The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

A vievve of the seconde Admonition.

Or that it is euill so ofte to repeate, Glory be to the father. &c. Lorde haue mercy vpon* 1.1 vs. &c. Or the Lords prayer: for the text whiche they alleage for the same, Math. 6. is wickedly wrested, and corruptly alleaged: for the wordes of Christ be not (as they translate them) when you pray▪ vse not vayne repetitions, but vvhen you pray, vse not muche babling: whereby not the ofte repetition of good prayers, but vayne babling in pray∣ers, that is, many wordes without fayth, and the inwarde affec∣tion of the mynde, is forbidden. Paule. 1. Thes. 5. sayth, Pray conti∣nually, And Christ Matth. 6. sayth, Pray on this maner, Our father, &c. So that of necessitie we must oftentimes repeate the Lords prayer, if we wyll beleeue Christ and his Apostle Paule. But Lorde what straunge doctrine is this, to call Glory be to the father. &c. Lorde haue mer∣cy vpon vs. &c. Our father. &c. Popishe? Surely these men (as I suppose) be not well in their wits.

T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 3.

For the repetition of Gloria patri. &c. I haue spoken sufficiently before: but what spirite is it that calleth this translation of the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 (vse not vayne repetitions) a wycked wresting of S. Mathewes place in his sixt chapter? what rasor is this that cueteth so sharpe? Knoweth he agaynst whome, and agaynst the excellent learning, and singular pietie of howe many

he 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eaketh? For this is the translation of those learned and godly men, which translated the Byble. which is commonly called the Geneua Byble: and is this a wicked wresting? Admitte it were not translated exactly, to the worde of the Euangelist: is it therefore a wresting, and a wicked wre∣sting? 〈◊〉〈◊〉 hat (I will not say wicked) but false conclusion or doctrine can be grounded of this tr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n∣slation? And they that translate it thus, haue not onely the authoritie of the Lexicons to confirme their translation, w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ch shewe that this worde was taken vp in reproche of a foolishe Poet called Battus, which vsed to repeate one thing many times: but they haue also the circumstance of the place to warrant it. For the reason which our 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉auiour Christ vseth to draw men from this faul〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, leadeth to this translation, and can not stande with that sense which M. Doctor setteth downe. For howe hang these togither: you shall not bable many words without fayth. &c. bicause your heauenly father knoweth what you haue neede of before you aske? It is vnlike first, that our saui∣our Christ would speake thus (bable not many wordes without 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ayth. &c.) when as rather he would haue forbidden them to speake any one worde without fayth. &c. For if he shoulde speake thus, he should seeme to haue allowed a prayer without fayth, so that it were not conceyued in ma∣ny words. And agayne, if (as M. Doctor sayth) this had beene the proposition, which our sauiour Christ diswaded from, that they should not bable many words without fayth. &c. he woulde neuer h〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ue added this reason (for your heauēly father knoweth. &c.) for neyther is he father vnto any such. And he would rather haue sayde as S. James in the first chap. sayth, that they shoulde be sure to receyue nothing, bicause they aske not in fayth. Nowe as this reason can not stande with M. Doc∣tors interpretation: so doth it well ag〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ee with the translation of the Geneua Byble. For what could be more fitly sayde to driue the disciples from this vayne repetition, than to say that the hea∣uenly father knoweth. &c. and that it is not with the Lorde as it is with men, that muste haue a thing oftentimes spoken, or euer they can vnderstande it? Furthermore what a reason is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉his: we must repeate y^e Lords prayer oftentimes, therfore we must repeate it oftentimes in hal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e an houre, and one in the necke of an other? And if S. Paules place to the Thes. (pray continually) bee refer∣red vnto the saying of the Lords prayer (as M. Doctor woulde beare vs in hande) then it is not lawfull for vs to vse any other words, than those which our sauiour Christ vsed. But I could ne∣uer yet learne that those words binde vs of necessit〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e any more vnto the repe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tion of the Lordes prayer worde for worde, than vnto the repetition of any other godly prayer in the scripture. And I would be lothe to saye that it were simply necessarie, to vse that iust number of wordes, and ney∣ther more nor lesse any time, muche lesse oftentimes in so smal a space. For our sauiour Christ doth not there giue a pre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cript forme of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rayer whervnto he vindeth vs: but giueth vs a rule, and squire to frame all our prayers by, as I haue before declared. I know it is necessarie to pray, and to pray often. I kn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉we 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lso that in so fewe words it is impossible for any man to frame so pithy a prayer: And I confesse that the Church doth well in concluding their prayers with the Lords prayer: but I stand vpon this, that there is no necessitie layde vpon vs to vse these very words, and no more, and especially that the place of S. P〈1 line〉〈1 line〉le to the Thessalomans, dothe least of all proue it. As for M. Doctors outcries he hath so often worne our eares with them, and that without cause, that I thinke by this tunc no man regardeth them.

Io. Whitgifte.

I doe not say that so to translate the place is a wicked wresting or corrupte allea∣ging of it: but this I say, that that place is wicke〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ly wrested, and corruptly alleaged* 1.2 by the Adm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nition, to improue the oft rep〈1 line〉〈1 line〉titien of the Lords prayer. Neyther doe I thinke that translation to be so apt, as the other is. M. Beza in his notes vpon this place of S. Mat. sayth thus: Ne sit is loquaces 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, be not full of wordes. Vulg. Nolite multum loqui, doe not bable muche. Erasmus. Ne 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉itis multiloqui, id est, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 quo id〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m declaratur. Longae tamen preces hîc non damnātur, sed quae vanae sunt, inanes & su∣per〈1 line〉〈1 line〉titiosae. Longa enim non est oratio in qua nihil redundat: centra vero breuis esse non potest, quae non proficiscitur ex 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nimo pio & fideli: Be not bablers or full of words, that is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 wherby the same thing is signified: yet are not long prayers heere condemned, but those that are vayne, fond, & superstitious. For it is not a long prayer, wherin nothing is to much: on the other side it can not be short which proceedeth not out of a godly & faithfull mind.

And that this is the true interpretation of this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 it appeareth* 1.3 by that which followeth in the same place, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 for they thinke to be heard for their muche babling. Upon the whiche words Erasmus giueth this note: Hîc non est 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 sed proprio vsus est verbo 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, veluti exponens quid dixerit 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: Heere is not the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, but he vseth the proper worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as it were expounding, what he mente by 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. You sée therfore that the one word expeūdeth the other, which is the surest way of interpreting. M. Caluine vpō the same place sayth thus: Porro eorū stultitiā reprehen∣dit* 1.4 Chris〈1 line〉〈1 line〉us, qui vt Deū persuadea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t & exorent, multum verborum profundunt. Furthermore Christ reprehendeth their folly which do spende many words, that they may persuade and* 1.5 entreate God. And noua glossa ordinaria dothe interprete the worde in lyke maner.

Ferunt Bat tum quendam fuisse in〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ptum Poetā, qui multis & vanis ad nauseam vs{que} repetitis verbis* 1.6 poemata sua conscripserit, ad hoc vnum int〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ntus vt multus esset in verbis: vnde sumptum sit verbum Battologizare, pro inaniter esse multiloquum. It is reported that there was a certayne fooly she Poete called Battus, which wrote his verses with many and vayne repeting of wordes, euen vnto the lothing of any man, being only bent vnto this one thing, that he might haue many wordes: of whom this worde Battologizare was taken, for him that is full of vayne wordes. By al which authorities & interpretations of these learned mē, Christ doth not speake against the oft repetition of the Lords prayer or any other godly prayers, but against vaine babling in praiers, & multiplying of wordes without faith, whether it be by oft repeating or multiplying of them. And therfore also saith M. Martyr, Quare at〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ēdendum* 1.7 est multiloquium tum adhiberi non cum diu precamur, sed cum citra fidem & spiritum verbamulti∣plicamus: wherfore it is to be marked, that then is there much babling, not whē we pray long, but when we multiply wordes without faith and spirite. Neither is there any wryter that doth otherwise interprete this place, not euen those that translate it vayne repetitions.

And the reasons wherby you would ouerthrow this sense be words only & not rea∣sons:* 1.8 for who can thinke y^t Christ doth here condēne long prayers or many wordes, or the repetition of godly praiers (himselfe continuing in prayers a whole night in the mountaine, & oftentimes repeating one & the same prayer, not long before he suffered his passion Math. 26 and willing vs to pray continually, & not to be weary?) But that only he forbiddeth many words without faith, whether it be as I said by multiplying or by repeating: but what should we dally where the wordes of Christ be playne〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 for he saith, Verum orantes ne sitis multiloqui ficut Ethneci: Putant enim fore vt ob multiloquiū suum* 1.9 exaudiantur, Ne igitur efficiamini similes 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉storum, nouit enim pater vester. &c. But when ye pray vse not much babling as the Heathen do, for they thinke that they are heard for their much babling: be ye not therfore like vnto thē: for your father knoweth wherof you haue neede* 1.10 before you aske of him. The wordes be manifest, all interpreters agrée vpon t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ē: and therfore this your dallying is but a prophanation of them.

If we repeate the Lordes prayer twenty times in halfe an houre, so it be done in* 1.11 faith & zeale, it is not this multilo quium or vayne repetitions that Chris〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e speaketh of in this place. Christ himself as I haue said before, repeated thrice one prayer in the same wordes as it is euident Math. 26. which he would not ha〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e do〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e if y^e faithful & zealous repetition of prayers, had bin this much babling or vayne repetitiōs, wher of he spea∣keth in this. 6. of Math. I do not say that the place of S. Paule. 1. Thes. 5. is to be vn∣derstanded only of the Lordes prayer, but this is my saying, that for asmuch as we are cōmaunded to praye continually by S. Paule in that place, & th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Lord hath sayd when ye praye, pray on this manner, Our father which art in heauen. &c. Therfore the oft repe∣tition of this prayer being in faith & zeale, can not bée accounted vayne repetition or much babling. I know it is lawfull to vse other godly prayers, besides it, neither haue you euer heard me vtter one worde to the contrary: I know likewise that it is not on∣ly a prayer to be vsed, but also a rule to be followed in framing all our other prayers by, whatsoeuer. And yet a prayer it is, and a necessary prayer to be vsed, as the very wordes of Christ do declare.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Repetition of prayer is not euill.
• * 1.2

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 inter∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉reted. Beza.
• * 1.3

  Erasmus.
• * 1.4

  Caluine.
• * 1.5

  Nou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 gl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ssa.
• * 1.6

  Batt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s a ba〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉.
• * 1.7

  Martyr in 1. Sam. 1. Babling in prayer what it is.
• * 1.8

  Long o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yer 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r repetitions net 〈◊〉〈◊〉, but babli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of worde〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 our fayt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Math. 26.
• * 1.9

  Luke. 18.
• * 1.10

  Math. 6.
• * 1.11

  Christe vseth repetition of y^e same prayer. Math. 26. vers. 44.