The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

¶ Articles collected out of the former Admonition, and vntruly sayd (of the fautors of that Admonition) to be falsified.

To the end of the second Admonition there is ioyned A reprofe of cer∣taine Articles, collected (as it is thought) by the Bishops, (for so they say) out of a litle booke entituled, An Admonition to the Parliament. &c. But as I thinke, it may rather be termed, a recantation, or (if you will) a reformatiō or mitigatiō of certen articles in that first admonition rashly setdowne, & without learning or discretion printed.

1. Fol. 3. lib. 1. pag. 2. First they hold & affirme that we in England are not yet* 1.1 come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde. Here you finde fault that this worde scarce is left out. Indeede this word scarce was writ∣ten in the margent of diuers copies of the first Admonition: whether it were so in all, or no, I know not: no more do I whether any such collectiō (as you pretend) was made. But what neede you so muche sticke in wordes, when the thing is manifest? for in effect they denie as much as that proposition importeth: they wholy condēne the my∣nisterie, the ceremonies, & the gouernment of this church. They say the sacraments be full of corruptions: & in theyr second Admonition Fol 42. they say that the sacraments are wickedly māgled & prophaned: they vt∣terly condēne our order & māner of common prayer: yea in effect our doctrine also, for in their secōd Admonitiō, Fol. 7 they say, that although some truth be taught by some preachers, yet no preacher may without daūger of the lawes,

vtter all truth comprised in the booke of God. What can be spoken more slen∣derly of the doctrine preached in this church? A mā may truly speake as much of the Romishe churche: for some truthe is taught by some Papists: yea some truth is taught by some Iewe & Turke. When therfore you say, that in this church neither the worde is truly prea∣ched, nor the sacramēts sincerely ministred, nor yet Ecclesiasticall dis∣cipline (which thre in the first Admonition Fol. 3. is sayde to be the out∣warde markes, whereby a true Christian church is knowne) and also condemne our mynisterie as Popish and vnlawfull, with the whole gouernment of* 1.2 our Church (as you do in playne termes) may it not be truely sayde, that you affirme vs in England as yet not to be come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde? Furthermore what doth this word scarce helpe the matter, doth it not importe as much? it is a rule in Philo∣sophie, Quod vix fit non fit, that vvhich is scarce done is not done.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 3. 4. 5.

As for Answere to the Articles collected out of the Admonition, it is made in the Replie vnto M. Doctors booke, where I haue shewed how the Admonition is misconstrued and taken other∣wise, than eytherit meameth or speaketh, wherevnto I will referre the Reader.

And albeit I haue shewed how vntrue it is, that the Admonition, affirmeth that there is no church in England, yet I can not passe by the secrete Philosophie, whereby M. Doctor woulde proue, that the Authors of the Admonition affirme it. For sayth he by y^e rule of Philosophie. Quod vix fit, non fit, that which is scarse done is not done. I say this is secrete, for it was neuer taught, neyther in Academia, nor in stoa, nor Lyceo, I haue redde Quod fere fit, non fit, that which is al∣most done is not done. But I neuer remember any such rule as M. Doctor speaketh of.

And besides that in our tongue, those things which are sayd to be scarce, are notwithstanding oftentimes supposed to be. As when a man sayth that there is scarce a man aliue, &c. the scripture also vseth that phrase of speach, of things which are, as when it sayth, the iust man shall scarce be saued, it doth not meane, that iust men shall not be saued. The rest of that I haue answered.

Io. Whitgifte.

I proue by their owne manifest woordes, that they in déede affirme that we in England are not yet come to the outwarde face of a Church agreable to Gods worde, all whiche proofes you omit and let passe cauilling onely at this woorde (scarce,) which is a ma∣nifest* 1.3 argument of a wrangler. And yet is not this manner of speaking. Quod vix sit, non sit, so straunge Philosophie, as you would gladly haue it, for this woorde (vix) ey∣ther signifieth with violence, & great difficultie to do a thing: or else it is referred to the time: or else it signifieth (non) as in Ouide vix Priamus tanti, that is, non tanti Pria∣mus, as Donatus doth expoūd it. I thinke you will not haue it to be taken in the first significatiō, by the Authors of y^e Admonitiō, for then there is no sense in their wordes: if it be taken in either of the latter significations (as it must of necessitie be) then the Philosophie is not secrete▪ but open and knowne to euery yong Grammarian.

In our English phrase, it is commonly taken for non, as when we say a thing is* 1.4 scarce done, we signifie that is not yet done. Likewise when a man sayth that he is scarce well, he meaneth that he is not well. He hath scarce made an end of his sermon▪ y^t is, he hath not made an end of his sermon. It is scarce. ix. of y^e clocke, that is, it is not yet ix. of the clocke. Euen so we are scarce come to the outward forme of a church rightly refor∣med. &c. that is, we are not yet come. &c. Euery child y^t cā speake knoweth this to be so.

When the scripture saith, that a iust man shall scarce be saued: this woorde (vix) is taken in y^e first significatiō, that is, with great difficultie, & in this signification it is oftētimes taken in the scripture: but so can it not be in their manner of speach.

Ansvvere to certayne Articles. &c.

2. They will haue the mynisters to be called, allowed, and placed by the people. You say, that this Article is falsified: & yet their wordes in that place of their Admonition be these: Then election was made by the cōmon consent of the whole Churche. And a litle after: Then no mynister was placed in any congregation

without the consent of the people. Wherfore the collection is very true, and they belike ashamed of their doings: and therfore they haue corrected these assertiōs in their second edition of the first Admonition on this sorte: Then election was made by the elders, with the cōmon cōsent of the whole church. Surely these men be past shame, else woulde they not denie their owne written assertions.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6.

And whereas he sayth that it is al one, to say that the election of the mynister must be made by (*) 1.5 the church, & to say, It must be made by the people: it is a great ouersight to make the parte & whole all one, seing y^e people be but one part of the church, & the mynister and the other gouernours are, albeit not the greatest, yet the principallest part. I graunt that sometimes a parte is taken for the whole, and so we do call sometimes the gouernours of the churche, the churche, and sometimes the people: But where the question is of the proprietie of these speaches (the Church and the peo∣ple) there all men that haue any iudgement, can easily put a difference.

Io. Whitgifte.

What I haue sayde, how truly you haue reported my wordes, & how aptly you haue replied to my Answere, euen the very simple Reader may easily vnderstand: & therfore for answers to this, I shall only desire him to compare our wordes togither: and then it shall easily appeare how you haue falsified my wordes: for wheras I ga∣ther out of these wordes of y^e Admonition, Election was made by the common cōsent of the whole Church, therfore their collection is true which say, that they would haue the my∣nisters to be called, allowed, & placed by the people, you either of purpose, or by ouer∣sight (which is very vsuall with you) haue left out y^e worde (whole) & make as though I should say, that it is all one to say that the election must be made by the church, & to say, it must be made by the people: & should confound the people & the church, the part with the whole: which is a manifest vntruth. But by y^e way it is to be noted, y^t you séeme to separate the people frō the election of mynisters, for you will not haue the worde (Church) in the Admonition to cōprehend the people, else why haue you these words, when the question is of the proprietie of these speaches, (the church and the people)? and surely it may séeme that this is their meaning, bicause in their second edition they say the elec∣tion was made by the Elders, with the common consent of the people, so that, the election should be made by the Elders, and the people only should cōsent to the election: which is contrary to the rest of your assertion.

Ansvvere to certayne Articles. &c.

4. Lin. 9. They hold that a Bishop at no hande hath authoritie to ordeyne ministers. This Article you confesse to be truely gathered: but now you make this glosse (not alone) and yet in their Admonition it is in flat termes, that the ordering of mynisters doth at no hand apperteyne to Bishops.

6. Lin. 28. They will haue the mynisters at theyr owne pleasure to preach without lycence. This is true by your owne cōfessiō, for you will haue no other licēce, but your calling to the ministerie, which must be (as you say) by the congregation. Here you shut out both the Princes licence, and the Bishops.

7. Lin. 13. fol. 17. Lin. 6. pag. 1. Whatsoeuer is set down in this Article is manifestly affirmed in the Admonitiō, & your answere to it is fri∣uolous, and nothing to the purpose. For in the firste parte of the Ad∣monition▪ Fol. 2. pag. 1. These be the wordes: In those dayes knowne by voice, learning & doctrine: now they must be discerned frō other, by Popish & Antichristian ap∣parell, as cap, gowne, tippet, &c. And in the second part speaking of the appa∣rell prescribed to ministers, they say on this sort: There is no order in it but confusion: no comelinesse, but deformitie: no obediēce, but disobediēce both against God and the Prince. Are you not then ashamed to say, that this Article (They

will haue the mynister discerned from others by no kinde of apparell, and the apparell ap∣poynted they terme Antichristian, and the apparell appoynted by the Prince, disobedience agaynst the Prince) is falsified?

Fol. 4. Lin. 1. Pag. 2. They will haue all Archbishops, Bishops, Archdeacons, &c. together with their offices, iurisdictions, courtes, and liuings cleane taken away, and with speede remoued. You say that this is falsified in parte, bicause there is left out Lords grace, Iustice of peace, and Quorum, &c. Surely the Article is truly collected in euery poynt, and playnely affirmed in the. 2. leafe of the first parte of that Admonition. As for your gibing wordes that follow, they be but winde: I warrāt you the cōfutatiō will abide the light, & the Author will shew his face, which you are ashamed to do.

9. Lin. 9. The Article is truly collected: looke in the first parte of that Admonition, Fol. 2. Pag. 2. & Fol. 3. And in the second part of that Admonition. Fol. 1. pag. 2. Fol. 5. pag. 1.

17. Lin. 12. The collection is true: for their wordes be these: They simply as they receyued it from the Lorde, we sinfuily mixed with mans inuentions and de∣uises. And therfore you vntruly say, that it is falsified.

19. Lin. 16. They will haue no Godfathers nor Godmothers, you say that this Article is also vtterly falsified: what meane you so to forget your sslfe Is it not thus writtē in the first part of y^e first Admonitiō, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o. 3 pa. 2.* 1.6 And as for Baptisme it was enough with them if they had water, and the partie to be bapti∣sed, fayth, and the mynister to preache the worde, and mynister the Sacramentes. Nowe we must haue surplesse deuised by Pope Adrian, Interrogatories mynistred to the infant, Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus, &c? Howe say you? are not Godfathers and Godmothers here disallowed? wherefore be they else in this place recyted? or why are they here ascribed to Pope Hi∣ginus? will you now allow any thing in the Church inuented by the Pope? In deede in the second edition of this firste Admonition, these wordes, Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus, be cleane left out, as I haue before noted. Wherfore eyther you haue not redde the di∣uersitie of their editions, or else you are very impudent.

22. Fol 8. in fine. I maruell why you say, that this collection is fal∣sified? Looke Fol. vlt. pag 2. of the first part of the Admonition.

T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6.

The rest of those articles are answered in the discourse of the booke. Besides that, the fanlts which are found with the vntrue gathering of them, are not taken away by M. Doctor, but only in confident & bould asseuerations. And if I should say any thing, I should but repeat their wordes.

Io. Whitgifte.

The iudgement hereof must also be referred to the Reader, who may coniecture, that you haue litle to say, against any thing that I haue in this parte affirmed.

Out of the second treatise called A view of Po∣pishe abuses remayning.

Fol. 10. pag. 1 lin. 33. Reading of seruice or Homilies in the church is as euil as play∣ing on a stage, and worse too. You say that this is falsified. Lord God what meane you? In the seconde leafe of that booke these be their di∣rect wordes, Reading is not feeding, but it is as euill as playing vpon a stage, and worse too. To the same effect they speake diuers times, & so do the Authors of the second Admonition. Surely eyther they are ashamed of their doings, or else you haue not with diligence read their bookes.

Thus briefly to haue answered to your vniust accusation of falsly collecting certain articles out of the booke entituled. An Admonition. &c. shall be sufficient. Other articles which you say be gathered out of the same booke, and confesse to be true, I haue omitted, bicause they be sufficiently answered by me in the confutation: and your confir∣mation of them is vsuall and childishe.

I woulde wishe that suche as bee wyse men and in authoritie, would diligently consider that whiche you answere to the Article, Fol 14. (as you quote it) touching the gouernment of the Churche, and the authoritie of Princes and their lawes: and likewyse that whiche is written concerning the same matters in the seconde Ad∣monition: I will make them neyther better nor worse, but wishe the Magistrates, well to marke your iudgements and opinions in these matters, and to foresee the worst. The Lorde blesse this Realme of Englande with the continuance of his Gospell, long life of the Queenes maiestie, and peace bothe foreyne and dome∣sticall. Amen.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing answered.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Scarce the face of a Church.
• * 1.2

  Vix▪ signifieth somtime non.
• * 1.3

  What y^• word (vix) impor∣teth.
• * 1.4

  Vix, in english commonly ta∣ken for (non).
• (*) 1.5

  A manifest 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 you leaue out this worde (whole.)
• * 1.6

  Godfathers and Godmo∣thers once disallowed & after recāted.