The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

¶Of subscribing to the Communion Booke. Tract. 21. (Book 21)

Certayne generall faults, wherewith the booke is charged by the Admonitors.

Chap. 1. the first Diuision.

The first article.

Fyrst that the booke commonly called the booke of common prayers for the Churche of Eng∣lande,* 1.1 authorised by Parliament, and all and euery contents therein, be suche as are not repugnant to the worde of God.

Admonition.

Albeit, right Honorable and dearely beloued, we haue at all times borne with that whiche we could not amende in this booke, and haue vsed the same in our ministerie, so farre foorth as we might, reuerencing those times, and those persons, in whiche and by whome it was first authorised, beeing studious of peace, and of the buylding vp of Christes church, yet nowe beeing compelled by subscription to allowe the same, and to confesse it not to be against the worde, of God in any poynt, but tollerable: we must needes say as followeth, that this booke is an vnperfect booke, culled and picked out of the Popishe dunghill the Masse booke, full of all abhominations, for some, and many of the contents therein, be suche as are agaynst the worde of God, as by his grace shall be proued vnto you. And by the waye we can not but muche maruell at the crafcie wilinesse of those men, whose parts it had beene first to haue proued eache and euery content therein, to be agreable to the worde of God, seeing that they forcemen by subscription to consent vnto it, or else sende them pac∣king from their callings.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 149. Sect. 1.

And what reason can you giue why you should not aswell all owe* 1.2 of it by subscription, as you say, that you haue hitherto done by vsing of it in your ministerie? Will you speake one thing, and doe an other? Will you not subscribe to that, whiche you publikely vse, and giue your consent vnto?

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1.

The Admonition hath no such thing, as M. Doctor chargeth the authors therof with, that they dyd euer allow of the booke of seruice. It sayth, they bare with it, and vsed it so farre, as they might, and therfore nowe when it came to the approuing of it by subscription, they refused, and there is no man which can not vnderstande, that it is one thing to beate with a thing, and an other to approue it, and therfore to beare, and to vse it so farre as might be, may well agree with their refusall of sub∣scription, so that M. Doctors note is not worth the noting. The Apostles did beare with the infir∣mitie of the Iewes addicted to the obseruation of the ceremoniall lawe, yet they neuer allowed that infirmitie, and they were so farre from approuing it by subscribing, that they wrote agaynst it.

Io. Whitgifte.

They say they haue not only borne with it, but vsed it also in their ministerie. &c. & he that vseth a thing doth as much allowe of it by vsing, as he could doe by subscribing. But I will not contende with you about a matter of so small weight: for neyther is their learning, discretion, or iudgement suche, that the booke is better or worse for their allowing or disallowing of it. They shew their natures bent to contention, and vnreuerent estimation of the scriptures by abusing of them, and that is all that can be gathered out of their booke.

The Apostles refused not to subscribe vnto such things as they permitted vnto the Iewes for a time, neyther did they beare with any thing, for their infirmitie, agaynst the which they wrote. If they haue done any such thing, note the place.

Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 149. Sect. 1.

If those persons by whome this booke was first authorised, were studious of peace, and of buylding vp of Christes Church, as you say they were, then you that seeke to deface it, are disturbers of peace, and destroyers of the Churche of Christ. They were singular learned men, zelous in Gods religion, blamelesse in life, and Martyrs at their end, for eyther al, or the most part of them haue sealed this booke with their bloud. But by the* 1.3 way this is to be noted, that you confesse your selues to haue allo∣wed that (by vsing of it) which you say is agaynst the worde of God.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1.

Those sayth M. Doctor which authorised this booke, were studious of peace, and of buylding of Christes Church, therfore they that speake agaynst it (which he calleth defacing) are disturbers of the peace, and destroyers of the Church. So I will reason. (*) 1.4 Gedeon was studious of peace, and of building of the Church, therefore they whyche spake agaynst the Ephod whyche he made were disturbers of the peace, and destroyers of the church. We speake agaynst Images in chur∣ches and consubstantiation in the sacraments, & such lyke, which Luther beeing studious of peace, and of the building of the church did holde, and yet we are not therfore disturbers of peace, or de∣stroyers of the church. Although they were excellent personages, yet their knowledge was in part, and although they brought many things to our light, yet they beeing sent out in y^e morning, or euer the sunne of the Gospell was risen so hygh, might ouersee many things, which those that are not so sharpe of sight as they were, may see, for bicause that which they want in the sharpnesse of sight, they haue by the benefite and clearnesse of the sunne, and of the light. They sealed not the booke of seruice with their bloud (as M. Doctor sayth) for some that suffered for the truth, declared openly their misliking of certayne things in it, and as for the other they could neuer dye for that booke, more than for the Lyturgie vsed in the French church, or at Geneua. For they receyued not the sentence of condemnation, bicause they approued that booke, but bicause they improued the articles drawne out of the Masse booke. And if they had dyed for that booke (as in deede they dyed for the booke of God) yet the authoritie of their martyrdome coulde not take away from vs this libertie that we haue to enquire of the cause of their death. Iustine and Cyprian were godly Martyrs, and yet a man may not say, that they sealed their errours whiche they wrote wyth their bloud, or wyth this glory of their martyrdome, preiudice those which speake or write agaynst their errours, for this is to oppose the bloud of men, to the bloud of the sonne of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be the words of the Admonition: they saye that the Authors of that booke were studious of peace, and of the building vp of Christes Churche. and therefore vpon their owne words and confession, I grounde mine argument. This peace that they were studious of, and sought to maynteyne by collecting and authorising this booke, was a godly peace, sought to be maynteyned by godly meanes: and therefore suche as shall deface that godly meanes, wherby they procured peace, can not de iudged otherwyse, than disturbers of the same peace.

Gedeon by making the Ephod did not séeke peace, but rather glory, for he erected* 1.5 it to be a monument of his victorie: Gedeon erected the Ephod for an other ende and purpose than God did appoynt it: the Ephod that Gedeon made, was the cause of ido∣latrie. Likewise Images are expresly forbidden in the word of God, & there is a direct cōmaundement agaynst them: so is consubstātiation also. But the booke of common prayer is framed according to the scriptures, appoynted to the true worshipping of God, most repugnant to all Idolatrie, & Idolatrous worshipping: and therfore these similitudes & exāples that you vse be nothing like: it is neither like to Gedeons Ephod▪ nor maynteineth Luthers Images: or consubstantiation, but ouerthroweth them all.

Their knowledge was in parte, in that sense that the Apostle speaketh. Ex parte* 1.6 enim cognoscimus, & ex parte prophetamus: VVe knowe in part, and we prophecie in part. &c. But if they be compared vnto men, I thinke for learning, zeale, godlynesse & sounde* 1.7 iudgemēt, most of thē haue not bin ouermatched, by any that hath folowed. And surely their learning & iudgement was singular. But no maruell it is, though you make so small account of me poore wretch, when you so basely speake of them. Undoubtedly in cōparison of your selues, I thinke you contēne all learned men both liuing & dead.

They may well be sayde to haue sealed this booke wyth their bloud,* 1.8 bicause they were martyred for that religion that is conteyned in this booke, and ac∣cording to the which this booke was framed: and if they were condemned, for impro∣uing the articles drawne out of the Masse booke▪ (as you say) why maye it not be likewise affirmed, that they receyued the sentence of condemnation, for approuing the Articles conteyned in the Communion booke: I know the booke they dyed for, was the booke of God, yet did not the aduersarie pretende that, but the articles drawne out of this, and suche like bookes, grounded vpon the worde and booke of God.

Name one of them, who at the time of his death, or in y^e time of his imprisonmēt, declared openly his misliking of certayne things in this booke. I can shew you the contrarie: That notable vessell of God, for learning, zeale, and vertue, inferiour to none of our* 1.9 age, Master Ridley Bishop of London, in his (last farewell) as it is called, looking day∣ly and hourely when he should go to the stake, giueth this testimonie of this same booke of common prayers, the whiche the Churche of Englande nowe vseth, and you so contemptuously reiect. This Churche (sayth he) of Englande had of late, of the* 1.10 infinite goodnesse, and abundant grace of almightie God, great substance, great riches of heauenly treasure, plentie of Gods true and sincere worde, the true and vvholsome administration of Christes holy sacraments, the whole profession of Christes religion, truely and playnely set foorth in baptisme, the playne declaration and vnderstan∣ding of the same taught in the holy▪ Catechisme, to haue bin learned of all true Christians. This Church had also a true and sincere forme and maner of the Lords supper, wherin according to Iesus Christes ordināce & holy institution, Christes cōmaundements were executed and done. For vpon the bread and wine set vpon the Lords table, thāks were giuen, the commemoration of the Lords death was had, the bread in the remembrance of Christes body torne vpon the crosse, was broken: and the cuppe in remembrance of Chri∣stes bloud was distributed, and both communicated vnto all that were present, and woulde receyue them, and also they were exhorted of the minister so to do.

All was done openly in the vulgare tongue, so that euery thing mighte be bothe easily heard, and playnely vnderstoode of all the people, to Gods high glory, and the edification of

the whole Church. This Church had of late the whole diuine seruice, all common and pub∣like prayers ordeyned to be sayde and heard in the common congregarion, not onely formed and fashioned to the true vayne of the holy Scripture, but also set foorth according to the commaundement of the Lorde, and S. Paules doc∣trine, for the peoples edification in their vulgar tongue.

But I knowe his testimonie shall weigh with you, as all other mens doe, howbeit I trust it will pearce the hearts of the godly. Neyther is this to oppose the bloud of men, to the bloud of the sonne of God, when the martyrdome of men is brought into beare witnesse vnto the truthe of God.

Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 149. Sect. vlt. &. 150. Sect. 1. 2.

The vnperfectnesse of this booke, and such things in the fame as be culled and picked out of that popishe dunghill, the Masse booke, with the contents therein that be agaynst the worde of God, shall appeare I am sure in your seuerall reasons, for it is not sufficient for you, barely to saye so, without witte, learning, or reason.

This you know right wel, that in so saying you make the Papists* 1.11 leape for ioye, bicause they haue gotten suche companions to assaulte this booke, whylest they rest them, & lye as it were in sleepe. O that the wyse men of this realme (suche I meane as be in authoritie) see not this Popishe practise, and seeke not with more earnestnesse to preuent it. Will ye suffer the Papists to gather strength, and to mul∣tiplie, by tollerating such Libellers, vnder the pretēce of reformatiō, to discredite so muche as lyeth in them, yea to ouerthrow the whole state, and substance of religion in this Churche? Bee not secure, but watche, and remember the beginning and encrease of the Ana∣baptistes of late in Germanie, whiche I haue described in my Pre∣face to this booke.

You saye, that you can not but much maruell at the craftie wilynesse of those men, whose partes it had beene first to haue proued eache and euery content therin to be agrea∣ble to Gods word. &c. Nay surely, but it were your parts rather to proue* 1.12 that there is something therein contrarie or not agreable to Gods worde. For such as be learned, and knowe the manner of reasoning say, that the Opponent must proue or improue, and not the answe∣rer. They stande to the defense and mayntenance of the booke: you seeke to ouerthrowe it: it is your partes therfore to iustifie your as∣sertions, by reasons and arguments.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1.

For the Papistes triumphe I haue answered before, and I will not striue about the Goates 〈◊〉〈◊〉, who is the apponent, and who the respondent in this difference.

Io. Whitgifte.

Thus you passe all this ouer in silence, for I doe not remember where you haue answered one worde to it.

Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision.

Admonition.

They should first proue by the worde of God, that a reading seruice going before and with the administration of the sacraments, is according to the worde of God, that wafer cakes for theyr bread when they minister it. surplesse and cope to doe it in, churching of women comming in vayles abuong the Psalme to hir. I haue lifted vp mine eyes vnto the hilles. &c. and suche other* 1.13 foolishe things, are agreable to the written worde of the almightie.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 151. Sect. 2. &. 152. Sect, 1.

I doe not well vnderstande your meaning: would you haue vs to proue, that to reade prayers before, and with the administration of* 1.14 the sacraments, is according to the worde of God? In deede in the booke of seruice there is first appoynted to be read some one or two profitable sentences, mouing eyther to prayer, or to repentance, after followeth a generall confession, then the Lords prayer, and certayne Psalmes, nexte certayne chapters out of the olde and newe Testa∣mente. &c. laste of all, the administration of the sacramente. If you aske me of the sentences: they be scripture. If of the Lordes prayer Psalmes, and chapters: they be scripture also. If of the sacrament of the Supper: it is according to scripture, Matth. 26. Marke. 14. Luke. 22. 1. Cor. 11. If of the other prayers annexed: they be lyke∣wise according to the scripture, for they be made to God in Christes name, for suche thinges as we neede, or as we desire, according to that saying of Christ: Quicquid petieritis &c. VVhatsoeuer you aske my father in my name. &c. And agayne: Petite & dabitur vobis: Aske, and it shall be giuen vnto you. Mat. 7. & Iacob. 1. If any of you lacke wis∣dome, let him aske it. &c. And. 1. Timoth. 2. with other infinite pla∣ces besides.

If you would haue vs to proue that to reade prayers or scripture* 1.15 in the Church is according to the word of God (which you seeme to denie) then we say vnto you▪ that if there were any pietie in you, any religion, any learning, you would make no such vayne and godlesse doubts. was there euer any from the beginning of the world to this day (the Zuinfildians onely excepted) that misliked reading of pray∣ers and scriptures in the Church, but you?

Of wafer cakes, ministring in surplesse, or cope, & churching of women, I haue spo∣ken* 1.16 before: wafer cakes be bread: surplesse & cope, by those that haue authoritie in the church, are thought to perteyne to comelynesse and decencie. Churching of women is to giue thāks for their deliuerāce. Bread to be vsed in the Cōmunion, comelynesse and decencie, giuing of thanks for deliuerance out of peril & daunger, be agreable to Gods word: therfore al these things be agreable to gods word. The forme of bread, whether it ought to be cake bread, or loafe bread: euery par∣ticular* 1.17 thing that perteyneth to decencie or comelynesse, at what time, in what place, with what words we ought to giue thanks, is not particularly written in scripture, no more than it is, that you were baptized. And therfore (as I haue proued before) in such cases the Church hath to determine and appoynt an order.

Admonition.

But their craft is playne: wherin they deceyue them selues, standing so much vpon this word repugnant, as though nothing were repugnant or agaynst the worde of God, but that whiche is expressely forbidden by playne commaundement, they know well inough, and would confesse, if ey∣ther they were not blinded, or else their hearts hardned, that in the circumstances, eache content,* 1.18 wherwith we iustly finde fault, and they too contentiously for the loue of their liuings maynteyne, smelling of their olde Popish priesthoode, is agaynst the worde of God.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 156. &. 157. Sect. 1.

If they were disposed to be craftie, I thinke they might soone de∣ceyue you, for any great circumspection or discretion that appeareth to be in you, by this booke. You finde great fault, that we stande so muche vpō this word repugnant, as though nothing were repugnant or agaynst the word of God, but that which is expressely forbidden by playne cōmaundement, and herein (you saye) we deceyue our selues. But you do not tell vs howe we are deceyued, nei∣ther do you let vs vnderstande, what you thinke this worde (repug∣nant) doth signifie. This is but slender dealing, to finde a fault, and not to correct it: you should yet haue tolde vs your opiniō of the sig∣nification of this worde, seeing so great a matter doth depende vpon it. True it is, that this worde (repugnant) or (agaynst the worde of God) is to* 1.19 be contrarie to that which in the worde is comaunded or forbidden, not onely in manifest words, but also in sense and vnderstanding: ex∣cept you vnderstande this worde (repugnant) on this sorte, you wyll bring in many poynts of daungerous doctrine: for we reade in the Acts. 2. &. 4. that the Apostles had all things common, and yet Chri∣stians haue not al things common. Those that were then conuerted to the Gospell, solde all they had, and layde it at the Apostles feete. Act 4. Now it is farre otherwise. Then Christ ministred his supper at night, after supper, we in the morning before dinner: he in a pri∣uate house, we in the publike Churche: he to men onely, we to wo∣men also, with a great many of such apparant contrarieties, which be none in deede, bicause they be not agaynst any thing cōmaunded or forbidden to be done, or not to be done, eyther in expresse words, or in true sense. And therfore you are greatly deceyued, when you think that we are persuaded, that those things which you find fault with, be agaynst the worde of God.

As for this your saying (If eyther they were not blinded, or else their harts har∣dened) I pray God it be not most aptly spoken of your selues, but I will not take vpon me to iudge those secrets, that be onely knowne to God and your selues.

Admonition.

By the worde of God it is an office of preaching, they make it an office of reading. Christe sayde (a) 1.20 go preache.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 158. Sect. vlt.

You say, by the worde of God the ministerie is an office of preaching, and we make it an office of reading. To proue it to be an office of preaching you note in your margent, Matth. 26. But I thinke your meaning is the. 28. and Mark 16. where Christ sayth to his Disciples: Go therfore and teach all nations. &c. What if a man should say vnto you, that this com∣mission was giuen onely to the Apostles? for he sayth: Go into the

whole worlde, where as you teach now, that no man may come into the ministerie, except he first haue a stocke, & then must he keepe him with his flocke, and go no further. If this doctrine be true, then can not this place serue your turne: for as the office of Apostle is ceased by your doctrine, so is this commission also, except you will haue the one part to stande, that is, Goe and preach, and this to be abrogated, In vniuersum mundum, into the vvhole vvorlde.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue not any where answered directly to any of this, and to the most of it, and diuers other things included betwixt the. 151. Page and the. 171. You haue not an∣swered one woorde: which the Reader by conference may vnderstand: and I for bre∣uities sake haue omitted to set downe.

¶ Of reading of Homilies and the Apo∣crypha in the Churche.

Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision.

Admonition.

The second reason. In this booke also it is appoynted that after the Creede if there be no sermon, an homily must follow eyther already set out, or hereafter to be set out. This is scarce playne dealyng, that they would haue vs to consent vnto that which we neuer saw, and whiche is to be set out hereafter, we hauing had such cause already to distrust them by that whiche is already set out, beyng corrupt and straunge to maynteyne an vnlearned and reading ministerie. And sith it is playne that mens workes ought to be kepte in, and nothing else but the voyce of God and ho∣ly Scriptures, in whiche onely are conteyned (y) 1.21 all fulnesse and sufficiencie to decide controuer∣sies,* 1.22 must sound in his church, for the very name Apocrypha testifieth, that they ought rather to be kept close, than to be vttered.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 171. Sect. 1. 2.

Your second reason in fewe wordes is this: In the booke of common* 1.23 prayer it is appointed that after the Creede, if there be no sermon, an Homilie must follow, eyther already set out, or hereafter to be set out, but you knowe not what will hereafter be set out, therefore you will not subscribe.

You haue no cause to suspect any thing touching religion set out by publike authoritie (for so is the booke) or hereafter to be set out by com∣mon authoritie. Hitherto you are not able to conuince any Homilie set out by common authoritie, of any errour, and therfore you ought not* 1.24 to be suspicious of any that is to come. If any Homilie shall hereaf∣ter be set out, wherein you mislike any thing, you neede not to reade it, the booke doth not appoynt you this or that Homily to reade, but some one which you like best. But what neede you to be scrupulous in this matter? if you be disposed to preache, then neede you reade no Homilie at all, therefore this is no reason.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 2.

I answere that although it be meete, that as we hope that the Homilies which are made al∣ready be godly, so those that shall be made hereafter, shalbe likewise: yet considering the mutabili∣tie of men, and that of tentimes to the worse, it is not meere. nay, it is merely vnlawfull, to subscribe to a blancke, seyng that we cannot witnesse or allow of those thinges which we haue not seene nor hearde.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you be disposed to quarrell, it is an easie matter to picke out occasions, but your suspicion is without cause, and I thinke a modest protestation in that poynt would not be refused.

Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 171. Sect. 3. 4.

This assertion (that in the holy Scriptures is conteyned all fulnesse to decide controuersies) if you meane controuersies in matters of fayth, and in matters touching saluation, is very true, but you haue vsed litle dis∣cretion in quoting some places to proue the same.

I finde no faulte with you for cyting the sixte verse of the. 2. Tim. 3. for the. 16. verse, that is but a small ouersight, and it may be in the Printer: but howe do you conclude this assertion of the wordes of Peter. 2. Epist. cap. 1. verse. 20. which be these, so that ye firste knovv that no prophecie of the Scripture is of any priuate motion: for this place on∣ly proueth that the Scriptures be not of men, but of the holy ghost: it speaketh nothing of the sufficiencie of the Scripture.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing answered.

Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 172. Sect. 1. 2. 3.

That place also. 1. Cor. 1. is not fitly applied to this purpose: there is Scripture sufficient directly to proue the sufficiencie of scripture, so that you should not haue needed to giue the aduersarie occasion to carpe at the vnaptnesse of these places for that purpose.

Homilies conteyning doctrine agreable to the Scriptures, be of the same nature that sermons be: Wherefore if it be not lawfull in the Churche to reade Homilies, neyther is it lawfull to preach Ser∣mons: The reason is all one, neither is there any difference, but that Homelies be read in the booke, Sermons sayde without the booke.

Homilies are pithie, learned, and sounde: sermons oftentimes be* 1.25 wordes without matter, vnlearned, erroneous.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. vlt.

The place vnto the Corinthes, is the same vnto the Romaines, and M. Doctor approuing one hath no cause to finde faulte with the other. For the hemilies, first of all I haue shewed how absurde a saying, and how vnlike a diuine it is, to matche reading of homilies with preaching of sermons. For if the reading of the holy Scriptures is nothing so fruitefull as the preaching of them, muche lesse is the reading of homilies to be for their fruite matched with preaching of ser∣mons.

Io. Whitgifte.

Neither of both the places doth proue directly that, for the which the Authors of the Admonition do vse them: and there be other places more manifest which they haue omitted.

I haue answered in that place to all your Replie concerning this point: I do not match reading of Homilies with Sermons simply, or with all sermons, but with* 1.26 some: and to some sermons I do preferre the Reading of Homilies for the causes conteyned in mine Answere to the Admonition. Both the reading and the preach∣ing of the Scriptures is necessarie, and the one in diuerse respectes as necessarie, and in some respectes more necessarie than the other. For the Scripture is the rule to discerne and iudge sermons and preachers by: Christe willeth to take heede of false* 1.27 Prophetes. Math. 7. Which can not be done without the diligent reading of the Scrip∣tures: those of Thessalonica are to be commended, for trying by the Scriptures the* 1.28 doctrine preached vnto them: Act. 17. S. Iohn willeth that the spirites be tried, whe∣ther* 1.29 they be of God or no, which must be by the Scriptures. S. Paule Gal. 1. willeth them to holde him accursed that shall preach any other Gospell vnto them, whiche they can not do without that knowledge, whiche God doth giue vnto them by reading of the Scriptures. Infinite places there be, that tendeth to this ende, but I haue spoken of this matter before. This is my opinion that both reading and preaching be most necessarie: but in some respectes the one to be preferred before the other.

Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. vlt.

There remayneth that I shew briefly, that neyther the Homilies nor the Apocrypha, are at all to be redde in the Churche. Wherein first it is good to consider the order which the Lorde kept with his people in tymes past, when he commaunded that no vessell, nor no instrument, either be∣some, or flesh hooke, or panne, &c. should come into the temple▪ but those onely which were sanctified and set aparte for that vse. And in Leuiticus, he will haue no other trumpets blowne to call the* 1.30 people togither, but those onely which were set aparte for that purpose. What should the meaning of this lawe be? The matter of other common vessels and trumpets, was the same oftentimes which theirs was, the same forme also, and the other beesomes and hookes and trumpets hable to serne for the vses ofsweeping and sounding. &c. as well as those of the temple, and as those whiche were set aparte, wherfore mought not these then as well be vsed in the temple as others? Forsoth, bicause the Lord would by these rudimēts & pedagogie teach, that he would haue nothing brought into the church, but that which he had appoynted, no, not although they seemed in the iudgement of men, as good as those things which God himselfe had placed there. Which thing is much more to be obserued in this matter, seing that the Homelies redde, be they neuer so learned and pithie, neyther the Apocrypha, are to be cōpared either in goodnesse within thēselues, eyther in fruite, or in effect towards the hearer, with the authenticall scriptures of God. Now if a man will say that the Ho∣milies do explane, and lay open the scriptures, I answere, that the worde of God also is playne and* 1.31 easie to be vnderstanded, and such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiotes and to the simple. And if* 1.32 there be hardnesse in them, yet the promise of the assistance of Gods spirite, that God hath giuen to the reading of the Scriptures in the church, which he hath not giuen to homilies▪ or to the Apocry∣pha, will be able to weygh with the harduesse, and to ouer come it, so that there shall easily appeare greater profite to come vnto the church by reading of the scriptures▪ than by reading of homilies.

Io. Whitgifte.

All this of the vestels of the temple, the instruments, beesoms, flesh hookes, trumpets, &c. is superstuous, and proueth nothing, except it can be shewed that the Lorde hath com∣maunded only the Canonicall scriptures to be redde in the Church and nothing els: or that the Lord hath as particularly expressed all thinges to be vsed in the Churche vnder the Gospell, as he did in the temple vnder the lawe, the contrarie whereof I haue proued Tract. 2. and the kinde of reasoning that you vse in this and other places* 1.33 vpon similitudes is not of sufficient force to proue any thing, onely it carrieth away the ignorant people. In the rest of this portion you argue against your selfe: for you proue the excellentie, and the worthinesse of the Scriptures, and the great cōmoditie that cōmeth by reading of them, which I haue laboured against the authours of the Admonition to verifie. But what can you therevpon cōclude agaynst Homilies, that may not be in like manner against Sermons, or other interpretation of the Scrip∣tures? and rather against the one, (that is sermons) than against the other. For as I sayd before, I make this onely difference betwixt Homilies & Sermons, that the one is pronounced within the booke, the other not so. If you obiect & say that the Preacher

is directed by the spirite of God, I will answere that the writers of Homilies, be so likewise. And what can you alleage in this poynt for the one, that I can not alleage for the other? The promise of the assistance of Gods spirite, is as well giuen to him that writeth Homilies, & to those that heare them, as it is to such as studie for their sermons, & such as heare them. To the Scriptures I giue the chiefe preheminence, but yet both Sermons, and all other kindes of teaching, publishing the doctrine con∣teyned in the Scriptures, haue their singular commodities, and necessarie vses in the Churche of God.

But either I vnderstande you amisse, or else do you not well agrée with your* 1.34 self: for let the Reader consider the great commoditie, that you truly giue to the rea∣ding of the Scripture in this place, with that abasing of the same, that in the defense of the authors of the Admonitiō you vse Pag. 173. which I will also note when I come* 1.35 to that place.

Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 158. Sect. 1.

Besides this the pollicie of the church of God in tymes past is to be followed herein, that for the expounding of darker places, places of more easinesse ought to be ioyned togither, as in the per∣secution of Antiochus, where they coulde not haue the commoditie of preaching, the Iewes did appoynt at their meeting alwayes a peece of the lawe to be redde, and with all a peece of the Pro∣phets which expounded that peece of the lawe, rather than to bryng in interpretations of men to be redde. And bycause I am entred into that matter, here commeth to be considered, the practise also of the church, both before our sauiour Christes comming, and after, that when the churches met togither, there is nothing mentioned but the reading of the Scriptures, for so is the Liturgie described in the Actes. And it is not to be thought, but that they had those which made expositions* 1.36 of the law & the Prophets. And besides that they had Onkelos the Calday paraprast, both Gala∣tyne,* 1.37 and Rabbi Moses (surnamed Maynion) write, that Ionathan an other of the Calday para∣phrasts florished in our sauiour Christes time, whose writings & paraphrases vpon the scriptures, are esteemed cōparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall writing, with any which hath laboured that wayes, & if any mens writings were to be redde in the churche, those paraphrases which in expla∣ning the scripture, go least from it, and which kept not only the numbre of sentences, but almost the very number of wordes, were of all most fit to be redde in the churche, seyng therefore (I say) the church of God then absteyned from such interpretations in the churche, and contented it selfe with the scriptures, it can not be but a most daungerous attempt, to bring any thing into the churche to be redde, besides the worde of God. This practise (*) 1.38 continued still in the Churches of God after the Apostles times, as may appeare by the second Apologie of Iustine Martyr, whiche sheweth that their manner was to read in the church the monuments of the Prophets, and of the Apostles, and if they had redde any thing els, it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe, considering that his purpose there, is to shewe the whole order whiche was vsed in their churches then. The same may appeare in the first homilie of Origen vpon Exodus, and vpon the Iudges.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely in all this there is nothing spokē against reading of Homilies, that may* 1.39 not in like manner be alleaged against preaching of sermons, & other godly exercises of interpreting the scriptures: for if Homilies interpreting the scriptures according to the true meaning, & sense of them, be the interpretations of men, and therefore not to be redde in the Church, whose interpretations shall we call Sermons, and other readinges? The one as well as the other is vttered by men, & by men in that order framed. But I thinke that no right and true interpretation of the Scripture is to be* 1.40 compted mans, though it be written, redde, or preached by man, for the spirite of God is the Author of it, & man is but the instrument. The rest of your proofes taken frō the vse of the Church (as you say) be all ab authoritate negatiuè: and most of them ab au∣thoritate hominum: whiche kinde of argument your self haue before vtterly condēned. I haue oftentimes could you that an argument, à non facto, ad non ius (& it is M. Zuin∣glius and other mens iudgement, as well as mine) is good neyther in diuine, nor yet in humane thinges.

So far as I can learne Ionathan the Calday Paraphrast, florished not in Chri∣stes* 1.41 time, (as you say) but. 42. yeares before Christ was borne, and I thinke there is none of these Paraphrastes so faithfull, in interpreting, but that they misse in some places: & you can not but acknowledge, that one good Sermon or Homilie of some

learned mans, well & plainely redde to the people, may edifie them more, than the reading of these Paraphrastes. And yet I suppose you knowe, that the Iewes haue those Paraphrastes, as yet redde in their Churches: wherefore hitherto if you haue spoken any thing it is against your selfe.

But you say, that this practise continued still in the Churches of god, &c. and you proue it by Iustine Martyr, bycause he mentioneth nothing read in the churche, but Monuments of the Prophetes, and Ipostles. Concerning your proofe, I haue declared already of what force it is, being drawne ab authoritate humana negatiuè. Now that this practise continued not still in the Church, you shall easily perceyue if you peruse that which Eusebius wri∣teth* 1.42 out of an Epistle of Dionysius Corinthius to Soter Byshop of Rome, where he writeth after this sorte. And in this epistle there is mention of an Epistle of Clemēt writ∣ten to the Corinthians, declaring that (according to the olde custome) it was read in the* 1.43 Church. For thus he sayth: we haue this day celebrated the holy day of the Lorde, where∣in we read your Epistle, whiche we will alwayes read for admonition sake, in like sorte as* 1.44 the former epistle written to vs from Clement. The Authors of the Centuries wri∣ting of this Dionysius, thinke it not vnlike that his Epistles were also read in the Churche, bicause Eusebius calleth them Catholicas, Catholike. Their woordes be these: Non videtur prae〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ereundum, quòd Eusebius basce epistolas Catholicas vocet: fortè quia in Ecc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e∣sijs* 1.45 piorum solitae sunt legi, sicut Clementis. This thing woulde not be omitted, that Euse∣bius calleth these epistles Catholike: peraduenture, bicause they were wonte to be read in the Churches of the faythfull, as the Epistle of Clement was. And this may testifie of the practise of the Churche in Iustinus Martyrs time better than your negatiue* 1.46 argument. And of the practise since, the. 4. Can. Concil. Vasens. will giue sufficient testimo∣nie, where it is decreed, that if the ministers be let by infirmitie or sickenesse, the Homi∣lies* 1.47 of the fathers should be read of the Deacons.

Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 172. Sect. 3.

But of readyng Homilyes in the Churche I haue some thing* 1.48 spoken before, nowe it shall be sufficient onely to set downe Master Bucers iudgement of this matter in his notes vpon the Commu∣nion booke, whiche is this. It is better that vvhere there lackes to ex∣pounde the Scriptures vnto the people, there shoulde be Godly and lear∣ned Homilyes redde vnto them, rather than they shoulde haue no exhor∣tation at all in the administration of the Supper. And a litle after: There be too fevve Homilies, and to fevve poyntes of Religion taught in them: vvhen therefore the Lorde shall blesse this kingdome, vvith some excel∣lent Preachers, lette them be commaunded to make mo Homilyes of the principall poynts of Religion, vvhich may be redde to the people, by those Pastors, that can not make better themselues.

T. C. Pag. 158. Tovvardes the ende.

And as for Master Bucers authoritie, I haue shewed before how it ought to be weyghed, and here also it is suspitious, for that it is sayde that his aduise was, that when the Lord should blesse the realme with mo learned preachers, that then order should be taken to make more homi∣lies, which should be redde in y^e church vnto the people. As if M. Bucer did not know. that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme, which were able to make Homilies so many as the volume of thē might easily haue exceeded the volume of the Bible, if the multitude of Homi∣lies, would haue done so much good. And if the authoritie of Master Bucer beare so great a swaye with Master Doctor, that vpon his credite onely, without eyther Scripture or reason,

or examples of the Churches primitiue, or those which are nowe, he dare thrust into the churche Homilies, then the authorities of the most auncient and best councels ought to haue bene conside∣red, which haue giuen charge, that nothing should be redde in the church, but onely the Canonicall Scriptures.

Io. Whitgifte.

They are M. Bucers woordes in déede, neyther is there any cause why you should suspect them so to be. And it is not his iudgemēt only, but other learned mens* 1.49 also: and namely that famous man D. Ridlies, Bishop of London in the treatise be∣fore rehearsed. Wherein thus he speaketh of the Churche of Englande, that was in King Edwards time. It had also holy and wholesome Homilies in commendation of the* 1.50 principall vertues, which are commended in Scripture, and likewise other Homilies agaynst the most pernicious and capitall vices, that vseth (alas) to reygne in this Church of England. And truly these authorities if I had no other reason, preuaile more with me than all that you, or any of your parte had sayd, or is able to say to the contrarie.

Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 159. Lin. 4.

For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea, that nothing should be redde in the churche, but the Canonicall bookes, of the olde and newe Testament, and reckeneth vp what they be. Af∣terwarde* 1.51 as corruptions grewe in the church▪ it was permitted that homilies might be redde by the Deacon, when the minister was sicke, and could not preach, and it was also in an other Coun∣cell of Carthage permitted, that the martyres lyues might be redde in the church, but besides the e∣uill successe that those decrecs had (vnder preteuce whereof the Popish Legende, and Gregories* 1.52 homilies, &c. creptin) that vse and custome was controlled by other councels, as may appeare by the councell of Colen, albeit otherwise Popishe. And truly if there were nothing else but this con∣sideration, that the bringyng in of the readyng of Martyres liues into the churche, and of the ho∣milies of auncient wryters, hath not onely by this meanes iustled with the Bible, but also thrust it cleane out of the church, or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene, it ought to teache all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God, be they neuer so well learned, as long as the world should endure.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is certayne that the decrée of the Councel of Laodicea, can no more condemne the reading of Homilies in the Churche, than it may the readyng of Prayers or Ca∣thechismes, or any other interpretation of the Scriptures. The meaning of the* 1.53 Councell is onely, that nothing be redde in the Churche as Scripture, or vnder the name of Scripture, but that which is Canonicall. And that doth euidently appeare in the. 47. Canon of the third Councell of Carthage, which doth explane this Canon. The woordes be these: Item placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas, nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum. It is thought good that nothing be redde in the Church, vnder the name of the scriptures of God, but the Canonicall Scriptures. It doth not ther∣fore* 1.54 inhibite interpretations of the scripture and godly exhortations grounded vpon the same to be redde. Concilium vasense (as it is before declared) appointeth Homilies* 1.55 to be redde, when there is no Sermon, by reason of some infirmitie or sickenesse in the minister, which is a godly and profitable decrée, neyther could it be the cause of a∣ny corruption.

I do not defend the reading of any thing in the Churche which is not grounded* 1.56 vpon the worde of God, therefore the decrée of the Councell of Carthage, or any such like doth nothing touch the cause that I defende: and yet I know not in what sort or out of what storie these liues of Martyres were redde. I like very well of the decrée of the councell of Colen, for it inhibiteth the reading in the Churche of fabulous, and barbarous stories of the liues of Sainctes, whereby it is like that the booke called Le∣genda aurea is mente. But what is this against godly Homilies, that conteyne the true interpretation of the scriptures, godly exhortation to good life, & sound proofes of true doctrine, which is as far frō iustling the bible out of the church, or into corners, as is preach∣ing. And I muse that you can alleage this for a cause, seing you thinke so slenderly of the reading of the Scriptures, and will haue y^e same giue place to your sermons.

Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 159. Sect. 1.

And if any man (*) 1.57 obiect, that by this meanes also is shut out of the church the forme of ordi∣narie Prayers to be sayde: I saye the case is nothing lyke, for when wee pray, wee can not vse the wordes of the Scripture, as they orderly lie in the text. But for so much as the church pray∣eth for dyuers things necessarie for it, the which are not conteined in one or two places of the scrip∣ture, and that also there are some things which we haue need of, wherof there is no expresse pray∣er in the scripture, it is needfull that there be a forme of prayer drawne forthe out of the Scrip∣ture, which the church may vse when it meeteth, as the occasion of the tyme doth require, which necessitie can not be by no meanes alleaged in the reading of Homelies or Apocrypha. Whervpon appeareth, that it is not so wel ordeyned in the church of Englande, where both Homilies and A∣pocrypha are read, especially when as diuers chapters of the books called Apocrypha are lifted vp so high, that they are sometyme appoynted for extraordinarie lessons vpon feastes dayes, wherein the greatest assemblies be made, and some of the chapters of the canonicall Scripture, (as certain chapters of the Apocalyps) quite lefte out, and not redde at all.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue made an obiection which you can not answere, and against the which all these reasons that you haue before vsed do as much preuayle, as they doe against reading of Homilies: and whatsoeuer you can say for the one, may likewise be said for the other. For when we interprete the Scriptures, when we teache, or exhorte, we can not vse onely the wordes of the scripture, as they lye orderly in the texte, but wee muste amplifye them, displace them, applie them to the matter we speake of, entermin∣gling them with our owne wordes and phrases. For except you will graunt this to be lawfull, as wel in exhorting and teaching, as in publike preaching, you must (as I sayd before) as well condemne Sermons, as Homilies.

The Apocrypha that we reade in the Church, haue bene so vsed of long tyme, as* 1.58 it may appeare in that third councel of Carthage, and 47. Canon, where they be rec∣kened among the Canonicall bookes of the Scripture. They maye as well be read in the Church, as counted portions of the olde and new Testament: and forasmuch as there is nothing in them contrarie to the rest of the Scripture. I sée no inconue∣nience, but much commoditie that may come by the reading of them.

¶Of the name (Priest) giuen to the mini∣sters of the gospell.

Chap. 3. The fyrst Diuision.

Admonition.

We speake not of the name of Prieste, wherwith he defaceth the minister of Christe, (bicause the Priest that translated it, would perhaps fame haue the minister of Christe to be ioyned wyth him) seyng the office of priesthood is ended Christ being the last Priest that euer was. To cai vs therfore Priests as touching our office, is eyther to call backe againe the olde priesthoode of the law, which is to denie Christ to be comen, or else to keepe a memorie of the popishe priesthode of abhomination stil amongst vs. As for the fyrst, it is by (d) 1.59 Chryst abolished, and for the seconde it is of Antichrist, and therfore we haue nothing to do with it. Suche oughte to haue (e) 1.60 no place in our Church, neither are they ministers of Christ, sente to preach his Gospell, but Priests of the Pope to sacrifice for the quick and the dead, that is, to treade vnder their feet the bloud of Christ. Suche ought not to haue place amongst vs, as the scriptures manifestly teache. Besydes that we neuer reade in y^e new Testament, that this word Priest, as touching office, is vsed in y^• good parte.

Answere to the Admonition. Pag. 183. Sect. 2.

The name of Priest neede not to be so odious vnto you, as you* 1.61 would seeme to make it. I suppose it cōmeth of this worde Presbyter, not of Sacerdos, and then the matter is not great.

T. C. Pag. 159. Sect. 2.

Althoughe it will bee harde for you to proue, that this woorde (Prieste) commeth of the Greeke woorde (〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉) yet that is not the matter, but the case standeth in thys, that for so muche as the common and vsuall speach of England is, to note by the word (Priest) not a minister of the Gospell, but a sacrificer, whiche the minister of the Gospell is not, therefore,

we ought not to call the ministers of the Gospell (priestes) and that this is the english speach, it ap∣pereth by all y^e english translations, which translate always (〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉) which were sacrificers (prie∣stes) and do not of the other side (for any that euer I read,) translate 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 a priest. Seing therfore a priest with vs, & in our tong, doth signifie both by y^e Papists iudgemēt in respect of their abhommable Masse, and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respecte of the beastes whyche were offered in the law, a sacrificing office, which the minister of the gospell neyther doth, nor can execute, it is manyfest, that it can not be without great offence so vsed.

Io. Whitgifte.

I am not greatly delightedwith the name, nor so desyrous to maynteyne it, but yet a truth is to be defended: I reade in the olde fathers, that these two names Sa∣cerdos and presbyter be confounded. I see also that the learned, and the best of oure English writers, such I meane as write in these oure dayes, translate this worde presbyter, so: and the verie worde it selfe, as it is vsed in our english tongue, soundeth the worde presbyter. As heretofore vse hath made it to be taken for a sacrificer, so wil vse nowe alter that signification, and make it to be taken for a minister of the Gospell. But it is méere vanitie to contende for the name, when wée agrée of the thing: the name may be vsed and not vsed without any great offence.

Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision.

Answere to the Admonition. Pag. 183. Sect. 3. & Pag. 184. Sect. 1. 2.

The priest or priestes that translated this booke, be not so skornfully to be taunted: I thinke some of them haue ended their lyues in the fyre, and all of them singular both in life, religion, & learning: speake not so contemptuously of so worthy men: vtter not your hautie sto∣macks with so spitefull words towards your superiours & betters, least you proue your selues to be in the number of those, of whom S. Paul speaketh. 2. Tim. 3. vers. 2. 3. 4. 5. and Iudas in his epistle vers. 8. It is true that the priesthod of the old law is abolished but the place of scripture noted in your margent proueth it not. For Hebrues. 5. Paule doth shew why the high priest was ordeyned, and what were his offices: but he speaketh nothing of the abolishing of the priest∣hood. I muse what you mean thus vnnecessarily to paint your mar∣gent, and that with so little iudgement, and lesse discretion. The. 9. to the Hebrues is something to the purpose, but needlesse.

Touching Popish priestes (as you call them) whether they ought to haue anye place in oure churche, or no, I haue spoken before, where I haue also aunswered youre marginall notes concerning that matter.

You far ouershot your self in myne opinion, when you set it down, that you neuer read in the newe testament thys worde priest, touching office to bee vsed in good parte. What saye you to the fourth to the Hebrues? verse. 14. Seeing then that vve haue a greate highe Priest, vvhyche is entred into heauen Iesus Chryst. &c. And verse. 6. For vvee haue not a highe Priest vvhyche can not be touched vvith the feelyng of our infirmities, but. &c. And chapter. 5. verse. 6. Thou arte a Prieste for euer, &c. And Apo∣calyps. 5. 1. Pet. 2▪ But what shoulde I trouble you with a tedious

the whole newe Testament, where this worde Priest, is taken in euill parte touching office. Truly you are farre deceyued, or else my* 1.62 vnderstanding fayleth me. I condemne that office, and institution of sacrificing for the quick and the dead with you, and I knowe it is condemned in the Scriptures manifestly, and namely in the. 9. and. 10. to the Hebrues.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothyng answered.

Matters concerning the solemnization of Ma∣riage.

Chap. 4. The first Diuision.

Admonition.

The ninth. As for matrimonie y^t also hath corruptions too many, it was wont to be counted a sacrament, and therfore they vse yet a sacramentall signe, to whiche they attribute the vertue of wedlock. I meane the wedding ring, which they fowlly abuse and dalli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 withal, in takyng it vp & laying it down: In putting it on▪ they abuse the name of the Trinitie, they make y^e newe maried man according to the Popish forme, to make an idoll of his wyfe, saying, with this ryng I thee* 1.63 wed, with my bodie I thee worship. &c. And bicause in poperie no holie action, may be done with∣out a Masse, they enioyn the maried persons to receiue the communion, (as they do their Bishops and priests when they ar made.) &c. Other pettie things out of the booke we speak not of, as that women, contrarie (m) 1.64 to the rule of the Apostle, come, & are suffered to come bareheaded with bag∣pipes and fidlers before them, to disturbe the congregation, and that they must come in at the great dore of the churche, else all is marred.

Answere to the Admonition Pag. 194. Saect. 1.* 1.65

The fyrst thing you mislyke in matrimonie is the ryng, whiche you call a sacramentall signe, and vntruely saye, that we attribute the vertue of wed∣locke thervnto: I knowe it is not materiall whether the ring be vsed or no, for it is not of the substance of matrimonie: neither yet a sacra∣mentall signe, no more than sitting at Communion is, but only a Ce∣remonie of the which M. Bucer (writing his iudgemēt vpon the first* 1.66 cōmunion booke set out in the tyme of king Edwarde) sayth on this sort: Subijcitur alius ritus, vt ānulum. &c. There is an other rite and ceremonie vsed that the bridegrome should lay vpon the book the ring or any other signe or token of wedlock, be it gold or siluer, which he wil giue to his wife, & from thēce the minister takīg it, doth deliuer it to the bridegrom, & he deliuereth the same to the bride with a prescript forme of words cōteined in the booke: this ceremonie is verie profitable, if the people be made to vnderstand what is therby signified: as that the ring & other things first layd vpon the book▪ & afterwarde by the minister, giuen to the bridegrome to be deliuered to the bride, do signifie that we ought to offer al that we haue to god before we vse* 1.67 them, & to acknowledge that we do receiue them at his hād to be vsed to his glorie. The putting of the ring vpon the fourth finger of the womās left hād, to the which as it is sayd, there cōmeth a sinew of string from the heart, doth signifie that the heart of the wife oughte to be vnited to hir husbande, & the roundnesse of the ring doth signifie, that the wife ought to be ioyned to hir husbande with a perpetuall bande of loue, as the ring it selfe is vvithoute ende. Hitherto M. Bucer.

T. C. Pag. 159. Sect. vlt.

If it be M. Bucers iudgement which is alledged here for the ring, I see that somtimes Homer slepeth. For first of al I haue shewed that it is not lawfull to institute new signes & sacraments, & then it is daungerous to do it, especially in this which confirmeth the false and popish opinion of a sacramente, as is alleaged by the Admonition. And thirdly to make such fond allegories of the lay∣ing downe of the money, of the roundnesse of the ring, and of the mysterie of the fourth finger, is let me speake it with his good leaue) verie ridiculous and farre vnlike himselfe. And fourthly, that he

I doe not speake of the inconuenience that men are constrayn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d with charges to bring theyr chil∣dren oftentymes halfe a score myles for that (whiche if it were needefull) myght be as well done at home in their owne parishes. The thirde is for that in the allegation of the seconde cause of the v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yng of the confirmation, the booke 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ayeth, that by the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of handes, and Prayer, the chyldren maye receyue strengthe and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 agaynste all temp〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ations, where 〈◊〉〈◊〉 there is no promise that by the laying on of handes vpon chyldren, any such gyft that be giuen, & it mayn∣teineth* 1.68 the popish distinction, that the spirit of God is giue at baptisme vnto y^e remission of sinnes, & in confirmation vnto strength, the whyche verye worde (strength) the booke alleageth, and all this M. Doctor con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uteth, by calling of the authors of the Admonition pceuishe and arrogant.

Io. Whitgifte.

If that be a sufficient reason to abolishe it, bycause it hath〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 bene horribly abused, then what shall you reteyne eyther in the churche, or in the common lyfe of man. But* 1.69 I haue before in talking of apparell declared the vanitie of this reason, and yet the confirmation that is nowe vsed was neuer abused by the Papistes, for they had it not, neyther any similitude of it, but onely the name whiche can not contaminate the thyng.

It commes not from the Popes decretall Epistles, except you will say, that these E∣pistles were connted authenticall befor Ieromes tyme: for he maketh mention of this confirmation, and alloweth of it, in his booke aduersus Luciferianos. I denye not* 1.70 (sayeth he) this to be the custome of the churches, that the Bishop at the in〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ocation of the holye spirite, goe to laye his hande vpon those whyche haue bene baptised as farre off in lesser cities, by priestes and deacons.

M. Bucer likewise writing vpon the fourth to the Ephesians testifieth, y^t this con∣firmation* 1.71 is ver〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e auncient in the Churche, & well lyketh & alloweth y^e same. Wher∣fore except you will giue too muche authoritie to the Popes decretall Epistles, you can not say, that the confirming of children after baptisme, had the originall in them.

The first steppe of poperie in thys Confirmation, (as you say) is laying on of handes. &c. and yet you sée by the testimonie of Ierome and Bucer, that laying on of handes hath long before Ieromes tyme bene vsed in confirming of children. Neyther can you say, that it confirmeth the opinion of it, that it is a sacrament, more than imposition of handes doth confirme the opinion of ordeyning ministers that it is also a Sacra∣mente: for I thinke that you will not denie but that imposition of handes may be vsed in ordeyning of ministers.

You saye, it is an vntruthe, that the confirmyng of chyldren by the imposi∣tion of handes came from the Apostles: but you only saye it, you proue it not. Shew the first institution of it since the Apostles, & then you say something, else the words of the booke will beare with them better credite, than yours can do.

To your second point, the authors before named, doe sufficiently answere in the places that I haue before named. The words of Ierome be t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ese. If you demaund in* 1.72 this place, wherfore he that is baptised in the Church doth not receiue the holy Ghost but by the imposition of the hands of the Byshop: seing we all affirme that the holy Ghost is gi∣uen in true baptisme. Learne this obseruation to come from this authoritie, that after the ascention of our Lord, the holy Ghost came downe vpon the Apostles. And in many places we find the same thing to be done, rather for the honour of priesthoode than necessitie of the law For if the holy Ghost shoulde come only at the prayer of the Byshop, those were to be lamented, which in prison, or in castels, or in farre places being baptised by priestes and Deacons die before the Byshop can visite them. The words of M. Bucer be these. The* 1.73 signe of imposition of hands, Byshops only did giue, and that not without reason: for whe∣ther the couenant of the Lord is to be confirmed to those that are baptised, or whether they are to be reconciled that haue greeuously offended, or whether the ministers of the Church are to be ordeyned: all these ministeries do best become those to whome the chief care of the Church is committed.

Your obiection of mens charges in bringing their children to be confirmed, is childish.

It cannot be denied but that by harty and earnest prayers God doth worke these eff〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cts in thos〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 children that be his: and hereof imposition of handes is a signe. The ground of this is that promise wherevpon all our prayers do depend, that is, that we shall obteine whatsoeuer we aske the father in Christes name: neyther can you more iust∣ly cauill in this respect, at the imposition of handes at the confirmation of children, than you can do at the same in the ordeining of ministers.

The Authours of the Admonition séeme to allow of confirmation, but not as it is now vsed, for the which, bycause they shew no reason, it is a confutation most méete for them, to say that they be both arrogant and péeuish.

Of Burialls and matters therevnto apperteyning.

Chap. 6. the. 1. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 160. Sect. vlt.

Least M. Doctor (as his common fashion is when the corruption of any thing is spoken a∣gainst)* 1.74 say, that we condemne buriall, I would haue him vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried, and that it is meete that for that cause some reasonable number of those which be the friends and neighbours about should accompany the corps to the place of bu∣riall: we hold it also lawfull to lament the dead, and if the dignitie of the person so require, we thinke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall whereby that may appeare, but yet so that there be a measure kept both in the weeping, & in the charges, considering that where as immoderate ey∣ther weeping or pompe was neuer, no not in the time of the law allowed, now in the time of the gos∣pell, all that is not lawfull, whiche was permitted in the time of the law. For vnto the people of God vnder the law, weeping was by so much more, permitted vnto them, than vnto vs, by how muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and playne sight of the resurrection as we haue, whiche was the cause also why it was lawful for them to vse more cost in the embaulming of the dead, ther∣by to nourish and to help their hope touching the resurrection, whereof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauioure Christ than they had.

Io. Whitgifte.

Al this is néedelesse: but that you are disposed to stretch out your volume.

Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision.

Admonition.

The eleuenth. They appoint a prescrip kind of serui〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to bury the dead: and that whiche is the duty of euery christian, they tie alo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to the mini〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ter, whereby 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rayer for the dead is maintay∣ned, and partly gathered out of some of the prayers, where they pray that we with this our bro∣ther, and all other departed in the true faythe of thy holy name, may haue our perfect consummati∣on and blisse, both in body and soule. We say nothing of the threefould peale, bycause that it is ra∣ther licensed by iniunction, than commaunded in the booke, nor of their straunge mourning, by chan∣ging their garments, which if it be not hypocraticall, yet it is superstitious and heatcrush, bycause it is vsed only of custome: nor of buriall Sermons, whiche are put in pl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ce of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rentalls whereout spring many abuses, and therefore in the best reformed Churches are remoued. As for the super∣stitions vsed both in countrey and citie, for the place of buriall, which way they must lie, how they mu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t be fecched to Church the Minister meeting them at Church st〈1 line〉〈1 line〉le with surplesse, with a com∣pany of greedy Clearks, that a Crosse white or blacke must be set vpon the dead corps, that breade must be giuen to the poore, and offrings in buriall time vsed, and cakes sent abroade to friends, by∣cause these are rather vsed of custome and superstition than by the authoritie of the booke. Small commaundement will serue for the accomplishing of such things. But greate charge will hardly bring the least good thing to passe, and therefore all is let alone, and the people as blind and as ig∣norant, as euer they were. God be mercifull vnto vs.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 198. Sect. 1.

It is true that we haue a prescript kind of seruice to bury the dead, and that we appointe that office to the minister, and what haue you in the whole scripture, against this? or whoeuer hath found fault with either of these two things (I meane prescript seruice to bury the dead, and the minister to execute that office) but you alone? or when was it euer heretofore repro∣ued by any, but euen by yourselues now of late?

T. C. Pag. 161. Lin. 5.

Nowe for the things which the Admoni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ion fyndeth fault with, and thereof 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ingeth reason, M. Doc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er of his bare creditē, without any reason or sc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ipture, or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thing else, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 them vnto 〈◊〉〈◊〉, and sayth they be good. And this you shall marke to be M. Doctors simple shift through out his 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ooke, that when he hath no coloure of scripture, nor of reason, no name nor title of Doc∣tor, then r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 make 〈◊〉〈◊〉 some thing▪ he v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rieth his affirmation by all the figures he c〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n, as in saying 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that it is so and then in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 whether it be not so, and after in asking whether there 〈◊〉〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉〈◊〉 man will thi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hat it is not so, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s if he woulde make vs beleeue, that he setteth vs diuers 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of mea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es, bycause he bringeth the same in diuers dishes. For besides these reasons, he hathe no reason, either to pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead, or that the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 should be drawen to this charge. Surely if the order be so good and conuenien〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, it hathe met with a very barren 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉trone, whiche can saye nothing for it. And although there be enough sayd by the Admonition, yet bycause this bold and hardy 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉peach is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nough to leade the simpler a∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y, and to make them thinke that M. Doctor hath a good cause, therefore I will also say so〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣thing of these rites of bur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all.

Io. Whitgifte.

What one reason is there vsed in the Admonition? what one word of scripture? what authoriti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of writer? to improue a prescripte kinde of seruice to bury the dead, and the minister to execute that office. If there be any rehearse it: if there be none why do you kéepe your old cu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ome of speaking vntruly? for as much therefore as they only say* 1.75 it withoute proofe, withoute reason, without gr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉unde, the thing being knowen so be good and godly, and pra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tised in the primitiue Church (for we reade in Tertullian, that the dead were wont to be buried by the ministers, and with prayer) and furthermore sée∣ing it is established, and allowed by the Church, what shoulde I laboure by reason or authoritie to confirme that, whiche, cannot by any reason or authoritie be ouerthro∣wen.* 1.76 Wheresore I will only answer such bare assertions, as M. Zuinglius answered* 1.77 (vpon the like occasiō) one Balthasar an Anabaptist. VVhilest you require scripture and reason, you obtrude vnto other that whiche you oughte to performe your selues, for you denie that this ought to be so, shew therefore some expresse testimonie out of the scripture, to confirme your opinion. To this effect spea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth Zuinglius to Balthasar, who (without reason or scripture, alleadged to the contrary) required of Zuinglius the proofe of those thinges whiche without controle〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ent of any (but Heretikes) had continued in the Churche of long time, and then also allowed in the time of the Gospell: Euen so the receiued order established by this Church, carieth with it authoritie and credite sufficient, and néedeth not to be further by reason confirmed, except it be first by rea∣son ouerthrowen, which bycause it is not per〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ourmed by the Admonition, my affir∣mation is sufficient reason, against their deniall.

If this be M. Doctors simple shift throughout his booke, I trust M. Doctor that would〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 haue bin, hath not omitted to note it, where he may finde it, seing his eye sight is so sharpe, that he can imagine himselfe to espie it, where no man else can find it. But let words go.

Chap. 6. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 198. Sect. 2.

You say that thereby prayer for the dead is mainteyned, as may partly be gathered out of some of the prayers, where we pray that we with this our brother, and other departed in the true faith of thy holy name▪ &c. You know full well what out doctrine* 1.78 is concerning prayer for the dead, and you ought not thus boldly to vtter a manifest vntruth, for in so doing you do but be wray your sini∣ster affection How proue you that a prescripte forme of seruice for burying the dead, and the minister only to bury them, doth mainteine prayer for the dead▪ when you haue shewed your reason, you shall hea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e my answer.

In saying that these words gathered out of some of the prayers,* 1.79 that we with this our brother. &c. import prayer for the dead, you do but quarrell:* 1.80 when we say that we with Abraham, Isaac and Iacob may reygne in thy kingdome, do we pray for Abraham, Isaac, and Iacob, or 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉a∣ther wish ourselues to be where they are?

In the like manner when we say, that we with this our brother, and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy name, may haue our perfect consummation, & blisse both in body and soule, we pray not for our brother, and other that be de∣parted in the true faith, but we pray for ourselues, that we may haue our perfect consummation and blisse, as we are sure those shall haue which die in the true fayth.

Now weigh this reason, there is a prescript forme of burying the dead, and it is madea portion of the ministers office, ther〈1 line〉〈1 line〉fore you will not subscribe to the communion booke.

T. C. Pag. 161. Sect. 1.

And first o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 all as this almost is a generall fault in them all, that they mainteine in the myndes of the ignorant the opinion of praying for the dead: so is this also another generall faulte, that these ceremonies are taken vp without any example eyther of the churches vnder the law, or of the pu∣rest churches vnder the Gospell, that is of the churches in the Apostles tymes. For when the Scripture describeth the ceremonies or rites of buriall amongst the people of God so diligently, that it maketh mention of the smallest things, there is no doubt but the holy Ghost doth thereby shew vs a patterne, wherevnto we should also frame our burialls. And therefore for so muche as neyther the Church vnder the law nor vnder the Gospell, when it was in the greatest puritie, did euer vse any prescript forme of seruice in the buriall of their dead, it could not be but daungerous, to take vp any such custome, and in the time of the law it was not only not vsed, but vtterly for for bid∣den:* 1.81 for when the law did forbid that the priest should not be at the buriall, whiche ought to saye or conceiue the prayers there, it is cleare that the Iewes might n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t haue any suche prescripte forme, and yet they had most neede of it, for the causes of obscure knowledge, and weaker fayth before al∣leadged. Agayne by this meanes a new charge is layd vpon the minister, and a taking him away from his necessary duties of feeding & gouerning the flocke, which being so greate as a maruellous dilig〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nce will scarsely ouercome, ought not to be made greater by this, being a thing so vnnecessa∣ry. The Admonition dothe not say that the prayers whiche are sayd are for the dead, but that they mainteyne an opinion of prayer for the dead in the heartes of the simple, and that they declare ma∣manifestly enough, when they say that it may be partly gathered. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

Your first reason to proue that there ought to be no prescripte forme of seruice to bury the* 1.82 dead, and that the minister ought n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t to execute that office, is this: It mainteyneth in the mindes of the ignorant, an opinion of praying for the dead, therefore there ought to be no prescripte forme of seruice to bury the dead, neyther must the minister execute that office. Un∣doubtedly this is a very ignorant argument, if a man denie your antecedent, howe will you proue it? do you thinke the people (whome you do so greatly in other places extoll) to be so rude, that they vnderstand not the English tongue? Are they not able to discerne what it is to pray for the dead? Surely I do not thinke any to be so sim∣ple, that hearing the manner and forme of burying our dead, can or will imagine that we pray for the dead. And I verily beléeue that the ignorantest person in a whole countrey, will deride the babishnesse of the argument. The prescripte forme that is now vsed and the minister pronouncing the same, wi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ather perswade them to the contrary, for where as in times past, the minister vsed to say masse and dirige for the soules of the dead, and sundry times moue standers by to pray for the dead, at the time of buriall: now doth he reade most wholesome scriptures, declaring the my∣serie of the life of man, the shortnesse of his dayes, the happinesse of those that dye in the Lorde, and the certeintie of the resurrection. And who can hereof gather any prayer for the dead?

Your second reason is this, these ceremonies (that is a prescript forme of burying the dead. &c) are taken vp without any example eyther of the Churches vnder the law, or of the chur∣ches in the Apostles time. &c. therefore there may be no prescripte forme of seruice for burying the dead, and the minister may not make it a péece of his office to bury them. I denie this argument: for it is negatiue from authoritie, bycause you haue neyther warrant to say that there was no such order in the Apostles time, neither if you had any such warrant, doth it follow that it may not be so in our time, séeing that in ce∣remonies and diuers other orders and externall thinges, we are not bounde to the forme and manner of the Apostolicall Church. And yet if I should say that in the A∣postles time, the minister vsed to bury the dead, and ground my reason vpō the place of S. Augustine before alleadged, quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia. &c. I know not what you would be able by any reason to say to the contrary.

Another argument you conclude thus: It was forbidden in the lawe that the prieste should be at the buriall of the dead, therefore the Iewes had no suche prescript forme. Be* 1.83 it so: but will you driue vs to conforme our selues to the Iewes ceremonies? do you thinke that touching the dead, or being at burialls will now make the minister vn∣cleane? I vnderstand not to what end you should alleadge any such proofes, vnlesse you would haue vs to retourne againe to Iudaisme. This kind of reasoning from the ceremoniall law is not only of no force, but also very dangerous, as though Christi∣ans were bound to behaue themselues according to that law. Surely it should séeme that you could rather consent to the bringing in of Iudaisme, than to the Christian orders now appointed in the Church. There might be and so there was a prescripte forme of burying the dead among the Iewes, although the Priest was absent: ther∣fore, if this kinde of reasoning from the examples of the Iewes were of any force, yet cannot this your argument proue that there ought to be no prescripte forme to bury the dead.

In the fourth place you reason thus: A new charge may not belayd vpon the minister, nor* 1.84 he maye not be taken from his necessary duties of feeding and gouerning his flocke. &c. but by burying the dead, a new charge is layd vpon him, and he is taken from his necessa∣ry duties. &c. therefore the minister may not bury the dead. Your Minor is false, for it is no new charge, laide vpon him: is it not his duty to reade the scriptures, to gyue thanks, to pray and to exhort in the publike congregation? doth he not féede, when he so doth? nay when is there a more apt time of féeding? will you giue him time to be* 1.85 absent from his flocke vpon his owne businesse, as before you haue done, and shal he haue no time to bury their dead? Surely I cannot conceiue how this function of bu∣rying the dead, should one iote hinder the minister f〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ō any one part of his dutie. And I thinke these reasons of yours too weake to allure any man into your opinion, or to plucke downe any thing that is already builded. If you séeke for alteration, you must vse pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ound and inuincible proofes, for no wise man will be moued to a change, without vrgent and especiall cause. I passe ouer this and such like matters the more lightly, bycause I take the lightnesse of your arguments to be such, as of themselues they be a sufficient discredite to your cause, and adde (with such a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be learned, and not led by affection) a greater strength and confirmation both to the doctrine, and also to the gouernment of this Church of England.

Chap. 6. the. 4. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Page. 199. Sect. 4.

The threefolde peale, mourning apparell, buriall sermons, the place of buriall, which way they must lye, how they must be fetched to the Church, a crosse white or blacke set vpon the dead corps, bread giuen to the poore, offerings in buriall time vsed, cakes sent abroade to friends, you confesse not to be conteined within the booke, and so you ease me of some laboure. But yet of mourning apparell, and auriall* 1.86 sermons, giue me leaue to speake a little. It is no good reason to say,

that bycause mourning apparell is only vsed of custome, therefore it is superstitious and heathenishe: many thinges be vsed of custome wh〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ch be neyther superstitious nor heathenish, as to receiue the com∣munion before dinner, to celebrate the Lords day on the Sunday, not on the Saterday, to preach in pulpits, and such like. Mourning* 1.87 apparell is of greate antiquitie (as you knowe) and I thinke it is no matter of religion, but of ciuilitie and order. If any man put religion in it, then no doubt it is superstitious.

T. C. Pag. 161. Sect. 2.

For the mourning apparell, the Admonition (*) 1.88 sayth not simply it is euill, bycause it is done of custome, but proueth that it is hypocriticall oftentimes, for that it proceedeth not from any sad∣nesse of mind, whiche it dothe pretende, but worne only of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ustome there being vnder a mourning gowne, oftentimes a merry hart. And considering that where there is sorrow indeede for the dead, there it is very hard for a man to keepe a measure, that he do not lament too much: we ought not to vse these meanes whereby we might be further prouoked to sorrow, and so go a great way be∣yond the measure, which the Apostle appointeth in mourning, no more than it was well done of the Iewes in the Gospell to prouoke weeping and sorrow for their dead, by some dolefull noyse, or* 1.89 sound of instrument, or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister, to go to hir brothers graue, thereby to set the pri〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t of hir sorrow deeper in hir mind. Seing therefore if there be no sorrow it is hypocriticall to pretend it, and i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 there be▪ it is very dangerous to prouoke it, or to carry the notes of remembrance of it, it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparell were much better layd away than kept. And here M. Doctor th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eapes alittle kindnesse of the authours of the Admonition, and* 1.90 saith that they know it is very anncient, whome before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of an∣tiquitie. Indeede it is very auncient, but M. Doctor is afrayd to shew the a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ciencie of it, for Cy∣prian, and Augustine, inueigh vnhemently against it, condemning it as vnlawfull and vndecent.

Io. Whitgifte.

The words of the Admonitiō be these. Nor of their strange mourning by changing their garments (which if it be not hypocriticall) yet is it superstitious and heathenish, bycause it is vsed only of custome. Let the Reader now iudge, whether the Admonition dothe conclude this apparell to be heathenish and superstitious, only bycause it is vsed of custome or no. Truly in my simple iudgement their words be playner, than that they can be excused.

Your reason of Hypocrisie is no more sufficient, to condemne mourning apparell, than it is to condemne any other ciuill and decent o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉der. By the like reason I might improue your wearing of a turky gowne and a hat, bycause that kind of apparel be∣ing a token of such persons, as mislike the gowne and the square cap, and pretende precisenesse aboue the rest, is notwithstanding commonly worne of such as in other places than in London, both weare and like the other, and be precise neither in lyfe nor doctrine. And what is it that I 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉annot disproue, if this be a sufficient argument to say some mē do abuse it, or some men do hypocritically vse it, Ergo it is not to be vsed.

Your other reason, that it prouoketh more seruice for the dead than is conuenient, if it were true that it so did (as you are not able to proue that it is) yet muste it receiue the same answer, with the former argumente, being of the same nature: vnlesse you will say, that we must not come néere vnto our 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉riendes graue, or place where he is buried, we must not weare any of his apparell, come in or neare the place where he dyed, beholde any thing that may put vs in mynde of hym, with an infinite suche like thinges, bycause all these moue affections in a kynde harte, and prouoke it to wéeping. But i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 is the affection of the mynde that is to be moderated and brideled, and not the lawfull vse of decent and ciuill orders to be condemnad▪ For if we

admit such causes and excuses, I sée not how any orders, eyther ecclesiasticall or cy∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ill, especially in indifferent things, can be mainteined. If any man weare such ap∣parell* 1.91 of purpose to prouoke sorrow, he is not to be excused: if for order and ciuilitie, he is to be commended. And surely I sée not why the wearing of mourning appa∣rell should not be profitable to put a man in minde of his owne mortalitie, seeing it carieth a remembrance of death with it, and I thinke it rather woorketh this effecte in the wearer, than the other that you speake of.

The antiquitie of this apparell appeareth in this, that (by your owne confession) it was in Cyprians time, as it appeareth in that 4. ser. demortalitate, where he dothe not so much speake against the mourning apparell, as he dothe againste mourning immoderatly: and surely if the thing had bin so greatly to be misliked, it shoulde not still haue had continuance in the Church as it had, for Augustine likewise speaketh of it serm. 2. de consolat. mort. to the same effect that Cyprian doth. But there is no suche immoderate mourning for the dead in these dayes, the contrary rather appeareth.

Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 200. Sect. 1. 2.

But wherein haue funerall sermons offended you? or with what* 1.92 face of brasse dare you liken them to trentalls? what similitude is there betwixt a godly sermon and the wicked Masse? In what one* 1.93 poynt are they like? or how dare you condemne such sermons, being then most necessary and most profitable? what? is there a more fitte time to entreate of the mortalitie of man, and shortnesse of his days, of the vanitie of this worlde, of the vncertaintie of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉iches, of the re∣surrection, of the iudgemente to come, of eternall life, and of euerla∣sting deathe, and of infinite other most necessary poyntes, than that wherin we haue a present example before our eyes? when is ther a more meete time to beate downe trentalls, sacrificing for the dead, prayers for the dead, Purga〈1 line〉〈1 line〉orie, and suche like, than that wherein they were accustomed to be most vsed? Su〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ely there is as much dif∣ference* 1.94 betwixt our funerall sermons, and the papisticall masses and trentalls, as there is betwixt cold and hote, blacke and white, light and darknesse, truth, and lies, Heauen and Hell. But belike there is some other priuate cause, that maketh you to reiecte funerall ser∣mons.

You saye that in the best refourmed churches they are remoued: I* 1.95 thinke you saye not truly (and I am sure that M. Caluine dothe very well like and allow of them, as appeareth in the forme of common prayers vsed of the English Church in Geneua, & by him allowed.) But if it be so, I tell you plainly, for my parte I like not that refor∣mation, excepte there be weightier reasons than eyther you vse, or I can perceiue. I am sure that in auncient churches of long time they haue bin vsed, and the same you may see in the moste aunciente and best learned fathers.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 1.

Now touching the funerall sermons, M. Doctor taketh on, and triumpheth maruellously, as though he had already gotten y^e victory, but he that girdeth his harnesse, should not boast as he that putteth it of. Ther is more matter, than peraduenture M. Doctor is aware of, and that which is set downe he answereth not, as that it nourisheth an opinion that y^e dead are the better for it, which doth appeare in that ther are none more desirous of funeral sermōs than y^e Papists, which although they cannot abide the doctrine whiche is preached, yet they will haue suche sermons, and those which will very seldome, or not at all, be at other sermons, will not commonly misse one of these.

Furthermore for so much as the minister is driuē oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpō a sud∣deyne, the worde of God thereby is negligently handled, especially of those whose giftes are not so gre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t, as that they can prouide in so sma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉l time, and by this negligent handling of the worde of God, it is brought into contempte.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely M. Doctor may well triumphe, that so good a cause hath no stronger aduer∣saries.* 1.96 Your argumentes are too too slender, and in déede very friuolous: The first is this, that they nourishe an opinion that the dead are better for them, of the which argumente, bicause you are ashamed your selfe, you father it vpon the Admonition, wherin there is not one worde spoken of any such reason. But why doth a funerall sermon nourish that opiniō? forsooth, bicause the Papistes be most desirous of them. First, it is very strange to say that sermons nourishe an opinion y^t the dead are the better for them, when it is well knowen that both he that preacheth, thinketh otherwise, & the ende of preaching is to roote out of mens heartes such persuasions, which kinde of sermōs be most mete at that time to be vsed, when such especial occasiōs be offered. Secōdly, it is as strange to thinke that Papistes should for any such cause desire them, who are persuaded the doctrine that is taught to be flat heresie, and the preacher to be none of the church: and surely it is a strange fansie that can imagine a Papiste to thinke that sermon to helpe the dead, which condemneth prayer for the dead, Purgatorie, Masses, Diriges, Me∣rites, and such like Popish trashe, wherein the Papistes place all their hope of helpe for the dead. Wherfore if Papistes be so desirous of these sermons (which I can not beleue) and in many of them it is indéede vntrue, it is rather to auoyde the suspition of Papistrie, than to procure any helpe to the dead.

The seconde argument you will haue this, The minister is driuen by this meanes to* 1.97 preache of a suddeyne, and thereby the worde of God is negligently handled. &c. and is this so good a reason? Do you remember what you answered before, for the defense of prea∣ching twyse in a daye? you sayde it was a very simple Sermon that had not some good∣nesse* 1.98 and edyfying, and very slender meate, whiche is not better beyng gyuen euerye daye, than the best and deyntyest meate once onelye in a month. &c. And howe can hée bée taken so vn∣prouided, that is able to preach so often? or why should the woorde of God be more negligently handled by a minister preaching a funerall sermon vpon suddeyne war∣ning, than by the same minister preaching two sermons euery daye? your memory waxeth feble towardes the ende of your booke, else would you not haue so reasoned a∣gainst your selfe. But why may not he that preacheth a funerall sermon haue suffi∣cient warning? or if he haue not, why may he not refuse to preache it? There is no order or lawe that doth of necessitie binde him vnto it.

Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

Moreouer, considering that these funerall sermons are at the request of ryche men, and those which are in authoritie, and are very seldome at the buriall of the poore, there is brought into the church (contrary to the worde of God) an acceptation of persones, which ought not to bee. For al∣though the minister may giue to one more honour than to an other, according as the calling or de∣gree requireth, yet in his ministerie, and that which perteyueth vnto his office, he ought to shew him selfe indifferent, and therefore preache as well at the death of the poore, as of the ryche, and bicause he cannot well do both, it is moste conuenient to leaue both.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is your thirde reason, but it toucheth only the persone, and not the cause, for it reproueth the minister for not preaching as well at the buriall of the poore as of the ryche: which if it be a faulte it is the fault of the man, not of the thing: and therfore

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no good reason to condemne funerall sermons. But you saye, he can not do both, and ther∣fore it is moste conuenient that he leaue both: shall he at no tyme do good, bicause he can not do it at all tymes? bicause he is not able to preache euery daye, shall he not therefore preache once in the wéeke? or if he be not able to preache once in the wéeke, shall hée not therefore (being able) preache once in a fortnight? what kinde of reasoning call you this? And yet if your reason for preaching twyse a day before mentioned, be good and allowable, I knowe not why y^e minister may not be able to preach at the burial, as well of the poore as of the ryche, and yet there may be sometymes more occasion, to preache at the buriall of the ryche, than at the buriall of the poore: neither is this that acceptatiō of persons, which is in scripture prohibited: for there be degrées of persons and seuerall dignities. Howbeit, funeral sermons be rather in the respect of the liuing than of the dead.

Chap. 6. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

If so be that M. Doctor will saye, that it is good that notable and famous men, should haue their commendation, to the ende that both the goodnes of God towardes them, might be the better knowen, and others the sooner drawen to followe their example, I graunt it is so, and the scripture doth both approue it, and sheweth what meane is best to do that by. For so we reade that Ieremy* 1.99 the Prophete commēded that godly and zealous Prince Iosias in writing verses of his death. He could haue as easely preached, but this he thought the best waye. So did also Dauid wryte verses at the death of Saule, and Ionathan, and Abner, in which he commendeth their giftes and graces which the Lord had bestowed vpon them. There were in deede of auncient tyme funerall orations, as appeareth in Gregorie Nazianzene, but they sauoured of the manner of Athens, where he was brought by: where also this custome of funerall orations was vsed, as may be seene in the seconde booke of Thucidides story by an oration of Pericles. And although this custome was not in Nazian∣zens time so corrupte as afterwardes: yet the departing from the examples of the purer churches, gaue occasion of further corruption which ensued. And to say the truthe, it was better vsed amongst the Athenians, than amongst the Christians. For there it was merely ciuill, and the oration at the death of some notable personage, made not by a minister, but by an orator appointed therfore: which I thinke may well be done.

Io. Whitgifte.

Ieremie lamented Iosias death, and writte verses vpon it, Dauid also writte verses at the death of Saule, there were funerall orations in Nazianzens time, and it is lawefull to haue orations at the death of noble personages. &c. therefore there may be no funerall sermons: this argu∣ment hath neither necessary nor probable conclusion, for they may both bée vsed, and be so commonly at the buriall of notable personages. M. Foxe reporting the vse of the* 1.100 Primitiue churche in this matter, sayth thus. In funeralles priestes then flocked not to∣gether, selling Trentalles, and Diriges, for sweping of purgatorie, but onely a funerall con∣cion was vsed, with Psalmes of praises and songs of their worthy deedes: and alleluia soun∣ding* 1.101 on highe, which did shake the golden seelings of the temple, as witnesseth Nazianzene, Ambrose, and Ierome. &c.

Chap. 6. the. 8. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

And if M. Doctor will saye that there might be sermons although they be not mentioned neither in the olde Testament nor in the newe, I haue answered before, that seeing the holy Ghost doth de∣scribe so diligently the least circumstances of buriall, he would not haue omitted that being the grea∣test. And let it be obserued, that this deuise of mans brayne, bringeth foorth the same fruite that o∣ther do, that is, dryueth quite awaye a necessary dutie of the minister, which is to comforte with the worde of God, the parties which be greeued at the death of their friendes, that considering the sore is particular, he applye vnto it a particular playster, which is very seldome or neuer doone, and yet a necessary dutie, as of a good Christian, so especially of the minister, whiche can best doe it, and to whome it moste apperteyneth.

Io. Whitgifte.

No, I saye not only that, which you do not sufficiently improue, but this also, that if there were none such then, yet may there be nowe, being a matter perteyning to edi∣fying, and to the preaching of the Gospell of Christe. And you can no more proue by this argument, that there ought to be no funerall sermons, than you can proue that there ought to be no women at the receiuing of the communion, or no baptisme mini∣nistred in churches, with diuers such like things, wherof there is no expresse mention that they were in the Apostles time.

An other of your weighty argumēts is this. The minister ought to cōfort with the woorde of God, the parties that be greeued at y^e death of their friendes, therefore he may not preache a funerall sermon. I must stil deny your argument, being to too simple. For may he not do both if nede require? may he not before his sermon, in his sermon, & after his ser∣mon* 1.102 comforte the parties greeued? That is one good vse of funerall sermōs, especial∣ly when ther are a number so gréeued, whom he can not so well particularly cōforte, bicause of the number, as he may ioyntly, in a godlye & fruitfull sermon: and I haue not heard or red, but that God worketh as effectually in the heartes of the hearers, by publike sermons, as he doth by priuate exhortations, & that euen in matters of salua∣tion, & therfore much more in matters of lesser importance. But as I saide before, this preaching at the buriall, doth nothing hinder this priuate exhortation, if he be so dispo∣sed: and therfore of all other your argumentes, this is one of the worste.

Chap. 6. the. 9. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

And where as M. Doctor asketh, when there is a better time to speake of death and of morta∣litie, than at 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urial, surely if it had bene so sit, the Prophets and Apostles would neuer haue lost that oportunitie, or let passe that occasion of aduauncing and making effectuall their preaching. What if it be answered (*) 1.103 that for as much as our life, is a continuall meditation of death, it is not sal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to vse this custome, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or that it tieth our cogitation to so shorte a tyme, as the tune of buriall is, whiche ought to be extended to the whole course of our life. But I answere that it may be well done with∣out any such funerall sermons, when the minister taketh occasion of the death of any which is lately departed, to speake of the vanitie of the life of man.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Prophets and Apostles did not preache at burials, therefore it is not a moste conue∣nient time to speake of death and of mortalitie. The antecedent is doubtful, and not pro∣ued, and though it were true, the argument followeth not, for it is your vsuall kinde of reasoning negatiuely of authoritie. But why haue you not made here any mention of the other thinges conteined in my Answere to the Admonition, whiche bée necessary pointes to be entreated of, and most fit for that tune: as purgatory, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rentals. &c?

Againe you reason thus: our life is a continuall meditation of death, and by funerall ser∣mons* 1.104 it is tied vnto a short tyme as the tune of buriall is, therefore funerall sermons be not lawefull: the putting of vs in minde of our mortalitie by funerall sermens, is no hin∣draunce to our continuall meditation of it, but an helpe rather and a meanes to stirre it vp & to reuiue it. We ought at all times to meditate of the death of Christ, but must we therfore refuse at some times to receiue the sacrament of the supper, whereby we are put in minde therof? or doth the receiuing of this sacrament once in a monthe, re∣straine our meditation of Christs death to that time only? doth a sermon preached of the death of Christ, at some times appointed, binde our cogitation to that time onlye? surely then are we very vnprofitable hearers. Wherfore although our life be a con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉i∣nuall meditation of death, yet can it not be but most profitable for vs, to be put in mynde therof at some one time, more than at other some tyme, & especially at that time when we sée with our eyes that which we heare with our eares. And what can this reason more preuayle against sermons at burials, than it may doe against sermons at the administration of the Sacramentes, or any other appointed or sette tyme?

The like or the same kynde of argument you vsed before against the feast of Easter,* 1.105 and other such like dayes, where I haue in like manner answered the same. I thinke verily that by this time you are ashamed of it.

At the length you saye that it may be well done, without any suche funerall sermons, &c. and therefore there may be no funerall sermons. And I saye it may as well and bet∣ter be done in and by funerall sermons, and therefore funerall sermons may be, &c.

Chap. 6. the. 10. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. tovvards the ende.

Whether M. Doctor liketh the reformation or no; so it is in the church where M. Calu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ne w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉astor, and ha〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e for these many yeares. And although the Englyshe churche in Geneua had that in the booke of common prayer, yet (as I haue heard of those which were there present) it was no〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 so vsed. And if it had bene, yet thereby it is not proued that M. Caluine allowed of it. For with things wherein there was no great and manifest disorder, M. Caluine did beare that whiche hee liked 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t of. And there being no Papistes in all the citie, and all beyng well instructed, there was no such〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉unger in a funerall sermon there, as is here amongst vs, where there be many Papistes and mo ignorant. I w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll saye nothing of the great abuse of those whiche hauing otherwyse to lyue on of the churche, take nobles for euery such sermon, and sometyme a mournyng gowne, which cau∣seth th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to open their mouthes wyde, and to say that the marchandise of sermons is much beare〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 than of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉, for that they might haue for a groa〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e or sixe pence, and the sermon they can not haue vnder a rou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉der summe.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue tolde you before howe much M. Cal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ine him selfe misliketh this ambitious* 1.106 morositie, which woulde driue all churches to the example of one. It firste brought Rome to that extreame pryde & arrogācie, wherewith it is now so greatly puffed vp.

I must beleue that booke that is printed published and vncontrolled, before I be∣leue your vncertaine reportes, although in such matters I do not depende vpon the churche of Geneua, whiche will not I am sure condemne our vse in these sermons, though it vse them not it selfe.

I heare as yet no probable reason why funeral sermons should not be where ther〈1 line〉〈1 line〉* 1.107 are Papistes, and suche as be ignorante. I am fully perswaded that they be in those places moste necessary, where there are moste Papistes, bicause they minister espe∣ciall occasion to confute these errors, wherein the Papistes be moste blynded, & from the which they are with most difficultie drawen. But we must permit vnto you your paradoxes, and your fansies, else all is marred.

You saye you wyll not speake of the abuse of those that take nobles for such Sermons, ha∣uing otherwyse to lyue, neyther will I defende them if they either exacte it, or require it, or take it with offence. Yet if it be giuen vnto them by the wyll of the dead, or for the bet〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er solemnizing of the burials of suche as be noble or worshipfull, I sée no cause why it should be vnlaweful for them, to take that which by such meanes is giuen vn∣to them: otherwyse I thinke it not méete for preachers to make a common or vsuall gayne of it.

Chap. 6. the. 11. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 163. Lin. 5.

That must be remembred (which I had almoste forgotten) howe vntruely and slaundero〈1 line〉〈1 line〉slye M. doctor sayth that y^e authors of the Admonitiō do compare the sermon with a trentall or a masse. For when I saye in steade of the masse we haue the holy Communion: do (*) 1.108 I compare or liken the communion to y^e m〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sse? and yet this is M. doctors charitable collectiō, which gathereth things which no man letteth 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all.

Io. Whitgifte.

If with that mynde and sense you saye, the holy Communion is in steade of the Masse,

that they saye, buriall Sermons are put in the place of trentals, you saye wickedly and vn∣godly: for they speake it in the euill parte, to the deprauing of those sermons: therfore I slaunder them not, but they slaunderously speake of the preaching of y^e word of God. And for my vpright dealing with them in this poynt, I refuse not the iudgement, of any man that hath iudgement.

Chap. 6. the. 12. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag 201. Sect. 1.

Touching the place of buriall, I muse what you meane to mislike* 1.109 of it, seeing there hath always bene an appointed place for the same, euen from Abraham to this daye.

T. C. Page 163. Lin. 10.

Touching the place of buriall, I haue spoken before. And although it be not to be misliked, that there should be a common place to bury in yet the places which M. doctor poynteth vs vnto, proue the cleane contrary. For by the story o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Abrahams place of buriall, it appeareth that y^e manner was that euery one was buried in his owne seuerall grounde, as may appeare also by that, that the Euā∣geliste* 1.110 sai〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h, that there was a fielde bought to bury the straungers in, which had no place of their owne, which was also vsed sometimes in the churches vnder the Gospell, as appeareth by the story of Theodoret, which I haue before recited, and in the latter ende of a funerall oration, whiche Gre∣gorie Naz〈1 line〉〈1 line〉anzene made of the death of his brother Cesarius. And so by this reason M. Doctor would haue euery one buried in his owne possession.

Io. Whitgifte.

There haue bene placēs alwayes appointed to bury the dead in, dedicated to that vse onely, and therefore there may be so nowe, neither haue you one word in any ap∣proued wryter to the contrary. The conuenience of the place, & the pointing of it out, is in the power of those that haue authoritie, and be gouernours of the cōmon wealth and churche, and with that place that by them is thought moste conuenient we ought to be contented. Neither do I heare any reason to proue that there ought to be any al∣teration of the places already appointed.

Whatsoeuer you haue spoken to the contrary in the other place, I haue there* 1.111 answered.

¶ Other particular matters for the which they refuse to subscribe to the booke.

Chap. 7. The. 1. Diuision.

Admonition.

The 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ift. As for the halfe Communi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n, which is yet appointed like to the commemoration* 1.112 of the Masse, we saye little of it, sauing that wee may note howe neare the translatour bounde hym selfe to the massebooke, that woulde not omitte it.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 183 Sect. 1.

I knowe not what you meane by the halfe communion, I finde no such worde in the Communion booke: If you meane the communion in one kinde, you speake vntruely and slaunderously of the booke, and of this whole church: if you meane the scriptures and prayers appoin∣ted to be read when there is no Communion, then do you vniustly li∣ken them to the commemoration of the Masse, being most fruitful scriptures, and godly prayers.

Admonition.

The eight. The publike baptisme, that also is full of childysh and superstitious toyes. First in their prayer they saye, that God by the baptisme of his sonne Iesus Christ, did sanctifie the floud Iordane, and all other waters, to the mysticall washing awaye of sinne, attributing that to the signe which is (i 1.113) proper to the worke of God in the bloud of Christe, as though vertue were in water to washe awaye synnes.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 189. Sect. 6. 7. 8.

By the first you saye, that wee attribute to the signe that whiche is proper to the worke of God in the bloud of Christe, as though vertue were in water to washe awaye synne.

You knowe very well that we teache farre otherwyse, and that it is a certayne and true doctrine of all suche as professe the Gospell, that the outward signes of the Sacrament, doe not conteine in them* 1.114 grace, neither yet that the grace of God is of necessitie tied vnto them, but onely that they be seales of Gods promyses, notes of Christiani∣tie, testimonies and effectuall signes of the grace of God, and of our redemption in Christe Iesus, by the whiche the spirite of God dothe inuisiblye worke in vs, not onely the increase of faythe, but confirma∣tion also.

You vnderstande likewyse, that this difference there is betwixt these externall elementes, being selected to be sacramentall signes,* 1.115 (that is, betwixt water in baptisme, & common water: bread & wine in the Eucharist, & vsual bread & wine) that these now be sacraments sanctified to an other vse, to a spiritual vse, to the norishing of fayth, and feeding of the soule, to be instruments of the holy Ghost, by the which as by instruments we be fed to eternal life. Furthermore, you can not be ignorāt, that whosoeuer cōtemneth these external signes, and refuseth them, can not be a member of Christe, neither yet saued.

Last of all you haue learned, that there is suche a similitude be∣twixt* 1.116 the signes, and the thing signified, that they are not onely in Scripture vsually called by the names of those things where of they be Sacramentes (as bread the body of Christe, and water regenera∣tion) but also that the contumelie or contempte done to the one, doth redounde to the other, that is, the contempte of the signes, is the con∣tempt of the things signified, and therefore S. Paule saith. 1. Cor. 11. He that eateth and drinketh vnvvorthily, eateth and drinketh his ovvne damnation, Non dijudicans corpus domini. And Christ, Iohn. 3. Excepte a man be borne of vvater and the spirite, hee can not enter into the kingdome of heauen.

These things being cōsidered, it is no superstitious toy, but a godly and true saying, that Christe hathe sanctified all waters (vsed in Baptysyng) to the mysticall washyng awaye of synne: not ascry∣bing, or attributyng washyng awaye of synne to the externall ele∣mente, anye otherwyse, than instrumentallye, or in anye other respecte than for the similitude that Sacramentes haue with the thynges whereof they bee Sacramentes: for wee knowe that wycked men maye receyue these externall signes, and yet remaine the members of Sathan.

It is certainly true, that the mysticall washing away of sinne is proper to the worke God in the bloud of Christ, and for that purpose you might haue alledged much more playner and directer places of Scripture, than moste of these whiche you haue noted in your margent: but I thinke your meaning is not therefore to condemne the outwarde signes and Sa∣craments, as the heretikes called Messalians, did.

Admonition.

They pray that all men may be saued.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 202. Sect. 3.

You say we pray that all men may be saued, we do so indeede, and what can* 1.117 you alledge why we should not so do? S. Paule. 1. Tim. 2. sayth, I ex∣hort therefore, that first of all supplications, prayers, intercessions, and gi∣uing of thankes be made for all men. &c. And adding the reason he sayth, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour, vvho vvill that all men shall be saued, and come vnto the knovvledge of the truth. The Apostle doth here will vs in plaine words to pray for all men, euen that they may be saued, for there vnto tende the wordes following.

Io. Whitgifte.

To this is nothing answered.

Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision.

Admonition.

The thirtéenth. In all their order of Seruice (p 1.118) there is no edification according to the rule of the Apostle, but confusion. They tosse the Psalmes in most places like tennese balles, the people some standing, some walking, some talking, some reading, some praying by themselues, attend not to the Minister. He againe posteth it ouer as fast as he can gallop: for eyther he hath two places to serue, or else there are some (*) 1.119 games to be played in the after noone, as lying for the whetstone, heathnish dauncing for the ring, a Beare or a Bull to be bayted or else Iacke an apes to ride on horsebacke, or an Enterlude to be played, and if no place else can bee gotten, it must be done in the Church. &c. Now the people sit, now they stande vp: when the olde Testament is read, or the les∣sons, they make no reuerence, but when the Gospell commeth, then they (*) 1.120 all stande vp. For why, they thinke that to be of greatest authoritie, and are ignorant that the Scriptures came from one spirite. When Iesus is named, then off goeth the cap, and downe goeth the knees, with suche a scraping on the grounde, that they cannot heare a good while after, so that the worde is hindered, but when any other names of God are mētioned, they make no curtesie at all, as though the names of God were not equall, or as though all reuerence ought to be giuen to the sillables. We speake not of ringing, when Mattens is done, and (*) 1.121 other abuses incident: bicause we shall be an∣swered, that by the booke they are not mainteyned, onely we desire to haue a booke to reforme it.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 204. Sect. 1. &. 205. Sect. 1. 2.

This is a slaunderous vntruth. And the. 1. Cor. 14. abused to* 1.122 confirme it. Whatsoeuer S. Paule requireth in that place, is vsed in that booke of Seruice: for first the whole Seruice is in a tongue knowne (as S. Paule there requyreth) that the people may vnder∣stand & say Amen. Then are the Scriptures read▪ the Sacraments ministered according to Christes owne institution, those that bee Godly disposed persons know what a manifest vntruth this is that you here vtter.

But mad men, women and children, must haue their wordes. &c.

If by tossing of Psalmes, you meane the singing of them, alternatìm, then do you disallow that which is both commendable, and of great anti∣quitie, as it appeareth in an Epistle that Basilius Magnus, did wryte to the Ministers in Neocaesaria, where he sheweth the selfe same or∣der of singing Psalmes to be then vsed in the Church, that we vse at this day.

If by tossing of Psalmes like tennise balles, you meane the ouer hastie rea∣ding or singing of them, it is indeede to be misliked: but it is no part of the booke, and therefore no cause why you shoulde absteyne from subscribing to it.

T. C Pag. 163. Sect. 1.

To passe by the prophane prouerbe here vsed, which matcheth mad men, and women, and childr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 togither▪ most vnseemely for a D. of diuinit〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, especially handling diuine matters: for the singing of Psalmes by course, and side after side, although it be very auncient, yet it is not commendable, and so much the more to be suspected, for that the diuell hath gone about, to get it so great autho∣ritie, partly by deriuing it from Ignatius tyme, and partly in making the worlde beleeue, that this* 1.123 came from heauen, and that the Angels were heard to 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ng after this sort, which as it is a mere fable, so is it confuted by Hystoriographers, whereof some ascribe the beginning of this to Dama∣sus, some other vnto Flauianus, and Dioo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rus. From whence soeuer it came, it cannot be good,(*) 1.124 considering that when it is graunted that all the people may prayse God (as it is in singing of Psalmes) there this ought not to be restrayned vnto a fewe, and where it is lawfull both with heart and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to sing the whole Psalme, there i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉is not inecte that they should sing but the one half with their heart and voyce, and the other with their heart onely. For where they may both with heart and voyce sing, there the heart is not enough. Therefore besides that incommoditie whiche cōmeth this way, in that being tossed after this sort, mē cannot vnderstand what is song, these other two incōuemences come of this forme of singing. & therfore is banished in all reformed churches.

Io. Whitgifte.

To the slaunderous vntruth of the Admonition, or to my answere there vnto, you say nothing, but passe it ouer.

S. Paule vsed a prophane prouerbe in very serious and diuine matters, when he sayde: Cretenses semper mendaces. &c. ad. Ti. 1. and therefore it well beséemeth a Doctor of* 1.125 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉itie, aptly and fitly applying it. But why doe you not find fault with the Authors of the Admonition who vse a more prophane prouerbe, (that is, tossing of tennise balles) in as serious a matter?

You confesse that singing of Psalmes by course, and side after side is verie 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uncient, and therfore I shal not néede to labour in prouing that: the diuersitie of opinions touching the originall of it, cannot preiudice the thing: and yet if Ignatius were the Author of it, as Socrates lib. 6. cap. 8. sayth, it is not the lesse to be estéemed, but I will examine your* 1.126 reasons. When it is graunted (you say) that all the people may praise God, it ought not to be re∣strayned to a fewe: this is soone answered, for all the people may sing if they can and wil: and those that sing not in voyce may sing in heart, for the Psalmes are soong in a tong that is knowne: and some there be that can neither read nor sing, such of necessitie must hearken to those that sing, and ioyne with them in heart. You adde, that where they may sing the whole Psalme both with voyce and heart, it is not meete they should sing with heart onely, for where they may both with heart and voyce sing, there the heart is not enoughe. Where learne you this in scripture? will you set downe generall and absolute rules, and not tell vs vpon what authoritie they be grounded? This is tootoo Popelike, whose wordes will stande for reason, whom none must aske why doth he so, or sayth so. The prayer of the heart alone when a man may also pray with voyce, is of great* 1.127 force, and very effectuall, as the example of Anna in the first of Samuell doth declare. I grai〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t that in the publike cōgregation God is to be called vpon both in heart & voice, but yet if a man at some times either bicause of the order appointed by the Church, or vpon some other occasion do holde his peace, and desire that in heart onely, which other sing▪ or pray in voyce, no doubt he prayeth effectually. Saint Paule. 1. Cor. 14. speaking of praying and thankesgiuing in the publike Congregation sayeth: Else* 1.128 when thou blessest with the spirite, howe shall hee that occupieth the rowme of the vn∣learned

say Amen at thy giuing of thankes, seing he knoweth not what thou sayest? Of the which wordes it may euidently be gathered, that one sayd the prayers, and the rest of the people ioyned with him in heart, and therefore sayde Amen, when he had ended his prayers. And so doth M. Caluin interpret this place. You see then how farre your rule is wide from the rule of S. Paule. For euen in the publike congregation, he al∣loweth one to pray in heart & voyce, and all the rest to pray in heart only. Wherfore, where they may both with heart & voyce sing, there to sing with the heart is inough. But Lorde how you forget your selfe: before you founde fault with the booke b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉se* 1.129 the people repeated their prayers after the minister, and that bicause the Minister is the onely mouth of the people to the Lorde. &c. nowe (as though you were not the same m〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 but played some other part) you finde fault with the order of Seruice bicause they 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 not their owne mouthes to the Lord: then to pray with heart was sufficient: now it is not enough: whence this cōtrarietie should spring I cannot imagin, except I should ascribe it to a frowarde and preposterous desire that you haue to deface this Church:* 1.130 but bicause I haue touched this more largely in the proper place, I will content my selfe with the onely noting of it in this place.

If you will say it was then the maner of the Church, that one should pronounce the prayers, the rest harkening vnto him, and therefore could not without the brea∣king of order speake: the same I say vnto you: that this hath beene of long tyme the generall order of the Church to s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g bysides, and therefore may not without disorder be broken, so long as the Church doth thinke it conuenient to be kept, as a lawfull and conuenient order.

The Psalmes béeing song, may as well be vnderstanded as being sayde, and bet∣ter too. If it be otherwise, the fault is not in singing, but in the maner of s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ging, which is the fault of the persons, not of the thing. And therefore that is but a verie weake reason, and it is à non causa.

Chap. 7. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 205. Sect. 3. 4.

VValking, talking, reading, priuate praying of the people in tyme of common prayers, seruing of two cures, games played in the after noone on the Sabboth day, as ly∣ing for the whetstone, &c. be faults worthie of punishment, where they be vsed, but they are not within the contents of the booke, and they are here recyted out of place, and to no purpose.

This is verie malicious and vndiscret dealing, to burthen the com∣mon* 1.131 order with such faultes, which by the malice of men are growne in vse, and are of all good men misliked. So you might haue bur∣thened Saint Paule, and other Preachers, with the faults of the Churches of Corinth, and Galatians, & the residue of the Apostles, with the superstitions of the Iewes conuerted in the primitiue Church, and all good rulers with such faults as corruption of tyme breedeth.

Standing or sitting at this time or that tyme is indifferent, and therefore may both be well vsed, and abused also.

Kneeling at the name of Iesus is of the like nature, ringing when Mattens is* 1.132 done, (as you terme it) curious singing, Organs. &c. All these be without the booke, and therefore without discretion alledged as a reason why you will not subscribe to the booke.

T. C. Pag. 163. past the midst.

Unto two verie good reasons which the Admonition vseth, to shew the inconuenience of ma∣king curte〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e, and standing at the name of Iesus, and at the Gospell rather than at other names of

God, and the rest of the Scripture, whereof the one is, that it is agaynst decencie and good or∣der. which is broken by scraping of the feete, and the other that it may breed a da〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gerous opinion of the inequalitie either of the sonne of God, with the other persons, or of the Gospels with other Scriptures. M. Doctor sayth that it is an indifferent thing, and neyther taketh away their rea∣sons, nor setteth downe any of his owne: this is a slender defense. And it is no malicious dealing to note those faults which are so generall and so open, and yet notwithstanding vncorrected or vn∣reformed by those, by whome M. Doctor woulde make vs beleeue that the Church is best gouer∣ned. But I pray you tell me, why do you condemne the seruing of two cures, that allow the hauing of two benefices? If it be no fault to haue two benefices, howe is it one, to haue two cures? For the Curate is better able to read his seruice in two places, than the Pastor to discharge his office in two Churches.

Io. Whitgifte.

The first reason of hindring the worde by the noyse made with scraping the sée〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 vpon the ground, as it is vsed by them in derision, so is it of it selfe ridiculeus, and not worthie to be answered: besides it is vntrue, for it hindereth no more the worde bée∣ing read, than hawking and spitting bindereth the same being preached. But Lorde how sparing are you of time, that will not spare so much as may serue a man to bow his knée in. Well it is but a pretence, to helpe out with a merie argument: for I dare say neyther they nor you are so vndiscrete, as to vse it in good sadnesse.

Their second reason hash some more grauitie in it, though not much more weight, and your addition, that it may breede a daungerous opinion of the inequalitie eyther of the Sanne of God with the other persons, or of the Gospell with other Scriptures, is but suppo∣sed, and a man may suppose the Moone to be made of gréene chéese. That gesture at the name of Iesus hath hitherto continued in the Church many hundred yeares, and yet neuer any was heard tell of, that fell into eyther of these opinions by the meanes thereof.

One reason that moued Christians in the beginning the rather to bow at the* 1.133 name of Iesus, than at any other name of God, was bicause this name was most ha∣ted and most contemned of the wicked Iewes, and other persecutors of such as profes∣sed the name of Iesus: for the other names of God they had in reuerence, but this they could not abide: wherefore the Christians to signifie their fayth in Iesus, and theyr obedience vnto him, and to confute by open gesture the wicked opinion of the Iewes and other infidels, vsed to doe bodily reuerence, at all tymes when they heard the name of Iesus, but especially when the Gospell was read, which conteyned that glad tydings of saluation which is procured vnto man by Christ Iesus, wherevpon also he is called Iesus, that is, a Sauior. Neyther can it be agaynst christianitie to shewe bodily reuerence, when he is named by whom not onely all the spirituall enimies of mankinde are subdued, but also the faythfull be made partakers of the kingdome of heauen. Wherefore as I binde no man of necessitie to this reuerence at the name of Iesus, so do I not iudge any man that (hauing knowledge) vseth the same: for I will not holster and defende superstitious ignorance.

It must néedes be malicious dealing, to charge the common order and booke of pub∣like prayer, with particular faults of priuate men and places. If you knowe where these abuses be, and will complaine of them either to the Archbishop or Bishop, I dare say they will reforme them.

There is better reason why one Pastor may haue two benefices, than one Curate serue in two cures, for ministring of the Sacraments and reading publike prayers day∣ly, doth require more bodily attendance than the preaching of the worde. A man may better in one day preach at two Churches, than he can at them both minister the Sa∣craments, and celebrate publike prayers. That Pastor that hath two benefices, and two good Curates at them both, may with much more facilitie do his dutie, both to∣wardes his Churches particularly, and the whole Church generally.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Of subscribing to the commu∣nion booke.
• * 1.2

  Scilicet, the Communion booke.
• * 1.3

  A note by the waye.
• (*) 1.4

  Vnequal com parisons For in these poyntes they were not buylders vp of Christes church.
• * 1.5

  Gedeons E∣phod.
• * 1.6

  The prayse of the makers of the booke.
• * 1.7

  1. Cor. 1〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.8

  How they sea led the booke with their bloud.
• * 1.9

  M. Ridleys testimonie of the booke of cōmon prayer
• * 1.10

  M. Foxe.
• * 1.11

  Aduantage gi uen to the pa∣pistes by the Admonitours
• * 1.12

  The apponēt must proue, by rules of Logike.
• * 1.13

  Psal. 120.
• * 1.14

  The order of prayers in the Communion booke agrea∣ble to y^e scrip∣ture.
• * 1.15

  Only Zuin∣fildians misli∣ked reading of scriptures.
• * 1.16

  Pag. 154. Sect. 3.
• * 1.17

  Determina∣tion of the Churche in things indif∣ferent.
• * 1.18

  〈◊〉〈◊〉 iudge∣ment.
• * 1.19

  The worde (repugnant) expounded.
• (a) 1.20

  Mat. 26. 19 Mar. 16. 15
• (y) 1.21

  2. Ti. 3. 6. 17.
• * 1.22

  2. Pet. 1. 20 Rom. 1. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 18 &c.
• * 1.23

  Homilies.
• * 1.24

  Our homilies cannot be ac∣cused of any errour.
• * 1.25

  Some Ho∣milies better than some sermons.
• * 1.26

  Reading of Scriptures a meanes to iudge of ser∣mons.
• * 1.27

  Math. 7.
• * 1.28

  Act. 17.
• * 1.29

  Iohn. epist. 4. Cal. 1.
• * 1.30

  Numb. 10.
• * 1.31

  19. Psal.
• * 1.32

  1. Prou.
• * 1.33

  Tract. 2. Cap. 6. Diu. 1. &. 2.
• * 1.34

  T. C. semeth to be contrary to himselfe.
• * 1.35

  Pag. 173. Sect. vlt.
• * 1.36

  13. Act.
• * 1.37

  15. Act.
• (*) 1.38

  Vntruth as will appeare.
• * 1.39

  Sermons are of the same nature with Homilies.
• * 1.40

  The true in∣terpretation of the scrip∣ture is not to be accounted as of man.
• * 1.41

  Ionathan the Cald〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y para∣phrast before christes time.
• * 1.42

  The epistle of Ciement reade in the churche.
• * 1.43

  Euseb. lib. 4▪ Cap. 2〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.44

  Dionysius li∣ued about the yeare. 147.
• * 1.45

  Cent. 2. cap. 10.
• * 1.46

  Concil. vas. La. 4.
• * 1.47

  Homilies of fathers read in the church.
• * 1.48

  Bucers opi∣nion of ho〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 lies in the churche.
• * 1.49

  Ridleys iudgement of homilies in the churche.
• * 1.50

  M. Foxe. to. 2. Pag. 1940.
• * 1.51

  59. Can. conc. Lao∣di. rom. 1. concil.
• * 1.52

  Concil. va∣sense. 1. to. 4. tom. cō∣cil. 6. c con∣cil. Colon. parte. 2.
• * 1.53

  Nothing ought to be read in the church vnder the name of Scriptures, but the cano∣nicall.
• * 1.54

  Con. Carth. 3. can. 47.
• * 1.55

  Homilies ap∣poynted to be redde.
• * 1.56

  Nothing ought to be redde not grounded of the scriptures
• (*) 1.57

  You haue obiected that which you can∣not answere.
• * 1.58

  Apocrypha redde in timè∣paste in the churche.
• (d) 1.59

  Heb. 5. 1. 6. Heb. 9. 11.
• (e) 1.60

  Eze. 44. 10 Ierem. 23. Heb. 5. 4.
• * 1.61

  The name of priste.
• * 1.62

  Priest conce〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ning office, ne∣uer in euil part.
• * 1.63

  Abuses acci∣dentall.
• (m) 1.64

  1. Cor. II. 5
• * 1.65

  The ring in matrimonie.
• * 1.66

  Bucers opi∣nion of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ring in ma∣riage.
• * 1.67

  The fourth fynger.
• * 1.68

  Lom. lib. 4 diuis. 7.
• * 1.69

  Tract. 7. ca. 5. t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. diuiss. &c.
• * 1.70

  Ierom. aduers. Luciferian〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s.
• * 1.71

  Bucer.
• * 1.72

  Hiero aduers. Lucifer. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉om. 2
• * 1.73

  Bucer. in. 4. Ephes.
• * 1.74

  Of Buriall〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.75

  The dead b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d by the minister and with pra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er in the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Church.
• * 1.76

  Tertul. de Anima.
• * 1.77

  An order re∣ceyued in the Church nee∣deth no proof, vntill by rea∣son it be o∣uerthrowen. Zuinglius ad▪ Balt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉a. resp.
• * 1.78

  Prayer for the dead not, mainteyned.
• * 1.79

  Pag. 199. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 1. 2. 3.
• * 1.80

  E〈1 line〉〈1 line〉position of a prayer at Buriall.
• * 1.81

  Leuit. 21.
• * 1.82

  The prescript forme of ser∣uice maintey∣neth not pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y∣er for the dea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 but 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• * 1.83

  The replyer had rather conforme him selfe to the Iewes than 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o this church
• * 1.84

  The duetie of ministers not hindred by burying the dead.
• * 1.85

  Pa. 49. Se. vlt
• * 1.86

  Of mourning 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pparell.
• * 1.87

  Mourning apparell aun∣cient.
• (*) 1.88

  Vntruth, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 their word〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be playne.
• * 1.89

  1. Thes. 4. Math. 9. Iohn. 11.
• * 1.90

  Cyp. 4. ser∣mone de mortalitate Augus. li. 2. de consolat. mortuorum
• * 1.91

  There is both a lawfull and an vnl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉w full vse of mour〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ing ap∣parell.
• * 1.92

  Funerall sermons.
• * 1.93

  Sermons most nece〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sary at 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.94

  Sermons wickedly compared to trentalls.
• * 1.95

  Funerall ser∣mons allowed of M. Cal∣uine.
• * 1.96

  Funerall ser∣mons nourish not an opinion that the dead are the better for them.
• * 1.97

  T. C. forget∣teth him selfe.
• * 1.98

  Page. 123. Sect. 1.
• * 1.99

  2. Chro. 35. 2. sam. 1. and. 3.
• * 1.100

  The order of the Primitiue churche in fu∣nerals.
• * 1.101

  M. Foxe par. 1 Pag. 146.
• * 1.102

  Funerall ser∣mons serue to comfor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e those that are gree∣ued.
• (*) 1.103

  It were very 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ondly answere▪
• * 1.104

  An absurd ar∣gum〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t against funerall ser∣mons.
• * 1.105

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 120. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉2
• * 1.106

  Tract. 9. cap. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Diui. 13.
• * 1.107

  Funer〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll ser∣mons do most good where there are most Papists.
• (*) 1.108

  Yea su〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ely if you 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉peake to disc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉edite it.
• * 1.109

  The place of Buriall.
• * 1.110

  Math. 27.
• * 1.111

  Tract. 5. cap. 2 Diuis. 7.
• * 1.112

  Halfe comm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣nion.
• i 1.113

  1. Iohn. 1. 7. Acts. 20. 28 Rom. 3. 24.
• * 1.114

  Outward sa∣cramentes do not giue grace
• * 1.115

  Sacramental signes.
• * 1.116

  Pag. 190. Sect. 1. 2.
• * 1.117

  Prayer that all men may be saued 〈◊〉〈◊〉 good.
• p 1.118

  1. Co. 14. 16
• (*) 1.119

  Games of Sodome.
• (*) 1.120

  Standing at the Gospell came from Anastatius the Pope in An. 404.
• (*) 1.121

  Accidentall abuses.
• * 1.122

  A slaunder of the Commu∣nion booke.
• * 1.123

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ocrat. 6▪ 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 8. cap. Platin. cap. Damas. Theod. 2. lib. 24. cap.
• (*) 1.124

  This is slat con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ie to that you affirme. pag. 109. Sect. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.125

  Tit. 1.
• * 1.126

  Socr. li. 6. cap. 8
• * 1.127

  Prayer by heart onely, effectuall.
• * 1.128

  1. Cor. 14.
• * 1.129

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.130

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.131

  Undiscrete dealing with the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 comon prayer.
• * 1.132

  Kneeling at the name of Iesus.
• * 1.133

  Why Christi∣ans bowed at the name of Iesus.