alios sapientia vestra existimet habere, quo facilius possum haec, quae caepi, operari & perficere. Haec Vigilius scribens ad haereticos occulte permansit sedens. Vigilius fulfilling his promise which he had made to the Empresse (which was to write to Seuerus and Anthemius, & by his letters to cōfirme their faith) wrate this epistle &c. I signifie to you that I haue held and doe hold the very same faith which you also doe hold. No man must know that I write these things vnto you, but your wisdome must thinke it best, to haue me in suspition before all others, that I may with more ease worke and bring that to passe which I haue begunne. This Vigilius wrate priuily to heretikes, and continued Bishop (of Rome).

Phi.

The Pontificall faith that he promised so to doe:* 2.918 but after when it was exacted at his hands, he answered: Absit hoc a me domina Augusta. Prius locu∣tus sum male & incipienter, modó autem nullo modo tibi consentio vt reuocem hominē haereticum & anathematizatum. Be this farre from me Lady and Empresse. I spake at first not well and like a foole. I can now by no meanes consent to restore a man that is an heretike and condemned.

Theo.

Your Pontificall in

this place would faine couer Vigilius leudnes with some remorse of conscience. He falsely accused Syluerius his predecessour, & not only thrust him frō his seat but also famished him in exile.* 2.919 He promised the Empresse to restore Anthemius & others that were condemned and deposed, & gaue it vnder his hand. He slue his Notarie & likewise his Nephew. The people cast stones at him and cursed him whē he was sent for to the Emperour. Al this your Pontifical confesseth of him. Now to leaue some good thing in him it maketh him repent the wicked promise which he gaue the Empresse for ioyning with those heretikes, but Liberatus denieth that, and so doth Syluerius his predecessour in his decretall Epistle or rather excommunication against him, where he chargeth him not only with murder, ambition, and Symonie, but also with heresie.* 2.920 Nouum scelus erroris in Apostolica Sede rursus niteris inducere. Thou labourest to bring into the A∣postolike See a new wickednesse of error. Whether now think you reason we beleeue your Pontificall, a collection of Popes liues wee know not by whome, or Liberatus a writer of that time alleaging his owne epistle, & his predecessor Syluerius affirming the same?

Phi.

* 2.921It seemeth by his punishment that hee neuer consented to accomplish the Emperours desire. For the Prince very cruelly caused him to be drawen by the neck round about the Citie of Constantinople and cast into prison where hee was fed with bread and water.

Theo.

Hee well deserued that and more: & it may bee the Empresse when shee saw he would not stand to his word, did help forward the matter, and assisted the Romanes in their complaint to the Emperour against him, and by that meanes hee came to suffer his desertes; but this is no reason to refell that which Liberatus and Syluerius report of him.

Phi.

His heresie was not open but secret, and therefore it hurt himselfe and not others.

Theo.

Hee concealed his heresie till hee sawe oportunitie. This doth not diminish but rather aggrauate his error. For our question is not whether the Pope may infect others, but whether he himself may erre in faith; so did Vigilius, though for feare to loose his Popedome he dissembled a season that he might doe the more mischiefe.

* 2.922And so did Anastasius the second, whom many of the Clergie forsooke, be∣cause he did communicate with heretikes and went about priuily to restore Acatius alreadie condemned by some of his predecessors for heresie.

Phi.

This was a fault, but no error.

Theo.

He that ioyneth with an heretik, as if he were a Catholike, doth hee not account heresie for trueth? And call you that no error? Your own glose giuing y^e cause why his clergie might forsake him saith, Incide∣rat in haere sim iam damnatā,* 2.923 he was fallen into an heresie alreadie condēned.

Phi.

The booke saith, Voluit, & non potuit, he would haue doone it, but he could not. For he was stroken by the hand of God as Arius was, and so ne∣uer brought it to passe.

Theo.

Then may the Bishop of Rome die an heretike as Arius did, and the likenesse of their plagues noteth the lothsomnes of both their errors.

Phi.

But the See of Rome did not erre al this while.

Theo.

That is most

true. The See neuer erreth,* 2.924 it is made of tymber or metall, which is voyde of sense and free from error: but the men haue erred that were the lawfull occupi∣ers of that See.

Phi.

You iest at your speach, but you shall find it true, that the See of Rome neuer erred.

Theo.

I may iest at it wel enough, except you giue vs some better vnderstanding what you meane by the See of Rome.

Phi.

I meane the Pope neuer erred.

Theo.

Of whom spake wee all this while but of the men that were Popes? And they haue erred, as I haue shewed.

Phi.

They did erre but not as Popes.

Theo.

No more doth any Christian man or woman. They erre not as Christians, but as they forsake the faith, and in that point are not christians, or at least shrinke from the christian faith so farre forth as they be entangled with error. These be childish toyes, you were best take su∣rer handfast, you may chaunce else to marre all.

Phi.

Let me first heare what you can say, and I will answere it all with a word.

Theo.

That were quick woorke, but I reade it your best way first to disburden your selfe of these examples, and after you shall sooner passe through the rest.

Phi.

Liberius in persecution might yeeld;* 2.925 Marcellinus for feare might commit Idolatrie; Honorius might fall to heresie, and more then all this, some Iudas might creepe into the office, and yet all this without preiudice of the office and Seate.

Theo.

Uery well. If they might fall to heresie and idolatrie, Ergo others may doe the like.

Phi.

They may, but without preiudice to the office and Seate.

Theo.

Who doubteth that?* 2.926 The office and scepter of Princes is not the worse though some be Tyrants: The art and vse of Phisike is not dispraised though some doe kill and not recouer their Pacients: The vices and ouersights of men are incident to all degrees, States and professions, and yet no man so madde to mislike the one for the other. Why then shoulde the loose life or false doctrine of some Bi∣shops preiudice others either in the same office with them, or in the same place before and after them, since the things bee needefull, though the men be sin••ull? The chaire is not the worse though the Bishoppe may erre: But you stande in contention with vs that the Bishoppe of Rome can not erre: and nowe you say hee may erre without preiudice to his office and Seate: which wee graunt. For his charge to teach, and power to bind common to him with all Bishoppes, is not abolished nor abated, though some did or hereafter should abuse it.

In the meane time this shaketh the Popes Tribunall which you giue him ouer the whole Church.* 2.927 For if he may erre in fayth, which you confesse, then can he not be supreme iudge of all others in matters of fayth: lest the whole church should bee bound to forsake her faith, which shee may not, vppon one erroneous iudgement of his, which is possible, and easte to happen.

Phi.

Not possible.* 2.928 Popes may erre personally but not iudicially, that is, they may erre in person, vnderstanding, priuate doctrine or writings, but they neither can, nor euer shall iudicially conclude or giue definitiue sentence for falshoode or heresie a∣gainst the Catholike faith, in their Consistories, Courts, Councels, Decrees, Delibera∣tions or consultations kept for decision and determination of such controuersies, douts or

questions of fayth as shall bee proposed vnto them, because Christes prayer and promise protecteth them therein for confirmation of their brethren.

Theo.

What prayer or promise of Christ is it that you speake of?

Phi.

I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not.

Theo.

Are you in your fiue wittes to make such constructi∣ons of Christes wordes?

Phi.

Why so?

Theo.

Where lyeth faith? in a mans heart, mouth or hands?

Phi.

What a wise question that is; aske it not for very shame.

Theo.

Nay answere it with shame enough. Or if you will not, S. Paul will:* 2.929 Corde creditur, we beleeue with the heart, sayth he, and confesse with the mouth. So that if faith be not in our lippes, much lesse in our fingers.

Phi.

Who euer doubted of that?

Theo.

Then is there no doubt but your deprauing the prayer and promise of Christ will soone bee perceiued of al men. For if Christ prayed for Peter, and as you racke it for his successours,* 2.930 that their fayth shoulde not fayle: Ergo, the true faith of Christ must alwayes be kept in their hearts, though their mouthes faile as Peters did when hee denyed his master with his lippes, whom in hart he knewe to bee the sonne of the liuing God. Now you turne it cleane contrarie. You graunt the Popes heart may fall from faith to infidelitie and heresie, but his mouth you de∣fend shal be kept from pronouncing it, as if Christ had prayed not for Peters hart where his faith remained, but for Peters mouth which failed thrise before the cocke crewe, notwithstanding his masters prayer and promise that very night.

* 2.931This is absurd enough, and yet the rest is more absurd when you graunt the Pope may erre in person, that is both with heart and mouth: but if hee once get on his robes and ascend his Tribunall, he can not erre. As if Christ had prayed not for the men but for the walles, neither for the Persons but for the Places, which is direct against y^e words of our sauiour. For he sayth not, I haue prayed for thy Tribunals, Courtes, and Consistories, that they shall not erre, but I haue prayed for thee, noting his person, that thy faith, that is the perswa∣sion of thine heart beleeuing and trusting in me, shall not vtterly faile, but the sparkles of my grace remaining in thee shall renue thee by repentance. Christ prayed for the person & not for the place. How then can you say that the Person may erre,* 2.932 but not the place?

Phi.

The Person shall bee stroken with feare as was Vigilius, or pre∣uented by death as was Anastasius, that hee shall not be able to accomplish his wicked intent in open place.

Theo.

Call you that the prayer of Christ for the Popes fayth, or the plague of God vpon him for his infidelitie?

Phi.

Cal it what you will. God will not suffer him to giue definitiue sentence for heresie against the faith.

Theo.

Shew vs the warrant that God will not suffer it, and wee are answered.

Phi.

The promise of our sauiour that Peters faith should not fa••le.

Theo.

Then this you make to be the effect of Christes woordes,* 2.933 I haue prayed for thee that thy fayth shall not fayle, that is, notwithstanding my prayer for thee, thy successours may be heretikes, idolaters, Apostataes and rū∣negates from me, but I wil strike them with feare or peruert them with death, that they shall not in open Court by definitiue sentence iniect ••y Church. Are

you not religious interpreters of the Scriptures, when you delude them and interlace them with such commentaries?

Phi.

Caiphas by priuilege of his office prophesied right of Christ,* 2.934 though according to his own knowledge and faith he knew not Christ. And why may not the Pope haue the like priuilege?

Theo.

Balaams Asse reproued the madnes of his master: Why should not the Popes Asse haue the like priuilege?

Phi.

You scoffe at our reasons, you refell them not.

Theo.

They neede no better refuta∣tion. For out of a particular fact,* 2.935 that is rare and vncertaine, you conclude a generall and constant Rule. God vsed the mouth of Caiphas the high Priest without his meaning to declare the necessitie and vtilitie of Christes death. Hence you would inferre that no high Priest could erre in iudgement, and con∣sequently not the Pope as being belike successour to Caiphas that put Christ to death. By the same cūning you may conclude, God vsed Balaams mouth against Balaams will, to blesse Israel, therefore no false Prophet can haue a lying spi∣rit in his mouth: Or God stirred vp the spirit of Daniel when he was a very child to cōuince the two iudges of their vnrighteous proceeding against Susan∣na; therefore children cannot want the spirit of direction in iudgement: Or Pi∣lats wife perceaued by her dreames that Christ was innocent, therefore weo∣mens dreames are alwayes true.

Phi.

These illations be very foolish.

Theo.

Yours is scant so good. For in your example,* 2.936 God ouerruled the hie-Priests mouth in such sort that in giuing the Iewes wicked and haynous counsel to kill the sonne of God, his words receaued a double sense. One cruel & bloudie perswading them to murder the author of that new doctrine for feare least the Romanes should take it as an occasion to destroy the whole nation; which was Caiphas mind and purpose: The other confessing that his death should saue the people from destruction; which declareth the vertue and force of his Passion. Which he neither ment, nor knew; but God so tempered his tongue that in writing his furious malice against Christ, his wordes stood indifferent for both constructions. Thus S. Cyril largely sheweth,* 2.937 In the proposition of Caiphas there is contained a double sense, one which Caiphas himselfe ment, that it was expedient Christ should die by the hands of the Iewes, lest the whole Nation should bee destroyed by the Romanes: This was a false and wicked meaning, comming from the lewd intention of Caiphas. An other sense of the same proposition was intended by the holy Ghost, that it was needfull that only Christ should die, for the saluation of the whole world. This Caiphas neither vnderstood nor ment, yet his wordes were such as might fitly serue this sense of the holy Ghost.* 2.938 For Caiphas himself as cruel∣ler, readier to wickednes, and bloodier than the rest, encourageth others staggering at it, by saying, you perceaue nothing, neither vnderstād you that it is expediēt the life of one man should be neglected for the whole coūtrie.* 2.939

Phi.

He spake this by the holy Ghost.

Theo.

The diuell possessed his hart, but the power of God restrained and ordered his speach.

Phi.

Had he not the Spirit of Prophesie?

Theo.

No more than Saul the bloudsucker had when

he praied for Dauid whom hee sought to kill:* 2.940 than Iudas the traytor had, when he iustified his master and hanged himselfe: yea than the Dyuell had, when hee confessed and intreated the Sonne of God not to torment him before his time.

Phi.

* 2.941Why then doth S. Iohn giue this note of him that he was hie Priest for that yere?

Theo.

S. Iohn noteth this that it pleased God so to temper the hie Priests wordes, that where hee spake to hasten the death of our Sauiour, his wordes sounded, that the people should vtterly perish without the death of Christ, which was most true, but not his meaning.

Phi.

His tongue spake trueth, though his hart did erre.

Theo.

Satan poisoned his hart, but GOD bridled his mouth.

Phi.

Can not God doe the like to the Bishop of Rome?

Theo.

No doubt he can: but you must proue that he will.

Phi.

If he did so to Caiphas, much more will hee do it to the head of his Church.* 2.942

Theo.

How hangeth this geare together? Hee did once so to Caiphas, ergo hee will always doe the like, where you list to haue it.

Phi.

Not where we list, but where he will.

Theo.

That helpeth you litle. God can do the like where & whē he wil. What is that to the Bishop of Rome? We doubt not of Gods power; but smile at your folly which conclude this to be ordinarie in the Pope, which was extraordinarie in Caiphas.

Phi.

It was ordi∣narie in Caiphas by reason of his office, and so saith S. Iohn.

The.

S. Iohn doth not say it was ordinarie either in al hie priests, or in Caiphas; for Caiphas him∣self the very same yere,* 2.943 as S. Matt. witnesseth, iudicially pronounced our Sa∣uiour to be a blasphemer, which I hope you will not say came from the direc∣tion of the holy Ghost. The hie Priest therefore did erre, and that most hai∣nously in iudgement: and if this be al your hold, the Pope may doe the like.

Phi.

What may be, is hard to determine: But this we know, the Pope did neuer yet erre sitting in his Tribunal to giue iudgement.

Theo.

As though the place and not the Pope had assurance of trueth annexed vnto it? What ho∣lines hath the Consistorie to safegard the iudge from error? The promise of Christ was made to the person and not to the place.

Phi.

To the person but sitting in iudgement.

Theo.

Did Peter sitte in iudgement at that time when he denied his master?* 2.944

Phi.

Wee say not so.

Theo

But that night was the promise made vnto him, and that night performed in him, when Peter poore man stoode warming himselfe amongst the manye, and durst not answer the first interrogatorie that a silly wenche proposed to him. And therefore Christ neuer spake of your Courtes nor Consistories: but promised Peter to pardon his fault and to strengthen his faith, lest hee should perseuere in that his Apostasie.

Phi.

Had we no warrant for the Bishop of Rome that his faith shall not faile, yet experience proueth this which we say to be true: that he neuer erred iudicially, that is sitting in his Consistorie.

Theo.

What need we care where he sate so long as we bee sure he did erre? What wrangling is this to aske for the place where; and the time when the Pope spake the wordes? Hee that may erre at home, may likewise erre abroade; If the Pope bee an heretike

in his chamber, hee can be no Catholike in his Consistorie.

Phi.

Definitiue sentence he neuer gaue any against the faith.

Theo.

What are his decretals but definitiue sentences? And in those he hath erred.* 2.945

Phi.

Ne∣uer.

Theo.

The Decretal of Clemens which I before alleaged is altogether erronious. They were two Decretall Epistles, for the which Honorius was condemned. The decretal of Vigilius, which Liberatus remembreth, is expres∣ly against the faith. Celestinus erred iudicially as your owne friendes confesse, but you haue pared that Decretall as you haue done many others, and left out the later part, lest we should spie the fault.* 2.946

Phi.

Who told you so?

Theo.

They that had no cause to belie you.

Alfonsus a great Patrone of your side sayth,* 2.947 It is a thing manifest to al men that Pope Celestinus erred touching the mariage of the faithful when either part falleth into heresie. Neither was this error of Celestinus such as ought to be imputed only to negligence, so that we may say he erred as a priuate per∣son, and not as Pope, because this decision of Celestinus was in the auncient Decratals which I my selfe haue seene and read.* 2.948 Innocentius the third when he decided the case, confessed that one of his predecessours had decreed other∣wise, which saith the gloze was Celestinus: whose resolution was in the olde De∣cretals and it was euil that Celestinus sayd.

Alexander the 3. in a matter of great importance said,* 2.949 Quamuis aliter a qui∣busdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum, though some of our pre∣decessours haue heretofore otherwise giuen iudgement.

Phi.

These were matters of mariage, and not of faith.

Theo.

As though the seuering of those, whom God hath ioyned, did not touch the faith; and so did some of these Popes and that iudicially, by their contrarie Decrees.

Againe Nicolas the fourth sayth in his Decretal that To renounce the pro∣prietie of all thinges not in special only but in common also is meritorious and holy, which Christ taught by word and confirmed by example, and the first foūders of the militant church deriued to others by the paterne of their doctrine & life. Iohn the 22. sayth it is hereticall to affirme that Christ & his Apostles had nothing in speciall nor in common.

Phi.

The next extrauagant reconcileth them both.

Theo.

The Pope labou∣reth for life to shift off the matter, & at last commeth with a very iest, De sola ab∣dicatione proprietatis, non iuris alterius in praefata declaratione mentio habetur. In the said declaration (of Pope Nicolas) there is mention made of renouncing the proprietie only but none other right. And so Ius aliud a proprietate habuisse potuerunt; they might haue some other right besides the proprietie.

Phi.

So they might.

Theo.

As if Christ and his Apostles had been cunning in the ciuill Lawes to renounce the proprietie for a fashion, and yet to reserue an interest in those thinges which they seemed to renounce, so that they might both keepe and vse them at their willes. This exposition that Christ taught men to re∣nounce the proprietie of their goods and reserue the vse, is as false and hereticall as the former assertion of Pope Nicolas, that Christ and his

Apostles renounced their right in al earthly things both in special and common,* 2.950 and taught others to do the like. Your gloze tumbleth a long while in the myre after he hath confessed the one to be* 2.951 expresly contrarie to the other, & at length submitteth himselfe to the Church of Rome though hee see not howe to loose the knot.

* 2.952Nicolaus the second in a Councel of 114. Bishoppes appointed Berengari∣us to confesse that The very body of Christ is in trueth and sensually broken and brused in pieces with the teeth of the faithful; & this confession the Pope receiued, allowed and sent to the Bishoppes of Italie, Germanie and Fraunce as catholike,* 2.953 which your owne gloze saith is a greater heresie than euer Beren∣garius held.

Phi.

Hee saith it is, vnlesse you vnderstand it soberly.

Lheo.

And that sober vnderstanding hee graunteth must bee cleane against the text.* 2.954 For where the text affirmeth this of y^• very body of Christ, & excludeth the outward sacrament as the words declare, your gloze sayth that vnlesse you vnderstand this of the outward formes of bread and wine and not of the bodie of Christ, it is a greater heresie than that of Berengarius; and so is it in deede a very palpable & a brutish error, and can no way bee salued, except you take the woords cleane contrarie to themselues, which conuinceth the Pope and his whole Councell of a monsterous error.

Phi.

This was Berengarius fault in his confession, but not the Popes iudge∣ment or resolution.

Theo.

You would faine wind out if the text it selfe did not hold you fast;* 2.955 but there it is sayde that Pope Nicolas and the Synode deliuered this faith and assured it to be Apostolike and Euangelike. And therefore if Be∣rengarius erred in subscribing this fourme of confession, the Pope & his Coun∣cell erred in prescribing the same.

Phi.

You take nice aduantages of words, which men may soone misse.

Theo.

The heresie of Arius differed but one letter from the truth, and yet his doctrine wa•• very blasphemous. One word may containe a whole kingdome of impietie.

Phi.

* 2.956The best is, you find not many such ouersightes in the Popes decrees.

Theo.

You print and publish none but such as you thinke your selues able to defend, suppressing the rest that might bee chalenged, and then you aske vs howe wee prooue that euer the Bishoppe of Rome gaue definitiue sentence against the fayth, in open Court or Councel; which refuge of yours is very ridi∣culous. For what hath Christes prayer for Peter to doe with definitiue senten∣ces and open Consistories? If the Pope may beleeue, defende and preach an er∣ror, what neede wee care whether his sentence bee conclusiue, or perswasiue, definitiue or interlocutorie? And so for the place what skilleth it where and in whose presence the words be written or spoken if they be certainely his?

And where you thinke it maketh much for the Bishoppe of Rome, that wee can not proue these errors of Popes to haue beene definitiuely pronounced in their publike Consistories, if that were true, as it is not, you shew your selues to be but wranglers. For wee can name an infinite number of Bishoppes and Churches, that neuer erred in this speciall & precise maner which you propose.

Howe prooue you that euer the Bishops of Yorke or Durham in England,* 2.957 of Poycters or Lions in Fraunce, of Valeria or Carduba in Spaine, of Rauennas or Rhegium in Italie, of Corinth or Athens in Greece, of Miletus or Sardis in Asia, gaue definitiue sentence against the faith in their publike consistories? A thousande others I coulde obiect on whom that thing shall neuer bee fastened, which you crake can not be proued by the Bishop of Rome. Heretikes haue been euer conuinced by their confessions & writings, not by their definitiue senten∣ces, or iudiciall proceedings. And therefore if Popes haue erred in writing and teaching, they were as right heretikes as euer were Arius, Sabellius, Nestori∣us, Eutiches and such like which neuer gaue definitiue sentēce against the faith in Courts and Consistories, but onely taught or wrate against the truth.

Phi.

Though one or two Bishops of Rome were deceiued, they erred not so often there as in other places.

Theo.

Set Constantinople aside, and in no one See did the bishops erre oftener than in Rome, but this is not our marke. If one or two haue erred, why may not others?* 2.958 Yea though none of them had erred heretofore, yet that which is possible may happen hereafter, and so long they can be no absolute iudges of trueth.

Phi.

If they might erre, they were no fit iudges of faith; but because their Tribunall is the highest, that is in the Church, they must therfore be free from error.

Theo.

You euer proue that which we doubt of, by y^• which is more doubtful. We denie the Popes Tribunal to bee the highest, that is in the church. Prouinciall and generall Councels by the Canons are a∣boue him. And in matters of faith the highest Court that is in earth may misse:* 2.959 & therfore no man is bound to Pastor, Prelate or councel farther than their de∣crees be coherēt & agreeable with the faith. For against God we owe neither au∣dience nor obedience vnto the perswasions or precepts of any men.

Phi.

No question we must as well in faith as in manners obey rather God than man; and therefore if the iudgements of bishops and conclusions of Coun∣cels might be repugnant to the word of God, duetie bindeth vs to preferre the preceptes of God before the pleasures of men; but it is not possible that God should leaue his Church without direction, and directed shee can not bee but by iudgement, and in giuing iudgement the head must be highest and so the soun∣dest, left that peruert the rest, and endanger the whole bodie.

Theo.

The church of Christ neuer was nor euer shall bee without direction: but that direction proceedeth from the word and spirit of Christ,* 2.960 not from the courts and Consi∣stories of Popes. Assemblees of learned Bishoppes voyd of pride and strife, are good helpes to trie the faith and moderate the discipline of the Church, and the greater, the better: yet the direction of Gods holy Spirite, and infallible deter∣mination of trueth is not annexed to any certaine places, Persons or numbers; neither can you of a promise which is common to all, establish a priuate Tribu∣nall for one man from the which the spirit of trueth shal not depart, as you pro∣fesse of the Popes Consistorie.

Phi.

If he may erre how can he be iudge of al others?

Theo.

You say wel: & since by the consent and confession of your own church foureteene hundred yeres

after Christ he may erre, we conclude he can not bee supreme iudge of faith; nor Soueraigne directer of Princes in those cases.

Phi.

* 2.961Was our whole Church of that opinion so lately?

Theo.

Shew euer any learned man of your side, that sayde or helde otherwise.

Phi.

Nay shewe you they held so.

Theo.

I haue already shewed so much.

Phi.

You haue na∣med some priuate men that wrate so.

Theo.

The strongest pillours of your Church.

Phi.

But you say this opinion was generall.

Theo.

If you con∣sider how earnestly and openly this was asserted by the best, and neuer contra∣dicted by any, no not by those that tooke vpon them to bee the chiefe Proctours and Patrones for the Pope, your selfe will say it was generall, and confessed on all sides.

* 2.962Your owne Decrees that will not haue the Pope reprooued for any fault, adde this exception, Nisi deprehendatur a fide deuius, vnlesse hee bee founde to swarue from the fayth. The Bishoppes of Fraunce and Germanie ga∣thered at Brixia and Mogunce against Gregorie the seuenth,* 2.963 condemned him as, The auncient disciple of the heretike Berengarius, & a vera fide exorbitan∣tem, and swaruing from the true fayth. His owne Cardinals and Bishoppes that were at Rome made this profession against him.* 2.964 Ad destruendas haereses nouiter ab Hildebrando inuentas consedimus. We assembled to destroy the here∣sies lately deuised by (Pope) Hildebrand. And in special wordes, Hoc est decre∣tum Hildebrandi in quo a Doctrina & fide Catholica aberrauit. This is Hildebrands decree, in which hee erred from the Catholike doctrine and fayth.

Robert Grosseteste Bishoppe of Lincolne reuerenced of your Church for a Saint, lying on his death proued the Pope not onely might bee, but was an he∣retike by sundry reasons, and by the very definition of heresie, and for the possibi∣litie of the matter alleageth the Popes owne testimonie.* 2.965 Item dicit Decretalis quod super tali vitio, videlicet haeresi, potest & debet Papa accusari. The Decretall sayth that for heresie the Pope may and ought to be accused.

* 2.966But what speake I of one Bishop? Six hundred Prelates, an hundred foure and twentie Diuines, and almost three hundred Lawyers, with the whole Colledge of Cardinals in your generall Councell of Pisa deposed two Popes, Gregorie the twelfth and Benedict the thirteenth, as * 2.967 schismatikes and here∣tikes. Your Councell of Constance, where as you say were * 2.968 4. Patriarkes, 29. Cardinals, 47. Archbishoppes, 270. Bishops, 564. Abbats and Doctours, in all aboue nine hundred deposed the same Benedict, (persisting in his Popedom notwithstanding the former sentence) as being* 2.969 schismaticum & haereticum, ac a fide deuium, & articuli fidei Vnam sanctam Catholicam Ecclesiam, violatorem perti∣nacem, notorium & manifestum; a schismatike and an heretike, swaruing from the faith, and a wilfull, notorious & manifest subuerter of the Article of (our) faith, one holy Catholike Church.* 2.970 And in the same Councel it was obiected to Iohn the 23. Quod dictus Iohannes Papa 23. saepe & saepius coram diuersis Prelatis & alijs honestis & probis viris, pertinaciter Diabolo suadente, dixit, asseruit, dogmati∣zauit & astruxit, vitam eternam non esse, quin imo dixit & pertinaciter credidit

animam hominis cum corpore humano mori & extingui ad instar animalium bruto∣rum, dixít que mortuum semel, esse in nouissimo die minimè resurrecturum, contra articulum de resurrectione mortuorum. That often and very often before di∣uers Prelates and other honest and approoued men, hee sayd, auouched, vt∣tered as his iudgement & egerly defended, that there is no life euerlasting: yea moreouer hee sayde and resolutely beleeued that the soule of man dieth and perisheth with the bodie after the maner of other beasts, and that hee which was once dead should not rise in the last day; contrarie to the article of the resurrection of the dead.

Your generall councell of Basil, which Germanie, Fraunce, Englande, the Dukedome of Millan and many other Countries so greatly esteemed gaue the like iudgement not yet seuen skore & seuen yeres agoe against Eugenius the 4. and iudicially pronounced him to bee,* 2.971 schismaticum, a fide deuium pertinacem hae∣reticum, a schismatike, erring from the fayth, and a stubburne heretike▪ Last∣ly your diuines of Paris but last day resolued that Peter erred in faith when Paul reprooued him; and if Peter did, there can bee no question but his suc∣cessours may, since they claime from him, and not before him. If this bee not the generall consent of your owne Church, I knowe not what is: If it bee, then by the full and cleare confession of your selues for 1400. yeeres the Pope might stray from the faith and become an heretike.

Phi.

There is not one of your examples but may be replied to.

Theo.

Graunt they might, yet this is most sure which I conclude, that they were al of this opinion, the Pope coulde erre.

Phi.

What if that opinion were not true?

Theo.

That must you proue. It is enough for mee to shewe that not onely the church of Christ in former ages, but your owne Church euen vntil our age, held this opinion of Popes that they could erre. What reason you haue, or can haue to impugne their opinion, let the world iudge. We thinke you within the com∣passe of Alfonsus censure; if ye be not worse.

Phi.

What if wee should graunt the Pope may erre, as al men may?* 2.972 That doeth not diminish his power.

Theo.

A iudge must haue two thinges before hee bee competent: namely skill to discerne, that hee misse not the trueth; and power to commaund, that his iudgement may take place. If he want either, hee is no fit iudge.

Phi.

You say right, and both these the Pope hath in most ample maner.

Theo.

He hath neither.* 2.973

Erre he may:* 2.974 and therefore no man is bound to his iudgement farther than it standeth with the word of truth, and so farre the greatest Princes in the world are bound to the meanest man that God doth send. For God is truth, & they that resist the truth, resist God; and the end of them al that resist, is damnation, which Princes shal not auoyde, vnlesse they submit themselues to the hearing, embra∣cing and obeying of the truth.

And as hee may erre, so hath hee no power to commaund Princes or others,* 2.975 but only to propose the commandements of God vnto them, as euery Bishop must & may by vertue of his vocation. Farther authority, by violence to compel,

or by corporal and external meanes to punish, no Prelate, nor Pope hath by the lawe of God, since that belongeth to the sworde which the Prince and not the Priest beareth in Gods behalfe to force refusers, and chasti••e malefactours, as I before at large haue proued. And so by consequent Princes are neither bound to the Popes hest for direction, nor in daunger of the Popes court for correcti∣on; but that they may by the aduise and instruction of such as bee learned and godly pastors about them, vse their swords for the receiuing & setling of trueth, and perfect establishing of Christs wil & testament, within their owne realmes, without expect••ng or regarding what the bishops of Rome and his adherentes like or allow.

Phi.

But all this while you resolue not, who shall be iudge which is the true will and Testament of Christ.

Theo.

* 2.976Let him that maketh the claime, vnder∣take the proofe. We find no place nor person to whom the sonne of God hath re∣ferred vs for the right vnderstanding of his wil but only to himselfe.

Phi.

You bind the people to followe the Prince; which of all others is the worst way to come by truth.

Theo.

We bind no man to prince, nor Pope for matters of faith. Only we say subiects must endure their princes with patience,* 2.977 when they com∣mand for error, & obey them with diligence when they maintaine the truth. Far∣ther or other seruitude in causes of conscience wee lay on no man: and that bur∣den the church of Christ neuer refused neither vnder heretikes, Apostataes nor infidels; til the Pope growing great by the ruine of the Empire and encreasing as fast in pride as he did in wealth, would needs giue the aduenture to rule king∣domes & depose Princes though by Gods lawe hee haue no more power nor iu∣risdiction ouer them than any other Bishop hath: which is so farre from that he claimeth and vsurpeth, that he, as well as other Bishops, should be subiect to the sword, and obedient to the lawes of the Romane Emperour: and so was hee as I haue plainely shewed, to the time that forsaking the Grecians and reuolting from the Germanes hee learned to chaunge Lords so often that at length, what with sedition of subiects, dissention of princes, & superstition of al sorts, the my∣sterie of iniquitie working, he made himselfe Lord and master of all.

Phi.

You bee lothe I see to yeeld the bishop of Rome any right to force prin∣ces to their dueties.

Theo.

And you be as willing he should not only take their crownes, but tread on their neckes, though hee haue no right to superuise their doings or censure their persons.

Phi.

If it be not his right we aske it not.

Theo.

If it be his right we resist it not.

Phi.

Will you admit it, if we proue it?

Theo.

Will you not claime it, except you proue it?

Phi.

We will not.

Theo.

Then say what you will or can for the confirmation of it.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Apoc. cap. 4. sect. 1.
• * 1.2

  Aug. Epist. 166.
• * 1.3

  Aug. epist. 166.
• * 1.4

  Princes com∣manding for truth must be obeied.
• * 1.5

  The Iesuites play with the name of the church.
• * 1.6

  Act. 20. The Church of God is the people of God.
• * 1.7

  The Church neuer taken in the Scrip∣tures for the Priest alone.
• * 1.8

  The Iesuites steales from the Church to Churchmē and from thē to the Pope.
• * 1.9

  By the Iesuits diuinitie the Prince shall commaund what pleaseth the Pope.
• * 1.10

  They be two distinct que∣stions who shall commād for truth, and who shall di∣rect vnto truth.
• * 1.11

  The Iesuites would make men beleeue that we teach the Princes will to be the rule of faith. Neuer man of our side affir∣med any such thing.
• * 1.12

  If the world can witnesse thus much for vs, then is this a colde cauill of the Iesuites.
• * 1.13

  Marke how the Iesuites plaie with the oth.
• * 1.14

  The right ex∣tract of the Iesuites absur∣dities. Apolog. cap. 4. Apolog. chap. 4. Apolog. cap. 4.
• * 1.15

  Their absur∣dities are no way conse∣quent to our doctrine.
• * 1.16

  This is the right suppo∣sal of their A∣pologie.
• * 1.17

  Princes be su∣preme gouer∣nours of the persons, not of the things in the church
• * 1.18

  The wordes of the othe.
• * 1.19

  The Iesuites lack neither crakes nor wordes.
• * 1.20

  Apolog. cap. 4.
• * 1.21

  The partes of the othe exa∣mined.
• * 1.22

  What is ment by Gouernour
• * 1.23

  Matth. 20. & Mark. 10. Christ by that word distin∣guisheth the minister from the magistrat.
• * 1.24

  Luk. 22.
• * 1.25

  Luk. 22.
• * 1.26

  2. Corinth. 1.
• * 1.27

  Publik gouern••ment is by correctiō and compulsion. Rom. 13. Matth. 26. 1. Tim. 3. and Tit. 1. Matth. 24. 2. Tim. 2. Bishops for∣bidden to vse violence. 2. Timoth. 3. & 4.
• * 1.28

  Bishops no Magistrates to beare the sword but on∣ly charged with cure of soules, which the sword can not touch.
• * 1.29

  Princes may commaund & punish as well bishops as o∣thers. Rom. 13. Rom. 13. Bern. ad Seno∣nensum archie∣piscopum epist. 42.
• * 1.30

  Chrysost. homil. 23. in Epist. ad Romanos.
• * 1.31

  Theo. in cap. 13 epist. ad Roma∣nos.
• * 1.32

  Theo. in cap. 13. ad Romanos. Oecumen. in E∣pist. ad Rom. Greg. Epistol. lib. 3. cap. 100.
• * 1.33

  Ibidem.
• * 1.34

  Greg. Epistol. lib. 3. cap. 103.
• * 1.35

  Luke 20.
• * 1.36

  Iohn. 19. Act. 25. Iude Epist.
• * 1.37

  Rom. 13.
• * 1.38

  The Clergie must be to the people an example of obedience to Princes.
• * 1.39

  Luke 21. Rom. 13.
• * 1.40

  He that must suffer is a sub∣iect, as well as he that must obey.

  Princes go∣uernours of all persons.
• * 1.41

  And that in causes Eccle∣siasticall as wel as in tem∣porall.
• * 1.42

  The Prince charged with both tables.
• * 1.43

  Deut. 17.
• * 1.44

  Aug. Epist. 50.
• * 1.45

  How the god∣ly kings of Iu∣dah did inter∣prete their charge.
• * 1.46

  2. Kings 23. 2. Kings 18. 2. Chro. 34. & 35.
• * 1.47

  1. Kings 2.
• * 1.48

  The same charge extē∣deth to the kings of the new testamēt.
• * 1.49

  Rom. 13.

  They be gods ministers to reuenge all e∣uill.

  Rom. 15.

  How kinges must serue the Lord and Christ his sonne.

  Psalm. 2. Aug. contra literas Petilia. lib. 2. cap. 92.
• * 1.50

  Idem contra Cresconium lib. ••. cap. 51.
• * 1.51

  The church shall suck the brestes of kinges.
• * 1.52

  The milke of princes is not temporall wealth.
• * 1.53

  August. epi. 50.
• * 1.54

  Idem contra 2. Gaudenij epist. lib. 2. cap. 11. Idem contrae Epist. Parmen. lib. 1. cap. 7. The Prince charged to punish false and corrupt religion.
• * 1.55

  Read on the place, contra epist. Parmen. lib. 1. cap. 7.
• * 1.56

  Compell them to come in; spoken to the magistrates.
• * 1.57

  Luke 14. Aug. contra 2. Gaudent. Epist. lib. 2. cap. 17. Mat. 21. 1. Corinth. 10.
• * 1.58

  2. Tim. 2. Mat. 24. Tit. 1. Mat. 20. 2. Pet. 5.
• * 1.59

  Luke 14.
• * 1.60

  August. Ep. 50.
• * 1.61

  Idem contra 2. Gaundentij epist. lib. 2. cap. 17.
• * 1.62

  Idem Epist. 48. Idem Epist. 50. Idem Epist. 48.
• * 1.63

  The Princes charge, as the scriptures do expresse it.
• * 1.64

  Al these things must bee done in euery christiā cōmō wealth; and who shall do them but the Prince?
• * 1.65

  August. contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51.
• * 1.66

  Christian Princes from the beginning haue delt in causes eccle∣siasticall.
• * 1.67

  Socrat. in prooe∣mio lib. 5.
• * 1.68

  Alciatus inco∣dicem rubric. de sacrosanct. ec∣clesijs tomo 3. pag. 198.
• * 1.69

  Constantines example. Euseb. hist. lib. 10. cap. 5.
• * 1.70

  Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 2. cap. 28. Socrat. lib. 10. cap. 34.
• * 1.71

  Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 1. cap. 37.
• * 1.72

  Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 13.
• * 1.73

  Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 22.
• * 1.74

  Ibidem. lib. 3. cap. 23.
• * 1.75

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 28.
• * 1.76

  Euseb. de vita Constan. lib. 4. cap. 42.
• * 1.77

  Athanas. Apol. 2. cap. Quum multas.

  Athanasius and his side appeale from the councel to the prince.
• * 1.78

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 34.
• * 1.79

  The Councell of Tyrus com∣manded to come before the Prince & giue account of their do∣ings.

  What Con∣stantine did in Athana∣sius his cause.
• * 1.80

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27.
• * 1.81

  The restoring of Arius.
• * 1.82

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 25.
• * 1.83

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27.

  Constantine threatneth Athanasius for not recei∣uing Arius.
• * 1.84

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 37. & 31.
• * 1.85

  Ibidem lib. 1. cap. 38.
• * 1.86

  The Prince cōmaundeth the Patriarke to receiue A∣rius to the cō∣munion.
• * 1.87

  Codi. lib. 1. tit. 1.6.2.3. Tit. 5.7.9.11.
• * 1.88

  Nouel. consti∣tut. 57.37. & 42.123. Nouel. constit. 123.131. Nouel. constit. 5. & 131.3.67.79. Nouel. constit. 123.133. Nouel. const. 6. & 123. Nouel. consti∣tutione, 123.
• * 1.89

  Nouel. constit. 123.

  The prince receaueth in∣formation & cōmaundeth correction.

  Nouell. consti∣tutione 6.

  The doctrine & discipline of the church must be the Princes chee∣fest care.

  The Bishops & Patriarks of euerie dio∣cesse cōmaū∣ded and threatned.
• * 1.90

  Nouel. Con∣stitut. 5.
• * 1.91

  Nouel. Con∣stitut. 133. The Prince soueraigne o∣uer all men, and that in things cōcer∣ning God which must be preserued from corrup∣tion by the prelates, but most of all by the Prince.
• * 1.92

  The things were then in the Princes charge which the Pope now tieth to spiri∣tual courtes.
• * 1.93

  Careli praefa. in leges Franciae. The preface of Charles to his lawes di∣recting com∣missioners to reforme the Church in his name and by vertue of his autho∣ritie.
• * 1.94

  Legū Franciae li. 1. Cap. 1.2.3.
• * 1.95

  Cap. 23.
• * 1.96

  Chap. 49.25.
• * 1.97

  Cap. 11.
• * 1.98

  Cap. 57.45.
• * 1.99

  Cap. 13.
• * 1.100

  Cap. 6.
• * 1.101

  Cap. 20.
• * 1.102

  Cap. 41.
• * 1.103

  Cap. 15.
• * 2.1

  Cap. 160. Chap. 76.
• * 2.2

  Cap. 76.
• * 2.3

  Ibidem.
• * 2.4

  Ibidem.
• * 2.5

  Ibidem.
• * 2.6

  Cap. 66.
• * 2.7

  Cap. 132.
• * 2.8

  Cap. 147.
• * 2.9

  Cap. 73.
• * 2.10

  Cap. 155.
• * 2.11

  Cap. 75.
• * 2.12

  Cap. 139.
• * 2.13

  Cap. 158.
• * 2.14

  Cap. 74.
• * 2.15

  Cap. 78.
• * 2.16

  Cap. 103.
• * 2.17

  Cap. 129. Cap. 128. Cap. 130. Cap. 131. Cap. 141. Cap. 136. Cap. 86. Cap. 67.
• * 2.18

  Cap. 79.
• * 2.19

  Cap. 81.
• * 2.20

  Cap. 110.
• * 2.21

  Cap. 71.
• * 2.22

  Cap. 62.
• * 2.23

  Cap. 163.
• * 2.24

  Cap. 116. The Prince visiteth and cōmaundeth for ecclesiasti∣cal rules and discipline.
• * 2.25

  Cap. 104.

  The Prince promiseth by the aduise of his faithful determinatiō for such ec∣clesiasticall matters as were not ex∣pressed in his chapters.
• * 2.26

  Charles by his lawes rectified al ecclesiasticall things and causes.
• * 2.27

  If any wanted he promised at his leisure to supply that defect.
• * 2.28

  His sonne & his nephew followed his steps and executed his lawes.
• * 2.29

  Legion franciae lib. 2. Cap. 1.
• * 2.30

  Cap. 2.
• * 2.31

  Cap. 3.

  The cheefe of this ministe∣rie consisteth in the princes person to whom the Bi∣shops are co∣adiutors.

  Cap. 12. Cap. 11.

  The Prince willeth all without ex∣ception to obserue his commaunde∣ments in all things as well ecclesiastical as temporal.

  Cap. 26.

  Bishops to be reformed by the Kings visitours.

  Cap. 27.

  The kings decrees tou∣ching all things and causes to be obserued of all men.
• * 2.32

  Chap. 28.
• * 2.33

  The first part of the Princes commission concerned religion and ecclesiastical order.
• * 2.34

  Legū Franciae Cap. 12.
• * 2.35

  Cap. 26.
• * 2.36

  Cap. 28.
• * 2.37

  Cap. 11.

  What lacketh this of gouer∣ning al men in al matters both ecclesi∣asticall and ciuil?
• * 2.38

  Supreme is not superiour to Christ, but not subiect to the Pope.
• * 2.39

  The superla∣tiue includeth not God, be∣cause God with man is not cōpared.
• * 2.40

  1. Pet. 2. Tit. 3. Rom. 1. Cap. & 13. Cap.
• * 2.41

  The saints on earth are sub∣iect to the Princes sword the graces of God are not.
• * 2.42

  The Church cōfessed prin∣ces to be sub∣iect to none but to God. Tertul. ad Scapulam. Idem in Apolo∣getico.

  Contra Parme∣nian. lib. 3. Ad Populū an∣tioch homil. 2.
• * 2.43

  Superiour to al, is subiect to none.

  Ad popu Ant. homil. 2.

  Nouel. const. 133.

  De obitu Theodosij. Greg. epist. li. 3. ca. 100. & cap. 103.
• * 2.44

  The word su∣preme was added to set Princes at li∣bertie from the Pope, and that is it that so much offē∣deth the Iesuites.
• * 2.45

  They must proue Princes to be subiect to the Pope: we need not proue them to be free.
• * 2.46

  The Bishops of Rome for 300. yeres en∣dured heathē Princes.
• * 2.47

  Martin. Polon. in Iulio & Liberio. Platina in Bonifacio I. Martin. Polon. in Syluer. Vigil. & Martino I. Caus. 2. quaest. 7. Cap. Nossi.

  The popes submission to the Emperour.
• * 2.48

  Ibidem Cap. Perrus. A lewd elusiō of Gratian.
• * 2.49

  The Prince superior to the Pope euē in causes ecclesiastical.
• * 2.50

  The quarel between Donatus & Cecilian.
• * 2.51

  Lib. 10. Cap. 5. Lib. 1. contra Parmenianum epist. 162.166. & alibi. This quarell was forthings & causes spiritual.
• * 2.52

  Constantine superior to Meltiades.
• * 2.53

  Euseb. lib. 10. Cap. 5. The Pope with others were authori∣zed by the Prince to heare this cause. August. epist. 162.
• * 2.54

  Epist. 166.
• * 2.55

  Constantine himself would not at first fit iudge in the cause for want of skill.
• * 2.56

  August. epist. 166.
• * 2.57

  Cellatio. 3. dici cum Donatistis
• * 2.58

  The Prince receiued an appeale from the Pope. Euseb. li. 10. Cap. 5.
• * 2.59

  August. epist. 166.
• * 2.60

  And gaue thē other Iudges after the Pope.
• * 2.61

  August. epist. 166.

  The Prince sate himselfe in iudgement both after the Pope and after the Councel.

  Idem epist. 162.

  Idem contra Crescon. lib. 3 Cap. 17.
• * 2.62

  August. epist. 166.

  The Prince made a pe∣nal law to confirme his finall decision.

  Ibidem.
• * 2.63

  The Prince in these foure facts superior to the Pope.
• * 2.64

  The Prince willeth Flaui∣anus to keepe his Church after foure Popes had repelled him for no Bishop.

  Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 23.

  Sozom. lib. 8. cap. 28.

  Arcadius de∣nied the Pope a Councel, & punished the Bishops that kept his com∣munion.

  Niceph. lib. 13. cap. 30.
• * 2.65

  Ex libro pontif. in vita Bonifa∣cij.

  Epist. Bonifacij ad Honorium Augustum.

  Rescript. Honor. ad Bonifac. tom. con. 1.
• * 2.66

  The Pope maketh a sup∣plication to the Prince for a law to pu∣nish ambition in getting the Popedom.
• * 2.67

  Leo epist. 9.

  The Pope maketh sup∣plication to the Prince for a Councell, & missed his sute.
• * 2.68

  Leo. Epist. 12. Idem Epist. 13. Idem Epist. 17.
• * 2.69

  Idem Epist. 24. The Pope with sighes & teares, sueth for a generall Councell to the Prince, & was repelled.
• * 2.70

  Leo Epist. 26. The Pope de∣sireth a gentle woman to fur∣ther his sute to the Prince.
• * 2.71

  Idem Epist. 23. The Pope praieth others to helpe him with putting vp a supplica∣tion to the Prince for a Councell.
• * 2.72

  If the Bishop of Rome might then haue commā∣ded, why did he intreate with teares, & yet misse his purpose?
• * 2.73

  Epist. 43. The Pope a fresh suter to the next Em∣perour.

  Idem Epist. 50.
• * 2.74

  Epist. 43. The Pope be∣seecheth the Prince by his royall decree, to voide the Councell of Ephesus; and to commaund the Councell of Chalcedon not to depart from the Ni∣cene faith.
• * 2.75

  Concil. Chalced. actio. 1.
• * 2.76

  Leo ••pist. 59. The Pope must obey the Princes will in subscribing to the decrees of the Coun∣cell.
• * 2.77

  Nouell. constit. 123.

  Iustiniā com∣maundeth the Patriarkes & namely the Bishoppe of Rome for Ec∣clesiasticall affaires.
• * 2.78

  Ibidem.
• * 2.79

  Ibidem.
• * 2.80

  The Prince inflicteth depriuation for the breach of his Ecclesi∣asticall lawes.
• * 2.81

  Gregories submission to Mauritius in causes Eccle∣siasticall.
• * 2.82

  Greg. Epi. lib. 2. cap. 100.
• * 2.83

  Ecclesiasti∣call Lawes made by the Prince with∣out the Popes knowledge & against his li∣king.

  How far was this man from deposing Princes?

  The Pope subiect to the Princes com∣maundement sendeth the princes pre∣cept through∣out his pro∣uince.

  The Pope of duetie yeel∣deth obediēce to his Prince. The Pope the Princes seruāt by publike right.

  He confesseth the Prince to be Lord ouer all.

  Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 74.

  The Prince commaunded the Bishop of Rome to be at peace with the Bishop of Constantino∣ple.
• * 2.84

  Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 76.
• * 2.85

  The Pope re∣dy to obey the Princes commaunde∣ment.
• * 2.86

  Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 78.
• * 2.87

  The Pope sub¦mitting him∣selfe to the Princes plea∣sure in cau∣ses ecclesi∣asticall.
• * 2.88

  The Pope o∣uerruled in his consistorie with the prin∣ces precept.
• * 2.89

  Sextae Synod. act. 4.
• * 2.90

  The Popes o∣bedience to the Emperour was no curte∣sie but duetie. Sext. Synod. act. 4. Agathonis Epist. 2.

  All the Bi∣shops of the North and West partes seruants to the Emperour as well as they of the East.
• * 2.91

  Distinct. 10. ca. de capitulis. The Pope pro¦fesseth 850. yeares after Christ that he will inuiola∣bly keepe the Princes eccle∣siastical chap∣ters & lawes.
• * 2.92

  How farre the Pope was thē from the supe∣rioritie which he nowe clai∣meth ouer Princes.
• * 2.93

  August. contra Cresconium, lib. 3. cap. 51.
• * 2.94

  The Iesuites cauils against the Princes soueraigntie.
• * 2.95

  Ieremies wordes con∣clude nothing for the Pope.
• * 2.96

  Ieremie ap∣pointed a Pro¦phet ouer na∣tions.

  Ierem. 1.
• * 2.97

  Ierem. 1.
• * 2.98

  Theodor. in 1. cap. Ierem.
• * 2.99

  Bernard. consi∣derat. lib. 2.
• * 2.100

  Lyra in 1. cap. Ierem.
• * 2.101

  Lyra in 1. cap. Ierem.

  Hieron. in 1. ca. Ierem.
• * 2.102

  Grego. Pastoral. part. 3. admoni∣tio 35.

  Hieron. in 1. cap. Ierem.
• * 2.103

  1. Tim. 6. Reuel. 19.
• * 2.104

  Dan. 4. Reuel. 17. Esai. 6.

  Esaie maketh not the prince subiect to the Pope.

  Hieron. in 60. cap. Esai.
• * 2.105

  Esai. 60. Esai. 49.
• * 2.106

  Esai. 60.
• * 2.107

  Hieron. in Esai. cap. 60.
• * 2.108

  Euerie mem∣ber of Christs church hath as good inter∣est in Esaies wordes as the Pope.
• * 2.109

  Princes shall serue thee, that is e∣uerie part of thee, or the noblest part of thee: nei∣ther of which maketh for the Pope.
• * 2.110

  Princes may serue none but Christ.
• * 2.111

  Psalm. 2. Matth. 4. Philip. 2.
• * 2.112

  Heb. 1. Colos. 1.
• * 2.113

  An allegori∣call text yeel∣deth no lite∣rall conclusiō. Esai. 60.
• * 2.114

  Esai. 60.
• * 2.115

  What it is for Princes to serue and sub∣mit them∣selues to the church.
• * 2.116

  Aug. contr. lit. Petilian. lib. 2. cap. 92.

  Idem. contr. 2. Gauden. Epist. lib. 2. cap. 26.
• * 2.117

  Heb. 13. Obey your rulers as well all, as one.
• * 2.118

  The Iesuites windlace to bring the Prince in subiection to the Pope.
• * 2.119

  Heb. 13.
• * 2.120

  Heb. 13. The words of S. Paul, obey your rulers, make nothing for the Pope. Heb. 13.
• * 2.121

  2. Cor. 4.
• * 2.122

  2. Corin. 1.
• * 2.123

  Mark. 10.
• * 2.124

  Act. 20. Bishops are set in the Church by the holy ghost to feede, not to rule.
• * 2.125

  Regère applied to Bishops is to rule ang gouerne with aduise & coū∣cell, not with power and dominion.
• * 2.126

  S. Pauls words haue no rela∣tion to the Popes person, nor to that kinde of rule which he clai∣meth.
• * 2.127

  They pretend the Church when they meane the Pope.
• * 2.128

  Esai. 60. Ibidem.
• * 2.129

  The cunning of their Apo∣logie.

  Apolog. cap. 4.
• * 2.130

  The Prince is supreme, though the Church bee superiour.
• * 2.131

  Howe the Church is su∣periour to the Prince.
• * 2.132

  The Saintes in heauen bee part of the church.
• * 2.133

  Ephe. 2. Galat. 4. Aug. de ciuit. Dei lib. 10. cap. 7.
• * 2.134

  Aug. in Psalm. 149.
• * 2.135

  Idem de ciuit. Dei lib. 20. cap. 9.

  1. Cor. 10.
• * 2.136

  In the name of the Church are many things contai∣ned.
• * 2.137

  Ambros. de in∣carnat. Domin. sacra. cap. 5.

  August. quaest. super Leuit. lib. 3. cap. 57.

  Idem de cate∣chizan. rudibus cap. 3.

  Persons are not the church with∣out other things anne∣xed to them.
• * 2.138

  Galat. 3. Hebre 13. Rom. 8. Rom. 8.
• * 2.139

  Ambro. Epist. lib. 5. oratio contra Auxen∣tium.
• * 2.140

  August epist. 157.

  The Church is sometimes taken for the place.

  Idem quaest. sup. Leuit•• ••••.3. cap 57.

  Idem in psal. 137.

  Sometimes for the persōs.

  Idem in Euchi∣vid. Cap. 56.

  The Church of all the cho∣sen men and Angels.

  Ibidem. August. de Cate∣chiz. vudibus, Cap. 3.

  Idem in Psal. 62.

  The Church is the number of the faithful that euer were, a••e, or shalbe.
• * 2.141

  Idem in Psal. 90. concio. 2. The church is the num∣ber of parti∣cular men in seueral times and places.

  August. de vni∣tate eccles. cap. 11.

  Idem in Psal. 64 & 121.
• * 2.142

  Rom. 14.
• * 2.143

  Mat. 21.
• * 2.144

  1. Tim. 3. August. de ver∣bis Apostoli sermo. 22.
• * 2.145

  That which entereth the definition must nedes be cōtained in the appel∣lation of the Church.
• * 2.146

  August. epist. 38.

  Idem de baptis. lib. 1. cap. 10.

  Idem in Psal. 57. & 30.

  Idem epist. 203. Ambros. in psal. 118. sermo. 15.

  Idem in psal. 36.

  1. Tim. 3.
• * 2.147

  Ambros. oratio contra Auxent. The Prince not aboue the Church, though supe∣riour to al persons in the Church.
• * 2.148

  Mat. 22.
• * 2.149

  What things Princes haue neither right to cōmaund nor power to rule.
• * 2.150

  See fol. 147.
• * 2.151

  Mat. 20.
• * 2.152

  Princes are aboue al per∣sons, but not aboue the Church, Ergo the Church is taken for more than for persons. Ambros. lib. 5. Cap. 33.
• * 2.153

  Ambros. de obi∣tu Theodosij.
• * 2.154

  Apolog. Cap. 4. sect. 30.
• * 2.155

  Epist. 33. ad Sororem.
• * 2.156

  Ibidem.
• * 2.157

  The Iesuits nippe saint Ambroses wordes.
• * 2.158

  Ambros. lib. 1. epist 32.
• * 2.159

  We make no Prince iudge of faith.
• * 2.160

  Wherin Saint Ambrose withstood Valentinian.
• * 2.161

  The reasons why S. Ambr. refused Valen∣tinians iudge∣ment as nei∣ther fit nor in∣different.
• * 2.162

  Ambros. lib. 5. orat. contra Auxentium.
• * 2.163

  Idem lib. 5. epist. 32.
• * 2.164

  Ibidem.
• * 2.165

  Ambros. lib. 5. epist. 33.

  Ambrose would not yeeld his con∣sent to let the Arrians haue his Church.

  Idem orat. contra Auxent. Ibidem. Ibidē. epist. 32. Ibidem orat. contra Auxent.

  Ambrose re∣sisted not the Prince but denied his consent to part stakes with the Arrians.

  Ibidē epist. 33. He submitted himselfe to the punish∣ment, for that he could not with a good conscience obey the cōmaunde∣ment.

  Ibidē. epist. 32. Ambrose ment to obey the Prince but not to flie for feare thereby to saue his life. Ibidem oratio. contra Auxen∣tium.

  Ibidē epist. 33. Ibidem oratio. Contra Auxen.
• * 2.166

  Ibidem orat. contra Auxent. Ibidem epist. 33.
• * 2.167

  Ibidem epist. 32.
• * 2.168

  Why Valen∣tinian would not iudge be∣tweene the Bishops of diuers faiths.
• * 2.169

  Sozom. lib. 6. Cap. 7.
• * 2.170

  Valentinian distrusting his iudgement suffered the Arrians to doe what they would.

  Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 6.

  Socrat. lib. 4. Cap. 1.

  Sozom. lib. 6. Cap. 21.
• * 2.171

  Theodoret. li. 4. Cap. 5.

  Sozom. lib. 6. Cap. 6.

  Valentinian maried two wiues & gaue al men leaue to doe the like.

  Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 31.
• * 2.172

  Socra. lib. 4. Cap 29.
• * 2.173

  Ambros. lib. 5. epist. 32.
• * 2.174

  Theodosius discerned be∣tweene the Bishops though Valē∣tinian would not or could not.

  Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 10.
• * 2.175

  Codic. li. 1. tit. 1. de summa tri∣nitate & side Catholica § Cunctos.

  The trewe faith in Theo∣dosius time was kept at Rome; & that was the same which we pro∣fesse at this day.
• * 2.176

  Princes com∣maunded such as were here••••••es to be 〈…〉〈…〉 of the•• Churches.

  Sozom. lib. 7. Cap. 9.

  Codic. lib. 1. tit. 1. § nulius.
• * 2.177

  Theodoret. li. 5. Cap. 2.
• * 2.178

  Euagrius lib. 1. Cap. 12.
• * 2.179

  So did Iusti∣nian appoint depriuation for the breach almost of eue∣ry of his ec∣clesiasticall lawes.

  Apolog. Cap. 4. sect. 28.

  Epist. ad solitar. vitam degentes.
• * 2.180

  Apolog. Cap. 4. sect. 29.

  Cited of S. Athanas. in the epistle aforesaid.

  Suidas in verbo Leontius.

  Lib. imperfect. 2. ad Constant.
• * 2.181

  Constantius reproued for his tyrannous and iniurious oppressing the Church.
• * 2.182

  Apolog. cap. 4.

  Athanasius wordes dis∣cussed.

  Apolog. Cap. 4.
• * 2.183

  Athanas. epist. ad solitar. vitā agentes.
• * 2.184

  The Iesuitical madnes of citing the fa∣thers to beare out that which should expound the rest.

  Hilar. de trinit. lib. 4.
• * 2.185

  How Princes may rule Bishops, and how not.
• * 2.186

  Comment. sub nomine Atha∣nas. in 13. Rom.
• * 2.187

  Disputa. Atha. cum Arrio Laodicee habitae
• * 2.188

  Sorat. lib. 1. Cap. 33.

  Idem li. 1. ca. 33.
• * 2.189

  Princes may not rule Bi∣shops, that is not force them, nor frame them to their fansies.
• * 2.190

  Vide Athanas. epist. ad solitar. vitam agentes.
• * 2.191

  〈◊〉〈◊〉 may play the tirāts in temporal things, much more in spiri∣tual if they passe christiā moderation and sobriety. Ibidem.
• * 2.192

  Ibidem.
• * 2.193

  Constantius would haue his will to be the Canon of the church.
• * 2.194

  Hilar. de trin. lib. 9.

  The wordes of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈…〉〈…〉 ••o th••t which ••s antecedent & consequent in the same epistle.
• * 2.195

  Fiue things misliked in Constantius as tyrannical.
• * 2.196

  Hilar. lib. 3. ad Constant.

  Oftē chaing∣ing his faith.
• * 2.197

  Ibidem. Hilar. lib. 1. contra Constan∣tium defunct.
• * 2.198

  Ibidem. Constantius was dead and so no Prince, when Hilarie was so bould with him in his termes.
• * 2.199

  Hilar. lib. 1. contra Constan. Forcing Sy∣nods to his fansie.
• * 2.200

  Athanaes. ad Solitar. vitam agentes.
• * 2.201

  Athans. Apolo. 2. in epis. Synod. Alexand.
• * 2.202

  Athanas. ad Solitar. vitam agentes.
• * 2.203

  Suidas in Leon∣tio Tripolis Episco.
• * 2.204

  Apud Suidam ibidem.
• * 2.205

  Admitting false accusa∣tions against Bishops, and not suffering them to speak for thēselues.
• * 2.206

  Athan. ad Solit. vitam agentes.
• * 2.207

  This was plaine tyran∣ny repugnant to the lawes of God and man.
• * 2.208

  Athan. ad solis. vitam agentes.
• * 2.209

  Athan. in ead•• Epist.

  Disordered e∣lecting of Bi∣shops.
• * 2.210

  Athan. ibidem.
• * 2.211

  Tyrannous persecuting.
• * 2.212

  Hilar. lib. 1. contra Constan. defunct.
• * 2.213

  Athan. ad so••it. vitam agentes.
• * 2.214

  These fathers reproued Cō∣stantius for that he did. Now what he did, their own wordes doe witnesse.
• * 2.215

  Osius wordes examined.
• * 2.216

  Athan. ad solit. vitam agentes.
• * 2.217

  It is neither lawfull for a Bishop to hold a kingdō: nor for a Prince to take a Bi∣shops functiō on him.
• * 2.218

  The Priest shall not ex∣cuse the Prince before God: and therefore the the Prince can not bee bound to the Priests mouth
• * 2.219

  The limiting of Osius words.
• * 2.220

  Aug. epist. 50.
• * 2.221

  The words of Osius must be limited, & the limitation whatsoeuer it be cannot hurt vs.
• * 2.222

  Suidas in Leon. Tripolis Epis••.
• * 2.223

  Princes may not do what they list in the church of God.

  Leontius wil∣fullie corrup∣ted by the Ie∣suites.
• * 2.224

  This was a∣boue Constā∣tius ••each and without his vocation to teach bishops in his owne person.
• * 2.225

  Suidas a late writer.
• * 2.226

  Suidas in eodē Leont.
• * 2.227

  Leontius a man of no great iudge∣ment.
• * 2.228

  Hilarie would not haue men forced to reli∣gion with tor∣tures.
• * 2.229

  Hilar. lib. 2. ad Constant.
• * 2.230

  Temporall Iudges had their charge by the Re∣mane lawes limited vnto temporall 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 2.231

  Niceph. lib. 7. cap. 46.

  Ambros. lib. 5.

  Epist. 32.

  Nouel. Constit. 83.
• * 2.232

  Clergiemen exempted frō temporall lawes, but not frō the Prin∣ces lawes. Ibidem.
• * 2.233

  Princes haue euer medled with ecclesia∣stical matters,
• * 2.234

  Nabuchodo∣nosor. Daniel. 3.
• * 2.235

  Aug. Epist. 50.
• * 2.236

  Darius. Daniel. 6.
• * 2.237

  Ionas 3. The king of Niniueth.
• * 2.238

  Ionas 3.
• * 2.239

  August. Epi. 50. S. Austen pro∣poseth their examples to be followed of christiā kings.
• * 2.240

  Aug. Epist. 166.
• * 2.241

  The comman¦dementes of kinges may lawfully reach to the publish▪
• * 2.242

  Kinges and rulers commā¦ded by the holy Ghost for medling with religion. ing of religiō.
• * 2.243

  Moses. Exod. 32.
• * 2.244

  Numbers 16.
• * 2.245

  Deut. 32.33.
• * 2.246

  Iosua. Iosua. 1.
• * 2.247

  Iosua. 1.
• * 2.248

  Iosua. 5•• 8. Iosua. 8.
• * 2.249

  Iosua. 7. Iosua. 24.
• * 2.250

  Iosua. 24.
• * 2.251

  Dauid. 1. Chron. 16.1. Chron. 23.24 25.26.
• * 2.252

  3. King. 2.
• * 2.253

  3. King. 9.
• * 2.254

  The Magi∣strate charged with all the wordes of Moses law.
• * 2.255

  3. Kinges 9.
• * 2.256

  Iosua 1.
• * 2.257

  Deut. 17.
• * 2.258

  They which discharged their duties to God medled with all things as well Eccle∣siasticall as ciuill.
• * 2.259

  Kinges be charged with Gods law in respect of cō∣maunding it to others.
• * 2.260

  August. Epi. 50.
• * 2.261

  Idem contra lit. Petiliani, lib. 2. cap. 92.

  Idem. contra Cres. lib. 3. cap. 51.

  Idem. Epist. 50.
• * 2.262

  Idem. in Psalm. 44.

  No man is a king in res∣pect of him∣selfe but of his people.

  Keeping and obseruing re∣ferred to ma∣gistrats, is no∣thing else but to commaund & see the law of God kept & obserued by others.
• * 2.263

  Aug. Epist. 50.
• * 2.264

  Salomon.
• * 2.265

  3. Kings 8. 3. Kinges 2.
• * 2.266

  3. Kings 11.
• * 2.267

  Asa. 2. Chron. 14.
• * 2.268

  2. Chro. 15.
• * 2.269

  Iehosaphat. 2. Chro. 17. Vers. 3. Vers. 4. Vers. 5. Vers. 7. Vers. 8. 2. Chro. 19. Vers. 4. Vers. 8. Vers. 9. Vers. 10. Vers. 11.
• * 2.270

  Vers. 10. Vers. 11.
• * 2.271

  2. Chron. 20. Vers. 3. Vers. 5. Vers. 6.
• * 2.272

  Ezechiah. 2. Chron. 29. Vers. 2. Vers. 3.4. Vers. 5. Vers. 10. Vers. 15. Vers. 20. Vers. 21. Vers. 27. Vers. 21. Vers. 29.
• * 2.273

  Vers. 30.
• * 2.274

  2. Chron. 30. Vers. 1.
• * 2.275

  Vers. 6.
• * 2.276

  Vers. 12. 2. Chron. 31. Vers. 2.
• * 2.277

  Vers. 21.
• * 2.278

  4. Kings. 18.
• * 2.279

  Manasses. 2. Chron. 33. Vers. 3.
• * 2.280

  Vers. 11. Vers. 12. Vers. 13.
• * 2.281

  Vers. 15.
• * 2.282

  Vers. 16.
• * 2.283

  Iosiah. 2. Chron. 34. vers. 3.
• * 2.284

  Vers. 4.
• * 2.285

  Vers. 5. Vers. 7.
• * 2.286

  Vers. 29. Vers. 30.
• * 2.287

  Vers. 31.
• * 2.288

  Vers. 32. Vers 33.
• * 2.289

  2. Chron. 35. vers. 1. Vers. 2. Vers. 3. Vers. 4. Vers. 5. Vers. 6.
• * 2.290

  Vers. 10.
• * 2.291

  Vers. 16.
• * 2.292

  Nehemias. Nehem. 6. Nehe. 10. vers. 1.
• * 2.293

  Vers. 29.
• * 2.294

  Nehem. 13. Vers. 7. Vers. 8. Vers. 9. Vers. 11. Vers. 17. Vers. 10. & 11. Vers. 22. Vers. 23. Vers. 25. Vers. 28.
• * 2.295

  Ver. 30.
• * 2.296

  The illation vpon the for∣mer examples
• * 2.297

  The kinges decreed and commaunded those thinges though hap∣pily the Pro∣phetes did aduise them and persuade them.
• * 2.298

  To be dire∣cted and ad∣uised by o∣thers doth not hinder the Princes authoritie.
• * 2.299

  The high Priest among the Iewes had his commissi∣on from Gods owne mouth, the Pope hath not. Deut. 17.
• * 2.300

  The best chri∣stian Princes haue followed the steppes of the kings of Iudah.
• * 2.301

  God himselfe speaketh and commandeth by the hearts and lawes of Princes.
• * 2.302

  August. de ciui. Dei li. 5. cap. 24.
• * 2.303

  Idem. Epi. 166.
• * 2.304

  Ibidem.
• * 2.305

  Aug. Epist. 50.
• * 2.306

  Religion the chiefest care that Princes ought to haue Cod. lib. 1. tit. 17 de veter. iure enucleando, § Deo authore. Authen. constit. 6.

  Codic. Theodos. lib. 16. tit. 4. de religione, § Ea quae.

  Legum nouell. Theodos. tit. 2. de Iudeis & Sa∣maritanis, § In∣ter caeteras.
• * 2.307

  Valentinian himselfe was content at length to cō∣maund for truth.

  Theodoret. lib. 4. cap. 8.

  Codic. lib. 1. tit. 6. Nesacrū Bap∣tisma iteratur.
• * 2.308

  Euagrius lib. 3. cap. 14.

  The right faith is the only strength of an earthly kingdom.
• * 2.309

  Idem lib. 5. cap. 4.
• * 2.310

  Niceph. dedica∣tio operis.

  In Greece the Emperours kept this pow∣er 1300. yeres after Christ.
• * 2.311

  Ibidem paulo ante.
• * 2.312

  Diligent care of Gods cau∣ses the surest proppe of a Princes seat.
• * 2.313

  A king of this land making lawes for reli∣gion a 1000 yeres after Christ.
• * 2.314

  Lege. 1.
• * 2.315

  Lege. 6.
• * 2.316

  Lege. 7.
• * 2.317

  Lege. 14 & 15.
• * 2.318

  Lege. 16.
• * 2.319

  Lege. 19 & 21.
• * 2.320

  Lege. 22.
• * 2.321

  Lege. 26. ••iter politica i••ra erusilem. Lege. 4 & 6.
• * 2.322

  The weakest of these pla∣ces proue that Princes meddle with ecclesiasticall causes, which they would seeme to ••ray them from by Osi••s wordes.
• * 2.323

  And conse∣quently their sword stretch∣eth vnto spi∣ritual things as well as vn∣to temporal.
• * 2.324

  When papists be posed with these places and cannot auoide them, they slip to an other question and cauill about the direction of Princes vnto trueth.
• * 2.325

  Princes may commaund for all points of trueth as well as for one.
• * 2.326

  He that may commaund for trueth may iustly punish for trueth.
• * 2.327

  As lawfull for the Prince to punish Ido∣laters and he∣retikes, as theeues and murderers.
• * 2.328

  Both sides graunt that Princes must punish as well spirituall as temporall offences.
• * 2.329

  He that wil punish must first prohibit.
• * 2.330

  If Princes may punish & prohibite that which is euill in matters of religion, ergo they may commaund & establish that which is good in the same causes. August. epist. 50.

  Idem contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51.
• * 2.331

  Papists grant princes may punish for religion but not cōmaund: & yet punish∣ing is a very forcible kind of cōmaund∣ing.
• * 2.332

  Nothing clea∣rer than that Princes may commaund for matters of religion
• * 2.333

  August. epist. 166. Ibidem. The word cō∣maunding which they most auoide is most vsual in the sacred scriptures & auncient lawes of Christian Princes. Epist. 66.
• * 2.334

  Nouel, consti∣tut. 3.5.6.16.37.42.57.58.59.67.77.79.83.109.117.131.132.133.141.144.146. If princes at all may meddle with matters of religion they must needes commaund.
• * 2.335

  Or if the Ie∣suites will not graunt so much, let them looke to the places that went be∣fore and pre∣sently follow.
• * 2.336

  They would none of this if they could chose, because they hold that Bishops in these cases must com∣mand Princes.
• * 2.337

  What Osius ment by say∣ing Cōmand•• vs not, in this kinde.
• * 2.338

  Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 3. cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 28. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 4. cap. 42. Socra. lib. 1. ca. 4.
• * 2.339

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. Idem. lib. 1. cap. 38. Theodoret. li. 4. cap. 8.
• * 2.340

  Idem. lib. 4. cap. 7.
• * 2.341

  1. Tim. 3.
• * 2.342

  Cod. lib. 1. tit. 6.

  Ne sanct. bapt. i••eretur.
• * 2.343

  Cod. lib. 1. tit. 1.
• * 2.344

  Ibidem. § nullus
• * 2.345

  Socrat. lib. 5. ca. 7.
• * 2.346

  Gregor. epist. li. 4. ca. 78. Legū Franciae lib. 1. ca. 76.
• * 2.347

  Ibidem, cap. 71.
• * 2.348

  Chalced. Concil. actio. epist. Theodosii & Valentiniani ad Dioscorum.
• * 2.349

  The Prince appointeth what Bishops shalbe pre∣sent at the Councell.
• * 2.350

  Ibidem Impe∣ratoris epist. ad eund•• § Diosco. reuerendo.

  The Prince maketh the president of the Councel. The Prince limiteth who shall haue voyces in the Councell.

  Ibidem Impe∣ratoris commo∣nitorium ad Elpidum.
• * 2.351

  Ibidem oratio. Martiani ad Synodum.
• * 2.352

  Ibidem epist. Euseb. ad Im∣perator.
• * 2.353

  Nouel. Constit. 6. § Maxima quidem.

  These com∣maundemēts of Iustinian bound the Bi∣shop of Rome no lesse than other Bishops.

  Ibidem § & hanc non pe∣cunijs.
• * 2.354

  Ibidem § •• quis aute•• talis.
• * 2.355

  Ibidem § & illud etiam definimus.
• * 2.356

  Ibidem § sed ne{que} effusas.

  The prince cōmaundeth the whole clergie, Patri∣arks, Metro∣politanes, Bi∣shops and the rest whatso∣euer, to ob∣serue his ecclesiastical lawes.
• * 2.357

  Nouel. constit. 16. ad finem.
• * 2.358

  Constit. 57.
• * 2.359

  Constit. 123. § exigatur autem prius.

  These lawes. extēded to all prouinces & patriarkes.

  Ibidem, § prae omnibus autem illud.
• * 2.360

  Ibidem § inter∣dicimus autem. Ibidem § quis a vero.
• * 2.361

  Synodes cal∣led for eccle∣siastical cau∣ses were tied to the Lawes imperiall.

  Ibidem C. ad haec iubemus.

  All Bishops commanded by the Prince. Ibidem § Insu∣per interdici∣mus.

  Eadem constit. § omnibus ve∣ro epis.

  Vniust excō∣munication punished by the Princes lawes.

  Eadem constit. § praeterea si qui.

  The Courts and consisto∣ries of all Bi∣shops, Archbi∣shops & patri∣arks limited as well to the Princes lawes as to the Canons.
• * 2.362

  No appeal from the Patriark.
• * 2.363

  Eadem constit. § Clericos autē.
• * 2.364

  Euagrius. lib. 4. cap. 9.

  Idem li. 5. ca. 6.
• * 2.365

  Idem lib. 5. ca. 5.
• * 2.366

  Cod. lib. 1. tit. 3. de epist. & cle∣ri, C. si quen∣quam.
• * 2.367

  Cod. lib. 1. tit. 2. de sacrosactis ecclesiis C. de∣cernimus.
• * 2.368

  Osius words if they were not diuersly answered by vs, may not controle the perpetuall practise of Christs Church.
• * 2.369

  The cunning of the papists in this point is either to belie our do∣ctrine, or to slip them∣selues frō the question.
• * 2.370

  The summe & effect of the former alle∣gations & au∣thorities for the Princes power.
• * 2.371

  Or if they doe not, disproue them.
• * 2.372

  Apolog. cap. 1.
• * 2.373

  The Iesuites in their Apo∣logie, for all their vaunts neuer come neere the princes power which we defend.
• * 2.374

  The Princes authoritie as we defend it.
• * 2.375

  The Princes supremacie as we main∣taine it.
• * 2.376

  Neither of these points touched in the Apolog.
• * 2.377

  The absurdi∣ties which the Iesuites mus∣ter against the Princes supremacie.

  Apolog. cap. 4. sect. 21.

  1. Cor. 14. 1. Tim. 2.
• * 2.378

  Sect. 22.
• * 2.379

  Epist. 55.
• * 2.380

  Sect. 23.
• * 2.381

  August. contra Gaudentij epist. lib. 2. Cap. 25.
• * 2.382

  Sect. 24.
• * 2.383

  Sect. 25.
• * 2.384

  Their absur∣dities be grounded on their owne dreames, not on our do∣ctrine.
• * 2.385

  To this that Princes may cōmaund for trueth, no ab∣surdity can be consequent.
• * 2.386

  Whē Princes cōmaund that which is good it is Christ & no man els that com∣maundeth by their mouthes.

  Epist. 166. Ibidem.
• * 2.387

  Ibidem.
• * 2.388

  Their ab∣surdities must be inferred vppon our assertion, if they bring them against vs.
• * 2.389

  May not Christ appoint as well as the Pope what Princes shall commaund.
• * 2.390

  To cōmaund that which God com∣maundeth is pietie and no absurditie.
• * 2.391

  Supreme, as we professe it, hath no ab∣surditie con∣sequent to it.
• * 2.392

  This miscon∣stering of su∣preme is the ground of all their absurdi∣ties.
• * 2.393

  Apol. cap. 4. Sect. 21.
• * 2.394

  Mat. 28.
• * 2.395

  Princes giue no commissiō but a permissi∣on and free libertie with∣out let to the ministers of the word and Sacramentes.
• * 2.396

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 21.
• * 2.397

  God hath al∣readie by his law prescri∣bed which way he wilbe serued: that Princes may and must com¦mand in their realms though the Pope say nay.
• * 2.398

  Princes be not supreme to do what they list in religion, but only free from the Popes iu∣risdiction.

  The feare of God and not the practises of Popes must keepe Princes from doing e∣uill.
• * 2.399

  The other toucheth our duetie to the Prince, & not the Princes duety vnto God.
• * 2.400

  The Prince beareth the sword vnder and not aboue God.
• * 2.401

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 22.
• * 2.402

  Epist. 55.
• * 2.403

  The spirituall regiment of the soule is properlie Christes and not the piests.
• * 2.404

  The Prea∣chers functiō excelleth the Princes in perfection & comfort, but not in power to commaund or meanes to compell.
• * 2.405

  The same god forceth by the Princes sword that teacheth by the preach¦ers mouth.
• * 2.406

  Iohn. 3.
• * 2.407

  Heb. 12. The kingdom is not aboue the Church though the Prince punish wicked priests.
• * 2.408

  The true sheepeheard is only Christ•• the rest are his seruantes and not the owners of the sheepe.
• * 2.409

  1. Pet. 5.
• * 2.410

  Princes in their vocatiō be shepheards and beare the staffe to com∣pel where the voice will not serue.

  1. Chron. 11. Psal. 78.
• * 2.411

  The Prince is bound to obey the prea¦chers worde, if he speak truth and so is the Preacher bound to obey the Princes Lawes, if they be good.

  1. Thes. 4.
• * 2.412

  Aug. Epist 166.

  Princes be no iudges of Re∣ligion.
• * 2.413

  S. Cyprians words allead∣ged without his meaning.

  Cypr. lib. 1. Ep. 3
• * 2.414

  Cyprian al∣lowed the people to re∣iect their Bi∣shop, if hee were vnwor∣thy.

  Lib. 1. Epist. 4.
• * 2.415

  Cypr. lib. 1. ep. 4. Though the Bishop of Rome tooke his part.

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 22.

  The Prince not free from Christes Pre∣ceptes.

  Princes must hear the word and receiue the Sacra∣ments in such sort as God hath appoin∣ted.

  The Preacher is prescribed how he shall minister the Sacramentes, not how hee shall depose Princes.

  We deny this argument.
• * 2.416

  Excommuni∣cation made a wrest to lift Princes out of their seates.
• * 2.417

  The seruant must not thinke him∣selfe superiour to all that his master may commaund.
• * 2.418

  In vaine seeke they reasons to make the Priest superi∣our to the Prince, whom God himselfe hath made subiect to the Prince.
• * 2.419

  Apol. cap. 4. Sect. 23.
• * 2.420

  They harp on Christs priest∣hoode, as if they were Christes own fellowes in his priestly dignitie.
• * 2.421

  Christ hath no higher title than the king of glorie, and Prince of the world to come
• * 2.422

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 23.
• * 2.423

  The commu∣nion of Saints consisteth not in obedience to the Pope.
• * 2.424

  Nor in exter∣nall rites and ceremonies.
• * 2.425

  The true com¦munion of the church.
• * 2.426

  The commu∣nion of the Church not dissolued by the varietie of rites.
• * 2.427

  Epist. 118.
• * 2.428

  Euseb. lib. 5. c••. 26.
• * 2.429

  Ibidem.
• * 2.430

  Euseb. lib. 5. ca. 23.
• * 2.431

  The Church from the be∣ginning had diuersitie of rites.
• * 2.432

  Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 22.
• * 2.433

  Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 22.
• * 2.434

  Heb. 12.
• * 2.435

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 23.
• * 2.436

  The Popes pride first de∣caied the West Chur∣ches.
• * 2.437

  Cyprian. lib. 3. Epist. 13.

  A number of watchmen in the Church better than one.
• * 2.438

  Apol. chap. 4. sect. 24.
• * 2.439

  Vsurpers and forrainers.
• * 2.440

  The Iesuits cauill at the word Forrai∣ner.
• * 2.441

  God is no forrainer to men.
• * 2.442

  Soules in hea∣uen be no for∣rainers.
• * 2.443

  Soules in hea∣uen exercise no iurisdictiō ecclesiasticall nor spirituall on earth.
• * 2.444

  Apol. Cap. 4. sect. 24.
• * 2.445

  Princes beare the sword in these causes to see that permitted and defen∣ded in their realms which Christ com∣manded.
• * 2.446

  None but Princes can giue freedom and protectiō to these spiri∣tual functions and actions.

  Apolog. Cap. 4. Sect. 25.
• * 2.447

  Generall coū∣cels were wōt to be assistāts vnto Princes, not tribunals aboue princes

  A generall councel must haue the con∣sent of al chri∣stian coūtries.
• * 2.448

  The late coun¦cel of Trent a mere factiō of the Popes, sworne to take his part and content to refer all things to his power.
• * 2.449

  Concil. Triden. Sess. 25. decres. de reformatione cap. 21.

  Item. Sess. 7.
• * 2.450

  Such wronges were neuer offered in the Councell of ancient times.
• * 2.451

  The Prince for 1200. yeres called gene∣ral Councels, and not the Pope.
• * 2.452

  The poore Friers were 18 yeares dispu∣ting, whether the Pope and his Cardinals were conspi∣ring against the godly.
• * 2.453

  Apolog. cap. 4. Sect. 25.
• * 2.454

  We yeld more subiection to Christ & his Apostles than they do.
• * 2.455

  The Apostles we reuerēce & obey as the messengers of Christ.
• * 2.456

  Distinct. 34. ¶ Lector. & caus. 15. q. 6. ¶. auto∣ritate in gloss. Pig. Hierar. lib. 1. cap. 2.

  1. Thes. 2.

  1. Thes. 2.

  R••m. 1.
• * 2.457

  We owe com∣munion not subiection vn∣to Councels.

  Reuelat. 22.
• * 2.458

  Cypr. ad Qui∣rinum.

  Peter claimed no subiection to his tribu∣nall.
• * 2.459

  In sententijs Concilij Cartha.
• * 2.460

  The Popes councels are tyrannicall.
• * 2.461

  Many before vs haue refu∣sed forraigne tribunall.

  Cypr. in senten∣tijs Concil. Car.
• * 2.462

  Ibidem.
• * 2.463

  Ibidem.
• * 2.464

  Polycrates.
• * 2.465

  Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 25.

  Augustine.

  Concil. African. cap. 29.

  Concil. African. cap. 105.
• * 2.466

  The Britons. Ga••frid. Mone∣mutens. lib. 8. ca. 4.
• * 2.467

  Lib. 7. indict. 1. Epist. 30.

  This Bishop of Rome clai∣med no Tri∣bunall ouer o∣ther countries
• * 2.468

  Greg. Lib. 4. Epist. 38.
• * 2.469

  No Tribunall ouer the whole church, but onelie Christ.
• * 2.470

  Gregor. lib. 6. Epist. 24.
• * 2.471

  The Popes Tribunall made him first forget both God & man.
• * 2.472

  A Tribunal fit for the diuell him selfe.
• * 2.473

  Distict. 40. ¶ Non nos glos. i∣bidē ¶ quis enim. Caus. 17. quaest. 4. ¶ Si quis.
• * 2.474

  Sacrilege to doubt of the Popes fact, or dispute of his iudgement.

  Distinct. 19. ¶ Sic omnes.
• * 2.475

  Distinct. 22. ¶ Omnes.

  Heresie to mutter a∣gainst the Popes pride.
• * 2.476

  Extrau. Iohan, 22. ¶ cum inter nonnullos; glos. ibide••. ¶ decla∣ramus.

  Extra. Iohan. 22 ¶ quia quondā. glos. ¶ non vt Papa.

  Extrau. commu∣nium, de maio∣ritate & obedi∣ent. ¶. Vnam sanctam.
• * 2.477

  Manicheisme and Paganism not to obey the Popes worde.

  Distinct. 81. ¶ Si qui sunt.

  What saide Samuell more of God, than the Pope here applieth to himselfe?

  Caus. 25. quaest. 1. ¶. violateres. Ibidem glos. ¶ Blasphe••a••e.
• * 2.478

  Cans. 25. quaest. 1. ¶ ideo permit∣tente.

  Ibidem.

  No canons but what the Pope maketh or alloweth.

  Ibidem.
• * 2.479

  Caus. 25. quaest. 1. ¶ generali.

  A breach of the faith to violate the popes decrees
• * 2.480

  1. Corinth. 16.
• * 2.481

  Distinct. 40. ¶ ••i Papa.
• * 2.482

  No man must finde fault with the Pope for leading men to hel by heapes.
• * 2.483

  Contra 2. Gau∣dentij Epist. lib. ••. cap. 25.
• * 2.484

  The Pope not Patriark ouer England.
• * 2.485

  Patriarks not erected by Christ but by consent of Bishops.
• * 2.486

  Hiero. in epist. ad Tit. cap. 1. Ibidem.
• * 2.487

  Hiero. Euag•• tom. epist. 2.
• * 2.488

  Ibidem.
• * 2.489

  Hierom. Ibidē.
• * 2.490

  The Patriarks grew by con∣sent and custome. Concil. Nicen. Cap. 6.
• * 2.491

  Concil. Ephes. 1. Decretum postquā Cypr. episc. accessissent ad concil.
• * 2.492

  Patriarks al∣wayes subiect to Princes & their ecclesi∣astical lawes.
• * 2.493

  Concil. Chalced. actio. 16.
• * 2.494

  Nouel. constit. 131.

  Princes gaue Bishops their prerogatiues ouer others.
• * 2.495

  Constit. 123. The Prince cōmaunded the Patriarks by name.
• * 2.496

  This Realme not in the Popes ancient Prouince. Inter August. epist. 95. Ibidē epist. 96.
• * 2.497

  Beda. hist. gen∣tis Angler. lib. 2. C••. 2.
• * 2.498

  The Pope affecting to be Christs vicar neglected his Patria••kdom.
• * 2.499

  The Kings of this land re∣sisted the Popes power in whole or in part euer since the con∣quest.
• * 2.500

  This Land subiect to him neither as Christs vicar, nor as Patri∣arke of the west.
• * 2.501

  Apol Cap. 4. sect. 25.
• * 2.502

  Bishoppes may preach wihout Cesars leaue if they submit themselues to Cesars sword as the Apo∣stles did.
• * 2.503

  The Iesuites cunning in playeng with the worde Supreme as they doe.
• * 2.504

  What the Ie∣suits imagine of the word Supreme.
• * 2.505

  The wordes of the oth be sound e••ough if they cease peruerting them.

  Ruler and Prince, be as doubtfull as gouernour, if men be dispo∣sed to cauill.

  Bishops be called Rulers, Princes, Kings & Queenes.

  Heb. 13. Act. 20. In. 1. Cap. epist. ad Titum. Idem in 3. Ca. 1. ad Tim. Lib. 4. Cap. 33. Morali. in Iob. In 49. ca. Esaiae.

  Euerie of the faithfull is a King and a Priest.

  Reuelat. 1. 1. Peter. 2. Lib. Cap. 37. Idem. lib. 4. Cap. 24. Ibidem.

  Princes are Bishops and Priests.

  Euagrie, tom. epist. 2. Idem Oceano eodem tom. Exod. 24. Iosua. 24. Iudges. 8. Iud••th. 6.
• * 2.506

  The ground of al their ab∣surdities is the cauilling at 〈◊〉〈◊〉 words.
• * 2.507

  The gouern∣ment of Prin∣ces & Pr••ests are distinct.
• * 2.508

  Gouernours of this realme none is but on¦ly the Prince.
• * 2.509

  This is the profound Logike of Rhemes.
• * 2.510

  A right Frier that will ne∣uer be answe∣red, though the Sophisme be neuer so grosse.
• * 2.511

  Only Princes beare the sworde within their owne dominions.
• * 2.512

  If only Prin∣ces beare the sword, they beare it in al things as well spiritual as tē∣porall where the sword is required.
• * 2.513

  The sworde must be vsed in spirituall things and causes as wel as temporall.
• * 2.514

  Princes cānot be defenders of the faith & officers of the Church but by means of the sword.
• * 2.515

  1. Tim. 2. The sword ordeined chiefly to pre∣serue godli∣nesse and ho∣nesty among men.
• * 2.516

  The sword of Princes is supreme in that it is not subiect to the Pope, & must be obeyed of al in things that be good.
• * 2.517

  These bee right Iesuiti∣call conceits.
• * 2.518

  The true su∣premacie of Princes.
• * 2.519

  The Papists in euery stile which they giue the Pope make him su∣preme.
• * 2.520

  Caus. 25. quaest. 1. § Nulli fas. Acclamationes in fine Concil. Triden. Sess. 25.
• * 2.521

  Supreme go∣uernour doth not touch Christ so nere as Supreme Bishop doth, which is the Popes vsuall stile.

  1. Pet. 5. 1. Pet. 2.

  My Kingdom is not of this world: Ioh. 18.

  Who made me Iudge ouer you: Luke 12.
• * 2.522

  Princes must be indured whatsoeuer they cōmand, but not obeyed agaynst the faith or canōs of the church. In temporall things Prin∣ces may not frustrate the lawes of their progeni∣tors, nor the liberties of the people.
• * 2.523

  Lib. 4. cap. 27.
• * 2.524

  Constit. 131. de Eccle. Canon.

  Al godly prin∣ces haue ad∣mitted the Canons of the Church.

  Constit. 6. Athanas. ad solitar. vitā agentes.
• * 2.525

  Gregor. lib. 9. epist. 41.
• * 2.526

  The Pope obeyed the Princes lawes not against the Canons.
• * 2.527

  The Popes name put in steed of the Princes.

  Caus. 7. quaest. 1. Scripsit.
• * 2.528

  Nouel. cōst. 83. Item const. 6.
• * 2.529

  To be tyed to the saith and canons of the Church doth not diminish their supre∣macie.
• * 2.530

  The Princes sword is not spirituall.
• * 2.531

  Ephes. 6.
• * 2.532

  Reuelat. 1.
• * 2.533

  Hebr. 4.

  The word of god is the spirituall sword.
• * 2.534

  The magis∣trats sword is corporall. Mat. 10. Mat. 10. And tem∣porall.
• * 2.535

  2. Cor. 4.
• * 2.536

  How the Pa∣pists abuse the word spi∣rituall in ex∣tending it to men and matters that they should not.
• * 2.537

  They be spiri∣tuall which haue the spi∣rit of God.

  1. Cor. 3. 1. Cor. 2. Gal. 6.
• * 2.538

  Iude epist.
• * 2.539

  1. Pet. 2.
• * 2.540

  Hieron. ad Iulian. tomo epist. 1.
• * 2.541

  Their lands & liuings must be spirituall though Saint Paul call thē carnall.

  1. Cor. 9. Rom. 15.
• * 2.542

  Mat. 22.
• * 2.543

  Ambros. epist. lib. 5. orat. cōtra Auxent.
• * 2.544

  The Romish kalender of spirituall things.
• * 2.545

  See the tytles of their De∣cretals.
• * 2.546

  Malefactours of al sortes should opēly repent before they be recei∣ued to the Sa∣craments.
• * 2.547

  Rom. 13.
• * 2.548

  The goods, lands, and li∣uings of Cler∣gie men be Cesars right.
• * 2.549

  What things Christiā Prin∣ces first com∣mitted to Bi∣shops for their learning and integritie, the Pope after∣ward toke thē vp as his own. Bishops the fittest men to deale in these causes, but by the Princes power and lawes.
• * 2.550

  Bishops by their function may deny the sacraments to such as will not repent, but they may not compel or punish any man without commission from the Prince.

  Compulsion & correction in all things is the Princes right.
• * 2.551

  The sword ordayned chiefly for things spiri∣tuall.

  Rom. 7. Ibidem.
• * 2.552

  Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Mark. 10.

  Worldly thinges be neither good nor euil: for which two causes Prin∣ces beare the word.
• * 2.553

  The spiritual things which the Pope clai∣meth are tē∣porall.
• * 2.554

  1. Cor. 13.
• * 2.555

  1. Cor. 14.
• * 2.556

  Princes were not ordained to cloa•••• the backe & feede the bel••••.

  ••. Tim. 6.
• * 2.557

  Mat. 6.
• * 2.558

  1. Tim. 2.
• * 2.559

  Godlines and honestie the chiefest cau∣ses why Prin∣ces were or∣dained.
• * 2.560

  The Prince hath the same charge in the cōmonwealth that euerie priuate man hath in his familie.

  Ephes. 6.

  The parentes charge to∣wardes their children.

  Psalm. 34. Deut. 4. Deut. 4.
• * 2.561

  Genes. 18.
• * 2.562

  Psalm. 101.

  Dauids charge in his king∣dome.
• * 2.563

  Religion the Princes chie∣fest charge.

  Nouel. Consti. 6.
• * 2.564

  Legum Theod. Nouel. tit. 2. de Iudaeis & Sa∣maritanis. Aug. epist. 162.

  The sifting & examining of a Bishop did most pertaine to the princes charge by S. Aug. iudgemēt
• * 2.565

  Epist. ad Luciū inter leges Ed∣ward. cap. 17.

  Eleutherius opinion of the Princes charge.

  Inter leges Ed∣ward. Reg. cap. 17.

  Pope Iohns opinion of the Princes charge.
• * 2.566

  Beda hist. gentis Anglor. cap. 32. Gregories cō∣fession of the Princes charge.
• * 2.567

  The king of Englands oth expressing his charge.

  Inter leges Ed∣ward. cap. 17. de Regis off••cio.
• * 2.568

  Ibidem.
• * 2.569

  The very hea∣then were of the same opi∣nion.
• * 2.570

  Politic. lib. 3. cap. 11. Ibidem, cap. 5.
• * 2.571

  In all king∣domes and common-wealthes since the foundati∣on of the earth religion hath been set∣led & defen∣ded by the Magistrates sword.
• * 2.572

  Their autho∣ritie must stretch as far as their dutie.
• * 2.573

  God hath gi∣uen Princes the sword in those thinges which himself commandeth.
• * 2.574

  The Priest in no cause may beare the sword.
• * 2.575

  The confir∣ming of Rites and Ceremo∣nies needeth the sword.
• * 2.576

  The abuse or contempt of excommuni∣cation reuen∣ged by the sword.

  The sworde committed to the Prince.

  Rom. 13.

  His Apostles forbidden the sword.

  Mat. 26.
• * 2.577

  Mat. 20.
• * 2.578

  Bernard de con∣siderat. lib. 2.
• * 2.579

  Dominion in¦terdicted the Pope himself.
• * 2.580

  Caus. 33. quaest. 2. ¶ Inter haec.
• * 2.581

  Ca••s. 33. quaest. 8. ¶ De Episc.

  No clergimen may vse the sword no not by the Popes authoritie.
• * 2.582

  2. Cor. 10.
• * 2.583

  Ad solitar. vitā agentes. Ambros. lib. 5. Epist. 33.
• * 2.584

  The seruants of Christ may haue no earth¦ly kingdome, since their ma∣ster had none.

  Iohn. 8. Matth. 10. 2. Tim. 2.
• * 2.585

  Distinct. 96. ¶ Cum. ad verum.
• * 2.586

  A Bishop may not vsurp an Emperours name, much lesse his sword
• * 2.587

  Distinct. 10. ¶ Quoniam idē. Cyprian wri∣teth to Iulian an 100. yeares before Iulian was borne.

  The Disci∣ples of Christ straitly char∣ged not to medle with Princely swords.
• * 2.588

  The sworde hath beene, may be, and should be vsed for that which is good in al spi¦rituall things and causes.
• * 2.589

  The oth clea∣red.
• * 2.590

  Their absur∣dities retur∣ned on their owne heades.
• * 2.591

  The Popes power ouer Princes vsur∣ped.
• * 2.592

  Rom. 13.

  Supreme is a manifest de∣duction out of S. Paul.
• * 2.593

  Supreme ouer Persons, not ouer things.
• * 2.594

  We may not limit where we will obey the sword, & where not.
• * 2.595

  Where they may com∣maund, we must obey.

  We may not resist them, but with reue∣rence indure them, though they cōmand against God and his truth. Heathen Ty∣raunts had power of the sword ouer Christ and his Apostles.
• * 2.596

  Christ sub∣mitted him∣selfe to the Magistrate.
• * 2.597

  So Paul & Pe∣ter both did and taught.
• * 2.598

  1. Pet. 4.
• * 2.599

  Rom. 13.
• * 2.600

  Whom we must indure in that which is euill, those must we obey in that which is good.

  Aug. Epist. 50. Idem Epist. 166.
• * 2.601

  The summe of the do∣ctrine which we teach con∣cerning the Princes su∣premacie.
• * 2.602

  The Iesuites iestes where∣with they mocke the Reader.
• * 2.603

  THE DI∣RECTION of PRIN∣CES VNTO TRVETH.
• * 2.604

  Princes must take good care to come by faithfull di∣rection.
• * 2.605

  The right di∣rectors vnto truth must be discerned by their doctrine not by their dignitie.
• * 2.606

  No mortall man may
• * 2.607

  Iohn. 14.
• * 2.608

  1. Iohn. 5.
• * 2.609

  Iohn. 5. & 8. De Nuptijs ad Valentin. lib. 2. ••ap. 33.
• * 2.610

  Optat. lib. 5. ad ••ermenianum.
• * 2.611

  Iohn. 17.

  Bishops no iudges of the word of God.

  The church is not iudge of the Scriptures

  Iohn. 10.
• * 2.612

  Iames 4.

  Aust. in Psal. 2.
• * 2.613

  Idem de vera religione, ca. 31.
• * 2.614

  Idem confess. lib. 13. cap. 23.
• * 2.615

  Contra Cresc. lib. 2. cap. 31.
• * 2.616

  Idem Epist. 19. ad Hieronym.
• * 2.617

  Iudging taken for discerning
• * 2.618

  Onely God must limit what is truth, & what error.
• * 2.619

  To discerne truth belon∣geth to all. God willeth all men to trie spirites.

  1. Iohn. 4.
• * 2.620

  Matth. 7.

  And to dis∣cerne false teachers.
• * 2.621

  Iohn. 10.
• * 2.622

  The people must discerne teachers by their doctrine

  1. Corinth. 10. 1. Corinth. 11.
• * 2.623

  Matth. 24. Colos. 8. Ephes. 5. 1. Iohn 3.
• * 2.624

  Heb. 5. 1. Corinth. 14.

  Orig in Je•• •••• Naue. hom. 2.

  The Fathers referred them selues to the iudgement of the hearers.
• * 2.625

  Ambros. Epi. li. 5. orat. in Aux.
• * 2.626

  Luke. 10.
• * 2.627

  Matt. 10.
• * 2.628

  The people haue libertie to discerne, and charge to beware sedu∣cers.
• * 2.629

  Matth. 24.
• * 2.630

  Matth. 23.
• * 2.631

  The people not bound to beleeue the Pharisees do∣ctrine, except it accorded to the law of God.
• * 2.632

  Aug. in Iohan. tractat. 46.
• * 2.633

  Matth. 16.

  Ibidem vers. 11••
• * 2.634

  1. Iohn. 4.
• * 2.635

  1. Thes. 5.
• * 2.636

  Rom. 12. Philip. 1. 1. Corinth. 2.

  The whole Scriptures giue the peo∣ple leaue to discerne the truth and re∣quire them so to do.
• * 2.637

  Princes haue the same li∣bertie to dis∣cerne & trie spirites that priuate men haue.

  The former precepts com∣prise the Prince aswell as the people.

  Heb. 13.
• * 2.638

  Vers. 7.

  No man boūd to the Prea∣cher farther than he spea∣keth truth.
• * 2.639

  The Apostles tied to that condition.
• * 2.640

  1. Pet. 1.
• * 2.641

  1. Iohn. 1. 1. Corinth. 4.
• * 2.642

  Galat. 1.

  The Angels themselues li∣mited to that rule.
• * 2.643

  1. Corinth. 7.
• * 2.644

  1. Corinth. 17.
• * 2.645

  Chrysost. in 1. cap. 2. Epist. ad Timoth. hom. 2.
• * 2.646

  Tertul. de prae∣script. advers. haeretic••s.
• * 2.647

  Chrysost. operis imperfect. hom. 20. in 7. ca. Mat.

  Much more teachers that are but ser∣uantes of the law: and therfore boūd vnto the law.
• * 2.648

  Princes must obey Bishops because they speak in Gods name and not in their owne.
• * 2.649

  Act. 20.
• * 2.650

  Bishops haue commission to feede, not to rule their flocks.

  1. Pet. 5.
• * 2.651

  Iohn. 21.
• * 2.652

  They be su∣periour in teaching, not in power to commaund and punish.

  Their functiō is more per∣fect & excel∣lent because God worketh by their hands and mouthes.
• * 2.653

  Aug. contra Crescon. lib. 4. cap. 6.
• * 2.654

  Aug. in. Psa. 10
• * 2.655

  In 1. cap. 2. epist. ad. Tim. hom. 2.
• * 2.656

  De spiritu san. lib. 3. cap. 19.
• * 2.657

  1. Corin. 1.
• * 2.658

  1. Corin. 3
• * 2.659

  The word & sacramentes serue not to aduaunce the Preachers person.
• * 2.660

  The Prea∣chers cal for subiection & reuerence to their master, not to them∣selues.
• * 2.661

  2. Corinth. 4.
• * 2.662

  Mark. 10. ••. Corint. 9.
• * 2.663

  The trueth of God is tied to no certaine persons nor places.
• * 2.664

  Peters fayth is trueth in deede, but that must be taken out of his owne wri∣tings, not other mens reports.
• * 2.665

  No successour may be tru∣sted against or besides the Apostles wri∣tings.
• * 2.666

  No poynt of fayth vnwrit∣ten.
• * 2.667

  Rom. 10.
• * 2.668

  Basil. in sermo∣ne de fide.
• * 2.669

  Idem in Ethici•• defini••. 8.
• * 2.670

  Hilar. ad Con∣stantium Au∣gust.
• * 2.671

  Idem de Trinit. lib. 9.
• * 2.672

  Hieron. aduer∣sus Helnidium. Idē in Psal. 86.
• * 2.673

  Tertul. de prae∣script. aduers. haeretico••.
• * 2.674

  Idem aduersus Hermogenē.
• * 2.675

  Ambros. de virginibus, li. 3.
• * 2.676

  Ireneus, lib. 3. cap. 1.
• * 2.677

  Cyril. de recta fide ad Reginas lib. 2.

  August. de Pas∣toribus, cap. 11. Idem contra literas Petilia∣ni lib. 3. cap. 6. Caus. 11. quaest. 3. § si is qui preaest.
• * 2.678

  No person nor place may be trusted in matters of faith besides and without the scriptures. The best di∣rection for Princes is the word of God.

  Psal. 118.
• * 2.679

  Deut. 17.
• * 2.680

  Deut. 12.
• * 2.681

  Esai. 8.
• * 2.682

  Luk. 16.
• * 2.683

  Hieron. Cap. 1. in epist. ad Galatas. Tertullian. de praescriptionib.
• * 2.684

  Tertullian. v•• supra. Heretikes therfore co∣uet a shew of scriptures because they be the groūds of all trueth. No tribunall on earth to the which trueth is fastned. Where trueth is in doubt the Church is in more doubt.
• * 2.685

  The shep∣heards voice is not knowē by the sheepe, but the sheep by hearing the sheep∣heards voice.
• * 2.686

  Iohn 10.
• * 2.687

  Apolog. Cap. 4. sect. 28. Succession is no sure dire∣ction vnto trueth. Ireneus, lib. 4. Cap. 43.
• * 2.688

  Cap. 44.
• * 2.689

  Cap. 45.
• * 2.690

  Act. 20.
• * 2.691

  Mat. 7.
• * 2.692

  2. Pet. 2.
• * 2.693

  2. Cor. 11.
• * 2.694

  2. Cor. 11.
• * 2.695

  Bishops haue beene here∣tikes.
• * 2.696

  Bishops assē∣bled may erre as wel as Bi∣shops seuered.

  Mat. 18.
• * 2.697

  Two or three haue the same promise of assistance that two or three hūdred haue.
• * 2.698

  Councels may erre.
• * 2.699

  Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5.
• * 2.700

  Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 9.
• * 2.701

  Euag. li. 3. ca. 4.
• * 2.702

  Epist. 55 ad Proropium.
• * 2.703

  A generall Councel doth not differ frō a particular but only in number of persons and places.

  Vide distinct. 16 § sexta § primo.
• * 2.704

  Tomo concil. primo.
• * 2.705

  Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 2.
• * 2.706

  Idem li. 2. c. 36. Tomo concilior. primo.
• * 2.707

  A generall Councel er∣ring the Church doth not erre.
• * 2.708

  A Councell may be re∣uersed by the rest that be present or absent.

  Sozo. li. 1. ca. 23.
• * 2.709

  Sozo. li. 2. ca. 25.
• * 2.710

  Sozo. li. 4. ca. 9.
• * 2.711

  Leo epist. 52. ad Anatholium.
• * 2.712

  Ibidem.
• * 2.713

  Their own fel∣lowes haue consessed that general coun∣cels might er.

  Panor. de elect. & electi potesta∣te ¶ signifi∣casti.
• * 2.714

  Panorm. Ibidē.
• * 2.715

  A generall councel is not the Church.
• * 2.716

  Pigh. hierarch. ecclesiast. lib. 6. cap. 5 & 4.

  Pighius is earnest that general Coū∣cels haue er∣red in decisiō of faithes.

  Lib. 6. Cap. 7.
• * 2.717

  Lib. 6. Cap. 13.
• * 2.718

  August. de bap∣tist. lib. 2 cap. 3.

  S. Augustine confesseth that councels may erre.
• * 2.719

  Ibidem.
• * 2.720

  The second Councell of Ephesus was generall.
• * 2.721

  Astio. 1.
• * 2.722

  Euagrius li. 1. Cap. 10.

  Reperitur chal∣cedonens. con∣cil. actio. 1.
• * 2.723

  Chalced. concil. actio. 1.
• * 2.724

  Ecclesiasticall iudges are of∣ten deceiued.

  Contra Crescon. lib. 2. cap. 21.
• * 2.725

  August. epist. 167.
• * 2.726

  August. contra Maximinum lib. 3. cap. 14.
• * 2.727

  Ibidem lib. 3 cap. 14.

  The Arrians not bound to the authori∣tie of the Ni∣cene councel.
• * 2.728

  The Councell of Ariminum was generall.
• * 2.729

  Socrat. lib. 2. Cap. 37.
• * 2.730

  Ibidem epistol•• Synodi Arimin. ad Constant.
• * 2.731

  Hierom. aduers. Luciferanos.
• * 2.732

  In the Coun∣cell of Arimi∣num was the communion of the whole worlde.
• * 2.733

  The Councell of Ariminum erred.
• * 2.734

  Hioron. aduers. Luciferanos.
• * 2.735

  Hieron. aduers. Luciferano••
• * 2.736

  Ibidem.
• * 2.737

  Epist. 118.
• * 2.738

  Epist. 119.
• * 2.739

  Onely the scriptures ca•• not erre.
• * 2.740

  Rom 3. Epist. 112. ad Paulin.
• * 2.741

  August. contra Faustum Ma∣nicheum, li. 11. cap. 5.
• * 2.742

  In all other writings the reader is free and not bound to be∣leeue them. August. de na∣tura & gratia contra Pelag. cap. 61. Ibidem.
• * 2.743

  We may iudge freely of Councels.

  Contra Faustū lib. 11. cap. 5.
• * 2.744

  epist. 48.
• * 2.745

  De pecca. me∣ritis & remiss. lib. 1. Cap. 22.
• * 2.746

  Contra Cresco. lib. 2. Cap. 3.3.
• * 2.747

  S. Augustine refused coun∣cels both with him and against him.

  De vnitate ec∣clesiae, Cap. 16.
• * 2.748

  Ibidem.
• * 2.749

  Hilar. contra Auxentium & Arrianos.
• * 2.750

  Princes are not bound to Councels.
• * 2.751

  Christ hath a vicar on earth that cā not er, which is the holy Ghost.
• * 2.752

  Tertul. de prae∣scriptio. aduers. haereticos.

  Idem de virgi∣nibus velan∣dis.
• * 2.753

  The Pope neuer called Christs vicar but by his own flatte∣rers.
• * 2.754

  The Pope may erre and can cōmaund neither Prince nor people.
• * 2.755

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of Luke.
• * 2.756

  One brother may confirme an other.
• * 2.757

  Psal. 51.
• * 2.758

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke. Christ praied for Peter not that he should not erre, but that he shuld not vtterly perish. Chrysost. in Ioh. homil. 72. Idem in Mat. homil. 83.
• * 2.759

  Beda in cap. ••2. Luce.
• * 2.760

  To deny Christ is worse than to be decei∣ued in some point of saith.
• * 2.761

  2. Peter 2.
• * 2.762

  Reuelat. 2.
• * 2.763

  Peter lost his faith when he denied christ.
• * 2.764

  Ambros. sermo. 46.
• * 2.765

  Idem. sermo. 47.
• * 2.766

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke.
• * 2.767

  Leo. sermo. 3. in anniuersari•• die assumptio∣nis ad Pontifi∣catum.

  Leo corrup∣ted by the Rhemists.
• * 2.768

  Chrysost. in Mat. homil. 83.

  Why Christ praied for Peter by name.

  Ibidem paulo ante.
• * 2.769

  Christ praied for all.

  August. quaest. ex nouo Testa∣mēto, quaest. 75.
• * 2.770

  Iohn 17.
• * 2.771

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of Luke.
• * 2.772

  Iohn. 16.

  Christs pro∣mise to al his Apostles.
• * 2.773

  The Rhemish Testament in the 22. of Luke.

  Lib. q. noui Testa. quaest. 75. tomo 4.
• * 2.774

  The wordes are inclosed with two lines in Erasmus e∣dition, & not found in the old printes.
• * 2.775

  Praepositus & Praelatus com¦mon names to all Bishops.
• * 2.776

  Ambros. in Psal. 43.
• * 2.777

  Ibidem.
• * 2.778

  1. Tim. 1.
• * 2.779

  1. Tim. 2.
• * 2.780

  Philip. 1.
• * 2.781

  Ambros. de dig. Sacer. cap. 2.
• * 2.782

  Mat. 24.
• * 2.783

  Lib. 1. Epist. 3.
• * 2.784

  Aug. de ciuit. Dei lib. 20. ca. 9
• * 2.785

  Idem in Iohan. tract. 46.
• * 2.786

  This is the Rhemists cō∣mon vse in their Testa∣mēt tothwack in a number of Fathers names to no purpose.
• * 2.787

  We confesse the prea∣chinges and writinges of Peter and all the rest after the receiuing of the holie Ghost, were free from er∣ror: will they claime that for the Pope?
• * 2.788

  The Rhemish Test. 22. Lucae.
• * 2.789

  The Rhemish Test. 22. Lucae.
• * 2.790

  A noble lie of the Rhemists forced on all the Fathers with one breath.
• * 2.791

  Epist. 190.
• * 2.792

  They say all the fathers applied this to the Pope, & produce none but poore Bernard.
• * 2.793

  Cyprian fou∣ly wrested to make for the Pope.
• * 2.794

  The Rhemish Test. 22. Lucae. Cyp. Epi. 55.
• * 2.795

  The Romanes import the people, and not the Pope.
• * 2.796

  Rom. 1.
• * 2.797

  Cypriā spake of all the Ro∣manes, & not of the Bishop of Rome.
• * 2.798

  Rom. 1.
• * 2.799

  The true mea∣ning of Cy∣prian.
• * 2.800

  Cypr. lib. 1. Ep. 3

  May not, or ought not haue accesse.
• * 2.801

  What non po∣••est doth signi∣fie.
• * 2.802

  De regulis iuris 68. In glossa.
• * 2.803

  In senten. Conc. Carth. sentent. 1. Cyprianus.
• * 2.804

  Lib. 1. Epist. 3.
• * 2.805

  De orat. ad Att.
• * 2.806

  Gen. 18.
• * 2.807

  Gen. 34.
• * 2.808

  Gen. 37.
• * 2.809

  Gen. 44.
• * 2.810

  Iudic. 11.
• * 2.811

  2. Reg. 2.
• * 2.812

  3. Reg. 2.
• * 2.813

  3. Reg. 13.
• * 2.814

  Luke. 11.
• * 2.815

  Luke 14.
• * 2.816

  Luke 16.
• * 2.817

  Ioan. 6.
• * 2.818

  Ioan. 7.
• * 2.819

  1. Corinth. 12.
• * 2.820

  2. Corinth. 13.
• * 2.821

  Reuel. 2.
• * 2.822

  Cyprians wordes haue no agreement with the Ie∣suites sense.
• * 2.823

  Cyp. lib. 1. Epi. 3.
• * 2.824

  These be plai∣ner words for the people than the for∣mer be for the Pope.
• * 2.825

  Cyprian affir∣meth of the Bishop of Rome, that he did erre.
• * 2.826

  Cypr. ad Pom. contr. Epi. Steph Ibidem.
• * 2.827

  S. Paul assu∣reth the Ro∣mane church that it might erre.

  Rom. 11.
• * 2.828

  Origen. lib. 8. in cap. 11. ad Rom.
• * 2.829

  The Apostle threatneth not things im∣possible.
• * 2.830

  Hierom wre∣sted by the Iesuites as Cy¦prian was be∣fore.

  The Rhemish Testament vp on the 1. to the Romanes.
• * 2.831

  Hieron. Apo•••••• aduers. Ruff. 3.
• * 2.832

  The places of Scripture before allead∣ged if you weigh them, proue al these significations.
• * 2.833

  The true in∣tent of Hie∣roms wordes.
• * 2.834

  Hiero. ad Prin∣cipiam Marc. Epitapha. tom. 1.
• * 2.835

  That come to passe in Hie∣roms time which the Ie∣suites would proue to be impossible.
• * 2.836

  The Rhemish. Testament is an heape of Fathers abu∣sed & wrested to depraue the text of the holy Ghost.
• * 2.837

  The Iesuites reasons to make the Pope free frō error.

  The Rhemish Test. 22. Lucae.
• * 2.838

  Moses chaire had no such priuilege that it could not erre.
• * 2.839

  Deut. 17.
• * 2.840

  Malach. 2.
• * 2.841

  Moses chaire did erre.
• * 2.842

  Ierem. 18.
• * 2.843

  Ezech. 7. 4. Kings 16.
• * 2.844

  Esai. 28. Would you haue clearer wordes that Moses chaire did erre? Matth. 16. Matth. 15. Mark. 7.
• * 2.845

  Matth. 22.
• * 2.846

  Act. 23.
• * 2.847

  Act. 5.
• * 2.848

  Rom. 3.

  It is presump∣tion against God to make any man free from errour without suffi∣cient proofe. Christs pro∣mise to Peter pertaineth not to the Pope: & if it did, it maketh him not free from errour.
• * 2.849

  Matth. 28.

  Christ is with euerie of the faithfull to the worldes end, & yet the faithfull may erre.
• * 2.850

  They euer dreame and neuer proue that the Pope is head of the church.
• * 2.851

  Ephes. 3.
• * 2.852

  The elect may erre, but not perish in their error.
• * 2.853

  Cyp. lib. 2. Ep. 3.
• * 2.854

  Aug. Epist. 48.
• * 2.855

  De Baptis. lib. 4. cap. 5.
• * 2.856

  Aug. de Baptis. lib. 2. cap. 5.
• * 2.857

  All men may erre.
• * 2.858

  Aug. Epist. 19.
• * 2.859

  It is vngodly pride to think any man free from error.
• * 2.860

  Iohn. 16.
• * 2.861

  Ibidem.

  The Apostles were guided by a speciall gift of Gods spirit, that in preaching and writing they should not erre.
• * 2.862

  The Rhemish Test. 16. Iohn.
• * 2.863

  How hand∣somely the Iesuites plaie with Scrip∣tures.
• * 2.864

  Iohn. 16.
• * 2.865

  A miter is no buckler a∣gainst error.
• * 2.866

  Caus. 24. quaest. 1. §. A recta in gloss. ¶ Nouitae∣tibus.
• * 2.867

  What church can not erre.
• * 2.868

  That the whole church can not erre, is no helpe for the Pope and his Car∣dinales.
• * 2.869

  Councels and Popes may erre though the whole church do not erre.
• * 2.870

  Alfon. aduers. haereses lib. 1. cap. 4.
• * 2.871

  The wiser sort of Papists cō∣demne them for flatterers that say the Pope can not erre.
• * 2.872

  Sub prel•• As∣censiano, anno Dom. 1534.
• * 2.873

  Alfon. li. 1. ca. 4. Ca••s. 24. quaest. 1. ¶. A recta. in gloss.
• * 2.874

  De electio. ¶ significasti.
• * 2.875

  Lyra in ca. 16. Matth.
• * 2.876

  Aug. de Anco. de potestat. Ec∣clesiast. quaest. 1.
• * 2.877

  Anton. part. 3. tit. 22. cap. 3 ¶. 3
• * 2.878

  In lib. de Pote∣stat. Papae cita∣tur ab Anton.
• * 2.879

  Gerson in trac. An liceat in ca••s. fidei à Pō∣tifice appellare.
• * 2.880

  Concil. Basilien. epist. Synodalis 3. de authorita∣te Concil. supra Papam.
• * 2.881

  Aen. Sylu. de gestis Conc. Ba∣sil. lib. 1.
• * 2.882

  Caiet. de au∣thoritate Papae & Conc. cap. 26. & 27.
• * 2.883

  Alfon. lib. 1. ca. 2.
• * 2.884

  Theosoph. lib. 4. cap. 32.
• * 2.885

  Then surely masters you do but flatter when you make the Pope free frō errour.
• * 2.886

  Erasmus annot. in 1. Cor. ex cap. 7.
• * 2.887

  And yet the Iesuites make it an high point of their faith.

  The Iesuites re••use Coun∣cels and Fa∣thers, because they will not acknowledge the Pope hath erred. Clements er∣ronious de∣cree.

  Caus. 12. quaest. 1. § lectissimus.
• * 2.888

  Plato dialog. 4. de Repub.
• * 2.889

  That althings ought to be common a∣mong chri∣stians is a grosse error.
• * 2.890

  The Bishop of Rome a Mon∣tanist.
• * 2.891

  Tertul. aduer. Praxeam.
• * 2.892

  The Bishop of Rome an Ido∣later.

  Marcellini Pa∣pae condemnatio tomo concil. 1.
• * 2.893

  The Bishop of Rome an Arrian.
• * 2.894

  Ruff. li. 1. ca. 27. Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 37.

  Theodoret. lib. 2 cap. 17.
• * 2.895

  Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 17.
• * 2.896

  Athanas. epist. ad solitar. vitā agentes.
• * 2.897

  Ex pontificali Damasi in vita Liberij.
• * 2.898

  Hieron. de ecclesiast script. in Fortuna∣tiano.

  The Iesuites neglect al this to saue the Pope frō error.

  Hieron. ad chronicon Euse. adiectio.
• * 2.899

  Omission in one writer is no disproofe in an other.
• * 2.900

  Martin. Polon. in Liberi••. Vincentius specul. histor. lib. 15. Cap. 11. & 12.
• * 2.901

  Idē in Damaso. Beleeue none but your selfe, & then you may be sure the Pope shall not erre.
• * 2.902

  Honorius died an he∣retike.
• * 2.903

  6. Synod. actio. ti••. 12.13.16.17.18.
• * 2.904

  Actio. 12.
• * 2.905

  Actio. 13.
• * 2.906

  And for no cause but ••or that it condē∣neth the pope as an here∣tike.
• * 2.907

  6. Synod. actio. 18. habet haec epist. Leon. 2. ad Constant. Au∣gustum.
• * 2.908

  Nicen. Synod. 2. Actio. 3.
• * 2.909

  Nice. Synod. 2. actio. 7.
• * 2.910

  8. Synod. acti. 7.
• * 2.911

  If you would forge against your selues, how much more for your selues?
• * 2.912

  Though Ho∣norius were innocent, yet three general Councels confesse the Pope might erre.
• * 2.913

  If one did er, others may.
• * 2.914

  What reason we should be∣leeue late Papists speak∣ing in fauour of the Pope against the ancient stories▪
• * 2.915

  How Papists esteeme an∣tiquitie and vniuersalitie whē the Pope is touched.
• * 2.916

  Vigilius an heretike.
• * 2.917

  Liberati breui∣arium, cap. 22.
• * 2.918

  Ex libro Pon∣tificali in vi•••• Vigilij.
• * 2.919

  Vigilius a lewd Pope.
• * 2.920

  Epist. Syluerij Papae ad vigil. ••omo Concil. 2.
• * 2.921

  Pontificale in vita Vigilij. Vigilius draw∣en by the neck round about Con∣stantinople.
• * 2.922

  Distinct. 19. § Anastasius.
• * 2.923

  Ibidem glossa ¶ abegerunt. Dist. 19. § A∣nastasius. Ibidem glossa ¶ diuino.
• * 2.924

  The See was not free from error, when the men did erre, that sate in the See.
• * 2.925

  The Rhemish Testament 22. Luke.
• * 2.926

  The office i•• not the worse though the mā be naught
• * 2.927

  He that may erre cannot be supreme iudge ouer the whole Church.
• * 2.928

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke.
• * 2.929

  Rom. 10.
• * 2.930

  Faith faileth where the hart erreth.
• * 2.931

  The Pope may erre with hart & mouth: but his Court, the Iesuits say can not erre. Luke. 22. Oraui pro te: what place doth te signifie?
• * 2.932

  This is rather a plague vpon Peter & his successours, than a praier for them.
• * 2.933

  How the Iesu∣ites const••r Christs wordes.
• * 2.934

  The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke.
• * 2.935

  Of a particu∣lar & extraor∣dinarie fact, no generall rule can be gathered.
• * 2.936

  God ruled Caiphas mouth a∣gainst his hart.
• * 2.937

  Cyril in Iohan. lib. 8. cap. 3.
• * 2.938

  Ibidē li. 8. ca. 2.
• * 2.939

  The diuel possessed Cai∣phas hart, but God ordered his wordes.
• * 2.940

  1. Kings. 24. Mat. 27.
• * 2.941

  Luke. 8. ••. Iohn. 11.
• * 2.942

  God can doe the like when he will.
• * 2.943

  Caiphas con∣demned our Sauiour for a blasphemer. Matth. 26.
• * 2.944

  Christs pro∣mise was not made to peter sitting in ••udgement.
• * 2.945

  Erronious Decretals.
• * 2.946

  The decretals of Celestinus lately pared and his error left out.
• * 2.947

  Alfons. aduers. haereses, li. ••. cap. 4.
• * 2.948

  Decretal. lib. 4. de diuortiis § quanto .Ibidem ¶ praedecessor.
• * 2.949

  Decretal. lib. 4. de sponsa duorū § licet praeter. To decide of marriage a∣gainst the truth is an er∣ror in faith. Sixti Decretae. lib. 5. tit. 12. § exijt.

  Extrauag. Ioh. 22. tit. 14. § cū inter nōnullos. Ibidem.

  He should haue told vs what right they might haue besides the propriety. Christ and his Apostles renounced the proprietie and reserued the vse:

  Is not this good diuini∣tie••
• * 2.950

  Extra. § cum inter nonnullos gloss. ¶ declara∣mus.
• * 2.951

  Expressè contrarium in••uit.
• * 2.952

  De consec. dist. 2. § Ego Beren.
• * 2.953

  Ibidem ¶ den∣tibus.
• * 2.954

  A sober vn∣derstāding to expound the wordes clean contrarie to the text.
• * 2.955

  Ibidē ¶ quā Do∣minus Nicolaus & haec sexta Synodus tenēdā tradidit, mihi∣que firmauit.
• * 2.956

  They print no more than they list and mind to de∣fend, & then they aske vs what errors we find in the Popes decres. You might as well say: the Pope may er in his shoes, but not in his slippers: or in the shade, but not in the sun¦shine.
• * 2.957

  We cā propose thē a thousād Sees, which they shal ne∣uer proue to haue erred in open Consi∣stories by defi∣nitiue sentēce. Heretiks euer condemned for their writ∣ings & preach¦ings, not for their defini∣tiue sentēces.
• * 2.958

  Though no Pope had er∣red, yet they may erre, and so long they can be no iudges of faith.
• * 2.959

  The highest court in earth may misse the trueth.
• * 2.960

  The Church is directed by the word and spirit of christ not by the Popes con∣sistorie.
• * 2.961

  Their owne Church 1400. yeres after Christ stoutly auoucheth the Pope might erre.
• * 2.962

  Distinct. 40. § Si Papa.
• * 2.963

  Abba•• Vrsper∣gēs. anno 1080.
• * 2.964

  Fasciculus rerū sciendarum in vita & gestis Hildebrandi.

  Ibidem.
• * 2.965

  Matth. Paris. in Henrico 3. sub anno 1253.
• * 2.966

  Massei Chronic. in anno 1409.
• * 2.967

  Naucler. Chro∣nograph. gene∣ratio. 47. anno 1409.
• * 2.968

  Gen••brard. li. 2 Chronograph. anno 1414.
• * 2.969

  Concil. Cōstan. sessio. 37.
• * 2.970

  Concil. Constan. sessio. 11.
• * 2.971

  Concil. Basil. sessio. 34. anno 1439.

  Articuli Pari∣sienses.
• * 2.972

  A Iudge must haue skill to discerne and power to cō∣maund.
• * 2.973

  The Pope hath neither.
• * 2.974

  Erre he may.
• * 2.975

  Power to cō∣maund or compel he hath none.
• * 2.976

  He that wil be iudge of truth must proue his claime.
• * 2.977

  All that we giue vnto prin¦ces is either to be obeyed or indured.