The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

¶ The reasons which T. C. vseth agaynst ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons, examined.

Chap. 2. the first Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. Sect. 1.

Nowe that I haue shewed that the places quoted by the Admonition, are for the most parte to the purpose of that they be quoted for, I wil adde a reason or two to this purpose, before I come to answere to those reasons which are brought by M. Doctor. Here I must desire the Reader to re∣member (which I sayde before, when I spake agaynst non residencie) the multitude & difficultie of those things which are required of the minister of the word of God. And withal I wil leaue to the consideration of euery one, the great infirmitie and weaknesse which is in men, both the which con∣siderations set togither, it will easily appeare howe vnmeete a thing it is, that the minister shoulde haue any other charge layde vpon him, seeing that it beeing so weightie an office, as wyll require all the giftes he hath, be they neuer so great, it must needes fall out, that so muche as he dothe man other calling, so muche he leaueth vndone in this.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Reader may easily iudge howe fitly they were alleaged, in that they néeded your commentarie to teache the application of them, which otherwyse woulde haue asked some cunning to make them to serue the turne. But as the places be vnfitly quoted by them, so are they in déede as slenderly defended by you: as may appeare in your Replyes, and my Answeres.

Your first argumēt why ecclesiastical persons may not exercise ciuil offices is this: The multitude and difficultie of those things whych are required of the minister, are suche, and the weaknesse and infirmitie of man so great, that the minister can not execute any other offyces. &c. This had some likelyhoode in it, if the minister should execute any office contrarie or repugnant to his ecclesiasticall function. But séeing I haue before declared that such ciuill offices as be nowe committed to Bishops, and other of the Cleargie, be neces∣sarie helpes to their other callings, and moste profitable for the good and quiet go∣uernment of the Churche, this argument of it selfe falleth to the grounde. But why may you not as well reason thus? the multitude and greatnesse of those things that are required of a Christian, be suche, and the infirmitie and frayltie of man so great, that if he did nothing but giue him selfe to spirituall meditation, and neuer meddle with worldly affayres, he were not able to doe his full duetie: therefore no Chri∣stian man may practise any suche thing, or meddle in worldly and ciuill matters. This argument is the roote of Anabaptisme.

Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. in the midst.

And what the hande of man is able to reache heerein, it is to be considered in the Apostles, whome if the office of the ministerie dyd so wholly occupie and set a worke, that they could admitte no other charge with it, yea and were fayne to cast of that whych they had, it is cleare that none of those which lyue nowe can beside that function, admit any other publike calling. The story is knowne in the Acts, that the Apostles euen during the tune that they kept togither at Ierusalem,* 1.1 and taught the Churche there, were fayne, that they might the better attende vnto preaching and praying (by which two thyngs S. Luke summarily setteth foorth the office of the ministerie) to giue ouer the charge of prouiding for the poore vnto others, bycause they were not able to do both. Now for so much as the Apostles endued with suche giftes as none haue beene since, or shall be hereafter, could not discharge togither with the office of the minister that also of the Deacon, howe shoulde any man be founde, that togither with that office, can discharge the office of a ciuill Magi∣strate? And if the Apostles would not haue the office of a Deacon, whiche was ecclesiasticall, and therefore of the same kynde with the ministerie ioyned vnto it, howe muche lesse wyll they suffer that the ministerie should be ioyned with a ciuill offyce, and therefore of an other kynde? For rea∣son teacheth that there is an easier mingling of those whych are of one kynde, than of those whiche are of dyuers kyndes.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is euident that the Apostles, from the ascention of Christ into heauen vntill* 1.2 this time, did execute both the office of the Apostles, and the office of Deacons also. Wherby it is manyfest that these offices may at sometimes méete togither in one, and the selfe same person. And M. Caluine vpon the. 6. of the Actes sayth: That they dyd not altogither caste off this care for the poore, sed leuationem quaesijsse vt suo muneri in∣tenti esse possent, but that they sought an easing thereof, that they might be intentiue vnto their offyce. The causes therfore that moued the Apostles to leaue off from executing the one, that is, the Deaconship, is to be considered. One cause was, the great encrease of the number of Christians, whiche was nowe growne to suche a multitude, that the Apostles coulde not well both make prouision for the poore, and gyue them selues also bothe to preaching and praying.

An other cause was the murmuring and grudging of the Gretians, who thought that the Apostles had more regarde to prouide for their owne countrey men the Iewes, than for the Erecians béeing straungers vnto them. Wherefore the Apo∣stles béeing willing to eschewe this grudging and repyning, dyd for auoyding the suspition of partialitie, will the whole multitude to choose them Deacons: and both those causes be expressed in the beginning of the. 6. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hapter of the Acts.

The thirde cause was, for that the Apostles knewe, that they shoulde shortly be dispersed, and that their office was to goe from place to place, to plant Churches, and preache the Gospell, so that they coulde not nowe execute the office of Deacons, as they dyd whilest they remayned togither.

This beeing so (as it can not be denied) there can be no likely argument gathered of this place, that ecclesiasticall persons may not haue some kinde of ciuill functions. And if a man well consider howe busie and troublesome an office the Deaconship was at that tyme (the Churche béeing in persecution, and the number of poore great) he shall easily perceyue, that there is no comparison betwixt the troublesomnesse of that office then, and the ciuill offices nowe committed to ecclesiastical persons, which be so farre from hindering their ecclesiasticall functions, that they worke the cleane contrarie effect. And yet it is certayne, that the Apostle S. Paule, and Titus, with Luke, or as some thinke, Barnabas, did togither with the office of preaching, make collections for the poore. 2. Corinth. 8.

Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 167. somvvhat tovvards the ende.

Agayne, how can we iustly reproue the Papistes for the vse of bothe the swords, spirituall an〈1 line〉〈1 line〉

materiall, when as we are founde in the same faulte our selues? And surely howsoeuer long cu∣stome hath caused it to seeme, yet in deede it is a very great and vntollerable confusion, which may be the easelyer vnderstanded, if so be we set before our eyes, how vncomely and disordered it is, in the like, or rather in the very same case. For let vs imaginethe Ma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or or Bayliue of a towne, or the King or Emperour of the lande, to come into the pulpit and make a sermon, afterwarde to minister the sacraments, and from the Churche to goe with the scepter in his hande vnto the place of iudge∣ment: who would not be amased to see this, and wonder at it, as at a s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aūge and monstrous light? assuredly the self same deformitie it is, when as the minister of the word is made a Iustice of peace, of Quorum, a Commissioner, an Earle, or any suche like, to whom the iudgement of matters per∣teyning to the court of the ciuill Magistrate is committed, especially seeing there are God be 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ray∣sed) of the Nobilitie and Gentrie of this realme, that are able to discharge these offices much bet∣ter, than those ecclesiasticall persons to whome they are committed.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Bishop of Rome doth chalenge vnto him selfe the whole power and authori∣tie* 1.3 of the ciuill Magistrate, and that (as he sayth) by the word of God. He baasteth that temporall Princes haue their authoritie from him: and that it is in his power bothe to displace and place them. This we vtterly and most iustly condemne: but that iu∣risdiction ciuill that we allowe in ecclesiasticall persons, is not the whole power of the ciuill Magistrate, but onely so muche as may helpe to the good gouernment of the Churche, and the suppression of vice. Neyther doe we chalenge it as due, but receyue it from the ciuill Magistrate as conuenient, and execute it by his authoritie, not by our owne. This you could not but vnderstande, if you had not bin disposed to qua〈1 line〉〈1 line〉il.

You say, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tis an vntollerable confusion. &c. but this is a Popish surmise, and the exam∣ple vsed craftily to verifie the same: for the Papists doe imagine (or at the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 doe maliciously spread abrode) that by giuing to the Prince chiefe authoritie in eccle∣siasticall matters, we also giue vnto hir power to minister the sacramentes, and to preache the worde: In like maner you would insinuate vnto the Reader, that by al∣lowing ciuill functions in ecclesiasticall persons, we also allowe them to execute all kinde of ciuill functions: which is spoken of you as well to deface the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in matters ecclesiasticall, as it is to improue ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons. It is neyther confusion, nor vncomelynesse to come from the pul∣pit, and administration of the Sacraments, to the punishment and correction of vice and wickednesse. Neyther is it any monstruous or straunge sight, for an ecclesiasticall person to execute that kinde of discipline agaynst offendours, which by lawfull authoritie is established in the Church, whether it be by béeing Iustice of peace and Quorum, or a Comm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉issioner, or any other suche like office and function.

But remember I pray you what you sayd before in the treatise of Seni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rs: you* 1.4 there set it downe that they are ecclesiasticall persons: and yet M. Beza (as I haue there declared) sayth that noble men and Princes maye be of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉, wher∣fore eyther may ciuill and ecclesiasticall offices méete togither in eccles〈1 line〉〈1 line〉icall per∣sons (whiche you denie) or else can not noble men and Princes be of your Seignio∣rie, as M. Beza affirmeth: or if they be of your 〈◊〉〈◊〉, they must cast off their Baronries, Earldomes, and ciuill dominions (whiche I am sure they wyll not) or else to conclude, your assertion is straunge, and your S〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lorie con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉used.

I doubt not but that many of the Nobilitie and Gen〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rie of this Realme are more fitte for these things, than ecclesiasticall men are: neyther can I be persuaded, but that they consider how expedient it is notwithstanding, that such functions be com∣mitted to some of the cleargie: and I am well assured that they can not but easily es∣pie the deformitie & confusion that your platforme would bring to this Monarchie.

Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. Lin. 2.

And if so be that there fall out any question at any time whyche is to be decyded by the worde of God, and wherein the aduyse of the minister is needefull, there the ministers helpe maye and* 1.5 ought to be required. For thereof we haue not onely an example in (*) 1.6 Esra, where the Princes* 1.7 in a matter of difficultie, came and asked the counsell of Esra, but we haue a playne commaunde∣ment

in Moses by the Lorde, who commaunded that the cause of periurie shoulde be heard before the Lorde in the Sanctuary, at the hearing whereof the highe Priest should be present, by which commaundemente the Lorde dothe not by bringing thys cause into the Sanctuar e declare, that the iudgement thereof dyd apperteyne vnto the ecclesiasticall courte, but bicause it beeing a matter whiche touched the glory of God very expressely, he would haue the Princes whiche were Iudges there, to be the nearer touched, and the deepelyer affected wyth the glory of God, whereof they sau e the sacrament before their eyes, neyther is the high Priest commaunded to be present to this ende▪ that he should sit as iudge of that matter, but that he might dissolue the difficulties, if any rose of the vnderstanding of the lawe, and that he might pricke forwarde, and stirre vp by admoni∣tion▪ the princes to whome the iudgement apperteyned, if so be he should see them colde and slacke to reuenge the iniuried done vnto the Lorde. Which thing may the better appeare, in that the hand∣ling of the matter, is there appoynted, not vnto the priests, but vnto the Iudges or princes onely, and so lykewyse of matrimonie and diuorse, although the iudgement thereof apperteyne vnto the ciuill Magistrate, yet the minister, if there be any difficultie in knowing when it is a lawfull con∣tract, and when the diuorse is lawfull, may and ought to be consulted with. Thus may the com∣mon wealth and Churche enioy bothe the wisdome and searning which is in the minister, & things may be done in that order whych God hath appoynted, without suche confounding and iumbling of offices and iurisdictions togither.

Io. Whitgifte.

You woulde not haue a minister to enioy any ciuill office, and yet would you not* 1.8 haue the ciuill Magistrate to determine any thing in matters of weyght, without the aduise and counsell of the minister, that is, the Minister must prescribe vnto the ciuill Magistrate what he should doe in all weyghtie and doubtfull cau. es. This is your drifte in this place, so farre as I can gather: else I knowe not to what purpose you should spende so many words, for they conclude nothing agaynst the cause, but with it rather. In déede I haue heard say, that in some Churches which some of you haue gone about to reforme, the minister was all in all, and in all affayres his aduise and consent was had, else nothing could be done. Whiche authoritie surely passeth all the ciuill turisdiction, that I knowe any man hath or desireth in this Church. But you may intermeddle in the offices of Maiors, Bayliues, Iustices of peace, & in deede haue an oare in euery mans boate, and yet nothing hinder your Pastoral office: such is the excellencie of your wit and giftes aboue other men, that the same thing may be lawfull in you, a little portion wherof may not be permitted to others.

You make a fayre glosse vpon the. 19. of Deuteronomie: but howe aptly, the Rea∣der may consider if he marke the place well: the words of the text be these: If a false* 1.9 witnesse rise vp agaynst a man to accuse him of trespasse, then bothe the men that striue to∣gither shall stande before the Lorde, euen before the Priests and the Iudges whiche shall be in those dayes, and the Iudges shall make diligent inquisition. &c. First heere is no word of y^e Sanctuarie, for this that is sayd (before the Lord) M. Caluin in his harmonie doth interprete on this sorte: Coram leboua. i. corā sacerdotibus & iudicibus qui fuerunt in diebus illis: Before Iehoua, that is, before the Priests and Iudges which were in those dayes. And in deede God is sayde to be there present, where his true ministers are assem∣bled: wherfore your descanting of the Sanctuarie▪ is without any ground. Moreouer it dothe not appeare, by any thing in this place, but that the Priest had as muche to doe in the matter, as the iudge had: wherefore this place can not serue your turae in any respect.

The place in the. 9. of Esoras maketh altogither agaynst you: for the rulers came* 1.10 to complayne vnto Esoras, that the people had married with the Gentiles, and Es∣dras tooke vpon him as one hauing authoritie, to reforme it, and to separate them from their wyues, as it euidently appeareth in the tenth chapter, and. 4. and. 5. verse. For certayne of them came vnto Esoras, and spake vnto him in this maner: Aryse, for the matter belongeth vnto thee. &c. It appeareth that you haue very smal care what you alleage, so it may seeme to be something.

You adde in the ende, and say: and so likewyse of matrimonie and diuorse. &c. But the Reader muste take heede that he imagine not this assertion of yours, to be conteyned in any of these two places quoted by you. It is but your owne bare affirmation, you alleage no authoritie for it.

Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. in the midst▪

For although Aristotles 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and Platoes 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is, instruments seruing to two purposes, be lawfull in offices of the common wealth, where things are more free, and left in greater libertie to be ordered at the iudgement and aduise of men, especially considering that vpon the diuersitie of the formes of common wealthes, varietie of regiment may spring, yet in the Church of God, where things are brought to a strayghter rule, & which is but one & vniforme▪ the same may not be suffered. And yet euen those common wealth Philosophers, whiche doe licence vpon occasion, that two offices may meete in one man, holde that it is best, and conuenientest, that euery one should haue a particular charge. For Aristotle sayth, it is moste agreable to nature, that* 1.11 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 should be 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that is, one instrumēt to one vse. And Plato vseth the prouerbe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 agaynst those whych will take vpon them diuers vocations, and not content them selues with one, and they make the meeting of many functions in one man, to be a remedie only in extreme neede, and pouertie of able men.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be but words onely conteyning no sounde proofes, and require but a short answere, whiche is, that these ciuill and ecclesiasticall offices, whiche we ioyne to∣gither in one person, tende to one and the same ende, and serue for the same pur∣pose, that is, the quiet and good gouernment of the Churche, and the suppression of* 1.12 vyce and sinne. I haue proued before, that the externall forme and kinde of gouern∣ment in the Churche is not one and vniforme (as you heere affirme) but variable, according to place, person, and time.

Diuers offices may be committed to one man in a common wealth, though there be more fit for the same, excepte you wyll make the state popular, and restrayne the Prince from the libertie of bestowing suche offices vpon suche as she thinketh moste méete for them, which, if it be well marked, is parte of your drifte. Belike you or some of your friendes, lacke offices, and therefore you woulde gladly haue a newe distribution.

Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. somevvhat past the midst

And althoughe bothe be vnlawfull, yet as the case standeth in our realme, it is more tollerable that the ciuill Magistrate should doe the office of a minister, than that the minister shoulde inter∣meddle with the function of the Magistrate. For when the accounts shall be cast, it will fall out, that there are more sufficient and able men to serue in the common wealth of this realme, than in the Church, and greater want in the one, than in the other.

Io. Whitgifte.

This reason of yours if it were true dothe but accuse the Prince and hir Coun∣cell of lacke of due consideration of the state of this Realme: for this is a reason of Policie, and not of Diuinitie. Undoubtedly you are set vp in the chayre of controle∣ment, and your giftes are so great, that you dare presume to prescribe both new Di∣uinitie, and newe Pollicie. I doe nothing doubte but that the state of this common wealth is better knowne and considered, than that there shall néede any of your ad∣uertisementes for the gouernment of it: and therefore I passe ouer these wordes of yours, as voyde of reason, and full of presumption, and suche, whereby of stomacke onely you séeke to discredite and to disable the state of the Churche, and ecclesiasticall persons, agaynst whome you haue conceyued displeasure.

Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. somevvhat tovvards the ende.

And if beside this, both authoritie of the worde of God, & light of reason, we will looke vnto the practise of the church many yeres after the tyme of the Apostles, we shall finde that the church hath beene very carefull from tune to time, that this order should be kept, that the ministers should not entangle them selues with any thing beside their ministerie, and those thyngs whych the worde of God doth necessarily put vpon them, least the strength of theyr mynde, and of theyr body, beeyng distracted vnto many things, they shoulde be the lesse able to accomplishe their ministerie vnto the full. Which may also partly appeare by that whych I haue alleaged out of Cyprian, whyche wyll not permit them so much as to be executors of a Testament. And in the. 80. Canon of those which are ascribed vnto the Apostles, it is enioyned that they should not entangle themselues with world∣ly offices, but attende vpon their ecclesiasticall affayres.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you compare the state of the Churche before the time of Christian Kings, with the state of it vnder Christian Kings, you make an vnequall comparison. For howe coulde ecclesiasticall persons enioy any ciuill function, when there was no ciuil Ma∣gistrate christian to commit the same vnto them? How could by this meanes the go∣uernment of the Church be thought to be helped by the Ciuill Magistrate, when as it had no greater enimies than ciuill Magistrates, who sought by all meanes to sup∣presse and destroy it? but nowe to your reasons.

To 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yprians authoritie I haue answered before.

The Canons of the Apostles haue nowe béene alleaged by you at the least. 4. or. 5. times, and yet is not their credite and authoritie so firme. But that Canon mea∣neth onely suche worldely causes as be impedimentes to their vocation: and I haue tolde you often that ciuill functions be necessarie helpes, to the dooing and ful ac∣complishing of their ecclesiasticall office. I haue expressed in my Answere to the Ad∣monition, what worldly affayres a minister of the word may not intangle him selfe with.

Chap. seconde the. 8. diuision.

T. C. Pag. 168. Sect. vlt.

Further in the (*) councell of Calcedon it was decreed, that, none of the clearkes & cleargie* 1.13 (as it termeth them) should receyue any charge of those which are vnder age, vnlesse they were such as the lawes dyd necessarily cast vpon him, which it calleth inexcusable charges, meaning by all likelihoode the wardship of his brothers children, or some such thing. Where is also declared the cause of that decree to haue bin, for that there were certayne ministers which were Stewards to noble men. And 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the. 7. canon of the same councell it is decreed, that none of the cleargy shoulde eyther goe to warfare as souldiours or captaynes, or should receyue any secular honors, and if they dyd, they should be excommunicated, or accursed.

Io. Whitgifte.

The words of the thirde Canon be these: Relation is made vnto this holy Synode,* 1.14 that certayn amongst the cleargie for filthie lucers sake hyer other mens possessions, & take vpon them the causes of secular businesse, and through slouthfulnesse separate themselues frō diuine functions, and runne to the houses of secular persons, & for couetousnesse take vpon thē the gouernment of their substance: therfore this holy vniuersall & great Synode hath decreed, that none of these hereafter, that is, Bishop, or Clearke, or Monke, shall hyer possessions, or intermeddle with secular possessions, except those that by lawe are dryuen to take the tuition and care of suche as be vnder age: or those to whome the Bishop of the Citie hathe committed the gouernment of ecclesiasticall things, and of Orphanes and wi∣dowes, which are without succour, or of such persons which neede the helpe of the Church for the feare of God. &c.

This Canon conteyneth nothing contrarie to my assertion, the words of the Ca∣non be playne: I shall not néede to vse any exposition of it. Onely I would haue the

Reader marke the weight of your argument, which is this. The Councell of Chal∣cedon sayeth, that Clerkes may not for filthy lucres sake hyre other mennes possessions, or take vpon them for couetousnesse sake, the gouernment of other mennes possessions, &c. therefore there may be no ciuill office committed vnto them. I will aske no better cō∣mentaries to the Canon of the Apostles before alledged, or any other suche like, than this very Canon of the Councell of Chalcedon.

To what purpose do you alledge the. 7. Canon of that Councell? did you euer heare me say that I would haue a minister to be a Souldier or a captaine in warre? or enioy any such secular honor or offices? wherefore you lacke probation when you are constrayned to vse this.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Act. 6.
• * 1.2

  Why the Apo stles left of the Deacon∣ship. Caluine.
• * 1.3

  The ciuill iu∣risdiction that the Pope 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ay meth, not lyke to that in vse in this church
• * 1.4

  T. C. muste 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ther di〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sent from Beza, or graunt the controuersie. Tract. 17. cap. diuis.
• * 1.5

  Esra. 9.
• (*) 1.6

  This place maketh agaynst your selfe.
• * 1.7

  Deut. 19.
• * 1.8

  A greater in∣risdiction sou∣ght in dispro∣uing the lesse.
• * 1.9

  Deut. 19.
• * 1.10

  The Replyer ouerthroweth his owne cause.
• * 1.11

  Not Hercu∣les himselfe against tvvo
• * 1.12

  Tract. 17. cap. vit.
• * 1.13

  Tom. 1. can. 3.
• * 1.14

  Con. Calced. can. 3.