The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

¶ Of ciuill Officies in Ecclesiasticall persons. Tract. 23. (Book 23)

A triall of the places alleaged by the Admonition, agaynst such ciuill offices as are exercised by Ecclesiasticall persons in this realme.

Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 165. Sect. 3.

The places alleaged by the Admonition to prone that ministers of the church may not inter∣meddle with ciuill functions (one onely excepted) are well and fitly alleaged: and most of them vsed to that ende of writers, which if I should name, (*) 1.1 all would confesse, that they are such as with whom M. Doctor is not worthy to be so much as spoken of the same day.

Io. Whitgifte▪

This is more than modestie would suffer, and tootoo outrageous: for whatsoeuer the worthinesse of these men is otherwise, yet am Ia minister of the woorde as well as they: I am a member of the Church of Christ as well as they: I am bought with his bloud as well as they: & therfore to say, that I am not worthie to be so much as spokē of the same day wherein they are named: is but extréeme immodestie, & passing contempt. There is not so much attributed to Iesus Christ: nor the Popes flatterers, did neuer so excessiuely extoll him. Are they so woorthie that a man may not be spoken of the same day that they are named? who be they trowe we, or what is their names? But belike you are afrayde to name them, least by speaking of me the same day you shoulde do vnto them some great dishonour: in your iudgement they are better than God him∣selfe, for the simplest that is may be named the same day that God is. In déede a pretie cloake to couer your vayne bragging, for I thinke you woulde haue named them, if you had knowne them. But to the matter.

Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision.

Admonition.

Moreouer, in that they haue (s 1.2 ciuill offices ioyned to the Ecclesiasticall, it is agaynst the worde of God. As for an Archbishop to be a Lorde president, a Lord Bishop to be a Countie Pa∣latine, a prelate of the Garter, who hath much to do at S▪ Georges feast when the Bible is caried before the Procession in the crosses place, a Iustice of peace, or Iustice of Quorum, an high Com∣missioner. &c. And therfore they haue their prysons, as Clinkes, G〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t: houses, Colehouses, towres and 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉astles, which is also agaynst the Scriptures. This is not to haue keyes but swordes, and playne tokens they are, that they exercise that which they would so fayne seeme to wante, I meane dominion ouer theyr brethren.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 214. Sect. 2.

To proue that ciuill offices ioyned to the Ecclesiasticall is against the worde of God, first you note Luke. 9. verse. 60. 61. where it is thus writtē. And Iesus sayd vnto him, let the dead burie the dead, but go thou and preach the king∣dome of God. Then an other sayd I wil follow thee Lord, but let me first go bid them farevvell vvhich are at my house. How conclude you any thing of these places against ciuill offices in Ecclesiastical persons? Christs meaning in this place is to teache vs (I meane all Christians) that when he calleth vs, we ought not to be hindred from following (and that forthwith) by any excuse of doing dutie towards our friends, or respect of worldly commoditie, or for feare of any payne or trouble, and this is spoken generally to all Christians, and not alone to any one kinde of men.

T. C. Pag. 165. Sect. 4.

For the first place if so be that the minister ought rather to leaue necessarie duties of burying* 1.3 his father, and saluting his friendes vndone, than that he shoulde not accomplishe his ministerie to the full, much more he ought not to take vpon him those things, which are not onely not necessarie dueties, but as it shall appeare, do in no case belong vnto him. And although it may be applied to all Christians, yet it doth most properly belong vnto the ministers.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is no answere to that which I haue sayde: for I say that the meaning of Christ in this place is, that when we are called to eternall life by him we ought not to protracte the time, nor to séeke any delayes, but leaue all and follow him: this is the meaning of Christ, & this is the summe of my Answere: and to this you say no∣thing: but make a new collection, that the minister ought rather to leaue necessarie duties of burying his father. &c. which (though it be not the direct sense of this place) yet I graunt it to be true: for such ciuill offices as I allow in Ecclesiasticall persons are helpes for them to do their duties. Wherefore as this place is vnaptly applied by the Admoni∣tion, so is it vnanswered by you, & it may as well be vsed to debarre anyother Chri∣stians from ciuill functions, as ministers of the woorde.

Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 215. Sect. 1..

Secondly, for the same purpose you vse Luke. 12. verse. 14. where Christ speaking to him that sayde vnto him, Master bid my brother de∣uide the inheritance vvith me, answereth on this sorte, Man vvho made me a iudge or a deuider ouer you? Christ came in deede to be iudged, & not to iudge, he came to worke the worke of our redemption, not to decide controuersies touching landes and possessions. But will you therfore take from Christian men authoritie to iudge? for this exāple of Christ can no more be applied to Bishops than it may be to kings, bicause the doings of Christ is a patterne for all Christians, and yet Christians may iudge matters, and decide controuersies amongst their brethren. Looke. 1. Cor. 6. The Anabaptists vse this text for one* 1.4 of their reasons to condemne magistratie among Christians: & ther∣fore a very learned and late writer, in his exposition of this place, writeth thus: Hinc colligitur quantopere insaniant, qui ex hoc loco magistratum inter Chri∣stianos damnant: nam Christus non argumentatur à re ipsa, tanquàm profana sit, sed à vocatione sua, quòd missus sit in alium finem, tametsi res erat per se satis sancta & pia. Hereof may it be gathered, hovv greatly they dote vvhich condemne magistrates amongst Christians by this place, for Christe doth not reason of the thing it selfe, as though it vvere profane, but of his ovvne vocation, bicause he vvas sent to an other ende, although the thing of it selfe is holy and good.

T. C. Pag. 155. Sect. 4. & vlt.

And as for the other place of Luke touching our sauiour Christes refusall to deuide the inheri∣taunce* 1.5 betwene the brethren, it is moste aptly alleaged to this purpose. For although our sauiour Christ doth not there take away from men authoritie to iudge, yet he sheweth thereby sufficiently, that it belongeth not vnto the ministers of the worde, to entermeddle in y^e iudgement of ciuil causes. For our sauiour Christ framed that answere hauing respect to the boundes of his calling.

For as he beyng minister of the Gospell did all those things which were perteyning to his mi∣nisterie: so by refusing this office of iudgement in ciuill causes, he gaue to vnderstand, that it did not appertayne vnto the compasse of that office, which he exercised, which was y^e ministerie. And there∣fore it is altogether out of season that M. Doctor here alleageth, that y^e Anabaptistes vse this rea∣son to proue that Christians may not haue magistrates. For howe doth this follow, that bycause this place of S. Luke proueth not, that we ought to haue no Christian magistrates, that therfore it proueth not, that the minister should be no magistrate, as if there could be no ciuill magistrates, onlesse ministers of the worde were. And the place which he alleageth out of the learned man, doth not only, not make any thing for him, but doth quite ouerthrow his cause. For he sayth that our sa∣uiour Christ did not refuse this as a thing in it selfe vnlawfull, but bycause it did not agree with his vocation. Now the vocation of our sauiour Christ, was to be a minister of the Gospell, there∣fore it doth not agree with the vocation of a minister of the gospell to iudge or to intermedle in ci∣uill gouernment. And if M. Doctor had bene so studious of M. Caluins workes, as by his often* 1.6 allegation of him, he would make the world beleue, he might haue redde in him this sentence cited for this purpose, to proue that the ministers haue not to do in ciuill thinges.

Io. Whitgifte.

Neyther do you héere replie to my Answere, for I tolde you that Christ came to be iudged, not to iudge in matters of lands and possessions: I tolde you likewise that this example of Christ perteyneth no more to Bishops than it dothe to Kings, and therefore can no fitlyer be by you applied agaynst Bishops, than by the Anabaptistes agaynst Christian Magistrates. To all this in effect you haue sayde nothing. Your owne collection is soone answered. Fyrst, no man giueth to Bishops authoritie to iudge in matters of inheritance, for suche controuersies are to be decided by lawe, whiche hath other Iudges appoynted for it. Secondly, Christ spake this to declare that his kingdome was not of this worlde, but of the worlde to come, not earthly, but heauenly, not temporall, but eternall: and therefore he spake it touching his owne person onely, and not as a rule perteyning to other Christians. as the Anabaptists feyne. Thirdly, the authoritie in ciuill matters that is committed to ministers in* 1.7 this Churche, is committed vnto them by the Prince, for the better gouernment of the Churche, and the fuller satisfying of their duetie, consisting for the moste parte onely in punishing and correcting sinne. And lastly, it is not made a thing incident to the ministerie, or as parte of that office, but it is added as profitable, conuenient, and necessarie for the present state of the Churche, and fuller accomplishing of the ministers duetie.

I haue tolde you in my Answere to the Admonition, that this example of Christ dothe no more perteyne vnto Bishops, than to other Christians (whiche béeing true and vnconfuted by you) then dothe it followe that the Anabaptistes maye aswell al∣leage it agaynst other Christians, as you maye doe agaynst Bishops or Ministers.

The learned mans interpretation dothe well agrée with my cause: for Christ refu∣sed it, bicause he came to be iudged, and to suffer death, for the redemption of the world, which is the vocation that this learned man speaketh of, and is onely proper to Christ. I denie not but that M. Caluine may apply this texte to that purpose, but M. Caluine dothe expounde him selfe, writing vpon this same place, when he saythe, that euery man must respect his owne vocation, & quid illi sit aptum, and what is meete for it. Nowe the ciuill authoritie that Ecclesiasticall persons haue in this Churche, is meete for theer vocation: And therefore M. Caluine speaketh nothing agaynst it. In the same booke & chapter, he alleageth these words of Bernarde▪ whiche he writeth to Pope Eugenius of this matter: Ergo in criminibus non in possessionibus potestas vestra. &c. VVherefore your power is in offences, not in possessions. And this conclusion he brin∣geth in vpon the wordes of S. Luke chapter. 12.

I would not, as I sayde before, haue Bishops Iudges in controuersies of enheri∣tance,* 1.8 I doe not affirme that they may in the right of their ministerie, chalenge any ciuill authoritie, as the Bishop of Rome dothe. But forasmuche as the authoritie is in Criminibus, in offences, as Bernarde sayth, therfore if it please the Prince to giue it them, they may lawfully execute so muche authoritie ciuill, as shall further and helpe them in suppressing sinne. And this is agaynst nothing that M. Caluine hathe sayde. For M. Caluine and other learned wryters of this age, doe vse this place of S. Luke and suche like, agaynst the vsurpation of Romishe Bishops, chalenging suche au∣thoritie in ciuill matters as due vnto them, Iure diuino, and so placing them selues in Princes offices, dyd estéeme all their duetie towardes the Churche to consist there∣in, and dyd nothing else perteyning to the office of a Bishop. As for the authoritie that our Bishops haue in suche matters, I thinke that neyther M. Caluine, nor any other godly man can disallowe of it.

Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 215. Sect. 2.

In the thirde place you alleage Rom. 12. verse. 7. He that hathe an

office, let him vvayte on his office, or he that teacheth, on teaching. What is this to the purpose? He that hath an office, muste attende vpon his office, and he that teacheth, on teaching, therefore Bishops may* 1.9 not haue ciuill offices. The office of a Bishop is aswell to gouerne by discipline, as by preaching: this is a very simple argument.

T. C. Page. 166. Lin. 9.

Furthermore M. Doctor asketh what S. Paules place to the Romanes (where he wylleth* 1.10 that he which hath an office, must wayte of that office, he that teacheth of his teaching) maketh to this purpose. Surely M. Doctor very muche. Neyther can there be a place more properly* 1.11 alleaged, bothe for the very playnenesse of the wordes, and also for the circumstance of the place. For Saincte Paule speaketh there agaynst those, whiche woulde ouerreache their cal∣linges, and hauing certayne callinges, contented not them selues with them, but woulde haue an oare in euery mans boate, and would take more vpon them than they were able to doe, or the measure of their giftes woulde stretche vnto. And therefore sheweth that as the body is beste preserued when euery member thereof dothe his office, and destroyed when one member wyll take vpon it to doe the office of an other: so the Church is then best gouerned, when euery ecclesia∣sticall person keepeth him selfe within the limits of his calling, not medling with that whiche per∣teyneth vnto an other. But M. Doctor sayth, that the bishop gouerneth as well by discipline, as by preaching: so he dothe. But I pray you by what discipline? what a reason is this, he gouer∣neth by discipline, Ergo by ciuill discipline. You say in the next sentence, that the authors of the Ad∣monition eyther dote or dreame. But if these be your sharpe disputations when you are awake, surely they are very blunt when you dreame. But I had rather iudge the best, that M. Doctor was ouerwatched.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely M. T. C. it maketh nothing at all to that purpose, neyther doth S. Paul speake it to that ende: but he speaketh it to moue euery one diligently and truely to walke in his vocation and calling, and therfore in the same place he sayth, qui praeest in diligentia: and as I haue tolde you, this ciuill authoritie that I speake of, is not claymed, but committed: is no hinderance, but an helpe to the ecclesiasticall function.* 1.12 Neyther is this to vsurpe any other mans vocation, but duetifully to vse that office that is giuen vnto vs by the Prince, to helpe vs forwarde in our owne vocation, and calling.

An ecclesiasticall Pastor must vse that discipline that is appoynted vnto him by the Magistrate and orders of that Church whereof he is minister, be it ciuil or eccle∣siasticall, so that if the kinde of discipline vsed in that Church be ciuill, as it is in thys Church for diuers crymes, then dothe he gouerne by ciuill discipline, and the argument is good, neyther will you be able to answere it when you are best awake, howsoeuer I made it in my dreame, or béeing ouer watched.

Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 216. Sect. 1.

Fourthly, you cite. 1. Tim. 6. verse. 11. But thou O man of God, flee* 1.13 these things, and follovve after righteousnesse, godlynesse, fayth, loue, pa∣tience, and meekenesse Truely I thinke you dote, or else dreame, your applications of scripture be so straunge. What speaketh Paule heere agaynst ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons? He only willeth them in the person of Tim. to flee couetousnesse, and to followe ryghte∣ousnesse. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

This it that place that T. C. confesseth to be alleaged to no purpose: and therefore héere they are left to answere for thēselues, as they be in the most of their quotations.

Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 216. Sect. 2. 3.

The last text heere quoted is the. 2. Tim. 2. verse. 3. 4. Thou there∣fore* 1.14 suffer affliction as a good souldiour of Iesus Christ: no man that vvar∣reth entangleth him selfe vvith the affayres of this life, bicause he vvould please hym that hath chosen him to be a souldiour. This latter sentence is generall, and perteyneth to all men. The meaning is this, who∣soeuer would be a souldiour vnder Christ, muste leaue all worldly things, and followe him. It speaketh nothing eyther of ciuill or ec∣clesiasticall offices. For if you will knowe what he there meaneth by the affayres of this life, heare what M. Caluine sayth, writing* 1.15 vpon that place: per negotia vitae intelligit familiae administr 〈◊〉〈◊〉 cur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 occupationes: By the affayres of this life he vnderstandeth the care of gouer∣ning his familie, and other ordinary businesse.

If you will learne howe this place is to be applyed, the same M.* 1.16 Caluine teacheth you like wise in these wordes following: Nunc appli∣canda est comparatio ad rem praesentem, quod quisquis vult sub Christo mil t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 relictis omni∣bus mundi tricis & auocamentis se illi totum sua{que} studia addi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ere: Novve this compara∣tion is to be applied to the present purpose, that vvhosoeuer vvill playe the vvarriour vnder Christe, leauing all vvorldely matters and impedi∣ments, muste giue him selfe vvholly vnto him. This therefore is gene∣tall, and perteyneth to all Christians, but chiefly and especially to the ministers of the worde, who maye not occupie them selues in worldly businesse, as other men do: that is, they muste not be mar∣chaunts, husbandmen, craftes men, or hinder their vocation with* 1.17 suche lyke worldly affayres. As for suche ciuill offices as be com∣mitted to them, they be rather helpes to their vocation, than im∣pediments: for the office of a Iustice of peace, of an highe Commis∣sioner, and suche like, is to punishe vice and iniquitie, to see good or∣der kepte in the common wealth, aswell in matters touching reli∣gion, as other common and publike businesse. Wherefore as these offices be not meere ciuill, but partely ecclesiasticall, and be for dis∣cipline and correction of sinnes: so in my opinion they be most meete to be committed to some of the wysest and best of the Cleargie, to the ende that suche as by the word will not, by conuenient dysci∣pline may be cōpelled to do their dueties. Neyther are such offices to be accounted worldly affayres, but rather heauenly and spiri∣tuall, forasmuche as they serue to the mayntenance of religion and godlynesse, and to the suppressing of sinne and wickednesse. If it be true that Augustine sayth: Seruiunt Reges Christo, leges ferendo pro Christo. It is also true, Seruiunt Episcopi Christo, leges exequendo pro Christo.

T. C. Pag. 166. in the midst.

The last place whych is alleaged by the Admonition, is out of the Epistle to Tim. where it sheweth, that for so muche as the state of a minister, is as that of a souldiour, and therefore as the* 1.18 souldiour, to the ende he might the better please his captayne, and doe his seruice of warfare, quit∣teth all those things whych he loueth, and wherof otherwyfe he might haue care, and might enio〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 euen so the minister ought to dispatche him selfe, of all those things, whiche maye be any let to the office of his ministerie, although he might otherwyse lawfully vse them. And if so be for the per∣forming

of the ministerie to the full, he must quite those things whiche he may lawfully vse, howe muche more might the Admonition conclude, that he ought not to entangle him selfe with those things, which (out of the places of S. Luke, and to the Romaines) it had shewed to be vnlawfull for him to meddle with? And although M. Doctor say the sentence be generall, yet it is particular∣ly ment, and most properly of the ministers, which M. Caluine teacheth M. Doctor in the same place, where he hath cited his authoritie twice to no purpose. For what althoughe M. Caluine doe not there apply in prescript words this sentence to proue that ministers ought not to meddle with ciuill offices, dothe it followe therfore that this place can not be vsed thereto? In saying that he ought to abstayne from all lets which may hinder his vocation and ministerie, he doth consequently say, that he ought to abstayne from all ciuill offyces, and if so be M. Doctor had beene so well read in the auncient Doctors (as he would seeme) he might haue knowne that this place is vsed of Cy∣prian to the same purpose that it is alleaged heere. For Cyprian speaking agaynst an Elder which* 1.19 had taken vpon him to be executor to one whiche was dead, alleageth this place.

Io. Whitgifte.

That whiche is spoken of a souldiour perteyneth to all Christians as well as to a minister: for euery Christian man is a souldiour: these ciuill functions be helpes to the ministerie, and may be lawfully vsed as I haue sayde before. M. Caluine truely interpreteth the place, and his interpretation maketh fully for my purpose, and di∣rectly agaynst you, as the Reader may easily perceyue, so that your many words are soone with this breuitie answered.

Cyprian alleageth the place to good purpose: for to be an executor is a troublesome matter, and dothe oftentimes hinder men from their other callings, so that somtimes euen temporall men (as we call them) doe auoyde the same for the trouble that ther∣vpon commonly ensueth: And yet I doubt whether you woulde refuse to be an exe∣cutor, or no, if it were offered vnto you by some: neyther doe I thinke it vnlawfull, so that the troublesomnesse of it be not too much, and an hinderance in déede to weigh∣tier matters.

Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 166. tovvards the ende.

To these reasons of the Admonition, may be added that whych the Admonition hath in the. 230. page, that the regiment of the Church is spirituall, and respecteth the conscience, and therefore hath not to doe wyth ciuill offices, which respect properly the common wealth, and the outwarde, godly, honest, and quiec behauiour. And therfore their meanyng is, that as the ciuill gouernour dothe vse suche kynde of punishmente as may brydle the outwarde man, and holde hym that he dare not of∣fende in the open breache of that godlynesse, honestie, and quietnesse which S. Paule commendeth* 1.20 vnto vs: so the ecclesiasticall regiment dothe vse that kynde of discipline, whereby the conscience and inwarde man may be kepte in that wylling obedience vnto Gods commaundement, touching a godly, honest, and quiet lyfe.

Io. Whitgifte.

The gouernment of the Church in the respect of Christ, whiche by his holy spirite ruleth in the heart and conscience of man, is onely spirituall: but it is not so in the respect of the visible Churche, and earthly members, and ministers of the same: for then must you of necessitie shut out the ciuill Magistrate from all kind of gouernmēt in the Church, which is the matter you shoote at, cloake it as muche as you can. But of the regiment of the Churche, and of the vntruthe of this your assertion I haue spo∣ken before: and speake of it also in that which followeth.

Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 230. Sect. 1. 3.

You byd vs in the margent (to proue that the regiment of the Church should be spiritual) reade Ephe. 1. verse. 23. 1. Thes. 5. verse. 13. 1. Tim 5. verse. 2. Heb. 10. verse. 30.

In the. 1. Thes. 5. the Apostle beseecheth them to loue suche for their vvorkes sake, as labour among them, are ouer them in the Lord, and admo∣nishe them. What argument call you this? S. Paule mou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s the Thes. to loue their Pastors: Ergo, the gouernment of the Church is onely spirituall.

T. C. Page. 166. in the ende.

And to note the distinction of these regiments ciuill and spirituall, the place vnto the Thessal.* 1.21 is well alleaged: for by the words (such as rule ouer you in the Lorde) the Apostle dothe put a difference betweene the ciuil & ecclesiastical regiment. For albeit that godly ciuill Magistrates do rule ouer vs in the Lorde, yet S. Paule 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is, by excellencie, ascribeth that vnto the ecclesiasticall gouernours, bicause that wheras the ciuill Magistrate, beside his care for the sal∣uation of the soules of his people, is occupied, in procuring also the wealthe and quietnesse of thys lyfe: the ecclesiasticall gouernours haue all their whole care set vpon that onely, whych perteyneth to the lyfe to come.

Io. Whitgifte.

True it is that the ciuill gouernment is distinguished from the ecclesiastical: but there is some thing common to them both, as these ciuill offices wherof we speake.

The place to the Thes. which the Authors of the Admonition vse, pag. 227. to proue that the gouernment of the Churche ought to be spirituall, can not be vsed to make any distinction betwixt ciuill and ecclesiasticall gouernment. For by your owne con∣fession this portion (are ouer you in the Lord) which you would haue to make this di∣stinction, is aswell spoken of the ciuill Magistrate, as it is of the Pastor, and so it is in déede, and therfore this text is abused both by them and you. The Apostle vseth the same maner of spéeche; speaking of the obedience of wiues towards their husbands, Vxores subditae estote proprijs viris, sicuti decet in Domino: VViues be subiect vnto your owne* 1.22 husbands, as it behoueth you in the Lord. And yet you will not say that the gouernment of the husbande ouer his wife is onely spirituall. And therefore howsoeuer you 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ally out the matter, with saying that S. Paule heere 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 ascribeth this vnto the ecclesiasticall gouernours, yet it will not serue your turne, for he ascribeth it also to those that be ciuill. The ecclesiasticall gouernours haue all their whole care set vpon that onely whych perteyneth to the lyfe to come: True it is, and to the same ende ten〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth the ciuill gouernment which they doe exercise, as I haue tolde you before.

Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 230. Sect. 4.

In the. 1. Tim. 5. verse. 2. he willeth Timothie to exhorte the elder vvomen as mothers, the yonger as sisters: whervpon you conclude thus: Elder women must be exhorted as mothers, the yonger as systers, with al purenesse: Ergo, the gouernmēt of y^e church must be spirituall.

T. C. Pag. 167. Lin. 5.

And to this ende also is alleaged by the Admonition the place of Tim. wherein the Apostle tea∣cheth* 1.23 part of the ecclesiasticall discipline, whych the minister may vse, to consist in reprehensions and rebukes, which must be tempered according as the estate and age of euery one doth require. Their meaning is not (as M. Doctor doth vntruely surmise) to shut out the ciuil Magistrate, or to de∣barre him of punishing the wicked, but that it apperteyneth not vnto the ministers to deale that wayes, whose correction of faults lyeth partly in reprehensions and admonitions, which he spea∣keth of there, partly in excommunication, whereof is spoken before.

Io. Whitgifte.

But how ap〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ly this place is alleaged to this end, euery child may vnderstand. For what a collection call you this. S. Paule willeth Tim, to exhorte the elder women as mothers, the yonger as sisters, therfore the regiment of the Church is only spiritual, & an ecclesiasticall person may not intermeddle with any kind of ciuil affayres? one Chri∣stian man must exhort an other, & reproue an other also, as occasion requireth, there∣fore he may not execute any ciuil office: the reason is al one. Your defense of this place is very slender, and you might with as muche credite to them haue passed it ouer, as you haue done diuers other.

Chap. 1. the. 10. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 230. Sect. 2.

In the place to the Ephes. the Apostle sayth, that God hathe ap∣poynted Christ to be the head of the Churche, vvhiche is his body, euen the fulnesse of him that filleth all in all things. Here we learne that Christ* 1.24 is the head of the Churche: but howe proues this that the gouern∣ment of the Churche is onely spirituall? Will you heereby take a∣way ciuill Magistrates, and other gouernoures that God hathe placed in his Churche? It is subtilly done of you to quote the pla∣ces onely, and not to apply them, nor to conclude of them: for surely if you had layde downe the words, and applyed them to your pur∣pose, not wyse and learned onely, but very children woulde haue laughed you to scorne.

T. C. Pag. 167. Lin. 12.

Further touching the place of the Ephes. for so muche as our sauiour Christ as he is head of his Church, is the spirituall gouernour thereof, it is meete that their gouernment which are ap∣poynted vnderneath him, as he is head, should be likewise spirituall, as his is. For as for the cyuil* 1.25 Magistrate, although he be appoynted of Chryst (as he is God) in whyche respecte there is none aboue Christ, yet he is not appoynted of hym, in respect that he is head of the Churche, in regarde whereof God is aboue Christ, and as the Apostle sayth, the head of him.

Io. Whitgifte.

Christ is the head of the Churche, and spiritually gouerneth the same in the con∣science,* 1.26 but bicause it hath also an outwarde and visible forme, therefore it requireth an outwarde and visible gouernment, whiche Christ dothe execute aswell by the ci∣uill Magistrate, as he dothe by the ecclesiasticall minister, and therefore the gouern∣ment of the Churche, in the respect of the externall and visible forme of it, is not one∣ly spirituall. Christ gouerneth by him selfe spiritually onely, and by his ministers bothe spiritually and externally, and therefore your reason is nothing. But why doe you not answere in this place, to that which I charge them with, touching the ciuill* 1.27 Magistrate? In the former place where I spake no suche thing, you sayde that I vn∣truely surmised, that they shut out the ciuill Magistrate from punishing the wycked: But héere when I charge them, that by their application of this place, they take away ciuill Magistrates and other gouernours, that God hath placed in his Churche, you answere not one worde. In déede bothe you and they by your false interpretations of this and such lyke places, doe altogither seclude the ciuill Ma∣gistrate, from any gouernment of the Churche, and in effect say with the Papistes, that he dothe gouerne as he is man, and not as he is a Christian, and that he gouerneth men in that they be men, and not in that they be Christian men: which may well be spoken of the Turke, hauing Christians subiect vnder him: but it is wickednesse to thinke it of a Christian Magistrate, and it dothe not muche differ from the opinion of the Anabaptistes.

Chap. 1. the. 11. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 230. Sect. 5. 6. & Pag. 231. Sect. 1.

In the. 10. Hebr. verse. 30. it is thus written: For vve knovve hym that hath sayde, vengeance belongeth vnto me, I vvill recompence sayth the Lorde. And agayne: The Lorde shall iudge his people.

Uengeance belongeth to God, and he shall iudge his people: Ergo, the gouernment of the Church must be spirituall.* 1.28

I am ashamed of these reasons, and so will you be likewise, if you be not past shame. If you meane that the gouernment of the Church is spirituall, bicause God by his spirite, gyftes, and ministerie of hys worde dothe gouerne it, you saye truely, although these places be vnaptly alleaged: but if you meane, that therefore there neede no ciuill Magistrates, no ciuill and politike lawes, no externall discipline, no outwarde ceremonies and orders, you are greatly deceyued, and ioyne with the Anabaptistes, whose errour in that poynt is sufficiently by dyuers learned men confuted. And therefore I will not as yet intermeddle therewith, vntill I vnderstande fur∣ther of your meaning.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is lefte vnanswered.

¶ The reasons which T. C. vseth agaynst ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons, examined.

Chap. 2. the first Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. Sect. 1.

Nowe that I haue shewed that the places quoted by the Admonition, are for the most parte to the purpose of that they be quoted for, I wil adde a reason or two to this purpose, before I come to answere to those reasons which are brought by M. Doctor. Here I must desire the Reader to re∣member (which I sayde before, when I spake agaynst non residencie) the multitude & difficultie of those things which are required of the minister of the word of God. And withal I wil leaue to the consideration of euery one, the great infirmitie and weaknesse which is in men, both the which con∣siderations set togither, it will easily appeare howe vnmeete a thing it is, that the minister shoulde haue any other charge layde vpon him, seeing that it beeing so weightie an office, as wyll require all the giftes he hath, be they neuer so great, it must needes fall out, that so muche as he dothe man other calling, so muche he leaueth vndone in this.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Reader may easily iudge howe fitly they were alleaged, in that they néeded your commentarie to teache the application of them, which otherwyse woulde haue asked some cunning to make them to serue the turne. But as the places be vnfitly quoted by them, so are they in déede as slenderly defended by you: as may appeare in your Replyes, and my Answeres.

Your first argumēt why ecclesiastical persons may not exercise ciuil offices is this: The multitude and difficultie of those things whych are required of the minister, are suche, and the weaknesse and infirmitie of man so great, that the minister can not execute any other offyces. &c. This had some likelyhoode in it, if the minister should execute any office contrarie or repugnant to his ecclesiasticall function. But séeing I haue before declared that such ciuill offices as be nowe committed to Bishops, and other of the Cleargie, be neces∣sarie helpes to their other callings, and moste profitable for the good and quiet go∣uernment of the Churche, this argument of it selfe falleth to the grounde. But why may you not as well reason thus? the multitude and greatnesse of those things that are required of a Christian, be suche, and the infirmitie and frayltie of man so great, that if he did nothing but giue him selfe to spirituall meditation, and neuer meddle with worldly affayres, he were not able to doe his full duetie: therefore no Chri∣stian man may practise any suche thing, or meddle in worldly and ciuill matters. This argument is the roote of Anabaptisme.

Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. in the midst.

And what the hande of man is able to reache heerein, it is to be considered in the Apostles, whome if the office of the ministerie dyd so wholly occupie and set a worke, that they could admitte no other charge with it, yea and were fayne to cast of that whych they had, it is cleare that none of those which lyue nowe can beside that function, admit any other publike calling. The story is knowne in the Acts, that the Apostles euen during the tune that they kept togither at Ierusalem,* 1.29 and taught the Churche there, were fayne, that they might the better attende vnto preaching and praying (by which two thyngs S. Luke summarily setteth foorth the office of the ministerie) to giue ouer the charge of prouiding for the poore vnto others, bycause they were not able to do both. Now for so much as the Apostles endued with suche giftes as none haue beene since, or shall be hereafter, could not discharge togither with the office of the minister that also of the Deacon, howe shoulde any man be founde, that togither with that office, can discharge the office of a ciuill Magi∣strate? And if the Apostles would not haue the office of a Deacon, whiche was ecclesiasticall, and therefore of the same kynde with the ministerie ioyned vnto it, howe muche lesse wyll they suffer that the ministerie should be ioyned with a ciuill offyce, and therefore of an other kynde? For rea∣son teacheth that there is an easier mingling of those whych are of one kynde, than of those whiche are of dyuers kyndes.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is euident that the Apostles, from the ascention of Christ into heauen vntill* 1.30 this time, did execute both the office of the Apostles, and the office of Deacons also. Wherby it is manyfest that these offices may at sometimes méete togither in one, and the selfe same person. And M. Caluine vpon the. 6. of the Actes sayth: That they dyd not altogither caste off this care for the poore, sed leuationem quaesijsse vt suo muneri in∣tenti esse possent, but that they sought an easing thereof, that they might be intentiue vnto their offyce. The causes therfore that moued the Apostles to leaue off from executing the one, that is, the Deaconship, is to be considered. One cause was, the great encrease of the number of Christians, whiche was nowe growne to suche a multitude, that the Apostles coulde not well both make prouision for the poore, and gyue them selues also bothe to preaching and praying.

An other cause was the murmuring and grudging of the Gretians, who thought that the Apostles had more regarde to prouide for their owne countrey men the Iewes, than for the Erecians béeing straungers vnto them. Wherefore the Apo∣stles béeing willing to eschewe this grudging and repyning, dyd for auoyding the suspition of partialitie, will the whole multitude to choose them Deacons: and both those causes be expressed in the beginning of the. 6. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hapter of the Acts.

The thirde cause was, for that the Apostles knewe, that they shoulde shortly be dispersed, and that their office was to goe from place to place, to plant Churches, and preache the Gospell, so that they coulde not nowe execute the office of Deacons, as they dyd whilest they remayned togither.

This beeing so (as it can not be denied) there can be no likely argument gathered of this place, that ecclesiasticall persons may not haue some kinde of ciuill functions. And if a man well consider howe busie and troublesome an office the Deaconship was at that tyme (the Churche béeing in persecution, and the number of poore great) he shall easily perceyue, that there is no comparison betwixt the troublesomnesse of that office then, and the ciuill offices nowe committed to ecclesiastical persons, which be so farre from hindering their ecclesiasticall functions, that they worke the cleane contrarie effect. And yet it is certayne, that the Apostle S. Paule, and Titus, with Luke, or as some thinke, Barnabas, did togither with the office of preaching, make collections for the poore. 2. Corinth. 8.

Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. somvvhat tovvards the ende.

Agayne, how can we iustly reproue the Papistes for the vse of bothe the swords, spirituall an〈1 line〉〈1 line〉

materiall, when as we are founde in the same faulte our selues? And surely howsoeuer long cu∣stome hath caused it to seeme, yet in deede it is a very great and vntollerable confusion, which may be the easelyer vnderstanded, if so be we set before our eyes, how vncomely and disordered it is, in the like, or rather in the very same case. For let vs imaginethe Ma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or or Bayliue of a towne, or the King or Emperour of the lande, to come into the pulpit and make a sermon, afterwarde to minister the sacraments, and from the Churche to goe with the scepter in his hande vnto the place of iudge∣ment: who would not be amased to see this, and wonder at it, as at a s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aūge and monstrous light? assuredly the self same deformitie it is, when as the minister of the word is made a Iustice of peace, of Quorum, a Commissioner, an Earle, or any suche like, to whom the iudgement of matters per∣teyning to the court of the ciuill Magistrate is committed, especially seeing there are God be 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ray∣sed) of the Nobilitie and Gentrie of this realme, that are able to discharge these offices much bet∣ter, than those ecclesiasticall persons to whome they are committed.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Bishop of Rome doth chalenge vnto him selfe the whole power and authori∣tie* 1.31 of the ciuill Magistrate, and that (as he sayth) by the word of God. He baasteth that temporall Princes haue their authoritie from him: and that it is in his power bothe to displace and place them. This we vtterly and most iustly condemne: but that iu∣risdiction ciuill that we allowe in ecclesiasticall persons, is not the whole power of the ciuill Magistrate, but onely so muche as may helpe to the good gouernment of the Churche, and the suppression of vice. Neyther doe we chalenge it as due, but receyue it from the ciuill Magistrate as conuenient, and execute it by his authoritie, not by our owne. This you could not but vnderstande, if you had not bin disposed to qua〈1 line〉〈1 line〉il.

You say, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tis an vntollerable confusion. &c. but this is a Popish surmise, and the exam∣ple vsed craftily to verifie the same: for the Papists doe imagine (or at the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 doe maliciously spread abrode) that by giuing to the Prince chiefe authoritie in eccle∣siasticall matters, we also giue vnto hir power to minister the sacramentes, and to preache the worde: In like maner you would insinuate vnto the Reader, that by al∣lowing ciuill functions in ecclesiasticall persons, we also allowe them to execute all kinde of ciuill functions: which is spoken of you as well to deface the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in matters ecclesiasticall, as it is to improue ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons. It is neyther confusion, nor vncomelynesse to come from the pul∣pit, and administration of the Sacraments, to the punishment and correction of vice and wickednesse. Neyther is it any monstruous or straunge sight, for an ecclesiasticall person to execute that kinde of discipline agaynst offendours, which by lawfull authoritie is established in the Church, whether it be by béeing Iustice of peace and Quorum, or a Comm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉issioner, or any other suche like office and function.

But remember I pray you what you sayd before in the treatise of Seni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rs: you* 1.32 there set it downe that they are ecclesiasticall persons: and yet M. Beza (as I haue there declared) sayth that noble men and Princes maye be of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉, wher∣fore eyther may ciuill and ecclesiasticall offices méete togither in eccles〈1 line〉〈1 line〉icall per∣sons (whiche you denie) or else can not noble men and Princes be of your Seignio∣rie, as M. Beza affirmeth: or if they be of your 〈◊〉〈◊〉, they must cast off their Baronries, Earldomes, and ciuill dominions (whiche I am sure they wyll not) or else to conclude, your assertion is straunge, and your S〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lorie con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉used.

I doubt not but that many of the Nobilitie and Gen〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rie of this Realme are more fitte for these things, than ecclesiasticall men are: neyther can I be persuaded, but that they consider how expedient it is notwithstanding, that such functions be com∣mitted to some of the cleargie: and I am well assured that they can not but easily es∣pie the deformitie & confusion that your platforme would bring to this Monarchie.

Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. Lin. 2.

And if so be that there fall out any question at any time whyche is to be decyded by the worde of God, and wherein the aduyse of the minister is needefull, there the ministers helpe maye and* 1.33 ought to be required. For thereof we haue not onely an example in (*) 1.34 Esra, where the Princes* 1.35 in a matter of difficultie, came and asked the counsell of Esra, but we haue a playne commaunde∣ment

in Moses by the Lorde, who commaunded that the cause of periurie shoulde be heard before the Lorde in the Sanctuary, at the hearing whereof the highe Priest should be present, by which commaundemente the Lorde dothe not by bringing thys cause into the Sanctuar e declare, that the iudgement thereof dyd apperteyne vnto the ecclesiasticall courte, but bicause it beeing a matter whiche touched the glory of God very expressely, he would haue the Princes whiche were Iudges there, to be the nearer touched, and the deepelyer affected wyth the glory of God, whereof they sau e the sacrament before their eyes, neyther is the high Priest commaunded to be present to this ende▪ that he should sit as iudge of that matter, but that he might dissolue the difficulties, if any rose of the vnderstanding of the lawe, and that he might pricke forwarde, and stirre vp by admoni∣tion▪ the princes to whome the iudgement apperteyned, if so be he should see them colde and slacke to reuenge the iniuried done vnto the Lorde. Which thing may the better appeare, in that the hand∣ling of the matter, is there appoynted, not vnto the priests, but vnto the Iudges or princes onely, and so lykewyse of matrimonie and diuorse, although the iudgement thereof apperteyne vnto the ciuill Magistrate, yet the minister, if there be any difficultie in knowing when it is a lawfull con∣tract, and when the diuorse is lawfull, may and ought to be consulted with. Thus may the com∣mon wealth and Churche enioy bothe the wisdome and searning which is in the minister, & things may be done in that order whych God hath appoynted, without suche confounding and iumbling of offices and iurisdictions togither.

Io. Whitgifte.

You woulde not haue a minister to enioy any ciuill office, and yet would you not* 1.36 haue the ciuill Magistrate to determine any thing in matters of weyght, without the aduise and counsell of the minister, that is, the Minister must prescribe vnto the ciuill Magistrate what he should doe in all weyghtie and doubtfull cau. es. This is your drifte in this place, so farre as I can gather: else I knowe not to what purpose you should spende so many words, for they conclude nothing agaynst the cause, but with it rather. In déede I haue heard say, that in some Churches which some of you haue gone about to reforme, the minister was all in all, and in all affayres his aduise and consent was had, else nothing could be done. Whiche authoritie surely passeth all the ciuill turisdiction, that I knowe any man hath or desireth in this Church. But you may intermeddle in the offices of Maiors, Bayliues, Iustices of peace, & in deede haue an oare in euery mans boate, and yet nothing hinder your Pastoral office: such is the excellencie of your wit and giftes aboue other men, that the same thing may be lawfull in you, a little portion wherof may not be permitted to others.

You make a fayre glosse vpon the. 19. of Deuteronomie: but howe aptly, the Rea∣der may consider if he marke the place well: the words of the text be these: If a false* 1.37 witnesse rise vp agaynst a man to accuse him of trespasse, then bothe the men that striue to∣gither shall stande before the Lorde, euen before the Priests and the Iudges whiche shall be in those dayes, and the Iudges shall make diligent inquisition. &c. First heere is no word of y^e Sanctuarie, for this that is sayd (before the Lord) M. Caluin in his harmonie doth interprete on this sorte: Coram leboua. i. corā sacerdotibus & iudicibus qui fuerunt in diebus illis: Before Iehoua, that is, before the Priests and Iudges which were in those dayes. And in deede God is sayde to be there present, where his true ministers are assem∣bled: wherfore your descanting of the Sanctuarie▪ is without any ground. Moreouer it dothe not appeare, by any thing in this place, but that the Priest had as muche to doe in the matter, as the iudge had: wherefore this place can not serue your turae in any respect.

The place in the. 9. of Esoras maketh altogither agaynst you: for the rulers came* 1.38 to complayne vnto Esoras, that the people had married with the Gentiles, and Es∣dras tooke vpon him as one hauing authoritie, to reforme it, and to separate them from their wyues, as it euidently appeareth in the tenth chapter, and. 4. and. 5. verse. For certayne of them came vnto Esoras, and spake vnto him in this maner: Aryse, for the matter belongeth vnto thee. &c. It appeareth that you haue very smal care what you alleage, so it may seeme to be something.

You adde in the ende, and say: and so likewyse of matrimonie and diuorse. &c. But the Reader muste take heede that he imagine not this assertion of yours, to be conteyned in any of these two places quoted by you. It is but your owne bare affirmation, you alleage no authoritie for it.

Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. in the midst▪

For although Aristotles 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and Platoes 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is, instruments seruing to two purposes, be lawfull in offices of the common wealth, where things are more free, and left in greater libertie to be ordered at the iudgement and aduise of men, especially considering that vpon the diuersitie of the formes of common wealthes, varietie of regiment may spring, yet in the Church of God, where things are brought to a strayghter rule, & which is but one & vniforme▪ the same may not be suffered. And yet euen those common wealth Philosophers, whiche doe licence vpon occasion, that two offices may meete in one man, holde that it is best, and conuenientest, that euery one should haue a particular charge. For Aristotle sayth, it is moste agreable to nature, that* 1.39 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 should be 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is, one instrumēt to one vse. And Plato vseth the prouerbe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 agaynst those whych will take vpon them diuers vocations, and not content them selues with one, and they make the meeting of many functions in one man, to be a remedie only in extreme neede, and pouertie of able men.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be but words onely conteyning no sounde proofes, and require but a short answere, whiche is, that these ciuill and ecclesiasticall offices, whiche we ioyne to∣gither in one person, tende to one and the same ende, and serue for the same pur∣pose, that is, the quiet and good gouernment of the Churche, and the suppression of* 1.40 vyce and sinne. I haue proued before, that the externall forme and kinde of gouern∣ment in the Churche is not one and vniforme (as you heere affirme) but variable, according to place, person, and time.

Diuers offices may be committed to one man in a common wealth, though there be more fit for the same, excepte you wyll make the state popular, and restrayne the Prince from the libertie of bestowing suche offices vpon suche as she thinketh moste méete for them, which, if it be well marked, is parte of your drifte. Belike you or some of your friendes, lacke offices, and therefore you woulde gladly haue a newe distribution.

Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. somevvhat past the midst

And althoughe bothe be vnlawfull, yet as the case standeth in our realme, it is more tollerable that the ciuill Magistrate should doe the office of a minister, than that the minister shoulde inter∣meddle with the function of the Magistrate. For when the accounts shall be cast, it will fall out, that there are more sufficient and able men to serue in the common wealth of this realme, than in the Church, and greater want in the one, than in the other.

Io. Whitgifte.

This reason of yours if it were true dothe but accuse the Prince and hir Coun∣cell of lacke of due consideration of the state of this Realme: for this is a reason of Policie, and not of Diuinitie. Undoubtedly you are set vp in the chayre of controle∣ment, and your giftes are so great, that you dare presume to prescribe both new Di∣uinitie, and newe Pollicie. I doe nothing doubte but that the state of this common wealth is better knowne and considered, than that there shall néede any of your ad∣uertisementes for the gouernment of it: and therefore I passe ouer these wordes of yours, as voyde of reason, and full of presumption, and suche, whereby of stomacke onely you séeke to discredite and to disable the state of the Churche, and ecclesiasticall persons, agaynst whome you haue conceyued displeasure.

Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. somevvhat tovvards the ende.

And if beside this, both authoritie of the worde of God, & light of reason, we will looke vnto the practise of the church many yeres after the tyme of the Apostles, we shall finde that the church hath beene very carefull from tune to time, that this order should be kept, that the ministers should not entangle them selues with any thing beside their ministerie, and those thyngs whych the worde of God doth necessarily put vpon them, least the strength of theyr mynde, and of theyr body, beeyng distracted vnto many things, they shoulde be the lesse able to accomplishe their ministerie vnto the full. Which may also partly appeare by that whych I haue alleaged out of Cyprian, whyche wyll not permit them so much as to be executors of a Testament. And in the. 80. Canon of those which are ascribed vnto the Apostles, it is enioyned that they should not entangle themselues with world∣ly offices, but attende vpon their ecclesiasticall affayres.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you compare the state of the Churche before the time of Christian Kings, with the state of it vnder Christian Kings, you make an vnequall comparison. For howe coulde ecclesiasticall persons enioy any ciuill function, when there was no ciuil Ma∣gistrate christian to commit the same vnto them? How could by this meanes the go∣uernment of the Church be thought to be helped by the Ciuill Magistrate, when as it had no greater enimies than ciuill Magistrates, who sought by all meanes to sup∣presse and destroy it? but nowe to your reasons.

To 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yprians authoritie I haue answered before.

The Canons of the Apostles haue nowe béene alleaged by you at the least. 4. or. 5. times, and yet is not their credite and authoritie so firme. But that Canon mea∣neth onely suche worldely causes as be impedimentes to their vocation: and I haue tolde you often that ciuill functions be necessarie helpes, to the dooing and ful ac∣complishing of their ecclesiasticall office. I haue expressed in my Answere to the Ad∣monition, what worldly affayres a minister of the word may not intangle him selfe with.

Chap. seconde the. 8. diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. Sect. vlt.

Further in the (*) councell of Calcedon it was decreed, that, none of the clearkes & cleargie* 1.41 (as it termeth them) should receyue any charge of those which are vnder age, vnlesse they were such as the lawes dyd necessarily cast vpon him, which it calleth inexcusable charges, meaning by all likelihoode the wardship of his brothers children, or some such thing. Where is also declared the cause of that decree to haue bin, for that there were certayne ministers which were Stewards to noble men. And 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the. 7. canon of the same councell it is decreed, that none of the cleargy shoulde eyther goe to warfare as souldiours or captaynes, or should receyue any secular honors, and if they dyd, they should be excommunicated, or accursed.

Io. Whitgifte.

The words of the thirde Canon be these: Relation is made vnto this holy Synode,* 1.42 that certayn amongst the cleargie for filthie lucers sake hyer other mens possessions, & take vpon them the causes of secular businesse, and through slouthfulnesse separate themselues frō diuine functions, and runne to the houses of secular persons, & for couetousnesse take vpon thē the gouernment of their substance: therfore this holy vniuersall & great Synode hath decreed, that none of these hereafter, that is, Bishop, or Clearke, or Monke, shall hyer possessions, or intermeddle with secular possessions, except those that by lawe are dryuen to take the tuition and care of suche as be vnder age: or those to whome the Bishop of the Citie hathe committed the gouernment of ecclesiasticall things, and of Orphanes and wi∣dowes, which are without succour, or of such persons which neede the helpe of the Church for the feare of God. &c.

This Canon conteyneth nothing contrarie to my assertion, the words of the Ca∣non be playne: I shall not néede to vse any exposition of it. Onely I would haue the

Reader marke the weight of your argument, which is this. The Councell of Chal∣cedon sayeth, that Clerkes may not for filthy lucres sake hyre other mennes possessions, or take vpon them for couetousnesse sake, the gouernment of other mennes possessions, &c. therefore there may be no ciuill office committed vnto them. I will aske no better cō∣mentaries to the Canon of the Apostles before alledged, or any other suche like, than this very Canon of the Councell of Chalcedon.

To what purpose do you alledge the. 7. Canon of that Councell? did you euer heare me say that I would haue a minister to be a Souldier or a captaine in warre? or enioy any such secular honor or offices? wherefore you lacke probation when you are constrayned to vse this.

¶ The reasons vsed in the Answere iustified.

Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 169. Lin. 4. & Sect. 1. 2.

Now I come to M. Doctors arguments which he bringeth to establish this disorder.

And first he sayth ministers of the worde may not occupie themselues in worldly businesse, as to be marchants, husbandmen, craftes men, and such like, but they may exercise ciuil offices. Wher first of all I perceyue, M. Doctor is of this mynde, that the order of God is not to be broken for small gayne, or when a man must take great toyle of the bodie to breake it: but if it may be broken with getting of honor, and doing of those things which may be done without toyle, and with great commendation, then it is lawfull to breake it. In deede so the Poet (but in the person of an vniust and ambitious man) sayde, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. that is. If a man muste do vniustiy, he must do it to beare rule.

Secondarily, I do see that M. Doctor will not be shackled and hindred from his ministerie, by a payre of yron fetters, but if he can get a payre of golden fetters, he is contented to be hampered and entangled from doing the office of ministerie committed vnto him. For vnlesse these should be the causes which should moue him to take the one, and refuse the other, verily I see none.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is to deride, & not to answere. M Bucer writing vpon the. 4. to the Ephes.* 1.43 rehearsing such worldly businesse as withdrawe the minister from his function and therefore be not meete for him to exercise, sayth thus: Such businesse, as warfare, market affayres, marchandise, hucksters craft, the ouersight of Innes, Tauerns, and bathes: to exer∣cise vnliberall craftes, as to digge mettals and stones, to burne lyme, to carie sande, to be schauengers, and such like. You haue not yet proued that Gods order is broken, if the ci∣uill offices which I speake of be committed to Ecclesiasticall persons. Your iesting tauntes I leaue to those that professe that cunning.

Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 169. Sect. 2.

For whereas he sayth it is a helpe, and maynteyneth religion, in deede that is the reason of the* 1.44 Papistes which M. Caluin confuteth in his institution.

And although it be good and necessary to punish vice and iniquitie, by corporall punishmentes and by ciuill corrections, yet it doth no more followe that that should be done by the ministers, than it followeth that for that preachyng and ministring the Sacramentes, and excommunication are good and necessarie, therfore the same is fitte to be executed by the ciuill magistrate. I graunt the ministers haue also to punish vice, for as the ciuill magistrates punishe lighter faultes with some penaltie of monie or losse of member: so the church and the minister especially with the church, hath to punishe faultes by reprehensions and rebukes. And as the ciuill magistrate punisheth greater faultes by death: so the minister with other which haue interest, hath with y^e sworde of excommu∣nication power to kill those which be rebellious, and to cut them from the churche, as the other doth from the common wealth. And if it be a helpe to the ministers office, that he shoulde meddle with ciuill punishments, why should it not be a help vnto the Magistrates office that he should excom∣municate and do other thinges perteyning to the Ecclesiasticall discipline?

Io. Whitgifte.

In what woordes doth M. Caluine confute it, or by what reason? you cut of the mat∣ter very shorte: in that booke and chapt. of his Instit. which you haue quoted in the margent, there is no such reason either alleaged or confuted. Only in the. 9. Section, he speaketh agaynst the temporall dominion of the Popish Bishops, whiche deriue their excessiue power not from the ciuill Magistrate, but fcō the Pope, cloking it with this pretence, that it is an ornament and beutie to the kingdome of Christ: which is far from any thing alleaged by me, why it is conuenient that our Bishops haue ciuill authoritie committed vnto them.

I would gladly heare a reason either of the Scripture, or any other authenticall* 1.45 wryter, why it should be as lawfull for a ciuill Magistrate to preache, minister the Sacraments, and excōmunicate, as for the Ecclesiasticall minister to vse corporall punishment: it was lawfull for Samuell to kill Agag, being the office of Saule: but it was not lawfull for Saule to offer vp sacrifices, that being the office of Samuell. The office and function of a mynister is not in his owne power to commit to whom he list: but the office of the ciuill Magistrate may be cōmitted to whom soeuer it shal* 1.46 please him best to like of, and to thinke most fitte for gouernment.* 1.47

True it is that excōmunication is an Ecclesiastical censure which the mynister* 1.48 may exercise if the state of the Church will beare it (for reprehension is a discipline lawfull for euery Christian to vse) but it is not the onely censure: for the ciuill ma∣gistrate may appoynt other, as shall be to the state of the Church moste conuenient. You know what M. Gualter sayeth. 1. Cor. 5. As the Romaine Bishops vpon this place and such like, haue grounded their excommunication, which is the most effectuall instru∣ment of their tyrannie, whereby they haue cruelly vexed not onely priuate men, but also Kinges and Emperours, and haue bene the causes of ciuill warres and sedition: euen so the Anabaptists whilest they perswade themselues, that there can be no discipline without ex∣cōmunication, they trouble the churches euery where, and make thēselues laughing stockes to all the world, &c. Let euery church follovve that kinde of discipline vvhich is most meete for the countrie vvherein they liue, and vvhich may be moste commodious in respect of time and place: and let no man here rashly pre∣scribe vnto an other, or seeke to binde all men to one and the same forme.

Of old time there hath bene other kinde of punishments, than either reprehensiōs or excōmunication, as it may appeare euen in that Canon attributed to the Apostles which you haue before rehearsed: where the punishment appoynted, is depriuation, as it is also in the most of the other Canons, and in diuerse other councels.

You say that if it be a helpe to the ministers office, that he should meddle with the ciuill pu∣nishmēts: why should it not be a helpe to the magistrates office, that he should excommunicate, &c. The answere is soone made. The Magistrate may do that by corporall punishment that the minister can not do by Ecclesiasticall discipline: neither is there any man so desperate, whom the magistrate by his authoritie may not brydle, but such is y^e time now that fewe regarde the greatest censures of the Church.

Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 169. Sect. 2.

And whereas M. Doctor sayeth they may not be husband men, craftes men. &c. and yet may haue ciuill offices, I thinke far otherwise, that although neyther be lawfull, yet the one were more tollerable than the other. For seing after the ministerie of the worde there is no calling vnder the sunne weightier, & which requireth greater exercise of the minde, than the office-of the magistrate, it is agaynst all reason to lay this heauie burthen vpon a man, that is already loden, and hath as much as he is able to beare. It were more equall if they will needes adde vnto the weight of this burthen, to laye some lighter charge of exercising a handy crafte, than to breake his backe with the charge of a ciuill Magistrate.

Io. Whitgifte.

These wdrldly affayres of husbandrie, occupations, &c. must néedes withdrawe

him from his booke & so make him more vnapt to do his dutie: and they be not at all incident to his office, nor méete for his calling: but the Ciuill offices, that I speake of be both méete for his calling, perteyning to discipline, and helpes to his office & fun∣ction, as I haue sayde: wherefore they be so farre from breaking his backe, that they make the rest of his burthen a great deale the easier.

Chap. 3. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 169. Sect. 3.

And whereas in the pollicie of M. Doctor it seemeth a furtherance to the Gospell to ioyne these togither which was also the pollicie of the Idolaters as I haue before declared) in the wise∣dome of God it hath seemed farre otherwise, which I doubt not did therfore separate the ministerie from this pompe, which is commendable in the ciuill magistrate. least the efficacie and power of the simplicitie of the worde of God and of the ministerie should be obscured, whilest men would attri∣bute the conuersion of soules vnto the gospell (due vnto the worde and to the spirite of God) to these glorious shewes. And least whilest the Minister haue the word in one hande, and the swordem the other, men should not be able to iudge so well in their consciences▪ of the mightie operation of the worde of God in them. For they might doubte with themselues whether these are and outwarde shewe of the minister, caried some stroke with them in beleuing the worde.

Io. Whitgifte.

One of your reasons conteyned in this place, in effect is this. If ministers shoulde enioy ciuill functions, men would attribute the conuersion of soules vnto these shewes: but that ought they not to do: therefore. &c. I denie your Maior as a fonde and vaine imagination. An other reason you frame on this sorte: If the mynister haue both ciuill and Ecclesiasticall power▪ men should not be able to iudge in their consciences of the mightie operation of the worde of God in them: for they might doubt whether the feare of the outward shewe of the minister carried* 1.49 some stroke with them, &c. This is as vayne an imagination as is the other: and they both may as aptly be applied agaynst the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate, as a∣gaynst the ciuill iurisdiction of the minister: yea in déede they serue to the ouerthrow of all kinde of ciuill punishment. For if the Magistrate make sharpe lawes for com∣ming to the Churche, hearing the woorde of God, contemning religion, and such like, men that by such meanes are driuen to heare the woorde of God. &c. & so at the length conuerted, may doubt whether the woorde hath wrought this in them or the feare of outwarde punishment. Do you not marke how he still smiteth at the Magistrate? Percey〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te you not how neare he approcheth to the opinion of the Anabaptistes, who would haue no kinde of discipline in the Church but only excommunication?* 1.50

But to Answere you briefly, God vseth corporall punishments as a meanes to driue▪ euen the elect to the hearing of the worde of God, & to honestie of lyfe. He vseth it also to brydle the wicked, that by their exāples other men might learne to beware, and that they themselues also may be kepte in order. And no man that is truly con∣uerted by the preaching of the woorde, can doubt but that God by the working of his spirite, thorough the ministerie of his woorde, hath wrought that good in him, though by externall meanes (as feare of punishment, and such lyke) he was first as it were enforced to heare the woorde, and to kéepe himselfe in order. In deede if these reasons of yours were of any force, the Magistrate might put vp his sworde, especially in Ec∣clesiasticall matters, and so might the minister lay aside his authoritie also, least any thing be ascribed there vnto Your glaunce (that this was also the pollicy of the Idolaters) though you haue no where proued it, yet haue I answered it before.

Chap. 3. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 169. Sect. vlt.

But M. Doctor sayth that ciuill offices are not to be counted worldly affayres, but heauen∣ly and spirituall▪ it is so: and yet when they are compared with the Ecclesiasticall offices. they may be called secular offices, for so much as they to gether with the care of religion, procure and prouide

for the things whereby we may quietly and commodiously liue here, where the Ecclesiasticall offi∣ces are immediatly and onely bente to procure the glory of God and the saluation of men, and in that signification of heauenly and spirituall which you take, marchandise, husbandry, and the han∣dycrafte be heauenly, and spirituall, although not in the same degree. All lawfull callinges came from God, and returne to him agayne, that is, he is both author of them and they ought to be re∣ferred to his glory, so that if the mynister may exercise all things which be heauenly and spirituall, you may as well bryng him downe to the plough, as promote him to the court.

Io. Whitgifte.

I call them Ecclesiasticall, bycause they perteyne to the inwarde man, to the* 1.51 reformation of manners, to the punishment of sinne, to the mayntenance of Reli∣gion, to the quietnesse of the Churche, and good order in the same: so do not all cyuill offices, much lesse, husbandry, marchandise, handycraftes, goyng to the plough and suche lyke, whiche onely perteyne to the body and to this lyfe, not beyng referred to the endes, that I haue before named. Wherefore here your wittes fayled you, and I looke for a better Answere.

Chap. 3. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 170. Lin. 6.

〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 M. Doctor sayth that the office of a commissioner is Ecclesiasticall, bycause it handleth Ecclesiasticall causes, I maruell that he is so ignorant, that he can not put a difference betwene giuing iudiciail sentences, and appoynting bodely punishments, (whiche are meere ciuill) and betweene the vnderstanding the truth of euery such cause according as the worde of God de∣fineth of it: which is a thing common as well vnto the magistrate as vnto the mynister, & where∣in the mynister bycause he ought to be most ready, ought (if neede be) consulted with.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely I thinke you scarse vnderstande your selfe: for if the causes be Ecclesi∣asticall, why may not the punishment by the Magistrate appoynted vnto them be executed by Ecclesiasticall persons, hauing authoritie from the Prince by commis∣sion so to do: and if the Ecclesiasticall person may giue sentence and iudgement in these Ecclesiastical causes, why may he not consent also to the punishments appoin∣ted for the same? I do not meane he should be the Iaylor, or tormentor himselfe, but to iudge the person offending worthy of this or that kinde of punishment, and to giue sentence of the crime that he hath committed, & to determine of the cause that is cal∣led into iudgement.

Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 1.

An other of M. Doctors reasons is, that as kinges do serue Christe by makyng lawes for him, so Bishops do serue Christe by executyng lawes for him: as though it perteyned not vnto the Magistrates to execute lawes as well as to make them, and as if the magistrate were not there∣fore called a speaking lawe, bycause by executing them he dothe cause the lawes after a fashion to speake. This is to deuide the stake of the magistrate, betweene him and the Bishop, yea to gyue the Byshop the best parte of it. For we know that with vs, the people be at making of the lawes, which may not meddle with the execution of them. And if M. Doctor say, that he meaneth not hereby, to shut the Prince from executing the lawes, then as his similitude (when it is at the best) proueth nothing: so by this meanes it halts downe right, and is no similitude.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Prince executeth his lawes by himselfe, & he also executeth them by other to whome he hath giuen that authoritie for the fuller and better execution of them: in this number are the Bishops, for the authoritie they haue in suche matters, they haue from the Prince: and therefore their executing of it is not to deuide stake with the Cyuill Magistrate, but to do good seruice both to God and the Magistrate.

Chap. 3. the. 8. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 217. Sect 1. 2.

What say you to Elye and Samuell, were they not both Priests* 1.52 and iudges? what office did the Prophete Elias execute, when he killed the false prophets of Baal. 1. Reg. 18. or Christ when he whipt the buyers and sellers out of the temple? what office did Paule com∣mitte to Timothy, when he sayde aduersùs Presbyterum, &c?

I woulde not haue a mynister to be a warriour, or a farmer, or a marchant, or haue any such like osfice, which consisteth in gayne or bodily labour only. But why he may not haue suche an office as is profitable to encrease godlinesse, and punish vngodlinesse, I heare as yet no reason. As for the office of an high commissioner, it is Ecclesi∣asticall, for they haue to do only in causes Ecclesiasticall.

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 1.

And for Elye and Samuell, they are extraordinarie examples, whiche may thereby appeare, for that both these offices first meeting in Melchisedech, and afterwarde in Moses, were by the commaundement of God seuered, when as the Lorde toke from Moses (beyng so wise and godly a man) the Priesthoode and gaue it to Aaron, and to his successors. And so, for so much as when the Lord would polishe his churche & make it famous, & renoun〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed in the world he gaue this order: it appeareth that he would haue this to be a perpetuall rule vnto his church. And by so much it is the clearer, for that the Lorde did not tarie vntill Moses death, but tooke the priesthoode away from Moses, which was a man as able to execute both, as eyther Elye or Samuell.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is not certayne whether Moses were euer Priest or no: for where it is sayd* 1.53 in the. 99. Bsalme. Moses & Aaron in sacerdotibus eius, the Hebrewe worde is doubtfull and signifieth as well a Prince, as a Priest: & therefore vpon this place it cannot ne∣cessarily be concluded, that Moses was a Priest. Moreouer at that time the chiefe rulers & men of greatest authoritie were called Priestes: but you neuer redde that Moses offered vp any sacrifices for sinne, which was the proper office of the Priest: Neyther can you tell vs where he was euer consecrated Priest. In déede Harding a∣gainst the Apologie doth alledge this example at Moses, being as he sayeth both a ci∣uill Magistrate and a Priest, to proue that the Pope may be both King and Priest.

But be it as you say, that these two offices were distinguished in Moyses & Aa∣ron, & that the Priests office which consisteth in offering oblations & sacrifices was taken from him, yet did he kéepe still his former authoritie in gouerning the church, and in prescribing to Aaron what he should do, euen in matters perteyning to the worship of God: so that these two offices (I meane ciuill and Ecclesiasticall) are not so distinct, but that they may both aptly & well méete & ioyne togither. Further more* 1.54 you know that howsoeuer the priesthood & ciuill Magistracie were deuided in Moses and Aaron, yet mette they both togither againe not onely in Elye & Samuell, but in Es〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ras, Nehemias, Mattathias and some other, which examples proue that vpon oc∣casion these offices may meete togither in one Person, & they quite ouerthrow your allegation of Moses.

Chap. 3. the. 9. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 1.

And this may be also easily seene, for that in a manner alwayes, where there was any good & stayde estate of the church, these offices were ministred by seueral persons, and then mette and were mingled, when the estates were very ruinous and miserable. A〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d if this be a good reason to proue that ministers may exercise ciuill offices, it is as good a reason to proue that princes may preach, and minister the Sacraments. For if the ministers may exercise ciuill offices, bicause Elye & Samuell (beyng ministers) did so: the Princes and iudges may preach the worde and mynister the Sacra∣ments bicause Elye and Samuell (being Princes and iudges) did so. And so we see how M. Do∣ctor going about to desend one confusion, bringeth in an other.

Io. Whitgifte.

Here you confesse that which hetherto in your whole booke you haue denied, and* 1.55 that which is in deede the whole grounde of the chiefe matters in controuersie, that is, that the gouernment of the Churche may be diuerse according to the diuersitie of the time and state of the same: as in the time of persecution it may be otherwise gouerned than in time of peace, otherwise when the state is established, than when it is ruynous and in de∣caye, for say you: In a manner alwayes where there was any good and stayed estate of the church these offices were ministred by seuerall persons, and then mette and were mingled, when the estates were very ruynous.

Thus haue you graunted of your owne accorde, that which hitherto you haue so stifly and stoutly denied: such is the might & force of the truth. And yet the church was in good state all Sainuels time, and the moste parte of Elyes also, for any thing that I can reade to the contrarie.

I brought in those examples to proue that these offices haue mette togither, and* 1.56 therefore be not so diuers as you would make them. I do not vse them to this ende, that I would haue a Priest to be a King, you know the state of our question is one∣ly whether Bishops may exercise those ciuill functions of Iusticeship of Peace, and such like, which the Prince committeth vnto them or no, and not whether they may sitte in the Princes throne, and take hir Scepter out of hir hande whether she will or no, as the Pope doth. And therfore whereas you saythat by these exāples of Elye and Samuell, I may as well conclude that Princes may preach the worde and minister the sa∣craments, as Priests and ministers execute cruill offices: I thinke you do not consider that these ciuill offices be but accidents to the priesthode, & therefore may well be remo∣ued, as they were from Samuell, when Saule was chosen King: for Samuell kepte his Priesthoode though he lost his ciuill authoritie: but the Priesthoode is not so to the cyuill magistrate, except he will be ordinarily and lawfully admitted therevnto. I thuike that there is no degree of dignitie that maketh a man vnmeete for the mi∣nisterie, if he be therevnto lawfully called, and haue other giftes méete for the same: wherefore as it followeth not that a minister, in the respect that he is a minister ought to haue a ciuill office, but that he may haue one if he be by the ciuill Magi∣strate therevnto appoynted, so it doth not follow that a ciuill Magistrate ought to be a minister of the woorde, but that he may be if he be méete and therevnto ordinarily and lawfully called and admitted. The Prieste may not take vpon him the office of the ciuill Magistrate, vnlesse he be called lawfully vnto it: nor the ciuill Magistrate may not take vpon him the office of a Priest, vnlesse he be ordinarily therevnto ad∣mitted. And this is no confusion at all.

Chap. 3. the. 10. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 2.

As for Elias killing the false Prophetes, and our Sauiour Christs whippyng out of the temple, it is straunge that M. Doctor will alledge them, as thinges to be followed, when he may as well teach, that we may call for fire from heauen, as Elias did, and beyng demaunded an∣swere nothyng, as our Sauiour did: as to followe these actions whiche are moste singular and extraordinarie. And if these one or two examples be enough to breake the order that God hath sette, by this a man may proue that the mynisters may be fishers, and tente makers, bycause Peter and Paule (beyng ministers) did fishe and make tents. And truely these are not so extraordinary, and from the generall rule as the other be. And it was permitted in a Councell, that rather than a minister should haue two benefices, he might labour with his handes to supply his wante* 1.57 withall.

Io. Whitgifte.

Yet by these examples, & especially by the examples of Christ, it may appeare, that Ecclesiasticall persons haue vsed corporall punishments, which you call ciuill.

I knowe examples make no rule, and therfore al your argumentes out of the scrip∣tures, alleadged before to proue that the election of ministers ought to be popular, re∣ceyue the same answere that you giue to me in this place: and yet examples if they be not agaynst any commaundement, or good order established, declare what hath bene, and what vppon the lyke occasions may be done, but not what of necessitie ought to be doone. If you can proue any order of God sette downe, that an Eccle∣siasticall person may by no meanes exercise any ciuill offices, I yelde vnto you: if you can not do it, then do I alledge no examples tending to the breakyng of any order that God hath set. I knowe not why the ministers of the Gospell may not do as Peter & Paule did vpon the lyke occasion. And therfore your alledging of y^e corrupt Councel of Nice (which not withstanding you haue not 〈◊〉〈◊〉 alleaged) is not necess〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ie. I haue spoken of that Canon before, and therfore will not trouble the Reader with it nowe, being from this purpose.

Chap. 3. the. 11. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 2. 3.

When Sainct Paule willed Tim. that he shoulde not receyue an accusation agaynst an elder, vnder two or three witnesses, he did committe nothing lesse, than any ciuill office vnto him. And M. Doctor himselfe hathe alleadged it before, as a thing incident to the office of a Byshop: and therefore he doth forget himselfe maruellously now, that maketh this a ciuill office.

And doth M. Doctor thinke that S. Paule made magistrates? Or is he of that iudgemente, that the Church in the time of persecution, may make ciuill officers? But it is true, that he that is once ouer the shoes, sticketh not to runne ouer his bootes.

Io. Whitgifte.

I alleadged it before, to proue the superioritie of Bishops ouer other ministers:* 1.58 Now I do alledge it to proue that the same byshops may exercise that iurisdiction which you call ciuill: for in that the iudgement of such causes were committed vnto him, it argueth his superioritie: in that there is named accusers, and witnesses, it de∣clareth a kind of eiuil iurisdiction, to the which those words do perteine. So that Ti∣mothie being an ecclesiastical person had prescribed vnto him that kind of proceeding to iudgement, that may be called ciuill.

Chap. 3. the. 12. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition Page. 218. Sect. 1.

It pleaseth you to say that it is against Gods worde for Byshops to haue prisons, but your margent is very barren of proofes: for you haue not quoted one place of scripture to proue it: onely you say that Popish Eugenius did first bring them in, whiche is a very slender ar∣gument to proue them to be against the word of God. Did not Pe∣ter punish Ananias and Saphira very streightly for their dissimula∣tion. Surely farre more greeuously than if he had put them in pri∣son, and yet their offence was not against any ordinarie law made in the Churche or common weale. But where reade you that Eugenius did first inuent them?

T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. vlt.

And last of all to proue that byshops may haue prisons, he citeth Peter which punished Ana∣nias and Saphira with death, M. Doctor muste vnderstande that thys was 〈◊〉〈◊〉 power, and was done by vertue of that function whyche Sayncte Paule calleth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉,* 1.59 whiche is one of those functions that the Lorde placeth in hys Churche for a tyme. But is thys a good argumente. Bycause Saincte Peter punished with the worde,

therfore the minister may punishe with the sword? And bicause Sainct Peter didde so once, ther∣fore the Bishop may doe so alwaye? And bycause Sainct Peter did that whiche appertayneth to no ciuill magistrate▪ and whyche no ciuill magistrate, by any meanes maye or can doe, therfore the minister maye doe that whyche apperteyneth vnto the Ciuill magistrate? For if there hadde bin a ciuill magistrate, the same coulde not haue punished this faulte of dissimulation whi∣che was not knowne, nor declared it selfe by anye outewarde action: So that if this example proue any thing, it proueth that the minister may doe, that no man may doe, but the Lorde onely, whyche is to punishe faultes that are hidde and vnknowne. If this bee ignorance it is very grosse, and if it be against knowledge, it is more daungerous. I haue determined with my selfe, to leaue vnto M. Doctor his outcryes, and declamations, and if I shoulde haue vsed them as often as he giueth occasion, there woulde be no ende of writing. The Lorde giue M. Doctor eyther bet∣ter knowledge, or better conscience.

Io. Whitgifte.

I vse this example of Peter, to shewe that is not agaynst Gods worde for the mi∣nisters* 1.60 of the Gospell to punishe any by imprisonmente: For Peter béeing a mi∣nister of the Gospell dyd punyshe with death, whiche is muche more than to im∣prison: and as Peter did this lawfully by an extraordinarie power, so maye the ministers of the woorde punishe by imprisonmente whiche is a farre lesse kynde of punishment, beyng lawfully therevnto authorised by the ciuill Magistrate, accor∣dyng to the orders of the common wealth and state of the Churche. Therfore my reason is this: Peter punished with temporall punishement, being a minister of the worde, and he dyd nothing repugnant to his vocation, therfore it is not repug∣nant to the office of a minister of the worde to punishe with temporall punishment. Agayne, Peter punished with death: therfore the minister maye punishe with im∣prisonment: I speake de facto, of the deede done, not de modo, of the maner of doing is. And I doubte not but that séeing it was lawfull for Peter to kill by an especiall and extraordinarie power: so it may be lawfull for the minister of the word to im∣prison, by an vsuall and ordinarie power. And so are all your Collections made in vaine, and framed according to your owne pleasure, not so my meaning. If you haue done it of ignorance, you are to be excused: if of set purpose, you are to be blamed.

And wheras you say, that M. Doctor must vnderstand, that this was ecclesiastical powers* 1.61 I say on the other side that you must vnderstand, that this was not ecclesiasticall but méere ciuill, which you might haue learned of M. Beza in diuers places of his booke de Haereticis à Magistratu pun. For thus he writeth. Cedò igitur, Christus quo iure flagellum his corripuit? quo iure Petrus Ananiam & Sapbiram occidit? quo iure Paulus Elymam excaecauit▪ Num ecclesiastici ministerij? minimè profectò: nisi iurisdictiones confundas. Ergo ciuilis Magistra∣tus iure: Nihil enim est tertium. Tell me therefore, by what lawe did Christ take the whip in hand twise? by what law did Peter kill Ananias and Saphira? by what right did Paule strike Elymas with blindnesse? did they those things by the right of the ecclesiasticall ministerie? no truly, except you will confound iurisdictions. They did it therefore by the right of ciuill magistracie: for ther is no meane. And to the same purpose doth he speake sundry times in that booke.

What outcries I haue vsed, or declamations which you haue not in ample manner requited, adding to the same al opprobrious kind of speaches, and iesting taunts that you could deuise, let the indifferent Reader iudge: wherfore I hartely wish vnto you, both better knowledge, and better conscience.

Chap. 3. the. 13. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 171. Sect. 1.

Unto M. Doctor asking where it appeareth that Pope Eugensus brought in prisons into the Church, as also vnto the three or fower such like demands▪ which he maketh in this booke, the authours of the Admonition answer at once, that this, and the other are found in Pantaleon, and M. Bales Chronicles.

Io. Whitgifte.

What authors doe they alleadge for them? for bothe these be but very late wri∣ters, and this is a matter of historie, and therfore requireth some greate antiquitie nerer vnto the tyme of Eugenius, who liued Anno. 650. but you knowe verie well that our Bishops claim not this authoritie by any constitution or canon of the Pope: neither doe they exercise it in their owne name: but they haue it from the Prince, and in hir name, and by hir authoritie do they vse it.

Chap. 3. the. 14. Diuision.

Bishop of Sarum.

Both these gouernments vvere confounded in Moses. Therfore they may be confounded, and the Priestes of Israell had the iudgement and gouern∣ment* 1.62 of the people, and S. Augustine was troubled with hearing and de∣termining of causes, as it appeareth by Possidonius. And where you say, to be a chief or a ruler is a ciuill gouernment: nay, in ecclesiasticall causes, it is ecclesiasticall gouernment, and not ciuill. And these differences of gouern∣ment* 1.63 may not so vnaduisedly be confounded. This is the key of ecclesia∣sticall correction, and belongerh onely to the ecclesiasticall officer, and to none other. Hereof Saincte Paule sayth, Seniorem ne corripueris nisi sub. &c. Tradi∣di illum Satanae. &. This iurisdiction, is not ciuill but ecclesiasticall, and therfore may be exercised by an ecclesiasticall person.

T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 1. 2.

Here I wyll take in that whiche the Bishop of Sarisburye hath in the last page of his half sheete touching this matter.

And fyrst of all I well agree that he sayth, that to giue vnto Sathan (which is to excommu∣nicate, and to correct an ecclesiasticall person by reprehension, or putting him out of the ministerie, if the cause so require) is mere ecclesiastical, and not ciuill, and that those things ought to be done of the officers of the Churche. This onely I denye, that the ministers ought to medle with ciuill offices. For proofe whereof, the Bishop alleageth the example of Augustine, whiche as Possidonius writeth was troubled with the hearing & determining of causes, Wherin Possido∣nius sayth nothing, but that I willingly agree vnto. For the minister with the elders ought both to heare and determine of causes, but of such causes, as perteyne vnto their knowledge, whereof I haue spoken before. And that Possidomus ment such causes as belonged vnto Augustine, as he was a minister, and not of ciuill affaires, it appeareth by that which he writeth immediatly af∣ter, where he sayth: Being also consulted of by certain in their worldly affaires, he wrote epistles to diuers, but he accounted of this, as of compulsien, and resiraynte from his better busynesses. Wherby it appeareth, that S. Augustine medled not with those worldly affaires, further than by way of giuing counsell, which is not vnlawfull for a minister to doe, as one friende vnto another, so that his ministerie be not therby hindered.

Io. Whitgifte.

What S. Augustine did in such matters, and whether he weroccupied in world∣ly* 1.64 matters or no, and that he was not a counsell giuer only, but also a iudge, it shall best appeare by his owne wordes spoken of himselfe, whiche are so playne and eui∣dent, that after you haue hearde them, you will be ashamed of this answere to Pos∣sidonius, and of your former assertion also. Augustine therefore in his booke de ope∣re* 1.65 Monachorum, of this matter writeth thus: VVho feedeth a flock, and doth not receiue of the milke of the flocke? And yet I call to witnesse vpon my soule the Lorde Iesus, in whose name I doe boldely speake these thinges, that touchyng myne owne commoditie, I hadde rather euerye daye (as it is appoynted in well ordered Monasteries) to woorke some thyng wyth my handes, and to haue the other houres free, to reade, and to praye, or too dooe somme thynge in the Holye Scriptures, than too suffer the

tumultuous perplexities of other mennes causes touchyng secular businesse, eyther in de∣terminyng them by iudging, or in cutting them off by intreatyng: to the whyche trou∣bles* 1.66 the Apostle hathe bounde vs, not by his owne iudgement, but by the iudgement of hym whyche didde speake in him, and yet hee himselfe did not suffer these troubles, for the discourse of his Apostleship was otherwyse. Here in playne woordes hée decla∣reth, that it was secular busynesse aboute the whyche he was occupyed: and al∣though he séeme to complayne of the multitude of suche businesse, yet dothe hee acknowledge the same to bee lawfull, iuste, and conueniente, and therefore he addeth, and sayeth: VVhyche laboure notwythstandyng, wee suffer not without the consolation of the Lorde, for the hope of eternall lyfe, that wee maye bryng foorthe frute wyth pacience: for wee are seruauntes of that Churche, and especially to the weaker members, what members soeuer wee are, in the same bodie. And a little af∣ter hee sayeth, That hee coulde not omitte those businesse, withoute the omittyng of his dutye. To the same effecte dothe he speake in that Treatise that is among his Episiles in number an hundreth and ten, where he desyreth the people that they woulde not moleste hym for the space of fyue dayes wyth theyr worldely matters, by reason of certayne busynesse commytted vnto hym, as it appeareth in these woordes: It pleaseth mee and you, for the care of the scriptures, whych the brethren and fathers, my fellowe Byshops dydde vouchesafe to laye vppon mee in* 1.67 the Councells of Numidia and Carthage, for the space of fyue dayes no man shoulde trouble mee. These thynges were propounded, you were contente, youre decree and consente was rehersed: it was kepte but a small tyme, and afterwardes you did vio∣lently brust in vnto mee, neyther coulde I bee suffered to doe that whyche I woulde: In the forenoone and in the after noone, I am troubled with mennes busynesse: I de∣syre you for Chrystes sake, to suffer me to committe the care of my troubles to Eradi∣us this yong man, and prieste, whome thys daye in the name of Christ, I appoynt to be your bishop and my successour.

Possidonius nameth no elders, but speaketh onely of Augustine, and whosoeuer shall with diligence pervse the nintéenth chapter of Possidonius, shall be enforced to confesse that he meaneth Augustine was occupyed as well in ciuill, as ecclesiasti∣call matters, and in determinyng of them, as in writyng of letters for them, or in giuyng of counsell. Wherefore this example of Augustine is moste fitly alleaged of the Bishop of Sarum, and manyfestly declareth what was the vse in his dayes touching suche matters.

Chap. 3. the. 15. Diuision.* 1.68

T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 2.

And for the truth of thys matter, that ministers oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill affayres, (*) 1.69 I will appeale to no other, than to the Bishop himselfe, who doth assume playnly the same that the admonition here affirmeth.

Io. Whitgifte.

In that place the Bishop of Sarisburie speaketh onely of the Pope, who vsur∣peth* 1.70 the whole and full authoritie of a secular Prince, and doth chalenge the same iure diuino, by the authoritie of Gods worde. He speaketh not of suche Bishops, to whome so muche ciuill authoritie is committed by the Prince, as maye serue to the correction of vice, and good and quyet gouernmente of the Churche: forsomuch as he did himselfe exercyse the same. And surely it is not well done of you, thus to charge that worthie man with contrarieties vniustly. For doth he that confuteth the Popes vniust claime, and vngodly vsurpation of both the swords in that maner y^t he claymeth & vseth them, condemne al maner & kind of ciuil iurisdctiō by christian

Princes committed to Bishops, being helpes vnto them in dooing their duetie, and tendyng to the good and quiet gouernmente of the Churche? Surely you are good in confounding, but too bad in distinguishing: wherefore you haue vntruly re∣ported of that worthie Bishop.

Chap. 3. the. 16. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 3.

And therfore I conclude that forsomuche as (*) 1.71 bothe the holie scriptures do teache, that mini∣sters ought not to meddle with ciuil offices, and reason, and the practise of the Church do confirme it, that they ought to kepe themselues within the limites of the ministerie and ecclesiastical func∣tions, least whylest they breake forth into the callyng of a Magistrate, in stead of shewing them selues 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that is ouerseers, they be founde to declare themselues 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is busy bodies, medlyng in things which belong not vnto them. And thus putting them in remembrance of that whiche they knowe well mough that they ought 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉▪* 1.72 that is to say, studie to adorne that charge whiche they take in hand, and do professe. I leaue to speake any further of this matter.

Io. Whitgifte.

Melchisedech being a Priest did exercise ciuill iurisdiction, for he was king of Sa∣lem.* 1.73 Gen 14. Aaron being a Priest did iudge the whole people in temporall matters euen in causes of inheritance. Num. 27. In the. 17. of Deuteronomie, there is a com∣maundement, that ciuill matters of difficultie shal be referred to the Priests and to the iudge. Elye and Samuel Priests did iudge the people in matters temporall.* 1.74 The people of Israell after theyr captiuitie were gouerned by Priestes and Pro∣phetes, as by Esdras, Nehemias, Mattathias. &c. The Scripture in no place commaundeth the contrarie, nor moueth vnto it, & yet you are not ashamed to say, that the holye scriptures doe teache, that ministers oughte not to meddle with ciuill offices.

Lykewyse in Augustines tyme it is euidente by the woordes before recited,* 1.75 that it was not straunge, but vsuall, and counted a péece of duetie for Bishops to deale in Ciuil causes, and that as Iudges. The authours of the Centuries, in the fourth Centur. chap. 7. say that Bishops in that age did giue sentence in ciuil causes, if anye didde appeale from the Ciuill courtes to their authoritie. Sozomene Lib. 1. cap. 9.* 1.76 wryteth thus of Constantine the Emperour. This was a greate argumente of his good affection towardes Christian religion, that he made a lawe for the freedome of clearkes in all places, and also hee gaue libertie for those that were called into iudgemente to ap∣peale to the Bishops, if they were disposed to refuse the ciuill magistrates: and he com∣maunded that their sentence should stand, and be of more force, than the sentence of the* 1.77 other iudges, euen as though it had proceeded from the Emperour hymselfe. And that the Magistrates and their ministers should see that acomplished, that was determined and iudged in suche causes by the Bishops.

Nicephorns lib. 7. cap. 9. maketh mention of one Philaeas a Bishop, that was great∣ly* 1.78 commended, for his wisedome and dexteritic in determining ciuill matters com∣mitted vnto him. Sozomene lib. 6. cap. 32. testifieth of Epiphanius Bishop of Salamine* 1.79 that together with his pastorall office, he was occupyed, and that with greate com∣mendation in ciuill and politike affaires.

Eusebius lib. 7. cap. 32. testifieth, that Dorotheus being a Priest of the Churche of* 1.80 Antioche, and wel learned, did scrue the Emperour in ciuill businesse.

Theodosius the Emperour made a lawe, wherein it was decréed, that all ciuil stryfes and controuersies shoulde be referred to the iudgemente of the churche, if either* 1.81 of the parties did desire it. And the same lawe did Carolus Magnus, afterwards renew and confirme: and yet doe you saye, that the practise of the churche dothe confirme that

Bishops may not meddle with ciuill offices.

If you flée to reason: is it not good reason, that a Bishop shoulde haue that of∣fice,* 1.82 and that authoritie, that maye helpe hym, in dooing his duelie, in correctyng vice, in procuryng peace, in maynteyning good order, in cuttyng off sectes, schis∣mes, and suche lyke? in accomplyshing all whiche be that séeth not howe muche he is helped by suche ciuill authoritie, as the Prince committeth vnto hym, is ey∣ther voyde of reason, or wilfully blynded.

Wherfore I may moste iustly conclude, that for so muche as the holye Scriptures* 1.83 doe teache, that Ecclesiasticall persons maye meddle with ciuill effices, the practyso of the Churche confirmeth the same, and reason telleth that it is conuenient: and see∣ing that suche as practise them both in the maner and forme before declared, breake not foorth into any other mannes callyng, busy not themselues in things whiche belong not vnto them, but walke in their callyng, occupie themselues in matters incidents vnto it, and do good seruice both to God, their Prince, and their countrey: these offices may very aptely concurre and meete together in one person, and be profitably linked and ioyned together in one man. This did Augustine confesse, and acknowledgeth that the Apostle hath bounde them to these troubles, not by his owne iudgement, but by* 1.84 iudgement of him that did speake in him: as I haue before declared: This haue the godlie Bishops, Cranmer, Ridley, Hooper, &c. consented vnto: this doo the graue, wise and learned Bishops in our tyme in this Churche by experience knowe.

Admonition.

The eightenth. And birds of the same fether, are couetous patrones of benefices, persons, vi∣cars, readers, parish priests, stipēdaries, & riding chaplains, y^t vnder the authoritie of their masters spoile their flocks of y^e food of their soules,(a) 1.85 such seeke not the Lord Iesus, but their own bellies (b) 1.86 cloudes that are without rayne, trees without fruite(c) 1.87 painted sepulchers full of dead bones, fatted in all aboundance of iniquitie, and leane locustes, in all feeling, knowledge and synceritie.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 226. Sect. vlt. &. 227. Sect. 1.

It is true that couetous Patrones of benefices be a great plague* 1.88 to this Church, and one of the principal causes of rude and ignorant ministers. God graunt some speedie reformation in that poynt.

Neyther can I excuse all persons, vicars. &c. but all this is spo∣ken without the booke, and therefore not fitlye of you alleadged a∣gaynst the booke.

T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 4.

Unto the two sections I haue spoken in that which hath bene sayde touching excommunica∣tion, canons, and Prebendaries. &c. And vnto that whyche is conteyned in the. 226. and. 227. I answere that I can not excuse couetous patrones of benefices, but couetous parsones and vi∣cars be a greate pi gue vnto this Churche, and one of the principall causes of rude and igno∣rant people.

Io. Whitgifte.

I confesse that the couetousnesse of some of them one waye, and the contentious∣nesse of some of you an other way, hath done muche harme in the Church, & brought no small hinderance to the Gospell. I pray God open the heartes of all, that euery man may espye his owne deformitie, and be therof ashamed.

T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. vlt.

Lykewise vnto the two next sections, I haue answered before, in speaking against the spirituall courtes, which are now vsed, & vnto the next after that in speakyng of the ordeyning of ministers.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue not answered to this conteined page. 233. I vvill neitheriustifie that vvhich is amisse, nor condemne that vvhich I knovve not. Only this I say, that this taunting spirit of yours seketh rather defamation than reformation, vttereth spitefulnesse of stomacke rather than godlie zeale: for what a deri∣ding of authoritie & disdayn towards the same is this? three of them would

be enough to sting a man to death, for why they are high commissioners. VVhat example haue you of any godly man, that vsed thus to deride and floute magistrates, you say all this springeth out of that Pontificall, whiche you must allow by subscription. &c. But it had bin well if you had tolde vs out of what part of that Pontificall they spring, and how they be thereof ga∣thered. This you passe ouer in silence.

Admonition.

And thus much be spoken as touching this booke, against which to stand, is a wonder to two* 1.89 forts of men, the one ignorant, the other obstinate. The Lord giue those that be his, vnderstanding in all things, that they may haue iudgement: as for the other, whome the God of this world hathe blinded, least they(f) 1.90 should see and confesse the truth, and so be saued, and that do in the full growth of wickednesse, maliciously resist the truth, God confound them, that his peace may be vpon Isra∣ell, and his sauing health vpon this nation.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Page. 234. Sect. vlt.

Nay surely it is a wonder to wise, learned, and godly men, to see this booke so painefully penned, with such aduise perused, and by so long practise allowed, now to be defaced, as it were with friuolous,* 1.91 vnlearned and vnapt reasons, and that by fower sorts of men, Athe∣ists, Papists, and Anabaptists, and as you woulde be counted Puri∣tanes. God of his infinite mercie, giue you charitable, quiet, & thank∣full minds, and eyther conuert your harts, or roote al such disturbers out of this Church, that we may with one hart and mind serue our Lord God.

T. C. Pag. 171. Lin. vlt.

And vnto that which is conteyned in the latter end of the. 234. and the beginning of the. 235. I say that the Church shall iudge of the aptnesse or vnaptnesse of our reasons, & albeit we do fynde fault with diuers things in the booke, yet we neither oppugne as enemies, nor are by the grace of God eyther Papists, Anabaptists, Atheists or Puritanes, as it pleaseth M. Doctor to call vs. And to the prayer against disturbers of the Church, I say with all my heart. Amen.

Io. Whitgifte.

I would to God you did not oppugne it as enimies. &c. Surely then would not your fiercenesse nor your bitternes of speach haue bin such as it is: But God forgiue you, and to the prayer I say agayne. Amen, Amen.

Admonition.

If this be not playne inough by that which is already set foorth, we mind by Gods grace to make it playner, and shoulde do it better, if it were as lawfull for vs (as for our aduersaries) to publish our mindes in print, then should appeare what slender stuffe they bring that are so impu∣dent by open writing to defend it. And if it might please hir Maiestie, by the aduise of you righte Honorable, in this high Court of Parliament, to heare vs by writing or otherwise, to defend our∣selues, then (such is the equitie of our cause) that we would trust to find fauoure in hir Maiesties sight: then those patched Pamphlets, made by sodeine vpstarts, and new conuerts, should appeare in their colours, and truth haue the victorie, and God the glory: if this cannot be obteyned, we will by Gods grace addresse ourselues to defende his truthe by suffering, and willingly lay our heads to the blocke. And this shall be our peace, to haue quiet consciences with our God, whome we will abide for, with all patience, vntill he make our full deliuerance.

Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 243.

And I will not spare my laboure from time to time to vtter my mind and conscience in these matters: protesting that if by learning you can perswade me, I will say agayne with Augustine, Errare possum, baereticus esse nolo. All the rest of your stoute and suspitious braggs, of your vndecent and vnseemely words, I let passe, and leaue them to be con∣sidered as notes of your spirit and modestie. The Queenes Maie∣stie may assure hir selfe that she hath of learned men a number suffi∣cient, able by learning to mainteine both hir authoritie and lawes

which hir Maiestie hath hitherto vsed, and made for the further〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e of the Gospell, and mainteyning of good order and peace in the Church. The Lord of his infinite goodnesse long preserue hir, and giue vs thankfull hearts to God for hir.

T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 1.

Unto the next section I haue answered in the treatise of the apparell. And vnto the next af∣ter, in the treatise which declareth to whome it doth appert〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ine to make ceremonies and orders of the Church. And vnto the section contayned in the. 243. page I say that M. Doctor being asked of oynions, auswereth of garlike. For the Authours of the Admonition, desiring that it might be as lawfull for them to published by print their minds, or to be heard dispute, or that their mind put in writing might be openly debated, M. Doctor answereth with Augustines sentence (which he hath made the fote of his song) nothing to the purpose, of that which they says, the performance of which promise we will notwithstanding wait for.

Io. Whitgifte.

Why? what haue they sayd there worth the answering, that I haue not directly answered vnto? they boast of their writing and of their disputing: And I tell them that I will not spare my laboure from time to time, to vtter my mind and consciēce in these matters also. What other answer would you haue me to make vnto them? The saying of S. Augustine commeth in due place: you call it the foote of my song, and I am very well content you should so do, for I intend to sing that song, so long as I liue, neither can any mislike it, but such as either be, or intende to be herelikes. I purpose God willing to performe all the promises that I haue made, and when I shrinke from any of them, let me heare of it.

Admonition.

For the Articles, concerning the substance of doctrine, vsing a godly interpretation in a poynte* 1.92 or two, which are eyther too sparely, or else too darkely set downe, we were and are ready, accor∣ding to duetie to subscribe vnto them. We would to God that as they hold the substance togither with vs, and we with them, so they would not denie the effect and vertue thereof: then shoulde not our words and works be deuorced, but Christ should be suffered to reigne, a true ministerie accor∣ding to the word instituted, discipline exercised. Sacraments purely and sincerely ministred: thys is that we striue for, and about which we haue suffered, (k 1.93) not as euill doers, but for resisting po∣perie, and refusing to be stoong with the tayle of Antichristian infection, ready (l 1.94) to render a reason of our fayth, to the stopping of all our enimies mouthes. We therefore for the Churche of Gods sake, whiche ought to be most deare vnto you, beseech you, for our soueraignes sake, vpon whome we pray that all Gods blessing may be poured abundantly, we pray you to consider of these abu∣ses, to reforme Gods Church according to your duties and callings: that as with one mouth we confesse one Christe, so with one consent this reigne of Antichriste, may be turned out headlong from amongst vs, and Christ our Lord may reygne by hys word ouer vs. So your seates shal be established and setled in great assurance, you shall not neede to feare your enimies, for God wyll turne away his threatned plagues from vs, which he in mercy do for his Christes sake. Amen.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 245. 246.

It is very well, that you so like of the articles, but yet it pleaseth* 1.95 you not to subscribe vnto them: you say bycause of a point or two which are ey∣ther too sparely, or else too darkly set downe: but indeede your meaning is to subscribe to nothing, which by authoritie you are required to do, and that argueth an arrogant mind, and a disposition that loueth alway to be singular.

You note in the margente that the right gouernmēt of the Church* 1.96 can neuer be separated from the doctrine: but by your owne confessiō we haue the doctrine, Ergo of necessitie we also haue the righte go∣uernment. Here in few words you haue cast downe whatsoeuer you seemed before to build, so do commonly vnskilfull builders.

I would to God that for so much as (contrary to your former as∣sertion)

you now confesse that we haue the veritie of doctrine, you could be content to say, downe great heart, and submit your selues to the Queenes Maiestie, and hir lawes, according to your dutie: then no doubt Christ should without resistance reigne in this Church, and the frutes of the Gospell would much more appeare.

You bragge much of your suffering, you are little beholding to* 1.97 your neighbours, when you are thus constreyned to prayse your selues. But I pray you whether dothe he persecute that modestly and soberly defendeth the truthe, or he that vnlawfully reuengeth hymselfe, with rayling and backbi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ing? you loue very well to haue the worlde knowe howe greatly you be persecuted, and therefore if one of you here in Cambridge be punished but twenty pence for his open contempte of statutes to the whiche he is sworne, in post hast it is carried into all quarters, and especially to London, where greate complaynte is made of this greeuous persecution, when as you and your disciples, cease not (as I sayde) moste falsely and slaunderously to reporte of suche as executing good lawes, dis∣charge theyr conscience to God, and their duetie towardes the Prince.

We therefore exhorte you, if there be any feare of God before your eyes, any reuerence towards the Prince, any desire of promoting the Gospell, any louing affection towardes the Church of Christe, to submit your selues according to your dueties to godly orders, to leaue off contentiousnesse, to ioyne with vs in preaching of the word of God, and beating downe the kingdome of Antichriste, that thys your diuision procure not Gods wrath to be poured vpon vs.

T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 2.

Here M. Doctor contrary to the pretestation of the authours of the Admonition, whiche de∣clare that for the abuses and corruptions, they dare not simply subscribe, saithe, that therefore they will not subscribe, bycause they are required by lawfull authoritie, which how both presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is, let all men iudge, especially vpon this matter, whiche hath bin declared. And where M. Doctor would vpon y^• marginal note pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, y^t we haue good discipline, bycause we haue good doctrine, & ther vpon doth wonderfully triumph, he playeth as he of whome it is said 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that is hauing gotten nothing holdeth it fast. For can M. Doctor be so ignorant, that this manner of speach (doctrine and discipline cannot be s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ue∣red) is vsed of that that they ought not to be seuered▪ when as we say (following S. Paule) that we can do nothing against the truth, do we not meane that we ought to do nothing or can do no∣thing lawfully against it? And do not all men know when we say that a man cannot be separated from his wife, but for the cause of A〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ultery, that we meane he ought not, or he cannot lawfully? Therefore this is (as all men may see) a meere cauill and triumph ouer his owne shadow. There is no bragge of suffering made by the authours of the Admonition. The modestie wherwith he hath defended this cause, cannot be hidden. That he would haue other men punished for well do∣ing, when he is not content that the open wrongs which he doth, should be once spoken of, I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is.

Io. Whitgifte.

I speake of their denying to subscribe to the Articles concerning the substance of doctrine, which they confesse to be sound vsing a godly interpretation in a poynt or two. &c. what other abuses so euer there be in the booke of common prayer, or in the Church, yet that is no sufficient cause, why they shoulde refuse to subscribe to the truth of do∣ctrine professed in this Church, and conteyned in those Articles. Wherefore séeing

they confesse them to be sound, and yet denie to subscribe, who can otherwise iudge of them, than I haue signifyed in my Answer.

I acknowledge my selfe to be ignorante that in this and suche like phrases thys* 1.98 word Can, is taken for ought. When Saint Paule saithe, that we can do nothing a∣gainste the truth, he meaneth simply as he speaketh, and doth not there vse Can, for ought. For indeede we can do nothing against the truth, though we do the worst we can. It is no vsuall phrase, but an vnproper kind of speach to say, that a man cannot do a thing, when he should say that he ought not to do it, except he adde some thing, as he cannot do it lawfully, or well, or orderly, and such like. Wherefore my dulnesse is such that I cannot vnderstande suche darke speaches, vntill they be interpreted, and yet whether they woulde so interprete themselues or no, it maye be doubted.

If they bragge not of persecution, wherevnto tende these wordes of theirs, this is that we striue for, about which we haue suffered, not as euill doers. &c. and quote in the margent to proue it. 1. Pet. 3. as though they were persecuted by infidels?

How immodest soeuer I am in defending this cause, yet if it be compared eyther to* 1.99 their passing bitternesse, or to your spitefull speaches, and vnséemely tauntes and iestes, I shall appeare tootoo simple: and although I must néedes say thus much, that disturbers of the common peace of the Churche, and Schismatikes, deserue to be with sharpe wordes reproued, yet haue not I vsed that sharpenesse and bitternesse, whyche diuerse learned menne bothe olde and newe haue vsed in the lyke case.

If I haue done any man wrong let him come foorth and proue it, and I will ren∣der vnto him quadruple.

T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 3.

Finally as you exhort vs to submitte ourselues to good order, whiche haue bin alwayes, and yet are ready to do: to leaue to be contentious, which neuer yet began: to ioyne with you in prea∣ching the word of God, which haue stopped our mouthes, and will not suffer vs to preache: so we exhort you in Gods behalfe, and as you will once answer it before the iust iudge, that you will not willingly shut your eyes against the truth, that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you, you kicke not against it? Wherefore we pray you to take heede, that neither the desire of keeping your wealth and honoure which you are in, nor the hope which you may haue of any further promotion, nor yet the care of keeping your estimation, by mainteining that whiche you haue once set downe, nor the sleighey suggestion of craftie and wyly Papists, do driue you to stumble against this truth of God, which toucheth the gouernment of his Church, and the purging of those corruptions whiche are amongst vs, knowing that you cannot stumble vpon the word of God, but foorthwith you runne yourselfe against Christ, which is the rocke. And you know that he will not giue back, but brea∣keth all to fitters, whatsoeuer that rusheth against him.

Io. Whitgifte.

You do not submit your selues to the order of the Church, which is a good and de∣cent order: you haue filled the Churche with maruellous contentions, and haue strangely deuided, euen such as professe the Gospell: your mouthes are not stopped but through your owne procuring.

I do not withstand that which you vntruly call the truth, for any such cause as you surmise, (God who seeth my hart knoweth) but bycause I sée these your deuises to be set downe by you without any sufficient warrant in the word of God: agaynste the practise and order of the primitiue Churche, tending also to daungerous errours, and meere confusion both of the Church and of the common wealth.

T. C. Page. 172. Sect. vlt.

And if the matter herein alleadged, do not satisfye you, then I desire euen before the same GOD, that you confute it, not by passing ouer thynges whyche you can not

answer, or by stauing both the words and the meaning of the booke, and taking your owne fansie to confuce, or by wrougling with the fault of the print, or by carping at the translation, when the wordes being changed the sense remayneth, or by alleadging that such a one, or such another was of this or that iudgement, as you for the most part (hauing nothing but his bare name) haue done. All whiche thinges you haue committed in this booke▪ but that you confute it, by the authoritie of the worde of God, by good and sound reasons, wholy, and not by peecemeale. And if you bring the practise of the churches, we desire that it may be out of authorities which are extant, which are not counterfeyte, and which were in the best and purest times. And if you thinke that the credite of your Doctor ship or Deanry will beare out that which you cannot answer your selfe, besides that (*) 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, is neuer shut▪ remember M. Doctor that lighte is come into tht worlde, and* 1.100 men will not be deluded with nothing, nor abused with visards, neyther let it embolden you which peraduenture hathe made poli presume the more in▪ this booke) to write any thing vppon hope, that no man dare answer it. For neyther the Queenes Maiestie nor hir honorable counsell, as we are perswaded, will deale so sharply with those, whome they know to be faithfull, and lawfull sub∣iects, which pray that all the treasures of Gods wisedome may be poured vpon them: neither haue we cause to thinke, but that as the euill opinion which is in part conceiued of vs, hath growen vp∣pon false and vntrue informations, whiche you and such other haue giuen in crying in their eares, that we be Anabaptists, conspired with Papists, Puritanes, Donatists, bringers in of confusion and anarchy, enimies to ciuill gouernment, and I know not what: euen so when hir Maiestie, and their honours shall vnderstand how farre we are from those wicked opinions, they will leaue that opinion of vs▪ and rather esteeme of vs, by that we haue preached, taught, and now write, than that whiche other men report of vs, being thinges which we neuer taught▪ spake, or so much as drea∣med of.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is so farre from satisfying me in any point, that it greatly confirmeth me in some thing, where vnto before I did but incline. Such is the weakenesse of your grounds.

Your request made vnto me is against all reason, for how can you require that of* 1.101 me towarde you, which you haue in no respect perfourmed towards me? for firste, you haue not set downe my booke, that the Reader mighte perceiue, how vprightly you deale with me: secondly, you haue passed ouer many thinges and left them vn∣answered: Thirdly, you haue vnreasonably wrested my words, and in most places you do nothing but wrangle: you haue mangled my booke, and so skipt from place to place, that the Reader shall hardly perceine, what you take or what you leaue: to be short, you haue vsed few scriptures, and those vntollerably wrested. How then can you require the contrary of me? But I haue satisfied your request to the full I trust: saue only I do not intend to learne of you how to answer, what authoritie to vse, but if the authorities and reasons that I bring shall be sound to be light, they shall the more easily by you be remoued.

I depend not vppon the credit of my Doctorship or Deanry, neither would I wish you too much to trust to the opinion of your owne learning and witte: I say with Sainte Augustine, Let scripture be compared with scripture, reason with reason, authoritie with authoritie, cause with cause, and let vs both according to the same be iudged.

I doubte not of the answering of my booke, neyther do I feare it: you knowe that* 1.102 I haue offered you diuerse tymes this kind of conference, though not in thys pub∣like manner. I haue spoken nothing agaynste you, before hir maiestie, whyche your bookes and doings, haue not proued to be true. Hir Maiestie and their ho∣nours know what they haue to do, the Lord blisse them with his holy spirit, and in all their doings guide them.

Of the additions, detractions, and alterations made by the admonitors in both the partes of the Admonition.

T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 1.

Beside that often thne〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 M. Doctor doth account the expositions and explanations, correcti∣ons, he 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ueth vs somewhat the lesse hope, that he will correct his errours, for that he purfueth the authours of the Admonition so harde, correcting their very small and few slips, whiche they haue made, calling this singular 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉destie and commendable hum〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tie amongst other reproches, dalying and inconstancie, when it is our profession euery day to learne better things. For vnto what end should we liue, if time, if experiēce, if reading, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉iusing, if conference should teach vs nothing? And therefore when thinges are printed againe, it is good and prayse worthy, to polishe those thynges which are some what rud〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, to mitigate these things which are too sharpe, to make playne & to giue light to those things which seeme darker, and to correct that which is amisse. I thinke M. Doctor should not be ignorante, that wise men haue their 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, there second councells, and those also wiser and better than their first, as that sentence doth declare. I will therefore say no more hereof, but admonish M. Doctor that he receiue more louingly those whiche correcte themselues, seing that the best defense to his booke, must be, not a correction here and there, but a cleane blotting, or striking out, not an amending, but a new making almost of his whole booke. O∣ther matter in his censures, he hath almost none at all woorth the answering, sauing that he hathe a place or two, which toucheth the matters before entreated of.

Io. Whitgifte.

It behoueth such as will take vpon them to plucke downe that which is wel buil∣ded,* 1.103 and to make a new platforme, to be well aduised what they do, and assured of their cunning: if this ought to be in humane matters, and in externall affaires of the life of man, how much more ought it to be in diuine matters, and things perteyning to the kingdome of heauē. I do not mislike that modestie and humilitie, that is con∣tente to be corrected, and to acknowledge that whiche is ami〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e. But I can by no meanes allowe that pryde and arrogancie, that presuming to condemne the whole state of a Churche, and to prescribe vnto the same a newe platforme, is by and by after, through vnskilfulnesse, and lack of discretion at the first, constreyned to misse∣lyke that newe platforme also, and to p〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ce it and patch it like a beggers cloke, with putting too and taking fro, with altering and chaunging sometyme this, and some∣tyme that, like vnto foolishe and vnskilful buylders. It behoueth suche as will take vpon them in church matters to pluck downe that which is alreadie buylded, and to prescribe a new platforme, to be certain of their 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ing, expert in their doings, groū∣ded in learning and experience: not yonglings and nouices, whose yea to day is nay to morow, whose heads are full of new toys and deuises, who publish in print their first cogitations and counsels, before they haue any leysure to thinke of their second. This is that whiche I misselyke, and reproue in the authors of the Admonition: for* 1.104 if they had published their myndes as scholars, and not as maisters: as learners, not as teachers: as putters in mynde of that whiche best liked themselues, not as prescribers what all other men ought of duetie to followe, theyr sodaine correcti∣ons had bene much more tollerable. But I will not multiplie wordes with you, neyther will I require that whiche you contemptuously enoughe haue spoken of my selfe, only I admonishe the Reader to take héede howe he doth credite such rashe and yong buylders, whiche so soone as they haue ended their buylding, must be con∣strayned to plucke downe the same agayne.

Ansvvere to the Additions, detractions. &c. of the fyrst parte of the Admonition.

In the preface, to Archbishops, Byshops, Suffraganes, Deanes. &c. they haue* 1.105 added Vniuersitie Doctors, and Bachelers of diuinitie. It should seeme that they would haue a confusion of degrees (which they call equalitie) as well in vniuersities, as in Parishes, and other their imagined congrega∣tions: marke whether this geare tend not to the ouerthrow of vni∣uersities, and of all good learning.

T. C. Pag. 173. tovvards the ende of the first Section.

For whereas he accuseth the Authors of the Admonition in the first leafe, as though they should condemne Doctors and Bachlers of diuinitie, and so bring in confusion of degrees, he vpon the. 5. leafe confesseth that they allow of a Doctor. Although he that taketh away degrees of Doctor or Bachler of diumine, doth not bring in confusion, nor taketh not away all degrees of schooles, espe∣cially seeing they are now made bare names without any offices, and oftentymes they are admitted to these degrees, which neyther can, nor will teach.

Io. Whitgifte.

I say that belike they allowe of a Doctor of law, bicause they haue left that title out in their seconde edition: and haue in stead thereof placed Doctors, and Bachlers of diuinitie. The cause why you leaue so much vnto them in this barbarous opinion,* 1.106 may be coniectured, to be the repulse that you suffered when you earnestly desired the one of them. If the degrées be bestowed vpon vnworthie persons (which you are not able to proue at this day) the fault is in the persons that so bestow them, not in the de∣grees, the taking away whereof, must néedes in the ende bring in confusion and bar∣barisme: and in déede they can by no meanes stand with your platforme, and there∣fore do you here insinuate that you are content to allow all the degrées in schooles, but onely the degrées in diuinitie, and yet as I sayde before, not long since you greatly de∣sired euen the highest of them.

Additions, detractions, and alterations in the first part of the Admonition.

In the Preface.

In the margent, for the. 15. of Mathew. vers. 23. they haue quoted the. 15. of Math. vers. 13. to proue that tyrannous Lordship cannot stand with Christs kingdome: the wordes be these: But he ansvve∣red and sayd, enery plant vvhich my father hath not planted, shall be rooted vp, meaning that such as be not by free adoption and grace grafted in Jesus Christ, shall be rooted vp. But this proueth not their propo∣sition: I do not alow tyrannous Lordship, but I disallow such vnapt reasons.

In the same Preface speaking of Bishops. &c. they haue added these wordes: they were once of our minde, but since their consecration they be so transubstantiated, that they are become such as you see. It may be that considera∣tion of the tyme, place, state, condition, and other circumstances hath altered some of them in some poynts, as wise (and not wilfull) men in such matters by such circumstances be oftentimes altered: but that any one of them were euer of your minde in most things vttered in those two treatises, I can not be perswaded.

Fol. 1.

For the. 1. Act. vers. 12. is noted. Act. 2. vers. 2〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. to proue that in the olde Church there was a try all had both of the Ministers abilitie to instruct, and of their godly conuersation also. The text is this: And it shall be that vvhosoeuer shall call on the name of the Lorde shall be saued. Which is farther frō the purpose a great deale, than the other place is. There is also in the same leafe left out, King Edwards Priests: whiche* 1.107 argueth with howe little discretion, and lesse aduise, the first Admo∣nition was pe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed.

Speaking of learning master Nowels Catechisme, these wordes be added: and so first they consecrate them, and make them Ministers, and then they set them to schoole. This scoffe is answered before, and might very well* 1.108 haue bene left out. And a little after, where it was before, then election

was made by the common consent of the whole Church: now it is thus corrected,* 1.109 then election was made by the Elders, with the common consent of the whole Churche: which altereth the matter something, but yet is not proued by the text alleaged out of the first of the Acts, and by me answered before.

Fol. 2.

For Act. 14. verse. 13. is quoted Act. 14. verse. 23. which ouersight I my selfe haue corrected in my answere to that place.

There is also left out an Albe, which before was sayde to be required* 1.110 by the Pontificall in the ordering of ministers. As I sayde before, so I say agayne, that in the booke of ordering ministers, now vsed, and printed since Anno dom. 1559. there is neyther required albe, surples, vestiment, nor pastorall staffe.

This lyne is also added, these are required by their Pontifical, meaning sur∣plesse, vestiment. &c. which is vntrue, as I haue sayde before.

For the. 1. Tim. 1. verse. 14. nowe it is. 1. Tim. 1. verse. 19. but it is not to proue any matter in controuersie, onely it is vncharitably and vniustly applyed.

For. 1. Sam. 9. verse. 28. is placed. 1. Sam. 9. verse. 18. the selfe same place that I haue answered before.

Where before it was thus written: Then ministers were not so tyed to any forme of prayers inuented by man: nowe these wordes inuented by man be lefte out, and there is added, as necessitie of tyme required, so they mighte poure. &c. I knowe not their meaning, excepte they woulde neyther haue vs bounde to the Lordes prayer, nor any other.

Fol. 3.

It was before, remoue Homilies, Articles, Iniunctions, a prescript order: nowe* 1.111 it is that prescript order. Wherby it should seeme that they haue learned to allowe of a prescript order of prayers, but not of that prescript or∣der which is in the booke of publike prayers. This is no dallying, neyther yet inconstancie.

For the. 3. of Mat. ver. 12. is placed. 3. of Mat. ver. 1. to proue that in the olde time the word was preached before the sacramēts were mi∣nistred: the place now alleaged is this: In those dayes Iohn the Bap∣tist came and preached in the vvildernesse of Iudea. This proueth that Iohnpreached, but it proueth not, that whensoeuer Iohn did bap∣tise, then he did preache.

Oueragaynst these words, the Nicene creede was not read in their cōmunion,* 1.112 is written in the margent, Note that we condemne not the doctrine conteyned therein. If you condemne not the doctrine therin, what do you then cō∣demne? or why mislike you the cōmunion, bicause that creede con∣teyning true doctrine is read at the celebration therof? It is well that you make this protestation, if you meane good fayth.

Here is also added the. 42. ver. Act. 2. to proue that then the sacra∣ment was ministred with cōmon & vsual bread: which place I haue answered before, in answering to the. 46. verse of that chapter.

Where as before it was thus, interrogatories ministred to the Infant, Godfa∣thers* 1.113 and Godmothers brought in by Higinus: nowe Godfathers and Godmothers brought it by Higinus is left out. It is happy that you are sosoone persua∣ded to

allow of godfathers and godmothers: I perceyue you tooke vpon you to set downe a platforme of a Church, before you had well considered of it.

Fol. 4.

For, some one of the congregation, is nowe, some of the congregation: wherby they seeme to allowe mo godfathers than one, whiche they dyd not before.

For the. 14. of the Acts, verse. 4. is noted the. 15. of the Acts, vers. 4. to proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Church with the rest of the ministers: but without reason. For it is onely there written, that at Ierusalem there was Apostles and Elders, & that Paule and Barnabas declared vnto them what things God had done by them. I denie not the thing it selfe (whereof I haue suffici∣ently spoken before) but the argument.

These Seniors then bicause their charge was not ouer muche, did execute their office in their owne persons: Nowe these words, bicause their charge was not ouer much be lefte out. Wherfore they haue left them out I knowe not.

Fol. 5.

They haue lefte out Doctors three tymes in this leafe, whiche be∣fore they recited with Chauncelors, Archdeacons, Officials, Com∣missaries,* 1.114 Proctors. Belyke they haue remembred that this worde Doctor, is founde in the newe Testament, and especially Doctor of lawe.

To proue equalitie of ministers, they haue added Phil. 1. verse. 1. 1. Thes. 1. 1. The first place is this, Paule and Timotheus the seruaunts of Iesus Christ to all Saincts in Christ Iesus that are at Philippi, vvith the Bishops and Deacons. The seconde is this: Paule and Syluanus and Timotheus vnto the Church of the Thessalonians. &c. Truely I knowe not howe to conclude of those places an equalitie of all ministers: I would to God you would set downe your places, and frame your arguments yourselues.

Fol. 6.

They haue forgotten to quote Heb. 6. 1. and haue left out the body and* 1.115 braunche of Antichrist, and for the same haue put in the tayle: But these are but trifles, and very slender corrections.

Io. Whitgifte.

To all these there is nothing sayde, belike the Authors of the Admonition muste answere for them selues, or else prouide another Proctor.

Ansvvere to the additions. &c. of the seconde parte of the admonition.

Fol. 2.

For the first of Tim. 3. verse. 3. nowe they haue quoted. 1. Tim. 3. verse. 6. agaynst reading ministers: Where S. Paul would not haue a minister to be a yong scholer: but he speaketh nothing agaynst reading.

T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 2.

Unto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the Admonition, M. Doctor sayth that bicause the. 3. to Titus, maketh not agaynst reading, therfore it maketh not agaynst reading ministers, that is, ministers that can doe nothing but reade.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is in the. 1. Tim. 3. and it maketh agaynst vnlearned Ministers, not agaynst the reading of Ministers: for he may be a reading Minister, and yet learned.

Ansvvere to the Detractions. &c.

It was before reading is not feeding, nowe it is thus amended, for* 1.116 bare reading of the worde, and single seruice saying, is bare feeding: whereby they now confesse, that reading is feeding, although it be (as they say) but bare feeding. We were in good case if the platforme of our Church depended vpon these men, which alter their iudgements so sodenly. It is a true saying, Conueniet nulli qui secum dissidet ipse. Hovve can he agree vvith other, that doth not agree vvith himselfe?

T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. vlt.

And where as he would picke out a contradiction in the wordes of the Admonition, bicause they say bare reading is but bare feeding, the discord is in his cares, not in their wordes. For when they sayde it was no feeding, they ment such feeding as could saue them, and so in calling it bare feeding, they note that there is not (*) 1.117 inaugh in that, to keepe them from famishment. And indeede vnlesse the Lord worke miraculously and extraordinarily (which is not to be looked for of vs) the bare rea∣ding of the scriptures without the preaching, cannot deliuer so much as one poore shepe frō destruc∣tion, and from the wolfe. And if some haue bene conuerted wonderfully, yet. M. D. should remem∣ber that 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. That is, the water doth not alway beare yron.

Io. Whitgifte.

Reading is not feeding, and reading is beare feeding, be both vntruthes, and derogate from the Maiestie and dignitie of the worde of God: but yet in these speaches there is contrarietie, for bare féeding is féeding. What they ment by, not feeding, their words following doe declare, for (say they) it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse to. &c.* 1.118 whereof I haue spoken before. But whilst-you go about to excuse them of contrarie∣tie, you fall into it your selfe, for page. 158. of your booke, comparing the reading of the Scriptures, with reading of Homilies, yeu say, that the worde of God is also plaine and easie to be vnderstanded, & such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiots and to the simple. &c. And now you say, that there is not enough in the reading of the scrptures, to keepe the people from famish∣ment. &c. the which how farre it differeth, from your former words, no man is so blind* 1.119 that can not sée. Beside this, it is a Popish, and an vngodly opinion, contrarie to the worthinesse and profitablenesse of the Scriptures: contrarie to the wordes of Christ* 1.120 Iohn. 5. Search the Scripture, &c. contrarie to the wordes of the Apostle. 2. Tim. 3. Omnis* 1.121 scriptura diuinitùs inspirata. &c. And contrarie to all that, that I haue alleaged before for the reading of the Scriptures, to the which for the further confutation of this vn∣godly error, I do referre the Reader.

Ansvvere to the Detractions, &c.

Fol. 3.

Iu the same leafe and fift reason, to these wordes: Besides, that we neuer reade in the new Testament that this worde (Priest) as touching office is vsed in the* 1.122 good part: In the seconde edition is added, except it speake of the Leuiticall Priesthoode or of the Priesthood of Christ. Here as I thinke they haue for∣gotten that which Peter speaketh to all Christians, in his. 1. Epist. cap. 2. ver. 5. And ye as lyuely stones be made a spirituall house and holy Priesthod to offer vp spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God, by Iesus Christ. & ver. 9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood. &c. And Apo. 1.

And make vs Kings and Priests vnto God &c. I willed them before to shew me one place in the whole newe Testament, where this word Priest as touching the office, is takē in euill part: I may be deceyued, but I desire to learne.

T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 1.

And vpon the. 3. leafe, where he giueth instance in the Apocalips of the word (Priest) to be taken otherwise, than for the Leuitical priesthood, and priesthood of our sauiour Christ. M. D. cannot be ignorant that the Admonition speaketh of those which be priests in deed, & properly, and not by those which are priests by a inctaphore and borowed speach. And wheras he desireth to learne where the worde, priest, is taken in euill part in all the new testament. Although all men see how he asketh this question of no mind to learne, yet if he will learne (as he sayth) he shall find that in (*) 1.123 the Acts of the Apostles it is taken diuers times in euill part. For seing that the office & function of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that is, of priests was (after our sauiour christs ascētion) naught & vngodly: the name wherby they were called, which did exercise that vngodly function, cannot be otherwise takē than in the euil part.

Io. Whitgifte.

And what say you to the places of S. Peter, is not this worde (priest) taken in good part there also? I desired to haue one place in all the new Testamēt named vnto me, where this word priest is taken in euil part, & you send me ouer to the Acts of the Apostles naming neither text nor chapter: & yet that satisfieth not my request, for the Authors of the Admonition in their corrections, except the Leuitical priesthood, and the priesthood of Christ, whereof onely there is mention made in the Actes of the Apostles, except it be in the. 14. of the Acts, where Luke speaketh of heathnish priests, as of the priest of Jupiter: so that my question is as yet vnanswered by you.

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c.

Fol. 5.

But of the Bishops benediction by laying on of his handes heare master Caluines iudgement in this Instit. cap. 19. Section. 4. Talem manu∣um* 1.124 impositionem quae simpliciter loco benedictionis fiat, laudo, & restitutam hodiè in purum vsum velim. Such imposition of handes as is simplie made in the stead of blessing, I do commende, and vvish that it vvere restored at this day to the pure vse. There shall you also read the verie self same forme and maner of con∣firmation allowed, which is now vsed in this Church of England.

T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 2.

Master Doctor vpon the. 5. leafe, cyteth M. Caluins authoritie to proue that the laying on of the handes vpon yong children, & the confirmation which is here vsed is good. In the which place, although he allow of a kinde of confirmation, yet he doth not commend〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 that which we haue. For he doth plainly reproue Ierome, for saying that it came from the Apostles, which notwithstanding the confirmation with vs doth affirme. Besides that there are other abuses which I haue noted there, which M. Caluin doth not by any worde allow. He alloweth indeede of a putting on of handes of the children, when they come out of their childehoode, or begin to be yong men, but as well as he doth allow of it, he was one of those which did thrust it out of the Chuch where he was Pastor. And (*) 1.125 so he alloweth of it, that he bringeth (in the sixt Section of the same Chapter) a strong reason to abolish it. Where he asketh what the imposition of handes shoulde do now, seeing that the giftes of the holy Ghost by that ceremonie is ceased. Therefore seeing that we haue M. Caluins reason agaynst this imposition of handes, his name ought not to be preiudiciall vnto vs: especially seeing that we haue experience of great inconuemences which come by it, which maister Caluin could not haue, that thing being not in vse in that Church where he liued. Which inconue∣nience in things which are not necessarie, ought to be a iust cause of abolishing of them: And this is not my indgement onely, but the iudgement of the Churches of Heluetia, Berne, Tigurine, Ge∣neua, Scotlande, and diuers others as appeareth in the. 19. Chap. of their confession.

Io. Whitgifte.* 1.126

Here you would shift of M. Caluins authoritie if you knew how: but béeing ouer∣pressed with his manifest wordes, you flie to your common & vsual refuge, that is,

to discredite the Authour, by charging him with contrarieties in this matter: for you confesse that he alloweth a kind of confimation: you say also that he alloweth in deed of a put∣ting on of handes of the children, when they come out of their childhoode or begin to be yong men: and againe you affirme: that he was one of those, that did thrust it oute of the Churche where he was Pastor: and that he bringeth in the 6. Section of the same Chapter a strong reason to abolish it. Thus you set Master Caluine against himselfe, and that in the same* 1.127 Chapter, which cannot but turne to his great discredite, if it were true: but you greatly abuse both the Reader and him: for in the. 4. section which I haue alledged, he speaketh of that maner of confirmation & imposition of handes which was vsed in the olde Church, and the same that is nowe vsed in the Church of Englande, which he alloweth and wisheth restored: In the fifth and sixth sections he speaketh of the maner and forme of confirmation, and laying on of handes vsed by the Papists, and disproueth that: as his owne wordes, (which I haue for that purpose more at large set downe) do plainly declare: for in the fourth Section of the. 19. Chapter thus hee wryteth. This was the maner in tymes past, that the children of Christians shoulde bee* 1.128 set before the Bishop, after they were come to yeares of discretion, that they might per∣forme that, which was required of them, that being of age did offer themselues to baptisme. For these sat among the Catechumeni, vntill (being rightly instructed in the mysteries of fayth) they were able to vtter a confession of their fayth, before the Bishop and the peo∣ple. The insants therefore that were baptised, bicause then they made no confession of* 1.129 fayth in the Church: at the ende of their childehoode, or in the beginning of their youth, they were againe presented of their parents, and were examined of the Bishop, according to a certaine and common forme of a Catechisme. And to the intent that this action (which otherwise ought of right to be graue and holy) might haue the greater reuerence and esti∣mation, there was added also the ceremonie of laying on of handes, so the childe was dis∣missed, his fayth being approued with a solemne blessing. The auncient fathers make often mention of this order. Pope Leo, If any man returne from heretikes, let him not againe be baptised, but let the vertue of the spirite (which was wanting) be giuen vnto him by the laying on of the Bishops handes. Here our aduersaries will crie, that it is rightly called a Sacrament, wherein the holy Ghost is giuen. But Leo himselfe doth in another place ex∣pounde what he meaneth by those wordes: He that is baptised (sayth he) of heretikes, let him not be rebaptised, but let him be cōfirmed, with the inuocation of the holy Ghost, by the im∣position of handes: bicause he receyued only the forme of baptisme without sanctification. Hierome also maketh mention hereof, contra Luciferianos. Although I doe not denie, that Herome is somwhat herein deceyued, that he sayth that it is an Apostolicall obseruation: yet is he most farre from these mens follies. And he mittigateth it when he sayth that this bles∣sing was graunted only to the Bishop, rather for the honour of priesthood, than by the ne∣cessitie of the law. VVherefore such an imposition of handes which is simply in stead of a blessing, I commend, and would wish it were at these dayes restored to the pure vse.

These words be euident, & declare a maner of confirmation correspondent to ours.

In the fifth Section he wryteth thus. But the latter age haue brought in a counter∣fey〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e* 1.130 confirmation in stead of a Sacrament of God, the thing it selfe beeing almost quite blotted out. They feyne this to be the vertue of confirmation, to giue the holy Ghost vnto the encrease of grace, whiche was giuen in baptisme to innocencie of lyfe, to con∣firme them vnto battail, which in baptisme were regenerated vnto life. This confirmation is wrought with annointing, and this forme of wordes: I signe the with the signe of the holy Ghost, and I confirme thee with the oyntment of saluation, in the name of the father, and of the sonne, and of the holy ghost. &c. And in confuting this maner of confirmation, and imposition of handes, he procéedeth on in this fifth Section, & in the sixth Section. Wherefore Master Caluine is not contrarie to himselfe, neyther disalloweth that kinde of confirmation and imposition of handes in the sixth Section, which he allow∣eth in the fourth. But in the one he approueth the maner of the auncient and purer Church touching confirmation: in the other he disproueth the vse & doctrine of the pa∣pistical church, cōcerning the same. This might you haue sene, if you had bin disposed: but you care not whom you discredit so that you may winne credit to your selfe.

The confession of the Churches of Heluetia, Berne, &c. speake only of the Popishe* 1.131 confirmation, which the Papists make one of their seuen Sacraments, as it is mani∣fest by the wordes of the confession which be these. Confirmation and extreame vnction or anealing, are the inuentiōs of man, which the church may wante without any dammage: Neither vse we them in our churches, for they haue some things which we can not allowe. Nowe to vse that against Confirmation, reformed & purged from these things which they mislike, which is spoken of the Popishe confirmation with all the abuses, can it be (thinke you) the parte of an honest, and playne dealing man?

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c. Fol. 6.

In the ende of that fiftenth article or reason, this is added: And whiche of them haue not preached against the Popes twoo swordes: now whether they vse thē not them selues? Touching the Popes twoo swordes, we are of the same minde still, for the Pope contrary to the word of God taketh from Princes vnto him selfe, that authoritie which is due vnto them by the worde of God, and would haue them to receiue that authoritie from him, whiche he hath no power to giue: the Pope also requireth the full authoritie of a ciuill magistrate, and exempteth him self from all subiection, which is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lat cōtrary to the word of God: our Bishops* 1.132 in this church do not chalenge (as of their owne right) any such ciuil authoritie, but only according to their dutie execute that, that by the Prince, and lawes of this realme, for iust considerations is laide vpō them. Neither do they meddle in all ciuill causes, or exercise all ciuill iurisdiction, but suche only as helpeth to discipline, and to the good gouernment of this church and state: wherfore we may safely preach against the Popes twoo swordes, and yet lawefully defend that iu∣risdictiō and authoritie, that any Bishop hath in this church for any thing that I knowe.

T. C. Page. 174. Sect. 3.

Upon the sixt leafe M. Doctor saith that the Pope taketh the sworde from Princes, but our Bishops take it at their handes, and giuen of them: as though challenge were not made against the Pope for vsing the materiall sworde, and not only for vsing it against the wil of the Princes. For by that reason if Princes would put their swordes in his hande, as sometimes they haue done; he might lawefully vse them. And wheras he saieth that our churchmen meddle not with all ciuill causes, or exercise all ciuill iurisdiction, but such as helpeth to discipline, and the good gouernment of the church, & the estate. What sayth he, that is not truly sayd of any ciuill magistrate in the realme. For no one doth meddle in all causes. And further I would gladly knowe what ciuil iurisdiction is in this realme, which helpeth not vnto the good gouernment of this church and estate. For if they medle with al that, there is none which they haue not to do with.

Io. Whitgifte.

The thing it selfe declareth and the practise of this church is euident, in what sorte* 1.133 and condition such ciuill offices are cōmitted to ecclesiasticall persons: and that they do not rule as kinges, but as subiectes to kinges, nor that they challe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ge not this of any other authoritie, but from the Prince, and that they vse it to no other end than the good and godly gouernment of the churche: whereas the Pope ruleth as Emperoure and kyng, not as subiecte: challengeth his authoritie of dutie, and by the word of God, not by the graunte of Princes, and vseth it moste Tyrannically, euen to the placing and displacing of kinges and Empereurs at his pleasure. And this is that vsurped iu∣risdiction which all good men crye out of, and mislike, and not the other which is ordi∣nary, vsuall and lawefull. When I saye that Bishoppes haue that ciuill iurisdiction which helpeth to discipline, and the good gouernment of the churche and state: all men may vnderstande that I meane suche ciuill iurisdiction, as is

méete for them to execute, and agreable to their vocation and calling.

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c. Fol. 7.

Whereas before it was thus in the margent, and. 19. reason: To proue that the regiment of the Churche should bee spirituall, reade Ephes. 1. 23. 1. Thes. 5. 13. 1. Tim. 5. 2. Heb. 10. 30. nowe it is thus altered: to proue that the regiment of the churche should be spirituall, reade Caluine in his Commentaries vpon these places Ephe. 1. 23. 1. Thes. 5. 13. 1. Ti. 5. 2. Heb. 10. 30. Belike bicause the scriptures them selues doe not sufficiently proue your assertion, therfore you would haue vs to leaue them, and to rest vpon Caluines interpretation, which is nothing else but to preferre mans iudgemēt before the word of God, or to giue M. Caluine authoritie to conclude that whiche is not determined by the scripture. If this be not your meaning why flie you frō those places them selues to M. Caluines interpretation vpon them? But what if you now abuse M. Caluines Commentaries vpon these places, as you did before the places them selues? In his commentaries vpon Ephe. 1. vers. 23. This is al that he sayth touching this matter. Nam vtcun{que} Christus omnia perficiat, nutu virture{que} sua: tamen specialiter loquitur hic Paulus de spirituali ecclesiae gubernatione. Quanquā nihil intereà impedit quominùs de vniuersali mundi gubernatione accipias. For hovvesoeuer Christe maketh perfecte all things vvith his beck and by his povver, yet Paule spea∣keth here especially of the spirituall gouernment of the church. Although that in the meane time it is no hinderance, vvhy thou maist not also vnder∣stande it of the vniuersall gouernment of the vvorld. These wordes serue little for your purpose. There is no man that doubteth, but that Christe doth spiritually gouerne his church, and reigne in the hearts of the faithfull by his spirit: But your meaning is that the gouern∣ment of the churche is only spirituall, which you can no more gather of these words of Caluine, than you may that of the gouernment the whole worlde ought only to be spirituall.

The same Caluine writing vpon. 1. Thes. 5. vers. 12. for the which you haue noted the. 13. sayth on this sorte: Hoc additum videtur, ad notandum spirituale regimen, tameesi enim reges quo{que} & magistratus Dei ordinatione praesunt, quia tamen ec∣clesiae gubernationem dominus peculiariter vult suam agnosci, ideò nominatim praeesse in Domino di∣cuntur, qui Christi nomine & mandato ecclesiā gubernant. This seemes to be added to note the spirituall regiment, For although kings also and magistrates do gouerne by the ordinance of God, yet bicause the Lorde vvould haue the gouernment of the churche knovven peculiarly to be his, therefore namely they are sayde to rule in the Lorde, vvhich gouernethe the church in the name of Christe and by his commaundement. Hetherto Caluine also affirmeth that whiche no man denieth, that God doth by the ministerie of his worde, spiri∣tually gouerne his churche. But this taketh not awaye the eiuill ma∣gistrate, neither yet ciuill lawes made by the Magistrate externally also to gouerne the churche. In his Commentaries. 1 .Ti. 5 vers. 2. he speaketh not one worde of this matter for any thing that I can per∣ceiue. Upon the place to the Hebrewes, he onely sheweth that God doth gouerne his church, the which I thinke no man is so wicked as

to denye. You must more plainly set it downe what your meaning in this matter is, before you can be fully answered. For to proue that God doth spiritually gouerne his churche is nedelesse, being denied* 1.134 of none, either Papiste or Protestante: but therevpon to cōclude that the ciuill Magistrate is secluded from the gouernment of the church, or that there nedeth no externall regiment, is daungerous and sa∣uoreth Anabaptisme.

T. C. Page. 174. Sect. vlt.

Upon the seuenth leafe he sayth that he knoweth not the meaning of the Admonition, when it proueth that the gouernment of the church is spirituall, their meaning is playne enough and I haue declared it more at large to be, not only that our sauiour Christe ruleth by his spirite in the hearts of his elect, (besides which gouernment M. Doctor seemeth to knowe none) but that there is also spi∣rituall gouernment, which is in the whole church visible and to be seene, exercised by those whome God hath appointed in his steade, called spirituall, bicause wheras the ciuill gouernment vseth the sworde, this vseth the worde. and where the ciuil gouernour addresseth him selfe vnto the body, and hath that for speciall matter to worke on: the spirituall gouernours be occupied in reforming the mynde, and subduing that with those punishementes & corrections which God hath appointed for that purpose. Which signification of spirituall gouernment, M. Caluine doth speake of in both the places alleadged by M. Doctor. and especially in the latter, vnto whome the Admonition sent the Reader, not thereby to giue more weighte vnto the truthe, but that he might haue there a playner, and fuller vnderstanding of that which is ment, and could not for that breuitie and shortnesse which it followeth throughout, vtter at large. Whereby it is manifest, that the Admonition is so farre frō shutting out either ciuill gouernment or externall gouernment in the churche, that it teacheth of an externall gouernment which M. doctor seemeth not to haue heard of, albert there be nothing either more common in the scriptures, or ecclesiasticall writers.

Io. Whitgifte.

You replye not to my answere, neither doe you tell vs why you haue lefte out the places of Scripture before quoted, and in place thereof put M Caluine: Neither haue you salued their vnapt and vnfitte alleadging of M. Caluine, who is farre from prouing their purpose in those places which they haue noted. In deede the true spiri∣tuall gouernment of the church is the ruling of Christ by his spirite in the heartes of the elect: neither do I denie but that admonition, exhortation, and excommunication* 1.135 perteine also to the spirituall gouernment of the church, bicause they perteyne to the inward man, and vse no corporall force or punishment: but I d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nye the whole go∣uernment of the church to consiste herein, for I haue proued before, and it cannot bee denied, but that God hath chiefly and principally committed the gouernmente of his churche to the Christian magistrate, by the sworde also, and by conuenient lawes and orders to gouerne the same with an externall kinde of gouernment: and therfore that which I denye, neither you nor they haue as yet proued, or can proue: that is, that the gouernment of the church is only spiritual. But styll the Reader may note howe you labour cleane to shut out the ciuill magistrate from the gouernment of the church.* 1.136 For if the gouernment of it be only spirituall (which you laboure to pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e) then what hath the ciuill magistrate to do therewith? Admonishe and exhort he may not: excō∣municate he cannot: and therefore hath he by your doctrine no more to doe in the go∣uernment of the church, which consisteth in these and such like spirituall actions, than the poorest subiecte in this lande. For when you saye that the Admonition is farre from shutting out either ciuill gouernment or externall gouernment in the churche, you speake* 1.137 subtilly in saying in the church, not, of the church, for you confesse that the ciuil magistrate is a gouernour in the church, but not of the church, that is, he gouerneth the common wealth which is conteyned in the church, but he doth not gouerne the church. O howe simply and playnely you deale.

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c.

Fol. 8.

In the margent ouer against the. 21. reason, there is this note: It con∣teyneth

manifest blasphemie as may appeare. Ephes. 1. 17. meanyng this saying of the Bishop to those that are admitted mynisters: Receyue the holy Ghost. The place in that chapter of the Epistle to the Ephesians proueth no such thing, these be the wordes: I cease not to giue thankes for you making mention of you in my prayers, that the God of our Lorde Iesus Christe the father of glory, might giue vnto you the spirite of vvise∣dome, and reuelation thorough the knovvledge of him. What sequele is there in this argument? S. Paule prayed that God would giue to the Ephesians the spirite of wisedome and reuelation through the knowledge of him: Ergo, this saying of the Bishop (Receyue the holy Ghost) to those that are admitted into the mynisterie, conteyneth manifest blasphemie. Such is your vsuall manner of reasoning.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 1.

Upon the. 8. leafe, M. Doctor sayth he seeth nothing how the place of the Ephes. maketh a∣ny thing agaynst this manner of speach of the Bishop; (Receyue the holy Ghost) and yet it maketh thus much, that for as much as the Apostles did vse to pray that the grace of God might be giuen vnto men, the Bishops should not vse this manner of speache, whiche conteyneth the forme of a commaundement.

Io. Whitgifte,

This is farre from prouing the woordes to conteyne a manifest blasphemie. Of* 1.138 the manner of speaking these wordes, vpon what consideration the Bishops vse the same forme, and that they may do it, I haue shewed before.

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c.

Fol. 9.

All this is added: Neyther is the cōtrouersie betwixt them and vs as they would beare the world in hand: as for a cap, a tippet, or a surplesse, but for greater matters concer∣ning a true ministerie and regiment of the Church according to the worde. VVhich things once established, the other melt away of themselues: and yet consider I pray you, whether their owne argument doth not choake themselues, for euen the very name of trifles doth playnly declare that they ought not to be maynteyned in Christes churche: and what shall our Bishops winne by it? forsoth that they be maynteyners of trifles, and trifling Bishops, consuming the greatest part of their time in those trifles, whereas they should be better oc∣cupied. VVe striue for true religiō and gouernment of the Church, and shew you the right way to throw out Antichrist both head and tayle, and that we will not so much as commu∣nicate with the tayle of the beast: But they after they haue thrust out Antichriste by the head, go aboute to pull him in agayne by the tayle, cunningly colouring it, least any man should espie his foote steps, as Cacus did when he stole the oxen.

What other men haue done, I know not, but for my parte, I al∣wayes suspected & partly knewe, that some of you had greater mat∣ters* 1.139 in hand, and of more importance than cap, tippet, and surplisse, which surely was one of the firste causes that moued me to be more earnest against you, than I was accustomed: for I did vnderstād that you were hatching opinions tending not only to Anabaptisme, but to the ouerthrow of the Gospell, & disturbing the quiet state of this

church: and yet who knoweth not that you haue made the cappe, and surplisse your pretence hetherto, vntill nowe of late when you see al∣most all men condemne your folly.

You say, we choake our selues with our owne argumēt, for euen the very name of trifles doth playnely declare, that they ought not to be maynteyned in Christes churche. Surely of themselues they be but trifles, as all other externall Ce∣remonies and indifferent thinges be: it is the circumstances that maketh them no tryfles, but matters of weight: For thinges indif∣ferent beyng commaunded thus or so to be vsed by the Magistrate (not as necessarie to saluation and iussification, but as conuenient and necessarie for order̄ and decencie) be not now trifles. And who∣soeuer without a lawfull vrgent cause, or in a case of necessitie dothe breake the lawe made of them, sheweth himself a disordered person, disobedient, a contemner of lawfull authoritie, and a wounder of his weake brothers conscience. And if any man shall say, that this is to bring vs agayne in bondage of the lawe, and to depriue vs of our li∣bertie: I answere, no: for it is not a matter of iustification but of or∣der: and to be vnder a lawe, is no taking away of Christian libertie.* 1.140 For the Christian libertie is not a licence to do what thou list, but to serue God in newnesse of minde, & that for loue, not for seruile feare. Of themselues therefore they be but trifles, but beyng commaunded by the Magistrate to be vsed, or not to be vsed, they are no trifles, no more than it was for women to come into the Church bareheaded, or a man to pray hauing his cappe on his head, after that S. Paule had made an order to the contrarie. And therefore these scoffes and floutes (And what shall our Bishops winne by it? forsoth that they be maynteyners of tryfles, and tryfling Bishops, consuming the greatest parte of their time in these tryfles, whereas they should be better occupied) might with more commendation of your modestie haue bene well forborne. They see your doinges tende not onely to contention but to confusion: not onely to disobe∣dience towardes the lawes of the Prince, but also to dangerous er∣rours, yea to the ouerthrow of Religion: & therefore they are neither maynteyners of tryfles, nor tryfling Bishops, but wyse, discrete, vigilant, and learned Fathers, whiche seeke to maynteyne peace, preserue good order, defende the authoritie of lawfull lawes, and in time suppresse erroneous doctrine.

You rather spende the time in trifles, when you might be better oc∣cupied, for you (omitting all other necessary pointes of doctrine, and* 1.141 profitable exhortations to good life) stuffe your sermons, and furnish your table talke with nothing else, but with bitter inuectiues against those rytes, as though they were matters of damnation, and against those learned and discrete ministers of the woorde, who (according to their dutie vsing of them) seeke in deede to beate downe Antichrist to plante necessary pointes of Religion in mens heartes, and to teach* 1.142 repentance with newnesse of life: which your vnfruitfull, frowarde, and contentious dealyng, reioyseth the Papiste, discrediteth the sounde and learned preacher, offendeth the godlye, woundeth the weake, worketh contempte of Magistrates and superiours in the

heartes of the hearers, destroyeth that which other men buylde, and finally doth good to none. For what fruite can there come to the hea∣rers, by inueighing continually against Cappe, Tippet, Surplesse, Ring in mariage, womens whyte kerchers, baggepipes, funerall sermons, mourning aparel. &c. Bishoppes, Preachers, Magistrates, Prince? These and suche lyke be onely the common places, you en∣treate of.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 2.

Upon the ninth leafe he hath sundry greeuous accusations and charges of disorder, disobediēce, and contempte, against those which refuse the aparel, and laboureth to perswade that they are great and weighty matters. But his proofes were spent before.

Io. Whitgifte.

The proofes that I haue here vsed gawles you shrewdely, & will not be answered with such disdaine: let the learned Reader consider of them, and marke howe well you haue spoken for your selfe.

Ansvvere to the Additions. &c.

Fol. 1.

There is added Portuis, for where before they sayde that our booke of Common prayers was culled and picked out of that Popyshe dunghill the Massebooke, nowe vppon better aduisement, they saye that it was culled out of the portuis and Masse booke. It derogateth nothing from the booke of Common prayers, bicause something therein is in the portuis and massebooke, no more than it derogateth from the scrip∣tures, that some portion of them, as the whole Psalmes, and certain other portions of the Epistles, Gospels, and other Scripture, bee in the same: neyther are they allowed bicause they be in the portuis and massebooke, but bicause they be either Scripture, or moste agreeable therevnto.

They also adde in the firste reason, that the comming of women in vayles to be Churched, is not commaunded by lawe, but yet the abuse to bee great, by reason that superstition is growen thereby in the heartes of many, and other are iudged that vse it not. This is an argument of their former rashnesse, but not worthy any answere, especially being confessed to be without the booke.

For the. 120. Psalme. is now quoted the. 121. Psalme, which I haue also corrected before.

Fol. 2.

For the. 26. of Math. is noted the. 28. And this also I corrected in answering that place.

Where it was before, and minister a Sacrament, nowe is added, according to their appointmente, to what purpose I knowe not.

There is also added in the same leafe these wordes: are not the people well nodified thinke you, when the homely of sweeping the churche is read vnto them:

Surely such flouting termes are vsed of none but of nodies in deede, and suche as are more meete to be fooles in playes, where they maye iest, thā to be platformers of churches, in whom wisdome, learning,

grauitie & godlinesse is to be requyred: I know no Homelie entituled of sweeping the Churche, one there is of repayring and keeping cleane of churches: whether it edifie or no, I referre to the wise and discrete Reader to iudge, when he hath perused it.

Before it was in y^t secōd reason, for the very name Apocrypha testifieth that they* 1.143 ought rather to be kept close than to be vttered: Now it is, for the very name Apocrypha testifieth that they were read in secrete, & not opēly: This is some correction of their former rashnesse. But of this matter, that is, of reading Homelies in the Church, I haue spoken before. I omit. 2. Tim. 3. vers. 6. which is now vers. 19. & 2. Pet. 1. vers. 20. which is now vers. 19. 20. 21. For these be not matters of any great importance, & they be quoted to proue a matter not doubted of among vs. In the former edition & fourth reason, it is thus written: In this booke we are enioyned to receyue the Cōmunion kneeling, which beside that it hath in it a shewe of papistrie, doth not so well expresse the mysterie of this holy Supper. For as in the old Testament eating the Paschall Lamb stāding, signified a readinesse to passe: euen so in receiuing it now sitting, according to the exāple of Christe, we signifie a rest, that is, a full finishing thorough Christ, of all the ceremoniall lawe, and a perfect worke of re∣demption wrought that giueth reste for euer, and so we auoyde also the daunger of Idolatrie. In the second Edition these wordes be thus altered: In this booke we are enioyned to receyue the Cōmuniō kneeling, which beside that it hath in it a shew of popish I∣dolatrie, doth not so well expresse a Supper, neither agreeth it so well with the institution of Christ, as sitting doth: not that we make sitting a thing of necessitie belonging vnto the Sacra∣mēt, neyther al firme we that it may not be receyued otherwise, but that it is more neare the in∣stitution, and also a meane to auoyde the daunger of Idolatrie. Here is the signification* 1.144 of sitting (which they before made) cleane dashed out, as a thing vnad∣uisedly before put in. It is also here graūted that the Cōmunion may be receyued otherwise than sitting, with other circūstances, wherof they haue now better cōsidered. Surely this is a great alteration vpon such a sodaine: & I would hardly haue bene persuaded that these men would so sone haue discredited thēselues by theyr inconstancie. But peraduen∣ture the selfe same had not the correction of the booke which were the first penners of it, and therefore how they will like of this correction, it may be doubted. But although the wordes in the texte be altered, yet the quotations in the margent remayne still: Belike they are to be ap∣plied as it pleaseth the platformers.

All this is added in the seuenth reason: But some will say that the baptisme of* 1.145 women is not cōmaunded by law, if it be not, why do you suffer it, & wherfore are the childrē so baptized accordingly? cōmon experience teacheth that it is vsed almost in all places, & fewe speake against it: & this I am sure of, that when it was put in the booke, that was the meaning of the most part, that were thē present, and so it was to be vnderstāded, as cōmon practise with∣out cōtrolement doth plainely declare. All these be but cōiectures. Diuers things be suffered & in many places vsed without cōtrolment, which notwith∣standing by no lawe be cōmaunded. What the meaning was of those that penned the booke, I know not, neither as I thinke do you. And surely for cōmon practise I can say litle, but for mine own experiēce this I dare affirme, that I haue not knowne one childe so baptised in places where I haue had to do, no not since the beginning of the Q. Maiesties reigne. I speake not of the thing it self, but only of your coniectures: I* 1.146 thinke if the circūstances of the booke be well considered, it will appeare that the meaning is, that priuate baptisme is rather to be ministred by

some minister (which in y^e time of necessity may soonest be come by) thā by any womā. But in this poynt I submit my iudgemēt to such as bet∣ter know the meaning of y^e bok? (being pēners therof) thā I do. In the same leafe & ninth reason speaking of certeyne things vsed about mari∣age, they adde these words: VVith diuers other heathenishe toyes, in sundry coūtries,* 1.147 as carying of wheat sheafs on their heads, & casting of corne, with a nūber of such like, wherby they make rather a maygame of mariage, thā a holy institutiō of God. These be but toyes in deede, vsed I know not where, not conteyned in any part of the boke of cōmon prayers, & therfore without my cōpasse of defense. They lacke matter whē they stuffe theyr booke with such vaine & friuolous trifles.

In the. 10. reason to these wordes, (as for confirmation) is added, which the* 1.148 Papists and our men say was in times past Apostolicall, grounding their opinion perhaps vpon some dreame of Hierome: And in the same place these wordes be left out: VVe speake not of other toyes vsed in it, & how far it differeth, & is degenerated from the first in∣stitution, they thēselues that are learned can witnesse: And in the place hereof this is inserted, as though baptisme were not already perfect, but needed cōfirmation, or as though the Bishop could giue the holy Ghost. You your selfe in effect haue confessed in your first edition, that confirmation of children is very auncient, & that it hath bene wel instituted, for there you say that now it differeth & is degene∣rate* 1.149 frō the first institution: But vpon better aduisemēt you haue left out these wordes in your second Edition: as you haue also left out these, with other toyes vsed in it, wherby you confesse (contrary to your former sentence) that the confirmation of Children now vsed is without any toyes. Howso∣soeuer it pleaseth you to accompt Hieromes iudgemēt (touching the an∣tiquitie of confirmation) a dreame: yet his dreame may be of as much credite with wise men, as your bare deniall of the same. The wordes* 1.150 that you haue added in the second place might wel haue bene spared: for you know that confirmation now vsed in this Churche is not to make baptisme perfect, but partly to trie how the godfathers & Godmothers haue performed y^t which was enioyned thē whē the children were bap∣tised: partly that the childrē thēselues (now being at the yeares of dis∣cretiō, & hauing learned what their Godfathers & Godmothers promi∣sed for thē in baptisme) may with their owne mouth & with their owne consent openly before the church ratifie & confirme the same, & also pro∣mise that by the grace of God they will euermore endeuour themselues faithfully to obserue 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 keepe such things as they by their own mouth & confessiō haue assented vnto. And this reason is alledged among other euē in the booke of cōmon prayers. And that it is not to make baptisme perfect, y^e boke of cōmon prayers it self declareth in these words: And that no mā shal think any detrimēt shal come to Childrē by deferring of their cōfir∣matiō, he shal know for truth that it is certaine by Gods word that childrē being baptised, haue all things necessary for their saluatiō, & be vndoubtedly saued.

You adde, as though the Bishop could giue the holy Ghost: the Bishop may vse the ceremonie vsed by the Apostles, that is, imposition of handes, & may safely say this godly prayer conteyned in the booke: Defend O Lorde this childe with the heauenly grace, that he may continue thine for euer, and dayly encrease in thy holy spirit, more and more, vntill he come vnto thy euerlasting kingdome. Amē. And other such godly prayers there cōteiued. Of any o∣ther kind of giuing y^e holy ghost, there is no mētion in that boke, & ther∣fore

these additions might very well haue bene leftout of your libel. To the end of the eleuenth reason, these wordes be added, and open our eyes that we may see what that good and acceptable will of God is, and be more earnest to prouoke his glory: to the which I onely answere, Amen.

In the ende of the. 12. there is something left out which they haue placed in the. 13. reason: but it is answered before.

There is nothing added or altered worth the noting: onely in the* 1.151 fiftenth reason, where they sayd before that we honored Bishops by the titles of kings: nowe they haue recanted that, and condemned them∣selues of an vntruth, for they haue left out that title.* 1.152

In the seuenth leaf and 19. reason these words be left out, banners and belles: which argueth that they were before vntruly sayd to be vsed in gang weeke: But to lye, is a small matter with these men.

For Lordes grace of Yorke, there is the Archbishop of Yorke. The cause of* 1.153 this alteration I know not.

When you say that you striue for true Religiō & gouernment of the Church, &c.* 1.154 You say, that you do that, which is to be wished you should do. But your doings tēde to y^e defacing of true Religion, & ouerthrow of the right gouernment of the Church, & although you be not the head of Antichrist, yet are you his tayle: for the tayle of the beast, (as learned* 1.155 mē say) be false Prophets, Hypocrites, such as stirre vp Schismes & factions among true Christians, and by pretence of zeale, by cloaked and coloured meanes, seeke to draw into the church Antichrist back∣ward, as Cacus did the oxen into his denne.

Io. Whitgifte.

To these things y^e Replier hath giuen his consent as it should séeme by his silence.

¶ Articles collected out of the former Admonition, and vntruly sayd (of the fautors of that Admonition) to be falsified.

To the end of the second Admonition there is ioyned A reprofe of cer∣taine Articles, collected (as it is thought) by the Bishops, (for so they say) out of a litle booke entituled, An Admonition to the Parliament. &c. But as I thinke, it may rather be termed, a recantation, or (if you will) a reformatiō or mitigatiō of certen articles in that first admonition rashly setdowne, & without learning or discretion printed.

1. Fol. 3. lib. 1. pag. 2. First they hold & affirme that we in England are not yet* 1.156 come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde. Here you finde fault that this worde scarce is left out. Indeede this word scarce was writ∣ten in the margent of diuers copies of the first Admonition: whether it were so in all, or no, I know not: no more do I whether any such collectiō (as you pretend) was made. But what neede you so muche sticke in wordes, when the thing is manifest? for in effect they denie as much as that proposition importeth: they wholy condēne the my∣nisterie, the ceremonies, & the gouernment of this church. They say the sacraments be full of corruptions: & in theyr second Admonition Fol 42. they say that the sacraments are wickedly māgled & prophaned: they vt∣terly condēne our order & māner of common prayer: yea in effect our doctrine also, for in their secōd Admonitiō, Fol. 7 they say, that although some truth be taught by some preachers, yet no preacher may without daūger of the lawes,

vtter all truth comprised in the booke of God. What can be spoken more slen∣derly of the doctrine preached in this church? A mā may truly speake as much of the Romishe churche: for some truthe is taught by some Papists: yea some truth is taught by some Iewe & Turke. When therfore you say, that in this church neither the worde is truly prea∣ched, nor the sacramēts sincerely ministred, nor yet Ecclesiasticall dis∣cipline (which thre in the first Admonition Fol. 3. is sayde to be the out∣warde markes, whereby a true Christian church is knowne) and also condemne our mynisterie as Popish and vnlawfull, with the whole gouernment of* 1.157 our Church (as you do in playne termes) may it not be truely sayde, that you affirme vs in England as yet not to be come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde? Furthermore what doth this word scarce helpe the matter, doth it not importe as much? it is a rule in Philo∣sophie, Quod vix fit non fit, that vvhich is scarce done is not done.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 3. 4. 5.

As for Answere to the Articles collected out of the Admonition, it is made in the Replie vnto M. Doctors booke, where I haue shewed how the Admonition is misconstrued and taken other∣wise, than eytherit meameth or speaketh, wherevnto I will referre the Reader.

And albeit I haue shewed how vntrue it is, that the Admonition, affirmeth that there is no church in England, yet I can not passe by the secrete Philosophie, whereby M. Doctor woulde proue, that the Authors of the Admonition affirme it. For sayth he by y^e rule of Philosophie. Quod vix fit, non fit, that which is scarse done is not done. I say this is secrete, for it was neuer taught, neyther in Academia, nor in stoa, nor Lyceo, I haue redde Quod fere fit, non fit, that which is al∣most done is not done. But I neuer remember any such rule as M. Doctor speaketh of.

And besides that in our tongue, those things which are sayd to be scarce, are notwithstanding oftentimes supposed to be. As when a man sayth that there is scarce a man aliue, &c. the scripture also vseth that phrase of speach, of things which are, as when it sayth, the iust man shall scarce be saued, it doth not meane, that iust men shall not be saued. The rest of that I haue answered.

Io. Whitgifte.

I proue by their owne manifest woordes, that they in déede affirme that we in England are not yet come to the outwarde face of a Church agreable to Gods worde, all whiche proofes you omit and let passe cauilling onely at this woorde (scarce,) which is a ma∣nifest* 1.158 argument of a wrangler. And yet is not this manner of speaking. Quod vix sit, non sit, so straunge Philosophie, as you would gladly haue it, for this woorde (vix) ey∣ther signifieth with violence, & great difficultie to do a thing: or else it is referred to the time: or else it signifieth (non) as in Ouide vix Priamus tanti, that is, non tanti Pria∣mus, as Donatus doth expoūd it. I thinke you will not haue it to be taken in the first significatiō, by the Authors of y^e Admonitiō, for then there is no sense in their wordes: if it be taken in either of the latter significations (as it must of necessitie be) then the Philosophie is not secrete▪ but open and knowne to euery yong Grammarian.

In our English phrase, it is commonly taken for non, as when we say a thing is* 1.159 scarce done, we signifie that is not yet done. Likewise when a man sayth that he is scarce well, he meaneth that he is not well. He hath scarce made an end of his sermon▪ y^t is, he hath not made an end of his sermon. It is scarce. ix. of y^e clocke, that is, it is not yet ix. of the clocke. Euen so we are scarce come to the outward forme of a church rightly refor∣med. &c. that is, we are not yet come. &c. Euery child y^t cā speake knoweth this to be so.

When the scripture saith, that a iust man shall scarce be saued: this woorde (vix) is taken in y^e first significatiō, that is, with great difficultie, & in this signification it is oftētimes taken in the scripture: but so can it not be in their manner of speach.

Ansvvere to certayne Articles. &c.

2. They will haue the mynisters to be called, allowed, and placed by the people. You say, that this Article is falsified: & yet their wordes in that place of their Admonition be these: Then election was made by the cōmon consent of the whole Churche. And a litle after: Then no mynister was placed in any congregation

without the consent of the people. Wherfore the collection is very true, and they belike ashamed of their doings: and therfore they haue corrected these assertiōs in their second edition of the first Admonition on this sorte: Then election was made by the elders, with the cōmon cōsent of the whole church. Surely these men be past shame, else woulde they not denie their owne written assertions.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6.

And whereas he sayth that it is al one, to say that the election of the mynister must be made by (*) 1.160 the church, & to say, It must be made by the people: it is a great ouersight to make the parte & whole all one, seing y^e people be but one part of the church, & the mynister and the other gouernours are, albeit not the greatest, yet the principallest part. I graunt that sometimes a parte is taken for the whole, and so we do call sometimes the gouernours of the churche, the churche, and sometimes the people: But where the question is of the proprietie of these speaches (the Church and the peo∣ple) there all men that haue any iudgement, can easily put a difference.

Io. Whitgifte.

What I haue sayde, how truly you haue reported my wordes, & how aptly you haue replied to my Answere, euen the very simple Reader may easily vnderstand: & therfore for answers to this, I shall only desire him to compare our wordes togither: and then it shall easily appeare how you haue falsified my wordes: for wheras I ga∣ther out of these wordes of y^e Admonition, Election was made by the common cōsent of the whole Church, therfore their collection is true which say, that they would haue the my∣nisters to be called, allowed, & placed by the people, you either of purpose, or by ouer∣sight (which is very vsuall with you) haue left out y^e worde (whole) & make as though I should say, that it is all one to say that the election must be made by the church, & to say, it must be made by the people: & should confound the people & the church, the part with the whole: which is a manifest vntruth. But by y^e way it is to be noted, y^t you séeme to separate the people frō the election of mynisters, for you will not haue the worde (Church) in the Admonition to cōprehend the people, else why haue you these words, when the question is of the proprietie of these speaches, (the church and the people)? and surely it may séeme that this is their meaning, bicause in their second edition they say the elec∣tion was made by the Elders, with the common consent of the people, so that, the election should be made by the Elders, and the people only should cōsent to the election: which is contrary to the rest of your assertion.

Ansvvere to certayne Articles. &c.

4. Lin. 9. They hold that a Bishop at no hande hath authoritie to ordeyne ministers. This Article you confesse to be truely gathered: but now you make this glosse (not alone) and yet in their Admonition it is in flat termes, that the ordering of mynisters doth at no hand apperteyne to Bishops.

6. Lin. 28. They will haue the mynisters at theyr owne pleasure to preach without lycence. This is true by your owne cōfessiō, for you will haue no other licēce, but your calling to the ministerie, which must be (as you say) by the congregation. Here you shut out both the Princes licence, and the Bishops.

7. Lin. 13. fol. 17. Lin. 6. pag. 1. Whatsoeuer is set down in this Article is manifestly affirmed in the Admonitiō, & your answere to it is fri∣uolous, and nothing to the purpose. For in the firste parte of the Ad∣monition▪ Fol. 2. pag. 1. These be the wordes: In those dayes knowne by voice, learning & doctrine: now they must be discerned frō other, by Popish & Antichristian ap∣parell, as cap, gowne, tippet, &c. And in the second part speaking of the appa∣rell prescribed to ministers, they say on this sort: There is no order in it but confusion: no comelinesse, but deformitie: no obediēce, but disobediēce both against God and the Prince. Are you not then ashamed to say, that this Article (They

will haue the mynister discerned from others by no kinde of apparell, and the apparell ap∣poynted they terme Antichristian, and the apparell appoynted by the Prince, disobedience agaynst the Prince) is falsified?

Fol. 4. Lin. 1. Pag. 2. They will haue all Archbishops, Bishops, Archdeacons, &c. together with their offices, iurisdictions, courtes, and liuings cleane taken away, and with speede remoued. You say that this is falsified in parte, bicause there is left out Lords grace, Iustice of peace, and Quorum, &c. Surely the Article is truly collected in euery poynt, and playnely affirmed in the. 2. leafe of the first parte of that Admonition. As for your gibing wordes that follow, they be but winde: I warrāt you the cōfutatiō will abide the light, & the Author will shew his face, which you are ashamed to do.

9. Lin. 9. The Article is truly collected: looke in the first parte of that Admonition, Fol. 2. Pag. 2. & Fol. 3. And in the second part of that Admonition. Fol. 1. pag. 2. Fol. 5. pag. 1.

17. Lin. 12. The collection is true: for their wordes be these: They simply as they receyued it from the Lorde, we sinfuily mixed with mans inuentions and de∣uises. And therfore you vntruly say, that it is falsified.

19. Lin. 16. They will haue no Godfathers nor Godmothers, you say that this Article is also vtterly falsified: what meane you so to forget your sslfe Is it not thus writtē in the first part of y^e first Admonitiō, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o. 3 pa. 2.* 1.161 And as for Baptisme it was enough with them if they had water, and the partie to be bapti∣sed, fayth, and the mynister to preache the worde, and mynister the Sacramentes. Nowe we must haue surplesse deuised by Pope Adrian, Interrogatories mynistred to the infant, Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus, &c? Howe say you? are not Godfathers and Godmothers here disallowed? wherefore be they else in this place recyted? or why are they here ascribed to Pope Hi∣ginus? will you now allow any thing in the Church inuented by the Pope? In deede in the second edition of this firste Admonition, these wordes, Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus, be cleane left out, as I haue before noted. Wherfore eyther you haue not redde the di∣uersitie of their editions, or else you are very impudent.

22. Fol 8. in fine. I maruell why you say, that this collection is fal∣sified? Looke Fol. vlt. pag 2. of the first part of the Admonition.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6.

The rest of those articles are answered in the discourse of the booke. Besides that, the fanlts which are found with the vntrue gathering of them, are not taken away by M. Doctor, but only in confident & bould asseuerations. And if I should say any thing, I should but repeat their wordes.

Io. Whitgifte.

The iudgement hereof must also be referred to the Reader, who may coniecture, that you haue litle to say, against any thing that I haue in this parte affirmed.

Out of the second treatise called A view of Po∣pishe abuses remayning.

Fol. 10. pag. 1 lin. 33. Reading of seruice or Homilies in the church is as euil as play∣ing on a stage, and worse too. You say that this is falsified. Lord God what meane you? In the seconde leafe of that booke these be their di∣rect wordes, Reading is not feeding, but it is as euill as playing vpon a stage, and worse too. To the same effect they speake diuers times, & so do the Authors of the second Admonition. Surely eyther they are ashamed of their doings, or else you haue not with diligence read their bookes.

Thus briefly to haue answered to your vniust accusation of falsly collecting certain articles out of the booke entituled. An Admonition. &c. shall be sufficient. Other articles which you say be gathered out of the same booke, and confesse to be true, I haue omitted, bicause they be sufficiently answered by me in the confutation: and your confir∣mation of them is vsuall and childishe.

I woulde wishe that suche as bee wyse men and in authoritie, would diligently consider that whiche you answere to the Article, Fol 14. (as you quote it) touching the gouernment of the Churche, and the authoritie of Princes and their lawes: and likewyse that whiche is written concerning the same matters in the seconde Ad∣monition: I will make them neyther better nor worse, but wishe the Magistrates, well to marke your iudgements and opinions in these matters, and to foresee the worst. The Lorde blesse this Realme of Englande with the continuance of his Gospell, long life of the Queenes maiestie, and peace bothe foreyne and dome∣sticall. Amen.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing answered.

¶ A viewe of the seconde Admonition.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. vlt.

In the viewe of the second admonition M. Doctor doth as it seemeth of purpose, cul out those things which he hath spoken on before, and in repeating of them, referreth his Reader vnto hys booke. Diuers other matters there are of great weight which he speaketh not of, if he doe approue them. (*) 1.162 it had beene well he had sign fyed his liking: if he doe not, that he had confuted them. And if he trauelled so heauily of bringing foorth of this booke, that it was as heauy a burden vnto hym, as Salomon sayth, a fond worde is vnto an vnwyse man: he might haue taken day to answere it. Now by this slēder answering or rather not answering at al, but only asking how this & that is pro∣ued (wheras beeing proued it is vnreproued of him) he doth his cause more harme than he is aware of. For vnlesse his profes he ioyned with his expulsions, imprisonmēts, & with all that racket which he maketh in Cambridge, to the vtter most of that his authoritie will stretch vnto, he may be well assured, that their driuing out wyll drawe in the truthe, and their imprisonment wyll set the truthe at greater libertie, and thereby proue it self to be neyther Papistrie, nor Anabaptistrie, Donatistrie, Catharisme, nor any other heresie, whych are by due correction repressed. But as for the truthe of God, the more it is laden, the strayghter it standeth, and the more it is kepte vnder, the more it eu∣forceth it selfe to ryse, and wyll vndoubtedly get vp, howe great so euer the stone be whyche is layde vpon it.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue omitted no matter of substance vnanswered in eyther of the Admoniti∣ons. The wordes you héere vtter be contumelious: you onely rayle, you answere not. I neuer expelled any of degrée since my first comming to Trinitie Colledge, but two: the one for pertinacie, the other for periurie. And yet I might haue done lawfully and iustly, and intende to doe if the statutes wherevnto I haue sworne, doe therevnto enforce me. But by your often obiecting this vnto me, men may vnder∣stande what conscience it is that makes you so zealous, and what diuinitie it is that you so carnestly professe: scil. a minde full of reuengment, and a face puffed vp with arrogancie and vayneglory.

A briefe viewe of the seconde Admonition.

I haue also receyued a seconde Admonition to the Parliament,

the author whereof vndertaketh to teache howe to reforme those things whiche the other Admonition founde faulte with. I shall not neede to make any long discourse of it, neyther will I. The answere to the fyrst admonition is an answere to this also. Onely I thought it good to note vnto you, that this booke consisteth of these poynts especially: first it iustifieth the authors of the first Ad∣monition, and seemeth to complayne that they haue not iustice, bi∣cause they appealyng to the highest Court of Parliament, their ap∣peale would not be receyued. And therefore they say the Scripture is playne, that it shall be easier for Sodome and Gomorra in the daye of iudgement▪ than for suche a court, meaning the court of Parliament, and they quote for that purpose in the margent the. 10. of Matth, verse. 14. 15. which is a shamefull prophanation of the Scripture, and an egregious slaunder to that honorable courte. The iustnesse of the appeale I leaue to the Iustices, and skilfull Lawyers to be considered of, for it is not within the compasse of my facultie. Onely I thinke that that scroule can haue no defense of Parliament: first, bicause it is a Libell: secondly, bicause it was published in printe before the Par∣liament was made priuie vnto it.

Io. Whitgifte.

Not one worde sayde agaynst this.

¶ A viewe of the seconde Admonition.

In this parte these wordes of theirs would be well considered,* 1.163 there is no other thing to be looked for, than some speedie vengeance to lighte vpon the whole lande, prouide as well as the politike Macheuils of Englande thinke they can, though God doe his worste: It woulde be knowne whome they meane by these politike Macheuils: for they enuy all men of great authoritie, witte, and pollicie.

T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 1. 2.

And albeit he had no leysure to answere the matters whiche required his answere, yet he car∣peth at by matters, and asketh who are ment by the politike Macheuils.

What if they meane (*) 1.164 M. Doctor, and such other, which vnder the pretence of policie, would ouerthrowe the Churche, and that by those things whych haue scarse a shew of policie, and in deede ouerturne the policie and gouernment of the Lorde. And I pray you tell me M. Doctor, who be those superiours which contemne, hate, discourage, and frumpe those whiche execute the lawes of the Realme, of the whiche you speake in the. 88. page. And where you adde by and by, that they enuye all men of great authoritie, witte, and pollicie, I haue answered this speeche before. And truely I thinke there is not in Mesheke so slaunderous a tongue to be founde, as this is, nor the Iuniper cotesare not comparable with it.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nay they can not meane it of me, nor of suche as I am: for I haue not to doe with the politike affayres of this lande, neyther am I eyther of Court, or Parlia∣ment. But I thinke their words following doe clearely seclude me, and all other of my degrée, for thus they adde immediatly: But shutte God out of your assemblies, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 as hitherto in this last Parliament you haue done nothing therin as you ought, no though 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 beene solicited, but haue suffered them that were your solicitours, to be molested. You shall 〈◊〉〈◊〉 both that you ought to haue sought the kingdome of God first, and also you shall finde, if 〈◊〉〈◊〉 consider not your owne wayes in your hearts, howe you thinke it a tyme to buylde seeled hou∣ses,

to deuise lawes for the preseruation and prosperitie of your common wealth, and neglect Gods Churche, leaue that wast. &c. These wordes of theirs shutteth me out from the number of their Macheuils. Well, it is a poynte that woulde be considered. That whiche I speake in the. 88. page, I am ready to giue accounte of, when I am thervnto by due authoritie called. Neyther am I afrayde in time and place, to speake that whiche I thinke. In the rest of this Replie you doe but vtter your impatiencie, and vntempe∣ratenesse of your spéeche, and therfore I will dismisse you, as Dauid dyd Shemei.

A vievve of the seconde Admonition.

The seconde parte consisteth onely of rayling wordes, and slaun∣derous* 1.165 accusations, first agaynst this whole Churche of Englande, for they say, that we are scarse come to the outwarde face of a Churche rightly refor∣med, and that although some truthe be taught by some preachers, yet no Preacher maye without great daunger of the lawes vtter all truthe comprised in the worde of God. &c. And a little after they adde and saye, that the truthe in a maner doth but peepe out behinde the screene: which speeches as they be very vntrue (for who knoweth not that the Gospell is wholly, publikely, and freely prea∣ched in this Church of Englande) so they be slaunderous, neyther can the Papists speake any worse.

In this parte also, to proue that this is no true saying in matters of policie and gouernment, it is not repugnant to the word of God, and therfore it may be vsed: is alleaged this saying of Christ. Mat. 12. He that is not vvith me, is agaynst me. But they haue forgotten the wordes of Christ, Mat. 9. Qui non est aduersus nos, pro nobis est: He that is not agaynst vs, is vvith vs. Wherevpon we maye muche better conclude, that that which is not repugnant to the Scripture, is consonant to the Scripture, than they can doe the contrarie of the former place. Notwithstanding in both these places (as I think) Christ speaketh rather of men and persons, than of things them selues.

In the same parte their speeche of the Queenes supremacie is ve∣ry* 1.166 suspicious, and it would be demaunded of them what they thinke in deede of hir Maiesties anthoritie in ecclesiasticall matters, for in this poyut they haue hitherto dealt very subtilly and closely: not∣withstanding their meaning may easily be perceyued of suche as di∣ligently consider their bookes.

Likewyse in this parte they note certayne contrarietics in thys Churche, as betwixte the Communion booke and Iniunctions, tou∣ching wafers: the Communion booke and aduertisementes con∣cerning Churche vestures: the Canons and the Pontificall, in not ordering of ministers sine titulo, and suche like matters of no impor∣tance, whiche iustifie rather this Churche, than otherwyse: for surely if they had had weightier matters, they woulde no doubte haue alleaged them. But in these same matters they are muche de∣ceyued, for as I suppose, in matters of ornaments of the Churche, and of the ministers thereof, the Queenes Maiestie, togither with the Archbishop or the Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall, haue authoritie by Acte of Parliament, to alter and appoynt suche rites and ceremonies as shall from tyme to tyme be thoughte to them moste conuenient. To be shorte, in that poynt they saye, that in thinges

of order one Church may many times differ from another without offence, following the generall rules of Scripture for order, as in appoynting time and place for prayers. &c. Which is a very true saying: and flat contrarie to all that is sayde ey∣ther* 1.167 in the first Admonition, or in this seconde: for if suche things may be appoynted in the Churche, not beeing expressed in the word of God, but depending vpon this generall rule, Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Corinth. 14. then surely the Magistrate hathe authoritie in suche matters, to appoynt what shall be thought vnto them most conuenient, so that it be not repugnant to the worde of God: except you will make this the question: whether in such mat∣ters we ought to be directed by the Magistrates, and gouernours of the Church, or by euery priuate Pastor in his seuerall charge.

Io. Whitgifte.

All this is let slippe without answere.

The vievve of the seconde Admonition.

The thirde parte of this booke condemneth the degrees of Doc∣tors,* 1.168 Bachelers of Diuinitie, and Masters of Arte in the Uniuer∣sities, and slaunderously, vntruely, and opprobriously speaketh of the Uniuersities, and suche as be in them: presumptudusty prescri∣bing a maner of reformation for the same, when as I thinke veri∣ly they knowe not what Uniuersities meane. But heere we maye note that they seeke to ouerthrowe all learning and degrees of learning. The same parte also very slaunderonsly and vnchristianly rayleth on some Bishops by name, and the rest of the Cleargie, char∣ging them most vntruely with sundrie things: but bicause it is done by way of Libelling (a Diuelishe kinde of reuenge) therfore I trust godly and wyse men will esteeme of it accordingly. Besides slaun∣derous reportes, and opprobrious words, there is nothing in thys parte worthy the answering.

T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 2.

After he accuseth the Admonition. as if it condemned scholes and Uniuersities, with all ma∣ner degrees, when it dothe but inueigh agaynst degrees giuen of custome rather than of right, ra∣ther by money, than by merite of learning, and when titles of Doctorship be giuen to those which haue not the office of a Doctor, and oftentimes to those which can not doe the office if they had it, and when men doe seeke vayneglory in them and suche lyke.

Io. Whitgifte.

Reade and marke their wordes, page. 16. and. 17. and the conclusion they vse (after they haue in moste bitter maner inueighed agaynst suche degrées) whiche is this: These vayne names become suche vayne men, but the Churche of God they become not, and are forbidden by our Sauiour. &c. Their owne wordes be a sufficient declaration of their meaning, and so is yours vttered before, a playne proofe of your consenting vnto* 1.169 them, and condemning of all degrées of Schole, properly perteyning to Diuinitie.

A vievve of the seconde Admonition.

In the fourth parte the Author taketh vpon him to set downe* 1.170 a platforme of a Churche, to prescribe the maner of electing mini∣sters, of their exercises, of their equalitie, of the gouernment of the Churche. &c. Whiche surely beeing well considered, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 appeare not onely a confused platforme, without any sounde warraute of God worde, but also a fantasticall deuise, tending to the ouerthrowe of learning, religion, yea the whole state and gouernment of the common wealth.

But bicause I haue before in the confutation of the first Admo∣nition, spoken sufficiently of all these matters, therfore I wyll one∣ly note one or two thinges in this parte to lette you vnderstande that these platformers buylde not vpon that foundation that they would haue others so strictly bound vnto: for let them tell me vpon* 1.171 what Scripture this is grounded: Let no one minister medle in any cure saue his owne, but as he is appoynted by common consent of the nexte conference, or Coun∣cels Prouinciall or Nationall, or further (if it may fall out so) generall of all Churches re∣formed▪ Or this: That the ministers must be equall, and that some must be gouerned by all, and not all by some? Or that, The Pastor or teacher in euery congregation ought to be the Principall of the consistorie of their congregation? Or that, Many pari∣shes may be ioyned in one, and haue one Pastor, and yet that it is vnlawful for one Pastor to haue many Parishes? Or that, In the meane whyle tyll preachers encrease to furnish the places vnfurnished, vpon conference among the learned, some discrete man be appoyn∣ted to make some entyer prayer. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

Passed ouer in silence.

A vievve of the seconde Admonition.

Or that it is euill so ofte to repeate, Glory be to the father. &c. Lorde haue mercy vpon* 1.172 vs. &c. Or the Lords prayer: for the text whiche they alleage for the same, Math. 6. is wickedly wrested, and corruptly alleaged: for the wordes of Christ be not (as they translate them) when you pray▪ vse not vayne repetitions, but vvhen you pray, vse not muche babling: whereby not the ofte repetition of good prayers, but vayne babling in pray∣ers, that is, many wordes without fayth, and the inwarde affec∣tion of the mynde, is forbidden. Paule. 1. Thes. 5. sayth, Pray conti∣nually, And Christ Matth. 6. sayth, Pray on this maner, Our father, &c. So that of necessitie we must oftentimes repeate the Lords prayer, if we wyll beleeue Christ and his Apostle Paule. But Lorde what straunge doctrine is this, to call Glory be to the father. &c. Lorde haue mer∣cy vpon vs. &c. Our father. &c. Popishe? Surely these men (as I suppose) be not well in their wits.

T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 3.

For the repetition of Gloria patri. &c. I haue spoken sufficiently before: but what spirite is it that calleth this translation of the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 (vse not vayne repetitions) a wycked wresting of S. Mathewes place in his sixt chapter? what rasor is this that cueteth so sharpe? Knoweth he agaynst whome, and agaynst the excellent learning, and singular pietie of howe many

he 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eaketh? For this is the translation of those learned and godly men, which translated the Byble. which is commonly called the Geneua Byble: and is this a wicked wresting? Admitte it were not translated exactly, to the worde of the Euangelist: is it therefore a wresting, and a wicked wre∣sting? 〈◊〉〈◊〉 hat (I will not say wicked) but false conclusion or doctrine can be grounded of this tr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n∣slation? And they that translate it thus, haue not onely the authoritie of the Lexicons to confirme their translation, w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ch shewe that this worde was taken vp in reproche of a foolishe Poet called Battus, which vsed to repeate one thing many times: but they haue also the circumstance of the place to warrant it. For the reason which our 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉auiour Christ vseth to draw men from this faul〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, leadeth to this translation, and can not stande with that sense which M. Doctor setteth downe. For howe hang these togither: you shall not bable many words without fayth. &c. bicause your heauenly father knoweth what you haue neede of before you aske? It is vnlike first, that our saui∣our Christ would speake thus (bable not many wordes without 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ayth. &c.) when as rather he would haue forbidden them to speake any one worde without fayth. &c. For if he shoulde speake thus, he should seeme to haue allowed a prayer without fayth, so that it were not conceyued in ma∣ny words. And agayne, if (as M. Doctor sayth) this had beene the proposition, which our sauiour Christ diswaded from, that they should not bable many words without fayth. &c. he woulde neuer h〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ue added this reason (for your heauēly father knoweth. &c.) for neyther is he father vnto any such. And he would rather haue sayde as S. James in the first chap. sayth, that they shoulde be sure to receyue nothing, bicause they aske not in fayth. Nowe as this reason can not stande with M. Doc∣tors interpretation: so doth it well ag〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ee with the translation of the Geneua Byble. For what could be more fitly sayde to driue the disciples from this vayne repetition, than to say that the hea∣uenly father knoweth. &c. and that it is not with the Lorde as it is with men, that muste haue a thing oftentimes spoken, or euer they can vnderstande it? Furthermore what a reason is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉his: we must repeate y^e Lords prayer oftentimes, therfore we must repeate it oftentimes in hal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e an houre, and one in the necke of an other? And if S. Paules place to the Thes. (pray continually) bee refer∣red vnto the saying of the Lords prayer (as M. Doctor woulde beare vs in hande) then it is not lawfull for vs to vse any other words, than those which our sauiour Christ vsed. But I could ne∣uer yet learne that those words binde vs of necessit〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e any more vnto the repe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tion of the Lordes prayer worde for worde, than vnto the repetition of any other godly prayer in the scripture. And I would be lothe to saye that it were simply necessarie, to vse that iust number of wordes, and ney∣ther more nor lesse any time, muche lesse oftentimes in so smal a space. For our sauiour Christ doth not there giue a pre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cript forme of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rayer whervnto he vindeth vs: but giueth vs a rule, and squire to frame all our prayers by, as I haue before declared. I know it is necessarie to pray, and to pray often. I kn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉we 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lso that in so fewe words it is impossible for any man to frame so pithy a prayer: And I confesse that the Church doth well in concluding their prayers with the Lords prayer: but I stand vpon this, that there is no necessitie layde vpon vs to vse these very words, and no more, and especially that the place of S. P〈1 line〉〈1 line〉le to the Thessalomans, dothe least of all proue it. As for M. Doctors outcries he hath so often worne our eares with them, and that without cause, that I thinke by this tunc no man regardeth them.

Io. Whitgifte.

I doe not say that so to translate the place is a wicked wresting or corrupte allea∣ging of it: but this I say, that that place is wicke〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ly wrested, and corruptly alleaged* 1.173 by the Adm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nition, to improue the oft rep〈1 line〉〈1 line〉titien of the Lords prayer. Neyther doe I thinke that translation to be so apt, as the other is. M. Beza in his notes vpon this place of S. Mat. sayth thus: Ne sit is loquaces 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, be not full of wordes. Vulg. Nolite multum loqui, doe not bable muche. Erasmus. Ne 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉itis multiloqui, id est, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 quo id〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m declaratur. Longae tamen preces hîc non damnātur, sed quae vanae sunt, inanes & su∣per〈1 line〉〈1 line〉titiosae. Longa enim non est oratio in qua nihil redundat: centra vero breuis esse non potest, quae non proficiscitur ex 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nimo pio & fideli: Be not bablers or full of words, that is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 wherby the same thing is signified: yet are not long prayers heere condemned, but those that are vayne, fond, & superstitious. For it is not a long prayer, wherin nothing is to much: on the other side it can not be short which proceedeth not out of a godly & faithfull mind.

And that this is the true interpretation of this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 it appeareth* 1.174 by that which followeth in the same place, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 for they thinke to be heard for their muche babling. Upon the whiche words Erasmus giueth this note: Hîc non est 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 sed proprio vsus est verbo 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, veluti exponens quid dixerit 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: Heere is not the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, but he vseth the proper worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as it were expounding, what he mente by 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. You sée therfore that the one word expeūdeth the other, which is the surest way of interpreting. M. Caluine vpō the same place sayth thus: Porro eorū stultitiā reprehen∣dit* 1.175 Chris〈1 line〉〈1 line〉us, qui vt Deū persuadea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t & exorent, multum verborum profundunt. Furthermore Christ reprehendeth their folly which do spende many words, that they may persuade and* 1.176 entreate God. And noua glossa ordinaria dothe interprete the worde in lyke maner.

Ferunt Bat tum quendam fuisse in〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ptum Poetā, qui multis & vanis ad nauseam vs{que} repetitis verbis* 1.177 poemata sua conscripserit, ad hoc vnum int〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ntus vt multus esset in verbis: vnde sumptum sit verbum Battologizare, pro inaniter esse multiloquum. It is reported that there was a certayne fooly she Poete called Battus, which wrote his verses with many and vayne repeting of wordes, euen vnto the lothing of any man, being only bent vnto this one thing, that he might haue many wordes: of whom this worde Battologizare was taken, for him that is full of vayne wordes. By al which authorities & interpretations of these learned mē, Christ doth not speake against the oft repetition of the Lords prayer or any other godly prayers, but against vaine babling in praiers, & multiplying of wordes without faith, whether it be by oft repeating or multiplying of them. And therfore also saith M. Martyr, Quare at〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ēdendum* 1.178 est multiloquium tum adhiberi non cum diu precamur, sed cum citra fidem & spiritum verbamulti∣plicamus: wherfore it is to be marked, that then is there much babling, not whē we pray long, but when we multiply wordes without faith and spirite. Neither is there any wryter that doth otherwise interprete this place, not euen those that translate it vayne repetitions.

And the reasons wherby you would ouerthrow this sense be words only & not rea∣sons:* 1.179 for who can thinke y^t Christ doth here condēne long prayers or many wordes, or the repetition of godly praiers (himselfe continuing in prayers a whole night in the mountaine, & oftentimes repeating one & the same prayer, not long before he suffered his passion Math. 26 and willing vs to pray continually, & not to be weary?) But that only he forbiddeth many words without faith, whether it be as I said by multiplying or by repeating: but what should we dally where the wordes of Christ be playne〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 for he saith, Verum orantes ne sitis multiloqui ficut Ethneci: Putant enim fore vt ob multiloquiū suum* 1.180 exaudiantur, Ne igitur efficiamini similes 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉storum, nouit enim pater vester. &c. But when ye pray vse not much babling as the Heathen do, for they thinke that they are heard for their much babling: be ye not therfore like vnto thē: for your father knoweth wherof you haue neede* 1.181 before you aske of him. The wordes be manifest, all interpreters agrée vpon t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ē: and therfore this your dallying is but a prophanation of them.

If we repeate the Lordes prayer twenty times in halfe an houre, so it be done in* 1.182 faith & zeale, it is not this multilo quium or vayne repetitions that Chris〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e speaketh of in this place. Christ himself as I haue said before, repeated thrice one prayer in the same wordes as it is euident Math. 26. which he would not ha〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e do〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e if y^e faithful & zealous repetition of prayers, had bin this much babling or vayne repetitiōs, wher of he spea∣keth in this. 6. of Math. I do not say that the place of S. Paule. 1. Thes. 5. is to be vn∣derstanded only of the Lordes prayer, but this is my saying, that for asmuch as we are cōmaunded to praye continually by S. Paule in that place, & th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Lord hath sayd when ye praye, pray on this manner, Our father which art in heauen. &c. Therfore the oft repe∣tition of this prayer being in faith & zeale, can not bée accounted vayne repetition or much babling. I know it is lawfull to vse other godly prayers, besides it, neither haue you euer heard me vtter one worde to the contrary: I know likewise that it is not on∣ly a prayer to be vsed, but also a rule to be followed in framing all our other prayers by, whatsoeuer. And yet a prayer it is, and a necessary prayer to be vsed, as the very wordes of Christ do declare.

A vievve of the second Admonition.

These & a number of other phansies they haue in this booke which they can not grounde vpon any scriptures, but by wringing and wre∣sting of them: and in deede their seeking is, to haue all things framed according to their fansies, that they may be accompted planters and platformers of churches.

I omitte this that the author boasteth, that he and many others will set thē selues against vs, as the professed enimies of the churche of Christ: For the matter is not great, neither shall they in that point dea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e an〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 otherwyse with vs, than the Anabaptistes, 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ther H〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e likes haue dealte with other Churches.

This shalbe sufficiēt for an answere to y^• booke, bicause all other mat∣ters of substance are by me answered before in the former cōfutatiō.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing answered, neither is this proclamation of defense solued.

A briefe ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets spread abroad of late.

I haue of late receiued three litle Pamphlets, the first as it were a preface to the other two, the second entituled, An exhortation to the Bishops, to deale brotherly with their brethren: The thirde, An exhortation to the Bishops and their clergie to answere a litle booke that came foorth the last Parliament, and to other bre∣thren to iudge of it by Gods worde, vntil they see it answered, and not be carried away with any respect of men.

The preface cōsisteth of these pointes especially: first by diuers exā∣ples it is there declared, that the wicked and vngodly of this world, could neuer away with suche as would reproue them for their mani∣fest sinnes and vngodlines.

Secondly, that this is the cause why these twoo treatises whiche were lately written and imprinted in the laste Parliament time. &c. wer of so many misliked, and the authors therof so cruelly entreated and streightly imprisoned &c.

Thirdly, it raileth on the bishops and such as be in authoritie, com∣paring them to false prophets, and to Phariseis. &c. Last of all it cō∣cindeth with threatening, that if they go forwarde in their synnes, their doings shalbe with more bitternes of wordes, and plainenesse of speache throwen into their faces.

The first is nedelesse, for who knoweth not that from time to time it hath bin the manner of such as were desperatly wicked, not to suf∣fer their sinnes openly to be reproued. The second is false, vncharita∣ble, & slaunderous, for the cause why the bookes be not estemed (espe∣cially of the wise & learned) is the vntrue doctrine conteined in them, mainteined with vntrue and v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉apt allegations of the scriptures, and enterlaced with opprobrious termes and railing speaches tending to the disquietnes of the church, and ouerthrow of true religiō. The au∣thors therof to be imprisoned, not for telling any mā of his sinnes, but for writing libels against this whole church of England, against the booke of common praer, against the ministery, against y^e sacraments, finally against the whole forme and gouernmēt of the church by the whole consent of this Realme established, and according to the rule of Gods word. And with what face can you say that they be imprisoned for telling men of their sinnes? where euer reade you or heard you, that any of the Prophets or Apostles tolde men of their sinnes by libels? Sure∣ly* 1.183 that kinde of dealing is not for the Apostles of Christe, but for the ministers of Sathan.

T C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1.

〈1 line〉〈1 line〉here he saith the authors of the Admomtion are not punished, or their booke misliked, for that it telleth of the faults in the church. or of the sinnes of men, but for y^t it mainteineth false doctrine, & for that they preferred a libel: for the doctrine, it appeareth by that which is said, what it is. And if he would define what a libel were▪ it were easy to answere vnto the other point. If he meane bicause it was preferred without any name vnto it, how will he answere (*) 1.184 to the example of S. Iohn in y^e Apocalips, who reprehend〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ng the ministers o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 diuers churches▪ did not (a) 1.185 put to his name vnto his book. And to the writer of the Epistle vnto the Hebrewes▪ which was a singular instrument, and did not subscribe his epistle, wherin notwithstāding he sharply rebuketh diuers faults amongst thē.

And yet S. Iohn nor the writer to the Hebrues were not the ministers of Satan. And if he call it a libell, bycause it vseth some sharper speaches, surely all men see that his booke deserueth then to be called a Satyr, hauing for tart words, bitter, and for one, twenty. But in what respect soeuer he calleth it a libell, he accuseth not so much the authours of the Admonition for preferring of it, as di∣uers of the honorable house of Parliament, which did allow it.

Io. Whitgifte.

The comparison is very vnequall and odious, that you make betwixte the holy bookes of the Scripture, indited by the spirit of God, and reputed and taken as porti∣ons of the canonicall scriptures, wherein only we haue to séeke the doctrine of sal∣uation: and these rayling, rude, vncharitable, and vnlearned Admonitions. And yet in the one of them, that is in the Reuelation you are fouly ouershot, for the name of* 1.186 the author of that booke is expressed thrée times in the firste chapter, and that with such circumstances that it cannot well be doubted who the author was, though you would cauill about the multiplicitie of the name. Likewise his name is expressed in the latter chapter of the booke: wherefore you were not well aduised when you set it downe that S. Iohn in the Apocalips did not put his name to his booke. He saithe in the. 1. cap. in the first verse, Seruo suo Iohanni, and in the. 4. verse Ioannes. 7. ecclesijs quae sunt in Asia, and a little after. Ego Ioannes frater vester. &c. and in the last chap. Ego Ioannes qui audiui & vidi haec. The epistle to the Hebrues hath no opprobrious and slanderous words in it, neither doth the author thereof séeke to defame or deface any body, as the authors of the Admonition do.

If my booke be comparable to eyther of the Admonitions in sharpe and vnchari∣table speaches, proue it vnto me by comparing them togither, and surely I will like the worse both of my boke and of my self: and confesse that I haue offended. Although I might excuse my selfe in saying that I haue done it in the defense of the truth, and vendicating this Church of England from such vntollerable slanders, as they bur∣then it with.

If any of the honorable house of Parliament did consent to the publishing of it in that manner and forme that it was published (which I am sure they did not, as you vndutifully and vntruly charge them) I will not excuse them: and yet they cannot be said to be either the authors or the publishers of it: neither can their allowing of it, ex∣cuse it from being a libell, being not orderly in Parliament propounded, but disor∣deredly (I might say seditiously,) spread abroade in corners to the defamation of thys whole state and Church of England, not to any reformation.

But to satisfye your desire that would so gladly know what a libell is, I will tell* 1.187 you in few words. An infamous libell is that, that is written in verse, or in prose, to y^t infamy & slander of any man, to y^• which the author dare not set his name. This is an infamous libel, & it most aptly agréeth to y^• booke called an Admonition to y^e Par∣liamēt: So that by this definition your obiectiō also of y^e booke of y^e Apocalips, & of the epistle to the Hebrues is soone answered: for al those bookes are not libells which are published without the authours name, but those whiche are published to the infamy or slander of others, to the which the authors dare not set their names.

An ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets.

The third commeth of the same spirit that the secōd doth, that is,* 1.188 of the spirit of arrogancie and malice: for it compareth godly, wise, zelous & learned bishops to idolatrous Priestes, & to Pharisies: but indeede the conditions & qualities of the Phariseis do most aptly a∣gree with y^e authors of these Libels, & their adherēts: for the Pha∣risies did al that they did, to be seene of men, & sought the commēda∣tion* 1.189 of the common people, as appeareth Math. 6. &. 23. & so do they: The Pharisies when they fasted disfigured their faces, & these wal∣king in the streates, hang downe their heads, looke austerely, and in company sigh muche, and seldome, or neuer laugh: the Pharisies

strayned out a gnat, and swallowed downe a camell. And these men think it an heynous offence to weare a cap or a surplisse, but in slaun∣dering and backbyting their brethren, in rayling on them by libels, in contemning of superiors, and discrediting such as be in authoritie: to be short, in disquieting the Churche and state, they haue no consci∣ence. The Phariseis separated themselues from the common sort of men, as more holy, and contemned the poore Publicanes as sinners: And therefore some learned interpreters thinke, that they be called Pharisaei, quasi segregati, quòd vitae sanctimonia, à vulgi moribus & vita separati essent, non aliter* 1.190 at{que} monachi, quos Chartusianos vocant. They be called Phariseis as separated and de∣uided from the commō sort in holynes of life, much like vnto the Monkes, which be called Carthusians. And Iosephus saith that they were called Phariseis, bycause they seemed to be more holy than other, and more* 1.191 cunningly to expound the law. Also he saythe thys to be one proper∣tie of theirs, that whatsoeuer their owne reason perswadeth them, Id sequuntur pertinaciter, that they stubbornly follow. Agayne he sayth that they be astutum hominum genus, arrogans, & interdum Regibus quo{que} infestum, &c. A subtile kynde of men, arrogant, and sometimes enimies to kings and rulers: These men separate themselues also from the congregation, and will communi∣cate with vs neither in prayers, hearing the word nor sacraments: they contemne and despise all those that be not of their sect, as pollu∣ted, and not worthy to be saluted, or kept company with: and there∣fore some of them meeting their old acquaintance, being godly prea∣chers, haue not only refused to salute them, but spit in their faces, wishing the plague of God to light vpon them, and saying that they were damned, and that God had taken his spirit from them, and all this, bycause they did weare a cappe: wherefore when they talke of Phariseis, they plucke themselues by the noses. But Lord, what a straunge time is this, when such as they be, dare thus boldly publish libells against their superiours for mainteining and executing good and godly lawes.

The conclusion of this preface is a stoute, presumptuous and ma∣lapert threatning, in my opinion, not to be suffered: But howsoeuer your pen and tongue walketh, yet I pray you holde your handes, or else. &c.

T. C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. 2.

Whereas M. Doctor compareth vs with the Phariseys, and saythe we do all to be seene of men, and that we hold downe our heads in the streates, and straine at a gn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t swallowing downe a Camell, bycause they are in all mens knowledge, I will leaue it to them to iudge of the truthe of those things. Where he saith we seldome or neuer laugh, it is not therefore that we thinke that it is not lawfull to laugh, but that the considerations of the calamities of other churches, and of the ruines of ours, with the heauie iudgements of the Lord which hang ouer vs, ought to turne our laughing into weeping, besides that a man may laugh although he shew not his teeth. And so Ie∣rome* 1.192 in effect answereth in an epistle which he wrote, where vpon occasion that certaine vsed the same accusation that M. Doctor doth, he saith, bycause we do not laugh with open mouth, there∣fore we are counted sadde.

And where he saith we separate our selues from all congregations, and are ennimies to prince, and that we would seeme to be holyer thā other, these and such like slaunders are answered before. And if there be any that refuse to salute godly preachers, or spit in any mans face, or wish the plague of God to light vpon them, or say that they be damned, we defend not, nor allow of any such behaui∣oure. And it is vnreasonable that the fault of one, should be imputed to so many, and to those which do as much mislike of it as M. Doctor himselfe. And what needed M. Doctor to bid the authors of these exhortations to hold their hands, where do they in a worde offer to strike? Belike hys tongue is his owne, and therefore he speaketh whatsoeuer he listeth.

Io. Whitgifte.

I shewe how much more aptely the qualities and conditions of the Phariseys a∣grée to you and to your sect, than they can doe to suche as the authors of those pam∣plets call phariseys.

I know you can both laugh, iest, and give, when you are among your selues, and so coulde the Phariseys doo: but I speake of youre behauior in open places, and be∣fore suche as do not so well know you. It is vnlyke that you mourne for the ruines or calamities of any Churches, séeing that you séeke with might and mayne the confusion of this, by stirring vp schismes and contentions in it. That which I speake of sepa∣rating your selues from the congregation. &c. is well knowne to be true, in a number of you: and the contemptuous behauiour of some of you (pretending moste zeale) towardes some of vs, argueth what spirite you are of, and what your zeale is, euen that that Zuinglius doth charge the Anabaptists with, when he sayth, Ira est non spiri∣tus quo se venditant.

The ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets. &c.

In this portion entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren: ther is no great matter conteined worthie of answering, only the author doth excuse himselfe, for taking vpon him that exhor∣tation, & moueth the Bishops to deale brotherly with the authors of the Admonition. First, bicause they be their 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rethren: secondly bi∣cause they ought first to haue discouered vnto the world by the word of God, howe truely or falsely they haue written. Thyrdely, by∣cause they do but disclose the disorders of our Churche of England, and humbly desyre a reformation of the same, according to the rule of Gods worde. &c. Fourthly, that Papists lye abroade in their dio∣ces vntouched. &c. Fiftly, that many lewde light bookes, and bala∣des flye abroade printed, not onely withoute reprehension, but Cum priuilegio.

Likewise in y^e same booke the author seemeth to iustifie the Admo∣nitiō, & to condemne the lordship and authoritie of Bishops, ascribing thervnto the stay & hinderance of their pretenced reformation: char∣ging them after a sorte with mangling the Scriptures of God, and with snaring the godly with such lawes as were purposely made for the wicked. These be the principall contentes of that booke.

The first reason, that is, That they be their brethren, might as wel be al∣leaged* 1.193 for the impunitie of Anabaptists, Arrians, and such like, who pretend the sinceritie of gods word, and would be counted brethren: yea it might as well be alleaged for many other malefactours, who be also brethren, and yet must not therfore escape vnpunished for their offences. Shall not the Prince and the magistrate execute lawes vpon suche as breake them, bicause they be their brethren in Chryst? Beware of such doctrine, and let not affection in priuate mens causes carie you headlong into publike errors. But I thinke you are in this pointe deceiued, for howsoeuer we accompte them our brethren: yet they accompt not vs their brethren, neyther will they acknowledge vs so to be, as some of them both in open speache and manifest signes haue declared. And therfore when the Bishops deale with them, they deale with suche as disdayn to be called their brethren.

T. C. Page. 177. Sect. 3.

After M. Doctor confuteth his owne shadow, for the exhortatiō doth not require that the name

of a brother should deliuer the authors of the Admonition from punishment, if they deserued it, but desi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth that it might worke some moderation of the rigoure of it, and compassion to minister to their necessities in prison. He sayeth that the authors of the Admonition, take not them for theyr brethren, yes verily, although vnbrotherly handled, and for fathers too, and so both loue them, and reuerence them, vntill (which we hope will not be) they shall manyfestly for the vpholdi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g of their owne kingdome and profite, refuse to haue Christe to reigne ouer vs, in whome this fatherhoode and brotherhoode doth consist.

Io. Whitgifte.

Let the readers iudge whether it be one of their reasons or no: let them also consi∣der that which I haue before alledged out of the second Admonition, pag. 35. & then tell me whether they take vs for brethren, or no.

Can you so well please your selues in your own platforme, y^t except we admit it, we refuse Christ to reigne ouer vs, I trust he hath reigned ouer vs hitherto, and shall doo to the end, though your platforme be sunke to the bottome of the sea.

An ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets.

To their second reason I answer, that I thinke they haue bin tal∣ked with, and heard what they haue to say for them selues, but their hautie mindes and good opinion conceyued of themselues, will not suffer them to see their errours. In this reason you alledge nothyng for them, but that which may also be alledged for the Papists, or any other sect of heretikes. But it is an old saying, Turpe est doctori &c. How hapneth it that they themselues haue first defamed, not the Bishops only, but also this whole Church of England with publike libells, before they haue vsed brotherly and priuate conference? This is to espie a moate in an other mannes eye. &c.

How true the thirde reason is, may appeare in my answere to their Admonition, but how true soeuer it were, yet their disordered disclo∣syng, by vnlawful meanes, (that is, by libelling) deserueth as much punishment as hitherto they haue had: for the truth nedeth no such vngodlie meanes of disclosyng.

If Papists goe abroade vnpunished, when by lawe they maye be touched, surely it is a greate faulte, and can not bee excused, and I praye God it maye bee better looked to. But thys is no good and sufficient reason for the impunitie of other: Bicause some Papi∣stes be not punished, shal therfore no disordered persons be punished? Or bicause some in authoritie winke at some Papists, shall therfore no lawes be executed towardes any offenders? Surely touchyng malice agaynst the forme and state of this oure Churche, I see no greate difference betwixt them and the Papists, and I think veri∣ly they both conspire together. The same answere I make to youre first reason: shall no booke be suppressed bicause some be not? It is a faulte I confesse, to suffer lewde Ballades and Bookes touchyng* 1.194 manners. But it were a greater faulte to suffer bookes and Libells, disturbing the peace of the Churche, and defacing true religion.

Concerning the titles and offices of Bishops, I haue spoken suf∣ficiently before.

In manglyng and wrestyng of the Scriptures, none offende so muche as doe the authors of the Admonition, who in that point are comparable to the Papistes, as may be seene by the learned and diligent Reader.

If they whom they terme godly do willingly offende against such lawes as were made for the wicked, they are to be punished accor∣ding to the lawes, neyther are they to be spared bicause they pre∣tende* 1.195 godlynesse: for there is no godlinesse in breaking of lawes.

The thirde scroule, called, (An Exhortation to the Bishoppes and to theyr Cleargie to answere a little booke. &c.) is satisfyed (I trus〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e) for I haue (as it is there required) answered the short and peeuishe Pamphlet (as they tearme it) I haue disclosed their double and corrupt dealing, theyr wringing of the Scriptures to serue their turne, and haue declared the true sense & meaning of thē: I haue not bumbast〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d it with retho∣rike, but in plain & simple maner vttered my iudgement, according to* 1.196 the true meaning and sense of the Scriptures: notwithstanding I haue in sundrie pointes declared the vse of the Church of Christ in tymes past, and do vse the testimonie of auncient Councels and lear∣ned fathers, whiche these vnlearned men vnlearnedly contemne, a thing not heard of in any age or Churche, nor allowed of any learned man, but onely of certaine heretikes, and especially Anabaptists. To be short, I haue not answered the booke by peeces, but wholy. How∣beit I must desyre them to pardon me, for not making more speede with my answere: their friuolous quotations so troubled me, and my other businesse, that I could no sooner make an ende of it. In all the rest of that deryding Pamphlet, there is nothing of any moment,* 1.197 worth the answering. Therefore as they alledge this portion of a sentence taken out of S. Augustine in his Epistle ad Vinc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n. Si terrerentur & non docerentur improba quasi dominatio videretur, If they shoulde be feared and not taught it might seme a vvicked gouernance: so I con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lude with the other part of the same sentence: Si docerentur, & non terrerentur, vetustate consuetudinis 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉bdurarentur, & ad capescendam viam salutis pigrius mouerentur: If they should be taught and not feared, in time they vvoulde vvaxestubburne, and bethe hardlier moued to imbracethe vvay of saluation.

T. C. Pag. 177. Sect. vlt.

I know not whether they haue bene conferred with or no, but I thinke the first reason which they had to perswade them, was that they should go to Newgate▪ which is that which the Exhor∣tation cō〈1 line〉〈1 line〉layneth of after, that they are first punished before they be taught. And in this beh〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lfe M. Doctor hath no cause to complaine as he doth. For if he list he may learne or euer he go to prison.

Io. Whitgifte.

If they were so sent to that place, it was a méete reward for such disorderly dea∣ling, for ignorance may not excuse Libellers, if they libell but against a priuate man, much lesse shoulde it excuse them, slaundering in that maner this whole Church and realme. I doubt not but that I shall learne to know my selfe, & to do mydutie whilest I am out of prison, so that I shall not iustly for lacke of dutie and honestie deserue it.

T. C. Pag. 178. Lin. 2.

And as for the truth of the cause, and wresting and mangling of the Scriptures, in most places where they are sayde to mangle and wrest, and how he hath answered the r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉quest of the Exhorta∣tion, which is, to confute the Admonition by the Scriptures, and how truly, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ptly, and learnedly, M. Doctor hath behaued himself, in citing of the old Councels, and fathers: I leaue it to be estee∣med, partly of that which I haue sayde, and partly by the deeper consideration of those, which by∣cause they can better iudge, may see further into M. Doctors faults-and rapfodyes than I can Al∣though the truth is, that I haue bicause I would not make a long booke, by heaping of one repre∣hension vpon an other, contented my selfe rather to trip, as it were, and to passe ouer with a light

foote, the heades and summes of things, than to number the faults, which are almost as many as there are sentences in this booke, more I am sure than there are pages.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue confuted both them and you, according to the giftes and grace that God hath gyuen mée, with suche authorityes both of Scriptures and other lear∣ned Auth ours, as is fitte to be vsed in the decyding of suche controuersies. And I am well assured that you haue not omitted the least blot in my booke: and for the most part you haue feyned (agaynst your owne knowledge) those to be whiche are not. I refuse no mans iudgement of my dealing with the olde Councels and fathers, that is learned and will speake without affection what he thinketh. Your hyperbolicall conclusion or figure of lying, where with you close vp your booke, I am well vsed vnto, and therefore it doth nothing trouble me, but remayneth as a certaine note of the spirite that possesseth you, which is the spirite of vntruth.

THus haue I, (according to that talent that God hath committed vnto me) ende∣uoured my selfe to defende the state of this Church of England, and the orders and rites therein by publyke authoritie established, agaynst the slaunderous libelles of certaine vnquiet persons, and this vncharitable replie of T. C. If eyther I haue omit∣ted any thing, that might haue béene vttered (as I haue omitted many things) or not so fully answered euery poynt, that all men thereby may be satisfied, namely such as will be satisfied with reason, I doubt not but that there be a great number of singu∣lar learning and knowledge which will fulfill my want. The which I do desire them most heartily to do, euen for the loue that they haue to the peace of the Church: & not to suffer so common and weightie a cause, to rest onely vpon one mans shoulder, so farre inferiour to so many of them in all respects. The contrarie part ceasse not to lay theyr heades togither, and to make it all theyr cases, which would more euident∣ly appeare, if their might were according to their will. Therefore séeing that we like and allowe of the state, let vs not suffer it to be defaced vniustly, and without either learning or truth. And if it shall please the contrarie part to answere this my de∣fense, then do I require no other thing of them, than the selfe same, which the Author of the Replie hath required of me, and the which I haue accordingly performed, that is, that they set downe my wordes, and answere me wholy: which vnlesse they do, they shal not onely with all wise men greatly dis〈1 line〉〈1 line〉redite themselues, and shewe the lacke of truth to be on their side: but also ease me of some paynes: for I purpose not to answere Pamphlets, nor to spend the time in confuting friuolous Libels. The Lorde graunt that my labours may worke that effect that I desire: that is, peace in the Church, and true obedience in the heartes of the Sub∣iects.

Amen.

¶ An examination of the places cited in the end of the Replie touching matters in controuersie.

T. C.

ACcording to my promise made in my boke, I haue here set down the iudgemēt of the la∣ter writers, concerning these matters in controuersie betwene vs. VVherin bicause I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make mine to grow: I haue kept this moderation, that I neither set downe all the writers, nor all their places that I coulde, nor yet of euery singular matter: But the chiefest writers, and either of the chiefest points, or else of those, wherein they are alledged against vs by M. Doctor, and one only place of eache (as farre as I coulde iudge and chose out) most directe to that wherefore I haue alledged it. For otherwise if I would haue spoken of all the pointes, and of the iudgement of all the writers, and gathered all the places that I coulde, they would haue ben sufficient matter of an other boke as bigge or rather bigger than this. I must also admonishe the Reader, that I haue forborne in certeine of these titles to sette downe the iudgements of M Beza. M. Bullinger and M. Gualter: bycause they are comprehended in the confession of the Churches. And thus partly vpō those sentences which I haue alledged in this booke, and partly vpon these testimonies here set down: I leaue to the consideration of all men, howe truely and iustly it is sayd, that the learned writers of thesetimes (one or two only excepted) are against vs.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely it had bene more commendable in mine opinion, if you had sette downe the verie wordes of the Authors themselues, rather than your own collections 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pon them: for so shoulde their iudgements more plainely haue appear〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, whereas now you frame them as they may best serue for your purpose. It is no shame for a man to translate out of other mens workes, especially vsing their testimonies: but it cannot be voyde of great reproch, for any man so to be addicted to his owne persua〈1 line〉〈1 line〉on, that he should so lightly regarde other mens opinions.

I doubt not but that the Reader will conceiue by these authorities that you haue here collected as chiefe, principall, and moste euident for the confirmation of your assertions, vpon what slender pillers your building standeth. For truely (so farre as I can gather) most of these places make little for your purpose, and none of them inforce any such necessitie as you séeme to vrge, as it will fall out in the examina∣tion of them.

T. C.

1 That there ought nowe to be the same regiment of the Churche, which was in the Apostles time.

The confession of the Heluetian, Tygurin, Berne, Geneua, Polonia, Hungarie, and Scot∣lande with others, in the 18. chapter speaking of the equalitie of Ministers saith, that no mā may iustly forbid to returne to the olde constitution of the Churche of God, and to recei〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e it before the custome of man.

Io. Whitgifte.

The confession in that place, speaketh not one word of hauing Seniors in euery Parish: neither yet of any other Seniors than those that be Ministers of the word and Sacramentes, for the whole chapter intreateth of such.

Moreouer it sayth not that we ought to returne to that old gouernment, but that we maye returne: so that it is from your purpose, and maketh more against you than with you. For the question is not whyther we maye returne to that 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ynde of go∣uernment or no, if it seeme good to the Christian Magistrate to whome God hath now committed the gouernment of the Church, but whether the Christian Magi∣strate ought of necessitie to receiue that kynde of gouernment, and no other: which this confession doth no where affirme.

T. C.

M. Caluine in his Institutions. 4. booke. 3. chapter, and. 8. section, speaking of the auncients which did assist the Pastors in euery Church, sayth that experience teacheth that that order

was not for one age, and that this office of gouernment is necessarie to all ages.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Caluine in that place sheweth what hath bene, and what maye be in the Churche, but he doth not make that kynde of gouernment so necessarie that it can not be altered. His meaning is, that that kinde of gouernment is necessarie for all ages, bycause in euery age the Churche in one place or other is in persecution: but he no where saythe (as I remember) this kynde of gouernment to be necessarie in all states of the Churche, nay he affirmeth the directe contrarie in the same booke the seuenth chapter, and. 15. section. Where he speaking of the gouernment of the Churche, sayth thus: Scimus autem politiam pro varietate temporum, recipe∣re, imò exigere varias mutationes. Wee knowe that the gouernment of the Churche (accor∣ding to the diuersitie of times) dothe receyue, yea, require or exacte diuers alterations.

T. C.

And in the. 12. chapter and first section of the same booke, saythe as much of Excom∣munication and other Ecclesiasticall censures.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Caluine sheweth in that place, howe necessarie discipline is in the Churche, whych is not denyed: he speaketh not in that section of any thyng nowe in con∣trouersie.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the thirde to the Romaines, teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge hir gouernment, yet the Church alwayes keepeth hirs stil.

Io. Whitgifte.

Let the Reader peruse that place, and he shall perceiue howe cunning you are in counterfeiting. For M. Martyr speaketh there onely of the lawes of God whiche be immutable, and sheweth that therein the Churche of God doth differ from a com∣mon wealth, bycause the common wealth doth often chaunge hir lawes, but the Churche doth not so, and he meaneth such lawes as be of the essence, and being of the Church, & are of fayth and of saluation. He speaketh also of the inwarde and es∣sentiall forme of the Church, not of the external and accidental forme of it, whych is now in question, and of the spiritual gouernment, not of the externall gouernment. Certaine it is, that no law of God (not being personall or temporall) is to be altered. But I require to haue that law sette down, which establisheth this forme of gouern∣ment for the whiche you nowe contende.

T. C.

Bucer in his firste booke of the kingdome of Christe the. 15. chapter, lamenteth that there were found amongst those which are counted of the forwardest Christians, which woulde not haue the same discipline vsed nowe, that was in the times of the Apostles, ob∣iecting the differences of times, and of men.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is nothing in that chapter that maketh any thing wyth you, or against me: for who denyeth, but that the discipline that Christe hath appoynted ought to be mainteined and kept in his Church: our question is of the manner of executing it, of the persons, and of certaine other circumstances, whereof M. Bucer in that chapter speaketh not one worde: and that the Reader may vnderstande howe you seeke to delude him, I will recite the wordes of M. Bucer in that chapter, wherein he comprehendeth al that which is spoken in the same chapter touching this matter. Out of all these testimonies of the holy Scripture concerning Christes kingdome, they that beleeue the worde of God shall easily vnderstande, that what soeuer Christe the Lorde bath commaunded vs and appoynted, the same to bring a sure and great helpe to our saluation, if it be so obserued as be bath

commaunded and appointed it: and that in all ages howsoeuer men and times doe varie: neyther can wee wittginly for any cause intermitte or neglecte any of them, but we muste therewith refuse and despise Christe himselfe, and his whole kingdome. All which I graunt: and they touch not a∣ny thing nowe in controuersie. Surely these be but slender testimonies to proue that there ought nowe to be the same regiment of the church, whiche was in the Apostles times, if you speake of the externall regiment, which only is now in question.

T. C.

2 That one minister ought not to haue any dominion ouer an other

The foresaide Heluetian confession. &c. in the seuententh chapter saythe, that Christe did most seuerely prohibite vnto his Apostles, and their successors primacie, and dominion, and in the eightenth chapter saith, that equall power, and function, is giuen vnto all the mi∣nisters of of the Church, and that from the beginning no one preferred himselfe to an other, sauing only that for order, some one did call them togither, propound the matters that were to be consulted of, and gathered the voyces. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

The wordes of the confession in the. 17. chapter be these: truely Christe is present with his Churche, and is a lyuing head, who straightly forbad his Apostles, and their successors, to chalenge the primacie or supremacie in the Church. This the confession speaketh of such pri∣macie & supremacie, as the Byshop of Rome doth chalenge ouer the whole Church, for in that place it onely speaketh of the Popes vsurped authoritie, and not one worde of that superioritie among Ministers which is now in controuersie.

That which the confession affirmeth in the eightenth chapter maketh nothing a∣gainst any superioritie allowed in this Churche of Englande, for we acknowledge that there is one equall power and function of al Ministers, but yet superioritie al∣so to be among them for order sake, and the same doth the Confession acknowledge in plaine and manifest woords, euen in this place by you alledged: whereby also that distinction is verifyed whiche you séeme so greatly to mislyke, to witte, that there is an equalitie of all Ministers of Gods worde quoad ministerium, touching the mini∣sterie, but degrées and superioritie among them, quoad ordinem & politiam, tou∣ching order and gouernment.

T. C.

Musculus in his common places, in the chapter of the offices of the ministers of the worde saith, that in the Apostolike Church, the ministers of the worde were none aboue another, nor subiecte to any head, or president, and mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher de∣gree than another: And further he saith vpon the seconde chapter of the seconde Epistle to the Thessalonians, that the honor of a Bishop, being taken from the rest of the ministers, and giuē to one, was the first step to the papacie, howsoeuer in other places he speaketh otherwise.

Io. Whitgifte.

Musculus in those wordes of his common places, speaketh of superioritie quoad officium & potestatem, touching office and power, (for these wordes dothe he vse) he speaketh not of superioritie touching order and pollicie, whiche is nowe in question. The same power is in all ministers of the worde of bynding, losing, and admini∣string the Sacraments, but not of gouerning in the externall pollicie of the Church. Moreouer Musculus in that place speaketh chiefly of the vsurped power of the By∣shop of Rome, and of that authoritie which his Byshoppes doe chaleng and clai〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e, from him, wherefore that place maye not be wrested against the lawfull iurisdictiō and superioritie that is nowe vsed in this Church of Englande.

Upon the seconde chapter of thée seconde Epistle to the Thessalonians, he onely sheweth how the Pope came to such excessiue authoritie. No man doubteth but that such things as were well instituted and vpon iust considerations, may by proces of

tyme abused: but doth it therfore followe, that they may not be restored to their right vse agayne? A man might then much more strongly reason agaynst your equalitie, which by sufficient tryall (as by Ierome in sundrie places it maye appeare) is pro∣ued to haue bene, and to be the cause of schismes, sectes, contentions, seditions, tu∣multes, murders, confusion of Churches and common weales. &c. Nothing is so well instituted but it may be abused.

T. C.

3 That the election of Ministers, perteyneth not to one man.

The foresayde Heluetian confession, &c. in the eightenth chapter sayth, that the mi∣nisters ought to be chosen of the Churche, or by those which are lawfully deputed of the Churche, and afterwarde ordeyned with publike prayers.

Io. Whitgifte.

This maketh againste you: for the confession alloweth that election of Mi∣nisters which is made by those that are appoynted to that office in the Churche: (for these be the wordes of the Confession) but our Byshops are appointed to that office in this Church, therefore the Confession alloweth Byshops to elect Ministers. The wordes that followe, that they should be ordeyned with publike prayers, is obserued in our Church.

T. C.

M. Caluine in his fourth booke of Institutions. 3. chapter. 15. section, sheweth that the Church did choose, and that the Apostles did moderate the election, aud confuteth them whyche vpon the places of Titus and Timothie woulde proue, that the election belongeth to one man.

Io. Whitgifte.

To this place of M. Caluine I haue sufficiently answered in the thirde treatise of election of Ministers, chap. 7. the. 1. diuision.

T. C.

4 That there ought newe to be Elders to gouerne the Church wyth the Pastors, and Deacons, to prouide for the poore.

Touching Elders, the iudgement of M. Caluine hath beene before declared in the fyrste of these propositions.

Io. Whitgifte.

And in the same place haue I answered, that whych is there by you alledged out of M. Caluine.

T. C.

M. Beza in his booke of Diuorces page. 161. sayth, that the Eldership of the Church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Beza doth not say in that place, that the Eldership of the Churche ought to be where there is a Christian Magistrate, but that it may be: and that it hath bene, which he onely speaketh and proueth not. And yet if he meane that Presbyterie whereof the Canons speake (by him only in generalitie named) then is it no other than we haue at this daye in this Church of Englande, in Cathedrall Churches and Colleges, for in the Canons presbyterium signifieth nothing else, but a Colledge or company of Priestes and Ministers of the worde and Sacraments, as I haue further declared in the. 17. Tract. where I haue also shewed, that M. Beza his opinion is that the gouernment of the Church maye admitte alteration, according to the diuersities of times, place, and persons. cap. vlt.

T. C.

Touching Deacons, M. Caluine. 4. booke. 3. chapter. 9. section, after that he had discribed what Deacons the Churches had in the Apostles tymes, saythe that we, after their example ought to haue the lyke.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Caluines words be these: En quales habuerit diaconos Apostolica ecclesia, quales ad eius exemplum habere nos conueniat. Beholde what Deacons the Apostoli∣call churche had, euen suche as it is conuenient we should haue, according to that example. Hee dothe not saye that we ought to haue them, but that it is conuenient to haue th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉: he doth not make them necessary but conuenient: and he must be vnderstanded to 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke of that Churche whereof he had experience, not of this Churche wherein he was 〈◊〉〈◊〉 a straunger. Of Deacons, and that their office was not only to prouide for the poore, but to preache also, and to baptise, I haue proued Tract. 19. & Tract. 14.

T. C.

M. Beza in the. 5. chap. and. 23. section of his Confessiōs sheweth that the office of the di∣stribution of the goodes of the churche is an ordinarie function in a Churche lawefully con∣stituted, which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship.

Io. Whitgifte.

In neither of these doth M. Beza so tie prouiding for the poore to Deacons that they must by them be prouided for, and by no other: hée onely sheweth what was done in this case in the Apostles tyme, and in the tymes immediatly following: but there is neyther Scripture nor any learned wryter that teacheth that the poore may be by no other prouided for, than by Deacons. You proue that which no man denieth, and speake not one worde of the matter in question, that is, whether of necessitie the poore must be prouided for by Deacons and not otherwyse.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. to the Romaynes, speaking of the Elders, whiche did assiste the Pastor in euery Churche, and of the Deacons, lamenteth that this order is so fallen out of the Churche, that the names of these functions do scarce remayne.

Io. Whitgifte.

That which Peter Martyr speaketh in that place, is spoken generally of all that the Apostle had before wrytten touching the publike ministers of the Churche, and therfore you doe vniustly restrayne it only to Elders and Deacons. It maye euident∣lye appeare that M. Martyr maketh there a comparison betwixt the gouerranent of the Churche of Christe in the Apostles tyme, & the gouernment of the Popes Church in his tyme, as his wordes following declare, for thus he addeth immediatly. In steade of these, they haue brought in Taperbearers, Acoluthes, and Subdeaco〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 which with their light and stagelike gestures, serue at their superstitious altar. So that you can not gather of this place that your Seigniorie is perpetuall, and must of necessitie for euer remayne in the Churche.

T. C.

M. Bucer in his first booke of the kyngdome of Christ, for the auncients of the Churche sayeth, that the number of the Elders of euery Churche ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people, and in the. 14. chapter of the same booke sayeth that this order of Deaconship was religiously kept in the Churche vntill it was dryuen out by Antichriste.

Io. Whitgifte.

It had bene well to haue noted the chapter out of the which you gather that first saying of M. Bucer, howebeit, the matter is not great, for the question is not whether the number of the Elders of euery Churche ought to be encreased according to the number of the

people, or no, in such places where this kynde of gouernment is admitted: but whether this kynde of gouernment muste of necessitie in all Churches and at all tymes be put in practise. I doe not remember that M. Bu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er any where affirmeth that. In déede in the fifth chapter of the firste booke (speakyng of these Seniors,) he sayeth: Tales sanè possunt cum administris doctrinae & Sacramentorum Christi discipli∣nam exercere. &c. Such may exercise the diseipline of Christe with the ministers of the worde and Sacramentes. &c. He sayeth they may doe it, not that they ought to do it.

That whiche M. Bucer speaketh of the Deaconshippe in the 14. chapter, is not denied, but hee nowhere sayeth that the poore muste of necessitie hée prouided for by Deacons, and by none other: and hée teacheth in the same chapter, that mo things apperteyned to the office of the Deacon than to prouide for the poore: as namely to assiste the ministers in the administration of the Sacramentes and exercising of dis∣cipline.

What sufficient proofes these bée to induce that necessitie of the kynde of gouern∣ment so greatly vrged by you, let the learned Reader iudge.

T. C.

5 That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Churche.

M. Caluine in his Institutions. 4. booke, and 11. Chapter, and. 6. Section, teacheth that excommunication porteyneth not to one man, and that it was to wicked a facte that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other, to hymselfe alone, opened a waye to tyrannie, tooke from the Churche hir right, and abrogated the Church Senate, ordeined by the spirite of Christe. And in the. 12 chapter and. 7. Section, he sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Churche.

Io. Whitgifte.

Wée graunte that no one man ought to take that vnto hym selfe which doth not apperteyne vnto him: but I haue proued Tract. 18. that excommunication perteineth to Byshops, and that this Church of England hath consented there vnto: wherefore M. Ca〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uine speaketh against that excommunication whiche the Pope violently and tyrannically vsurpeth, and not against this whiche our Bishoppes in this Churche of Englande, both by the lawes of God and consent of the Churche exercise. I speake of the thing it selfe and not of the abuse.

T. C.

M. Beza in his confessions 5. chapter. 43. Section, sayeth, that this power of excommu∣nicating is giuen to no one man, except it please God to worke extraordinarily.

Peter Martyr vpon the firste to the Corinthes and fifth chapter, sayeth that it is very daungerous, to permitte so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and wil of any one man. And therefore, both that tyrannie might be auoyded, and this censure exe∣ceuted with greater fruite and grauitie, that the order whiche the Apostles there vseth is still to be obserued.

Io. Whitgifte.

To M. Beza and M. Martyr, I answere as I dyd to M. Caluine: and yet M. Mar∣tyr séemeth to expounde hym selfe in the same place where hée speakyng against the committing of this authoritie of excommunicating to the Pope or to one Bishop, and refelling this saying of the Papistes, Episcopum esse totam ecclesiā virtuali∣ter, when as they be rather tora ecclesia vitialiter, as he there affirmeth, he addeth by and by, de malis haec intelligas & tyrannicè agentibus: Vnderstande this of euill Di∣shops and such as deale tyrannically: whereby he declareth that he speaketh agaynst the

committing of this discipline to euill Bishops and such as vse it tyrannically.

T. C.

M. Bucer of the kingdome of Christ. in the. 1. book and. 9. chapter sayth, that Saint Paule accuseth the Corinthians, for that the whole Church, did not cast out of their companie the incestuous person.

Io. Whitgifte.

The question is not whether the whole Church may haue to doe in excommuni∣cation or no, but whither the consent therof is al tymes therein to be required. What the meaning of the Apostle is in that place to the Corinth. I haue declared. Tract. 15.

T. C.

6 That Chauncellours, Commissaries, Officials. &c. vsurpe authoritie in the Church which belongeth not to them.

M. Caluine in his Institutions. 4. booke. 11. chap. 7. Sect. speaketh agaynst the office of Officials, and alledgeth diuers reasons agaynst them, as that they exercise that part of the Bishops charge, and that they handle matters whiche perteyne not to the spirituall iuris∣diction.

Io. Whitgifie.

M. Caluin in that place alledgeth no reasons at al against those offices, only he sayth that they exercise that part of the Bishops charge, and that they handle matters which per∣teyne not to the spirituall iurisdiction, (this I say) he speaketh, but he doth not proue it. In the rest of that Section, he intreateth of the abuses of such officers, wherein I doe not dissent from him.

T. C.

M. Beza in hs booke of Diuorces, prouing that the iudiciall deciding of matrimoniall causes apperteyneth vnto the ciuill magistrate, sayth that Officials, Proctors, end Promoters and in a worde all the swinish filth, now of long time hath wasted the Church.

Io. Whitgifte.

I vnderstande not by what reasons M. Beza in that place proueth that the iudici∣all deciding of matrimoniall causes apperteyneth to the ciuill Magistrate. Howbeeit., Of∣ficials &c. in such cases deale not in this Church of Englande without the consent and authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate. It is not good dealing to applie those things which M. Beza and other speake of such offices abused vnder the Pope., to the same offices nowe reformed vnder a Christian Prince that professeth the Gospell: But thus you dazell the peoples eyes.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. Chap. to the Romaines, speaking against the ciuill iurisdiction of Bishops, doth by the same reason condemne it in their Deputies the Officials.

Io. Whitgifte.

Peter Martyr speaketh not agaynst the office, but agaynst certaine abuses in the officers: this is not simple dealing to transferre that to the office, that is spoken of the abuse of the office.

T. C.

7 That the Ministers of the worde ought not to exercise any 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ill offices and iurisdiction.

M. Caluin in his institutions. 4. booke. 11. chap. 9. Sect. bringeth diuers reasons to proue that Bishops may neyther vs〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rpe, nor take 〈◊〉〈◊〉 giuen them, eyther the right of the sworde, or the knowledge of ciuill causes.

Io. Whitgifte.

The reasons that M. Caluine vseth there, be neyther many, nor greatly strong. I haue answered them fullie. Tract. 23. and yet M. Caluine speaketh onely of that princely power, which the Romishe Bishops clayme, not as committed vnto them by the Prince and and ciuill Magistrate, but due vnto them by the worde of God, from the which chalenge I haue shewed in the foresayde treatise, howe farre our Bishops are.

T. C.

M. Beza in his Confessions Chap. 5. Sect. 32. sayth that the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction is to be distinguished from the ciuill, and that although the Bishoppes in the tymes of chri∣stian Emperours were troubled with the hearing of ciuill causes, yet they did not that by any iudiciall power, which they exercised, but by a friendly intreatie of the parties, whiche were at discorde: and sayth notwithstanding, that herein the Emperours did giue to much to the ambition of certaine Bishops, wherevpon by little and by little afterwarde all things were confounded. And in the. 42. Section sayth that those corporall punishments whiche the Apostles exercised were peculiar and extraordinarie.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Beza his bare worde is no sufficient proofe agaynst so many other testimo∣nies and reasons as are to the contrarie, and I haue sufficiently shewed Tract. 23. cap. 3. Diuis. vlt. that Bishops in tymes past did not onely heare ciuill causes, but also iudi∣cially determine the same. Touching the corporall punishments which the Apostles exercised, M. Beza in his booke de Haereticis a magistratu puniendis, doth make them so ordinarie that he vseth them as sufficient arguments to proue his purpose, and sayth plainly that the Apostles did exercise these punishments, not by the right of the Ecclesi∣asticall ministerie, but by the right of the ciuill Magistracie. as I haue declared Tract. 23. Cap. 3. Diuis. 12.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. to the Romanes, speaking of this meetings of both Eccle∣siasticall, and ciuill iurisdiction in one man, sayth that when both the ciuill, and Ecclesiasti∣call functions do so meete, that one hynder the other, so that he which exerciseth the one cannot minister the other.

Io. Whitegifte.

M. Martyr speaketh of an absolute iurisdiction ciuill, such as the Pope claymeth, and not of this which is practised by the Bishops in the Church of England, whereof he had experience in the dayes of King Edwarde euen in this realme, and the which he also then allowed.

T. C.

M. Bucer vpon the. 5. of Matthew, sayth, that there is no man so wise, and holy, which is able to exercise both the ciuill, and the Ecclesiasticall power, and that therefore he whiche will exercise the one, must leaue the other.

Io. Whitgifte.

I answere as I did to M. Martyr, for he also allowed that ciuill iurisdiction that the Bishops in England did exercise in the time of King Edwarde.

T. C.

8 That the Sacraments ought not to be priuately admi∣nistred, nor by women.

The foresayd confession: C. 20. holdeth that baptisme ought not to be ministred by wo∣men or midwyues, to the which also may be ioyned the Liturgie of the English Church at Geneua, which condemneth the ministring of eyther of the Sacraments in priuate houses, or by women.

I〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Whitgifte.

These be néedlesse proofes, & yet are there learned mē of the cōtrary iudgemēt. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ow beit, no man sayth that women may baptise ordinarily, or that the Sacramonts may

be administred in priuate places, otherwise than vpon vrgent occasion: and in that respecte no learned man dothe condemne the ministring of the Sacramentes in priuate places.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. chapter of the. 1. Epistle to the Corinthes, in describing the cor∣ruptions of the Lordes Supper, noteth this to be one, that the Churche did not communi∣cate altogither, which corruption as it was in diuers places in tymes past, so he complayneth that it is nowe.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Martyr in that place speaketh agaynste priuate Masses, and the complainte that he maketh, is concerning them, wherein we fully agrée with him: neyther doe we like or allowe of suche as withdrawe themselues from the Lordes table when the Supper is celebrated. You neuer loue to rehearse the authors wordes (bycause they make not for you) but gather collections of your owne, contrarie to the mea∣ning of the author, as you do in this place, which the Reader shall easily perceiue, if it wil please him to reade M. Martyr himself, in that place by you quoted. And sure∣ly it is too great iniurie, to wreste that to the order of celebrating the Communion allowed off in this Church of Englande, which he or any man else speaketh agaynst pryuate Masses, but such are your deepe and profounde collections.

T. C.

M. Bucer in his first booke of the kingdome of Christ, and. 7. chapter proueth out of the 10. to the Corinthes, that the whole Churche shoulde receiue the Supper of the Lorde togy∣ther, and that the vse of the Church of God in this behalfe, ought with great and diligent en∣deuour to be restored vnto the Churches, and that it is a contempt of the mysteries not to be partakers when they are called.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Bucer speaketh nothing in that place (touching this question) where vnto I agrée not: he woulde haue the Communion ministred in the publike congregation, & who denyeth that? except it be vpon occasion of sicknesse. &c as I haue before de∣clared: he woulde haue all or the moste parte that be present to communicate, and who defendeth the contrarie? and yet if they will not, the rest may not be secluded: his whole drift is to reproue such as will not communicate, and not to prohibite the distribution of the Supper to those that be willing, be they moe, or be they fewer, so that there be a competent number, that it may be a Communion.

T. C.

M. Beza against VVestphalus, sheweth that it is not decent, that baptisme be ministred but in the Church, and that at standing houres, and by the ministers, and further, that vpō no ne∣cessitie (as it is called) it ought to be ministred in priuate houses. And that if it might be mi∣nistred in priuate houses, yet not otherwise than by Ministers.

Io. Whitgifte.

You vntruely report M. Beza his wordes: he onely sheweth in that place what the order of the Church is, where he remaineth, he doth not prescribe any certaine rule for all Churches, neyther is it méete that he shoulde, in such cases. He so spea∣keth of baptizing in priuate houses, that he doth not simplie condemne it. But what soeuer his iudgement is in that poynt, his mynd is not (I am sure) to bynde all other Churches to the same, which thinke and teach as soundly of this Sacrament, as he doth, or can do, though they agrée not with him in all circumstances.

T. C.

M. Caluin in his Institutions. 4. booke chapter. 15. sect. 20. 21. proueth that baptisme ought not to be ministred by priuate men, or by any women.

Io. Whitgifte.

Only ministers of the Church are y^e ordinarie ministers of baptisme, neither may any other chalenge that function vnto thēselues ordinarily, but yet if vpon occasion

a priuate person do baptise, the baptisme is good and lawfull, euen as the circum∣cision was true circumcision that was ministred by Sephora. As I haue proued. Tract. 9. cap. 5.

T. C.

•• The iudgement of those late writers touching ceremonies and apparell, whose secrete Epistles M. Doctor alledgeth, appeareth by these places following, cited out of their works printed, and published by themselues. Wher∣of also some are alledged by the answerer to the examiner, where are diuers other places to this purpose, wherevnto I referre the Reader.

M. Bucer vpon the. 18. of Mathewe, saith, that they say nothing which do alwayes obiect, that greater things must be vrged, than the reformation of ceremonies, thereby defending the reliques of Antichrist, for as much as ceremonies are testimonies of Religion: And that as there is no agreement betweene Christe and Belial, so those whiche are sincere Christians, can abide nothing of Antichrist.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Bucer sayth truely: for the reformation of ceremonies is to be sought and not to be neglected, neyther can sincere Christians abyde any thing of Antichriste, as it is Antichristes: but what is all this to the purpose? is there no reformation of cere∣monies in this Church of Englande, from the whiche all Antichristian ceremonies are abandoned, and those that remaine purged from al opinion of Antichristianitie? And that M. Bucer ment nothing lesse than the ceremonies nowe reteined in this Church of Englande (as we vse them) it maye euidently appeare by that whiche I haue alledged out of him. Tract. 7. cap. 5. the. 5. diuision. and chap. 7. diuision. 4.

T. C.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 10. chap. of the second boke of the Kings saith, that the Lutherans must take heede, least whilest they cutte off many Popishe errors, they followe Iehu by re∣teining also many Popish things. For they defende still the reall presence in the bread of the Supper, and Images, and Vestiments. &c. and saith that religion must be wholly reformed to the quick.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Martyr nameth the Popishe things which the Lutherans obserue, to be the reall presence, images, all the Popish apparell which they vsed in their Masse, (for so doth he meane) which this Church hath refused. What his opinion is of this appa∣rell, that we reteine, I haue declared tract. 7. chap. 5. the. 4. diuision. where he of purpose speaketh concerning the same. God be thanked, Religion is wholly reformed, euen to the quicke in this Churche.

T. C.

Bullinger in his Decades. 5. Booke, and ninth Sermon saythe, that our Sauiour Christe and the Apostles vsed their accustomed apparell in the Supper, and that although in tymes paste the Ministers put on a kynde of cloake vpon their common apparell, yet that was done neyther by the example of Chryste, nor of his Apostles, but by the tradition of man, and that in the ende, after the example of the Priestes apparell in the olde lawe, it was caste vpon the Ministers at the ministration of the Supper. But (sayth hee) we haue lear∣ned long agoe not onely that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated, but also that they ought to be brought agayne into the Churche of no man. And therfore seeing we are in the light of the Gospell, and not vnder the shadowe of the lawe, we do worthily reiecte, that Massing Leuiticall apparell.

Io. Whitgifte.

Neyther do we reteine the massing Leuiticall apparell, but that apparell onely which Bullinger himselfe alloweth of in diuers Epistles written of purpose, tou∣ching these matters, as I haue expressed, Tract. 7. Chapter. 5. the. 6. Diuision. &c.

T. C.

Gualter vpon the. 21. of the Actes among others, bringeth this for one reason, to improue Paules shauing of his head, for that the Gospel had beene preached twentie yeares: and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to haue bene borne with. And after he saith, that that teacheth howe muche the superstitious Maisters of ceremonies hurte the Gospell, which nourishe the weaknesse of fayth by the long keping of ceremonies, and by their long bearing, hinder the doings of those ministers, which are more feruent.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Gualter in these wordes sayth nothing against any poynt of this Churche: he speaketh truely and nothing to your purpose. M. Gualter hath sufficiently shewed his opinion in these matters, not onely in written Epistles, but in printed bookes, as in his Epistle before his commentaries vpō the first to the Corinthians.

Surely, there is no suche weight in these authorities for your purpose, that you can take any great aduauntage of them: indéede your cause in my opinion hath won small credite by alledging of them.

Notes

• (*) 1.1

  Lorde howe lowe would you throwe him downe.
• s 1.2

  Luc. 9. 60. 61. Luc. 12. 14. Rom. 12. 7. 1. Tim. 6. 11 2. Tim. 2. 3. 4. Bishops pri sōs popishe, Eugenius the firste bringer of them in.
• * 1.3

  9. Lu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.4

  Argument of the Anabap∣tistes confu∣ted.
• * 1.5

  12. Luke.
• * 1.6

  4. Lib. In∣scit. 11. cap.
• * 1.7

  Ciuill offices in our mini∣sters tende to y^e gouernment of the church.
• * 1.8

  Wherein the Bishops au∣thoritie con∣sisteth.
• * 1.9

  The Bishop gouerneth aswell by dis∣cipline as by preaching.
• * 1.10

  12. Rom.
• * 1.11

  I〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 is certen that diuers of these gifts mentioned Rom. 12. (as tea∣ching and exhor ting) maye con∣cu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉re in one mā, so that he maye be apt for diuers functions: ney∣ther dothe the Apostle there tye one man to one gifte or fun∣ction onely.
• * 1.12

  Ciuill autho∣ritie not clay∣med, but com∣mi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ted to our Bishops.
• * 1.13

  A place allea∣ged to no pur∣pose.
• * 1.14

  Expos〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ion of 2. Tim. 2. 3. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.15

  Caluine
• * 1.16

  〈◊〉〈◊〉
• * 1.17

  Some ciuill offices rather helpes than hinderances to the 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 a Bishop.
• * 1.18

  2. Epist. 2.
• * 1.19

  9. Epist. 1. lib. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.20

  1. Tim. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.21

  1. Thes. 5.
• * 1.22

  Col. 3.
• * 1.23

  1. Tim. 5.
• * 1.24

  Spirituall go uernment ta∣keth not away ciuill Magi∣stracie.
• * 1.25

  1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.26

  The gouern∣ment of the Church is not only spiritual
• * 1.27

  T. C. content to passe 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y the ab〈1 line〉〈1 line〉dging of ciuill autho∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.28

  Fonde argu∣ments, and to no purpose.
• * 1.29

  Act. 6.
• * 1.30

  Why the Apo stles left of the Deacon∣ship. Caluine.
• * 1.31

  The ciuill iu∣risdiction that the Pope 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ay meth, not lyke to that in vse in this church
• * 1.32

  T. C. muste 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ther di〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sent from Beza, or graunt the controuersie. Tract. 17. cap. diuis.
• * 1.33

  Esra. 9.
• (*) 1.34

  This place maketh agaynst your selfe.
• * 1.35

  Deut. 19.
• * 1.36

  A greater in∣risdiction sou∣ght in dispro∣uing the lesse.
• * 1.37

  Deut. 19.
• * 1.38

  The Replyer ouerthroweth his owne cause.
• * 1.39

  Not Hercu∣les himselfe against tvvo
• * 1.40

  Tract. 17. cap. vit.
• * 1.41

  Tom. 1. can. 3.
• * 1.42

  Con. Calced. can. 3.
• * 1.43

  Bucer.
• * 1.44

  Lib. 4. cap. 11.
• * 1.45

  It is not so lawfull for the Prince to preach, &c. as for a minister to vse corpo∣rall punish∣ment.
• * 1.46

  1. Sam. 15.
• * 1.47

  1. Sam. 3.
• * 1.48

  Excommuni∣cation not the only punish∣ment vsed in the Church. Gualter.
• * 1.49

  The Repli∣ers argument siniteth as well at the 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 magistrate as at the Ec∣clesiasticall.
• * 1.50

  God vseth corporall pu∣nishment as a meanes to saluation.
• * 1.51

  The cluill iurisdiction now vsed is in some respect ecclesiasticall.
• * 1.52

  Samuell priest & iudge.
• * 1.53

  It is doubt∣full whether Moses were priest.
• * 1.54

  Ciuill and ec∣clesiasticall of∣fices mette in one.
• * 1.55

  T. C. confes∣seth the groūd of all these cō∣trouersies.
• * 1.56

  The state of y^e controuerūe altered by the Replier.
• * 1.57

  Tom. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Nic〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 1〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.58

  The iur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣tion of Timo∣thie in some respect ciuill.
• * 1.59

  1. Cor. 12.
• * 1.60

  Ministers may vse tem∣porall punish∣ment.
• * 1.61

  Peters puni∣shing of Ana∣nias was by ciuill iurisdic∣tion▪ Beza de Hae∣ret. à Magist. puniendis.
• * 1.62

  Ecclesiastical: and ciuill iu∣risdiction con∣founded in Moses.
• * 1.63

  Augustine heareth ciuill causes.
• * 1.64

  Augustine iudge in worl∣dely matters.
• * 1.65

  Aug. lib. de o∣pere Monac.
• * 1.66

  Augustine thinketh that the how ghost hath bounde Bishops to ciuill causes.
• * 1.67

  Ang. epi. 110.
• * 1.68

  The Bishop of Sarū in the defense of the Apol. in the. 5. parte. 4. chap. 2. sect.
• (*) 1.69

  But you shall not fynde him contrary to him selfe, as you sur∣myse.
• * 1.70

  M. Iewell speaketh not againste ciuill o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ces in mi∣nisters simply but allowed them by his owne practise
• (*) 1.71

  Wherefare you not asha med of vutruthi
• * 1.72

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.73

  The scriptu∣res teach that ecclesiasticall persons maye haue ciuill iu∣risdiction.
• * 1.74

  Gen. 14. Nume. 27. Deut. 17. 1. Sam.
• * 1.75

  The practise of the churche concerning ci∣uill offices in ministers.
• * 1.76

  Bishops gaue sentence in ciuil causes Cent. 4. cap. 7. Sozom. li. 1. cap. 9.
• * 1.77

  Appeale graū ted from ciuill magistrates to Bishops.
• * 1.78

  Niceph. lib. 7. cap. 9.
• * 1.79

  Soz. li. 6. c. 32. Epiphanius busied with ciuill canses.
• * 1.80

  Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 32.
• * 1.81

  Dorotheus. Duaren. lib. 1.
• * 1.82

  Some ciuill iurisdiction giuen to Bi∣shops is agre∣able to reason
• * 1.83

  The conclu∣sion of this matter.
• * 1.84

  Bishops bounde by the holie ghost to ciuill troubles
• (a) 1.85

  Phi. 21. 2. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• (b) 1.86

  Iud. 12.
• (c) 1.87

  Mat. 23. 27.
• * 1.88

  Couetous patrones.
• * 1.89

  2. Tim. 2. 7. 2. Cor. 4. 4.
• (f) 1.90

  Math. 13. 15.
• * 1.91

  Foure sortes of aduersa∣ries to the Church.
• * 1.92

  Doctrine. The right gouern∣ment of the Churche cannot be separated from the doctrine. 1. Tim. 3. 2.
• k 1.93

  1. Pet. 3. 17
• l 1.94

  2. Pet. 3. 15.
• * 1.95

  Of subscri∣bing to the Articles.
• * 1.96

  The argumēt of the aduer∣sary retorted agaynst him∣selfe.
• * 1.97

  Persecution pretended wher none is.
• * 1.98

  Can is not taken for ought, if it be spoken simply
• * 1.99

  Schismatiks deserue to be sharply re∣proued.
• * 1.100

  The reuen∣ging eye.
• * 1.101

  The Replye〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 requireth that of others which he him selfe woulde not performe.
• * 1.102

  Conference by writing hath bin often offered to the Replier.
• * 1.103

  They whiche wil pul down the olde, and place a newe platforme, oughte to be v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rie circum∣specte.
• * 1.104

  〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉.
• * 1.105

  Doctors and Bachelers of diuin〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ie mis∣lyked.
• * 1.106

  The cause why the Re∣plier ioyneth agaynst de∣grees in di∣umitie.
• * 1.107

  King Ed∣wards priests left out.
• * 1.108

  A scoffe.
• * 1.109

  A correction of a place.
• * 1.110

  Albe left out.
• * 1.111

  Alteration of words.
• * 1.112

  A protestation by the way.
• * 1.113

  They allowe godfathers & godmothers at the last.
• * 1.114

  Why Doc∣tors of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 be left out.
• * 1.115

  Tayle of An∣tichrist.
• * 1.116

  Correction of a sodeyne.
• (*) 1.117

  This is anec∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m, and contra∣rie to that which 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ou haue pa. 158. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 15. &c.
• * 1.118

  The Replier falleth into contrarietie whiles he see∣keth to cleare the Admoni∣tion of it.
• * 1.119

  Pag. 158. Lin. 15. &c.
• * 1.120

  Iobn. 5.
• * 1.121

  2. Tim. 3. Tract. 13.
• * 1.122

  Correction with exceptiō.
• (*) 1.123

  In what Chapter▪
• * 1.124

  Imposition of handes in con∣firmation al∣lowed by Caluin.
• (*) 1.125

  He re you make M. Caluine contrarie to him selfe, but vn∣truly.
• * 1.126

  The common refuge of the Replier is to discredite the Authour.
• * 1.127

  Caluin vn∣truely char∣ged with con∣trariety by the Replyer.
• * 1.128

  Caluin inst. cap. 9 sect. 4.
• * 1.129

  A kind of con∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 de∣scribed by Caluin, not disagreeing from ours.
• * 1.130

  The abuse of confirmation in the popish Church.
• * 1.131

  The Repl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 viech that a∣gainst our confirmation which is 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the Pa∣pistes. Confess. Hel∣uet. cap. 19.
• * 1.132

  Bishops doo not vse the ci∣uiil sworde as the pope doth.
• * 1.133

  Differēce be∣twixt the ciuil iurisdiction of the Pope, & of our Bishops.
• * 1.134

  Anabaptisme after a sort 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣fended.
• * 1.135

  The whole externall go∣uernment of the churche is not spirituall.
• * 1.136

  The ciuil ma∣gistrate exclu∣ded from go∣uernment of y^e church.
• * 1.137

  Subtil sp〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ch of y^e Replier. Gouernour in the church, not of the church.
• * 1.138

  Tract. 4. Cap. 2. the. 4. Di∣uis.
• * 1.139

  Great mat∣ters pretēded not yet vtte∣red.
• * 1.140

  Christian li∣bertie what it is.
• * 1.141

  Inuectiue Sermons.
• * 1.142

  Unfrutefull sermons.
• * 1.143

  Fol. 3. Apocrypha▪
• * 1.144

  Correction.
• * 1.145

  Fol. 4.
• * 1.146

  Baptizing by women not collected out of the booke.
• * 1.147

  Toyes about mariage.
• * 1.148

  Fol. 5.
• * 1.149

  Confirmation of children al∣lowed at the last.
• * 1.150

  The ende of confirmation.
• * 1.151

  Fol. 6.
• * 1.152

  Fol. 7.
• * 1.153

  Fol. 8.
• * 1.154

  Fol. 9.
• * 1.155

  Tayle of An∣tichrist what it is.
• * 1.156

  Scarce the face of a Church.
• * 1.157

  Vix▪ signifieth somtime non.
• * 1.158

  What y^• word (vix) impor∣teth.
• * 1.159

  Vix, in english commonly ta∣ken for (non).
• (*) 1.160

  A manifest 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 you leaue out this worde (whole.)
• * 1.161

  Godfathers and Godmo∣thers once disallowed & after recāted.
• (*) 1.162

  Why haue you not done so your selfe 〈◊〉〈◊〉 your Replie▪
• * 1.163

  Politike Ma cheuils.
• (*) 1.164

  This is a clake, but their words will not heare it.
• * 1.165

  Slaunder 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Churche of Englande.
• * 1.166

  Supremacie of the Quene secretly de∣nied.
• * 1.167

  Contrarietie in these men.
• * 1.168

  Degrees in the Uniuer∣sities cōdem∣ned.
• * 1.169

  Pag. 173. sec. 1.
• * 1.170

  A newe plat forme.
• * 1.171

  One minister not to meddle in another mans charge.
• * 1.172

  Repetition of prayer is not euill.
• * 1.173

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 inter∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉reted. Beza.
• * 1.174

  Erasmus.
• * 1.175

  Caluine.
• * 1.176

  Nou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 gl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ssa.
• * 1.177

  Batt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s a ba〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉.
• * 1.178

  Martyr in 1. Sam. 1. Babling in prayer what it is.
• * 1.179

  Long o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yer 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r repetitions net 〈◊〉〈◊〉, but babli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of worde〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 our fayt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Math. 26.
• * 1.180

  Luke. 18.
• * 1.181

  Math. 6.
• * 1.182

  Christe vseth repetition of y^e same prayer. Math. 26. vers. 44.
• * 1.183

  Libelling is no true way of reforming.
• (*) 1.184

  Forsoo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 you make 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 wicked com∣parison.
• (a) 1.185

  A manifest vntruth.
• * 1.186

  Iohn setteth his name to the Apocalips both in the be∣ginning & end.
• * 1.187

  A libell what it is.
• * 1.188

  The libellers fitly compa∣red to the Pharisies.
• * 1.189

  Description of a Pharisie.
• * 1.190

  Fost〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rus in di∣ctionar. he∣braico.
• * 1.191

  Lib. 1 cap. 2. de bello iudaico. Lib. antiquit. Tom. 2. lib. 18. cap. 2. Tom. 2. lib. 17. cap. 3.
• * 1.192

  Ierome ad Marcell▪
• * 1.193

  Bretheren may be puni∣shed.
• * 1.194

  Ballets.
• * 1.195

  Godlinesse bre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉keth no lawe.
• * 1.196

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 uncient fa∣thers contem∣ned o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ned men.
• * 1.197

  Augustine re∣cor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed vpon the abu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tsary.